Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
y.
As a matter of interest - what do you suggest we do when the matter of the Austrian State Treaty comes up? :-)
Why should it come up? Its an historical anachronism. Trump is planning to remove the last US troop from Germany completing the withdrawal of the US from mainline Europe. We are in the fortunate position of being a quiet backwater of less and less significance in world affairs. We should take advantage.
O
As long as Russia has nuclear weapons so should we (Sir Humphrey of course famously said the same about France)
I'm with David. They're a useless geegaw. Can't send them in against something like Coronavirus can we (not that we can of course send conventional forces in either)?
If ourselves and the French gave up nuclear weapons and Putin decided to invade western Europe, there is little we do could to stop him
Rubbish. The Russian army has barely held its own against largely untrained Ukrainian militias.
Russian forces only fully invaded Crimea which are now under Russian control, the rest was support for pro Russian separatists.
The Russian armed forces are 900,000 strong, France and the UK's combined only around 350,000 strong
I think that they would struggle to beat Poland.
Russia could probably put together an army of 50-60,000 to mount an invasion, outside of its borders. That would not get them very far into Europe.
Russia's armies are 900,000 strong, more with reserves ie over 10 times that
Off topic - masks. I finally made myself a mask which I wore for the first time today.
This was a monumental hassle - mostly because of adjusting it so that it didn't fog up my glasses.
It reminded me of how I felt when I first used a condom. I know it's the right thing to do. I know it's important. I think that people who refuse to wear one for superficial reasons are acting irresponsibly. And yet I hated it and really don't want to do it.
I'll accept pretty much any practical alternative action that means I don't have to wear a mask.
Use micropore tape along the upper border, it will keep your glasses clear, and you won't need to touch your mask to reposition it.
I do it every day...
I have a few masks - hospital appt next Tuesday will get the use of one - but I really want my snoods to arrive, which have been on order for some time now.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
Ultimately the cost of staying in the EU was eventually becoming part of the USE. The path for the UK is to be a nuclear version of Canada or Australia. The idea that we could still be one of the two world powers was never going to hold and the idea that we could stamp our authority within the EU was also an idea that was never going to hold.
Brexit was an inevitability given the alternative. Already we're seeing a renewed push for "more Europe" from the commission. If we'd voted to remain it would have been impossible to oppose the Corona bailout and we'd have been on the hook for hundreds of billions as the second largest economy and holding the ability to print our own money.
The option of fully embracing European integration was and remains a viable alternative. In the long run there is no alternative.
There is absolutely an alternative, not being in it.
It's not sustainable. The UK isn't a Canada or an Australia, or even a Switzerland.
I think it already is, so are all of the European countries. A bunch of second and third rank countries coming together is still just a bunch of second and third rank countries. It does nothing to project more than the sum of the total.
I meant it in a different sense. The UK is the relic of a faded empire. If we hadn't begun detaching ourselves from the EU after the introduction of the Euro, then it may have held together in its present form, as European borders would have held less and less significance to the lives of ordinary people. Brexit puts the integrity of the UK at stake in a big way.
The UK was finished off by the lop-sided New Labour devolution scheme, a masterpiece of strategic political ineptitude which sundered Blair's country and his party along with it.
All that saved the Union in 2014 was Scotland's budget deficit and the financing thereof by the English taxpayer. The moment that Scottish public spending ceases to be critically reliant on subsidy is the moment that the Scottish electorate will go stampeding for the exit door. It's merely a matter of time.
That really is an insult to the 2m+ Scots who were proud to call themselves British and voted accordingly.
All the people who voted No in 2014 were proud to call themselves British? Somewhat roseate (& blue & white) tinted specs I think. On that basis the most recent poll suggests close to 400k of them have stopped being proud.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
As a matter of interest - what do you suggest we do when the matter of the Austrian State Treaty comes up? :-)
Why should it come up? Its an historical anachronism. Trump is planning to remove the last US troop from Germany completing the withdrawal of the US from mainline Europe. We are in the fortunate position of being a quiet backwater of less and less significance in world affairs. We should take advantage.
On that basis you should support the Scottish independence and nuclear disarmament.
I do not support Scottish Independence and never will. Nuclear disarmament is something I am more open about, especially if the money was redirected to improving our conventional capability. The need for a strategic nuclear capability (as opposed to tactical capability) really ended in 1989.
As long as Russia has nuclear weapons so should we (Sir Humphrey of course famously said the same about France)
I'm with David. They're a useless geegaw. Can't send them in against something like Coronavirus can we (not that we can of course send conventional forces in either)?
If ourselves and the French gave up nuclear weapons and Putin decided to invade western Europe, there is little we do could to stop him
Rubbish. The Russian army has barely held its own against largely untrained Ukrainian militias.
Russian forces only fully invaded Crimea which are now under Russian control, the rest was support for pro Russian separatists.
The Russian armed forces are 900,000 strong, France and the UK's combined only around 350,000 strong
It's a long way from Moscow to Paris, as Napolean found out.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
No. Just a bit weird is a flattering description. Imbecilic is a more fitting one.
The British protests essentially say that dicriumination and indifference towards black people is endemic in the UK as well, and the US events are simply the latest example of a general phenomenon. The examples that a couple of us have given here of black drivers being routinely stopped by police and asked to show proof that they have a right to drive their cars are a small illustration. I could give more, but suspect you would either not believe me or dismiss them as anecdotal.
I think the demos are a stretch, because the position in the US is xlearly worse, but they're not imbecilic, and I know two people who have said that it's made them have a think about their own attitudes and how they might improve them.
Indifference toward all shades of melanin should be welcomed, not condemned. The general tenor of these protests is to foster a sense of injustice and grievance that is corrosive to the individual in which they are fostered, and has a harmfully divisive effect on society in general. It is a road to nowhere. The risibly imported 'trigger' to the protests is not the only objection.
No, being colour blind is not enough, though clearly better than overt bigotry. Being colour blind means not being willing to accept the history and culture of black people, nor the part of British culture in generating that history.
No, it is enough - not just enough, essential. If somebody remains beholden to an inherited sense of loss, sorrow, and anger, it will poison their life. Telling black people that they've started life with a handicap is simply an appalling and counterproductive thing to do.
Denying or ignoring our role in past oppression of BAME communities is in itself racist.
Being Anti-racist is a more active position than being colour blind. It means challenging racism, both direct and indirect when we encounter it, and that includes a certain amount of uncomfortable self reflection on our own attitudes.
That's right. You can be both racist and an anti-racist. In fact, recognizing and fighting the racism in yourself arguably makes for a more authentic anti-racist than being utterly free of it, as in "colour blind". Which imo very few people of middle age and upwards are. Indeed if I hear the phrase "haven't got a racist bone in my body" from any such individual I tend to form the opposite conclusion.
In my experience people who aren't racist have no need to advertise that fact.
As a general rule I think people should be judged on behaviour only. What they think and feel does not matter if it stays within.
For example -
Mr A - a politician who has no racist feelings or beliefs but who dog whistles like crazy to attract the racist vote.
Mr B - a politician who believes in white supremacy but never says so, never writes so, never indicates so externally in any way.
A is a racist. B is not.
We cannot make windows into souls, we have to rely on what people say and do.
Being aware of how unacceptable certain words or actions are, is a substantial step to changing thoughts.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
No. Just a bit weird is a flattering description. Imbecilic is a more fitting one.
The British protests essentially say that dicriumination and indifference towards black people is endemic in the UK as well, and the US events are simply the latest example of a general phenomenon. The examples that a couple of us have given here of black drivers being routinely stopped by police and asked to show proof that they have a right to drive their cars are a small illustration. I could give more, but suspect you would either not believe me or dismiss them as anecdotal.
I think the demos are a stretch, because the position in the US is xlearly worse, but they're not imbecilic, and I know two people who have said that it's made them have a think about their own attitudes and how they might improve them.
Indifference toward all shades of melanin should be welcomed, not condemned. The general tenor of these protests is to foster a sense of injustice and grievance that is corrosive to the individual in which they are fostered, and has a harmfully divisive effect on society in general. It is a road to nowhere. The risibly imported 'trigger' to the protests is not the only objection.
No, being colour blind is not enough, though clearly better than overt bigotry. Being colour blind means not being willing to accept the history and culture of black people, nor the part of British culture in generating that history.
No, it is enough - not just enough, essential. If somebody remains beholden to an inherited sense of loss, sorrow, and anger, it will poison their life. Telling black people that they've started life with a handicap is simply an appalling and counterproductive thing to do.
Denying or ignoring our role in past oppression of BAME communities is in itself racist.
Being Anti-racist is a more active position than being colour blind. It means challenging racism, both direct and indirect when we encounter it, and that includes a certain amount of uncomfortable self reflection on our own attitudes.
That's right. You can be both racist and an anti-racist. In fact, recognizing and fighting the racism in yourself arguably makes for a more authentic anti-racist than being utterly free of it, as in "colour blind". Which imo very few people of middle age and upwards are. Indeed if I hear the phrase "haven't got a racist bone in my body" from any such individual I tend to form the opposite conclusion.
'I'm not a racist but' has a similar effect on me. See also 'I'm no fan of Trump/Farage/LePen but' etc.
Mmm. I'm afraid that "Trump is a dickhead but ..." is enough to end the date for me. Don't care how well it was going to that point or if she looks like heaven on earth.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
No. Just a bit weird is a flattering description. Imbecilic is a more fitting one.
The British protests essentially say that dicriumination and indifference towards black people is endemic in the UK as well, and the US events are simply the latest example of a general phenomenon. The examples that a couple of us have given here of black drivers being routinely stopped by police and asked to show proof that they have a right to drive their cars are a small illustration. I could give more, but suspect you would either not believe me or dismiss them as anecdotal.
I think the demos are a stretch, because the position in the US is xlearly worse, but they're not imbecilic, and I know two people who have said that it's made them have a think about their own attitudes and how they might improve them.
Indifference toward all shades of melanin should be welcomed, not condemned. The general tenor of these protests is to foster a sense of injustice and grievance that is corrosive to the individual in which they are fostered, and has a harmfully divisive effect on society in general. It is a road to nowhere. The risibly imported 'trigger' to the protests is not the only objection.
No, being colour blind is not enough, though clearly better than overt bigotry. Being colour blind means not being willing to accept the history and culture of black people, nor the part of British culture in generating that history.
No, it is enough - not just enough, essential. If somebody remains beholden to an inherited sense of loss, sorrow, and anger, it will poison their life. Telling black people that they've started life with a handicap is simply an appalling and counterproductive thing to do.
Denying or ignoring our role in past oppression of BAME communities is in itself racist.
Being Anti-racist is a more active position than being colour blind. It means challenging racism, both direct and indirect when we encounter it, and that includes a certain amount of uncomfortable self reflection on our own attitudes.
I have almost completely changed my mind on this. I used to think it was an insult to BAME people to treat them as if they needed sympathy and that was that, but really it's best to acknowledge any grievance they have about past mistreatment as valid, especially as they haven't been properly remedied
What comes to mind is visiting someone whose Grandad had my Grandad over by buying something that meant a lot to him at a price way under it's value, then used the proceeds of the resale to fund his family's future wealth. If I go round to the Grandsons plush apartment while I am renting a bedsit, I am going to be resentful, and I'd expect the grandson to show some acknowledgement/humility
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
y.
As a matter of interest - what do you suggest we do when the matter of the Austrian State Treaty comes up? :-)
Why should it come up? Its an historical anachronism. Trump is planning to remove the last US troop from Germany completing the withdrawal of the US from mainline Europe. We are in the fortunate position of being a quiet backwater of less and less significance in world affairs. We should take advantage.
O
As long as Russia has nuclear weapons so should we (Sir Humphrey of course famously said the same about France)
I'm with David. They're a useless geegaw. Can't send them in against something like Coronavirus can we (not that we can of course send conventional forces in either)?
If ourselves and the French gave up nuclear weapons and Putin decided to invade western Europe, there is little we do could to stop him
Rubbish. The Russian army has barely held its own against largely untrained Ukrainian militias.
Russian forces only fully invaded Crimea which are now under Russian control, the rest was support for pro Russian separatists.
The Russian armed forces are 900,000 strong, France and the UK's combined only around 350,000 strong
I think that they would struggle to beat Poland.
Russia could probably put together an army of 50-60,000 to mount an invasion, outside of its borders. That would not get them very far into Europe.
I agree and only for a relatively short time before their logistical deficiencies made further progress impossible. In the 1970s when my dad was serving in Germany the consensus was that the Soviet Union could roll over western Europe within a couple of weeks. It turned out to be nonsense. Turned out they couldn't even control shipworkers in Gdansk. Looking at their apparent strength on paper is just silly. We only need to look at what happened to the Russian equipped army of Iraq in both gulf wars when facing modern armaments. It was a massacre.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
No. Just a bit weird is a flattering description. Imbecilic is a more fitting one.
The British protests essentially say that dicriumination and indifference towards black people is endemic in the UK as well, and the US events are simply the latest example of a general phenomenon. The examples that a couple of us have given here of black drivers being routinely stopped by police and asked to show proof that they have a right to drive their cars are a small illustration. I could give more, but suspect you would either not believe me or dismiss them as anecdotal.
I think the demos are a stretch, because the position in the US is xlearly worse, but they're not imbecilic, and I know two people who have said that it's made them have a think about their own attitudes and how they might improve them.
Indifference toward all shades of melanin should be welcomed, not condemned. The general tenor of these protests is to foster a sense of injustice and grievance that is corrosive to the individual in which they are fostered, and has a harmfully divisive effect on society in general. It is a road to nowhere. The risibly imported 'trigger' to the protests is not the only objection.
No, being colour blind is not enough, though clearly better than overt bigotry. Being colour blind means not being willing to accept the history and culture of black people, nor the part of British culture in generating that history.
No, it is enough - not just enough, essential. If somebody remains beholden to an inherited sense of loss, sorrow, and anger, it will poison their life. Telling black people that they've started life with a handicap is simply an appalling and counterproductive thing to do.
Denying or ignoring our role in past oppression of BAME communities is in itself racist.
Being Anti-racist is a more active position than being colour blind. It means challenging racism, both direct and indirect when we encounter it, and that includes a certain amount of uncomfortable self reflection on our own attitudes.
