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  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,240

    I'm absolutely gutted for my daughter. Just received an email from her school saying that next week's reopening has been cancelled on the advice of the County Council. Attached was a letter from the County Council to the school advising all schools in the County remain closed.

    She's been really struggling last couple of weeks with her mental health, missing her friends and has been counting down the days, like to Christmas, to being able to see her friends again.

    The reopening had been confirmed and everything. To make matters worse and what makes me angry is they'd come up with plans on how the school would be different and had advised us to talk to her about how the school would be different to what she is used to - which we had done.

    To say there was no schooling is one thing. To promise she can come back, talk to her and get her excited about it, then rip it away from her once more. I'm furious about this.

    I'm sorry to hear that. I've got one in Year 6 who is pretty gutted that she won't get to do SATs (yes, I know...) and her transition to secondary is bound to be a mess. It's a shame, because both of mine are missing school massively.

    But the bottom line is that it was easy to talk about reopening schools, much harder to do it in a way that was reliably reasonably safe and compatible with (for example) insurance. (The first version of the guidance was a mess; it had some stuff that was cut-and-pasted from subjects studied in OECD countries). June 1 was always optimistic, and one of the worst things this government is doing is saying X will re-open REALLY SOON when REALLY SOON is unrealistic. Better to come up with a realistic plan for Quite Soon and some sensible ideas for the interim.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    I guess that's one way to take the heat off Dom. Completely fuck something else up the same way they did for testing, PPE and quarantine.

    Boris promised "World beating" at the last PMQs. Astonishing claim to make I thought at the time given how good we know the South Korean system is.
    It seemed like such an idiotic claim to make. We're building something from scratch when we really just need to copy some other system that already works. This is another failure for Matt Hancock. That makes quite a few now. The sad part is that Boris doesn't have the political capital to sack him any more. Not least because he'll struggle to recruit the correct replacement (Hunt) without giving up Dom.
    In fairness to Hancock, why was he given this additional responsibility when he already had most work and responsibility during the crisis?

    It should have gone to Gove, or another minister who could have made it their priority, not something to spend a bit of time on after fire fighting PPE and care homes for most of the day.
    Yes it should have been, but aiui PHE claimed it and so it fell under the DoH. Hancock is too weak to tell the idiots in PHE that they are clueless fucks and that the whole project should be handed over to the private sector under the cabinet office (same as the Nightingale hospitals and Ventilators) with different companies pitching solutions and then the cabinet office/Gove picking the best one.

    Instead the planks from PHE are scared of private sector encroachment in the same way they were for testing so we are where we are.
    I’ve been loathe to criticise agencies, given the scale of the pandemic, but PHE are the group who should have been prepared better than anyone - but clearly weren’t and totally messed up. If Hancock hadn’t announced the 100k testing target for April and said that nothing else mattered, they’d still be processing a few hundred here and there,
    Yes, it was also interesting that all of the negative stuff about not being able to hit the target was coming from them and their sources but the people saying it was definitely possible were from private sector labs and university labs who knew it was possible.

    Luckily my experience with the public sector is limited but from that I know that their immediate reflex action to being asked to do anything is "no". Honestly, if they started firing people who's first answer to every request was "no" then they might actually start getting into some kind of fit state.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117

    I'm absolutely gutted for my daughter. Just received an email from her school saying that next week's reopening has been cancelled on the advice of the County Council. Attached was a letter from the County Council to the school advising all schools in the County remain closed.

    She's been really struggling last couple of weeks with her mental health, missing her friends and has been counting down the days, like to Christmas, to being able to see her friends again.

    The reopening had been confirmed and everything. To make matters worse and what makes me angry is they'd come up with plans on how the school would be different and had advised us to talk to her about how the school would be different to what she is used to - which we had done.

    To say there was no schooling is one thing. To promise she can come back, talk to her and get her excited about it, then rip it away from her once more. I'm furious about this.

    Sorry to hear it, Phil. Commisserations to yourself and your daughter.
    Stop it Peter...he is worse than Cummings...he's using his child to score a political point...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    I’ve got some sympathy with Lancashire over the idea they can’t guarantee health and safety for younger ages, or that the right equipment is in place. To be blunt, I would have tried to get the older year groups back first as a dummy run to iron out any flaws (but then I’m not typical because I thought schools should have stayed open anyway).

    Where I lose all sympathy is that ludicrous claim that this isn’t damaging the children’s education. Yes it bloody well is. Teaching on a screen for 20-30 minutes is no substitute for interacting with them. That’s even less convincing than Cummings’ lies about his travels.

    Someone is playing silly buggers there. Make a decision, even make an unpopular decision, but don’t patronise people or treat them like fools.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    I guess that's one way to take the heat off Dom. Completely fuck something else up the same way they did for testing, PPE and quarantine.

    Boris promised "World beating" at the last PMQs. Astonishing claim to make I thought at the time given how good we know the South Korean system is.
    It seemed like such an idiotic claim to make. We're building something from scratch when we really just need to copy some other system that already works. This is another failure for Matt Hancock. That makes quite a few now. The sad part is that Boris doesn't have the political capital to sack him any more. Not least because he'll struggle to recruit the correct replacement (Hunt) without giving up Dom.
    In fairness to Hancock, why was he given this additional responsibility when he already had most work and responsibility during the crisis?

    It should have gone to Gove, or another minister who could have made it their priority, not something to spend a bit of time on after fire fighting PPE and care homes for most of the day.
    Yes it should have been, but aiui PHE claimed it and so it fell under the DoH. Hancock is too weak to tell the idiots in PHE that they are clueless fucks and that the whole project should be handed over to the private sector under the cabinet office (same as the Nightingale hospitals and Ventilators) with different companies pitching solutions and then the cabinet office/Gove picking the best one.

    Instead the planks from PHE are scared of private sector encroachment in the same way they were for testing so we are where we are.
    I’ve been loathe to criticise agencies, given the scale of the pandemic, but PHE are the group who should have been prepared better than anyone - but clearly weren’t and totally messed up. If Hancock hadn’t announced the 100k testing target for April and said that nothing else mattered, they’d still be processing a few hundred here and there,
    Yes, it was also interesting that all of the negative stuff about not being able to hit the target was coming from them and their sources but the people saying it was definitely possible were from private sector labs and university labs who knew it was possible.

    Luckily my experience with the public sector is limited but from that I know that their immediate reflex action to being asked to do anything is "no". Honestly, if they started firing people who's first answer to every request was "no" then they might actually start getting into some kind of fit state.
    Difficult with no staff.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    I guess that's one way to take the heat off Dom. Completely fuck something else up the same way they did for testing, PPE and quarantine.

    Boris promised "World beating" at the last PMQs. Astonishing claim to make I thought at the time given how good we know the South Korean system is.
    It seemed like such an idiotic claim to make. We're building something from scratch when we really just need to copy some other system that already works. This is another failure for Matt Hancock. That makes quite a few now. The sad part is that Boris doesn't have the political capital to sack him any more. Not least because he'll struggle to recruit the correct replacement (Hunt) without giving up Dom.
    In fairness to Hancock, why was he given this additional responsibility when he already had most work and responsibility during the crisis?

    It should have gone to Gove, or another minister who could have made it their priority, not something to spend a bit of time on after fire fighting PPE and care homes for most of the day.
    Yes it should have been, but aiui PHE claimed it and so it fell under the DoH. Hancock is too weak to tell the idiots in PHE that they are clueless fucks and that the whole project should be handed over to the private sector under the cabinet office (same as the Nightingale hospitals and Ventilators) with different companies pitching solutions and then the cabinet office/Gove picking the best one.

