There's something beyond parody about the 'patriotic' use of the Confederate flag in parts of American public life - or naming American military bases after secessionist military leaders. It'd be like having an RAF Hermann Goring.
More like RAF Nicola Sturgeon
Surely more like RAF Roundhead?
Not a traitor. Cromwell won!
There was a tank named Cromwell in WW2, and Churchill wanted to name a warship after the Lord Protector - IIRC the King expressed his dissatisfaction.
Mind the British did name US-produced tank after Lee and Stuart - but made up for it with the Grant and Sherman.
Well that's a thread right there. It's not particularly "my" period, but are there not parallels with the Confederacy in that he was pretty brutal to one set of Brits, while now in the UK we are all Brits rather than Roundhead or Cavalier?
What he did of course for parliamentary democracy meanwhile is not in doubt.
I guess the main difference was it wasn't a "sectional" war in England at least. No region, class, interest or profession was wholly associated with one side or the other. You could not tell, therefore who had fought on which side. And the vast majority were neither. Which made it easier to re-unite at Restoration. Highly simplified of course.
Its just numbing that this is happening now. As opposed to 50 years ago. Deeply, deeply weird country. It makes me very cautious about what should be a no brainer if they were even half rational.
Many of the South's soldiers had no slaves or no stake in slavery. They were fighting because ''y'all are down here.''
Many slave owners did not participate in the war.
I think some think they can sympathise with the bravery of the ordinary soldier of the South whilst still disagreeing with the cause??
Oh sure. And the way the US was able to reconcile after the war was remarkable in many ways despite the moaning about the reconstruction.
The US 'reconciled' by the North giving in to Southern terrorism. From the moment Lincoln was shot and Andrew Johnson took over the whole process was compromised. Reconstruction was abandoned due to the North giving in to Southern criminal terrorism and political obstructionism.
Oh for President Biden to declare the KKK a terrorist organisation.....
I wonder whether Trump could pull out rather than face what appears to be a big defeat.
This is way beyond fear of embarrassment. Trump needs control of the Justice Department to stay out of jail. I doubt anyone could convince him that Pence had a better chance of doing that for him.
He'll fight dirty, hold onto his base, and try to stop Democrats from voting. The trouble with voting in Georgia shows that he'd be pushing on an open door there. The maladministration of elections in the US is on an epic scale already.
I sometimes wonder if I’m a classical liberal, libertarian or a bit of a secret radical.
However, I keep coming back to the fact I’m really a conservative. There are one-nation Conservatives like David Herdson and DavidL, liberal Conservatives like TSE and praetorian Thatcherites like HD2.
I am basically a shire Tory. It’s why I always had a soft spot for David Cameron, despite getting very frustrated with him at times.
Gandhi a racist? I thought he successfully led 500 million BAME people to independence from the Evil Colonial Jackboot??
I think the worst thing Gandhi said was that the way for Jews to demonstrate their moral superiority over the Nazis was for them to enter the gas chambers willingly.
"Was Mahatma Gandhi a racist? Soutik Biswas Delhi correspondent 17 September 2015"
There's something beyond parody about the 'patriotic' use of the Confederate flag in parts of American public life - or naming American military bases after secessionist military leaders. It'd be like having an RAF Hermann Goring.
More like RAF Nicola Sturgeon
In what way ?
Try as you might, there is simply no British parallel for the leaders who led a regional rebellion solely in defence of the institution of slavery - and whose followers, who in defeat, spent the next century or so doing everything they could to deny former slaves and their descendants the vote, with that flag as their emblem.
Its just numbing that this is happening now. As opposed to 50 years ago. Deeply, deeply weird country. It makes me very cautious about what should be a no brainer if they were even half rational.
Many of the South's soldiers had no slaves or no stake in slavery. They were fighting because ''y'all are down here.''
Many slave owners did not participate in the war.
I think some think they can sympathise with the bravery of the ordinary soldier of the South whilst still disagreeing with the cause??
Just like how we in the UK like to wave Nazi flags at sporting events to commemorate the bravery of the ordinary soldier of Nazi Germany, whilst still disagreeing with the cause.
That's a poor parallel firstly because we aren't German.
Its also a poor parallel because the southern soldiers were mostly simply that. Soldiers. There was a striking lack of einsatzgruppen and SS divisions in their midst. A striking lack of NKVD too, for that matter.
Black troops fighting for the Union could expect pretty short shrift if they surrendered, and I'd say there were similarities between the guerilla units of the Confederacy and the SS in their actions if not the scale. Of course one of those 'simple soldiers' was a founder member of the KKK.
Gandhi a racist? I thought he successfully led 500 million BAME people to independence from the Evil Colonial Jackboot??
I think the worst thing Gandhi said was that the way for Jews to demonstrate their moral superiority over the Nazis was for them to enter the gas chambers willingly.
Gandhi assumed that all empires were susceptible to the same sort of moral pressure of peaceful non-violent resistance that the British were.
If he’d done that virtually anywhere else at the time he’d have been tortured and killed.
It’s a remark on the morality of the British (who were still very far from perfect) at the time that he was able to end its empire in India in the 1930s and 1940s in the way he did.
If my memory serves me right Ghandi once remarked that if you had to be colonised it would be best if the British did it to you.
I am not sure this would meet with universal agreement but you can kind of see where he was coming from.
I honestly don't understand how anyone could say the Confederate flag isn't racist. It may also stand for other things but I don't think you can say racism isn't one of them.
As far as I can see the rate of decline has been super consistent since the peak. Here's UK figures, all settings, by actual date of death, from the "2nd peak" (ie the care home peak) on 17/april, until latest available figures 29/may:
There's a dog not barking here, isn't there?
Despite the sunny weekends, the cautious unlockdown, the Cummings effect (real or perceived), VE day, and everything else, nothing has apparently changed. At all.
There's something beyond parody about the 'patriotic' use of the Confederate flag in parts of American public life - or naming American military bases after secessionist military leaders. It'd be like having an RAF Hermann Goring.
More like RAF Nicola Sturgeon
Surely more like RAF Roundhead?
Not a traitor. Cromwell won!
