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  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MaxPB said:

    Trump is (hopefully) done. I'm starting to believe that they may try and remove him before November so that Pence has a clear run. I think Pence could probably win too.

    No, it just wouldn't work, Max. Trump isn't really a Republican and his devout supporters wouldn't just flop into the arms of the next man up. If Trump quit, a lot of them would just sit on their hands. Pence would lose as bigly as any other Republican candidate.

    The GOP did a deal with the devil to keep Hillary out of the White House. They can't unwind that deal now. It's possible that he will quit the ticket anyway but personally I don't think his vanity would permit it.
    I don't know, Pence specifically can cast himself as a Trump republican who doesn't have anywhere near the negatives of Trump. The reason that's important is the poll in the header, Biden is drawing the majority of his voters from not-Trump. The GOP need to thread the needle to have a not-Trump candidate who can keep the Trump supporters going to the polls. To me Pence is that guy. Closely associated enough to keep the candle lit for his supporters but just not Trump enough to peel away loads of those voters who aren't voting for Biden but against Trump.

    On him quitting, I don't know if he'd rather be seen as a quitter or a loser. A well timed health scare would be exactly the way out for him, that way he leaves undefeated held back by his health from glorious victory.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Scott_xP said:

    RobD said:

    So he's continuing with 2m then, until it is announced otherwise?

    It has been announced that he can't make up his mind
    It has been announced that there will be an announcement? As for changing his mind, isn't that what you do when you get new input?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    RobD said:

    As for changing his mind, isn't that what you do when you get new input?

    He hasn't changed his mind.

    That's the point of the cartoon
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Pulpstar said:

    Hopefully the 2 metre rule will be kept for supermarkets. It's not 100% adhered to but it's a good guide for expected behaviour for essential purchasing.
    Non essential retail, pubs, restaurants are definitely in the 'choice' retail/service so idk, maybe 1 metre for side side, 1.5 for forward-back ?

    A logical approach would be different for different scenarios, but the media would scream CONFUSION.....
    Based on logic, they surely wouldn’t. Based on typical Boris umming and erring, they probably would. Only Boris could muddle the launch of a “clear” five-point virus alertness scale and then say we would start at level three-and-a-half.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Scott_xP said:

    RobD said:

    As for changing his mind, isn't that what you do when you get new input?

    He hasn't changed his mind.

    That's the point of the cartoon
    So he's weighing up the decision before coming to a conclusion? Again, what's the problem.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Mr Johnson is also expected to announce a reduction in the 2m social distancing rule to 1m, with some mitigating measures.

    BBC News - Coronavirus: PM to announce on Tuesday if pubs can reopen
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53129845
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    New Yorker toon. What you expect?
    I’m afraid it’s not on my usual reading list.

    The Spectator often has fairly funny cartoons and my main reason for occasionally buying Private Eye are that they do too. Other than the Telegraph with Matt, I’m not sure who else does consistently: the ones in The New Statesman normally leave me cold for instance.
    It would be a strange person who bought the New Statesman for the cartoons TBF
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,354

    New Yorker toon. What you expect?
    I’m afraid it’s not on my usual reading list.

    The Spectator often has fairly funny cartoons and my main reason for occasionally buying Private Eye are that they do too. Other than the Telegraph with Matt, I’m not sure who else does consistently: the ones in The New Statesman normally leave me cold for instance.
    The New Yorker remains a brilliant publication but even they have cut back on the number of cartoons. I'm afraid the cartoon biz is in a severe recession and as a result there aren't many outstanding ones publishing regularly.

    I agree with you about Matt, but he's not really a political cartoonist. Steve Bell isn't to my taste. Martin Rowson is and I would rate him best of a poor bunch in the UK.

    In North America where the standard is much higher the work of Matt Wuerker is outstanding. I am a great fan of Roz Chast too but like Matt, she's not really a 'political'.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,191
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Trump is (hopefully) done. I'm starting to believe that they may try and remove him before November so that Pence has a clear run. I think Pence could probably win too.

    No, it just wouldn't work, Max. Trump isn't really a Republican and his devout supporters wouldn't just flop into the arms of the next man up. If Trump quit, a lot of them would just sit on their hands. Pence would lose as bigly as any other Republican candidate.

    The GOP did a deal with the devil to keep Hillary out of the White House. They can't unwind that deal now. It's possible that he will quit the ticket anyway but personally I don't think his vanity would permit it.
    I don't know, Pence specifically can cast himself as a Trump republican who doesn't have anywhere near the negatives of Trump. The reason that's important is the poll in the header, Biden is drawing the majority of his voters from not-Trump. The GOP need to thread the needle to have a not-Trump candidate who can keep the Trump supporters going to the polls. To me Pence is that guy. Closely associated enough to keep the candle lit for his supporters but just not Trump enough to peel away loads of those voters who aren't voting for Biden but against Trump.

    On him quitting, I don't know if he'd rather be seen as a quitter or a loser. A well timed health scare would be exactly the way out for him, that way he leaves undefeated held back by his health from glorious victory.
    Even worse, if Trump drops dead Pence might benefit from a sympathy vote. Pence would be a truly terrible president, possibly even worse than Trump in many ways.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    RobD said:

    So he's weighing up the decision before coming to a conclusion? Again, what's the problem.

    He is Hamlet.

    You can decide if that's a problem or not.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Scott_xP said:

    RobD said:

    So he's weighing up the decision before coming to a conclusion? Again, what's the problem.

    He is Hamlet.

    You can decide if that's a problem or not.
    Seems like a decision has been made, as per the BBC. ;)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    isam said:
    Telephone 111 was out of service at the end of last week, so figures may be atypical. Online was working throughout.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Health officials in South Korea believe the country is going through a second wave of coronavirus, despite recording relatively low numbers.

    BBC News - Coronavirus: South Korea confirms second wave of infections
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-53135626
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Sensible Republicans - of which there are some - should write off the 2016 presidential election and instead should work on two things:

    1. Ensuring the Trump Taint does as little damage as possible to the down-ticket elections, especially the Senate races, and

    2. Thinking long and hard about how the party can recover from disaster of nominating Trump in the first place. He's toxified the brand to a degree which is even greater than was obvious in 2016. It's not going to be easy to reverse that.

    Back in the real world, GOP senators are doing worse than Trump in many recent state polls.
    That's not at all surprising. A lot of Trump supporters are suspicious of their GOP Senators, and will not automatically vote for them.
    The whole reason Trump is president is because the "sensible Republicans" as Nabavi calls them are more toxic than he is. The idea you get rid of Trump and people will vote for GOP senators is for the birds.
    It probably doesn't do a huge amount with his base though, who have been suspicious of the Republican establishment. I think attacks like The Lincoln Project just reinforce that narrative for his supporters.


    Ps interesting polling from Michigan - new poll out has Biden only 1 point ahead. That is 2 polls recently with a +1/+2% lead for the Dems in Michigan whereas others have had double digit leads

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/mi/michigan_trump_vs_biden-6761.html

    Trafalgar was the only one to get Michigan right for Trump back in 2016

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statewide_opinion_polling_for_the_2016_United_States_presidential_election#Michigan
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    kamski said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Trump is (hopefully) done. I'm starting to believe that they may try and remove him before November so that Pence has a clear run. I think Pence could probably win too.

    No, it just wouldn't work, Max. Trump isn't really a Republican and his devout supporters wouldn't just flop into the arms of the next man up. If Trump quit, a lot of them would just sit on their hands. Pence would lose as bigly as any other Republican candidate.

    The GOP did a deal with the devil to keep Hillary out of the White House. They can't unwind that deal now. It's possible that he will quit the ticket anyway but personally I don't think his vanity would permit it.
    I don't know, Pence specifically can cast himself as a Trump republican who doesn't have anywhere near the negatives of Trump. The reason that's important is the poll in the header, Biden is drawing the majority of his voters from not-Trump. The GOP need to thread the needle to have a not-Trump candidate who can keep the Trump supporters going to the polls. To me Pence is that guy. Closely associated enough to keep the candle lit for his supporters but just not Trump enough to peel away loads of those voters who aren't voting for Biden but against Trump.

    On him quitting, I don't know if he'd rather be seen as a quitter or a loser. A well timed health scare would be exactly the way out for him, that way he leaves undefeated held back by his health from glorious victory.
    Even worse, if Trump drops dead Pence might benefit from a sympathy vote. Pence would be a truly terrible president, possibly even worse than Trump in many ways.
    Yes, Pence would be a terrifying POTUS. Trump is bad but essentially doesn't have the political capability to push through his policy agenda. Pence is worse and has years of political experience in pushing through horrible policies as Governor.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    kamski said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Trump is (hopefully) done. I'm starting to believe that they may try and remove him before November so that Pence has a clear run. I think Pence could probably win too.