    Instead the planks from PHE are scared of private sector encroachment in the same way they were for testing so we are where we are.
    I’ve been loathe to criticise agencies, given the scale of the pandemic, but PHE are the group who should have been prepared better than anyone - but clearly weren’t and totally messed up. If Hancock hadn’t announced the 100k testing target for April and said that nothing else mattered, they’d still be processing a few hundred here and there,
    Yes, it was also interesting that all of the negative stuff about not being able to hit the target was coming from them and their sources but the people saying it was definitely possible were from private sector labs and university labs who knew it was possible.

    Luckily my experience with the public sector is limited but from that I know that their immediate reflex action to being asked to do anything is "no". Honestly, if they started firing people who's first answer to every request was "no" then they might actually start getting into some kind of fit state.
    Difficult with no staff.
    😅
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,317

    tlg86 said:

    @Philip_Thompson - That doesn’t sound good. Do you know if it’s a blanket ban on the county or specific to your daughter’s school?

    Blanket. Lancashire County Council.
    Really sorry to hear that. It’s hard dealing with a child’s disappointment like that.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    tyson said:

    I'm absolutely gutted for my daughter. Just received an email from her school saying that next week's reopening has been cancelled on the advice of the County Council. Attached was a letter from the County Council to the school advising all schools in the County remain closed.

    She's been really struggling last couple of weeks with her mental health, missing her friends and has been counting down the days, like to Christmas, to being able to see her friends again.

    The reopening had been confirmed and everything. To make matters worse and what makes me angry is they'd come up with plans on how the school would be different and had advised us to talk to her about how the school would be different to what she is used to - which we had done.

    To say there was no schooling is one thing. To promise she can come back, talk to her and get her excited about it, then rip it away from her once more. I'm furious about this.

    Sorry to hear it, Phil. Commisserations to yourself and your daughter.
    Stop it Peter...he is worse than Cummings...he's using his child to score a political point...
    F**k you, what possible political point could I be making? I was venting here.

    Thank you for the nice words from everyone else. Not looking forward to giving her the news tomorrow.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,708
    Takes over mid-term from a female PM who had lost control of the party. Wins a majority against the odds by appealing directly to the people. Shortly afterwards premiership then hits the rocks and never recovers. Is Boris Johnson the new John Major?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    tlg86 said:

    @Philip_Thompson - That doesn’t sound good. Do you know if it’s a blanket ban on the county or specific to your daughter’s school?

    Blanket. Lancashire County Council.
    So that's a Conservative controlled council. Not going to be popular at CCHQ.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    edited May 2020
    You have to wonder if other councils might follow suit. The safety of all children in state schools is ultimately the local authority's responsibility no matter the governance structure.
    Coventry and South Yorkshire are the two I'm tangentially watching (Coworkers and family)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    tyson said:

    I'm absolutely gutted for my daughter. Just received an email from her school saying that next week's reopening has been cancelled on the advice of the County Council. Attached was a letter from the County Council to the school advising all schools in the County remain closed.

    She's been really struggling last couple of weeks with her mental health, missing her friends and has been counting down the days, like to Christmas, to being able to see her friends again.

    The reopening had been confirmed and everything. To make matters worse and what makes me angry is they'd come up with plans on how the school would be different and had advised us to talk to her about how the school would be different to what she is used to - which we had done.

    To say there was no schooling is one thing. To promise she can come back, talk to her and get her excited about it, then rip it away from her once more. I'm furious about this.

    Sorry to hear it, Phil. Commisserations to yourself and your daughter.
    Stop it Peter...he is worse than Cummings...he's using his child to score a political point...
    F**k you, what possible political point could I be making? I was venting here.

    Thank you for the nice words from everyone else. Not looking forward to giving her the news tomorrow.
    Is it a maintained school or an academy chain? If the latter, it might decide to reject the advice (I don’t want to hold out false hope, but it is a point to consider).
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766

    ydoethur said:

    I'm absolutely gutted for my daughter. Just received an email from her school saying that next week's reopening has been cancelled on the advice of the County Council. Attached was a letter from the County Council to the school advising all schools in the County remain closed.

    She's been really struggling last couple of weeks with her mental health, missing her friends and has been counting down the days, like to Christmas, to being able to see her friends again.

    The reopening had been confirmed and everything. To make matters worse and what makes me angry is they'd come up with plans on how the school would be different and had advised us to talk to her about how the school would be different to what she is used to - which we had done.

    To say there was no schooling is one thing. To promise she can come back, talk to her and get her excited about it, then rip it away from her once more. I'm furious about this.

    Very sorry to hear this PhilIp. Did they say why they had given this advice?
    They believe only 3 of the 5 government tests have been met. Don't believe Test & Trace is ready, and consequentially don't believe that there won't be a second peak.

    Taken from the document:

    "Locally, we are currently able to meet the requirements of the first three tests; however, we do not meet the requirements for the final two tests. The test and trace programme is not at a state of readiness to respond to Covid-19 community setting outbreaks in a timely manner, which poses a risk to school environments.

    Furthermore, we are not confident that adjustments to the current measures of the lockdown policy will not risk a second peak of infections locally. Consequently, our advice to schools is to not re-open to more pupils on June 1st, but to continue with their current support systems that are in place. The safety and wellbeing of children, their families, and school staff outweigh the benefits of opening schools of 1st June"
    I don't know, this is really difficult stuff, and I'm sorry for your daughter.

    Personally, I am very keen on prioritising the mental health aspects of all this and on that front this seems a bad decision. The evidence seems to be that children don't die from this (I think Tobes quoted a 1 in 3.5 million chance) nor do they pass it on to the teachers.

    School gate and school run might be another issue. But given that every other house has in my street has had family/friends barbecue in last four days, maybe not so much now.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    I guess that's one way to take the heat off Dom. Completely fuck something else up the same way they did for testing, PPE and quarantine.

    Boris promised "World beating" at the last PMQs. Astonishing claim to make I thought at the time given how good we know the South Korean system is.
    It seemed like such an idiotic claim to make. We're building something from scratch when we really just need to copy some other system that already works. This is another failure for Matt Hancock. That makes quite a few now. The sad part is that Boris doesn't have the political capital to sack him any more. Not least because he'll struggle to recruit the correct replacement (Hunt) without giving up Dom.
    In fairness to Hancock, why was he given this additional responsibility when he already had most work and responsibility during the crisis?

    It should have gone to Gove, or another minister who could have made it their priority, not something to spend a bit of time on after fire fighting PPE and care homes for most of the day.
    Yes it should have been, but aiui PHE claimed it and so it fell under the DoH. Hancock is too weak to tell the idiots in PHE that they are clueless fucks and that the whole project should be handed over to the private sector under the cabinet office (same as the Nightingale hospitals and Ventilators) with different companies pitching solutions and then the cabinet office/Gove picking the best one.

    Instead the planks from PHE are scared of private sector encroachment in the same way they were for testing so we are where we are.
    I’ve been loathe to criticise agencies, given the scale of the pandemic, but PHE are the group who should have been prepared better than anyone - but clearly weren’t and totally messed up. If Hancock hadn’t announced the 100k testing target for April and said that nothing else mattered, they’d still be processing a few hundred here and there,
    Yes, it was also interesting that all of the negative stuff about not being able to hit the target was coming from them and their sources but the people saying it was definitely possible were from private sector labs and university labs who knew it was possible.

    Luckily my experience with the public sector is limited but from that I know that their immediate reflex action to being asked to do anything is "no". Honestly, if they started firing people who's first answer to every request was "no" then they might actually start getting into some kind of fit state.
    Difficult with no staff.
    😅
    In their defence, most parts of the public sector are of course besieged with far more requests to do stuff (not least from their politician 'bosses') and turning everything down at first asking is a useful mechanism to screen out the nonsense and create some sort of hurdle to ration the workload.

    And, as a general rule, most issues are more complex with more competing demands and more conflicting stakeholders than you find in the private sector. The biggest public sector mistakes tend to arise when things are decided too quickly.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    ydoethur said:

    tyson said:

    I'm absolutely gutted for my daughter. Just received an email from her school saying that next week's reopening has been cancelled on the advice of the County Council. Attached was a letter from the County Council to the school advising all schools in the County remain closed.