I have almost completely changed my mind on this. I used to think it was an insult to BAME people to treat them as if they needed sympathy and that was that, but really it's best to acknowledge any grievance they have about past mistreatment as valid, especially as they haven't been properly remedied
What come s to mind is visiting someone whose Grandad had my Grandad over by buying something that meant a lot to him at a price way under it's value, then used the proceeds of the resale to fund his family's future wealth. If I go round to the Grandsons plush apartment while I am renting a bedsit, i am going to be resentful
With very few changes, my father had a very similar experience to that!
I bet the Chinese are pointing and laughing at the west's behaviour over the past 2 weeks.
While they let covid spread without warning the west and are crushing dissent in Hong Kong.
They can laugh all they want, the day of reckoning is coming for Beijing, the USA, Japan, India, South Korea, Brazil, western Europe, Australia, Canada and New Zealand all now see China as a foe after recent events.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
No. Just a bit weird is a flattering description. Imbecilic is a more fitting one.
The British protests essentially say that dicriumination and indifference towards black people is endemic in the UK as well, and the US events are simply the latest example of a general phenomenon. The examples that a couple of us have given here of black drivers being routinely stopped by police and asked to show proof that they have a right to drive their cars are a small illustration. I could give more, but suspect you would either not believe me or dismiss them as anecdotal.
I think the demos are a stretch, because the position in the US is xlearly worse, but they're not imbecilic, and I know two people who have said that it's made them have a think about their own attitudes and how they might improve them.
Indifference toward all shades of melanin should be welcomed, not condemned. The general tenor of these protests is to foster a sense of injustice and grievance that is corrosive to the individual in which they are fostered, and has a harmfully divisive effect on society in general. It is a road to nowhere. The risibly imported 'trigger' to the protests is not the only objection.
No, being colour blind is not enough, though clearly better than overt bigotry. Being colour blind means not being willing to accept the history and culture of black people, nor the part of British culture in generating that history.
No, it is enough - not just enough, essential. If somebody remains beholden to an inherited sense of loss, sorrow, and anger, it will poison their life. Telling black people that they've started life with a handicap is simply an appalling and counterproductive thing to do.
Denying or ignoring our role in past oppression of BAME communities is in itself racist.
Being Anti-racist is a more active position than being colour blind. It means challenging racism, both direct and indirect when we encounter it, and that includes a certain amount of uncomfortable self reflection on our own attitudes.
That's right. You can be both racist and an anti-racist. In fact, recognizing and fighting the racism in yourself arguably makes for a more authentic anti-racist than being utterly free of it, as in "colour blind". Which imo very few people of middle age and upwards are. Indeed if I hear the phrase "haven't got a racist bone in my body" from any such individual I tend to form the opposite conclusion.
In my experience people who aren't racist have no need to advertise that fact.
As a general rule I think people should be judged on behaviour only. What they think and feel does not matter if it stays within.
For example -
Mr A - a politician who has no racist feelings or beliefs but who dog whistles like crazy to attract the racist vote.
Mr B - a politician who believes in white supremacy but never says so, never writes so, never indicates so externally in any way.
A is a racist. B is not.
I would argue actually both are racist, but only one deserves sanctioning.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
Ultimately the cost of staying in the EU was eventually becoming part of the USE. The path for the UK is to be a nuclear version of Canada or Australia. The idea that we could still be one of the two world powers was never going to hold and the idea that we could stamp our authority within the EU was also an idea that was never going to hold.
Brexit was an inevitability given the alternative. Already we're seeing a renewed push for "more Europe" from the commission. If we'd voted to remain it would have been impossible to oppose the Corona bailout and we'd have been on the hook for hundreds of billions as the second largest economy and holding the ability to print our own money.
The option of fully embracing European integration was and remains a viable alternative. In the long run there is no alternative.
There is absolutely an alternative, not being in it.
It's not sustainable. The UK isn't a Canada or an Australia, or even a Switzerland.
I think it already is, so are all of the European countries. A bunch of second and third rank countries coming together is still just a bunch of second and third rank countries. It does nothing to project more than the sum of the total.
I meant it in a different sense. The UK is the relic of a faded empire. If we hadn't begun detaching ourselves from the EU after the introduction of the Euro, then it may have held together in its present form, as European borders would have held less and less significance to the lives of ordinary people. Brexit puts the integrity of the UK at stake in a big way.
The UK was finished off by the lop-sided New Labour devolution scheme, a masterpiece of strategic political ineptitude which sundered Blair's country and his party along with it.
All that saved the Union in 2014 was Scotland's budget deficit and the financing thereof by the English taxpayer. The moment that Scottish public spending ceases to be critically reliant on subsidy is the moment that the Scottish electorate will go stampeding for the exit door. It's merely a matter of time.
That really is an insult to the 2m+ Scots who were proud to call themselves British and voted accordingly.
All the people who voted No in 2014 were proud to call themselves British? Somewhat roseate (& blue & white) tinted specs I think. On that basis the most recent poll suggests close to 400k of them have stopped being proud.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
As a matter of interest - what do you suggest we do when the matter of the Austrian State Treaty comes up? :-)
Why should it come up? Its an historical anachronism. Trump is planning to remove the last US troop from Germany completing the withdrawal of the US from mainline Europe. We are in the fortunate position of being a quiet backwater of less and less significance in world affairs. We should take advantage.
On that basis you should support the Scottish independence and nuclear disarmament.
I do not support Scottish Independence and never will. Nuclear disarmament is something I am more open about, especially if the money was redirected to improving our conventional capability. The need for a strategic nuclear capability (as opposed to tactical capability) really ended in 1989.
As long as Russia has nuclear weapons so should we (Sir Humphrey of course famously said the same about France)
I'm with David. They're a useless geegaw. Can't send them in against something like Coronavirus can we (not that we can of course send conventional forces in either)?
If ourselves and the French gave up nuclear weapons and Putin decided to invade western Europe, there is little we do could to stop him
Rubbish. The Russian army has barely held its own against largely untrained Ukrainian militias.
Russian forces only fully invaded Crimea which are now under Russian control, the rest was support for pro Russian separatists.
The Russian armed forces are 900,000 strong, France and the UK's combined only around 350,000 strong
It's a long way from Moscow to Paris, as Napolean found out.
A Parisian winter is rather milder than a Moscow winter
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
Ultimately the cost of staying in the EU was eventually becoming part of the USE. The path for the UK is to be a nuclear version of Canada or Australia. The idea that we could still be one of the two world powers was never going to hold and the idea that we could stamp our authority within the EU was also an idea that was never going to hold.
Brexit was an inevitability given the alternative. Already we're seeing a renewed push for "more Europe" from the commission. If we'd voted to remain it would have been impossible to oppose the Corona bailout and we'd have been on the hook for hundreds of billions as the second largest economy and holding the ability to print our own money.
The option of fully embracing European integration was and remains a viable alternative. In the long run there is no alternative.
There is absolutely an alternative, not being in it.
It's not sustainable. The UK isn't a Canada or an Australia, or even a Switzerland.
I think it already is, so are all of the European countries. A bunch of second and third rank countries coming together is still just a bunch of second and third rank countries. It does nothing to project more than the sum of the total.
I meant it in a different sense. The UK is the relic of a faded empire. If we hadn't begun detaching ourselves from the EU after the introduction of the Euro, then it may have held together in its present form, as European borders would have held less and less significance to the lives of ordinary people. Brexit puts the integrity of the UK at stake in a big way.
The UK was finished off by the lop-sided New Labour devolution scheme, a masterpiece of strategic political ineptitude which sundered Blair's country and his party along with it.
All that saved the Union in 2014 was Scotland's budget deficit and the financing thereof by the English taxpayer. The moment that Scottish public spending ceases to be critically reliant on subsidy is the moment that the Scottish electorate will go stampeding for the exit door. It's merely a matter of time.
That really is an insult to the 2m+ Scots who were proud to call themselves British and voted accordingly.
All the people who voted No in 2014 were proud to call themselves British? Somewhat roseate (& blue & white) tinted specs I think. On that basis the most recent poll suggests close to 400k of them have stopped being proud.
But according to that polling company you won in 2014 so this is academic. What I think would be obvious is that without the resources being a part of a larger unit with the ability to print its own money has been absolutely key to our coping with the economic damage of CV and we would have been in a very, very bad place had the vote in 2014 gone differently.
Oh dear, I thought you were above going down the (inaccurately) discrediting pollsters road.
Haven't you just trampled over your own 'proud to call themselves British' argument by reverting to economics? Though I recall a similar jumping about could be observed with Better Together.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
Ultimately the cost of staying in the EU was eventually becoming part of the USE. The path for the UK is to be a nuclear version of Canada or Australia. The idea that we could still be one of the two world powers was never going to hold and the idea that we could stamp our authority within the EU was also an idea that was never going to hold.
Brexit was an inevitability given the alternative. Already we're seeing a renewed push for "more Europe" from the commission. If we'd voted to remain it would have been impossible to oppose the Corona bailout and we'd have been on the hook for hundreds of billions as the second largest economy and holding the ability to print our own money.
The option of fully embracing European integration was and remains a viable alternative. In the long run there is no alternative.
There is absolutely an alternative, not being in it.
It's not sustainable. The UK isn't a Canada or an Australia, or even a Switzerland.
The UK can operate just fine outside the EU. It's been going strong for over 300 years.
We're approaching the centenary of its partial dissolution. Hardly going strong.
We know your loyalties lie to Brussels above all else, if you so desperately want to be part of a single European superstate and don't care about the UK why don't you move there?
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
No. Just a bit weird is a flattering description. Imbecilic is a more fitting one.
The British protests essentially say that dicriumination and indifference towards black people is endemic in the UK as well, and the US events are simply the latest example of a general phenomenon. The examples that a couple of us have given here of black drivers being routinely stopped by police and asked to show proof that they have a right to drive their cars are a small illustration. I could give more, but suspect you would either not believe me or dismiss them as anecdotal.
I think the demos are a stretch, because the position in the US is xlearly worse, but they're not imbecilic, and I know two people who have said that it's made them have a think about their own atttitudes and how they might improve them.
Perhaps, but unlike the UK version of Black Lives Matter, I'm unpersuaded that a man like Mark Duggan should be considered a martyr.
I am rather uncomfortable that George Floyd life story is being rewritten. Just ignoring his violent past, that includes sticking a gun to the stomach of a pregnant woman while robbing her, along with a long list of other criminal offenses, and of course was driving around off his tits on fentaynl, meth and weed.
That doesn't excuse the police brutality, and correctly the officers are going to have to answer for their actions in court. And it is an example of a wider systemic issue in the US.
But this rewriting as a good honest family man, who had a few ups and downs is just pure fiction.
Boris drops 20 points in ConHome survey to fourth behind Sunak, Gove, and Raab
Time for him to consider standing down and spending time with Carrie and his young son ?
Given the Tories still have a comfortable poll lead of course not and you omitted to mention Boris still has a +63% rating with ConHome readers
You omitted to mention:
It’s a steep slide for the Prime Minister, who sees his net positive ranking slide from +83 to +63 in one month and loses his place on the podium. This beats his previous low score as Prime Minister, from September, by six points.
Johnson's one asset is he's seen as an election winner - he has no great group of friends in the HoC, just colleagues seizing the main chance for personal advancement. There is no "Johnsonism" to form a coherent rallying point. Once his MPs judge he's gone from an asset to a liability he'll be gone in a trice.
I was interested to see that Mr Carlaw is bottom of the class - apparently not just because of DKs. "Amongst the minority of respondents who have a view on the Scottish leader, his net approval has halved from +23 to +11. His colleagues are reportedly angry at his handling of the Cummings row."
Carlaw is fumbling about in the dark. Nobody in Westminster or Whitehall knows who he is.
He is in dire straits if he is overtaken by nonentity Leonard next May.
Actually, what still puzzles me about that comment is why Mr Carlaw's colleagues are angry at him. Was it because he wasn't quick to condemn Mr Cummings? or to support him? If he condemned Mr C at once, he might as well join Mr Fraser in going for a separate Unionist Party in Scotland and cutting organizational links with the mob in London, ie going back to the pre-1955 arrangement [edit]. If he didn't condemn Mr C (except in the most mealymouthed terms, at least initially) then he was only being a good Unionist in following the Johnsonian party line. It all seems terribly unfair to the poor chap.
My wife and I have been in lockdown since 21st March and only recently were allowed to see our grandchildren in our garden but with no physical contact. Our youngest grandson was in terrible distress as he could not hug his Grandma, and so was she
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
Off topic - masks. I finally made myself a mask which I wore for the first time today.
This was a monumental hassle - mostly because of adjusting it so that it didn't fog up my glasses.
It reminded me of how I felt when I first used a condom. I know it's the right thing to do. I know it's important. I think that people who refuse to wear one for superficial reasons are acting irresponsibly. And yet I hated it and really don't want to do it.
I'll accept pretty much any practical alternative action that means I don't have to wear a mask.
Use micropore tape along the upper border, it will keep your glasses clear, and you won't need to touch your mask to reposition it.
I do it every day...
I have a few masks - hospital appt next Tuesday will get the use of one - but I really want my snoods to arrive, which have been on order for some time now.
I think the instruction for patients to wear masks is a good one, indeed a high proportion do. Not so sure about staff in corridors and other non patient facing areas.
My concern would be that people would not change or remove PPE when leaving patient facing areas, thereby contaminating other areas. The way to prevent this would mean a change of PPE with every move.
Bear in mind that FFP3 masks and even ordinary surgical masks are in short supply. The ones I was using this week were originally expiry dated 2014, overstamped 2019, and again as 2019. Not even a pretence that they are still within date...
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
No. Just a bit weird is a flattering description. Imbecilic is a more fitting one.
The British protests essentially say that dicriumination and indifference towards black people is endemic in the UK as well, and the US events are simply the latest example of a general phenomenon. The examples that a couple of us have given here of black drivers being routinely stopped by police and asked to show proof that they have a right to drive their cars are a small illustration. I could give more, but suspect you would either not believe me or dismiss them as anecdotal.
I think the demos are a stretch, because the position in the US is xlearly worse, but they're not imbecilic, and I know two people who have said that it's made them have a think about their own attitudes and how they might improve them.
