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  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    justin124 said:

    RobD said:

    justin124 said:

    Thursday clapping over as nobody comes out and no clapping heard from anywhere

    First time as each week most everybody has been out

    I went out clapping tonight for the first time but have to report that no one joined me despite my having resorted to banging a pan. It is what I expected and shows that most people act like sheep on such matters - by following the crowd or wishing to be seen to participate.
    How is it being a sheep if the whole thing was planned? There is such a thing as organisation, you know?
    But if people start clapping when so many others are doing so and then all happen to stop at the sayso of an individual, it rather suggests lack of spontaneity. In reality, there were probably a fair number who wished to carry on clapping but who have stopped simply to be seen to conform with the behaviour of neighbours etc.
    Personally I never favoured the clapping at all - I did it tonight just to make a point and may do so again next week.
    Surely by doing it at 8pm on a Thursday you are conforming to the nominated clapping time?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    edited June 2020
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    One for the grammar police:
    “No Parking Enforcement In Operation”
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8387535/So-park-Council-misses-vital-stop-no-parking-sign.html

    Or they could have written "No Parking" in big font, and "Enforcement In Operation" in smaller font?
    Strictly speaking, it should be a colon.

    ‘No Parking: Enforcement in Operation.’
    The actual sign has very little ambiguity. Good luck to the jobsworth in charge of defending it. Is it even a legal sign, they’re supposed to be to the DoT standard?

    Probably, because it was a temporary sign and different rules apply.

    But it does look, on that photo, as though the sign is saying no parking enforcement is in operation due to Covid 19.
    Surely this is a temporary no parking sign: clear, unambiguous and to the DoT standard?


  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,878

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    One for the grammar police:
    “No Parking Enforcement In Operation”
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8387535/So-park-Council-misses-vital-stop-no-parking-sign.html

    Or they could have written "No Parking" in big font, and "Enforcement In Operation" in smaller font?
    Strictly speaking, it should be a colon.

    ‘No Parking: Enforcement in Operation.’
    I once dated an English teacher, she dumped for improper use of a colon.
    I think you're missing a pronoun in that sentence!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222

    Mattis. Mild republican voters turned off by Trump. Vets. Who the hell all else comes home to Biden with him on the ticket?

    Bonkers?

    Yes, bonkers.
    The one thing which would really tarnish his credibility would be accepting a place on Trump’s ticket.

    He made himself look like a fool the first time round after joining the administration. I think he smart enough not to make the same mistake twice.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    edited June 2020

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    One for the grammar police:
    “No Parking Enforcement In Operation”
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8387535/So-park-Council-misses-vital-stop-no-parking-sign.html

    Or they could have written "No Parking" in big font, and "Enforcement In Operation" in smaller font?
    Strictly speaking, it should be a colon.

    ‘No Parking: Enforcement in Operation.’
    I once dated an English teacher, she dumped for improper use of a colon.
    Is that why you dumped her ?
    (And wasn’t that an improper use of a comma ?)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,217
    Fishing said:

    rkrkrk said:

    rcs1000 said:
    Powerful stuff. It just seems so obvious that the US police are so badly, awfully trained. They don't even manage to keep themselves safe because they fly into situations without knowing what's going on. And they're a liability to the public.
    The police are heavily armed and aggressive because a small minority of the public are likewise. For every situation that gets out of control there are dozens which are resolved without any violence, except maybe a door kicked in. But until the Second Amendment is reinterpreted and the drug trade brought under control, we'll have many more situations like the current one.
    Everyone has guns in Switzerland, and it doesn't seem to cause too many problems.

    (Agree re the drug trade.)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    The Lancet paper that halted global trials of hydroxychloroquine for Covid-19 because of fears of increased deaths has been retracted.

    The lead author, Prof Mandeep Mehra, from the Brigham and Women’s hospital in Boston, decided to ask the Lancet for the retraction because he could no longer vouch for the accuracy of the data.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119

    RobD said:

    @TheScreamingEagles I think the technical term is "oops".

    The Lancet are edited by a bellend that gave oxygen to Andrew Wakefield and his bullshit and also defended Roy Meadows.

    That publication has blood on their hands for their rubbishness.
    He seems to gone quiet with his criticism of the government....
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,878
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    One for the grammar police:
    “No Parking Enforcement In Operation”
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8387535/So-park-Council-misses-vital-stop-no-parking-sign.html

    Or they could have written "No Parking" in big font, and "Enforcement In Operation" in smaller font?
    Strictly speaking, it should be a colon.

