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  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Are they still going to be asking about Cummings next week?
    Next week definitely, next month probably, next year, possible.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Are they still going to be asking about Cummings next week?
    Dominic who?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited May 2020
    BBC again... how many months of we have this and they still get it wrong.

    "Here's a government chart showing how the average number of daily deaths has decreased signficantly but appears to be plateauing."

    No mention that despite this, using date of death...yadda yadda yadda.
  • eadric said:

    DougSeal said:
    But don't we still have to fork out for this fund anyway if the transition period is extended, and all the stuff with Cummings is just a Remainer plot to ensure that happens? (I think I'm following this correctly.)
    It's part of the next EU budget which doesn't include the UK. I assume that if the UK extends then an interim bill for the benefit of Single Market access will be thrashed out - hence the 30 June deadline as these things can't be sorted out between 11pm and midnight on 31 December.
    The UK will not extend the transistion and the 1st July looks near odds on for the end of negotiations and UK move to WTO

    Barnier still does not seem to understand the transition extension has been legislated against by HMG and the WDA requires in EU law for an extension to be agreed on or before 30th June

    We all need to hope that post the 1st July Barnier will realise he has run out of time and will then address the consequencies
    Barnier definitely knows that; if you know it he knows it.

    No one seems to understand; the EU has set out its stall and that is that ex-members don't get the benefits of existing ones and they certainly don't get preferential access without some commitments. Now you and I can argue about the definition of existing benefits and preferential access and LPF arrangements but the EU is a rules based organisation and what they've offered is is what will be given to the UK.

    The UK is an adolescent based organisation that thinks that intermittently weeping or slamming doors will somehow get it what it wants.

    It won't.
    No weeping, no slamming of doors, just not being dictated to on tax rates, state subsidies, and laws ruled by the ECJ

    I voted remain but since have supported brexit. I regret TM deal was not passed but we are now in a position, especially post covid, that we will be free to act to mitigate the economic damage and do it on our own terms

    Interesting todays poll sees a move to leave and once it becomes clear the EU want 24 billion to keep us in a 2 year transition, and that we become responsible for contributions to Brussels to save the eurozone, that poll is likely to increase substantially
    The idea that we’ll be able to fix the damage from COVID all by ourselves is laughable. There’s never been a better time to be part of a larger bloc.
    Not with the EU economic armageddon
    Why? If the EU did collapse over this then the UK would lose its largest single largest export partner (Single Market), that is a market it currently has unfettered access to and on 1 January 2020 will have to pay for access to. The presence of that market is unchanged by the UK's level of access to it.

    A lot of leavers and converts to their cause seem to think that the UK would be shielded from an economic collapse in Europe by leaving the EU. However that isn't remotely true: the UK's fate is closely bound to the continent of Europe whatever its EU membership status.

    The upshot of the Brexit experiment is that the UK retains that connection (reliance in fact; wars have been fought by the British to maintain a favourable position in Europe), while giving up any influence at all on its future path as we will see with the bailout package.

    The UK in its effort to recover from the Covid crist and in general aren't strengthened by Brexit and its influence in Europe will be at its lowest point in centuries.
    Yes yes yes, fascinating.

    Your analysis of the European situation would be more impactful if you hadn't just confirmed that you misunderstand the most basic facts about the EU.

    eg The EU frugals don't want any covid grants, they only want loans. Instead the EU has proposed to do loans AND grants, so the frugals are mightily pissed off.

    https://twitter.com/Jimbo0o0/status/1265551412651573249?s=20

    There, that's your first lesson
    So you still aren't very articulate - its is twenty past five I suppose so its a downward slope from here - there are 27 different voices in the EU, they may all be coming from different positions and with a different shopping list but they will compromise to keep the project going. Thats the thing you don't seem to understand that people can have a larger understanding of the things that affect them.

    Do you actually know any Europeans on a personal or a professional level? If you do maybe ask them whether they would support flouncing out of the EU over supporting the poorer countries and essentially tear up the project and their trading relationships.

    I get the impression your quite tight - in both meanings of the word.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885

    Does this still apply if one of the parties has an appendage that is greater in length than 2 metres?
    Like a barnacle (pro rata).
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    Alistair said:

    The BLM movement is a bit like Extinction Rebellion. There is a genuine issue, but the leaders of these movements are about much more. They don't just want the police to better held accountable for their crimes or for the government to tilt our economy to be more green to tackle climate change, they want total overthrow of the capitalist system.

    Fairly certain they'd be happy with the state not Murdering Black people with impunity.
    I don't think they'd be happy with that. They still exist in the UK, and our police do not murder black people with impunity.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    eadric said:

    Sandpit said:

    DougSeal said:
    But don't we still have to fork out for this fund anyway if the transition period is extended, and all the stuff with Cummings is just a Remainer plot to ensure that happens? (I think I'm following this correctly.)
    Yes, extending the transition period comes complete with our ‘share’ of the €750bn bill attached to it, as well as the usual £350m a week. Why do you think Barnier is so desparate for the extension?
    Well the bill has already been split across all the payers and all the recpients and has been agreed in that form. Barnier has been explaining to the UK what its options are nothing more. Fortunately the UK government and the whisky salesman who is representing it are keen for the country's economy to get to the bottom of the cliff as quickly as possible.
    It certainly has not been agreed in the EU

    https://twitter.com/EUwatchers/status/1264792337546346496?s=20
    The frugal states have been given what they wanted: EUR250BN has been added as loans with the original EUR500BN in grants retained. I anticipate that it will get to 1trn by the end. In any case the countries which need the money will get it and the countries that want a yield will get theirs.
    You seem to ignore eadric explanation altogether
    Because he hasn't explained anything and referred to an old article. The original plan was EUR500BN of grants. The frugals didn't like it and so the new proposal adds EUR250BN of loans. The end deal could be up at a EUR1TRN. The bottom line is that the two biggest members of the EU want this and so it is what is going to happen.
    People tend to underestimate the political will underpinning the EU and the Euro. It's huge. So whatever fate throws at it Gloria Gaynor applies. There is much to be gained from realising this.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:
    But don't we still have to fork out for this fund anyway if the transition period is extended, and all the stuff with Cummings is just a Remainer plot to ensure that happens? (I think I'm following this correctly.)
    It's part of the next EU budget which doesn't include the UK. I assume that if the UK extends then an interim bill for the benefit of Single Market access will be thrashed out - hence the 30 June deadline as these things can't be sorted out between 11pm and midnight on 31 December.
    My prediction -

    A deal with phase1 starting 1 Jan 2021. End of FM. Fee for 1 years continued frictionless access to the SM.

    Target date 31 Dec 2021 to agree phase2. The trade deal.

    An extension without an extension. The hot populist issue - immigration - defused.

    The trade deal ends up as close alignment - soft Brexit - possibly after further delay (depending on pandemic and extent of economic and financial crisis).
    If the EU were to accept that, there are 27 other countries that would think, hang on, UK are getting a better deal than we are.
  • Alistair said:

    The BLM movement is a bit like Extinction Rebellion. There is a genuine issue, but the leaders of these movements are about much more. They don't just want the police to better held accountable for their crimes or for the government to tilt our economy to be more green to tackle climate change, they want total overthrow of the capitalist system.

    Fairly certain they'd be happy with the state not Murdering Black people with impunity.
    I don't think they'd be happy with that. They still exist in the UK, and our police do not murder black people with impunity.
    Absolutely, I know many UK policemen and I simply don't understand what we're seeing of their peers in the US. It is of course the case that in the news we see the worst of any group of people but what has been happening there is still mind-boggling.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,878

    Alistair said:

    The BLM movement is a bit like Extinction Rebellion. There is a genuine issue, but the leaders of these movements are about much more. They don't just want the police to better held accountable for their crimes or for the government to tilt our economy to be more green to tackle climate change, they want total overthrow of the capitalist system.

    Fairly certain they'd be happy with the state not Murdering Black people with impunity.
    I don't think they'd be happy with that. They still exist in the UK, and our police do not murder black people with impunity.
    Mark Duggan and Jean Charles de Menezes might beg to differ - if they were still alive...
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Alistair said:

    The BLM movement is a bit like Extinction Rebellion. There is a genuine issue, but the leaders of these movements are about much more. They don't just want the police to better held accountable for their crimes or for the government to tilt our economy to be more green to tackle climate change, they want total overthrow of the capitalist system.

    Fairly certain they'd be happy with the state not Murdering Black people with impunity.
    I don't think they'd be happy with that. They still exist in the UK, and our police do not murder black people with impunity.
    Tell that to poor Mark Duggan
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    kinabalu said:

    eadric said:

    Sandpit said:

    DougSeal said:
    But don't we still have to fork out for this fund anyway if the transition period is extended, and all the stuff with Cummings is just a Remainer plot to ensure that happens? (I think I'm following this correctly.)
    Yes, extending the transition period comes complete with our ‘share’ of the €750bn bill attached to it, as well as the usual £350m a week. Why do you think Barnier is so desparate for the extension?
    Well the bill has already been split across all the payers and all the recpients and has been agreed in that form. Barnier has been explaining to the UK what its options are nothing more. Fortunately the UK government and the whisky salesman who is representing it are keen for the country's economy to get to the bottom of the cliff as quickly as possible.
    It certainly has not been agreed in the EU

    https://twitter.com/EUwatchers/status/1264792337546346496?s=20
    The frugal states have been given what they wanted: EUR250BN has been added as loans with the original EUR500BN in grants retained. I anticipate that it will get to 1trn by the end. In any case the countries which need the money will get it and the countries that want a yield will get theirs.
    You seem to ignore eadric explanation altogether
    Because he hasn't explained anything and referred to an old article. The original plan was EUR500BN of grants. The frugals didn't like it and so the new proposal adds EUR250BN of loans. The end deal could be up at a EUR1TRN. The bottom line is that the two biggest members of the EU want this and so it is what is going to happen.
    People tend to underestimate the political will underpinning the EU and the Euro. It's huge. So whatever fate throws at it Gloria Gaynor applies. There is much to be gained from realising this.
    Yep. It's perfectly legitimate to question whether or not the Euro in particular is wise or worth the bother, but the determination to keep it going is immense (and nobody has left the single currency yet, despite regular predictions of collapse since at least 2008.)

    It might yet fall apart, but I'll believe it when I see it and not before.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:
    But don't we still have to fork out for this fund anyway if the transition period is extended, and all the stuff with Cummings is just a Remainer plot to ensure that happens? (I think I'm following this correctly.)
    It's part of the next EU budget which doesn't include the UK. I assume that if the UK extends then an interim bill for the benefit of Single Market access will be thrashed out - hence the 30 June deadline as these things can't be sorted out between 11pm and midnight on 31 December.
    My prediction -

    A deal with phase1 starting 1 Jan 2021. End of FM. Fee for 1 years continued frictionless access to the SM.

    Target date 31 Dec 2021 to agree phase2. The trade deal.

    An extension without an extension. The hot populist issue - immigration - defused.

    The trade deal ends up as close alignment - soft Brexit - possibly after further delay (depending on pandemic and extent of economic and financial crisis).
    Sounds good, but do you think the EU would be happy to pay a fee for a year's continued membership of our single market? Difficult domestic sell for them.
  • kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:
    But don't we still have to fork out for this fund anyway if the transition period is extended, and all the stuff with Cummings is just a Remainer plot to ensure that happens? (I think I'm following this correctly.)
    It's part of the next EU budget which doesn't include the UK. I assume that if the UK extends then an interim bill for the benefit of Single Market access will be thrashed out - hence the 30 June deadline as these things can't be sorted out between 11pm and midnight on 31 December.
    My prediction -

    A deal with phase1 starting 1 Jan 2021. End of FM. Fee for 1 years continued frictionless access to the SM.

    Target date 31 Dec 2021 to agree phase2. The trade deal.

    An extension without an extension. The hot populist issue - immigration - defused.

    The trade deal ends up as close alignment - soft Brexit - possibly after further delay (depending on pandemic and extent of economic and financial crisis).
    If the EU were to accept that, there are 27 other countries that would think, hang on, UK are getting a better deal than we are.
    Not necessarily, the UK would lose all representation at Brussels and would essentially be paying for "access" not "membership" it will have acquired second-class status and not have the ability to strike over agreements.

    Of course all this is theoretical, however your point neatly spells out why existing members always get a better deal than ex or non members.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Are they still going to be asking about Cummings next week?
    Next week definitely, next month probably, next year, possible.

