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  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Scott_xP said:
    The 2m rule indoors is boll*x anyway. Anyone in the same room is highly likely to have caught it.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Deaths are too high ... so let's have thousands of people go on a mass protest to really turbocharge the spread :open_mouth:

    I look forward to every single one of them getting the Cummings witch-hunt treatment ... but I suspect the same people who considered that the crime of the century won't give a damn about their actions.
    So Ave ‘It says they’re all spongers but you imply that the protesters today are senior government advisers with a responsibility for setting the rules that public opinion considers to have been broken. Interesting takes from the right today.
    You told me that plenty of 'normal folk' in your acquaintence were in the throes of being dismissed for lockdown violations - it was part of your reasoning that Cummings should lose his job. I take it that you would mete out the same for the infinitely more dangerous lockdown violation we saw today?

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:

    According to track and trace, should the whole cabinet not self isolate now?

    I think a fair number have had it already
    You still have to self isolate. The rules are clear on that one.
    Only if you've been within 2m, right?
    If you are told to by NHS test and trace. You dont know who it is (although they may be able to guess its Sharma, it could be someone else as well), so wont know how close you were to them.
    But in this case they do, so...
    Not at all, Sharma caught it from someone, call them Mr X. You might have been 3m from Sharma but 1m from Mr X.
    But so could anyone.

    So is the whole country meant to self isolate because we might have been within 1m of an unknown Mr X ?
    You are meant to self isolate if you are told to by NHS test and trace. It is that simple.

    Even though the government say we must do it, it is not a legal requirement, and those running the govt probably wont adhere to it themselves so do whatever you want.
    Sounds unworkable to me.
    Its what happens when we elect a bunch of incompetents who think they can govern by opinion poll.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Ave_it said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Deaths are too high ... so let's have thousands of people go on a mass protest to really turbocharge the spread :open_mouth:

    I look forward to every single one of them getting the Cummings witch-hunt treatment ... but I suspect the same people who considered that the crime of the century won't give a damn about their actions.
    So Ave ‘It says they’re all spongers but you imply that the protesters today are senior government advisers with a responsibility for setting the rules that public opinion considers to have been broken. Interesting takes from the right today.
    An interesting interpretation of that post Doug....
    Almost as fascinating as your evidence free assertion that those on the protest are all benefits claimants.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    Scott_xP said:
    From the Daily Mirror who lost brexit and the 2019 GE

    Bitter
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Every time I think of getting involved in a discussion on PB I look at the comments and not a single one is about the article.

    This forum is not fit for purpose.

    Yes, but where do you stand on pineapple on pizza?
    I have to let you all into a little secret, in the past few days something has started to bug me even more than pineapple on pizza.

    Why do we pronounce the 'Kansas' in Arkansas differently to Kansas?
    The one that bugs me is when people pronounce trans in transport with a long ah, like "trance-port", but I'm yet to see anyone drive a "trance-it" van. Nor have I met any trance-sexuals, for that matter. Though perhaps I'm not visiting the right clubs.
    The English language is being altered almost by poor education and poor speech. Few speak anything close to received pronunciation anymore.
    Eg people say battries now instead of batteries.. and you was there wasnt you ?.and so on and so forth...
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited June 2020
    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Deaths are too high ... so let's have thousands of people go on a mass protest to really turbocharge the spread :open_mouth:

    I look forward to every single one of them getting the Cummings witch-hunt treatment ... but I suspect the same people who considered that the crime of the century won't give a damn about their actions.
    So Ave ‘It says they’re all spongers but you imply that the protesters today are senior government advisers with a responsibility for setting the rules that public opinion considers to have been broken. Interesting takes from the right today.
    Will mass protests with zero regard for social distancing increase the infection rate, and therefore the death rate?

    Of course they will - but suddenly you don't seem to care any more. How very strange!
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:

    According to track and trace, should the whole cabinet not self isolate now?

    I think a fair number have had it already
    You still have to self isolate. The rules are clear on that one.
    Only if you've been within 2m, right?
    If you are told to by NHS test and trace. You dont know who it is (although they may be able to guess its Sharma, it could be someone else as well), so wont know how close you were to them.
    But in this case they do, so...
    Not at all, Sharma caught it from someone, call them Mr X. You might have been 3m from Sharma but 1m from Mr X.
    But so could anyone.

    So is the whole country meant to self isolate because we might have been within 1m of an unknown Mr X ?
    You are meant to self isolate if you are told to by NHS test and trace. It is that simple.

    Even though the government say we must do it, it is not a legal requirement, and those running the govt probably wont adhere to it themselves so do whatever you want.
    Sounds unworkable to me.
    Of course. However it shows how non joined up Govt policy is that self isolating after contact with a proven case is not a legal requirement, but self isolating (in fact quarantine) after coming into contact with a foreign country is, backed up by a £1000 fine!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:

    According to track and trace, should the whole cabinet not self isolate now?

    I think a fair number have had it already
    You still have to self isolate. The rules are clear on that one.
    Only if you've been within 2m, right?
    If you are told to by NHS test and trace. You dont know who it is (although they may be able to guess its Sharma, it could be someone else as well), so wont know how close you were to them.
    But in this case they do, so...
    Not at all, Sharma caught it from someone, call them Mr X. You might have been 3m from Sharma but 1m from Mr X.
    But so could anyone.

    So is the whole country meant to self isolate because we might have been within 1m of an unknown Mr X ?
    You are meant to self isolate if you are told to by NHS test and trace. It is that simple.

    Even though the government say we must do it, it is not a legal requirement, and those running the govt probably wont adhere to it themselves so do whatever you want.
    You're making a giant leap in assuming they would be told to do so by NHS Test and Trace.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Every time I think of getting involved in a discussion on PB I look at the comments and not a single one is about the article.

    This forum is not fit for purpose.

    Yes, but where do you stand on pineapple on pizza?
    I have to let you all into a little secret, in the past few days something has started to bug me even more than pineapple on pizza.

    Why do we pronounce the 'Kansas' in Arkansas differently to Kansas?
    The one that bugs me is when people pronounce trans in transport with a long ah, like "trance-port", but I'm yet to see anyone drive a "trance-it" van. Nor have I met any trance-sexuals, for that matter. Though perhaps I'm not visiting the right clubs.
    The English language is being altered almost by poor education and poor speech. Few speak anything close to received pronunciation anymore.
    Eg people say battries now instead of batteries.. and you was there wasnt you ?.and so on and so forth...
    Languages evolve, always have done, always will.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    This is the 21st century. 2m doesn't mean 2 miles :grin:
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    Where does it say miles? 2 m is 2 metres for a good Europhile.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    DougSeal said:

    Ave_it said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Deaths are too high ... so let's have thousands of people go on a mass protest to really turbocharge the spread :open_mouth:

    I look forward to every single one of them getting the Cummings witch-hunt treatment ... but I suspect the same people who considered that the crime of the century won't give a damn about their actions.
    So Ave ‘It says they’re all spongers but you imply that the protesters today are senior government advisers with a responsibility for setting the rules that public opinion considers to have been broken. Interesting takes from the right today.
    An interesting interpretation of that post Doug....
    Almost as fascinating as your evidence free assertion that those on the protest are all benefits claimants.
    All about the UC! We have created a welfare monster in this country.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    kyf_100 said:

    Every time I think of getting involved in a discussion on PB I look at the comments and not a single one is about the article.

    This forum is not fit for purpose.

    Yes, but where do you stand on pineapple on pizza?
    I have to let you all into a little secret, in the past few days something has started to bug me even more than pineapple on pizza.

    Why do we pronounce the 'Kansas' in Arkansas differently to Kansas?
    Arkansas is the plural of a tribal name that was converted into French. The French don’t pronounce plural “s”s

    Kansas is the Anglicised spelling of another tribal - the English do pronounce their “s”s
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:

    According to track and trace, should the whole cabinet not self isolate now?

    I think a fair number have had it already
    You still have to self isolate. The rules are clear on that one.
    Only if you've been within 2m, right?
    If you are told to by NHS test and trace. You dont know who it is (although they may be able to guess its Sharma, it could be someone else as well), so wont know how close you were to them.
    But in this case they do, so...
    Not at all, Sharma caught it from someone, call them Mr X. You might have been 3m from Sharma but 1m from Mr X.
    But so could anyone.

    So is the whole country meant to self isolate because we might have been within 1m of an unknown Mr X ?
    You are meant to self isolate if you are told to by NHS test and trace. It is that simple.

    Even though the government say we must do it, it is not a legal requirement, and those running the govt probably wont adhere to it themselves so do whatever you want.
    You're making a giant leap in assuming they would be told to do so by NHS Test and Trace.
    What does the word "if" mean?
  • Gary_BurtonGary_Burton Posts: 737
    justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    Boris Johnson is fighting on many fronts – but it’s the Scotland Question that could finish him
    - Why the biggest challenge to Johnson’s administration is the Scottish parliament election

    “Although No 10’s official position is that the Prime Minister would simply refuse to grant the Scottish government the right to hold another vote, most believe that position is contingent on public opinion north of the border.

    “We can reject a referendum as long as holding another one remains a priority only for the SNP’s conference floor,” one minister said to me recently. “Once it becomes an issue of fairness for the average Scottish voter, we’re in trouble.”

    The Union between Great Britain and Northern Ireland doesn’t concern most MPs, but the Union between England and Scotland certainly does“

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2020/06/boris-johnson-fighting-many-fronts-it-s-scotland-question-could-finish-him

    I know they insist they would not grant another under any circumstances, but I just don't think they can sustain that. I'd fear it being lost, but if they want one notwithstanding past events it cannot be put off long.
    They'll keep insisting it until the day after the next Scottish Parliament election. Not granting one would be Scottish Tory policy at that election so there won't be any prevaricating on the matter.

    If the SNP win a majority though then that'd be reason to change potentially. Whether they will then or not is another question, but it won't change before then.
    Turnout at the Holyrood elections will be important. An SNP win on a turnout of 45% - 50% - or even 55% would probably not be viewed by Westminster as having sufficient moral force to override the result of a Referendum which saw a clear result on a turnout of nearly 85%.
    Yes, Holyrood turnout is unlikely to go above 60% IMO.