    No, it just wouldn't work, Max. Trump isn't really a Republican and his devout supporters wouldn't just flop into the arms of the next man up. If Trump quit, a lot of them would just sit on their hands. Pence would lose as bigly as any other Republican candidate.

    The GOP did a deal with the devil to keep Hillary out of the White House. They can't unwind that deal now. It's possible that he will quit the ticket anyway but personally I don't think his vanity would permit it.
    I don't know, Pence specifically can cast himself as a Trump republican who doesn't have anywhere near the negatives of Trump. The reason that's important is the poll in the header, Biden is drawing the majority of his voters from not-Trump. The GOP need to thread the needle to have a not-Trump candidate who can keep the Trump supporters going to the polls. To me Pence is that guy. Closely associated enough to keep the candle lit for his supporters but just not Trump enough to peel away loads of those voters who aren't voting for Biden but against Trump.

    On him quitting, I don't know if he'd rather be seen as a quitter or a loser. A well timed health scare would be exactly the way out for him, that way he leaves undefeated held back by his health from glorious victory.
    Even worse, if Trump drops dead Pence might benefit from a sympathy vote. Pence would be a truly terrible president, possibly even worse than Trump in many ways.
    I can't see Trump quitting. The feedback I get from people who know him is that the number one thing he cares about is his legacy. He will want a second term and will claim that unnecessary scaremongering and the impeachment probe have stopped him doing all the things he had planned.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:
    That's effronté even by the lofty standards of la famille Johnson.
    To be fair, wasn't Stanley Johnson strongly Pr-Remain, and Rachel too? Indeed wasnt BoZo the one going against the rest of his family?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    MrEd said:

    I can't see Trump quitting. The feedback I get from people who know him is that the number one thing he cares about is his legacy.

    Asked upthread

    Does he wants his legacy to be "pounded like a dockside hooker" by the electorate?
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    MrEd said:

    Sensible Republicans - of which there are some - should write off the 2016 presidential election and instead should work on two things:

    1. Ensuring the Trump Taint does as little damage as possible to the down-ticket elections, especially the Senate races, and

    2. Thinking long and hard about how the party can recover from disaster of nominating Trump in the first place. He's toxified the brand to a degree which is even greater than was obvious in 2016. It's not going to be easy to reverse that.

    Back in the real world, GOP senators are doing worse than Trump in many recent state polls.
    That's not at all surprising. A lot of Trump supporters are suspicious of their GOP Senators, and will not automatically vote for them.
    The whole reason Trump is president is because the "sensible Republicans" as Nabavi calls them are more toxic than he is. The idea you get rid of Trump and people will vote for GOP senators is for the birds.
    It probably doesn't do a huge amount with his base though, who have been suspicious of the Republican establishment. I think attacks like The Lincoln Project just reinforce that narrative for his supporters.


    Ps interesting polling from Michigan - new poll out has Biden only 1 point ahead. That is 2 polls recently with a +1/+2% lead for the Dems in Michigan whereas others have had double digit leads

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/mi/michigan_trump_vs_biden-6761.html

    Trafalgar was the only one to get Michigan right for Trump back in 2016

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statewide_opinion_polling_for_the_2016_United_States_presidential_election#Michigan </blockquote

    Trump's chances for me depend on how quickly the US economy bounces back. If quickly, he is still in with a shot.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Scott_xP said:

    kle4 said:

    That doesnt work, until a review concludes differently he has chosen to continue 2m. Not making a different choice yet is choosing the status quo.

    He hasn't though.

    He is going to announce 1m plus, which is neither 1m nor 2m
    Crystal clear.

    Don't forget this is the government that

    a) told us there are five levels of threat for Covid-19; and that
    b) we were at that time on level 3.5.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,708
    Scott_xP said:

    MrEd said:

    I can't see Trump quitting. The feedback I get from people who know him is that the number one thing he cares about is his legacy.

    Asked upthread

    Does he wants his legacy to be "pounded like a dockside hooker" by the electorate?
    If he can't win, he can try to make sure there is a deluge to follow.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    MrEd said:

    kamski said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Trump is (hopefully) done. I'm starting to believe that they may try and remove him before November so that Pence has a clear run. I think Pence could probably win too.

    No, it just wouldn't work, Max. Trump isn't really a Republican and his devout supporters wouldn't just flop into the arms of the next man up. If Trump quit, a lot of them would just sit on their hands. Pence would lose as bigly as any other Republican candidate.

    The GOP did a deal with the devil to keep Hillary out of the White House. They can't unwind that deal now. It's possible that he will quit the ticket anyway but personally I don't think his vanity would permit it.
    I don't know, Pence specifically can cast himself as a Trump republican who doesn't have anywhere near the negatives of Trump. The reason that's important is the poll in the header, Biden is drawing the majority of his voters from not-Trump. The GOP need to thread the needle to have a not-Trump candidate who can keep the Trump supporters going to the polls. To me Pence is that guy. Closely associated enough to keep the candle lit for his supporters but just not Trump enough to peel away loads of those voters who aren't voting for Biden but against Trump.

    On him quitting, I don't know if he'd rather be seen as a quitter or a loser. A well timed health scare would be exactly the way out for him, that way he leaves undefeated held back by his health from glorious victory.
    Even worse, if Trump drops dead Pence might benefit from a sympathy vote. Pence would be a truly terrible president, possibly even worse than Trump in many ways.
    I can't see Trump quitting. The feedback I get from people who know him is that the number one thing he cares about is his legacy. He will want a second term and will claim that unnecessary scaremongering and the impeachment probe have stopped him doing all the things he had planned.
    Every politician cares about their legacy. Despite the odds in that profession being heavily stacked against them.

    The legacy of walking away on some “you don’t deserve me” pretext is however better than the legacy of rejection and humiliation at the ballot box.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:
    That's effronté even by the lofty standards of la famille Johnson.
    To be fair, wasn't Stanley Johnson strongly Pr-Remain, and Rachel too? Indeed wasnt BoZo the one going against the rest of his family?
    (pssst....Bozo was remain, in private)
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    The BBC are spending £100m on making their shows more diverse. How about starting with EastEnders?

    http://aboutasfarasdelgados.blogspot.com/2014/11/is-eastenders-more-racist-than.html?m=1
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    edited June 2020
    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:
    That's effronté even by the lofty standards of la famille Johnson.
    To be fair, wasn't Stanley Johnson strongly Pr-Remain, and Rachel too? Indeed wasnt BoZo the one going against the rest of his family?
    Imagine joining that lot at dinner. Stanley, Rachel, Boris. Blowharding away.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    RobD said:

    So he's continuing with 2m then, until it is announced otherwise?

    It has been announced that he can't make up his mind
    It has been announced that there will be an announcement? As for changing his mind, isn't that what you do when you get new input?
    Yes, you might get that from a logic processor, but also from a random number generator.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    edited June 2020
    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    RobD said:

    As for changing his mind, isn't that what you do when you get new input?

    He hasn't changed his mind.

    That's the point of the cartoon
    So he's weighing up the decision before coming to a conclusion? Again, what's the problem.
    He is indeed doing that. However, if you think that the issues he is weighing up have anything to do with public health or the economy then you are seriously deluded.

    He is simply looking for the action which will likely least bounce back badly on him personally whatever the outcome. Health and the economy are the very least of his considerations.

    That people don't realise this I find really puzzling.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    MrEd said:

    kamski said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Trump is (hopefully) done. I'm starting to believe that they may try and remove him before November so that Pence has a clear run. I think Pence could probably win too.

    No, it just wouldn't work, Max. Trump isn't really a Republican and his devout supporters wouldn't just flop into the arms of the next man up. If Trump quit, a lot of them would just sit on their hands. Pence would lose as bigly as any other Republican candidate.

    The GOP did a deal with the devil to keep Hillary out of the White House. They can't unwind that deal now. It's possible that he will quit the ticket anyway but personally I don't think his vanity would permit it.
    I don't know, Pence specifically can cast himself as a Trump republican who doesn't have anywhere near the negatives of Trump. The reason that's important is the poll in the header, Biden is drawing the majority of his voters from not-Trump. The GOP need to thread the needle to have a not-Trump candidate who can keep the Trump supporters going to the polls. To me Pence is that guy. Closely associated enough to keep the candle lit for his supporters but just not Trump enough to peel away loads of those voters who aren't voting for Biden but against Trump.

