Barnier's arrogance and attitude is going to collapse these talks
12 months ago I had this opinion and was considered extreme here for doing so. It seems to be becoming mainstream now.
....yet it is Johnson who hasn't stood by 4 statements he agreed to in the WA?....
That the Tories have lied consistently on Brexit for a number of years really shouldn't surprise anyone. Some things they wil get away with. Others will be less easy to explain away ... https://twitter.com/BBCCountryfile/status/1215284448129880066
I'm not surprised Barnier is pissed off with us. How can you negotiate with liars and cheats.
Barnier's problem, like many others, is he has not accepted we are leaving and wants to restrict the UK's ability to make it own laws and trade
Nope, the UK can do as it wishes. But if it wants a trade deal with the EU it will have to agree to certain conditions. If it doesn't, there will be no deal. In the same way, the UK will have to lower its animal welfare standards if it wants to do a trade deal with the US. Our power is the power to say no. We then live with the consequences.
So like how Canada agreed LPF conditions when it negotiated a trade deal with the EU? Which the UK is offering to copy and paste.
Something like that, is that what you mean?
I cannot second guess the EU's motives. However, I suspect that if it doesn't believe that what the UK is offering is in its best interests it will not agree to what the UK is offering. Our choice is then to back down or walk away and to live with the consequences. It looks like we are going to walk away. I think we are best off doing it sooner rather than later as that way we may stand more chance of mitigating at least some of the harm.
I agree 100%
I also think if we're going to walk away then doing so under the cloak of COVID19 is the best possible timing.
So that any negatives can be blamed on the pandemic? Shows how low tories can go.
Barnier's arrogance and attitude is going to collapse these talks
12 months ago I had this opinion and was considered extreme here for doing so. It seems to be becoming mainstream now.
....yet it is Johnson who hasn't stood by 4 statements he agreed to in the WA?....
That the Tories have lied consistently on Brexit for a number of years really shouldn't surprise anyone. Some things they wil get away with. Others will be less easy to explain away ... https://twitter.com/BBCCountryfile/status/1215284448129880066
I'm not surprised Barnier is pissed off with us. How can you negotiate with liars and cheats.
Barnier's problem, like many others, is he has not accepted we are leaving and wants to restrict the UK's ability to make it own laws and trade
So you believe that Britain should rat on commitments it signed up to last year?
The UK voted to leave, not to be tied to EU law on tax and state aid and were originally offered a Canada style deal
The EU in your words 'ratted' on it
There are no good outcomes here and as Germany takes over the EU presidency the word out of Germany that Merkel wants a deal and by September is promising
There is no point in extended the deadlock paying billions more into the EU
who offered a Canada style agreement\?
Barnier. On a number of occasions, right up until the day we said yes, that’s what we want too.
This is highly disingenuous. What we are asking for goes well beyond a Canada-style agreement.
Then the EU can push back on whatever goes beyond if they want.
That's not what they want though. Oh well. I see you're ignoring the fact this whole timetabling and not settling this sooner was their preference.
We agreed a treaty which proposes the framework of an association agreement as the structure of the future relationship.
No it doesn't.
The Political Declaration was not legally binding and it doesn't propose that.
"Good polling news for Labour, as three consecutive polls suggest the party has pulled ahead. Survation shows Labour four points ahead of the Tories (35 per cent to 31 per cent), Panelbase has it six points ahead (37 per cent to 31 per cent), and TNS gives the party a three-point lead (33 per cent to 31 per cent).
Survation also shows Ed Miliband beating David Cameron in net approval ratings for the first time."
Big push to incentivise electric vehicles in Germany:
Electric vehicle tax exemption prolonged from ending in 2025 to end 2030 Increase of vehicle tax for CO2 heavy vehicles A decrease in electricity cost to consumers and business Support of the car industry (including suppliers) R&D of 2 billion in the next two years Support of fleet electrification for social NGOs worth €200 million Support of EV R&D, charging infrastructure and battery manufacturing worth 2.5 billion euros (plan to require every gas station to have charging points) Program to electrify commercial and public bus and truck fleets worth 1.2 billion until the end of 2021, including a subsidy for electric buses and their charging infrastructure. Lowering of VAT from 19% to 16% for the second half of 2020 Increase of EV subsidy from €3,000 to €6,000 until the end of 2021
Barnier's arrogance and attitude is going to collapse these talks
12 months ago I had this opinion and was considered extreme here for doing so. It seems to be becoming mainstream now.
....yet it is Johnson who hasn't stood by 4 statements he agreed to in the WA?....
That the Tories have lied consistently on Brexit for a number of years really shouldn't surprise anyone. Some things they wil get away with. Others will be less easy to explain away ... https://twitter.com/BBCCountryfile/status/1215284448129880066
I'm not surprised Barnier is pissed off with us. How can you negotiate with liars and cheats.
Barnier's problem, like many others, is he has not accepted we are leaving and wants to restrict the UK's ability to make it own laws and trade
Nope, the UK can do as it wishes. But if it wants a trade deal with the EU it will have to agree to certain conditions. If it doesn't, there will be no deal. In the same way, the UK will have to lower its animal welfare standards if it wants to do a trade deal with the US. Our power is the power to say no. We then live with the consequences.
So like how Canada agreed LPF conditions when it negotiated a trade deal with the EU? Which the UK is offering to copy and paste.
Something like that, is that what you mean?
I cannot second guess the EU's motives. However, I suspect that if it doesn't believe that what the UK is offering is in its best interests it will not agree to what the UK is offering. Our choice is then to back down or walk away and to live with the consequences. It looks like we are going to walk away. I think we are best off doing it sooner rather than later as that way we may stand more chance of mitigating at least some of the harm.
I agree 100%
I also think if we're going to walk away then doing so under the cloak of COVID19 is the best possible timing.
So that any negatives can be blamed on the pandemic? Shows how low tories can go.
No, because the prime concern with No Deal that you guys kept screaming at us was that it could lead to queues and a decrease in trade.
COVID19 has led to a decrease in trade and queues.
If your threat has already happened its no longer a threat.
Barnier's arrogance and attitude is going to collapse these talks
12 months ago I had this opinion and was considered extreme here for doing so. It seems to be becoming mainstream now.
....yet it is Johnson who hasn't stood by 4 statements he agreed to in the WA?....
That the Tories have lied consistently on Brexit for a number of years really shouldn't surprise anyone. Some things they wil get away with. Others will be less easy to explain away ... https://twitter.com/BBCCountryfile/status/1215284448129880066
I'm not surprised Barnier is pissed off with us. How can you negotiate with liars and cheats.
Barnier's problem, like many others, is he has not accepted we are leaving and wants to restrict the UK's ability to make it own laws and trade
So you believe that Britain should rat on commitments it signed up to last year?
The UK voted to leave, not to be tied to EU law on tax and state aid and were originally offered a Canada style deal
The EU in your words 'ratted' on it
There are no good outcomes here and as Germany takes over the EU presidency the word out of Germany that Merkel wants a deal and by September is promising
There is no point in extended the deadlock paying billions more into the EU
I’ll ask again, since you ignored my question and then spun your own fantasy:
You believe that Britain should rat on commitments it signed up to last year?
And I will ask are you happy Barnier ratted on Canada
And we can go on like this forever as on the EU we will never agree
Britain signed up to an approach which it is ratting on. The EU did not. There simply isn’t an equivalent, no matter how you might wish it otherwise.
I hope excuses aren't found to continue to make people wear masks on public transport once Covid-19 is no longer around. I can almost hear someone arguing "people should carry on wearing facemasks in order to stop the spread of seasonal flu".
The only question is whether we get further waves of any significance. We may not, if the "potency" of the virus has lessened, as some experts have said it might have.
Indeed but there is, thankfully, no evidence of any further waves anywhere at the moment even where the relaxations have been more extensive than anything we have so far risked here. Its too early to be absolutely sure but it is encouraging.
I hope excuses aren't found to continue to make people wear masks on public transport once Covid-19 is no longer around. I can almost hear someone arguing "people should carry on wearing facemasks in order to stop the spread of seasonal flu".
I imagine it'll change from requirement to advice at some point.
