The Lib Dems will likely do better anyway, since the people that in 2019 voted Tory because they were too scared of Corbyn, will likely vote Lib Dem being quite keen on the idea of Starmer. Starmer is popular with Lib Dem voters.
Davey is by far the best, no baggage apart from the Coalition. Which most people don't care about anymore.
Seems Panelbase have cornered the market in Scotch polling.
....and its irrelevant because there isn't going to be a poll that the sainted Nicola doesn't really want .. Agitate for it but have it.. naaah...
Well, no one cares what you think, but I look forward to your overlords carrying one with that same line.
'Curtice said: “Never before have the foundations of public support for the Union looked so weak. Unsurprisingly, for many nationalists, the past three months have exemplified how Scotland could govern itself better as an independent, small country. More importantly, it may have persuaded some former unionists of the merits of that claim, too.”
There is increasing gloom among senior unionist politicians in Conservative and Labour ranks in Scotland that independence is inevitable.'
It might well be, but I hope they do not give up. It's still a marathon not a sprint and they might be flagging but at least force the frontrunner to push a bit harder.
The Lib Dems will likely do better anyway, since the people that in 2019 voted Tory because they were too scared of Corbyn, will likely vote Lib Dem being quite keen on the idea of Starmer. Starmer is popular with Lib Dem voters.
Davey is by far the best, no baggage apart from the Coalition. Which most people don't care about anymore.
Oh they do. That people bring it up as his baggage shows they do.
The tragedy for the Lib Dems is that neither Davey nor Moran are the right fit for today.
The best hope is for Moran to soften her madder streak and obvious private education and model herself of an the NZ pm.
Davey is a total dead loss.
What other options do the Lib Dem’s actually have?
Wilson or Farron would be better.
Darrin carries baggage that can make him look foolish to outsiders.
Davey carries the most baggage. Mr coalition.
I don't know your political persuasion Jonathan but you raise a key point - how people look on the coalition. I was a Labour activist during the coalition years so of course I was largely against it. But as a student of politics I know that all governments do good and bad (Labour towards the end had been mainly bad) and there were definitely some positives from the coalition. Clegg failed on an epic scale on three grounds - his personal decision to drop the tuition fees pledge whilst still campaigning on it, his inability to drive a yellow wedge between him and the Tories (the blues managed it just fine the other way round...) and the inability to claim credit for the things they did.
In literally the last few days Davey has gone into battle against Gove stealing pupil premium. That is a good sign. The LibDems can draw positives from the coalition by positively claiming credit for all the good they did - pupil premium, triple lock pensions, green energy, gay marriage - and pointing out that not only was all the bad the Tories but look how bad they got when they won a majority. You don't win by trashing your own record in office. As for tuition fees - which is the singular issue that many people think of as the Coalition - that is simple to handle. Clegg did it. Didn't tell us. Didn't give us a choice. He's a lobbyist for Facebook's right to promote hate now. Go blame him.
SIR Ed l carries the coalition’s baggage in his name.
Do you think the Lib Dems will find him a bit 'Dave-y' for their taste?
How is Huawei going to be banned from the UK? They provide the majority of our FTTC infrastructure, is the Government proposing to replace nearly all the street cabinets with an alternative supplier?
I doubt it, I suspect they mean new investment from Huawei will be banned while existing infrastructure would be 'grandfathered' in.
The tragedy for the Lib Dems is that neither Davey nor Moran are the right fit for today.
The best hope is for Moran to soften her madder streak and obvious private education and model herself of an the NZ pm.
Davey is a total dead loss.
What other options do the Lib Dem’s actually have?
Wilson or Farron would be better.
Farron was poor. His evangelical Christianity was a major problem as he couldn't see past his resurgent faith (which I share to some extent) that what he thinks isn't what everyone thinks. I struggle to think of something more illiberal than ramming something as personal as your own faith down other people's throats.
Farron may well have been poor, bit is still better positioned than Davey to make a fresh start as a third party.
If the strategy is for LDs to become the old one nation Tory party and attract Rudd and co, then Davey is your man.
Whed "red" Ed Milliband unveiled "One Nation Labour" I was delighted. One Nation politics is the politics of consensus - trying to accomodate those at the top making money without forgetting those at the bottom struggling to survive. Post war both main parties got it - MacMillan campaigning on how many hundreds of thousands of council houses his Tory government were building etc.
So yes, I do want Davey to be One Nation. And to attract more people like Gymah and Allen and Umunna and Berger. Bring in sane people with ideas from both parties, ditch the ideological baggage and do what works. Tory voters are people too. Any party that wants to for a government has to win the support of currently Tory voters. It isn't some kind of negative mark to say so...
The Lib Dems will likely do better anyway, since the people that in 2019 voted Tory because they were too scared of Corbyn, will likely vote Lib Dem being quite keen on the idea of Starmer. Starmer is popular with Lib Dem voters.
Davey is by far the best, no baggage apart from the Coalition. Which most people don't care about anymore.
Oh they do. That people bring it up as his baggage shows they do.
I don't think they do, people bring it up who won't vote Lib Dem anyway.
A lot of the voters he needs to win, quite liked the coalition.
The Gang of Three have a shared conviction that they are uniquely gifted to guide the destiny of Britain, a conceit that was amplified by their victory in the Brexit referendum and then the 2019 election. “They basically think they are God’s chosen,” remarks one former cabinet minister. This certainty in their own rightness has not been disturbed by the multiple blunders they have presided over during the coronavirus crisis. Because they can’t be at fault, someone else must be culpable and a scapegoat has already been selected. Blaming the inadequacies of civil servants is not only politically convenient, it is also mentally comfortable because it fits with their pre-existing prejudices about Whitehall.
“Groupthink” turns out to be something they deplore in others, but hugely admire in those who are part of their group and think the same way as they do. The Gang of Three are no keener to have senior officials who will challenge them than they are to have people in the cabinet who will argue with them.
The tragedy for the Lib Dems is that neither Davey nor Moran are the right fit for today.
The best hope is for Moran to soften her madder streak and obvious private education and model herself of an the NZ pm.
Davey is a total dead loss.
What other options do the Lib Dem’s actually have?
Wilson or Farron would be better.
Farron was poor. His evangelical Christianity was a major problem as he couldn't see past his resurgent faith (which I share to some extent) that what he thinks isn't what everyone thinks. I struggle to think of something more illiberal than ramming something as personal as your own faith down other people's throats.
Farron may well have been poor, bit is still better positioned than Davey to make a fresh start as a third party.
If the strategy is for LDs to become the old one nation Tory party and attract Rudd and co, then Davey is your man.
Whed "red" Ed Milliband unveiled "One Nation Labour" I was delighted. One Nation politics is the politics of consensus - trying to accomodate those at the top making money without forgetting those at the bottom struggling to survive. Post war both main parties got it - MacMillan campaigning on how many hundreds of thousands of council houses his Tory government were building etc.
So yes, I do want Davey to be One Nation. And to attract more people like Gymah and Allen and Umunna and Berger. Bring in sane people with ideas from both parties, ditch the ideological baggage and do what works. Tory voters are people too. Any party that wants to for a government has to win the support of currently Tory voters. It isn't some kind of negative mark to say so...
It’s a strategy. Go full unapologetically pro coalition. Become the old Tory party. Get a few big hitters like Rudd, Clarke and Gauke to join. A risk. But an option.
The Lib Dems will likely do better anyway, since the people that in 2019 voted Tory because they were too scared of Corbyn, will likely vote Lib Dem being quite keen on the idea of Starmer. Starmer is popular with Lib Dem voters.
Davey is by far the best, no baggage apart from the Coalition. Which most people don't care about anymore.
Oh they do. That people bring it up as his baggage shows they do.
I don't think they do, people bring it up who won't vote Lib Dem anyway.
A lot of the voters he needs to win, quite liked the coalition.
Without repelling those who hated it, which seems to include most LDs. I was a fan of the coalition but i can easily see him constantly bogged down in attacks from both sides about it.
The Lib Dems will likely do better anyway, since the people that in 2019 voted Tory because they were too scared of Corbyn, will likely vote Lib Dem being quite keen on the idea of Starmer. Starmer is popular with Lib Dem voters.
Davey is by far the best, no baggage apart from the Coalition. Which most people don't care about anymore.
Oh they do. That people bring it up as his baggage shows they do.
I don't think they do, people bring it up who won't vote Lib Dem anyway.
A lot of the voters he needs to win, quite liked the coalition.
Without repelling those who hated it, which seems to include most LDs. I was a fan of the coalition but i can easily see him constantly bogged down in attacks from both sides about it.
Worse than Layla "I slapped my boyfriend" Moran? The Daily Mail will love that.
How is Huawei going to be banned from the UK? They provide the majority of our FTTC infrastructure, is the Government proposing to replace nearly all the street cabinets with an alternative supplier?
I doubt it, I suspect they mean new investment from Huawei will be banned while existing infrastructure would be 'grandfathered' in.
The tragedy for the Lib Dems is that neither Davey nor Moran are the right fit for today.
The best hope is for Moran to soften her madder streak and obvious private education and model herself of an the NZ pm.
Davey is a total dead loss.
What other options do the Lib Dem’s actually have?
Wilson or Farron would be better.
Farron was poor. His evangelical Christianity was a major problem as he couldn't see past his resurgent faith (which I share to some extent) that what he thinks isn't what everyone thinks. I struggle to think of something more illiberal than ramming something as personal as your own faith down other people's throats.
Knowing Tim from university years I would take exception to the word resurgent - I really don't think his faith has ever changed.