There was a tank named Cromwell in WW2, and Churchill wanted to name a warship after the Lord Protector - IIRC the King expressed his dissatisfaction.
Mind the British did name US-produced tank after Lee and Stuart - but made up for it with the Grant and Sherman.
Well that's a thread right there. It's not particularly "my" period, but are there not parallels with the Confederacy in that he was pretty brutal to one set of Brits, while now in the UK we are all Brits rather than Roundhead or Cavalier?
What he did of course for parliamentary democracy meanwhile is not in doubt.
Gandhi a racist? I thought he successfully led 500 million BAME people to independence from the Evil Colonial Jackboot??
I think the worst thing Gandhi said was that the way for Jews to demonstrate their moral superiority over the Nazis was for them to enter the gas chambers willingly.
Gandhi assumed that all empires were susceptible to the same sort of moral pressure of peaceful non-violent resistance that the British were.
If he’d done that virtually anywhere else at the time he’d have been tortured and killed.
It’s a remark on the morality of the British (who were still very far from perfect) at the time that he was able to end its empire in India in the 1930s and 1940s in the way he did.
"In 1906, when the British declared war against the Zulu Kingdom in Natal, Gandhi at age 36, sympathised with the Zulus and encouraged the Indian volunteers to help as an ambulance unit.[84] He argued that Indians should participate in the war efforts to change attitudes and perceptions of the British people against the coloured people.[85] Gandhi, a group of 20 Indians and black people of South Africa volunteered as a stretcher-bearer corps to treat wounded British soldiers and the opposite side of the war: Zulu victims.[84]
"White soldiers stopped Gandhi and team from treating the injured Zulu, and some African stretcher-bearers with Gandhi were shot dead by the British. The medical team commanded by Gandhi operated for less than two months.[84] Gandhi volunteering to help as a "staunch loyalist" during the Zulu and other wars made no difference in the British attitude, states Herman, and the African experience was a part of his great disillusionment with the West, transforming him into an "uncompromising non-cooperator".[85]
"In 1910, Gandhi established, with the help of his friend Hermann Kallenbach, an idealistic community they named Tolstoy Farm near Johannesburg.[86] There he nurtured his policy of peaceful resistance.[87]
"In the years after black South Africans gained the right to vote in South Africa (1994), Gandhi was proclaimed a national hero with numerous monuments.[88]"
I sometimes wonder if I’m a classical liberal, libertarian or a bit of a secret radical.
However, I keep coming back to the fact I’m really a conservative. There are one-nation Conservatives like David Herdson and DavidL, liberal Conservatives like TSE and praetorian Thatcherites like HD2.
I am basically a shire Tory. It’s why I always had a soft spot for David Cameron, despite getting very frustrated with him at times.
I like to make my mind up on things on a case by case basis - which feels unusual in today's day and age.
I wonder whether Trump could pull out rather than face what appears to be a big defeat.
This is way beyond fear of embarrassment. Trump needs control of the Justice Department to stay out of jail. I doubt anyone could convince him that Pence had a better chance of doing that for him.
He'll fight dirty, hold onto his base, and try to stop Democrats from voting. The trouble with voting in Georgia shows that he'd be pushing on an open door there. The maladministration of elections in the US is on an epic scale already.
Yes, he can't win a "free and fair" vote so the focus must be to try and make sure it is neither. Can't see that working enough to flip the outcome, personally, but it might impact the margin. And then of course - if it does look remotely close - he will claim electoral fraud against him and refuse to concede. All in all, a messy few months ahead. But it will, I am certain, end with his removal from office.
There's something beyond parody about the 'patriotic' use of the Confederate flag in parts of American public life - or naming American military bases after secessionist military leaders. It'd be like having an RAF Hermann Goring.
More like RAF Nicola Sturgeon
In what way ?
Try as you might, there is simply no British parallel for the leaders who led a regional rebellion solely in defence of the institution of slavery - and whose followers, who in defeat, spent the next century or so doing everything they could to deny former slaves and their descendants the vote, with that flag as their emblem.
No, no, RAF Sturgeon is a good analogy, while comparing murderous, racially motivated white supremacists to the SS is a very bad one. Obvious when you think about it.
Many years ago I went to a lecture on the development of the intelligence and security apparatus in this country. It included a discussion of names and abbreviations. It is forever burned into my memory for the deadpan wit involved.
'The organisation most people know as MI6 is properly the Secret Intelligence Service and prefers to be known as the SIS. Their counterpart, called MI5, is officially the Security Service, and prefers to be known as MI5.'
Trump is the second-worst President of all time, only Andrew Jackson is worse.
Even if Biden had a 30 point lead in the polls I wouldn't want to take anything for granted. Like a proverbial monster in a horror movie, we can't take it on faith that Trump won't rise and strike again.
Not taking anything for granted until the results are in.
There's quite a cottage industry built around the assessment of all the Presidents to date. Wikipedia is your friend here with an extensive summary:
There is a surprising amount of agreement amongst the experts and the pollsters. Not surprisingly, Washington and Lincoln score consistently well: Harding, Buchanan and Andrew Johnson do badly.
Trump hasn't got enough form to go on but early indications are that he will be jostling Harding et al for a place at the bottom.
Indeed. I think Buchanan is unfairly pilloried - the country was irreconcilable and Civil War was building up with or without him. Similar to WWI both sides just didn't want to compromise enough.
Harding I think is unfortunate to be judged for his affair (which I couldn't care less about), his premature death and what was revealed about the corruption of others following his death in what was a very corrupt era following the Volstadt Act. As far as I know Harding wasn't himself corrupt was he?
Andrew Jackson wholeheartedly deserves his reputation for the Trail of Tears - one of America's darkest moments.
Trump to me is worse than Harding and Buchanan but not yet at Jackson levels.
But is an avowed fan of Jackson, so the aspiration is certainly there...
As far as I can see the rate of decline has been super consistent since the peak. Here's UK figures, all settings, by actual date of death, from the "2nd peak" (ie the care home peak) on 17/april, until latest available figures 29/may:
There's a dog not barking here, isn't there?