    I think people considerably overstate the chances of another referendum anyway as long as the Tories are in power at Westminster (at least in the 2021-24 period) as there is no upside for the Tories either way (unlike Labour arguably). Either there's a yes vote which is a disaster for the Tories or there's a no vote after which, the constitutional schism which shored up their 25% vote in Scotland goes away.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Every time I think of getting involved in a discussion on PB I look at the comments and not a single one is about the article.

    This forum is not fit for purpose.

    Yes, but where do you stand on pineapple on pizza?
    I have to let you all into a little secret, in the past few days something has started to bug me even more than pineapple on pizza.

    Why do we pronounce the 'Kansas' in Arkansas differently to Kansas?
    The one that bugs me is when people pronounce trans in transport with a long ah, like "trance-port", but I'm yet to see anyone drive a "trance-it" van. Nor have I met any trance-sexuals, for that matter. Though perhaps I'm not visiting the right clubs.
    The English language is being altered almost by poor education and poor speech. Few speak anything close to received pronunciation anymore.
    Eg people say battries now instead of batteries.. and you was there wasnt you ?.and so on and so forth...
    Almost daily...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102

    This is the 21st century. 2m doesn't mean 2 miles :grin:
    I was only winding Scott up
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Scott_xP said:
    Why would a number of MPs not have socially distanced from him?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Every time I think of getting involved in a discussion on PB I look at the comments and not a single one is about the article.

    This forum is not fit for purpose.

    Yes, but where do you stand on pineapple on pizza?
    I have to let you all into a little secret, in the past few days something has started to bug me even more than pineapple on pizza.

    Why do we pronounce the 'Kansas' in Arkansas differently to Kansas?
    The one that bugs me is when people pronounce trans in transport with a long ah, like "trance-port", but I'm yet to see anyone drive a "trance-it" van. Nor have I met any trance-sexuals, for that matter. Though perhaps I'm not visiting the right clubs.
    The English language is being altered almost by poor education and poor speech. Few speak anything close to received pronunciation anymore.
    Eg people say battries now instead of batteries.. and you was there wasnt you ?.and so on and so forth...
    Almost daily...
    So what? English has evolved, is evolving, and will continue to evolve.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002

    Why would a number of MPs not have socially distanced from him?

    The cabinet room isn't big enough

    And JRM's conga line got jammed
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Alistair said:

    justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    Boris Johnson is fighting on many fronts – but it’s the Scotland Question that could finish him
    - Why the biggest challenge to Johnson’s administration is the Scottish parliament election

    “Although No 10’s official position is that the Prime Minister would simply refuse to grant the Scottish government the right to hold another vote, most believe that position is contingent on public opinion north of the border.

    “We can reject a referendum as long as holding another one remains a priority only for the SNP’s conference floor,” one minister said to me recently. “Once it becomes an issue of fairness for the average Scottish voter, we’re in trouble.”

    The Union between Great Britain and Northern Ireland doesn’t concern most MPs, but the Union between England and Scotland certainly does“

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2020/06/boris-johnson-fighting-many-fronts-it-s-scotland-question-could-finish-him

    I know they insist they would not grant another under any circumstances, but I just don't think they can sustain that. I'd fear it being lost, but if they want one notwithstanding past events it cannot be put off long.
    They'll keep insisting it until the day after the next Scottish Parliament election. Not granting one would be Scottish Tory policy at that election so there won't be any prevaricating on the matter.

    If the SNP win a majority though then that'd be reason to change potentially. Whether they will then or not is another question, but it won't change before then.
    Turnout at the Holyrood elections will be important. An SNP win on a turnout of 45% - 50% - or even 55% would probably not be viewed by Westminster as having sufficient moral force to override the result of a Referendum which saw a clear result on a turnout of nearly 85%.
    Mate the referendum was on whether we wanted independence in 2014 not whether we wanted to never have a referendum ever again.
    But I do seem to recall someone informing voters in advance of the Referendum that the result would effectively be binding 'for a generation'. Another vote a few years post 2035 would be fine.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    edited June 2020

    Ave_it said:

    I think it will be a Hung Parliament.

    I think it's a bit early to make a prediction! 😊
    Not predicting, just pontificating
    Would you care to pontificate on the Hyde Park 'protest'? I'm a bit hazy, but I seem to remember your position on one man and his family driving somewhere during lockdown being 'robust'. I'd love to know your opinions on several hundred gathering at close quarters for a bit of horseplay and chucking stuff at the rozzers.
    If they're breaking the rules then the law should intervene as appropriate, obviously attacking the Police is unacceptable.

    I will support the right to protest in general and I wonder if you are going to use this to smear all protestors.
    Er, what? Of course people have a right to protest in general, they also have a right to drive to Durham in general. We weren't discussing what happens in general, we were discussing what happens during a pandemic. I presume you would agree that joining a mass protest carries considerably more danger than driving anywhere - even if (shock) the driver stops for a piss somewhere, so I assume you feel all the protestors should be dismissed from their jobs?
    Ah, so it is one of those arguments.
    One of those arguments when someone points out your flagrant hypocrisy, yes.

    Your suggestion for what we should do if we have a childcare emergency during Corona lockdown? Call 999. Get them to take the sprog.

    Your current suggestion for what to do if something has happened in America and it's pissed you off? Find the nearest baying mob and be part of a super spreader event.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,217

    China’s Huawei Technologies acted to cover up its relationship with a firm that had tried to sell prohibited U.S. computer gear to Iran, after Reuters in 2013 reported deep links between the firm and the telecom-equipment giant’s chief financial officer, newly obtained internal Huawei documents show.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-huawei-iran-probe-exclusive/exclusive-huawei-hid-business-operation-in-iran-after-reuters-reported-links-to-cfo-idUSKBN23A19B

    A similar thing happened with Ubiquiti Technologies, which is a US networking supplier. They had a Dubai based distributor client that bought their kit, and then sold it to the Iranians.

    Ubiquiti didn't ask too many questions of their customer (whether because as a fairly new fast growing firm they were genuinely ignorant, or because they didn't want to know), and they ended up getting into quite a lot of trouble.

    The latest Huawei phones contain lots of chips they are not supposed to contain, because Huawei themselves are not (of course) prohibited from buying chips from (say) Texas Instruments. So they find intermediaries.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Every time I think of getting involved in a discussion on PB I look at the comments and not a single one is about the article.

    This forum is not fit for purpose.

    Yes, but where do you stand on pineapple on pizza?
    I have to let you all into a little secret, in the past few days something has started to bug me even more than pineapple on pizza.

    Why do we pronounce the 'Kansas' in Arkansas differently to Kansas?
    The one that bugs me is when people pronounce trans in transport with a long ah, like "trance-port", but I'm yet to see anyone drive a "trance-it" van. Nor have I met any trance-sexuals, for that matter. Though perhaps I'm not visiting the right clubs.
    The English language is being altered almost by poor education and poor speech. Few speak anything close to received pronunciation anymore.
    Eg people say battries now instead of batteries.. and you was there wasnt you ?.and so on and so forth...
    Not so much, that last one
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    kyf_100 said:

    Every time I think of getting involved in a discussion on PB I look at the comments and not a single one is about the article.

    This forum is not fit for purpose.

    Yes, but where do you stand on pineapple on pizza?
    I have to let you all into a little secret, in the past few days something has started to bug me even more than pineapple on pizza.

    Why do we pronounce the 'Kansas' in Arkansas differently to Kansas?
    Just to confuse things even more, there is an Arkansas City, Kansas, which is pronounced Ah-Kansas.
    While Kansas City is not the capital of Kansas... nor even in the state...
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    DougSeal said:

    Ave_it said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Deaths are too high ... so let's have thousands of people go on a mass protest to really turbocharge the spread :open_mouth:

    I look forward to every single one of them getting the Cummings witch-hunt treatment ... but I suspect the same people who considered that the crime of the century won't give a damn about their actions.
    So Ave ‘It says they’re all spongers but you imply that the protesters today are senior government advisers with a responsibility for setting the rules that public opinion considers to have been broken. Interesting takes from the right today.
    An interesting interpretation of that post Doug....
    Almost as fascinating as your evidence free assertion that those on the protest are all benefits claimants.
    AveIt is an affable troll who drops in from time to time with weird and wonderful predictions - Tories to win by 500, Boris to be made Queen, that sort of thing. Think of him as a harmless pet. :)
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    Scott_xP said:

    Why would a number of MPs not have socially distanced from him?

    The cabinet room isn't big enough

    And JRM's conga line got jammed
    The cabinet have been video meeting

    However, the idea was nonsense, though many did support it, but a needless situation has now arisen and remote voting will have to be reinstated during this crisis

    Boris is rumoured to be looking at a reshuffle in July and JRM must go
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    Obama sounds tired!
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Deaths are too high ... so let's have thousands of people go on a mass protest to really turbocharge the spread :open_mouth:

    I look forward to every single one of them getting the Cummings witch-hunt treatment ... but I suspect the same people who considered that the crime of the century won't give a damn about their actions.
    So Ave ‘It says they’re all spongers but you imply that the protesters today are senior government advisers with a responsibility for setting the rules that public opinion considers to have been broken. Interesting takes from the right today.
    Will mass protests with zero regard for social distancing increase the infection rate, and therefore the death rate?

    Of course they will - but suddenly you don't seem to care any more. How very strange!
    As in repeatedly pointed out to you I didn’t think Cummings should lose his job. I cared about his actions because he formulated the policy that he broke. You didn’t care that a symptomatic carrier of the virus spread it to the north but now you’re rattling your pearls. I also care about the infection rate going up as a result of this protest. And I also cared about the possibility of it going up after VE Day. You cared about today because you have a problem with the reason they are out. If it were a protest in support if Cummings you wouldn’t give a shit about infection.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    Ave_it said:

    I think it will be a Hung Parliament.