I think that Alok Sharma is one of the less useless ministers, and I wish him well. His coronavirus test was announced to be negative, but so it is in 30% of Covid19 cases. If this really was just "a bad case of hayfever" as one MP suggested, he would have been wheeled out on public show. Clearly Cummings and Boris (or Cummings and Goings) and Moggy know what a disaster it would be if he had been announced to be positive. Perhaps he has just been told to hide and they are hoping for the best. Perhaps the test wasn't negative (he's as entitled to medical privacy, as we all are). If he does have Covid19 he is in a high risk group, BAME, male, middle aged and overweight. I suppose they could always bury him at sea if all else fails. Poor chap.
We are currently waiting for a home test kit to arrive but our doctor friend who has kept us well up to speed throughout the crisis advises us not to take the result too seriously. They're not useless but they're not terrifically accurate either.
Big push to incentivise electric vehicles in Germany:
Electric vehicle tax exemption prolonged from ending in 2025 to end 2030 Increase of vehicle tax for CO2 heavy vehicles A decrease in electricity cost to consumers and business Support of the car industry (including suppliers) R&D of 2 billion in the next two years Support of fleet electrification for social NGOs worth €200 million Support of EV R&D, charging infrastructure and battery manufacturing worth 2.5 billion euros (plan to require every gas station to have charging points) Program to electrify commercial and public bus and truck fleets worth 1.2 billion until the end of 2021, including a subsidy for electric buses and their charging infrastructure. Lowering of VAT from 19% to 16% for the second half of 2020 Increase of EV subsidy from €3,000 to €6,000 until the end of 2021
Looks like it. This is also consistent with the daily 4.5%ish drop in the death rate we've been observing since mid-April. Also, the longer-term predictions of the ICL model - which frankly looks better and better as time goes on.
I think that Alok Sharma is one of the less useless ministers, and I wish him well. His coronavirus test was announced to be negative, but so it is in 30% of Covid19 cases. If this really was just "a bad case of hayfever" as one MP suggested, he would have been wheeled out on public show. Clearly Cummings and Boris (or Cummings and Goings) and Moggy know what a disaster it would be if he had been announced to be positive. Perhaps he has just been told to hide and they are hoping for the best. Perhaps the test wasn't negative (he's as entitled to medical privacy, as we all are). If he does have Covid19 he is in a high risk group, BAME, male, middle aged and overweight. I suppose they could always bury him at sea if all else fails. Poor chap.
We are currently waiting for a home test kit to arrive but our doctor friend who has kept us well up to speed throughout the crisis advises us not to take the result too seriously. They're not useless but they're not terrifically accurate either.
Five days before official lockdown was already into unofficial lockdown. I think people are starting to forget that Johnson's decree didn't come as much of a surprise...
the myth that we were doing nothing until March 23 has already taken hold.
Indeed.
My employer started letting people work from home nearly two weeks prior to the official lockdown.
My last day in the office was the 16th of March and at the time I posted on here that I had decided not to go to the Liverpool v Atletico Madrid match on March 11th.
The bigger personality always wins... and it's 64-30 to Boris
Have we polling on this from previous leader clashes?
That'd explain loads about where we currently are. People preferring bullshit over competence. You're probably right though
You just know that this lot are going to make as big a cock up of Brexit as they have of Coronavirus. But what the hell, that Boris bloke seems like a good laugh.
"This week Spain reported what should have been cause for huge celebrations: according to the official coronavirus statistics, there were no new deaths in the 48 hours to midday on Tuesday.
Yet on the same day, at least two regions — Madrid and Castile-La Mancha — reported 17 deaths from the virus between them. The health ministry insisted it had not been informed of any death that had taken place in the previous 24 hours.
The confusion, in one of the countries worst hit by the pandemic, underlines what experts say is a big challenge as Spain relaxes its lockdown: a misleading impression that the coronavirus threat is past, which could encourage people to behave reckless"
Barnier's arrogance and attitude is going to collapse these talks
12 months ago I had this opinion and was considered extreme here for doing so. It seems to be becoming mainstream now.
....yet it is Johnson who hasn't stood by 4 statements he agreed to in the WA?....
That the Tories have lied consistently on Brexit for a number of years really shouldn't surprise anyone. Some things they wil get away with. Others will be less easy to explain away ... https://twitter.com/BBCCountryfile/status/1215284448129880066
I'm not surprised Barnier is pissed off with us. How can you negotiate with liars and cheats.
Barnier's problem, like many others, is he has not accepted we are leaving and wants to restrict the UK's ability to make it own laws and trade
So you believe that Britain should rat on commitments it signed up to last year?
The UK voted to leave, not to be tied to EU law on tax and state aid and were originally offered a Canada style deal
The EU in your words 'ratted' on it
There are no good outcomes here and as Germany takes over the EU presidency the word out of Germany that Merkel wants a deal and by September is promising
There is no point in extended the deadlock paying billions more into the EU
who offered a Canada style agreement\?
Barnier. On a number of occasions, right up until the day we said yes, that’s what we want too.
This is highly disingenuous. What we are asking for goes well beyond a Canada-style agreement.
Then the EU can push back on whatever goes beyond if they want.
That's not what they want though. Oh well. I see you're ignoring the fact this whole timetabling and not settling this sooner was their preference.
We agreed a treaty which proposes the framework of an association agreement as the structure of the future relationship.
No it doesn't.
The Political Declaration was not legally binding and it doesn't propose that.
It really doesn't. Clauses 118-120 are no more than an agreement to agree and does not commit either party to anything. The EU are of course entitled to say what they want and to refuse to agree anything else but the argument that we are somehow going back on what we committed to is just unstateable.
I think that Alok Sharma is one of the less useless ministers, and I wish him well. His coronavirus test was announced to be negative, but so it is in 30% of Covid19 cases. If this really was just "a bad case of hayfever" as one MP suggested, he would have been wheeled out on public show. Clearly Cummings and Boris (or Cummings and Goings) and Moggy know what a disaster it would be if he had been announced to be positive. Perhaps he has just been told to hide and they are hoping for the best. Perhaps the test wasn't negative (he's as entitled to medical privacy, as we all are). If he does have Covid19 he is in a high risk group, BAME, male, middle aged and overweight. I suppose they could always bury him at sea if all else fails. Poor chap.
We are currently waiting for a home test kit to arrive but our doctor friend who has kept us well up to speed throughout the crisis advises us not to take the result too seriously. They're not useless but they're not terrifically accurate either.
Worrying.
On a population level it should even out but yes it'd be better for people to know whether they've got it or not.
The bigger personality always wins... and it's 64-30 to Boris
Have we polling on this from previous leader clashes?
You mean like Clem Attlee versus Churchill at GE1945
Or Wilson versus Heath at GE1970
Or Kinnock versus Major at GE1992
No I mean in modern times, where reality tv is king.
Since 97 the personality has won every time except 2017, I'm checking the polling now to see if it backs up my theory
Sample of 7 and you're immediately excluding 1 result you don't like ?
I'm not excluding it! On the contrary, I think someone without personality being 20 odd points ahead in the polls failing to get a majority backs it up
Barnier's arrogance and attitude is going to collapse these talks
12 months ago I had this opinion and was considered extreme here for doing so. It seems to be becoming mainstream now.
....yet it is Johnson who hasn't stood by 4 statements he agreed to in the WA?....
That the Tories have lied consistently on Brexit for a number of years really shouldn't surprise anyone. Some things they wil get away with. Others will be less easy to explain away ... https://twitter.com/BBCCountryfile/status/1215284448129880066
I'm not surprised Barnier is pissed off with us. How can you negotiate with liars and cheats.
Barnier's problem, like many others, is he has not accepted we are leaving and wants to restrict the UK's ability to make it own laws and trade
So you believe that Britain should rat on commitments it signed up to last year?
The UK voted to leave, not to be tied to EU law on tax and state aid and were originally offered a Canada style deal
The EU in your words 'ratted' on it
There are no good outcomes here and as Germany takes over the EU presidency the word out of Germany that Merkel wants a deal and by September is promising
There is no point in extended the deadlock paying billions more into the EU
who offered a Canada style agreement\?
Barnier. On a number of occasions, right up until the day we said yes, that’s what we want too.
This is highly disingenuous. What we are asking for goes well beyond a Canada-style agreement.
Then the EU can push back on whatever goes beyond if they want.
That's not what they want though. Oh well. I see you're ignoring the fact this whole timetabling and not settling this sooner was their preference.
We agreed a treaty which proposes the framework of an association agreement as the structure of the future relationship.
No it doesn't.
