Also bizarrely patriarchal to hold a man responsible for his wife's opinions.
It’s quite mind boggling
I suspect he could have stayed if he'd been prepared to publicly denounce her.
Yes, maybe he could have ritually paraded her, shaved and naked, through the streets of Santa Monica, to be pelted with cow dung. That would probably have been enough. What is his problem?
Free speech does not mean speech free of consequence.
This was ultimately a capitalist commercial decision. Those comments are anathema to multicultural teams and supporters.
Why do you think the horse bolted? Was it just horsey high spirits? Did he spot some lovely fresh hay on Northumberland Avenue?
Who brings a horse to a protest?
The British Police. Better horses than guns and tear gas. Horses are noble creatures and can without weaponry calm the situation when the Police are massively outnumbered.
I once while out had to call 999 as I could see a gang of about 30 youths causing trouble. Within a couple of minutes two female Police Officers on horses who'd been nearby arrived and calmed the situation. One mouthy git thought he could run away briefly - one horse and officer calmly went past him and made it clear there was no outrunning a horse LOL.
It would have taken many more, or more aggressive, officers on foot to do what just two mounted officers could do. Same in crowd control situations too.
Whilst I do think Starmer will win the next election I confess to sharing the @isam experience of watching that particular broadcast by him. He did not grab me. Indeed he lost the battle for my attention to his desk and surroundings. So he does need to work on this.
It's far too soon to tell, but it would be truly remarkable if Labour were able to win the next General Election outright.
On the current boundaries, seat number 123 on the Labour target list is South Ribble, with a Con maj of over 11,000 and requiring a 10.4% swing to flip; moreover, there are 16 SNP seats in the list ahead of that, and for each one of those SLAB can't win back an even safer target in England or Wales has to be converted. If Labour can't make any progress at all in Scotland (not at all beyond the bounds of possibility) then the magic target becomes Basingstoke (Con maj 14,200, 13% swing required) which has been Tory continuously since 1924. If Scotland secedes before the next GE then the new magic target becomes the slightly more achievable Stevenage (Con maj 8,500, 9% swing,) but that still requires a swing to Labour slightly in excess of the 1997 Blair landslide to achieve an absolute majority of one.
Beyond that, we have to consider it likely that the Government will use its solid Commons majority to implement long-overdue boundary changes at some point before the next election. Whatever the outcome of such reforms, one has to presume that they are unlikely to be advantageous to Labour which has historically benefitted from holding many under-sized constituencies in urban areas and in Wales.
A much more realistic target is, of course, to strip the Tories of their majority and govern as a minority or in a coalition; Labour doesn't even have to become the largest party to do that. However, unless Scotland has gone by then, the English Tories will then be able to weaponise the SNP against Labour in the campaign again, which may result in a situation not necessarily to Starmer's advantage.
Though if Scotland has independence by the time of the next rUK GE, I cannot see that playing well for the Tories.
A Lab SNP coalition/Confidence and Supply may not be that scary to English voters. Ms Sturgeon is well thought of South of the border, in a way that Salmond never was.
On the first point - I'm not sure it hurts the Tories that much. There may be a large cohort of English public opinion that would be distraught at the departure of Scotland but I'd be surprised. Scotland isn't a possession, and the United Kingdom as a structure is in long-term decline.
On the second, the jury's out. Sturgeon was already in charge in 2015 and the Tories seemed to be able to make political capital out of portraying EdM as being in her pocket back then. Yes, she polls reasonably well because she is well presented, and most voters outside of Scotland know next-to-nothing of her Government or its policies (independence aside) and do not have to live under them, but the West Lothian Question applies at this point. If a substantial number of English voters conclude that they object to the Scottish Nationalists having a controlling stake in their Government, when they themselves have very little say anymore in what happens in Scotland, then that could be damaging to Labour's chances.
Surely the main point is that Sturgeon (or, more likely, her successor) would demand indyref2 as the price of a coalition, of any kind, with PM manque Starmer
And he would have to refuse in case the referendum was lost.
There will have been a referendum before that ever happens
Scotland may well go Indy at some point, but it won’t be in the next four years. The Tories have nothing to lose and everything to gain by refusing a referendum, even if Sturgeon wins every seat in Holyrood.
It cements the Tories as the party of the union in the north. It will also be quite popular with the majority of Scots who don’t want a referendum just yet. And the longer the Tories hold out the more likely Indy or the SNP will become less popular over time. All pendulums swing.
The Tories will point blank refuse a vote. Sorry.
Contradictory bits bolded. They are contradictory because Holyrood uses proportional representation. If majorities of both seats and votes are won by pro-indyref2 parties, the Tories will agree to an indyref2 for straightforward legitimacy reasons. The thing is, though, the condition clause in that statement won't be satisfied.
No, they won’t grant one. Boris doesn’t care. Look at how he handled Dominic Cummings.
That would be Christmas for the SNP. He could easily destroy the Union out of nothing but his own stupidity if he were to take that attitude.
But, again, why would he care? It is clear 30-40% of Scots are fiercely pro union. He gets their votes if he takes a firm line. And he prevents a referendum which might break the union.
He can wait until the SNP finally fuck up (and they will, all parties do), or he can wait until he loses in 2024 and it is someone else’s problem. Your analysis is juvenile
I'd say 25% for sure, not sure about the rest, as per discussion earlier today/yesterday. Remember
(a) Mr Johnson is NOT well regarded uo here, even by the reactionary old farts whose politics were set in cast iron before Suez (as I know from my own family)
(b) Ms Davidson went on and on and on and on and on about no Indy Referendum, to the degree of deleting any Conservative Party identity from the election bunf. And yet she didn't get as far as you suggest.
And what happens when HM QE1 passes the throne to Charles III? Now that's a not very grey swan event.
Probably all true. You know better than me
But the Tory government will not grant a referendum so you’re looking at 2024 earliest
Why do you think the horse bolted? Was it just horsey high spirits? Did he spot some lovely fresh hay on Northumberland Avenue?
Who brings a horse to a protest?
Did you watch it live and how it developed
No. Riot porn isn't my thing. I tend to instinctively side with the people without the horses in these situations, I think they stir up folk memories of my Saxon peasant ancestors being hacked to pieces by their Norman overlords.
Your folk have a much more developed memory than my own!
Tonight's polls have Labour in the 38% - 40% range across GB. Were that to happen at a GE, I would expect a Labour vote share in Scotland close to 30%.
Without agreeing with what Dom did or indeed the MP voting mess, in fact protesting in such large groups is probably worse right now whatever the worthiness of the motivation.
Does anyone care about this at the moment? There are more than 4 years to go.
***Pedantry alert***
Slightly less than four years, assuming that it's neither called early nor that the FTPA is repealed or amended to permit extension. The current date of the next GE is 2nd May 2024.
Why do you think the horse bolted? Was it just horsey high spirits? Did he spot some lovely fresh hay on Northumberland Avenue?
Amazing incompetence to deploy a horse and/or rider for riot control not able to cope with a riot.
I used to ride quite a lot. Even the best trained horse will freak out if it is bombarded with rocks, bottles, fireworks and BICYCLES
But go ahead. Knock yourself out, just like the policeman on the horse
Pretty certain you haven't ridden a police trained horse all that frequently.
I’ve ridden a fine Irish mare for six miles at full speed down the roads of Connemara. I’ve ridden a horse all day around the bridleways of Cornwall going from pub to pub until I got so drunk I tried to ride down a narrow holloway and had to go to hospital from all the tree branches I hit. I’ve ridden a mustang down monument valley arizona literally whooping with glee as we lit out for the horizon
The horses were all fine
I say this not because it is relevant, but just because I like to boast
This mass anguish and knee bending and ritualised white self loathing is quite fascinating.