    I think it's a bit early to make a prediction! 😊
    Not predicting, just pontificating
    Would you care to pontificate on the Hyde Park 'protest'? I'm a bit hazy, but I seem to remember your position on one man and his family driving somewhere during lockdown being 'robust'. I'd love to know your opinions on several hundred gathering at close quarters for a bit of horseplay and chucking stuff at the rozzers.
    If they're breaking the rules then the law should intervene as appropriate, obviously attacking the Police is unacceptable.

    I will support the right to protest in general and I wonder if you are going to use this to smear all protestors.
    Er, what? Of course people have a right to protest in general, they also have a right to drive to Durham in general. We weren't discussing what happens in general, we were discussing what happens during a pandemic. I presume you would agree that joining a mass protest carries considerably more danger than driving anywhere - even if (shock) the driver stops for a piss somewhere, so I assume you feel all the protestors should be dismissed from their jobs?
    Ah, so it is one of those arguments.
    One of those arguments when someone points out your flagrant hypocrisy, yes.

    Your suggestion for what we should do if we have a childcare emergency during Corona lockdown? Call 999. Get them to take the sprog.

    Your current suggestion for what to do if something has happened in America and it's pissed you off? Find the nearest baying mob and be part of a super spreader event.
    'Flagrant' really undersells that, doesn't it? It's more like 'towering inferno of hypocrisy' or 'thermonuclear explosion of hypocrisy', really :wink:
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Every time I think of getting involved in a discussion on PB I look at the comments and not a single one is about the article.

    This forum is not fit for purpose.

    Yes, but where do you stand on pineapple on pizza?
    I have to let you all into a little secret, in the past few days something has started to bug me even more than pineapple on pizza.

    Why do we pronounce the 'Kansas' in Arkansas differently to Kansas?
    The one that bugs me is when people pronounce trans in transport with a long ah, like "trance-port", but I'm yet to see anyone drive a "trance-it" van. Nor have I met any trance-sexuals, for that matter. Though perhaps I'm not visiting the right clubs.
    The English language is being altered almost by poor education and poor speech. Few speak anything close to received pronunciation anymore.
    Eg people say battries now instead of batteries.. and you was there wasnt you ?.and so on and so forth...
    Almost daily...
    So what? English has evolved, is evolving, and will continue to evolve.
    I'm still flabbergasted to learn that apparently it is acceptable usage to use ferment instead of foment. I've been hanging my english snobbery on that for years.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Scott_xP said:

    According to track and trace, should the whole cabinet not self isolate now?

    Only if they haven't socially distanced. Why wouldn't they have socially distanced?
    Because they don’t understand how an escalator works
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766

    Scott_xP said:
    From the Daily Mirror who lost brexit and the 2019 GE

    Bitter
    True. But they have Starmer's 2024 landslide to end all landslides to look forward to.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,680
    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Every time I think of getting involved in a discussion on PB I look at the comments and not a single one is about the article.

    This forum is not fit for purpose.

    Yes, but where do you stand on pineapple on pizza?
    I have to let you all into a little secret, in the past few days something has started to bug me even more than pineapple on pizza.

    Why do we pronounce the 'Kansas' in Arkansas differently to Kansas?
    The one that bugs me is when people pronounce trans in transport with a long ah, like "trance-port", but I'm yet to see anyone drive a "trance-it" van. Nor have I met any trance-sexuals, for that matter. Though perhaps I'm not visiting the right clubs.
    COD says both the long and short 'a' are correct for 'transport'. Why do you know better?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,878
    IanB2 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Every time I think of getting involved in a discussion on PB I look at the comments and not a single one is about the article.

    This forum is not fit for purpose.

    Yes, but where do you stand on pineapple on pizza?
    I have to let you all into a little secret, in the past few days something has started to bug me even more than pineapple on pizza.

    Why do we pronounce the 'Kansas' in Arkansas differently to Kansas?
    The one that bugs me is when people pronounce trans in transport with a long ah, like "trance-port", but I'm yet to see anyone drive a "trance-it" van. Nor have I met any trance-sexuals, for that matter. Though perhaps I'm not visiting the right clubs.
    The English language is being altered almost by poor education and poor speech. Few speak anything close to received pronunciation anymore.
    Eg people say battries now instead of batteries.. and you was there wasnt you ?.and so on and so forth...
    Not so much, that last one
    Dey is ignorant people!
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Charles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Every time I think of getting involved in a discussion on PB I look at the comments and not a single one is about the article.

    This forum is not fit for purpose.

    Yes, but where do you stand on pineapple on pizza?
    I have to let you all into a little secret, in the past few days something has started to bug me even more than pineapple on pizza.

    Why do we pronounce the 'Kansas' in Arkansas differently to Kansas?
    Just to confuse things even more, there is an Arkansas City, Kansas, which is pronounced Ah-Kansas.
    While Kansas City is not the capital of Kansas... nor even in the state...
    There’s a little bit of it that stretches over the state line -

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_City,_Kansas
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    Pulpstar said:

    What's the current best estimate on active UK cases - 8,000 ?

    Yep.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    Some info on some local hospitals, Bournemouth has 5 Covid cases, Winchester has 4 and Basingstoke 6. My daughter had the antibody test today and will find out the result tomorrow.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Now all those in the media who got very concerned about of Big Dom touched a petrol pump or went to a whizz in the toilets...i presumed they will be absolutely doing their nut about the BLM attacking the plod outside #10 all crammed together.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    justin124 said:

    Alistair said:

    justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    Boris Johnson is fighting on many fronts – but it’s the Scotland Question that could finish him
    - Why the biggest challenge to Johnson’s administration is the Scottish parliament election

    “Although No 10’s official position is that the Prime Minister would simply refuse to grant the Scottish government the right to hold another vote, most believe that position is contingent on public opinion north of the border.

    “We can reject a referendum as long as holding another one remains a priority only for the SNP’s conference floor,” one minister said to me recently. “Once it becomes an issue of fairness for the average Scottish voter, we’re in trouble.”

    The Union between Great Britain and Northern Ireland doesn’t concern most MPs, but the Union between England and Scotland certainly does“

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2020/06/boris-johnson-fighting-many-fronts-it-s-scotland-question-could-finish-him

    I know they insist they would not grant another under any circumstances, but I just don't think they can sustain that. I'd fear it being lost, but if they want one notwithstanding past events it cannot be put off long.
    They'll keep insisting it until the day after the next Scottish Parliament election. Not granting one would be Scottish Tory policy at that election so there won't be any prevaricating on the matter.

    If the SNP win a majority though then that'd be reason to change potentially. Whether they will then or not is another question, but it won't change before then.
    Turnout at the Holyrood elections will be important. An SNP win on a turnout of 45% - 50% - or even 55% would probably not be viewed by Westminster as having sufficient moral force to override the result of a Referendum which saw a clear result on a turnout of nearly 85%.
    Mate the referendum was on whether we wanted independence in 2014 not whether we wanted to never have a referendum ever again.
    But I do seem to recall someone informing voters in advance of the Referendum that the result would effectively be binding 'for a generation'. Another vote a few years post 2035 would be fine.
    When we need your permission we'll ask you. You can hold your breath if you want, but wouldn't recommend.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    Charles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Every time I think of getting involved in a discussion on PB I look at the comments and not a single one is about the article.

    This forum is not fit for purpose.

    Yes, but where do you stand on pineapple on pizza?
    I have to let you all into a little secret, in the past few days something has started to bug me even more than pineapple on pizza.

    Why do we pronounce the 'Kansas' in Arkansas differently to Kansas?
    Just to confuse things even more, there is an Arkansas City, Kansas, which is pronounced Ah-Kansas.
    While Kansas City is not the capital of Kansas... nor even in the state...
    I thought there was a Kansas City in Missouri and a Kansas City in Kansas.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Every time I think of getting involved in a discussion on PB I look at the comments and not a single one is about the article.

    This forum is not fit for purpose.

    Yes, but where do you stand on pineapple on pizza?
    I have to let you all into a little secret, in the past few days something has started to bug me even more than pineapple on pizza.

    Why do we pronounce the 'Kansas' in Arkansas differently to Kansas?
    The one that bugs me is when people pronounce trans in transport with a long ah, like "trance-port", but I'm yet to see anyone drive a "trance-it" van. Nor have I met any trance-sexuals, for that matter. Though perhaps I'm not visiting the right clubs.
    The English language is being altered almost by poor education and poor speech. Few speak anything close to received pronunciation anymore.
    Eg people say battries now instead of batteries.. and you was there wasnt you ?.and so on and so forth...
    Almost daily...
    So what? English has evolved, is evolving, and will continue to evolve.
    So what is the point in teaching children grammar? I blame programmes like EastEnders where language(and pronunciation) is a foreign one to most who make utterances on the
    show.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    kle4 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Every time I think of getting involved in a discussion on PB I look at the comments and not a single one is about the article.

    This forum is not fit for purpose.

    Yes, but where do you stand on pineapple on pizza?
    I have to let you all into a little secret, in the past few days something has started to bug me even more than pineapple on pizza.

    Why do we pronounce the 'Kansas' in Arkansas differently to Kansas?
    The one that bugs me is when people pronounce trans in transport with a long ah, like "trance-port", but I'm yet to see anyone drive a "trance-it" van. Nor have I met any trance-sexuals, for that matter. Though perhaps I'm not visiting the right clubs.
    The English language is being altered almost by poor education and poor speech. Few speak anything close to received pronunciation anymore.
    Eg people say battries now instead of batteries.. and you was there wasnt you ?.and so on and so forth...
    Almost daily...
    So what? English has evolved, is evolving, and will continue to evolve.
    I'm still flabbergasted to learn that apparently it is acceptable usage to use ferment instead of foment. I've been hanging my english snobbery on that for years.
    It must have been a terrible merment when you learnt that!
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Deaths are too high ... so let's have thousands of people go on a mass protest to really turbocharge the spread :open_mouth:

    I look forward to every single one of them getting the Cummings witch-hunt treatment ... but I suspect the same people who considered that the crime of the century won't give a damn about their actions.
    So Ave ‘It says they’re all spongers but you imply that the protesters today are senior government advisers with a responsibility for setting the rules that public opinion considers to have been broken. Interesting takes from the right today.
    Will mass protests with zero regard for social distancing increase the infection rate, and therefore the death rate?

