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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Trump 2024: the game’s changed and a third term is possible

SystemSystem Posts: 12,169
edited June 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Trump 2024: the game’s changed and a third term is possible

Let’s get ahead of ourselves. I do not expect Donald Trump to win a second term and neither do punters betting hard cash. At the time of writing, he was just over 2.2 on Betfair to win November’s election and marginally odds against with traditional bookies. I think that’s still a bit short. Trump’s job approval figures have just dropped to a seven-month low (albeit within quite a small range), and Biden keeps pumping out solid leads in both national polls and those conducted in swing states.

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Comments

  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    First!
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Reading this pretty awful story about Kate Garraway's husband, it does make me wonder if Boris Johnson has also been physically irreperably damaged. Clearly he wasn't as ill as Derek but he still doesn't look well to me.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-8393517/Kate-Garraway-says-husband-Derek-Draper-locked-coma-forever.html
  • Reading this pretty awful story about Kate Garraway's husband, it does make me wonder if Boris Johnson has also been physically irreperably damaged. Clearly he wasn't as ill as Derek but he still doesn't look well to me.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-8393517/Kate-Garraway-says-husband-Derek-Draper-locked-coma-forever.html

    Certainly, the one area where I had felt confident Boris would be at his strongest was at the Despatch Box for PMQs on account of his sheer intelligence and mental agility, but he does seem to have been really struggling recently at this weekly encounter. Possibly he is still suffering from his recent illness but he definitely needs to up his game and soon.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,604
    Very interesting leader. Thank you David. You've spoiled my Saturday.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Reading this pretty awful story about Kate Garraway's husband, it does make me wonder if Boris Johnson has also been physically irreperably damaged. Clearly he wasn't as ill as Derek but he still doesn't look well to me.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-8393517/Kate-Garraway-says-husband-Derek-Draper-locked-coma-forever.html

    Certainly, the one area where I had felt confident Boris would be at his strongest was at the Despatch Box for PMQs on account of his sheer intelligence and mental agility, but he does seem to have been really struggling recently at this weekly encounter. Possibly he is still suffering from his recent illness but he definitely needs to up his game and soon.
    Johnson seems to have had the fairly typical slow post virus recovery syndrome, but was never a good parliamentarian. His style makes for an entertaining after dinner speaker or panel show host. Nothing more.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,217
    I wonder if 2020 will see Trump re-elected, but with the Democrats grabbing the Senate.

    Possible? Yes.
    Likely? No.

    It's currently 53-47. Alabama will go Red. So, let's make it 54-46.

    Maine and Colorado are toast. 52-48.

    So, I suspect, will Arizona, where Ms McSally is 13 points adrift in the latest Fox poll.

    51-49.

    Iowa. North Carolina. Georgia (times two).

    Plus outside shots at Montana, South Carolina and maybe even Kentucky.

  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Officially now Joe Biden vs Donald Trump then

    https://news.sky.com/story/joe-biden-formally-secures-democratic-presidential-nomination-12001449

    Sigh. Was Joe really the best the Democrats could put up?
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited June 2020
    rcs1000 said:

    I wonder if 2020 will see Trump re-elected, but with the Democrats grabbing the Senate.

    Possible? Yes.
    Likely? No.

    It's currently 53-47. Alabama will go Red. So, let's make it 54-46.

    Maine and Colorado are toast. 52-48.

    So, I suspect, will Arizona, where Ms McSally is 13 points adrift in the latest Fox poll.

    51-49.

    Iowa. North Carolina. Georgia (times two).

    Plus outside shots at Montana, South Carolina and maybe even Kentucky.

    The best thing for the Dems is that this time around the Republicans are defending 22 of the 34 seats up for grabs. (In 2018 the Dems were defending 26 of the 35.)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608
    edited June 2020
    If Biden has a single senior moment on the campaign, you are going to witness a negative pile-on by Trump the likes of which we have never seen.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited June 2020
    Re. Alabama, Roy Moore running again which doesn't make it quite so certain that the Republicans will win back the seat.

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/roy-moore-is-running-for-the-senate-again-and-alabama-republicans-are-not-happy

    Edit. scrub that. Old news.
  • fox327fox327 Posts: 370

    Reading this pretty awful story about Kate Garraway's husband, it does make me wonder if Boris Johnson has also been physically irreperably damaged. Clearly he wasn't as ill as Derek but he still doesn't look well to me.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-8393517/Kate-Garraway-says-husband-Derek-Draper-locked-coma-forever.html

    Certainly, the one area where I had felt confident Boris would be at his strongest was at the Despatch Box for PMQs on account of his sheer intelligence and mental agility, but he does seem to have been really struggling recently at this weekly encounter. Possibly he is still suffering from his recent illness but he definitely needs to up his game and soon.
    I don't think that it is in Boris's interests right now to defeat Starmer at PMQs, as he would like to have his support in dealing with the epidemic over some issues. Boris was ill with the virus himself recently and he needs to appear contrite, and also the next general election is still four years away. We could get a second wave of the virus, or there could be some other difficulties. I don't get the feeling that Boris is actually physically weaker now than before, but with attendances in the HoC chamber reduced it is harder for Boris to perform at PMQs in the way that he used to before.

    As far as Trump is concerned, I think the epidemic and the demonstrations have upset his plans. He was on track for a second win in November, and now it looks more difficult.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,805
    Good morning, everyone.

    Utterly OT, but just discovered that Kingdoms of Amalur, an interesting looking RPG I just never got around to playing, is getting a remaster, due out in August.

    Will almost certainly get that. Left it a bit late in the day with the next gen consoles coming at the end of the year, but still sounds good. And I've yet to do The Witcher 3 DLC...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    If Biden has a single senior moment on the campaign, you are going to witness a negative pile-on by Trump the likes of which we have never seen.

    I think that is already priced in. Biden has made such gaffes all his life.

    As people get into their seventies, their personalities become more fixed, and get revealed under scrutiny. It is harder to dissemble. When in such a position Biden still has a folksy charm, Trump merely displays his malignant egotism.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    edited June 2020
    CNN: Americans are putting their health at risk while trying to protect it. About a third of Americans surveyed by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have used some kind of risky cleaning practice to stop the spread of Covid-19, the CDC said on Friday. People have put bleach their food. Others have gargled or inhaled it. And some have washed their bodies with household cleaning and disinfectant products.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    IanB2 said:

    CNN: Americans are putting their health at risk while trying to protect it. About a third of Americans surveyed by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have used some kind of risky cleaning practice to stop the spread of Covid-19, the CDC said on Friday. People have put bleach their food. Others have gargled or inhaled it. And some have washed their bodies with household cleaning and disinfectant products.

    This is describing a country on a rapid decline. Tying our future to it would be a bigger mistake than Brexit.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    Excellent article David.

    Personally I think it's a bit far-fetched (I don't think Trump wants to do it forever and nor would be voted in to do so as president or vice president if he did) but it's a fascinating insight into the US Constitution.

    Thank you.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608
    Foxy said:

    If Biden has a single senior moment on the campaign, you are going to witness a negative pile-on by Trump the likes of which we have never seen.

    I think that is already priced in. Biden has made such gaffes all his life.

    As people get into their seventies, their personalities become more fixed, and get revealed under scrutiny. It is harder to dissemble. When in such a position Biden still has a folksy charm, Trump merely displays his malignant egotism.
    I really don't think Biden's dementia is priced in.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487

    If Biden has a single senior moment on the campaign, you are going to witness a negative pile-on by Trump the likes of which we have never seen.

