I have my own set of views, I'm anti-monarchy, pro a larger state, high investment, etc. But I accept the former is very unpopular, so no tears lost in keeping that one quiet.
I'd like to see a lot of things nationalised ideally but I get in reality its not workable or wanted. Railways enough for me, because I use them.
It's broadband I'd like to see major investment into - but perhaps into a co-operative or some kind of independent Government financed business.
I have my own set of views, I'm anti-monarchy, pro a larger state, high investment, etc. But I accept the former is very unpopular, so no tears lost in keeping that one quiet.
I'd like to see a lot of things nationalised ideally but I get in reality its not workable or wanted. Railways enough for me, because I use them.
It's broadband I'd like to see major investment into - but perhaps into a co-operative or some kind of independent Government financed business.
Being anti Monarchy is not a particularly rare view on this site to be fair.
Indeed several PB rightwingers are republicans - but PB always has been a bit niche.
Nobody could have foreseen the NHS app being a disaster...except anyone who worked in software engineering and had any knowledge of iOS development.
So a lot of people then.
But don't worry, we've got "expert" Dido Harding on the case now. What are her credentials?
Her credentials are very good indeed. From the Repository of All Knowledge:
On graduation she joined the management consultancy McKinsey & Company.[9] She went on to work at Kingfisher and Thomas Cook, and then held a variety of senior roles at Tesco. In 2007 she moved to Sainsbury's as convenience store director, and took a seat on the operating board in 2008.
She was named the first CEO of TalkTalk in 2010, when Carphone Warehouse split its telecoms business from its retail operation. She was appointed as a non-executive director on The Court of The Bank of England in July 2014. She has also served on the boards of British Land and Cheltenham Racecourse.
I see that some of the more excitable and partisan posters think she was responsible for the PHE app development That is of note for what it tells you about the more excitable and partisan posters, not about Dido Harding.
At TalkTalk she oversaw it being hacked by a teenager, its share price tanking and its customer service and public perception in the toilet. Then she ran away.
Many organisations get hacked or suffer cyber attacks, including most notably the NHS. Your point is what exactly?
Most competent organisations don't get hacked by teenagers. The reason they got hacked was because of poor security arrangements, which ultimately she oversaw as head of the company. I therefore question her technical credentials.
I get I'm not popular on this site and I'm hated by a great number but hearing the same implied attacks on me is wearing a little bin thin.
Basically my opinion is worthless because I'm a leftie but the PB Tories or right wingers on hear are always right. I enjoy it, much rather argue with people I disagree with, I just hate this idea there is anyone on this site who has the wisdom on truth, or who is somehow impartial.
Of course, perhaps I should know better on a pro-Tory site, perhaps the most pro-Tory blog I know of, to be honest.
Your opinion is as valuable as anyone elses.
There are more Conservative supporters who post regularly. Many of the Tory posters are very much worth a look. I'll give you an example. You can't get much more hardcore Tory than HYUFD, but HYUFD is a font of knowledge, particularly in US politics and his polling knowledge is encyclopaedic. I find myself disagreeing with HYUFD all the time, he is always forthright, but polite.
You can easily pick out the posters to avoid, although, ancient as I am, I managed to find myself in an altercation with someone I try to steer clear of earlier today.
Just enjoy, and ignore those who need to be ignored.
Yes Ishmael is a misanthropist as far as I can tell. He doesn’t have much of a good word for anyone.
I find most of the PB Tories to be nice chaps generally. I have to pull some of them up when they get too far up Bozza’s backside.
Not true.
Perhaps I overreact, but posts which aay this sort of thing - and absolutely nothing else - irritate the fuck out of me
"There has been some comedy gold from some PB Tories on this thread. Well done!"
A Mick Pork inspired gag which has long outlived its freshness. Then again as I hardly regard myself as a tory any more, perhaps I shouldn't mind. But anyone posting that sort of thing needs to think about glass houses, and the tolerability of heat in kitchens.
I get I'm not popular on this site and I'm hated by a great number but hearing the same implied attacks on me is wearing a little bin thin.
Basically my opinion is worthless because I'm a leftie but the PB Tories or right wingers on hear are always right. I enjoy it, much rather argue with people I disagree with, I just hate this idea there is anyone on this site who has the wisdom on truth, or who is somehow impartial.
Of course, perhaps I should know better on a pro-Tory site, perhaps the most pro-Tory blog I know of, to be honest.
I think you are ok CHB!
Although this has now become a hard left site! When I started in 2005 it was more balanced but most of the CON have been scared off by the nasty hard lefters!
Who in here is hard left though? I'm probably the most left wing person here I would think, although I've accepted my views aren't what the country wants to see hence my moderation.
No Comrade you are a Centrist
I'm a neoliberal stooge actually, now that I've praised Blair I'm actually a Tory don't you know
I get I'm not popular on this site and I'm hated by a great number but hearing the same implied attacks on me is wearing a little bin thin.
Basically my opinion is worthless because I'm a leftie but the PB Tories or right wingers on hear are always right. I enjoy it, much rather argue with people I disagree with, I just hate this idea there is anyone on this site who has the wisdom on truth, or who is somehow impartial.
Of course, perhaps I should know better on a pro-Tory site, perhaps the most pro-Tory blog I know of, to be honest.
I think you are ok CHB!
Although this has now become a hard left site! When I started in 2005 it was more balanced but most of the CON have been scared off by the nasty hard lefters!
Who in here is hard left though? I'm probably the most left wing person here I would think, although I've accepted my views aren't what the country wants to see hence my moderation.
No Comrade you are a Centrist
I'm a neoliberal stooge actually, now that I've praised Blair I'm actually a Tory don't you know
I've got a 'I love Boris - but please open the pubs' badge for you.
I actually think we should stop using the comrade label on the left, I get the historical connotations and why it is used but I kind of think it puts a lot of people off.
I have my own set of views, I'm anti-monarchy, pro a larger state, high investment, etc. But I accept the former is very unpopular, so no tears lost in keeping that one quiet.
I'd like to see a lot of things nationalised ideally but I get in reality its not workable or wanted. Railways enough for me, because I use them.
It's broadband I'd like to see major investment into - but perhaps into a co-operative or some kind of independent Government financed business.
Being anti Monarchy is not a particularly rare view on this site to be fair.
I meant in the general public but take the point about this site.
I think I would be a hypocrite to be pro-monarchy as a social democrat/light socialist, although I do support the immense amount of money they bring in, so I guess I am a hypocrite. Oh well.
Isn't the French REPUBLIC the most visited nation in the world (at least Pre-Lockdown)?
I have my own set of views, I'm anti-monarchy, pro a larger state, high investment, etc. But I accept the former is very unpopular, so no tears lost in keeping that one quiet.
I'd like to see a lot of things nationalised ideally but I get in reality its not workable or wanted. Railways enough for me, because I use them.
It's broadband I'd like to see major investment into - but perhaps into a co-operative or some kind of independent Government financed business.
Being anti Monarchy is not a particularly rare view on this site to be fair.
I meant in the general public but take the point about this site.
I think I would be a hypocrite to be pro-monarchy as a social democrat/light socialist, although I do support the immense amount of money they bring in, so I guess I am a hypocrite. Oh well.
Isn't the French REPUBLIC the most visited nation in the world (at least Pre-Lockdown)?
The general public when polled overwhelmingly are supportive of keeping the Monarchy?
I actually think we should stop using the comrade label on the left, I get the historical connotations and why it is used but I kind of think it puts a lot of people off.
Also worth mentioning the Shadow Cabinet, which, although vastly improved since the dismal Corbyn rag-bag, still looks lightweight and doesn't look like a government-in-waiting. The interview with Ed Balls on WATO today was a stark reminder that Labour used to have some serious Shad Cab figures.
To be fair, with experience and more exposure the frontbench team will no doubt improve. Nonetheless, Starmer could do with making a few forensic cuts. I'd suggest ditching RL-B would be a good start.
I think that's fair comment. But I also think that with exposure the front bench team will be seen to be stronger than their Tory counterparts within a couple of years. Interestingly one who has had exposure recently, David Lammy, has in my opinion surpassed expectations, being very sensible on BLM issues including statues - a voice of reason.
R L-B had to be given a job as runner-up for the leadership, really. Given that she is up against the nonentity Gavin Williamson, if she doesn't outperform him I would expect Starmer to dispense with her services after a year or so.
Lammy is an out and out racist. He doesn't even deserve to be in Parliament let alone in the Shadow Cabinet.
You've written this before about Lammy (I ignored it then), and I think it's a shameful slur. Do you know him? Do you really think the people of Tottenham would continue to elect him (76% in 2019) if he were a racist, or are you saying that they too are racist, or are they just blind to their MP's racism?
He explicitly said the job of leading the Grenfell enquiry should not go to someone who was white.
If anyone said that a position should not go to someone because they were black they would be guilty of discrimination and probably out of a job.
What is the difference?
That is infantile.
It is in no way infantile. If anyone were to say someone should be denied a job because they were black you would be all over it. And rightly so. But apparently it is okay for Lammy to say exactly the same thing about whites.
If you believe that you are a hypocrite and are part of the problem.
David Lammy is an "out and out racist" because he wanted a BAME head for the Grenfell Inquiry?
C'mon Richard. If you abuse language like that you give yourself a real problem - because you now have no way to describe an out and out racist.
There is no abuse of language at all. If I were to say that someone should not get a job because of the colour of their skin what would you call that?
And bear in mind he didn't say the job should go to someone BAME. He said it should not be a white person.
As I said if you pretend that isn't racist then you are an out and out hypocrite.
I will also add of course that he attacked white people raising money to help poor people in Africa. Apparently that is racist as well in his warped world.
Attitudes like his and apparently yours are just as bad as those of Nick Griffin and the BNP.
David Lammy as bad as Nick Griffin.
Keep going.
Now you are abusing language. Either that or you are simply thick. I said 'attitudes like his are as bad as those of Nick Griffin'.
That applies to anyone who makes judgements about people based on the colour of their skin. Or are you one of those idiots who thinks that only whites can be racist?
Exactly what I said. You are equating Lammy wanting a BAME head of the Grenfell Inquiry with the vile white supremacy beliefs of Nick Griffin and the BNP.
It's utterly ludicrous. By this token Joe Biden is an "out and out" racist on a par with David Duke for ruling out a white running mate.
You are demonstrating an astonishing lack of nuance and perspective on this matter. I am gobsmacked I really am.
(Yes of course you can be racist and not white. Plenty of that in the world.)
Lammy demonstrably looks for racism, and finds it, where none exists though. That is on the spectrum of racism/anti-racism etc etc somewhere, and probably doesn't help get his cause a sympathetic hearing.
That is a statement I can live with whilst not really agreeing with it.
For example I thought his "white saviours" point was good and worth thinking about.
Papal white smoke was an example I'd say, and an example of trying to make excuses instead of just fessing up too
I actually think we should stop using the comrade label on the left, I get the historical connotations and why it is used but I kind of think it puts a lot of people off.