The Political Declaration was not legally binding and it doesn't propose that.
I think that Alok Sharma is one of the less useless ministers, and I wish him well. His coronavirus test was announced to be negative, but so it is in 30% of Covid19 cases. If this really was just "a bad case of hayfever" as one MP suggested, he would have been wheeled out on public show. Clearly Cummings and Boris (or Cummings and Goings) and Moggy know what a disaster it would be if he had been announced to be positive. Perhaps he has just been told to hide and they are hoping for the best. Perhaps the test wasn't negative (he's as entitled to medical privacy, as we all are). If he does have Covid19 he is in a high risk group, BAME, male, middle aged and overweight. I suppose they could always bury him at sea if all else fails. Poor chap.
We are currently waiting for a home test kit to arrive but our doctor friend who has kept us well up to speed throughout the crisis advises us not to take the result too seriously. They're not useless but they're not terrifically accurate either.
I think they're pretty accurate if they say you've got it. False negatives run around 20%, though (often owing to sampling error).
Barnier's arrogance and attitude is going to collapse these talks
12 months ago I had this opinion and was considered extreme here for doing so. It seems to be becoming mainstream now.
....yet it is Johnson who hasn't stood by 4 statements he agreed to in the WA?....
That the Tories have lied consistently on Brexit for a number of years really shouldn't surprise anyone. Some things they wil get away with. Others will be less easy to explain away ... https://twitter.com/BBCCountryfile/status/1215284448129880066
I'm not surprised Barnier is pissed off with us. How can you negotiate with liars and cheats.
Barnier's problem, like many others, is he has not accepted we are leaving and wants to restrict the UK's ability to make it own laws and trade
So you believe that Britain should rat on commitments it signed up to last year?
Let's be honest Boris probably can't even remember which commitments he signed up to last year. Perhaps Cummings hasn't even told him yet
Barnier's arrogance and attitude is going to collapse these talks
12 months ago I had this opinion and was considered extreme here for doing so. It seems to be becoming mainstream now.
....yet it is Johnson who hasn't stood by 4 statements he agreed to in the WA?....
That the Tories have lied consistently on Brexit for a number of years really shouldn't surprise anyone. Some things they wil get away with. Others will be less easy to explain away ... https://twitter.com/BBCCountryfile/status/1215284448129880066
I'm not surprised Barnier is pissed off with us. How can you negotiate with liars and cheats.
Barnier's problem, like many others, is he has not accepted we are leaving and wants to restrict the UK's ability to make it own laws and trade
So you believe that Britain should rat on commitments it signed up to last year?
The UK voted to leave, not to be tied to EU law on tax and state aid and were originally offered a Canada style deal
The EU in your words 'ratted' on it
There are no good outcomes here and as Germany takes over the EU presidency the word out of Germany that Merkel wants a deal and by September is promising
There is no point in extended the deadlock paying billions more into the EU
who offered a Canada style agreement\?
Barnier. On a number of occasions, right up until the day we said yes, that’s what we want too.
This is highly disingenuous. What we are asking for goes well beyond a Canada-style agreement.
Then the EU can push back on whatever goes beyond if they want.
That's not what they want though. Oh well. I see you're ignoring the fact this whole timetabling and not settling this sooner was their preference.
We agreed a treaty which proposes the framework of an association agreement as the structure of the future relationship.
No it doesn't.
The Political Declaration was not legally binding and it doesn't propose that.
I hope excuses aren't found to continue to make people wear masks on public transport once Covid-19 is no longer around. I can almost hear someone arguing "people should carry on wearing facemasks in order to stop the spread of seasonal flu".
It's going to be with us into next year, so for now the point is moot. And if all we have to do until then is wear masks to keep it under control, that would be an excellent outcome.
Take the ONS survey data, infections are halving in about a fortnight, which is roughly what the smoothed death data have shown since the peak. 7000 ish new infections per day, so maybe 70ish deaths per day down the line.
So when does the prevalence become low enough for a wobbly Track'n'Trace system to take the load of keeping R down? Probably quite soon, probably not yet.
The bigger personality always wins... and it's 64-30 to Boris
Have we polling on this from previous leader clashes?
You mean like Clem Attlee versus Churchill at GE1945
Or Wilson versus Heath at GE1970
Or Kinnock versus Major at GE1992
No I mean in modern times, where reality tv is king.
Since 97 the personality has won every time except 2017, I'm checking the polling now to see if it backs up my theory
You might have something here. Perhaps we are more impressed with "big characters" in politics than we used to be - or (imo) ought to be.
But I detect a change in the air. The ultimate in electing somebody based on flamboyant bullshit was Trump in 2016. And given this was America it had an influence stretching far and wide.
So by the same token when he is rejected at the polls in November this too may have ramifications on political life elsewhere. His election in 2016 may prove the high watermark of "colourful" populist politicians winning elections. His defeat in 2020 the sign that the tide has turned.
I really think so. I can feel a new tomorrow coming on.
Five days before official lockdown was already into unofficial lockdown. I think people are starting to forget that Johnson's decree didn't come as much of a surprise...
the myth that we were doing nothing until March 23 has already taken hold.
Indeed.
My employer started letting people work from home nearly two weeks prior to the official lockdown.
My last day in the office was the 16th of March and at the time I posted on here that I had decided not to go to the Liverpool v Atletico Madrid match on March 11th.
10th March I attended a meeting in a client's office. 11th I was due to attend a conference and thought 'bugger that!'. I've been WFH since then.
The bigger personality always wins... and it's 64-30 to Boris
Have we polling on this from previous leader clashes?
You mean like Clem Attlee versus Churchill at GE1945
Or Wilson versus Heath at GE1970
Or Kinnock versus Major at GE1992
No I mean in modern times, where reality tv is king.
Since 97 the personality has won every time except 2017, I'm checking the polling now to see if it backs up my theory
Sample of 7 and you're immediately excluding 1 result you don't like ?
I'm not excluding it! On the contrary, I think someone without personality being 20 odd points ahead in the polls failing to get a majority backs it up
The problem for Bozo apologists like yourself is that personality is very useful if you can also show competence. People are beginning to realise that yes, Johnson IS a personality, but he is also incompetent. "Hey Doc, I am going to forgive you for taking out the wrong kidney because you have a much more appealing personality". In spite of the epidemic, people like Isam still have a problem with experts! Duhh!
Boris Johnson spoke of incoming major job losses, as a general rule, the ratings of a PM and the government crater when those job losses become a reality.
Boris Johnson might just break the records set by Brown and May from peak to trough.
Boris Johnson spoke of incoming major job losses, as a general rule, the ratings of a PM and the government crater when those job losses become a reality.
Boris Johnson might just break the records set by Brown and May from peak to trough.
Perhaps, though it'll be interesting to see how the recovery goes too.
Probably a much shallower crater and economic devastation than if the furlough scheme etc hadn't been created.
I hope excuses aren't found to continue to make people wear masks on public transport once Covid-19 is no longer around. I can almost hear someone arguing "people should carry on wearing facemasks in order to stop the spread of seasonal flu".
If "no longer around" means "having developed a vaccine" then I would agree with you. Till that point Covid-19 will most definitely still be around.
Five days before official lockdown was already into unofficial lockdown. I think people are starting to forget that Johnson's decree didn't come as much of a surprise...
the myth that we were doing nothing until March 23 has already taken hold.
Indeed.
My employer started letting people work from home nearly two weeks prior to the official lockdown.
My last day in the office was the 16th of March and at the time I posted on here that I had decided not to go to the Liverpool v Atletico Madrid match on March 11th.
10th March I attended a meeting in a client's office. 11th I was due to attend a conference and thought 'bugger that!'. I've been WFH since then.
We’re in the same boat, work’s pretty much accepted I’ll be working from home for 12 months, at least.
I hope excuses aren't found to continue to make people wear masks on public transport once Covid-19 is no longer around. I can almost hear someone arguing "people should carry on wearing facemasks in order to stop the spread of seasonal flu".
If "no longer around" means "having developed a vaccine" then I would agree with you. Till that point Covid-19 will most definitely still be around.
I hope excuses aren't found to continue to make people wear masks on public transport once Covid-19 is no longer around. I can almost hear someone arguing "people should carry on wearing facemasks in order to stop the spread of seasonal flu".
If "no longer around" means "having developed a vaccine" then I would agree with you. Till that point Covid-19 will most definitely still be around.