Despite the sunny weekends, the cautious unlockdown, the Cummings effect (real or perceived), VE day, and everything else, nothing has apparently changed. At all.
Hypothetically I think it'd be hard to eyeball a graph and recognise a change from, say, R=0.6 to R=0.8 over a week or two.
If the Confederate flag is a flag of "Southern Pride" as often attested, why don't minorities in the South not wave it? And why do certain kinds of Northerner do so? Because it isn't.
Its just numbing that this is happening now. As opposed to 50 years ago. Deeply, deeply weird country. It makes me very cautious about what should be a no brainer if they were even half rational.
Many of the South's soldiers had no slaves or no stake in slavery. They were fighting because ''y'all are down here.''
Many slave owners did not participate in the war.
I think some think they can sympathise with the bravery of the ordinary soldier of the South whilst still disagreeing with the cause??
Just like how we in the UK like to wave Nazi flags at sporting events to commemorate the bravery of the ordinary soldier of Nazi Germany, whilst still disagreeing with the cause.
That's a poor parallel firstly because we aren't German.
Its also a poor parallel because the southern soldiers were mostly simply that. Soldiers. There was a striking lack of einsatzgruppen and SS divisions in their midst. A striking lack of NKVD too, for that matter.
Black troops fighting for the Union could expect pretty short shrift if they surrendered, and I'd say there were similarities between the guerilla units of the Confederacy and the SS in their actions if not the scale. Of course one of those 'simple soldiers' was a founder member of the KKK.
I'm not defending flying the confederate flag. I'd never do it or stand under it. Somebody asked why it lasted so long, and I suggested an explanation.
And then of course - if it does look remotely close - he will claim electoral fraud against him and refuse to concede.
I really don't think this would happen. He might make some noise about it being illegitimate (in fact I'm sure it'd feature somewhere in his rambling at some point), but I don't see him making any serious attempt to remain in power.
I sometimes wonder if I’m a classical liberal, libertarian or a bit of a secret radical.
However, I keep coming back to the fact I’m really a conservative. There are one-nation Conservatives like David Herdson and DavidL, liberal Conservatives like TSE and praetorian Thatcherites like HD2.
I am basically a shire Tory. It’s why I always had a soft spot for David Cameron, despite getting very frustrated with him at times.
HD2 - now there's a blast from the past. I think I'm right in saying he was the first person ever to get the ban hammer on PB.
As far as I can see the rate of decline has been super consistent since the peak. Here's UK figures, all settings, by actual date of death, from the "2nd peak" (ie the care home peak) on 17/april, until latest available figures 29/may:
There's a dog not barking here, isn't there?
Despite the sunny weekends, the cautious unlockdown, the Cummings effect (real or perceived), VE day, and everything else, nothing has apparently changed. At all.
Hypothetically I think it'd be hard to eyeball a graph and recognise a change from, say, R=0.6 to R=0.8 over a week or two.
True. It needs a log graph.
I assumed the fitted line was an exponential decay, but haven't checked.
As far as I can see the rate of decline has been super consistent since the peak. Here's UK figures, all settings, by actual date of death, from the "2nd peak" (ie the care home peak) on 17/april, until latest available figures 29/may:
There's a dog not barking here, isn't there?
Despite the sunny weekends, the cautious unlockdown, the Cummings effect (real or perceived), VE day, and everything else, nothing has apparently changed. At all.
Absolutely right.
I keep saying on here (few take notice, but some do) that the fabled April warm spell was the first of several silent hounds.
It's worth looking back at the PB threads and the absolute certainty in which the Lockdown Extremists assured us that 'dickheads in London' (aka people with small flats and no gardens) would have blood on their hands etc etc because they sat in the park with their mates.
On the contrary, it's perfectly comprehensible Lowlands Scots - no worse than, say, Barnes's Dorset poems.
Perhaps beyond the Wall of Caucasus I'll hide from your secret Pashas, from those quick/bright eyes that always see all, the ears that miss nothing at all.
The one thing that niggles is 'derne' which I don't recognise - it may just be my memory but a quick check of the DSL Dictionar o the Scots Leid/Dictionary of the Scots Language suggests it is an archaic word indeed.
And it may be my imagination but there's something slightly off to my ear. If my fellowScots on PB confirm this then I wonder if it was written partly from a dictionary by a Russian?
I honestly don't understand how anyone could say the Confederate flag isn't racist. It may also stand for other things but I don't think you can say racism isn't one of them.
Only if you think that Alexander Stephens had no idea about why the Confederacy was formed...
I sometimes wonder if I’m a classical liberal, libertarian or a bit of a secret radical.
However, I keep coming back to the fact I’m really a conservative. There are one-nation Conservatives like David Herdson and DavidL, liberal Conservatives like TSE and praetorian Thatcherites like HD2.
I am basically a shire Tory. It’s why I always had a soft spot for David Cameron, despite getting very frustrated with him at times.
It is possible to a Thatcherite and a Liberal Tory.
I fully signed up to her economic and labour reforms.
I also endorse most of her social views, it was only at the end that she went mad on Section 28, but she supported the decriminalisation of homosexuality via the Leo Abse bill. In fact one of her earliest acts was to civilise the Scots and Northern Irish and decriminalised homosexuality there.
This isn't a troll, but one of her finest acts as PM was to help create the Single Market.
I sometimes wonder if I’m a classical liberal, libertarian or a bit of a secret radical.
However, I keep coming back to the fact I’m really a conservative. There are one-nation Conservatives like David Herdson and DavidL, liberal Conservatives like TSE and praetorian Thatcherites like HD2.
I am basically a shire Tory. It’s why I always had a soft spot for David Cameron, despite getting very frustrated with him at times.
HD2 - now there's a blast from the past. I think I'm right in saying he was the first person ever to get the ban hammer on PB.
He follows me on twitter and occasionally seeks to set me right. He remains just as affable as ever.
Many years ago I went to a lecture on the development of the intelligence and security apparatus in this country. It included a discussion of names and abbreviations. It is forever burned into my memory for the deadpan wit involved.
'The organisation most people know as MI6 is properly the Secret Intelligence Service and prefers to be known as the SIS. Their counterpart, called MI5, is officially the Security Service, and prefers to be known as MI5.'