    June 1st 2050:

    PM: So as we have said, our asteroid-interceptors are now locked on and making their final approach on the target, after the Russian and Mexican interceptors failed earlier this week. Our scientists believe there is now only an 36% percentage chance we that will be able to avoid an extinction-level event for the human race.

    Journalist: Please stop dodging the real issues, Prime Minister. Let me ask you again - when is Dominic Cummings going to resign?
    Not even after impact.
    He's heading for the secret bunker under Barnard Castle.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    DougSeal said:
    Wait, so we're now being criticised for something that we might have done if we could have but did not because we could not?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Sandpit said:

    DougSeal said:
    But don't we still have to fork out for this fund anyway if the transition period is extended, and all the stuff with Cummings is just a Remainer plot to ensure that happens? (I think I'm following this correctly.)
    Yes, extending the transition period comes complete with our ‘share’ of the €750bn bill attached to it, as well as the usual £350m a week. Why do you think Barnier is so desparate for the extension?
    Well the bill has already been split across all the payers and all the recpients and has been agreed in that form. Barnier has been explaining to the UK what its options are nothing more. Fortunately the UK government and the whisky salesman who is representing it are keen for the country's economy to get to the bottom of the cliff as quickly as possible.
    It certainly has not been agreed in the EU

    https://twitter.com/EUwatchers/status/1264792337546346496?s=20
    The frugal states have been given what they wanted: EUR250BN has been added as loans with the original EUR500BN in grants retained. I anticipate that it will get to 1trn by the end. In any case the countries which need the money will get it and the countries that want a yield will get theirs.
    You seem to ignore eadric explanation altogether
    Because he hasn't explained anything and referred to an old article. The original plan was EUR500BN of grants. The frugals didn't like it and so the new proposal adds EUR250BN of loans. The end deal could be up at a EUR1TRN. The bottom line is that the two biggest members of the EU want this and so it is what is going to happen.
    You simply don't understand anything.
    Oh thank goodness, I thought I was the only one.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Scott_xP said:
    I wonder how many cities / states will enforce or cooperate with the feds. For instance, Portland mayor is very supportive of ANTIFA.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited May 2020
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    DougSeal said:
    But don't we still have to fork out for this fund anyway if the transition period is extended, and all the stuff with Cummings is just a Remainer plot to ensure that happens? (I think I'm following this correctly.)
    It's part of the next EU budget which doesn't include the UK. I assume that if the UK extends then an interim bill for the benefit of Single Market access will be thrashed out - hence the 30 June deadline as these things can't be sorted out between 11pm and midnight on 31 December.
    The UK will not extend the transistion and the 1st July looks near odds on for the end of negotiations and UK move to WTO

    Barnier still does not seem to understand the transition extension has been legislated against by HMG and the WDA requires in EU law for an extension to be agreed on or before 30th June

    We all need to hope that post the 1st July Barnier will realise he has run out of time and will then address the consequencies
    Barnier definitely knows that; if you know it he knows it.

    No one seems to understand; the EU has set out its stall and that is that ex-members don't get the benefits of existing ones and they certainly don't get preferential access without some commitments. Now you and I can argue about the definition of existing benefits and preferential access and LPF arrangements but the EU is a rules based organisation and what they've offered is is what will be given to the UK.

    The UK is an adolescent based organisation that thinks that intermittently weeping or slamming doors will somehow get it what it wants.

    It won't.
    No weeping, no slamming of doors, just not being dictated to on tax rates, state subsidies, and laws ruled by the ECJ

    I voted remain but since have supported brexit. I regret TM deal was not passed but we are now in a position, especially post covid, that we will be free to act to mitigate the economic damage and do it on our own terms

    Interesting todays poll sees a move to leave and once it becomes clear the EU want 24 billion to keep us in a 2 year transition, and that we become responsible for contributions to Brussels to save the eurozone, that poll is likely to increase substantially
    The idea that we’ll be able to fix the damage from COVID all by ourselves is laughable. There’s never been a better time to be part of a larger bloc.
    Not with the EU economic armageddon
    Why? If theid crist and in general aren't strengthened by Brexit and its influence in Europe will be at its lowest point in centuries.
    Yes yes yes, fascinating.

    Your analysis of the European situation would be more impactful if you hadn't just confirmed that you misunderstand the most basic facts about the EU.

    eg The EU frugals don't want any covid grants, they only want loans. Instead the EU has proposed to do loans AND grants, so the frugals are mightily pissed off.

    https://twitter.com/Jimbo0o0/status/1265551412651573249?s=20

    There, that's your first lesson
    So you still aren't very articulate - its is twenty past five I suppose so its a downward slope from here - there are 27 different voices in the EU, they may all be coming from different positions and with a different shopping list but they will compromise to keep the project going. Thats the thing you don't seem to understand that people can have a larger understanding of the things that affect them.

    Do you actually know any Europeans on a personal or a professional level? If you do maybe ask them whether they would support flouncing out of the EU over supporting the poorer countries and essentially tear up the project and their trading relationships.

    I get the impression your quite tight - in both meanings of the word.
    I get the impression you are an embittered Remoaner who hasn't had sex in several years.

    You all sound the same: you all have that distinctive, reedy, effeminately pompous tone of voice: simultaneously shrill, strident, epicene, and petulant, and typically allied to a bizarre lack of fundamental knowledge, as here.

    I suspect you personally have weirdly shrivelled genitals, giving the appearance of small pieces of coal, like the later Habsburgs.

    While we are making sweeping assumptions... earlier today I heard The Lightning Seeds on the radio, and for some reason thought "I bet men who like this band get cheated on by their girlfriends"
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:
    But don't we still have to fork out for this fund anyway if the transition period is extended, and all the stuff with Cummings is just a Remainer plot to ensure that happens? (I think I'm following this correctly.)
    It's part of the next EU budget which doesn't include the UK. I assume that if the UK extends then an interim bill for the benefit of Single Market access will be thrashed out - hence the 30 June deadline as these things can't be sorted out between 11pm and midnight on 31 December.
    My prediction -

    A deal with phase1 starting 1 Jan 2021. End of FM. Fee for 1 years continued frictionless access to the SM.

    Target date 31 Dec 2021 to agree phase2. The trade deal.

    An extension without an extension. The hot populist issue - immigration - defused.

    The trade deal ends up as close alignment - soft Brexit - possibly after further delay (depending on pandemic and extent of economic and financial crisis).
    If the EU were to accept that, there are 27 other countries that would think, hang on, UK are getting a better deal than we are.
    The fee would need to be enough to address that.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited May 2020

    Alistair said:

    The BLM movement is a bit like Extinction Rebellion. There is a genuine issue, but the leaders of these movements are about much more. They don't just want the police to better held accountable for their crimes or for the government to tilt our economy to be more green to tackle climate change, they want total overthrow of the capitalist system.

    Fairly certain they'd be happy with the state not Murdering Black people with impunity.
    I don't think they'd be happy with that. They still exist in the UK, and our police do not murder black people with impunity.
    Mark Duggan and Jean Charles de Menezes might beg to differ - if they were still alive...
    Blimey I made that comment about Mark Duggan as a joke!!! Fair enough re Jean Charles de Menezes (although was he black?)
  • eadric said:

    eadric said:

    DougSeal said:
    But don't we still have to fork out for this fund anyway if the transition period is extended, and all the stuff with Cummings is just a Remainer plot to ensure that happens? (I think I'm following this correctly.)
    It's part of the next EU budget which doesn't include the UK. I assume that if the UK extends then an interim bill for the benefit of Single Market access will be thrashed out - hence the 30 June deadline as these things can't be sorted out between 11pm and midnight on 31 December.
    The UK will not extend the transistion and the 1st July looks near odds on for the end of negotiations and UK move to WTO

    Barnier still does not seem to understand the transition extension has been legislated against by HMG and the WDA requires in EU law for an extension to be agreed on or before 30th June

    We all need to hope that post the 1st July Barnier will realise he has run out of time and will then address the consequencies
    Barnier definitely knows that; if you know it he knows it.

    No one seems to understand; the EU has set out its stall and that is that ex-members don't get the benefits of existing ones and they certainly don't get preferential access without some commitments. Now you and I can argue about the definition of existing benefits and preferential access and LPF arrangements but the EU is a rules based organisation and what they've offered is is what will be given to the UK.

    The UK is an adolescent based organisation that thinks that intermittently weeping or slamming doors will somehow get it what it wants.

    It won't.
    No weeping, no slamming of doors, just not being dictated to on tax rates, state subsidies, and laws ruled by the ECJ

    I voted remain but since have supported brexit. I regret TM deal was not passed but we are now in a position, especially post covid, that we will be free to act to mitigate the economic damage and do it on our own terms

    Interesting todays poll sees a move to leave and once it becomes clear the EU want 24 billion to keep us in a 2 year transition, and that we become responsible for contributions to Brussels to save the eurozone, that poll is likely to increase substantially
    The idea that we’ll be able to fix the damage from COVID all by ourselves is laughable. There’s never been a better time to be part of a larger bloc.
    Not with the EU economic armageddon
    Why? If theid crist and in general aren't strengthened by Brexit and its influence in Europe will be at its lowest point in centuries.
    Yes yes yes, fascinating.

    Your analysis of the European situation would be more impactful if you hadn't just confirmed that you misunderstand the most basic facts about the EU.

    eg The EU frugals don't want any covid grants, they only want loans. Instead the EU has proposed to do loans AND grants, so the frugals are mightily pissed off.

    https://twitter.com/Jimbo0o0/status/1265551412651573249?s=20

    There, that's your first lesson
    So you still aren't very articulate - its is twenty past five I suppose so its a downward slope from here - there are 27 different voices in the EU, they may all be coming from different positions and with a different shopping list but they will compromise to keep the project going. Thats the thing you don't seem to understand that people can have a larger understanding of the things that affect them.

    Do you actually know any Europeans on a personal or a professional level? If you do maybe ask them whether they would support flouncing out of the EU over supporting the poorer countries and essentially tear up the project and their trading relationships.

    I get the impression your quite tight - in both meanings of the word.
    I get the impression you are an embittered Remoaner who hasn't had sex in several years.

    You all sound the same: you all have that distinctive, reedy, effeminately pompous tone of voice: simultaneously shrill, strident, epicene, and petulant, and typically allied to a bizarre lack of fundamental knowledge, as here.

    I suspect you personally have weirdly shrivelled genitals, giving the appearance of small pieces of coal, like the later Habsburgs.

    So just to be clear, you don't actually know any Europeans?

    Thank you for your concern regarding my genitalia but it is quite misplaced. If you could imagine a massively oversized aubergine and two grapefruits containing levels of energy that Space X would be jealous off you'd be closer to the mark.

    I actually genuinely enjoyed that little snark so keep them coming; the banter at home is nothing on the office sadly!
  • eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    DougSeal said:
    But don't we still have to fork out for this fund anyway if the transition period is extended, and all the stuff with Cummings is just a Remainer plot to ensure that happens? (I think I'm following this correctly.)
    It's part of the next EU budget which doesn't include the UK. I assume that if the UK extends then an interim bill for the benefit of Single Market access will be thrashed out - hence the 30 June deadline as these things can't be sorted out between 11pm and midnight on 31 December.
    The UK will not extend the transistion and the 1st July looks near odds on for the end of negotiations and UK move to WTO

    Barnier still does not seem to understand the transition extension has been legislated against by HMG and the WDA requires in EU law for an extension to be agreed on or before 30th June

    We all need to hope that post the 1st July Barnier will realise he has run out of time and will then address the consequencies
    Barnier definitely knows that; if you know it he knows it.

    No one seems to understand; the EU has set out its stall and that is that ex-members don't get the benefits of existing ones and they certainly don't get preferential access without some commitments. Now you and I can argue about the definition of existing benefits and preferential access and LPF arrangements but the EU is a rules based organisation and what they've offered is is what will be given to the UK.

    The UK is an adolescent based organisation that thinks that intermittently weeping or slamming doors will somehow get it what it wants.

    It won't.
    No weeping, no slamming of doors, just not being dictated to on tax rates, state subsidies, and laws ruled by the ECJ

    I voted remain but since have supported brexit. I regret TM deal was not passed but we are now in a position, especially post covid, that we will be free to act to mitigate the economic damage and do it on our own terms

    Interesting todays poll sees a move to leave and once it becomes clear the EU want 24 billion to keep us in a 2 year transition, and that we become responsible for contributions to Brussels to save the eurozone, that poll is likely to increase substantially
    The idea that we’ll be able to fix the damage from COVID all by ourselves is laughable. There’s never been a better time to be part of a larger bloc.
    Not with the EU economic armageddon
    Why? If theid crist and in general aren't strengthened by Brexit and its influence in Europe will be at its lowest point in centuries.
    Yes yes yes, fascinating.