I have my own set of views, I'm anti-monarchy, pro a larger state, high investment, etc. But I accept the former is very unpopular, so no tears lost in keeping that one quiet.
I'd like to see a lot of things nationalised ideally but I get in reality its not workable or wanted. Railways enough for me, because I use them.
It's broadband I'd like to see major investment into - but perhaps into a co-operative or some kind of independent Government financed business.
Being anti Monarchy is not a particularly rare view on this site to be fair.
I meant in the general public but take the point about this site.
I think I would be a hypocrite to be pro-monarchy as a social democrat/light socialist, although I do support the immense amount of money they bring in, so I guess I am a hypocrite. Oh well.
Isn't the French REPUBLIC the most visited nation in the world (at least Pre-Lockdown)?
Most competent organisations don't get hacked by teenagers. The reason they got hacked was because of poor security arrangements, which ultimately she oversaw as head of the company. I therefore question her technical credentials.
Why didn't you answer my other points?
Actually many competent organisations do get hacked by teenagers.
I didn't answer your other points because they were silly. The question being asked was what are her credentials. The answer is, as I said, that they are very good. She has extremely good and relevant experience, including managing change in large organisations, and (very unusually for someone with her breadth of private-sector experience) high-level NHS experience, since 2017.
Her technical credentials are irrelevant. She's not being asked to write software.
I get I'm not popular on this site and I'm hated by a great number but hearing the same implied attacks on me is wearing a little bin thin.
Basically my opinion is worthless because I'm a leftie but the PB Tories or right wingers on hear are always right. I enjoy it, much rather argue with people I disagree with, I just hate this idea there is anyone on this site who has the wisdom on truth, or who is somehow impartial.
Of course, perhaps I should know better on a pro-Tory site, perhaps the most pro-Tory blog I know of, to be honest.
I think you are ok CHB!
Although this has now become a hard left site! When I started in 2005 it was more balanced but most of the CON have been scared off by the nasty hard lefters!
Who in here is hard left though? I'm probably the most left wing person here I would think, although I've accepted my views aren't what the country wants to see hence my moderation.
No Comrade you are a Centrist
I'm a neoliberal stooge actually, now that I've praised Blair I'm actually a Tory don't you know
I've got a 'I love Boris - but please open the pubs' badge for you.
Will be announced next week according to tomorrow’s Times
I actually think we should stop using the comrade label on the left, I get the historical connotations and why it is used but I kind of think it puts a lot of people off.
Most competent organisations don't get hacked by teenagers. The reason they got hacked was because of poor security arrangements, which ultimately she oversaw as head of the company. I therefore question her technical credentials.
Why didn't you answer my other points?
Actually many competent organisations do get hacked by teenagers.
I didn't answer your other points because they were silly. The question being asked was what are her credentials. The answer is, as I said, that they are very good. She has extremely good and relevant experience, including managing change in large organisations, and (very unusually for someone with her breadth of private-sector experience) high-level NHS experience, since 2017.
Her technical credentials are irrelevant. She's not being asked to write software.
Her management credentials are good despite the company she ran as CEO having its share price tank, its popularity go into the toilet and having it be hacked due to poor security arrangements? Really?
I have my own set of views, I'm anti-monarchy, pro a larger state, high investment, etc. But I accept the former is very unpopular, so no tears lost in keeping that one quiet.
I'd like to see a lot of things nationalised ideally but I get in reality its not workable or wanted. Railways enough for me, because I use them.
It's broadband I'd like to see major investment into - but perhaps into a co-operative or some kind of independent Government financed business.
Being anti Monarchy is not a particularly rare view on this site to be fair.
I meant in the general public but take the point about this site.
I think I would be a hypocrite to be pro-monarchy as a social democrat/light socialist, although I do support the immense amount of money they bring in, so I guess I am a hypocrite. Oh well.
Isn't the French REPUBLIC the most visited nation in the world (at least Pre-Lockdown)?
And I am not sure losing the monarchy would cut down tourism to any marked extent, even by monarchy fans, if the London palaces were turned into pure tourist attractions.
I actually think we should stop using the comrade label on the left, I get the historical connotations and why it is used but I kind of think it puts a lot of people off.
I get I'm not popular on this site and I'm hated by a great number but hearing the same implied attacks on me is wearing a little bin thin.
Basically my opinion is worthless because I'm a leftie but the PB Tories or right wingers on hear are always right. I enjoy it, much rather argue with people I disagree with, I just hate this idea there is anyone on this site who has the wisdom on truth, or who is somehow impartial.
Of course, perhaps I should know better on a pro-Tory site, perhaps the most pro-Tory blog I know of, to be honest.
I think you are ok CHB!
Although this has now become a hard left site! When I started in 2005 it was more balanced but most of the CON have been scared off by the nasty hard lefters!
Who in here is hard left though? I'm probably the most left wing person here I would think, although I've accepted my views aren't what the country wants to see hence my moderation.
No Comrade you are a Centrist
I'm a neoliberal stooge actually, now that I've praised Blair I'm actually a Tory don't you know
I've got a 'I love Boris - but please open the pubs' badge for you.
Will be announced next week according to tomorrow’s Times
Nobody could have foreseen the NHS app being a disaster...except anyone who worked in software engineering and had any knowledge of iOS development.
So a lot of people then.
But don't worry, we've got "expert" Dido Harding on the case now. What are her credentials?
Her credentials are very good indeed. From the Repository of All Knowledge:
On graduation she joined the management consultancy McKinsey & Company.[9] She went on to work at Kingfisher and Thomas Cook, and then held a variety of senior roles at Tesco. In 2007 she moved to Sainsbury's as convenience store director, and took a seat on the operating board in 2008.
She was named the first CEO of TalkTalk in 2010, when Carphone Warehouse split its telecoms business from its retail operation. She was appointed as a non-executive director on The Court of The Bank of England in July 2014. She has also served on the boards of British Land and Cheltenham Racecourse.
I see that some of the more excitable and partisan posters think she was responsible for the PHE app development That is of note for what it tells you about the more excitable and partisan posters, not about Dido Harding.
At TalkTalk she oversaw it being hacked by a teenager, its share price tanking and its customer service and public perception in the toilet. Then she ran away.
Many organisations get hacked or suffer cyber attacks, including most notably the NHS. Your point is what exactly?
She was the wrong choice because she's an old duffer who's completely clueless about tech. We needed someone who has actually built an app of similar scale before to run this project. Someone who knows the process inside out and knows all of the common pitfalls. To put it in our context, it's like getting a used car salesman to run a bank. It's always going to end in tears. The government has picked the wrong person to run a project of huge importance which is now going to be up to 6 months late.
Her management credentials are good despite the company she ran as CEO having its share price tank, its popularity go into the toilet and having it be hacked due to poor security arrangements? Really?
Well, I thought you lefties didn't gauge everything by share prices, and nor should you, since lots of different things affect them.
I have my own set of views, I'm anti-monarchy, pro a larger state, high investment, etc. But I accept the former is very unpopular, so no tears lost in keeping that one quiet.
I'd like to see a lot of things nationalised ideally but I get in reality its not workable or wanted. Railways enough for me, because I use them.
It's broadband I'd like to see major investment into - but perhaps into a co-operative or some kind of independent Government financed business.
Being anti Monarchy is not a particularly rare view on this site to be fair.
I meant in the general public but take the point about this site.
I think I would be a hypocrite to be pro-monarchy as a social democrat/light socialist, although I do support the immense amount of money they bring in, so I guess I am a hypocrite. Oh well.
Isn't the French REPUBLIC the most visited nation in the world (at least Pre-Lockdown)?
And I am not sure losing the monarchy would cut down tourism to any marked extent, even by monarchy fans, if the London palaces were turned into pure tourist attractions.
France is visited for other reasons than the nature of their Head of State. For Britain however it is a USP - It is the most well known and followed monarchy in the world so people do come to see the heart of it . It would be a complete failure of any politician to allow voluntarily such an advantage to Britain to be cast aside for political ideology.
I have my own set of views, I'm anti-monarchy, pro a larger state, high investment, etc. But I accept the former is very unpopular, so no tears lost in keeping that one quiet.
I'd like to see a lot of things nationalised ideally but I get in reality its not workable or wanted. Railways enough for me, because I use them.
It's broadband I'd like to see major investment into - but perhaps into a co-operative or some kind of independent Government financed business.
Being anti Monarchy is not a particularly rare view on this site to be fair.
I meant in the general public but take the point about this site.
I think I would be a hypocrite to be pro-monarchy as a social democrat/light socialist, although I do support the immense amount of money they bring in, so I guess I am a hypocrite. Oh well.
Isn't the French REPUBLIC the most visited nation in the world (at least Pre-Lockdown)?
It is.
Funny old world.
Nicer, more reliable weather? I don't think we get many foreign tourists wanting to sun themselves on our beaches - oops is that racist?
She was the wrong choice because she's an old duffer who's completely clueless about tech. We needed someone who has actually built an app of similar scale before to run this project. Someone who knows the process inside out and knows all of the common pitfalls. To put it in our context, it's like getting a used car salesman to run a bank. It's always going to end in tears. The government has picked the wrong person to run a project of huge importance which is now going to be up to 6 months late.
She's not running the app development, and never has been! How many more times does this need to be repeated? There's a former Apple guy who is running it.
Her management credentials are good despite the company she ran as CEO having its share price tank, its popularity go into the toilet and having it be hacked due to poor security arrangements? Really?
Well, I thought you lefties didn't gauge everything by share prices, and nor should you, since lots of different things affect them.
What's that got to do with anything? Why are you personally attacking me?
She doesn't have good technical credentials, or good management credentials, as I pointed out to you.
The thing she actually ran herself, she fudged up epically. I wouldn't trust her to run a bath.
Of course the fact she has close links to the Tory Party can't be anything to do with it though right. Right?
I have my own set of views, I'm anti-monarchy, pro a larger state, high investment, etc. But I accept the former is very unpopular, so no tears lost in keeping that one quiet.
I'd like to see a lot of things nationalised ideally but I get in reality its not workable or wanted. Railways enough for me, because I use them.
It's broadband I'd like to see major investment into - but perhaps into a co-operative or some kind of independent Government financed business.
Being anti Monarchy is not a particularly rare view on this site to be fair.
I meant in the general public but take the point about this site.
I think I would be a hypocrite to be pro-monarchy as a social democrat/light socialist, although I do support the immense amount of money they bring in, so I guess I am a hypocrite. Oh well.
Isn't the French REPUBLIC the most visited nation in the world (at least Pre-Lockdown)?
And I am not sure losing the monarchy would cut down tourism to any marked extent, even by monarchy fans, if the London palaces were turned into pure tourist attractions.
France is visited for other reasons than the nature of their Head of State. For Britain however it is a USP - It is the most well known and followed monarchy in the world so people do come to see the heart of it .