    Of course they will - but suddenly you don't seem to care any more. How very strange!
    As in repeatedly pointed out to you I didn’t think Cummings should lose his job. I cared about his actions because he formulated the policy that he broke. You didn’t care that a symptomatic carrier of the virus spread it to the north but now you’re rattling your pearls. I also care about the infection rate going up as a result of this protest. And I also cared about the possibility of it going up after VE Day. You cared about today because you have a problem with the reason they are out. If it were a protest in support if Cummings you wouldn’t give a shit about infection.
    Not expressing a general view either way, but it is really true that Cummings "formulated the (lockdown) policy"? I thought he was all for herd immunity! He may have had a major role in co-ordinating the 'simple message' communications strategy once lockdown was embarked upon - but that was his job, not necessarily something he was in favour of?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited June 2020
    I thought Obama was going to give a speech, he seems to be rambling making sure he checks every box.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,600

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Every time I think of getting involved in a discussion on PB I look at the comments and not a single one is about the article.

    This forum is not fit for purpose.

    Yes, but where do you stand on pineapple on pizza?
    I have to let you all into a little secret, in the past few days something has started to bug me even more than pineapple on pizza.

    Why do we pronounce the 'Kansas' in Arkansas differently to Kansas?
    The one that bugs me is when people pronounce trans in transport with a long ah, like "trance-port", but I'm yet to see anyone drive a "trance-it" van. Nor have I met any trance-sexuals, for that matter. Though perhaps I'm not visiting the right clubs.
    The English language is being altered almost by poor education and poor speech. Few speak anything close to received pronunciation anymore.
    Eg people say battries now instead of batteries.. and you was there wasnt you ?.and so on and so forth...
    I know, I'm guilty of saying "li-bry" instead of "li-bra-ry".
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Every time I think of getting involved in a discussion on PB I look at the comments and not a single one is about the article.

    This forum is not fit for purpose.

    Yes, but where do you stand on pineapple on pizza?
    I have to let you all into a little secret, in the past few days something has started to bug me even more than pineapple on pizza.

    Why do we pronounce the 'Kansas' in Arkansas differently to Kansas?
    The one that bugs me is when people pronounce trans in transport with a long ah, like "trance-port", but I'm yet to see anyone drive a "trance-it" van. Nor have I met any trance-sexuals, for that matter. Though perhaps I'm not visiting the right clubs.
    The English language is being altered almost by poor education and poor speech. Few speak anything close to received pronunciation anymore.
    Eg people say battries now instead of batteries.. and you was there wasnt you ?.and so on and so forth...
    You certainly give the English language a good 'battring'.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Deaths are too high ... so let's have thousands of people go on a mass protest to really turbocharge the spread :open_mouth:

    I look forward to every single one of them getting the Cummings witch-hunt treatment ... but I suspect the same people who considered that the crime of the century won't give a damn about their actions.
    So Ave ‘It says they’re all spongers but you imply that the protesters today are senior government advisers with a responsibility for setting the rules that public opinion considers to have been broken. Interesting takes from the right today.
    You told me that plenty of 'normal folk' in your acquaintence were in the throes of being dismissed for lockdown violations - it was part of your reasoning that Cummings should lose his job. I take it that you would mete out the same for the infinitely more dangerous lockdown violation we saw today?

    The opposite is true. Firstly, I’m an employment lawyer, the people I know who have been fired are my clients, I’m defending them against being fired. Secondly I repeatedly made clear my desire for Cummings to keep his job. I did not want Cummings fired because (as I repeatedly pointed out) he does more damage to the government remaining in his job. I did at one point say people could be fairly dismissed for bringing their employer into disrepute but that was not a call for Cummings to be fired.

    There is no one size fits all in employment law. People are held to different standards depending on what they do for a living. Bad language on a construction site will not be held to be as serious as a teacher swearing in the classroom for example. Similarly people who make rules must expect harsher consequences when they break them than those that don’t.
    Apologies if I misrepresented your views.

    We also have degrees of punishment according to the severity of the crime. Whether or not Dom stopped for a piss, or petrol, or even a pasty and a cornetto, as PB's resident Miss Marple's were investigating last week, I think we can all agree his actions are tame when compared to joining a crowd of people, with no social distancing, to jostle with the police, and yell the odds, over a sustained period.

    Yet we've seen zero criticism from the most prominent Cummings critics here. Which tells me last week's furore was nothing to do with Cummings actions, or even the impact those actions might have had on the wider public, and just more tired old Brexit bollocks.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    alex_ said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Deaths are too high ... so let's have thousands of people go on a mass protest to really turbocharge the spread :open_mouth:

    I look forward to every single one of them getting the Cummings witch-hunt treatment ... but I suspect the same people who considered that the crime of the century won't give a damn about their actions.
    So Ave ‘It says they’re all spongers but you imply that the protesters today are senior government advisers with a responsibility for setting the rules that public opinion considers to have been broken. Interesting takes from the right today.
    Will mass protests with zero regard for social distancing increase the infection rate, and therefore the death rate?

    Of course they will - but suddenly you don't seem to care any more. How very strange!
    As in repeatedly pointed out to you I didn’t think Cummings should lose his job. I cared about his actions because he formulated the policy that he broke. You didn’t care that a symptomatic carrier of the virus spread it to the north but now you’re rattling your pearls. I also care about the infection rate going up as a result of this protest. And I also cared about the possibility of it going up after VE Day. You cared about today because you have a problem with the reason they are out. If it were a protest in support if Cummings you wouldn’t give a shit about infection.
    Not expressing a general view either way, but it is really true that Cummings "formulated the (lockdown) policy"? I thought he was all for herd immunity! He may have had a major role in co-ordinating the 'simple message' communications strategy once lockdown was embarked upon - but that was his job, not necessarily something he was in favour of?
    I seem to recall there was great horror and outrage that he might have browbeat or mesmerised the SAGE members with his anti-lockdown views, then we were told he was pro lockdown, but who the hell knows anymore.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102

    Scott_xP said:
    From the Daily Mirror who lost brexit and the 2019 GE

    Bitter
    True. But they have Starmer's 2024 landslide to end all landslides to look forward to.
    I think you may either be jesting or are counting chickens

    2024 is wide open and I am convinced Starmer will not be facing Boris
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Every time I think of getting involved in a discussion on PB I look at the comments and not a single one is about the article.

    This forum is not fit for purpose.

    Yes, but where do you stand on pineapple on pizza?
    I have to let you all into a little secret, in the past few days something has started to bug me even more than pineapple on pizza.

    Why do we pronounce the 'Kansas' in Arkansas differently to Kansas?
    The one that bugs me is when people pronounce trans in transport with a long ah, like "trance-port", but I'm yet to see anyone drive a "trance-it" van. Nor have I met any trance-sexuals, for that matter. Though perhaps I'm not visiting the right clubs.
    The English language is being altered almost by poor education and poor speech. Few speak anything close to received pronunciation anymore.
    Eg people say battries now instead of batteries.. and you was there wasnt you ?.and so on and so forth...
    You certainly give the English language a good 'battring'.
    Its my typing errors that let me down. .. and the lack of an edit facility.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    edited June 2020

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Every time I think of getting involved in a discussion on PB I look at the comments and not a single one is about the article.

    This forum is not fit for purpose.

    Yes, but where do you stand on pineapple on pizza?
    I have to let you all into a little secret, in the past few days something has started to bug me even more than pineapple on pizza.

    Why do we pronounce the 'Kansas' in Arkansas differently to Kansas?
    The one that bugs me is when people pronounce trans in transport with a long ah, like "trance-port", but I'm yet to see anyone drive a "trance-it" van. Nor have I met any trance-sexuals, for that matter. Though perhaps I'm not visiting the right clubs.
    The English language is being altered almost by poor education and poor speech. Few speak anything close to received pronunciation anymore.
    Eg people say battries now instead of batteries.. and you was there wasnt you ?.and so on and so forth...
    Almost daily...
    So what? English has evolved, is evolving, and will continue to evolve.
    So what is the point in teaching children grammar? I blame programmes like EastEnders where language(and pronunciation) is a foreign one to most who make utterances on the
    show.
    It's good to have general rules of language, and that spelling, though illogical, is much more consistent than it used to be, but these things are never as rigid as those rules might suggest, particularly when they include arbitrary 'rules' which may not even be that historic, or based on rulesfor languages other than English.

    If understanding is not harmed or is even improved by not following a rule it cannot be that important a rule. So we should be given the tools of the language and then play around with it a bit.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    Alistair said:

    justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    Boris Johnson is fighting on many fronts – but it’s the Scotland Question that could finish him
    - Why the biggest challenge to Johnson’s administration is the Scottish parliament election

    “Although No 10’s official position is that the Prime Minister would simply refuse to grant the Scottish government the right to hold another vote, most believe that position is contingent on public opinion north of the border.

    “We can reject a referendum as long as holding another one remains a priority only for the SNP’s conference floor,” one minister said to me recently. “Once it becomes an issue of fairness for the average Scottish voter, we’re in trouble.”

    The Union between Great Britain and Northern Ireland doesn’t concern most MPs, but the Union between England and Scotland certainly does“

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2020/06/boris-johnson-fighting-many-fronts-it-s-scotland-question-could-finish-him

    I know they insist they would not grant another under any circumstances, but I just don't think they can sustain that. I'd fear it being lost, but if they want one notwithstanding past events it cannot be put off long.
    They'll keep insisting it until the day after the next Scottish Parliament election. Not granting one would be Scottish Tory policy at that election so there won't be any prevaricating on the matter.