It is religious in tone. It is the pilgrimage of grace. It is Aztec nobles piercing their penises with cactus thorns to male the sun rise. It is Shiites whipping themselves to bloody frenzy during the mourning of Muharram
Above all, it is the flagellants who famously paraded themselves around Europe.... during the Black Death
Or maybe it's just people protesting against a bad thing?
I'm sure it is, but it is also about being seen to protest in a particular way by some, including many very distant from the events who have nothing to do with the issues at hand, and seeking such solidarity seems more about self satisfaction.
This mass anguish and knee bending and ritualised white self loathing is quite fascinating.
It is religious in tone. It is the pilgrimage of grace. It is Aztec nobles piercing their penises with cactus thorns to male the sun rise. It is Shiites whipping themselves to bloody frenzy during the mourning of Muharram
Above all, it is the flagellants who famously paraded themselves around Europe.... during the Black Death
Why do you think the horse bolted? Was it just horsey high spirits? Did he spot some lovely fresh hay on Northumberland Avenue?
Usually police horses are draft crosses for quiet temperament and then are trained and selected to be bomb proof. But they are not machines. Could be nothing special spooked the horse, or could be someone or something hurt it.
Somebody hit it with a bike, while also fireworks where being set off. There is footage.
Unless the horse changed colour after being hit by the bike or there is further footage I haven't seen then no they didn't.
Tonight's polls have Labour in the 38% - 40% range across GB. Were that to happen at a GE, I would expect a Labour vote share in Scotland close to 30%.
Not quite sure of that. A centrist dad like SKS will find the SNP already ensconced on 'his' part of the spectrum. He also has to cope with SLAB luminaries such as Mr Leonard and Ms Baillie - though I'm not clear on what they think of him. And he'd lose votes that would have gone to Tommy Sheridan's mob and their Corbynite successors - though a lot of those would go to the Greens anyway. But you have a 10 percentage point drop priced in anyway.
Why do you think the horse bolted? Was it just horsey high spirits? Did he spot some lovely fresh hay on Northumberland Avenue?
Who brings a horse to a protest?
Did you watch it live and how it developed
No. Riot porn isn't my thing. I tend to instinctively side with the people without the horses in these situations, I think they stir up folk memories of my Saxon peasant ancestors being hacked to pieces by their Norman overlords.
Well that just shows how foolish it is to have an opinion based on something you have not watched and just use your political prejeudice
My only opinion was that mounted police are not a good means of crowd control, they tend to inflame the situation and increase the risk of someone getting hurt. I don't think that's particularly prejudiced, certainly not by the standards of some of the commentary here.
Scot Goes Pop / Panelbase poll: Sensation as Scottish voters, by a 3-1 margin, say that the Scottish Government's handling of the pandemic makes them "more confident" that Scotland will be well-governed as an independent country, and that the UK government's response to the crisis makes them "less convinced" that Scotland is safer as part of the UK http://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2020/06/scot-goes-pop-panelbase-poll-sensation.html?m=1 Also 52% again for YES
Johnson and his government are going to be held to account for myriad mistakes in response to this crisis despite what will no doubt be efforts to deflect responsibility. But I fail to see how people voluntarily choosing to congregate in thousands against advice are not responsible for their own actions - that's not casting blame on them, it is respecting their agency as human beings who have made a choice. They're not children, why wouldn't they be responsible for their own actions?
This mass anguish and knee bending and ritualised white self loathing is quite fascinating.
It is religious in tone. It is the pilgrimage of grace. It is Aztec nobles piercing their penises with cactus thorns to male the sun rise. It is Shiites whipping themselves to bloody frenzy during the mourning of Muharram
Above all, it is the flagellants who famously paraded themselves around Europe.... during the Black Death
Or maybe it's just people protesting against a bad thing?
I'm sure it is, but it is also about being seen to protest in a particular way by some, including many very distant from the events who have nothing to do with the issues at hand, and seeking such solidarity seems more about self satisfaction.
Why do you think the horse bolted? Was it just horsey high spirits? Did he spot some lovely fresh hay on Northumberland Avenue?
Usually police horses are draft crosses for quiet temperament and then are trained and selected to be bomb proof. But they are not machines. Could be nothing special spooked the horse, or could be someone or something hurt it.
Somebody hit it with a bike, while also fireworks where being set off. There is footage.
Unless the horse changed colour after being hit by the bike or there is further footage I haven't seen then no they didn't.
And the horse that got bumped by the bike reacted the with the cool calm detachment that I would expect of a police horse.
This mass anguish and knee bending and ritualised white self loathing is quite fascinating.
It is religious in tone. It is the pilgrimage of grace. It is Aztec nobles piercing their penises with cactus thorns to male the sun rise. It is Shiites whipping themselves to bloody frenzy during the mourning of Muharram
Above all, it is the flagellants who famously paraded themselves around Europe.... during the Black Death
Or maybe it's just people protesting against a bad thing?
I'm sure it is, but it is also about being seen to protest in a particular way by some, including many very distant from the events who have nothing to do with the issues at hand, and seeking such solidarity seems more about self satisfaction.
The idea that white people shouldn't care about racism towards black people seems a bit racist.
Scot Goes Pop / Panelbase poll: Sensation as Scottish voters, by a 3-1 margin, say that the Scottish Government's handling of the pandemic makes them "more confident" that Scotland will be well-governed as an independent country, and that the UK government's response to the crisis makes them "less convinced" that Scotland is safer as part of the UK http://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2020/06/scot-goes-pop-panelbase-poll-sensation.html?m=1 Also 52% again for YES
Good luck as an independent nation. You can always move south to London malc if you want to hold on to your money and get decent health care. Welcome to London!
Also bizarrely patriarchal to hold a man responsible for his wife's opinions.
It’s quite mind boggling
I suspect he could have stayed if he'd been prepared to publicly denounce her.
Yes, maybe he could have ritually paraded her, shaved and naked, through the streets of Santa Monica, to be pelted with cow dung. That would probably have been enough. What is his problem?
Free speech does not mean speech free of consequence.
This was ultimately a capitalist commercial decision. Those comments are anathema to multicultural teams and supporters.
She Ratnered her husband.
You seriously think its ok to punish someone else for the comments of their spouse?
This mass anguish and knee bending and ritualised white self loathing is quite fascinating.
It is religious in tone. It is the pilgrimage of grace. It is Aztec nobles piercing their penises with cactus thorns to male the sun rise. It is Shiites whipping themselves to bloody frenzy during the mourning of Muharram
Above all, it is the flagellants who famously paraded themselves around Europe.... during the Black Death
Or maybe it's just people protesting against a bad thing?
I'm sure it is, but it is also about being seen to protest in a particular way by some, including many very distant from the events who have nothing to do with the issues at hand, and seeking such solidarity seems more about self satisfaction.
The idea that white people shouldn't care about racism towards black people seems a bit racist.
Good thing that's not what I meant, nor what I said, then. The idea that you think it was says something however. No doubt it is easier to believe that was what it meant.
Why do you think the horse bolted? Was it just horsey high spirits? Did he spot some lovely fresh hay on Northumberland Avenue?
Amazing incompetence to deploy a horse and/or rider for riot control not able to cope with a riot.
I used to ride quite a lot. Even the best trained horse will freak out if it is bombarded with rocks, bottles, fireworks and BICYCLES
But go ahead. Knock yourself out, just like the policeman on the horse
Pretty certain you haven't ridden a police trained horse all that frequently.
