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SystemSystem Posts: 12,169
edited June 2020 in General
«134

Comments

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    First
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    Always good for LAB to be optimistic. Maybe LAB fans should form a 'support bubble'.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    A poll with the government behind?

    That would be no bad thing after recent events, frankly.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    This signifies a real change, because previously the no-opinion was a mark against the undoubtedly decent approval ratings.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    Bozo's bubble has burst.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    Bozo's bubble has burst.

    Cummings was the prick that burst it.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    Oh, crossover!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    I hadn’t realised he was a Covid denier.

    https://twitter.com/bulamabukarti/status/1270391133961682944
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    Jonathan said:

    Bozo's bubble has burst.

    Cummings was the prick that burst it.
    No. Boris was the prick for supporting him.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Blimey, definitely unprovoked unlike the tea thing.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    Majority of first-wave COVID-19 clinical trials have significant design shortcomings, study finds
    Analysis of COVID-19 clinical trials as of late March finds quantity but less quality
    https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2020-06/jhub-mof060920.php
    ... In all, the 201 trials involved 92 distinct drugs as well as antibody-containing blood plasma.

    Mehta and colleagues found that most of these trials demonstrated design weaknesses. For example, about a third had no defined clinical endpoint, such as hospital discharge or survival, by which success could be measured. About a quarter lacked the standard random assignment of patients to a candidate treatment or control/comparator drug. Of the 152 trials that did randomize patients to a treatment or comparator, only 55 involved the usual practice of 'blinding'--a bias-reducing strategy in which patients as well as doctors and others who direct care and assess outcomes are kept from knowing who received the treatment or placebo...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    Jonathan said:

    Cummings was the prick that burst it.

    https://twitter.com/michaelsavage/status/1270789099839016962
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Jonathan said:

    Bozo's bubble has burst.

    Cummings was the prick that burst it.
    No. Boris was the prick for supporting him.
    A rare moment where this particular prick showed a certain lack of penetration.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413
    Is there a header here? On vanilla it just says template.
    And Read the full story takes me to the comments.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    This looks like the new "comedy" the BBC is going for..


  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    tlg86 said:

    Blimey, definitely unprovoked unlike the tea thing.

    It's going down like a bucket of cold sick.

    Even on Twatter.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,600
    "UK was inundated by new coronavirus cases from abroad, genetic analysis reveals"

    https://www.itv.com/news/2020-06-10/uk-was-inundated-by-new-coronavirus-cases-from-abroad-genetic-analysis-reveals/
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Things I learnt today.

    1. The Whitehouse have demanded an apology from CNN for publishing a poll showing Biden leading.

    2. CNN's chief council is called D. C. VIGILANTE and that is totally boss.


    https://twitter.com/CNNPR/status/1270802155201576962?s=19
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    Andy_JS said:

    "UK was inundated by new coronavirus cases from abroad, genetic analysis reveals"

    https://www.itv.com/news/2020-06-10/uk-was-inundated-by-new-coronavirus-cases-from-abroad-genetic-analysis-reveals/

    There's a lot of it about...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    tlg86 said:

    Blimey, definitely unprovoked unlike the tea thing.

    It's going down like a bucket of cold sick.

    Even on Twatter.
    Personally I've never shopped in that store, but I thought pretentious twats was kind of their brand identity?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    tlg86 said:

    Blimey, definitely unprovoked unlike the tea thing.

    JK Rowling just published an article called TERF wars so it isn't remotely unprovoked.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    Who is advising these companies? And why do they listen to them?

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1270812775829450752?s=19
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222

    It turns out that asking your wife if any of her single friends would like to join a bubble is not a good idea.

    Is that anecdote, or based on a well designed trial ?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Sage Paper - March 9:

    SAGE advises that measures relating to individual and household isolation will likely need to be enacted within the next two weeks to be fully effective, and those concerning social distancing of the elderly and vulnerable 2-3 weeks after this

    Individual/Household isolation (of household with infected individual): by March 23
    Social Distancing of elderly/vulnerable: 6th April - 13th April

    Just as well the government didn't follow SAGE advice!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    tlg86 said:

    Blimey, definitely unprovoked unlike the tea thing.

    It's going down like a bucket of cold sick.

    Even on Twatter.
    Personally I've never shopped in that store, but I thought pretentious twats was kind of their brand identity?
    Their hemp handcream is amongst the best. All that handsanitiser is rough on the skin...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222

    Jonathan said:

    Bozo's bubble has burst.

    Cummings was the prick that burst it.
    No. Boris was the prick for supporting him.
    Neither of them are the sharpest tools.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487

    tlg86 said:

    Blimey, definitely unprovoked unlike the tea thing.

    It's going down like a bucket of cold sick.

    Even on Twatter.
    Personally I've never shopped in that store, but I thought pretentious twats was kind of their brand identity?
    They've always been big on animal testing and the environment and things like that.

    But JK Rowling has written movingly on her site of her own experiences of abuse and why (although she sympathises with trans people) why the experiences of women are different.