Ebola is still around but its not a pandemic in this country.
I do find it consistently amusing that the Brexiteers seem to think that an icon on a PDF means they can pick and choose whichever elements of that particular agreement they like & the other side doesn’t get any say in the matter.
In fact we are doing much of that list in the UK. Billions going on rapid charging infrastructure, for example.
The incentives to buy a zero emission vehicle as a company vehicle are pretty staggering. Makes a Tesla S a cheap option!
Well we should make a lot more noise about it. Where are the next generations of electric cars going to be built? Where can the manufacturers be assured of a welcoming and decent sized domestic market which it is going to be easy to sell into because the infrastructure is in place? There are many, many tens of thousands of jobs at stake here plus the ability of our city dwellers to breathe.
I hope excuses aren't found to continue to make people wear masks on public transport once Covid-19 is no longer around. I can almost hear someone arguing "people should carry on wearing facemasks in order to stop the spread of seasonal flu".
If "no longer around" means "having developed a vaccine" then I would agree with you. Till that point Covid-19 will most definitely still be around.
Personally I'd settle for people using handkerchiefs when they sneeze.
I do find it consistently amusing that the Brexiteers seem to think that an icon on a PDF means they can pick and choose whichever elements of that particular agreement they like & the other side doesn’t get any say in the matter.
The other side get a say, of course they do.
They can agree something we also find agreeable, or we can walk away without a deal.
Barnier's arrogance and attitude is going to collapse these talks
12 months ago I had this opinion and was considered extreme here for doing so. It seems to be becoming mainstream now.
....yet it is Johnson who hasn't stood by 4 statements he agreed to in the WA?....
That the Tories have lied consistently on Brexit for a number of years really shouldn't surprise anyone. Some things they wil get away with. Others will be less easy to explain away ... https://twitter.com/BBCCountryfile/status/1215284448129880066
I'm not surprised Barnier is pissed off with us. How can you negotiate with liars and cheats.
Barnier's problem, like many others, is he has not accepted we are leaving and wants to restrict the UK's ability to make it own laws and trade
Nope, the UK can do as it wishes. But if it wants a trade deal with the EU it will have to agree to certain conditions. If it doesn't, there will be no deal. In the same way, the UK will have to lower its animal welfare standards if it wants to do a trade deal with the US. Our power is the power to say no. We then live with the consequences.
So like how Canada agreed LPF conditions when it negotiated a trade deal with the EU? Which the UK is offering to copy and paste.
Something like that, is that what you mean?
I cannot second guess the EU's motives. However, I suspect that if it doesn't believe that what the UK is offering is in its best interests it will not agree to what the UK is offering. Our choice is then to back down or walk away and to live with the consequences. It looks like we are going to walk away. I think we are best off doing it sooner rather than later as that way we may stand more chance of mitigating at least some of the harm.
I agree 100%
I also think if we're going to walk away then doing so under the cloak of COVID19 is the best possible timing.
So that any negatives can be blamed on the pandemic? Shows how low tories can go.
No, because the prime concern with No Deal that you guys kept screaming at us was that it could lead to queues and a decrease in trade.
COVID19 has led to a decrease in trade and queues.
If your threat has already happened its no longer a threat.
Covid-10 was a demand shock. Brexit will be a supply shock.
That's totally unexpected, a small sign of recovery from where there hasn't been as much government support as in the UK.
Interesting that the lack of a furlough scheme is already seeing 'positive' headlines in the States - whereas in the UK, with an objectively much better scheme in place to protect jobs, the headlines as it is withdrawn are going to be entirely negative for the government.
The bigger personality always wins... and it's 64-30 to Boris
Have we polling on this from previous leader clashes?
That'd explain loads about where we currently are. People preferring bullshit over competence. You're probably right though
You just know that this lot are going to make as big a cock up of Brexit as they have of Coronavirus. But what the hell, that Boris bloke seems like a good laugh.
I'm afraid he does have appeal to apoliticals on exactly that basis. And there are lots of apoliticals. It is something I struggle to relate to but there are many many people in the country who take no interest whatsoever in politics.
"Life's too short. And they're all the same anyway".
"Yeah. Apart from that Boris. At least he's a laugh and doesn't take himself too seriously".
One wishes to throttle but one must not. One must keep trying to win hearts and minds.
Barnier's arrogance and attitude is going to collapse these talks
12 months ago I had this opinion and was considered extreme here for doing so. It seems to be becoming mainstream now.
....yet it is Johnson who hasn't stood by 4 statements he agreed to in the WA?....
That the Tories have lied consistently on Brexit for a number of years really shouldn't surprise anyone. Some things they wil get away with. Others will be less easy to explain away ... https://twitter.com/BBCCountryfile/status/1215284448129880066
I'm not surprised Barnier is pissed off with us. How can you negotiate with liars and cheats.
Barnier's problem, like many others, is he has not accepted we are leaving and wants to restrict the UK's ability to make it own laws and trade
Nope, the UK can do as it wishes. But if it wants a trade deal with the EU it will have to agree to certain conditions. If it doesn't, there will be no deal. In the same way, the UK will have to lower its animal welfare standards if it wants to do a trade deal with the US. Our power is the power to say no. We then live with the consequences.
So like how Canada agreed LPF conditions when it negotiated a trade deal with the EU? Which the UK is offering to copy and paste.
Something like that, is that what you mean?
I cannot second guess the EU's motives. However, I suspect that if it doesn't believe that what the UK is offering is in its best interests it will not agree to what the UK is offering. Our choice is then to back down or walk away and to live with the consequences. It looks like we are going to walk away. I think we are best off doing it sooner rather than later as that way we may stand more chance of mitigating at least some of the harm.
I agree 100%
I also think if we're going to walk away then doing so under the cloak of COVID19 is the best possible timing.
So that any negatives can be blamed on the pandemic? Shows how low tories can go.
No, because the prime concern with No Deal that you guys kept screaming at us was that it could lead to queues and a decrease in trade.
COVID19 has led to a decrease in trade and queues.
If your threat has already happened its no longer a threat.
Rule #1 of investing: if something has gone down by 90% it doesn't mean it can't go down by another 90%.
Five days before official lockdown was already into unofficial lockdown. I think people are starting to forget that Johnson's decree didn't come as much of a surprise...
the myth that we were doing nothing until March 23 has already taken hold.
Indeed.
My employer started letting people work from home nearly two weeks prior to the official lockdown.
My last day in the office was the 16th of March and at the time I posted on here that I had decided not to go to the Liverpool v Atletico Madrid match on March 11th.
10th March I attended a meeting in a client's office. 11th I was due to attend a conference and thought 'bugger that!'. I've been WFH since then.
I was ordered to not come back into the office after March 4th so started WfH on the 5th. I'm approaching 100 days next week of not having gone outside town.
Barnier's arrogance and attitude is going to collapse these talks
12 months ago I had this opinion and was considered extreme here for doing so. It seems to be becoming mainstream now.
....yet it is Johnson who hasn't stood by 4 statements he agreed to in the WA?....
That the Tories have lied consistently on Brexit for a number of years really shouldn't surprise anyone. Some things they wil get away with. Others will be less easy to explain away ... https://twitter.com/BBCCountryfile/status/1215284448129880066
I'm not surprised Barnier is pissed off with us. How can you negotiate with liars and cheats.
Barnier's problem, like many others, is he has not accepted we are leaving and wants to restrict the UK's ability to make it own laws and trade
I see where you're coming from Big G, but I disagree - this isn't really down the the personality (or the personality defects) of Barnier. As came out in his responses to the press conference questions, there's nothing he can really do. He's a puppet negotiator - all he's there to do is say 'Non' to everything, and if an 11th hour solution is to be found it will be (as before) Merkel, Boris and Macron who 'make the breakthrough'. David Frost is the same to an extent, though I imagine his relationship with Boris is less formal, and he could quite quickly get Boris to acquiesce to something if necessary. Barnier is doing the best job he can with the hand he's been dealt.
I think that Alok Sharma is one of the less useless ministers, and I wish him well. His coronavirus test was announced to be negative, but so it is in 30% of Covid19 cases. If this really was just "a bad case of hayfever" as one MP suggested, he would have been wheeled out on public show. Clearly Cummings and Boris (or Cummings and Goings) and Moggy know what a disaster it would be if he had been announced to be positive. Perhaps he has just been told to hide and they are hoping for the best. Perhaps the test wasn't negative (he's as entitled to medical privacy, as we all are). If he does have Covid19 he is in a high risk group, BAME, male, middle aged and overweight. I suppose they could always bury him at sea if all else fails. Poor chap.