    On him quitting, I don't know if he'd rather be seen as a quitter or a loser. A well timed health scare would be exactly the way out for him, that way he leaves undefeated held back by his health from glorious victory.
    Even worse, if Trump drops dead Pence might benefit from a sympathy vote. Pence would be a truly terrible president, possibly even worse than Trump in many ways.
    I can't see Trump quitting. The feedback I get from people who know him is that the number one thing he cares about is his legacy. He will want a second term and will claim that unnecessary scaremongering and the impeachment probe have stopped him doing all the things he had planned.
    There's something we can agree on. I can't see him quitting either. He has a puncher's chance and therefore will want to stay in the ring.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Tennis should (The balls could be a vector but unlikely) be a non 'rona transmission sport. But no...

    This looks like a good shout for transmission of the 'rona.

    https://twitter.com/tumcarayol/status/1274975866263609345

    Hand to hand, then immediately hand to face.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,354
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:
    That's effronté even by the lofty standards of la famille Johnson.
    To be fair, wasn't Stanley Johnson strongly Pr-Remain, and Rachel too? Indeed wasnt BoZo the one going against the rest of his family?
    (pssst....Bozo was remain, in private)
    Not sure he 'believed' in either but he did posture as a Remain Mayor of London. I voted for him, only the second time in my life I have voted for a Conservative. Suffered buyer's remorse later, of course, but in my defence I have to point out the alternative was Ken Livingstone.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited June 2020
    Pulpstar said:

    Tennis should (The balls could be a vector but unlikely) be a non 'rona transmission sport. But no...

    This looks like a good shout for transmission of the 'rona.

    https://twitter.com/tumcarayol/status/1274975866263609345

    Hand to hand, then immediately hand to face.

    The golf over the weekend, so many fist bumps, standing close to one another, etc. The football, arsenal vs Brighton, all surrounding on another, pushing / pulling, screaming in each others faces.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    MrEd said:

    Sensible Republicans - of which there are some - should write off the 2016 presidential election and instead should work on two things:

    1. Ensuring the Trump Taint does as little damage as possible to the down-ticket elections, especially the Senate races, and

    2. Thinking long and hard about how the party can recover from disaster of nominating Trump in the first place. He's toxified the brand to a degree which is even greater than was obvious in 2016. It's not going to be easy to reverse that.

    Back in the real world, GOP senators are doing worse than Trump in many recent state polls.
    That's not at all surprising. A lot of Trump supporters are suspicious of their GOP Senators, and will not automatically vote for them.
    The whole reason Trump is president is because the "sensible Republicans" as Nabavi calls them are more toxic than he is. The idea you get rid of Trump and people will vote for GOP senators is for the birds.
    It probably doesn't do a huge amount with his base though, who have been suspicious of the Republican establishment. I think attacks like The Lincoln Project just reinforce that narrative for his supporters.


    Ps interesting polling from Michigan - new poll out has Biden only 1 point ahead. That is 2 polls recently with a +1/+2% lead for the Dems in Michigan whereas others have had double digit leads

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/mi/michigan_trump_vs_biden-6761.html

    Trafalgar was the only one to get Michigan right for Trump back in 2016

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statewide_opinion_polling_for_the_2016_United_States_presidential_election#Michigan
    They also called Nevada for Trump by 5 points.
  • SurreySurrey Posts: 190

    If Trump loses he either goes shouting 'rigged' and then spends the next four years trying to pull together some kind of militia to take over from a 'fraudulent' Biden. Or, he refuses to go saying the result was rigged and calls on his armed supporters to take the streets straight away.
    No man, no problem.

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    edited June 2020
    TOPPING said:

    Scott_xP said:

    kle4 said:

    That doesnt work, until a review concludes differently he has chosen to continue 2m. Not making a different choice yet is choosing the status quo.

    He hasn't though.

    He is going to announce 1m plus, which is neither 1m nor 2m
    Crystal clear.

    Don't forget this is the government that

    a) told us there are five levels of threat for Covid-19; and that
    b) we were at that time on level 3.5.
    I believe the crystal clear messaging of 'stay alert' adds immeasurably to the unambiguity of these statements.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    MaxPB said:

    Trump is (hopefully) done. I'm starting to believe that they may try and remove him before November so that Pence has a clear run. I think Pence could probably win too.

    No, it just wouldn't work, Max. Trump isn't really a Republican and his devout supporters wouldn't just flop into the arms of the next man up. If Trump quit, a lot of them would just sit on their hands. Pence would lose as bigly as any other Republican candidate.

    The GOP did a deal with the devil to keep Hillary out of the White House. They can't unwind that deal now. It's possible that he will quit the ticket anyway but personally I don't think his vanity would permit it.
    Win or lose, crying 'foul' is more Trump's style. If he quits he is a loser without an excuse.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205

    Pulpstar said:

    Tennis should (The balls could be a vector but unlikely) be a non 'rona transmission sport. But no...

    This looks like a good shout for transmission of the 'rona.

    https://twitter.com/tumcarayol/status/1274975866263609345

    Hand to hand, then immediately hand to face.

    The golf over the weekend, so many fist bumps, standing close to one another, etc. The football, arsenal vs Brighton, all surrounding on another, pushing / pulling, screaming in each others faces.
    You can't socially distance in football really though. Set pieces see to that. Golf and tennis are a different matter, you should be able to keep 2 metres apart - well unless there's a very specific sequence of drop shots in the tennis. But I can't remember the last time I saw a competitive match where players were bought within 2 metres of each other 'naturally' - only between points and at the end of the match, like this.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,354
    edited June 2020
    Alistair said:

    MrEd said:

    Sensible Republicans - of which there are some - should write off the 2016 presidential election and instead should work on two things:

    1. Ensuring the Trump Taint does as little damage as possible to the down-ticket elections, especially the Senate races, and

    2. Thinking long and hard about how the party can recover from disaster of nominating Trump in the first place. He's toxified the brand to a degree which is even greater than was obvious in 2016. It's not going to be easy to reverse that.

    Back in the real world, GOP senators are doing worse than Trump in many recent state polls.
    That's not at all surprising. A lot of Trump supporters are suspicious of their GOP Senators, and will not automatically vote for them.
    The whole reason Trump is president is because the "sensible Republicans" as Nabavi calls them are more toxic than he is. The idea you get rid of Trump and people will vote for GOP senators is for the birds.
    It probably doesn't do a huge amount with his base though, who have been suspicious of the Republican establishment. I think attacks like The Lincoln Project just reinforce that narrative for his supporters.


    Ps interesting polling from Michigan - new poll out has Biden only 1 point ahead. That is 2 polls recently with a +1/+2% lead for the Dems in Michigan whereas others have had double digit leads

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/mi/michigan_trump_vs_biden-6761.html

    Trafalgar was the only one to get Michigan right for Trump back in 2016

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statewide_opinion_polling_for_the_2016_United_States_presidential_election#Michigan
    They also called Nevada for Trump by 5 points.
    Trump's actually had a couple of half-decent polls recently - North Carolina and now Michigan. Admittedly there was a dreadful Minnesota poll in between but maybe there are some grounds for thinking BLM, the Seattle Anarchists and wilful destruction of statues have had some effect.

    He still needs to win over some independents. His core base is a rock-solid 40% but that doesn't get him over the line. The Economy is crucial, but that is linked to C-19 and unless he gets very lucky that doesn't look like being over by November.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    eadric said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Tennis should (The balls could be a vector but unlikely) be a non 'rona transmission sport. But no...

    This looks like a good shout for transmission of the 'rona.

    https://twitter.com/tumcarayol/status/1274975866263609345

    Hand to hand, then immediately hand to face.

    The golf over the weekend, so many fist bumps, standing close to one another, etc. The football, arsenal vs Brighton, all surrounding on another, pushing / pulling, screaming in each others faces.
    You can't socially distance in football really though. Set pieces see to that. Golf and tennis are a different matter, you should be able to keep 2 metres apart - well unless there's a very specific sequence of drop shots in the tennis. But I can't remember the last time I saw a competitive match where players were bought within 2 metres of each other 'naturally' - only between points and at the end of the match, like this.
    Rugby is completely screwed if we really try to impose social distance on sport
    It's sport specific. No godly reason to be within 2 metres of anyone (Other than your caddy maybe) in golf, a farcical nonsense in most team sports.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:
    That's effronté even by the lofty standards of la famille Johnson.
    To be fair, wasn't Stanley Johnson strongly Pr-Remain, and Rachel too? Indeed wasnt BoZo the one going against the rest of his family?
    (pssst....Bozo was remain, in private)
    Not sure he 'believed' in either but he did posture as a Remain Mayor of London. I voted for him, only the second time in my life I have voted for a Conservative. Suffered buyer's remorse later, of course, but in my defence I have to point out the alternative was Ken Livingstone.
    Voting Conservative is on my bucket list. I am not sure I'll achieve it mind you.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    Alistair said:

    MrEd said:

    Sensible Republicans - of which there are some - should write off the 2016 presidential election and instead should work on two things:

    1. Ensuring the Trump Taint does as little damage as possible to the down-ticket elections, especially the Senate races, and

    2. Thinking long and hard about how the party can recover from disaster of nominating Trump in the first place. He's toxified the brand to a degree which is even greater than was obvious in 2016. It's not going to be easy to reverse that.