This thread only goes to underline again what a total cosmic disaster Jo Swinsons leadership was. I feel sorry for her personally, but good grief - how to get it wrong!
The tragedy for the Lib Dems is that neither Davey nor Moran are the right fit for today.
The best hope is for Moran to soften her madder streak and obvious private education and model herself of an the NZ pm.
Davey is a total dead loss.
What other options do the Lib Dem’s actually have?
Wilson or Farron would be better.
Farron was poor. His evangelical Christianity was a major problem as he couldn't see past his resurgent faith (which I share to some extent) that what he thinks isn't what everyone thinks. I struggle to think of something more illiberal than ramming something as personal as your own faith down other people's throats.
Farron may well have been poor, bit is still better positioned than Davey to make a fresh start as a third party.
If the strategy is for LDs to become the old one nation Tory party and attract Rudd and co, then Davey is your man.
Whed "red" Ed Milliband unveiled "One Nation Labour" I was delighted. One Nation politics is the politics of consensus - trying to accomodate those at the top making money without forgetting those at the bottom struggling to survive. Post war both main parties got it - MacMillan campaigning on how many hundreds of thousands of council houses his Tory government were building etc.
So yes, I do want Davey to be One Nation. And to attract more people like Gymah and Allen and Umunna and Berger. Bring in sane people with ideas from both parties, ditch the ideological baggage and do what works. Tory voters are people too. Any party that wants to for a government has to win the support of currently Tory voters. It isn't some kind of negative mark to say so...
It’s a strategy. Go full unapologetically pro coalition. Become the old Tory party. Get a few big hitters like Rudd, Clarke and Gauke to join. A risk. But an option.
We're a third party. Soft left but extending into the soft right. With Labour and Tory moving quite significantly along their own left right axes it feels impossible to triangulate a position against them even if it was sensible to do so.
Aren't most voters a coalition? This government has a thumping majority precisely because punters went blue for the first time ever. Within the space of 25 years we have seen all kinds of unlikely seats flip between various colours whether it be Labour winning unlikely southern places then the Tories unlikely northern ones. Some have been red yellow and blue in less than a decade. People are far more open to ideas and far less wedded to old habits or loyalties than they were.
The Lib Dems will likely do better anyway, since the people that in 2019 voted Tory because they were too scared of Corbyn, will likely vote Lib Dem being quite keen on the idea of Starmer. Starmer is popular with Lib Dem voters.
Davey is by far the best, no baggage apart from the Coalition. Which most people don't care about anymore.
Oh they do. That people bring it up as his baggage shows they do.
I don't think they do, people bring it up who won't vote Lib Dem anyway.
A lot of the voters he needs to win, quite liked the coalition.
Without repelling those who hated it, which seems to include most LDs. I was a fan of the coalition but i can easily see him constantly bogged down in attacks from both sides about it.
Worse than Layla "I slapped my boyfriend" Moran? The Daily Mail will love that.
But attacks will be about different things from each side - any LD will be attacked by both sides as a runner letting in the hated Lab/tory - whereas both labour and the tories will use the coalition.
Labour will say hes a tory who cannot be trusted, and the Tories will probably undermine him as two faced saying that he seemed content working with them for years but look at him now snuggling up to the reds.
I dont know how effective those attacks would be, but I don't think the LD membership has the stones to find out, and they are still wanting a clean break from that era to avoid it.
Yes I read that. Would I like £1,500 to spend in the hospitality / independent retail sector? Absolutely. Would I spend £1,500 in them without the Rishi bonus? Absolutely not.
Quintessentially is not a concierge service for billionaires.
Indeed, millionaires can get membership too.
That's next week planned out then. Get the lottery numbers up to the tune of ten million quid and join Quintessentially. Or not win and apply for a job rewriting their site's front page into some sort of English.
The world is reopening. We’re excited to help you re-emerge from the past few months, supporting you in getting back to doing what you love. Our business is built on connectivity, and we are here for you and your family. Whether you plan to stay local and want to dine at your favourite restaurants or are yearning for a faraway escape—or closeby adventure—we’ll help you connect to everything that matters to you the most.
Education: Ensure they stay on top academically by enlisting the help of a tutor, and enriched with a bespoke care package of arts and crafts.
Health & Wellbeing: Many restrictions may have been lifted, but health is of no less importance.
Obviously, that last non sequitur should be no fewer importance. That's what happens when chap in charge went to Eton. That and being appointed by his chums to run things.
Seems Panelbase have cornered the market in Scotch polling.
Yes looking bad for SNP, as we know we get told on here regularly how badly they are handling things. Those numbers are worrying for some.
They might be worrying if there was going to be an Independence poll.. but there isn't,, suck up Malcy. lets see where we are after Alex has had his say on the SNP govt....(note the SMALL g)
The tragedy for the Lib Dems is that neither Davey nor Moran are the right fit for today.
The best hope is for Moran to soften her madder streak and obvious private education and model herself of an the NZ pm.
Davey is a total dead loss.
What other options do the Lib Dem’s actually have?
Wilson or Farron would be better.
Farron was poor. His evangelical Christianity was a major problem as he couldn't see past his resurgent faith (which I share to some extent) that what he thinks isn't what everyone thinks. I struggle to think of something more illiberal than ramming something as personal as your own faith down other people's throats.
Farron may well have been poor, bit is still better positioned than Davey to make a fresh start as a third party.
If the strategy is for LDs to become the old one nation Tory party and attract Rudd and co, then Davey is your man.
Whed "red" Ed Milliband unveiled "One Nation Labour" I was delighted. One Nation politics is the politics of consensus - trying to accomodate those at the top making money without forgetting those at the bottom struggling to survive. Post war both main parties got it - MacMillan campaigning on how many hundreds of thousands of council houses his Tory government were building etc.
So yes, I do want Davey to be One Nation. And to attract more people like Gymah and Allen and Umunna and Berger. Bring in sane people with ideas from both parties, ditch the ideological baggage and do what works. Tory voters are people too. Any party that wants to for a government has to win the support of currently Tory voters. It isn't some kind of negative mark to say so...
It’s a strategy. Go full unapologetically pro coalition. Become the old Tory party. Get a few big hitters like Rudd, Clarke and Gauke to join. A risk. But an option.
We're a third party. Soft left but extending into the soft right. With Labour and Tory moving quite significantly along their own left right axes it feels impossible to triangulate a position against them even if it was sensible to do so.
Aren't most voters a coalition? This government has a thumping majority precisely because punters went blue for the first time ever. Within the space of 25 years we have seen all kinds of unlikely seats flip between various colours whether it be Labour winning unlikely southern places then the Tories unlikely northern ones. Some have been red yellow and blue in less than a decade. People are far more open to ideas and far less wedded to old habits or loyalties than they were.
I blame the LDs for unlocking Pandora’s box. They’ve done it twice. Once by giving the Tories their shot at power and offering little restraint. And then most recently by giving Boris his December election. They just can’t help themselves. I think it makes them feel important, which is real what they crave.
Yes I read that. Would I like £1,500 to spend in the hospitality / independent retail sector? Absolutely. Would I spend £1,500 in them without the Rishi bonus? Absolutely not.
Why not just sub the affected businesses directly with a grant. Or is it better to find some fatcat voucher management organisation to cream off 25% of taxpayers money?
This thread only goes to underline again what a total cosmic disaster Jo Swinsons leadership was. I feel sorry for her personally, but good grief - how to get it wrong!
I was really surprised on the doorsteps at the last general, the degree to which she riled up voters. This was a seat with a LibDem MP (albeit a defector) and hopes of being close. But the vehemence with which people too against her was an obvious indicator they stood no chance. (I think some people made a bit on Totnes when I pointed out it looked like free money.)
Yes I read that. Would I like £1,500 to spend in the hospitality / independent retail sector? Absolutely. Would I spend £1,500 in them without the Rishi bonus? Absolutely not.
Why not just sub the affected businesses directly with a grant. Or is it better to find some fatcat voucher management organisation to cream off 25% of taxpayers money?
It might be to give everyone a feel good factor by way of an additional return on the money. Which would not be a stupid idea.
The tragedy for the Lib Dems is that neither Davey nor Moran are the right fit for today.
The best hope is for Moran to soften her madder streak and obvious private education and model herself of an the NZ pm.
Davey is a total dead loss.
What other options do the Lib Dem’s actually have?
Wilson or Farron would be better.
Wilson is a bit new, but Farron grew on me (I voted Lamb) and I was sorry when he stood down in 2017. It was a mistake for him to go, and I would happily have him back at the top.
The tragedy for the Lib Dems is that neither Davey nor Moran are the right fit for today.
The best hope is for Moran to soften her madder streak and obvious private education and model herself of an the NZ pm.
Davey is a total dead loss.
What other options do the Lib Dem’s actually have?
Wilson or Farron would be better.
Farron was poor. His evangelical Christianity was a major problem as he couldn't see past his resurgent faith (which I share to some extent) that what he thinks isn't what everyone thinks. I struggle to think of something more illiberal than ramming something as personal as your own faith down other people's throats.
Farron may well have been poor, bit is still better positioned than Davey to make a fresh start as a third party.
If the strategy is for LDs to become the old one nation Tory party and attract Rudd and co, then Davey is your man.
Whed "red" Ed Milliband unveiled "One Nation Labour" I was delighted. One Nation politics is the politics of consensus - trying to accomodate those at the top making money without forgetting those at the bottom struggling to survive. Post war both main parties got it - MacMillan campaigning on how many hundreds of thousands of council houses his Tory government were building etc.