But the heart remains after the monarchy goes, and museums at BP and Windsor Castle would be a huge draw.
She was the wrong choice because she's an old duffer who's completely clueless about tech. We needed someone who has actually built an app of similar scale before to run this project. Someone who knows the process inside out and knows all of the common pitfalls. To put it in our context, it's like getting a used car salesman to run a bank. It's always going to end in tears. The government has picked the wrong person to run a project of huge importance which is now going to be up to 6 months late.
She's not running the app development, and never has been! How many more times does this need to be repeated?
In my experience, one of the reasons projects for software engineering are often so poor is precisely because the people running them have no idea how app development works. So I think this is a relevant point to make.
I get I'm not popular on this site and I'm hated by a great number but hearing the same implied attacks on me is wearing a little bin thin.
Basically my opinion is worthless because I'm a leftie but the PB Tories or right wingers on hear are always right. I enjoy it, much rather argue with people I disagree with, I just hate this idea there is anyone on this site who has the wisdom on truth, or who is somehow impartial.
Of course, perhaps I should know better on a pro-Tory site, perhaps the most pro-Tory blog I know of, to be honest.
I think you are great CHB. Keep up the good work! It's interesting that the leftwing posters think it's a Tory site and the rightwing posters think it's a Marxist hellhole (although most of the Marxists seem to work for Boris Johnson these days, go figure). Maybe like the BBC that means it's doing something right. One thing I have noticed is that rightwing posters seem to go in for pile-ons a bit more often, whereas the lefties seem to be a bit more solo operators. Which is kind of the opposite of what one might have expected given their respective attitudes towards the collective vs the individual. Anyway, I think the main thing is to be kind to each other. There's too much hate in the world already.
Good post, much to think about with regards to where the site actually sits as opposed to the perceptions I have of it.
I do like that the owner chimes in occasionally, far too many sites have their owners hiding away somewhere.
It is not always a good idea to have the man with the Ban Hammer weighing in
The place is rombustuous but we all seem to rub along rather then rub each other up. If you think you are having a hard time, dig into the archives and read some of the stuff Roger or Tim caused arguments about.
Whom are these people?
I do like the history of this site and hearing about it but I feel sometimes as though I'll never know or understand it all.
Roger is a PB hero and Tim was an artist formerly known in another parish as GOsbornGenius!
Tim was a complete a*se who makes Eadric look polite IMNSHO. I always suspected he had acne and posted from the small bedroom in his mum's house in L15
Roger is (was??) an advertising type who was so left-wing he made Marx look like a fascist.
She was the wrong choice because she's an old duffer who's completely clueless about tech. We needed someone who has actually built an app of similar scale before to run this project. Someone who knows the process inside out and knows all of the common pitfalls. To put it in our context, it's like getting a used car salesman to run a bank. It's always going to end in tears. The government has picked the wrong person to run a project of huge importance which is now going to be up to 6 months late.
She's not running the app development, and never has been! How many more times does this need to be repeated?
In my experience, one of the reasons projects for software engineering are often so poor is precisely because the people running them have no idea how app development works. So I think this is a relevant point to make.
The failed app wasn't developed under her management.
I'm wondering if parties ever learn lessons from their defeats at all, or rather just end up winning through a combination of the other side screwing up and a better leader.
I have my own set of views, I'm anti-monarchy, pro a larger state, high investment, etc. But I accept the former is very unpopular, so no tears lost in keeping that one quiet.
I'd like to see a lot of things nationalised ideally but I get in reality its not workable or wanted. Railways enough for me, because I use them.
It's broadband I'd like to see major investment into - but perhaps into a co-operative or some kind of independent Government financed business.
Being anti Monarchy is not a particularly rare view on this site to be fair.
I meant in the general public but take the point about this site.
I think I would be a hypocrite to be pro-monarchy as a social democrat/light socialist, although I do support the immense amount of money they bring in, so I guess I am a hypocrite. Oh well.
Isn't the French REPUBLIC the most visited nation in the world (at least Pre-Lockdown)?
And I am not sure losing the monarchy would cut down tourism to any marked extent, even by monarchy fans, if the London palaces were turned into pure tourist attractions.
France is visited for other reasons than the nature of their Head of State. For Britain however it is a USP - It is the most well known and followed monarchy in the world so people do come to see the heart of it .
But the heart remains after the monarchy goes, and museums at BP and Windsor Castle would be a huge draw.
i think it would fade pretty quickly .Every so often a Royal wedding bumps up the interest (or death) . You cannot have these if no royals
Most competent organisations don't get hacked by teenagers. The reason they got hacked was because of poor security arrangements, which ultimately she oversaw as head of the company. I therefore question her technical credentials.
Why didn't you answer my other points?
Actually many competent organisations do get hacked by teenagers.
I didn't answer your other points because they were silly. The question being asked was what are her credentials. The answer is, as I said, that they are very good. She has extremely good and relevant experience, including managing change in large organisations, and (very unusually for someone with her breadth of private-sector experience) high-level NHS experience, since 2017.
Her technical credentials are irrelevant. She's not being asked to write software.
I've worked in tech and trust me you want the person in charge to know the tech. It's why software engineers who go into management are so highly sought after. If the company is being run by a clueless old duffer like Harding then there's huge scope for failure, which is where our app is at the moment.
Again, you're acting like she's had this huge successful launch and her critics are just picking at loose threads. It's not the case, the whole project is a disaster. Lots and lots of people who work in tech predicted it would be and exactly why it works be, those situations and reasons came to pass. Her leadership has cost the nation untold billions in additional lockdown measures needing to be extended where they could otherwise be relaxed.
When it comes to managing the building of an app someone like Harding doesn't even make the first 500 names on a list, maybe even 5000. We have one of the best tech sectors in the world, the government just needed to ask for help and the industry would have delivered.
Nobody could have foreseen the NHS app being a disaster...except anyone who worked in software engineering and had any knowledge of iOS development.
So a lot of people then.
But don't worry, we've got "expert" Dido Harding on the case now. What are her credentials?
Her credentials are very good indeed. From the Repository of All Knowledge:
On graduation she joined the management consultancy McKinsey & Company.[9] She went on to work at Kingfisher and Thomas Cook, and then held a variety of senior roles at Tesco. In 2007 she moved to Sainsbury's as convenience store director, and took a seat on the operating board in 2008.
She was named the first CEO of TalkTalk in 2010, when Carphone Warehouse split its telecoms business from its retail operation. She was appointed as a non-executive director on The Court of The Bank of England in July 2014. She has also served on the boards of British Land and Cheltenham Racecourse.
I see that some of the more excitable and partisan posters think she was responsible for the PHE app development That is of note for what it tells you about the more excitable and partisan posters, not about Dido Harding.
At TalkTalk she oversaw it being hacked by a teenager, its share price tanking and its customer service and public perception in the toilet. Then she ran away.
Many organisations get hacked or suffer cyber attacks, including most notably the NHS. Your point is what exactly?
She was the wrong choice because she's an old duffer who's completely clueless about tech. We needed someone who has actually built an app of similar scale before to run this project. Someone who knows the process inside out and knows all of the common pitfalls. To put it in our context, it's like getting a used car salesman to run a bank. It's always going to end in tears. The government has picked the wrong person to run a project of huge importance which is now going to be up to 6 months late.
Can we not just use the Irish one? Or translate the German one? What difference does it make if you are contact tracing in Dublin or Birmingham?
She was the wrong choice because she's an old duffer who's completely clueless about tech. We needed someone who has actually built an app of similar scale before to run this project. Someone who knows the process inside out and knows all of the common pitfalls. To put it in our context, it's like getting a used car salesman to run a bank. It's always going to end in tears. The government has picked the wrong person to run a project of huge importance which is now going to be up to 6 months late.
She's not running the app development, and never has been! How many more times does this need to be repeated?
In my experience, one of the reasons projects for software engineering are often so poor is precisely because the people running them have no idea how app development works. So I think this is a relevant point to make.
The failed app wasn't developed under her management.
You're missing the point. The solution to a failed app is not to get somebody who doesn't know what they're doing.
If you'll read my original post, I said she was *now* on the case.
Her management credentials are good despite the company she ran as CEO having its share price tank, its popularity go into the toilet and having it be hacked due to poor security arrangements? Really?
Well, I thought you lefties didn't gauge everything by share prices, and nor should you, since lots of different things affect them.
What's that got to do with anything? Why are you personally attacking me?
I'm not personally attacking you. I'm just puzzled that you, of all people, should use a share price as a test of her credentials. As far as I know they are not planning an IPO of Track-n-Trace.
Her management credentials are good despite the company she ran as CEO having its share price tank, its popularity go into the toilet and having it be hacked due to poor security arrangements? Really?
Well, I thought you lefties didn't gauge everything by share prices, and nor should you, since lots of different things affect them.
What's that got to do with anything? Why are you personally attacking me?
I'm not personally attacking you. I'm just puzzled that you, of all people, should use a share price as a test of her credentials. As far as I know they are not planning an IPO of Track-n-Trace.
Can somebody else decipher this post because I'm totally bemused at what they are getting at
I have my own set of views, I'm anti-monarchy, pro a larger state, high investment, etc. But I accept the former is very unpopular, so no tears lost in keeping that one quiet.
I'd like to see a lot of things nationalised ideally but I get in reality its not workable or wanted. Railways enough for me, because I use them.
It's broadband I'd like to see major investment into - but perhaps into a co-operative or some kind of independent Government financed business.
Being anti Monarchy is not a particularly rare view on this site to be fair.
I meant in the general public but take the point about this site.
I think I would be a hypocrite to be pro-monarchy as a social democrat/light socialist, although I do support the immense amount of money they bring in, so I guess I am a hypocrite. Oh well.
Isn't the French REPUBLIC the most visited nation in the world (at least Pre-Lockdown)?
And I am not sure losing the monarchy would cut down tourism to any marked extent, even by monarchy fans, if the London palaces were turned into pure tourist attractions.
France is visited for other reasons than the nature of their Head of State. For Britain however it is a USP - It is the most well known and followed monarchy in the world so people do come to see the heart of it .
But the heart remains after the monarchy goes, and museums at BP and Windsor Castle would be a huge draw.
And bits could be sub-let to Madame Tussauds with appropriate animated dummies.
Most competent organisations don't get hacked by teenagers. The reason they got hacked was because of poor security arrangements, which ultimately she oversaw as head of the company. I therefore question her technical credentials.
Why didn't you answer my other points?
Actually many competent organisations do get hacked by teenagers.
I didn't answer your other points because they were silly. The question being asked was what are her credentials. The answer is, as I said, that they are very good. She has extremely good and relevant experience, including managing change in large organisations, and (very unusually for someone with her breadth of private-sector experience) high-level NHS experience, since 2017.
Her technical credentials are irrelevant. She's not being asked to write software.