    The Dems could easily lose this by overreacting to the BLM riots.

    If they tacitly look like they support using racism as a tool of anti-racism then that will fuel Trump.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    Excellent article David.

    Personally I think it's a bit far-fetched (I don't think Trump wants to do it forever and nor would be voted in to do so as president or vice president if he did) but it's a fascinating insight into the US Constitution.

    Thank you.

    I think its plausible if a sub<3% chance. There is a plausible chance 2020 is the last free Presidential election in a generation or more - Trump clearly prefers dictatorship and would switch to it in a heartbeat if he thought he would succeed.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Ivanka for president 2024 seems to me the most likely cunning plan. The Bushes and Clintons have thoroughly legitimized family succession.

    25/1 at Coral
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487

    Excellent article David.

    Personally I think it's a bit far-fetched (I don't think Trump wants to do it forever and nor would be voted in to do so as president or vice president if he did) but it's a fascinating insight into the US Constitution.

    Thank you.

    I think its plausible if a sub<3% chance. There is a plausible chance 2020 is the last free Presidential election in a generation or more - Trump clearly prefers dictatorship and would switch to it in a heartbeat if he thought he would succeed. </p>
    Those odds seem about right.

    I just don't think America is on the cusp of dictatorship and even his own supporters would baulk at such a thing.

    It would make a terrific novel though.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    fox327 said:

    Reading this pretty awful story about Kate Garraway's husband, it does make me wonder if Boris Johnson has also been physically irreperably damaged. Clearly he wasn't as ill as Derek but he still doesn't look well to me.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-8393517/Kate-Garraway-says-husband-Derek-Draper-locked-coma-forever.html

    Certainly, the one area where I had felt confident Boris would be at his strongest was at the Despatch Box for PMQs on account of his sheer intelligence and mental agility, but he does seem to have been really struggling recently at this weekly encounter. Possibly he is still suffering from his recent illness but he definitely needs to up his game and soon.
    I don't think that it is in Boris's interests right now to defeat Starmer at PMQs, as he would like to have his support in dealing with the epidemic over some issues. Boris was ill with the virus himself recently and he needs to appear contrite, and also the next general election is still four years away. We could get a second wave of the virus, or there could be some other difficulties. I don't get the feeling that Boris is actually physically weaker now than before, but with attendances in the HoC chamber reduced it is harder for Boris to perform at PMQs in the way that he used to before.

    As far as Trump is concerned, I think the epidemic and the demonstrations have upset his plans. He was on track for a second win in November, and now it looks more difficult.
    You were the one who told us it would be a shoo-in as Trump was anti China!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    edited June 2020

    If Biden has a single senior moment on the campaign, you are going to witness a negative pile-on by Trump the likes of which we have never seen.

    The Dems could easily lose this by overreacting to the BLM riots.

    If they tacitly look like they support using racism as a tool of anti-racism then that will fuel Trump.
    No, I think the Dems have dealt fairly well with the protests, and sporadic violence. There is a substantial feeling of righteous anger at yet another police killing of an unarmed black suspect.

    This link is worth reading, not just the first one. Across small town America, the Trumpian heartland there have been BLM demonstrations.

    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/annehelenpetersen/black-lives-matter-protests-near-me-small-towns?__twitter_impression=true

    I don't think America wants four more years of Trumpian race war.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    FPT
    HYUFD said
    'Heath won in 1970 in the TV age against the more charismatic Wilson as the economy was in an awful state, the pound devalued etc and Major won in 1992 over Kinnock as he was seen as more centrist and Kinnock not trusted on the economy, also in the TV age.'

    In what way was the economy in an awful state in 1970? Wilson bequeathed a Balance of Payments surplus to Heath - and a Budget Surplus. When was the last time a Tory Government managed to do either - never mind both - tpoa Labour Government?
    The economy was in pretty good shape in 1970 - far better than in March 1974 when Wilson returned to office in the aftermath of the 3 Day Week.Far better than the economy left by Thatcher in November 1990 when inflation was circa 10%.

    Inflation and unemployment was rising in 1970 and he had been forced to devalue the pound as the balance of payments was so bad.

    The Thatcher Major governments cut inflation and Thatcher also cut the number of strikes and increased GDP per capita
    Unemployment was actually falling in June 1970 and inflation was barely 5%. The pound was devalued in November 1967 to address the Balance of Payments problem and by 1970 the policy had clearly succeeded in that it delivered a substantial surplus. Inflation when Thatcher left office in 1990 was virtually unchanged from the level inherited in May 1979 - 9.7% compared with 10.2%. Unemployment was still high , the balance of payments was back in deficit despite the bonus of North Sea Oil and the Public Finances were in trouble notwithstanding the proceeds of Privatisation.. The position was far worse than what Heath had inherited from Wilson in June 1970.
    Wilson left unemployment higher in 1970 than when he came in in 1964
    Johnson will leave unemployment higher in 2024 than when he came in in 2019.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Police Scotland officers permitted to 'take the knee' at Black Lives Matter rallies this weekend

    Assistant Chief Constable Kenny MacDonald said officers can show their support for the movement if it is “operationally appropriate”.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/police-scotland-officers-permitted-take-22145282.amp
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    edited June 2020

    Excellent article David.

    Personally I think it's a bit far-fetched (I don't think Trump wants to do it forever and nor would be voted in to do so as president or vice president if he did) but it's a fascinating insight into the US Constitution.

    Thank you.

    I think its plausible if a sub<3% chance. There is a plausible chance 2020 is the last free Presidential election in a generation or more - Trump clearly prefers dictatorship and would switch to it in a heartbeat if he thought he would succeed. </p>
    Those odds seem about right.

    I just don't think America is on the cusp of dictatorship and even his own supporters would baulk at such a thing.

    It would make a terrific novel though.
    His supporters lap it all up regardless, he can tell them to drink bleach without lowering his support ffs. Dictatorship for all its faults, makes a lot more sense than drinking bleach, particularly if it is led by your hero.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,600
    I think Trump probably prefers running his businesses to being president. Being in the White House is just an temporary diversion for him.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    Foxy said:

    If Biden has a single senior moment on the campaign, you are going to witness a negative pile-on by Trump the likes of which we have never seen.

    The Dems could easily lose this by overreacting to the BLM riots.

    If they tacitly look like they support using racism as a tool of anti-racism then that will fuel Trump.
    No, I think the Dems have dealt fairly well with the protests, and sporadic violence. There is a substantial feeling of righteous anger at yet another police killing of an unarmed black suspect.

    This link is worth reading, not just the first one. Across small town America, the Trumpian heartland there have been BLM demonstrations.

    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/annehelenpetersen/black-lives-matter-protests-near-me-small-towns?__twitter_impression=true

    I don't think America wants four more years of Trumpian race war.
    Confirmation bias. You are not the target audience and you already have strong opinions on the matter.

    Your views should be discounted accordingly.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    Andy_JS said:

    I think Trump probably prefers running his businesses to being president. Being in the White House is just an temporary diversion for him.

    On the other hand, when Trump leaves power there is a whole set of lawsuits awaiting him that are currently on hold. Those lawsuits may result in jail and / or losing his business empire so he may prefer remaining in power.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    “If Trump wants three terms, they’re there to be had.”

    Unmitigated nonsense.