    Back in the real world, GOP senators are doing worse than Trump in many recent state polls.
    That's not at all surprising. A lot of Trump supporters are suspicious of their GOP Senators, and will not automatically vote for them.
    The whole reason Trump is president is because the "sensible Republicans" as Nabavi calls them are more toxic than he is. The idea you get rid of Trump and people will vote for GOP senators is for the birds.
    It probably doesn't do a huge amount with his base though, who have been suspicious of the Republican establishment. I think attacks like The Lincoln Project just reinforce that narrative for his supporters.


    Ps interesting polling from Michigan - new poll out has Biden only 1 point ahead. That is 2 polls recently with a +1/+2% lead for the Dems in Michigan whereas others have had double digit leads

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/mi/michigan_trump_vs_biden-6761.html

    Trafalgar was the only one to get Michigan right for Trump back in 2016

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statewide_opinion_polling_for_the_2016_United_States_presidential_election#Michigan
    They also called Nevada for Trump by 5 points.
    Trump's actually had a couple of half-decent polls recently - North Carolina and now Michigan. Admittedly there was a dreadful Minnesota poll in between but maybe there are some grounds for thinking BLM, the Seattle Anarchists and wilful destruction of statues have had some effect.

    He still needs to win over some independents. His core base is a rock-solid 40% but that doesn't get him over the line. The Economy is crucial, but that is linked to C-19 and unless he gets very lucky that doesn't look like being over by November.
    It will be interesting if the UK vaccine works and it basically allows the US economy to go back to normal before November resulting in what will be the biggest boom the us economy has ever seen.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    The single bed away from the austere wall with a plug socket looks suspiciously like a hospital bed (And not his own) on Dimitrov's IG.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/CBtKr9dA7wa/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,354
    Pulpstar said:

    eadric said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Tennis should (The balls could be a vector but unlikely) be a non 'rona transmission sport. But no...

    This looks like a good shout for transmission of the 'rona.

    https://twitter.com/tumcarayol/status/1274975866263609345

    Hand to hand, then immediately hand to face.

    The golf over the weekend, so many fist bumps, standing close to one another, etc. The football, arsenal vs Brighton, all surrounding on another, pushing / pulling, screaming in each others faces.
    You can't socially distance in football really though. Set pieces see to that. Golf and tennis are a different matter, you should be able to keep 2 metres apart - well unless there's a very specific sequence of drop shots in the tennis. But I can't remember the last time I saw a competitive match where players were bought within 2 metres of each other 'naturally' - only between points and at the end of the match, like this.
    Rugby is completely screwed if we really try to impose social distance on sport
    It's sport specific. No godly reason to be within 2 metres of anyone (Other than your caddy maybe) in golf, a farcical nonsense in most team sports.
    Boxing is tricky. Maybe they could just snarl, and hurl abuse at each other.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,354
    MaxPB said:

    Alistair said:

    MrEd said:

    Sensible Republicans - of which there are some - should write off the 2016 presidential election and instead should work on two things:

    1. Ensuring the Trump Taint does as little damage as possible to the down-ticket elections, especially the Senate races, and

    2. Thinking long and hard about how the party can recover from disaster of nominating Trump in the first place. He's toxified the brand to a degree which is even greater than was obvious in 2016. It's not going to be easy to reverse that.

    Back in the real world, GOP senators are doing worse than Trump in many recent state polls.
    That's not at all surprising. A lot of Trump supporters are suspicious of their GOP Senators, and will not automatically vote for them.
    The whole reason Trump is president is because the "sensible Republicans" as Nabavi calls them are more toxic than he is. The idea you get rid of Trump and people will vote for GOP senators is for the birds.
    It probably doesn't do a huge amount with his base though, who have been suspicious of the Republican establishment. I think attacks like The Lincoln Project just reinforce that narrative for his supporters.


    Ps interesting polling from Michigan - new poll out has Biden only 1 point ahead. That is 2 polls recently with a +1/+2% lead for the Dems in Michigan whereas others have had double digit leads

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/mi/michigan_trump_vs_biden-6761.html

    Trafalgar was the only one to get Michigan right for Trump back in 2016

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statewide_opinion_polling_for_the_2016_United_States_presidential_election#Michigan
    They also called Nevada for Trump by 5 points.
    Trump's actually had a couple of half-decent polls recently - North Carolina and now Michigan. Admittedly there was a dreadful Minnesota poll in between but maybe there are some grounds for thinking BLM, the Seattle Anarchists and wilful destruction of statues have had some effect.

    He still needs to win over some independents. His core base is a rock-solid 40% but that doesn't get him over the line. The Economy is crucial, but that is linked to C-19 and unless he gets very lucky that doesn't look like being over by November.
    It will be interesting if the UK vaccine works and it basically allows the US economy to go back to normal before November resulting in what will be the biggest boom the us economy has ever seen.
    Yes. Trump is properly second favorite but it's not over yet.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413
    eadric said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Tennis should (The balls could be a vector but unlikely) be a non 'rona transmission sport. But no...

    This looks like a good shout for transmission of the 'rona.

    https://twitter.com/tumcarayol/status/1274975866263609345

    Hand to hand, then immediately hand to face.

    The golf over the weekend, so many fist bumps, standing close to one another, etc. The football, arsenal vs Brighton, all surrounding on another, pushing / pulling, screaming in each others faces.
    You can't socially distance in football really though. Set pieces see to that. Golf and tennis are a different matter, you should be able to keep 2 metres apart - well unless there's a very specific sequence of drop shots in the tennis. But I can't remember the last time I saw a competitive match where players were bought within 2 metres of each other 'naturally' - only between points and at the end of the match, like this.
    Rugby is completely screwed if we really try to impose social distance on sport
    League has restarted in Oz for 3 weeks now. No issues.
    Union seems a Corona paradise. Rolling mauls, rucks, lineouts.
    Plus 6 people crouching face to face painting all over each other as the ref takes a full 2 minutes to set a scrum.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    NHS England Hospital data out - 20
    Last 7 days - 17
    Yesterday - 3

    record low, even for a Monday, since March

    image
    image
    image
    image
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    edited June 2020
    eadric said:

    Heartbreaking article. We must do better on care homes if there is another wave.


    Why dementia and Covid are such a deadly combination
    Special report: Dementia and Alzheimer’s were the most common pre-existing conditions found among deaths involving coronavirus in April

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/body/dementia-covid-deadly-combination/

    Advanced dementia is horrendous. Covid19 is possibly the old man's friend, in that circumstance
    Dunno. In my own experience the fear and unexpressable misery of end stage dementia would be made considerably worse by the literally breathtaking agony of dying from Covid-19. It might be even more awful if relatives weren't able to be there (assuming the patient could still recognise them).
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:
    That's effronté even by the lofty standards of la famille Johnson.
    To be fair, wasn't Stanley Johnson strongly Pr-Remain, and Rachel too? Indeed wasnt BoZo the one going against the rest of his family?
    (pssst....Bozo was remain, in private)
    Not sure he 'believed' in either but he did posture as a Remain Mayor of London. I voted for him, only the second time in my life I have voted for a Conservative. Suffered buyer's remorse later, of course, but in my defence I have to point out the alternative was Ken Livingstone.
    Voting Conservative is on my bucket list. I am not sure I'll achieve it mind you.
    I did it once at a GE. Better sticking to incest and Morris dancing.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Pulpstar said:

    eadric said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Tennis should (The balls could be a vector but unlikely) be a non 'rona transmission sport. But no...

    This looks like a good shout for transmission of the 'rona.

    https://twitter.com/tumcarayol/status/1274975866263609345

    Hand to hand, then immediately hand to face.

    The golf over the weekend, so many fist bumps, standing close to one another, etc. The football, arsenal vs Brighton, all surrounding on another, pushing / pulling, screaming in each others faces.
    You can't socially distance in football really though. Set pieces see to that. Golf and tennis are a different matter, you should be able to keep 2 metres apart - well unless there's a very specific sequence of drop shots in the tennis. But I can't remember the last time I saw a competitive match where players were bought within 2 metres of each other 'naturally' - only between points and at the end of the match, like this.
    Rugby is completely screwed if we really try to impose social distance on sport
    It's sport specific. No godly reason to be within 2 metres of anyone (Other than your caddy maybe) in golf, a farcical nonsense in most team sports.
    Boxing is tricky. Maybe they could just snarl, and hurl abuse at each other.
    Ali made a career out of vastly reduced contact boxing.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139

    MrEd said:

    Sensible Republicans - of which there are some - should write off the 2016 presidential election and instead should work on two things:

    1. Ensuring the Trump Taint does as little damage as possible to the down-ticket elections, especially the Senate races, and

    2. Thinking long and hard about how the party can recover from disaster of nominating Trump in the first place. He's toxified the brand to a degree which is even greater than was obvious in 2016. It's not going to be easy to reverse that.