I've worked in tech and trust me you want the person in charge to know the tech. It's why software engineers who go into management are so highly sought after. If the company is being run by a clueless old duffer like Harding then there's huge scope for failure, which is where our app is at the moment.
Again, you're acting like she's had this huge successful launch and her critics are just picking at loose threads. It's not the case, the whole project is a disaster. Lots and lots of people who work in tech predicted it would be and exactly why it works be, those situations and reasons came to pass. Her leadership has cost the nation untold billions in additional lockdown measures needing to be extended where they could otherwise be relaxed.
When it comes to managing the building of an app someone like Harding doesn't even make the first 500 names on a list, maybe even 5000. We have one of the best tech sectors in the world, the government just needed to ask for help and the industry would have delivered.
That rant would make a little more sense if she had had anything to do with the failed app development.
Her management credentials are good despite the company she ran as CEO having its share price tank, its popularity go into the toilet and having it be hacked due to poor security arrangements? Really?
Well, I thought you lefties didn't gauge everything by share prices, and nor should you, since lots of different things affect them.
What's that got to do with anything? Why are you personally attacking me?
I'm not personally attacking you. I'm just puzzled that you, of all people, should use a share price as a test of her credentials. As far as I know they are not planning an IPO of Track-n-Trace.
Under her wonderful leadership we dropped the track part of the strategy. It's now test and trace. She's a rubbish choice and is only there because she knows the right people.
I get I'm not popular on this site and I'm hated by a great number but hearing the same implied attacks on me is wearing a little bin thin.
Basically my opinion is worthless because I'm a leftie but the PB Tories or right wingers on hear are always right. I enjoy it, much rather argue with people I disagree with, I just hate this idea there is anyone on this site who has the wisdom on truth, or who is somehow impartial.
Of course, perhaps I should know better on a pro-Tory site, perhaps the most pro-Tory blog I know of, to be honest.
I think you are great CHB. Keep up the good work! It's interesting that the leftwing posters think it's a Tory site and the rightwing posters think it's a Marxist hellhole (although most of the Marxists seem to work for Boris Johnson these days, go figure). Maybe like the BBC that means it's doing something right. One thing I have noticed is that rightwing posters seem to go in for pile-ons a bit more often, whereas the lefties seem to be a bit more solo operators. Which is kind of the opposite of what one might have expected given their respective attitudes towards the collective vs the individual. Anyway, I think the main thing is to be kind to each other. There's too much hate in the world already.
Good post, much to think about with regards to where the site actually sits as opposed to the perceptions I have of it.
I do like that the owner chimes in occasionally, far too many sites have their owners hiding away somewhere.
It is not always a good idea to have the man with the Ban Hammer weighing in
The place is rombustuous but we all seem to rub along rather then rub each other up. If you think you are having a hard time, dig into the archives and read some of the stuff Roger or Tim caused arguments about.
Whom are these people?
I do like the history of this site and hearing about it but I feel sometimes as though I'll never know or understand it all.
Roger is a PB hero and Tim was an artist formerly known in another parish as GOsbornGenius!
Tim was a complete a*se who makes Eadric look polite IMNSHO. I always suspected he had acne and posted from the small bedroom in his mum's house in L15
Roger is (was??) an advertising type who was so left-wing he made Marx look like a fascist.
Roger I remember with fondness at being proudly left wing but also openly admitted he was a snob who looked down at working class people. A unique character therefore . Many left wingers do look down at working class people of course but they pretend they don't -Roger just admitted it. Tim was tenacious and had a wit equal to eadric ie Both clever and similar in character if not politics
Nobody could have foreseen the NHS app being a disaster...except anyone who worked in software engineering and had any knowledge of iOS development.
So a lot of people then.
But don't worry, we've got "expert" Dido Harding on the case now. What are her credentials?
Her credentials are very good indeed. From the Repository of All Knowledge:
On graduation she joined the management consultancy McKinsey & Company.[9] She went on to work at Kingfisher and Thomas Cook, and then held a variety of senior roles at Tesco. In 2007 she moved to Sainsbury's as convenience store director, and took a seat on the operating board in 2008.
She was named the first CEO of TalkTalk in 2010, when Carphone Warehouse split its telecoms business from its retail operation. She was appointed as a non-executive director on The Court of The Bank of England in July 2014. She has also served on the boards of British Land and Cheltenham Racecourse.
I see that some of the more excitable and partisan posters think she was responsible for the PHE app development That is of note for what it tells you about the more excitable and partisan posters, not about Dido Harding.
At TalkTalk she oversaw it being hacked by a teenager, its share price tanking and its customer service and public perception in the toilet. Then she ran away.
Many organisations get hacked or suffer cyber attacks, including most notably the NHS. Your point is what exactly?
She was the wrong choice because she's an old duffer who's completely clueless about tech. We needed someone who has actually built an app of similar scale before to run this project. Someone who knows the process inside out and knows all of the common pitfalls. To put it in our context, it's like getting a used car salesman to run a bank. It's always going to end in tears. The government has picked the wrong person to run a project of huge importance which is now going to be up to 6 months late.
Can we not just use the Irish one? Or translate the German one? What difference does it make if you are contact tracing in Dublin or Birmingham?
The German one has been open sourced so yes we could. We won't because duffers like Harding and that other idiot that Guido mentioned are in charge.
Also worth mentioning the Shadow Cabinet, which, although vastly improved since the dismal Corbyn rag-bag, still looks lightweight and doesn't look like a government-in-waiting. The interview with Ed Balls on WATO today was a stark reminder that Labour used to have some serious Shad Cab figures.
To be fair, with experience and more exposure the frontbench team will no doubt improve. Nonetheless, Starmer could do with making a few forensic cuts. I'd suggest ditching RL-B would be a good start.
I think that's fair comment. But I also think that with exposure the front bench team will be seen to be stronger than their Tory counterparts within a couple of years. Interestingly one who has had exposure recently, David Lammy, has in my opinion surpassed expectations, being very sensible on BLM issues including statues - a voice of reason.
R L-B had to be given a job as runner-up for the leadership, really. Given that she is up against the nonentity Gavin Williamson, if she doesn't outperform him I would expect Starmer to dispense with her services after a year or so.
Lammy is an out and out racist. He doesn't even deserve to be in Parliament let alone in the Shadow Cabinet.
You've written this before about Lammy (I ignored it then), and I think it's a shameful slur. Do you know him? Do you really think the people of Tottenham would continue to elect him (76% in 2019) if he were a racist, or are you saying that they too are racist, or are they just blind to their MP's racism?
He explicitly said the job of leading the Grenfell enquiry should not go to someone who was white.
If anyone said that a position should not go to someone because they were black they would be guilty of discrimination and probably out of a job.
What is the difference?
That is infantile.
It is in no way infantile. If anyone were to say someone should be denied a job because they were black you would be all over it. And rightly so. But apparently it is okay for Lammy to say exactly the same thing about whites.
If you believe that you are a hypocrite and are part of the problem.
David Lammy is an "out and out racist" because he wanted a BAME head for the Grenfell Inquiry?
C'mon Richard. If you abuse language like that you give yourself a real problem - because you now have no way to describe an out and out racist.
There is no abuse of language at all. If I were to say that someone should not get a job because of the colour of their skin what would you call that?
And bear in mind he didn't say the job should go to someone BAME. He said it should not be a white person.
As I said if you pretend that isn't racist then you are an out and out hypocrite.
I will also add of course that he attacked white people raising money to help poor people in Africa. Apparently that is racist as well in his warped world.
Attitudes like his and apparently yours are just as bad as those of Nick Griffin and the BNP.
David Lammy as bad as Nick Griffin.
Keep going.
Now you are abusing language. Either that or you are simply thick. I said 'attitudes like his are as bad as those of Nick Griffin'.
That applies to anyone who makes judgements about people based on the colour of their skin. Or are you one of those idiots who thinks that only whites can be racist?
Exactly what I said. You are equating Lammy wanting a BAME head of the Grenfell Inquiry with the vile white supremacy beliefs of Nick Griffin and the BNP.
It's utterly ludicrous. By this token Joe Biden is an "out and out" racist on a par with David Duke for ruling out a white running mate.
You are demonstrating an astonishing lack of nuance and perspective on this matter. I am gobsmacked I really am.
(Yes of course you can be racist and not white. Plenty of that in the world.)
Lammy demonstrably looks for racism, and finds it, where none exists though. That is on the spectrum of racism/anti-racism etc etc somewhere, and probably doesn't help get his cause a sympathetic hearing.
That is a statement I can live with whilst not really agreeing with it.
For example I thought his "white saviours" point was good and worth thinking about.
Papal white smoke was an example I'd say, and an example of trying to make excuses instead of just fessing up too
Yes, his claim to have only had one eye on what he was reading was exceedingly lame, and hardly explains why he jumped to a point about race.
A classic of the 'I'm stupid' defence which politicians only ever use when the alternative is even worse. See also Corbyn's 'I never looked at the mural' defence, since despite the efforts of some (including on here) his people obviously decided defending the world's greatest anti-racist not getting the implications of the mural would not fly.
Lammy, admittedly, seems to have no middle ground between making good points and utterly terrible ones.
I have my own set of views, I'm anti-monarchy, pro a larger state, high investment, etc. But I accept the former is very unpopular, so no tears lost in keeping that one quiet.
I'd like to see a lot of things nationalised ideally but I get in reality its not workable or wanted. Railways enough for me, because I use them.
It's broadband I'd like to see major investment into - but perhaps into a co-operative or some kind of independent Government financed business.
Being anti Monarchy is not a particularly rare view on this site to be fair.
I meant in the general public but take the point about this site.
I think I would be a hypocrite to be pro-monarchy as a social democrat/light socialist, although I do support the immense amount of money they bring in, so I guess I am a hypocrite. Oh well.
Isn't the French REPUBLIC the most visited nation in the world (at least Pre-Lockdown)?
And I am not sure losing the monarchy would cut down tourism to any marked extent, even by monarchy fans, if the London palaces were turned into pure tourist attractions.
France is visited for other reasons than the nature of their Head of State. For Britain however it is a USP - It is the most well known and followed monarchy in the world so people do come to see the heart of it .
But the heart remains after the monarchy goes, and museums at BP and Windsor Castle would be a huge draw.
And bits could be sub-let to Madame Tussauds with appropriate animated dummies.
Plus ca change, some might think. I couldn't possibly comment.
The APIs the German app are using are publicly available, as Google and Apple provided them ages ago.
Instead we've been mucking around with our own implementation for no good reason other than some stupid attempt at glory.
Engineers are a lazy bunch, if something is there and it works, its provided by the people that make the OS you're in a good place to use it. It's what I do.
Most competent organisations don't get hacked by teenagers. The reason they got hacked was because of poor security arrangements, which ultimately she oversaw as head of the company. I therefore question her technical credentials.
Why didn't you answer my other points?
Actually many competent organisations do get hacked by teenagers.