Indifference toward all shades of melanin should be welcomed, not condemned. The general tenor of these protests is to foster a sense of injustice and grievance that is corrosive to the individual in which they are fostered, and has a harmfully divisive effect on society in general. It is a road to nowhere. The risibly imported 'trigger' to the protests is not the only objection.
No, being colour blind is not enough, though clearly better than overt bigotry. Being colour blind means not being willing to accept the history and culture of black people, nor the part of British culture in generating that history.
No, it is enough - not just enough, essential. If somebody remains beholden to an inherited sense of loss, sorrow, and anger, it will poison their life. Telling black people that they've started life with a handicap is simply an appalling and counterproductive thing to do.
Denying or ignoring our role in past oppression of BAME communities is in itself racist.
Being Anti-racist is a more active position than being colour blind. It means challenging racism, both direct and indirect when we encounter it, and that includes a certain amount of uncomfortable self reflection on our own attitudes.
That's right. You can be both racist and an anti-racist. In fact, recognizing and fighting the racism in yourself arguably makes for a more authentic anti-racist than being utterly free of it, as in "colour blind". Which imo very few people of middle age and upwards are. Indeed if I hear the phrase "haven't got a racist bone in my body" from any such individual I tend to form the opposite conclusion.
In my experience people who aren't racist have no need to advertise that fact.
As a general rule I think people should be judged on behaviour only. What they think and feel does not matter if it stays within.
For example -
Mr A - a politician who has no racist feelings or beliefs but who dog whistles like crazy to attract the racist vote.
Mr B - a politician who believes in white supremacy but never says so, never writes so, never indicates so externally in any way.
A is a racist. B is not.
Mr A is what Peter Hitchens thinks Enoch Powell was.
If Mr B believed in God rather than White Supremacism, but never says so, never writes so, never indicates so externally in any way. would that mean he wasn't religious?
My wife and I have been in lockdown since 21st March and only recently were allowed to see our grandchildren in our garden but with no physical contact. Our youngest grandson was in terrible distress as he could not hug his Grandma, and so was she
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
I am very concerned for everyone today
And of course the evidence suggests the hardest hit from any outbreak with be BAME individuals.
I understand the authorities unwillingness to cause a confrontation, hoping letting people have a protest will get it out their system. But there events planned for day after day.
My parents like you have been locked away for 3 months. I am going to be extremely pissed if they have to go back to this in a couple of weeks because of this irresponsible behaviour.
My wife and I have been in lockdown since 21st March and only recently were allowed to see our grandchildren in our garden but with no physical contact. Our youngest grandson was in terrible distress as he could not hug his Grandma, and so was she
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
I am very concerned for everyone today
The government has lost its moral authority to lead the lockdown. There is a direct line from Barnard Castle to this.
Totally o/t of course, but knowing the interest in pizza on this forum I've just seen an advert for a pub doing this as a takeaway: 'Mac and cheese pizza with bacon'
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
No. Just a bit weird is a flattering description. Imbecilic is a more fitting one.
The British protests essentially say that dicriumination and indifference towards black people is endemic in the UK as well, and the US events are simply the latest example of a general phenomenon. The examples that a couple of us have given here of black drivers being routinely stopped by police and asked to show proof that they have a right to drive their cars are a small illustration. I could give more, but suspect you would either not believe me or dismiss them as anecdotal.
I think the demos are a stretch, because the position in the US is xlearly worse, but they're not imbecilic, and I know two people who have said that it's made them have a think about their own attitudes and how they might improve them.
Indifference toward all shades of melanin should be welcomed, not condemned. The general tenor of these protests is to foster a sense of injustice and grievance that is corrosive to the individual in which they are fostered, and has a harmfully divisive effect on society in general. It is a road to nowhere. The risibly imported 'trigger' to the protests is not the only objection.
No, being colour blind is not enough, though clearly better than overt bigotry. Being colour blind means not being willing to accept the history and culture of black people, nor the part of British culture in generating that history.
No, it is enough - not just enough, essential. If somebody remains beholden to an inherited sense of loss, sorrow, and anger, it will poison their life. Telling black people that they've started life with a handicap is simply an appalling and counterproductive thing to do.
Denying or ignoring our role in past oppression of BAME communities is in itself racist.
Being Anti-racist is a more active position than being colour blind. It means challenging racism, both direct and indirect when we encounter it, and that includes a certain amount of uncomfortable self reflection on our own attitudes.
That's right. You can be both racist and an anti-racist. In fact, recognizing and fighting the racism in yourself arguably makes for a more authentic anti-racist than being utterly free of it, as in "colour blind". Which imo very few people of middle age and upwards are. Indeed if I hear the phrase "haven't got a racist bone in my body" from any such individual I tend to form the opposite conclusion.
In my experience people who aren't racist have no need to advertise that fact.
As a general rule I think people should be judged on behaviour only. What they think and feel does not matter if it stays within.
For example -
Mr A - a politician who has no racist feelings or beliefs but who dog whistles like crazy to attract the racist vote.
Mr B - a politician who believes in white supremacy but never says so, never writes so, never indicates so externally in any way.
A is a racist. B is not.
I would argue actually both are racist, but only one deserves sanctioning.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
Ultimately the cost of staying in the EU was eventually becoming part of the USE. The path for the UK is to be a nuclear version of Canada or Australia. The idea that we could still be one of the two world powers was never going to hold and the idea that we could stamp our authority within the EU was also an idea that was never going to hold.
Brexit was an inevitability given the alternative. Already we're seeing a renewed push for "more Europe" from the commission. If we'd voted to remain it would have been impossible to oppose the Corona bailout and we'd have been on the hook for hundreds of billions as the second largest economy and holding the ability to print our own money.
The option of fully embracing European integration was and remains a viable alternative. In the long run there is no alternative.
There is absolutely an alternative, not being in it.
It's not sustainable. The UK isn't a Canada or an Australia, or even a Switzerland.
I think it already is, so are all of the European countries. A bunch of second and third rank countries coming together is still just a bunch of second and third rank countries. It does nothing to project more than the sum of the total.
I meant it in a different sense. The UK is the relic of a faded empire. If we hadn't begun detaching ourselves from the EU after the introduction of the Euro, then it may have held together in its present form, as European borders would have held less and less significance to the lives of ordinary people. Brexit puts the integrity of the UK at stake in a big way.
The UK was finished off by the lop-sided New Labour devolution scheme, a masterpiece of strategic political ineptitude which sundered Blair's country and his party along with it.
All that saved the Union in 2014 was Scotland's budget deficit and the financing thereof by the English taxpayer. The moment that Scottish public spending ceases to be critically reliant on subsidy is the moment that the Scottish electorate will go stampeding for the exit door. It's merely a matter of time.
That really is an insult to the 2m+ Scots who were proud to call themselves British and voted accordingly.
Oh, I dare say there's a minority who cared but don't go pretending that money wasn't the governing factor for the balancing portion of the electorate in the middle.
The Union is primarily now a transactional arrangement in which politicians in London, who are worried about stuff like their ability to strut the international stage, keep a seat on the Security Council and wave about their nuclear missiles, hose Scotland down with cash to buy its loyalty.
The Scottish people thus get extra goodies like freebie prescriptions, university tuition fees and personal care for the aged without having to cough up for them. All the English people get is the bill.
To be precise the money Scotland gets for health, education, social care etc is fixed by the Barnett Formula, a process invented and largely sustained by English politicians. How it's spent is the choice of Holyrood politicians, no extra bills are levied on the English or anyone else.
My wife and I have been in lockdown since 21st March and only recently were allowed to see our grandchildren in our garden but with no physical contact. Our youngest grandson was in terrible distress as he could not hug his Grandma, and so was she
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
I am very concerned for everyone today
The government has lost its moral authority to lead the lockdown. There is a direct line from Barnard Castle to this.
Only if you consider the BLM protestors imbeciles. If they had all gone to a remote second home in protest I would agree, but Dominic Cummings didn't invite thousands of people round his parents back garden for a sing song
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
No. Just a bit weird is a flattering description. Imbecilic is a more fitting one.
The British protests essentially say that dicriumination and indifference towards black people is endemic in the UK as well, and the US events are simply the latest example of a general phenomenon. The examples that a couple of us have given here of black drivers being routinely stopped by police and asked to show proof that they have a right to drive their cars are a small illustration. I could give more, but suspect you would either not believe me or dismiss them as anecdotal.
I think the demos are a stretch, because the position in the US is xlearly worse, but they're not imbecilic, and I know two people who have said that it's made them have a think about their own attitudes and how they might improve them.
Indifference toward all shades of melanin should be welcomed, not condemned. The general tenor of these protests is to foster a sense of injustice and grievance that is corrosive to the individual in which they are fostered, and has a harmfully divisive effect on society in general. It is a road to nowhere. The risibly imported 'trigger' to the protests is not the only objection.
No, being colour blind is not enough, though clearly better than overt bigotry. Being colour blind means not being willing to accept the history and culture of black people, nor the part of British culture in generating that history.
No, it is enough - not just enough, essential. If somebody remains beholden to an inherited sense of loss, sorrow, and anger, it will poison their life. Telling black people that they've started life with a handicap is simply an appalling and counterproductive thing to do.
Denying or ignoring our role in past oppression of BAME communities is in itself racist.
Being Anti-racist is a more active position than being colour blind. It means challenging racism, both direct and indirect when we encounter it, and that includes a certain amount of uncomfortable self reflection on our own attitudes.
That's right. You can be both racist and an anti-racist. In fact, recognizing and fighting the racism in yourself arguably makes for a more authentic anti-racist than being utterly free of it, as in "colour blind". Which imo very few people of middle age and upwards are. Indeed if I hear the phrase "haven't got a racist bone in my body" from any such individual I tend to form the opposite conclusion.
In my experience people who aren't racist have no need to advertise that fact.
As a general rule I think people should be judged on behaviour only. What they think and feel does not matter if it stays within.
For example -
Mr A - a politician who has no racist feelings or beliefs but who dog whistles like crazy to attract the racist vote.
Mr B - a politician who believes in white supremacy but never says so, never writes so, never indicates so externally in any way.
A is a racist. B is not.
I would argue actually both are racist, but only one deserves sanctioning.
By their fruits shall ye know them.
By their out-of-the-closet fruitcakery shall ye know them.
Totally o/t of course, but knowing the interest in pizza on this forum I've just seen an advert for a pub doing this as a takeaway: 'Mac and cheese pizza with bacon'
Disgusting. They should be calling it macaroni cheese pizza. We're not in bloody America!
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
Ultimately the cost of staying in the EU was eventually becoming part of the USE. The path for the UK is to be a nuclear version of Canada or Australia. The idea that we could still be one of the two world powers was never going to hold and the idea that we could stamp our authority within the EU was also an idea that was never going to hold.
Brexit was an inevitability given the alternative. Already we're seeing a renewed push for "more Europe" from the commission. If we'd voted to remain it would have been impossible to oppose the Corona bailout and we'd have been on the hook for hundreds of billions as the second largest economy and holding the ability to print our own money.
The option of fully embracing European integration was and remains a viable alternative. In the long run there is no alternative.
There is absolutely an alternative, not being in it.
It's not sustainable. The UK isn't a Canada or an Australia, or even a Switzerland.
I think it already is, so are all of the European countries. A bunch of second and third rank countries coming together is still just a bunch of second and third rank countries. It does nothing to project more than the sum of the total.
I meant it in a different sense. The UK is the relic of a faded empire. If we hadn't begun detaching ourselves from the EU after the introduction of the Euro, then it may have held together in its present form, as European borders would have held less and less significance to the lives of ordinary people. Brexit puts the integrity of the UK at stake in a big way.
The UK was finished off by the lop-sided New Labour devolution scheme, a masterpiece of strategic political ineptitude which sundered Blair's country and his party along with it.
All that saved the Union in 2014 was Scotland's budget deficit and the financing thereof by the English taxpayer. The moment that Scottish public spending ceases to be critically reliant on subsidy is the moment that the Scottish electorate will go stampeding for the exit door. It's merely a matter of time.
That really is an insult to the 2m+ Scots who were proud to call themselves British and voted accordingly.
Oh, I dare say there's a minority who cared but don't go pretending that money wasn't the governing factor for the balancing portion of the electorate in the middle.
The Union is primarily now a transactional arrangement in which politicians in London, who are worried about stuff like their ability to strut the international stage, keep a seat on the Security Council and wave about their nuclear missiles, hose Scotland down with cash to buy its loyalty.
The Scottish people thus get extra goodies like freebie prescriptions, university tuition fees and personal care for the aged without having to cough up for them. All the English people get is the bill.
Actuaslly, those come out of the pro rata budget allocated under Barnett. We just spend it differently to the English. (And much of the prescriptions cost comes out of the savings made on eliminating the bureaucracy.)
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
Ultimately the cost of staying in the EU was eventually becoming part of the USE. The path for the UK is to be a nuclear version of Canada or Australia. The idea that we could still be one of the two world powers was never going to hold and the idea that we could stamp our authority within the EU was also an idea that was never going to hold.
Brexit was an inevitability given the alternative. Already we're seeing a renewed push for "more Europe" from the commission. If we'd voted to remain it would have been impossible to oppose the Corona bailout and we'd have been on the hook for hundreds of billions as the second largest economy and holding the ability to print our own money.
The option of fully embracing European integration was and remains a viable alternative. In the long run there is no alternative.
There is absolutely an alternative, not being in it.
It's not sustainable. The UK isn't a Canada or an Australia, or even a Switzerland.
I think it already is, so are all of the European countries. A bunch of second and third rank countries coming together is still just a bunch of second and third rank countries. It does nothing to project more than the sum of the total.
I meant it in a different sense. The UK is the relic of a faded empire. If we hadn't begun detaching ourselves from the EU after the introduction of the Euro, then it may have held together in its present form, as European borders would have held less and less significance to the lives of ordinary people. Brexit puts the integrity of the UK at stake in a big way.
The UK was finished off by the lop-sided New Labour devolution scheme, a masterpiece of strategic political ineptitude which sundered Blair's country and his party along with it.
All that saved the Union in 2014 was Scotland's budget deficit and the financing thereof by the English taxpayer. The moment that Scottish public spending ceases to be critically reliant on subsidy is the moment that the Scottish electorate will go stampeding for the exit door. It's merely a matter of time.