    And she gets mocked by them.

    It's got way more comments and replies than likes at the moment - and that's about as rare on Twitter as a Lib Dem poll lead.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited June 2020
    Look at the cheek of this establishment backed, white scum; blocking the pavement & making a spectacle of himself whilst some poor young black lads tried to get their daily exercise

    https://twitter.com/crimeldn/status/1270801995230785544?s=21
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    Alistair said:

    tlg86 said:

    Blimey, definitely unprovoked unlike the tea thing.

    JK Rowling just published an article called TERF wars so it isn't remotely unprovoked.
    This is the article she wrote. It wasn't called that although she referenced the phrase within it.

    Read it. And judge for yourself.

    https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    tlg86 said:

    Blimey, definitely unprovoked unlike the tea thing.

    It's going down like a bucket of cold sick.

    Even on Twatter.
    Personally I've never shopped in that store, but I thought pretentious twats was kind of their brand identity?
    They've always been big on animal testing and the environment and things like that.

    But JK Rowling has written movingly on her site of her own experiences of abuse and why (although she sympathises with trans people) why the experiences of women are different.

    And she gets mocked by them.

    It's got way more comments and replies than likes at the moment - and that's about as rare on Twitter as a Lib Dem poll lead.
    2.5k replies to 2.1k likes barely even counts as a ratio.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Alistair said:

    Things I learnt today.

    1. The Whitehouse have demanded an apology from CNN for publishing a poll showing Biden leading.

    2. CNN's chief council is called D. C. VIGILANTE and that is totally boss.


    https://twitter.com/CNNPR/status/1270802155201576962?s=19

    The reply should have been in the form of Arkell v Pressdram.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,217

    Who is advising these companies? And why do they listen to them?

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1270812775829450752?s=19

    Nike saw a big upward spike in sales when they backed Colin Kaepernick. Success breeds imitation.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    32% "don't know" about their opinion of Starmer , v.s. just 7% for Boris.

    Again I don't think Starmer has made much of an impact on public consciousness yet, it's not been the best time to take over as leader to be fair.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,217

    It turns out that asking your wife if any of her single friends would like to join a bubble is not a good idea.

    Your mistake was limiting it to her single friends.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    rcs1000 said:

    Who is advising these companies? And why do they listen to them?

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1270812775829450752?s=19

    Nike saw a big upward spike in sales when they backed Colin Kaepernick. Success breeds imitation.
    They've just seen a big downward spike in merchandise.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,217

    rcs1000 said:

    Who is advising these companies? And why do they listen to them?

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1270812775829450752?s=19

    Nike saw a big upward spike in sales when they backed Colin Kaepernick. Success breeds imitation.
    They've just seen a big downward spike in merchandise.
    There's a great Scott Galloway (NYU Stern School of Business) look at how Nike made the decision to back Kaepernick, it was entirely financially driven.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    The GE of 2024 was decided the weekend of the Cummings revelations.

    It only gets worse from there.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    rcs1000 said:

    Who is advising these companies? And why do they listen to them?

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1270812775829450752?s=19

    Nike saw a big upward spike in sales when they backed Colin Kaepernick. Success breeds imitation.
    I don't know about Nike but Paperchase went bust, and Gillette suffered from their "best men can be" ad too.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    rcs1000 said:

    Who is advising these companies? And why do they listen to them?

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1270812775829450752?s=19

    Nike saw a big upward spike in sales when they backed Colin Kaepernick. Success breeds imitation.
    Surely not? I'm sure I read on here that it was the marketing disaster to end all marketing disasters? Of course it was then superseded by Gillette saying men should be a bit less rapey.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    Alistair said:

    tlg86 said:

    Blimey, definitely unprovoked unlike the tea thing.

    It's going down like a bucket of cold sick.

    Even on Twatter.
    Personally I've never shopped in that store, but I thought pretentious twats was kind of their brand identity?
    They've always been big on animal testing and the environment and things like that.

    But JK Rowling has written movingly on her site of her own experiences of abuse and why (although she sympathises with trans people) why the experiences of women are different.

    And she gets mocked by them.

    It's got way more comments and replies than likes at the moment - and that's about as rare on Twitter as a Lib Dem poll lead.
    2.5k replies to 2.1k likes barely even counts as a ratio.
    You haven't read her article, have you?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102

    The GE of 2024 was decided the weekend of the Cummings revelations.

    It only gets worse from there.

    With respect that is just wrong

    Cummings will not define this government, covid and leaving the EU will and the economic response

    I do not think Boris will even see 2021out
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    The evolution of American English....

    https://twitter.com/Bernstein/status/1270427328590622720
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    The problem for Starmer however is while he has good favourability ratings his party clearly still does not.

    He is still yet to complete the changes to reform and modernise and moderate his party Kinnock and John Smith managed let alone Tony Blair.