I didn't answer your other points because they were silly. The question being asked was what are her credentials. The answer is, as I said, that they are very good. She has extremely good and relevant experience, including managing change in large organisations, and (very unusually for someone with her breadth of private-sector experience) high-level NHS experience, since 2017.
Her technical credentials are irrelevant. She's not being asked to write software.
I've worked in tech and trust me you want the person in charge to know the tech. It's why software engineers who go into management are so highly sought after. If the company is being run by a clueless old duffer like Harding then there's huge scope for failure, which is where our app is at the moment.
Again, you're acting like she's had this huge successful launch and her critics are just picking at loose threads. It's not the case, the whole project is a disaster. Lots and lots of people who work in tech predicted it would be and exactly why it works be, those situations and reasons came to pass. Her leadership has cost the nation untold billions in additional lockdown measures needing to be extended where they could otherwise be relaxed.
When it comes to managing the building of an app someone like Harding doesn't even make the first 500 names on a list, maybe even 5000. We have one of the best tech sectors in the world, the government just needed to ask for help and the industry would have delivered.
That rant would make a little more sense if she had had anything to do with the failed app development.
She took over before it was delivered. If she knew anything about tech she would have cancelled it on day one of the job and tasked them with the current approach, we'd be two weeks away from a beta test if she had. But she's a clueless old person who doesn't know about tech.
Nobody could have foreseen the NHS app being a disaster...except anyone who worked in software engineering and had any knowledge of iOS development.
So a lot of people then.
But don't worry, we've got "expert" Dido Harding on the case now. What are her credentials?
Her credentials are very good indeed. From the Repository of All Knowledge:
On graduation she joined the management consultancy McKinsey & Company.[9] She went on to work at Kingfisher and Thomas Cook, and then held a variety of senior roles at Tesco. In 2007 she moved to Sainsbury's as convenience store director, and took a seat on the operating board in 2008.
She was named the first CEO of TalkTalk in 2010, when Carphone Warehouse split its telecoms business from its retail operation. She was appointed as a non-executive director on The Court of The Bank of England in July 2014. She has also served on the boards of British Land and Cheltenham Racecourse.
I see that some of the more excitable and partisan posters think she was responsible for the PHE app development That is of note for what it tells you about the more excitable and partisan posters, not about Dido Harding.
At TalkTalk she oversaw it being hacked by a teenager, its share price tanking and its customer service and public perception in the toilet. Then she ran away.
Many organisations get hacked or suffer cyber attacks, including most notably the NHS. Your point is what exactly?
She was the wrong choice because she's an old duffer who's completely clueless about tech. We needed someone who has actually built an app of similar scale before to run this project. Someone who knows the process inside out and knows all of the common pitfalls. To put it in our context, it's like getting a used car salesman to run a bank. It's always going to end in tears. The government has picked the wrong person to run a project of huge importance which is now going to be up to 6 months late.
Can we not just use the Irish one? Or translate the German one? What difference does it make if you are contact tracing in Dublin or Birmingham?
The German one has been open sourced so yes we could. We won't because duffers like Harding and that other idiot that Guido mentioned are in charge.
The APIs the German app are using are publicly available, as Google and Apple provided them ages ago.
Instead we've been mucking around with our own implementation for no good reason other than some stupid attempt at glory.
Engineers are a lazy bunch, if something is there and it works, its provided by the people that make the OS you're in a good place to use it. It's what I do.
As they say, don't reinvent the wheel.
The reports suggest they were actually testing both approaches at the same time. The home-grown one was good at differentiating between different distances, but didn't work as well with iPhones. The apple version vice versa.
One does have to keep a sense of humour in this lark. An app is developed. It's a duff design and doesn't actually work (as correctly predicted by several PBers right at the start, hat-tip to them). Dido Harding is then appointed to run the track and trace operation, and the duff app is then canned. And Dido Harding is blamed for the original app not working. You really couldn't make it up, could you?
More to the point, why on earth would anyone of talent want to help, if they get brickbats for things which cannot conceivably be their fault? She doesn't exactly need the dosh, does she?
The APIs the German app are using are publicly available, as Google and Apple provided them ages ago.
Instead we've been mucking around with our own implementation for no good reason other than some stupid attempt at glory.
Engineers are a lazy bunch, if something is there and it works, its provided by the people that make the OS you're in a good place to use it. It's what I do.
As they say, don't reinvent the wheel.
The reports suggest they were actually testing both approaches at the same time. The home-grown one was good at differentiating between different distances, but didn't work as well with iPhones. The apple version vice versa.
Honestly, that also sounds like bullshit. It's something they've come up with to justify wasting 6 weeks of valuable time on what everyone said would fail from the beginning for exactly the reasons it failed.
The APIs the German app are using are publicly available, as Google and Apple provided them ages ago.
Instead we've been mucking around with our own implementation for no good reason other than some stupid attempt at glory.
Engineers are a lazy bunch, if something is there and it works, its provided by the people that make the OS you're in a good place to use it. It's what I do.
As they say, don't reinvent the wheel.
The reports suggest they were actually testing both approaches at the same time. The home-grown one was good at differentiating between different distances, but didn't work as well with iPhones. The apple version vice versa.
I thought the Government insisted they were only working on one? This two app approach seems to have appeared since the original was deemed to be a complete failure.
My point is that anyone could see the app would be a failure when it was announced. I said as much at the time.
The APIs the German app are using are publicly available, as Google and Apple provided them ages ago.
Instead we've been mucking around with our own implementation for no good reason other than some stupid attempt at glory.
Engineers are a lazy bunch, if something is there and it works, its provided by the people that make the OS you're in a good place to use it. It's what I do.
As they say, don't reinvent the wheel.
The reports suggest they were actually testing both approaches at the same time. The home-grown one was good at differentiating between different distances, but didn't work as well with iPhones. The apple version vice versa.
Honestly, that also sounds like bullshit. It's something they've come up with to justify wasting 6 weeks of valuable time on what everyone said would fail from the beginning for exactly the reasons it failed.
It's only appeared since the app was deemed a failure.
We should have used the Apple/Google APIs from day one and been done with it.
Most competent organisations don't get hacked by teenagers. The reason they got hacked was because of poor security arrangements, which ultimately she oversaw as head of the company. I therefore question her technical credentials.
Why didn't you answer my other points?
Actually many competent organisations do get hacked by teenagers.
I didn't answer your other points because they were silly. The question being asked was what are her credentials. The answer is, as I said, that they are very good. She has extremely good and relevant experience, including managing change in large organisations, and (very unusually for someone with her breadth of private-sector experience) high-level NHS experience, since 2017.
Her technical credentials are irrelevant. She's not being asked to write software.
I've worked in tech and trust me you want the person in charge to know the tech. It's why software engineers who go into management are so highly sought after. If the company is being run by a clueless old duffer like Harding then there's huge scope for failure, which is where our app is at the moment.
Again, you're acting like she's had this huge successful launch and her critics are just picking at loose threads. It's not the case, the whole project is a disaster. Lots and lots of people who work in tech predicted it would be and exactly why it works be, those situations and reasons came to pass. Her leadership has cost the nation untold billions in additional lockdown measures needing to be extended where they could otherwise be relaxed.
When it comes to managing the building of an app someone like Harding doesn't even make the first 500 names on a list, maybe even 5000. We have one of the best tech sectors in the world, the government just needed to ask for help and the industry would have delivered.
That rant would make a little more sense if she had had anything to do with the failed app development.
She took over before it was delivered. If she knew anything about tech she would have cancelled it on day one of the job and tasked them with the current approach, we'd be two weeks away from a beta test if she had. But she's a clueless old person who doesn't know about tech.
Aged 52, with a much better track record of running a large tech company than you have.
In any case this is not a tech development appointment. She's actually mostly running a call centre.
I get I'm not popular on this site and I'm hated by a great number but hearing the same implied attacks on me is wearing a little bin thin.
Basically my opinion is worthless because I'm a leftie but the PB Tories or right wingers on hear are always right. I enjoy it, much rather argue with people I disagree with, I just hate this idea there is anyone on this site who has the wisdom on truth, or who is somehow impartial.
Of course, perhaps I should know better on a pro-Tory site, perhaps the most pro-Tory blog I know of, to be honest.
I think you are great CHB. Keep up the good work! It's interesting that the leftwing posters think it's a Tory site and the rightwing posters think it's a Marxist hellhole (although most of the Marxists seem to work for Boris Johnson these days, go figure). Maybe like the BBC that means it's doing something right. One thing I have noticed is that rightwing posters seem to go in for pile-ons a bit more often, whereas the lefties seem to be a bit more solo operators. Which is kind of the opposite of what one might have expected given their respective attitudes towards the collective vs the individual. Anyway, I think the main thing is to be kind to each other. There's too much hate in the world already.
Good post, much to think about with regards to where the site actually sits as opposed to the perceptions I have of it.
I do like that the owner chimes in occasionally, far too many sites have their owners hiding away somewhere.
It is not always a good idea to have the man with the Ban Hammer weighing in
The place is rombustuous but we all seem to rub along rather then rub each other up. If you think you are having a hard time, dig into the archives and read some of the stuff Roger or Tim caused arguments about.
Whom are these people?
I do like the history of this site and hearing about it but I feel sometimes as though I'll never know or understand it all.
Roger is a PB hero and Tim was an artist formerly known in another parish as GOsbornGenius!
Tim was a complete a*se who makes Eadric look polite IMNSHO. I always suspected he had acne and posted from the small bedroom in his mum's house in L15
Roger is (was??) an advertising type who was so left-wing he made Marx look like a fascist.
Roger I remember with fondness at being proudly left wing but also openly admitted he was a snob who looked down at working class people. A unique character therefore . Many left wingers do look down at working class people of course but they pretend they don't -Roger just admitted it. Tim was tenacious and had a wit equal to eadric ie Both clever and similar in character if not politics
My personal Wogerism was this -
"If you had worked for as many years in Europe with Europeans with all their quirks you too might feel as I do. That we are seprating ourselves from the most culturally exciting varied and beautiful continent in the world for no reason other than some very small minded people don't like foreigners makes me want to vomit.
If you'll forgive the name-drop i remember sitting down to lunch in an outdoor restaurant near Cannes when Boris Becker said 'If you could replace all the French with English this would be the nicest country in the world'."
More to the point, why on earth would anyone of talent want to help, if they get brickbats for things which cannot conceivably be their fault? She doesn't exactly need the dosh, does she?
Embarrassing photos? An inability to say no? Or maybe just likes a challenge?
The APIs the German app are using are publicly available, as Google and Apple provided them ages ago.
Instead we've been mucking around with our own implementation for no good reason other than some stupid attempt at glory.
Engineers are a lazy bunch, if something is there and it works, its provided by the people that make the OS you're in a good place to use it. It's what I do.
As they say, don't reinvent the wheel.