That really is an insult to the 2m+ Scots who were proud to call themselves British and voted accordingly.
All the people who voted No in 2014 were proud to call themselves British? Somewhat roseate (& blue & white) tinted specs I think. On that basis the most recent poll suggests close to 400k of them have stopped being proud.
But according to that polling company you won in 2014 so this is academic. What I think would be obvious is that without the resources being a part of a larger unit with the ability to print its own money has been absolutely key to our coping with the economic damage of CV and we would have been in a very, very bad place had the vote in 2014 gone differently.
Oh dear, I thought you were above going down the (inaccurately) discrediting pollsters road.
Haven't you just trampled over your own 'proud to call themselves British' argument by reverting to economics? Though I recall a similar jumping about could be observed with Better Together.
The economic security we achieve through the Union is a part of the attraction of it. I don't regard that as jumping about. I cannot speak for all 2m+ that voted no. But those I know are of the same mind and will, if called upon, vote the same way.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
Ultimately the cost of staying in the EU was eventually becoming part of the USE. The path for the UK is to be a nuclear version of Canada or Australia. The idea that we could still be one of the two world powers was never going to hold and the idea that we could stamp our authority within the EU was also an idea that was never going to hold.
Brexit was an inevitability given the alternative. Already we're seeing a renewed push for "more Europe" from the commission. If we'd voted to remain it would have been impossible to oppose the Corona bailout and we'd have been on the hook for hundreds of billions as the second largest economy and holding the ability to print our own money.
The option of fully embracing European integration was and remains a viable alternative. In the long run there is no alternative.
There is absolutely an alternative, not being in it.
It's not sustainable. The UK isn't a Canada or an Australia, or even a Switzerland.
The UK can operate just fine outside the EU. It's been going strong for over 300 years.
We're approaching the centenary of its partial dissolution. Hardly going strong.
We know your loyalties lie to Brussels above all else, if you so desperately want to be part of a single European superstate and don't care about the UK why don't you move there?
Waahey! Hadn't seen one of them for a while, what with everyone occupied with the virus.
My wife and I have been in lockdown since 21st March and only recently were allowed to see our grandchildren in our garden but with no physical contact. Our youngest grandson was in terrible distress as he could not hug his Grandma, and so was she
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
I am very concerned for everyone today
The government has lost its moral authority to lead the lockdown. There is a direct line from Barnard Castle to this.
Only if you consider the BLM protestors imbeciles. If they had all gone to a remote second home in protest I would agree, but Dominic Cummings didn't invite thousands of people round his parents back garden for a sing song
He signalled that lockdown just isn't important enough to keep when you have other priorities. They're taking their cue from him.
My wife and I have been in lockdown since 21st March and only recently were allowed to see our grandchildren in our garden but with no physical contact. Our youngest grandson was in terrible distress as he could not hug his Grandma, and so was she
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
I am very concerned for everyone today
The government has lost its moral authority to lead the lockdown. There is a direct line from Barnard Castle to this.
These protests would be happening regardless of Cummings story. As the signs people are holding say they see racism as a bigger virus than covid.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
No. Just a bit weird is a flattering description. Imbecilic is a more fitting one.
The British protests essentially say that dicriumination and indifference towards black people is endemic in the UK as well, and the US events are simply the latest example of a general phenomenon. The examples that a couple of us have given here of black drivers being routinely stopped by police and asked to show proof that they have a right to drive their cars are a small illustration. I could give more, but suspect you would either not believe me or dismiss them as anecdotal.
I think the demos are a stretch, because the position in the US is xlearly worse, but they're not imbecilic, and I know two people who have said that it's made them have a think about their own attitudes and how they might improve them.
Indifference toward all shades of melanin should be welcomed, not condemned. The general tenor of these protests is to foster a sense of injustice and grievance that is corrosive to the individual in which they are fostered, and has a harmfully divisive effect on society in general. It is a road to nowhere. The risibly imported 'trigger' to the protests is not the only objection.
No, being colour blind is not enough, though clearly better than overt bigotry. Being colour blind means not being willing to accept the history and culture of black people, nor the part of British culture in generating that history.
No, it is enough - not just enough, essential. If somebody remains beholden to an inherited sense of loss, sorrow, and anger, it will poison their life. Telling black people that they've started life with a handicap is simply an appalling and counterproductive thing to do.
Denying or ignoring our role in past oppression of BAME communities is in itself racist.
Being Anti-racist is a more active position than being colour blind. It means challenging racism, both direct and indirect when we encounter it, and that includes a certain amount of uncomfortable self reflection on our own attitudes.
That's right. You can be both racist and an anti-racist. In fact, recognizing and fighting the racism in yourself arguably makes for a more authentic anti-racist than being utterly free of it, as in "colour blind". Which imo very few people of middle age and upwards are. Indeed if I hear the phrase "haven't got a racist bone in my body" from any such individual I tend to form the opposite conclusion.
In my experience people who aren't racist have no need to advertise that fact.
As a general rule I think people should be judged on behaviour only. What they think and feel does not matter if it stays within.
For example -
Mr A - a politician who has no racist feelings or beliefs but who dog whistles like crazy to attract the racist vote.
Mr B - a politician who believes in white supremacy but never says so, never writes so, never indicates so externally in any way.
A is a racist. B is not.
I would argue actually both are racist, but only one deserves sanctioning.
This is getting a bit wormhole but if something remains wholly within does it meaningfully exist without?
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
Ultimately the cost of staying in the EU was eventually becoming part of the USE. The path for the UK is to be a nuclear version of Canada or Australia. The idea that we could still be one of the two world powers was never going to hold and the idea that we could stamp our authority within the EU was also an idea that was never going to hold.
Brexit was an inevitability given the alternative. Already we're seeing a renewed push for "more Europe" from the commission. If we'd voted to remain it would have been impossible to oppose the Corona bailout and we'd have been on the hook for hundreds of billions as the second largest economy and holding the ability to print our own money.
The option of fully embracing European integration was and remains a viable alternative. In the long run there is no alternative.
There is absolutely an alternative, not being in it.
It's not sustainable. The UK isn't a Canada or an Australia, or even a Switzerland.
The UK can operate just fine outside the EU. It's been going strong for over 300 years.
We're approaching the centenary of its partial dissolution. Hardly going strong.
We know your loyalties lie to Brussels above all else, if you so desperately want to be part of a single European superstate and don't care about the UK why don't you move there?
Will you offer this advice to unionists after a united Ireland?
My wife and I have been in lockdown since 21st March and only recently were allowed to see our grandchildren in our garden but with no physical contact. Our youngest grandson was in terrible distress as he could not hug his Grandma, and so was she
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
I am very concerned for everyone today
The government has lost its moral authority to lead the lockdown. There is a direct line from Barnard Castle to this.
These protests would be happening regardless of Cummings story. As the signs people are holding say they see racism as a bigger virus than covid.
I expect they would. But if lockdown hadn't already been trashed by the government, far more people would be considering other ways of protesting here than meeting up in confined spaces and far more people would feel able to point to the responsibilities we have to keep up that good work.
My wife and I have been in lockdown since 21st March and only recently were allowed to see our grandchildren in our garden but with no physical contact. Our youngest grandson was in terrible distress as he could not hug his Grandma, and so was she
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
I am very concerned for everyone today
The government has lost its moral authority to lead the lockdown. There is a direct line from Barnard Castle to this.
Only if you consider the BLM protestors imbeciles. If they had all gone to a remote second home in protest I would agree, but Dominic Cummings didn't invite thousands of people round his parents back garden for a sing song
He signalled that lockdown just isn't important enough to keep when you have other priorities. They're taking their cue from him.
No personal responsibility then? I didn't need the government to tell me not to go and visit my parents.
My wife and I have been in lockdown since 21st March and only recently were allowed to see our grandchildren in our garden but with no physical contact. Our youngest grandson was in terrible distress as he could not hug his Grandma, and so was she
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
I am very concerned for everyone today
The government has lost its moral authority to lead the lockdown. There is a direct line from Barnard Castle to this.
I do not accept that
George Floyd's murder sparking worldwide protests has nothing to do with Cummings
My wife and I have been in lockdown since 21st March and only recently were allowed to see our grandchildren in our garden but with no physical contact. Our youngest grandson was in terrible distress as he could not hug his Grandma, and so was she
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
I am very concerned for everyone today
The government has lost its moral authority to lead the lockdown. There is a direct line from Barnard Castle to this.
Only if you consider the BLM protestors imbeciles. If they had all gone to a remote second home in protest I would agree, but Dominic Cummings didn't invite thousands of people round his parents back garden for a sing song
He signalled that lockdown just isn't important enough to keep when you have other priorities. They're taking their cue from him.
No personal responsibility then? I didn't need the government to tell me not to go and visit my parents.
One rule for them, one rule for us.
Example is not the main thing in influencing others. It is the only thing.
My wife and I have been in lockdown since 21st March and only recently were allowed to see our grandchildren in our garden but with no physical contact. Our youngest grandson was in terrible distress as he could not hug his Grandma, and so was she
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
I am very concerned for everyone today
The government has lost its moral authority to lead the lockdown. There is a direct line from Barnard Castle to this.
I do not accept that
George Floyd's murder sparking worldwide protests has nothing to do with Cummings
And to say anything else is just political bias
Er, you do need to start using full stops - your apparently single sentence now means the opposite of what (I think) you intended.
My wife and I have been in lockdown since 21st March and only recently were allowed to see our grandchildren in our garden but with no physical contact. Our youngest grandson was in terrible distress as he could not hug his Grandma, and so was she
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
I am very concerned for everyone today
The government has lost its moral authority to lead the lockdown. There is a direct line from Barnard Castle to this.
I do not accept that
George Floyd's murder sparking worldwide protests has nothing to do with Cummings
My wife and I have been in lockdown since 21st March and only recently were allowed to see our grandchildren in our garden but with no physical contact. Our youngest grandson was in terrible distress as he could not hug his Grandma, and so was she
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
I am very concerned for everyone today
The government has lost its moral authority to lead the lockdown. There is a direct line from Barnard Castle to this.
Only if you consider the BLM protestors imbeciles. If they had all gone to a remote second home in protest I would agree, but Dominic Cummings didn't invite thousands of people round his parents back garden for a sing song
He signalled that lockdown just isn't important enough to keep when you have other priorities. They're taking their cue from him.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
No. Just a bit weird is a flattering description. Imbecilic is a more fitting one.
The British protests essentially say that dicriumination and indifference towards black people is endemic in the UK as well, and the US events are simply the latest example of a general phenomenon. The examples that a couple of us have given here of black drivers being routinely stopped by police and asked to show proof that they have a right to drive their cars are a small illustration. I could give more, but suspect you would either not believe me or dismiss them as anecdotal.
I think the demos are a stretch, because the position in the US is xlearly worse, but they're not imbecilic, and I know two people who have said that it's made them have a think about their own attitudes and how they might improve them.
Indifference toward all shades of melanin should be welcomed, not condemned. The general tenor of these protests is to foster a sense of injustice and grievance that is corrosive to the individual in which they are fostered, and has a harmfully divisive effect on society in general. It is a road to nowhere. The risibly imported 'trigger' to the protests is not the only objection.
No, being colour blind is not enough, though clearly better than overt bigotry. Being colour blind means not being willing to accept the history and culture of black people, nor the part of British culture in generating that history.
No, it is enough - not just enough, essential. If somebody remains beholden to an inherited sense of loss, sorrow, and anger, it will poison their life. Telling black people that they've started life with a handicap is simply an appalling and counterproductive thing to do.
Denying or ignoring our role in past oppression of BAME communities is in itself racist.
Being Anti-racist is a more active position than being colour blind. It means challenging racism, both direct and indirect when we encounter it, and that includes a certain amount of uncomfortable self reflection on our own attitudes.
That's right. You can be both racist and an anti-racist. In fact, recognizing and fighting the racism in yourself arguably makes for a more authentic anti-racist than being utterly free of it, as in "colour blind". Which imo very few people of middle age and upwards are. Indeed if I hear the phrase "haven't got a racist bone in my body" from any such individual I tend to form the opposite conclusion.
In my experience people who aren't racist have no need to advertise that fact.
As a general rule I think people should be judged on behaviour only. What they think and feel does not matter if it stays within.
For example -
Mr A - a politician who has no racist feelings or beliefs but who dog whistles like crazy to attract the racist vote.
Mr B - a politician who believes in white supremacy but never says so, never writes so, never indicates so externally in any way.
A is a racist. B is not.
I would argue actually both are racist, but only one deserves sanctioning.
This is getting a bit wormhole but if something remains wholly within does it meaningfully exist without?
Ah, Schrodinger’s racism.
The answer is yes, but it is the impact that we have to measure.
From that point of view I would in practice agree with you. My point is however that racist thoughts are still racist. However we - fortunately - do not judge people by what they think, only by what they do.
My wife and I have been in lockdown since 21st March and only recently were allowed to see our grandchildren in our garden but with no physical contact. Our youngest grandson was in terrible distress as he could not hug his Grandma, and so was she
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
I am very concerned for everyone today
The government has lost its moral authority to lead the lockdown. There is a direct line from Barnard Castle to this.
I do not accept that
George Floyd's murder sparking worldwide protests has nothing to do with Cummings
And to say anything else is just political bias
Er, you do need to start using full stops - your apparently single sentence now means the opposite of what (I think) you intended.
My wife and I have been in lockdown since 21st March and only recently were allowed to see our grandchildren in our garden but with no physical contact. Our youngest grandson was in terrible distress as he could not hug his Grandma, and so was she
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
I am very concerned for everyone today
The government has lost its moral authority to lead the lockdown. There is a direct line from Barnard Castle to this.
I do not accept that
George Floyd's murder sparking worldwide protests has nothing to do with Cummings
My wife and I have been in lockdown since 21st March and only recently were allowed to see our grandchildren in our garden but with no physical contact. Our youngest grandson was in terrible distress as he could not hug his Grandma, and so was she
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
I am very concerned for everyone today
The government has lost its moral authority to lead the lockdown. There is a direct line from Barnard Castle to this.
I do not accept that
George Floyd's murder sparking worldwide protests has nothing to do with Cummings
And to say anything else is just political bias
Er, you do need to start using full stops - your apparently single sentence now means the opposite of what (I think) you intended.