    This is the weakest Herdson conclusion I’ve ever read. I realise that header writers have to attract attention and push some buttons, but it is always best to avoid complete, unqualified piffle.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487

    Police Scotland officers permitted to 'take the knee' at Black Lives Matter rallies this weekend

    Assistant Chief Constable Kenny MacDonald said officers can show their support for the movement if it is “operationally appropriate”.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/police-scotland-officers-permitted-take-22145282.amp

    Big mistake. They should look at happened to Met officers who tried this in London.

    It's a power play that can embolden.

    It didn't stop the violence against them a few hours later.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,563
    edited June 2020

    “If Trump wants three terms, they’re there to be had.”

    Unmitigated nonsense.

    This is the weakest Herdson conclusion I’ve ever read. I realise that header writers have to attract attention and push some buttons, but it is always best to avoid complete, unqualified piffle.

    If it is nonsense explain why. I don't think it will happen in a million years but David sets out his argument clearly - including the possible obstacles - so anyone claiming otherwise needs to do the same.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Police Scotland officers permitted to 'take the knee' at Black Lives Matter rallies this weekend

    Assistant Chief Constable Kenny MacDonald said officers can show their support for the movement if it is “operationally appropriate”.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/police-scotland-officers-permitted-take-22145282.amp

    Big mistake. They should look at happened to Met officers who tried this in London.

    It's a power play that can embolden.

    It didn't stop the violence against them a few hours later.
    Disagreed. The violence hours later is not due to that action hours earlier, its due to people who wanted violence getting violence.

    The Police showing respect to the protestors and joining in symbolically with the protest will soothe out most protests, even if not the criminal element who actively are seeking violence.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I think Trump probably prefers running his businesses to being president. Being in the White House is just an temporary diversion for him.

    On the other hand, when Trump leaves power there is a whole set of lawsuits awaiting him that are currently on hold. Those lawsuits may result in jail and / or losing his business empire so he may prefer remaining in power.
    I think that is right. The African tyrant's dilemma. And if he does end up facing criminal charges the probability of his being Epsteined is non-zero.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487

    Police Scotland officers permitted to 'take the knee' at Black Lives Matter rallies this weekend

    Assistant Chief Constable Kenny MacDonald said officers can show their support for the movement if it is “operationally appropriate”.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/police-scotland-officers-permitted-take-22145282.amp

    Big mistake. They should look at happened to Met officers who tried this in London.

    It's a power play that can embolden.

    It didn't stop the violence against them a few hours later.
    Disagreed. The violence hours later is not due to that action hours earlier, its due to people who wanted violence getting violence.

    The Police showing respect to the protestors and joining in symbolically with the protest will soothe out most protests, even if not the criminal element who actively are seeking violence.
    I disagree. It sets up a racial power play, except this time white subservient to black, in reverse. It made some in the crowd feel more power over the police which they then exploited later. More broadly, it puts pressure on other police to follow suit and take a political stance if some do it and not others - particularly in front of a potentially hostile crowd.

    If the police want to join in with the protestors then they can quietly march with them.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487

    “If Trump wants three terms, they’re there to be had.”

    Unmitigated nonsense.

    This is the weakest Herdson conclusion I’ve ever read. I realise that header writers have to attract attention and push some buttons, but it is always best to avoid complete, unqualified piffle.

    I don't agree it's going to happen, but do you have to be quite so rude about it?

    David spends a lot of his own free personal time writing these articles for us.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Foxy said:

    If Biden has a single senior moment on the campaign, you are going to witness a negative pile-on by Trump the likes of which we have never seen.

    The Dems could easily lose this by overreacting to the BLM riots.

    If they tacitly look like they support using racism as a tool of anti-racism then that will fuel Trump.
    No, I think the Dems have dealt fairly well with the protests, and sporadic violence. There is a substantial feeling of righteous anger at yet another police killing of an unarmed black suspect.

    This link is worth reading, not just the first one. Across small town America, the Trumpian heartland there have been BLM demonstrations.

    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/annehelenpetersen/black-lives-matter-protests-near-me-small-towns?__twitter_impression=true

    I don't think America wants four more years of Trumpian race war.
    Confirmation bias. You are not the target audience and you already have strong opinions on the matter.

    Your views should be discounted accordingly.
    While you of course are an objective observer!
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    “If Trump wants three terms, they’re there to be had.”

    Unmitigated nonsense.

    This is the weakest Herdson conclusion I’ve ever read. I realise that header writers have to attract attention and push some buttons, but it is always best to avoid complete, unqualified piffle.

    If it is nonsense explain why. I don't think it will happen in a million years but David sets out his argument clearly - including the possible obstacles - so anyone claiming otherwise needs to do the same.
    Your post in also unmitigated nonsense.

    You explicitly write that you do not think Event A will happen in one million years. But you then expect another poster to write a detailed post explaining exactly why Event A is so profoundly unlikely to happen.

    If we’d been talking about an EVS probability, fair enough, but nobody in their right minds would waste even two minutes explaining why Layla Moran is not going to be the next prime minister of the United Kindom. And her odds are an extremely short (in the context of your “I don't think it will happen in a million years”) 125/1.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Andy_JS said:

    I think Trump probably prefers running his businesses to being president. Being in the White House is just an temporary diversion for him.

    Nevertheless a profitable one for some of his businesses?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Police Scotland officers permitted to 'take the knee' at Black Lives Matter rallies this weekend

    Assistant Chief Constable Kenny MacDonald said officers can show their support for the movement if it is “operationally appropriate”.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/police-scotland-officers-permitted-take-22145282.amp

    Big mistake. They should look at happened to Met officers who tried this in London.

    It's a power play that can embolden.

    It didn't stop the violence against them a few hours later.
    Disagreed. The violence hours later is not due to that action hours earlier, its due to people who wanted violence getting violence.

    The Police showing respect to the protestors and joining in symbolically with the protest will soothe out most protests, even if not the criminal element who actively are seeking violence.
    I disagree. It sets up a racial power play, except this time white subservient to black, in reverse. It made some in the crowd feel more power over the police which they then exploited later. More broadly, it puts pressure on other police to follow suit and take a political stance if some do it and not others - particularly in front of a potentially hostile crowd.

    If the police want to join in with the protestors then they can quietly march with them.
    I think its incredibly insecure to see joining in with kneeling, which everyone in the protest is doing, to show white subservient to black.

    That's like saying if one person salutes you, then you salute back, you're in a racial power play.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    “If Trump wants three terms, they’re there to be had.”

    Unmitigated nonsense.

    This is the weakest Herdson conclusion I’ve ever read. I realise that header writers have to attract attention and push some buttons, but it is always best to avoid complete, unqualified piffle.

    I don't agree it's going to happen, but do you have to be quite so rude about it?

    David spends a lot of his own free personal time writing these articles for us.
    I have the highest respect for David. Or at least, the highest level of respect I can hold for a Tory, which is admittedly not that impressive.

    He is the best header writer after Antifrank, and me.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    I enjoyed the article, thanks DH!

    Whoever wins this year will carry the can for any post CV19 economic mess and find it hard to win in 2024. If Biden winds, his presidency might resemble Carter. An interesting question is where do the GOP go after Trump. Is there Reagan out there? Because surely America needs a Reagan or an FDR to dig itself out of the abyss.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,805
    Thanks David. Interesting article.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,217

    “If Trump wants three terms, they’re there to be had.”

    Unmitigated nonsense.

    This is the weakest Herdson conclusion I’ve ever read. I realise that header writers have to attract attention and push some buttons, but it is always best to avoid complete, unqualified piffle.

    If it is nonsense explain why. I don't think it will happen in a million years but David sets out his argument clearly - including the possible obstacles - so anyone claiming otherwise needs to do the same.
    Your post in also unmitigated nonsense.