    So even if he does become PM it is hard to see an overall majority for Labour at the next general election unless major changes are made

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1270682450574880768?s=20
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,378

    tlg86 said:

    Blimey, definitely unprovoked unlike the tea thing.

    It's going down like a bucket of cold sick.

    Even on Twatter.
    Personally I've never shopped in that store, but I thought pretentious twats was kind of their brand identity?
    Being woke is niche marketing. It can work if you build up your brand on that basis.

    If it turns out that you actually route your profits through a tax haven, or get children in South East Asia to manufacture your goods for a pittance, then it can backfire.
  • coachcoach Posts: 250

    The GE of 2024 was decided the weekend of the Cummings revelations.

    It only gets worse from there.

    With respect that is just wrong

    Cummings will not define this government, covid and leaving the EU will and the economic response

    I do not think Boris will even see 2021out
    Agree entirely but think Boris may not see out this year.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766

    The GE of 2024 was decided the weekend of the Cummings revelations.

    It only gets worse from there.

    With respect that is just wrong

    Cummings will not define this government, covid and leaving the EU will and the economic response

    I do not think Boris will even see 2021out
    Always appreciate your thoughts Big_G, but "covid and leaving the EU will and the economic response" will define the result. That's my point - it is downhill now.

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    rcs1000 said:

    Who is advising these companies? And why do they listen to them?

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1270812775829450752?s=19

    Nike saw a big upward spike in sales when they backed Colin Kaepernick. Success breeds imitation.
    I don't know about Nike but Paperchase went bust, and Gillette suffered from their "best men can be" ad too.
    Did they? That's sad.

    Personally that ad impressed me, but I'm not going to shave more than once a day to reflect that so had no impact on my expenditure.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Hmm my wife has just seen the body shop kerfuffle. She buys their stuff because of their stance on animal testing now she's looking up other brands.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487

    rcs1000 said:

    Who is advising these companies? And why do they listen to them?

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1270812775829450752?s=19

    Nike saw a big upward spike in sales when they backed Colin Kaepernick. Success breeds imitation.
    I don't know about Nike but Paperchase went bust, and Gillette suffered from their "best men can be" ad too.
    Did they? That's sad.

    Personally that ad impressed me, but I'm not going to shave more than once a day to reflect that so had no impact on my expenditure.
    Fair enough. Many people (myself included) found it hectoring and patronising.

    I haven't bought Gillette since.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898

    The GE of 2024 was decided the weekend of the Cummings revelations.

    It only gets worse from there.

    While I would enjoy seeing the protracted and tortured weakening of this administration over the next three years and ten months and its final electoral humiliation in May 2024 as much as the next person, I'm much less convinced.

    The honeymoon has clearly ended but that's a long way from saying defeat is on the cards. We know there is nothing the Conservatives are better at than clinging onto power - anything that money can buy (including votes) will be fair game.

    A lot will depend on which school of thought prevails - there are those who think Covid-19 and the lockdown has wrecked the economy and the legacy of mass unemployment and the impoverishing of millions will cast a dark cloud over the country for a decade or more.

    OTOH, there are those who see covid-19 more as a natural disaster from which recovery will be swift. They argue the middle classes in particular have done very well out of lockdown - working at home, relaxed and not spending (apart from online). They'll have plenty of cash to splash when the shops re-open and this will give the economy a huge boost ensuring most jobs are safe and life will swiftly return to normal.

    As with all good schools, both have elements of truth - neither has a monopoly.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    Sean_F said:

    tlg86 said:

    Blimey, definitely unprovoked unlike the tea thing.

    It's going down like a bucket of cold sick.

    Even on Twatter.
    Personally I've never shopped in that store, but I thought pretentious twats was kind of their brand identity?
    Being woke is niche marketing. It can work if you build up your brand on that basis.

    If it turns out that you actually route your profits through a tax haven, or get children in South East Asia to manufacture your goods for a pittance, then it can backfire.
    It can also backfire when you're an established everyday brand with a broad customer base who then suddenly wades into politics.

    I think that Yougov poll is pretty clear.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,217
    Sean_F said:

    tlg86 said:

    Blimey, definitely unprovoked unlike the tea thing.

    It's going down like a bucket of cold sick.

    Even on Twatter.
    Personally I've never shopped in that store, but I thought pretentious twats was kind of their brand identity?
    Being woke is niche marketing. It can work if you build up your brand on that basis.

    If it turns out that you actually route your profits through a tax haven, or get children in South East Asia to manufacture your goods for a pittance, then it can backfire.
    To quote Flight of the Conchords:

    They're turning kids into slaves just to make cheaper sneakers
    But what's the real cost?
    Cause the sneakers don't seem that much cheaper
    Why are we still paying so much for sneakers
    When you got them made by little slave kids
    What are your overheads?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GimzSBVQUDo
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    rcs1000 said:

    Who is advising these companies? And why do they listen to them?