    If the SNP win a majority though then that'd be reason to change potentially. Whether they will then or not is another question, but it won't change before then.
    Turnout at the Holyrood elections will be important. An SNP win on a turnout of 45% - 50% - or even 55% would probably not be viewed by Westminster as having sufficient moral force to override the result of a Referendum which saw a clear result on a turnout of nearly 85%.
    Mate the referendum was on whether we wanted independence in 2014 not whether we wanted to never have a referendum ever again.
    But I do seem to recall someone informing voters in advance of the Referendum that the result would effectively be binding 'for a generation'. Another vote a few years post 2035 would be fine.
    When we need your permission we'll ask you. You can hold your breath if you want, but wouldn't recommend.
    Legally you need Westminster's permission.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Scott_xP said:
    From the Daily Mirror who lost brexit and the 2019 GE

    Bitter
    True. But they have Starmer's 2024 landslide to end all landslides to look forward to.
    I think you may either be jesting or are counting chickens

    2024 is wide open and I am convinced Starmer will not be facing Boris
    Boris reaches parts other Conservatives cannot reach.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Deaths are too high ... so let's have thousands of people go on a mass protest to really turbocharge the spread :open_mouth:

    I look forward to every single one of them getting the Cummings witch-hunt treatment ... but I suspect the same people who considered that the crime of the century won't give a damn about their actions.
    So Ave ‘It says they’re all spongers but you imply that the protesters today are senior government advisers with a responsibility for setting the rules that public opinion considers to have been broken. Interesting takes from the right today.
    Will mass protests with zero regard for social distancing increase the infection rate, and therefore the death rate?

    Of course they will - but suddenly you don't seem to care any more. How very strange!
    As in repeatedly pointed out to you I didn’t think Cummings should lose his job. I cared about his actions because he formulated the policy that he broke. You didn’t care that a symptomatic carrier of the virus spread it to the north but now you’re rattling your pearls. I also care about the infection rate going up as a result of this protest. And I also cared about the possibility of it going up after VE Day. You cared about today because you have a problem with the reason they are out. If it were a protest in support if Cummings you wouldn’t give a shit about infection.
    That's some impressive whataboutery you've got going on there, not to mention a vivid imagination. Of course I wouldn't sanction a mass protest in favour of Cummings, because it would be a fucking dangerous and stupid thing to do - just like the mass protests today, which were a thousand times more dangerous as super-spreader events than Cummings could ever be.

    But I bet we'll have to wait a loooooong time before the lefties conduct one of their famous witch-hunts against them, won't we?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482

    kle4 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Every time I think of getting involved in a discussion on PB I look at the comments and not a single one is about the article.

    This forum is not fit for purpose.

    Yes, but where do you stand on pineapple on pizza?
    I have to let you all into a little secret, in the past few days something has started to bug me even more than pineapple on pizza.

    Why do we pronounce the 'Kansas' in Arkansas differently to Kansas?
    The one that bugs me is when people pronounce trans in transport with a long ah, like "trance-port", but I'm yet to see anyone drive a "trance-it" van. Nor have I met any trance-sexuals, for that matter. Though perhaps I'm not visiting the right clubs.
    The English language is being altered almost by poor education and poor speech. Few speak anything close to received pronunciation anymore.
    Eg people say battries now instead of batteries.. and you was there wasnt you ?.and so on and so forth...
    Almost daily...
    So what? English has evolved, is evolving, and will continue to evolve.
    I'm still flabbergasted to learn that apparently it is acceptable usage to use ferment instead of foment. I've been hanging my english snobbery on that for years.
    It must have been a terrible merment when you learnt that!
    As far as I'm concerned, it isn't acceptable. The Oxford English Dictionary can dumb down if it wants, doesn't mean I have to.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Every time I think of getting involved in a discussion on PB I look at the comments and not a single one is about the article.

    This forum is not fit for purpose.

    Yes, but where do you stand on pineapple on pizza?
    I have to let you all into a little secret, in the past few days something has started to bug me even more than pineapple on pizza.

    Why do we pronounce the 'Kansas' in Arkansas differently to Kansas?
    The one that bugs me is when people pronounce trans in transport with a long ah, like "trance-port", but I'm yet to see anyone drive a "trance-it" van. Nor have I met any trance-sexuals, for that matter. Though perhaps I'm not visiting the right clubs.
    The English language is being altered almost by poor education and poor speech. Few speak anything close to received pronunciation anymore.
    Eg people say battries now instead of batteries.. and you was there wasnt you ?.and so on and so forth...
    Almost daily...
    So what? English has evolved, is evolving, and will continue to evolve.
    So what is the point in teaching children grammar? I blame programmes like EastEnders where language(and pronunciation) is a foreign one to most who make utterances on the
    show.
    More pertinently, what is the point of grammar?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,434

    Pulpstar said:

    What's the current best estimate on active UK cases - 8,000 ?

    Not active cases, new cases each day is ~8k (probably less now). But active cases is north of 100k.
    That seems implausibly high for the situation today to me.

    How long is a case active for on average? I thought it was 7 to 14 days and new cases was 8k a couple of weeks ago (and been lower every day since then). I don't see how you can reach 100k active from there?
    7 to 14 days is when you are potentially infectious, but it can take much longer for you personally to get (seriously) ill.
    Still seems to be implausible to be north of 100k active.
    The ONS national survey had the overall infection level essentially static above 100k at any one time. I'd assumed that this was due to chance, given the uncertainties, and that there was still a decline in the prevalence of the virus, but they seemed quite confident in it when it said the same the third week in a row.

    I suppose one possible explanation that would reconcile that with the ongoing decline in the number of deaths would be if HMG had managed to get a grip on the situation in care homes, reducing the infection rate among the elderly, but that the young had seen an increase in their infection rate due to concluding they're at low risk - so accidentally following the risk segmentation approach espoused by @BobASomeone on here. Then a static rate of infection would lead to a decline in deaths, as the population infected had a lower mortality.

    But I suspect that it's because the ONS infection survey numbers aren't very accurate.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    Now all those in the media who got very concerned about of Big Dom touched a petrol pump or went to a whizz in the toilets...i presumed they will be absolutely doing their nut about the BLM attacking the plod outside #10 all crammed together.

    The rank hypocrites won't touch it with a 2-metre-long bargepole...
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    Scott_xP said:
    From the Daily Mirror who lost brexit and the 2019 GE

    Bitter
    True. But they have Starmer's 2024 landslide to end all landslides to look forward to.
    I think you may either be jesting or are counting chickens

    2024 is wide open and I am convinced Starmer will not be facing Boris
    "When danger reared its ugly head,
    He bravely turned his tail and fled,
    Yes Brave Sir Boris turned about,
    And gallantly he chickened out,
    Bravely taking to his feet,
    He beat a very brave retreat,
    Bravest of the brave Sir Boris ..."
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766

    Scott_xP said:
    From the Daily Mirror who lost brexit and the 2019 GE

    Bitter
    True. But they have Starmer's 2024 landslide to end all landslides to look forward to.
    I think you may either be jesting or are counting chickens

    2024 is wide open and I am convinced Starmer will not be facing Boris
    Boris reaches parts other Conservatives cannot reach.
    Unintentionally rude I suspect :smile:
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    kle4 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Every time I think of getting involved in a discussion on PB I look at the comments and not a single one is about the article.

    This forum is not fit for purpose.

    Yes, but where do you stand on pineapple on pizza?
    I have to let you all into a little secret, in the past few days something has started to bug me even more than pineapple on pizza.

    Why do we pronounce the 'Kansas' in Arkansas differently to Kansas?
    The one that bugs me is when people pronounce trans in transport with a long ah, like "trance-port", but I'm yet to see anyone drive a "trance-it" van. Nor have I met any trance-sexuals, for that matter. Though perhaps I'm not visiting the right clubs.
    The English language is being altered almost by poor education and poor speech. Few speak anything close to received pronunciation anymore.
    Eg people say battries now instead of batteries.. and you was there wasnt you ?.and so on and so forth...
    Almost daily...
    So what? English has evolved, is evolving, and will continue to evolve.
    So what is the point in teaching children grammar? I blame programmes like EastEnders where language(and pronunciation) is a foreign one to most who make utterances on the
    show.
    It's good to have general rules of language, and that spelling, though illogical, is much more consistent than it used to be, but these things are never as rigid as those rules might suggest, particularly when they include arbitrary 'rules' which may not even be that historic, or based on rulesfor languages other than English.

    If understanding is not harmed or is even improved by not following a rule it cannot be that important a rule. So we should be given the tools of the language and then play around with it a bit.
    Its not a case of being improved by not following rules. It is not improved its damaged... in reality it is just laziness as it is with me not spending enough time double checking my posts for typos.... where is the edit facility?

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766

    Scott_xP said:
    From the Daily Mirror who lost brexit and the 2019 GE

    Bitter
    True. But they have Starmer's 2024 landslide to end all landslides to look forward to.
    I think you may either be jesting or are counting chickens

    2024 is wide open and I am convinced Starmer will not be facing Boris
    The economic shitstorm that is coming, nicely compounded in the UK by No Deal, will pitch the Tories out for a generation.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,878

    kyf_100 said:

    Every time I think of getting involved in a discussion on PB I look at the comments and not a single one is about the article.

    This forum is not fit for purpose.

    Yes, but where do you stand on pineapple on pizza?
    I have to let you all into a little secret, in the past few days something has started to bug me even more than pineapple on pizza.

    Why do we pronounce the 'Kansas' in Arkansas differently to Kansas?
    Just to confuse things even more, there is an Arkansas City, Kansas, which is pronounced Ah-Kansas.
    And most of Kansas City is in Missouri.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149

    kle4 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Every time I think of getting involved in a discussion on PB I look at the comments and not a single one is about the article.

    This forum is not fit for purpose.

    Yes, but where do you stand on pineapple on pizza?
    I have to let you all into a little secret, in the past few days something has started to bug me even more than pineapple on pizza.