    Your analysis of the European situation would be more impactful if you hadn't just confirmed that you misunderstand the most basic facts about the EU.

    eg The EU frugals don't want any covid grants, they only want loans. Instead the EU has proposed to do loans AND grants, so the frugals are mightily pissed off.

    https://twitter.com/Jimbo0o0/status/1265551412651573249?s=20

    There, that's your first lesson
    So you still aren't very articulate - its is twenty past five I suppose so its a downward slope from here - there are 27 different voices in the EU, they may all be coming from different positions and with a different shopping list but they will compromise to keep the project going. Thats the thing you don't seem to understand that people can have a larger understanding of the things that affect them.

    Do you actually know any Europeans on a personal or a professional level? If you do maybe ask them whether they would support flouncing out of the EU over supporting the poorer countries and essentially tear up the project and their trading relationships.

    I get the impression your quite tight - in both meanings of the word.
    I get the impression you are an embittered Remoaner who hasn't had sex in several years.

    You all sound the same: you all have that distinctive, reedy, effeminately pompous tone of voice: simultaneously shrill, strident, epicene, and petulant, and typically allied to a bizarre lack of fundamental knowledge, as here.

    I suspect you personally have weirdly shrivelled genitals, giving the appearance of small pieces of coal, like the later Habsburgs.

    So just to be clear, you don't actually know any Europeans?

    Thank you for your concern regarding my genitalia but it is quite misplaced. If you could imagine a massively oversized aubergine and two grapefruits containing levels of energy that Space X would be jealous off you'd be closer to the mark.

    I actually genuinely enjoyed that little snark so keep them coming; the banter at home is nothing on the office sadly!
    I am happy to discourse with you, but can we please keep the focus on the tiny nature of your blackly wizened private parts.
    I worry the other posters would get jealous.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    I was always deeply skeptical of entering into a wide ranging deal with the EU post-Brexit, as is on record, but if we really really must have a deal, I wonder if they'd like an aircraft carrier? Given that the two QE class carriers always seemed destined for the EU army anyway. The EU would love an aircraft carrier.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    DougSeal said:
    Having struggled for four years to come up with a single concrete benefit to Brexit, the fact rhe EU can start making sensible decisions again can perhaps be chalked up as such. It is a matter of opinion whether the UK not being part of that fund is also a benefit.

    On Deal/No Deal; Extension/No Extension. If the UK government is firm on not negotiating past December, and I think it is, it will have to accept whatever is on the table at that point or never have a deal with the EU on anything. No point blaming Michel Barnier, Remoaners etc for the consequences of their choices - although Leavers inevitably do.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149

    I was always deeply skeptical of entering into a wide ranging deal with the EU post-Brexit, as is on record, but if we really really must have a deal, I wonder if they'd like an aircraft carrier? Given that the two QE class carriers always seemed destined for the EU army anyway. The EU would love an aircraft carrier.

    Given the government had wanted to cancel the programme for them but found it prohibitive to do so, why not I guess.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    isam said:

    Alistair said:

    The BLM movement is a bit like Extinction Rebellion. There is a genuine issue, but the leaders of these movements are about much more. They don't just want the police to better held accountable for their crimes or for the government to tilt our economy to be more green to tackle climate change, they want total overthrow of the capitalist system.

    Fairly certain they'd be happy with the state not Murdering Black people with impunity.
    I don't think they'd be happy with that. They still exist in the UK, and our police do not murder black people with impunity.
    Mark Duggan and Jean Charles de Menezes might beg to differ - if they were still alive...
    Blimey I made that comment about Mark Duggan as a joke!!! Fair enough re Jean Charles de Menezes (although was he black?)
    No, he was caucasion.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675

    I was always deeply skeptical of entering into a wide ranging deal with the EU post-Brexit, as is on record, but if we really really must have a deal, I wonder if they'd like an aircraft carrier? Given that the two QE class carriers always seemed destined for the EU army anyway. The EU would love an aircraft carrier.

    What would an army want with aircraft carriers?

    A navy perhaps.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:
    But don't we still have to fork out for this fund anyway if the transition period is extended, and all the stuff with Cummings is just a Remainer plot to ensure that happens? (I think I'm following this correctly.)
    It's part of the next EU budget which doesn't include the UK. I assume that if the UK extends then an interim bill for the benefit of Single Market access will be thrashed out - hence the 30 June deadline as these things can't be sorted out between 11pm and midnight on 31 December.
    My prediction -

    A deal with phase1 starting 1 Jan 2021. End of FM. Fee for 1 years continued frictionless access to the SM.

    Target date 31 Dec 2021 to agree phase2. The trade deal.

    An extension without an extension. The hot populist issue - immigration - defused.

    The trade deal ends up as close alignment - soft Brexit - possibly after further delay (depending on pandemic and extent of economic and financial crisis).
    Sounds good, but do you think the EU would be happy to pay a fee for a year's continued membership of our single market? Difficult domestic sell for them.
    OK that merits a ☺ - I'm a fair person.

    But please note my prediction. I think this is what will happen.

    End of FM. Fee for a year of frictionless access to the SM.

    Extension without an extension.

    Borders reclaimed. Red Wallers happy.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608
    Scott_xP said:

    Brexiteers still seem to think the negotiations are a game of chicken, and have yet to work out the EU is a train...

    The EU have yet to work out they are heading full steam for the buffers.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    kle4 said:

    I was always deeply skeptical of entering into a wide ranging deal with the EU post-Brexit, as is on record, but if we really really must have a deal, I wonder if they'd like an aircraft carrier? Given that the two QE class carriers always seemed destined for the EU army anyway. The EU would love an aircraft carrier.

    Given the government had wanted to cancel the programme for them but found it prohibitive to do so, why not I guess.
    Quite. I see a point (sort of) in having one, or a couple of small ones, but two great hulking beasts that we don't have planes for - they are a liability. We will have to get planes, at even more expense. The EU could presumably afford to run them, and would greatly enjoy sending them to world trouble spots proudly fluttering the spangly blue banner. They would think it a bargain, as they'll never get member states to cough up enough to have one built.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Highbury was equally quiet, but at least it was beautiful
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Scott_xP said:

    Brexiteers still seem to think the negotiations are a game of chicken, and have yet to work out the EU is a train...

    The EU have yet to work out they are heading full steam for the buffers.
    Yes, in the minds of PB Tories we still hold all the cards!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482

    I was always deeply skeptical of entering into a wide ranging deal with the EU post-Brexit, as is on record, but if we really really must have a deal, I wonder if they'd like an aircraft carrier? Given that the two QE class carriers always seemed destined for the EU army anyway. The EU would love an aircraft carrier.

    What would an army want with aircraft carriers?

    A navy perhaps.
    Well-corrected. An EU Navy.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    He gets points for using 'foment' not confusing it with 'ferment'.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    DougSeal said:
    But don't we still have to fork out for this fund anyway if the transition period is extended, and all the stuff with Cummings is just a Remainer plot to ensure that happens? (I think I'm following this correctly.)
    It's part of the next EU budget which doesn't include the UK. I assume that if the UK extends then an interim bill for the benefit of Single Market access will be thrashed out - hence the 30 June deadline as these things can't be sorted out between 11pm and midnight on 31 December.
    The UK will not extend the transistion and the 1st July looks near odds on for the end of negotiations and UK move to WTO

    Barnier still does not seem to understand the transition extension has been legislated against by HMG and the WDA requires in EU law for an extension to be agreed on or before 30th June

    We all need to hope that post the 1st July Barnier will realise he has run out of time and will then address the consequencies
    Barnier definitely knows that; if you know it he knows it.

    No one seems to understand; the EU has set out its stall and that is that ex-members don't get the benefits of existing ones and they certainly don't get preferential access without some commitments. Now you and I can argue about the definition of existing benefits and preferential access and LPF arrangements but the EU is a rules based organisation and what they've offered is is what will be given to the UK.

    The UK is an adolescent based organisation that thinks that intermittently weeping or slamming doors will somehow get it what it wants.

    It won't.
    No weeping, no slamming of doors, just not being dictated to on tax rates, state subsidies, and laws ruled by the ECJ

    I voted remain but since have supported brexit. I regret TM deal was not passed but we are now in a position, especially post covid, that we will be free to act to mitigate the economic damage and do it on our own terms

    Interesting todays poll sees a move to leave and once it becomes clear the EU want 24 billion to keep us in a 2 year transition, and that we become responsible for contributions to Brussels to save the eurozone, that poll is likely to increase substantially
    The idea that we’ll be able to fix the damage from COVID all by ourselves is laughable. There’s never been a better time to be part of a larger bloc.
    Not with the EU economic armageddon
    Why? If theid crist and in general aren't strengthened by Brexit and its influence in Europe will be at its lowest point in centuries.
    Yes yes yes, fascinating.

    Your analysis of the European situation would be more impactful if you hadn't just confirmed that you misunderstand the most basic facts about the EU.

    eg The EU frugals don't want any covid grants, they only want loans. Instead the EU has proposed to do loans AND grants, so the frugals are mightily pissed off.

    https://twitter.com/Jimbo0o0/status/1265551412651573249?s=20

    There, that's your first lesson
    So you still aren't very articulate - its is twenty past five I suppose so its a downward slope from here - there are 27 different voices in the EU, they may all be coming from different positions and with a different shopping list but they will compromise to keep the project going. Thats the thing you don't seem to understand that people can have a larger understanding of the things that affect them.

    Do you actually know any Europeans on a personal or a professional level? If you do maybe ask them whether they would support flouncing out of the EU over supporting the poorer countries and essentially tear up the project and their trading relationships.

    I get the impression your quite tight - in both meanings of the word.
    I get the impression you are an embittered Remoaner who hasn't had sex in several years.

    You all sound the same: you all have that distinctive, reedy, effeminately pompous tone of voice: simultaneously shrill, strident, epicene, and petulant, and typically allied to a bizarre lack of fundamental knowledge, as here.

    I suspect you personally have weirdly shrivelled genitals, giving the appearance of small pieces of coal, like the later Habsburgs.

    So just to be clear, you don't actually know any Europeans?

    Thank you for your concern regarding my genitalia but it is quite misplaced. If you could imagine a massively oversized aubergine and two grapefruits containing levels of energy that Space X would be jealous off you'd be closer to the mark.

    I actually genuinely enjoyed that little snark so keep them coming; the banter at home is nothing on the office sadly!
    I am happy to discourse with you, but can we please keep the focus on the tiny nature of your blackly wizened private parts.
    I worry the other posters would get jealous.
    Get a room!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    isam said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    DougSeal said:
    But don't we still have to fork out for this fund anyway if the transition period is extended, and all the stuff with Cummings is just a Remainer plot to ensure that happens? (I think I'm following this correctly.)
    It's part of the next EU budget which doesn't include the UK. I assume that if the UK extends then an interim bill for the benefit of Single Market access will be thrashed out - hence the 30 June deadline as these things can't be sorted out between 11pm and midnight on 31 December.
    The UK will not extend the transistion and the 1st July looks near odds on for the end of negotiations and UK move to WTO

    Barnier still does not seem to understand the transition extension has been legislated against by HMG and the WDA requires in EU law for an extension to be agreed on or before 30th June

    We all need to hope that post the 1st July Barnier will realise he has run out of time and will then address the consequencies
    Barnier definitely knows that; if you know it he knows it.

    No one seems to understand; the EU has set out its stall and that is that ex-members don't get the benefits of existing ones and they certainly don't get preferential access without some commitments. Now you and I can argue about the definition of existing benefits and preferential access and LPF arrangements but the EU is a rules based organisation and what they've offered is is what will be given to the UK.

    The UK is an adolescent based organisation that thinks that intermittently weeping or slamming doors will somehow get it what it wants.

    It won't.
    No weeping, no slamming of doors, just not being dictated to on tax rates, state subsidies, and laws ruled by the ECJ

    I voted remain but since have supported brexit. I regret TM deal was not passed but we are now in a position, especially post covid, that we will be free to act to mitigate the economic damage and do it on our own terms

    Interesting todays poll sees a move to leave and once it becomes clear the EU want 24 billion to keep us in a 2 year transition, and that we become responsible for contributions to Brussels to save the eurozone, that poll is likely to increase substantially
    The idea that we’ll be able to fix the damage from COVID all by ourselves is laughable. There’s never been a better time to be part of a larger bloc.
    Not with the EU economic armageddon
    Why? If theid crist and in general aren't strengthened by Brexit and its influence in Europe will be at its lowest point in centuries.
    Yes yes yes, fascinating.

