Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Tbh, SAGE have had a terrible crisis. Their advice has been wrong basically at every point.
What do you expect from an organisation that was told what to say by a fifth rate arrogant failed think tank director?
Tbf to Dom he forced their hand on lockdown and tried to do the same for quarantine in January. SAGE were against both and had to be forced into agreeing with the former and still think they were right about the latter. They are clearly a bunch of arrogant dickheads.
The disregard of testing was another thing the 'experts' are to blame for.
A report presented to the government’s Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) on 12 February, when the UK was still actively tracing contacts of those infected with Covid-19, recommended a 10-fold increase in Public Health England’s test-and-trace capacity in order to extend the number of cases that could be managed.
“Scaling this response up, using for example a call-centre type system to support the local PHE teams, should be possible and feasible,” the experts from Public Health England and the University of Cambridge recommended.
However, this suggestion does not appear to have been pursued and contact tracing was abandoned in March.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
Ultimately the cost of staying in the EU was eventually becoming part of the USE. The path for the UK is to be a nuclear version of Canada or Australia. The idea that we could still be one of the two world powers was never going to hold and the idea that we could stamp our authority within the EU was also an idea that was never going to hold.
Brexit was an inevitability given the alternative. Already we're seeing a renewed push for "more Europe" from the commission. If we'd voted to remain it would have been impossible to oppose the Corona bailout and we'd have been on the hook for hundreds of billions as the second largest economy and holding the ability to print our own money.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
As a matter of interest - what do you suggest we do when the matter of the Austrian State Treaty comes up? :-)
Why should it come up? Its an historical anachronism. Trump is planning to remove the last US troop from Germany completing the withdrawal of the US from mainline Europe. We are in the fortunate position of being a quiet backwater of less and less significance in world affairs. We should take advantage.
On that basis you should support the Scottish independence and nuclear disarmament.
I do not support Scottish Independence and never will. Nuclear disarmament is something I am more open about, especially if the money was redirected to improving our conventional capability. The need for a strategic nuclear capability (as opposed to tactical capability) really ended in 1989.
As long as Russia has nuclear weapons so should we (Sir Humphrey of course famously said the same about France)
I'm with David. They're a useless geegaw. Can't send them in against something like Coronavirus can we (not that we can of course send conventional forces in either)?
On topic, I forgot to mention that Shadsy is offering 50/1 that Trump will be serving a third term on 1 Feb 2025.
I think that's about right.
Those are frighteningly low odds for such an outcome.
Perhaps there is a point to the 2nd Amendment after all. I never thought I would type those words...
Oh, I can see the point in the second Amendment. It's true that it no longer functions in the way intended. Nobody imagines the State will ever need the populace to form an armed militia to beat off a foreign invasion. But citizens do widely perceive the need for arms to protect themselves against other citizens, the State having given up on this in many respects.
I think the right to bear arms was not really to defend against criminals, or even Native Americans, but to be able to resist government tyranny (as seen in the American Revolution). Largely lifted from our own Bill of Rights of 1689, too.
It is ironic then that the gun nuts seem to currently be supporting government tyranny.
I'd always thought it was drafted mainly with incursions by the British and French in mind, but whatever its intent, it's an anachronism now.
Especially since then guns fired one round every 30 seconds instead of 30 rounds in 1 second.
If I were feeling pedantic I would point out it was every 20 seconds.
Did that not require a militia well drilled, as well as well regulated ?
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
No. Just a bit weird is a flattering description. Imbecilic is a more fitting one.
The British protests essentially say that dicriumination and indifference towards black people is endemic in the UK as well, and the US events are simply the latest example of a general phenomenon. The examples that a couple of us have given here of black drivers being routinely stopped by police and asked to show proof that they have a right to drive their cars are a small illustration. I could give more, but suspect you would either not believe me or dismiss them as anecdotal.
I think the demos are a stretch, because the position in the US is xlearly worse, but they're not imbecilic, and I know two people who have said that it's made them have a think about their own attitudes and how they might improve them.
Indifference toward all shades of melanin should be welcomed, not condemned. The general tenor of these protests is to foster a sense of injustice and grievance that is corrosive to the individual in which they are fostered, and has a harmfully divisive effect on society in general. It is a road to nowhere. The risibly imported 'trigger' to the protests is not the only objection.
No, being colour blind is not enough, though clearly better than overt bigotry. Being colour blind means not being willing to accept the history and culture of black people, nor the part of British culture in generating that history.
No, it is enough - not just enough, essential. If somebody remains beholden to an inherited sense of loss, sorrow, and anger, it will poison their life. Telling black people that they've started life with a handicap is simply an appalling and counterproductive thing to do.
Denying or ignoring our role in past oppression of BAME communities is in itself racist.
Being Anti-racist is a more active position than being colour blind. It means challenging racism, both direct and indirect when we encounter it, and that includes a certain amount of uncomfortable self reflection on our own attitudes.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
No. Just a bit weird is a flattering description. Imbecilic is a more fitting one.
The British protests essentially say that dicriumination and indifference towards black people is endemic in the UK as well, and the US events are simply the latest example of a general phenomenon. The examples that a couple of us have given here of black drivers being routinely stopped by police and asked to show proof that they have a right to drive their cars are a small illustration. I could give more, but suspect you would either not believe me or dismiss them as anecdotal.
I think the demos are a stretch, because the position in the US is xlearly worse, but they're not imbecilic, and I know two people who have said that it's made them have a think about their own attitudes and how they might improve them.
Indifference toward all shades of melanin should be welcomed, not condemned. The general tenor of these protests is to foster a sense of injustice and grievance that is corrosive to the individual in which they are fostered, and has a harmfully divisive effect on society in general. It is a road to nowhere. The risibly imported 'trigger' to the protests is not the only objection.
No, being colour blind is not enough, though clearly better than overt bigotry. Being colour blind means not being willing to accept the history and culture of black people, nor the part of British culture in generating that history.
No, it is enough - not just enough, essential. If somebody remains beholden to an inherited sense of loss, sorrow, and anger, it will poison their life. Telling black people that they've started life with a handicap is simply an appalling and counterproductive thing to do.
And to think I never believed whitesplaining a thing...
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
Ultimately the cost of staying in the EU was eventually becoming part of the USE. The path for the UK is to be a nuclear version of Canada or Australia. The idea that we could still be one of the two world powers was never going to hold and the idea that we could stamp our authority within the EU was also an idea that was never going to hold.
Brexit was an inevitability given the alternative. Already we're seeing a renewed push for "more Europe" from the commission. If we'd voted to remain it would have been impossible to oppose the Corona bailout and we'd have been on the hook for hundreds of billions as the second largest economy and holding the ability to print our own money.
The option of fully embracing European integration was and remains a viable alternative. In the long run there is no alternative.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
As with several others I agree in finding it weird. I'm sorry, but whilst there are issues in this country to address, that these protests take up the title of the USA protests, and are in response to them, makes it look more like a stunt than anything else to me. It's flavour of the month in the US, so people want to be cool here.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
Ultimately the cost of staying in the EU was eventually becoming part of the USE. The path for the UK is to be a nuclear version of Canada or Australia. The idea that we could still be one of the two world powers was never going to hold and the idea that we could stamp our authority within the EU was also an idea that was never going to hold.
Brexit was an inevitability given the alternative. Already we're seeing a renewed push for "more Europe" from the commission. If we'd voted to remain it would have been impossible to oppose the Corona bailout and we'd have been on the hook for hundreds of billions as the second largest economy and holding the ability to print our own money.
The option of fully embracing European integration was and remains a viable alternative. In the long run there is no alternative.
There is absolutely an alternative, not being in it. Even among remainers your position is niche and presenting it as inevitable is laughable.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
As a matter of interest - what do you suggest we do when the matter of the Austrian State Treaty comes up? :-)
Why should it come up? Its an historical anachronism. Trump is planning to remove the last US troop from Germany completing the withdrawal of the US from mainline Europe. We are in the fortunate position of being a quiet backwater of less and less significance in world affairs. We should take advantage.
It legally binds the signatories (among other things) to never allow any kind of union between Austria and Germany. Revoking it would have... interesting effects...
Is there any threat of a new Anschluss? I think that there would be some resistance to that given the already dominant position Germany has in the EU but ultimately its not our problem.
The joke is that the EU is quite possibly a breach of the treaty already.
How long before Russia brings this up for mischief making. purposes?
Revoking it (and the others treaties that specify similar) would restart the occupation of German and Austria!
If Russia really wanted to revive German expansionism, they should offer to give Kaliningrad back.
What, Boris has lost David Gauke? I didn't know things were that serious
No critique of the substance?
Who was it said if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left.”
Putting up implacable enemies of any politician to attack them as if they were neutral, unbiased commentators is a nonsense that unfortunately passes for serious political critique these days.
It would be like having me write an op-ed that began 'I was genuinely excited and hopeful when Sir Keir Starmer took over the Labour Party, but I must now say with regret and sadness that the boring pillock has squandered his potential, he's a useless hypocrite, he thinks people care about his stupid letters, and he couldn't win a stuffed toy at a fairground, let alone a general election...
Out of interest, who do you think is qualified to give a neutral and unbiased opinion of Boris and his government?
I'm pretty objective. Often wish I wasn't but I am.
My opinion of this shitshow?
Unrepeatable.
Without commenting on if you are objective, I do think in general people are pretty bad at assessing their own objectivity.
I agree. You have to be freakishly objective in order to look at yourself objectively.
Probably not an exercise worth devoting too much effort to - attempt to be reasonable and see if people take you as relatively objective I suppose.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
Ultimately the cost of staying in the EU was eventually becoming part of the USE. The path for the UK is to be a nuclear version of Canada or Australia. The idea that we could still be one of the two world powers was never going to hold and the idea that we could stamp our authority within the EU was also an idea that was never going to hold.
Brexit was an inevitability given the alternative. Already we're seeing a renewed push for "more Europe" from the commission. If we'd voted to remain it would have been impossible to oppose the Corona bailout and we'd have been on the hook for hundreds of billions as the second largest economy and holding the ability to print our own money.
The option of fully embracing European integration was and remains a viable alternative. In the long run there is no alternative.
There is absolutely an alternative, not being in it.
It's not sustainable. The UK isn't a Canada or an Australia, or even a Switzerland.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
Ultimately the cost of staying in the EU was eventually becoming part of the USE. The path for the UK is to be a nuclear version of Canada or Australia. The idea that we could still be one of the two world powers was never going to hold and the idea that we could stamp our authority within the EU was also an idea that was never going to hold.
Brexit was an inevitability given the alternative. Already we're seeing a renewed push for "more Europe" from the commission. If we'd voted to remain it would have been impossible to oppose the Corona bailout and we'd have been on the hook for hundreds of billions as the second largest economy and holding the ability to print our own money.
The option of fully embracing European integration was and remains a viable alternative. In the long run there is no alternative.
There is absolutely an alternative, not being in it.
It's not sustainable. The UK isn't a Canada or an Australia, or even a Switzerland.
I think it already is, so are all of the European countries. A bunch of second and third rank countries coming together is still just a bunch of second and third rank countries. It does nothing to project more than the sum of the total.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
As a matter of interest - what do you suggest we do when the matter of the Austrian State Treaty comes up? :-)
Why should it come up? Its an historical anachronism. Trump is planning to remove the last US troop from Germany completing the withdrawal of the US from mainline Europe. We are in the fortunate position of being a quiet backwater of less and less significance in world affairs. We should take advantage.
On that basis you should support the Scottish independence and nuclear disarmament.
I do not support Scottish Independence and never will. Nuclear disarmament is something I am more open about, especially if the money was redirected to improving our conventional capability. The need for a strategic nuclear capability (as opposed to tactical capability) really ended in 1989.
As long as Russia has nuclear weapons so should we (Sir Humphrey of course famously said the same about France)
I'm with David. They're a useless geegaw. Can't send them in against something like Coronavirus can we (not that we can of course send conventional forces in either)?
Conventional forces can be sent in to help, eg with testing, faciity building etc, a Trident II D-5 not so much. If we wanted to really get into 1000 sledgehammers to crack a nut mode, they could take out virus hot spots I guess.
What, Boris has lost David Gauke? I didn't know things were that serious
No critique of the substance?
Who was it said if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left.”
Putting up implacable enemies of any politician to attack them as if they were neutral, unbiased commentators is a nonsense that unfortunately passes for serious political critique these days.
It would be like having me write an op-ed that began 'I was genuinely excited and hopeful when Sir Keir Starmer took over the Labour Party, but I must now say with regret and sadness that the boring pillock has squandered his potential, he's a useless hypocrite, he thinks people care about his stupid letters, and he couldn't win a stuffed toy at a fairground, let alone a general election...
Out of interest, who do you think is qualified to give a neutral and unbiased opinion of Boris and his government?
I'm pretty objective. Often wish I wasn't but I am.
My opinion of this shitshow?
Unrepeatable.
Without commenting on if you are objective, I do think in general people are pretty bad at assessing their own objectivity.
I agree. You have to be freakishly objective in order to look at yourself objectively.