I’ve ridden a fine Irish mare for six miles at full speed down the roads of Connemara. I’ve ridden a horse all day around the bridleways of Cornwall going from pub to pub until I got so drunk I tried to ride down a narrow holloway and had to go to hospital from all the tree branches I hit. I’ve ridden a mustang down monument valley arizona literally whooping with glee as we lit out for the horizon
The horses were all fine
I say this not because it is relevant, but just because I like to boast
Well done and something to boast loudly about.
Haha. Indeed. Horse riding is amazing
I was never very good in the saddle but I had the bollocks to go for it and let the horse decide. Galloping madly - anywhere wild - is a uniquely brilliant feeling. You and the animal are both having fun. It is healing and also exhilarating.
Just imagine the added frisson of trampling soap dodging, lefty virtue signallers underfoot.
If I were the Conservatives, I’d be more worried about the rise in Sir Keir’s ratings than the fall in Boris Johnson’s. It’s not as though he’s done much, so it looks like a reflection of growing antipathy to the Conservatives, and an increased warmth to the Labour leader as an instinctive reaction.
Why do you think the horse bolted? Was it just horsey high spirits? Did he spot some lovely fresh hay on Northumberland Avenue?
Amazing incompetence to deploy a horse and/or rider for riot control not able to cope with a riot.
I used to ride quite a lot. Even the best trained horse will freak out if it is bombarded with rocks, bottles, fireworks and BICYCLES
But go ahead. Knock yourself out, just like the policeman on the horse
Pretty certain you haven't ridden a police trained horse all that frequently.
I’ve ridden a fine Irish mare for six miles at full speed down the roads of Connemara. I’ve ridden a horse all day around the bridleways of Cornwall going from pub to pub until I got so drunk I tried to ride down a narrow holloway and had to go to hospital from all the tree branches I hit. I’ve ridden a mustang down monument valley arizona literally whooping with glee as we lit out for the horizon
The horses were all fine
I say this not because it is relevant, but just because I like to boast
Well done and something to boast loudly about.
Haha. Indeed. Horse riding is amazing
I was never very good in the saddle but I had the bollocks to go for it and let the horse decide. Galloping madly - anywhere wild - is a uniquely brilliant feeling. You and the animal are both having fun. It is healing and also exhilarating.
Scary for me, my daughter has horses, has had since she was very young. I used to have to catch them when they got out.
Why do you think the horse bolted? Was it just horsey high spirits? Did he spot some lovely fresh hay on Northumberland Avenue?
Amazing incompetence to deploy a horse and/or rider for riot control not able to cope with a riot.
I used to ride quite a lot. Even the best trained horse will freak out if it is bombarded with rocks, bottles, fireworks and BICYCLES
But go ahead. Knock yourself out, just like the policeman on the horse
Pretty certain you haven't ridden a police trained horse all that frequently.
I’ve ridden a fine Irish mare for six miles at full speed down the roads of Connemara. I’ve ridden a horse all day around the bridleways of Cornwall going from pub to pub until I got so drunk I tried to ride down a narrow holloway and had to go to hospital from all the tree branches I hit. I’ve ridden a mustang down monument valley arizona literally whooping with glee as we lit out for the horizon
The horses were all fine
Yes, horses are not daft, they avoid putting themselves in harms way, less bothered by their rider.
It takes a lot of training to convince a horse to put itself in danger, such as a police or cavalry horse, or even to run in the Grand National.
Also bizarrely patriarchal to hold a man responsible for his wife's opinions.
It’s quite mind boggling
I suspect he could have stayed if he'd been prepared to publicly denounce her.
Yes, maybe he could have ritually paraded her, shaved and naked, through the streets of Santa Monica, to be pelted with cow dung. That would probably have been enough. What is his problem?
Free speech does not mean speech free of consequence.
This was ultimately a capitalist commercial decision. Those comments are anathema to multicultural teams and supporters.
She Ratnered her husband.
You seriously think its ok to punish someone else for the comments of their spouse?
No no no
What if he was asked if he supported what his wife said and he said yes?
Why do you think the horse bolted? Was it just horsey high spirits? Did he spot some lovely fresh hay on Northumberland Avenue?
Usually police horses are draft crosses for quiet temperament and then are trained and selected to be bomb proof. But they are not machines. Could be nothing special spooked the horse, or could be someone or something hurt it.
Somebody hit it with a bike, while also fireworks where being set off. There is footage.
Unless the horse changed colour after being hit by the bike or there is further footage I haven't seen then no they didn't.
No, that is a different clip of a different horse. The Mail have photos, two bikes have been thrown at the horse and it bolts.
Scot Goes Pop / Panelbase poll: Sensation as Scottish voters, by a 3-1 margin, say that the Scottish Government's handling of the pandemic makes them "more confident" that Scotland will be well-governed as an independent country, and that the UK government's response to the crisis makes them "less convinced" that Scotland is safer as part of the UK http://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2020/06/scot-goes-pop-panelbase-poll-sensation.html?m=1 Also 52% again for YES
Good luck as an independent nation. You can always move south to London malc if you want to hold on to your money and get decent health care. Welcome to London!
You read the stats on NHS Ave it , Scotland knocks English NHS into a cocked hat on every known statistic.
She's a Labour MP. If he disagrees with her he should say so.
If Starmer has to respond every time the likes of Dawn Butler say something daft he'll be working 24/7.
Maybe so. But he does not seem to respond when any Labour MP says or does anything stupid. Kinnock, Corbyn, Ali, Duffield and Gardiner broke lockdown without a peep from Starmer. He seems reluctant to stand up for what is right if it means criticising a colleague.
As I have said previously the protesters are 100% at fault here. The police should be given the authority to do whatever is necessary to deal with these people.
Absolutely. A few knees on necks and it will be sorted out. D*mned protesters!!!!!!
And people wonder how US coppers got into this mess....
Or we can allow people to run around without respect for the law, spreading Covid everywhere? They will be the first to whinge when they or their family get Covid. But I am more concerned about the impact on the ordinary decent British who have no truck with these people but who will also be affected.
Nonetheless, you cannot give the police the authority to do "... whatever is necessary ..." because such blanket permissions give the green light to brutality. The police must remain within the law themselves.
The USA proves that brutal policing does not work and there are plenty of other examples world-wide too
If I were the Conservatives, I’d be more worried about the rise in Sir Keir’s ratings than the fall in Boris Johnson’s. It’s not as though he’s done much, so it looks like a reflection of growing antipathy to the Conservatives, and an increased warmth to the Labour leader as an instinctive reaction.
Could well be. Problematically for them perhaps is that the most trenchant criticism many seem to have about him is that he is boring, lacking in charisma and so on. To my mind while that can make gaining support quite difficult, if support/favour has increased for other reasons (such as reaction against another) that negative quality may not lead, therefore, to that much of a decrease in support when he does get more attention and takes more actual action.
Also bizarrely patriarchal to hold a man responsible for his wife's opinions.
It’s quite mind boggling
I suspect he could have stayed if he'd been prepared to publicly denounce her.
Yes, maybe he could have ritually paraded her, shaved and naked, through the streets of Santa Monica, to be pelted with cow dung. That would probably have been enough. What is his problem?
Free speech does not mean speech free of consequence.
This was ultimately a capitalist commercial decision. Those comments are anathema to multicultural teams and supporters.
She Ratnered her husband.
You seriously think its ok to punish someone else for the comments of their spouse?
No no no
Employment law is much weaker in the States, it is possible to sack people for no reason at all. Ultimately decided by cold hard cash, it is best not to be a financial liability.