My wife and I have been in lockdown since 21st March and only recently were allowed to see our grandchildren in our garden but with no physical contact. Our youngest grandson was in terrible distress as he could not hug his Grandma, and so was she
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
I am very concerned for everyone today
The government has lost its moral authority to lead the lockdown. There is a direct line from Barnard Castle to this.
I do not accept that
George Floyd's murder sparking worldwide protests has nothing to do with Cummings
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
No. Just a bit weird is a flattering description. Imbecilic is a more fitting one.
The British protests essentially say that dicriumination and indifference towards black people is endemic in the UK as well, and the US events are simply the latest example of a general phenomenon. The examples that a couple of us have given here of black drivers being routinely stopped by police and asked to show proof that they have a right to drive their cars are a small illustration. I could give more, but suspect you would either not believe me or dismiss them as anecdotal.
I think the demos are a stretch, because the position in the US is xlearly worse, but they're not imbecilic, and I know two people who have said that it's made them have a think about their own attitudes and how they might improve them.
Indifference toward all shades of melanin should be welcomed, not condemned. The general tenor of these protests is to foster a sense of injustice and grievance that is corrosive to the individual in which they are fostered, and has a harmfully divisive effect on society in general. It is a road to nowhere. The risibly imported 'trigger' to the protests is not the only objection.
No, being colour blind is not enough, though clearly better than overt bigotry. Being colour blind means not being willing to accept the history and culture of black people, nor the part of British culture in generating that history.
No, it is enough - not just enough, essential. If somebody remains beholden to an inherited sense of loss, sorrow, and anger, it will poison their life. Telling black people that they've started life with a handicap is simply an appalling and counterproductive thing to do.
Denying or ignoring our role in past oppression of BAME communities is in itself racist.
Being Anti-racist is a more active position than being colour blind. It means challenging racism, both direct and indirect when we encounter it, and that includes a certain amount of uncomfortable self reflection on our own attitudes.
That's right. You can be both racist and an anti-racist. In fact, recognizing and fighting the racism in yourself arguably makes for a more authentic anti-racist than being utterly free of it, as in "colour blind". Which imo very few people of middle age and upwards are. Indeed if I hear the phrase "haven't got a racist bone in my body" from any such individual I tend to form the opposite conclusion.
In my experience people who aren't racist have no need to advertise that fact.
As a general rule I think people should be judged on behaviour only. What they think and feel does not matter if it stays within.
For example -
Mr A - a politician who has no racist feelings or beliefs but who dog whistles like crazy to attract the racist vote.
Mr B - a politician who believes in white supremacy but never says so, never writes so, never indicates so externally in any way.
A is a racist. B is not.
I would argue actually both are racist, but only one deserves sanctioning.
This is getting a bit wormhole but if something remains wholly within does it meaningfully exist without?
I suppose you can only judge on what's put in front of you. If an impeccably mediocre and uncontroversial politician was discovered to enjoy wearing a bedsheet and pointy white hat while watching Birth of a Nation over & over again in the privacy of their own home, it would probably be game over for them. Until that point, they remain an impeccably mediocre and uncontroversial politician, probaby with a good chance of being in a BJ cabinet.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
Ultimately the cost of staying in the EU was eventually becoming part of the USE. The path for the UK is to be a nuclear version of Canada or Australia. The idea that we could still be one of the two world powers was never going to hold and the idea that we could stamp our authority within the EU was also an idea that was never going to hold.
Brexit was an inevitability given the alternative. Already we're seeing a renewed push for "more Europe" from the commission. If we'd voted to remain it would have been impossible to oppose the Corona bailout and we'd have been on the hook for hundreds of billions as the second largest economy and holding the ability to print our own money.
The option of fully embracing European integration was and remains a viable alternative. In the long run there is no alternative.
There is absolutely an alternative, not being in it.
It's not sustainable. The UK isn't a Canada or an Australia, or even a Switzerland.
I think it already is, so are all of the European countries. A bunch of second and third rank countries coming together is still just a bunch of second and third rank countries. It does nothing to project more than the sum of the total.
I meant it in a different sense. The UK is the relic of a faded empire. If we hadn't begun detaching ourselves from the EU after the introduction of the Euro, then it may have held together in its present form, as European borders would have held less and less significance to the lives of ordinary people. Brexit puts the integrity of the UK at stake in a big way.
The UK was finished off by the lop-sided New Labour devolution scheme, a masterpiece of strategic political ineptitude which sundered Blair's country and his party along with it.
All that saved the Union in 2014 was Scotland's budget deficit and the financing thereof by the English taxpayer. The moment that Scottish public spending ceases to be critically reliant on subsidy is the moment that the Scottish electorate will go stampeding for the exit door. It's merely a matter of time.
That really is an insult to the 2m+ Scots who were proud to call themselves British and voted accordingly.
Oh, I dare say there's a minority who cared but don't go pretending that money wasn't the governing factor for the balancing portion of the electorate in the middle.
The Union is primarily now a transactional arrangement in which politicians in London, who are worried about stuff like their ability to strut the international stage, keep a seat on the Security Council and wave about their nuclear missiles, hose Scotland down with cash to buy its loyalty.
The Scottish people thus get extra goodies like freebie prescriptions, university tuition fees and personal care for the aged without having to cough up for them. All the English people get is the bill.
To be precise the money Scotland gets for health, education, social care etc is fixed by the Barnett Formula, invented and largely sustained by English politicians. How it's spent is the choice of Holyrood politicians, no extra bills are levied on the English or anyone else.
Oh absolutely, but nonetheless the effect of Barnett is exactly as I described. Large fiscal transfers that artificially inflate Scottish public spending, paid for by taxes levied South of the Border.
The 2014 Yes campaign was undone entirely by arguments over money: their opponents majored in hard-to-answer questions over what currency an independent Scotland would use and then, when they started to panic that this might be insufficient, swore that they wouldn't lay a finger on the Barnett formula. It worked. That tells you everything you need to know about the nature of the Union.
My wife and I have been in lockdown since 21st March and only recently were allowed to see our grandchildren in our garden but with no physical contact. Our youngest grandson was in terrible distress as he could not hug his Grandma, and so was she
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
I am very concerned for everyone today
The government has lost its moral authority to lead the lockdown. There is a direct line from Barnard Castle to this.
Quite obviously so. DC is not the only factor in the collapse into chaos of the governments public health policy, but it is a central plank.
Lockdown sceptics should cheer the BLM protests as an important part of normality resuming. More important than pubs or non-essential shops opening in many peoples eyes.
My wife and I have been in lockdown since 21st March and only recently were allowed to see our grandchildren in our garden but with no physical contact. Our youngest grandson was in terrible distress as he could not hug his Grandma, and so was she
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
I am very concerned for everyone today
The government has lost its moral authority to lead the lockdown. There is a direct line from Barnard Castle to this.
I do not accept that
George Floyd's murder sparking worldwide protests has nothing to do with Cummings
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
Ultimately the cost of staying in the EU was eventually becoming part of the USE. The path for the UK is to be a nuclear version of Canada or Australia. The idea that we could still be one of the two world powers was never going to hold and the idea that we could stamp our authority within the EU was also an idea that was never going to hold.
Brexit was an inevitability given the alternative. Already we're seeing a renewed push for "more Europe" from the commission. If we'd voted to remain it would have been impossible to oppose the Corona bailout and we'd have been on the hook for hundreds of billions as the second largest economy and holding the ability to print our own money.
The option of fully embracing European integration was and remains a viable alternative. In the long run there is no alternative.
There is absolutely an alternative, not being in it.
It's not sustainable. The UK isn't a Canada or an Australia, or even a Switzerland.
The UK can operate just fine outside the EU. It's been going strong for over 300 years.
We're approaching the centenary of its partial dissolution. Hardly going strong.
We know your loyalties lie to Brussels above all else, if you so desperately want to be part of a single European superstate and don't care about the UK why don't you move there?
Will you offer this advice to unionists after a united Ireland?
There won't be a united Ireland in my view but if there was it is likely many Unionists in the North would move to mainland Britain (assuming the diehards did not try to declare a UDI for Antrim of course)
My wife and I have been in lockdown since 21st March and only recently were allowed to see our grandchildren in our garden but with no physical contact. Our youngest grandson was in terrible distress as he could not hug his Grandma, and so was she
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
I am very concerned for everyone today
The government has lost its moral authority to lead the lockdown. There is a direct line from Barnard Castle to this.
You must be joking. You can bet that every single person throwing themselves into rammed super-spreader 'activist' events today was absolutely furious at Cummings' minor violation for the sake of his family - hypocritical virtue-signallers that they are...
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
Ultimately the cost of staying in the EU was eventually becoming part of the USE. The path for the UK is to be a nuclear version of Canada or Australia. The idea that we could still be one of the two world powers was never going to hold and the idea that we could stamp our authority within the EU was also an idea that was never going to hold.
Brexit was an inevitability given the alternative. Already we're seeing a renewed push for "more Europe" from the commission. If we'd voted to remain it would have been impossible to oppose the Corona bailout and we'd have been on the hook for hundreds of billions as the second largest economy and holding the ability to print our own money.
The option of fully embracing European integration was and remains a viable alternative. In the long run there is no alternative.
There is absolutely an alternative, not being in it.
It's not sustainable. The UK isn't a Canada or an Australia, or even a Switzerland.
The UK can operate just fine outside the EU. It's been going strong for over 300 years.
We're approaching the centenary of its partial dissolution. Hardly going strong.
We know your loyalties lie to Brussels above all else, if you so desperately want to be part of a single European superstate and don't care about the UK why don't you move there?
Will you offer this advice to unionists after a united Ireland?
There won't be a united Ireland in my view but if there was it is likely many Unionists in the North would move to mainland Britain (assuming the diehards did not try to declare a UDI for Antrim of course)
Shouldn't that be a UDB? A Unilateral Declaration of Britishness.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
Ultimately the cost of staying in the EU was eventually becoming part of the USE. The path for the UK is to be a nuclear version of Canada or Australia. The idea that we could still be one of the two world powers was never going to hold and the idea that we could stamp our authority within the EU was also an idea that was never going to hold.
Brexit was an inevitability given the alternative. Already we're seeing a renewed push for "more Europe" from the commission. If we'd voted to remain it would have been impossible to oppose the Corona bailout and we'd have been on the hook for hundreds of billions as the second largest economy and holding the ability to print our own money.
The option of fully embracing European integration was and remains a viable alternative. In the long run there is no alternative.
There is absolutely an alternative, not being in it.
It's not sustainable. The UK isn't a Canada or an Australia, or even a Switzerland.
I think it already is, so are all of the European countries. A bunch of second and third rank countries coming together is still just a bunch of second and third rank countries. It does nothing to project more than the sum of the total.
I meant it in a different sense. The UK is the relic of a faded empire. If we hadn't begun detaching ourselves from the EU after the introduction of the Euro, then it may have held together in its present form, as European borders would have held less and less significance to the lives of ordinary people. Brexit puts the integrity of the UK at stake in a big way.
The UK was finished off by the lop-sided New Labour devolution scheme, a masterpiece of strategic political ineptitude which sundered Blair's country and his party along with it.
All that saved the Union in 2014 was Scotland's budget deficit and the financing thereof by the English taxpayer. The moment that Scottish public spending ceases to be critically reliant on subsidy is the moment that the Scottish electorate will go stampeding for the exit door. It's merely a matter of time.
That really is an insult to the 2m+ Scots who were proud to call themselves British and voted accordingly.
Oh, I dare say there's a minority who cared but don't go pretending that money wasn't the governing factor for the balancing portion of the electorate in the middle.
The Union is primarily now a transactional arrangement in which politicians in London, who are worried about stuff like their ability to strut the international stage, keep a seat on the Security Council and wave about their nuclear missiles, hose Scotland down with cash to buy its loyalty.
The Scottish people thus get extra goodies like freebie prescriptions, university tuition fees and personal care for the aged without having to cough up for them. All the English people get is the bill.
Actuaslly, those come out of the pro rata budget allocated under Barnett. We just spend it differently to the English. (And much of the prescriptions cost comes out of the savings made on eliminating the bureaucracy.)
It's high time prescription charges were abolished in England, too. They're out of line with the drug cost they were intended to contribute to and act as a severe disincentive to the Just About Managing to seek medical treatment.
My wife and I have been in lockdown since 21st March and only recently were allowed to see our grandchildren in our garden but with no physical contact. Our youngest grandson was in terrible distress as he could not hug his Grandma, and so was she
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
I am very concerned for everyone today
The government has lost its moral authority to lead the lockdown. There is a direct line from Barnard Castle to this.
I do not accept that
George Floyd's murder sparking worldwide protests has nothing to do with Cummings
It's interesting watching clueless people argue with David Paton about statistics.
He pushed "Sweden deaths falling fast" constantly despite being told time and time again he was using heavily lagged data.
Oh, that's disappointing. Paton's usually very good with the stats; Sweden's stats, though, should only be viewed as solid from about 10-14 days ago. They're good at getting the information out there; they're just a bit more lagged than the ONS.
I've been watching the Swedish deaths-per-day and they go like this:
Each colour is a different reporting day; I've gone for dashed lines while the data is very incomplete and semi-dashed lines when it's fairly incomplete.
There's a downward trend, but it's certainly not "falling fast" unless you do take the incomplete data as accurate before it's updated.
My wife and I have been in lockdown since 21st March and only recently were allowed to see our grandchildren in our garden but with no physical contact. Our youngest grandson was in terrible distress as he could not hug his Grandma, and so was she
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
I am very concerned for everyone today
The government has lost its moral authority to lead the lockdown. There is a direct line from Barnard Castle to this.
I do not accept that
George Floyd's murder sparking worldwide protests has nothing to do with Cummings
Exactly and of course in Alastairs view it is because of Cummings.
For an intelligent poster it is bemusing.
The difference is that in Germany the virus is in much better control.
That people feel able to behave like that in the UK is insane, I agree, but it is partly because English and to some extent UK perceptions are being driven by London media, London pols and London stats. And by Mr Cummings adding a great dollop on top.