So yes, I do want Davey to be One Nation. And to attract more people like Gymah and Allen and Umunna and Berger. Bring in sane people with ideas from both parties, ditch the ideological baggage and do what works. Tory voters are people too. Any party that wants to for a government has to win the support of currently Tory voters. It isn't some kind of negative mark to say so...
It’s a strategy. Go full unapologetically pro coalition. Become the old Tory party. Get a few big hitters like Rudd, Clarke and Gauke to join. A risk. But an option.
We're a third party. Soft left but extending into the soft right. With Labour and Tory moving quite significantly along their own left right axes it feels impossible to triangulate a position against them even if it was sensible to do so.
Aren't most voters a coalition? This government has a thumping majority precisely because punters went blue for the first time ever. Within the space of 25 years we have seen all kinds of unlikely seats flip between various colours whether it be Labour winning unlikely southern places then the Tories unlikely northern ones. Some have been red yellow and blue in less than a decade. People are far more open to ideas and far less wedded to old habits or loyalties than they were.
I blame the LDs for unlocking Pandora’s box. They’ve done it twice. Once by giving the Tories their shot at power and offering little restraint. And then most recently by giving Boris his December election. They just can’t help themselves. I think it makes them feel important, which is real what they crave.
Yes, the clamour for a December election by the LDs was somewhat odd and counter productive, but don't forget the real mastermind behind Johnson's stunning early victory was Jeremy Corbyn.
FPT - I though Ed Davey's snitching on Farage was snide, petty, small, pedantic and pathetic.
No-one it was done by a Lib Dem.
That's them all over.
If Keir Starmer put a picture on twitter, grinning, next to a torn down statue with a rope in his hand, I think you might just be calling for the police to investigate.
Didn't Sir Ed think before he posted that? didn't he realise that Nigel Farage would absolutely love it if he got taken to court and fined for going to the pub?, imagine the free publicity.
The continuing bitterness and anger of some remainers is incredible, we all know that Davey wouldn't have reported someone like John Bercow if he'd done exactly the same, they don't seem to realise that Brexiteers love to wind them up.
On Daisy Cooper mentioned in the article, I've never heard of her so I googled, a new MP only elected last year for a very marginal seat who appears to have only ever worked for think tanks and as a political campaigner. If that's a 'rising star' then the LDs really are in the poo.
For the record:
1. Daisy Cooper seriously considered a leadership campaign, and would have been taken seriously if she had. She is seen as a rising star; 2. Almost all Lib Dem seats are pretty marginal; and 3. The party definitely is in a bad place!
Yes I read that. Would I like £1,500 to spend in the hospitality / independent retail sector? Absolutely. Would I spend £1,500 in them without the Rishi bonus? Absolutely not.
Why not just sub the affected businesses directly with a grant. Or is it better to find some fatcat voucher management organisation to cream off 25% of taxpayers money?
It might be to give everyone a feel good factor by way of an additional return on the money. Which would not be a stupid idea.
It might be a vastly less cost effective one though. But hey, it's only taxpayers money, so no harm done. Besides which some party donor could become eye wateringly wealthy in the process.
The tragedy for the Lib Dems is that neither Davey nor Moran are the right fit for today.
The best hope is for Moran to soften her madder streak and obvious private education and model herself of an the NZ pm.
Davey is a total dead loss.
What other options do the Lib Dem’s actually have?
Wilson or Farron would be better.
Farron was poor. His evangelical Christianity was a major problem as he couldn't see past his resurgent faith (which I share to some extent) that what he thinks isn't what everyone thinks. I struggle to think of something more illiberal than ramming something as personal as your own faith down other people's throats.
Farron may well have been poor, bit is still better positioned than Davey to make a fresh start as a third party.
If the strategy is for LDs to become the old one nation Tory party and attract Rudd and co, then Davey is your man.
Whed "red" Ed Milliband unveiled "One Nation Labour" I was delighted. One Nation politics is the politics of consensus - trying to accomodate those at the top making money without forgetting those at the bottom struggling to survive. Post war both main parties got it - MacMillan campaigning on how many hundreds of thousands of council houses his Tory government were building etc.
So yes, I do want Davey to be One Nation. And to attract more people like Gymah and Allen and Umunna and Berger. Bring in sane people with ideas from both parties, ditch the ideological baggage and do what works. Tory voters are people too. Any party that wants to for a government has to win the support of currently Tory voters. It isn't some kind of negative mark to say so...
It’s a strategy. Go full unapologetically pro coalition. Become the old Tory party. Get a few big hitters like Rudd, Clarke and Gauke to join. A risk. But an option.
We're a third party. Soft left but extending into the soft right. With Labour and Tory moving quite significantly along their own left right axes it feels impossible to triangulate a position against them even if it was sensible to do so.
Aren't most voters a coalition? This government has a thumping majority precisely because punters went blue for the first time ever. Within the space of 25 years we have seen all kinds of unlikely seats flip between various colours whether it be Labour winning unlikely southern places then the Tories unlikely northern ones. Some have been red yellow and blue in less than a decade. People are far more open to ideas and far less wedded to old habits or loyalties than they were.
I blame the LDs for unlocking Pandora’s box. They’ve done it twice. Once by giving the Tories their shot at power and offering little restraint. And then most recently by giving Boris his December election. They just can’t help themselves. I think it makes them feel important, which is real what they crave.
Yes, the clamour for a December election by the LDs was somewhat odd and counter productive, but don't forget the real mastermind behind Johnson's stunning early victory was Jeremy Corbyn.
How so? You can blame Corbyn for many, many things, but not that. Once the Lib Dens failed to hold the line it all came crashing down.
The tragedy for the Lib Dems is that neither Davey nor Moran are the right fit for today.
The best hope is for Moran to soften her madder streak and obvious private education and model herself of an the NZ pm.
Davey is a total dead loss.
What other options do the Lib Dem’s actually have?
Wilson or Farron would be better.
Wilson is a bit new, but Farron grew on me (I voted Lamb) and I was sorry when he stood down in 2017. It was a mistake for him to go, and I would happily have him back at the top.
Farron got hammered by his fellow travellers for his Christian view on gay love. Once that came up it was a one way trajectory for him.
Looks like Huawei is set to be banned from key infrastructure. Should have been the original decision. Hopefully the government also steps in an bans their corporate espionage R&D centre in Cambridge.
I think this is also an example of why Sedwill needed to go and a general insight into the complacent attitude if the establishment. They always think they know best, even though time and again it's been shown they don't have a clue.
Your second paragraph doesn’t follow from your first. Are you saying that Sedwill made the decision on Huawei rather than the PM who, I seem to to remember, was rather keen on Huawei?
Looks like Huawei is set to be banned from key infrastructure. Should have been the original decision. Hopefully the government also steps in an bans their corporate espionage R&D centre in Cambridge.
I think this is also an example of why Sedwill needed to go and a general insight into the complacent attitude if the establishment. They always think they know best, even though time and again it's been shown they don't have a clue.
Your second paragraph doesn’t follow from your first. Are you saying that Sedwill made the decision on Huawei rather than the PM who, I seem to to remember, was rather keen on Huawei?
Don't let truth get in the way of a PB Tory soundbite!
Perhaps the LDs should consider a leader outside Westminster. They don’t have the third party platform at PMQs, so it’s not a huge loss. It would position them nicely as insurgent outsiders. Not being an MP never harmed Nigels presence.
The Lib Dems have spectaculally managed not to be on the wrong side of history, but to be on no side of it at all.
They didn't oppose Cameron and now they tell us they didn't support him either. They aren't the party of leave and it seems not the party of remain. They were the party of a second referendum, until they weren't.
They aren't the party of supporting lockdown and they aren't the party of lifting it.
Looks like Huawei is set to be banned from key infrastructure. Should have been the original decision. Hopefully the government also steps in an bans their corporate espionage R&D centre in Cambridge.
I think this is also an example of why Sedwill needed to go and a general insight into the complacent attitude if the establishment. They always think they know best, even though time and again it's been shown they don't have a clue.
Your second paragraph doesn’t follow from your first. Are you saying that Sedwill made the decision on Huawei rather than the PM who, I seem to to remember, was rather keen on Huawei?
Don't let truth get in the way of a PB Tory soundbite!
I will be surprised if Ed Davey doesn't win due to the large LD membership around London and the SE who supports him and Daisy Cooper's key endorsement.
Of the top 50 LD target seats, 43 are held by the Tories and just 4 are held by Labour so the LDs need to pick a leader to appeal to Tory Remain voters in those seats at the next general election. Davey being on the liberal wing of the party would be better placed to do that than Moran who is on the more social democratic wing
The tragedy for the Lib Dems is that neither Davey nor Moran are the right fit for today.
The best hope is for Moran to soften her madder streak and obvious private education and model herself of an the NZ pm.
Davey is a total dead loss.
What other options do the Lib Dem’s actually have?
Wilson or Farron would be better.
Darrin carries baggage that can make him look foolish to outsiders.
Davey carries the most baggage. Mr coalition.
I don't know your political persuasion Jonathan but you raise a key point - how people look on the coalition. I was a Labour activist during the coalition years so of course I was largely against it. But as a student of politics I know that all governments do good and bad (Labour towards the end had been mainly bad) and there were definitely some positives from the coalition. Clegg failed on an epic scale on three grounds - his personal decision to drop the tuition fees pledge whilst still campaigning on it, his inability to drive a yellow wedge between him and the Tories (the blues managed it just fine the other way round...) and the inability to claim credit for the things they did.