    Why do we pronounce the 'Kansas' in Arkansas differently to Kansas?
    The one that bugs me is when people pronounce trans in transport with a long ah, like "trance-port", but I'm yet to see anyone drive a "trance-it" van. Nor have I met any trance-sexuals, for that matter. Though perhaps I'm not visiting the right clubs.
    The English language is being altered almost by poor education and poor speech. Few speak anything close to received pronunciation anymore.
    Eg people say battries now instead of batteries.. and you was there wasnt you ?.and so on and so forth...
    Almost daily...
    So what? English has evolved, is evolving, and will continue to evolve.
    I'm still flabbergasted to learn that apparently it is acceptable usage to use ferment instead of foment. I've been hanging my english snobbery on that for years.
    It must have been a terrible merment when you learnt that!
    As far as I'm concerned, it isn't acceptable. The Oxford English Dictionary can dumb down if it wants, doesn't mean I have to.
    Well indeed, but given acceptable usage in English essentially comes from whether in general people use it a certain way without need for official approval, it means we cannot claim it is not a proper usage if others want to, sadly.

    Where I draw the line is the game Words with Friends. That will let you play various 'words' and then when you click for a definition it says it doesn't have one. I'll accept bullshit obscure scrabble words that no one has ever actually used, but at least they come with a definition of some sort.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    kle4 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Every time I think of getting involved in a discussion on PB I look at the comments and not a single one is about the article.

    This forum is not fit for purpose.

    Yes, but where do you stand on pineapple on pizza?
    I have to let you all into a little secret, in the past few days something has started to bug me even more than pineapple on pizza.

    Why do we pronounce the 'Kansas' in Arkansas differently to Kansas?
    The one that bugs me is when people pronounce trans in transport with a long ah, like "trance-port", but I'm yet to see anyone drive a "trance-it" van. Nor have I met any trance-sexuals, for that matter. Though perhaps I'm not visiting the right clubs.
    The English language is being altered almost by poor education and poor speech. Few speak anything close to received pronunciation anymore.
    Eg people say battries now instead of batteries.. and you was there wasnt you ?.and so on and so forth...
    Almost daily...
    So what? English has evolved, is evolving, and will continue to evolve.
    I'm still flabbergasted to learn that apparently it is acceptable usage to use ferment instead of foment. I've been hanging my english snobbery on that for years.
    It must have been a terrible merment when you learnt that!
    As far as I'm concerned, it isn't acceptable. The Oxford English Dictionary can dumb down if it wants, doesn't mean I have to.
    You appear to have missed my little jest.

    Regarding dumbing down: you don't have to; indeed, depending on where you start, you may not be able to. :wink:
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Every time I think of getting involved in a discussion on PB I look at the comments and not a single one is about the article.

    This forum is not fit for purpose.

    Yes, but where do you stand on pineapple on pizza?
    I have to let you all into a little secret, in the past few days something has started to bug me even more than pineapple on pizza.

    Why do we pronounce the 'Kansas' in Arkansas differently to Kansas?
    The one that bugs me is when people pronounce trans in transport with a long ah, like "trance-port", but I'm yet to see anyone drive a "trance-it" van. Nor have I met any trance-sexuals, for that matter. Though perhaps I'm not visiting the right clubs.
    The English language is being altered almost by poor education and poor speech. Few speak anything close to received pronunciation anymore.
    Eg people say battries now instead of batteries.. and you was there wasnt you ?.and so on and so forth...
    Almost daily...
    So what? English has evolved, is evolving, and will continue to evolve.
    So what is the point in teaching children grammar? I blame programmes like EastEnders where language(and pronunciation) is a foreign one to most who make utterances on the
    show.
    More pertinently, what is the point of grammar?
    It's the difference between helping your uncle jack off a horse and helping your Uncle Jack off a horse.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    What bad news is being buried tonight?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729

    kle4 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Every time I think of getting involved in a discussion on PB I look at the comments and not a single one is about the article.

    This forum is not fit for purpose.

    Yes, but where do you stand on pineapple on pizza?
    I have to let you all into a little secret, in the past few days something has started to bug me even more than pineapple on pizza.

    Why do we pronounce the 'Kansas' in Arkansas differently to Kansas?
    The one that bugs me is when people pronounce trans in transport with a long ah, like "trance-port", but I'm yet to see anyone drive a "trance-it" van. Nor have I met any trance-sexuals, for that matter. Though perhaps I'm not visiting the right clubs.
    The English language is being altered almost by poor education and poor speech. Few speak anything close to received pronunciation anymore.
    Eg people say battries now instead of batteries.. and you was there wasnt you ?.and so on and so forth...
    Almost daily...
    So what? English has evolved, is evolving, and will continue to evolve.
    So what is the point in teaching children grammar? I blame programmes like EastEnders where language(and pronunciation) is a foreign one to most who make utterances on the
    show.
    It's good to have general rules of language, and that spelling, though illogical, is much more consistent than it used to be, but these things are never as rigid as those rules might suggest, particularly when they include arbitrary 'rules' which may not even be that historic, or based on rulesfor languages other than English.

    If understanding is not harmed or is even improved by not following a rule it cannot be that important a rule. So we should be given the tools of the language and then play around with it a bit.
    Its not a case of being improved by not following rules. It is not improved its damaged... in reality it is just laziness as it is with me not spending enough time double checking my posts for typos.... where is the edit facility?

    Incidentally, if I write a letter longhand, I am particularly careful and often have to start all over again... i think thats because one writes so few letters.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited June 2020
    Well that Obama bit was weird. I presumed he was going to come on and give a carefully crafted speech addressing the nations to call for peaceful protest & dialogue.

    Instead it was like he was around for dinner and talking off the cuff about these protests he had seen on the telly and what we need is academic research, more elected positions, etc.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Deaths are too high ... so let's have thousands of people go on a mass protest to really turbocharge the spread :open_mouth:

    I look forward to every single one of them getting the Cummings witch-hunt treatment ... but I suspect the same people who considered that the crime of the century won't give a damn about their actions.
    So Ave ‘It says they’re all spongers but you imply that the protesters today are senior government advisers with a responsibility for setting the rules that public opinion considers to have been broken. Interesting takes from the right today.
    Will mass protests with zero regard for social distancing increase the infection rate, and therefore the death rate?

    Of course they will - but suddenly you don't seem to care any more. How very strange!
    As in repeatedly pointed out to you I didn’t think Cummings should lose his job. I cared about his actions because he formulated the policy that he broke. You didn’t care that a symptomatic carrier of the virus spread it to the north but now you’re rattling your pearls. I also care about the infection rate going up as a result of this protest. And I also cared about the possibility of it going up after VE Day. You cared about today because you have a problem with the reason they are out. If it were a protest in support if Cummings you wouldn’t give a shit about infection.
    That's some impressive whataboutery you've got going on there, not to mention a vivid imagination. Of course I wouldn't sanction a mass protest in favour of Cummings, because it would be a fucking dangerous and stupid thing to do - just like the mass protests today, which were a thousand times more dangerous as super-spreader events than Cummings could ever be.

    But I bet we'll have to wait a loooooong time before the lefties conduct one of their famous witch-hunts against them, won't we?
    I am sure the right will step in, as they so often do, to conduct their own.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,680

    kle4 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Every time I think of getting involved in a discussion on PB I look at the comments and not a single one is about the article.

    This forum is not fit for purpose.

    Yes, but where do you stand on pineapple on pizza?
    I have to let you all into a little secret, in the past few days something has started to bug me even more than pineapple on pizza.

    Why do we pronounce the 'Kansas' in Arkansas differently to Kansas?
    The one that bugs me is when people pronounce trans in transport with a long ah, like "trance-port", but I'm yet to see anyone drive a "trance-it" van. Nor have I met any trance-sexuals, for that matter. Though perhaps I'm not visiting the right clubs.
    The English language is being altered almost by poor education and poor speech. Few speak anything close to received pronunciation anymore.
    Eg people say battries now instead of batteries.. and you was there wasnt you ?.and so on and so forth...
    Almost daily...
    So what? English has evolved, is evolving, and will continue to evolve.
    I'm still flabbergasted to learn that apparently it is acceptable usage to use ferment instead of foment. I've been hanging my english snobbery on that for years.
    It must have been a terrible merment when you learnt that!
    As far as I'm concerned, it isn't acceptable. The Oxford English Dictionary can dumb down if it wants, doesn't mean I have to.
    'Ferment' has been used as a synonym for 'foment' (stir up, exacerbate) since the 17th Century.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Deaths are too high ... so let's have thousands of people go on a mass protest to really turbocharge the spread :open_mouth:

    I look forward to every single one of them getting the Cummings witch-hunt treatment ... but I suspect the same people who considered that the crime of the century won't give a damn about their actions.
    So Ave ‘It says they’re all spongers but you imply that the protesters today are senior government advisers with a responsibility for setting the rules that public opinion considers to have been broken. Interesting takes from the right today.
    Will mass protests with zero regard for social distancing increase the infection rate, and therefore the death rate?

    Of course they will - but suddenly you don't seem to care any more. How very strange!
    As in repeatedly pointed out to you I didn’t think Cummings should lose his job. I cared about his actions because he formulated the policy that he broke. You didn’t care that a symptomatic carrier of the virus spread it to the north but now you’re rattling your pearls. I also care about the infection rate going up as a result of this protest. And I also cared about the possibility of it going up after VE Day. You cared about today because you have a problem with the reason they are out. If it were a protest in support if Cummings you wouldn’t give a shit about infection.
    That's some impressive whataboutery you've got going on there, not to mention a vivid imagination. Of course I wouldn't sanction a mass protest in favour of Cummings, because it would be a fucking dangerous and stupid thing to do - just like the mass protests today, which were a thousand times more dangerous as super-spreader events than Cummings could ever be.

    But I bet we'll have to wait a loooooong time before the lefties conduct one of their famous witch-hunts against them, won't we?
    You mean there won't be cut out and keep masks of the protestors on the front page of the Daily Star - 'this mask allows you to do whatever the fuck you like, and screw everyone else'

    *paraphrase
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Deaths are too high ... so let's have thousands of people go on a mass protest to really turbocharge the spread :open_mouth:

    I look forward to every single one of them getting the Cummings witch-hunt treatment ... but I suspect the same people who considered that the crime of the century won't give a damn about their actions.
    So Ave ‘It says they’re all spongers but you imply that the protesters today are senior government advisers with a responsibility for setting the rules that public opinion considers to have been broken. Interesting takes from the right today.
    You told me that plenty of 'normal folk' in your acquaintence were in the throes of being dismissed for lockdown violations - it was part of your reasoning that Cummings should lose his job. I take it that you would mete out the same for the infinitely more dangerous lockdown violation we saw today?