My wife and I have been in lockdown since 21st March and only recently were allowed to see our grandchildren in our garden but with no physical contact. Our youngest grandson was in terrible distress as he could not hug his Grandma, and so was she
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
I am very concerned for everyone today
The government has lost its moral authority to lead the lockdown. There is a direct line from Barnard Castle to this.
I do not accept that
George Floyd's murder sparking worldwide protests has nothing to do with Cummings
Exactly and of course in Alastairs view it is because of Cummings.
For an intelligent poster it is bemusing.
Big G, how many new cases of Covid-19 were there in Germany today?
And in Britain?
There might lie your answer as to why not restricting protest in Germany makes sense.
But then you would have to confront how appallingly the British government had done in dealing with Covid-19, and that as we have seen before is something you just can't countenance.
My wife and I have been in lockdown since 21st March and only recently were allowed to see our grandchildren in our garden but with no physical contact. Our youngest grandson was in terrible distress as he could not hug his Grandma, and so was she
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
I am very concerned for everyone today
The government has lost its moral authority to lead the lockdown. There is a direct line from Barnard Castle to this.
I do not accept that
George Floyd's murder sparking worldwide protests has nothing to do with Cummings
Exactly and of course in Alastairs view it is because of Cummings.
For an intelligent poster it is bemusing.
Since Cummings, anyone who wishes to ignore the law has a precedent saying that it’s only a guideline and can be set aside if you really want it to be. These people want it to be.
On the authority of the Attorney General, no less.
Is that the only reason lockdown has collapsed? No.
My wife and I have been in lockdown since 21st March and only recently were allowed to see our grandchildren in our garden but with no physical contact. Our youngest grandson was in terrible distress as he could not hug his Grandma, and so was she
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
I am very concerned for everyone today
The government has lost its moral authority to lead the lockdown. There is a direct line from Barnard Castle to this.
These protests would be happening regardless of Cummings story. As the signs people are holding say they see racism as a bigger virus than covid.
I expect they would. But if lockdown hadn't already been trashed by the government, far more people would be considering other ways of protesting here than meeting up in confined spaces and far more people would feel able to point to the responsibilities we have to keep up that good work.
Well they managed "Blackout Tuesday" four days ago, wholly on social media, and very effective.
A load of young people fancied getting out and letting off steam after being locked in for 2 months, and they have what they think is a valid reason, but it's just bullshit. If it were only happening in the UK, blaming Cummings might carry more weight, but it isn't is it?
It's interesting watching clueless people argue with David Paton about statistics.
He pushed "Sweden deaths falling fast" constantly despite being told time and time again he was using heavily lagged data.
Oh, that's disappointing. Paton's usually very good with the stats; Sweden's stats, though, should only be viewed as solid from about 10-14 days ago. They're good at getting the information out there; they're just a bit more lagged than the ONS.
I've been watching the Swedish deaths-per-day and they go like this:
Each colour is a different reporting day; I've gone for dashed lines while the data is very incomplete and semi-dashed lines when it's fairly incomplete.
There's a downward trend, but it's certainly not "falling fast" unless you do take the incomplete data as accurate before it's updated.
Halving time of about 35 days, much longer than ours.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
Ultimately the cost of staying in the EU was eventually becoming part of the USE. The path for the UK is to be a nuclear version of Canada or Australia. The idea that we could still be one of the two world powers was never going to hold and the idea that we could stamp our authority within the EU was also an idea that was never going to hold.
Brexit was an inevitability given the alternative. Already we're seeing a renewed push for "more Europe" from the commission. If we'd voted to remain it would have been impossible to oppose the Corona bailout and we'd have been on the hook for hundreds of billions as the second largest economy and holding the ability to print our own money.
The option of fully embracing European integration was and remains a viable alternative. In the long run there is no alternative.
There is absolutely an alternative, not being in it.
It's not sustainable. The UK isn't a Canada or an Australia, or even a Switzerland.
I think it already is, so are all of the European countries. A bunch of second and third rank countries coming together is still just a bunch of second and third rank countries. It does nothing to project more than the sum of the total.
I meant it in a different sense. The UK is the relic of a faded empire. If we hadn't begun detaching ourselves from the EU after the introduction of the Euro, then it may have held together in its present form, as European borders would have held less and less significance to the lives of ordinary people. Brexit puts the integrity of the UK at stake in a big way.
The UK was finished off by the lop-sided New Labour devolution scheme, a masterpiece of strategic political ineptitude which sundered Blair's country and his party along with it.
All that saved the Union in 2014 was Scotland's budget deficit and the financing thereof by the English taxpayer. The moment that Scottish public spending ceases to be critically reliant on subsidy is the moment that the Scottish electorate will go stampeding for the exit door. It's merely a matter of time.
That really is an insult to the 2m+ Scots who were proud to call themselves British and voted accordingly.
Oh, I dare say there's a minority who cared but don't go pretending that money wasn't the governing factor for the balancing portion of the electorate in the middle.
The Union is primarily now a transactional arrangement in which politicians in London, who are worried about stuff like their ability to strut the international stage, keep a seat on the Security Council and wave about their nuclear missiles, hose Scotland down with cash to buy its loyalty.
The Scottish people thus get extra goodies like freebie prescriptions, university tuition fees and personal care for the aged without having to cough up for them. All the English people get is the bill.
To be precise the money Scotland gets for health, education, social care etc is fixed by the Barnett Formula, invented and largely sustained by English politicians. How it's spent is the choice of Holyrood politicians, no extra bills are levied on the English or anyone else.
Oh absolutely, but nonetheless the effect of Barnett is exactly as I described. Large fiscal transfers that artificially inflate Scottish public spending, paid for by taxes levied South of the Border.
The 2014 Yes campaign was undone entirely by arguments over money: their opponents majored in hard-to-answer questions over what currency an independent Scotland would use and then, when they started to panic that this might be insufficient, swore that they wouldn't lay a finger on the Barnett formula. It worked. That tells you everything you need to know about the nature of the Union.
Paid for by borrowing which is then 'helpfully' lumped onto Scotland's nominal deficit. I agree that that borrowing is serviced by English (and Scottish and Welsh and NI) taxpayers.
I support the only party that wants to end this iniquitous and damaging set up.
My wife and I have been in lockdown since 21st March and only recently were allowed to see our grandchildren in our garden but with no physical contact. Our youngest grandson was in terrible distress as he could not hug his Grandma, and so was she
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
I am very concerned for everyone today
The government has lost its moral authority to lead the lockdown. There is a direct line from Barnard Castle to this.
I do not accept that
George Floyd's murder sparking worldwide protests has nothing to do with Cummings
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
Ultimately the cost of staying in the EU was eventually becoming part of the USE. The path for the UK is to be a nuclear version of Canada or Australia. The idea that we could still be one of the two world powers was never going to hold and the idea that we could stamp our authority within the EU was also an idea that was never going to hold.
Brexit was an inevitability given the alternative. Already we're seeing a renewed push for "more Europe" from the commission. If we'd voted to remain it would have been impossible to oppose the Corona bailout and we'd have been on the hook for hundreds of billions as the second largest economy and holding the ability to print our own money.
The option of fully embracing European integration was and remains a viable alternative. In the long run there is no alternative.
There is absolutely an alternative, not being in it.
It's not sustainable. The UK isn't a Canada or an Australia, or even a Switzerland.
I think it already is, so are all of the European countries. A bunch of second and third rank countries coming together is still just a bunch of second and third rank countries. It does nothing to project more than the sum of the total.
I meant it in a different sense. The UK is the relic of a faded empire. If we hadn't begun detaching ourselves from the EU after the introduction of the Euro, then it may have held together in its present form, as European borders would have held less and less significance to the lives of ordinary people. Brexit puts the integrity of the UK at stake in a big way.
The UK was finished off by the lop-sided New Labour devolution scheme, a masterpiece of strategic political ineptitude which sundered Blair's country and his party along with it.
All that saved the Union in 2014 was Scotland's budget deficit and the financing thereof by the English taxpayer. The moment that Scottish public spending ceases to be critically reliant on subsidy is the moment that the Scottish electorate will go stampeding for the exit door. It's merely a matter of time.
That really is an insult to the 2m+ Scots who were proud to call themselves British and voted accordingly.
Oh, I dare say there's a minority who cared but don't go pretending that money wasn't the governing factor for the balancing portion of the electorate in the middle.
The Union is primarily now a transactional arrangement in which politicians in London, who are worried about stuff like their ability to strut the international stage, keep a seat on the Security Council and wave about their nuclear missiles, hose Scotland down with cash to buy its loyalty.
The Scottish people thus get extra goodies like freebie prescriptions, university tuition fees and personal care for the aged without having to cough up for them. All the English people get is the bill.
Actuaslly, those come out of the pro rata budget allocated under Barnett. We just spend it differently to the English. (And much of the prescriptions cost comes out of the savings made on eliminating the bureaucracy.)
It's high time prescription charges were abolished in England, too. They're out of line with the drug cost they were intended to contribute to and act as a severe disincentive to the Just About Managing to seek medical treatment.
I agree entirely. We have English friends who need to take a number of drugs but cannot afford more than a fraction of the prescriptions recommended by their doctors. And there is the increased cost down the line of failure to treat early.
My wife and I have been in lockdown since 21st March and only recently were allowed to see our grandchildren in our garden but with no physical contact. Our youngest grandson was in terrible distress as he could not hug his Grandma, and so was she
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
I am very concerned for everyone today
The government has lost its moral authority to lead the lockdown. There is a direct line from Barnard Castle to this.
You must be joking. You can bet that every single person throwing themselves into rammed super-spreader 'activist' events today was absolutely furious at Cummings' minor violation for the sake of his family - hypocritical virtue-signallers that they are...
My wife and I have been in lockdown since 21st March and only recently were allowed to see our grandchildren in our garden but with no physical contact. Our youngest grandson was in terrible distress as he could not hug his Grandma, and so was she
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
I am very concerned for everyone today
The government has lost its moral authority to lead the lockdown. There is a direct line from Barnard Castle to this.
I do not accept that
George Floyd's murder sparking worldwide protests has nothing to do with Cummings
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
No. Just a bit weird is a flattering description. Imbecilic is a more fitting one.
The British protests essentially say that dicriumination and indifference towards black people is endemic in the UK as well, and the US events are simply the latest example of a general phenomenon. The examples that a couple of us have given here of black drivers being routinely stopped by police and asked to show proof that they have a right to drive their cars are a small illustration. I could give more, but suspect you would either not believe me or dismiss them as anecdotal.
I think the demos are a stretch, because the position in the US is xlearly worse, but they're not imbecilic, and I know two people who have said that it's made them have a think about their own attitudes and how they might improve them.
Indifference toward all shades of melanin should be welcomed, not condemned. The general tenor of these protests is to foster a sense of injustice and grievance that is corrosive to the individual in which they are fostered, and has a harmfully divisive effect on society in general. It is a road to nowhere. The risibly imported 'trigger' to the protests is not the only objection.
No, being colour blind is not enough, though clearly better than overt bigotry. Being colour blind means not being willing to accept the history and culture of black people, nor the part of British culture in generating that history.
No, it is enough - not just enough, essential. If somebody remains beholden to an inherited sense of loss, sorrow, and anger, it will poison their life. Telling black people that they've started life with a handicap is simply an appalling and counterproductive thing to do.
Denying or ignoring our role in past oppression of BAME communities is in itself racist.
Being Anti-racist is a more active position than being colour blind. It means challenging racism, both direct and indirect when we encounter it, and that includes a certain amount of uncomfortable self reflection on our own attitudes.
That's right. You can be both racist and an anti-racist. In fact, recognizing and fighting the racism in yourself arguably makes for a more authentic anti-racist than being utterly free of it, as in "colour blind". Which imo very few people of middle age and upwards are. Indeed if I hear the phrase "haven't got a racist bone in my body" from any such individual I tend to form the opposite conclusion.
In my experience people who aren't racist have no need to advertise that fact.
As a general rule I think people should be judged on behaviour only. What they think and feel does not matter if it stays within.
For example -
Mr A - a politician who has no racist feelings or beliefs but who dog whistles like crazy to attract the racist vote.
Mr B - a politician who believes in white supremacy but never says so, never writes so, never indicates so externally in any way.
A is a racist. B is not.
Crikey - that`s utilitarianism on speed. I think the opposite. B is a racist, A is not. It`s what you believe inside that matters. I do detect a strong utilitarianism on the left, which I think is a mistake.
My wife and I have been in lockdown since 21st March and only recently were allowed to see our grandchildren in our garden but with no physical contact. Our youngest grandson was in terrible distress as he could not hug his Grandma, and so was she
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
I am very concerned for everyone today
The government has lost its moral authority to lead the lockdown. There is a direct line from Barnard Castle to this.
I do not accept that
George Floyd's murder sparking worldwide protests has nothing to do with Cummings
Exactly and of course in Alastairs view it is because of Cummings.
For an intelligent poster it is bemusing.
The difference is that in Germany the virus is in much better control.
That people feel able to behave like that in the UK is insane, I agree, but it is partly because English and to some extent UK perceptions are being driven by London media, London pols and London stats. And by Mr Cummings adding a great dollop on top.
Sturgeon appealed directly to the Scots yesterday but the idea these demonstrations have a Cummings link is just political posturing
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
No. Just a bit weird is a flattering description. Imbecilic is a more fitting one.
The British protests essentially say that dicriumination and indifference towards black people is endemic in the UK as well, and the US events are simply the latest example of a general phenomenon. The examples that a couple of us have given here of black drivers being routinely stopped by police and asked to show proof that they have a right to drive their cars are a small illustration. I could give more, but suspect you would either not believe me or dismiss them as anecdotal.
I think the demos are a stretch, because the position in the US is xlearly worse, but they're not imbecilic, and I know two people who have said that it's made them have a think about their own attitudes and how they might improve them.
Indifference toward all shades of melanin should be welcomed, not condemned. The general tenor of these protests is to foster a sense of injustice and grievance that is corrosive to the individual in which they are fostered, and has a harmfully divisive effect on society in general. It is a road to nowhere. The risibly imported 'trigger' to the protests is not the only objection.
No, being colour blind is not enough, though clearly better than overt bigotry. Being colour blind means not being willing to accept the history and culture of black people, nor the part of British culture in generating that history.