    ‘No Parking: Enforcement in Operation.’
    I once dated an English teacher, she dumped for improper use of a colon.
    Is that why you dumped her ?
    (And wasn’t that an improper use of a comma ?)
    And he missed out a pronoun ("me").
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    One for the grammar police:
    “No Parking Enforcement In Operation”
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8387535/So-park-Council-misses-vital-stop-no-parking-sign.html

    Or they could have written "No Parking" in big font, and "Enforcement In Operation" in smaller font?
    Strictly speaking, it should be a colon.

    ‘No Parking: Enforcement in Operation.’
    I once dated an English teacher, she dumped for improper use of a colon.
    I think you're missing a pronoun in that sentence!
    Fake news.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    One for the grammar police:
    “No Parking Enforcement In Operation”
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8387535/So-park-Council-misses-vital-stop-no-parking-sign.html

    Or they could have written "No Parking" in big font, and "Enforcement In Operation" in smaller font?
    Strictly speaking, it should be a colon.

    ‘No Parking: Enforcement in Operation.’
    I once dated an English teacher, she dumped for improper use of a colon.
    Is that why you dumped her ?
    (And wasn’t that an improper use of a comma ?)
    I never make a grammatical mistake, that is unpossible.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675

    RobD said:

    @TheScreamingEagles I think the technical term is "oops".

    The Lancet are edited by a bellend that gave oxygen to Andrew Wakefield and his bullshit and also defended Roy Meadows.

    That publication has blood on their hands for their rubbishness.
    He seems to gone quiet with his criticism of the government....
    Yup.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited June 2020
    "US protestors should highly consider getting virus test"

    Might need to mimic the Wuhan approach of testing everybody in certain cities
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898
    ydoethur said:

    Strictly speaking, it should be a colon.

    ‘No Parking: Enforcement in Operation.’

    What did Harold MacmIllan actually say:

    "You've never had it? So, good!"
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    One for the grammar police:
    “No Parking Enforcement In Operation”
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8387535/So-park-Council-misses-vital-stop-no-parking-sign.html

    Or they could have written "No Parking" in big font, and "Enforcement In Operation" in smaller font?
    Strictly speaking, it should be a colon.

    ‘No Parking: Enforcement in Operation.’
    I once dated an English teacher, she dumped for improper use of a colon.
    Is that why you dumped her ?
    (And wasn’t that an improper use of a comma ?)
    I never make a grammatical mistake, that is unpossible.
    But you do make grammatical mistakes that are possible?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    One for the grammar police:
    “No Parking Enforcement In Operation”
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8387535/So-park-Council-misses-vital-stop-no-parking-sign.html

    Or they could have written "No Parking" in big font, and "Enforcement In Operation" in smaller font?
    Strictly speaking, it should be a colon.

    ‘No Parking: Enforcement in Operation.’
    I once dated an English teacher, she dumped for improper use of a colon.
    Is that why you dumped her ?
    (And wasn’t that an improper use of a comma ?)
    And he missed out a pronoun ("me").
    We don’t know that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    One for the grammar police:
    “No Parking Enforcement In Operation”
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8387535/So-park-Council-misses-vital-stop-no-parking-sign.html

    Or they could have written "No Parking" in big font, and "Enforcement In Operation" in smaller font?
    Strictly speaking, it should be a colon.

    ‘No Parking: Enforcement in Operation.’
    I once dated an English teacher, she dumped for improper use of a colon.
    Is that why you dumped her ?
    (And wasn’t that an improper use of a comma ?)
    I never make a grammatical mistake, that is unpossible.
    Indeed - but you seem determined to explore every one that is possible.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    Thursday clapping over as nobody comes out and no clapping heard from anywhere

    First time as each week most everybody has been out

    It was announced that it would end last week I believe
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675
    TimT said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    One for the grammar police:
    “No Parking Enforcement In Operation”
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8387535/So-park-Council-misses-vital-stop-no-parking-sign.html

    Or they could have written "No Parking" in big font, and "Enforcement In Operation" in smaller font?
    Strictly speaking, it should be a colon.

    ‘No Parking: Enforcement in Operation.’
    I once dated an English teacher, she dumped for improper use of a colon.
    Is that why you dumped her ?
    (And wasn’t that an improper use of a comma ?)
    I never make a grammatical mistake, that is unpossible.
    But you do make grammatical mistakes that are possible?
    All the time.

    My biggest faux pas is missing out a (crucial) word from sentences.

    Words that usually change the entire meaning of the sentence.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222

    TimT said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    One for the grammar police:
    “No Parking Enforcement In Operation”
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8387535/So-park-Council-misses-vital-stop-no-parking-sign.html

    Or they could have written "No Parking" in big font, and "Enforcement In Operation" in smaller font?
    Strictly speaking, it should be a colon.