    Back in the real world, GOP senators are doing worse than Trump in many recent state polls.
    That's not at all surprising. A lot of Trump supporters are suspicious of their GOP Senators, and will not automatically vote for them.
    The whole reason Trump is president is because the "sensible Republicans" as Nabavi calls them are more toxic than he is. The idea you get rid of Trump and people will vote for GOP senators is for the birds.
    It probably doesn't do a huge amount with his base though, who have been suspicious of the Republican establishment. I think attacks like The Lincoln Project just reinforce that narrative for his supporters.


    Ps interesting polling from Michigan - new poll out has Biden only 1 point ahead. That is 2 polls recently with a +1/+2% lead for the Dems in Michigan whereas others have had double digit leads

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/mi/michigan_trump_vs_biden-6761.html

    Trafalgar was the only one to get Michigan right for Trump back in 2016

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statewide_opinion_polling_for_the_2016_United_States_presidential_election#Michigan
    Details here

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1275048515408998402?s=20
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    @Malmesbury almost a zero.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    edited June 2020
    Alistair said:

    Sensible Republicans - of which there are some - should write off the 2016 presidential election and instead should work on two things:

    1. Ensuring the Trump Taint does as little damage as possible to the down-ticket elections, especially the Senate races, and

    2. Thinking long and hard about how the party can recover from disaster of nominating Trump in the first place. He's toxified the brand to a degree which is even greater than was obvious in 2016. It's not going to be easy to reverse that.

    Trump is, in many cases, outpolling the Senate candidates.

    The GOP is in deep trouble.
    Indeed, for all his faults Trump won the biggest EC vote for the GOP since 1988 in 2016 and the highest voteshare amongst the white working class for the GOP since Reagan
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    Pulpstar said:

    eadric said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Tennis should (The balls could be a vector but unlikely) be a non 'rona transmission sport. But no...

    This looks like a good shout for transmission of the 'rona.

    https://twitter.com/tumcarayol/status/1274975866263609345

    Hand to hand, then immediately hand to face.

    The golf over the weekend, so many fist bumps, standing close to one another, etc. The football, arsenal vs Brighton, all surrounding on another, pushing / pulling, screaming in each others faces.
    You can't socially distance in football really though. Set pieces see to that. Golf and tennis are a different matter, you should be able to keep 2 metres apart - well unless there's a very specific sequence of drop shots in the tennis. But I can't remember the last time I saw a competitive match where players were bought within 2 metres of each other 'naturally' - only between points and at the end of the match, like this.
    Rugby is completely screwed if we really try to impose social distance on sport
    It's sport specific. No godly reason to be within 2 metres of anyone (Other than your caddy maybe) in golf, a farcical nonsense in most team sports.
    Boxing is tricky. Maybe they could just snarl, and hurl abuse at each other.
    Ali made a career out of vastly reduced contact boxing.
    Safe as houses.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQYeSXpC244
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    eadric said:

    Heartbreaking article. We must do better on care homes if there is another wave.


    Why dementia and Covid are such a deadly combination
    Special report: Dementia and Alzheimer’s were the most common pre-existing conditions found among deaths involving coronavirus in April

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/body/dementia-covid-deadly-combination/

    Advanced dementia is horrendous. Covid19 is possibly the old man's friend, in that circumstance
    Agreed. It can almost be seen as a solution to our culture's pusillanimous and cowardly response to death which leaves so many existing but not living. One can only pray that their self awareness has gone to the point that it is only their carers that are suffering.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:
    That's effronté even by the lofty standards of la famille Johnson.
    To be fair, wasn't Stanley Johnson strongly Pr-Remain, and Rachel too? Indeed wasnt BoZo the one going against the rest of his family?
    (pssst....Bozo was remain, in private)
    Not sure he 'believed' in either but he did posture as a Remain Mayor of London. I voted for him, only the second time in my life I have voted for a Conservative. Suffered buyer's remorse later, of course, but in my defence I have to point out the alternative was Ken Livingstone.
    Voting Conservative is on my bucket list. I am not sure I'll achieve it mind you.
    I did it once at a GE. Better sticking to incest and Morris dancing.
    At GE2017 I went into the polling booth with the intention of voting for Alun Cairns, as he and his office had been very helpful over a problem my autuistic son had encountered with the DVLA. By the time I'd left the booth I'd voted for Camilla Beaven.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    Scott_xP said:

    kle4 said:

    That doesnt work, until a review concludes differently he has chosen to continue 2m. Not making a different choice yet is choosing the status quo.

    He hasn't though.

    He is going to announce 1m plus, which is neither 1m nor 2m
    Then the argument he hasn't made up his mind is groundless, and if the argument is he must pick from two options I'd be interested why he is limited so.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    Scott_xP said:

    RobD said:

    So he's continuing with 2m then, until it is announced otherwise?

    It has been announced that he can't make up his mind
    You cannot make your mind up either it seems.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    eadric said:

    This is a brilliant essay, deconstructing Wokeness as a cult, and rightly so: because it is.

    https://newdiscourses.com/2020/06/cult-dynamics-wokeness/

    As the essay describes, it displays all the major characteristics of a cult, the only difference is that Wokeness is so much bigger than most cults, and therefore much more dangerous.

    In particular, Wokeness uses a concept - White Fragility - to reel people into the guilt by making them feel painfully guilty and inadequate, a crisis which can only be solved by joining the cult, accepting all its nostrums, and thereby gaining redemption. Which is what all successful cults do.

    ie White Fragility means you, as a white person, are racist. This racism, your racism, is systemic and invisible and does not have to be proved, it just exists. If you admit you are racist then of course you are evil, and the only way to save yourself is joining the Woke, and admitting sin. If you deny you are racist that is because you have White Fragility, and cannot see that you are racist, which makes you even MORE racist. So, again, you have to join the Woke to save yourself.

    It's fiendishly clever and seriously disturbing.

    Fuck em
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,354

    Pulpstar said:

    eadric said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Tennis should (The balls could be a vector but unlikely) be a non 'rona transmission sport. But no...

    This looks like a good shout for transmission of the 'rona.

    https://twitter.com/tumcarayol/status/1274975866263609345

    Hand to hand, then immediately hand to face.

    The golf over the weekend, so many fist bumps, standing close to one another, etc. The football, arsenal vs Brighton, all surrounding on another, pushing / pulling, screaming in each others faces.
    You can't socially distance in football really though. Set pieces see to that. Golf and tennis are a different matter, you should be able to keep 2 metres apart - well unless there's a very specific sequence of drop shots in the tennis. But I can't remember the last time I saw a competitive match where players were bought within 2 metres of each other 'naturally' - only between points and at the end of the match, like this.
    Rugby is completely screwed if we really try to impose social distance on sport
    It's sport specific. No godly reason to be within 2 metres of anyone (Other than your caddy maybe) in golf, a farcical nonsense in most team sports.
    Boxing is tricky. Maybe they could just snarl, and hurl abuse at each other.
    Ali made a career out of vastly reduced contact boxing.
    :smile: If you are thinking of the Liston bouts, take it from me....

    The first contest was for real but Liston, who was past his best and not in the greatest shape, realsied by the end of round three that he couldn't win. His corner prevailed on him to carry on until the sixth but then even they couldn't persuade him to get up off the stool. You can hardly blame him. Other good fighters took the same easy route out. Zora Foley, who would have been a good world champion in another era, put up a passably good show before throwing himself to the ground on receiving the first really solid contact.

    The second contest was thrown. The knockout 'punch' barely grazed Liston's chin. Ali was as surprised as anybody when his opponent hit the deck. Is remains unclear however whether the fix this was for the benefit of the Mafia, who controlled Liston, or The Muslim Brotherhood.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608
    dixiedean said:

    eadric said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Tennis should (The balls could be a vector but unlikely) be a non 'rona transmission sport. But no...

    This looks like a good shout for transmission of the 'rona.

    https://twitter.com/tumcarayol/status/1274975866263609345

    Hand to hand, then immediately hand to face.