Probably not an exercise worth devoting too much effort to - attempt to be reasonable and see if people take you as relatively objective I suppose.
Yes - bit of a rabbit hole otherwise.
It's like the statement "I'm not as clever as I think I am."
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
Though such things have been a feature of the USA for over a century.
Indeed but whilst politics was dominated by a largely east coast, liberal consensus who set policy and objectives this was something we could ignore. The destruction of that consensus that @David_Herdson has so clearly described by Trump has made these differences stark and troubling. I find people claiming that we have shared values with the US these days offensive. We really don't.
It must be remembered that it is extremists, from all sides, who receive the most publicity.
Aspects such as electoral choice of government, rule of law, freedom of speech and free market economies are still shared values.
Even if such things are threatened by the extremists of all sides.
And its the extreme views of those extremists too. (Noone cares what the mainstream views they may also hold are)
Boris drops 20 points in ConHome survey to fourth behind Sunak, Gove, and Raab
Time for him to consider standing down and spending time with Carrie and his young son ?
Given the Tories still have a comfortable poll lead of course not and you omitted to mention Boris still has a +63% rating with ConHome readers
You omitted to mention:
It’s a steep slide for the Prime Minister, who sees his net positive ranking slide from +83 to +63 in one month and loses his place on the podium. This beats his previous low score as Prime Minister, from September, by six points.
Johnson's one asset is he's seen as an election winner - he has no great group of friends in the HoC, just colleagues seizing the main chance for personal advancement. There is no "Johnsonism" to form a coherent rallying point. Once his MPs judge he's gone from an asset to a liability he'll be gone in a trice.
I was interested to see that Mr Carlaw is bottom of the class - apparently not just because of DKs. "Amongst the minority of respondents who have a view on the Scottish leader, his net approval has halved from +23 to +11. His colleagues are reportedly angry at his handling of the Cummings row."
Carlaw is fumbling about in the dark. Nobody in Westminster or Whitehall knows who he is.
He is in dire straits if he is overtaken by nonentity Leonard next May.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
Ultimately the cost of staying in the EU was eventually becoming part of the USE. The path for the UK is to be a nuclear version of Canada or Australia. The idea that we could still be one of the two world powers was never going to hold and the idea that we could stamp our authority within the EU was also an idea that was never going to hold.
Brexit was an inevitability given the alternative. Already we're seeing a renewed push for "more Europe" from the commission. If we'd voted to remain it would have been impossible to oppose the Corona bailout and we'd have been on the hook for hundreds of billions as the second largest economy and holding the ability to print our own money.
The option of fully embracing European integration was and remains a viable alternative. In the long run there is no alternative.
There is absolutely an alternative, not being in it.
It's not sustainable. The UK isn't a Canada or an Australia, or even a Switzerland.
I think it already is, so are all of the European countries. A bunch of second and third rank countries coming together is still just a bunch of second and third rank countries. It does nothing to project more than the sum of the total.
That reminds me of the Flanders and Swan song, 'The English, the English, the English are best, so up with the English and down with the rest'.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
No. Just a bit weird is a flattering description. Imbecilic is a more fitting one.
The British protests essentially say that dicriumination and indifference towards black people is endemic in the UK as well, and the US events are simply the latest example of a general phenomenon. The examples that a couple of us have given here of black drivers being routinely stopped by police and asked to show proof that they have a right to drive their cars are a small illustration. I could give more, but suspect you would either not believe me or dismiss them as anecdotal.
I think the demos are a stretch, because the position in the US is xlearly worse, but they're not imbecilic, and I know two people who have said that it's made them have a think about their own attitudes and how they might improve them.
Indifference toward all shades of melanin should be welcomed, not condemned. The general tenor of these protests is to foster a sense of injustice and grievance that is corrosive to the individual in which they are fostered, and has a harmfully divisive effect on society in general. It is a road to nowhere. The risibly imported 'trigger' to the protests is not the only objection.
No, being colour blind is not enough, though clearly better than overt bigotry. Being colour blind means not being willing to accept the history and culture of black people, nor the part of British culture in generating that history.
No, it is enough - not just enough, essential. If somebody remains beholden to an inherited sense of loss, sorrow, and anger, it will poison their life. Telling black people that they've started life with a handicap is simply an appalling and counterproductive thing to do.
Denying or ignoring our role in past oppression of BAME communities is in itself racist.
Being Anti-racist is a more active position than being colour blind. It means challenging racism, both direct and indirect when we encounter it, and that includes a certain amount of uncomfortable self reflection on our own attitudes.
That may be your notion of racism, but it isn't one that I subscribe to, nor is it the dictionary definition. Racism, like Fascism, seems to be an encroaching term, as more and more behaviours and views that are not racist fall within the scope of its baleful usage. Precise definitions are important and it is dangerous to play with them to suit an agenda.
You're right that being an 'Anti' of anything implies a much more active approach than merely lacking prejudice. That's why it's so harmful. It involves searching for the thing you're 'anti' and searching inevitably leads to finding. You end up flagellating yourself and sitting in judgement over others. Like any mental blight, it will be a faithless friend, and the things you do to appease it will never be enough.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
Ultimately the cost of staying in the EU was eventually becoming part of the USE. The path for the UK is to be a nuclear version of Canada or Australia. The idea that we could still be one of the two world powers was never going to hold and the idea that we could stamp our authority within the EU was also an idea that was never going to hold.
Brexit was an inevitability given the alternative. Already we're seeing a renewed push for "more Europe" from the commission. If we'd voted to remain it would have been impossible to oppose the Corona bailout and we'd have been on the hook for hundreds of billions as the second largest economy and holding the ability to print our own money.
The option of fully embracing European integration was and remains a viable alternative. In the long run there is no alternative.
There is absolutely an alternative, not being in it.
It's not sustainable. The UK isn't a Canada or an Australia, or even a Switzerland.
I think it already is, so are all of the European countries. A bunch of second and third rank countries coming together is still just a bunch of second and third rank countries. It does nothing to project more than the sum of the total.
I meant it in a different sense. The UK is the relic of a faded empire. If we hadn't begun detaching ourselves from the EU after the introduction of the Euro, then it may have held together in its present form, as European borders would have held less and less significance to the lives of ordinary people. Brexit puts the integrity of the UK at stake in a big way.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Tbh, SAGE have had a terrible crisis. Their advice has been wrong basically at every point.
What do you expect from an organisation that was told what to say by a fifth rate arrogant failed think tank director?
Tbf to Dom he forced their hand on lockdown and tried to do the same for quarantine in January. SAGE were against both and had to be forced into agreeing with the former and still think they were right about the latter. They are clearly a bunch of arrogant dickheads.
The disregard of testing was another thing the 'experts' are to blame for.
A report presented to the government’s Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) on 12 February, when the UK was still actively tracing contacts of those infected with Covid-19, recommended a 10-fold increase in Public Health England’s test-and-trace capacity in order to extend the number of cases that could be managed.
“Scaling this response up, using for example a call-centre type system to support the local PHE teams, should be possible and feasible,” the experts from Public Health England and the University of Cambridge recommended.
However, this suggestion does not appear to have been pursued and contact tracing was abandoned in March.
The other notable points from that article are the warning back in February that discharging patients into care homes would be very dangerous, and the recognition back in March of the utility of face masks for the general public.
To blame SAGE for all the government’s mistakes does not seem a supportable position to take, however imperfect SAGE has been (very).
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
As a matter of interest - what do you suggest we do when the matter of the Austrian State Treaty comes up? :-)
Why should it come up? Its an historical anachronism. Trump is planning to remove the last US troop from Germany completing the withdrawal of the US from mainline Europe. We are in the fortunate position of being a quiet backwater of less and less significance in world affairs. We should take advantage.
On that basis you should support the Scottish independence and nuclear disarmament.
I do not support Scottish Independence and never will. Nuclear disarmament is something I am more open about, especially if the money was redirected to improving our conventional capability. The need for a strategic nuclear capability (as opposed to tactical capability) really ended in 1989.
As long as Russia has nuclear weapons so should we (Sir Humphrey of course famously said the same about France)
I'm with David. They're a useless geegaw. Can't send them in against something like Coronavirus can we (not that we can of course send conventional forces in either)?
If ourselves and the French gave up nuclear weapons and Putin decided to invade western Europe, there is little we do could to stop him
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
Bregret?
Nope. I want us to be friends and work closely with our European partners. I do not think that being a part of the EU is in our interests.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
As a matter of interest - what do you suggest we do when the matter of the Austrian State Treaty comes up? :-)
Why should it come up? Its an historical anachronism. Trump is planning to remove the last US troop from Germany completing the withdrawal of the US from mainline Europe. We are in the fortunate position of being a quiet backwater of less and less significance in world affairs. We should take advantage.
On that basis you should support the Scottish independence and nuclear disarmament.
I do not support Scottish Independence and never will. Nuclear disarmament is something I am more open about, especially if the money was redirected to improving our conventional capability. The need for a strategic nuclear capability (as opposed to tactical capability) really ended in 1989.
When you say "never will", do you mean that you would fight against it even after losing a referendum?
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
No. Just a bit weird is a flattering description. Imbecilic is a more fitting one.
The British protests essentially say that dicriumination and indifference towards black people is endemic in the UK as well, and the US events are simply the latest example of a general phenomenon. The examples that a couple of us have given here of black drivers being routinely stopped by police and asked to show proof that they have a right to drive their cars are a small illustration. I could give more, but suspect you would either not believe me or dismiss them as anecdotal.
I think the demos are a stretch, because the position in the US is xlearly worse, but they're not imbecilic, and I know two people who have said that it's made them have a think about their own attitudes and how they might improve them.
Indifference toward all shades of melanin should be welcomed, not condemned. The general tenor of these protests is to foster a sense of injustice and grievance that is corrosive to the individual in which they are fostered, and has a harmfully divisive effect on society in general. It is a road to nowhere. The risibly imported 'trigger' to the protests is not the only objection.
No, being colour blind is not enough, though clearly better than overt bigotry. Being colour blind means not being willing to accept the history and culture of black people, nor the part of British culture in generating that history.
No, it is enough - not just enough, essential. If somebody remains beholden to an inherited sense of loss, sorrow, and anger, it will poison their life. Telling black people that they've started life with a handicap is simply an appalling and counterproductive thing to do.
Denying or ignoring our role in past oppression of BAME communities is in itself racist.
Being Anti-racist is a more active position than being colour blind. It means challenging racism, both direct and indirect when we encounter it, and that includes a certain amount of uncomfortable self reflection on our own attitudes.
That's right. You can be both racist and an anti-racist. In fact, recognizing and fighting the racism in yourself arguably makes for a more authentic anti-racist than being utterly free of it, as in "colour blind". Which imo very few people of middle age and upwards are. Indeed if I hear the phrase "haven't got a racist bone in my body" from any such individual I tend to form the opposite conclusion.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
Ultimately the cost of staying in the EU was eventually becoming part of the USE. The path for the UK is to be a nuclear version of Canada or Australia. The idea that we could still be one of the two world powers was never going to hold and the idea that we could stamp our authority within the EU was also an idea that was never going to hold.
Brexit was an inevitability given the alternative. Already we're seeing a renewed push for "more Europe" from the commission. If we'd voted to remain it would have been impossible to oppose the Corona bailout and we'd have been on the hook for hundreds of billions as the second largest economy and holding the ability to print our own money.
The option of fully embracing European integration was and remains a viable alternative. In the long run there is no alternative.
There is absolutely an alternative, not being in it.
It's not sustainable. The UK isn't a Canada or an Australia, or even a Switzerland.
I think it already is, so are all of the European countries. A bunch of second and third rank countries coming together is still just a bunch of second and third rank countries. It does nothing to project more than the sum of the total.
I meant it in a different sense. The UK is the relic of a faded empire. If we hadn't begun detaching ourselves from the EU after the introduction of the Euro, then it may have held together in its present form, as European borders would have held less and less significance to the lives of ordinary people. Brexit puts the integrity of the UK at stake in a big way.
If we had gone into the Euro we would ultimately just have become a region of a federal EU superstate anyway, whether the UK held together or not.
The 1707 Union also came before the US War of Independence and before India, Australia, New Zealand and the African colonies were colonised by Britain
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Tbh, SAGE have had a terrible crisis. Their advice has been wrong basically at every point.
What do you expect from an organisation that was told what to say by a fifth rate arrogant failed think tank director?
Tbf to Dom he forced their hand on lockdown and tried to do the same for quarantine in January. SAGE were against both and had to be forced into agreeing with the former and still think they were right about the latter. They are clearly a bunch of arrogant dickheads.
The disregard of testing was another thing the 'experts' are to blame for.
A report presented to the government’s Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) on 12 February, when the UK was still actively tracing contacts of those infected with Covid-19, recommended a 10-fold increase in Public Health England’s test-and-trace capacity in order to extend the number of cases that could be managed.
“Scaling this response up, using for example a call-centre type system to support the local PHE teams, should be possible and feasible,” the experts from Public Health England and the University of Cambridge recommended.
However, this suggestion does not appear to have been pursued and contact tracing was abandoned in March.