Given Trump's rapidly expanding lunacies, 'S.S. GREAT JOB' might just refer to an imaginary Mississippi steamboat ?
As far as I can see the rate of decline has been super consistent since the peak. Here's UK figures, all settings, by actual date of death, from the "2nd peak" (ie the care home peak) on 17/april, until latest available figures 29/may:
Despite the sunny weekends, the cautious unlockdown, the Cummings effect (real or perceived), VE day, and everything else, nothing has apparently changed. At all.
Hypothetically I think it'd be hard to eyeball a graph and recognise a change from, say, R=0.6 to R=0.8 over a week or two.
It was 26c down here on the Easter weekend (10-13 April!) and everyone took the absolute piss out of the lockdown.
We were assured that that was a ticking time bomb in the figures.
I sometimes wonder if I’m a classical liberal, libertarian or a bit of a secret radical.
However, I keep coming back to the fact I’m really a conservative. There are one-nation Conservatives like David Herdson and DavidL, liberal Conservatives like TSE and praetorian Thatcherites like HD2.
I am basically a shire Tory. It’s why I always had a soft spot for David Cameron, despite getting very frustrated with him at times.
I like to make my mind up on things on a case by case basis - which feels unusual in today's day and age.
I think most of us do but we all have a certain perspective on the world, and that probably most accurately summarises mine.
I honestly don't understand how anyone could say the Confederate flag isn't racist. It may also stand for other things but I don't think you can say racism isn't one of them.
It's the same way you could argue the British flag is racist because of colonial behaviour and slavery in the past.
But it means more to us than that and it means more to those people too.
Every flag has had bad things done under its name at some time.
I sometimes wonder if I’m a classical liberal, libertarian or a bit of a secret radical.
However, I keep coming back to the fact I’m really a conservative. There are one-nation Conservatives like David Herdson and DavidL, liberal Conservatives like TSE and praetorian Thatcherites like HD2.
I am basically a shire Tory. It’s why I always had a soft spot for David Cameron, despite getting very frustrated with him at times.
It is possible to a Thatcherite and a Liberal Tory.
I fully signed up to her economic and labour reforms.
I also endorse most of her social views, it was only at the end that she went mad on Section 28, but she supported the decriminalisation of homosexuality via the Leo Abse bill. In fact one of her earliest acts was to civilise the Scots and Northern Irish and decriminalised homosexuality there.
This isn't a troll, but one of her finest acts as PM was to help create the Single Market.
The Single Market is brilliant, it's just that we managed our participation in it post-2004 very badly.
And then of course - if it does look remotely close - he will claim electoral fraud against him and refuse to concede.
I really don't think this would happen. He might make some noise about it being illegitimate (in fact I'm sure it'd feature somewhere in his rambling at some point), but I don't see him making any serious attempt to remain in power.
What happens next?
I would like to see Trump prosecuted for misconduct in office and imprisoned for a serious stretch, not on vindictive grounds but to put down a marker for his successors that presidential actions have consequences. I imagine others feel the same. How does this affect his next move in the event he loses in November?
I sometimes wonder if I’m a classical liberal, libertarian or a bit of a secret radical.
However, I keep coming back to the fact I’m really a conservative. There are one-nation Conservatives like David Herdson and DavidL, liberal Conservatives like TSE and praetorian Thatcherites like HD2.
I am basically a shire Tory. It’s why I always had a soft spot for David Cameron, despite getting very frustrated with him at times.
HD2 - now there's a blast from the past. I think I'm right in saying he was the first person ever to get the ban hammer on PB.
He follows me on twitter and occasionally seeks to set me right. He remains just as affable as ever.
One sometimes yearns for the mostly harmless nuttiness of HD2.
And then of course - if it does look remotely close - he will claim electoral fraud against him and refuse to concede.
I really don't think this would happen. He might make some noise about it being illegitimate (in fact I'm sure it'd feature somewhere in his rambling at some point), but I don't see him making any serious attempt to remain in power.
What is it about his behaviour so far that would suggest such a temperate, wise, magnanimous, rational and gracious exit? I'm not convinced.
Gandhi a racist? I thought he successfully led 500 million BAME people to independence from the Evil Colonial Jackboot??
I think the worst thing Gandhi said was that the way for Jews to demonstrate their moral superiority over the Nazis was for them to enter the gas chambers willingly.
Gandhi assumed that all empires were susceptible to the same sort of moral pressure of peaceful non-violent resistance that the British were.
If he’d done that virtually anywhere else at the time he’d have been tortured and killed.
It’s a remark on the morality of the British (who were still very far from perfect) at the time that he was able to end its empire in India in the 1930s and 1940s in the way he did.
"In 1906, when the British declared war against the Zulu Kingdom in Natal, Gandhi at age 36, sympathised with the Zulus and encouraged the Indian volunteers to help as an ambulance unit.[84] He argued that Indians should participate in the war efforts to change attitudes and perceptions of the British people against the coloured people.[85] Gandhi, a group of 20 Indians and black people of South Africa volunteered as a stretcher-bearer corps to treat wounded British soldiers and the opposite side of the war: Zulu victims.[84]
"White soldiers stopped Gandhi and team from treating the injured Zulu, and some African stretcher-bearers with Gandhi were shot dead by the British. The medical team commanded by Gandhi operated for less than two months.[84] Gandhi volunteering to help as a "staunch loyalist" during the Zulu and other wars made no difference in the British attitude, states Herman, and the African experience was a part of his great disillusionment with the West, transforming him into an "uncompromising non-cooperator".[85]
"In 1910, Gandhi established, with the help of his friend Hermann Kallenbach, an idealistic community they named Tolstoy Farm near Johannesburg.[86] There he nurtured his policy of peaceful resistance.[87]
"In the years after black South Africans gained the right to vote in South Africa (1994), Gandhi was proclaimed a national hero with numerous monuments.[88]"
Gandhi started off wanting Indian self-governance within the British Empire, just as was the policy for other white colonies, and happily sung God Save the Queen.
It was his personal experiences of racism that changed his view on that.