    ‘No Parking: Enforcement in Operation.’
    I once dated an English teacher, she dumped for improper use of a colon.
    Is that why you dumped her ?
    (And wasn’t that an improper use of a comma ?)
    I never make a grammatical mistake, that is unpossible.
    But you do make grammatical mistakes that are possible?
    All the time.

    My biggest faux pas is missing out a (crucial) word from sentences.

    Words that usually change the entire meaning of the sentence.
    That’s lawyers for you. :smile:
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,317

    nico67 said:

    So the UK is set to sell out farmers .

    Even under the tariff plan chicken and beef imported from the USA will still be cheaper than that produced in the UK.

    Amazing how quickly the UK folded . Time to order the gimp suit !

    So we're going to get cheaper food is what you're saying?

    Good. That's what the Kiwis did - abolish tariffs, abolish subsidies, told their farmers to make do without any of that. And they're still exporters.

    The food will be cheaper because it will not meet current animal care standards. UK farmers will clearly have to have the standards they work to lowered as well if they are to compete. My guess is that this will not be popular even if it does lower prices a little. We shall see. Luckily - like the people inflicting this on us - I will still be able to buy the good stuff for my family.

    Or UK farmers will maintain current standards and consumers can make the choice to buy Red Tractor approved products. Just like we already can do.

    I buy Free Range eggs and Red Tractor food even though cheaper caged eggs and cheaper lower standard food is available. People can make a free choice in a free society.
    You won’t be able to make that choice because the US will insist that food cannot be labelled so as to allow consumers to know where their meat, for instance, comes from.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Don't be old, don't be male, don't be black, don't be fat, don't have type A blood...

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8388505/DNA-make-people-Type-blood-vulnerable-coronavirus.html
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222

    Scott_xP said:

    Also, announce it, but doesn't come into force for 10 days.

    Just long enough for panic buying and hoarding to guarantee price gouging and some people unable to comply.

    It's almost genius
    You do know it can be any face covering not just a mask

    But don't let your prejudice get in your way
    Well the government has really prepared the populace extremely well for this policy...

    Fewer than four in 10 cover face on UK public transport – Guardian survey
    Survey of almost 800 travellers in three cities shows in some areas rate is just 10%
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/04/fewer-than-four-in-10-people-in-uk-wear-a-face-covering-guardian-survey
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,052
    rcs1000 said:

    Fishing said:

    rkrkrk said:

    rcs1000 said:
    Powerful stuff. It just seems so obvious that the US police are so badly, awfully trained. They don't even manage to keep themselves safe because they fly into situations without knowing what's going on. And they're a liability to the public.
    The police are heavily armed and aggressive because a small minority of the public are likewise. For every situation that gets out of control there are dozens which are resolved without any violence, except maybe a door kicked in. But until the Second Amendment is reinterpreted and the drug trade brought under control, we'll have many more situations like the current one.
    Everyone has guns in Switzerland, and it doesn't seem to cause too many problems.

    (Agree re the drug trade.)
    That's propaganda from the US gun lobby.

    Actually Switzerland has eight times our level of gun deaths by population. And its gun ownership rate is only a third of the US's.

    Switzerland may not be as spectacularly murderous as the US, but it has a definite gun problem.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    FF43 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Since his election as leader I have revised my opinion of sks upwards, and now back down again. This is being "forensic" in the sense that it feels as if he thinks these letters will be devastatingly effective when they form p.78 of documents bundle XVIIa in a High Court trial five years hence. They are his equivalent of calls for judge led inquiries into everything.
    The thing Starmer has in his favour is that he acts more like a Prime Minister than the Prime Minister does.
    He acts exactly as he is. Another lawyer

    Hence lots of pointless letter writing

    I like that we are getting these kinds of attacks on Starmer. He's clearly got the Tories rattled. They have had it easy for far too long.

    I am not rattled by Starmer and he has a long way to go to prove his worth

    Lots of letter writing is a lawyers way
    Starmer is setting up booby traps, and he is very astute at it too. Either BoZo does what Keir says, or he doesn't. It means that he leads the agenda, or he closes off an escape route, or is forced to make a blunder, like the JRM one on parliament.

    Like all barristers, Starmer is good at anticipation. Not for a long time has there been a LOTO who manipulates a PM so well. It is like watching a cat with a mouse. The PM is way out of his depth, and knows it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    I presume the editor will be stepping down, no?
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Cyclefree said:

    nico67 said:

    So the UK is set to sell out farmers .

    Even under the tariff plan chicken and beef imported from the USA will still be cheaper than that produced in the UK.