    Your analysis of the European situation would be more impactful if you hadn't just confirmed that you misunderstand the most basic facts about the EU.

    eg The EU frugals don't want any covid grants, they only want loans. Instead the EU has proposed to do loans AND grants, so the frugals are mightily pissed off.

    https://twitter.com/Jimbo0o0/status/1265551412651573249?s=20

    There, that's your first lesson
    So you still aren't very articulate - its is twenty past five I suppose so its a downward slope from here - there are 27 different voices in the EU, they may all be coming from different positions and with a different shopping list but they will compromise to keep the project going. Thats the thing you don't seem to understand that people can have a larger understanding of the things that affect them.

    Do you actually know any Europeans on a personal or a professional level? If you do maybe ask them whether they would support flouncing out of the EU over supporting the poorer countries and essentially tear up the project and their trading relationships.

    I get the impression your quite tight - in both meanings of the word.
    I get the impression you are an embittered Remoaner who hasn't had sex in several years.

    You all sound the same: you all have that distinctive, reedy, effeminately pompous tone of voice: simultaneously shrill, strident, epicene, and petulant, and typically allied to a bizarre lack of fundamental knowledge, as here.

    I suspect you personally have weirdly shrivelled genitals, giving the appearance of small pieces of coal, like the later Habsburgs.

    While we are making sweeping assumptions... earlier today I heard The Lightning Seeds on the radio, and for some reason thought "I bet men who like this band get cheated on by their girlfriends"
    Cuckold Rock - probably a whole genre here if one cares to explores it.

    Supertramp?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    He gets points for using 'foment' not confusing it with 'ferment'.
    Indicating that tweet was one Mike Pence wrote for him earlier.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,600
    Churches without hymns is like PB without opinion polls.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751

    He gets points for using 'foment' not confusing it with 'ferment'.
    Pedants aren't going to like "Media is doing everything within their power", though.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,528
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:
    But don't we still have to fork out for this fund anyway if the transition period is extended, and all the stuff with Cummings is just a Remainer plot to ensure that happens? (I think I'm following this correctly.)
    It's part of the next EU budget which doesn't include the UK. I assume that if the UK extends then an interim bill for the benefit of Single Market access will be thrashed out - hence the 30 June deadline as these things can't be sorted out between 11pm and midnight on 31 December.
    My prediction -

    A deal with phase1 starting 1 Jan 2021. End of FM. Fee for 1 years continued frictionless access to the SM.

    Target date 31 Dec 2021 to agree phase2. The trade deal.

    An extension without an extension. The hot populist issue - immigration - defused.

    The trade deal ends up as close alignment - soft Brexit - possibly after further delay (depending on pandemic and extent of economic and financial crisis).
    If the EU were to accept that, there are 27 other countries that would think, hang on, UK are getting a better deal than we are.
    The fee would need to be enough to address that.
    £350m a week?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    DougSeal said:
    But don't we still have to fork out for this fund anyway if the transition period is extended, and all the stuff with Cummings is just a Remainer plot to ensure that happens? (I think I'm following this correctly.)
    It's part of the next EU budget which doesn't include the UK. I assume that if the UK extends then an interim bill for the benefit of Single Market access will be thrashed out - hence the 30 June deadline as these things can't be sorted out between 11pm and midnight on 31 December.
    The UK will not extend the transistion and the 1st July looks near odds on for the end of negotiations and UK move to WTO

    Barnier still does not seem to understand the transition extension has been legislated against by HMG and the WDA requires in EU law for an extension to be agreed on or before 30th June

    We all need to hope that post the 1st July Barnier will realise he has run out of time and will then address the consequencies
    Barnier definitely knows that; if you know it he knows it.

    No one seems to understand; the EU has set out its stall and that is that ex-members don't get the benefits of existing ones and they certainly don't get preferential access without some commitments. Now you and I can argue about the definition of existing benefits and preferential access and LPF arrangements but the EU is a rules based organisation and what they've offered is is what will be given to the UK.

    The UK is an adolescent based organisation that thinks that intermittently weeping or slamming doors will somehow get it what it wants.

    It won't.
    No weeping, no slamming of doors, just not being dictated to on tax rates, state subsidies, and laws ruled by the ECJ

    I voted remain but since have supported brexit. I regret TM deal was not passed but we are now in a position, especially post covid, that we will be free to act to mitigate the economic damage and do it on our own terms

    Interesting todays poll sees a move to leave and once it becomes clear the EU want 24 billion to keep us in a 2 year transition, and that we become responsible for contributions to Brussels to save the eurozone, that poll is likely to increase substantially
    The idea that we’ll be able to fix the damage from COVID all by ourselves is laughable. There’s never been a better time to be part of a larger bloc.
    Not with the EU economic armageddon
    Why? If theid crist and in general aren't strengthened by Brexit and its influence in Europe will be at its lowest point in centuries.
    Yes yes yes, fascinating.

    Your analysis of the European situation would be more impactful if you hadn't just confirmed that you misunderstand the most basic facts about the EU.

    eg The EU frugals don't want any covid grants, they only want loans. Instead the EU has proposed to do loans AND grants, so the frugals are mightily pissed off.

    https://twitter.com/Jimbo0o0/status/1265551412651573249?s=20

    There, that's your first lesson
    So you still aren't very articulate - its is twenty past five I suppose so its a downward slope from here - there are 27 different voices in the EU, they may all be coming from different positions and with a different shopping list but they will compromise to keep the project going. Thats the thing you don't seem to understand that people can have a larger understanding of the things that affect them.

    Do you actually know any Europeans on a personal or a professional level? If you do maybe ask them whether they would support flouncing out of the EU over supporting the poorer countries and essentially tear up the project and their trading relationships.

    I get the impression your quite tight - in both meanings of the word.
    I get the impression you are an embittered Remoaner who hasn't had sex in several years.

    You all sound the same: you all have that distinctive, reedy, effeminately pompous tone of voice: simultaneously shrill, strident, epicene, and petulant, and typically allied to a bizarre lack of fundamental knowledge, as here.

    I suspect you personally have weirdly shrivelled genitals, giving the appearance of small pieces of coal, like the later Habsburgs.

    While we are making sweeping assumptions... earlier today I heard The Lightning Seeds on the radio, and for some reason thought "I bet men who like this band get cheated on by their girlfriends"
    Cuckold Rock - probably a whole genre here if one cares to explores it.

    Supertramp?
    coldplay
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    DougSeal said:
    But don't we still have to fork out for this fund anyway if the transition period is extended, and all the stuff with Cummings is just a Remainer plot to ensure that happens? (I think I'm following this correctly.)
    It's part of the next EU budget which doesn't include the UK. I assume that if the UK extends then an interim bill for the benefit of Single Market access will be thrashed out - hence the 30 June deadline as these things can't be sorted out between 11pm and midnight on 31 December.
    The UK will not extend the transistion and the 1st July looks near odds on for the end of negotiations and UK move to WTO

    Barnier still does not seem to understand the transition extension has been legislated against by HMG and the WDA requires in EU law for an extension to be agreed on or before 30th June

    We all need to hope that post the 1st July Barnier will realise he has run out of time and will then address the consequencies
    Barnier definitely knows that; if you know it he knows it.

    No one seems to understand; the EU has set out its stall and that is that ex-members don't get the benefits of existing ones and they certainly don't get preferential access without some commitments. Now you and I can argue about the definition of existing benefits and preferential access and LPF arrangements but the EU is a rules based organisation and what they've offered is is what will be given to the UK.

    The UK is an adolescent based organisation that thinks that intermittently weeping or slamming doors will somehow get it what it wants.

    It won't.
    No weeping, no slamming of doors, just not being dictated to on tax rates, state subsidies, and laws ruled by the ECJ

    I voted remain but since have supported brexit. I regret TM deal was not passed but we are now in a position, especially post covid, that we will be free to act to mitigate the economic damage and do it on our own terms

    Interesting todays poll sees a move to leave and once it becomes clear the EU want 24 billion to keep us in a 2 year transition, and that we become responsible for contributions to Brussels to save the eurozone, that poll is likely to increase substantially
    The idea that we’ll be able to fix the damage from COVID all by ourselves is laughable. There’s never been a better time to be part of a larger bloc.
    Not with the EU economic armageddon
    Why? If theid crist and in general aren't strengthened by Brexit and its influence in Europe will be at its lowest point in centuries.
    Yes yes yes, fascinating.

    Your analysis of the European situation would be more impactful if you hadn't just confirmed that you misunderstand the most basic facts about the EU.

    eg The EU frugals don't want any covid grants, they only want loans. Instead the EU has proposed to do loans AND grants, so the frugals are mightily pissed off.

    https://twitter.com/Jimbo0o0/status/1265551412651573249?s=20

    There, that's your first lesson
    So you still aren't very articulate - its is twenty past five I suppose so its a downward slope from here - there are 27 different voices in the EU, they may all be coming from different positions and with a different shopping list but they will compromise to keep the project going. Thats the thing you don't seem to understand that people can have a larger understanding of the things that affect them.

    Do you actually know any Europeans on a personal or a professional level? If you do maybe ask them whether they would support flouncing out of the EU over supporting the poorer countries and essentially tear up the project and their trading relationships.

    I get the impression your quite tight - in both meanings of the word.
    I get the impression you are an embittered Remoaner who hasn't had sex in several years.

    You all sound the same: you all have that distinctive, reedy, effeminately pompous tone of voice: simultaneously shrill, strident, epicene, and petulant, and typically allied to a bizarre lack of fundamental knowledge, as here.

    I suspect you personally have weirdly shrivelled genitals, giving the appearance of small pieces of coal, like the later Habsburgs.

    So just to be clear, you don't actually know any Europeans?

    Thank you for your concern regarding my genitalia but it is quite misplaced. If you could imagine a massively oversized aubergine and two grapefruits containing levels of energy that Space X would be jealous off you'd be closer to the mark.

    I actually genuinely enjoyed that little snark so keep them coming; the banter at home is nothing on the office sadly!
    I am happy to discourse with you, but can we please keep the focus on the tiny nature of your blackly wizened private parts.
    Surely because of advanced age, Leavers are much more likely to have atrophic genitalia, with the young and virile Remainers quite priapic in contrast, or pneumatic in the case of the females.

    :D
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482

    He gets points for using 'foment' not confusing it with 'ferment'.
    Indicating that tweet was one Mike Pence wrote for him earlier.
    :lol: Could be.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,240

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:
    But don't we still have to fork out for this fund anyway if the transition period is extended, and all the stuff with Cummings is just a Remainer plot to ensure that happens? (I think I'm following this correctly.)
    It's part of the next EU budget which doesn't include the UK. I assume that if the UK extends then an interim bill for the benefit of Single Market access will be thrashed out - hence the 30 June deadline as these things can't be sorted out between 11pm and midnight on 31 December.
    My prediction -

    A deal with phase1 starting 1 Jan 2021. End of FM. Fee for 1 years continued frictionless access to the SM.

    Target date 31 Dec 2021 to agree phase2. The trade deal.

    An extension without an extension. The hot populist issue - immigration - defused.

    The trade deal ends up as close alignment - soft Brexit - possibly after further delay (depending on pandemic and extent of economic and financial crisis).
    If the EU were to accept that, there are 27 other countries that would think, hang on, UK are getting a better deal than we are.
    The fee would need to be enough to address that.
    £350m a week?
    If the EU really wanted to stir (innocent face), how about £300m a week? After all, that would be cheaper than Boris told everyone full membership was...
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    My source in the financial services sector (OK, my nephew) reckons that some companies in the sector aren't looking at reopening offices until next year. And even then, attendance will be optional. Providers of food and drink in the City and Docklands might as well give up now.

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    Andy_JS said:

    Churches without hymns is like PB without opinion polls.
    Some of the Ulster Prod lot only sing psalms. The ones that don't celebrate Christmas.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Had begun to wonder if the robust policing in the USA had changed in any way for the better over the last 50 years.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:
    But don't we still have to fork out for this fund anyway if the transition period is extended, and all the stuff with Cummings is just a Remainer plot to ensure that happens? (I think I'm following this correctly.)
    It's part of the next EU budget which doesn't include the UK. I assume that if the UK extends then an interim bill for the benefit of Single Market access will be thrashed out - hence the 30 June deadline as these things can't be sorted out between 11pm and midnight on 31 December.
    My prediction -

    A deal with phase1 starting 1 Jan 2021. End of FM. Fee for 1 years continued frictionless access to the SM.