    The opposite is true. Firstly, I’m an employment lawyer, the people I know who have been fired are my clients, I’m defending them against being fired. Secondly I repeatedly made clear my desire for Cummings to keep his job. I did not want Cummings fired because (as I repeatedly pointed out) he does more damage to the government remaining in his job. I did at one point say people could be fairly dismissed for bringing their employer into disrepute but that was not a call for Cummings to be fired.

    There is no one size fits all in employment law. People are held to different standards depending on what they do for a living. Bad language on a construction site will not be held to be as serious as a teacher swearing in the classroom for example. Similarly people who make rules must expect harsher consequences when they break them than those that don’t.
    Apologies if I misrepresented your views.

    We also have degrees of punishment according to the severity of the crime. Whether or not Dom stopped for a piss, or petrol, or even a pasty and a cornetto, as PB's resident Miss Marple's were investigating last week, I think we can all agree his actions are tame when compared to joining a crowd of people, with no social distancing, to jostle with the police, and yell the odds, over a sustained period.

    Yet we've seen zero criticism from the most prominent Cummings critics here. Which tells me last week's furore was nothing to do with Cummings actions, or even the impact those actions might have had on the wider public, and just more tired old Brexit bollocks.
    Well I'll give it a go. I support the right to peaceful protest.
    Doing so in the manner we have seen today during a pandemic is the height of irresponsible selfishness.
    As were the actions of Cummings.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,335
    A a note, its the anniversary of the Tiananmen Square massacre coming up. The number killed that day and after went into the thousands.

    I look forward to UK police chiefs releasing a statement about how it was wrong and asking for justice and accountability, the virtue signalling bunch of pricks.

    Meanwhile Trump will probably be looking for a new defence secretary shortly.
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    edited June 2020
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Deaths are too high ... so let's have thousands of people go on a mass protest to really turbocharge the spread :open_mouth:

    I look forward to every single one of them getting the Cummings witch-hunt treatment ... but I suspect the same people who considered that the crime of the century won't give a damn about their actions.
    So Ave ‘It says they’re all spongers but you imply that the protesters today are senior government advisers with a responsibility for setting the rules that public opinion considers to have been broken. Interesting takes from the right today.
    Will mass protests with zero regard for social distancing increase the infection rate, and therefore the death rate?

    Of course they will - but suddenly you don't seem to care any more. How very strange!
    As in repeatedly pointed out to you I didn’t think Cummings should lose his job. I cared about his actions because he formulated the policy that he broke. You didn’t care that a symptomatic carrier of the virus spread it to the north but now you’re rattling your pearls. I also care about the infection rate going up as a result of this protest. And I also cared about the possibility of it going up after VE Day. You cared about today because you have a problem with the reason they are out. If it were a protest in support if Cummings you wouldn’t give a shit about infection.
    That's some impressive whataboutery you've got going on there, not to mention a vivid imagination. Of course I wouldn't sanction a mass protest in favour of Cummings, because it would be a fucking dangerous and stupid thing to do - just like the mass protests today, which were a thousand times more dangerous as super-spreader events than Cummings could ever be.

    But I bet we'll have to wait a loooooong time before the lefties conduct one of their famous witch-hunts against them, won't we?
    I am sure the right will step in, as they so often do, to conduct their own.
    Two wrongs don't make a right.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482

    kle4 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Every time I think of getting involved in a discussion on PB I look at the comments and not a single one is about the article.

    This forum is not fit for purpose.

    Yes, but where do you stand on pineapple on pizza?
    I have to let you all into a little secret, in the past few days something has started to bug me even more than pineapple on pizza.

    Why do we pronounce the 'Kansas' in Arkansas differently to Kansas?
    The one that bugs me is when people pronounce trans in transport with a long ah, like "trance-port", but I'm yet to see anyone drive a "trance-it" van. Nor have I met any trance-sexuals, for that matter. Though perhaps I'm not visiting the right clubs.
    The English language is being altered almost by poor education and poor speech. Few speak anything close to received pronunciation anymore.
    Eg people say battries now instead of batteries.. and you was there wasnt you ?.and so on and so forth...
    Almost daily...
    So what? English has evolved, is evolving, and will continue to evolve.
    I'm still flabbergasted to learn that apparently it is acceptable usage to use ferment instead of foment. I've been hanging my english snobbery on that for years.
    It must have been a terrible merment when you learnt that!
    As far as I'm concerned, it isn't acceptable. The Oxford English Dictionary can dumb down if it wants, doesn't mean I have to.
    You appear to have missed my little jest.

    Regarding dumbing down: you don't have to; indeed, depending on where you start, you may not be able to. :wink:
    :lol: Now spotted it.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Scott_xP said:
    From the Daily Mirror who lost brexit and the 2019 GE

    Bitter
    True. But they have Starmer's 2024 landslide to end all landslides to look forward to.
    I think you may either be jesting or are counting chickens

    2024 is wide open and I am convinced Starmer will not be facing Boris
    Boris reaches parts other Conservatives cannot reach.
    Unintentionally rude I suspect :smile:
    I was alluding to the geographical rather than the anatomical.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Deaths are too high ... so let's have thousands of people go on a mass protest to really turbocharge the spread :open_mouth:

    I look forward to every single one of them getting the Cummings witch-hunt treatment ... but I suspect the same people who considered that the crime of the century won't give a damn about their actions.
    So Ave ‘It says they’re all spongers but you imply that the protesters today are senior government advisers with a responsibility for setting the rules that public opinion considers to have been broken. Interesting takes from the right today.
    Will mass protests with zero regard for social distancing increase the infection rate, and therefore the death rate?

    Of course they will - but suddenly you don't seem to care any more. How very strange!
    As in repeatedly pointed out to you I didn’t think Cummings should lose his job. I cared about his actions because he formulated the policy that he broke. You didn’t care that a symptomatic carrier of the virus spread it to the north but now you’re rattling your pearls. I also care about the infection rate going up as a result of this protest. And I also cared about the possibility of it going up after VE Day. You cared about today because you have a problem with the reason they are out. If it were a protest in support if Cummings you wouldn’t give a shit about infection.
    That's some impressive whataboutery you've got going on there, not to mention a vivid imagination. Of course I wouldn't sanction a mass protest in favour of Cummings, because it would be a fucking dangerous and stupid thing to do - just like the mass protests today, which were a thousand times more dangerous as super-spreader events than Cummings could ever be.

    But I bet we'll have to wait a loooooong time before the lefties conduct one of their famous witch-hunts against them, won't we?
    You mean there won't be cut out and keep masks of the protestors on the front page of the Daily Star - 'this mask allows you to do whatever the fuck you like, and screw everyone else'

    *paraphrase
    Can you imagine? The state of our legal system is such that it would probably be illegal.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    dixiedean said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Deaths are too high ... so let's have thousands of people go on a mass protest to really turbocharge the spread :open_mouth:

    I look forward to every single one of them getting the Cummings witch-hunt treatment ... but I suspect the same people who considered that the crime of the century won't give a damn about their actions.
    So Ave ‘It says they’re all spongers but you imply that the protesters today are senior government advisers with a responsibility for setting the rules that public opinion considers to have been broken. Interesting takes from the right today.
    You told me that plenty of 'normal folk' in your acquaintence were in the throes of being dismissed for lockdown violations - it was part of your reasoning that Cummings should lose his job. I take it that you would mete out the same for the infinitely more dangerous lockdown violation we saw today?

    The opposite is true. Firstly, I’m an employment lawyer, the people I know who have been fired are my clients, I’m defending them against being fired. Secondly I repeatedly made clear my desire for Cummings to keep his job. I did not want Cummings fired because (as I repeatedly pointed out) he does more damage to the government remaining in his job. I did at one point say people could be fairly dismissed for bringing their employer into disrepute but that was not a call for Cummings to be fired.

    There is no one size fits all in employment law. People are held to different standards depending on what they do for a living. Bad language on a construction site will not be held to be as serious as a teacher swearing in the classroom for example. Similarly people who make rules must expect harsher consequences when they break them than those that don’t.
    Apologies if I misrepresented your views.

    We also have degrees of punishment according to the severity of the crime. Whether or not Dom stopped for a piss, or petrol, or even a pasty and a cornetto, as PB's resident Miss Marple's were investigating last week, I think we can all agree his actions are tame when compared to joining a crowd of people, with no social distancing, to jostle with the police, and yell the odds, over a sustained period.

    Yet we've seen zero criticism from the most prominent Cummings critics here. Which tells me last week's furore was nothing to do with Cummings actions, or even the impact those actions might have had on the wider public, and just more tired old Brexit bollocks.
    Well I'll give it a go. I support the right to peaceful protest.
    Doing so in the manner we have seen today during a pandemic is the height of irresponsible selfishness.
    As were the actions of Cummings.
    Cummings was wrong and should have resigned but on the scale of things it was nowhere near as dangerous as today.

    Indeed today was the most serious gathering since the football and Cheltenham
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,240

    Scott_xP said:
    From the Daily Mirror who lost brexit and the 2019 GE

    Bitter
    True. But they have Starmer's 2024 landslide to end all landslides to look forward to.
    I think you may either be jesting or are counting chickens

    2024 is wide open and I am convinced Starmer will not be facing Boris
    Boris reaches parts other Conservatives cannot reach.
    True, but that highlights the strategic mess that the Conservatives' tactical triumph risks.

    Since electing BoJo, they have become something of a one man brand; there's Boris and a bunch of nobodies. If Boris fell under the proverbial No 12 bus tonight, it's hard to see who could replace him in the "reaching other parts" stakes. But without that reaching, even an 80 seat majority looks shaky.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    edited June 2020

    kle4 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Every time I think of getting involved in a discussion on PB I look at the comments and not a single one is about the article.

    This forum is not fit for purpose.