    Amazing how quickly the UK folded . Time to order the gimp suit !

    So we're going to get cheaper food is what you're saying?

    Good. That's what the Kiwis did - abolish tariffs, abolish subsidies, told their farmers to make do without any of that. And they're still exporters.

    The food will be cheaper because it will not meet current animal care standards. UK farmers will clearly have to have the standards they work to lowered as well if they are to compete. My guess is that this will not be popular even if it does lower prices a little. We shall see. Luckily - like the people inflicting this on us - I will still be able to buy the good stuff for my family.

    Or UK farmers will maintain current standards and consumers can make the choice to buy Red Tractor approved products. Just like we already can do.

    I buy Free Range eggs and Red Tractor food even though cheaper caged eggs and cheaper lower standard food is available. People can make a free choice in a free society.
    You won’t be able to make that choice because the US will insist that food cannot be labelled so as to allow consumers to know where their meat, for instance, comes from.
    We had this discussion earlier. Would it just ban compulsory labelling, or would it include a ban on voluntary labelling? If the latter, there would be nothing the US could do to stop others labeling their meat as humane-grown, hormone-free, not processed in chlorine, or from Devon.

    Also, the big US brands - Perdue, Tyson etc... - will presumably still insist on branding their products, and we'll all soon know them and their place of origin.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    Rand Paul, cementing his reputation for exceptional judgment...

    Rand Paul battles Kamala Harris and Cory Booker on anti-lynching bill
    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/04/rand-paul-anti-lynching-bill-301617

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    "US protestors should highly consider getting virus test"

    Might need to mimic the Wuhan approach of testing everybody in certain cities

    Might not be a bad idea for those 4 Minnesota cops to get tested too. 8 minutes on top of a coronavirus carrier gasping for breath...
  • rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    If the government is serious about dropping food standards, it’s even barmier than I thought

    Surely labelling is the key here. If your food is labelled, you can make your own choice.

    The FTA on current US demand will prohibit any requirement for labelling that identifies US origin.
    That's a lie.
    I don't appreciate being called a liar.

    The US Trade Representative repeatedly highlights labeling as a barrier to trade in this document (mentioned 177 times)
    The US is very aggressive in regarding mandatory labelling as a non-tariff barrier. Nowhere else - to be the best of my knowledge - takes such a stance.

    For the record, the bigger issue (though) is not labelling country of origin, but more issues like "contains genetically modified produce".
    So do you think the US might be happy with labelling that said 'produce of the USA' on their chicken or other animal products, but not anything about animal rearing or processing?

    It's a good question. I suspect that they would be OK with it, so long as there wasn't a requirement to make labelling excessively large. (Yes, arguments really do get that detailed.)
    How much imported chicken is sold in supermarkets as "chicken", where consumers at least have a chance to look at the labelling, and how much goes into "processed foods" i.e. chicken nuggets underneath the golden arks?
    IIRC the latter is considerably more than the former.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Have we debunked, discredited and disowned Professor Karl Friston yet?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    If the government is serious about dropping food standards, it’s even barmier than I thought

    Surely labelling is the key here. If your food is labelled, you can make your own choice.

    The FTA on current US demand will prohibit any requirement for labelling that identifies US origin.
    That's a lie.
    I don't appreciate being called a liar.

    The US Trade Representative repeatedly highlights labeling as a barrier to trade in this document (mentioned 177 times)
    The US is very aggressive in regarding mandatory labelling as a non-tariff barrier. Nowhere else - to be the best of my knowledge - takes such a stance.

    For the record, the bigger issue (though) is not labelling country of origin, but more issues like "contains genetically modified produce".
    So do you think the US might be happy with labelling that said 'produce of the USA' on their chicken or other animal products, but not anything about animal rearing or processing?

    It's a good question. I suspect that they would be OK with it, so long as there wasn't a requirement to make labelling excessively large. (Yes, arguments really do get that detailed.)
    How much imported chicken is sold in supermarkets as "chicken", where consumers at least have a chance to look at the labelling, and how much goes into "processed foods" i.e. chicken nuggets underneath the golden arks?
    IIRC the latter is considerably more than the former.
    For all their faults, McDonalds have a policy of buying in the country.

    https://www.mcdonalds.com/gb/en-gb/good-to-know/about-our-food/beef.html
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,563
    Fishing said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Fishing said:

    rkrkrk said:

    rcs1000 said:
    Powerful stuff. It just seems so obvious that the US police are so badly, awfully trained. They don't even manage to keep themselves safe because they fly into situations without knowing what's going on. And they're a liability to the public.
    The police are heavily armed and aggressive because a small minority of the public are likewise. For every situation that gets out of control there are dozens which are resolved without any violence, except maybe a door kicked in. But until the Second Amendment is reinterpreted and the drug trade brought under control, we'll have many more situations like the current one.
    Everyone has guns in Switzerland, and it doesn't seem to cause too many problems.