    She's been really struggling last couple of weeks with her mental health, missing her friends and has been counting down the days, like to Christmas, to being able to see her friends again.

    The reopening had been confirmed and everything. To make matters worse and what makes me angry is they'd come up with plans on how the school would be different and had advised us to talk to her about how the school would be different to what she is used to - which we had done.

    To say there was no schooling is one thing. To promise she can come back, talk to her and get her excited about it, then rip it away from her once more. I'm furious about this.

    Sorry to hear it, Phil. Commisserations to yourself and your daughter.
    Stop it Peter...he is worse than Cummings...he's using his child to score a political point...
    F**k you, what possible political point could I be making? I was venting here.

    Thank you for the nice words from everyone else. Not looking forward to giving her the news tomorrow.
    Is it a maintained school or an academy chain? If the latter, it might decide to reject the advice (I don’t want to hold out false hope, but it is a point to consider).
    Maintained, County school. The email is clear they're following the advice.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    Cyclefree said:

    tlg86 said:

    @Philip_Thompson - That doesn’t sound good. Do you know if it’s a blanket ban on the county or specific to your daughter’s school?

    Blanket. Lancashire County Council.
    Really sorry to hear that. It’s hard dealing with a child’s disappointment like that.
    Cycle...how would you feel if you are teacher in a large BME community facing this issue? The Govt just doesn't know what the risks are. June 1st is arbitrary....
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    ydoethur said:

    tyson said:

    I'm absolutely gutted for my daughter. Just received an email from her school saying that next week's reopening has been cancelled on the advice of the County Council. Attached was a letter from the County Council to the school advising all schools in the County remain closed.

    She's been really struggling last couple of weeks with her mental health, missing her friends and has been counting down the days, like to Christmas, to being able to see her friends again.

    The reopening had been confirmed and everything. To make matters worse and what makes me angry is they'd come up with plans on how the school would be different and had advised us to talk to her about how the school would be different to what she is used to - which we had done.

    To say there was no schooling is one thing. To promise she can come back, talk to her and get her excited about it, then rip it away from her once more. I'm furious about this.

    Sorry to hear it, Phil. Commisserations to yourself and your daughter.
    Stop it Peter...he is worse than Cummings...he's using his child to score a political point...
    F**k you, what possible political point could I be making? I was venting here.

    Thank you for the nice words from everyone else. Not looking forward to giving her the news tomorrow.
    Is it a maintained school or an academy chain? If the latter, it might decide to reject the advice (I don’t want to hold out false hope, but it is a point to consider).
    Can an academy reject the advice ? Safety of the children is ultimately a local authority responsibility, which I presume is the reason given.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    tlg86 said:

    @Philip_Thompson - That doesn’t sound good. Do you know if it’s a blanket ban on the county or specific to your daughter’s school?

    Blanket. Lancashire County Council.
    So that's a Conservative controlled council. Not going to be popular at CCHQ.
    Indeed, I thought that too.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Pulpstar said:

    You have to wonder if other councils might follow suit. The safety of all children in state schools is ultimately the local authority's responsibility no matter the governance structure.
    Coventry and South Yorkshire are the two I'm tangentially watching (Coworkers and family)

    If they are not overruled, it’s possible.

    I have to say if I was concerned about health and safety here I would be pondering staffing ratios. There is a reason why I have been the only teacher from my faculty on site for the last two months and it’s because I’m the only one young enough and fit enough not to require shielding.

    But that letter really got silly at the end. Lancashire is a poor county. How many children have tech to access lessons or a decent space to work in?
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Tim_B said:

    Sandpit said:

    Damn, looks like a scrub. :(

    looks good at 17 to go
    Weather got them in the end. Back on Saturday night for another go.
    Seems like the weather would have been OK ten minutes later, but they couldn't miss their time slot
    Usually they have a ‘launch window’ of a few minutes, when they can delay for a bit if they need to, but this one was an ‘instantaneous window’, where any delay was automatically a scrubbed attempt.

    Apart from the weather everything else looked good, so they’ll be calling this one a dress rehearsal for Saturday!
    If you're just going into orbit and do stuff then you have a launch window, but going to the ISS you have to hit the launch time exactly
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Pulpstar said:

    ydoethur said:

    tyson said:

    I'm absolutely gutted for my daughter. Just received an email from her school saying that next week's reopening has been cancelled on the advice of the County Council. Attached was a letter from the County Council to the school advising all schools in the County remain closed.

    She's been really struggling last couple of weeks with her mental health, missing her friends and has been counting down the days, like to Christmas, to being able to see her friends again.

    The reopening had been confirmed and everything. To make matters worse and what makes me angry is they'd come up with plans on how the school would be different and had advised us to talk to her about how the school would be different to what she is used to - which we had done.

    To say there was no schooling is one thing. To promise she can come back, talk to her and get her excited about it, then rip it away from her once more. I'm furious about this.

    Sorry to hear it, Phil. Commisserations to yourself and your daughter.
    Stop it Peter...he is worse than Cummings...he's using his child to score a political point...
    F**k you, what possible political point could I be making? I was venting here.

    Thank you for the nice words from everyone else. Not looking forward to giving her the news tomorrow.
    Is it a maintained school or an academy chain? If the latter, it might decide to reject the advice (I don’t want to hold out false hope, but it is a point to consider).
    Can an academy reject the advice ? Safety of the children is ultimately a local authority responsibility, which I presume is the reason given.
    Yes. The LEA might opt to prosecute over failings of H and S, but that would be a bold call when the school is following government advice.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    ydoethur said:

    I’ve got some sympathy with Lancashire over the idea they can’t guarantee health and safety for younger ages, or that the right equipment is in place. To be blunt, I would have tried to get the older year groups back first as a dummy run to iron out any flaws (but then I’m not typical because I thought schools should have stayed open anyway).

    Where I lose all sympathy is that ludicrous claim that this isn’t damaging the children’s education. Yes it bloody well is. Teaching on a screen for 20-30 minutes is no substitute for interacting with them. That’s even less convincing than Cummings’ lies about his travels.

    Someone is playing silly buggers there. Make a decision, even make an unpopular decision, but don’t patronise people or treat them like fools.

    ydoethur, I am struggling with the same thing professionally. I do a lot of workshops where I use inverted classroom and other adult learning methods which I am finding do not translate to Zoom or other electronic platforms because it is so much harder to build up the trust and confidence necessary to make oneself vulnerable in front of a group of colleagues - as full participation in this type of learning requires. Nothing substitutes for in person interactions in learning, imo.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,775

    tlg86 said:

    @Philip_Thompson - That doesn’t sound good. Do you know if it’s a blanket ban on the county or specific to your daughter’s school?

    Blanket. Lancashire County Council.
    So that's a Conservative controlled council. Not going to be popular at CCHQ.
    Indeed, I thought that too.
    Daughter in peril and you're worrying about Tory politics?

    Takes all sorts I guess.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117

    tyson said:

    I'm absolutely gutted for my daughter. Just received an email from her school saying that next week's reopening has been cancelled on the advice of the County Council. Attached was a letter from the County Council to the school advising all schools in the County remain closed.

    She's been really struggling last couple of weeks with her mental health, missing her friends and has been counting down the days, like to Christmas, to being able to see her friends again.

    The reopening had been confirmed and everything. To make matters worse and what makes me angry is they'd come up with plans on how the school would be different and had advised us to talk to her about how the school would be different to what she is used to - which we had done.

    To say there was no schooling is one thing. To promise she can come back, talk to her and get her excited about it, then rip it away from her once more. I'm furious about this.

    Sorry to hear it, Phil. Commisserations to yourself and your daughter.
    Stop it Peter...he is worse than Cummings...he's using his child to score a political point...
    F**k you, what possible political point could I be making? I was venting here.