One of the concerns expressed (and this might have been resolved) was that some chunks of experience were missing from SAGE. In particular, people from a boring public health background. So the UK put insufficient effort into boring but useful things like manual track and trace.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
No. Just a bit weird is a flattering description. Imbecilic is a more fitting one.
The British protests essentially say that dicriumination and indifference towards black people is endemic in the UK as well, and the US events are simply the latest example of a general phenomenon. The examples that a couple of us have given here of black drivers being routinely stopped by police and asked to show proof that they have a right to drive their cars are a small illustration. I could give more, but suspect you would either not believe me or dismiss them as anecdotal.
I think the demos are a stretch, because the position in the US is xlearly worse, but they're not imbecilic, and I know two people who have said that it's made them have a think about their own attitudes and how they might improve them.
Indifference toward all shades of melanin should be welcomed, not condemned. The general tenor of these protests is to foster a sense of injustice and grievance that is corrosive to the individual in which they are fostered, and has a harmfully divisive effect on society in general. It is a road to nowhere. The risibly imported 'trigger' to the protests is not the only objection.
No, being colour blind is not enough, though clearly better than overt bigotry. Being colour blind means not being willing to accept the history and culture of black people, nor the part of British culture in generating that history.
No, it is enough - not just enough, essential. If somebody remains beholden to an inherited sense of loss, sorrow, and anger, it will poison their life. Telling black people that they've started life with a handicap is simply an appalling and counterproductive thing to do.
Denying or ignoring our role in past oppression of BAME communities is in itself racist.
Being Anti-racist is a more active position than being colour blind. It means challenging racism, both direct and indirect when we encounter it, and that includes a certain amount of uncomfortable self reflection on our own attitudes.
That may be your notion of racism, but it isn't one that I subscribe to, nor is it the dictionary definition. Racism, like Fascism, seems to be an encroaching term, as more and more behaviours and views that are not racist fall within the scope of its baleful usage. Precise definitions are important and it is dangerous to play with them to suit an agenda.
You're right that being an 'Anti' of anything implies a much more active approach than merely lacking prejudice. That's why it's so harmful. It involves searching for the thing you're 'anti' and searching inevitably leads to finding. You end up flagellating yourself and sitting in judgement over others. Like any mental blight, it will be a faithless friend, and the things you do to appease it will never be enough.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
As a matter of interest - what do you suggest we do when the matter of the Austrian State Treaty comes up? :-)
Why should it come up? Its an historical anachronism. Trump is planning to remove the last US troop from Germany completing the withdrawal of the US from mainline Europe. We are in the fortunate position of being a quiet backwater of less and less significance in world affairs. We should take advantage.
On that basis you should support the Scottish independence and nuclear disarmament.
I do not support Scottish Independence and never will. Nuclear disarmament is something I am more open about, especially if the money was redirected to improving our conventional capability. The need for a strategic nuclear capability (as opposed to tactical capability) really ended in 1989.
As long as Russia has nuclear weapons so should we (Sir Humphrey of course famously said the same about France)
I am not saying we should not have nuclear weapons. What I am saying is that a strategic nuclear system such as Trident or its replacement is not necessarily the best use of our defence budget. Cheaper and better options that would scare anyone rational enough to be scared of Trident are available. 50 nuclear armed cruise missiles on 20 different sites, for example. Russia is a pale shadow of the threat the Soviet Union was in my childhood.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
No. Just a bit weird is a flattering description. Imbecilic is a more fitting one.
The British protests essentially say that dicriumination and indifference towards black people is endemic in the UK as well, and the US events are simply the latest example of a general phenomenon. The examples that a couple of us have given here of black drivers being routinely stopped by police and asked to show proof that they have a right to drive their cars are a small illustration. I could give more, but suspect you would either not believe me or dismiss them as anecdotal.
I think the demos are a stretch, because the position in the US is xlearly worse, but they're not imbecilic, and I know two people who have said that it's made them have a think about their own attitudes and how they might improve them.
Indifference toward all shades of melanin should be welcomed, not condemned. The general tenor of these protests is to foster a sense of injustice and grievance that is corrosive to the individual in which they are fostered, and has a harmfully divisive effect on society in general. It is a road to nowhere. The risibly imported 'trigger' to the protests is not the only objection.
No, being colour blind is not enough, though clearly better than overt bigotry. Being colour blind means not being willing to accept the history and culture of black people, nor the part of British culture in generating that history.
No, it is enough - not just enough, essential. If somebody remains beholden to an inherited sense of loss, sorrow, and anger, it will poison their life. Telling black people that they've started life with a handicap is simply an appalling and counterproductive thing to do.
Denying or ignoring our role in past oppression of BAME communities is in itself racist.
Being Anti-racist is a more active position than being colour blind. It means challenging racism, both direct and indirect when we encounter it, and that includes a certain amount of uncomfortable self reflection on our own attitudes.
That's right. You can be both racist and an anti-racist. In fact, recognizing and fighting the racism in yourself arguably makes for a more authentic anti-racist than being utterly free of it, as in "colour blind". Which imo very few people of middle age and upwards are. Indeed if I hear the phrase "haven't got a racist bone in my body" from any such individual I tend to form the opposite conclusion.
In my experience people who aren't racist have no need to advertise that fact.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
As a matter of interest - what do you suggest we do when the matter of the Austrian State Treaty comes up? :-)
Why should it come up? Its an historical anachronism. Trump is planning to remove the last US troop from Germany completing the withdrawal of the US from mainline Europe. We are in the fortunate position of being a quiet backwater of less and less significance in world affairs. We should take advantage.
On that basis you should support the Scottish independence and nuclear disarmament.
I do not support Scottish Independence and never will. Nuclear disarmament is something I am more open about, especially if the money was redirected to improving our conventional capability. The need for a strategic nuclear capability (as opposed to tactical capability) really ended in 1989.
As long as Russia has nuclear weapons so should we (Sir Humphrey of course famously said the same about France)
I'm with David. They're a useless geegaw. Can't send them in against something like Coronavirus can we (not that we can of course send conventional forces in either)?
If ourselves and the French gave up nuclear weapons and Putin decided to invade western Europe, there is little we do could to stop him
I don't think Putin has the ability to invade Western Europe, but if he does, I also don't think we would be physically able to use our nuclear deterrent on him, because I don't think America would let us. As I've said before, we *know* that without their cooperation our deterrent would be useless in weeks. What we don't *know* publicly is (I think) that if we did fire one off, they would have the ability to kill it. I have no idea if it's connected, but when Theresa May tested Trident, I have a recollection that the missile unexpectedly just turned tail and headed for Florida.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
No. Just a bit weird is a flattering description. Imbecilic is a more fitting one.
The British protests essentially say that dicriumination and indifference towards black people is endemic in the UK as well, and the US events are simply the latest example of a general phenomenon. The examples that a couple of us have given here of black drivers being routinely stopped by police and asked to show proof that they have a right to drive their cars are a small illustration. I could give more, but suspect you would either not believe me or dismiss them as anecdotal.
I think the demos are a stretch, because the position in the US is xlearly worse, but they're not imbecilic, and I know two people who have said that it's made them have a think about their own attitudes and how they might improve them.
Indifference toward all shades of melanin should be welcomed, not condemned. The general tenor of these protests is to foster a sense of injustice and grievance that is corrosive to the individual in which they are fostered, and has a harmfully divisive effect on society in general. It is a road to nowhere. The risibly imported 'trigger' to the protests is not the only objection.
No, being colour blind is not enough, though clearly better than overt bigotry. Being colour blind means not being willing to accept the history and culture of black people, nor the part of British culture in generating that history.
No, it is enough - not just enough, essential. If somebody remains beholden to an inherited sense of loss, sorrow, and anger, it will poison their life. Telling black people that they've started life with a handicap is simply an appalling and counterproductive thing to do.
Denying or ignoring our role in past oppression of BAME communities is in itself racist.
Being Anti-racist is a more active position than being colour blind. It means challenging racism, both direct and indirect when we encounter it, and that includes a certain amount of uncomfortable self reflection on our own attitudes.
That's right. You can be both racist and an anti-racist. In fact, recognizing and fighting the racism in yourself arguably makes for a more authentic anti-racist than being utterly free of it, as in "colour blind". Which imo very few people of middle age and upwards are. Indeed if I hear the phrase "haven't got a racist bone in my body" from any such individual I tend to form the opposite conclusion.
'I'm not a racist but' has a similar effect on me. See also 'I'm no fan of Trump/Farage/LePen but' etc.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
As a matter of interest - what do you suggest we do when the matter of the Austrian State Treaty comes up? :-)
Why should it come up? Its an historical anachronism. Trump is planning to remove the last US troop from Germany completing the withdrawal of the US from mainline Europe. We are in the fortunate position of being a quiet backwater of less and less significance in world affairs. We should take advantage.
On that basis you should support the Scottish independence and nuclear disarmament.
I do not support Scottish Independence and never will. Nuclear disarmament is something I am more open about, especially if the money was redirected to improving our conventional capability. The need for a strategic nuclear capability (as opposed to tactical capability) really ended in 1989.
As long as Russia has nuclear weapons so should we (Sir Humphrey of course famously said the same about France)
I'm with David. They're a useless geegaw. Can't send them in against something like Coronavirus can we (not that we can of course send conventional forces in either)?
If ourselves and the French gave up nuclear weapons and Putin decided to invade western Europe, there is little we do could to stop him
Rubbish. The Russian army has barely held its own against largely untrained Ukrainian militias.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Tbh, SAGE have had a terrible crisis. Their advice has been wrong basically at every point.
What do you expect from an organisation that was told what to say by a fifth rate arrogant failed think tank director?
Tbf to Dom he forced their hand on lockdown and tried to do the same for quarantine in January. SAGE were against both and had to be forced into agreeing with the former and still think they were right about the latter. They are clearly a bunch of arrogant dickheads.
The disregard of testing was another thing the 'experts' are to blame for.
A report presented to the government’s Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) on 12 February, when the UK was still actively tracing contacts of those infected with Covid-19, recommended a 10-fold increase in Public Health England’s test-and-trace capacity in order to extend the number of cases that could be managed.
“Scaling this response up, using for example a call-centre type system to support the local PHE teams, should be possible and feasible,” the experts from Public Health England and the University of Cambridge recommended.
However, this suggestion does not appear to have been pursued and contact tracing was abandoned in March.
One of the concerns expressed (and this might have been resolved) was that some chunks of experience were missing from SAGE. In particular, people from a boring public health background. So the UK put insufficient effort into boring but useful things like manual track and trace.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
No. Just a bit weird is a flattering description. Imbecilic is a more fitting one.
The British protests essentially say that dicriumination and indifference towards black people is endemic in the UK as well, and the US events are simply the latest example of a general phenomenon. The examples that a couple of us have given here of black drivers being routinely stopped by police and asked to show proof that they have a right to drive their cars are a small illustration. I could give more, but suspect you would either not believe me or dismiss them as anecdotal.
I think the demos are a stretch, because the position in the US is xlearly worse, but they're not imbecilic, and I know two people who have said that it's made them have a think about their own attitudes and how they might improve them.
Indifference toward all shades of melanin should be welcomed, not condemned. The general tenor of these protests is to foster a sense of injustice and grievance that is corrosive to the individual in which they are fostered, and has a harmfully divisive effect on society in general. It is a road to nowhere. The risibly imported 'trigger' to the protests is not the only objection.
No, being colour blind is not enough, though clearly better than overt bigotry. Being colour blind means not being willing to accept the history and culture of black people, nor the part of British culture in generating that history.
No, it is enough - not just enough, essential. If somebody remains beholden to an inherited sense of loss, sorrow, and anger, it will poison their life. Telling black people that they've started life with a handicap is simply an appalling and counterproductive thing to do.
Denying or ignoring our role in past oppression of BAME communities is in itself racist.
Being Anti-racist is a more active position than being colour blind. It means challenging racism, both direct and indirect when we encounter it, and that includes a certain amount of uncomfortable self reflection on our own attitudes.
That may be your notion of racism, but it isn't one that I subscribe to, nor is it the dictionary definition. Racism, like Fascism, seems to be an encroaching term, as more and more behaviours and views that are not racist fall within the scope of its baleful usage.
Particularly when it leads to people being able to be racist without even knowing it.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
As a matter of interest - what do you suggest we do when the matter of the Austrian State Treaty comes up? :-)
Why should it come up? Its an historical anachronism. Trump is planning to remove the last US troop from Germany completing the withdrawal of the US from mainline Europe. We are in the fortunate position of being a quiet backwater of less and less significance in world affairs. We should take advantage.
On that basis you should support the Scottish independence and nuclear disarmament.
I do not support Scottish Independence and never will. Nuclear disarmament is something I am more open about, especially if the money was redirected to improving our conventional capability. The need for a strategic nuclear capability (as opposed to tactical capability) really ended in 1989.
When you say "never will", do you mean that you would fight against it even after losing a referendum?
Yes. And I have not criticised remainers for doing likewise. They are entitled to their view as I would be entitled to mine.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
No. Just a bit weird is a flattering description. Imbecilic is a more fitting one.