We are currently waiting for a home test kit to arrive but our doctor friend who has kept us well up to speed throughout the crisis advises us not to take the result too seriously. They're not useless but they're not terrifically accurate either.
I think they're pretty accurate if they say you've got it. False negatives run around 20%, though (often owing to sampling error).
Big push to incentivise electric vehicles in Germany:
Electric vehicle tax exemption prolonged from ending in 2025 to end 2030 Increase of vehicle tax for CO2 heavy vehicles A decrease in electricity cost to consumers and business Support of the car industry (including suppliers) R&D of 2 billion in the next two years Support of fleet electrification for social NGOs worth €200 million Support of EV R&D, charging infrastructure and battery manufacturing worth 2.5 billion euros (plan to require every gas station to have charging points) Program to electrify commercial and public bus and truck fleets worth 1.2 billion until the end of 2021, including a subsidy for electric buses and their charging infrastructure. Lowering of VAT from 19% to 16% for the second half of 2020 Increase of EV subsidy from €3,000 to €6,000 until the end of 2021
This is the sort of thing we should be focusing on, not reworking our trade relationships.
I speculated on these pages weeks ago that this thing would peak in 60 days and fizzle out by 120.
Possibly that guess was about right?
That would be excellent. I am still somewhat cautious but its looking more promising.
It's going down, but it's a bit early to put out the bunting yet. Peak smoothed deaths on the FT thing was about April 14, 52 days ago. Unless something uniquely British happens to accelerate the decline, it will take about a month to get to France's current death rate and two to get to where Germany currently is. (Both based on the physics teacher method of putting a ruler on the screen while looking at a log-linear graph. Crude, but quick and cheap).
Barnier's arrogance and attitude is going to collapse these talks
12 months ago I had this opinion and was considered extreme here for doing so. It seems to be becoming mainstream now.
....yet it is Johnson who hasn't stood by 4 statements he agreed to in the WA?....
Not true. Barnier is trying to get Boris to agree to things that were not agreed to in the PD.
Take Level Playing Field for instance, the PD says there should be LPF commitments commensurate with the type of free trade agreement agreed. Fair enough.
The UK have responded in this phase of negotiations saying basically "OK we want a Canadian style Trade Agreement with Canadian style LPF agreements as you've already agreed with Canada". That meets the LPF commitments agreed in the WA.
Barnier responds by saying "No" and trying to force something unprecedented that was never part of the PD.
The PD doesn't mean we're committed to whatever form of LPF that the EU wants us to agree to.
The reverse is equally possible - Canada is LPF lite i.e. far lighter than was anticipated within the PD.
The problem is that it wasn't explicitly defined in the PD only roughly sketched out which means it's likely both interpretations are valid.
Nothing in the PD says the LPF will be heavier than what Canada got
Really? 77. Given the Union and the United Kingdom's geographic proximity and economic interdependence, the future relationship must ensure open and fair competition, encompassing robust commitments to ensure a level playing field.
Yes we would need to agree a level playing field.
CETA LPF conditions were a pre-existing precedent when we agreed to that. Where does it rule out CETA LPF conditions? Where did we agree to go further than existing precedence?
Furthermore you've not even quoted the right paragraph and have missed some rather key words in the actual agreement.
XIV. LEVEL PLAYING FIELD FOR OPEN AND FAIR COMPETITION 77. Given the Union and the United Kingdom's geographic proximity and economic interdependence, the future relationship must ensure open and fair competition, encompassing robust commitments to ensure a level playing field. The precise nature of commitments should be commensurate with the scope and depth of the future relationship and the economic connectedness of the Parties. These commitments should prevent distortions of trade and unfair competitive advantages. To that end, the Parties should uphold the common high standards applicable in the Union and the United Kingdom at the end of the transition period in the areas of state aid, competition, social and employment standards, environment, climate change, and relevant tax matters. The Parties should in particular maintain a robust and comprehensive framework for competition and state aid control that prevents undue distortion of trade and competition; commit to the principles of good governance in the area of taxation and to the curbing of harmful tax practices; and maintain environmental, social and employment standards at the current high levels provided by the existing common standards. In so doing, they should rely on appropriate and relevant Union and international standards, and include appropriate mechanisms to ensure effective implementation domestically, enforcement and dispute settlement. The future relationship should also promote adherence to and effective implementation of relevant internationally agreed principles and rules in these domains, including the Paris Agreement.
The agreement specifically says that the precise nature of the commitments haven't been agreed yet and will need to be commensurate with the future relationship. The UK has opted for a future relationship akin to CETA so in the words of the Political Declaration the LPF would need to be commensurate with that.
You may choose to ignore geographic proximity and pre-existing economic interdependence as setting the context for any LPF arrangement. Their appearing in the first sentence means that others, including apparently Barnier, choose not to ignore them. If the U.K. did not intend to accept that geographic proximity and pre-existing economic interdependence were relevant factors, they should have insisted on them being removed from the PD.
The bigger personality always wins... and it's 64-30 to Boris
Have we polling on this from previous leader clashes?
You mean like Clem Attlee versus Churchill at GE1945
Or Wilson versus Heath at GE1970
Or Kinnock versus Major at GE1992
No I mean in modern times, where reality tv is king.
Since 97 the personality has won every time except 2017, I'm checking the polling now to see if it backs up my theory
You might have something here. Perhaps we are more impressed with "big characters" in politics than we used to be - or (imo) ought to be.
But I detect a change in the air. The ultimate in electing somebody based on flamboyant bullshit was Trump in 2016. And given this was America it had an influence stretching far and wide.
So by the same token when he is rejected at the polls in November this too may have ramifications on political life elsewhere. His election in 2016 may prove the high watermark of "colourful" populist politicians winning elections. His defeat in 2020 the sign that the tide has turned.
I really think so. I can feel a new tomorrow coming on.
People said so in 2010. Brown seen as the competent, no frills man for a crisis. I thought so too, made that argument and voted for him.
I hope excuses aren't found to continue to make people wear masks on public transport once Covid-19 is no longer around. I can almost hear someone arguing "people should carry on wearing facemasks in order to stop the spread of seasonal flu".
If "no longer around" means "having developed a vaccine" then I would agree with you. Till that point Covid-19 will most definitely still be around.
It may fizzle out on its own.
By just deciding not to infect anyone? It's a virus, it will infect everyone it can. The only reason it is "fizzling out" is because of the extraordinary measures taken.
"The scale of police violence was astonishing and stomach-churning. Between November 2018 and June 2019, according to figures compiled by Médiapart, 860 protesters were injured by the police – 315 suffered head injuries; 24 lost the use of an eye; and five had hands torn off. In December 2018, an elderly woman who had no involvement in the protests was killed when police threw a grenade into her flat."
The bigger personality always wins... and it's 64-30 to Boris
Have we polling on this from previous leader clashes?
You mean like Clem Attlee versus Churchill at GE1945
Or Wilson versus Heath at GE1970
Or Kinnock versus Major at GE1992
No I mean in modern times, where reality tv is king.
Since 97 the personality has won every time except 2017, I'm checking the polling now to see if it backs up my theory
You might have something here. Perhaps we are more impressed with "big characters" in politics than we used to be - or (imo) ought to be.
But I detect a change in the air. The ultimate in electing somebody based on flamboyant bullshit was Trump in 2016. And given this was America it had an influence stretching far and wide.
So by the same token when he is rejected at the polls in November this too may have ramifications on political life elsewhere. His election in 2016 may prove the high watermark of "colourful" populist politicians winning elections. His defeat in 2020 the sign that the tide has turned.
I really think so. I can feel a new tomorrow coming on.
Leaving to one side the point about characters, you're saying that you think 'people' are about to 'change'. People are not about to change. We have not changed in the entire history of humanity. We're not going to start now because a country elected a boorish President.
I do find it consistently amusing that the Brexiteers seem to think that an icon on a PDF means they can pick and choose whichever elements of that particular agreement they like & the other side doesn’t get any say in the matter.
The other side get a say, of course they do.
They can agree something we also find agreeable, or we can walk away without a deal.
That's simple and reasonable isn't it?