    (Agree re the drug trade.)
    That's propaganda from the US gun lobby.

    Actually Switzerland has eight times our level of gun deaths by population. And its gun ownership rate is only a third of the US's.

    Switzerland may not be as spectacularly murderous as the US, but it has a definite gun problem.
    Quoting a death rate as a multiple of that of a country which effectively has no guns in general circulation seems to me to be a rather misleading way of arguing.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 710
    On topic a lot of people who work in Parliament were very surprised that the hybrid proceedings were cancelled so abruptly. It took an incredible amount of effort to make it work. People often forget that once MPs are there a whole army of staff have to come in too.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Since his election as leader I have revised my opinion of sks upwards, and now back down again. This is being "forensic" in the sense that it feels as if he thinks these letters will be devastatingly effective when they form p.78 of documents bundle XVIIa in a High Court trial five years hence. They are his equivalent of calls for judge led inquiries into everything.
    The thing Starmer has in his favour is that he acts more like a Prime Minister than the Prime Minister does.
    He acts exactly as he is. Another lawyer

    Hence lots of pointless letter writing

    I like that we are getting these kinds of attacks on Starmer. He's clearly got the Tories rattled. They have had it easy for far too long.

    I am not rattled by Starmer and he has a long way to go to prove his worth

    Lots of letter writing is a lawyers way
    Starmer is setting up booby traps, and he is very astute at it too. Either BoZo does what Keir says, or he doesn't. It means that he leads the agenda, or he closes off an escape route, or is forced to make a blunder, like the JRM one on parliament.

    Like all barristers, Starmer is good at anticipation. Not for a long time has there been a LOTO who manipulates a PM so well. It is like watching a cat with a mouse. The PM is way out of his depth, and knows it.
    Way overstated. Good barristers practise, indifferent ones get hived off to the DPP. He is so bleeding obvious about the heffalump traps he is digging that it's painful to watch. Normal people quite rightly loathe lawyers anyway, and surely everybody sides with the mouse?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,563
    For the Lancet that is almost light speed. How many years did it take them to retract Wakefield's MMR paper?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Foxy said:

    "US protestors should highly consider getting virus test"

    Might need to mimic the Wuhan approach of testing everybody in certain cities

    Might not be a bad idea for those 4 Minnesota cops to get tested too. 8 minutes on top of a coronavirus carrier gasping for breath...
    Given how rife it is in US prisons, if they didn't have it before, probably do now.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Since his election as leader I have revised my opinion of sks upwards, and now back down again. This is being "forensic" in the sense that it feels as if he thinks these letters will be devastatingly effective when they form p.78 of documents bundle XVIIa in a High Court trial five years hence. They are his equivalent of calls for judge led inquiries into everything.
    The thing Starmer has in his favour is that he acts more like a Prime Minister than the Prime Minister does.
    He acts exactly as he is. Another lawyer

    Hence lots of pointless letter writing

    I like that we are getting these kinds of attacks on Starmer. He's clearly got the Tories rattled. They have had it easy for far too long.

    I am not rattled by Starmer and he has a long way to go to prove his worth

    Lots of letter writing is a lawyers way
    Starmer is setting up booby traps, and he is very astute at it too. Either BoZo does what Keir says, or he doesn't. It means that he leads the agenda, or he closes off an escape route, or is forced to make a blunder, like the JRM one on parliament.

    Like all barristers, Starmer is good at anticipation. Not for a long time has there been a LOTO who manipulates a PM so well. It is like watching a cat with a mouse. The PM is way out of his depth, and knows it.
    Maybe but as has been said do not underestimate Boris ability to win over normal voters

    Boris has lost me, but I think many on here see Starmer as a messiah and he is far from that, though he is a huge relief from the toxic days of Corbyn

  • SurreySurrey Posts: 190
    As well as whether MPs vote by walking or clicking, another question that pollsters might usefully ask is this:

    "Now that the trend for deaths with coronavirus has been falling in Britain for six weeks, do you think the NHS should immediately restore all of the services it closed down indefinitely? [Yes|No]"

    Whoever here wrote of "national religion" was right. It might be posited that for many citizens ritualised clapping is not conducive to critical thinking.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited June 2020
    Lets not forget, Starmer dodgy del-boy trotter dossier fell apart like a CPS case on celebrity child sex offenders. His i wrote to you and you only called didn't work.