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1270812775829450752?s=19

    Nike saw a big upward spike in sales when they backed Colin Kaepernick. Success breeds imitation.
    I don't know about Nike but Paperchase went bust, and Gillette suffered from their "best men can be" ad too.
    Did they? That's sad.

    Personally that ad impressed me, but I'm not going to shave more than once a day to reflect that so had no impact on my expenditure.
    As far as I'm aware it didn't have any effect. Gillette sales were static.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,060
    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Who is advising these companies? And why do they listen to them?

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1270812775829450752?s=19

    Nike saw a big upward spike in sales when they backed Colin Kaepernick. Success breeds imitation.
    I don't know about Nike but Paperchase went bust, and Gillette suffered from their "best men can be" ad too.
    Did they? That's sad.

    Personally that ad impressed me, but I'm not going to shave more than once a day to reflect that so had no impact on my expenditure.
    As far as I'm aware it didn't have any effect. Gillette sales were static.
    Probably because the ad wasn't "anti-men"
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139

    The GE of 2024 was decided the weekend of the Cummings revelations.

    It only gets worse from there.

    With respect that is just wrong

    Cummings will not define this government, covid and leaving the EU will and the economic response

    I do not think Boris will even see 2021out
    The Tories are still on over 40% of the vote, unless they go behind Boris is staying.

    The main movement since GE19 is still LD to Labour not Tory to Labour
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    Alistair said:

    Things I learnt today.

    1. The Whitehouse have demanded an apology from CNN for publishing a poll showing Biden leading.

    2. CNN's chief council is called D. C. VIGILANTE and that is totally boss.


    https://twitter.com/CNNPR/status/1270802155201576962?s=19

    The reply should have been in the form of Arkell v Pressdram.
    You mean like this?

    https://twitter.com/LettersOfNote/status/1270804176243736576?s=20

  • dodradedodrade Posts: 597
    People making long term predictions are crazy. In December people were already writing off Labour's chances in 2024. In January Trump's position was actually looking stronger after the impeachment and Biden a busted flush. Who knows where we will be in September, never mind 2024.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    edited June 2020
    HYUFD said:

    The problem for Starmer however is while he has good favourability ratings his party clearly still does not.

    He is still yet to complete the changes to reform and modernise and moderate his party Kinnock and John Smith managed let alone Tony Blair.

    So even if he does become PM it is hard to see an overall majority for Labour at the next general election unless major changes are made

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1270682450574880768?s=20

    This was a problem for Blair too. He overcame the problem by renaming the party New Labour. New Labour is no longer the reassurance it once was but a simple remarketing strategy would help.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    edited June 2020
    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Who is advising these companies? And why do they listen to them?

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1270812775829450752?s=19

    Nike saw a big upward spike in sales when they backed Colin Kaepernick. Success breeds imitation.
    I don't know about Nike but Paperchase went bust, and Gillette suffered from their "best men can be" ad too.
    Did they? That's sad.

    Personally that ad impressed me, but I'm not going to shave more than once a day to reflect that so had no impact on my expenditure.
    As far as I'm aware it didn't have any effect. Gillette sales were static.
    Even if they did go down it's more likely due to competition and the continuing trend for men to have beards.

    It does seem like an unnecessary own goal to piss of at least some of your consumers.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Who is advising these companies? And why do they listen to them?

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1270812775829450752?s=19

    Nike saw a big upward spike in sales when they backed Colin Kaepernick. Success breeds imitation.
    They've just seen a big downward spike in merchandise.
    There's a great Scott Galloway (NYU Stern School of Business) look at how Nike made the decision to back Kaepernick, it was entirely financially driven.
    It can lead to a short-term spike in sales as the notoriety and debate drive brand awareness but do long-term damage.

    There's a good article here. "Rob Frankel, a branding expert and author of “The Revenge of Brand X,” “but here’s where they went off the rails: when you start managing your brand for political rather than financial reasons, you swan dive into a meat grinder.”

    https://wjla.com/news/nation-world/nike-ad-puts-kaepernick-anthem-controversy-in-spotlight-days-before-launch-of-nfl-season
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,434

    Sean_F said:

    tlg86 said:

    Blimey, definitely unprovoked unlike the tea thing.

    It's going down like a bucket of cold sick.

    Even on Twatter.
    Personally I've never shopped in that store, but I thought pretentious twats was kind of their brand identity?
    Being woke is niche marketing. It can work if you build up your brand on that basis.

    If it turns out that you actually route your profits through a tax haven, or get children in South East Asia to manufacture your goods for a pittance, then it can backfire.
    It can also backfire when you're an established everyday brand with a broad customer base who then suddenly wades into politics.

    I think that Yougov poll is pretty clear.
    It is clear, but often people say things in response to opinion polls and don't follow through.

    So, for example, Tim Martin and his fecking Wetherspoon news pushing Brexit enrages me, but there are several things I like Wetherspoons for - and the same goes for the extreme Remainers from my knitting group.

    Maybe your argument is that the risks are only one way, and only brands upsetting the right are at risk?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898
    HYUFD said:

    The problem for Starmer however is while he has good favourability ratings his party clearly still does not.