    Thank you for the nice words from everyone else. Not looking forward to giving her the news tomorrow.
    The Council is making a decision based on it's responsibility to keep your child safe...you should be pleased they are being cautious.....

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    ydoethur said:

    tyson said:

    I'm absolutely gutted for my daughter. Just received an email from her school saying that next week's reopening has been cancelled on the advice of the County Council. Attached was a letter from the County Council to the school advising all schools in the County remain closed.

    She's been really struggling last couple of weeks with her mental health, missing her friends and has been counting down the days, like to Christmas, to being able to see her friends again.

    The reopening had been confirmed and everything. To make matters worse and what makes me angry is they'd come up with plans on how the school would be different and had advised us to talk to her about how the school would be different to what she is used to - which we had done.

    To say there was no schooling is one thing. To promise she can come back, talk to her and get her excited about it, then rip it away from her once more. I'm furious about this.

    Sorry to hear it, Phil. Commisserations to yourself and your daughter.
    Stop it Peter...he is worse than Cummings...he's using his child to score a political point...
    F**k you, what possible political point could I be making? I was venting here.

    Thank you for the nice words from everyone else. Not looking forward to giving her the news tomorrow.
    Is it a maintained school or an academy chain? If the latter, it might decide to reject the advice (I don’t want to hold out false hope, but it is a point to consider).
    Maintained, County school. The email is clear they're following the advice.
    Then you have my commiserations. Don’t know why they’re doing this, to be blunt. Seems they are being over cautious and not thinking through the implications of what they’re saying. We’re never going to meet the last two tests, are all schools going to stay shut for ever?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,240
    Pulpstar said:

    ydoethur said:

    tyson said:

    I'm absolutely gutted for my daughter. Just received an email from her school saying that next week's reopening has been cancelled on the advice of the County Council. Attached was a letter from the County Council to the school advising all schools in the County remain closed.

    She's been really struggling last couple of weeks with her mental health, missing her friends and has been counting down the days, like to Christmas, to being able to see her friends again.

    The reopening had been confirmed and everything. To make matters worse and what makes me angry is they'd come up with plans on how the school would be different and had advised us to talk to her about how the school would be different to what she is used to - which we had done.

    To say there was no schooling is one thing. To promise she can come back, talk to her and get her excited about it, then rip it away from her once more. I'm furious about this.

    Sorry to hear it, Phil. Commisserations to yourself and your daughter.
    Stop it Peter...he is worse than Cummings...he's using his child to score a political point...
    F**k you, what possible political point could I be making? I was venting here.

    Thank you for the nice words from everyone else. Not looking forward to giving her the news tomorrow.
    Is it a maintained school or an academy chain? If the latter, it might decide to reject the advice (I don’t want to hold out false hope, but it is a point to consider).
    Can an academy reject the advice ? Safety of the children is ultimately a local authority responsibility, which I presume is the reason given.
    I imagine that they can in theory, but might be horribly liable if it goes wrong. That probably applies more to academies than maintained schools.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Pulpstar said:

    ydoethur said:

    tyson said:

    I'm absolutely gutted for my daughter. Just received an email from her school saying that next week's reopening has been cancelled on the advice of the County Council. Attached was a letter from the County Council to the school advising all schools in the County remain closed.

    She's been really struggling last couple of weeks with her mental health, missing her friends and has been counting down the days, like to Christmas, to being able to see her friends again.

    The reopening had been confirmed and everything. To make matters worse and what makes me angry is they'd come up with plans on how the school would be different and had advised us to talk to her about how the school would be different to what she is used to - which we had done.

    To say there was no schooling is one thing. To promise she can come back, talk to her and get her excited about it, then rip it away from her once more. I'm furious about this.

    Sorry to hear it, Phil. Commisserations to yourself and your daughter.
    Stop it Peter...he is worse than Cummings...he's using his child to score a political point...
    F**k you, what possible political point could I be making? I was venting here.

    Thank you for the nice words from everyone else. Not looking forward to giving her the news tomorrow.
    Is it a maintained school or an academy chain? If the latter, it might decide to reject the advice (I don’t want to hold out false hope, but it is a point to consider).
    Can an academy reject the advice ? Safety of the children is ultimately a local authority responsibility, which I presume is the reason given.
    I imagine that they can in theory, but might be horribly liable if it goes wrong. That probably applies more to academies than maintained schools.
    If they are following govt instructions, I honestly don’t see how they’d be liable.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533

    I'm absolutely gutted for my daughter. Just received an email from her school saying that next week's reopening has been cancelled on the advice of the County Council. Attached was a letter from the County Council to the school advising all schools in the County remain closed.

    She's been really struggling last couple of weeks with her mental health, missing her friends and has been counting down the days, like to Christmas, to being able to see her friends again.

    The reopening had been confirmed and everything. To make matters worse and what makes me angry is they'd come up with plans on how the school would be different and had advised us to talk to her about how the school would be different to what she is used to - which we had done.

    To say there was no schooling is one thing. To promise she can come back, talk to her and get her excited about it, then rip it away from her once more. I'm furious about this.

    I'm sorry to hear that. I think they're being prudent - if Lancashire is like Surrey I think they're probably correct that Track/Trace isn't ready yet, so your daughter (and you) are probably safer if they wait a bit - probably just a couple of weeks. It's horribly frustrating when they said they'd open, but perhaps your daughter will also feel it's better for you all to be safe.

    I don't feel you're making a political point at all, by the way - it's just naturally infuriating.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    tyson said:

    tyson said:

    I'm absolutely gutted for my daughter. Just received an email from her school saying that next week's reopening has been cancelled on the advice of the County Council. Attached was a letter from the County Council to the school advising all schools in the County remain closed.

    She's been really struggling last couple of weeks with her mental health, missing her friends and has been counting down the days, like to Christmas, to being able to see her friends again.

    The reopening had been confirmed and everything. To make matters worse and what makes me angry is they'd come up with plans on how the school would be different and had advised us to talk to her about how the school would be different to what she is used to - which we had done.

    To say there was no schooling is one thing. To promise she can come back, talk to her and get her excited about it, then rip it away from her once more. I'm furious about this.

    Sorry to hear it, Phil. Commisserations to yourself and your daughter.
    Stop it Peter...he is worse than Cummings...he's using his child to score a political point...
    F**k you, what possible political point could I be making? I was venting here.

    Thank you for the nice words from everyone else. Not looking forward to giving her the news tomorrow.
    The Council is making a decision based on it's responsibility to keep your child safe...you should be pleased they are being cautious.....

    Don't be myopic, that doesn't make any difference to how cruel this is to her. Better not to build hopes up than to build them up and then snatch it away again.

    Obviously safety comes first, but mental health is as important as physical health, we should recognise that in 2020.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    I guess that's one way to take the heat off Dom. Completely fuck something else up the same way they did for testing, PPE and quarantine.

    Boris promised "World beating" at the last PMQs. Astonishing claim to make I thought at the time given how good we know the South Korean system is.
    It seemed like such an idiotic claim to make. We're building something from scratch when we really just need to copy some other system that already works. This is another failure for Matt Hancock. That makes quite a few now. The sad part is that Boris doesn't have the political capital to sack him any more. Not least because he'll struggle to recruit the correct replacement (Hunt) without giving up Dom.
    In fairness to Hancock, why was he given this additional responsibility when he already had most work and responsibility during the crisis?

    It should have gone to Gove, or another minister who could have made it their priority, not something to spend a bit of time on after fire fighting PPE and care homes for most of the day.
    Yes it should have been, but aiui PHE claimed it and so it fell under the DoH. Hancock is too weak to tell the idiots in PHE that they are clueless fucks and that the whole project should be handed over to the private sector under the cabinet office (same as the Nightingale hospitals and Ventilators) with different companies pitching solutions and then the cabinet office/Gove picking the best one.