No, it is enough - not just enough, essential. If somebody remains beholden to an inherited sense of loss, sorrow, and anger, it will poison their life. Telling black people that they've started life with a handicap is simply an appalling and counterproductive thing to do.
Denying or ignoring our role in past oppression of BAME communities is in itself racist.
Being Anti-racist is a more active position than being colour blind. It means challenging racism, both direct and indirect when we encounter it, and that includes a certain amount of uncomfortable self reflection on our own attitudes.
That's right. You can be both racist and an anti-racist. In fact, recognizing and fighting the racism in yourself arguably makes for a more authentic anti-racist than being utterly free of it, as in "colour blind". Which imo very few people of middle age and upwards are. Indeed if I hear the phrase "haven't got a racist bone in my body" from any such individual I tend to form the opposite conclusion.
In my experience people who aren't racist have no need to advertise that fact.
As a general rule I think people should be judged on behaviour only. What they think and feel does not matter if it stays within.
For example -
Mr A - a politician who has no racist feelings or beliefs but who dog whistles like crazy to attract the racist vote.
Mr B - a politician who believes in white supremacy but never says so, never writes so, never indicates so externally in any way.
A is a racist. B is not.
I would argue actually both are racist, but only one deserves sanctioning.
This is getting a bit wormhole but if something remains wholly within does it meaningfully exist without?
Ah, Schrodinger’s racism.
The answer is yes, but it is the impact that we have to measure.
From that point of view I would in practice agree with you. My point is however that racist thoughts are still racist. However we - fortunately - do not judge people by what they think, only by what they do.
It is difficult to believe that such a person could exist. No matter how hard they behaved to not show or act in any racist way, they would still do so because of subconscious activity I would argue. Also why would someone be a racist in thought only. I could understand that being the case in public, but in private?
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
No. Just a bit weird is a flattering description. Imbecilic is a more fitting one.
The British protests essentially say that dicriumination and indifference towards black people is endemic in the UK as well, and the US events are simply the latest example of a general phenomenon. The examples that a couple of us have given here of black drivers being routinely stopped by police and asked to show proof that they have a right to drive their cars are a small illustration. I could give more, but suspect you would either not believe me or dismiss them as anecdotal.
I think the demos are a stretch, because the position in the US is xlearly worse, but they're not imbecilic, and I know two people who have said that it's made them have a think about their own attitudes and how they might improve them.
Indifference toward all shades of melanin should be welcomed, not condemned. The general tenor of these protests is to foster a sense of injustice and grievance that is corrosive to the individual in which they are fostered, and has a harmfully divisive effect on society in general. It is a road to nowhere. The risibly imported 'trigger' to the protests is not the only objection.
No, being colour blind is not enough, though clearly better than overt bigotry. Being colour blind means not being willing to accept the history and culture of black people, nor the part of British culture in generating that history.
No, it is enough - not just enough, essential. If somebody remains beholden to an inherited sense of loss, sorrow, and anger, it will poison their life. Telling black people that they've started life with a handicap is simply an appalling and counterproductive thing to do.
Denying or ignoring our role in past oppression of BAME communities is in itself racist.
Being Anti-racist is a more active position than being colour blind. It means challenging racism, both direct and indirect when we encounter it, and that includes a certain amount of uncomfortable self reflection on our own attitudes.
That's right. You can be both racist and an anti-racist. In fact, recognizing and fighting the racism in yourself arguably makes for a more authentic anti-racist than being utterly free of it, as in "colour blind". Which imo very few people of middle age and upwards are. Indeed if I hear the phrase "haven't got a racist bone in my body" from any such individual I tend to form the opposite conclusion.
In my experience people who aren't racist have no need to advertise that fact.
As a general rule I think people should be judged on behaviour only. What they think and feel does not matter if it stays within.
For example -
Mr A - a politician who has no racist feelings or beliefs but who dog whistles like crazy to attract the racist vote.
Mr B - a politician who believes in white supremacy but never says so, never writes so, never indicates so externally in any way.
A is a racist. B is not.
I would argue actually both are racist, but only one deserves sanctioning.
This is getting a bit wormhole but if something remains wholly within does it meaningfully exist without?
Ah, Schrodinger’s racism.
The answer is yes, but it is the impact that we have to measure.
From that point of view I would in practice agree with you. My point is however that racist thoughts are still racist. However we - fortunately - do not judge people by what they think, only by what they do.
It is difficult to believe that such a person could exist. No matter how hard they behaved to not show or act in any racist way, they would still do so because of subconscious activity I would argue. Also why would someone be a racist in thought only. I could understand that being the case in public, but in private?
Well, yes, but even allowing the theoretical possibility, such a person would still be racist in reality if not racist in action.
My wife and I have been in lockdown since 21st March and only recently were allowed to see our grandchildren in our garden but with no physical contact. Our youngest grandson was in terrible distress as he could not hug his Grandma, and so was she
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
I am very concerned for everyone today
The government has lost its moral authority to lead the lockdown. There is a direct line from Barnard Castle to this.
Quite obviously so. DC is not the only factor in the collapse into chaos of the governments public health policy, but it is a central plank.
Lockdown sceptics should cheer the BLM protests as an important part of normality resuming. More important than pubs or non-essential shops opening in many peoples eyes.
Well I cheer the acceptance that it didn't need to be so harsh all along that the lack of criticism of the protests implies., but I wouldn't classify it as "normality resuming"
My wife and I have been in lockdown since 21st March and only recently were allowed to see our grandchildren in our garden but with no physical contact. Our youngest grandson was in terrible distress as he could not hug his Grandma, and so was she
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
I am very concerned for everyone today
The government has lost its moral authority to lead the lockdown. There is a direct line from Barnard Castle to this.
I do not accept that
George Floyd's murder sparking worldwide protests has nothing to do with Cummings
Exactly and of course in Alastairs view it is because of Cummings.
For an intelligent poster it is bemusing.
The difference is that in Germany the virus is in much better control.
That people feel able to behave like that in the UK is insane, I agree, but it is partly because English and to some extent UK perceptions are being driven by London media, London pols and London stats. And by Mr Cummings adding a great dollop on top.
Sturgeon appealed directly to the Scots yesterday but the idea these demonstrations have a Cummings link is just political posturing
And of course the media who were outraged at cummings and speculating just how many people he could have exposed if he stopped for a whizz at a service station are saying well these are important protests and people are wearing masks so thats ok.
My wife and I have been in lockdown since 21st March and only recently were allowed to see our grandchildren in our garden but with no physical contact. Our youngest grandson was in terrible distress as he could not hug his Grandma, and so was she
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
I am very concerned for everyone today
The government has lost its moral authority to lead the lockdown. There is a direct line from Barnard Castle to this.
I do not accept that
George Floyd's murder sparking worldwide protests has nothing to do with Cummings
Exactly and of course in Alastairs view it is because of Cummings.
For an intelligent poster it is bemusing.
The difference is that in Germany the virus is in much better control.
That people feel able to behave like that in the UK is insane, I agree, but it is partly because English and to some extent UK perceptions are being driven by London media, London pols and London stats. And by Mr Cummings adding a great dollop on top.
Sturgeon appealed directly to the Scots yesterday but the idea these demonstrations have a Cummings link is just political posturing
Not the demos themselves, I entirely agree. But the willingness to go out and migle is a great deal to do with Mr Cummings' and Mr Johnson's libertarianism and unwillingness to be speciesist (ot kingdomist) when it comes to the poor virus.
My wife and I have been in lockdown since 21st March and only recently were allowed to see our grandchildren in our garden but with no physical contact. Our youngest grandson was in terrible distress as he could not hug his Grandma, and so was she
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
I am very concerned for everyone today
The government has lost its moral authority to lead the lockdown. There is a direct line from Barnard Castle to this.
I do not accept that
George Floyd's murder sparking worldwide protests has nothing to do with Cummings
Still the third biggest news story after more than two weeks?
That is not good. If it was going to die away, it would have done so by now.
It's on 6% most-noticed. The crime of the century, the ultimate downfall of Cummings, Boris, Brexit, the universe...
6% noticed it.
Nobody except utter idiots like you is claiming it was the crime of the century. (Incidentally, I note that upthread you finally concede that he broke the regulations, even if you are the last person on Earth who believes his dumb lies about childcare.)
But it should have led to his summary dismissal.
The fact it hasn’t means his story is still running, whereas Duffield’s - which was in many ways equally serious - is not.
(As an aside, if the figures I have seen are correct, County Durham has the highest infection rate of any non-metropolitan area. While I think it probable that has nothing to do with Cummings, it is to put it mildly a most unfortunate coincidence.)
Still the third biggest news story after more than two weeks?
That is not good. If it was going to die away, it would have done so by now.
It's on 6% most-noticed. The crime of the century, the ultimate downfall of Cummings, Boris, Brexit, the universe...
6% noticed it.
There's been nothing new on it this past week, except a couple of science people saying he was a prat. The question doesn't ask whether they remember the story from the previous week.
My wife and I have been in lockdown since 21st March and only recently were allowed to see our grandchildren in our garden but with no physical contact. Our youngest grandson was in terrible distress as he could not hug his Grandma, and so was she
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
I am very concerned for everyone today
The government has lost its moral authority to lead the lockdown. There is a direct line from Barnard Castle to this.
I do not accept that
George Floyd's murder sparking worldwide protests has nothing to do with Cummings
Exactly and of course in Alastairs view it is because of Cummings.
For an intelligent poster it is bemusing.
Big G, how many new cases of Covid-19 were there in Germany today?
And in Britain?
There might lie your answer as to why not restricting protest in Germany makes sense.
But then you would have to confront how appallingly the British government had done in dealing with Covid-19, and that as we have seen before is something you just can't countenance.
Straight answer
Everyone made a serious error treating this as flue and pandemic preparations accordingly
The Cobra meetings agreed policy via Sage and Boris, Sturgeon, Drakesford and Foster all followed the same path in stay at home policy.
Sturgeon has come under fire in most of her press conference and accepts errors were made but hits out at the media and other critics using hindsight
I have no doubt history will not be kind on how the early and critical moments were mishandled, but there are many polticians and advisors who will have to face the facts sometime in the future
My wife and I have been in lockdown since 21st March and only recently were allowed to see our grandchildren in our garden but with no physical contact. Our youngest grandson was in terrible distress as he could not hug his Grandma, and so was she
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
I am very concerned for everyone today
The government has lost its moral authority to lead the lockdown. There is a direct line from Barnard Castle to this.
I do not accept that
George Floyd's murder sparking worldwide protests has nothing to do with Cummings
Exactly and of course in Alastairs view it is because of Cummings.
For an intelligent poster it is bemusing.
Since Cummings, anyone who wishes to ignore the law has a precedent saying that it’s only a guideline and can be set aside if you really want it to be. These people want it to be.
On the authority of the Attorney General, no less.
Is that the only reason lockdown has collapsed? No.
Was it a big factor? Yes.
Strange argument.
There has been a clear distinction between the categories "law" and "guidelines". The regulations are mandatory, the guidelines are advice (they said so in the first 2 paragraphs from way back in March).
I think confusion has been introduced by endless meaningless conversation about "rules", which nobody is clear about.
My wife and I have been in lockdown since 21st March and only recently were allowed to see our grandchildren in our garden but with no physical contact. Our youngest grandson was in terrible distress as he could not hug his Grandma, and so was she
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
I am very concerned for everyone today
The government has lost its moral authority to lead the lockdown. There is a direct line from Barnard Castle to this.
I do not accept that
George Floyd's murder sparking worldwide protests has nothing to do with Cummings
Exactly and of course in Alastairs view it is because of Cummings.
For an intelligent poster it is bemusing.
Since Cummings, anyone who wishes to ignore the law has a precedent saying that it’s only a guideline and can be set aside if you really want it to be. These people want it to be.
On the authority of the Attorney General, no less.
Is that the only reason lockdown has collapsed? No.
Was it a big factor? Yes.
I really respect you and your posts but have to say re the BLM protests it is not a big factor.
It's interesting watching clueless people argue with David Paton about statistics.
He pushed "Sweden deaths falling fast" constantly despite being told time and time again he was using heavily lagged data.
Oh, that's disappointing. Paton's usually very good with the stats; Sweden's stats, though, should only be viewed as solid from about 10-14 days ago. They're good at getting the information out there; they're just a bit more lagged than the ONS.
I've been watching the Swedish deaths-per-day and they go like this:
Each colour is a different reporting day; I've gone for dashed lines while the data is very incomplete and semi-dashed lines when it's fairly incomplete.
There's a downward trend, but it's certainly not "falling fast" unless you do take the incomplete data as accurate before it's updated.
Halving time of about 35 days, much longer than ours.
I suspect similar to ours now that lockdown is effectively over here.
Still the third biggest news story after more than two weeks?
That is not good. If it was going to die away, it would have done so by now.
It's on 6% most-noticed. The crime of the century, the ultimate downfall of Cummings, Boris, Brexit, the universe...
6% noticed it.
Nobody except utter idiots like you is claiming it was the crime of the century. (Incidentally, I note that upthread you finally concede that he broke the regulations, even if you are the last person on Earth who believes his dumb lies about childcare.)
But it should have led to his summary dismissal.
The fact it hasn’t means his story is still running, whereas Duffield’s - which was in many ways equally serious - is not.
(As an aside, if the figures I have seen are correct, County Durham has the highest infection rate of any non-metropolitan area. While I think it probable that has nothing to do with Cummings, it is to put it mildly a most unfortunate coincidence.)
The reason Duffield's story isn't running is because Cummingsgate was a political hit job led by the Blob that hates him for what he did to them in 2016 and 2019. The moment Gardiner and Duffield's far worse transgressions became a story, the Blob ran a million miles in the opposite direction and pretended they'd never heard of lockdown before
There was an interesting comment on the radio this morning about the long-term effects of COVID-19. It implied that we could be looking at hundreds of thousands of people with new chronic health problems, some of them quite serious, and many of them will be relatively young people as it's the immune response doing a lot of the damage.
The assumption that being young, fit, and healthy means that COVID-19 is "just like the flu" may prove to be tragically wrong.
It's interesting watching clueless people argue with David Paton about statistics.
He pushed "Sweden deaths falling fast" constantly despite being told time and time again he was using heavily lagged data.