Tonight's polls have Labour in the 38% - 40% range across GB. Were that to happen at a GE, I would expect a Labour vote share in Scotland close to 30%.
Not quite sure of that. A centrist dad like SKS will find the SNP already ensconced on 'his' part of the spectrum. He also has to cope with SLAB luminaries such as Mr Leonard and Ms Baillie - though I'm not clear on what they think of him. And he'd lose votes that would have gone to Tommy Sheridan's mob and their Corbynite successors - though a lot of those would go to the Greens anyway. But you have a 10 percentage point drop priced in anyway.
SKS is not centrist - quite a bit to left of Gordon Brown and Milliband. It is not obvious to me why he would poll less well in Scotland than Corbyn managed in 2017 on a similar GB vote share - and when Labour's surge there came late and surprised almost everybody. I take the view that if Labour has clear momentum across GB and is clearly on the way to making substantial gains, that will impact in Scotland too.
As I have said previously the protesters are 100% at fault here. The police should be given the authority to do whatever is necessary to deal with these people.
Absolutely. A few knees on necks and it will be sorted out. D*mned protesters!!!!!!
And people wonder how US coppers got into this mess....
Or we can allow people to run around without respect for the law, spreading Covid everywhere? They will be the first to whinge when they or their family get Covid. But I am more concerned about the impact on the ordinary decent British who have no truck with these people but who will also be affected.
Nonetheless, you cannot give the police the authority to do "... whatever is necessary ..." because such blanket permissions give the green light to brutality. The police must remain within the law themselves.
The USA proves that brutal policing does not work and there are plenty of other examples world-wide too
Well, extremely brutal policing does work in ensuring quiesence, there are plenty of examples of that world wide too, but it's not a model we'd like to follow.
Why do you think the horse bolted? Was it just horsey high spirits? Did he spot some lovely fresh hay on Northumberland Avenue?
Who brings a horse to a protest?
Did you watch it live and how it developed
No. Riot porn isn't my thing. I tend to instinctively side with the people without the horses in these situations, I think they stir up folk memories of my Saxon peasant ancestors being hacked to pieces by their Norman overlords.
Well that just shows how foolish it is to have an opinion based on something you have not watched and just use your political prejeudice
My only opinion was that mounted police are not a good means of crowd control, they tend to inflame the situation and increase the risk of someone getting hurt. I don't think that's particularly prejudiced, certainly not by the standards of some of the commentary here.
Well tonight they calmed the situation to much praise from the journalists present
Also watching it in real time it turned a dangerous situation into a controlled one which prevented much more serious consequences
Also bizarrely patriarchal to hold a man responsible for his wife's opinions.
It’s quite mind boggling
I suspect he could have stayed if he'd been prepared to publicly denounce her.
Yes, maybe he could have ritually paraded her, shaved and naked, through the streets of Santa Monica, to be pelted with cow dung. That would probably have been enough. What is his problem?
Free speech does not mean speech free of consequence.
This was ultimately a capitalist commercial decision. Those comments are anathema to multicultural teams and supporters.
She Ratnered her husband.
You seriously think its ok to punish someone else for the comments of their spouse?
No no no
Employment law is much weaker in the States, it is possible to sack people for no reason at all. Ultimately decided by cold hard cash, it is best not to be a financial liability.
Most people work on 'at will' contracts, literally at the will of the employer.
Scot Goes Pop / Panelbase poll: Sensation as Scottish voters, by a 3-1 margin, say that the Scottish Government's handling of the pandemic makes them "more confident" that Scotland will be well-governed as an independent country, and that the UK government's response to the crisis makes them "less convinced" that Scotland is safer as part of the UK http://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2020/06/scot-goes-pop-panelbase-poll-sensation.html?m=1 Also 52% again for YES
Good luck as an independent nation. You can always move south to London malc if you want to hold on to your money and get decent health care. Welcome to London!
You read the stats on NHS Ave it , Scotland knocks English NHS into a cocked hat on every known statistic.
HA. HAHA. HAHAHA. HAHAHAHAHAHA. Scottish healthcare is complete LOL
This mass anguish and knee bending and ritualised white self loathing is quite fascinating.
It is religious in tone. It is the pilgrimage of grace. It is Aztec nobles piercing their penises with cactus thorns to male the sun rise. It is Shiites whipping themselves to bloody frenzy during the mourning of Muharram
Above all, it is the flagellants who famously paraded themselves around Europe.... during the Black Death
Or maybe it's just people protesting against a bad thing?
I'm sure it is, but it is also about being seen to protest in a particular way by some, including many very distant from the events who have nothing to do with the issues at hand, and seeking such solidarity seems more about self satisfaction.
It will change nothing
Probably. In hoping that all societies would improve themselves I would like to believe the view that cumulative pressure means this time things will change substantively, but I'm not yet really seeing what is so different this time from any other.
If I were the Conservatives, I’d be more worried about the rise in Sir Keir’s ratings than the fall in Boris Johnson’s. It’s not as though he’s done much, so it looks like a reflection of growing antipathy to the Conservatives, and an increased warmth to the Labour leader as an instinctive reaction.
Keir Starmer appears anodyne, hasn't had to make any policy decisions (so hasn't had to upset anyone) and is not Jeremy Corbyn. This is all we need to explain why he is doing well. He looks reasonable and doesn't frighten anybody.
If he builds a substantial lead as best PM *and* manages to hold onto it until he's within sight of the next General Election, then the Conservatives might start to worry. Right now the polls give us something new to talk about, but they're supremely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
This mass anguish and knee bending and ritualised white self loathing is quite fascinating.
It is religious in tone. It is the pilgrimage of grace. It is Aztec nobles piercing their penises with cactus thorns to male the sun rise. It is Shiites whipping themselves to bloody frenzy during the mourning of Muharram
Above all, it is the flagellants who famously paraded themselves around Europe.... during the Black Death
Or maybe it's just people protesting against a bad thing?
I'm sure it is, but it is also about being seen to protest in a particular way by some, including many very distant from the events who have nothing to do with the issues at hand, and seeking such solidarity seems more about self satisfaction.
The idea that white people shouldn't care about racism towards black people seems a bit racist.
Good thing that's not what I meant, nor what I said, then. The idea that you think it was says something however. No doubt it is easier to believe that was what it meant.
What did you mean then? You seemed to be saying that people "distant from the events who have nothing to do with the issues at hand", by which I assumed you meant white people, could only be protesting out of a desire for "self satisfaction", as if there were no legitimate reason for white people to feel a sense of genuine "solidarity" with the struggle of the black community against racism.
As I have said previously the protesters are 100% at fault here. The police should be given the authority to do whatever is necessary to deal with these people.
Absolutely. A few knees on necks and it will be sorted out. D*mned protesters!!!!!!
And people wonder how US coppers got into this mess....
Or we can allow people to run around without respect for the law, spreading Covid everywhere? They will be the first to whinge when they or their family get Covid. But I am more concerned about the impact on the ordinary decent British who have no truck with these people but who will also be affected.
Nonetheless, you cannot give the police the authority to do "... whatever is necessary ..." because such blanket permissions give the green light to brutality. The police must remain within the law themselves.
The USA proves that brutal policing does not work and there are plenty of other examples world-wide too
Or the protesters can just stay at home and respect the law.
Why do you think the horse bolted? Was it just horsey high spirits? Did he spot some lovely fresh hay on Northumberland Avenue?
Who brings a horse to a protest?
Did you watch it live and how it developed
No. Riot porn isn't my thing. I tend to instinctively side with the people without the horses in these situations, I think they stir up folk memories of my Saxon peasant ancestors being hacked to pieces by their Norman overlords.