Sure. Apart from the whole "easiest trade deal in history" thing.
I would have complete respect for your position, if the Brexiteer case had actually been honest with the population about what a "take back control" Brexit meant. That the inexorable logic of "take back control" means exiting all trade agreements with the EU. Trade agreements require giving up some control, it’s in their nature.
But the Brexiteers were never interested in explaining this to the population because it undermined their case. Instead, the Leave campaign was built around the simple lie that "take back control" didn’t mean dumping the trade agreement with our largest trade partner on the ground & setting fire to it.
The entire post-referendum period has been the inexorable result of this lie unravelling, yet without the lie the Leave campaign would never have won.
Barnier's arrogance and attitude is going to collapse these talks
12 months ago I had this opinion and was considered extreme here for doing so. It seems to be becoming mainstream now.
....yet it is Johnson who hasn't stood by 4 statements he agreed to in the WA?....
Not true. Barnier is trying to get Boris to agree to things that were not agreed to in the PD.
Take Level Playing Field for instance, the PD says there should be LPF commitments commensurate with the type of free trade agreement agreed. Fair enough.
The UK have responded in this phase of negotiations saying basically "OK we want a Canadian style Trade Agreement with Canadian style LPF agreements as you've already agreed with Canada". That meets the LPF commitments agreed in the WA.
Barnier responds by saying "No" and trying to force something unprecedented that was never part of the PD.
The PD doesn't mean we're committed to whatever form of LPF that the EU wants us to agree to.
The reverse is equally possible - Canada is LPF lite i.e. far lighter than was anticipated within the PD.
The problem is that it wasn't explicitly defined in the PD only roughly sketched out which means it's likely both interpretations are valid.
Nothing in the PD says the LPF will be heavier than what Canada got
Really? 77. Given the Union and the United Kingdom's geographic proximity and economic interdependence, the future relationship must ensure open and fair competition, encompassing robust commitments to ensure a level playing field.
Yes we would need to agree a level playing field.
CETA LPF conditions were a pre-existing precedent when we agreed to that. Where does it rule out CETA LPF conditions? Where did we agree to go further than existing precedence?
Furthermore you've not even quoted the right paragraph and have missed some rather key words in the actual agreement.
XIV. LEVEL PLAYING FIELD FOR OPEN AND FAIR COMPETITION 77. Given the Union and the United Kingdom's geographic proximity and economic interdependence, the future relationship must ensure open and fair competition, encompassing robust commitments to ensure a level playing field. The precise nature of commitments should be commensurate with the scope and depth of the future relationship and the economic connectedness of the Parties. These commitments should prevent distortions of trade and unfair competitive advantages. To that end, the Parties should uphold the common high standards applicable in the Union and the United Kingdom at the end of the transition period in the areas of state aid, competition, social and employment standards, environment, climate change, and relevant tax matters. The Parties should in particular maintain a robust and comprehensive framework for competition and state aid control that prevents undue distortion of trade and competition; commit to the principles of good governance in the area of taxation and to the curbing of harmful tax practices; and maintain environmental, social and employment standards at the current high levels provided by the existing common standards. In so doing, they should rely on appropriate and relevant Union and international standards, and include appropriate mechanisms to ensure effective implementation domestically, enforcement and dispute settlement. The future relationship should also promote adherence to and effective implementation of relevant internationally agreed principles and rules in these domains, including the Paris Agreement.
The agreement specifically says that the precise nature of the commitments haven't been agreed yet and will need to be commensurate with the future relationship. The UK has opted for a future relationship akin to CETA so in the words of the Political Declaration the LPF would need to be commensurate with that.
You may choose to ignore geographic proximity and pre-existing economic interdependence as setting the context for any LPF arrangement. Their appearing in the first sentence means that others, including apparently Barnier, choose not to ignore them. If the U.K. did not intend to accept that geographic proximity and pre-existing economic interdependence were relevant factors, they should have insisted on them being removed from the PD.
The UK has addressed both factors in Frost's letter.
Either way the whole thing is summed up with it saying the LPF is to be commensurate and to be negotiated. That means that no set LPF had ever been agreed.
Five days before official lockdown was already into unofficial lockdown. I think people are starting to forget that Johnson's decree didn't come as much of a surprise...
the myth that we were doing nothing until March 23 has already taken hold.
Indeed.
My employer started letting people work from home nearly two weeks prior to the official lockdown.
My last day in the office was the 16th of March and at the time I posted on here that I had decided not to go to the Liverpool v Atletico Madrid match on March 11th.
10th March I attended a meeting in a client's office. 11th I was due to attend a conference and thought 'bugger that!'. I've been WFH since then.
We’re in the same boat, work’s pretty much accepted I’ll be working from home for 12 months, at least.
My wife was reassessed and removed from the shielding list. However, since we are managing perfectly well with home deliveries of food, etc. we aren't suddenly rushing out to visit the Coop.
Barnier's arrogance and attitude is going to collapse these talks
12 months ago I had this opinion and was considered extreme here for doing so. It seems to be becoming mainstream now.
....yet it is Johnson who hasn't stood by 4 statements he agreed to in the WA?....
That the Tories have lied consistently on Brexit for a number of years really shouldn't surprise anyone. Some things they wil get away with. Others will be less easy to explain away ... https://twitter.com/BBCCountryfile/status/1215284448129880066
I'm not surprised Barnier is pissed off with us. How can you negotiate with liars and cheats.
Barnier's problem, like many others, is he has not accepted we are leaving and wants to restrict the UK's ability to make it own laws and trade
So you believe that Britain should rat on commitments it signed up to last year?
The UK voted to leave, not to be tied to EU law on tax and state aid and were originally offered a Canada style deal
The EU in your words 'ratted' on it
There are no good outcomes here and as Germany takes over the EU presidency the word out of Germany that Merkel wants a deal and by September is promising
There is no point in extended the deadlock paying billions more into the EU
who offered a Canada style agreement\?
Barnier. On a number of occasions, right up until the day we said yes, that’s what we want too.
This is highly disingenuous. What we are asking for goes well beyond a Canada-style agreement.
Then the EU can push back on whatever goes beyond if they want.
That's not what they want though. Oh well. I see you're ignoring the fact this whole timetabling and not settling this sooner was their preference.
We agreed a treaty which proposes the framework of an association agreement as the structure of the future relationship.
No it doesn't.
The Political Declaration was not legally binding and it doesn't propose that.
It really doesn't. Clauses 118-120 are no more than an agreement to agree and does not commit either party to anything. The EU are of course entitled to say what they want and to refuse to agree anything else but the argument that we are somehow going back on what we committed to is just unstateable.
Quite. It appears the EU believes they and we had signed up to an agreement to agree their rules, both now and in the future, as they saw fit, adjudicated on by their courts.
It appears not to say that at all in reality, and in fact says we’ll agree we should agree something. Barnier’s now throwing a hissy fit because the usual statements about more “clarity” or “ambition” or “reality” we’ve all had to hear him utter repeatedly for two and a bit years ( translation - do what we want), aren’t working anymore, and he fears the wheels are coming off.
He can’t use the clock ( funny how that one’s gone into role reversal), and once we are at WTO he’s got precious little ammunition to enforce anything in N Ireland.
To me this has shades of “no taxation without representation”. Why the hell should we sign up to laws written by foreign legislators, judged by foreign courts, where we have no votes in elections?
We shouldn’t. Full stop. It’s a principle. No votes, no laws.
Somethings in life are more valuable than the availability of brie in bloody Waitrose.
I wonder if Britain will power back to economic health the way America is doing, with Rishi Sunak's oh so clever, oh so generous furlough scheme.
If you think 2.5 million getting a job is "powering back" compared to over 20 million having lost it, then yes I expect Sunak's scheme will see us do better. I expect more than 10% of people to be taken off furlough and returned back to work.
The bigger personality always wins... and it's 64-30 to Boris
Have we polling on this from previous leader clashes?
You mean like Clem Attlee versus Churchill at GE1945
Or Wilson versus Heath at GE1970
Or Kinnock versus Major at GE1992
No I mean in modern times, where reality tv is king.
Since 97 the personality has won every time except 2017, I'm checking the polling now to see if it backs up my theory
You might have something here. Perhaps we are more impressed with "big characters" in politics than we used to be - or (imo) ought to be.