    The golf over the weekend, so many fist bumps, standing close to one another, etc. The football, arsenal vs Brighton, all surrounding on another, pushing / pulling, screaming in each others faces.
    You can't socially distance in football really though. Set pieces see to that. Golf and tennis are a different matter, you should be able to keep 2 metres apart - well unless there's a very specific sequence of drop shots in the tennis. But I can't remember the last time I saw a competitive match where players were bought within 2 metres of each other 'naturally' - only between points and at the end of the match, like this.
    Rugby is completely screwed if we really try to impose social distance on sport
    League has restarted in Oz for 3 weeks now. No issues.
    Union seems a Corona paradise. Rolling mauls, rucks, lineouts.
    Plus 6 people crouching face to face painting all over each other as the ref takes a full 2 minutes to set a scrum.
    "painting all over each other"

    End of the woad?
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited June 2020
    eadric said:

    This is a brilliant essay, deconstructing Wokeness as a cult, and rightly so: because it is.

    https://newdiscourses.com/2020/06/cult-dynamics-wokeness/

    As the essay describes, it displays all the major characteristics of a cult, the only difference is that Wokeness is so much bigger than most cults, and therefore much more dangerous.

    In particular, Wokeness uses a concept - White Fragility - to reel people into the guilt by making them feel painfully guilty and inadequate, a crisis which can only be solved by joining the cult, accepting all its nostrums, and thereby gaining redemption. Which is what all successful cults do.

    ie White Fragility means you, as a white person, are racist. This racism, your racism, is systemic and invisible and does not have to be proved, it just exists. If you admit you are racist then of course you are evil, and the only way to save yourself is joining the Woke, and admitting sin. If you deny you are racist that is because you have White Fragility, and cannot see that you are racist, which makes you even MORE racist. So, again, you have to join the Woke to save yourself.

    It's fiendishly clever and seriously disturbing.

    It's really just medieval Catholicism for those who find transubstantiation too esoteric and literal inquisitions too gory...

    It's also proof that a large chunk of the human race - however secular and rational they may pretend they are - simply cannot cope with the existential angst of having to rely on their own critical faculties and must instead outsource them to a transcendent moral authority that will take the awful pain of thinking away...
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,354
    edited June 2020
    eadric said:

    DavidL said:

    eadric said:

    Heartbreaking article. We must do better on care homes if there is another wave.


    Why dementia and Covid are such a deadly combination
    Special report: Dementia and Alzheimer’s were the most common pre-existing conditions found among deaths involving coronavirus in April

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/body/dementia-covid-deadly-combination/

    Advanced dementia is horrendous. Covid19 is possibly the old man's friend, in that circumstance
    Agreed. It can almost be seen as a solution to our culture's pusillanimous and cowardly response to death which leaves so many existing but not living. One can only pray that their self awareness has gone to the point that it is only their carers that are suffering.
    The worst kind of dementia is when it is aggressively advanced, yet the sufferer still has moments of lucidity. The existential terror of those glimpses must be horrific: to sense your own personality dissolving.

    I think I'd rather drown in my own lung fluids, than drown in my own madness, but I'd rather have a whacking great lethal dose of heroin and cocaine before either occurrence.
    For what is worth I can tell you dementia runs strongly through the female side of my family and I have seen its effects at close quarters several times. It is the carers rather than the patient that suffer. The 'glimpses' you refer to become negligible; self-awareness becomes virtually non-existent.

    And on that cheerful note I must be off. There is more to life than PB; not always a lot more but.....

    C ya folks.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    NHS England Hospital data out - 20
    Last 7 days - 17
    Yesterday - 3

    record low, even for a Monday, since March

    image
    image
    image
    image

    Good news.

    Thinking of going to an actual shop for the first time since March at some point soon.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    eadric said:

    This is a brilliant essay, deconstructing Wokeness as a cult, and rightly so: because it is.

    https://newdiscourses.com/2020/06/cult-dynamics-wokeness/

    As the essay describes, it displays all the major characteristics of a cult, the only difference is that Wokeness is so much bigger than most cults, and therefore much more dangerous.

    In particular, Wokeness uses a concept - White Fragility - to reel people into the guilt by making them feel painfully guilty and inadequate, a crisis which can only be solved by joining the cult, accepting all its nostrums, and thereby gaining redemption. Which is what all successful cults do.

    ie White Fragility means you, as a white person, are racist. This racism, your racism, is systemic and invisible and does not have to be proved, it just exists. If you admit you are racist then of course you are evil, and the only way to save yourself is joining the Woke, and admitting sin. If you deny you are racist that is because you have White Fragility, and cannot see that you are racist, which makes you even MORE racist. So, again, you have to join the Woke to save yourself.

    It's fiendishly clever and seriously disturbing.

    Yes but almost all the white people concerned who go full Woke are Labour or Democrat voters anyway
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    twitter.com/Adamstoon1/status/1275025674475102214

    Does he ever manage to do a funny cartoon?
    All these people complaining about the time he’s taking to review the data and make a decision... would they rather he went with his gut feel?
    He will anyway Charles, as if there is one thing Johnson’s career demonstrates with brutal clarity it is that he can not grasp detail.
    Sure. But that's not what they are complaining about right now.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    eadric said:

    DavidL said:

    eadric said:

    Heartbreaking article. We must do better on care homes if there is another wave.


    Why dementia and Covid are such a deadly combination
    Special report: Dementia and Alzheimer’s were the most common pre-existing conditions found among deaths involving coronavirus in April

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/body/dementia-covid-deadly-combination/

    Advanced dementia is horrendous. Covid19 is possibly the old man's friend, in that circumstance
    Agreed. It can almost be seen as a solution to our culture's pusillanimous and cowardly response to death which leaves so many existing but not living. One can only pray that their self awareness has gone to the point that it is only their carers that are suffering.
    The worst kind of dementia is when it is aggressively advanced, yet the sufferer still has moments of lucidity. The existential terror of those glimpses must be horrific: to sense your own personality dissolving.

    I think I'd rather drown in my own lung fluids, than drown in my own madness, but I'd rather have a whacking great lethal dose of heroin and cocaine before either occurrence.
    A lot of people with dementia are quite cheerful, and enjoy life certainly my late grandmother and still living Mother in Law do.

    When I visited my grandmother in her nursing home in Cheshire some years ago, she was in great spirits. Indeed she told me she was having a great time, and it was a pity she had to go home next week. On delicate probing, it seemed that she thought she was on holiday, and the nursing home a hotel. I see this amiable muddleheadedness amongst a number of my patients.

    Of course, it can be distressing too.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    HYUFD said:

    MrEd said:

    Sensible Republicans - of which there are some - should write off the 2016 presidential election and instead should work on two things:

    1. Ensuring the Trump Taint does as little damage as possible to the down-ticket elections, especially the Senate races, and

    2. Thinking long and hard about how the party can recover from disaster of nominating Trump in the first place. He's toxified the brand to a degree which is even greater than was obvious in 2016. It's not going to be easy to reverse that.

    Back in the real world, GOP senators are doing worse than Trump in many recent state polls.
    That's not at all surprising. A lot of Trump supporters are suspicious of their GOP Senators, and will not automatically vote for them.
    The whole reason Trump is president is because the "sensible Republicans" as Nabavi calls them are more toxic than he is. The idea you get rid of Trump and people will vote for GOP senators is for the birds.
    It probably doesn't do a huge amount with his base though, who have been suspicious of the Republican establishment. I think attacks like The Lincoln Project just reinforce that narrative for his supporters.


    Ps interesting polling from Michigan - new poll out has Biden only 1 point ahead. That is 2 polls recently with a +1/+2% lead for the Dems in Michigan whereas others have had double digit leads

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/mi/michigan_trump_vs_biden-6761.html

    Trafalgar was the only one to get Michigan right for Trump back in 2016

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statewide_opinion_polling_for_the_2016_United_States_presidential_election#Michigan
    Details here

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1275048515408998402?s=20
    Why Trafalgar group was the most accurate pollster in 2016 and 2018 and may be again

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2018/11/10/pollster_who_got_it_right_in_2016_does_it_again_138621.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true
  • Oh so the terrorist might actually be a Christian then? Oh dear, racists on suicide watch
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,298

    New Yorker toon. What you expect?
    I’m afraid it’s not on my usual reading list.

    The Spectator often has fairly funny cartoons and my main reason for occasionally buying Private Eye are that they do too. Other than the Telegraph with Matt, I’m not sure who else does consistently: the ones in The New Statesman normally leave me cold for instance.
    The New Yorker remains a brilliant publication but even they have cut back on the number of cartoons. I'm afraid the cartoon biz is in a severe recession and as a result there aren't many outstanding ones publishing regularly.

    I agree with you about Matt, but he's not really a political cartoonist. Steve Bell isn't to my taste. Martin Rowson is and I would rate him best of a poor bunch in the UK.