In literally the last few days Davey has gone into battle against Gove stealing pupil premium. That is a good sign. The LibDems can draw positives from the coalition by positively claiming credit for all the good they did - pupil premium, triple lock pensions, green energy, gay marriage - and pointing out that not only was all the bad the Tories but look how bad they got when they won a majority. You don't win by trashing your own record in office. As for tuition fees - which is the singular issue that many people think of as the Coalition - that is simple to handle. Clegg did it. Didn't tell us. Didn't give us a choice. He's a lobbyist for Facebook's right to promote hate now. Go blame him.
SIR Ed l carries the coalition’s baggage in his name.
Do you think the Lib Dems will find him a bit 'Dave-y' for their taste?
He's just a bit male, pale and stale. Had his Ministerial limo. Unlikely to get near to power again. What does he offer, stranded between Boris and Sir Keir?
A shame, because I reckon Daisy could have offered something better to the voters. Time for the LibDems to be bold. Of course, they could still acknowledge they can get power at local level, drill down into that and become an avowedly local party - with no great interest in Westminster.
Of the top 50 LD target seats, 43 are held by the Tories and just 4 are held by Labour so the LDs need to pick a leader to appeal to Tory Remain voters in those seats at the next general election. Davey being on the liberal wing of the party would be better placed to do that than Moran who is on the more social democratic wing
Seems Panelbase have cornered the market in Scotch polling.
If that poll was accurate (an absolute majority voting SNP in both constituency and list) then avoiding a referendum - or a Yes vote - are likely impossible.
There is simply no possible way to deny a vote if an absolute majority have voted SNP.
And don't be preposterous banging on about Salmond going on about "once in a generation" - Salmond is not leader and no Parliament can bind its successor, no leader can bind their successor. That's more than just a constitutional nicety its a fundamental principle of democracy.
I agree and an indy ref looks as if it is needed sometime post Holyrood 21 but I believe it is unlikely to happen before 2022. The role of Starmer in the debate will be key because if he backs Boris in refusing indy2 then no amount of demands from the SNP will make a difference for the holding of a legitimate poll
However, it must be in the interests of all parties to agree and make their arguments and accept the outcome
As a LibDem member, I've decided to vote for Ed Davey and have already nominated him.
If Layla Moran had stood at the last leadership election I would probably have voted for her. She is more left wing than Ed Davey (and I'm very left wing) and she would be a fresh appealing face rather than a pale stale male. In the end I voted for Jo Swinson. Enough said.
My problem with Layla is that she has a problematic back story and is very "woke". There was the fight with her boyfriend over a power cable which ended up with with her being arrested and detained by the police. It could happen to anyone I suppose but showed a degree of recklessness. However she then ditched her boyfriend and has now gone pansexual with Rosy Cobb, former press officer for the LibDems who was fired for forging an email to cover a lie. https://metro.co.uk/2020/01/03/pansexuality-mp-layla-moran-shares-new-partner-selfie-11994550/ This is just too risky for me. Furthermore I think she would lead the LibDems down a woke cul-de-sac when most people are concerned about jobs, health and education rather than TERF wars. I also don't think she would get on with Keir Starmer. Apart from that I'm reserving judgement!
Ed Davey is solid, safe and genial - not the most exciting person in the world I agree. But he has a good story on green energy, will get on well with Keir Starmer which is crucial, and it's four years until the next GE. Step by step we'll get out of our parlous state starting with the locals next year. It also looks as if Keir Starmer is warming towards STV. I liked Ed Davey's opinion piece in HuffPost. https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/lib-dem-leadership_uk_5ef22378c5b601e59955a09d
Perhaps the LDs should consider a leader outside Westminster. They don’t have the third party platform at PMQs, so it’s not a huge loss. It would position them nicely as insurgent outsiders. Not being an MP never harmed Nigels presence.
I see your logic, but Farage was skilled at generating presence before he became party leader. There are no obvious candidates for the LDs like that (except for Gina Miller who doesn't want the job and would be an extremely bold statement the party doesn't want to take).
The Lib Dems biggest problem is carving out a distinctive policy platform. As a keen political observer, I'm not quite sure what they stand for other than "not Lab/Con", or in between Lab/Con - i.e. centrist.
At the last election the only policy that got traction was the disastrous revocation. They can go green - but both Labour and the Greens will be at least as green, and more so in the latter case. On tax and spend, they can be a bit redistributive - but Labour will also be, and the Tories may be forced to raise taxes. They can push the small 'l' liberal agenda, but I'm not sure that in the current climate there's too much mileage in that. They can be internationalist, but so will Starmer.
So I suspect they will be left with not that many voters - mainly those soft Tories who don't like this government but can't bring themselves to vote Labour. Even this number looks likely to dwindle under Starmer.
And finally, I don't rate either Davey or Moran particularly - not sure either have got the real leadership skills required. If I were a Lib Dem, I'd be a bit gloomy.
Perhaps the LDs should consider a leader outside Westminster. They don’t have the third party platform at PMQs, so it’s not a huge loss. It would position them nicely as insurgent outsiders. Not being an MP never harmed Nigels presence.
I see your logic, but Farage was skilled at generating presence before he became party leader. There are no obvious candidates for the LDs like that (except for Gina Miller who doesn't want the job and would be an extremely bold statement the party doesn't want to take).
On the charity slave auctions mentioned above: there was a very right wing guy at my college who put himself up for sale at one of these. The group that bought him got him to sell copies of Socialist Worker outside the Oxford Union for a morning.
I’m not sure why anyone would think that doing something like this for charity could possibly be a bad thing, particularly if we are thinking about the people who put themselves up for sale.
The tragedy for the Lib Dems is that neither Davey nor Moran are the right fit for today.
The best hope is for Moran to soften her madder streak and obvious private education and model herself of an the NZ pm.
Davey is a total dead loss.
What other options do the Lib Dem’s actually have?
Wilson or Farron would be better.
Farron was poor. His evangelical Christianity was a major problem as he couldn't see past his resurgent faith (which I share to some extent) that what he thinks isn't what everyone thinks. I struggle to think of something more illiberal than ramming something as personal as your own faith down other people's throats.
Farron may well have been poor, bit is still better positioned than Davey to make a fresh start as a third party.
If the strategy is for LDs to become the old one nation Tory party and attract Rudd and co, then Davey is your man.
Whed "red" Ed Milliband unveiled "One Nation Labour" I was delighted. One Nation politics is the politics of consensus - trying to accomodate those at the top making money without forgetting those at the bottom struggling to survive. Post war both main parties got it - MacMillan campaigning on how many hundreds of thousands of council houses his Tory government were building etc.
So yes, I do want Davey to be One Nation. And to attract more people like Gymah and Allen and Umunna and Berger. Bring in sane people with ideas from both parties, ditch the ideological baggage and do what works. Tory voters are people too. Any party that wants to for a government has to win the support of currently Tory voters. It isn't some kind of negative mark to say so...
It’s a strategy. Go full unapologetically pro coalition. Become the old Tory party. Get a few big hitters like Rudd, Clarke and Gauke to join. A risk. But an option.
We're a third party. Soft left but extending into the soft right. With Labour and Tory moving quite significantly along their own left right axes it feels impossible to triangulate a position against them even if it was sensible to do so.
Aren't most voters a coalition? This government has a thumping majority precisely because punters went blue for the first time ever. Within the space of 25 years we have seen all kinds of unlikely seats flip between various colours whether it be Labour winning unlikely southern places then the Tories unlikely northern ones. Some have been red yellow and blue in less than a decade. People are far more open to ideas and far less wedded to old habits or loyalties than they were.
I blame the LDs for unlocking Pandora’s box. They’ve done it twice. Once by giving the Tories their shot at power and offering little restraint. And then most recently by giving Boris his December election. They just can’t help themselves. I think it makes them feel important, which is real what they crave.
Yes, the clamour for a December election by the LDs was somewhat odd and counter productive, but don't forget the real mastermind behind Johnson's stunning early victory was Jeremy Corbyn.
How so? You can blame Corbyn for many, many things, but not that. Once the Lib Dens failed to hold the line it all came crashing down.
Corbyn had been banging on about an election since 2017. Even when the writing was on the wall that against Johnson in 2019 Labour would be hung out to dry, he still went for it. Corbyn could have prevented a December 2019 election. The one big upside is that from that decision, Corbyn is no more.
Incidentally, I looked through that Epstein address book someone posted on here and was not that surprised to find that I knew personally a number of the people listed and even less surprised to find that I have investigated one, for alleged corruption of public officials.
Boring as it may seem I am rather more interested in how Epstein made - and kept - his money. He seems to have risen without trace.
Ed Davey isn't the ideal candidate but he can probably net the Lib Dems another 10 seats or so just by not being Jo Swinson.
The Lib Dems are likely to remain fairly invisible until May 2021 when they can get good publicity from significant gains in the county council elections if they play the expectation management game right.
The tragedy for the Lib Dems is that neither Davey nor Moran are the right fit for today.
The best hope is for Moran to soften her madder streak and obvious private education and model herself of an the NZ pm.
Davey is a total dead loss.
What other options do the Lib Dem’s actually have?
Wilson or Farron would be better.
Farron was poor. His evangelical Christianity was a major problem as he couldn't see past his resurgent faith (which I share to some extent) that what he thinks isn't what everyone thinks. I struggle to think of something more illiberal than ramming something as personal as your own faith down other people's throats.
Farron may well have been poor, bit is still better positioned than Davey to make a fresh start as a third party.
If the strategy is for LDs to become the old one nation Tory party and attract Rudd and co, then Davey is your man.