    Target date 31 Dec 2021 to agree phase2. The trade deal.

    An extension without an extension. The hot populist issue - immigration - defused.

    The trade deal ends up as close alignment - soft Brexit - possibly after further delay (depending on pandemic and extent of economic and financial crisis).
    If the EU were to accept that, there are 27 other countries that would think, hang on, UK are getting a better deal than we are.
    The fee would need to be enough to address that.
    £350m a week?
    If the EU really wanted to stir (innocent face), how about £300m a week? After all, that would be cheaper than Boris told everyone full membership was...
    If we gave them the aircraft carrier, most of the spending would be in our past. But saving them from an awful lot of spending in their future.

    I would throw in Trident for the same reasons if I thought the EU would be daft enough to want it.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675
    edited May 2020

    My source in the financial services sector (OK, my nephew) reckons that some companies in the sector aren't looking at reopening offices until next year. And even then, attendance will be optional. Providers of food and drink in the City and Docklands might as well give up now.

    We're working on the assumption of at least one spike at the time of normal flu season, so we're prepped for working at home until February/March time, absent a vaccine.

    There's no way a staggered working day works for us, especially as most of us commute on the train/tram where service is going to be reduced to 20% capacity.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:
    But don't we still have to fork out for this fund anyway if the transition period is extended, and all the stuff with Cummings is just a Remainer plot to ensure that happens? (I think I'm following this correctly.)
    It's part of the next EU budget which doesn't include the UK. I assume that if the UK extends then an interim bill for the benefit of Single Market access will be thrashed out - hence the 30 June deadline as these things can't be sorted out between 11pm and midnight on 31 December.
    My prediction -

    A deal with phase1 starting 1 Jan 2021. End of FM. Fee for 1 years continued frictionless access to the SM.

    Target date 31 Dec 2021 to agree phase2. The trade deal.

    An extension without an extension. The hot populist issue - immigration - defused.

    The trade deal ends up as close alignment - soft Brexit - possibly after further delay (depending on pandemic and extent of economic and financial crisis).
    If the EU were to accept that, there are 27 other countries that would think, hang on, UK are getting a better deal than we are.
    The fee would need to be enough to address that.
    £350m a week?
    ☺ - has a certain ring to it.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Not only the poisoned dwarf - but also the nonce finder general......

    https://twitter.com/nthurlbeck/status/1267146129101262859?s=20
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    DougSeal said:
    But don't we still have to fork out for this fund anyway if the transition period is extended, and all the stuff with Cummings is just a Remainer plot to ensure that happens? (I think I'm following this correctly.)
    It's part of the next EU budget which doesn't include the UK. I assume that if the UK extends then an interim bill for the benefit of Single Market access will be thrashed out - hence the 30 June deadline as these things can't be sorted out between 11pm and midnight on 31 December.
    The UK will not extend the transistion and the 1st July looks near odds on for the end of negotiations and UK move to WTO

    Barnier still does not seem to understand the transition extension has been legislated against by HMG and the WDA requires in EU law for an extension to be agreed on or before 30th June

    We all need to hope that post the 1st July Barnier will realise he has run out of time and will then address the consequencies
    Barnier definitely knows that; if you know it he knows it.

    No one seems to understand; the EU has set out its stall and that is that ex-members don't get the benefits of existing ones and they certainly don't get preferential access without some commitments. Now you and I can argue about the definition of existing benefits and preferential access and LPF arrangements but the EU is a rules based organisation and what they've offered is is what will be given to the UK.

    The UK is an adolescent based organisation that thinks that intermittently weeping or slamming doors will somehow get it what it wants.

    It won't.
    No weeping, no slamming of doors, just not being dictated to on tax rates, state subsidies, and laws ruled by the ECJ

    I voted remain but since have supported brexit. I regret TM deal was not passed but we are now in a position, especially post covid, that we will be free to act to mitigate the economic damage and do it on our own terms

    Interesting todays poll sees a move to leave and once it becomes clear the EU want 24 billion to keep us in a 2 year transition, and that we become responsible for contributions to Brussels to save the eurozone, that poll is likely to increase substantially
    The idea that we’ll be able to fix the damage from COVID all by ourselves is laughable. There’s never been a better time to be part of a larger bloc.
    Not with the EU economic armageddon
    Why? If theid crist and in general aren't strengthened by Brexit and its influence in Europe will be at its lowest point in centuries.
    Yes yes yes, fascinating.

    Your analysis of the European situation would be more impactful if you hadn't just confirmed that you misunderstand the most basic facts about the EU.

    eg The EU frugals don't want any covid grants, they only want loans. Instead the EU has proposed to do loans AND grants, so the frugals are mightily pissed off.

    https://twitter.com/Jimbo0o0/status/1265551412651573249?s=20

    There, that's your first lesson
    So you still aren't very articulate - its is twenty past five I suppose so its a downward slope from here - there are 27 different voices in the EU, they may all be coming from different positions and with a different shopping list but they will compromise to keep the project going. Thats the thing you don't seem to understand that people can have a larger understanding of the things that affect them.

    Do you actually know any Europeans on a personal or a professional level? If you do maybe ask them whether they would support flouncing out of the EU over supporting the poorer countries and essentially tear up the project and their trading relationships.

    I get the impression your quite tight - in both meanings of the word.
    I get the impression you are an embittered Remoaner who hasn't had sex in several years.

    You all sound the same: you all have that distinctive, reedy, effeminately pompous tone of voice: simultaneously shrill, strident, epicene, and petulant, and typically allied to a bizarre lack of fundamental knowledge, as here.

    I suspect you personally have weirdly shrivelled genitals, giving the appearance of small pieces of coal, like the later Habsburgs.

    While we are making sweeping assumptions... earlier today I heard The Lightning Seeds on the radio, and for some reason thought "I bet men who like this band get cheated on by their girlfriends"
    Cuckold Rock - probably a whole genre here if one cares to explores it.

    Supertramp?
    Cuckold Rock, very good!

    Coldplay, as someone else said, or is that more Boffin Rock?


  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,600
    dr_spyn said:

    Had begun to wonder if the robust policing in the USA had changed in any way for the better over the last 50 years.

    The problem with the American police is that they seem more like a military force than a civilian one, and that annoys a lot of people when they encounter them.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,775

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:
    But don't we still have to fork out for this fund anyway if the transition period is extended, and all the stuff with Cummings is just a Remainer plot to ensure that happens? (I think I'm following this correctly.)
    It's part of the next EU budget which doesn't include the UK. I assume that if the UK extends then an interim bill for the benefit of Single Market access will be thrashed out - hence the 30 June deadline as these things can't be sorted out between 11pm and midnight on 31 December.
    My prediction -

    A deal with phase1 starting 1 Jan 2021. End of FM. Fee for 1 years continued frictionless access to the SM.

    Target date 31 Dec 2021 to agree phase2. The trade deal.

    An extension without an extension. The hot populist issue - immigration - defused.

    The trade deal ends up as close alignment - soft Brexit - possibly after further delay (depending on pandemic and extent of economic and financial crisis).
    If the EU were to accept that, there are 27 other countries that would think, hang on, UK are getting a better deal than we are.
    The fee would need to be enough to address that.
    £350m a week?
    If the EU really wanted to stir (innocent face), how about £300m a week? After all, that would be cheaper than Boris told everyone full membership was...
    If we gave them the aircraft carrier, most of the spending would be in our past. But saving them from an awful lot of spending in their future.

    I would throw in Trident for the same reasons if I thought the EU would be daft enough to want it.
    Giving the Brown Aircraft Carriers away is probably the cheapest option. In my view they are hopeless militarily.

    Trident isn't worthless though.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    DougSeal said:
    But don't we still have to fork out for this fund anyway if the transition period is extended, and all the stuff with Cummings is just a Remainer plot to ensure that happens? (I think I'm following this correctly.)
    It's part of the next EU budget which doesn't include the UK. I assume that if the UK extends then an interim bill for the benefit of Single Market access will be thrashed out - hence the 30 June deadline as these things can't be sorted out between 11pm and midnight on 31 December.
    The UK will not extend the transistion and the 1st July looks near odds on for the end of negotiations and UK move to WTO

    Barnier still does not seem to understand the transition extension has been legislated against by HMG and the WDA requires in EU law for an extension to be agreed on or before 30th June

    We all need to hope that post the 1st July Barnier will realise he has run out of time and will then address the consequencies
    Barnier definitely knows that; if you know it he knows it.

    No one seems to understand; the EU has set out its stall and that is that ex-members don't get the benefits of existing ones and they certainly don't get preferential access without some commitments. Now you and I can argue about the definition of existing benefits and preferential access and LPF arrangements but the EU is a rules based organisation and what they've offered is is what will be given to the UK.

    The UK is an adolescent based organisation that thinks that intermittently weeping or slamming doors will somehow get it what it wants.

    It won't.
    No weeping, no slamming of doors, just not being dictated to on tax rates, state subsidies, and laws ruled by the ECJ

    I voted remain but since have supported brexit. I regret TM deal was not passed but we are now in a position, especially post covid, that we will be free to act to mitigate the economic damage and do it on our own terms

    Interesting todays poll sees a move to leave and once it becomes clear the EU want 24 billion to keep us in a 2 year transition, and that we become responsible for contributions to Brussels to save the eurozone, that poll is likely to increase substantially
    The idea that we’ll be able to fix the damage from COVID all by ourselves is laughable. There’s never been a better time to be part of a larger bloc.
    Not with the EU economic armageddon
    Why? If theid crist and in general aren't strengthened by Brexit and its influence in Europe will be at its lowest point in centuries.
    Yes yes yes, fascinating.

    Your analysis of the European situation would be more impactful if you hadn't just confirmed that you misunderstand the most basic facts about the EU.

    eg The EU frugals don't want any covid grants, they only want loans. Instead the EU has proposed to do loans AND grants, so the frugals are mightily pissed off.

    https://twitter.com/Jimbo0o0/status/1265551412651573249?s=20

    There, that's your first lesson
    So you still aren't very articulate - its is twenty past five I suppose so its a downward slope from here - there are 27 different voices in the EU, they may all be coming from different positions and with a different shopping list but they will compromise to keep the project going. Thats the thing you don't seem to understand that people can have a larger understanding of the things that affect them.

    Do you actually know any Europeans on a personal or a professional level? If you do maybe ask them whether they would support flouncing out of the EU over supporting the poorer countries and essentially tear up the project and their trading relationships.

    I get the impression your quite tight - in both meanings of the word.
    I get the impression you are an embittered Remoaner who hasn't had sex in several years.

    You all sound the same: you all have that distinctive, reedy, effeminately pompous tone of voice: simultaneously shrill, strident, epicene, and petulant, and typically allied to a bizarre lack of fundamental knowledge, as here.

    I suspect you personally have weirdly shrivelled genitals, giving the appearance of small pieces of coal, like the later Habsburgs.

    While we are making sweeping assumptions... earlier today I heard The Lightning Seeds on the radio, and for some reason thought "I bet men who like this band get cheated on by their girlfriends"
    Cuckold Rock - probably a whole genre here if one cares to explores it.

    Supertramp?
    coldplay
    Oh god yes.

    Man sits there moping around to "Yellow" while wife is at the club working on her backhand.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599

    Not only the poisoned dwarf - but also the nonce finder general......

    ttps://twitter.com/nthurlbeck/status/1267146129101262859?s=20

    Hopefully the start of honours being reserved for those most deserving of them, rather than simply handed out for length of service.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    DougSeal said:
    But don't we still have to fork out for this fund anyway if the transition period is extended, and all the stuff with Cummings is just a Remainer plot to ensure that happens? (I think I'm following this correctly.)
    It's part of the next EU budget which doesn't include the UK. I assume that if the UK extends then an interim bill for the benefit of Single Market access will be thrashed out - hence the 30 June deadline as these things can't be sorted out between 11pm and midnight on 31 December.
    The UK will not extend the transistion and the 1st July looks near odds on for the end of negotiations and UK move to WTO

    Barnier still does not seem to understand the transition extension has been legislated against by HMG and the WDA requires in EU law for an extension to be agreed on or before 30th June

    We all need to hope that post the 1st July Barnier will realise he has run out of time and will then address the consequencies
    Barnier definitely knows that; if you know it he knows it.

    No one seems to understand; the EU has set out its stall and that is that ex-members don't get the benefits of existing ones and they certainly don't get preferential access without some commitments. Now you and I can argue about the definition of existing benefits and preferential access and LPF arrangements but the EU is a rules based organisation and what they've offered is is what will be given to the UK.