    In North America where the standard is much higher the work of Matt Wuerker is outstanding. I am a great fan of Roz Chast too but like Matt, she's not really a 'political'.
    What makes a good political cartoon?
    Humour? Appreciated by al points on political spectrum?
    Makes you think about something in a new way?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    The desire to portray anti-racism as a "cult" indicates to me how deep seated racism is.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    Oh so the terrorist might actually be a Christian then? Oh dear, racists on suicide watch

    Hence the mental health issues...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    eadric said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Tennis should (The balls could be a vector but unlikely) be a non 'rona transmission sport. But no...

    This looks like a good shout for transmission of the 'rona.

    https://twitter.com/tumcarayol/status/1274975866263609345

    Hand to hand, then immediately hand to face.

    The golf over the weekend, so many fist bumps, standing close to one another, etc. The football, arsenal vs Brighton, all surrounding on another, pushing / pulling, screaming in each others faces.
    You can't socially distance in football really though. Set pieces see to that. Golf and tennis are a different matter, you should be able to keep 2 metres apart - well unless there's a very specific sequence of drop shots in the tennis. But I can't remember the last time I saw a competitive match where players were bought within 2 metres of each other 'naturally' - only between points and at the end of the match, like this.
    Rugby is completely screwed if we really try to impose social distance on sport
    One could operate a rugby league style restart after an infringement. It might encourage a running three quarterline. You know the sort of thing: Edwards to Bennett, Bennett to JJ, back to Bennett, to Gareth who scores under the posts. Much better than the current 'collision' rugby nonsense. Oh and touch-rugby tap "tackling". It would be more of a spectacle too!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    twitter.com/Adamstoon1/status/1275025674475102214

    Does he ever manage to do a funny cartoon?
    All these people complaining about the time he’s taking to review the data and make a decision... would they rather he went with his gut feel?
    He will anyway Charles, as if there is one thing Johnson’s career demonstrates with brutal clarity it is that he can not grasp detail.
    Sure. But that's not what they are complaining about right now.
    They are stuck.

    If they express an opinion, this might involve expressing an opinion that matches what Johnson says.

    They would rather die.
  • tlg86 said:

    Oh so the terrorist might actually be a Christian then? Oh dear, racists on suicide watch

    Hence the mental health issues...
    No it's just that his religious background will now be irrelevant as he's not of the Islamic faith.

    I am sure those here won't point out their mistake
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    eadric said:

    This is a brilliant essay, deconstructing Wokeness as a cult, and rightly so: because it is.

    https://newdiscourses.com/2020/06/cult-dynamics-wokeness/

    As the essay describes, it displays all the major characteristics of a cult, the only difference is that Wokeness is so much bigger than most cults, and therefore much more dangerous.

    In particular, Wokeness uses a concept - White Fragility - to reel people into the guilt by making them feel painfully guilty and inadequate, a crisis which can only be solved by joining the cult, accepting all its nostrums, and thereby gaining redemption. Which is what all successful cults do.

    ie White Fragility means you, as a white person, are racist. This racism, your racism, is systemic and invisible and does not have to be proved, it just exists. If you admit you are racist then of course you are evil, and the only way to save yourself is joining the Woke, and admitting sin. If you deny you are racist that is because you have White Fragility, and cannot see that you are racist, which makes you even MORE racist. So, again, you have to join the Woke to save yourself.

    It's fiendishly clever and seriously disturbing.

    Chapo Trap House recently critiqued White Fragility from a leftist materialist perspective. They focus on the background of the author as somebody who is paid by large corporations to come and give implicit bias training, which (they claim) the evidence shows is ineffective, and say the true reason for it is to reduce the corporation's liability, and to potentially provide ammunition if they want to fire people. They talk about how the book is essentially a sales pitch to affluent liberals to keep paying for courses like the author's as a kind of temporary absolution- a bitter medicine that you know works because it's painful, but ultimately doesn't actually do anything to help minorities. They say that on the contrary, real anti-racist work that actually helps people should feel good.

    I found it a lot more convincing than your hysteria.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    twitter.com/Adamstoon1/status/1275025674475102214

    Does he ever manage to do a funny cartoon?
    All these people complaining about the time he’s taking to review the data and make a decision... would they rather he went with his gut feel?
    He will anyway Charles, as if there is one thing Johnson’s career demonstrates with brutal clarity it is that he can not grasp detail.
    One of the things I've wondered is whether May would have handled COVID better - details she does, and her cabinet was on average better than the current one - despite a well justified reputation for caution she could be decisive in emergencies - for example, Salisbury. We'll never know, but I sometimes wonder if her more scientific background might have resulted in more robust probing of the scientific advice - especially "the populace won't wear a lockdown" and "no point in closing the borders/quarantining arrivals".
    The problem with May, very slow to make decision and when made it will stick to it rigidly. Very Gordo. In this fast moving situation, you need to be smart and flexible.

    Cameron would have been the better. Despite the reputation for liking a chillax, he was always on top of his red box.
    Agree on Cameron; he could also do the "Father of the Nation make it all better" thing convincingly, which people needed in March.

    However, any alternative PM would have had to big advantages over BoJo. One is being around, physically and mentally in late February. That's when the decisions ought to have been taken; after that the UK was always going to be in catch up mode.

    The other is that Boris's biases- especially to libertarianism and optimism- led him up the garden path in this case. Even if he was following duff advice, the fact that it matched his prejudices must have affected his willingness to ask some pretty obvious questions.
    We tried a pessimistic and authoritarian PM and people didn't like her
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608
    After the recent changes allowing couples to have overnight stays, there might now be more cases of the clap than Covid.....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    MrEd said:

    Sensible Republicans - of which there are some - should write off the 2016 presidential election and instead should work on two things:

    1. Ensuring the Trump Taint does as little damage as possible to the down-ticket elections, especially the Senate races, and

    2. Thinking long and hard about how the party can recover from disaster of nominating Trump in the first place. He's toxified the brand to a degree which is even greater than was obvious in 2016. It's not going to be easy to reverse that.

    Back in the real world, GOP senators are doing worse than Trump in many recent state polls.
    That's not at all surprising. A lot of Trump supporters are suspicious of their GOP Senators, and will not automatically vote for them.
    The whole reason Trump is president is because the "sensible Republicans" as Nabavi calls them are more toxic than he is. The idea you get rid of Trump and people will vote for GOP senators is for the birds.
    It probably doesn't do a huge amount with his base though, who have been suspicious of the Republican establishment. I think attacks like The Lincoln Project just reinforce that narrative for his supporters.


    Ps interesting polling from Michigan - new poll out has Biden only 1 point ahead. That is 2 polls recently with a +1/+2% lead for the Dems in Michigan whereas others have had double digit leads

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/mi/michigan_trump_vs_biden-6761.html

    Trafalgar was the only one to get Michigan right for Trump back in 2016

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statewide_opinion_polling_for_the_2016_United_States_presidential_election#Michigan
    Details here

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1275048515408998402?s=20
    Why Trafalgar group was the most accurate pollster in 2016 and 2018 and may be again

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2018/11/10/pollster_who_got_it_right_in_2016_does_it_again_138621.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true
    Lots of good odds if you believe the Trump rampers.

    To me it looks like a Dem landslide, but 5 months to go. US elections seem perpetual, with little governing to separate campaigns...
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    After the recent changes allowing couples to have overnight stays, there might now be more cases of the clap than Covid.....
    It would be interesting to see the numbers on STIs in recent months - they must have fallen off a cliff.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    edited June 2020

    Oh so the terrorist might actually be a Christian then? Oh dear, racists on suicide watch

    He seems to have been quite ecumenical in his beliefs -

    "He allegedly claimed to have fought both for and against ISIS, though officials assessing him found he didn't subscribe to any ideology or belief system and instead had mental health issues."

    To be fair, ISIS is a bit of love/hate thing - https://archer.fandom.com/wiki/ISIS
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Foxy said:

    eadric said:

    DavidL said:

    eadric said:

    Heartbreaking article. We must do better on care homes if there is another wave.


    Why dementia and Covid are such a deadly combination
    Special report: Dementia and Alzheimer’s were the most common pre-existing conditions found among deaths involving coronavirus in April

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/body/dementia-covid-deadly-combination/

    Advanced dementia is horrendous. Covid19 is possibly the old man's friend, in that circumstance
    Agreed. It can almost be seen as a solution to our culture's pusillanimous and cowardly response to death which leaves so many existing but not living. One can only pray that their self awareness has gone to the point that it is only their carers that are suffering.
    The worst kind of dementia is when it is aggressively advanced, yet the sufferer still has moments of lucidity. The existential terror of those glimpses must be horrific: to sense your own personality dissolving.