Whed "red" Ed Milliband unveiled "One Nation Labour" I was delighted. One Nation politics is the politics of consensus - trying to accomodate those at the top making money without forgetting those at the bottom struggling to survive. Post war both main parties got it - MacMillan campaigning on how many hundreds of thousands of council houses his Tory government were building etc.
So yes, I do want Davey to be One Nation. And to attract more people like Gymah and Allen and Umunna and Berger. Bring in sane people with ideas from both parties, ditch the ideological baggage and do what works. Tory voters are people too. Any party that wants to for a government has to win the support of currently Tory voters. It isn't some kind of negative mark to say so...
It’s a strategy. Go full unapologetically pro coalition. Become the old Tory party. Get a few big hitters like Rudd, Clarke and Gauke to join. A risk. But an option.
We're a third party. Soft left but extending into the soft right. With Labour and Tory moving quite significantly along their own left right axes it feels impossible to triangulate a position against them even if it was sensible to do so.
Aren't most voters a coalition? This government has a thumping majority precisely because punters went blue for the first time ever. Within the space of 25 years we have seen all kinds of unlikely seats flip between various colours whether it be Labour winning unlikely southern places then the Tories unlikely northern ones. Some have been red yellow and blue in less than a decade. People are far more open to ideas and far less wedded to old habits or loyalties than they were.
I blame the LDs for unlocking Pandora’s box. They’ve done it twice. Once by giving the Tories their shot at power and offering little restraint. And then most recently by giving Boris his December election. They just can’t help themselves. I think it makes them feel important, which is real what they crave.
Yes, the clamour for a December election by the LDs was somewhat odd and counter productive, but don't forget the real mastermind behind Johnson's stunning early victory was Jeremy Corbyn.
How so? You can blame Corbyn for many, many things, but not that. Once the Lib Dens failed to hold the line it all came crashing down.
Corbyn had been banging on about an election since 2017. Even when the writing was on the wall that against Johnson in 2019 Labour would be hung out to dry, he still went for it. Corbyn could have prevented a December 2019 election. The one big upside is that from that decision, Corbyn is no more.
Once the LibDems & SNP switched Boris had the numbers. Corbyn had no choice.
The Lib Dems have spectaculally managed not to be on the wrong side of history, but to be on no side of it at all.
They didn't oppose Cameron and now they tell us they didn't support him either. They aren't the party of leave and it seems not the party of remain. They were the party of a second referendum, until they weren't.
They aren't the party of supporting lockdown and they aren't the party of lifting it.
They were also in favour of an in/out referendum in 2010, not so much in 2015.
Yes, the clamour for a December election by the LDs was somewhat odd and counter productive, but don't forget the real mastermind behind Johnson's stunning early victory was Jeremy Corbyn.
This is an old argument which never goes anywhere, but I completely disagree with this bit of conventional wisdom. The December election was a bad option, but better than the alternatives for the party.
Johnson's Brexit Withdrawal Bill passed at a 2nd reading, it was only the very short programme motion which was rejected. The Lib Dems had 3 options:
1. Block an election, see a longer programme motion be passed and then the bill be passed, have an election in early 2020 once Brexit was confirmed; 2. Block an election, see the bill be passed as #1, continue blocking elections (and everything else?) until 2022 or whenever opposition discipline broke down; or 3. Vote for an election taking place before the bill was passed and hope for a shock result like 2017 allowing a 2nd Ref coalition to form.
#3 is hella risky, but #1 and #2 are even worse. Both end the final chance to stop Brexit (which, whatever your views on it, was a key policy of the party) and there's no reason to believe the election would have gone worse for Johnson that 2019 did. Especially option #2, which would have been even more establishment vs the people's choice than we had!
Perhaps there was an option which I've missed, but I don't see how the Lib Dems could have delayed an election to a better time (which isn't to say December was a good time, but that things weren't going to get better if it was blocked for a while) or had a better chance to stop Brexit than an election (which, again, isn't to say December 2019 was a good chance to stop Brexit but it was a better chance than doing so after the Withdrawal Bill was passed!).
On the charity slave auctions mentioned above: there was a very right wing guy at my college who put himself up for sale at one of these. The group that bought him got him to sell copies of Socialist Worker outside the Oxford Union for a morning.
I’m not sure why anyone would think that doing something like this for charity could possibly be a bad thing, particularly if we are thinking about the people who put themselves up for sale.
Absolutely!
I did it when I was at university. A girl in my Halls 'bought' me for 24 hours and I went to her lectures rather than my own for a day and took her notes for her mainly. Not the most interesting story to tell.
It was all considered fun and games and a way to raise money for good causes. I respect people of any stripe of creed who did that because putting yourself at the risk of embarrassment to raise money for good causes is a ritual a great many students have been through.
PS the one interesting thing I learnt attending the lectures of the person who "bought" me for the day was the etymology of the name Nottingham. From memory 'ingham' meaning "town of" and named after the chief who forms the first part of the name. The original name was Snottingham named after chief Snott so literally translates to "the town of Snott". That's always stuck in my memory afterwards.
5% swing for the Lib Dems to take another 15 seats - and would certainly make Labour's job easier. Any Lib Dem leader should be finding out what these seats want.
Perhaps the LDs should consider a leader outside Westminster. They don’t have the third party platform at PMQs, so it’s not a huge loss. It would position them nicely as insurgent outsiders. Not being an MP never harmed Nigels presence.
I see your logic, but Farage was skilled at generating presence before he became party leader. There are no obvious candidates for the LDs like that (except for Gina Miller who doesn't want the job and would be an extremely bold statement the party doesn't want to take).
Chukka or Amber.
I don't think any of the defectors would do. A leader outside parliament would perhaps free up MPs time to cultivate their own constituencies, but would need to be a longstanding member. Norman Lamb for example .
The Lib Dems biggest problem is carving out a distinctive policy platform. As a keen political observer, I'm not quite sure what they stand for other than "not Lab/Con", or in between Lab/Con - i.e. centrist.
At the last election the only policy that got traction was the disastrous revocation. They can go green - but both Labour and the Greens will be at least as green, and more so in the latter case. On tax and spend, they can be a bit redistributive - but Labour will also be, and the Tories may be forced to raise taxes. They can push the small 'l' liberal agenda, but I'm not sure that in the current climate there's too much mileage in that. They can be internationalist, but so will Starmer.
So I suspect they will be left with not that many voters - mainly those soft Tories who don't like this government but can't bring themselves to vote Labour. Even this number looks likely to dwindle under Starmer.
And finally, I don't rate either Davey or Moran particularly - not sure either have got the real leadership skills required. If I were a Lib Dem, I'd be a bit gloomy.
Id agree with your analysis but perhaps that will lead them to where they should be, going green in a big way but in conjunction with business, trade and tech which would be quite distinctive from the green party. Also covid may also point to some quite radical and effective policies that can help transform our economy, health and educations services, that the bigger parties may be scared of committing to.
Incidentally, I looked through that Epstein address book someone posted on here and was not that surprised to find that I knew personally a number of the people listed and even less surprised to find that I have investigated one, for alleged corruption of public officials.
Boring as it may seem I am rather more interested in how Epstein made - and kept - his money. He seems to have risen without trace.
The large sums of money going back and forth between him and Maxwell are also to be explained.
Yes, the clamour for a December election by the LDs was somewhat odd and counter productive, but don't forget the real mastermind behind Johnson's stunning early victory was Jeremy Corbyn.
This is an old argument which never goes anywhere, but I completely disagree with this bit of conventional wisdom. The December election was a bad option, but better than the alternatives for the party.
Johnson's Brexit Withdrawal Bill passed at a 2nd reading, it was only the very short programme motion which was rejected. The Lib Dems had 3 options:
1. Block an election, see a longer programme motion be passed and then the bill be passed, have an election in early 2020 once Brexit was confirmed; 2. Block an election, see the bill be passed as #1, continue blocking elections (and everything else?) until 2022 or whenever opposition discipline broke down; or 3. Vote for an election taking place before the bill was passed and hope for a shock result like 2017 allowing a 2nd Ref coalition to form.
#3 is hella risky, but #1 and #2 are even worse. Both end the final chance to stop Brexit (which, whatever your views on it, was a key policy of the party) and there's no reason to believe the election would have gone worse for Johnson that 2019 did. Especially option #2, which would have been even more establishment vs the people's choice than we had!
Perhaps there was an option which I've missed, but I don't see how the Lib Dems could have delayed an election to a better time (which isn't to say December was a good time, but that things weren't going to get better if it was blocked for a while) or had a better chance to stop Brexit than an election (which, again, isn't to say December 2019 was a good chance to stop Brexit but it was a better chance than doing so after the Withdrawal Bill was passed!).
Agreed. If you wanted to stop Brexit the only way of doing so was via the ballot box.
The issue for the Lib Dems is the public wanted to Get Brexit Done rather than say Bollocks to Brexit.
Perhaps the LDs should consider a leader outside Westminster. They don’t have the third party platform at PMQs, so it’s not a huge loss. It would position them nicely as insurgent outsiders. Not being an MP never harmed Nigels presence.
Hasn't really worked for the Greens. I bet most people still think Lucas is the leader, and even people who follow politics may not realise it is no longer Lucas and Bartley.
The Lib Dems biggest problem is carving out a distinctive policy platform. As a keen political observer, I'm not quite sure what they stand for other than "not Lab/Con", or in between Lab/Con - i.e. centrist.
At the last election the only policy that got traction was the disastrous revocation. They can go green - but both Labour and the Greens will be at least as green, and more so in the latter case. On tax and spend, they can be a bit redistributive - but Labour will also be, and the Tories may be forced to raise taxes. They can push the small 'l' liberal agenda, but I'm not sure that in the current climate there's too much mileage in that. They can be internationalist, but so will Starmer.