    Instead the planks from PHE are scared of private sector encroachment in the same way they were for testing so we are where we are.
    I’ve been loathe to criticise agencies, given the scale of the pandemic, but PHE are the group who should have been prepared better than anyone - but clearly weren’t and totally messed up. If Hancock hadn’t announced the 100k testing target for April and said that nothing else mattered, they’d still be processing a few hundred here and there,
    Yes, it was also interesting that all of the negative stuff about not being able to hit the target was coming from them and their sources but the people saying it was definitely possible were from private sector labs and university labs who knew it was possible.

    Luckily my experience with the public sector is limited but from that I know that their immediate reflex action to being asked to do anything is "no". Honestly, if they started firing people who's first answer to every request was "no" then they might actually start getting into some kind of fit state.
    Difficult with no staff.
    😅
    In their defence, most parts of the public sector are of course besieged with far more requests to do stuff (not least from their politician 'bosses') and turning everything down at first asking is a useful mechanism to screen out the nonsense and create some sort of hurdle to ration the workload.

    And, as a general rule, most issues are more complex with more competing demands and more conflicting stakeholders than you find in the private sector. The biggest public sector mistakes tend to arise when things are decided too quickly.
    During my brief stint temping at Rotherham council (Or well RBT connect) it all seemed to be about the budgets. Budgets, budgets and more budgets. Everyone had a budget.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    TimT said:

    ydoethur said:

    I’ve got some sympathy with Lancashire over the idea they can’t guarantee health and safety for younger ages, or that the right equipment is in place. To be blunt, I would have tried to get the older year groups back first as a dummy run to iron out any flaws (but then I’m not typical because I thought schools should have stayed open anyway).

    Where I lose all sympathy is that ludicrous claim that this isn’t damaging the children’s education. Yes it bloody well is. Teaching on a screen for 20-30 minutes is no substitute for interacting with them. That’s even less convincing than Cummings’ lies about his travels.

    Someone is playing silly buggers there. Make a decision, even make an unpopular decision, but don’t patronise people or treat them like fools.

    ydoethur, I am struggling with the same thing professionally. I do a lot of workshops where I use inverted classroom and other adult learning methods which I am finding do not translate to Zoom or other electronic platforms because it is so much harder to build up the trust and confidence necessary to make oneself vulnerable in front of a group of colleagues - as full participation in this type of learning requires. Nothing substitutes for in person interactions in learning, imo.
    I had a lovely little lesson lined up for Year 8, am all class debate on the rights and wrongs of zoos. They’ve really got into it and it always goes well.

    Hopeless online. Just doesn’t work at all.

    So I talk to them on chat for 20 minutes and then they go and do posters. Which I’m sure they enjoy, but isn’t as valuable or fun as a good argument with a judge at the front.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413
    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    You have to wonder if other councils might follow suit. The safety of all children in state schools is ultimately the local authority's responsibility no matter the governance structure.
    Coventry and South Yorkshire are the two I'm tangentially watching (Coworkers and family)

    If they are not overruled, it’s possible.

    I have to say if I was concerned about health and safety here I would be pondering staffing ratios. There is a reason why I have been the only teacher from my faculty on site for the last two months and it’s because I’m the only one young enough and fit enough not to require shielding.

    But that letter really got silly at the end. Lancashire is a poor county. How many children have tech to access lessons or a decent space to work in?
    Lancashire is a poor county? Bits of it are.
    Quite a bit of it is very affluent. Especially when Blackpool and Blackburn have been hived off as UAs.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Omnium said:

    tlg86 said:

    @Philip_Thompson - That doesn’t sound good. Do you know if it’s a blanket ban on the county or specific to your daughter’s school?

    Blanket. Lancashire County Council.
    So that's a Conservative controlled council. Not going to be popular at CCHQ.
    Indeed, I thought that too.
    Daughter in peril and you're worrying about Tory politics?

    Takes all sorts I guess.
    No, I couldn't give a f**k about Tory politics. I thought it interesting that it was a Tory Council are saying that the Government are wrong, not that a Labour Council is.

    My thoughts are with my daughter, not party politics. It is interesting though that both parties involved are Tory so if there's a fuck up here the Tories own it 100%
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Scott_xP said:
    Paging @TGOHF2 looks like the Scottish system you were berating of 14 days isolation is UK wide.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    Scott_xP said:
    Well, it will certainly be a "revolution" to Cummings, as he did not self isolate but went on a 250 mile jolly.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413

    tlg86 said:

    @Philip_Thompson - That doesn’t sound good. Do you know if it’s a blanket ban on the county or specific to your daughter’s school?

    Blanket. Lancashire County Council.
    So that's a Conservative controlled council. Not going to be popular at CCHQ.
    Indeed, I thought that too.
    I believe, though I may be misremembering, that Essex, Surrey and Solihull are other Tory Councils to have come out with this too.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    tlg86 said:

    @Philip_Thompson - That doesn’t sound good. Do you know if it’s a blanket ban on the county or specific to your daughter’s school?

    Blanket. Lancashire County Council.
    So that's a Conservative controlled council. Not going to be popular at CCHQ.
    Indeed, I thought that too.
    I suspect others will follow suit.

    Appreciate this must be very disappointing and upsetting for your daughter.

    However...

    An anecdotal view I got from two family members on a zoom get together: both are primary school teachers, both currently working hard running online lessons.

    Both would love to get back to 'normal' teaching but I was surprised at how strongly they thought trying to do that in June was madness. Neither thought their schools would be anything like ready to do this properly or safely in June. Significant infrastructure changes required both schools (e.g. more washbasins).
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,240
    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    You have to wonder if other councils might follow suit. The safety of all children in state schools is ultimately the local authority's responsibility no matter the governance structure.
    Coventry and South Yorkshire are the two I'm tangentially watching (Coworkers and family)

    If they are not overruled, it’s possible.

    I have to say if I was concerned about health and safety here I would be pondering staffing ratios. There is a reason why I have been the only teacher from my faculty on site for the last two months and it’s because I’m the only one young enough and fit enough not to require shielding.

    But that letter really got silly at the end. Lancashire is a poor county. How many children have tech to access lessons or a decent space to work in?
    That's where the "It will be over soon" wishful thinking is a problem.

    Once you accept that schools are going to be closed for a significant while, the smart thing to do is
    1 Put lessons on broadcast TV (The BBC have done this, but only 20 minutes per year group per day, which is nice but not enough really).
    2 Have followup work online or on paper.
    3 Accept that schools are doing keyworker childcare (with gradually expanding definitions of keyworker) and offline feedback on followup work. Maybe by post.

    The ingredients to do this exist, but you have to accept that Covid will take time to sort out, so it's worth putting effort into a national system for the interim.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    Tim_B said:

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Tim_B said:

    Sandpit said:

    Damn, looks like a scrub. :(

    looks good at 17 to go
    Weather got them in the end. Back on Saturday night for another go.
    Seems like the weather would have been OK ten minutes later, but they couldn't miss their time slot
    Usually they have a ‘launch window’ of a few minutes, when they can delay for a bit if they need to, but this one was an ‘instantaneous window’, where any delay was automatically a scrubbed attempt.

    Apart from the weather everything else looked good, so they’ll be calling this one a dress rehearsal for Saturday!
    If you're just going into orbit and do stuff then you have a launch window, but going to the ISS you have to hit the launch time exactly
    Yes of course, a simple rocket meeting up with something else has only the one shot to get it right, as opposed to a manoeuvrable Shuttle (may they rest in peace) or non-rendezvous mission, where there’s more leeway in the launch window.

    19:22 GMT on Saturday, for the next attempt, good luck and God speed to them.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117

    I'm absolutely gutted for my daughter. Just received an email from her school saying that next week's reopening has been cancelled on the advice of the County Council. Attached was a letter from the County Council to the school advising all schools in the County remain closed.