    I think I'd rather drown in my own lung fluids, than drown in my own madness, but I'd rather have a whacking great lethal dose of heroin and cocaine before either occurrence.
    A lot of people with dementia are quite cheerful, and enjoy life certainly my late grandmother and still living Mother in Law do.

    When I visited my grandmother in her nursing home in Cheshire some years ago, she was in great spirits. Indeed she told me she was having a great time, and it was a pity she had to go home next week. On delicate probing, it seemed that she thought she was on holiday, and the nursing home a hotel. I see this amiable muddleheadedness amongst a number of my patients.

    Of course, it can be distressing too.
    Would you expect there to be a link between this "amiable" dementia and beforehand being in possession of a sunny rather than dark disposition?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    After the recent changes allowing couples to have overnight stays, there might now be more cases of the clap than Covid.....
    ...a round of applause please!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    edited June 2020
    This confirms Wales sent 1,000+ patients direct into care homes without tests reflecting the same policy at the beginning of the crisis in England, Scotland and Ireland

    It looks as the CMO,s of the PH bodies in England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland will have questions to answer

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53138843?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/wales&link_location=live-reporting-story
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    Grifty McGriftface doing what he does best.

    https://twitter.com/PeatWorrier/status/1274979493355151360?s=20
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608

    Pulpstar said:

    eadric said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Tennis should (The balls could be a vector but unlikely) be a non 'rona transmission sport. But no...

    This looks like a good shout for transmission of the 'rona.

    https://twitter.com/tumcarayol/status/1274975866263609345

    Hand to hand, then immediately hand to face.

    The golf over the weekend, so many fist bumps, standing close to one another, etc. The football, arsenal vs Brighton, all surrounding on another, pushing / pulling, screaming in each others faces.
    You can't socially distance in football really though. Set pieces see to that. Golf and tennis are a different matter, you should be able to keep 2 metres apart - well unless there's a very specific sequence of drop shots in the tennis. But I can't remember the last time I saw a competitive match where players were bought within 2 metres of each other 'naturally' - only between points and at the end of the match, like this.
    Rugby is completely screwed if we really try to impose social distance on sport
    It's sport specific. No godly reason to be within 2 metres of anyone (Other than your caddy maybe) in golf, a farcical nonsense in most team sports.
    Boxing is tricky. Maybe they could just snarl, and hurl abuse at each other.
    More chance of proper punches being traded at the weigh-in.....
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    kinabalu said:

    The desire to portray anti-racism as a "cult" indicates to me how deep seated racism is.

    Calling something a cult is essentially an admission that you don't have any real coherent critique of it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited June 2020
    The terrorist suspect in Reading genuinely sounds like a very messed up individual. In past 18 months, tried to stab a security guard with a broken bottle, tried to blow up his own flat, and chucked a telly out the window.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    eadric said:

    kinabalu said:

    The desire to portray anti-racism as a "cult" indicates to me how deep seated racism is.

    lol. QED
    If you are against our form of 'anti-racism' you are by definition a racist. If you are ambivalent you are a racist. Non-committal = racist. demurring on some points = racist.

    And even if you agree completely with our doctrine, if you are white you are still a racist. Because you can NEVER UNDERSTAND.

    Orwell would be proud. He really would
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    The terrorist suspect in Reading genuinely sounds like a very messed up individual. In past 18 months, tried to stab a security guard with a broken bottle, tried to blow up his own flat, and chucked a telly out the window.

    More nutter than terrorist.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    This is a brilliant essay, deconstructing Wokeness as a cult, and rightly so: because it is.

    https://newdiscourses.com/2020/06/cult-dynamics-wokeness/

    As the essay describes, it displays all the major characteristics of a cult, the only difference is that Wokeness is so much bigger than most cults, and therefore much more dangerous.

    In particular, Wokeness uses a concept - White Fragility - to reel people into the guilt by making them feel painfully guilty and inadequate, a crisis which can only be solved by joining the cult, accepting all its nostrums, and thereby gaining redemption. Which is what all successful cults do.

    ie White Fragility means you, as a white person, are racist. This racism, your racism, is systemic and invisible and does not have to be proved, it just exists. If you admit you are racist then of course you are evil, and the only way to save yourself is joining the Woke, and admitting sin. If you deny you are racist that is because you have White Fragility, and cannot see that you are racist, which makes you even MORE racist. So, again, you have to join the Woke to save yourself.

    It's fiendishly clever and seriously disturbing.

    Yes but almost all the white people concerned who go full Woke are Labour or Democrat voters anyway
    Which on the face of it is odd if it's a cult.

    If it's about activist anti-racism however ...
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    kinabalu said:

    The desire to portray anti-racism as a "cult" indicates to me how deep seated racism is.


    Are you saying it's impossible to have a movement that argues for members of all ethnic groups to treat one another with respect and dignity without having to subscribe to all the monument-destruction, 'White Fragility', foot-washing, language-rewriting, Marxism, cultishness, inherited guilt, reparations-for-ancient-sins bollocks?

    Because the former would get close to 99% public support, and could achieve real, tangible progress. It's the latter accretions that turn a good, even inspirational movement into a sinister culture war that otherwise fair-minded people will be driven to resist.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,354
    rkrkrk said:

    New Yorker toon. What you expect?
    I’m afraid it’s not on my usual reading list.

    The Spectator often has fairly funny cartoons and my main reason for occasionally buying Private Eye are that they do too. Other than the Telegraph with Matt, I’m not sure who else does consistently: the ones in The New Statesman normally leave me cold for instance.
    The New Yorker remains a brilliant publication but even they have cut back on the number of cartoons. I'm afraid the cartoon biz is in a severe recession and as a result there aren't many outstanding ones publishing regularly.

    I agree with you about Matt, but he's not really a political cartoonist. Steve Bell isn't to my taste. Martin Rowson is and I would rate him best of a poor bunch in the UK.

    In North America where the standard is much higher the work of Matt Wuerker is outstanding. I am a great fan of Roz Chast too but like Matt, she's not really a 'political'.
    What makes a good political cartoon?
    Humour? Appreciated by al points on political spectrum?
    Makes you think about something in a new way?
    Truth.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    The terrorist suspect in Reading genuinely sounds like a very messed up individual. In past 18 months, tried to stab a security guard with a broken bottle, tried to blow up his own flat, and chucked a telly out the window.

    Which famous rock band is he in again?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    This confirms Wales sent 1,000 patients direct into care homes without tests reflecting the same policy at the beginning of the crisis in England, Scotland and Ireland

    It looks as the CMO,s of the PH bodies in England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland will have questions to answer

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53138843?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/wales&link_location=live-reporting-story

    Indeed. On, I think, his first press conference back, Boris did allude to the Covid-19 care home scandals in Wales and Scotland. I think we'll get enquiries too in Wales and Scotland. I doubt England will get one, but extrapolation from the Welsh and Scottish enquiries could be applied anyway.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited June 2020
    RobD said:

    The terrorist suspect in Reading genuinely sounds like a very messed up individual. In past 18 months, tried to stab a security guard with a broken bottle, tried to blow up his own flat, and chucked a telly out the window.

    More nutter than terrorist.
    It does sound a bit like that. Previous incidents, the individual has normally progressed from small time criminal to religious zealot to violent terrorist.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    edited June 2020
    eadric said:

    Oh so the terrorist might actually be a Christian then? Oh dear, racists on suicide watch

    He seems to have been quite ecumenical in his beliefs -

    "He allegedly claimed to have fought both for and against ISIS, though officials assessing him found he didn't subscribe to any ideology or belief system and instead had mental health issues."

    To be fair, ISIS is a bit of love/hate thing - https://archer.fandom.com/wiki/ISIS
    He'd have to be quite an unusual Christian if he has fought FOR ISIS, seeing as ISIS made a big thing of beheading and butchering.... < checks notes > any Christians they could find.
    I'd imagine not having done any fighting for anyone would be more likely. It may come as a shock to you but there are blowhards out there who make up all sorts of shit to draw attention to themselves.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102

    This confirms Wales sent 1,000 patients direct into care homes without tests reflecting the same policy at the beginning of the crisis in England, Scotland and Ireland

    It looks as the CMO,s of the PH bodies in England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland will have questions to answer

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53138843?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/wales&link_location=live-reporting-story

    Indeed. On, I think, his first press conference back, Boris did allude to the Covid-19 care home scandals in Wales and Scotland. I think we'll get enquiries too in Wales and Scotland. I doubt England will get one, but extrapolation from the Welsh and Scottish enquiries could be applied anyway.
    I would expect a public enquiry directed at the whole nation to be honest, but it is unlikely to conclude for several years

    The important lesson for the whole country is there to see in the event of a second wave.

This discussion has been closed.