But I detect a change in the air. The ultimate in electing somebody based on flamboyant bullshit was Trump in 2016. And given this was America it had an influence stretching far and wide.
So by the same token when he is rejected at the polls in November this too may have ramifications on political life elsewhere. His election in 2016 may prove the high watermark of "colourful" populist politicians winning elections. His defeat in 2020 the sign that the tide has turned.
I really think so. I can feel a new tomorrow coming on.
People said so in 2010. Brown seen as the competent, no frills man for a crisis. I thought so too, made that argument and voted for him.
Still lost though
I've made the argument a few times that a certain relatability has been the defining feature of all successful US presidential candidates perhaps as far back as 1976. Bush Sr. in 1988 is the one I'm least sure of in that respect. That has meant slightly different things on different occasions.
I hope excuses aren't found to continue to make people wear masks on public transport once Covid-19 is no longer around. I can almost hear someone arguing "people should carry on wearing facemasks in order to stop the spread of seasonal flu".
If "no longer around" means "having developed a vaccine" then I would agree with you. Till that point Covid-19 will most definitely still be around.
Ebola is still around but its not a pandemic in this country.
Well quite (and I agree with your post above about firemen not walking away from a spluttering fire).
I think we have ramped up fear of this thing to such a ludicrous degree that some people will advocate staying in lockdown or mask-wearing while-ever covid is present at all!
That is madness. Once it gets down to a manageable level – which might not be too far away – the aim should be a rapid return to normality.
I hope excuses aren't found to continue to make people wear masks on public transport once Covid-19 is no longer around. I can almost hear someone arguing "people should carry on wearing facemasks in order to stop the spread of seasonal flu".
If "no longer around" means "having developed a vaccine" then I would agree with you. Till that point Covid-19 will most definitely still be around.
It may fizzle out on its own.
By just deciding not to infect anyone? It's a virus, it will infect everyone it can. The only reason it is "fizzling out" is because of the extraordinary measures taken.
Viruses do just fizzle out, if they didn't the human race would not exist.
I hope excuses aren't found to continue to make people wear masks on public transport once Covid-19 is no longer around. I can almost hear someone arguing "people should carry on wearing facemasks in order to stop the spread of seasonal flu".
If "no longer around" means "having developed a vaccine" then I would agree with you. Till that point Covid-19 will most definitely still be around.
Ebola is still around but its not a pandemic in this country.
Well quite (and I agree with your post above about firemen not walking away from a spluttering fire).
I think we have ramped up fear of this thing to such a ludicrous degree that some people will advocate staying in lockdown or mask-wearing while-ever covid is present at all!
That is madness. Once it gets down to a manageable level – which might not be too far away – the aim should be a rapid return to normality.
The big question is can it stay at a manageable level if things return to normality. I think distancing at the very least will be required in the medium term.
Barnier's arrogance and attitude is going to collapse these talks
12 months ago I had this opinion and was considered extreme here for doing so. It seems to be becoming mainstream now.
....yet it is Johnson who hasn't stood by 4 statements he agreed to in the WA?....
That the Tories have lied consistently on Brexit for a number of years really shouldn't surprise anyone. Some things they wil get away with. Others will be less easy to explain away ... https://twitter.com/BBCCountryfile/status/1215284448129880066
I'm not surprised Barnier is pissed off with us. How can you negotiate with liars and cheats.
Barnier's problem, like many others, is he has not accepted we are leaving and wants to restrict the UK's ability to make it own laws and trade
So you believe that Britain should rat on commitments it signed up to last year?
The UK voted to leave, not to be tied to EU law on tax and state aid and were originally offered a Canada style deal
The EU in your words 'ratted' on it
There are no good outcomes here and as Germany takes over the EU presidency the word out of Germany that Merkel wants a deal and by September is promising
There is no point in extended the deadlock paying billions more into the EU
who offered a Canada style agreement\?
Barnier. On a number of occasions, right up until the day we said yes, that’s what we want too.
This is highly disingenuous. What we are asking for goes well beyond a Canada-style agreement.
Then the EU can push back on whatever goes beyond if they want.
That's not what they want though. Oh well. I see you're ignoring the fact this whole timetabling and not settling this sooner was their preference.
We agreed a treaty which proposes the framework of an association agreement as the structure of the future relationship.
No it doesn't.
The Political Declaration was not legally binding and it doesn't propose that.
It really doesn't. Clauses 118-120 are no more than an agreement to agree and does not commit either party to anything. The EU are of course entitled to say what they want and to refuse to agree anything else but the argument that we are somehow going back on what we committed to is just unstateable.
Quite. It appears the EU believes they and we had signed up to an agreement to agree their rules, both now and in the future, as they saw fit, adjudicated on by their courts.
It appears not to say that at all in reality, and in fact says we’ll agree we should agree something. Barnier’s now throwing a hissy fit because the usual statements about more “clarity” or “ambition” or “reality” we’ve all had to hear him utter repeatedly for two and a bit years ( translation - do what we want), aren’t working anymore, and he fears the wheels are coming off.
He can’t use the clock ( funny how that one’s gone into role reversal), and once we are at WTO he’s got precious little ammunition to enforce anything in N Ireland.
To me this has shades of “no taxation without representation”. Why the hell should we sign up to laws written by foreign legislators, judged by foreign courts, where we have no votes in elections?
We shouldn’t. Full stop. It’s a principle. No votes, no laws.
Somethings in life are more valuable than the availability of brie in bloody Waitrose.
Or of course the EU could bend a bit.............
100% completely agreed.
For me this has always been a key point of principle.
I hope excuses aren't found to continue to make people wear masks on public transport once Covid-19 is no longer around. I can almost hear someone arguing "people should carry on wearing facemasks in order to stop the spread of seasonal flu".
If "no longer around" means "having developed a vaccine" then I would agree with you. Till that point Covid-19 will most definitely still be around.
It may fizzle out on its own.
By just deciding not to infect anyone? It's a virus, it will infect everyone it can. The only reason it is "fizzling out" is because of the extraordinary measures taken.
Viruses do just fizzle out, if they didn't the human race would not exist.
By running out of hosts, perhaps. Before then it's not going to do anything on its own.
Barnier's arrogance and attitude is going to collapse these talks
12 months ago I had this opinion and was considered extreme here for doing so. It seems to be becoming mainstream now.
....yet it is Johnson who hasn't stood by 4 statements he agreed to in the WA?....
That the Tories have lied consistently on Brexit for a number of years really shouldn't surprise anyone. Some things they wil get away with. Others will be less easy to explain away ... https://twitter.com/BBCCountryfile/status/1215284448129880066
I'm not surprised Barnier is pissed off with us. How can you negotiate with liars and cheats.
Barnier's problem, like many others, is he has not accepted we are leaving and wants to restrict the UK's ability to make it own laws and trade
So you believe that Britain should rat on commitments it signed up to last year?
The UK voted to leave, not to be tied to EU law on tax and state aid and were originally offered a Canada style deal
The EU in your words 'ratted' on it
There are no good outcomes here and as Germany takes over the EU presidency the word out of Germany that Merkel wants a deal and by September is promising
There is no point in extended the deadlock paying billions more into the EU
who offered a Canada style agreement\?
Barnier. On a number of occasions, right up until the day we said yes, that’s what we want too.
It is quite clear now that the EU will not do a Canada style FTA with us, even only for GB despite the concessions the Withdrawal Agreement made on our side for Northern Ireland.
The best we could get is a deal that leaves the customs union and ends free movement but keeps us under most of the single market rules otherwise.
I would have thought it a snub to all those out in the real world who considered his behaviour to be unacceptable.
For a small but significant part of the Brexit right the primary benefit is simply to annoy fellow citizens who they disagree with. You will hear it on here many times - "Its worth it just to wind up the liberal elite etc"
The bigger personality always wins... and it's 64-30 to Boris
Have we polling on this from previous leader clashes?
You mean like Clem Attlee versus Churchill at GE1945
Or Wilson versus Heath at GE1970
Or Kinnock versus Major at GE1992
No I mean in modern times, where reality tv is king.
Since 97 the personality has won every time except 2017, I'm checking the polling now to see if it backs up my theory
You might have something here. Perhaps we are more impressed with "big characters" in politics than we used to be - or (imo) ought to be.
But I detect a change in the air. The ultimate in electing somebody based on flamboyant bullshit was Trump in 2016. And given this was America it had an influence stretching far and wide.