    She's been really struggling last couple of weeks with her mental health, missing her friends and has been counting down the days, like to Christmas, to being able to see her friends again.

    The reopening had been confirmed and everything. To make matters worse and what makes me angry is they'd come up with plans on how the school would be different and had advised us to talk to her about how the school would be different to what she is used to - which we had done.

    To say there was no schooling is one thing. To promise she can come back, talk to her and get her excited about it, then rip it away from her once more. I'm furious about this.

    I'm sorry to hear that. I think they're being prudent - if Lancashire is like Surrey I think they're probably correct that Track/Trace isn't ready yet, so your daughter (and you) are probably safer if they wait a bit - probably just a couple of weeks. It's horribly frustrating when they said they'd open, but perhaps your daughter will also feel it's better for you all to be safe.

    I don't feel you're making a political point at all, by the way - it's just naturally infuriating.
    Nick....maybe you want to take a view of how many schools will be struggling to get kids in come June 1st.....alot of the kids want to go in (I'm sure), but the parents are worried.....and many will keep them at home if they can....

    I thought PT was making a political point on that one...and using his child to make it....so we'll have to disagree on that one.....
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Anyway, on a different topic it is so quiet here in Cannock I just heard an electric train leaving Cannock Station more than a mile away. That’s very unusual even at this time of night. (I’m in the garden, by the way.)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    tlg86 said:

    @Philip_Thompson - That doesn’t sound good. Do you know if it’s a blanket ban on the county or specific to your daughter’s school?

    Blanket. Lancashire County Council.
    So that's a Conservative controlled council. Not going to be popular at CCHQ.
    Indeed, I thought that too.
    I suspect others will follow suit.

    Appreciate this must be very disappointing and upsetting for your daughter.

    However...

    An anecdotal view I got from two family members on a zoom get together: both are primary school teachers, both currently working hard running online lessons.

    Both would love to get back to 'normal' teaching but I was surprised at how strongly they thought trying to do that in June was madness. Neither thought their schools would be anything like ready to do this properly or safely in June. Significant infrastructure changes required both schools (e.g. more washbasins).
    I was attending an online conference yesterday about teaching the Holocaust in primary and secondary schools.

    Half the delegates had to pull out because they were planning these kind of things.

    It is going to be difficult, agreed. But I think it would be worth it.

    Good night to all.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Sandpit said:

    Tim_B said:

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Tim_B said:

    Sandpit said:

    Damn, looks like a scrub. :(

    looks good at 17 to go
    Weather got them in the end. Back on Saturday night for another go.
    Seems like the weather would have been OK ten minutes later, but they couldn't miss their time slot
    Usually they have a ‘launch window’ of a few minutes, when they can delay for a bit if they need to, but this one was an ‘instantaneous window’, where any delay was automatically a scrubbed attempt.

    Apart from the weather everything else looked good, so they’ll be calling this one a dress rehearsal for Saturday!
    If you're just going into orbit and do stuff then you have a launch window, but going to the ISS you have to hit the launch time exactly
    Yes of course, a simple rocket meeting up with something else has only the one shot to get it right, as opposed to a manoeuvrable Shuttle (may they rest in peace) or non-rendezvous mission, where there’s more leeway in the launch window.

    19:22 GMT on Saturday, for the next attempt, good luck and God speed to them.
    It's dark now, but we wont see much when it's still light at 9 pm
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    You have to wonder if other councils might follow suit. The safety of all children in state schools is ultimately the local authority's responsibility no matter the governance structure.
    Coventry and South Yorkshire are the two I'm tangentially watching (Coworkers and family)

    If they are not overruled, it’s possible.

    I have to say if I was concerned about health and safety here I would be pondering staffing ratios. There is a reason why I have been the only teacher from my faculty on site for the last two months and it’s because I’m the only one young enough and fit enough not to require shielding.

    But that letter really got silly at the end. Lancashire is a poor county. How many children have tech to access lessons or a decent space to work in?
    That's where the "It will be over soon" wishful thinking is a problem.

    Once you accept that schools are going to be closed for a significant while, the smart thing to do is
    1 Put lessons on broadcast TV (The BBC have done this, but only 20 minutes per year group per day, which is nice but not enough really).
    2 Have followup work online or on paper.
    3 Accept that schools are doing keyworker childcare (with gradually expanding definitions of keyworker) and offline feedback on followup work. Maybe by post.

    The ingredients to do this exist, but you have to accept that Covid will take time to sort out, so it's worth putting effort into a national system for the interim.
    This is all very sensible. However, an alternative plan would be
    1 Announce random date to win favourable headlines.
    2 Leave it to others to deal with the details.
    3 Apportion blame when it is discovered it is more complicated than all that.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    tyson said:

    I'm absolutely gutted for my daughter. Just received an email from her school saying that next week's reopening has been cancelled on the advice of the County Council. Attached was a letter from the County Council to the school advising all schools in the County remain closed.

    She's been really struggling last couple of weeks with her mental health, missing her friends and has been counting down the days, like to Christmas, to being able to see her friends again.

    The reopening had been confirmed and everything. To make matters worse and what makes me angry is they'd come up with plans on how the school would be different and had advised us to talk to her about how the school would be different to what she is used to - which we had done.

    To say there was no schooling is one thing. To promise she can come back, talk to her and get her excited about it, then rip it away from her once more. I'm furious about this.

    I'm sorry to hear that. I think they're being prudent - if Lancashire is like Surrey I think they're probably correct that Track/Trace isn't ready yet, so your daughter (and you) are probably safer if they wait a bit - probably just a couple of weeks. It's horribly frustrating when they said they'd open, but perhaps your daughter will also feel it's better for you all to be safe.

    I don't feel you're making a political point at all, by the way - it's just naturally infuriating.
    Nick....maybe you want to take a view of how many schools will be struggling to get kids in come June 1st.....alot of the kids want to go in (I'm sure), but the parents are worried.....and many will keep them at home if they can....

    I thought PT was making a political point on that one...and using his child to make it....so we'll have to disagree on that one.....
    Er no Philip was looking after the interest of his child like any good father would.

    Tyson do you ever post your left filled hatred on here without having two or three bottles of wine first?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    Scott_xP said:

    What a fucking disaster this all is. You couldn't make it up. The Chief Modeller and the Lord High Chief Everything both smash the rules to pieces for their own egotistic ends then they are asking the rest of us to keep carrying on and do our duty.

    A tracking app is being developed that will probably never see the light of day because ministers could not bear the idea of using a basic API that other countries were using.

    Meanwhile, we were told a carefully staged set of steps to unlock gradually and slowly, constantly looking at R and unwinding if necessary, has become Announce That X is to Open within days on an hourly basis. Anything, anything to divert from one of the worst examples of elite hypocrisy in modern history.










  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    tyson said:

    I'm absolutely gutted for my daughter. Just received an email from her school saying that next week's reopening has been cancelled on the advice of the County Council. Attached was a letter from the County Council to the school advising all schools in the County remain closed.

    She's been really struggling last couple of weeks with her mental health, missing her friends and has been counting down the days, like to Christmas, to being able to see her friends again.

    The reopening had been confirmed and everything. To make matters worse and what makes me angry is they'd come up with plans on how the school would be different and had advised us to talk to her about how the school would be different to what she is used to - which we had done.

    To say there was no schooling is one thing. To promise she can come back, talk to her and get her excited about it, then rip it away from her once more. I'm furious about this.

    I'm sorry to hear that. I think they're being prudent - if Lancashire is like Surrey I think they're probably correct that Track/Trace isn't ready yet, so your daughter (and you) are probably safer if they wait a bit - probably just a couple of weeks. It's horribly frustrating when they said they'd open, but perhaps your daughter will also feel it's better for you all to be safe.