The British protests essentially say that dicriumination and indifference towards black people is endemic in the UK as well, and the US events are simply the latest example of a general phenomenon. The examples that a couple of us have given here of black drivers being routinely stopped by police and asked to show proof that they have a right to drive their cars are a small illustration. I could give more, but suspect you would either not believe me or dismiss them as anecdotal.
I think the demos are a stretch, because the position in the US is xlearly worse, but they're not imbecilic, and I know two people who have said that it's made them have a think about their own attitudes and how they might improve them.
Indifference toward all shades of melanin should be welcomed, not condemned. The general tenor of these protests is to foster a sense of injustice and grievance that is corrosive to the individual in which they are fostered, and has a harmfully divisive effect on society in general. It is a road to nowhere. The risibly imported 'trigger' to the protests is not the only objection.
No, being colour blind is not enough, though clearly better than overt bigotry. Being colour blind means not being willing to accept the history and culture of black people, nor the part of British culture in generating that history.
No, it is enough - not just enough, essential. If somebody remains beholden to an inherited sense of loss, sorrow, and anger, it will poison their life. Telling black people that they've started life with a handicap is simply an appalling and counterproductive thing to do.
Denying or ignoring our role in past oppression of BAME communities is in itself racist.
Being Anti-racist is a more active position than being colour blind. It means challenging racism, both direct and indirect when we encounter it, and that includes a certain amount of uncomfortable self reflection on our own attitudes.
That's right. You can be both racist and an anti-racist. In fact, recognizing and fighting the racism in yourself arguably makes for a more authentic anti-racist than being utterly free of it, as in "colour blind". Which imo very few people of middle age and upwards are. Indeed if I hear the phrase "haven't got a racist bone in my body" from any such individual I tend to form the opposite conclusion.
'I'm not a racist but' has a similar effect on me. See also 'I'm no fan of Trump/Farage/LePen but' etc.
I know its an axiom to 'ignore everything before the but', however it is not always right to do so because it can be a very convenient way of declaring that someone does not mean what they say but mean what you want them to mean, quite often by suggesting they in fact support the things they say they do not support, and thus can be easily dismissed without any evidence.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
No. Just a bit weird is a flattering description. Imbecilic is a more fitting one.
The British protests essentially say that dicriumination and indifference towards black people is endemic in the UK as well, and the US events are simply the latest example of a general phenomenon. The examples that a couple of us have given here of black drivers being routinely stopped by police and asked to show proof that they have a right to drive their cars are a small illustration. I could give more, but suspect you would either not believe me or dismiss them as anecdotal.
I think the demos are a stretch, because the position in the US is xlearly worse, but they're not imbecilic, and I know two people who have said that it's made them have a think about their own attitudes and how they might improve them.
Indifference toward all shades of melanin should be welcomed, not condemned. The general tenor of these protests is to foster a sense of injustice and grievance that is corrosive to the individual in which they are fostered, and has a harmfully divisive effect on society in general. It is a road to nowhere. The risibly imported 'trigger' to the protests is not the only objection.
No, being colour blind is not enough, though clearly better than overt bigotry. Being colour blind means not being willing to accept the history and culture of black people, nor the part of British culture in generating that history.
No, it is enough - not just enough, essential. If somebody remains beholden to an inherited sense of loss, sorrow, and anger, it will poison their life. Telling black people that they've started life with a handicap is simply an appalling and counterproductive thing to do.
Denying or ignoring our role in past oppression of BAME communities is in itself racist.
Being Anti-racist is a more active position than being colour blind. It means challenging racism, both direct and indirect when we encounter it, and that includes a certain amount of uncomfortable self reflection on our own attitudes.
That may be your notion of racism, but it isn't one that I subscribe to, nor is it the dictionary definition. Racism, like Fascism, seems to be an encroaching term, as more and more behaviours and views that are not racist fall within the scope of its baleful usage. Precise definitions are important and it is dangerous to play with them to suit an agenda.
You're right that being an 'Anti' of anything implies a much more active approach than merely lacking prejudice. That's why it's so harmful. It involves searching for the thing you're 'anti' and searching inevitably leads to finding. You end up flagellating yourself and sitting in judgement over others. Like any mental blight, it will be a faithless friend, and the things you do to appease it will never be enough.
Not searching - recognizing.
'Recognising' is a term that implies something is the whole truth. Given that I don't agree that you have 'the whole truth', I am saying that what you term 'recognition' is better termed searching and finding. You believe something, and life provides you with evidence of it. It's the same for all of us - it's why we just don't *get* how those other people can believe that thing when all the evidence screams to the contrary.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Tbh, SAGE have had a terrible crisis. Their advice has been wrong basically at every point.
What do you expect from an organisation that was told what to say by a fifth rate arrogant failed think tank director?
Tbf to Dom he forced their hand on lockdown and tried to do the same for quarantine in January. SAGE were against both and had to be forced into agreeing with the former and still think they were right about the latter. They are clearly a bunch of arrogant dickheads.
The disregard of testing was another thing the 'experts' are to blame for.
A report presented to the government’s Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) on 12 February, when the UK was still actively tracing contacts of those infected with Covid-19, recommended a 10-fold increase in Public Health England’s test-and-trace capacity in order to extend the number of cases that could be managed.
“Scaling this response up, using for example a call-centre type system to support the local PHE teams, should be possible and feasible,” the experts from Public Health England and the University of Cambridge recommended.
However, this suggestion does not appear to have been pursued and contact tracing was abandoned in March.
More test and trace capacity would have been good - though how much a tenfold increase would have been depends on how much capacity they had at the time.
But the lack of overall testing throughout March and April was a major failing.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
As a matter of interest - what do you suggest we do when the matter of the Austrian State Treaty comes up? :-)
Why should it come up? Its an historical anachronism. Trump is planning to remove the last US troop from Germany completing the withdrawal of the US from mainline Europe. We are in the fortunate position of being a quiet backwater of less and less significance in world affairs. We should take advantage.
On that basis you should support the Scottish independence and nuclear disarmament.
I do not support Scottish Independence and never will. Nuclear disarmament is something I am more open about, especially if the money was redirected to improving our conventional capability. The need for a strategic nuclear capability (as opposed to tactical capability) really ended in 1989.
When you say "never will", do you mean that you would fight against it even after losing a referendum?
Yes. And I have not criticised remainers for doing likewise. They are entitled to their view as I would be entitled to mine.
If, in your lifetime, we have a united Ireland and a sovereign Scotland, England and Wales, would you fight to reconstitute the British union?
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
Ultimately the cost of staying in the EU was eventually becoming part of the USE. The path for the UK is to be a nuclear version of Canada or Australia. The idea that we could still be one of the two world powers was never going to hold and the idea that we could stamp our authority within the EU was also an idea that was never going to hold.
Brexit was an inevitability given the alternative. Already we're seeing a renewed push for "more Europe" from the commission. If we'd voted to remain it would have been impossible to oppose the Corona bailout and we'd have been on the hook for hundreds of billions as the second largest economy and holding the ability to print our own money.
The option of fully embracing European integration was and remains a viable alternative. In the long run there is no alternative.
There is absolutely an alternative, not being in it.
It's not sustainable. The UK isn't a Canada or an Australia, or even a Switzerland.
I think it already is, so are all of the European countries. A bunch of second and third rank countries coming together is still just a bunch of second and third rank countries. It does nothing to project more than the sum of the total.
I meant it in a different sense. The UK is the relic of a faded empire. If we hadn't begun detaching ourselves from the EU after the introduction of the Euro, then it may have held together in its present form, as European borders would have held less and less significance to the lives of ordinary people. Brexit puts the integrity of the UK at stake in a big way.
The UK was finished off by the lop-sided New Labour devolution scheme, a masterpiece of strategic political ineptitude which sundered Blair's country and his party along with it.
All that saved the Union in 2014 was Scotland's budget deficit and the financing thereof by the English taxpayer. The moment that Scottish public spending ceases to be critically reliant on subsidy is the moment that the Scottish electorate will go stampeding for the exit door. It's merely a matter of time.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
As a matter of interest - what do you suggest we do when the matter of the Austrian State Treaty comes up? :-)
Why should it come up? Its an historical anachronism. Trump is planning to remove the last US troop from Germany completing the withdrawal of the US from mainline Europe. We are in the fortunate position of being a quiet backwater of less and less significance in world affairs. We should take advantage.
On that basis you should support the Scottish independence and nuclear disarmament.
I do not support Scottish Independence and never will. Nuclear disarmament is something I am more open about, especially if the money was redirected to improving our conventional capability. The need for a strategic nuclear capability (as opposed to tactical capability) really ended in 1989.
When you say "never will", do you mean that you would fight against it even after losing a referendum?
Yes. And I have not criticised remainers for doing likewise. They are entitled to their view as I would be entitled to mine.
If, in your lifetime, we have a united Ireland and a sovereign Scotland, England and Wales, would you fight to reconstitute the British union?
Indeed, I think it very likely that DavidL will be back in the EU, well before those of us south of Berwick are.
An encouraging development for Biden (and contra to what some on here had previously speculated):
Democrats discover a new team player: Bernie Sanders https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/06/bernie-sanders-democrats-2020-304277 ... Some of Sanders’ allies, in explaining why they formed outside groups to help elect Biden but declined to go that far for Clinton, said they did not expect Trump to win in 2016.
“Many of us who believed that Donald Trump could win in 2016 also believed that Hillary Clinton would win. And that has proven to not be the case,” said Jeff Weaver, Sanders’ longtime adviser and friend who created America’s Progressive Promise, a pro-Biden super PAC. “I feel a great responsibility having worked in this progressive space for 35 years — my entire adult life — at the side of Bernie Sanders to make sure that we stop what is happening in this country.”...
I expect there is quite a lot of that kind of “fool me once...” sentiment out there about Trump.
Yep, easy to forget that Trump was to some extent an unknown quantity, particularly the quantity that suggested he could be POTUS. We all know about him now.
This is at the heart of why I expect a clear defeat for him.
Group 1 - Voted for him in 2016 with a certain reluctance but having experienced 4 years of him do not do so in 2020.
Group 2 - Did not support him in 2016 but are sufficiently impressed by the reality of him in office to vote for him in 2020.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
As a matter of interest - what do you suggest we do when the matter of the Austrian State Treaty comes up? :-)
Why should it come up? Its an historical anachronism. Trump is planning to remove the last US troop from Germany completing the withdrawal of the US from mainline Europe. We are in the fortunate position of being a quiet backwater of less and less significance in world affairs. We should take advantage.
On that basis you should support the Scottish independence and nuclear disarmament.
I do not support Scottish Independence and never will. Nuclear disarmament is something I am more open about, especially if the money was redirected to improving our conventional capability. The need for a strategic nuclear capability (as opposed to tactical capability) really ended in 1989.
When you say "never will", do you mean that you would fight against it even after losing a referendum?
Yes. And I have not criticised remainers for doing likewise. They are entitled to their view as I would be entitled to mine.
If, in your lifetime, we have a united Ireland and a sovereign Scotland, England and Wales, would you fight to reconstitute the British union?
I don't expect to see any of these but no, I wouldn't fight to reconstitute the UK if democratically made decisions had resulted in it breaking up. But I would greatly regret the passing of the land of my birth and am convinced that Scotland would be much the poorer, economically, socially, politically and culturally for it.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Tbh, SAGE have had a terrible crisis. Their advice has been wrong basically at every point.
What do you expect from an organisation that was told what to say by a fifth rate arrogant failed think tank director?
Tbf to Dom he forced their hand on lockdown and tried to do the same for quarantine in January. SAGE were against both and had to be forced into agreeing with the former and still think they were right about the latter. They are clearly a bunch of arrogant dickheads.
The disregard of testing was another thing the 'experts' are to blame for.
A report presented to the government’s Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) on 12 February, when the UK was still actively tracing contacts of those infected with Covid-19, recommended a 10-fold increase in Public Health England’s test-and-trace capacity in order to extend the number of cases that could be managed.
“Scaling this response up, using for example a call-centre type system to support the local PHE teams, should be possible and feasible,” the experts from Public Health England and the University of Cambridge recommended.
However, this suggestion does not appear to have been pursued and contact tracing was abandoned in March.
More test and trace capacity would have been good - though how much a tenfold increase would have been depends on how much capacity they had at the time.
But the lack of overall testing throughout March and April was a major failing.
Yes. I’m not really defending SAGE - they’ve made some howlers. But they haven’t always been wrong, and government has made mistakes quite independently of scientific advice.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
As a matter of interest - what do you suggest we do when the matter of the Austrian State Treaty comes up? :-)
Why should it come up? Its an historical anachronism. Trump is planning to remove the last US troop from Germany completing the withdrawal of the US from mainline Europe. We are in the fortunate position of being a quiet backwater of less and less significance in world affairs. We should take advantage.
On that basis you should support the Scottish independence and nuclear disarmament.
I do not support Scottish Independence and never will. Nuclear disarmament is something I am more open about, especially if the money was redirected to improving our conventional capability. The need for a strategic nuclear capability (as opposed to tactical capability) really ended in 1989.