Well that just shows how foolish it is to have an opinion based on something you have not watched and just use your political prejeudice
My only opinion was that mounted police are not a good means of crowd control, they tend to inflame the situation and increase the risk of someone getting hurt. I don't think that's particularly prejudiced, certainly not by the standards of some of the commentary here.
Well tonight they calmed the situation to much praise from the journalists present
Also watching it in real time it turned a dangerous situation into a controlled one which prevented much more serious consequences
It also highlights the big difference between UK and US policing. We have thugs throw stuff and the police manage to control the situation with kettling / horses. In the US they immediately reach for the bean bag rounds, plastic bullets, tear gas, armoured cars.
Scot Goes Pop / Panelbase poll: Sensation as Scottish voters, by a 3-1 margin, say that the Scottish Government's handling of the pandemic makes them "more confident" that Scotland will be well-governed as an independent country, and that the UK government's response to the crisis makes them "less convinced" that Scotland is safer as part of the UK http://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2020/06/scot-goes-pop-panelbase-poll-sensation.html?m=1 Also 52% again for YES
Actually 48% Yes including Don't Knows and only 34% want indyref2 in the next 2 years
Thank you for an informed view. This is the latest dud bullet that the Scottish press have rustled up, good to know that it's even more rubbish than I first suspected.
Difference between UK and US...they have kettled the hardcore. Dawn will be complaining shortly this shouldn't be allowed as increases transmission of covid.
As I have said previously the protesters are 100% at fault here. The police should be given the authority to do whatever is necessary to deal with these people.
Absolutely. A few knees on necks and it will be sorted out. D*mned protesters!!!!!!
And people wonder how US coppers got into this mess....
Or we can allow people to run around without respect for the law, spreading Covid everywhere? They will be the first to whinge when they or their family get Covid. But I am more concerned about the impact on the ordinary decent British who have no truck with these people but who will also be affected.
Nonetheless, you cannot give the police the authority to do "... whatever is necessary ..." because such blanket permissions give the green light to brutality. The police must remain within the law themselves.
The USA proves that brutal policing does not work and there are plenty of other examples world-wide too
Or the protesters can just stay at home and respect the law.
Stay alert>don't riot>save lives
And if my granny had wheels, she would be a wagon .....
This mass anguish and knee bending and ritualised white self loathing is quite fascinating.
It is religious in tone. It is the pilgrimage of grace. It is Aztec nobles piercing their penises with cactus thorns to male the sun rise. It is Shiites whipping themselves to bloody frenzy during the mourning of Muharram
Above all, it is the flagellants who famously paraded themselves around Europe.... during the Black Death
Or maybe it's just people protesting against a bad thing?
I'm sure it is, but it is also about being seen to protest in a particular way by some, including many very distant from the events who have nothing to do with the issues at hand, and seeking such solidarity seems more about self satisfaction.
The idea that white people shouldn't care about racism towards black people seems a bit racist.
Good thing that's not what I meant, nor what I said, then. The idea that you think it was says something however. No doubt it is easier to believe that was what it meant.
What did you mean then? You seemed to be saying that people "distant from the events who have nothing to do with the issues at hand", by which I assumed you meant white people, could only be protesting out of a desire for "self satisfaction", as if there were no legitimate reason for white people to feel a sense of genuine "solidarity" with the struggle of the black community against racism.
I said nothing at all about race and your assumption was fatuous and without any evidenced foundation. I was referring to people, of any race, jumping on to a US focused matter to share in the moment of a sequence of events which does not involve them in the slightest - since whilst we have many actual problems in this country for instance, and these have indeed been raised, the labelling of the action and the reason for them in the first place is indeed USA centred. I do not deride in any way concerns in the UK or other places at issues within their own borders, which are being raised by protestors, but the timing, and marketing, of these protests is quite blatantly the result of following a trend. Solidarity with the issues is one thing, solidarity with a branded protest about an event in the USA is not quite the same thing, though there will be overlap.
I also opened my remarks with 'I'm sure it is' in response to the comment about people protesting a bad thing, to make abundantly clear that I do not think protests are without merit, in fact if people have concerns I welcome protests (though in the current public health situation I think simultaneously seeking to avoid any responsibility should lead to ill effect is infantilising). What I do think is people can have complex and multiple motivations, and the timing of these protests outside the USA and tying it into a trending moment in the USA is, for some (I never said all) about signalling virtue (and to be clear once again, I don't regard virtue signalling as a left or right wing thing, nor inherently wrong).
Why do you think the horse bolted? Was it just horsey high spirits? Did he spot some lovely fresh hay on Northumberland Avenue?
Who brings a horse to a protest?
Did you watch it live and how it developed
No. Riot porn isn't my thing. I tend to instinctively side with the people without the horses in these situations, I think they stir up folk memories of my Saxon peasant ancestors being hacked to pieces by their Norman overlords.
Well that just shows how foolish it is to have an opinion based on something you have not watched and just use your political prejeudice
My only opinion was that mounted police are not a good means of crowd control, they tend to inflame the situation and increase the risk of someone getting hurt. I don't think that's particularly prejudiced, certainly not by the standards of some of the commentary here.
Well tonight they calmed the situation to much praise from the journalists present
Also watching it in real time it turned a dangerous situation into a controlled one which prevented much more serious consequences
It also highlights the big difference between UK and US policing. We have thugs throw stuff and the police manage to control the situation with kettling / horses. In the US they immediately reach for the bean bag rounds, plastic bullets, tear gas, armoured cars.
Hey, if you've gone to the trouble of getting an MRAP you'd be a fool not to use it as much as you can, right?
If I were the Conservatives, I’d be more worried about the rise in Sir Keir’s ratings than the fall in Boris Johnson’s. It’s not as though he’s done much, so it looks like a reflection of growing antipathy to the Conservatives, and an increased warmth to the Labour leader as an instinctive reaction.
Keir Starmer appears anodyne, hasn't had to make any policy decisions (so hasn't had to upset anyone) and is not Jeremy Corbyn. This is all we need to explain why he is doing well. He looks reasonable and doesn't frighten anybody.
If he builds a substantial lead as best PM *and* manages to hold onto it until he's within sight of the next General Election, then the Conservatives might start to worry. Right now the polls give us something new to talk about, but they're supremely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
That is all true - but if the election is on 2nd May 2024 we are now as close to Polling Day as to Theresa May becoming PM. Is that such a long time ago?
Why do you think the horse bolted? Was it just horsey high spirits? Did he spot some lovely fresh hay on Northumberland Avenue?
Amazing incompetence to deploy a horse and/or rider for riot control not able to cope with a riot.
I used to ride quite a lot. Even the best trained horse will freak out if it is bombarded with rocks, bottles, fireworks and BICYCLES
But go ahead. Knock yourself out, just like the policeman on the horse
Pretty certain you haven't ridden a police trained horse all that frequently.
I’ve ridden a fine Irish mare for six miles at full speed down the roads of Connemara. I’ve ridden a horse all day around the bridleways of Cornwall going from pub to pub until I got so drunk I tried to ride down a narrow holloway and had to go to hospital from all the tree branches I hit. I’ve ridden a mustang down monument valley arizona literally whooping with glee as we lit out for the horizon
The horses were all fine
I say this not because it is relevant, but just because I like to boast
This mass anguish and knee bending and ritualised white self loathing is quite fascinating.
It is religious in tone. It is the pilgrimage of grace. It is Aztec nobles piercing their penises with cactus thorns to male the sun rise. It is Shiites whipping themselves to bloody frenzy during the mourning of Muharram
Above all, it is the flagellants who famously paraded themselves around Europe.... during the Black Death
Or maybe it's just people protesting against a bad thing?