    I don't feel you're making a political point at all, by the way - it's just naturally infuriating.
    Nick....maybe you want to take a view of how many schools will be struggling to get kids in come June 1st.....alot of the kids want to go in (I'm sure), but the parents are worried.....and many will keep them at home if they can....

    I thought PT was making a political point on that one...and using his child to make it....so we'll have to disagree on that one.....
    Yeah I was trying to make a party political point that the Tory Government and Tory Council have combined screwed the pooch here and messed with the emotions and mental health of young children . . . (!)

    Politics is the last thing on my mind. Trying to explain to a six year old why she can't see her friends next week when she's been counting down the days to being able to do so - and trying to think of something nice to distract her with when the park is closed and she can't play on the swings . . . that's what is on my mind.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    I guess that's one way to take the heat off Dom. Completely fuck something else up the same way they did for testing, PPE and quarantine.

    Boris promised "World beating" at the last PMQs. Astonishing claim to make I thought at the time given how good we know the South Korean system is.
    It seemed like such an idiotic claim to make. We're building something from scratch when we really just need to copy some other system that already works. This is another failure for Matt Hancock. That makes quite a few now. The sad part is that Boris doesn't have the political capital to sack him any more. Not least because he'll struggle to recruit the correct replacement (Hunt) without giving up Dom.
    In fairness to Hancock, why was he given this additional responsibility when he already had most work and responsibility during the crisis?

    It should have gone to Gove, or another minister who could have made it their priority, not something to spend a bit of time on after fire fighting PPE and care homes for most of the day.
    Yes it should have been, but aiui PHE claimed it and so it fell under the DoH. Hancock is too weak to tell the idiots in PHE that they are clueless fucks and that the whole project should be handed over to the private sector under the cabinet office (same as the Nightingale hospitals and Ventilators) with different companies pitching solutions and then the cabinet office/Gove picking the best one.

    Instead the planks from PHE are scared of private sector encroachment in the same way they were for testing so we are where we are.
    I’ve been loathe to criticise agencies, given the scale of the pandemic, but PHE are the group who should have been prepared better than anyone - but clearly weren’t and totally messed up. If Hancock hadn’t announced the 100k testing target for April and said that nothing else mattered, they’d still be processing a few hundred here and there,
    Yes, it was also interesting that all of the negative stuff about not being able to hit the target was coming from them and their sources but the people saying it was definitely possible were from private sector labs and university labs who knew it was possible.

    Luckily my experience with the public sector is limited but from that I know that their immediate reflex action to being asked to do anything is "no". Honestly, if they started firing people who's first answer to every request was "no" then they might actually start getting into some kind of fit state.
    Difficult with no staff.
    😅
    In their defence, most parts of the public sector are of course besieged with far more requests to do stuff (not least from their politician 'bosses') and turning everything down at first asking is a useful mechanism to screen out the nonsense and create some sort of hurdle to ration the workload.

    And, as a general rule, most issues are more complex with more competing demands and more conflicting stakeholders than you find in the private sector. The biggest public sector mistakes tend to arise when things are decided too quickly.
    I think part of the issue is also wages at the lower levels. It leads to extremely unimpressive candidates. One of my younger cousins went to a jobs fair and he was speaking to the civil service recruitment person and the salary was around 40% power than was being offered for a graduate analyst in the city and tech companies. It was a no brainer for him as he has a top degree from Imperial. He works for Apple now in their big data division.

    I also think the image of the public sector pita a lot of top candidates off, he was asking me for advice because I've worked for big tech and a big bank and his main concern in the public sector was that as a man from an overachieving race he might see his career held back and wanted to know if that was true and if it was something that I'd faced in big tech/banking.

    If I were to make two changes to the public sector it would be to cut wages at the top where they are wasted and raise them at the bottom, and I'd get rid of all positive discrimination and recruit/promote on merit.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,354
    tyson said:

    I'm absolutely gutted for my daughter. Just received an email from her school saying that next week's reopening has been cancelled on the advice of the County Council. Attached was a letter from the County Council to the school advising all schools in the County remain closed.

    She's been really struggling last couple of weeks with her mental health, missing her friends and has been counting down the days, like to Christmas, to being able to see her friends again.

    The reopening had been confirmed and everything. To make matters worse and what makes me angry is they'd come up with plans on how the school would be different and had advised us to talk to her about how the school would be different to what she is used to - which we had done.

    To say there was no schooling is one thing. To promise she can come back, talk to her and get her excited about it, then rip it away from her once more. I'm furious about this.

    Sorry to hear it, Phil. Commisserations to yourself and your daughter.
    Stop it Peter...he is worse than Cummings...he's using his child to score a political point...
    Can it, Tyson. I'll decide for myself who is point scoring and who is not.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    Scott_xP said:
    I suspect they might reply, 'Cummings".
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Scott_xP said:

    What a fucking disaster this all is. You couldn't make it up. The Chief Modeller and the Lord High Chief Everything both smash the rules to pieces for their own egotistic ends then they are asking the rest of us to keep carrying on and do our duty.

    A tracking app is being developed that will probably never see the light of day because ministers could not bear the idea of using a basic API that other countries were using.

    Meanwhile, we were told a carefully staged set of steps to unlock gradually and slowly, constantly looking at R and unwinding if necessary, has become Announce That X is to Open within days on an hourly basis. Anything, anything to divert from one of the worst examples of elite hypocrisy in modern history.










    Yes. Not so long ago we were confidently expecting that foreknowledge of what had happened in Italy and our renowned British common sense would see us cope better than our European neighbours, while the Americans were confident in their immunity to the rest of the world's problems.

    Roll on a couple of months and what a shambles the response in both UK and US has turned into.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Paging @TGOHF2 looks like the Scottish system you were berating of 14 days isolation is UK wide.
    Scottish = bad
    British = good
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    edited May 2020
    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Paging @TGOHF2 looks like the Scottish system you were berating of 14 days isolation is UK wide.
    The Scottish system isn’t starting tomorrow...

    But NS said it would be legally enforced.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    Boris looking and sounding very convincing on the BBC edit. I watched the whole thing and he was useless.

    Good edit for Boris.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    tyson said:

    I'm absolutely gutted for my daughter. Just received an email from her school saying that next week's reopening has been cancelled on the advice of the County Council. Attached was a letter from the County Council to the school advising all schools in the County remain closed.

    She's been really struggling last couple of weeks with her mental health, missing her friends and has been counting down the days, like to Christmas, to being able to see her friends again.

    The reopening had been confirmed and everything. To make matters worse and what makes me angry is they'd come up with plans on how the school would be different and had advised us to talk to her about how the school would be different to what she is used to - which we had done.

    To say there was no schooling is one thing. To promise she can come back, talk to her and get her excited about it, then rip it away from her once more. I'm furious about this.

    I'm sorry to hear that. I think they're being prudent - if Lancashire is like Surrey I think they're probably correct that Track/Trace isn't ready yet, so your daughter (and you) are probably safer if they wait a bit - probably just a couple of weeks. It's horribly frustrating when they said they'd open, but perhaps your daughter will also feel it's better for you all to be safe.

    I don't feel you're making a political point at all, by the way - it's just naturally infuriating.
    Nick....maybe you want to take a view of how many schools will be struggling to get kids in come June 1st.....alot of the kids want to go in (I'm sure), but the parents are worried.....and many will keep them at home if they can....

    I thought PT was making a political point on that one...and using his child to make it....so we'll have to disagree on that one.....
    Yeah I was trying to make a party political point that the Tory Government and Tory Council have combined screwed the pooch here and messed with the emotions and mental health of young children . . . (!)

    Politics is the last thing on my mind. Trying to explain to a six year old why she can't see her friends next week when she's been counting down the days to being able to do so - and trying to think of something nice to distract her with when the park is closed and she can't play on the swings . . . that's what is on my mind.
    We met some of my daughters class in the park today. Parents socially distanced. Kids, well... they were pleased to see their friends.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    What a fucking disaster this all is. You couldn't make it up. The Chief Modeller and the Lord High Chief Everything both smash the rules to pieces for their own egotistic ends then they are asking the rest of us to keep carrying on and do our duty.