When you say "never will", do you mean that you would fight against it even after losing a referendum?
Yes. And I have not criticised remainers for doing likewise. They are entitled to their view as I would be entitled to mine.
If, in your lifetime, we have a united Ireland and a sovereign Scotland, England and Wales, would you fight to reconstitute the British union?
Indeed, I think it very likely that DavidL will be back in the EU, well before those of us south of Berwick are.
I think you're right - he's booked to go to Benidorm as soon as they have flights out of Prestwick.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
As a matter of interest - what do you suggest we do when the matter of the Austrian State Treaty comes up? :-)
Why should it come up? Its an historical anachronism. Trump is planning to remove the last US troop from Germany completing the withdrawal of the US from mainline Europe. We are in the fortunate position of being a quiet backwater of less and less significance in world affairs. We should take advantage.
On that basis you should support the Scottish independence and nuclear disarmament.
I do not support Scottish Independence and never will. Nuclear disarmament is something I am more open about, especially if the money was redirected to improving our conventional capability. The need for a strategic nuclear capability (as opposed to tactical capability) really ended in 1989.
As long as Russia has nuclear weapons so should we (Sir Humphrey of course famously said the same about France)
I'm with David. They're a useless geegaw. Can't send them in against something like Coronavirus can we (not that we can of course send conventional forces in either)?
If ourselves and the French gave up nuclear weapons and Putin decided to invade western Europe, there is little we do could to stop him
I don't think Putin has the ability to invade Western Europe, but if he does, I also don't think we would be physically able to use our nuclear deterrent on him, because I don't think America would let us. As I've said before, we *know* that without their cooperation our deterrent would be useless in weeks. What we don't *know* publicly is (I think) that if we did fire one off, they would have the ability to kill it. I have no idea if it's connected, but when Theresa May tested Trident, I have a recollection that the missile unexpectedly just turned tail and headed for Florida.
Your first statement is dangerously casual and the thought fills me with dread.
If Putin decided he wanted the Baltic States back and while he was at it fancied Spain and Portugal too, he has the personnel, the equipment and the firepower to march through Central Western Europe like a knife through butter. Why he has resisted in the past is the expectation that the USA would rain fire and brimstone across his empire. If the POTUS is indeed in Putin's pocket we are buggered.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
As a matter of interest - what do you suggest we do when the matter of the Austrian State Treaty comes up? :-)
Why should it come up? Its an historical anachronism. Trump is planning to remove the last US troop from Germany completing the withdrawal of the US from mainline Europe. We are in the fortunate position of being a quiet backwater of less and less significance in world affairs. We should take advantage.
On that basis you should support the Scottish independence and nuclear disarmament.
I do not support Scottish Independence and never will. Nuclear disarmament is something I am more open about, especially if the money was redirected to improving our conventional capability. The need for a strategic nuclear capability (as opposed to tactical capability) really ended in 1989.
As long as Russia has nuclear weapons so should we (Sir Humphrey of course famously said the same about France)
I'm with David. They're a useless geegaw. Can't send them in against something like Coronavirus can we (not that we can of course send conventional forces in either)?
If ourselves and the French gave up nuclear weapons and Putin decided to invade western Europe, there is little we do could to stop him
Rubbish. The Russian army has barely held its own against largely untrained Ukrainian militias.
Russian forces only fully invaded Crimea which are now under Russian control, the rest was support for pro Russian separatists.
The Russian armed forces are 900,000 strong, France and the UK's combined only around 350,000 strong
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
As a matter of interest - what do you suggest we do when the matter of the Austrian State Treaty comes up? :-)
Why should it come up? Its an historical anachronism. Trump is planning to remove the last US troop from Germany completing the withdrawal of the US from mainline Europe. We are in the fortunate position of being a quiet backwater of less and less significance in world affairs. We should take advantage.
On that basis you should support the Scottish independence and nuclear disarmament.
I do not support Scottish Independence and never will. Nuclear disarmament is something I am more open about, especially if the money was redirected to improving our conventional capability. The need for a strategic nuclear capability (as opposed to tactical capability) really ended in 1989.
When you say "never will", do you mean that you would fight against it even after losing a referendum?
Yes. And I have not criticised remainers for doing likewise. They are entitled to their view as I would be entitled to mine.
If, in your lifetime, we have a united Ireland and a sovereign Scotland, England and Wales, would you fight to reconstitute the British union?
Indeed, I think it very likely that DavidL will be back in the EU, well before those of us south of Berwick are.
On topic - I think the thread header is mostly spot on. I would add one thing. I think there will be a push to repeal the 22nd Amendment and the bar on a third term, for a few reasons.
Firstly, it would drive Democrats nuts. This is useful as a distraction as much as anything. Secondly it's a step to normalizing the idea of a Trump third term - whether that's ultimately achieved by another route or not. Thirdly, it acts as a loyalty test for Republicans - which could be helpful in terms of support for a Trump-friendly candidate in 2024. Finally it acts as a mobilising tool for the midterms (though this is a double-edged effect).
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
No. Just a bit weird is a flattering description. Imbecilic is a more fitting one.
The British protests essentially say that dicriumination and indifference towards black people is endemic in the UK as well, and the US events are simply the latest example of a general phenomenon. The examples that a couple of us have given here of black drivers being routinely stopped by police and asked to show proof that they have a right to drive their cars are a small illustration. I could give more, but suspect you would either not believe me or dismiss them as anecdotal.
I think the demos are a stretch, because the position in the US is xlearly worse, but they're not imbecilic, and I know two people who have said that it's made them have a think about their own attitudes and how they might improve them.
Indifference toward all shades of melanin should be welcomed, not condemned. The general tenor of these protests is to foster a sense of injustice and grievance that is corrosive to the individual in which they are fostered, and has a harmfully divisive effect on society in general. It is a road to nowhere. The risibly imported 'trigger' to the protests is not the only objection.
No, being colour blind is not enough, though clearly better than overt bigotry. Being colour blind means not being willing to accept the history and culture of black people, nor the part of British culture in generating that history.
No, it is enough - not just enough, essential. If somebody remains beholden to an inherited sense of loss, sorrow, and anger, it will poison their life. Telling black people that they've started life with a handicap is simply an appalling and counterproductive thing to do.
Denying or ignoring our role in past oppression of BAME communities is in itself racist.
Being Anti-racist is a more active position than being colour blind. It means challenging racism, both direct and indirect when we encounter it, and that includes a certain amount of uncomfortable self reflection on our own attitudes.
That may be your notion of racism, but it isn't one that I subscribe to, nor is it the dictionary definition. Racism, like Fascism, seems to be an encroaching term, as more and more behaviours and views that are not racist fall within the scope of its baleful usage. Precise definitions are important and it is dangerous to play with them to suit an agenda.
You're right that being an 'Anti' of anything implies a much more active approach than merely lacking prejudice. That's why it's so harmful. It involves searching for the thing you're 'anti' and searching inevitably leads to finding. You end up flagellating yourself and sitting in judgement over others. Like any mental blight, it will be a faithless friend, and the things you do to appease it will never be enough.
Not searching - recognizing.
'Recognising' is a term that implies something is the whole truth. Given that I don't agree that you have 'the whole truth', I am saying that what you term 'recognition' is better termed searching and finding. You believe something, and life provides you with evidence of it. It's the same for all of us - it's why we just don't *get* how those other people can believe that thing when all the evidence screams to the contrary.
Not the whole truth - that is beyond our ken - just a small but important part of it. Important because it handicaps the understanding of certain things if it is omitted. There's a risk of over-intellectualizing this stuff imo.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
Ultimately the cost of staying in the EU was eventually becoming part of the USE. The path for the UK is to be a nuclear version of Canada or Australia. The idea that we could still be one of the two world powers was never going to hold and the idea that we could stamp our authority within the EU was also an idea that was never going to hold.
Brexit was an inevitability given the alternative. Already we're seeing a renewed push for "more Europe" from the commission. If we'd voted to remain it would have been impossible to oppose the Corona bailout and we'd have been on the hook for hundreds of billions as the second largest economy and holding the ability to print our own money.
The option of fully embracing European integration was and remains a viable alternative. In the long run there is no alternative.
There is absolutely an alternative, not being in it.
It's not sustainable. The UK isn't a Canada or an Australia, or even a Switzerland.
I think it already is, so are all of the European countries. A bunch of second and third rank countries coming together is still just a bunch of second and third rank countries. It does nothing to project more than the sum of the total.
I meant it in a different sense. The UK is the relic of a faded empire. If we hadn't begun detaching ourselves from the EU after the introduction of the Euro, then it may have held together in its present form, as European borders would have held less and less significance to the lives of ordinary people. Brexit puts the integrity of the UK at stake in a big way.
The UK was finished off by the lop-sided New Labour devolution scheme, a masterpiece of strategic political ineptitude which sundered Blair's country and his party along with it.
All that saved the Union in 2014 was Scotland's budget deficit and the financing thereof by the English taxpayer. The moment that Scottish public spending ceases to be critically reliant on subsidy is the moment that the Scottish electorate will go stampeding for the exit door. It's merely a matter of time.
That really is an insult to the 2m+ Scots who were proud to call themselves British and voted accordingly.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
As a matter of interest - what do you suggest we do when the matter of the Austrian State Treaty comes up? :-)
Why should it come up? Its an historical anachronism. Trump is planning to remove the last US troop from Germany completing the withdrawal of the US from mainline Europe. We are in the fortunate position of being a quiet backwater of less and less significance in world affairs. We should take advantage.
On that basis you should support the Scottish independence and nuclear disarmament.
I do not support Scottish Independence and never will. Nuclear disarmament is something I am more open about, especially if the money was redirected to improving our conventional capability. The need for a strategic nuclear capability (as opposed to tactical capability) really ended in 1989.
When you say "never will", do you mean that you would fight against it even after losing a referendum?
Yes. And I have not criticised remainers for doing likewise. They are entitled to their view as I would be entitled to mine.
If, in your lifetime, we have a united Ireland and a sovereign Scotland, England and Wales, would you fight to reconstitute the British union?
I don't expect to see any of these but no, I wouldn't fight to reconstitute the UK if democratically made decisions had resulted in it breaking up. But I would greatly regret the passing of the land of my birth and am convinced that Scotland would be much the poorer, economically, socially, politically and culturally for it.
Were that to come about, why would you be disinclined to persuade Scotland to change its mind? There would be many who would want further Referendums at later dates to ascertain whether people stood by their decision - particularly if things went 'tits up'.
Almost all were recent deaths but still much down on previous Saturdays.
Had a quick look for myself, down almost 50% relative to the 146 reported last Saturday. The death figures are still in steady downward decline.
It would be good if those people who loudly predicted a second wave would be caused by the VE bank holiday weekend would acknowledge their mistake and show some relief at being wrong.
Almost all were recent deaths but still much down on previous Saturdays.
Had a quick look for myself, down almost 50% relative to the 146 reported last Saturday. The death figures are still in steady downward decline.
It would be good if those people who loudly predicted a second wave would be caused by the VE bank holiday weekend would acknowledge their mistake and show some relief at being wrong.
They would, but they're too busy protesting in Parliament Square right now...
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
As a matter of interest - what do you suggest we do when the matter of the Austrian State Treaty comes up? :-)
Why should it come up? Its an historical anachronism. Trump is planning to remove the last US troop from Germany completing the withdrawal of the US from mainline Europe. We are in the fortunate position of being a quiet backwater of less and less significance in world affairs. We should take advantage.
On that basis you should support the Scottish independence and nuclear disarmament.
I do not support Scottish Independence and never will. Nuclear disarmament is something I am more open about, especially if the money was redirected to improving our conventional capability. The need for a strategic nuclear capability (as opposed to tactical capability) really ended in 1989.
As long as Russia has nuclear weapons so should we (Sir Humphrey of course famously said the same about France)
I'm with David. They're a useless geegaw. Can't send them in against something like Coronavirus can we (not that we can of course send conventional forces in either)?
If ourselves and the French gave up nuclear weapons and Putin decided to invade western Europe, there is little we do could to stop him
Rubbish. The Russian army has barely held its own against largely untrained Ukrainian militias.
Russian forces only fully invaded Crimea which are now under Russian control, the rest was support for pro Russian separatists.
The Russian armed forces are 900,000 strong, France and the UK's combined only around 350,000 strong
An encouraging development for Biden (and contra to what some on here had previously speculated):
Democrats discover a new team player: Bernie Sanders https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/06/bernie-sanders-democrats-2020-304277 ... Some of Sanders’ allies, in explaining why they formed outside groups to help elect Biden but declined to go that far for Clinton, said they did not expect Trump to win in 2016.
“Many of us who believed that Donald Trump could win in 2016 also believed that Hillary Clinton would win. And that has proven to not be the case,” said Jeff Weaver, Sanders’ longtime adviser and friend who created America’s Progressive Promise, a pro-Biden super PAC. “I feel a great responsibility having worked in this progressive space for 35 years — my entire adult life — at the side of Bernie Sanders to make sure that we stop what is happening in this country.”...