    The UK is an adolescent based organisation that thinks that intermittently weeping or slamming doors will somehow get it what it wants.

    It won't.
    No weeping, no slamming of doors, just not being dictated to on tax rates, state subsidies, and laws ruled by the ECJ

    I voted remain but since have supported brexit. I regret TM deal was not passed but we are now in a position, especially post covid, that we will be free to act to mitigate the economic damage and do it on our own terms

    Interesting todays poll sees a move to leave and once it becomes clear the EU want 24 billion to keep us in a 2 year transition, and that we become responsible for contributions to Brussels to save the eurozone, that poll is likely to increase substantially
    The idea that we’ll be able to fix the damage from COVID all by ourselves is laughable. There’s never been a better time to be part of a larger bloc.
    Not with the EU economic armageddon
    Why? If theid crist and in general aren't strengthened by Brexit and its influence in Europe will be at its lowest point in centuries.
    Yes yes yes, fascinating.

    Your analysis of the European situation would be more impactful if you hadn't just confirmed that you misunderstand the most basic facts about the EU.

    eg The EU frugals don't want any covid grants, they only want loans. Instead the EU has proposed to do loans AND grants, so the frugals are mightily pissed off.

    https://twitter.com/Jimbo0o0/status/1265551412651573249?s=20

    There, that's your first lesson
    So you still aren't very articulate - its is twenty past five I suppose so its a downward slope from here - there are 27 different voices in the EU, they may all be coming from different positions and with a different shopping list but they will compromise to keep the project going. Thats the thing you don't seem to understand that people can have a larger understanding of the things that affect them.

    Do you actually know any Europeans on a personal or a professional level? If you do maybe ask them whether they would support flouncing out of the EU over supporting the poorer countries and essentially tear up the project and their trading relationships.

    I get the impression your quite tight - in both meanings of the word.
    I get the impression you are an embittered Remoaner who hasn't had sex in several years.

    You all sound the same: you all have that distinctive, reedy, effeminately pompous tone of voice: simultaneously shrill, strident, epicene, and petulant, and typically allied to a bizarre lack of fundamental knowledge, as here.

    I suspect you personally have weirdly shrivelled genitals, giving the appearance of small pieces of coal, like the later Habsburgs.

    While we are making sweeping assumptions... earlier today I heard The Lightning Seeds on the radio, and for some reason thought "I bet men who like this band get cheated on by their girlfriends"
    Cuckold Rock - probably a whole genre here if one cares to explores it.

    Supertramp?
    coldplay
    Oh god yes.

    Man sits there moping around to "Yellow" while wife is at the club working on her backhand.
    The Smiths had a bit more edge to them... but I still think they are Cuckold Rock
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,775
    tlg86 said:
    78rpm? Don't you find it crackles?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Why do we need continuous deterrent anyway, nowadays? The sailing schedules are secret and the threat that one may be out there, or could quickly set sail, should be more than enough.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,708
    Andy_JS said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Had begun to wonder if the robust policing in the USA had changed in any way for the better over the last 50 years.

    The problem with the American police is that they seem more like a military force than a civilian one, and that annoys a lot of people when they encounter them.
    The combination of that with strong police unions makes it very hard to reform.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,264

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:
    But don't we still have to fork out for this fund anyway if the transition period is extended, and all the stuff with Cummings is just a Remainer plot to ensure that happens? (I think I'm following this correctly.)
    It's part of the next EU budget which doesn't include the UK. I assume that if the UK extends then an interim bill for the benefit of Single Market access will be thrashed out - hence the 30 June deadline as these things can't be sorted out between 11pm and midnight on 31 December.
    My prediction -

    A deal with phase1 starting 1 Jan 2021. End of FM. Fee for 1 years continued frictionless access to the SM.

    Target date 31 Dec 2021 to agree phase2. The trade deal.

    An extension without an extension. The hot populist issue - immigration - defused.

    The trade deal ends up as close alignment - soft Brexit - possibly after further delay (depending on pandemic and extent of economic and financial crisis).
    If the EU were to accept that, there are 27 other countries that would think, hang on, UK are getting a better deal than we are.
    The fee would need to be enough to address that.
    £350m a week?
    If the EU really wanted to stir (innocent face), how about £300m a week? After all, that would be cheaper than Boris told everyone full membership was...
    If we gave them the aircraft carrier, most of the spending would be in our past. But saving them from an awful lot of spending in their future.

    I would throw in Trident for the same reasons if I thought the EU would be daft enough to want it.
    ... but smart enough not to use it.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036

    My source in the financial services sector (OK, my nephew) reckons that some companies in the sector aren't looking at reopening offices until next year. And even then, attendance will be optional. Providers of food and drink in the City and Docklands might as well give up now.

    We're working on the assumption of at least one spike at the time of normal flu season, so we're prepped for working at home until February/March time, absent a vaccine.

    There's no way a staggered working day works for us, especially as most of us commute on the train/tram where service is going to be reduced to 20% capacity.
    Meanwhile we are making tentative steps to reopen a couple of offices in July. Not mine yet. But with limitations on who can go in and why. Lime you, I commute by train, so I can't see myself putting in an appearance any time soon.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675
    Senior public health officials have made a last-minute plea for ministers to scrap Monday’s easing of the coronavirus lockdown in England, warning the country is unprepared to deal with any surge in infection and that public resolve to take steps to limit transmisson has been eroded.

    The Association of Directors of Public Health (ADPH) said new rules, including allowing groups of up to six people to meet outdoors and in private gardens, were “not supported by the science” and that pictures of crowded beaches and beauty spots over the weekend showed “the public is not keeping to social distancing as it was”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/31/health-officials-make-last-minute-plea-to-stop-lockdown-easing-happy-monday?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    DougSeal said:
    But don't we still have to fork out for this fund anyway if the transition period is extended, and all the stuff with Cummings is just a Remainer plot to ensure that happens? (I think I'm following this correctly.)
    It's part of the next EU budget which doesn't include the UK. I assume that if the UK extends then an interim bill for the benefit of Single Market access will be thrashed out - hence the 30 June deadline as these things can't be sorted out between 11pm and midnight on 31 December.
    The UK will not extend the transistion and the 1st July looks near odds on for the end of negotiations and UK move to WTO

    Barnier still does not seem to understand the transition extension has been legislated against by HMG and the WDA requires in EU law for an extension to be agreed on or before 30th June

    We all need to hope that post the 1st July Barnier will realise he has run out of time and will then address the consequencies
    Barnier definitely knows that; if you know it he knows it.

    No one seems to understand; the EU has set out its stall and that is that ex-members don't get the benefits of existing ones and they certainly don't get preferential access without some commitments. Now you and I can argue about the definition of existing benefits and preferential access and LPF arrangements but the EU is a rules based organisation and what they've offered is is what will be given to the UK.

    The UK is an adolescent based organisation that thinks that intermittently weeping or slamming doors will somehow get it what it wants.

    It won't.
    No weeping, no slamming of doors, just not being dictated to on tax rates, state subsidies, and laws ruled by the ECJ

    I voted remain but since have supported brexit. I regret TM deal was not passed but we are now in a position, especially post covid, that we will be free to act to mitigate the economic damage and do it on our own terms

    Interesting todays poll sees a move to leave and once it becomes clear the EU want 24 billion to keep us in a 2 year transition, and that we become responsible for contributions to Brussels to save the eurozone, that poll is likely to increase substantially
    The idea that we’ll be able to fix the damage from COVID all by ourselves is laughable. There’s never been a better time to be part of a larger bloc.
    Not with the EU economic armageddon
    Why? If theid crist and in general aren't strengthened by Brexit and its influence in Europe will be at its lowest point in centuries.
    Yes yes yes, fascinating.

    Your analysis of the European situation would be more impactful if you hadn't just confirmed that you misunderstand the most basic facts about the EU.

    eg The EU frugals don't want any covid grants, they only want loans. Instead the EU has proposed to do loans AND grants, so the frugals are mightily pissed off.

    https://twitter.com/Jimbo0o0/status/1265551412651573249?s=20

    There, that's your first lesson
    So you still aren't very articulate - its is twenty past five I suppose so its a downward slope from here - there are 27 different voices in the EU, they may all be coming from different positions and with a different shopping list but they will compromise to keep the project going. Thats the thing you don't seem to understand that people can have a larger understanding of the things that affect them.

    Do you actually know any Europeans on a personal or a professional level? If you do maybe ask them whether they would support flouncing out of the EU over supporting the poorer countries and essentially tear up the project and their trading relationships.

    I get the impression your quite tight - in both meanings of the word.
    I get the impression you are an embittered Remoaner who hasn't had sex in several years.

    You all sound the same: you all have that distinctive, reedy, effeminately pompous tone of voice: simultaneously shrill, strident, epicene, and petulant, and typically allied to a bizarre lack of fundamental knowledge, as here.

    I suspect you personally have weirdly shrivelled genitals, giving the appearance of small pieces of coal, like the later Habsburgs.

    While we are making sweeping assumptions... earlier today I heard The Lightning Seeds on the radio, and for some reason thought "I bet men who like this band get cheated on by their girlfriends"
    Cuckold Rock - probably a whole genre here if one cares to explores it.

    Supertramp?
    Cuckold Rock, very good!

    Coldplay, as someone else said, or is that more Boffin Rock?


    To be cuckolded you need a gf in the first place. So that rules out fans of Prog Rock.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    My source in the financial services sector (OK, my nephew) reckons that some companies in the sector aren't looking at reopening offices until next year. And even then, attendance will be optional. Providers of food and drink in the City and Docklands might as well give up now.

    The Square Mile will never be the same. Feel a bit sad about this despite my dim view of it. Some of the best times of my life came with that 3rd bottle in some little courtyard as late afternoon turned to early evening.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Senior public health officials have made a last-minute plea for ministers to scrap Monday’s easing of the coronavirus lockdown in England, warning the country is unprepared to deal with any surge in infection and that public resolve to take steps to limit transmisson has been eroded.

    The Association of Directors of Public Health (ADPH) said new rules, including allowing groups of up to six people to meet outdoors and in private gardens, were “not supported by the science” and that pictures of crowded beaches and beauty spots over the weekend showed “the public is not keeping to social distancing as it was”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/31/health-officials-make-last-minute-plea-to-stop-lockdown-easing-happy-monday?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    What do you think is the right approach now?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    DougSeal said:
    But don't we still have to fork out for this fund anyway if the transition period is extended, and all the stuff with Cummings is just a Remainer plot to ensure that happens? (I think I'm following this correctly.)
    It's part of the next EU budget which doesn't include the UK. I assume that if the UK extends then an interim bill for the benefit of Single Market access will be thrashed out - hence the 30 June deadline as these things can't be sorted out between 11pm and midnight on 31 December.
    The UK will not extend the transistion and the 1st July looks near odds on for the end of negotiations and UK move to WTO

    Barnier still does not seem to understand the transition extension has been legislated against by HMG and the WDA requires in EU law for an extension to be agreed on or before 30th June

    We all need to hope that post the 1st July Barnier will realise he has run out of time and will then address the consequencies
    Barnier definitely knows that; if you know it he knows it.

    No one seems to understand; the EU has set out its stall and that is that ex-members don't get the benefits of existing ones and they certainly don't get preferential access without some commitments. Now you and I can argue about the definition of existing benefits and preferential access and LPF arrangements but the EU is a rules based organisation and what they've offered is is what will be given to the UK.

    The UK is an adolescent based organisation that thinks that intermittently weeping or slamming doors will somehow get it what it wants.

    It won't.
    No weeping, no slamming of doors, just not being dictated to on tax rates, state subsidies, and laws ruled by the ECJ

    I voted remain but since have supported brexit. I regret TM deal was not passed but we are now in a position, especially post covid, that we will be free to act to mitigate the economic damage and do it on our own terms

    Interesting todays poll sees a move to leave and once it becomes clear the EU want 24 billion to keep us in a 2 year transition, and that we become responsible for contributions to Brussels to save the eurozone, that poll is likely to increase substantially
    The idea that we’ll be able to fix the damage from COVID all by ourselves is laughable. There’s never been a better time to be part of a larger bloc.
    Not with the EU economic armageddon
    Why? If theid crist and in general aren't strengthened by Brexit and its influence in Europe will be at its lowest point in centuries.
    Yes yes yes, fascinating.