I'm sure it is, but it is also about being seen to protest in a particular way by some, including many very distant from the events who have nothing to do with the issues at hand, and seeking such solidarity seems more about self satisfaction.
The idea that white people shouldn't care about racism towards black people seems a bit racist.
Good thing that's not what I meant, nor what I said, then. The idea that you think it was says something however. No doubt it is easier to believe that was what it meant.
What did you mean then? You seemed to be saying that people "distant from the events who have nothing to do with the issues at hand", by which I assumed you meant white people, could only be protesting out of a desire for "self satisfaction", as if there were no legitimate reason for white people to feel a sense of genuine "solidarity" with the struggle of the black community against racism.
I said nothing at all about race and your assumption was fatuous and without any evidenced foundation. I was referring to people, of any race, jumping on to a US focused matter to share in the moment of a sequence of events which does not involve them in the slightest - since whilst we have many actual problems in this country for instance, and these have indeed been raised, the labelling of the action and the reason for them in the first place is indeed USA centred. I do not deride in any way concerns in the UK or other places at issues within their own borders, which are being raised by protestors, but the timing, and marketing, of these protests is quite blatantly the result of following a trend. Solidarity with the issues is one thing, solidarity with a branded protest about an event in the USA is not quite the same thing, though there will be overlap.
I also opened my remarks with 'I'm sure it is' in response to the comment about people protesting a bad thing, to make abundantly clear that I do not think protests are without merit, in fact if people have concerns I welcome protests (though in the current public health situation I think simultaneously seeking to avoid any responsibility should lead to ill effect is infantilising). What I do think is people can have complex and multiple motivations, and the timing of these protests outside the USA and tying it into a trending moment in the USA is, for some (I never said all) about signalling virtue (and to be clear once again, I don't regard virtue signalling as a left or right wing thing, nor inherently wrong).
People protesting in this country are I think mostly protesting about racial injustice in this country, of which there is plenty to protest about and none of us are as distant from it as some might like to think. Personally I am not protesting because of the Covid issue so on that we are in agreement. But if you think this is about being trendy or "virtue signalling" (Christ what a vacuous phrase) I think you're wrong.
Why do you think the horse bolted? Was it just horsey high spirits? Did he spot some lovely fresh hay on Northumberland Avenue?
Who brings a horse to a protest?
Did you watch it live and how it developed
No. Riot porn isn't my thing. I tend to instinctively side with the people without the horses in these situations, I think they stir up folk memories of my Saxon peasant ancestors being hacked to pieces by their Norman overlords.
Well that just shows how foolish it is to have an opinion based on something you have not watched and just use your political prejeudice
My only opinion was that mounted police are not a good means of crowd control, they tend to inflame the situation and increase the risk of someone getting hurt. I don't think that's particularly prejudiced, certainly not by the standards of some of the commentary here.
Well tonight they calmed the situation to much praise from the journalists present
Also watching it in real time it turned a dangerous situation into a controlled one which prevented much more serious consequences
It also highlights the big difference between UK and US policing. We have thugs throw stuff and the police manage to control the situation with kettling / horses. In the US they immediately reach for the bean bag rounds, plastic bullets, tear gas, armoured cars.
Hey, if you've gone to the trouble of getting an MRAP you'd be a fool not to use it as much as you can, right?
The big problem in US is obviously not only do the police have weapons, but the public do, especially criminals, so the police go into situations expecting it. That's how you get 1000 people killed per year by the police, with only 10s being unarmed.
If I were the Conservatives, I’d be more worried about the rise in Sir Keir’s ratings than the fall in Boris Johnson’s. It’s not as though he’s done much, so it looks like a reflection of growing antipathy to the Conservatives, and an increased warmth to the Labour leader as an instinctive reaction.
Keir Starmer appears anodyne, hasn't had to make any policy decisions (so hasn't had to upset anyone) and is not Jeremy Corbyn. This is all we need to explain why he is doing well. He looks reasonable and doesn't frighten anybody.
If he builds a substantial lead as best PM *and* manages to hold onto it until he's within sight of the next General Election, then the Conservatives might start to worry. Right now the polls give us something new to talk about, but they're supremely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
If I were the Conservatives, I’d be more worried about the rise in Sir Keir’s ratings than the fall in Boris Johnson’s. It’s not as though he’s done much, so it looks like a reflection of growing antipathy to the Conservatives, and an increased warmth to the Labour leader as an instinctive reaction.
If I were the Conservatives, I’d be more worried about the rise in Sir Keir’s ratings than the fall in Boris Johnson’s. It’s not as though he’s done much, so it looks like a reflection of growing antipathy to the Conservatives, and an increased warmth to the Labour leader as an instinctive reaction.
Keir Starmer appears anodyne, hasn't had to make any policy decisions (so hasn't had to upset anyone) and is not Jeremy Corbyn. This is all we need to explain why he is doing well. He looks reasonable and doesn't frighten anybody.
If he builds a substantial lead as best PM *and* manages to hold onto it until he's within sight of the next General Election, then the Conservatives might start to worry. Right now the polls give us something new to talk about, but they're supremely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
If I were the Conservatives, I’d be more worried about the rise in Sir Keir’s ratings than the fall in Boris Johnson’s. It’s not as though he’s done much, so it looks like a reflection of growing antipathy to the Conservatives, and an increased warmth to the Labour leader as an instinctive reaction.
Justin Trudeau decided to attend the protests..but seriously, like seriously. It was a good job it was Canada where they are normally way too nice, compared to the US.
Why do you think the horse bolted? Was it just horsey high spirits? Did he spot some lovely fresh hay on Northumberland Avenue?
Amazing incompetence to deploy a horse and/or rider for riot control not able to cope with a riot.
I used to ride quite a lot. Even the best trained horse will freak out if it is bombarded with rocks, bottles, fireworks and BICYCLES
But go ahead. Knock yourself out, just like the policeman on the horse
Pretty certain you haven't ridden a police trained horse all that frequently.
I’ve ridden a fine Irish mare for six miles at full speed down the roads of Connemara. I’ve ridden a horse all day around the bridleways of Cornwall going from pub to pub until I got so drunk I tried to ride down a narrow holloway and had to go to hospital from all the tree branches I hit. I’ve ridden a mustang down monument valley arizona literally whooping with glee as we lit out for the horizon
The horses were all fine
I say this not because it is relevant, but just because I like to boast
"But I've never met a nice South African!"
All races in South Africa are charming and hospitable, just not to each other, but I am sure you reference Spitting Image:
Left wing/Remain haters of Boris and Cummings had a gilt edged opportunity to claim the higher ground here, by criticising the BLM breaking of lockdown with the same vigour they did Big Bad Dom.
They just couldn't bring themselves to do it. It's all about scoring points & taking sides.
I’m not sure why you feel the need to conflate left-wing and remain in this way.
But anyway I think these demos are bloody stupid. The violence is unnecessary. The hysteria ridiculous.
The anger and upset at the awful death of one man in US is no doubt sincerely felt by some but there is a lot of “look at me” protesting going on which adds nothing and, arguably, detracts from the very real problems encountered by black people in the US and elsewhere.
And, yes, given this blasted virus is not yet beaten, it is absurd to breach the lockdown in such a way.
Because it's left wingers and Remainers who hate Boris and Dom!
Why do you think the horse bolted? Was it just horsey high spirits? Did he spot some lovely fresh hay on Northumberland Avenue?
Amazing incompetence to deploy a horse and/or rider for riot control not able to cope with a riot.