I expect there is quite a lot of that kind of “fool me once...” sentiment out there about Trump.
Yep, easy to forget that Trump was to some extent an unknown quantity, particularly the quantity that suggested he could be POTUS. We all know about him now.
This is at the heart of why I expect a clear defeat for him.
Group 1 - Voted for him in 2016 with a certain reluctance but having experienced 4 years of him do not do so in 2020.
Group 2 - Did not support him in 2016 but are sufficiently impressed by the reality of him in office to vote for him in 2020.
Group 1 will imo be bigger than Group 2.
I predicted that Trump would either be very good or very bad.
Off topic - masks. I finally made myself a mask which I wore for the first time today.
This was a monumental hassle - mostly because of adjusting it so that it didn't fog up my glasses.
It reminded me of how I felt when I first used a condom. I know it's the right thing to do. I know it's important. I think that people who refuse to wear one for superficial reasons are acting irresponsibly. And yet I hated it and really don't want to do it.
I'll accept pretty much any practical alternative action that means I don't have to wear a mask.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
As a matter of interest - what do you suggest we do when the matter of the Austrian State Treaty comes up? :-)
Why should it come up? Its an historical anachronism. Trump is planning to remove the last US troop from Germany completing the withdrawal of the US from mainline Europe. We are in the fortunate position of being a quiet backwater of less and less significance in world affairs. We should take advantage.
On that basis you should support the Scottish independence and nuclear disarmament.
I do not support Scottish Independence and never will. Nuclear disarmament is something I am more open about, especially if the money was redirected to improving our conventional capability. The need for a strategic nuclear capability (as opposed to tactical capability) really ended in 1989.
When you say "never will", do you mean that you would fight against it even after losing a referendum?
Yes. And I have not criticised remainers for doing likewise. They are entitled to their view as I would be entitled to mine.
If, in your lifetime, we have a united Ireland and a sovereign Scotland, England and Wales, would you fight to reconstitute the British union?
Indeed, I think it very likely that DavidL will be back in the EU, well before those of us south of Berwick are.
I doubt it, the latest Scottish independence poll this week has Yes on 48% including Don't Knows, little different to the 45% who voted Yes in 2014 before Brexit
Almost all were recent deaths but still much down on previous Saturdays.
Had a quick look for myself, down almost 50% relative to the 146 reported last Saturday. The death figures are still in steady downward decline.
It would be good if those people who loudly predicted a second wave would be caused by the VE bank holiday weekend would acknowledge their mistake and show some relief at being wrong.
They would, but they're too busy protesting in Parliament Square right now...
how do we know it isn't making a difference? Perhaps the second wave was really a lengthening of the tail. There must be some reason the numbers are holding out.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
As a matter of interest - what do you suggest we do when the matter of the Austrian State Treaty comes up? :-)
Why should it come up? Its an historical anachronism. Trump is planning to remove the last US troop from Germany completing the withdrawal of the US from mainline Europe. We are in the fortunate position of being a quiet backwater of less and less significance in world affairs. We should take advantage.
On that basis you should support the Scottish independence and nuclear disarmament.
I do not support Scottish Independence and never will. Nuclear disarmament is something I am more open about, especially if the money was redirected to improving our conventional capability. The need for a strategic nuclear capability (as opposed to tactical capability) really ended in 1989.
As long as Russia has nuclear weapons so should we (Sir Humphrey of course famously said the same about France)
I'm with David. They're a useless geegaw. Can't send them in against something like Coronavirus can we (not that we can of course send conventional forces in either)?
If ourselves and the French gave up nuclear weapons and Putin decided to invade western Europe, there is little we do could to stop him
Rubbish. The Russian army has barely held its own against largely untrained Ukrainian militias.
Russian forces only fully invaded Crimea which are now under Russian control, the rest was support for pro Russian separatists.
The Russian armed forces are 900,000 strong, France and the UK's combined only around 350,000 strong
I think that they would struggle to beat Poland.
To beat Russia all the armed forces of NATO in Europe, France, the UK, Germany, Poland, Spain and Italy would need to combine and even then success is not guaranteed without US support
Almost all were recent deaths but still much down on previous Saturdays.
Had a quick look for myself, down almost 50% relative to the 146 reported last Saturday. The death figures are still in steady downward decline.
It would be good if those people who loudly predicted a second wave would be caused by the VE bank holiday weekend would acknowledge their mistake and show some relief at being wrong.
They would, but they're too busy protesting in Parliament Square right now...
It is absolute madness....also, i think worth pointing out that one concern about advocating masks was people would feel safe, i keep seeing twitter saying well most of these people are wearing them, so they will be ok.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
Ultimately the cost of staying in the EU was eventually becoming part of the USE. The path for the UK is to be a nuclear version of Canada or Australia. The idea that we could still be one of the two world powers was never going to hold and the idea that we could stamp our authority within the EU was also an idea that was never going to hold.
Brexit was an inevitability given the alternative. Already we're seeing a renewed push for "more Europe" from the commission. If we'd voted to remain it would have been impossible to oppose the Corona bailout and we'd have been on the hook for hundreds of billions as the second largest economy and holding the ability to print our own money.
The option of fully embracing European integration was and remains a viable alternative. In the long run there is no alternative.
There is absolutely an alternative, not being in it.
It's not sustainable. The UK isn't a Canada or an Australia, or even a Switzerland.
I think it already is, so are all of the European countries. A bunch of second and third rank countries coming together is still just a bunch of second and third rank countries. It does nothing to project more than the sum of the total.
I meant it in a different sense. The UK is the relic of a faded empire. If we hadn't begun detaching ourselves from the EU after the introduction of the Euro, then it may have held together in its present form, as European borders would have held less and less significance to the lives of ordinary people. Brexit puts the integrity of the UK at stake in a big way.
The UK was finished off by the lop-sided New Labour devolution scheme, a masterpiece of strategic political ineptitude which sundered Blair's country and his party along with it.
All that saved the Union in 2014 was Scotland's budget deficit and the financing thereof by the English taxpayer. The moment that Scottish public spending ceases to be critically reliant on subsidy is the moment that the Scottish electorate will go stampeding for the exit door. It's merely a matter of time.
That really is an insult to the 2m+ Scots who were proud to call themselves British and voted accordingly.
All the people who voted No in 2014 were proud to call themselves British? Somewhat roseate (& blue & white) tinted specs I think. On that basis the most recent poll suggests close to 400k of them have stopped being proud.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
As a matter of interest - what do you suggest we do when the matter of the Austrian State Treaty comes up? :-)
Why should it come up? Its an historical anachronism. Trump is planning to remove the last US troop from Germany completing the withdrawal of the US from mainline Europe. We are in the fortunate position of being a quiet backwater of less and less significance in world affairs. We should take advantage.
On that basis you should support the Scottish independence and nuclear disarmament.
I do not support Scottish Independence and never will. Nuclear disarmament is something I am more open about, especially if the money was redirected to improving our conventional capability. The need for a strategic nuclear capability (as opposed to tactical capability) really ended in 1989.
As long as Russia has nuclear weapons so should we (Sir Humphrey of course famously said the same about France)
I'm with David. They're a useless geegaw. Can't send them in against something like Coronavirus can we (not that we can of course send conventional forces in either)?
If ourselves and the French gave up nuclear weapons and Putin decided to invade western Europe, there is little we do could to stop him
I don't think Putin has the ability to invade Western Europe, but if he does, I also don't think we would be physically able to use our nuclear deterrent on him, because I don't think America would let us. As I've said before, we *know* that without their cooperation our deterrent would be useless in weeks. What we don't *know* publicly is (I think) that if we did fire one off, they would have the ability to kill it. I have no idea if it's connected, but when Theresa May tested Trident, I have a recollection that the missile unexpectedly just turned tail and headed for Florida.
Your first statement is dangerously casual and the thought fills me with dread.
If Putin decided he wanted the Baltic States back and while he was at it fancied Spain and Portugal too, he has the personnel, the equipment and the firepower to march through Central Western Europe like a knife through butter. Why he has resisted in the past is the expectation that the USA would rain fire and brimstone across his empire. If the POTUS is indeed in Putin's pocket we are buggered.
Just one question - why?
USSR vs. the West was a clash of ideologies. The USSR would have gladly forcibly subjected the world to Marxist communism if the opportunity arose, so I can believe they would want to invade Western Europe. Putin's Russia to invade - why? Not enough land mass? Not enough natural resources?
I see post-communist Russia's geopolitical aims as fairly consistent - de facto or de jure rule over all its bordering entities, as a strong defence against encroachment by the US and allies. Ruthless in crushing both internal and external threats. To do this they use fair means or foul. All their behaviour over recent years sits quite comfortably within that narrative.
What will amuse me is if China becomes the new enemy and it becomes necessary to schmooze Russia again. How quickly the gay activists, Ukrainians, Syrian rebels etc. will be dropped and forgotten when there's a new bogeyman du jour.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
As a matter of interest - what do you suggest we do when the matter of the Austrian State Treaty comes up? :-)
Why should it come up? Its an historical anachronism. Trump is planning to remove the last US troop from Germany completing the withdrawal of the US from mainline Europe. We are in the fortunate position of being a quiet backwater of less and less significance in world affairs. We should take advantage.
On that basis you should support the Scottish independence and nuclear disarmament.
I do not support Scottish Independence and never will. Nuclear disarmament is something I am more open about, especially if the money was redirected to improving our conventional capability. The need for a strategic nuclear capability (as opposed to tactical capability) really ended in 1989.
When you say "never will", do you mean that you would fight against it even after losing a referendum?
Yes. And I have not criticised remainers for doing likewise. They are entitled to their view as I would be entitled to mine.
If, in your lifetime, we have a united Ireland and a sovereign Scotland, England and Wales, would you fight to reconstitute the British union?
I don't expect to see any of these but no, I wouldn't fight to reconstitute the UK if democratically made decisions had resulted in it breaking up. But I would greatly regret the passing of the land of my birth and am convinced that Scotland would be much the poorer, economically, socially, politically and culturally for it.
Were that to come about, why would you be disinclined to persuade Scotland to change its mind? There would be many who would want further Referendums at later dates to ascertain whether people stood by their decision - particularly if things went 'tits up'.
I would for Scotland. I would not for NI or Wales. That is a matter for those that live there.
It's interesting watching clueless people argue with David Paton about statistics.
His Twitter profile should be a mandatory follow for all journalists allowed to ask the government questions. It would cut down on the amount of disinformation we see from the media.
Sadly, though, the main reason for poor statistics reporting in the media is the government reporting of them. The fact that the government is still using the same idiotic reporting date and 7 day average trend line is both lamentable and unrepresentative of the current situation. I'm not saying they should do a Spain and report on yesterday and nothing else, but the report should now move to date of death not date of reporting. The fact that we won't know when the 350 or so deaths reported yesterday actually occured until the ONS report comes out in three weeks is no longer acceptable.
It's quite likely we're recording fewer than 100 community deaths per day at this stage and falling but the picture painted by the official government statistics is completely different and wrong.
I use another site which is just figures. The commentary is unnecessary, I don’t need anyone putting their spin on what I can see for myself.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
As a matter of interest - what do you suggest we do when the matter of the Austrian State Treaty comes up? :-)
Why should it come up? Its an historical anachronism. Trump is planning to remove the last US troop from Germany completing the withdrawal of the US from mainline Europe. We are in the fortunate position of being a quiet backwater of less and less significance in world affairs. We should take advantage.
On that basis you should support the Scottish independence and nuclear disarmament.
I do not support Scottish Independence and never will. Nuclear disarmament is something I am more open about, especially if the money was redirected to improving our conventional capability. The need for a strategic nuclear capability (as opposed to tactical capability) really ended in 1989.
When you say "never will", do you mean that you would fight against it even after losing a referendum?
Yes. And I have not criticised remainers for doing likewise. They are entitled to their view as I would be entitled to mine.
If, in your lifetime, we have a united Ireland and a sovereign Scotland, England and Wales, would you fight to reconstitute the British union?
I don't expect to see any of these but no, I wouldn't fight to reconstitute the UK if democratically made decisions had resulted in it breaking up. But I would greatly regret the passing of the land of my birth and am convinced that Scotland would be much the poorer, economically, socially, politically and culturally for it.
Were that to come about, why would you be disinclined to persuade Scotland to change its mind? There would be many who would want further Referendums at later dates to ascertain whether people stood by their decision - particularly if things went 'tits up'.
I would for Scotland. I would not for NI or Wales. That is a matter for those that live there.
Almost all were recent deaths but still much down on previous Saturdays.
Had a quick look for myself, down almost 50% relative to the 146 reported last Saturday. The death figures are still in steady downward decline.
It would be good if those people who loudly predicted a second wave would be caused by the VE bank holiday weekend would acknowledge their mistake and show some relief at being wrong.
I was nervous about the VE shenanigans, though I don't think I said it would lead to a second wave.
I am relieved that it hasn't, and it's another piece of evidence for outdoor activity being much safer than indoors. I think there's no justification on any further restrictions on outdoor activities - with the possible exception of communal singing, chanting, etc. Loud protests and sport crowds might be a risk.