    He is still yet to complete the changes to reform and modernise and moderate his party Kinnock and John Smith managed let alone Tony Blair.

    So even if he does become PM it is hard to see an overall majority for Labour at the next general election unless major changes are made

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1270682450574880768?s=20

    Indeed, Starmer is doing things in the wrong order. He's meant to dominate his party before he dominates the country. In his defence, he probably didn't anticipate the political and economic impact of covid-19 and the huge amount of help he has been given by the antics of the Conservative Government and its advisers.

    There are clear signs the Corbyn-ites are being driven out of positions of power and while they may snipe and cause embarrassment at the margins (and in the marginals), I suspect the realisation of possible victory will bring them into some form of tacit support.

    Overturning a Government majority of 80 isn't easy but it has been done - to be fair, if Starmer took 96 seats off Johnson after 14 years of Conservative rule (which is what Cameron did to Brown after 13 years of Labour rule) he wouldn't win a majority either but he would be in the business of forming a Government.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    The GE of 2024 was decided the weekend of the Cummings revelations.

    It only gets worse from there.

    Your periodic reminder that Ed MIliband's Labour led David Cameron's Tories in the polling averages from late 2010, all of 2011, all of 2012, all of 2013, all of 2014, and was neck-and-neck right before election day in 2015.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2015_United_Kingdom_general_election#/media/File:UK_opinion_polling_2010-2015.png

    And that's why Ed Miliband won a majority in May 2015 and became Prime Minister... or not, as the case may be!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    HYUFD said:

    The GE of 2024 was decided the weekend of the Cummings revelations.

    It only gets worse from there.

    With respect that is just wrong

    Cummings will not define this government, covid and leaving the EU will and the economic response

    I do not think Boris will even see 2021out
    The Tories are still on over 40% of the vote, unless they go behind Boris is staying.

    The main movement since GE19 is still LD to Labour not Tory to Labour
    It is the Tory trend you should be concerned about, although no need to worry for a few years yet.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    rcs1000 said:

    It turns out that asking your wife if any of her single friends would like to join a bubble is not a good idea.

    Your mistake was limiting it to her single friends.
    You experience was more positive, I take it?

    Perhaps inviting a male friend?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    rcs1000 said:

    Who is advising these companies? And why do they listen to them?

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1270812775829450752?s=19

    Nike saw a big upward spike in sales when they backed Colin Kaepernick. Success breeds imitation.
    I don't know about Nike but Paperchase went bust, and Gillette suffered from their "best men can be" ad too.
    Did they? That's sad.

    Personally that ad impressed me, but I'm not going to shave more than once a day to reflect that so had no impact on my expenditure.
    Fair enough. Many people (myself included) found it hectoring and patronising.

    I haven't bought Gillette since.
    Which probably shows the diference between Gilette and Nike.

    Gilette is a necessity, if you're buying razors, shaving foam etc you're doing so because you need to shave. Gilette need regular customers who regularly buy from them, but they can't buy more than they already are doing so, can only buy less. I'm not going to buy more than I already was, but you can buy less.

    OTOH for Nike people make individual purchases that frankly aren't necessities. Someone who is impressed by Nike or want to show their support, or simply through the extra publicity can make a purchase they wouldn't have made otherwise and that's extra for Nike's bottom line.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    HYUFD said:

    The GE of 2024 was decided the weekend of the Cummings revelations.

    It only gets worse from there.

    With respect that is just wrong

    Cummings will not define this government, covid and leaving the EU will and the economic response

    I do not think Boris will even see 2021out
    The Tories are still on over 40% of the vote, unless they go behind Boris is staying.

    The main movement since GE19 is still LD to Labour not Tory to Labour
    Boris is a shadow of the person he was and made a dreadful error in not sacking Cummings

    I really see no upside for him. Furthermore crossover in the polls is becoming inevitable

    He may cling on but either his health, covid or brexit will see him fail to go through 2021
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Charming.....I've always reckoned that vituperation was in inverse proportion to the strength of the argument...

    https://medium.com/@rebeccarc/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-activists-a-story-in-screenshots-78e01dca68d
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    The problem for Starmer however is while he has good favourability ratings his party clearly still does not.

    He is still yet to complete the changes to reform and modernise and moderate his party Kinnock and John Smith managed let alone Tony Blair.

    So even if he does become PM it is hard to see an overall majority for Labour at the next general election unless major changes are made

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1270682450574880768?s=20

    Indeed, Starmer is doing things in the wrong order. He's meant to dominate his party before he dominates the country. In his defence, he probably didn't anticipate the political and economic impact of covid-19 and the huge amount of help he has been given by the antics of the Conservative Government and its advisers.

    There are clear signs the Corbyn-ites are being driven out of positions of power and while they may snipe and cause embarrassment at the margins (and in the marginals), I suspect the realisation of possible victory will bring them into some form of tacit support.