So I suspect they will be left with not that many voters - mainly those soft Tories who don't like this government but can't bring themselves to vote Labour. Even this number looks likely to dwindle under Starmer.
And finally, I don't rate either Davey or Moran particularly - not sure either have got the real leadership skills required. If I were a Lib Dem, I'd be a bit gloomy.
Id agree with your analysis but perhaps that will lead them to where they should be, going green in a big way but in conjunction with business, trade and tech which would be quite distinctive from the green party. Also covid may also point to some quite radical and effective policies that can help transform our economy, health and educations services, that the bigger parties may be scared of committing to.
The tragedy for the Lib Dems is that neither Davey nor Moran are the right fit for today.
The best hope is for Moran to soften her madder streak and obvious private education and model herself of an the NZ pm.
Davey is a total dead loss.
What other options do the Lib Dem’s actually have?
Wilson or Farron would be better.
Farron was poor. His evangelical Christianity was a major problem as he couldn't see past his resurgent faith (which I share to some extent) that what he thinks isn't what everyone thinks. I struggle to think of something more illiberal than ramming something as personal as your own faith down other people's throats.
Farron may well have been poor, bit is still better positioned than Davey to make a fresh start as a third party.
If the strategy is for LDs to become the old one nation Tory party and attract Rudd and co, then Davey is your man.
Whed "red" Ed Milliband unveiled "One Nation Labour" I was delighted. One Nation politics is the politics of consensus - trying to accomodate those at the top making money without forgetting those at the bottom struggling to survive. Post war both main parties got it - MacMillan campaigning on how many hundreds of thousands of council houses his Tory government were building etc.
So yes, I do want Davey to be One Nation. And to attract more people like Gymah and Allen and Umunna and Berger. Bring in sane people with ideas from both parties, ditch the ideological baggage and do what works. Tory voters are people too. Any party that wants to for a government has to win the support of currently Tory voters. It isn't some kind of negative mark to say so...
It’s a strategy. Go full unapologetically pro coalition. Become the old Tory party. Get a few big hitters like Rudd, Clarke and Gauke to join. A risk. But an option.
We're a third party. Soft left but extending into the soft right. With Labour and Tory moving quite significantly along their own left right axes it feels impossible to triangulate a position against them even if it was sensible to do so.
Aren't most voters a coalition? This government has a thumping majority precisely because punters went blue for the first time ever. Within the space of 25 years we have seen all kinds of unlikely seats flip between various colours whether it be Labour winning unlikely southern places then the Tories unlikely northern ones. Some have been red yellow and blue in less than a decade. People are far more open to ideas and far less wedded to old habits or loyalties than they were.
I blame the LDs for unlocking Pandora’s box. They’ve done it twice. Once by giving the Tories their shot at power and offering little restraint. And then most recently by giving Boris his December election. They just can’t help themselves. I think it makes them feel important, which is real what they crave.
Look at the 2010 election result. I was a Labour activist. Believe me I ran the numbers hoping there was a way to keep the Tories out. There wasn't - as various Labour cabinet secretaries pointedly told Brown. The Tories were taking office one way or another because thats what people voted for. A minority Tory government would have gone back to the country (they're good at that...) and won a proper majority. We've seen what majority Tory government does, the "little restraint" delivered a huge amount that wouldn't otherwise have happened.
Again, I don't know your politics but I get what you're saying. It became absurd the way that Clegg ran the LD side in the coalition. LibDem MPs voted more loyally for the Tory bills than Tory MPs did. If Arlene Foster could make demands with menaces then Clegg should have learned to do the same.
Perhaps the LDs should consider a leader outside Westminster. They don’t have the third party platform at PMQs, so it’s not a huge loss. It would position them nicely as insurgent outsiders. Not being an MP never harmed Nigels presence.
I see your logic, but Farage was skilled at generating presence before he became party leader. There are no obvious candidates for the LDs like that (except for Gina Miller who doesn't want the job and would be an extremely bold statement the party doesn't want to take).
Chukka or Amber.
Mark the time and date, someone has changed someone else's mind online. If Chukka or Amber, or probably Heidi Allen, would want the job then I'd vote for them on this basis.
Party rules would need changing since they currently require the leader be an MP (if we have any, I assume, but I've not read the rulebook myself), but I'd support that too.
Perhaps the LDs should consider a leader outside Westminster. They don’t have the third party platform at PMQs, so it’s not a huge loss. It would position them nicely as insurgent outsiders. Not being an MP never harmed Nigels presence.
Hasn't really worked for the Greens. I bet most people still think Lucas is the leader, and even people who follow politics may not realise it is no longer Lucas and Bartley.
You have to pick a leader with a personality and charisma to go down this path.
Yes, the clamour for a December election by the LDs was somewhat odd and counter productive, but don't forget the real mastermind behind Johnson's stunning early victory was Jeremy Corbyn.
This is an old argument which never goes anywhere, but I completely disagree with this bit of conventional wisdom. The December election was a bad option, but better than the alternatives for the party.
Johnson's Brexit Withdrawal Bill passed at a 2nd reading, it was only the very short programme motion which was rejected. The Lib Dems had 3 options:
1. Block an election, see a longer programme motion be passed and then the bill be passed, have an election in early 2020 once Brexit was confirmed; 2. Block an election, see the bill be passed as #1, continue blocking elections (and everything else?) until 2022 or whenever opposition discipline broke down; or 3. Vote for an election taking place before the bill was passed and hope for a shock result like 2017 allowing a 2nd Ref coalition to form.
#3 is hella risky, but #1 and #2 are even worse. Both end the final chance to stop Brexit (which, whatever your views on it, was a key policy of the party) and there's no reason to believe the election would have gone worse for Johnson that 2019 did. Especially option #2, which would have been even more establishment vs the people's choice than we had!
Perhaps there was an option which I've missed, but I don't see how the Lib Dems could have delayed an election to a better time (which isn't to say December was a good time, but that things weren't going to get better if it was blocked for a while) or had a better chance to stop Brexit than an election (which, again, isn't to say December 2019 was a good chance to stop Brexit but it was a better chance than doing so after the Withdrawal Bill was passed!).
Agreed, the opportunity that was missed was not engaging with the indicative votes much earlier in the year. Once Johnson had a deal, the only chance to stop Brexit was an election, and if the LDs thought it as calamitous a policy as they do, then accepting the election was the only sensible course of action.
Ed Davey isn't the ideal candidate but he can probably net the Lib Dems another 10 seats or so just by not being Jo Swinson.
The Lib Dems are likely to remain fairly invisible until May 2021 when they can get good publicity from significant gains in the county council elections if they play the expectation management game right.
The only news likely to result from the 2021 election night is going to be Scotland not the Lib Dems.
Plus won't the Mayoral elections be then too? So the Lib Dems won't even be the secondary news story either.
Yes I read that. Would I like £1,500 to spend in the hospitality / independent retail sector? Absolutely. Would I spend £1,500 in them without the Rishi bonus? Absolutely not.
Why not just sub the affected businesses directly with a grant. Or is it better to find some fatcat voucher management organisation to cream off 25% of taxpayers money?
Capitalism in the fiat world is a confidence trick. Money needs to circulate not just be granted to business to patch over the holes in their P&L / cashflow
Yes, the clamour for a December election by the LDs was somewhat odd and counter productive, but don't forget the real mastermind behind Johnson's stunning early victory was Jeremy Corbyn.
This is an old argument which never goes anywhere, but I completely disagree with this bit of conventional wisdom. The December election was a bad option, but better than the alternatives for the party.
Johnson's Brexit Withdrawal Bill passed at a 2nd reading, it was only the very short programme motion which was rejected. The Lib Dems had 3 options:
1. Block an election, see a longer programme motion be passed and then the bill be passed, have an election in early 2020 once Brexit was confirmed; 2. Block an election, see the bill be passed as #1, continue blocking elections (and everything else?) until 2022 or whenever opposition discipline broke down; or 3. Vote for an election taking place before the bill was passed and hope for a shock result like 2017 allowing a 2nd Ref coalition to form.
#3 is hella risky, but #1 and #2 are even worse. Both end the final chance to stop Brexit (which, whatever your views on it, was a key policy of the party) and there's no reason to believe the election would have gone worse for Johnson that 2019 did. Especially option #2, which would have been even more establishment vs the people's choice than we had!
Perhaps there was an option which I've missed, but I don't see how the Lib Dems could have delayed an election to a better time (which isn't to say December was a good time, but that things weren't going to get better if it was blocked for a while) or had a better chance to stop Brexit than an election (which, again, isn't to say December 2019 was a good chance to stop Brexit but it was a better chance than doing so after the Withdrawal Bill was passed!).
The opinion polls implied anything other than a decent Johnson victory was unlikely. The early election allowed Brexit to be done on Cummings term's. All the options for Remainers were bad, but I felt by hanging on longer something might have come up, which could have changed the dynamic, and it has.
The tragedy for the Lib Dems is that neither Davey nor Moran are the right fit for today.
The best hope is for Moran to soften her madder streak and obvious private education and model herself of an the NZ pm.
Davey is a total dead loss.
What other options do the Lib Dem’s actually have?
Wilson or Farron would be better.
Farron was poor. His evangelical Christianity was a major problem as he couldn't see past his resurgent faith (which I share to some extent) that what he thinks isn't what everyone thinks. I struggle to think of something more illiberal than ramming something as personal as your own faith down other people's throats.