    The real problem is Boris is crap at PMQs, especially post COVID, where reading questions off a screen and giving a coherent answer seems incredibly taxing.
  • matthiasfromhamburgmatthiasfromhamburg Posts: 957
    edited June 2020
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    If the government is serious about dropping food standards, it’s even barmier than I thought

    Surely labelling is the key here. If your food is labelled, you can make your own choice.

    The FTA on current US demand will prohibit any requirement for labelling that identifies US origin.
    That's a lie.
    I don't appreciate being called a liar.

    The US Trade Representative repeatedly highlights labeling as a barrier to trade in this document (mentioned 177 times)
    The US is very aggressive in regarding mandatory labelling as a non-tariff barrier. Nowhere else - to be the best of my knowledge - takes such a stance.

    For the record, the bigger issue (though) is not labelling country of origin, but more issues like "contains genetically modified produce".
    So do you think the US might be happy with labelling that said 'produce of the USA' on their chicken or other animal products, but not anything about animal rearing or processing?

    It's a good question. I suspect that they would be OK with it, so long as there wasn't a requirement to make labelling excessively large. (Yes, arguments really do get that detailed.)
    How much imported chicken is sold in supermarkets as "chicken", where consumers at least have a chance to look at the labelling, and how much goes into "processed foods" i.e. chicken nuggets underneath the golden arks?
    IIRC the latter is considerably more than the former.
    For all their faults, McDonalds have a policy of buying in the country.

    https://www.mcdonalds.com/gb/en-gb/good-to-know/about-our-food/beef.html
    For beef that is correct, 100% British/Irish. For chicken, not so much. Anyway, McD nuggets were just an example. Food processing is a huge industry. All considerations of labelling practices and food standards need to take the different realities in this industry into account.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675

    For the Lancet that is almost light speed. How many years did it take them to retract Wakefield's MMR paper?
    Six years for a partial reaction and ten years for a full retraction.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675
    Scott_xP said:
    You know people think Biden has lost his faculties, there's a body of evidence to say the same about Trump.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,563
    edited June 2020
    Cyclefree said:

    nico67 said:

    So the UK is set to sell out farmers .

    Even under the tariff plan chicken and beef imported from the USA will still be cheaper than that produced in the UK.

    Amazing how quickly the UK folded . Time to order the gimp suit !

    So we're going to get cheaper food is what you're saying?

    Good. That's what the Kiwis did - abolish tariffs, abolish subsidies, told their farmers to make do without any of that. And they're still exporters.

    The food will be cheaper because it will not meet current animal care standards. UK farmers will clearly have to have the standards they work to lowered as well if they are to compete. My guess is that this will not be popular even if it does lower prices a little. We shall see. Luckily - like the people inflicting this on us - I will still be able to buy the good stuff for my family.

    Or UK farmers will maintain current standards and consumers can make the choice to buy Red Tractor approved products. Just like we already can do.

    I buy Free Range eggs and Red Tractor food even though cheaper caged eggs and cheaper lower standard food is available. People can make a free choice in a free society.
    You won’t be able to make that choice because the US will insist that food cannot be labelled so as to allow consumers to know where their meat, for instance, comes from.
    I am finding this argument very amusing because clearly no one has actually gone and looked at US law.

    Under the "Farm Security and Rural Investment Act of 2002" almost all fresh produce - including chicken - must carry a Mandatory Country of Origin label. This has been reaffirmed by several amendments to the acts - the most recent in 2016.

    The really funny bit is that it was Canada who took the US to the WTO to claim that the mCOOL laws were counter to free trade and should be outlawed. The Canadians won as far as Beef and Pork are concerned but the list of foodstuffs that have to carry the mCOOL under US Federal law currently includes fresh fruits, raw vegetables, fish, shellfish, muscle cuts and ground lamb, chicken, goat, peanuts, pecans, ginseng, and macadamia nuts.

    So no, the US will not be insisting that there cannot be Country of Origin labels. In fact their own laws make it mandatory.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Scott_xP said:

    twitter.com/BBCJonSopel/status/1268643482786291713

    Trying to read that short exchange was tiring, imagine having to deal with those ramblings 10hrs a day, every day...
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    edited June 2020
    This in Bethesda MD (home of the NIH and Walter Reed National Military Medical Center (Navy, that was). It is impressive how organized these high school kids are - and how universal face mask-wearing is. Let's hope this activism is turned into voters.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9hFEFEEDuE&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR3QGlzmy-zFN0cYMoNNuath4HbTQSq3wxvz4lhwcDhl1UvpNM8I0eNemys
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited June 2020

    Scott_xP said:
    You know people think Biden has lost his faculties, there's a body of evidence to say the same about Trump.
    Bidens solution to excessive deaths, Shoot 'em in the knees, was practically Trumpian.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    Scott_xP said:
    Looks pretty tame for a Trump quote, which is not saying a lot.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    If the government is serious about dropping food standards, it’s even barmier than I thought

    Surely labelling is the key here. If your food is labelled, you can make your own choice.