Gandhi a racist? I thought he successfully led 500 million BAME people to independence from the Evil Colonial Jackboot??
I think the worst thing Gandhi said was that the way for Jews to demonstrate their moral superiority over the Nazis was for them to enter the gas chambers willingly.
Gandhi assumed that all empires were susceptible to the same sort of moral pressure of peaceful non-violent resistance that the British were.
If he’d done that virtually anywhere else at the time he’d have been tortured and killed.
It’s a remark on the morality of the British (who were still very far from perfect) at the time that he was able to end its empire in India in the 1930s and 1940s in the way he did.
"In 1906, when the British declared war against the Zulu Kingdom in Natal, Gandhi at age 36, sympathised with the Zulus and encouraged the Indian volunteers to help as an ambulance unit.[84] He argued that Indians should participate in the war efforts to change attitudes and perceptions of the British people against the coloured people.[85] Gandhi, a group of 20 Indians and black people of South Africa volunteered as a stretcher-bearer corps to treat wounded British soldiers and the opposite side of the war: Zulu victims.[84]
"White soldiers stopped Gandhi and team from treating the injured Zulu, and some African stretcher-bearers with Gandhi were shot dead by the British. The medical team commanded by Gandhi operated for less than two months.[84] Gandhi volunteering to help as a "staunch loyalist" during the Zulu and other wars made no difference in the British attitude, states Herman, and the African experience was a part of his great disillusionment with the West, transforming him into an "uncompromising non-cooperator".[85]
"In 1910, Gandhi established, with the help of his friend Hermann Kallenbach, an idealistic community they named Tolstoy Farm near Johannesburg.[86] There he nurtured his policy of peaceful resistance.[87]
"In the years after black South Africans gained the right to vote in South Africa (1994), Gandhi was proclaimed a national hero with numerous monuments.[88]"
Gandhi started off wanting Indian self-governance within the British Empire, just as was the policy for other white colonies, and happily sung God Save the Queen.
It was his personal experiences of racism that changed his view on that.
And then of course - if it does look remotely close - he will claim electoral fraud against him and refuse to concede.
I really don't think this would happen. He might make some noise about it being illegitimate (in fact I'm sure it'd feature somewhere in his rambling at some point), but I don't see him making any serious attempt to remain in power.
What is it about his behaviour so far that would suggest such a temperate, wise, magnanimous, rational and gracious exit? I'm not convinced.
A couple of things. One is that I think he's heavily manipulated by the people around him, and they don't want an acrimonious exit (most of them are just concerned with making lots of money, and Biden has made it very clear he doesn't intend to be an impedement to that). And the other is that he never actually wanted the job.
And then of course - if it does look remotely close - he will claim electoral fraud against him and refuse to concede.
I really don't think this would happen. He might make some noise about it being illegitimate (in fact I'm sure it'd feature somewhere in his rambling at some point), but I don't see him making any serious attempt to remain in power.
I agree that it won't be a serious attempt to remain in power. He will know (assuming no 'hanging chads' in Florida type monkey business) that he has to go. But I doubt he'll do the normal quick and clear concession. I can see a drawn out bit of ugly divisive theatre whereby he seeks to smear the result and plant the idea in the heads of his followers - who he will be planning on exploiting in a variety of ways for years to come - that he (and they) woz robbed.
Does that mean that even the risible claim that Nigel Farage's journalistic credentials justified him breaking lockdown has now been withdrawn from under him?
Today the Commission recommends to Schengen Member States and Schengen Associated States to lift internal border controls by 15 June 2020 and to prolong the temporary restriction on non-essential travel into the EU until 30 June 2020; and sets out an approach to progressively lifting the restriction afterwards.
Given that the health situation in certain third countries remains critical, the Commission does not propose a general lifting of the travel restriction at this stage. The restriction should be lifted for countries selected together by Member States, based on a set of principles and objective criteria including the health situation, the ability to apply containment measures during travel, and reciprocity considerations, taking into account data from relevant sources such as ECDC and WHO.....
Objective criteria: The decision to lift restrictions for a specific country should be based on the epidemiological situation and coronavirus response in that country, the ability to apply containment measures during travel, and whether or not that country has lifted travel restrictions towards the EU. Restrictions should be lifted first with countries whose epidemiological situation is similar to the EU average and where sufficient capabilities to deal with the virus are in place. Restrictions should remain in place for countries whose situation is worse than in the EU. The Commission proposes a detailed checklist to help Member States reach a common assessment. Decisions on lifting travel restrictions would concern non-EU nationals residing in a specific country (not its nationals).
I honestly don't understand how anyone could say the Confederate flag isn't racist. It may also stand for other things but I don't think you can say racism isn't one of them.
It's the same way you could argue the British flag is racist because of colonial behaviour and slavery in the past.
But it means more to us than that and it means more to those people too.
Every flag has had bad things done under its name at some time.
No, it is not the same thing at all. It was the flag of rebellion in defence of slavery, and is the flag of the lost causers, and those who would romanticise the slave states.
As far as I can see the rate of decline has been super consistent since the peak. Here's UK figures, all settings, by actual date of death, from the "2nd peak" (ie the care home peak) on 17/april, until latest available figures 29/may:
There's a dog not barking here, isn't there?
Despite the sunny weekends, the cautious unlockdown, the Cummings effect (real or perceived), VE day, and everything else, nothing has apparently changed. At all.
Absolutely right.
I keep saying on here (few take notice, but some do) that the fabled April warm spell was the first of several silent hounds.
It's worth looking back at the PB threads and the absolute certainty in which the Lockdown Extremists assured us that 'dickheads in London' (aka people with small flats and no gardens) would have blood on their hands etc etc because they sat in the park with their mates.
But, the cube root of fuck all happened.
Why?
Because, despite long lensing* being all over social media, people stayed 1-2m** apart. Nearly all of the time.
*The trick of using a telephoto lens from a long distance to make objects/people appear to be close together, when they aren't.
**In practise 2m seems to mean - noticeably apart from someone else.
I wonder whether Trump could pull out rather than face what appears to be a big defeat.