Farron may well have been poor, bit is still better positioned than Davey to make a fresh start as a third party.
If the strategy is for LDs to become the old one nation Tory party and attract Rudd and co, then Davey is your man.
Whed "red" Ed Milliband unveiled "One Nation Labour" I was delighted. One Nation politics is the politics of consensus - trying to accomodate those at the top making money without forgetting those at the bottom struggling to survive. Post war both main parties got it - MacMillan campaigning on how many hundreds of thousands of council houses his Tory government were building etc.
So yes, I do want Davey to be One Nation. And to attract more people like Gymah and Allen and Umunna and Berger. Bring in sane people with ideas from both parties, ditch the ideological baggage and do what works. Tory voters are people too. Any party that wants to for a government has to win the support of currently Tory voters. It isn't some kind of negative mark to say so...
It’s a strategy. Go full unapologetically pro coalition. Become the old Tory party. Get a few big hitters like Rudd, Clarke and Gauke to join. A risk. But an option.
We're a third party. Soft left but extending into the soft right. With Labour and Tory moving quite significantly along their own left right axes it feels impossible to triangulate a position against them even if it was sensible to do so.
Aren't most voters a coalition? This government has a thumping majority precisely because punters went blue for the first time ever. Within the space of 25 years we have seen all kinds of unlikely seats flip between various colours whether it be Labour winning unlikely southern places then the Tories unlikely northern ones. Some have been red yellow and blue in less than a decade. People are far more open to ideas and far less wedded to old habits or loyalties than they were.
I blame the LDs for unlocking Pandora’s box. They’ve done it twice. Once by giving the Tories their shot at power and offering little restraint. And then most recently by giving Boris his December election. They just can’t help themselves. I think it makes them feel important, which is real what they crave.
Yes, the clamour for a December election by the LDs was somewhat odd and counter productive, but don't forget the real mastermind behind Johnson's stunning early victory was Jeremy Corbyn.
How so? You can blame Corbyn for many, many things, but not that. Once the Lib Dens failed to hold the line it all came crashing down.
Corbyn had been banging on about an election since 2017. Even when the writing was on the wall that against Johnson in 2019 Labour would be hung out to dry, he still went for it. Corbyn could have prevented a December 2019 election. The one big upside is that from that decision, Corbyn is no more.
yes he is even voted against by his former mates when he tried to get a position with Labour. I wonder how those who put him up for leader sleep at night...
The Lib Dems biggest problem is carving out a distinctive policy platform. As a keen political observer, I'm not quite sure what they stand for other than "not Lab/Con", or in between Lab/Con - i.e. centrist.
At the last election the only policy that got traction was the disastrous revocation. They can go green - but both Labour and the Greens will be at least as green, and more so in the latter case. On tax and spend, they can be a bit redistributive - but Labour will also be, and the Tories may be forced to raise taxes. They can push the small 'l' liberal agenda, but I'm not sure that in the current climate there's too much mileage in that. They can be internationalist, but so will Starmer.
So I suspect they will be left with not that many voters - mainly those soft Tories who don't like this government but can't bring themselves to vote Labour. Even this number looks likely to dwindle under Starmer.
And finally, I don't rate either Davey or Moran particularly - not sure either have got the real leadership skills required. If I were a Lib Dem, I'd be a bit gloomy.
Id agree with your analysis but perhaps that will lead them to where they should be, going green in a big way but in conjunction with business, trade and tech which would be quite distinctive from the green party. Also covid may also point to some quite radical and effective policies that can help transform our economy, health and educations services, that the bigger parties may be scared of committing to.
How would that be any different to the Tories?
There are some Tories who indeed want to be in that space and lots more who talk about it. Others say F business, are anti trade and cant build a simple app when it was one of the governments main priorities.
Most LD target seats are vs Tories, so its fairly inevitable they will often be competing on similar policies.
I would be interested in any significant differences that will be obvious between Starmer's Labour and Davey Lib Dem 2024 election promises
I would expect the LibDems to have more on political reform, devolution and civil liberties than Labour, to be more financially prudent, to be more sceptical about Trident and foreign interventions, and I expect Labour will try to say as little about the EU as possible. The LibDems will probably be braver than Labour on issues such as moving the tax base from income to capital, and on decriminalising soft drugs. LibDems will probably give greater prominence to environmental policies. Labour will be bolder on spending pledges (esp NHS spending) and 'investment' in infrastructure, and, probably, on student finance.
Yes I read that. Would I like £1,500 to spend in the hospitality / independent retail sector? Absolutely. Would I spend £1,500 in them without the Rishi bonus? Absolutely not.
Why not just sub the affected businesses directly with a grant. Or is it better to find some fatcat voucher management organisation to cream off 25% of taxpayers money?
Capitalism in the fiat world is a confidence trick. Money needs to circulate not just be granted to business to patch over the holes in their P&L / cashflow
Fiat or gold standard or any other model circulation is needed.
Circulation is the lifeblood of businesses - if it stops giving aid to one set of businesses will help them but will see the rest of the supply chain perish.
Seems Panelbase have cornered the market in Scotch polling.
If that poll was accurate (an absolute majority voting SNP in both constituency and list) then avoiding a referendum - or a Yes vote - are likely impossible.
There is simply no possible way to deny a vote if an absolute majority have voted SNP.
And don't be preposterous banging on about Salmond going on about "once in a generation" - Salmond is not leader and no Parliament can bind its successor, no leader can bind their successor. That's more than just a constitutional nicety its a fundamental principle of democracy.
Of course there is, not everyone voting SNP will be doing so to demand indyref2 (and 50% are not voting SNP on the list) and some will just be doing so to keep Sturgeon as FM.
Boris will block indyref2 whatever happens at Holyrood next year as per the Tory manifesto and the Tory majority at Westminster will ensure that.
However there is a long way to go yet and as Holyrood has PR it only needs the SNP to lose a few votes back to the Unionist parties and Sturgeon would not get a nationalist majority. We also remember how May's big leads in 2017 came to nought by polling day
Incidentally, I looked through that Epstein address book someone posted on here and was not that surprised to find that I knew personally a number of the people listed and even less surprised to find that I have investigated one, for alleged corruption of public officials.
Boring as it may seem I am rather more interested in how Epstein made - and kept - his money. He seems to have risen without trace.
The sorts of people who were friendly with Epstein are exactly the sorts of people you would *expect* to be friendly with him.
The odd thing is (going solely by his wikipedia entry) is that he lost huge amounts of money on numerous occasions. Perhaps his fortune was nowhere near what people thought it was.
Yes I read that. Would I like £1,500 to spend in the hospitality / independent retail sector? Absolutely. Would I spend £1,500 in them without the Rishi bonus? Absolutely not.
Why not just sub the affected businesses directly with a grant. Or is it better to find some fatcat voucher management organisation to cream off 25% of taxpayers money?
Capitalism in the fiat world is a confidence trick. Money needs to circulate not just be granted to business to patch over the holes in their P&L / cashflow
I always thought increasing M3 was inflationary and therefore bad.
I would be interested in any significant differences that will be obvious between Starmer's Labour and Davey Lib Dem 2024 election promises
I would expect the LibDems to have more on political reform, devolution and civil liberties than Labour, to be more financially prudent, to be more sceptical about Trident and foreign interventions, and I expect Labour will try to say as little about the EU as possible. The LibDems will probably be braver than Labour on issues such as moving the tax base from income to capital, and on decriminalising soft drugs. LibDems will probably give greater prominence to environmental policies. Labour will be bolder on spending pledges (esp NHS spending) and 'investment' in infrastructure, and, probably, on student finance.
Yes I read that. Would I like £1,500 to spend in the hospitality / independent retail sector? Absolutely. Would I spend £1,500 in them without the Rishi bonus? Absolutely not.
Why not just sub the affected businesses directly with a grant. Or is it better to find some fatcat voucher management organisation to cream off 25% of taxpayers money?
Capitalism in the fiat world is a confidence trick. Money needs to circulate not just be granted to business to patch over the holes in their P&L / cashflow
That's right. Sir Rishi's scheme means the money flows down the supply chain. Or at least trickles down.
Yes, the clamour for a December election by the LDs was somewhat odd and counter productive, but don't forget the real mastermind behind Johnson's stunning early victory was Jeremy Corbyn.
This is an old argument which never goes anywhere, but I completely disagree with this bit of conventional wisdom. The December election was a bad option, but better than the alternatives for the party.
Johnson's Brexit Withdrawal Bill passed at a 2nd reading, it was only the very short programme motion which was rejected. The Lib Dems had 3 options:
1. Block an election, see a longer programme motion be passed and then the bill be passed, have an election in early 2020 once Brexit was confirmed; 2. Block an election, see the bill be passed as #1, continue blocking elections (and everything else?) until 2022 or whenever opposition discipline broke down; or 3. Vote for an election taking place before the bill was passed and hope for a shock result like 2017 allowing a 2nd Ref coalition to form.
#3 is hella risky, but #1 and #2 are even worse. Both end the final chance to stop Brexit (which, whatever your views on it, was a key policy of the party) and there's no reason to believe the election would have gone worse for Johnson that 2019 did. Especially option #2, which would have been even more establishment vs the people's choice than we had!
Perhaps there was an option which I've missed, but I don't see how the Lib Dems could have delayed an election to a better time (which isn't to say December was a good time, but that things weren't going to get better if it was blocked for a while) or had a better chance to stop Brexit than an election (which, again, isn't to say December 2019 was a good chance to stop Brexit but it was a better chance than doing so after the Withdrawal Bill was passed!).