The reports suggest they were actually testing both approaches at the same time. The home-grown one was good at differentiating between different distances, but didn't work as well with iPhones. The apple version vice versa.
I thought the Government insisted they were only working on one? This two app approach seems to have appeared since the original was deemed to be a complete failure.
My point is that anyone could see the app would be a failure when it was announced. I said as much at the time.
I don't recall them saying that, but I definitely could have missed it. And indeed, quite a few did!
I have my own set of views, I'm anti-monarchy, pro a larger state, high investment, etc. But I accept the former is very unpopular, so no tears lost in keeping that one quiet.
I'd like to see a lot of things nationalised ideally but I get in reality its not workable or wanted. Railways enough for me, because I use them.
It's broadband I'd like to see major investment into - but perhaps into a co-operative or some kind of independent Government financed business.
Being anti Monarchy is not a particularly rare view on this site to be fair.
I meant in the general public but take the point about this site.
I think I would be a hypocrite to be pro-monarchy as a social democrat/light socialist, although I do support the immense amount of money they bring in, so I guess I am a hypocrite. Oh well.
Isn't the French REPUBLIC the most visited nation in the world (at least Pre-Lockdown)?
And I am not sure losing the monarchy would cut down tourism to any marked extent, even by monarchy fans, if the London palaces were turned into pure tourist attractions.
France is visited for other reasons than the nature of their Head of State. For Britain however it is a USP - It is the most well known and followed monarchy in the world so people do come to see the heart of it .
But the heart remains after the monarchy goes, and museums at BP and Windsor Castle would be a huge draw.
i think it would fade pretty quickly .Every so often a Royal wedding bumps up the interest (or death) . You cannot have these if no royals
The French seem to do okay without having the world’s most exclusive welfare state as an adjunct to their constitution. Last time I went, Versailles wasn’t struggling for visitors.
The approach to the app was obviously flawed. Max is right, we need fewer doners,cronies and suits. Someone who has built an app, might be a good start.
One does have to keep a sense of humour in this lark. An app is developed. It's a duff design and doesn't actually work (as correctly predicted by several PBers right at the start, hat-tip to them). Dido Harding is then appointed to run the track and trace operation, and the duff app is then canned. And Dido Harding is blamed for the original app not working. You really couldn't make it up, could you?
More to the point, why on earth would anyone of talent want to help, if they get brickbats for things which cannot conceivably be their fault? She doesn't exactly need the dosh, does she?
Because there have been weeks in between. It's not as if she was appointed yesterday. She had the power to cancel this failed app on day one. She didn't and now we're going to have to extend lockdown measures at a cost of billions. You're acting as though she's only been there for s few hours and she was just landed with this. That isn't the case, she took over, then the app was released, it's been weeks since then and only now is there a new app bring developed.
The buck stops with her, and had a more tech savvy person been appointed instead of this old person they'd have shit canned the original app and begun development of the new one as soon as they got the job.
The approach to the app was obviously flawed. Max is right, we need fewer doners,cronies and suits. Someone who has built an app, might be a good start.
Such as Simon Thompson, ex-Apple, who is now running it under Dido Harding, for example?
Most competent organisations don't get hacked by teenagers. The reason they got hacked was because of poor security arrangements, which ultimately she oversaw as head of the company. I therefore question her technical credentials.
Why didn't you answer my other points?
Actually many competent organisations do get hacked by teenagers.
I didn't answer your other points because they were silly. The question being asked was what are her credentials. The answer is, as I said, that they are very good. She has extremely good and relevant experience, including managing change in large organisations, and (very unusually for someone with her breadth of private-sector experience) high-level NHS experience, since 2017.
Her technical credentials are irrelevant. She's not being asked to write software.
I've worked in tech and trust me you want the person in charge to know the tech. It's why software engineers who go into management are so highly sought after. If the company is being run by a clueless old duffer like Harding then there's huge scope for failure, which is where our app is at the moment.
Again, you're acting like she's had this huge successful launch and her critics are just picking at loose threads. It's not the case, the whole project is a disaster. Lots and lots of people who work in tech predicted it would be and exactly why it works be, those situations and reasons came to pass. Her leadership has cost the nation untold billions in additional lockdown measures needing to be extended where they could otherwise be relaxed.
When it comes to managing the building of an app someone like Harding doesn't even make the first 500 names on a list, maybe even 5000. We have one of the best tech sectors in the world, the government just needed to ask for help and the industry would have delivered.
That rant would make a little more sense if she had had anything to do with the failed app development.
She took over before it was delivered. If she knew anything about tech she would have cancelled it on day one of the job and tasked them with the current approach, we'd be two weeks away from a beta test if she had. But she's a clueless old person who doesn't know about tech.
Aged 52, with a much better track record of running a large tech company than you have.
In any case this is not a tech development appointment. She's actually mostly running a call centre.
I pointed out her record at TalkTalk was absolutely appalling. You seem to keep ignoring it. Apparently share price is not important, what else do you want to judge a PLC on exactly?
I get I'm not popular on this site and I'm hated by a great number but hearing the same implied attacks on me is wearing a little bin thin.
Basically my opinion is worthless because I'm a leftie but the PB Tories or right wingers on hear are always right. I enjoy it, much rather argue with people I disagree with, I just hate this idea there is anyone on this site who has the wisdom on truth, or who is somehow impartial.
Of course, perhaps I should know better on a pro-Tory site, perhaps the most pro-Tory blog I know of, to be honest.
I think you are great CHB. Keep up the good work! It's interesting that the leftwing posters think it's a Tory site and the rightwing posters think it's a Marxist hellhole (although most of the Marxists seem to work for Boris Johnson these days, go figure). Maybe like the BBC that means it's doing something right. One thing I have noticed is that rightwing posters seem to go in for pile-ons a bit more often, whereas the lefties seem to be a bit more solo operators. Which is kind of the opposite of what one might have expected given their respective attitudes towards the collective vs the individual. Anyway, I think the main thing is to be kind to each other. There's too much hate in the world already.
Good post, much to think about with regards to where the site actually sits as opposed to the perceptions I have of it.
I do like that the owner chimes in occasionally, far too many sites have their owners hiding away somewhere.
It is not always a good idea to have the man with the Ban Hammer weighing in
The place is rombustuous but we all seem to rub along rather then rub each other up. If you think you are having a hard time, dig into the archives and read some of the stuff Roger or Tim caused arguments about.
Whom are these people?
I do like the history of this site and hearing about it but I feel sometimes as though I'll never know or understand it all.
Roger is a PB hero and Tim was an artist formerly known in another parish as GOsbornGenius!
Tim was a complete a*se who makes Eadric look polite IMNSHO. I always suspected he had acne and posted from the small bedroom in his mum's house in L15
Roger is (was??) an advertising type who was so left-wing he made Marx look like a fascist.
Roger I remember with fondness at being proudly left wing but also openly admitted he was a snob who looked down at working class people. A unique character therefore . Many left wingers do look down at working class people of course but they pretend they don't -Roger just admitted it. Tim was tenacious and had a wit equal to eadric ie Both clever and similar in character if not politics
My personal Wogerism was this -
"If you had worked for as many years in Europe with Europeans with all their quirks you too might feel as I do. That we are seprating ourselves from the most culturally exciting varied and beautiful continent in the world for no reason other than some very small minded people don't like foreigners makes me want to vomit.
If you'll forgive the name-drop i remember sitting down to lunch in an outdoor restaurant near Cannes when Boris Becker said 'If you could replace all the French with English this would be the nicest country in the world'."
I always felt Roger was such a caricature of a luvvie. Was he actually real.
The approach to the app was obviously flawed. Max is right, we need fewer doners,cronies and suits. Someone who has built an app, might be a good start.
Such as Simon Thompson, ex-Apple, who is now running it under Dido Harding, for example?
One does have to keep a sense of humour in this lark. An app is developed. It's a duff design and doesn't actually work (as correctly predicted by several PBers right at the start, hat-tip to them). Dido Harding is then appointed to run the track and trace operation, and the duff app is then canned. And Dido Harding is blamed for the original app not working. You really couldn't make it up, could you?
More to the point, why on earth would anyone of talent want to help, if they get brickbats for things which cannot conceivably be their fault? She doesn't exactly need the dosh, does she?
Because there have been weeks in between. It's not as if she was appointed yesterday. She had the power to cancel this failed app on day one. She didn't and now we're going to have to extend lockdown measures at a cost of billions. You're acting as though she's only been there for s few hours and she was just landed with this. That isn't the case, she took over, then the app was released, it's been weeks since then and only now is there a new app bring developed.
The buck stops with her, and had a more tech savvy person been appointed instead of this old person they'd have shit canned the original app and begun development of the new one as soon as they got the job.
You are working backwards from your prejudices. What on earth makes you think that she had authority to can the app on day 1? She wasn't in charge of that bit.
The approach to the app was obviously flawed. Max is right, we need fewer doners,cronies and suits. Someone who has built an app, might be a good start.
Personally I would have called Google and Apple. They say they've never been contacted, why not?
The approach to the app was obviously flawed. Max is right, we need fewer doners,cronies and suits. Someone who has built an app, might be a good start.
Such as Simon Thompson, ex-Apple, who is now running it under Dido Harding, for example?
He ran the online uk store for a bit, this is not Steve Jobs. More marketing than technical. But 🤷♂️, probably can’t do worse.
Most competent organisations don't get hacked by teenagers. The reason they got hacked was because of poor security arrangements, which ultimately she oversaw as head of the company. I therefore question her technical credentials.
Why didn't you answer my other points?
Actually many competent organisations do get hacked by teenagers.
I didn't answer your other points because they were silly. The question being asked was what are her credentials. The answer is, as I said, that they are very good. She has extremely good and relevant experience, including managing change in large organisations, and (very unusually for someone with her breadth of private-sector experience) high-level NHS experience, since 2017.
Her technical credentials are irrelevant. She's not being asked to write software.
I've worked in tech and trust me you want the person in charge to know the tech. It's why software engineers who go into management are so highly sought after. If the company is being run by a clueless old duffer like Harding then there's huge scope for failure, which is where our app is at the moment.
Again, you're acting like she's had this huge successful launch and her critics are just picking at loose threads. It's not the case, the whole project is a disaster. Lots and lots of people who work in tech predicted it would be and exactly why it works be, those situations and reasons came to pass. Her leadership has cost the nation untold billions in additional lockdown measures needing to be extended where they could otherwise be relaxed.
When it comes to managing the building of an app someone like Harding doesn't even make the first 500 names on a list, maybe even 5000. We have one of the best tech sectors in the world, the government just needed to ask for help and the industry would have delivered.
That rant would make a little more sense if she had had anything to do with the failed app development.
She took over before it was delivered. If she knew anything about tech she would have cancelled it on day one of the job and tasked them with the current approach, we'd be two weeks away from a beta test if she had. But she's a clueless old person who doesn't know about tech.
Aged 52, with a much better track record of running a large tech company than you have.