    You explicitly write that you do not think Event A will happen in one million years. But you then expect another poster to write a detailed post explaining exactly why Event A is so profoundly unlikely to happen.

    If we’d been talking about an EVS probability, fair enough, but nobody in their right minds would waste even two minutes explaining why Layla Moran is not going to be the next prime minister of the United Kindom. And her odds are an extremely short (in the context of your “I don't think it will happen in a million years”) 125/1.
    Eh?

    Layla Moran is the next Prime Minister of the United Kingdom.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    God help America. Both candidates are extremely poor.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    If Biden has a single senior moment on the campaign, you are going to witness a negative pile-on by Trump the likes of which we have never seen.

    The Dems could easily lose this by overreacting to the BLM riots.

    If they tacitly look like they support using racism as a tool of anti-racism then that will fuel Trump.
    No, I think the Dems have dealt fairly well with the protests, and sporadic violence. There is a substantial feeling of righteous anger at yet another police killing of an unarmed black suspect.

    This link is worth reading, not just the first one. Across small town America, the Trumpian heartland there have been BLM demonstrations.

    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/annehelenpetersen/black-lives-matter-protests-near-me-small-towns?__twitter_impression=true

    I don't think America wants four more years of Trumpian race war.
    Confirmation bias. You are not the target audience and you already have strong opinions on the matter.

    Your views should be discounted accordingly.
    While you of course are an objective observer!
    I think I might know more than you how Trump supporters might see it.

    Setting up racism as a tool of anti-racism and getting whites to bend knees to blacks - together with all the law and order concerns - is precisely the sort of thing that will stir up Trump's base. All we need know is a leading Democrat to call those who baulk at that deplorable and we're there.

    I'm interested in making money on this election so will continue to call it as I see it. It's not over yet and the campaign will be crucial.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    rcs1000 said:

    “If Trump wants three terms, they’re there to be had.”

    Unmitigated nonsense.

    This is the weakest Herdson conclusion I’ve ever read. I realise that header writers have to attract attention and push some buttons, but it is always best to avoid complete, unqualified piffle.

    If it is nonsense explain why. I don't think it will happen in a million years but David sets out his argument clearly - including the possible obstacles - so anyone claiming otherwise needs to do the same.
    Your post in also unmitigated nonsense.

    You explicitly write that you do not think Event A will happen in one million years. But you then expect another poster to write a detailed post explaining exactly why Event A is so profoundly unlikely to happen.

    If we’d been talking about an EVS probability, fair enough, but nobody in their right minds would waste even two minutes explaining why Layla Moran is not going to be the next prime minister of the United Kindom. And her odds are an extremely short (in the context of your “I don't think it will happen in a million years”) 125/1.
    Eh?

    Layla Moran is the next Prime Minister of the United Kingdom.
    Great! We’d all better get down the bookies and make our fortunes.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487

    PS Casino if you feel that the Police represent the "white race" against the protestors representing the "black race" in some sort of power game then the protestors have a point and we have more of a problem here than I thought.

    No, I don't and I hope you withdraw that unpleasant insinuation.

    The images have been of white police officers bending knees in front of black protestors, as well you know, and that is precisely the point of it
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487

    “If Trump wants three terms, they’re there to be had.”

    Unmitigated nonsense.

    This is the weakest Herdson conclusion I’ve ever read. I realise that header writers have to attract attention and push some buttons, but it is always best to avoid complete, unqualified piffle.

    I don't agree it's going to happen, but do you have to be quite so rude about it?

    David spends a lot of his own free personal time writing these articles for us.
    I have the highest respect for David. Or at least, the highest level of respect I can hold for a Tory, which is admittedly not that impressive.

    He is the best header writer after Antifrank, and me.
    Lol
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487

    Police Scotland officers permitted to 'take the knee' at Black Lives Matter rallies this weekend

    Assistant Chief Constable Kenny MacDonald said officers can show their support for the movement if it is “operationally appropriate”.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/police-scotland-officers-permitted-take-22145282.amp

    Big mistake. They should look at happened to Met officers who tried this in London.

    It's a power play that can embolden.

    It didn't stop the violence against them a few hours later.
    Disagreed. The violence hours later is not due to that action hours earlier, its due to people who wanted violence getting violence.

    The Police showing respect to the protestors and joining in symbolically with the protest will soothe out most protests, even if not the criminal element who actively are seeking violence.
    I disagree. It sets up a racial power play, except this time white subservient to black, in reverse. It made some in the crowd feel more power over the police which they then exploited later. More broadly, it puts pressure on other police to follow suit and take a political stance if some do it and not others - particularly in front of a potentially hostile crowd.

    If the police want to join in with the protestors then they can quietly march with them.
    I think its incredibly insecure to see joining in with kneeling, which everyone in the protest is doing, to show white subservient to black.

    That's like saying if one person salutes you, then you salute back, you're in a racial power play.
    No it isn't. Such a salute would be one of mutual respect.

    Your analogy would work if both sides were bending knees to each other but that's not what's happening here.

    It's intended to perceptions of assumed racial hierarchies by inverting them.

    I don't think that's constructive and risks reinforcing divides rather than breaking them down.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    America increasingly resembles a 70/80s dystopian sci-fi. I keep expecting to see Robocop or Snake Plisken pop up at any minute.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    “If Trump wants three terms, they’re there to be had.”

    Unmitigated nonsense.

    This is the weakest Herdson conclusion I’ve ever read. I realise that header writers have to attract attention and push some buttons, but it is always best to avoid complete, unqualified piffle.

    If it is nonsense explain why. I don't think it will happen in a million years but David sets out his argument clearly - including the possible obstacles - so anyone claiming otherwise needs to do the same.
    Your post in also unmitigated nonsense.

    You explicitly write that you do not think Event A will happen in one million years. But you then expect another poster to write a detailed post explaining exactly why Event A is so profoundly unlikely to happen.

    If we’d been talking about an EVS probability, fair enough, but nobody in their right minds would waste even two minutes explaining why Layla Moran is not going to be the next prime minister of the United Kindom. And her odds are an extremely short (in the context of your “I don't think it will happen in a million years”) 125/1.
    The markets don't agree. As noted downthread the odds on Ivanka 2024 are 25/1, and it is certain that Ivanka would be a proxy. So lay the shit out of that if you think you are right.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    God help America. Both candidates are extremely poor.

    God help the Conservative and Unionist Party.

    PM: clown
    Home Sec: thick
    Chancellor: wide boy
    Foreign Sec: pile of jelly
    Ch Duchy Lancaster: slimebag
    Scottish Sec: purple-faced 19th tee resident

    ad infinitum

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Jonathan said:

    America increasingly resembles a 70/80s dystopian sci-fi. I keep expecting to see Robocop or Snake Plisken pop up at any minute.

    I thought he was dead.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    rcs1000 said:

    “If Trump wants three terms, they’re there to be had.”

    Unmitigated nonsense.

    This is the weakest Herdson conclusion I’ve ever read. I realise that header writers have to attract attention and push some buttons, but it is always best to avoid complete, unqualified piffle.

    If it is nonsense explain why. I don't think it will happen in a million years but David sets out his argument clearly - including the possible obstacles - so anyone claiming otherwise needs to do the same.
    Your post in also unmitigated nonsense.

    You explicitly write that you do not think Event A will happen in one million years. But you then expect another poster to write a detailed post explaining exactly why Event A is so profoundly unlikely to happen.