The opinion polls implied anything other than a decent Johnson victory was unlikely. The early election allowed Brexit to be done on Cummings term's. All the options for Remainers were bad, but I felt by hanging on longer something might have come up, which could have changed the dynamic, and it has.
It was the SNP that pulled off the real stunt, championing the election in what they knew were perfect circumstances for the Tories, taking the long view that a Tory majority was in the best interests of their strategic goal of independence. I doubt they explained this to the other opposition parties, who might usefully have worked it out for themselves.
Comments
Davey is by far the best, no baggage apart from the Coalition. Which most people don't care about anymore.
At least that's what I'd do.
So yes, I do want Davey to be One Nation. And to attract more people like Gymah and Allen and Umunna and Berger. Bring in sane people with ideas from both parties, ditch the ideological baggage and do what works. Tory voters are people too. Any party that wants to for a government has to win the support of currently Tory voters. It isn't some kind of negative mark to say so...
A lot of the voters he needs to win, quite liked the coalition.
“Groupthink” turns out to be something they deplore in others, but hugely admire in those who are part of their group and think the same way as they do. The Gang of Three are no keener to have senior officials who will challenge them than they are to have people in the cabinet who will argue with them.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/05/the-civil-service-is-right-to-be-paranoid-about-boris-johnsons-gang-of-three
Aren't most voters a coalition? This government has a thumping majority precisely because punters went blue for the first time ever. Within the space of 25 years we have seen all kinds of unlikely seats flip between various colours whether it be Labour winning unlikely southern places then the Tories unlikely northern ones. Some have been red yellow and blue in less than a decade. People are far more open to ideas and far less wedded to old habits or loyalties than they were.
Labour will say hes a tory who cannot be trusted, and the Tories will probably undermine him as two faced saying that he seemed content working with them for years but look at him now snuggling up to the reds.
I dont know how effective those attacks would be, but I don't think the LD membership has the stones to find out, and they are still wanting a clean break from that era to avoid it.
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Obviously, that last non sequitur should be no fewer importance. That's what happens when chap in charge went to Eton. That and being appointed by his chums to run things.
Oh, you meant someone else...
Edit - bugger, I forgot about the facial damage incurred when people like your posts. Sorry.
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The good news for both sides is their voters are no longer worried about having Corbyn as PM, therefore it's likely both do better anyway.
What are the chances the Lib Dems reclaim South West seats now Brexit is over?
It might be the last straw.
And the whole country would end up blue.
Then we are all goose.
(Is that enough berry puns for one morning?)
1. Daisy Cooper seriously considered a leadership campaign, and would have been taken seriously if she had. She is seen as a rising star;
2. Almost all Lib Dem seats are pretty marginal; and
3. The party definitely is in a bad place!
Do you not find it at all hubristic to think the Lib Dems want Labour to win?
They didn't oppose Cameron and now they tell us they didn't support him either. They aren't the party of leave and it seems not the party of remain. They were the party of a second referendum, until they weren't.
They aren't the party of supporting lockdown and they aren't the party of lifting it.
Of the top 50 LD target seats, 43 are held by the Tories and just 4 are held by Labour so the LDs need to pick a leader to appeal to Tory Remain voters in those seats at the next general election. Davey being on the liberal wing of the party would be better placed to do that than Moran who is on the more social democratic wing
http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/liberal-democrat
A shame, because I reckon Daisy could have offered something better to the voters. Time for the LibDems to be bold. Of course, they could still acknowledge they can get power at local level, drill down into that and become an avowedly local party - with no great interest in Westminster.
However, it must be in the interests of all parties to agree and make their arguments and accept the outcome
If Layla Moran had stood at the last leadership election I would probably have voted for her. She is more left wing than Ed Davey (and I'm very left wing) and she would be a fresh appealing face rather than a pale stale male. In the end I voted for Jo Swinson. Enough said.
My problem with Layla is that she has a problematic back story and is very "woke". There was the fight with her boyfriend over a power cable which ended up with with her being arrested and detained by the police. It could happen to anyone I suppose but showed a degree of recklessness. However she then ditched her boyfriend and has now gone pansexual with Rosy Cobb, former press officer for the LibDems who was fired for forging an email to cover a lie.
https://metro.co.uk/2020/01/03/pansexuality-mp-layla-moran-shares-new-partner-selfie-11994550/
This is just too risky for me. Furthermore I think she would lead the LibDems down a woke cul-de-sac when most people are concerned about jobs, health and education rather than TERF wars. I also don't think she would get on with Keir Starmer. Apart from that I'm reserving judgement!
Ed Davey is solid, safe and genial - not the most exciting person in the world I agree. But he has a good story on green energy, will get on well with Keir Starmer which is crucial, and it's four years until the next GE. Step by step we'll get out of our parlous state starting with the locals next year. It also looks as if Keir Starmer is warming towards STV. I liked Ed Davey's opinion piece in HuffPost.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/lib-dem-leadership_uk_5ef22378c5b601e59955a09d
At the last election the only policy that got traction was the disastrous revocation. They can go green - but both Labour and the Greens will be at least as green, and more so in the latter case. On tax and spend, they can be a bit redistributive - but Labour will also be, and the Tories may be forced to raise taxes. They can push the small 'l' liberal agenda, but I'm not sure that in the current climate there's too much mileage in that. They can be internationalist, but so will Starmer.
So I suspect they will be left with not that many voters - mainly those soft Tories who don't like this government but can't bring themselves to vote Labour. Even this number looks likely to dwindle under Starmer.
And finally, I don't rate either Davey or Moran particularly - not sure either have got the real leadership skills required. If I were a Lib Dem, I'd be a bit gloomy.
I’m not sure why anyone would think that doing something like this for charity could possibly be a bad thing, particularly if we are thinking about the people who put themselves up for sale.
2019 election. The one big upside is that from that decision, Corbyn is no more.
Boring as it may seem I am rather more interested in how Epstein made - and kept - his money. He seems to have risen without trace.
The Lib Dems are likely to remain fairly invisible until May 2021 when they can get good publicity from significant gains in the county council elections if they play the expectation management game right.
There is no way that LDs, Green or SNP would prop up a Johnson government though.
Johnson's Brexit Withdrawal Bill passed at a 2nd reading, it was only the very short programme motion which was rejected. The Lib Dems had 3 options:
1. Block an election, see a longer programme motion be passed and then the bill be passed, have an election in early 2020 once Brexit was confirmed;
2. Block an election, see the bill be passed as #1, continue blocking elections (and everything else?) until 2022 or whenever opposition discipline broke down; or
3. Vote for an election taking place before the bill was passed and hope for a shock result like 2017 allowing a 2nd Ref coalition to form.
#3 is hella risky, but #1 and #2 are even worse. Both end the final chance to stop Brexit (which, whatever your views on it, was a key policy of the party) and there's no reason to believe the election would have gone worse for Johnson that 2019 did. Especially option #2, which would have been even more establishment vs the people's choice than we had!
Perhaps there was an option which I've missed, but I don't see how the Lib Dems could have delayed an election to a better time (which isn't to say December was a good time, but that things weren't going to get better if it was blocked for a while) or had a better chance to stop Brexit than an election (which, again, isn't to say December 2019 was a good chance to stop Brexit but it was a better chance than doing so after the Withdrawal Bill was passed!).
I did it when I was at university. A girl in my Halls 'bought' me for 24 hours and I went to her lectures rather than my own for a day and took her notes for her mainly. Not the most interesting story to tell.
It was all considered fun and games and a way to raise money for good causes. I respect people of any stripe of creed who did that because putting yourself at the risk of embarrassment to raise money for good causes is a ritual a great many students have been through.
PS the one interesting thing I learnt attending the lectures of the person who "bought" me for the day was the etymology of the name Nottingham. From memory 'ingham' meaning "town of" and named after the chief who forms the first part of the name. The original name was Snottingham named after chief Snott so literally translates to "the town of Snott". That's always stuck in my memory afterwards.
5% swing for the Lib Dems to take another 15 seats - and would certainly make Labour's job easier. Any Lib Dem leader should be finding out what these seats want.
The issue for the Lib Dems is the public wanted to Get Brexit Done rather than say Bollocks to Brexit.
C'est la vie.
Again, I don't know your politics but I get what you're saying. It became absurd the way that Clegg ran the LD side in the coalition. LibDem MPs voted more loyally for the Tory bills than Tory MPs did. If Arlene Foster could make demands with menaces then Clegg should have learned to do the same.
Party rules would need changing since they currently require the leader be an MP (if we have any, I assume, but I've not read the rulebook myself), but I'd support that too.
Plus won't the Mayoral elections be then too? So the Lib Dems won't even be the secondary news story either.
Most LD target seats are vs Tories, so its fairly inevitable they will often be competing on similar policies.
Circulation is the lifeblood of businesses - if it stops giving aid to one set of businesses will help them but will see the rest of the supply chain perish.
Boris will block indyref2 whatever happens at Holyrood next year as per the Tory manifesto and the Tory majority at Westminster will ensure that.
However there is a long way to go yet and as Holyrood has PR it only needs the SNP to lose a few votes back to the Unionist parties and Sturgeon would not get a nationalist majority. We also remember how May's big leads in 2017 came to nought by polling day
The odd thing is (going solely by his wikipedia entry) is that he lost huge amounts of money on numerous occasions. Perhaps his fortune was nowhere near what people thought it was.
And he wanted to show what the LibDems could do in government.
Before the coalition there was a theory that if the LibDems could break the 'wasted vote' image they would get over 30% national support.
Very interesting