In any case this is not a tech development appointment. She's actually mostly running a call centre.
What tech companies has she run? I used to run a pretty big team at one of the world's premier game developers. I honestly doubt she has as much experience or a better track record (at least in delivering products). If you mean talk talk then that was a disaster, she literally ran it into the ground and that's just an LLU telecoms company, hardly cutting edge technology. Anyway I'm not suggesting I would be the right choice, I've been out of tech for 6 years, I'm more SQL and Python than C++ these days.
Your defence of her is odd but strangely predictable.
I have my own set of views, I'm anti-monarchy, pro a larger state, high investment, etc. But I accept the former is very unpopular, so no tears lost in keeping that one quiet.
I'd like to see a lot of things nationalised ideally but I get in reality its not workable or wanted. Railways enough for me, because I use them.
It's broadband I'd like to see major investment into - but perhaps into a co-operative or some kind of independent Government financed business.
Being anti Monarchy is not a particularly rare view on this site to be fair.
I meant in the general public but take the point about this site.
I think I would be a hypocrite to be pro-monarchy as a social democrat/light socialist, although I do support the immense amount of money they bring in, so I guess I am a hypocrite. Oh well.
Isn't the French REPUBLIC the most visited nation in the world (at least Pre-Lockdown)?
And I am not sure losing the monarchy would cut down tourism to any marked extent, even by monarchy fans, if the London palaces were turned into pure tourist attractions.
France is visited for other reasons than the nature of their Head of State. For Britain however it is a USP - It is the most well known and followed monarchy in the world so people do come to see the heart of it .
But the heart remains after the monarchy goes, and museums at BP and Windsor Castle would be a huge draw.
i think it would fade pretty quickly .Every so often a Royal wedding bumps up the interest (or death) . You cannot have these if no royals
The French seem to do okay without having the world’s most exclusive welfare state as an adjunct to their constitution. Last time I went, Versailles wasn’t struggling for visitors.
The French dont get visitors though because of their Head of State . We do.
The approach to the app was obviously flawed. Max is right, we need fewer doners,cronies and suits. Someone who has built an app, might be a good start.
Such as Simon Thompson, ex-Apple, who is now running it under Dido Harding, for example?
He ran the online uk store for a bit, this is not Steve Jobs. More marketing than technical. But 🤷♂️, probably can’t do worse.
EMEA I think - but he did marketing, not technicals.
They need a technical character, I am sure there would be tonnes lining up for the job. I'd go up for it!
One does have to keep a sense of humour in this lark. An app is developed. It's a duff design and doesn't actually work (as correctly predicted by several PBers right at the start, hat-tip to them). Dido Harding is then appointed to run the track and trace operation, and the duff app is then canned. And Dido Harding is blamed for the original app not working. You really couldn't make it up, could you?
More to the point, why on earth would anyone of talent want to help, if they get brickbats for things which cannot conceivably be their fault? She doesn't exactly need the dosh, does she?
Because there have been weeks in between. It's not as if she was appointed yesterday. She had the power to cancel this failed app on day one. She didn't and now we're going to have to extend lockdown measures at a cost of billions. You're acting as though she's only been there for s few hours and she was just landed with this. That isn't the case, she took over, then the app was released, it's been weeks since then and only now is there a new app bring developed.
The buck stops with her, and had a more tech savvy person been appointed instead of this old person they'd have shit canned the original app and begun development of the new one as soon as they got the job.
You are working backwards from your prejudices. What on earth makes you think that she had authority to can the app on day 1? She wasn't in charge of that bit.
She's in charge of the whole project of track and trace. The buck stops with her, it's obvious she has no understanding of why the approach wouldn't work or she would have stepped in weeks ago and canned it.
Most competent organisations don't get hacked by teenagers. The reason they got hacked was because of poor security arrangements, which ultimately she oversaw as head of the company. I therefore question her technical credentials.
Why didn't you answer my other points?
Actually many competent organisations do get hacked by teenagers.
I didn't answer your other points because they were silly. The question being asked was what are her credentials. The answer is, as I said, that they are very good. She has extremely good and relevant experience, including managing change in large organisations, and (very unusually for someone with her breadth of private-sector experience) high-level NHS experience, since 2017.
Her technical credentials are irrelevant. She's not being asked to write software.
I've worked in tech and trust me you want the person in charge to know the tech. It's why software engineers who go into management are so highly sought after. If the company is being run by a clueless old duffer like Harding then there's huge scope for failure, which is where our app is at the moment.
Again, you're acting like she's had this huge successful launch and her critics are just picking at loose threads. It's not the case, the whole project is a disaster. Lots and lots of people who work in tech predicted it would be and exactly why it works be, those situations and reasons came to pass. Her leadership has cost the nation untold billions in additional lockdown measures needing to be extended where they could otherwise be relaxed.
When it comes to managing the building of an app someone like Harding doesn't even make the first 500 names on a list, maybe even 5000. We have one of the best tech sectors in the world, the government just needed to ask for help and the industry would have delivered.
That rant would make a little more sense if she had had anything to do with the failed app development.
She took over before it was delivered. If she knew anything about tech she would have cancelled it on day one of the job and tasked them with the current approach, we'd be two weeks away from a beta test if she had. But she's a clueless old person who doesn't know about tech.
Aged 52, with a much better track record of running a large tech company than you have.
In any case this is not a tech development appointment. She's actually mostly running a call centre.
What tech companies has she run? I used to run a pretty big team at one of the world's premier game developers. I honestly doubt she has as much experience or a better track record. If you mean talk talk then that was a disaster, she literally ran it into the ground and that's just an LLU telecoms company, hardly cutting edge technology. Anyway I'm not suggesting I would be the right choice, I've been out of tech for 6 years, I'm more SQL and Python than C++ these days.
Your defence of her is odd but strangely predictable.
C++ wouldn't help you on iOS, it's all Swift these days.
The approach to the app was obviously flawed. Max is right, we need fewer doners,cronies and suits. Someone who has built an app, might be a good start.
Such as Simon Thompson, ex-Apple, who is now running it under Dido Harding, for example?
I get I'm not popular on this site and I'm hated by a great number but hearing the same implied attacks on me is wearing a little bin thin.
Basically my opinion is worthless because I'm a leftie but the PB Tories or right wingers on hear are always right. I enjoy it, much rather argue with people I disagree with, I just hate this idea there is anyone on this site who has the wisdom on truth, or who is somehow impartial.
Of course, perhaps I should know better on a pro-Tory site, perhaps the most pro-Tory blog I know of, to be honest.
I think you are great CHB. Keep up the good work! It's interesting that the leftwing posters think it's a Tory site and the rightwing posters think it's a Marxist hellhole (although most of the Marxists seem to work for Boris Johnson these days, go figure). Maybe like the BBC that means it's doing something right. One thing I have noticed is that rightwing posters seem to go in for pile-ons a bit more often, whereas the lefties seem to be a bit more solo operators. Which is kind of the opposite of what one might have expected given their respective attitudes towards the collective vs the individual. Anyway, I think the main thing is to be kind to each other. There's too much hate in the world already.
Good post, much to think about with regards to where the site actually sits as opposed to the perceptions I have of it.
I do like that the owner chimes in occasionally, far too many sites have their owners hiding away somewhere.
It is not always a good idea to have the man with the Ban Hammer weighing in
The place is rombustuous but we all seem to rub along rather then rub each other up. If you think you are having a hard time, dig into the archives and read some of the stuff Roger or Tim caused arguments about.
Whom are these people?
I do like the history of this site and hearing about it but I feel sometimes as though I'll never know or understand it all.
Roger is a PB hero and Tim was an artist formerly known in another parish as GOsbornGenius!
Tim was a complete a*se who makes Eadric look polite IMNSHO. I always suspected he had acne and posted from the small bedroom in his mum's house in L15
Roger is (was??) an advertising type who was so left-wing he made Marx look like a fascist.
Roger I remember with fondness at being proudly left wing but also openly admitted he was a snob who looked down at working class people. A unique character therefore . Many left wingers do look down at working class people of course but they pretend they don't -Roger just admitted it. Tim was tenacious and had a wit equal to eadric ie Both clever and similar in character if not politics
My personal Wogerism was this -
"If you had worked for as many years in Europe with Europeans with all their quirks you too might feel as I do. That we are seprating ourselves from the most culturally exciting varied and beautiful continent in the world for no reason other than some very small minded people don't like foreigners makes me want to vomit.
If you'll forgive the name-drop i remember sitting down to lunch in an outdoor restaurant near Cannes when Boris Becker said 'If you could replace all the French with English this would be the nicest country in the world'."
I always felt Roger was such a caricature of a luvvie. Was he actually real.
His Oscars tips were on point. He must have been in the business. Or preternaturally prescient.
The APIs the German app are using are publicly available, as Google and Apple provided them ages ago.
Instead we've been mucking around with our own implementation for no good reason other than some stupid attempt at glory.
Engineers are a lazy bunch, if something is there and it works, its provided by the people that make the OS you're in a good place to use it. It's what I do.
As they say, don't reinvent the wheel.
The reports suggest they were actually testing both approaches at the same time. The home-grown one was good at differentiating between different distances, but didn't work as well with iPhones. The apple version vice versa.
I thought the Government insisted they were only working on one? This two app approach seems to have appeared since the original was deemed to be a complete failure.
My point is that anyone could see the app would be a failure when it was announced. I said as much at the time.
I don't recall them saying that, but I definitely could have missed it. And indeed, quite a few did!
Hancock said, quite specifically and in some detail, at the press briefing, that they had been working on 2 in parallel. Since the beginning of May.
Testing them against each other was also specifically stated to have happened.
"The NHS has been testing both systems against each other, over the course of the past month.
The centralised version trialled on the Isle of Wight worked well at assessing the distance between two users, but was poor at recognising Apple's iPhones.
Specifically, the software registered about 75% of nearby Android handsets but only 4% of iPhones.
By contrast, the Apple-Google model logged 99% of both Android mobiles and iPhones. But its distance calculations were weaker.
In some instances, it could not differentiate between a phone in a user's pocket 1m (3.3ft) away and a phone in a user's hand 3m (9.8ft) away."
I have my own set of views, I'm anti-monarchy, pro a larger state, high investment, etc. But I accept the former is very unpopular, so no tears lost in keeping that one quiet.
I'd like to see a lot of things nationalised ideally but I get in reality its not workable or wanted. Railways enough for me, because I use them.
It's broadband I'd like to see major investment into - but perhaps into a co-operative or some kind of independent Government financed business.
Being anti Monarchy is not a particularly rare view on this site to be fair.
I meant in the general public but take the point about this site.
I think I would be a hypocrite to be pro-monarchy as a social democrat/light socialist, although I do support the immense amount of money they bring in, so I guess I am a hypocrite. Oh well.
Isn't the French REPUBLIC the most visited nation in the world (at least Pre-Lockdown)?