    If we’d been talking about an EVS probability, fair enough, but nobody in their right minds would waste even two minutes explaining why Layla Moran is not going to be the next prime minister of the United Kindom. And her odds are an extremely short (in the context of your “I don't think it will happen in a million years”) 125/1.
    Eh?

    Layla Moran is the next Prime Minister of the United Kingdom.
    @rcs1000

    You need to keep an eye on that book of yours. It’s hijacked your account again and is posting wishful thoughts.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    IshmaelZ said:

    Jonathan said:

    America increasingly resembles a 70/80s dystopian sci-fi. I keep expecting to see Robocop or Snake Plisken pop up at any minute.

    I thought he was dead.
    I thought the whole point of Robocop was that he was dead?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    Right, daughter is active so I'm off for the day.

    Play nicely everyone.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    In the extremely unlikely event this happens and the SC signs off Trump running for a 3rd term, then presumably the Democrats could also run a candidate with Obama as the VP?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    IshmaelZ said:

    “If Trump wants three terms, they’re there to be had.”

    Unmitigated nonsense.

    This is the weakest Herdson conclusion I’ve ever read. I realise that header writers have to attract attention and push some buttons, but it is always best to avoid complete, unqualified piffle.

    If it is nonsense explain why. I don't think it will happen in a million years but David sets out his argument clearly - including the possible obstacles - so anyone claiming otherwise needs to do the same.
    Your post in also unmitigated nonsense.

    You explicitly write that you do not think Event A will happen in one million years. But you then expect another poster to write a detailed post explaining exactly why Event A is so profoundly unlikely to happen.

    If we’d been talking about an EVS probability, fair enough, but nobody in their right minds would waste even two minutes explaining why Layla Moran is not going to be the next prime minister of the United Kindom. And her odds are an extremely short (in the context of your “I don't think it will happen in a million years”) 125/1.
    The markets don't agree. As noted downthread the odds on Ivanka 2024 are 25/1, and it is certain that Ivanka would be a proxy. So lay the shit out of that if you think you are right.
    Lay at 25/1? This is PB for heaven’s sake. Mike’s not usually interested in short-odds bets, but it’s a first for me to see anyone puffing a super lay at... ... ta da... 25/1!

    Even with continued low interest rates, you’d be better tucking your cash in a savings account for 4 years.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Police Scotland officers permitted to 'take the knee' at Black Lives Matter rallies this weekend

    Assistant Chief Constable Kenny MacDonald said officers can show their support for the movement if it is “operationally appropriate”.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/police-scotland-officers-permitted-take-22145282.amp

    Big mistake. They should look at happened to Met officers who tried this in London.

    It's a power play that can embolden.

    It didn't stop the violence against them a few hours later.
    Disagreed. The violence hours later is not due to that action hours earlier, its due to people who wanted violence getting violence.

    The Police showing respect to the protestors and joining in symbolically with the protest will soothe out most protests, even if not the criminal element who actively are seeking violence.
    I disagree. It sets up a racial power play, except this time white subservient to black, in reverse. It made some in the crowd feel more power over the police which they then exploited later. More broadly, it puts pressure on other police to follow suit and take a political stance if some do it and not others - particularly in front of a potentially hostile crowd.

    If the police want to join in with the protestors then they can quietly march with them.
    I think its incredibly insecure to see joining in with kneeling, which everyone in the protest is doing, to show white subservient to black.

    That's like saying if one person salutes you, then you salute back, you're in a racial power play.
    No it isn't. Such a salute would be one of mutual respect.

    Your analogy would work if both sides were bending knees to each other but that's not what's happening here.

    It's intended to perceptions of assumed racial hierarchies by inverting them.

    I don't think that's constructive and risks reinforcing divides rather than breaking them down.
    Err, no.

    The bended knee, as popularised by Colin Kopernick, was originated by a black man, in the presence of a predominantly white audience. It is not a symbol of dominance, but rather one of solidarity with the victims of police brutality, an undeniable reality for many black people.

    I would much rather see a policeman kneel in recognition of the need to do more, than to kneel on a black man.

    Policing in Britain is by consent, and police demonstrating that they are part of the community, not a force of occupation is fundamental to building that consent.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,563

    “If Trump wants three terms, they’re there to be had.”

    Unmitigated nonsense.

    This is the weakest Herdson conclusion I’ve ever read. I realise that header writers have to attract attention and push some buttons, but it is always best to avoid complete, unqualified piffle.

    If it is nonsense explain why. I don't think it will happen in a million years but David sets out his argument clearly - including the possible obstacles - so anyone claiming otherwise needs to do the same.
    Your post in also unmitigated nonsense.

    You explicitly write that you do not think Event A will happen in one million years. But you then expect another poster to write a detailed post explaining exactly why Event A is so profoundly unlikely to happen.

    If we’d been talking about an EVS probability, fair enough, but nobody in their right minds would waste even two minutes explaining why Layla Moran is not going to be the next prime minister of the United Kindom. And her odds are an extremely short (in the context of your “I don't think it will happen in a million years”) 125/1.
    Dodging the question again Stuart. You are the one who called the thread header unmitigated nonsense. To be credible you need to explain why.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    edited June 2020
    Anyway, completely off topic:

    It is now 57 days since the coal fired power stations were switched off.

    Given this is the best time of year for solar and probably wind as well, plus a collapse in the demand for power, my suspicion is that they will not be turned on again until October.

    I wonder a bit actually whether they will ever be turned on again. Most of them were due to shut over the next two years anyway, and they’re not the sort of facility that takes kindly to being mothballed.

    At the moment, on average gas is providing around a third of our electricity, renewables 28% and domestic nuclear 20%, the balance coming from biomass, hydro, France and pumped storage. THis has cut carbon dioxide emissions from around 452g/kWh in 2009 to just 146g/kWh on average now - it has dipped as low as 43g/kWh on some very sunny, windy days.

    So, progress, with the usual caveats and reservations.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited June 2020

    Officially now Joe Biden vs Donald Trump then

    https://news.sky.com/story/joe-biden-formally-secures-democratic-presidential-nomination-12001449

    Sigh. Was Joe really the best the Democrats could put up?

    Well, they'd have been better going with KLOBUCHAR, but there's a lot to be said for Biden. The main argument that Trump might win in November is that he's very effective at attacking. Biden is a great candidate to run against that, because the voters are very familiar with him and like him, which is why nothing has really stuck at this point. If they'd gone for someone less well-known Trump would have a lot more scope to tell a story about them before they had a chance to tell their own.

    I know he's old, but in the US they don't seem to care much about that, and the idea that he's got dementia wouldn't set Trump up well for a debate since Biden has been practicing all year and can follow an argument and make coherent points, and Trump can't.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Jonathan said:

    America increasingly resembles a 70/80s dystopian sci-fi. I keep expecting to see Robocop or Snake Plisken pop up at any minute.

    I thought he was dead.
    I thought the whole point of Robocop was that he was dead?
    Running joke in EFNY, everybody says "I thought you were dead" to Plissken.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Officially now Joe Biden vs Donald Trump then

    https://news.sky.com/story/joe-biden-formally-secures-democratic-presidential-nomination-12001449

    Sigh. Was Joe really the best the Democrats could put up?

    Well, they'd have been better going with KLOBUCHAR, but there's a lot to be said for Biden. The main argument that Trump might win in November is that he's very effective at attacking. Biden is a great candidate to run against that, because the voters are very familiar with him and like him, which is why nothing has really stuck at this point. If they'd gone for someone less well-known Trump would have a lot more scope to tell a story about them before they had a chance to tell their own.