**** BETTING POST **** I think that's distinctly possible, presumably citing ill-health/inability to face the incredible demands of being POTUS for another 4 years, thereby sticking one on Biden who is older still. If he were to quit, time is becoming a little short to look other than at his VP, Mike Pence to pick up the mantle, on which basis he perhaps looks generously priced at 42 on the Betfair Exchange (39/1 in old money), compared with the likes of SkyBet who go as short as 14/1 for the same bet. Please note that these odds are to be the GOP candidate, NOT to win the election. As ever ... DYOR.
Does that mean that even the risible claim that Nigel Farage's journalistic credentials justified him breaking lockdown has now been withdrawn from under him?
Hang on, when did Farage last broadcast? Personally I think journalists have been given far too much leeway in all of this (no need to go to Weston super mud, for example), but Farage has a much right as any other journalist to do as he pleases.
Does that mean that even the risible claim that Nigel Farage's journalistic credentials justified him breaking lockdown has now been withdrawn from under him?
Hang on, when did Farage last broadcast? Personally I think journalists have been given far too much leeway in all of this (no need to go to Weston super mud, for example), but Farage has a much right as any other journalist to do as he pleases.
In what way is Nigel Farage is a journalist? He's a loudmouth with a microphone.
I honestly don't understand how anyone could say the Confederate flag isn't racist. It may also stand for other things but I don't think you can say racism isn't one of them.
It's the same way you could argue the British flag is racist because of colonial behaviour and slavery in the past.
But it means more to us than that and it means more to those people too.
Every flag has had bad things done under its name at some time.
No, it is not the same thing at all. It was the flag of rebellion in defence of slavery, and is the flag of the lost causers, and those who would romanticise the slave states.
That's what it means to you, it means more to them than that, it represents them and their people. It's even on the flag of a lot of their states.
Its just numbing that this is happening now. As opposed to 50 years ago. Deeply, deeply weird country. It makes me very cautious about what should be a no brainer if they were even half rational.
Many of the South's soldiers had no slaves or no stake in slavery. They were fighting because ''y'all are down here.''
Many slave owners did not participate in the war.
I think some think they can sympathise with the bravery of the ordinary soldier of the South whilst still disagreeing with the cause??
That's because anyone owning 20 or more slaves was exempt as it was thought they would be needed on the plantations to avoid slave uprisings.
And then of course - if it does look remotely close - he will claim electoral fraud against him and refuse to concede.
I really don't think this would happen. He might make some noise about it being illegitimate (in fact I'm sure it'd feature somewhere in his rambling at some point), but I don't see him making any serious attempt to remain in power.
What is it about his behaviour so far that would suggest such a temperate, wise, magnanimous, rational and gracious exit? I'm not convinced.
A couple of things. One is that I think he's heavily manipulated by the people around him, and they don't want an acrimonious exit (most of them are just concerned with making lots of money, and Biden has made it very clear he doesn't intend to be an impedement to that). And the other is that he never actually wanted the job.
Hmmm.
Biden: ‘This president is going to try to steal this election’ https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/11/joe-biden-donald-trump-voting-access-312879 ...Biden revealed Wednesday he had acknowledged the possibility that Trump would not assent to a peaceful transition of power. But he suggested leaders within America’s armed forces — including former military officials who have spoken out against the president in recent weeks — would eventually force Trump from office.
“I was so damn proud. You have four chiefs of staff coming out and ripping the skin off of Trump, and you have so many rank-and-file military personnel saying, ‘Whoa, we’re not a military state. This is not who we are,’” Biden said. “I promise you, I’m absolutely convinced they will escort him from the White House with great dispatch.”...
Does that mean that even the risible claim that Nigel Farage's journalistic credentials justified him breaking lockdown has now been withdrawn from under him?
Hang on, when did Farage last broadcast? Personally I think journalists have been given far too much leeway in all of this (no need to go to Weston super mud, for example), but Farage has a much right as any other journalist to do as he pleases.
In what way is Nigel Farage is a journalist? He's a loudmouth with a microphone.
Does that mean that even the risible claim that Nigel Farage's journalistic credentials justified him breaking lockdown has now been withdrawn from under him?
Hang on, when did Farage last broadcast? Personally I think journalists have been given far too much leeway in all of this (no need to go to Weston super mud, for example), but Farage has a much right as any other journalist to do as he pleases.
And then of course - if it does look remotely close - he will claim electoral fraud against him and refuse to concede.
I really don't think this would happen. He might make some noise about it being illegitimate (in fact I'm sure it'd feature somewhere in his rambling at some point), but I don't see him making any serious attempt to remain in power.
What is it about his behaviour so far that would suggest such a temperate, wise, magnanimous, rational and gracious exit? I'm not convinced.
A couple of things. One is that I think he's heavily manipulated by the people around him, and they don't want an acrimonious exit (most of them are just concerned with making lots of money, and Biden has made it very clear he doesn't intend to be an impedement to that). And the other is that he never actually wanted the job.
Hmmm.
Biden: ‘This president is going to try to steal this election’ https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/11/joe-biden-donald-trump-voting-access-312879 ...Biden revealed Wednesday he had acknowledged the possibility that Trump would not assent to a peaceful transition of power. But he suggested leaders within America’s armed forces — including former military officials who have spoken out against the president in recent weeks — would eventually force Trump from office.
“I was so damn proud. You have four chiefs of staff coming out and ripping the skin off of Trump, and you have so many rank-and-file military personnel saying, ‘Whoa, we’re not a military state. This is not who we are,’” Biden said. “I promise you, I’m absolutely convinced they will escort him from the White House with great dispatch.”...
As far as I can see the rate of decline has been super consistent since the peak. Here's UK figures, all settings, by actual date of death, from the "2nd peak" (ie the care home peak) on 17/april, until latest available figures 29/may:
There's a dog not barking here, isn't there?
Despite the sunny weekends, the cautious unlockdown, the Cummings effect (real or perceived), VE day, and everything else, nothing has apparently changed. At all.
Absolutely right.
I keep saying on here (few take notice, but some do) that the fabled April warm spell was the first of several silent hounds.
It's worth looking back at the PB threads and the absolute certainty in which the Lockdown Extremists assured us that 'dickheads in London' (aka people with small flats and no gardens) would have blood on their hands etc etc because they sat in the park with their mates.