    Yes, but where do you stand on pineapple on pizza?
    I have to let you all into a little secret, in the past few days something has started to bug me even more than pineapple on pizza.

    Why do we pronounce the 'Kansas' in Arkansas differently to Kansas?
    The one that bugs me is when people pronounce trans in transport with a long ah, like "trance-port", but I'm yet to see anyone drive a "trance-it" van. Nor have I met any trance-sexuals, for that matter. Though perhaps I'm not visiting the right clubs.
    The English language is being altered almost by poor education and poor speech. Few speak anything close to received pronunciation anymore.
    Eg people say battries now instead of batteries.. and you was there wasnt you ?.and so on and so forth...
    Almost daily...
    So what? English has evolved, is evolving, and will continue to evolve.
    So what is the point in teaching children grammar? I blame programmes like EastEnders where language(and pronunciation) is a foreign one to most who make utterances on the
    show.
    It's good to have general rules of language, and that spelling, though illogical, is much more consistent than it used to be, but these things are never as rigid as those rules might suggest, particularly when they include arbitrary 'rules' which may not even be that historic, or based on rulesfor languages other than English.

    If understanding is not harmed or is even improved by not following a rule it cannot be that important a rule. So we should be given the tools of the language and then play around with it a bit.
    Its not a case of being improved by not following rules. It is not improved its damaged.

    That's absolute nonsense. It depends on the 'rule' and the context. Not least since many of the so called rules are not rules at all, so talk of things being 'damaged' by not following them is ridiculous. It's the same with rules on word usage. I'm not damaging anything if I say I have fewer apples than yesterday or if I say I have less apples than yesterday. No understanding has been lost, and anyone insisting the language has been damaged in that context is a crazy person. On the other hand if I said I was fewer educated than my brother it clearly would affect understanding compared to if I said I was less educated than my brother.

    It's also incredibly common for advocates of grammar rigidity to either insist upon the following of a rule which has never been rigidly adhered to, or to make grammatical errors whilst insisting others use grammar correctly. And that's fine. But who exactly do you think is setting these rules which, when not followed, are 'damaging' the language? Do you believe all the rules are of equal standing? Is subject-verb-object order as important as not ending a sentence with a preposition?

    Typos are a different matter altogether.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    dixiedean said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Deaths are too high ... so let's have thousands of people go on a mass protest to really turbocharge the spread :open_mouth:

    I look forward to every single one of them getting the Cummings witch-hunt treatment ... but I suspect the same people who considered that the crime of the century won't give a damn about their actions.
    So Ave ‘It says they’re all spongers but you imply that the protesters today are senior government advisers with a responsibility for setting the rules that public opinion considers to have been broken. Interesting takes from the right today.
    You told me that plenty of 'normal folk' in your acquaintence were in the throes of being dismissed for lockdown violations - it was part of your reasoning that Cummings should lose his job. I take it that you would mete out the same for the infinitely more dangerous lockdown violation we saw today?

    The opposite is true. Firstly, I’m an employment lawyer, the people I know who have been fired are my clients, I’m defending them against being fired. Secondly I repeatedly made clear my desire for Cummings to keep his job. I did not want Cummings fired because (as I repeatedly pointed out) he does more damage to the government remaining in his job. I did at one point say people could be fairly dismissed for bringing their employer into disrepute but that was not a call for Cummings to be fired.

    There is no one size fits all in employment law. People are held to different standards depending on what they do for a living. Bad language on a construction site will not be held to be as serious as a teacher swearing in the classroom for example. Similarly people who make rules must expect harsher consequences when they break them than those that don’t.
    Apologies if I misrepresented your views.

    We also have degrees of punishment according to the severity of the crime. Whether or not Dom stopped for a piss, or petrol, or even a pasty and a cornetto, as PB's resident Miss Marple's were investigating last week, I think we can all agree his actions are tame when compared to joining a crowd of people, with no social distancing, to jostle with the police, and yell the odds, over a sustained period.

    Yet we've seen zero criticism from the most prominent Cummings critics here. Which tells me last week's furore was nothing to do with Cummings actions, or even the impact those actions might have had on the wider public, and just more tired old Brexit bollocks.
    Well I'll give it a go. I support the right to peaceful protest.
    Doing so in the manner we have seen today during a pandemic is the height of irresponsible selfishness.
    As were the actions of Cummings.
    I'll take that - good for you.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    edited June 2020

    What bad news is being buried tonight?

    Is Cummings on the road again?
    Wearin' different clothes again...
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Deaths are too high ... so let's have thousands of people go on a mass protest to really turbocharge the spread :open_mouth:

    I look forward to every single one of them getting the Cummings witch-hunt treatment ... but I suspect the same people who considered that the crime of the century won't give a damn about their actions.
    So Ave ‘It says they’re all spongers but you imply that the protesters today are senior government advisers with a responsibility for setting the rules that public opinion considers to have been broken. Interesting takes from the right today.
    Will mass protests with zero regard for social distancing increase the infection rate, and therefore the death rate?

    Of course they will - but suddenly you don't seem to care any more. How very strange!
    As in repeatedly pointed out to you I didn’t think Cummings should lose his job. I cared about his actions because he formulated the policy that he broke. You didn’t care that a symptomatic carrier of the virus spread it to the north but now you’re rattling your pearls. I also care about the infection rate going up as a result of this protest. And I also cared about the possibility of it going up after VE Day. You cared about today because you have a problem with the reason they are out. If it were a protest in support if Cummings you wouldn’t give a shit about infection.
    That's some impressive whataboutery you've got going on there, not to mention a vivid imagination. Of course I wouldn't sanction a mass protest in favour of Cummings, because it would be a fucking dangerous and stupid thing to do - just like the mass protests today, which were a thousand times more dangerous as super-spreader events than Cummings could ever be.

    But I bet we'll have to wait a loooooong time before the lefties conduct one of their famous witch-hunts against them, won't we?
    I am sure the right will step in, as they so often do, to conduct their own.
    Thanks for confirming that the Cummings witch-hunt had nothing to do with concern for public health then. Much appreciated!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,600
    "What connects the most brazen forms of state violence against black people and the struggles of BAME coronavirus patients is systemic racism.

    BY GARY YOUNGE"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2020/06/we-cant-breathe
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102

    Well that Obama bit was weird. I presumed he was going to come on and give a carefully crafted speech addressing the nations to call for peaceful protest & dialogue.

    Instead it was like he was around for dinner and talking off the cuff about these protests he had seen on the telly and what we need is academic research, more elected positions, etc.

    He always was long winded but right now he would make a fine President
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482

    kle4 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Every time I think of getting involved in a discussion on PB I look at the comments and not a single one is about the article.

    This forum is not fit for purpose.

    Yes, but where do you stand on pineapple on pizza?
    I have to let you all into a little secret, in the past few days something has started to bug me even more than pineapple on pizza.

    Why do we pronounce the 'Kansas' in Arkansas differently to Kansas?
    The one that bugs me is when people pronounce trans in transport with a long ah, like "trance-port", but I'm yet to see anyone drive a "trance-it" van. Nor have I met any trance-sexuals, for that matter. Though perhaps I'm not visiting the right clubs.
    The English language is being altered almost by poor education and poor speech. Few speak anything close to received pronunciation anymore.
    Eg people say battries now instead of batteries.. and you was there wasnt you ?.and so on and so forth...
    Almost daily...
    So what? English has evolved, is evolving, and will continue to evolve.
    I'm still flabbergasted to learn that apparently it is acceptable usage to use ferment instead of foment. I've been hanging my english snobbery on that for years.
    It must have been a terrible merment when you learnt that!
    As far as I'm concerned, it isn't acceptable. The Oxford English Dictionary can dumb down if it wants, doesn't mean I have to.
    'Ferment' has been used as a synonym for 'foment' (stir up, exacerbate) since the 17th Century.
    I'm sure it has - why would a common mistake occurring between two similar terms with a different meaning have only begun in the late 20th century?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102

    Scott_xP said:
    From the Daily Mirror who lost brexit and the 2019 GE

    Bitter
    True. But they have Starmer's 2024 landslide to end all landslides to look forward to.
    I think you may either be jesting or are counting chickens

    2024 is wide open and I am convinced Starmer will not be facing Boris
    The economic shitstorm that is coming, nicely compounded in the UK by No Deal, will pitch the Tories out for a generation.

    You may be right but you may not

    It is impossible to predict in this climate
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,878

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Every time I think of getting involved in a discussion on PB I look at the comments and not a single one is about the article.

    This forum is not fit for purpose.

    Yes, but where do you stand on pineapple on pizza?
    I have to let you all into a little secret, in the past few days something has started to bug me even more than pineapple on pizza.

    Why do we pronounce the 'Kansas' in Arkansas differently to Kansas?
    The one that bugs me is when people pronounce trans in transport with a long ah, like "trance-port", but I'm yet to see anyone drive a "trance-it" van. Nor have I met any trance-sexuals, for that matter. Though perhaps I'm not visiting the right clubs.
    The English language is being altered almost by poor education and poor speech. Few speak anything close to received pronunciation anymore.
    Eg people say battries now instead of batteries.. and you was there wasnt you ?.and so on and so forth...
    You certainly give the English language a good 'battring'.
    Its my typing errors that let me down. .. and the lack of an edit facility.
    You can edit within 6 minutes of posting.
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100

    Scott_xP said:
    From the Daily Mirror who lost brexit and the 2019 GE

    Bitter
    True. But they have Starmer's 2024 landslide to end all landslides to look forward to.
    I think you may either be jesting or are counting chickens

    2024 is wide open and I am convinced Starmer will not be facing Boris
    Boris reaches parts other Conservatives cannot reach.
    True, but that highlights the strategic mess that the Conservatives' tactical triumph risks.

    Since electing BoJo, they have become something of a one man brand; there's Boris and a bunch of nobodies. If Boris fell under the proverbial No 12 bus tonight, it's hard to see who could replace him in the "reaching other parts" stakes. But without that reaching, even an 80 seat majority looks shaky.
    Can you please tell me who the Labour "body" is?
This discussion has been closed.