    The FTA on current US demand will prohibit any requirement for labelling that identifies US origin.
    That's a lie.
    I don't appreciate being called a liar.

    The US Trade Representative repeatedly highlights labeling as a barrier to trade in this document (mentioned 177 times)
    The US is very aggressive in regarding mandatory labelling as a non-tariff barrier. Nowhere else - to be the best of my knowledge - takes such a stance.

    For the record, the bigger issue (though) is not labelling country of origin, but more issues like "contains genetically modified produce".
    So do you think the US might be happy with labelling that said 'produce of the USA' on their chicken or other animal products, but not anything about animal rearing or processing?

    It's a good question. I suspect that they would be OK with it, so long as there wasn't a requirement to make labelling excessively large. (Yes, arguments really do get that detailed.)
    How much imported chicken is sold in supermarkets as "chicken", where consumers at least have a chance to look at the labelling, and how much goes into "processed foods" i.e. chicken nuggets underneath the golden arks?
    IIRC the latter is considerably more than the former.
    For all their faults, McDonalds have a policy of buying in the country.

    https://www.mcdonalds.com/gb/en-gb/good-to-know/about-our-food/beef.html
    For beef that is correct, 100% British/Irish. For chicken, not so much. Anyway, McD nuggets were just an example. Food processing is a huge industry. All considerations of labelling practices and food standards need to take the different realities in this industry into account.
    Nope, chicken and pork is British.

    I agree though on cheaper chicken shops (when not laundering drug money...)
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    If the government is serious about dropping food standards, it’s even barmier than I thought

    Surely labelling is the key here. If your food is labelled, you can make your own choice.

    The FTA on current US demand will prohibit any requirement for labelling that identifies US origin.
    That's a lie.
    I don't appreciate being called a liar.

    The US Trade Representative repeatedly highlights labeling as a barrier to trade in this document (mentioned 177 times)
    The US is very aggressive in regarding mandatory labelling as a non-tariff barrier. Nowhere else - to be the best of my knowledge - takes such a stance.

    For the record, the bigger issue (though) is not labelling country of origin, but more issues like "contains genetically modified produce".
    So do you think the US might be happy with labelling that said 'produce of the USA' on their chicken or other animal products, but not anything about animal rearing or processing?

    It's a good question. I suspect that they would be OK with it, so long as there wasn't a requirement to make labelling excessively large. (Yes, arguments really do get that detailed.)
    How much imported chicken is sold in supermarkets as "chicken", where consumers at least have a chance to look at the labelling, and how much goes into "processed foods" i.e. chicken nuggets underneath the golden arks?
    IIRC the latter is considerably more than the former.
    Its probably already the case that most British produce is sold directly in markets and Supermarkets and "processed" foods are probably mostly imports.

    A lot of processed chicken sold in this country comes from Thailand etc already.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599

    Scott_xP said:
    You know people think Biden has lost his faculties, there's a body of evidence to say the same about Trump.
    Bidens solution to excessive deaths, Shoot 'em in the knees, was practically Trumpian.
    How on Earth have we got to the point where the USA has a choice of two manifestly unsuitable candidates for the most important job in the country?

    Again.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    This is an interesting take on the 'woke' vs 'liberal' culture wars we've touched on from time to time:

    https://twitter.com/bariweiss/status/1268628680797978625
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:
    You know people think Biden has lost his faculties, there's a body of evidence to say the same about Trump.
    Bidens solution to excessive deaths, Shoot 'em in the knees, was practically Trumpian.
    How on Earth have we got to the point where the USA has a choice of two manifestly unsuitable candidates for the most important job in the country?

    Again.
    The Chinese leadership can't believe their luck.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Scott_xP said:
    You know people think Biden has lost his faculties, there's a body of evidence to say the same about Trump.
    Biden is beginning to grow on me a little. PoTUS is not nessecarily supposed to be coherent. Several recent ones rambled like the best. What they do need to be able to do is to do the folksy schmaltz with a straight face. Even his age is a reminder of a kinder, gentler age, reminiscent of picket fences, lemonade stalls and moose lodges.