    Your analysis of the European situation would be more impactful if you hadn't just confirmed that you misunderstand the most basic facts about the EU.

    eg The EU frugals don't want any covid grants, they only want loans. Instead the EU has proposed to do loans AND grants, so the frugals are mightily pissed off.

    https://twitter.com/Jimbo0o0/status/1265551412651573249?s=20

    There, that's your first lesson
    So you still aren't very articulate - its is twenty past five I suppose so its a downward slope from here - there are 27 different voices in the EU, they may all be coming from different positions and with a different shopping list but they will compromise to keep the project going. Thats the thing you don't seem to understand that people can have a larger understanding of the things that affect them.

    Do you actually know any Europeans on a personal or a professional level? If you do maybe ask them whether they would support flouncing out of the EU over supporting the poorer countries and essentially tear up the project and their trading relationships.

    I get the impression your quite tight - in both meanings of the word.
    I get the impression you are an embittered Remoaner who hasn't had sex in several years.

    You all sound the same: you all have that distinctive, reedy, effeminately pompous tone of voice: simultaneously shrill, strident, epicene, and petulant, and typically allied to a bizarre lack of fundamental knowledge, as here.

    I suspect you personally have weirdly shrivelled genitals, giving the appearance of small pieces of coal, like the later Habsburgs.

    While we are making sweeping assumptions... earlier today I heard The Lightning Seeds on the radio, and for some reason thought "I bet men who like this band get cheated on by their girlfriends"
    Cuckold Rock - probably a whole genre here if one cares to explores it.

    Supertramp?
    Cuckold Rock, very good!

    Coldplay, as someone else said, or is that more Boffin Rock?
    Swot Rock.

    But back to Trump v BLM culture war. No doubt where EYE stand and this one says it the best -

    https://youtu.be/M7ykxpGc8aE


  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370

    My source in the financial services sector (OK, my nephew) reckons that some companies in the sector aren't looking at reopening offices until next year. And even then, attendance will be optional. Providers of food and drink in the City and Docklands might as well give up now.

    We're working on the assumption of at least one spike at the time of normal flu season, so we're prepped for working at home until February/March time, absent a vaccine.

    There's no way a staggered working day works for us, especially as most of us commute on the train/tram where service is going to be reduced to 20% capacity.
    Same here - the reasoning is, why do we need to go in? A few people might need to be physically present every now and then...

    In the longer run, yes, the issues about cross-pollination of ideas, meeting other groups, careers etc may have some effect. But in the 6 month range? No.

    The only really issue is some people being sick of working from home.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675
    isam said:

    Senior public health officials have made a last-minute plea for ministers to scrap Monday’s easing of the coronavirus lockdown in England, warning the country is unprepared to deal with any surge in infection and that public resolve to take steps to limit transmisson has been eroded.

    The Association of Directors of Public Health (ADPH) said new rules, including allowing groups of up to six people to meet outdoors and in private gardens, were “not supported by the science” and that pictures of crowded beaches and beauty spots over the weekend showed “the public is not keeping to social distancing as it was”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/31/health-officials-make-last-minute-plea-to-stop-lockdown-easing-happy-monday?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    What do you think is the right approach now?
    Stay at home as much as possible until we get a decent track and trace system in place with R being well below one, and the incident rate is a lot fewer than 8k per day is a good place to start.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    DougSeal said:
    But don't we still have to fork out for this fund anyway if the transition period is extended, and all the stuff with Cummings is just a Remainer plot to ensure that happens? (I think I'm following this correctly.)
    It's part of the next EU budget which doesn't include the UK. I assume that if the UK extends then an interim bill for the benefit of Single Market access will be thrashed out - hence the 30 June deadline as these things can't be sorted out between 11pm and midnight on 31 December.
    The UK will not extend the transistion and the 1st July looks near odds on for the end of negotiations and UK move to WTO

    Barnier still does not seem to understand the transition extension has been legislated against by HMG and the WDA requires in EU law for an extension to be agreed on or before 30th June

    We all need to hope that post the 1st July Barnier will realise he has run out of time and will then address the consequencies
    Barnier definitely knows that; if you know it he knows it.

    No one seems to understand; the EU has set out its stall and that is that ex-members don't get the benefits of existing ones and they certainly don't get preferential access without some commitments. Now you and I can argue about the definition of existing benefits and preferential access and LPF arrangements but the EU is a rules based organisation and what they've offered is is what will be given to the UK.

    The UK is an adolescent based organisation that thinks that intermittently weeping or slamming doors will somehow get it what it wants.

    It won't.
    No weeping, no slamming of doors, just not being dictated to on tax rates, state subsidies, and laws ruled by the ECJ

    I voted remain but since have supported brexit. I regret TM deal was not passed but we are now in a position, especially post covid, that we will be free to act to mitigate the economic damage and do it on our own terms

    Interesting todays poll sees a move to leave and once it becomes clear the EU want 24 billion to keep us in a 2 year transition, and that we become responsible for contributions to Brussels to save the eurozone, that poll is likely to increase substantially
    The idea that we’ll be able to fix the damage from COVID all by ourselves is laughable. There’s never been a better time to be part of a larger bloc.
    Not with the EU economic armageddon
    Why? If theid crist and in general aren't strengthened by Brexit and its influence in Europe will be at its lowest point in centuries.
    Yes yes yes, fascinating.

    Your analysis of the European situation would be more impactful if you hadn't just confirmed that you misunderstand the most basic facts about the EU.

    eg The EU frugals don't want any covid grants, they only want loans. Instead the EU has proposed to do loans AND grants, so the frugals are mightily pissed off.

    https://twitter.com/Jimbo0o0/status/1265551412651573249?s=20

    There, that's your first lesson
    So you still aren't very articulate - its is twenty past five I suppose so its a downward slope from here - there are 27 different voices in the EU, they may all be coming from different positions and with a different shopping list but they will compromise to keep the project going. Thats the thing you don't seem to understand that people can have a larger understanding of the things that affect them.

    Do you actually know any Europeans on a personal or a professional level? If you do maybe ask them whether they would support flouncing out of the EU over supporting the poorer countries and essentially tear up the project and their trading relationships.

    I get the impression your quite tight - in both meanings of the word.
    I get the impression you are an embittered Remoaner who hasn't had sex in several years.

    You all sound the same: you all have that distinctive, reedy, effeminately pompous tone of voice: simultaneously shrill, strident, epicene, and petulant, and typically allied to a bizarre lack of fundamental knowledge, as here.

    I suspect you personally have weirdly shrivelled genitals, giving the appearance of small pieces of coal, like the later Habsburgs.

    While we are making sweeping assumptions... earlier today I heard The Lightning Seeds on the radio, and for some reason thought "I bet men who like this band get cheated on by their girlfriends"
    Cuckold Rock - probably a whole genre here if one cares to explores it.

    Supertramp?
    Cuckold Rock, very good!

    Coldplay, as someone else said, or is that more Boffin Rock?


    To be cuckolded you need a gf in the first place. So that rules out fans of Prog Rock.
    They're always into swords and sorcery too. And The Hobbit.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675
    edited May 2020

    My source in the financial services sector (OK, my nephew) reckons that some companies in the sector aren't looking at reopening offices until next year. And even then, attendance will be optional. Providers of food and drink in the City and Docklands might as well give up now.

    We're working on the assumption of at least one spike at the time of normal flu season, so we're prepped for working at home until February/March time, absent a vaccine.

    There's no way a staggered working day works for us, especially as most of us commute on the train/tram where service is going to be reduced to 20% capacity.
    Same here - the reasoning is, why do we need to go in? A few people might need to be physically present every now and then...

    In the longer run, yes, the issues about cross-pollination of ideas, meeting other groups, careers etc may have some effect. But in the 6 month range? No.

    The only really issue is some people being sick of working from home.
    The schools thing is a real issue for a lot of people, why send your kids back for six weeks?

    Having kids at home is a distraction, and people not pressing mute on calls are my biggest barriers to working at home.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036

    My source in the financial services sector (OK, my nephew) reckons that some companies in the sector aren't looking at reopening offices until next year. And even then, attendance will be optional. Providers of food and drink in the City and Docklands might as well give up now.

    We're working on the assumption of at least one spike at the time of normal flu season, so we're prepped for working at home until February/March time, absent a vaccine.

    There's no way a staggered working day works for us, especially as most of us commute on the train/tram where service is going to be reduced to 20% capacity.
    Same here - the reasoning is, why do we need to go in? A few people might need to be physically present every now and then...

    In the longer run, yes, the issues about cross-pollination of ideas, meeting other groups, careers etc may have some effect. But in the 6 month range? No.

    The only really issue is some people being sick of working from home.
    I've got a pile of receipts in my locker that I've not put through the expenses system yet. Only a couple of taxi rides and some coffees, so not worth risking infection over!
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,240

    isam said:

    Senior public health officials have made a last-minute plea for ministers to scrap Monday’s easing of the coronavirus lockdown in England, warning the country is unprepared to deal with any surge in infection and that public resolve to take steps to limit transmisson has been eroded.

    The Association of Directors of Public Health (ADPH) said new rules, including allowing groups of up to six people to meet outdoors and in private gardens, were “not supported by the science” and that pictures of crowded beaches and beauty spots over the weekend showed “the public is not keeping to social distancing as it was”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/31/health-officials-make-last-minute-plea-to-stop-lockdown-easing-happy-monday?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    What do you think is the right approach now?
    Stay at home as much as possible until we get a decent track and trace system in place with R being well below one, and the incident rate is a lot fewer than 8k per day is a good place to start.
    This round of relaxation might be water under the bridge, but watch the infection numbers like a hawk for the next couple of weeks and jam the brakes back on if there's any sort of doubt.

    But more importantly, stick to the plan from here and listen when the boffins say "no, it's not safe enough yet".
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898

    My source in the financial services sector (OK, my nephew) reckons that some companies in the sector aren't looking at reopening offices until next year. And even then, attendance will be optional. Providers of food and drink in the City and Docklands might as well give up now.

    We're working on the assumption of at least one spike at the time of normal flu season, so we're prepped for working at home until February/March time, absent a vaccine.

    There's no way a staggered working day works for us, especially as most of us commute on the train/tram where service is going to be reduced to 20% capacity.
    Meanwhile we are making tentative steps to reopen a couple of offices in July. Not mine yet. But with limitations on who can go in and why. Lime you, I commute by train, so I can't see myself putting in an appearance any time soon.
    Same for me and Mrs Stodge. The clients with whom I'm been working on new office configurations have got to 25-30% capacity maximum. Those in multi-occupancy buildings with access only by lift are at 10% maximum.

    Anecdotal evidence also suggests most offices won't even get to that number - the overwhelming majority of office-based workers have adapted to WAH and frankly rather like it.

    As you say, support services in areas of high office accommodation are going to find life very difficult - Pret are seeking rent reductions but it's not just about food and drink.

    I've only encountered one client who is thinking in a different way - they think commercial property prices will collapse and they'll be able to snap up suites of accommodation large enough to enable more of their workers to return.

    My firm will, I suspect, close the office and rent meeting/conference space as and when necessary. There's going to be plenty of that available as well.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    DougSeal said:
    But don't we still have to fork out for this fund anyway if the transition period is extended, and all the stuff with Cummings is just a Remainer plot to ensure that happens? (I think I'm following this correctly.)
    It's part of the next EU budget which doesn't include the UK. I assume that if the UK extends then an interim bill for the benefit of Single Market access will be thrashed out - hence the 30 June deadline as these things can't be sorted out between 11pm and midnight on 31 December.
    The UK will not extend the transistion and the 1st July looks near odds on for the end of negotiations and UK move to WTO

    Barnier still does not seem to understand the transition extension has been legislated against by HMG and the WDA requires in EU law for an extension to be agreed on or before 30th June

    We all need to hope that post the 1st July Barnier will realise he has run out of time and will then address the consequencies
    Barnier definitely knows that; if you know it he knows it.

    No one seems to understand; the EU has set out its stall and that is that ex-members don't get the benefits of existing ones and they certainly don't get preferential access without some commitments. Now you and I can argue about the definition of existing benefits and preferential access and LPF arrangements but the EU is a rules based organisation and what they've offered is is what will be given to the UK.

    The UK is an adolescent based organisation that thinks that intermittently weeping or slamming doors will somehow get it what it wants.

    It won't.
    No weeping, no slamming of doors, just not being dictated to on tax rates, state subsidies, and laws ruled by the ECJ

    I voted remain but since have supported brexit. I regret TM deal was not passed but we are now in a position, especially post covid, that we will be free to act to mitigate the economic damage and do it on our own terms

    Interesting todays poll sees a move to leave and once it becomes clear the EU want 24 billion to keep us in a 2 year transition, and that we become responsible for contributions to Brussels to save the eurozone, that poll is likely to increase substantially
    The idea that we’ll be able to fix the damage from COVID all by ourselves is laughable. There’s never been a better time to be part of a larger bloc.
    Not with the EU economic armageddon
    Why? If theid crist and in general aren't strengthened by Brexit and its influence in Europe will be at its lowest point in centuries.
    Yes yes yes, fascinating.