So by the same token when he is rejected at the polls in November this too may have ramifications on political life elsewhere. His election in 2016 may prove the high watermark of "colourful" populist politicians winning elections. His defeat in 2020 the sign that the tide has turned.
I really think so. I can feel a new tomorrow coming on.
People said so in 2010. Brown seen as the competent, no frills man for a crisis. I thought so too, made that argument and voted for him.
Still lost though
I've made the argument a few times that a certain relatability has been the defining feature of all successful US presidential candidates perhaps as far back as 1976. Bush Sr. in 1988 is the one I'm least sure of in that respect. That has meant slightly different things on different occasions.
Bush Snr in 1988 was more charismatic and more of a personality than Dukakis.
You have to go back to 1968 when Nixon beat Humphrey for the time the lesser personality won the presidential election.
Here the least charismatic candidate won in 1945 and 1951 when Attlee beat Churchill, 1970 when Heath beat Wilson and 1992 when Major beat Kinnock as OGH stated earlier
Comments
If you've nearly put out a fire you don't see the fire brigade pack up and go home because its nearly fizzled out.
Get a dictionary and check the meaning of the word could, then come back to me. Furthermore read clauses 118 and 119.
Electric vehicle tax exemption prolonged from ending in 2025 to end 2030
Increase of vehicle tax for CO2 heavy vehicles
A decrease in electricity cost to consumers and business
Support of the car industry (including suppliers) R&D of 2 billion in the next two years
Support of fleet electrification for social NGOs worth €200 million
Support of EV R&D, charging infrastructure and battery manufacturing worth 2.5 billion euros (plan to require every gas station to have charging points)
Program to electrify commercial and public bus and truck fleets worth 1.2 billion until the end of 2021, including a subsidy for electric buses and their charging infrastructure.
Lowering of VAT from 19% to 16% for the second half of 2020
Increase of EV subsidy from €3,000 to €6,000 until the end of 2021
COVID19 has led to a decrease in trade and queues.
If your threat has already happened its no longer a threat.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-52906551
https://twitter.com/cricketwyvern/status/1268880383959019526?s=20
My employer started letting people work from home nearly two weeks prior to the official lockdown.
My last day in the office was the 16th of March and at the time I posted on here that I had decided not to go to the Liverpool v Atletico Madrid match on March 11th.
Yet on the same day, at least two regions — Madrid and Castile-La Mancha — reported 17 deaths from the virus between them. The health ministry insisted it had not been informed of any death that had taken place in the previous 24 hours.
The confusion, in one of the countries worst hit by the pandemic, underlines what experts say is a big challenge as Spain relaxes its lockdown: a misleading impression that the coronavirus threat is past, which could encourage people to behave reckless"
https://www.ft.com/content/77eb7a13-cd26-41dd-9642-616708b43673
Possibly that guess was about right?
False negatives run around 20%, though (often owing to sampling error).
Furthermore it specifically says "the precise legal form of this future relationship will be determined as part of the formal
negotiations."
And if all we have to do until then is wear masks to keep it under control, that would be an excellent outcome.
So when does the prevalence become low enough for a wobbly Track'n'Trace system to take the load of keeping R down? Probably quite soon, probably not yet.
But I detect a change in the air. The ultimate in electing somebody based on flamboyant bullshit was Trump in 2016. And given this was America it had an influence stretching far and wide.
So by the same token when he is rejected at the polls in November this too may have ramifications on political life elsewhere. His election in 2016 may prove the high watermark of "colourful" populist politicians winning elections. His defeat in 2020 the sign that the tide has turned.
I really think so. I can feel a new tomorrow coming on.
The incentives to buy a zero emission vehicle as a company vehicle are pretty staggering. Makes a Tesla S a cheap option!
Boris Johnson might just break the records set by Brown and May from peak to trough.
The key is the infrastructure, and it's not close to being in place - except for the Tesla network.
Probably a much shallower crater and economic devastation than if the furlough scheme etc hadn't been created.
https://twitter.com/LizAnnSonders/status/1268884263853834240
They can agree something we also find agreeable, or we can walk away without a deal.
That's simple and reasonable isn't it?
Interesting that the lack of a furlough scheme is already seeing 'positive' headlines in the States - whereas in the UK, with an objectively much better scheme in place to protect jobs, the headlines as it is withdrawn are going to be entirely negative for the government.
"Life's too short. And they're all the same anyway".
"Yeah. Apart from that Boris. At least he's a laugh and doesn't take himself too seriously".
One wishes to throttle but one must not. One must keep trying to win hearts and minds.
"What we're doing is working and is getting closer and closer to complete success"
--- "Then we must stop it immediately!!"
Unless something uniquely British happens to accelerate the decline, it will take about a month to get to France's current death rate and two to get to where Germany currently is. (Both based on the physics teacher method of putting a ruler on the screen while looking at a log-linear graph. Crude, but quick and cheap).
Still lost though
Rishi Sunak however has a higher favourable and net favourable rating than both
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1268819330512424960?s=19
Last 7 days - 109
Spanish Style - 19
Where was the outrage when police were maiming protesters in France?
Fraser Myers"
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/06/02/do-french-lives-matter/
"The scale of police violence was astonishing and stomach-churning. Between November 2018 and June 2019, according to figures compiled by Médiapart, 860 protesters were injured by the police – 315 suffered head injuries; 24 lost the use of an eye; and five had hands torn off. In December 2018, an elderly woman who had no involvement in the protests was killed when police threw a grenade into her flat."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/jun/05/coronavirus-live-news-south-africa-sees-record-jump-in-cases-as-new-york-protestors-urged-to-get-tested
I this this week will work out to be under 100 on average, after the numbers have stabilised (7 days from now).
Currently -
30/05/2020 106
31/05/2020 87
01/06/2020 75
02/06/2020 82
03/06/2020 92
04/06/2020 74
05/06/2020 19
I would have complete respect for your position, if the Brexiteer case had actually been honest with the population about what a "take back control" Brexit meant. That the inexorable logic of "take back control" means exiting all trade agreements with the EU. Trade agreements require giving up some control, it’s in their nature.
But the Brexiteers were never interested in explaining this to the population because it undermined their case. Instead, the Leave campaign was built around the simple lie that "take back control" didn’t mean dumping the trade agreement with our largest trade partner on the ground & setting fire to it.
The entire post-referendum period has been the inexorable result of this lie unravelling, yet without the lie the Leave campaign would never have won.
Either way the whole thing is summed up with it saying the LPF is to be commensurate and to be negotiated. That means that no set LPF had ever been agreed.
I would have thought it a snub to all those out in the real world who considered his behaviour to be unacceptable.
Im not asking it is because the answer is bleeding obvious. The govt dont know yet, it depends on how the virus spreads in the future.
It appears not to say that at all in reality, and in fact says we’ll agree we should agree something. Barnier’s now throwing a hissy fit because the usual statements about more “clarity” or “ambition” or “reality” we’ve all had to hear him utter repeatedly for two and a bit years ( translation - do what we want), aren’t working anymore, and he fears the wheels are coming off.
He can’t use the clock ( funny how that one’s gone into role reversal), and once we are at WTO he’s got precious little ammunition to enforce anything in N Ireland.
To me this has shades of “no taxation without representation”. Why the hell should we sign up to laws written by foreign legislators, judged by foreign courts, where we have no votes in elections?
We shouldn’t. Full stop. It’s a principle. No votes, no laws.
Somethings in life are more valuable than the availability of brie in bloody
Waitrose.
Or of course the EU could bend a bit.............
Brazil's current figure would be 63k, about to overtake the UK, and heading towards 100k by the end of the month.
I think we have ramped up fear of this thing to such a ludicrous degree that some people will advocate staying in lockdown or mask-wearing while-ever covid is present at all!
That is madness. Once it gets down to a manageable level – which might not be too far away – the aim should be a rapid return to normality.
Could it be a combination of social distancing, shielding, working from home and maybe the nice weather?
For me this has always been a key point of principle.
The best we could get is a deal that leaves the customs union and ends free movement but keeps us under most of the single market rules otherwise.
I can see it happening.
You have to go back to 1968 when Nixon beat Humphrey for the time the lesser personality won the presidential election.
Here the least charismatic candidate won in 1945 and 1951 when Attlee beat Churchill, 1970 when Heath beat Wilson and 1992 when Major beat Kinnock as OGH stated earlier