But, the cube root of fuck all happened.
Why?
The virus is being kept in check by social distancing. We know for certain that social distancing is continuing. It is likely but not certain that this is the cause of the epidemic's decline.
Everything is basically on hold because there is an unspoken expectation that a vaccine is likely to become available later this year. Therefore basic questions are not being asked as they would probably become hypothetical if a vaccine was available. If the vaccine does not arrive then everything will have to be reconsidered in a big way.
I honestly don't understand how anyone could say the Confederate flag isn't racist. It may also stand for other things but I don't think you can say racism isn't one of them.
It's the same way you could argue the British flag is racist because of colonial behaviour and slavery in the past.
But it means more to us than that and it means more to those people too.
Every flag has had bad things done under its name at some time.
No, it is not the same thing at all. It was the flag of rebellion in defence of slavery, and is the flag of the lost causers, and those who would romanticise the slave states.
That's what it means to you, it means more to them than that, it represents them and their people. It's even on the flag of a lot of their states.
Biden v Trump, why can't they both lose? It would not surprise me if either of them failed to complete their term in office.
It is odd how The Democrats have managed to almost airbrush their past as The Party of The Confederacy.
One wacky thing I remember was this - in the era of Jim Crow, in the 1950s and 60s, black people used the courts to force the Democratic Party to let them in.
Rather than join the then Republican Party.
This was because, in many states in the South, it was effectively one party only. Republicans didn't get elected to *anything*... So if you wanted to change anything you had to be a Democrat...
I sometimes wonder if I’m a classical liberal, libertarian or a bit of a secret radical.
However, I keep coming back to the fact I’m really a conservative. There are one-nation Conservatives like David Herdson and DavidL, liberal Conservatives like TSE and praetorian Thatcherites like HD2.
I am basically a shire Tory. It’s why I always had a soft spot for David Cameron, despite getting very frustrated with him at times.
I don't know if this helps but I can tell you that Toby Young self-identifies very strongly as a "classical liberal". Indeed it used to be the rather stark strap-line on his Twitter profile. Toby Young. Classical Liberal - Just that.
But not anymore. It now says "General Secretary of the Free Speech Union."
Which means he won't mind me saying all this. Or even if he does mind he would defend to the death my right to do so.
You do wonder if the Labour Party as distinct from its leader will be electable by the time of the next election.
Most of those were unelectable last time. I mean, how could anyone vote for Zarah Sultana or Tulip Siddiq or Kate Osamor after the way they've behaved? Indeed, Sultana very nearly lost in Coventry as it was. Naz Shah, meanwhile, would surely have gone the way of Aidan Burley had she been a Tory.
The more compelling problem is how to make sure such people, which also include Burgon, Pidcock and Gardiner, don't get on the candidate shortlists to start. That's where Starmer should be focussing his energies.
Although the Tories can hardly talk given they have Rees-Mogg, Francois and Baker.
The Huddersfield Examiner has a lead story on Kirklees council's decision to review all its statues and monuments. It is illustrated with a photo of the statue of Harold Wilson outside the station. Wilson must fall?
Comments
No region, class, interest or profession was wholly associated with one side or the other.
You could not tell, therefore who had fought on which side. And the vast majority were neither.
Which made it easier to re-unite at Restoration.
Highly simplified of course.
He'll fight dirty, hold onto his base, and try to stop Democrats from voting. The trouble with voting in Georgia shows that he'd be pushing on an open door there. The maladministration of elections in the US is on an epic scale already.
However, I keep coming back to the fact I’m really a conservative. There are one-nation Conservatives like David Herdson and DavidL, liberal Conservatives like TSE and praetorian Thatcherites like HD2.
I am basically a shire Tory. It’s why I always had a soft spot for David Cameron, despite getting very frustrated with him at times.
Soutik Biswas
Delhi correspondent
17 September 2015"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-34265882
538 had Clinton at 71.4% final chance. And that was spot on I think.
Try as you might, there is simply no British parallel for the leaders who led a regional rebellion solely in defence of the institution of slavery - and whose followers, who in defeat, spent the next century or so doing everything they could to deny former slaves and their descendants the vote, with that flag as their emblem.
They gave Trump a roughly 30% chance of winning on election eve, which given the narrow path he did it by seems pretty accurate (ie a 1/3 chance).
I am not sure this would meet with universal agreement but you can kind of see where he was coming from.
Despite the sunny weekends, the cautious unlockdown, the Cummings effect (real or perceived), VE day, and everything else, nothing has apparently changed. At all.
"White soldiers stopped Gandhi and team from treating the injured Zulu, and some African stretcher-bearers with Gandhi were shot dead by the British. The medical team commanded by Gandhi operated for less than two months.[84] Gandhi volunteering to help as a "staunch loyalist" during the Zulu and other wars made no difference in the British attitude, states Herman, and the African experience was a part of his great disillusionment with the West, transforming him into an "uncompromising non-cooperator".[85]
"In 1910, Gandhi established, with the help of his friend Hermann Kallenbach, an idealistic community they named Tolstoy Farm near Johannesburg.[86] There he nurtured his policy of peaceful resistance.[87]
"In the years after black South Africans gained the right to vote in South Africa (1994), Gandhi was proclaimed a national hero with numerous monuments.[88]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi
'The organisation most people know as MI6 is properly the Secret Intelligence Service and prefers to be known as the SIS. Their counterpart, called MI5, is officially the Security Service, and prefers to be known as MI5.'
Because it isn't.
I assumed the fitted line was an exponential decay, but haven't checked.
I keep saying on here (few take notice, but some do) that the fabled April warm spell was the first of several silent hounds.
It's worth looking back at the PB threads and the absolute certainty in which the Lockdown Extremists assured us that 'dickheads in London' (aka people with small flats and no gardens) would have blood on their hands etc etc because they sat in the park with their mates.
But, the cube root of fuck all happened.
Why?
Carnyx said:
» show previous quotes
On the contrary, it's perfectly comprehensible Lowlands Scots - no worse than, say, Barnes's Dorset poems.