    Overturning a Government majority of 80 isn't easy but it has been done - to be fair, if Starmer took 96 seats off Johnson after 14 years of Conservative rule (which is what Cameron did to Brown after 13 years of Labour rule) he wouldn't win a majority either but he would be in the business of forming a Government.
    That would require LD ministers in a Starmer Cabinet if he repeated Cameron's feat of 2010 which I suppose might finally see Momentum sod off in disgust by default
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    Nigelb said:
    surely that is just Cockley rhyming slang?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,878
    Nigelb said:
    Rhymes with "shit"?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Jenny Harries comments have not aged at all well.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139

    HYUFD said:

    The problem for Starmer however is while he has good favourability ratings his party clearly still does not.

    He is still yet to complete the changes to reform and modernise and moderate his party Kinnock and John Smith managed let alone Tony Blair.

    So even if he does become PM it is hard to see an overall majority for Labour at the next general election unless major changes are made

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1270682450574880768?s=20

    This was a problem for Blair too. He overcame the problem by renaming the party New Labour. New Labour is no longer the reassurance it once was but a simple remarketing strategy would help.
    Blair already had big poll leads when he took over as leader and New Labour accelerated that.

    Tory swing voters are still not ready to risk voting for a Starmer led Labour Party as they were ready to vote for Blair and New Labour
  • TresTres Posts: 2,702

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Who is advising these companies? And why do they listen to them?

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1270812775829450752?s=19

    Nike saw a big upward spike in sales when they backed Colin Kaepernick. Success breeds imitation.
    They've just seen a big downward spike in merchandise.
    There's a great Scott Galloway (NYU Stern School of Business) look at how Nike made the decision to back Kaepernick, it was entirely financially driven.
    It can lead to a short-term spike in sales as the notoriety and debate drive brand awareness but do long-term damage.

    There's a good article here. "Rob Frankel, a branding expert and author of “The Revenge of Brand X,” “but here’s where they went off the rails: when you start managing your brand for political rather than financial reasons, you swan dive into a meat grinder.”

    https://wjla.com/news/nation-world/nike-ad-puts-kaepernick-anthem-controversy-in-spotlight-days-before-launch-of-nfl-season
    Not sure that Nike leading the way to be on the right side of history is going to hurt them that badly long-term.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,434
    HYUFD said:

    The main movement since GE19 is still LD to Labour not Tory to Labour

    That's only true in the aggregate, but there have been two changes.

    1. At the start of lockdown Tory support went up as Lib Dem support went down.

    2. As support for the government has fallen this has been reflected in an increase in support for Labour.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Alistair said:

    Things I learnt today.

    1. The Whitehouse have demanded an apology from CNN for publishing a poll showing Biden leading.

    2. CNN's chief council is called D. C. VIGILANTE and that is totally boss.


    https://twitter.com/CNNPR/status/1270802155201576962?s=19

    The reply should have been in the form of Arkell v Pressdram.
    You mean like this?

    https://twitter.com/LettersOfNote/status/1270804176243736576?s=20

    That's the one!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Who is advising these companies? And why do they listen to them?

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1270812775829450752?s=19

    Nike saw a big upward spike in sales when they backed Colin Kaepernick. Success breeds imitation.
    I don't know about Nike but Paperchase went bust, and Gillette suffered from their "best men can be" ad too.
    Did they? That's sad.

    Personally that ad impressed me, but I'm not going to shave more than once a day to reflect that so had no impact on my expenditure.
    As far as I'm aware it didn't have any effect. Gillette sales were static.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/charlesrtaylor/2019/01/15/why-gillettes-new-ad-campaign-is-toxic/amp/

    They declined significantly by August 2019 and P&G had to write it down.

    It's true to say much of that is due to changing consumer habits on shaving. But this didn't help.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,060
    Pulpstar said:

    Jenny Harries comments have not aged at all well.
    Nor have the comments some people on here said about Rory Stewart in March...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Sean_F said:

    tlg86 said:

    Blimey, definitely unprovoked unlike the tea thing.

    It's going down like a bucket of cold sick.

    Even on Twatter.
    Personally I've never shopped in that store, but I thought pretentious twats was kind of their brand identity?
    Being woke is niche marketing. It can work if you build up your brand on that basis.

    If it turns out that you actually route your profits through a tax haven, or get children in South East Asia to manufacture your goods for a pittance, then it can backfire.
    Pretty much the only brands I can think of that I would think suits "woke" as part of the brands culture would be Body Shop and Lush. More the latter probably, Lush must be Queen of the "woke" brands.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102

    Alistair said:

    Things I learnt today.

    1. The Whitehouse have demanded an apology from CNN for publishing a poll showing Biden leading.

    2. CNN's chief council is called D. C. VIGILANTE and that is totally boss.


    https://twitter.com/CNNPR/status/1270802155201576962?s=19

    The reply should have been in the form of Arkell v Pressdram.
    You mean like this?

    https://twitter.com/LettersOfNote/status/1270804176243736576?s=20

    Good evening Ben.