    I think he might just pull it off...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited June 2020

    This is an interesting take on the 'woke' vs 'liberal' culture wars we've touched on from time to time:

    https://twitter.com/bariweiss/status/1268628680797978625

    This...and it is f##king bananas...also see the tweet i posted last night calling out high end stores for boarding up their windows. And folk outside of cities are of course thought NYT liberals were a bit too left, the new lot, well. It is massive polarization.

    https://twitter.com/bariweiss/status/1268628683952185346?s=19
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    This is an interesting take on the 'woke' vs 'liberal' culture wars we've touched on from time to time:

    https://twitter.com/bariweiss/status/1268628680797978625

    Counterpoint -

    https://twitter.com/leahmcelrath/status/1268640754139836417
  • alednamalednam Posts: 186
    On Parliament. The PM lent his support to shielded MOs being able to vote remotely. He did not support returning to the hybrid Parliament, which (a) the Speaker certainly supports, and (b) the YouGov survey may have been taken to be about.
    For the time being, the vast majority of MPs should be able to work from home -- as has been show to be possible and workable.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675

    NEW THREAD

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    Not quite the recommendation one might hope for.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Since his election as leader I have revised my opinion of sks upwards, and now back down again. This is being "forensic" in the sense that it feels as if he thinks these letters will be devastatingly effective when they form p.78 of documents bundle XVIIa in a High Court trial five years hence. They are his equivalent of calls for judge led inquiries into everything.
    The thing Starmer has in his favour is that he acts more like a Prime Minister than the Prime Minister does.
    He acts exactly as he is. Another lawyer

    Hence lots of pointless letter writing

    I like that we are getting these kinds of attacks on Starmer. He's clearly got the Tories rattled. They have had it easy for far too long.

    I am not rattled by Starmer and he has a long way to go to prove his worth

    Lots of letter writing is a lawyers way
    Starmer is setting up booby traps, and he is very astute at it too. Either BoZo does what Keir says, or he doesn't. It means that he leads the agenda, or he closes off an escape route, or is forced to make a blunder, like the JRM one on parliament.

    Like all barristers, Starmer is good at anticipation. Not for a long time has there been a LOTO who manipulates a PM so well. It is like watching a cat with a mouse. The PM is way out of his depth, and knows it.
    Maybe but as has been said do not underestimate Boris ability to win over normal voters

    Boris has lost me, but I think many on here see Starmer as a messiah and he is far from that, though he is a huge relief from the toxic days of Corbyn

    The fact that he has lost you as a Tory loyalist must make it highly likely that many other less Tory-inclined voters will have seen the scales fall from their eyes.I suspect that many of the firsttime Tory voters from last December already feel pretty disillusioned with Johnson - and the factors which attracted them to him - Brexit and Corbyn - have ceased to be relevant.
    The poll leads we were seeing two months ago were always artificial and were never going to last. The vote shares we are now being presented with are much more realistic with some return to normal politics having been accelerated by recent perceptions of Government mismanagement. On the basis of earlier Parliaments,however, there must be a strong possibility - particularly given the economic storms which lie ahead - that the polls are continuing to flatter the Tories relative to their likely performance in 2024. When we look back to other big election victories from 2001 - 1997 - 1987 - 1966 - and 1959, the ruling party was doing a fair bit better six months into those Parliaments than it was able to sustain at the subsequent General Election several years later.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482

    This is an interesting take on the 'woke' vs 'liberal' culture wars we've touched on from time to time:

    https://twitter.com/bariweiss/status/1268628680797978625

    This...and it is f##king bananas...also see the tweet i posted last night calling out high end stores for boarding up their windows. And folk outside of cities are of course thought NYT liberals were a bit too left, the new lot, well. It is massive polarization.

    https://twitter.com/bariweiss/status/1268628683952185346?s=19
    Sadly, I put it down to poor nutrition, generational poor nutrition. These people are simply stupider and weaker than the preceding generation.
  • SurreySurrey Posts: 190
    edited June 2020
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:
    You know people think Biden has lost his faculties, there's a body of evidence to say the same about Trump.
    Bidens solution to excessive deaths, Shoot 'em in the knees, was practically Trumpian.
    How on Earth have we got to the point where the USA has a choice of two manifestly unsuitable candidates for the most important job in the country?
    The last two times there was rioting on at least the current scale (in fact with much higher numbers of casualties), third party candidates bagged 14% and 19% of the voteshare in the subsequent presidential elections (1968 and 1992).

    Current betting market prices, five months out, imply a probability of 93.1% Biden or Trump, and 94.4% Biden, Trump, or Clinton (sic)! What would Nassim Taleb suggest?

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    It has begun.

    First comment on my FB page (yes I'm that old) from a friend who has just been made redundant after 16 years having been furloughed.

    Entertainment, marquees.
This discussion has been closed.