    I know he's old, but in the US they don't seem to care much about that, and the idea that he's got dementia wouldn't set Trump up well for a debate since Biden has been practicing all year and can follow an argument and make coherent points, and Trump can't.
    Trump’s problem with attacking Biden’s mental faculties is that even a cursory glance at Trump’s twitter feed raises very serious questions over his own mental state.
  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    ydoethur said:



    At the moment, on average gas is providing around a third of our energy,

    A third of our electricity.

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    Foxy said:

    Police Scotland officers permitted to 'take the knee' at Black Lives Matter rallies this weekend

    Assistant Chief Constable Kenny MacDonald said officers can show their support for the movement if it is “operationally appropriate”.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/police-scotland-officers-permitted-take-22145282.amp

    Big mistake. They should look at happened to Met officers who tried this in London.

    It's a power play that can embolden.

    It didn't stop the violence against them a few hours later.
    Disagreed. The violence hours later is not due to that action hours earlier, its due to people who wanted violence getting violence.

    The Police showing respect to the protestors and joining in symbolically with the protest will soothe out most protests, even if not the criminal element who actively are seeking violence.
    I disagree. It sets up a racial power play, except this time white subservient to black, in reverse. It made some in the crowd feel more power over the police which they then exploited later. More broadly, it puts pressure on other police to follow suit and take a political stance if some do it and not others - particularly in front of a potentially hostile crowd.

    If the police want to join in with the protestors then they can quietly march with them.
    I think its incredibly insecure to see joining in with kneeling, which everyone in the protest is doing, to show white subservient to black.

    That's like saying if one person salutes you, then you salute back, you're in a racial power play.
    No it isn't. Such a salute would be one of mutual respect.

    Your analogy would work if both sides were bending knees to each other but that's not what's happening here.

    It's intended to perceptions of assumed racial hierarchies by inverting them.

    I don't think that's constructive and risks reinforcing divides rather than breaking them down.
    Err, no.

    The bended knee, as popularised by Colin Kopernick, was originated by a black man, in the presence of a predominantly white audience. It is not a symbol of dominance, but rather one of solidarity with the victims of police brutality, an undeniable reality for many black people.

    I would much rather see a policeman kneel in recognition of the need to do more, than to kneel on a black man.

    Policing in Britain is by consent, and police demonstrating that they are part of the community, not a force of occupation is fundamental to building that consent.
    I do wonder what forms of protest or redress might be seen as acceptable or reasonable to some posters.

    Affirmative action - no
    Businesses campaigning alongside them - no
    Taking a knee - no
    Mass protests - no

    Is there anything they could do to bring about change that would be acceptable beyond meekly asking?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    edited June 2020
    Gadfly said:

    ydoethur said:



    At the moment, on average gas is providing around a third of our energy,

    A third of our electricity.

    Sorry, yes. Early morning brain fade. Thank you for the correction.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    ydoethur said:

    Officially now Joe Biden vs Donald Trump then

    https://news.sky.com/story/joe-biden-formally-secures-democratic-presidential-nomination-12001449

    Sigh. Was Joe really the best the Democrats could put up?

    Well, they'd have been better going with KLOBUCHAR, but there's a lot to be said for Biden. The main argument that Trump might win in November is that he's very effective at attacking. Biden is a great candidate to run against that, because the voters are very familiar with him and like him, which is why nothing has really stuck at this point. If they'd gone for someone less well-known Trump would have a lot more scope to tell a story about them before they had a chance to tell their own.

    I know he's old, but in the US they don't seem to care much about that, and the idea that he's got dementia wouldn't set Trump up well for a debate since Biden has been practicing all year and can follow an argument and make coherent points, and Trump can't.
    Trump’s problem with attacking Biden’s mental faculties is that even a cursory glance at Trump’s twitter feed raises very serious questions over his own mental state.
    Yes, but who ever expected consistency or self reflection from the Donald?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    An interesting thread header, but I don't think Trump will win. In fact, I think the Dems will win a landslide victory.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Officially now Joe Biden vs Donald Trump then

    https://news.sky.com/story/joe-biden-formally-secures-democratic-presidential-nomination-12001449

    Sigh. Was Joe really the best the Democrats could put up?

    Well, they'd have been better going with KLOBUCHAR, but there's a lot to be said for Biden. The main argument that Trump might win in November is that he's very effective at attacking. Biden is a great candidate to run against that, because the voters are very familiar with him and like him, which is why nothing has really stuck at this point. If they'd gone for someone less well-known Trump would have a lot more scope to tell a story about them before they had a chance to tell their own.

    I know he's old, but in the US they don't seem to care much about that, and the idea that he's got dementia wouldn't set Trump up well for a debate since Biden has been practicing all year and can follow an argument and make coherent points, and Trump can't.
    Trump’s problem with attacking Biden’s mental faculties is that even a cursory glance at Trump’s twitter feed raises very serious questions over his own mental state.
    Yes, but who ever expected consistency or self reflection from the Donald?
    It has gone way, way beyond that.
  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    ydoethur said:

    Gadfly said:

    ydoethur said:



    At the moment, on average gas is providing around a third of our energy,

    A third of our electricity.

    Sorry, yes. Early morning brain fade. Thank you for the correction.
    Most magnanimous of you!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    tlg86 said:

    An interesting thread header, but I don't think Trump will win. In fact, I think the Dems will win a landslide victory.

    I hope so. Trumpism is a cancer in America's heart.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    Thanks David for a very interesting header.

    I certainly agree on the coming campaign: Trump is going to try and hammer Biden over his health and frailty. That and China. It is going to the most brutal, dirty and depressing campaign in US history.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    It looks like Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin plus Florida are again the key swing states that will decide if Trump is re elected or if Biden joins Reagan as only the second candidate in 100 years to beat an incumbent president after only 1 term of his party in the White House.

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1268996532906442754?s=20

    If Trump is re elected he might try to continue in power on the bottom of a ticket headed by VP Pence in 2024 but I cannot see it winning, after 8 years of a Republican administration voters would almost certainly be looking for a change with a young, charismatic Democrat like Joe Kennedy III or Pete Buttigieg likely to be favourite to win
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Gadfly said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gadfly said:

    ydoethur said:



    At the moment, on average gas is providing around a third of our energy,

    A third of our electricity.

    Sorry, yes. Early morning brain fade. Thank you for the correction.
    Most magnanimous of you!
    I have actually, in light of that comment, been trying to find out what percentage of the UK’s energy mix was provided by electricity last month. Direct gas use will probably have been very low given the temperatures and offices, restaurants and pubs being shut. I imagine oil is also very substantially down. However, it’s proving tough to find the figures. Does anyone know where they are (or indeed, if they’ve been collated yet)?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    tlg86 said:

    An interesting thread header, but I don't think Trump will win. In fact, I think the Dems will win a landslide victory.

    Is your analysis based on conventional norms. I suspect Trump's henchmen both in the US and Russia have a portfolio of chicanery up their sleeves that we haven't even considered yet.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    Will Snake 🐍 Plisken run in 2024?
    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    An interesting thread header, but I don't think Trump will win. In fact, I think the Dems will win a landslide victory.

    I hope so. Trumpism is a cancer in America's heart.
    Sadly like cancer, it spreads. Signs of it over here too.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited June 2020

    Police Scotland officers permitted to 'take the knee' at Black Lives Matter rallies this weekend

    Assistant Chief Constable Kenny MacDonald said officers can show their support for the movement if it is “operationally appropriate”.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/police-scotland-officers-permitted-take-22145282.amp

    Big mistake. They should look at happened to Met officers who tried this in London.