    Just wondering if you have been affected by Cunards decision not to saill before November. I had the idea you are sailing sometime to New York with them
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487

    Sean_F said:

    tlg86 said:

    Blimey, definitely unprovoked unlike the tea thing.

    It's going down like a bucket of cold sick.

    Even on Twatter.
    Personally I've never shopped in that store, but I thought pretentious twats was kind of their brand identity?
    Being woke is niche marketing. It can work if you build up your brand on that basis.

    If it turns out that you actually route your profits through a tax haven, or get children in South East Asia to manufacture your goods for a pittance, then it can backfire.
    It can also backfire when you're an established everyday brand with a broad customer base who then suddenly wades into politics.

    I think that Yougov poll is pretty clear.
    It is clear, but often people say things in response to opinion polls and don't follow through.

    So, for example, Tim Martin and his fecking Wetherspoon news pushing Brexit enrages me, but there are several things I like Wetherspoons for - and the same goes for the extreme Remainers from my knitting group.

    Maybe your argument is that the risks are only one way, and only brands upsetting the right are at risk?
    No, I think it does work both ways.

    You're right that not everyone will follow through.

    It depends on the product, the alternatives and how strongly how many people feel about it.

    I'm just saying it's not a good idea, in business or in principle - I object to the politicisation of everything.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    Pulpstar said:

    Jenny Harries comments have not aged at all well.
    I was against early lockdown so I am not going to argue with Jenny Harries, but I do think relying on the model will be a public inquiry issue. Are we talking about the 13 year old code, non-peer reviewed, with bugs that I think she means?

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205

    rcs1000 said:

    Who is advising these companies? And why do they listen to them?

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1270812775829450752?s=19

    Nike saw a big upward spike in sales when they backed Colin Kaepernick. Success breeds imitation.
    I don't know about Nike but Paperchase went bust, and Gillette suffered from their "best men can be" ad too.
    Did they? That's sad.

    Personally that ad impressed me, but I'm not going to shave more than once a day to reflect that so had no impact on my expenditure.
    Fair enough. Many people (myself included) found it hectoring and patronising.

    I haven't bought Gillette since.
    Which probably shows the diference between Gilette and Nike.

    Gilette is a necessity, if you're buying razors, shaving foam etc you're doing so because you need to shave. Gilette need regular customers who regularly buy from them, but they can't buy more than they already are doing so, can only buy less. I'm not going to buy more than I already was, but you can buy less.

    OTOH for Nike people make individual purchases that frankly aren't necessities. Someone who is impressed by Nike or want to show their support, or simply through the extra publicity can make a purchase they wouldn't have made otherwise and that's extra for Nike's bottom line.
    I don't own a pair, but Next% Vaporfly Nikes are the quickest running trainer around right now and that's not just hype.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487

    rcs1000 said:

    Who is advising these companies? And why do they listen to them?

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1270812775829450752?s=19

    Nike saw a big upward spike in sales when they backed Colin Kaepernick. Success breeds imitation.
    I don't know about Nike but Paperchase went bust, and Gillette suffered from their "best men can be" ad too.
    Did they? That's sad.

    Personally that ad impressed me, but I'm not going to shave more than once a day to reflect that so had no impact on my expenditure.
    Fair enough. Many people (myself included) found it hectoring and patronising.

    I haven't bought Gillette since.
    Which probably shows the diference between Gilette and Nike.

    Gilette is a necessity, if you're buying razors, shaving foam etc you're doing so because you need to shave. Gilette need regular customers who regularly buy from them, but they can't buy more than they already are doing so, can only buy less. I'm not going to buy more than I already was, but you can buy less.

    OTOH for Nike people make individual purchases that frankly aren't necessities. Someone who is impressed by Nike or want to show their support, or simply through the extra publicity can make a purchase they wouldn't have made otherwise and that's extra for Nike's bottom line.
    To be honest there are alternatives like Wilkinson Sword or Harry's.

    I use those now.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The problem for Starmer however is while he has good favourability ratings his party clearly still does not.

    He is still yet to complete the changes to reform and modernise and moderate his party Kinnock and John Smith managed let alone Tony Blair.

    So even if he does become PM it is hard to see an overall majority for Labour at the next general election unless major changes are made

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1270682450574880768?s=20

    This was a problem for Blair too. He overcame the problem by renaming the party New Labour. New Labour is no longer the reassurance it once was but a simple remarketing strategy would help.
    Blair already had big poll leads when he took over as leader and New Labour accelerated that.

    Tory swing voters are still not ready to risk voting for a Starmer led Labour Party as they were ready to vote for Blair and New Labour
    2020 isn't 1997, it's still 1993!

    1997 comes around again in 2024.

    With the government under the cosh for Covid-19 and a massive economic aftershock on its way, bolstered by no deal, I don't see how this government navigates the next four years without losing rather than retaining support.