Perhaps beyond the Wall of Caucasus
I'll hide from your secret Pashas,
from those quick/bright eyes that always see all,
the ears that miss nothing at all.
The one thing that niggles is 'derne' which I don't recognise - it may just be my memory but a quick check of the DSL Dictionar o the Scots Leid/Dictionary of the Scots Language suggests it is an archaic word indeed.
And it may be my imagination but there's something slightly off to my ear. If my fellowScots on PB confirm this then I wonder if it was written partly from a dictionary by a Russian?
https://dsl.ac.uk/entry/dost/derne_vforward Lowlands Scots
http://www.scotsdictionaries.org.uk/
Yes only one I did not know offhand was Derne, rest is standard lowlands apart from maybe Aiblins.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornerstone_Speech
*First and only VP of the Confederacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_H._Stephens
I fully signed up to her economic and labour reforms.
I also endorse most of her social views, it was only at the end that she went mad on Section 28, but she supported the decriminalisation of homosexuality via the Leo Abse bill. In fact one of her earliest acts was to civilise the Scots and Northern Irish and decriminalised homosexuality there.
This isn't a troll, but one of her finest acts as PM was to help create the Single Market.
https://twitter.com/daveylittle/status/1271075663605366785?s=20
We were assured that that was a ticking time bomb in the figures.
The fuse was lit two months ago.
Yet the bomb never went off.
But it means more to us than that and it means more to those people too.
Every flag has had bad things done under its name at some time.
I would like to see Trump prosecuted for misconduct in office and imprisoned for a serious stretch, not on vindictive grounds but to put down a marker for his successors that presidential actions have consequences. I imagine others feel the same. How does this affect his next move in the event he loses in November?
I'm not convinced.
It was his personal experiences of racism that changed his view on that.
If you take the trajectory from April 8th (Peak) to May 8th and assume the trend continues you get the following:
._________________Actual___Predicted
01-Jun-20.________91_______74
02-Jun-20.________104______70
03-Jun-20.________102______67
04-Jun-20.________79_______64
05-Jun-20.________78_______61
Ceteris paribus the easing of lockdown has increased the reproductive rate of the virus slightly but not by too much and crucially below 1 still.
But in this instance he's crowdfunded to hunt down those illegal immigrants.
I'm no fan of Patel, but that letter's just ridiculous and nasty.
Given that the health situation in certain third countries remains critical, the Commission does not propose a general lifting of the travel restriction at this stage. The restriction should be lifted for countries selected together by Member States, based on a set of principles and objective criteria including the health situation, the ability to apply containment measures during travel, and reciprocity considerations, taking into account data from relevant sources such as ECDC and WHO.....
Objective criteria: The decision to lift restrictions for a specific country should be based on the epidemiological situation and coronavirus response in that country, the ability to apply containment measures during travel, and whether or not that country has lifted travel restrictions towards the EU. Restrictions should be lifted first with countries whose epidemiological situation is similar to the EU average and where sufficient capabilities to deal with the virus are in place. Restrictions should remain in place for countries whose situation is worse than in the EU. The Commission proposes a detailed checklist to help Member States reach a common assessment. Decisions on lifting travel restrictions would concern non-EU nationals residing in a specific country (not its nationals).
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_20_1035
It was the flag of rebellion in defence of slavery, and is the flag of the lost causers, and those who would romanticise the slave states.
*The trick of using a telephoto lens from a long distance to make objects/people appear to be close together, when they aren't.
**In practise 2m seems to mean - noticeably apart from someone else.
I think that's distinctly possible, presumably citing ill-health/inability to face the incredible demands of being POTUS for another 4 years, thereby sticking one on Biden who is older still.
If he were to quit, time is becoming a little short to look other than at his VP, Mike Pence to pick up the mantle, on which basis he perhaps looks generously priced at 42 on the Betfair Exchange (39/1 in old money), compared with the likes of SkyBet who go as short as 14/1 for the same bet.
Please note that these odds are to be the GOP candidate, NOT to win the election.
As ever ... DYOR.
Biden: ‘This president is going to try to steal this election’
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/11/joe-biden-donald-trump-voting-access-312879
...Biden revealed Wednesday he had acknowledged the possibility that Trump would not assent to a peaceful transition of power. But he suggested leaders within America’s armed forces — including former military officials who have spoken out against the president in recent weeks — would eventually force Trump from office.
“I was so damn proud. You have four chiefs of staff coming out and ripping the skin off of Trump, and you have so many rank-and-file military personnel saying, ‘Whoa, we’re not a military state. This is not who we are,’” Biden said. “I promise you, I’m absolutely convinced they will escort him from the White House with great dispatch.”...
https://twitter.com/BBCWorld/status/1271087122624241666
Biden v Trump, why can't they both lose? It would not surprise me if either of them failed to complete their term in office.
It is odd how The Democrats have managed to almost airbrush their past as The Party of The Confederacy.
It seems to be saying she can’t have experienced real racism nor represent those who have because she’s a Conservative.
A 19th Century Republican would be a 21st Century Democrat and vice-versa.
Likewise.
But he's a risk given his obvious age. Could all come apart in the debates. Perhaps he should refuse to do them?
Everything is basically on hold because there is an unspoken expectation that a vaccine is likely to become available later this year. Therefore basic questions are not being asked as they would probably become hypothetical if a vaccine was available. If the vaccine does not arrive then everything will have to be reconsidered in a big way.
Just as the Republicans abandoned their history as the party of Lincoln.
Praps that's the answer, all statues from here on in will be of horses. I'd like that.
Rather than join the then Republican Party.
This was because, in many states in the South, it was effectively one party only. Republicans didn't get elected to *anything*... So if you wanted to change anything you had to be a Democrat...
But not anymore. It now says "General Secretary of the Free Speech Union."
Which means he won't mind me saying all this. Or even if he does mind he would defend to the death my right to do so.
The more compelling problem is how to make sure such people, which also include Burgon, Pidcock and Gardiner, don't get on the candidate shortlists to start. That's where Starmer should be focussing his energies.
Although the Tories can hardly talk given they have Rees-Mogg, Francois and Baker.