    It's a power play that can embolden.

    It didn't stop the violence against them a few hours later.
    Disagreed. The violence hours later is not due to that action hours earlier, its due to people who wanted violence getting violence.

    The Police showing respect to the protestors and joining in symbolically with the protest will soothe out most protests, even if not the criminal element who actively are seeking violence.
    I disagree. It sets up a racial power play, except this time white subservient to black, in reverse. It made some in the crowd feel more power over the police which they then exploited later. More broadly, it puts pressure on other police to follow suit and take a political stance if some do it and not others - particularly in front of a potentially hostile crowd.

    If the police want to join in with the protestors then they can quietly march with them.
    I think its incredibly insecure to see joining in with kneeling, which everyone in the protest is doing, to show white subservient to black.

    That's like saying if one person salutes you, then you salute back, you're in a racial power play.
    No it isn't. Such a salute would be one of mutual respect.

    Your analogy would work if both sides were bending knees to each other but that's not what's happening here.

    It's intended to perceptions of assumed racial hierarchies by inverting them.

    I don't think that's constructive and risks reinforcing divides rather than breaking them down.
    The protestors are kneeling too, its symbolic, no more a power play than clapping or any other symbolism.

    Joining in with kneeling is joining in with the symbolism, not reversing it.

    If the Police kneel its them recognising that black lives matter, which shouldn't be a difficult thing for them to do.
  • andypetukandypetuk Posts: 69
    Foxy said:

    Reading this pretty awful story about Kate Garraway's husband, it does make me wonder if Boris Johnson has also been physically irreperably damaged. Clearly he wasn't as ill as Derek but he still doesn't look well to me.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-8393517/Kate-Garraway-says-husband-Derek-Draper-locked-coma-forever.html

    Certainly, the one area where I had felt confident Boris would be at his strongest was at the Despatch Box for PMQs on account of his sheer intelligence and mental agility, but he does seem to have been really struggling recently at this weekly encounter. Possibly he is still suffering from his recent illness but he definitely needs to up his game and soon.
    Johnson seems to have had the fairly typical slow post virus recovery syndrome, but was never a good parliamentarian. His style makes for an entertaining after dinner speaker or panel show host. Nothing more.
    Boris has never been particularly adept at being interviewed or questioned whether as London Mayor or in parliament. He usually tries to cover his evasiveness with impish humour, which opponents can find infuriating but supporters lap up.

    With the subject matter being so grave, he can’t resort to this tactic. You can often see that he is restraining himself from making a quip.

    This is leaving him severely hamstrung.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,604

    Thanks David for a very interesting header.

    I certainly agree on the coming campaign: Trump is going to try and hammer Biden over his health and frailty. That and China. It is going to the most brutal, dirty and depressing campaign in US history.

    Will Biden follows Michelle's edict "When they go low, we go high"?

    Or will he go it in low and dirty. " Donald - your twitter feed is public evidence of your fragile mental health. Everyone can see it. You are a clear and present danger."
  • MundoMundo Posts: 36
    ydoethur said:

    Anyway, completely off topic:

    It is now 57 days since the coal fired power stations were switched off.

    Given this is the best time of year for solar and probably wind as well, plus a collapse in the demand for power, my suspicion is that they will not be turned on again until October.

    I wonder a bit actually whether they will ever be turned on again. Most of them were due to shut over the next two years anyway, and they’re not the sort of facility that takes kindly to being mothballed.

    At the moment, on average gas is providing around a third of our electricity, renewables 28% and domestic nuclear 20%, the balance coming from biomass, hydro, France and pumped storage. THis has cut carbon dioxide emissions from around 452g/kWh in 2009 to just 146g/kWh on average now - it has dipped as low as 43g/kWh on some very sunny, windy days.

    So, progress, with the usual caveats and reservations.

    That is an impressive drop of 68% - why have we not heard more about this over the last 10 years. Unalloyed good news. Epic communication fail.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Mundo said:

    ydoethur said:

    Anyway, completely off topic:

    It is now 57 days since the coal fired power stations were switched off.

    Given this is the best time of year for solar and probably wind as well, plus a collapse in the demand for power, my suspicion is that they will not be turned on again until October.

    I wonder a bit actually whether they will ever be turned on again. Most of them were due to shut over the next two years anyway, and they’re not the sort of facility that takes kindly to being mothballed.

    At the moment, on average gas is providing around a third of our electricity, renewables 28% and domestic nuclear 20%, the balance coming from biomass, hydro, France and pumped storage. THis has cut carbon dioxide emissions from around 452g/kWh in 2009 to just 146g/kWh on average now - it has dipped as low as 43g/kWh on some very sunny, windy days.

    So, progress, with the usual caveats and reservations.

    That is an impressive drop of 68% - why have we not heard more about this over the last 10 years. Unalloyed good news. Epic communication fail.
    We have heard a lot but its never good enough until it gets to zero apparently.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    Jonathan said:

    America increasingly resembles a 70/80s dystopian sci-fi. I keep expecting to see Robocop or Snake Plisken pop up at any minute.

    As Trump's America continues to degenerate, the closer the parallels to the fictional disintegration of the US political system that Margaret Attwood set out in "The Handmaid's Tale". It would be a simple matter for her to issue a slightly revised version in which the events that led to the Republic of Gideon came about quasi constitutionally on the back of an extended Trump presidency in which he's succeeded by religious extremists, all aided by sycophants and a pliant Supreme Court prepared to set aside constitutional checks and balances, rather than by the less plausible route of an armed coup by religious extremists.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Barnesian said:

    Thanks David for a very interesting header.

    I certainly agree on the coming campaign: Trump is going to try and hammer Biden over his health and frailty. That and China. It is going to the most brutal, dirty and depressing campaign in US history.

    Will Biden follows Michelle's edict "When they go low, we go high"?

    Or will he go it in low and dirty. " Donald - your twitter feed is public evidence of your fragile mental health. Everyone can see it. You are a clear and present danger."
    I don't think what you're suggesting is low and dirty, it's just simple and factual and I'm sure it's the kind of thing Biden will say.

    But I think there are signs that Biden's team will campaign for the swing voters they've got instead of the swing voters they wish they had - a good example is this China ad:
    https://www.businessinsider.com/joe-biden-ad-china-trump-coronavirus-racist-xenophobic-2020-4?op=1
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    Mundo said:

    ydoethur said:

    Anyway, completely off topic:

    It is now 57 days since the coal fired power stations were switched off.

    Given this is the best time of year for solar and probably wind as well, plus a collapse in the demand for power, my suspicion is that they will not be turned on again until October.

    I wonder a bit actually whether they will ever be turned on again. Most of them were due to shut over the next two years anyway, and they’re not the sort of facility that takes kindly to being mothballed.

    At the moment, on average gas is providing around a third of our electricity, renewables 28% and domestic nuclear 20%, the balance coming from biomass, hydro, France and pumped storage. THis has cut carbon dioxide emissions from around 452g/kWh in 2009 to just 146g/kWh on average now - it has dipped as low as 43g/kWh on some very sunny, windy days.

    So, progress, with the usual caveats and reservations.

    That is an impressive drop of 68% - why have we not heard more about this over the last 10 years. Unalloyed good news. Epic communication fail.
    We have heard a lot but its never good enough until it gets to zero apparently.
    A significant minority on the right spent years telling us renewables didn’t work, even today their suspicious of it and dislike wind farms.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    Barnesian said:

    Thanks David for a very interesting header.