    Johnson and/or his successors could pull rabbits from hats, although I can't see the rabbits or the hats at the moment..
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,240

    Sean_F said:

    tlg86 said:

    Blimey, definitely unprovoked unlike the tea thing.

    It's going down like a bucket of cold sick.

    Even on Twatter.
    Personally I've never shopped in that store, but I thought pretentious twats was kind of their brand identity?
    Being woke is niche marketing. It can work if you build up your brand on that basis.

    If it turns out that you actually route your profits through a tax haven, or get children in South East Asia to manufacture your goods for a pittance, then it can backfire.
    Pretty much the only brands I can think of that I would think suits "woke" as part of the brands culture would be Body Shop and Lush. More the latter probably, Lush must be Queen of the "woke" brands.
    What about the Co-Op? Certainly their banking is pretty woke (even after unpleasantness of a few years ago). Their food stores walk the tightrope pretty well; right-ons will seek them out, but I'm not sure that anyone would be actively repelled by them.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    So both Johnson and Trump are managing to buck* the convention that in times of crisis the people rally behind the leader.

    Some achievement, that!

    (*I typed the word carefully)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    Tres said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Who is advising these companies? And why do they listen to them?

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1270812775829450752?s=19

    Nike saw a big upward spike in sales when they backed Colin Kaepernick. Success breeds imitation.
    They've just seen a big downward spike in merchandise.
    There's a great Scott Galloway (NYU Stern School of Business) look at how Nike made the decision to back Kaepernick, it was entirely financially driven.
    It can lead to a short-term spike in sales as the notoriety and debate drive brand awareness but do long-term damage.

    There's a good article here. "Rob Frankel, a branding expert and author of “The Revenge of Brand X,” “but here’s where they went off the rails: when you start managing your brand for political rather than financial reasons, you swan dive into a meat grinder.”

    https://wjla.com/news/nation-world/nike-ad-puts-kaepernick-anthem-controversy-in-spotlight-days-before-launch-of-nfl-season
    Not sure that Nike leading the way to be on the right side of history is going to hurt them that badly long-term.
    Particularly with a product where black people are the style leaders and the innovators.

    I quite liked the Gillette advert, but then I am an out and proud Beta male. As my mother says "a lover, not a fighter"
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205

    rcs1000 said:

    Who is advising these companies? And why do they listen to them?

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1270812775829450752?s=19

    Nike saw a big upward spike in sales when they backed Colin Kaepernick. Success breeds imitation.
    I don't know about Nike but Paperchase went bust, and Gillette suffered from their "best men can be" ad too.
    Did they? That's sad.

    Personally that ad impressed me, but I'm not going to shave more than once a day to reflect that so had no impact on my expenditure.
    Fair enough. Many people (myself included) found it hectoring and patronising.

    I haven't bought Gillette since.
    Which probably shows the diference between Gilette and Nike.

    Gilette is a necessity, if you're buying razors, shaving foam etc you're doing so because you need to shave. Gilette need regular customers who regularly buy from them, but they can't buy more than they already are doing so, can only buy less. I'm not going to buy more than I already was, but you can buy less.

    OTOH for Nike people make individual purchases that frankly aren't necessities. Someone who is impressed by Nike or want to show their support, or simply through the extra publicity can make a purchase they wouldn't have made otherwise and that's extra for Nike's bottom line.
    To be honest there are alternatives like Wilkinson Sword or Harry's.

    I use those now.
    Bic twin blade.
  • booksellerbookseller Posts: 507
    stodge said:

    The GE of 2024 was decided the weekend of the Cummings revelations.

    It only gets worse from there.

    While I would enjoy seeing the protracted and tortured weakening of this administration over the next three years and ten months and its final electoral humiliation in May 2024 as much as the next person, I'm much less convinced.

    The honeymoon has clearly ended but that's a long way from saying defeat is on the cards. We know there is nothing the Conservatives are better at than clinging onto power - anything that money can buy (including votes) will be fair game.

    A lot will depend on which school of thought prevails - there are those who think Covid-19 and the lockdown has wrecked the economy and the legacy of mass unemployment and the impoverishing of millions will cast a dark cloud over the country for a decade or more.

    OTOH, there are those who see covid-19 more as a natural disaster from which recovery will be swift. They argue the middle classes in particular have done very well out of lockdown - working at home, relaxed and not spending (apart from online). They'll have plenty of cash to splash when the shops re-open and this will give the economy a huge boost ensuring most jobs are safe and life will swiftly return to normal.

    As with all good schools, both have elements of truth - neither has a monopoly.
    I think this is a very good analysis. Coronavirus has a ways to play out yet, and there is still lots we don't know. But I think on balance there will be some heavy economic fallout which will start to impact on the middle classes, not to mention some strange bedfellows jostling in the queue at JobCentre Plus come the Autumn. But there is also plenty of time for Boris and Dom to ride this one out and tweak the narrative as things get back to normal towards the end of 2021.
This discussion has been closed.