Oh, that's disappointing. Paton's usually very good with the stats; Sweden's stats, though, should only be viewed as solid from about 10-14 days ago. They're good at getting the information out there; they're just a bit more lagged than the ONS.
I've been watching the Swedish deaths-per-day and they go like this:
Each colour is a different reporting day; I've gone for dashed lines while the data is very incomplete and semi-dashed lines when it's fairly incomplete.
There's a downward trend, but it's certainly not "falling fast" unless you do take the incomplete data as accurate before it's updated.
Halving time of about 35 days, much longer than ours.
I suspect similar to ours now that lockdown is effectively over here.
Are you sure about that? It's still hugely quiet in this area.
There are eg more people planning to go back to work though June / July, but it is all being done slowly and carefully.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
As a matter of interest - what do you suggest we do when the matter of the Austrian State Treaty comes up? :-)
Why should it come up? Its an historical anachronism. Trump is planning to remove the last US troop from Germany completing the withdrawal of the US from mainline Europe. We are in the fortunate position of being a quiet backwater of less and less significance in world affairs. We should take advantage.
On that basis you should support the Scottish independence and nuclear disarmament.
I do not support Scottish Independence and never will. Nuclear disarmament is something I am more open about, especially if the money was redirected to improving our conventional capability. The need for a strategic nuclear capability (as opposed to tactical capability) really ended in 1989.
As long as Russia has nuclear weapons so should we (Sir Humphrey of course famously said the same about France)
I'm with David. They're a useless geegaw. Can't send them in against something like Coronavirus can we (not that we can of course send conventional forces in either)?
If ourselves and the French gave up nuclear weapons and Putin decided to invade western Europe, there is little we do could to stop him
There is an extensive literature concerning a war between Russia and NATO. See for example the books by General Sir John Hackett and General Sir Richard Shirreff.
My wife and I have been in lockdown since 21st March and only recently were allowed to see our grandchildren in our garden but with no physical contact. Our youngest grandson was in terrible distress as he could not hug his Grandma, and so was she
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
I am very concerned for everyone today
The government has lost its moral authority to lead the lockdown. There is a direct line from Barnard Castle to this.
I do not accept that
George Floyd's murder sparking worldwide protests has nothing to do with Cummings
Exactly and of course in Alastairs view it is because of Cummings.
For an intelligent poster it is bemusing.
Since Cummings, anyone who wishes to ignore the law has a precedent saying that it’s only a guideline and can be set aside if you really want it to be. These people want it to be.
On the authority of the Attorney General, no less.
Is that the only reason lockdown has collapsed? No.
Was it a big factor? Yes.
Strange argument.
There has been a clear distinction between the categories "law" and "guidelines". The is mandatory, the guidelines are advice (they said so in the first 2 paragraphs from way back in March).
I think confusion has been introduced by endless meaningless conversation about "rules", which nobody is clear about.
The confusion has been introduced because Cummings patently broke the rules which were:
1) Stay only at your primary residence, and not at a second home; 2) If you have symptoms, stay indoors; 3) If you go out, only go out 14 days after symptoms have subsided.
So he broke all of those, good and hard. Exceptions for childcare don’t apply, because he never tried to find out if he could get childcare in London. (As an aside, that was obviously a lie anyway and the attraction was obviously a bigger house, with a garden.)
But if he is to stay in post, that can’t be admitted, so they have to be retrospectively reinterpreted as guidelines.
These protests, both here, in europe, and worldwide should give a good insight into just how virulent covid is and if no spikes, it is likely lockdown will be over
I think my wife and I will remain in voluntary lockdown anyway for the next two to three weeks
There was an interesting comment on the radio this morning about the long-term effects of COVID-19. It implied that we could be looking at hundreds of thousands of people with new chronic health problems, some of them quite serious, and many of them will be relative young people as it's the immune response doing a lot of the damage.
The assumption that being young, fit, and healthy means that COVID-19 is "just like the flu" may prove to be tragically wrong.
The worst / most misleading initial stat report was 80% only get mild symptoms. The author of the report that is taken from now regrets using it. Mild includes everything up to the worst thing you ever had that didn't require the hospital to save you. On top of that, we now know how this virus can f##k all your vital organs, but i don't think this is widely known.
As you say, i think the public still think that if you aren't old or sick, worst is go to the hospital, have a spot of oxygen and back to normal in a few weeks.
Still the third biggest news story after more than two weeks?
That is not good. If it was going to die away, it would have done so by now.
It's on 6% most-noticed. The crime of the century, the ultimate downfall of Cummings, Boris, Brexit, the universe...
6% noticed it.
Nobody except utter idiots like you is claiming it was the crime of the century. (Incidentally, I note that upthread you finally concede that he broke the regulations, even if you are the last person on Earth who believes his dumb lies about childcare.)
But it should have led to his summary dismissal.
The fact it hasn’t means his story is still running, whereas Duffield’s - which was in many ways equally serious - is not.
(As an aside, if the figures I have seen are correct, County Durham has the highest infection rate of any non-metropolitan area. While I think it probable that has nothing to do with Cummings, it is to put it mildly a most unfortunate coincidence.)
The reason Duffield's story isn't running is because Cummingsgate was a political hit job led by the Blob that hates him for what he did to them in 2016 and 2019. The moment Gardiner and Duffield's far worse transgressions became a story, the Blob ran a million miles in the opposite direction and pretended they'd never heard of lockdown before
You really are tribal fool. You don’t care about laws, you care about your side. A side that bears a distinctly uncomfortable resemblance to the Corbynistas.
I criticise Duffield. I criticise these protestors. I criticise Cummings.
But you cannot bring yourself to criticise Cummings.
Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion from scientific advisers who fear that re-opening shops in little more than a week risks a second lockdown by the end of summer.
Members of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) estimate that further loosening of restrictions could lead to the reproduction rate of the virus, known as R, going above 1.
Two regions of the UK have already passed this threshold, at which case numbers begin to grow, according to modelling by Public Health England with the University of Cambridge.
Raining today in London and footfall 70-80% down on last weekend. If its similar in the rest of the country the rain should bring R right down just in time.
Not raining here (Dundee) but very windy once again. Going to do some bracing gardening this afternoon. Am I alone in finding protests in the UK about truly dreadful things in America over which we have no say, no influence and no authority just a bit weird?
I agree we look too much to the US. I think UK society has historically placed USA on a false pedestal, so we are more disappointed and angry than we should be when they are clearly out of order. What baffles me and concerns me far more, is that our ruling elite think the US is still a reliable ally and friend for the next couple of decades - that is a very dangerous assumption to make given stories like a third of Americans have poisoned themselves to ward off covid, the place is going loopy.
I was in favour of Brexit (I may not have let this slip) but increasingly I feel we have more in common with other European nations than we do the US. We confuse ourselves that we are more similar than we are because they speak a form of English. But when you see videos like some of those linked to this week with people standing outside their house with semi-automatic weapons as protestors walk by I think I have absolutely nothing in common with these people at all. In fact I cannot imagine even liking them.
As a matter of interest - what do you suggest we do when the matter of the Austrian State Treaty comes up? :-)
Why should it come up? Its an historical anachronism. Trump is planning to remove the last US troop from Germany completing the withdrawal of the US from mainline Europe. We are in the fortunate position of being a quiet backwater of less and less significance in world affairs. We should take advantage.
On that basis you should support the Scottish independence and nuclear disarmament.
I do not support Scottish Independence and never will. Nuclear disarmament is something I am more open about, especially if the money was redirected to improving our conventional capability. The need for a strategic nuclear capability (as opposed to tactical capability) really ended in 1989.
Nuclear disarmament died with the Ukraine Kargil war.
Comments
Being aware of how unacceptable certain words or actions are, is a substantial step to changing thoughts.
What comes to mind is visiting someone whose Grandad had my Grandad over by buying something that meant a lot to him at a price way under it's value, then used the proceeds of the resale to fund his family's future wealth. If I go round to the Grandsons plush apartment while I am renting a bedsit, I am going to be resentful, and I'd expect the grandson to show some acknowledgement/humility
They can laugh all they want, the day of reckoning is coming for Beijing, the USA, Japan, India, South Korea, Brazil, western Europe, Australia, Canada and New Zealand all now see China as a foe after recent events.
Haven't you just trampled over your own 'proud to call themselves British' argument by reverting to economics? Though I recall a similar jumping about could be observed with Better Together.
That doesn't excuse the police brutality, and correctly the officers are going to have to answer for their actions in court. And it is an example of a wider systemic issue in the US.
But this rewriting as a good honest family man, who had a few ups and downs is just pure fiction.
I turn on Sky and see the huge BLM crowds in London and elsewhere and my heart sinks to the floor.
No matter BLM have a just cause, which they do, how much damage will this do to our progress and ironically how many more of their community will suffer from covid as a direct result of this
Hancock, Sturgeon and Patel have all appealed to respect the two metre rule and not gather in large numbers but where is Starmer and Khan in all of this
No doubt Starmer is penning a letter about it, but his absence from the media is just as bad as Boris recent submarine activities
To be honest Cummings, together with Duffield, Kinnock and Gardiner, were nothing compared to this
If no covid flare up happens in the next couple of weeks I will be amazed, and indeed many would say let us get back to normal
I am very concerned for everyone today
My concern would be that people would not change or remove PPE when leaving patient facing areas, thereby contaminating other areas. The way to prevent this would mean a change of PPE with every move.
Bear in mind that FFP3 masks and even ordinary surgical masks are in short supply. The ones I was using this week were originally expiry dated 2014, overstamped 2019, and again as 2019. Not even a pretence that they are still within date...
If Mr B believed in God rather than White Supremacism, but never says so, never writes so, never indicates so externally in any way. would that mean he wasn't religious?
I understand the authorities unwillingness to cause a confrontation, hoping letting people have a protest will get it out their system. But there events planned for day after day.
My parents like you have been locked away for 3 months. I am going to be extremely pissed if they have to go back to this in a couple of weeks because of this irresponsible behaviour.
Hadn't seen one of them for a while, what with everyone occupied with the virus.
George Floyd's murder sparking worldwide protests has nothing to do with Cummings
And to say anything else is just political bias
Example is not the main thing in influencing others. It is the only thing.
https://twitter.com/CarlNasman/status/1269267671205494785
The answer is yes, but it is the impact that we have to measure.
From that point of view I would in practice agree with you. My point is however that racist thoughts are still racist. However we - fortunately - do not judge people by what they think, only by what they do.
Sorry
The 2014 Yes campaign was undone entirely by arguments over money: their opponents majored in hard-to-answer questions over what currency an independent Scotland would use and then, when they started to panic that this might be insufficient, swore that they wouldn't lay a finger on the Barnett formula. It worked. That tells you everything you need to know about the nature of the Union.
Lockdown sceptics should cheer the BLM protests as an important part of normality resuming. More important than pubs or non-essential shops opening in many peoples eyes.
For an intelligent poster it is bemusing.
And Cummings ignored it.
They're good at getting the information out there; they're just a bit more lagged than the ONS.
I've been watching the Swedish deaths-per-day and they go like this:
Each colour is a different reporting day; I've gone for dashed lines while the data is very incomplete and semi-dashed lines when it's fairly incomplete.
There's a downward trend, but it's certainly not "falling fast" unless you do take the incomplete data as accurate before it's updated.
https://twitter.com/PopulusPolls/status/1268915361245790208
That people feel able to behave like that in the UK is insane, I agree, but it is partly because English and to some extent UK perceptions are being driven by London media, London pols and London stats. And by Mr Cummings adding a great dollop on top.
And in Britain?
There might lie your answer as to why not restricting protest in Germany makes sense.
But then you would have to confront how appallingly the British government had done in dealing with Covid-19, and that as we have seen before is something you just can't countenance.
On the authority of the Attorney General, no less.
Is that the only reason lockdown has collapsed? No.
Was it a big factor? Yes.
A load of young people fancied getting out and letting off steam after being locked in for 2 months, and they have what they think is a valid reason, but it's just bullshit. If it were only happening in the UK, blaming Cummings might carry more weight, but it isn't is it?
I support the only party that wants to end this iniquitous and damaging set up.
That is not good. If it was going to die away, it would have done so by now.
Edit: now I see why you hate Johnson so much.
6% noticed it.
But it should have led to his summary dismissal.
The fact it hasn’t means his story is still running, whereas Duffield’s - which was in many ways equally serious - is not.
(As an aside, if the figures I have seen are correct, County Durham has the highest infection rate of any non-metropolitan area. While I think it probable that has nothing to do with Cummings, it is to put it mildly a most unfortunate coincidence.)
Everyone made a serious error treating this as flue and pandemic preparations accordingly
The Cobra meetings agreed policy via Sage and Boris, Sturgeon, Drakesford and Foster all followed the same path in stay at home policy.
Sturgeon has come under fire in most of her press conference and accepts errors were made but hits out at the media and other critics using hindsight
I have no doubt history will not be kind on how the early and critical moments were mishandled, but there are many polticians and advisors who will have to face the facts sometime in the future
There has been a clear distinction between the categories "law" and "guidelines". The regulations are mandatory, the guidelines are advice (they said so in the first 2 paragraphs from way back in March).
I think confusion has been introduced by endless meaningless conversation about "rules", which nobody is clear about.
The assumption that being young, fit, and healthy means that COVID-19 is "just like the flu" may prove to be tragically wrong.
There are eg more people planning to go back to work though June / July, but it is all being done slowly and carefully.
1) Stay only at your primary residence, and not at a second home;
2) If you have symptoms, stay indoors;
3) If you go out, only go out 14 days after symptoms have subsided.
So he broke all of those, good and hard. Exceptions for childcare don’t apply, because he never tried to find out if he could get childcare in London. (As an aside, that was obviously a lie anyway and the attraction was obviously a bigger house, with a garden.)
But if he is to stay in post, that can’t be admitted, so they have to be retrospectively reinterpreted as guidelines.
Jesus Corona.
I think my wife and I will remain in voluntary lockdown anyway for the next two to three weeks
As you say, i think the public still think that if you aren't old or sick, worst is go to the hospital, have a spot of oxygen and back to normal in a few weeks.
I criticise Duffield. I criticise these protestors. I criticise Cummings.
But you cannot bring yourself to criticise Cummings.