An encouraging development for Biden (and contra to what some on here had previously speculated):
Democrats discover a new team player: Bernie Sanders https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/06/bernie-sanders-democrats-2020-304277 ... Some of Sanders’ allies, in explaining why they formed outside groups to help elect Biden but declined to go that far for Clinton, said they did not expect Trump to win in 2016.
“Many of us who believed that Donald Trump could win in 2016 also believed that Hillary Clinton would win. And that has proven to not be the case,” said Jeff Weaver, Sanders’ longtime adviser and friend who created America’s Progressive Promise, a pro-Biden super PAC. “I feel a great responsibility having worked in this progressive space for 35 years — my entire adult life — at the side of Bernie Sanders to make sure that we stop what is happening in this country.”...
I expect there is quite a lot of that kind of “fool me once...” sentiment out there about Trump.
Yep, easy to forget that Trump was to some extent an unknown quantity, particularly the quantity that suggested he could be POTUS. We all know about him now.
This is at the heart of why I expect a clear defeat for him.
Group 1 - Voted for him in 2016 with a certain reluctance but having experienced 4 years of him do not do so in 2020.
Group 2 - Did not support him in 2016 but are sufficiently impressed by the reality of him in office to vote for him in 2020.
Group 1 will imo be bigger than Group 2.
I predicted that Trump would either be very good or very bad.
What will amuse me is if China becomes the new enemy and it becomes necessary to schmooze Russia again. How quickly the gay activists, Ukrainians, Syrian rebels etc. will be dropped and forgotten when there's a new bogeyman du jour.
You have that back to front. The question is what Russia will do when it realises that China is a threat. You may find all the propaganda about Europe being "Gayropa", Ukrainians being Nazis, and so on, gets dropped as Russia realises its strategic interests lie in Western integration.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
No. Just a bit weird is a flattering description. Imbecilic is a more fitting one.
The British protests essentially say that dicriumination and indifference towards black people is endemic in the UK as well, and the US events are simply the latest example of a general phenomenon. The examples that a couple of us have given here of black drivers being routinely stopped by police and asked to show proof that they have a right to drive their cars are a small illustration. I could give more, but suspect you would either not believe me or dismiss them as anecdotal.
I think the demos are a stretch, because the position in the US is xlearly worse, but they're not imbecilic, and I know two people who have said that it's made them have a think about their own attitudes and how they might improve them.
Indifference toward all shades of melanin should be welcomed, not condemned. The general tenor of these protests is to foster a sense of injustice and grievance that is corrosive to the individual in which they are fostered, and has a harmfully divisive effect on society in general. It is a road to nowhere. The risibly imported 'trigger' to the protests is not the only objection.
No, being colour blind is not enough, though clearly better than overt bigotry. Being colour blind means not being willing to accept the history and culture of black people, nor the part of British culture in generating that history.
No, it is enough - not just enough, essential. If somebody remains beholden to an inherited sense of loss, sorrow, and anger, it will poison their life. Telling black people that they've started life with a handicap is simply an appalling and counterproductive thing to do.
Denying or ignoring our role in past oppression of BAME communities is in itself racist.
Being Anti-racist is a more active position than being colour blind. It means challenging racism, both direct and indirect when we encounter it, and that includes a certain amount of uncomfortable self reflection on our own attitudes.
That's right. You can be both racist and an anti-racist. In fact, recognizing and fighting the racism in yourself arguably makes for a more authentic anti-racist than being utterly free of it, as in "colour blind". Which imo very few people of middle age and upwards are. Indeed if I hear the phrase "haven't got a racist bone in my body" from any such individual I tend to form the opposite conclusion.
In my experience people who aren't racist have no need to advertise that fact.
As a general rule I think people should be judged on behaviour only. What they think and feel does not matter if it stays within.
For example -
Mr A - a politician who has no racist feelings or beliefs but who dog whistles like crazy to attract the racist vote.
Mr B - a politician who believes in white supremacy but never says so, never writes so, never indicates so externally in any way.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
As a matter of interest - what do you suggest we do when the matter of the Austrian State Treaty comes up? :-)
Why should it come up? Its an historical anachronism. Trump is planning to remove the last US troop from Germany completing the withdrawal of the US from mainline Europe. We are in the fortunate position of being a quiet backwater of less and less significance in world affairs. We should take advantage.
On that basis you should support the Scottish independence and nuclear disarmament.
I do not support Scottish Independence and never will. Nuclear disarmament is something I am more open about, especially if the money was redirected to improving our conventional capability. The need for a strategic nuclear capability (as opposed to tactical capability) really ended in 1989.
As long as Russia has nuclear weapons so should we (Sir Humphrey of course famously said the same about France)
I'm with David. They're a useless geegaw. Can't send them in against something like Coronavirus can we (not that we can of course send conventional forces in either)?
If ourselves and the French gave up nuclear weapons and Putin decided to invade western Europe, there is little we do could to stop him
I don't think Putin has the ability to invade Western Europe, but if he does, I also don't think we would be physically able to use our nuclear deterrent on him, because I don't think America would let us. As I've said before, we *know* that without their cooperation our deterrent would be useless in weeks. What we don't *know* publicly is (I think) that if we did fire one off, they would have the ability to kill it. I have no idea if it's connected, but when Theresa May tested Trident, I have a recollection that the missile unexpectedly just turned tail and headed for Florida.
Your first statement is dangerously casual and the thought fills me with dread.
If Putin decided he wanted the Baltic States back and while he was at it fancied Spain and Portugal too, he has the personnel, the equipment and the firepower to march through Central Western Europe like a knife through butter. Why he has resisted in the past is the expectation that the USA would rain fire and brimstone across his empire. If the POTUS is indeed in Putin's pocket we are buggered.
Just one question - why?
USSR vs. the West was a clash of ideologies. The USSR would have gladly forcibly subjected the world to Marxist communism if the opportunity arose, so I can believe they would want to invade Western Europe. Putin's Russia to invade - why? Not enough land mass? Not enough natural resources?
I see post-communist Russia's geopolitical aims as fairly consistent - de facto or de jure rule over all its bordering entities, as a strong defence against encroachment by the US and allies. Ruthless in crushing both internal and external threats. To do this they use fair means or foul. All their behaviour over recent years sits quite comfortably within that narrative.
What will amuse me is if China becomes the new enemy and it becomes necessary to schmooze Russia again. How quickly the gay activists, Ukrainians, Syrian rebels etc. will be dropped and forgotten when there's a new bogeyman du jour.
China is less of a direct threat to us in terms of invasion (beyond covid of course), it is on the other side of the world and a different continent and India and Japan in any case would be more viable allies against Beijing than Russia
Almost all were recent deaths but still much down on previous Saturdays.
Had a quick look for myself, down almost 50% relative to the 146 reported last Saturday. The death figures are still in steady downward decline.
It would be good if those people who loudly predicted a second wave would be caused by the VE bank holiday weekend would acknowledge their mistake and show some relief at being wrong.
I was nervous about the VE shenanigans, though I don't think I said it would lead to a second wave.
I am relieved that it hasn't, and it's another piece of evidence for outdoor activity being much safer than indoors. I think there's no justification on any further restrictions on outdoor activities - with the possible exception of communal singing, chanting, etc. Loud protests and sport crowds might be a risk.
If it is as the recent paper suggests, 20% of people are responsible for 80% of the spread, i was guess having 10 people meet outside for a cup of tea and then back in the house for the next 2 weeks limits the potential spread somewhat
10,000 people, from all over London. all crammed together for hours on end, screaming and shouting, is different level of potential risk.
Almost all were recent deaths but still much down on previous Saturdays.
The total for the last five days was 69.
Compared with 100, 143, 167, 174 (reduced by bank holiday reporting) and 316 for the Saturdays in May.
Is there any indication that better treatment is improving the death rate I wonder? Is is it all down to reduced infection rate?
No reason to think it isn't essentially infection rate. Numbers have been falling by 25 - 30 % a week since the peak. One of the tricky things in the next couple of months is going to be distinguishing changes of trend from random noise.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
Ultimately the cost of staying in the EU was eventually becoming part of the USE. The path for the UK is to be a nuclear version of Canada or Australia. The idea that we could still be one of the two world powers was never going to hold and the idea that we could stamp our authority within the EU was also an idea that was never going to hold.
Brexit was an inevitability given the alternative. Already we're seeing a renewed push for "more Europe" from the commission. If we'd voted to remain it would have been impossible to oppose the Corona bailout and we'd have been on the hook for hundreds of billions as the second largest economy and holding the ability to print our own money.
The option of fully embracing European integration was and remains a viable alternative. In the long run there is no alternative.
There is absolutely an alternative, not being in it.
It's not sustainable. The UK isn't a Canada or an Australia, or even a Switzerland.
I think it already is, so are all of the European countries. A bunch of second and third rank countries coming together is still just a bunch of second and third rank countries. It does nothing to project more than the sum of the total.
I meant it in a different sense. The UK is the relic of a faded empire. If we hadn't begun detaching ourselves from the EU after the introduction of the Euro, then it may have held together in its present form, as European borders would have held less and less significance to the lives of ordinary people. Brexit puts the integrity of the UK at stake in a big way.
The UK was finished off by the lop-sided New Labour devolution scheme, a masterpiece of strategic political ineptitude which sundered Blair's country and his party along with it.
All that saved the Union in 2014 was Scotland's budget deficit and the financing thereof by the English taxpayer. The moment that Scottish public spending ceases to be critically reliant on subsidy is the moment that the Scottish electorate will go stampeding for the exit door. It's merely a matter of time.
That really is an insult to the 2m+ Scots who were proud to call themselves British and voted accordingly.
All the people who voted No in 2014 were proud to call themselves British? Somewhat roseate (& blue & white) tinted specs I think. On that basis the most recent poll suggests close to 400k of them have stopped being proud.
But according to that polling company you won in 2014 so this is academic. What I think would be obvious is that without the resources being a part of a larger unit with the ability to print its own money has been absolutely key to our coping with the economic damage of CV and we would have been in a very, very bad place had the vote in 2014 gone differently.
Off topic - masks. I finally made myself a mask which I wore for the first time today.
This was a monumental hassle - mostly because of adjusting it so that it didn't fog up my glasses.
It reminded me of how I felt when I first used a condom. I know it's the right thing to do. I know it's important. I think that people who refuse to wear one for superficial reasons are acting irresponsibly. And yet I hated it and really don't want to do it.
I'll accept pretty much any practical alternative action that means I don't have to wear a mask.
Use micropore tape along the upper border, it will keep your glasses clear, and you won't need to touch your mask to reposition it.
An encouraging development for Biden (and contra to what some on here had previously speculated):
Democrats discover a new team player: Bernie Sanders https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/06/bernie-sanders-democrats-2020-304277 ... Some of Sanders’ allies, in explaining why they formed outside groups to help elect Biden but declined to go that far for Clinton, said they did not expect Trump to win in 2016.
“Many of us who believed that Donald Trump could win in 2016 also believed that Hillary Clinton would win. And that has proven to not be the case,” said Jeff Weaver, Sanders’ longtime adviser and friend who created America’s Progressive Promise, a pro-Biden super PAC. “I feel a great responsibility having worked in this progressive space for 35 years — my entire adult life — at the side of Bernie Sanders to make sure that we stop what is happening in this country.”...
I expect there is quite a lot of that kind of “fool me once...” sentiment out there about Trump.
Yep, easy to forget that Trump was to some extent an unknown quantity, particularly the quantity that suggested he could be POTUS. We all know about him now.
This is at the heart of why I expect a clear defeat for him.
Group 1 - Voted for him in 2016 with a certain reluctance but having experienced 4 years of him do not do so in 2020.
Group 2 - Did not support him in 2016 but are sufficiently impressed by the reality of him in office to vote for him in 2020.
Group 1 will imo be bigger than Group 2.
I predicted that Trump would either be very good or very bad.
You were at least on the right lines with "very bad".
I must admit he is surprised even me on the downside.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
Ultimately the cost of staying in the EU was eventually becoming part of the USE. The path for the UK is to be a nuclear version of Canada or Australia. The idea that we could still be one of the two world powers was never going to hold and the idea that we could stamp our authority within the EU was also an idea that was never going to hold.
Brexit was an inevitability given the alternative. Already we're seeing a renewed push for "more Europe" from the commission. If we'd voted to remain it would have been impossible to oppose the Corona bailout and we'd have been on the hook for hundreds of billions as the second largest economy and holding the ability to print our own money.
The option of fully embracing European integration was and remains a viable alternative. In the long run there is no alternative.
There is absolutely an alternative, not being in it.
It's not sustainable. The UK isn't a Canada or an Australia, or even a Switzerland.
The UK can operate just fine outside the EU. It's been going strong for over 300 years.
Looks like antibody testing has reached capacity now, running at the full 41k/day. Will take a while to get through all NHS staff at that rate.
Mailed tests at 90k again, still not seen a good explanation where those are going - that number doubled overnight a few days back, which perhaps suggests they're being used for some new centrally directed programme.