    I certainly agree on the coming campaign: Trump is going to try and hammer Biden over his health and frailty. That and China. It is going to the most brutal, dirty and depressing campaign in US history.

    Will Biden follows Michelle's edict "When they go low, we go high"?

    Or will he go it in low and dirty. " Donald - your twitter feed is public evidence of your fragile mental health. Everyone can see it. You are a clear and present danger."
    Why is the latter going low and dirty? Aren't candidates allowed to state the truth? Low and dirty is when you start making things up.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Jonathan said:

    Mundo said:

    ydoethur said:

    Anyway, completely off topic:

    It is now 57 days since the coal fired power stations were switched off.

    Given this is the best time of year for solar and probably wind as well, plus a collapse in the demand for power, my suspicion is that they will not be turned on again until October.

    I wonder a bit actually whether they will ever be turned on again. Most of them were due to shut over the next two years anyway, and they’re not the sort of facility that takes kindly to being mothballed.

    At the moment, on average gas is providing around a third of our electricity, renewables 28% and domestic nuclear 20%, the balance coming from biomass, hydro, France and pumped storage. THis has cut carbon dioxide emissions from around 452g/kWh in 2009 to just 146g/kWh on average now - it has dipped as low as 43g/kWh on some very sunny, windy days.

    So, progress, with the usual caveats and reservations.

    That is an impressive drop of 68% - why have we not heard more about this over the last 10 years. Unalloyed good news. Epic communication fail.
    We have heard a lot but its never good enough until it gets to zero apparently.
    A significant minority on the right spent years telling us renewables didn’t work, even today their suspicious of it and dislike wind farms.
    I am not in that minority, I'm a big fan of renewables.

    Wind especially off shore wind is very cost effective and not just clean.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766

    Officially now Joe Biden vs Donald Trump then

    https://news.sky.com/story/joe-biden-formally-secures-democratic-presidential-nomination-12001449

    Sigh. Was Joe really the best the Democrats could put up?

    Well, they'd have been better going with KLOBUCHAR, but there's a lot to be said for Biden. The main argument that Trump might win in November is that he's very effective at attacking. Biden is a great candidate to run against that, because the voters are very familiar with him and like him, which is why nothing has really stuck at this point. If they'd gone for someone less well-known Trump would have a lot more scope to tell a story about them before they had a chance to tell their own.

    I know he's old, but in the US they don't seem to care much about that, and the idea that he's got dementia wouldn't set Trump up well for a debate since Biden has been practicing all year and can follow an argument and make coherent points, and Trump can't.
    Biden also instantly represents a better America. No need to introduce himself or where he is coming from, the public know him.

    Hopefully enough will realise that it is him or the end of the Republic in any shape that is recognizable.

    I'm not optimistic.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    Andy_JS said:

    I think Trump probably prefers running his businesses to being president. Being in the White House is just an temporary diversion for him.

    A second and third term under a titular puppet President would keep him out of jail, which I suspect is a significant incentive.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    Jonathan said:

    Mundo said:

    ydoethur said:

    Anyway, completely off topic:

    It is now 57 days since the coal fired power stations were switched off.

    Given this is the best time of year for solar and probably wind as well, plus a collapse in the demand for power, my suspicion is that they will not be turned on again until October.

    I wonder a bit actually whether they will ever be turned on again. Most of them were due to shut over the next two years anyway, and they’re not the sort of facility that takes kindly to being mothballed.

    At the moment, on average gas is providing around a third of our electricity, renewables 28% and domestic nuclear 20%, the balance coming from biomass, hydro, France and pumped storage. THis has cut carbon dioxide emissions from around 452g/kWh in 2009 to just 146g/kWh on average now - it has dipped as low as 43g/kWh on some very sunny, windy days.

    So, progress, with the usual caveats and reservations.

    That is an impressive drop of 68% - why have we not heard more about this over the last 10 years. Unalloyed good news. Epic communication fail.
    We have heard a lot but its never good enough until it gets to zero apparently.
    A significant minority on the right spent years telling us renewables didn’t work, even today their suspicious of it and dislike wind farms.
    Yes, it is progress, and my new Electric car in combination with Green Octopus energy is my own personal step.

    A friend of mine whose 10 year old son has terrible asthma, with multiple admissions each year reports that his chest is better than ever over the last 3 months. When I drive into Leicester, the clarity of the air is noticeable. The petrochemical smog is gone, for now at least.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708


    Hopefully enough will realise that it is him or the end of the Republic in any shape that is recognizable.

    I worried about that when he was first elected but now wouldn't put it that strongly. Trump's main interest is in petty grievances and stealing, the republic would probably survive it.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,805
    ydoethur said:

    Officially now Joe Biden vs Donald Trump then

    https://news.sky.com/story/joe-biden-formally-secures-democratic-presidential-nomination-12001449

    Sigh. Was Joe really the best the Democrats could put up?

    Well, they'd have been better going with KLOBUCHAR, but there's a lot to be said for Biden. The main argument that Trump might win in November is that he's very effective at attacking. Biden is a great candidate to run against that, because the voters are very familiar with him and like him, which is why nothing has really stuck at this point. If they'd gone for someone less well-known Trump would have a lot more scope to tell a story about them before they had a chance to tell their own.

    I know he's old, but in the US they don't seem to care much about that, and the idea that he's got dementia wouldn't set Trump up well for a debate since Biden has been practicing all year and can follow an argument and make coherent points, and Trump can't.
    Trump’s problem with attacking Biden’s mental faculties is that even a cursory glance at Trump’s twitter feed raises very serious questions over his own mental state.
    But as we have seen from Trump rallies lots are too stupid to make that correlation.

    Just look at the birther issue. They won't accept the evidence shown to them that Obama was born in the US. When the same nutty arguments they use to dismiss the evidence is put for therefore showing Trump might not be American then the response is 'Why would you say that?' and they have a puzzled look on their face.

    Simply put Obama in Kenyan and Trump is American regardless of the evidence or lack of for either. Similarly Biden is senile and any evidence that Trump maybe a few sandwiches short of a picnic is inconceivable nonsense.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Mundo said:

    ydoethur said:

    Anyway, completely off topic:

    It is now 57 days since the coal fired power stations were switched off.

    Given this is the best time of year for solar and probably wind as well, plus a collapse in the demand for power, my suspicion is that they will not be turned on again until October.

    I wonder a bit actually whether they will ever be turned on again. Most of them were due to shut over the next two years anyway, and they’re not the sort of facility that takes kindly to being mothballed.

    At the moment, on average gas is providing around a third of our electricity, renewables 28% and domestic nuclear 20%, the balance coming from biomass, hydro, France and pumped storage. THis has cut carbon dioxide emissions from around 452g/kWh in 2009 to just 146g/kWh on average now - it has dipped as low as 43g/kWh on some very sunny, windy days.

    So, progress, with the usual caveats and reservations.

    That is an impressive drop of 68% - why have we not heard more about this over the last 10 years. Unalloyed good news. Epic communication fail.
    It’s getting close to the levels that Aber had when I was a student there - and most of our electricity came from hydropower. It was described as a ridiculously green town, indeed one of the greenest in Europe, at the time, and yet we’re now getting very close to the whole country being at that level.

    If David Cameron’s premiership was ultimately not a great success, he should certainly take satisfaction from the way his government oversaw so many changes to the energy mix that as recently as 2010 seemed utterly impossible.
This discussion has been closed.