And I am not sure losing the monarchy would cut down tourism to any marked extent, even by monarchy fans, if the London palaces were turned into pure tourist attractions.
France is visited for other reasons than the nature of their Head of State. For Britain however it is a USP - It is the most well known and followed monarchy in the world so people do come to see the heart of it .
But the heart remains after the monarchy goes, and museums at BP and Windsor Castle would be a huge draw.
i think it would fade pretty quickly .Every so often a Royal wedding bumps up the interest (or death) . You cannot have these if no royals
The French seem to do okay without having the world’s most exclusive welfare state as an adjunct to their constitution. Last time I went, Versailles wasn’t struggling for visitors.
The French dont get visitors though because of their Head of State . We do.
The APIs the German app are using are publicly available, as Google and Apple provided them ages ago.
Instead we've been mucking around with our own implementation for no good reason other than some stupid attempt at glory.
Engineers are a lazy bunch, if something is there and it works, its provided by the people that make the OS you're in a good place to use it. It's what I do.
As they say, don't reinvent the wheel.
The reports suggest they were actually testing both approaches at the same time. The home-grown one was good at differentiating between different distances, but didn't work as well with iPhones. The apple version vice versa.
I thought the Government insisted they were only working on one? This two app approach seems to have appeared since the original was deemed to be a complete failure.
My point is that anyone could see the app would be a failure when it was announced. I said as much at the time.
I don't recall them saying that, but I definitely could have missed it. And indeed, quite a few did!
Hancock said, quite specifically and in some detail, at the press briefing, that they had been working on 2 in parallel. Since the beginning of May.
Testing them against each other was also specifically stated to have happened.
"The NHS has been testing both systems against each other, over the course of the past month.
The centralised version trialled on the Isle of Wight worked well at assessing the distance between two users, but was poor at recognising Apple's iPhones.
Specifically, the software registered about 75% of nearby Android handsets but only 4% of iPhones.
By contrast, the Apple-Google model logged 99% of both Android mobiles and iPhones. But its distance calculations were weaker.
In some instances, it could not differentiate between a phone in a user's pocket 1m (3.3ft) away and a phone in a user's hand 3m (9.8ft) away."
Apparently it didn’t know where Dover was, but could tune into Game of Thrones.
Most competent organisations don't get hacked by teenagers. The reason they got hacked was because of poor security arrangements, which ultimately she oversaw as head of the company. I therefore question her technical credentials.
Why didn't you answer my other points?
Actually many competent organisations do get hacked by teenagers.
I didn't answer your other points because they were silly. The question being asked was what are her credentials. The answer is, as I said, that they are very good. She has extremely good and relevant experience, including managing change in large organisations, and (very unusually for someone with her breadth of private-sector experience) high-level NHS experience, since 2017.
Her technical credentials are irrelevant. She's not being asked to write software.
I've worked in tech and trust me you want the person in charge to know the tech. It's why software engineers who go into management are so highly sought after. If the company is being run by a clueless old duffer like Harding then there's huge scope for failure, which is where our app is at the moment.
Again, you're acting like she's had this huge successful launch and her critics are just picking at loose threads. It's not the case, the whole project is a disaster. Lots and lots of people who work in tech predicted it would be and exactly why it works be, those situations and reasons came to pass. Her leadership has cost the nation untold billions in additional lockdown measures needing to be extended where they could otherwise be relaxed.
When it comes to managing the building of an app someone like Harding doesn't even make the first 500 names on a list, maybe even 5000. We have one of the best tech sectors in the world, the government just needed to ask for help and the industry would have delivered.
That rant would make a little more sense if she had had anything to do with the failed app development.
She took over before it was delivered. If she knew anything about tech she would have cancelled it on day one of the job and tasked them with the current approach, we'd be two weeks away from a beta test if she had. But she's a clueless old person who doesn't know about tech.
Aged 52, with a much better track record of running a large tech company than you have.
In any case this is not a tech development appointment. She's actually mostly running a call centre.
What tech companies has she run? I used to run a pretty big team at one of the world's premier game developers. I honestly doubt she has as much experience or a better track record. If you mean talk talk then that was a disaster, she literally ran it into the ground and that's just an LLU telecoms company, hardly cutting edge technology. Anyway I'm not suggesting I would be the right choice, I've been out of tech for 6 years, I'm more SQL and Python than C++ these days.
Your defence of her is odd but strangely predictable.
C++ wouldn't help you on iOS, it's all Swift these days.
Yeah, I did actually do a concept of the PS4 remote play app for iOS years ago which was objective C, I basically had to learn it overnight and then never use it again. It was the turning point of when I switched careers away from software development into banking. I didn't want to become part of the app development team instead of the game development team.
One does have to keep a sense of humour in this lark. An app is developed. It's a duff design and doesn't actually work (as correctly predicted by several PBers right at the start, hat-tip to them). Dido Harding is then appointed to run the track and trace operation, and the duff app is then canned. And Dido Harding is blamed for the original app not working. You really couldn't make it up, could you?
More to the point, why on earth would anyone of talent want to help, if they get brickbats for things which cannot conceivably be their fault? She doesn't exactly need the dosh, does she?
Because there have been weeks in between. It's not as if she was appointed yesterday. She had the power to cancel this failed app on day one. She didn't and now we're going to have to extend lockdown measures at a cost of billions. You're acting as though she's only been there for s few hours and she was just landed with this. That isn't the case, she took over, then the app was released, it's been weeks since then and only now is there a new app bring developed.
The buck stops with her, and had a more tech savvy person been appointed instead of this old person they'd have shit canned the original app and begun development of the new one as soon as they got the job.
You are working backwards from your prejudices. What on earth makes you think that she had authority to can the app on day 1? She wasn't in charge of that bit.
She's in charge of the whole project of track and trace. The buck stops with her, it's obvious she has no understanding of why the approach wouldn't work or she would have stepped in weeks ago and canned it.
Should have been reading pb.com many weeks ago. This was all predicted, in some detail.
This government is proving that rhetoric, spin and cronyism doesn’t really get you all that far when you come up against real things like science and engineering. Goodnight.
Brazil +50k new cases today. Even the US only touched 40k at peak.
Make that 55k.
The scary thing is the Brazilians have finally upped their testing - most other countries that have done that get a small increase in cases, with a hefty drop in positives ratio. Brazil has just found bazillions more cases instead.
Comments
Why didn't you answer my other points?
Perhaps I overreact, but posts which aay this sort of thing - and absolutely nothing else - irritate the fuck out of me
"There has been some comedy gold from some PB Tories on this thread. Well done!"
A Mick Pork inspired gag which has long outlived its freshness. Then again as I hardly regard myself as a tory any more, perhaps I shouldn't mind. But anyone posting that sort of thing needs to think about glass houses, and the tolerability of heat in kitchens.
But now that all these countries and governments had got involved, it wasn't cool anymore.
Funny old world.
I didn't answer your other points because they were silly. The question being asked was what are her credentials. The answer is, as I said, that they are very good. She has extremely good and relevant experience, including managing change in large organisations, and (very unusually for someone with her breadth of private-sector experience) high-level NHS experience, since 2017.
Her technical credentials are irrelevant. She's not being asked to write software.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_rankings
And I am not sure losing the monarchy would cut down tourism to any marked extent, even by monarchy fans, if the London palaces were turned into pure tourist attractions.
What's that got to do with anything? Why are you personally attacking me?
She doesn't have good technical credentials, or good management credentials, as I pointed out to you.
The thing she actually ran herself, she fudged up epically. I wouldn't trust her to run a bath.
Of course the fact she has close links to the Tory Party can't be anything to do with it though right. Right?
Roger is (was??) an advertising type who was so left-wing he made Marx look like a fascist.
Are you person number three, or did you come under my previous list?
Again, you're acting like she's had this huge successful launch and her critics are just picking at loose threads. It's not the case, the whole project is a disaster. Lots and lots of people who work in tech predicted it would be and exactly why it works be, those situations and reasons came to pass. Her leadership has cost the nation untold billions in additional lockdown measures needing to be extended where they could otherwise be relaxed.
When it comes to managing the building of an app someone like Harding doesn't even make the first 500 names on a list, maybe even 5000. We have one of the best tech sectors in the world, the government just needed to ask for help and the industry would have delivered.
If you'll read my original post, I said she was *now* on the case.
And sorry.
A classic of the 'I'm stupid' defence which politicians only ever use when the alternative is even worse. See also Corbyn's 'I never looked at the mural' defence, since despite the efforts of some (including on here) his people obviously decided defending the world's greatest anti-racist not getting the implications of the mural would not fly.
Lammy, admittedly, seems to have no middle ground between making good points and utterly terrible ones.
Instead we've been mucking around with our own implementation for no good reason other than some stupid attempt at glory.
Engineers are a lazy bunch, if something is there and it works, its provided by the people that make the OS you're in a good place to use it. It's what I do.
As they say, don't reinvent the wheel.
More to the point, why on earth would anyone of talent want to help, if they get brickbats for things which cannot conceivably be their fault? She doesn't exactly need the dosh, does she?
My point is that anyone could see the app would be a failure when it was announced. I said as much at the time.
We should have used the Apple/Google APIs from day one and been done with it.
In any case this is not a tech development appointment. She's actually mostly running a call centre.
"If you had worked for as many years in Europe with Europeans with all their quirks you too might feel as I do. That we are seprating ourselves from the most culturally exciting varied and beautiful continent in the world for no reason other than some very small minded people don't like foreigners makes me want to vomit.
If you'll forgive the name-drop i remember sitting down to lunch in an outdoor restaurant near Cannes when Boris Becker said 'If you could replace all the French with English this would be the nicest country in the world'."
"Sorry there's no money left."
PB Tories, should be an instant expulsion right? What is to investigate?
Perhaps we should ask her...
The buck stops with her, and had a more tech savvy person been appointed instead of this old person they'd have shit canned the original app and begun development of the new one as soon as they got the job.
https://twitter.com/cspan/status/1274040669057712131
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-13960349
Marketing...
Your defence of her is odd but strangely predictable.
They need a technical character, I am sure there would be tonnes lining up for the job. I'd go up for it!
Or preternaturally prescient.
Testing them against each other was also specifically stated to have happened.
From https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53095336
"The NHS has been testing both systems against each other, over the course of the past month.
The centralised version trialled on the Isle of Wight worked well at assessing the distance between two users, but was poor at recognising Apple's iPhones.
Specifically, the software registered about 75% of nearby Android handsets but only 4% of iPhones.
By contrast, the Apple-Google model logged 99% of both Android mobiles and iPhones. But its distance calculations were weaker.
In some instances, it could not differentiate between a phone in a user's pocket 1m (3.3ft) away and a phone in a user's hand 3m (9.8ft) away."
The scary thing is the Brazilians have finally upped their testing - most other countries that have done that get a small increase in cases, with a hefty drop in positives ratio. Brazil has just found bazillions more cases instead.