    Your analysis of the European situation would be more impactful if you hadn't just confirmed that you misunderstand the most basic facts about the EU.

    eg The EU frugals don't want any covid grants, they only want loans. Instead the EU has proposed to do loans AND grants, so the frugals are mightily pissed off.

    https://twitter.com/Jimbo0o0/status/1265551412651573249?s=20

    There, that's your first lesson
    So you still aren't very articulate - its is twenty past five I suppose so its a downward slope from here - there are 27 different voices in the EU, they may all be coming from different positions and with a different shopping list but they will compromise to keep the project going. Thats the thing you don't seem to understand that people can have a larger understanding of the things that affect them.

    Do you actually know any Europeans on a personal or a professional level? If you do maybe ask them whether they would support flouncing out of the EU over supporting the poorer countries and essentially tear up the project and their trading relationships.

    I get the impression your quite tight - in both meanings of the word.
    I get the impression you are an embittered Remoaner who hasn't had sex in several years.

    You all sound the same: you all have that distinctive, reedy, effeminately pompous tone of voice: simultaneously shrill, strident, epicene, and petulant, and typically allied to a bizarre lack of fundamental knowledge, as here.

    I suspect you personally have weirdly shrivelled genitals, giving the appearance of small pieces of coal, like the later Habsburgs.

    While we are making sweeping assumptions... earlier today I heard The Lightning Seeds on the radio, and for some reason thought "I bet men who like this band get cheated on by their girlfriends"
    Cuckold Rock - probably a whole genre here if one cares to explores it.

    Supertramp?
    coldplay
    Oh god yes.

    Man sits there moping around to "Yellow" while wife is at the club working on her backhand.
    The Smiths had a bit more edge to them... but I still think they are Cuckold Rock
    But they are Davey Cameron's favourite band.

    So what are you saying?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036

    My source in the financial services sector (OK, my nephew) reckons that some companies in the sector aren't looking at reopening offices until next year. And even then, attendance will be optional. Providers of food and drink in the City and Docklands might as well give up now.

    We're working on the assumption of at least one spike at the time of normal flu season, so we're prepped for working at home until February/March time, absent a vaccine.

    There's no way a staggered working day works for us, especially as most of us commute on the train/tram where service is going to be reduced to 20% capacity.
    Same here - the reasoning is, why do we need to go in? A few people might need to be physically present every now and then...

    In the longer run, yes, the issues about cross-pollination of ideas, meeting other groups, careers etc may have some effect. But in the 6 month range? No.

    The only really issue is some people being sick of working from home.
    The schools thing is a real issue for a lot of people, why send your kids back for six weeks?

    Having kids at home is a distraction, and people not pressing mute on calls are my biggest barriers to working at home.
    A conference call wouldn't be a conference call without at least one barking dog and a squawking child in the background.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,264
    kinabalu said:

    My source in the financial services sector (OK, my nephew) reckons that some companies in the sector aren't looking at reopening offices until next year. And even then, attendance will be optional. Providers of food and drink in the City and Docklands might as well give up now.

    The Square Mile will never be the same. Feel a bit sad about this despite my dim view of it. Some of the best times of my life came with that 3rd bottle in some little courtyard as late afternoon turned to early evening.
    ... and then some clever dick shows up and says "you should have been in the office. Base Rate hit 15% this afternoon."
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,600
    Good news that swimming polls may be able to open in July, according to the Sunday Times.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,217

    Just looking the tw@tter machine of people advocating for supporting the protests, a commonly shared link is to this...

    https://www.papermag.com/where-to-donate-protests-minneapolis-2646128317.html

    Including funds such as,

    The Black Visions Collective Movement and Legal Fund, a Black, trans and queer-led organization, is helping lead the protests and advocating to defund the police in Minnesota.

    Reclaim the Block, a Minnesota org that lobbies for defunding the police and re-routing funds to affordable housing, health, violence prevention, civil right and renter protections.

    Defund the police will achieve what? Lower crime? What about better fund the police to be properly trained?

    And paying the bail for "protesters". So these people are happy to bail people who you don't know what they were arrested for, and more than likely for looting and violence.

    There's a lot of evidence the Russians played a role in promoting the original "Black Lives Matter" theme before the 2016 elections. Their view is that by promoting divisions inside America, they make America weaker.

    They are aided and abetted in this by an American President who does not regard himself as President of the whole country.

    Sadly, the Democrats have put up an elderly and mentally infirm candidate, with no obvious ability to bring the country back together again.

    Perhaps it's time for the US to split into three countries: Resourcia which would contain the inner states running down to the Gulf Coast and the South East, and which would be rich in natural resourcecs. Cascadia which would be the West Coast and would contain Silicon Valley and Seattle. And Yankee, which would be North Carolina or Virginia and up, crossing West into the Great Lakes and bringing in Illinois.

    It seems that this might solve a lot of problems.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,929
    stodge said:

    My source in the financial services sector (OK, my nephew) reckons that some companies in the sector aren't looking at reopening offices until next year. And even then, attendance will be optional. Providers of food and drink in the City and Docklands might as well give up now.

    We're working on the assumption of at least one spike at the time of normal flu season, so we're prepped for working at home until February/March time, absent a vaccine.

    There's no way a staggered working day works for us, especially as most of us commute on the train/tram where service is going to be reduced to 20% capacity.
    Meanwhile we are making tentative steps to reopen a couple of offices in July. Not mine yet. But with limitations on who can go in and why. Lime you, I commute by train, so I can't see myself putting in an appearance any time soon.
    Same for me and Mrs Stodge. The clients with whom I'm been working on new office configurations have got to 25-30% capacity maximum. Those in multi-occupancy buildings with access only by lift are at 10% maximum.

    Anecdotal evidence also suggests most offices won't even get to that number - the overwhelming majority of office-based workers have adapted to WAH and frankly rather like it.

    As you say, support services in areas of high office accommodation are going to find life very difficult - Pret are seeking rent reductions but it's not just about food and drink.

    I've only encountered one client who is thinking in a different way - they think commercial property prices will collapse and they'll be able to snap up suites of accommodation large enough to enable more of their workers to return.

    My firm will, I suspect, close the office and rent meeting/conference space as and when necessary. There's going to be plenty of that available as well.

    Contrariwise, a lot of firms have spent the last decade downsizing by hotdesking and that will surely be a casualty of the coronavirus. That, together with social distancing, might mean the same office space is needed in order to house fewer people. Though if I can't get a Pret smoked salmon sandwich, is it worth going in?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,600
    Toby Young at Lockdown Sceptics:

    "I cannot be alone in noticing the huge gulf between the sympathetic coverage given to the Black Lives Matter protests in the mainstream media and the almost universally hostile coverage of the anti-lockdown protests. Celebrities who were encouraging everyone to remain in their homes until last week are now rushing out to join the protests, including Emily Ratajkowski, Jaz Sinclair, Paris Jackson and Billie Eilish.

    https://lockdownsceptics.org
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,816
    Andy_JS said:

    Good news that swimming polls may be able to open in July, according to the Sunday Times.

    Good, always wanted to know what is the nation's favourite stroke.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    isam said:

    Senior public health officials have made a last-minute plea for ministers to scrap Monday’s easing of the coronavirus lockdown in England, warning the country is unprepared to deal with any surge in infection and that public resolve to take steps to limit transmisson has been eroded.

    The Association of Directors of Public Health (ADPH) said new rules, including allowing groups of up to six people to meet outdoors and in private gardens, were “not supported by the science” and that pictures of crowded beaches and beauty spots over the weekend showed “the public is not keeping to social distancing as it was”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/31/health-officials-make-last-minute-plea-to-stop-lockdown-easing-happy-monday?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    What do you think is the right approach now?
    Stay at home as much as possible until we get a decent track and trace system in place with R being well below one, and the incident rate is a lot fewer than 8k per day is a good place to start.
    It's too late for trying to wind back the clock. People will make their own decisions about what they do based on what they perceive the level of risk to be.

    Nobody who's reasonably young, reasonably fit and not scared witless by the virus is going to "stay at home as much as possible," especially when the weather is as good as this. My own observations suggest that most (though not all) people are still observing the 2m rule when they're out and about, and I dare say that most people who are now out and about regularly would also take a different attitude to seeing elderly or vulnerable relatives (I've not visited or been visited by either parent since March,) but the SS Stay-at-Home has well and truly sailed. It's over the horizon and gone.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533

    My source in the financial services sector (OK, my nephew) reckons that some companies in the sector aren't looking at reopening offices until next year. And even then, attendance will be optional. Providers of food and drink in the City and Docklands might as well give up now.

    We're working on the assumption of at least one spike at the time of normal flu season, so we're prepped for working at home until February/March time, absent a vaccine.

    There's no way a staggered working day works for us, especially as most of us commute on the train/tram where service is going to be reduced to 20% capacity.
    Same here - the reasoning is, why do we need to go in? A few people might need to be physically present every now and then...

    In the longer run, yes, the issues about cross-pollination of ideas, meeting other groups, careers etc may have some effect. But in the 6 month range? No.

    The only really issue is some people being sick of working from home.
    Same here. We have a few people who miss office socialisation but most people simply miss being able to go out in the evening and at weekends and see distinct attractions in not going back to commuting - that's a big factor in Surrey as many people can't afford to live near work. As social outings get easier, the pressure of working from home will dwindle. Our current position (with an office with 80 staff) is that we're continuing at home for the forseeable future.

    We do appreciate that non-office staff are in a totally different position. We're lucky.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898


    Same here - the reasoning is, why do we need to go in? A few people might need to be physically present every now and then...

    In the longer run, yes, the issues about cross-pollination of ideas, meeting other groups, careers etc may have some effect. But in the 6 month range? No.

    The only really issue is some people being sick of working from home.

    The problem with WAH is you need to create the same distractions that are present in every office - conversations about work or more often not about work, the gossip, the banter, the social aspects of the working experience.

    Many companies have tried to replicate that via "virtual cuppas" or the "virtual corridor" but you can't structure an unstructured activity and hope it has the same effect. Other companies think because their employees are at home they can and should work harder and longer.

    WAH doesn't work for everyone - I have a colleague who has four school aged daughters. He is desperate to get back to the office.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,217
    FF43 said:

    DougSeal said:
    Having struggled for four years to come up with a single concrete benefit to Brexit, the fact rhe EU can start making sensible decisions again can perhaps be chalked up as such. It is a matter of opinion whether the UK not being part of that fund is also a benefit.

    On Deal/No Deal; Extension/No Extension. If the UK government is firm on not negotiating past December, and I think it is, it will have to accept whatever is on the table at that point or never have a deal with the EU on anything. No point blaming Michel Barnier, Remoaners etc for the consequences of their choices - although Leavers inevitably do.
    This has always been a benefit of Brexit.

    The reality is that the creation of the Eurozone f*cked the EU. Not f*cked it economically, but f*cked it because it created a pseudo-country inside an existing organisation, but gave that pseudo-country very few levers of power because the Eurozone was not the EU.

    Us leaving makes it easier to change that, but don't forget there are still many non-EZ countries inside the EU.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,929

    My source in the financial services sector (OK, my nephew) reckons that some companies in the sector aren't looking at reopening offices until next year. And even then, attendance will be optional. Providers of food and drink in the City and Docklands might as well give up now.

    We're working on the assumption of at least one spike at the time of normal flu season, so we're prepped for working at home until February/March time, absent a vaccine.

    There's no way a staggered working day works for us, especially as most of us commute on the train/tram where service is going to be reduced to 20% capacity.
    Same here - the reasoning is, why do we need to go in? A few people might need to be physically present every now and then...

    In the longer run, yes, the issues about cross-pollination of ideas, meeting other groups, careers etc may have some effect. But in the 6 month range? No.

    The only really issue is some people being sick of working from home.
    The schools thing is a real issue for a lot of people, why send your kids back for six weeks?

    Having kids at home is a distraction, and people not pressing mute on calls are my biggest barriers to working at home.
    A conference call wouldn't be a conference call without at least one barking dog and a squawking child in the background.
    There may be a market for cheap PTT (push to talk) microphones; make mute the default! My firm's conf call rules encourage us to introduce children and pets if they wander into shot, as well as take time out to feed and water them.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    Watching Look North. Plenty of dickheads out and about in Wharfedale this weekend.
This discussion has been closed.