I used to ride quite a lot. Even the best trained horse will freak out if it is bombarded with rocks, bottles, fireworks and BICYCLES
But go ahead. Knock yourself out, just like the policeman on the horse
Pretty certain you haven't ridden a police trained horse all that frequently.
I’ve ridden a fine Irish mare for six miles at full speed down the roads of Connemara. I’ve ridden a horse all day around the bridleways of Cornwall going from pub to pub until I got so drunk I tried to ride down a narrow holloway and had to go to hospital from all the tree branches I hit. I’ve ridden a mustang down monument valley arizona literally whooping with glee as we lit out for the horizon
The horses were all fine
I say this not because it is relevant, but just because I like to boast
"But I've never met a nice South African!"
All races in South Africa are charming and hospitable, just not to each other, but I am sure you reference Spitting Image:
Why do you think the horse bolted? Was it just horsey high spirits? Did he spot some lovely fresh hay on Northumberland Avenue?
Usually police horses are draft crosses for quiet temperament and then are trained and selected to be bomb proof. But they are not machines. Could be nothing special spooked the horse, or could be someone or something hurt it.
Somebody hit it with a bike, while also fireworks where being set off. There is footage.
Unless the horse changed colour after being hit by the bike or there is further footage I haven't seen then no they didn't.
No, that is a different clip of a different horse. The Mail have photos, two bikes have been thrown at the horse and it bolts.
I've seen the picture of the horse trampling on a bike, but no report of those bikes being thrown at that horse.
The mail have taken a couple of photos of the bike being rolled at the dark coloured horse and labelled them 1 and 2 and then used a photo of the bay horse trampling a bike and labelled it 3 as if the bike from 1 and 2 hit it, which the video shows it did not.
If I were the Conservatives, I’d be more worried about the rise in Sir Keir’s ratings than the fall in Boris Johnson’s. It’s not as though he’s done much, so it looks like a reflection of growing antipathy to the Conservatives, and an increased warmth to the Labour leader as an instinctive reaction.
Keir Starmer appears anodyne, hasn't had to make any policy decisions (so hasn't had to upset anyone) and is not Jeremy Corbyn. This is all we need to explain why he is doing well. He looks reasonable and doesn't frighten anybody.
If he builds a substantial lead as best PM *and* manages to hold onto it until he's within sight of the next General Election, then the Conservatives might start to worry. Right now the polls give us something new to talk about, but they're supremely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
If I were the Conservatives, I’d be more worried about the rise in Sir Keir’s ratings than the fall in Boris Johnson’s. It’s not as though he’s done much, so it looks like a reflection of growing antipathy to the Conservatives, and an increased warmth to the Labour leader as an instinctive reaction.
This mass anguish and knee bending and ritualised white self loathing is quite fascinating.
It is religious in tone. It is the pilgrimage of grace. It is Aztec nobles piercing their penises with cactus thorns to male the sun rise. It is Shiites whipping themselves to bloody frenzy during the mourning of Muharram
Above all, it is the flagellants who famously paraded themselves around Europe.... during the Black Death
Or maybe it's just people protesting against a bad thing?
I'm sure it is, but it is also about being seen to protest in a particular way by some, including many very distant from the events who have nothing to do with the issues at hand, and seeking such solidarity seems more about self satisfaction.
The idea that white people shouldn't care about racism towards black people seems a bit racist.
Good thing that's not what I meant, nor what I said, then. The idea that you think it was says something however. No doubt it is easier to believe that was what it meant.
What did you mean then? You seemed to be saying that people "distant from the events who have nothing to do with the issues at hand", by which I assumed you meant white people, could only be protesting out of a desire for "self satisfaction", as if there were no legitimate reason for white people to feel a sense of genuine "solidarity" with the struggle of the black community against racism.
I said nothing at all about race and your assumption was fatuous and without any evidenced foundation. I was referring to people, of any race, jumping on to a US focused matter to share in the moment of a sequence of events which does not involve them in the slightest - since whilst we have many actual problems in this country for instance, and these have indeed been raised, the labelling of the action and the reason for them in the first place is indeed USA centred. I do not deride in any way concerns in the UK or other places at issues within their own borders, which are being raised by protestors, but the timing, and marketing, of these protests is quite blatantly the result of following a trend. Solidarity with the issues is one thing, solidarity with a branded protest about an event in the USA is not quite the same thing, though there will be overlap.
I also opened my remarks with 'I'm sure it is' in response to the comment about people protesting a bad thing, to make abundantly clear that I do not think protests are without merit, in fact if people have concerns I welcome protests (though in the current public health situation I think simultaneously seeking to avoid any responsibility should lead to ill effect is infantilising). What I do think is people can have complex and multiple motivations, and the timing of these protests outside the USA and tying it into a trending moment in the USA is, for some (I never said all) about signalling virtue (and to be clear once again, I don't regard virtue signalling as a left or right wing thing, nor inherently wrong).
People protesting in this country are I think mostly protesting about racial injustice in this country, of which there is plenty to protest about and none of us are as distant from it as some might like to think. Personally I am not protesting because of the Covid issue so on that we are in agreement. But if you think this is about being trendy or "virtue signalling" (Christ what a vacuous phrase) I think you're wrong.
You've once again missed my point - and since it is twice now and each time in order to either state directly I was a racist (the unfounded suggestion I assumed white people could not feel solidarity with black people) or to imply I was belittling genuine concerns, I can only assume you've done so intentionally - since I deliberately acknowledged concerns within this country were being raised, nor did I even come close to saying it was purely about being trendy or signalling virtue (a phrase which I do not use to dismiss the virtue being signalled, I believe it to be a non-partisan action of those on left and right when expressing their worthiness), in fact I made quite clear there are multiple motivations and many concerns are valid.
None of that changes that the timing and marketing of these protests follows and echoes those of the USA and, I contend, for some (and once again, which you have also ignored, I did not say all) the timing, and nature, of events as we have seen is about wanting to be seen as part of a wider cultural moment even if not really applicable to their own nation.
That doesn't diminish the worthiness of actual concerns raised, nor does someone signalling their virtue meant that the virtue does not exist (though that will lie in the eye of the beholder). But nor do I think the view that there are attempts to manufacture a global brand to an event and circumstance specific to one country without sufficient recognition of the very different circumstances in other nations which make such a global approach unhelpful, in some way indicates that there are not problems in this country nor that people should not raise those concerns.
You've taken a view I hold about over emphasis of shared characteristics of different societies to create a sense of global solidarity which I feel is overdone, and interpreted that as dismissal of concern of racial struggles and outright racism.
I accept perhaps the point was not as plainly put as might be liked, nor is it one people will necessarily agree with, but how you've taken it to the extremes you have baffles me.
Left wing/Remain haters of Boris and Cummings had a gilt edged opportunity to claim the higher ground here, by criticising the BLM breaking of lockdown with the same vigour they did Big Bad Dom.
They just couldn't bring themselves to do it. It's all about scoring points & taking sides.
I’m not sure why you feel the need to conflate left-wing and remain in this way.
But anyway I think these demos are bloody stupid. The violence is unnecessary. The hysteria ridiculous.
The anger and upset at the awful death of one man in US is no doubt sincerely felt by some but there is a lot of “look at me” protesting going on which adds nothing and, arguably, detracts from the very real problems encountered by black people in the US and elsewhere.
And, yes, given this blasted virus is not yet beaten, it is absurd to breach the lockdown in such a way.
Because it's left wingers and Remainers who hate Boris and Dom!
Boris is the very best the Conservative Party have. Sad isn't it...