Boris drops 20 points in ConHome survey to fourth behind Sunak, Gove, and Raab
Time for him to consider standing down and spending time with Carrie and his young son ?
My nose tells me that Sunak would win MPs and also a membership vote.
Gove and Raab would be clear also-rans.
He doesn't have enough experience. One budget isn't enough for a chancellor to stake a claim on being PM. I'd be betting on Gove or even someone like Javid. It also depends on the timing. If it's after January 2021 then it opens up options like Hunt who would be ahead of Sunak IMO.
How much experience did John Major have? He turned out OK under very trying circumstances....
IPSOS_MORI had Kinnock rated more inexperienced than Major by 29-24 in their last poll before the 92 GE. Previously they had been tied
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
Ultimately the cost of staying in the EU was eventually becoming part of the USE. The path for the UK is to be a nuclear version of Canada or Australia. The idea that we could still be one of the two world powers was never going to hold and the idea that we could stamp our authority within the EU was also an idea that was never going to hold.
Brexit was an inevitability given the alternative. Already we're seeing a renewed push for "more Europe" from the commission. If we'd voted to remain it would have been impossible to oppose the Corona bailout and we'd have been on the hook for hundreds of billions as the second largest economy and holding the ability to print our own money.
The option of fully embracing European integration was and remains a viable alternative. In the long run there is no alternative.
There is absolutely an alternative, not being in it.
It's not sustainable. The UK isn't a Canada or an Australia, or even a Switzerland.
The UK can operate just fine outside the EU. It's been going strong for over 300 years.
We're approaching the centenary of its partial dissolution. Hardly going strong.
And now we cross to an area where R could be above 1....
More now from from the Black Lives Matter protest in Manchester - and a BBC reporter at the scene around Piccadilly Gardens estimates that the crowd has reached 15,000 and is still growing.
Almost all were recent deaths but still much down on previous Saturdays.
Had a quick look for myself, down almost 50% relative to the 146 reported last Saturday. The death figures are still in steady downward decline.
It would be good if those people who loudly predicted a second wave would be caused by the VE bank holiday weekend would acknowledge their mistake and show some relief at being wrong.
I was nervous about the VE shenanigans, though I don't think I said it would lead to a second wave.
I am relieved that it hasn't, and it's another piece of evidence for outdoor activity being much safer than indoors. I think there's no justification on any further restrictions on outdoor activities - with the possible exception of communal singing, chanting, etc. Loud protests and sport crowds might be a risk.
VE day was 0.1% of what we’ve seen in the last week.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
y.
As a matter of interest - what do you suggest we do when the matter of the Austrian State Treaty comes up? :-)
Why should it come up? Its an historical anachronism. Trump is planning to remove the last US troop from Germany completing the withdrawal of the US from mainline Europe. We are in the fortunate position of being a quiet backwater of less and less significance in world affairs. We should take advantage.
O
As long as Russia has nuclear weapons so should we (Sir Humphrey of course famously said the same about France)
I'm with David. They're a useless geegaw. Can't send them in against something like Coronavirus can we (not that we can of course send conventional forces in either)?
If ourselves and the French gave up nuclear weapons and Putin decided to invade western Europe, there is little we do could to stop him
Rubbish. The Russian army has barely held its own against largely untrained Ukrainian militias.
Russian forces only fully invaded Crimea which are now under Russian control, the rest was support for pro Russian separatists.
The Russian armed forces are 900,000 strong, France and the UK's combined only around 350,000 strong
I think that they would struggle to beat Poland.
Russia could probably put together an army of 50-60,000 to mount an invasion, outside of its borders. That would not get them very far into Europe.
And now we cross to an area where R could be above 1....
More now from from the Black Lives Matter protest in Manchester - and a BBC reporter at the scene around Piccadilly Gardens estimates that the crowd has reached 15,000 and is still growing.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
Ultimately the cost of staying in the EU was eventually becoming part of the USE. The path for the UK is to be a nuclear version of Canada or Australia. The idea that we could still be one of the two world powers was never going to hold and the idea that we could stamp our authority within the EU was also an idea that was never going to hold.
Brexit was an inevitability given the alternative. Already we're seeing a renewed push for "more Europe" from the commission. If we'd voted to remain it would have been impossible to oppose the Corona bailout and we'd have been on the hook for hundreds of billions as the second largest economy and holding the ability to print our own money.
The option of fully embracing European integration was and remains a viable alternative. In the long run there is no alternative.
There is absolutely an alternative, not being in it.
It's not sustainable. The UK isn't a Canada or an Australia, or even a Switzerland.
I think it already is, so are all of the European countries. A bunch of second and third rank countries coming together is still just a bunch of second and third rank countries. It does nothing to project more than the sum of the total.
I meant it in a different sense. The UK is the relic of a faded empire. If we hadn't begun detaching ourselves from the EU after the introduction of the Euro, then it may have held together in its present form, as European borders would have held less and less significance to the lives of ordinary people. Brexit puts the integrity of the UK at stake in a big way.
The UK was finished off by the lop-sided New Labour devolution scheme, a masterpiece of strategic political ineptitude which sundered Blair's country and his party along with it.
All that saved the Union in 2014 was Scotland's budget deficit and the financing thereof by the English taxpayer. The moment that Scottish public spending ceases to be critically reliant on subsidy is the moment that the Scottish electorate will go stampeding for the exit door. It's merely a matter of time.
That really is an insult to the 2m+ Scots who were proud to call themselves British and voted accordingly.
Oh, I dare say there's a minority who cared but don't go pretending that money wasn't the governing factor for the balancing portion of the electorate in the middle.
The Union is primarily now a transactional arrangement in which politicians in London, who are worried about stuff like their ability to strut the international stage, keep a seat on the Security Council and wave about their nuclear missiles, hose Scotland down with cash to buy its loyalty.
The Scottish people thus get extra goodies like freebie prescriptions, university tuition fees and personal care for the aged without having to cough up for them. All the English people get is the bill.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
No. Just a bit weird is a flattering description. Imbecilic is a more fitting one.
The British protests essentially say that dicriumination and indifference towards black people is endemic in the UK as well, and the US events are simply the latest example of a general phenomenon. The examples that a couple of us have given here of black drivers being routinely stopped by police and asked to show proof that they have a right to drive their cars are a small illustration. I could give more, but suspect you would either not believe me or dismiss them as anecdotal.
I think the demos are a stretch, because the position in the US is xlearly worse, but they're not imbecilic, and I know two people who have said that it's made them have a think about their own atttitudes and how they might improve them.
Perhaps, but unlike the UK version of Black Lives Matter, I'm unpersuaded that a man like Mark Duggan should be considered a martyr, or that we should be ending the deportation of illegal immigrants.
Comments
Experts told UK to boost test-and-trace in February, papers show
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/05/experts-told-uk-to-boost-covid-19-test-and-trace-in-february-papers-show
The government was advised to scale up its coronavirus test-and-trace effort using a call centre system as early as February, government documents show, raising questions about why the system launched last week as lockdown measures were eased is still not fully operational.
A report presented to the government’s Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) on 12 February, when the UK was still actively tracing contacts of those infected with Covid-19, recommended a 10-fold increase in Public Health England’s test-and-trace capacity in order to extend the number of cases that could be managed.
“Scaling this response up, using for example a call-centre type system to support the local PHE teams, should be possible and feasible,” the experts from Public Health England and the University of Cambridge recommended.
However, this suggestion does not appear to have been pursued and contact tracing was abandoned in March.
Brexit was an inevitability given the alternative. Already we're seeing a renewed push for "more Europe" from the commission. If we'd voted to remain it would have been impossible to oppose the Corona bailout and we'd have been on the hook for hundreds of billions as the second largest economy and holding the ability to print our own money.
Being Anti-racist is a more active position than being colour blind. It means challenging racism, both direct and indirect when we encounter it, and that includes a certain amount of uncomfortable self reflection on our own attitudes.
It's like the statement "I'm not as clever as I think I am."
Hall of mirrors.
He is in dire straits if he is overtaken by nonentity Leonard next May.
You're right that being an 'Anti' of anything implies a much more active approach than merely lacking prejudice. That's why it's so harmful. It involves searching for the thing you're 'anti' and searching inevitably leads to finding. You end up flagellating yourself and sitting in judgement over others. Like any mental blight, it will be a faithless friend, and the things you do to appease it will never be enough.
To blame SAGE for all the government’s mistakes does not seem a supportable position to take, however imperfect SAGE has been (very).
The 1707 Union also came before the US War of Independence and before India, Australia, New Zealand and the African colonies were colonised by Britain
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/27/gaps-sage-scientific-body-scientists-medical
https://twitter.com/ThkBleu/status/1269254786978701312
The absence of pepper spray and kettling helps, of course.
But the lack of overall testing throughout March and April was a major failing.
All that saved the Union in 2014 was Scotland's budget deficit and the financing thereof by the English taxpayer. The moment that Scottish public spending ceases to be critically reliant on subsidy is the moment that the Scottish electorate will go stampeding for the exit door. It's merely a matter of time.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/
Almost all were recent deaths but still much down on previous Saturdays.
Group 1 - Voted for him in 2016 with a certain reluctance but having experienced 4 years of him do not do so in 2020.
Group 2 - Did not support him in 2016 but are sufficiently impressed by the reality of him in office to vote for him in 2020.
Group 1 will imo be bigger than Group 2.
https://twitter.com/murphymike/status/1268997121446801408
I’m not really defending SAGE - they’ve made some howlers.
But they haven’t always been wrong, and government has made mistakes quite independently of scientific advice.
If Putin decided he wanted the Baltic States back and while he was at it fancied Spain and Portugal too, he has the personnel, the equipment and the firepower to march through Central Western Europe like a knife through butter. Why he has resisted in the past is the expectation that the USA would rain fire and brimstone across his empire. If the POTUS is indeed in Putin's pocket we are buggered.
The Russian armed forces are 900,000 strong, France and the UK's combined only around 350,000 strong
Compared with 100, 143, 167, 174 (reduced by bank holiday reporting) and 316 for the Saturdays in May.
From his pov obvs.
Firstly, it would drive Democrats nuts. This is useful as a distraction as much as anything. Secondly it's a step to normalizing the idea of a Trump third term - whether that's ultimately achieved by another route or not. Thirdly, it acts as a loyalty test for Republicans - which could be helpful in terms of support for a Trump-friendly candidate in 2024. Finally it acts as a mobilising tool for the midterms (though this is a double-edged effect).
https://twitter.com/coolsdot/status/1269261044221743104?s=19
This was a monumental hassle - mostly because of adjusting it so that it didn't fog up my glasses.
It reminded me of how I felt when I first used a condom. I know it's the right thing to do. I know it's important. I think that people who refuse to wear one for superficial reasons are acting irresponsibly. And yet I hated it and really don't want to do it.
I'll accept pretty much any practical alternative action that means I don't have to wear a mask.
USSR vs. the West was a clash of ideologies. The USSR would have gladly forcibly subjected the world to Marxist communism if the opportunity arose, so I can believe they would want to invade Western Europe. Putin's Russia to invade - why? Not enough land mass? Not enough natural resources?
I see post-communist Russia's geopolitical aims as fairly consistent - de facto or de jure rule over all its bordering entities, as a strong defence against encroachment by the US and allies. Ruthless in crushing both internal and external threats. To do this they use fair means or foul. All their behaviour over recent years sits quite comfortably within that narrative.
What will amuse me is if China becomes the new enemy and it becomes necessary to schmooze Russia again. How quickly the gay activists, Ukrainians, Syrian rebels etc. will be dropped and forgotten when there's a new bogeyman du jour.
There is a virus greater than Covid-19 and it’s called racism.
Desk, head, thud....when your granddad is in ICU with coronavirus, try telling him that.
I am relieved that it hasn't, and it's another piece of evidence for outdoor activity being much safer than indoors. I think there's no justification on any further restrictions on outdoor activities - with the possible exception of communal singing, chanting, etc. Loud protests and sport crowds might be a risk.
For example -
Mr A - a politician who has no racist feelings or beliefs but who dog whistles like crazy to attract the racist vote.
Mr B - a politician who believes in white supremacy but never says so, never writes so, never indicates so externally in any way.
A is a racist. B is not.
10,000 people, from all over London. all crammed together for hours on end, screaming and shouting, is different level of potential risk.
I do it every day...
I must admit he is surprised even me on the downside.
Mailed tests at 90k again, still not seen a good explanation where those are going - that number doubled overnight a few days back, which perhaps suggests they're being used for some new centrally directed programme.
More now from from the Black Lives Matter protest in Manchester - and a BBC reporter at the scene around Piccadilly Gardens estimates that the crowd has reached 15,000 and is still growing.
The Union is primarily now a transactional arrangement in which politicians in London, who are worried about stuff like their ability to strut the international stage, keep a seat on the Security Council and wave about their nuclear missiles, hose Scotland down with cash to buy its loyalty.
The Scottish people thus get extra goodies like freebie prescriptions, university tuition fees and personal care for the aged without having to cough up for them. All the English people get is the bill.