Left wing/Remain haters of Boris and Cummings had a gilt edged opportunity to claim the higher ground here, by criticising the BLM breaking of lockdown with the same vigour they did Big Bad Dom.
They just couldn't bring themselves to do it. It's all about scoring points & taking sides.
I’m not sure why you feel the need to conflate left-wing and remain in this way.
But anyway I think these demos are bloody stupid. The violence is unnecessary. The hysteria ridiculous.
The anger and upset at the awful death of one man in US is no doubt sincerely felt by some but there is a lot of “look at me” protesting going on which adds nothing and, arguably, detracts from the very real problems encountered by black people in the US and elsewhere.
And, yes, given this blasted virus is not yet beaten, it is absurd to breach the lockdown in such a way.
Because it's left wingers and Remainers who hate Boris and Dom!
Boris is the very best the Conservative Party have. Sad isn't it...
Best the Conservative Party have at winning elections, yep....
Why do you think the horse bolted? Was it just horsey high spirits? Did he spot some lovely fresh hay on Northumberland Avenue?
Who brings a horse to a protest?
Did you watch it live and how it developed
No. Riot porn isn't my thing. I tend to instinctively side with the people without the horses in these situations, I think they stir up folk memories of my Saxon peasant ancestors being hacked to pieces by their Norman overlords.
Well that just shows how foolish it is to have an opinion based on something you have not watched and just use your political prejeudice
You think maybe the police didn't mean to bring their horses?
If I were the Conservatives, I’d be more worried about the rise in Sir Keir’s ratings than the fall in Boris Johnson’s. It’s not as though he’s done much, so it looks like a reflection of growing antipathy to the Conservatives, and an increased warmth to the Labour leader as an instinctive reaction.
Keir Starmer appears anodyne, hasn't had to make any policy decisions (so hasn't had to upset anyone) and is not Jeremy Corbyn. This is all we need to explain why he is doing well. He looks reasonable and doesn't frighten anybody.
If he builds a substantial lead as best PM *and* manages to hold onto it until he's within sight of the next General Election, then the Conservatives might start to worry. Right now the polls give us something new to talk about, but they're supremely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
If I were the Conservatives, I’d be more worried about the rise in Sir Keir’s ratings than the fall in Boris Johnson’s. It’s not as though he’s done much, so it looks like a reflection of growing antipathy to the Conservatives, and an increased warmth to the Labour leader as an instinctive reaction.
He's boring, he cannot win
Can't you people read?
Just like Mr Attlee!
Ah yes, the 1940s
Do you expect Starmer to do better or worse than Corbyn against Boris? If so, by how much?
50 seat gains (like tonight's polls) would do, wouldn't it?
Left wing/Remain haters of Boris and Cummings had a gilt edged opportunity to claim the higher ground here, by criticising the BLM breaking of lockdown with the same vigour they did Big Bad Dom.
They just couldn't bring themselves to do it. It's all about scoring points & taking sides.
I’m not sure why you feel the need to conflate left-wing and remain in this way.
But anyway I think these demos are bloody stupid. The violence is unnecessary. The hysteria ridiculous.
The anger and upset at the awful death of one man in US is no doubt sincerely felt by some but there is a lot of “look at me” protesting going on which adds nothing and, arguably, detracts from the very real problems encountered by black people in the US and elsewhere.
And, yes, given this blasted virus is not yet beaten, it is absurd to breach the lockdown in such a way.
Because it's left wingers and Remainers who hate Boris and Dom!
@Richard_Tyndall who likes Cummings wrote a header fiercely critical of him. So no you made an unjustified assumption.
Comments
This was ultimately a capitalist commercial decision. Those comments are anathema to multicultural teams and supporters.
She Ratnered her husband.
I once while out had to call 999 as I could see a gang of about 30 youths causing trouble. Within a couple of minutes two female Police Officers on horses who'd been nearby arrived and calmed the situation. One mouthy git thought he could run away briefly - one horse and officer calmly went past him and made it clear there was no outrunning a horse LOL.
It would have taken many more, or more aggressive, officers on foot to do what just two mounted officers could do. Same in crowd control situations too.
*awaits banhammer*
Slightly less than four years, assuming that it's neither called early nor that the FTPA is repealed or amended to permit extension. The current date of the next GE is 2nd May 2024.
But the general point is entirely reasonable.
https://youtu.be/qbgr1VoRn_s
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2020/06/scot-goes-pop-panelbase-poll-sensation.html?m=1
Also 52% again for YES
No no no
It takes a lot of training to convince a horse to put itself in danger, such as a police or cavalry horse, or even to run in the Grand National.
The USA proves that brutal policing does not work and there are plenty of other examples world-wide too
Also watching it in real time it turned a dangerous situation into a controlled one which prevented much more serious consequences
In England possibly 20% of coronavirus is caught in hospital. PPE is for patient safety, not just staff.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/17/hospital-patients-england-coronavirus-covid-19
If he builds a substantial lead as best PM *and* manages to hold onto it until he's within sight of the next General Election, then the Conservatives might start to worry. Right now the polls give us something new to talk about, but they're supremely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
Stay alert>don't riot>save lives
This is the latest dud bullet that the Scottish press have rustled up, good to know that it's even more rubbish than I first suspected.
https://twitter.com/CrimeLdn/status/1269380388872429568?s=19
I also opened my remarks with 'I'm sure it is' in response to the comment about people protesting a bad thing, to make abundantly clear that I do not think protests are without merit, in fact if people have concerns I welcome protests (though in the current public health situation I think simultaneously seeking to avoid any responsibility should lead to ill effect is infantilising). What I do think is people can have complex and multiple motivations, and the timing of these protests outside the USA and tying it into a trending moment in the USA is, for some (I never said all) about signalling virtue (and to be clear once again, I don't regard virtue signalling as a left or right wing thing, nor inherently wrong).
Voters beware.
What affluent people really don't want is any discussion of class inequalities because that does pose a threat to them.
Can't you people read?
Well we now have the answer.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1269385643790159872/photo/1
https://twitter.com/meyer_lucas/status/1269319926256459778?s=19
https://youtu.be/2NTcndxuwOA
Looks like a 'two article' decision.
The mail have taken a couple of photos of the bike being rolled at the dark coloured horse and labelled them 1 and 2 and then used a photo of the bay horse trampling a bike and labelled it 3 as if the bike from 1 and 2 hit it, which the video shows it did not.
The truly amazing thing about Butler is that Labour chose her again after they had the opportunity to get rid of her.
None of that changes that the timing and marketing of these protests follows and echoes those of the USA and, I contend, for some (and once again, which you have also ignored, I did not say all) the timing, and nature, of events as we have seen is about wanting to be seen as part of a wider cultural moment even if not really applicable to their own nation.
That doesn't diminish the worthiness of actual concerns raised, nor does someone signalling their virtue meant that the virtue does not exist (though that will lie in the eye of the beholder). But nor do I think the view that there are attempts to manufacture a global brand to an event and circumstance specific to one country without sufficient recognition of the very different circumstances in other nations which make such a global approach unhelpful, in some way indicates that there are not problems in this country nor that people should not raise those concerns.
You've taken a view I hold about over emphasis of shared characteristics of different societies to create a sense of global solidarity which I feel is overdone, and interpreted that as dismissal of concern of racial struggles and outright racism.
I accept perhaps the point was not as plainly put as might be liked, nor is it one people will necessarily agree with, but how you've taken it to the extremes you have baffles me.
Its almost a real life Apollo Creed vs Rocky Balboa.
50 seat gains (like tonight's polls) would do, wouldn't it?