    A tracking app is being developed that will probably never see the light of day because ministers could not bear the idea of using a basic API that other countries were using.

    Meanwhile, we were told a carefully staged set of steps to unlock gradually and slowly, constantly looking at R and unwinding if necessary, has become Announce That X is to Open within days on an hourly basis. Anything, anything to divert from one of the worst examples of elite hypocrisy in modern history.










    Yes. Not so long ago we were confidently expecting that foreknowledge of what had happened in Italy and our renowned British common sense would see us cope better than our European neighbours, while the Americans were confident in their immunity to the rest of the world's problems.

    Roll on a couple of months and what a shambles the response in both UK and US has turned into.

    It is no coincidence I suspect that the bits of the whole virus response that have worked have involved the military.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    tyson said:

    I'm absolutely gutted for my daughter. Just received an email from her school saying that next week's reopening has been cancelled on the advice of the County Council. Attached was a letter from the County Council to the school advising all schools in the County remain closed.

    She's been really struggling last couple of weeks with her mental health, missing her friends and has been counting down the days, like to Christmas, to being able to see her friends again.

    The reopening had been confirmed and everything. To make matters worse and what makes me angry is they'd come up with plans on how the school would be different and had advised us to talk to her about how the school would be different to what she is used to - which we had done.

    To say there was no schooling is one thing. To promise she can come back, talk to her and get her excited about it, then rip it away from her once more. I'm furious about this.

    I'm sorry to hear that. I think they're being prudent - if Lancashire is like Surrey I think they're probably correct that Track/Trace isn't ready yet, so your daughter (and you) are probably safer if they wait a bit - probably just a couple of weeks. It's horribly frustrating when they said they'd open, but perhaps your daughter will also feel it's better for you all to be safe.

    I don't feel you're making a political point at all, by the way - it's just naturally infuriating.
    Nick....maybe you want to take a view of how many schools will be struggling to get kids in come June 1st.....alot of the kids want to go in (I'm sure), but the parents are worried.....and many will keep them at home if they can....

    I thought PT was making a political point on that one...and using his child to make it....so we'll have to disagree on that one.....
    My youngest starts back on Tues - only 1 out of 30 isn’t coming back on the first day.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    What a fucking disaster this all is. You couldn't make it up. The Chief Modeller and the Lord High Chief Everything both smash the rules to pieces for their own egotistic ends then they are asking the rest of us to keep carrying on and do our duty.

    A tracking app is being developed that will probably never see the light of day because ministers could not bear the idea of using a basic API that other countries were using.

    Meanwhile, we were told a carefully staged set of steps to unlock gradually and slowly, constantly looking at R and unwinding if necessary, has become Announce That X is to Open within days on an hourly basis. Anything, anything to divert from one of the worst examples of elite hypocrisy in modern history.










    Yes. Not so long ago we were confidently expecting that foreknowledge of what had happened in Italy and our renowned British common sense would see us cope better than our European neighbours, while the Americans were confident in their immunity to the rest of the world's problems.

    Roll on a couple of months and what a shambles the response in both UK and US has turned into.

    It is no coincidence I suspect that the bits of the whole virus response that have worked have involved the military.
    And the private sector. Whenever the government has turned to companies they have delivered. PHE are donkeys.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Paging @TGOHF2 looks like the Scottish system you were berating of 14 days isolation is UK wide.
    Scottish = bad
    British = good
    Scottish = not ready
    English =starts tomorrow...
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    501 deaths in Mexico today. Don't even want to imagine how high that figure might go.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    ydoethur said:

    I'm absolutely gutted for my daughter. Just received an email from her school saying that next week's reopening has been cancelled on the advice of the County Council. Attached was a letter from the County Council to the school advising all schools in the County remain closed.

    She's been really struggling last couple of weeks with her mental health, missing her friends and has been counting down the days, like to Christmas, to being able to see her friends again.

    The reopening had been confirmed and everything. To make matters worse and what makes me angry is they'd come up with plans on how the school would be different and had advised us to talk to her about how the school would be different to what she is used to - which we had done.

    To say there was no schooling is one thing. To promise she can come back, talk to her and get her excited about it, then rip it away from her once more. I'm furious about this.

    Very sorry to hear this PhilIp. Did they say why they had given this advice?
    They believe only 3 of the 5 government tests have been met. Don't believe Test & Trace is ready, and consequentially don't believe that there won't be a second peak.

    Taken from the document:

    "Locally, we are currently able to meet the requirements of the first three tests; however, we do not meet the requirements for the final two tests. The test and trace programme is not at a state of readiness to respond to Covid-19 community setting outbreaks in a timely manner, which poses a risk to school environments.

    Furthermore, we are not confident that adjustments to the current measures of the lockdown policy will not risk a second peak of infections locally. Consequently, our advice to schools is to not re-open to more pupils on June 1st, but to continue with their current support systems that are in place. The safety and wellbeing of children, their families, and school staff outweigh the benefits of opening schools of 1st June"
    Sounds fair enough - if they haven't got Test & Trace up to speed yet (does anyone?). The second point is a bit more oblique - it reads as a criticism of government policy.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    We’ve reached the point where the only way to understand the state the country is in is to realise that it has become a banana republic.

    A failed state run by a bad joke of a prime minister, who prioritises the job security of his elite advisers over the health of millions. A man who sees no need to be across the most basic points of government policy and is so inarticulate that he can’t even start a sentence let alone finish one.

    It’s normal for a prime minister to appear before the liaison committee – the supergroup of select committee chairs – at least three times a year. This was the first time Boris Johnson had bothered to turn up in more than 10 months. And you could see why. Even with Dominic Cummings sitting just off screen – Boris’s eyes kept darting to the right, desperate for help – holding up placards with something approximating an answer, Johnson was lost for words. The great populist who doesn’t even realise he has long since lost the support of the people. A mini-dictator surrounded by yes men locked inside the No 10 bunker.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/27/boris-johnson-showman-out-of-his-depth-john-crace
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    tyson said:

    I'm absolutely gutted for my daughter. Just received an email from her school saying that next week's reopening has been cancelled on the advice of the County Council. Attached was a letter from the County Council to the school advising all schools in the County remain closed.

    She's been really struggling last couple of weeks with her mental health, missing her friends and has been counting down the days, like to Christmas, to being able to see her friends again.

    The reopening had been confirmed and everything. To make matters worse and what makes me angry is they'd come up with plans on how the school would be different and had advised us to talk to her about how the school would be different to what she is used to - which we had done.

    To say there was no schooling is one thing. To promise she can come back, talk to her and get her excited about it, then rip it away from her once more. I'm furious about this.

    That's a shame for your daughter - did the school say why the Council had decided that? Have they said when they might open?
    A hint might be the Govt is fucking incompetent....and you cannot trust anything that comes out of their lying mouths.....

    Other than that...I can't think of what else the council can base their decision on....
    You could always read the excerpt above from the letter.....
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Charles said:

    tyson said:

    I'm absolutely gutted for my daughter. Just received an email from her school saying that next week's reopening has been cancelled on the advice of the County Council. Attached was a letter from the County Council to the school advising all schools in the County remain closed.

    She's been really struggling last couple of weeks with her mental health, missing her friends and has been counting down the days, like to Christmas, to being able to see her friends again.

    The reopening had been confirmed and everything. To make matters worse and what makes me angry is they'd come up with plans on how the school would be different and had advised us to talk to her about how the school would be different to what she is used to - which we had done.

    To say there was no schooling is one thing. To promise she can come back, talk to her and get her excited about it, then rip it away from her once more. I'm furious about this.

    I'm sorry to hear that. I think they're being prudent - if Lancashire is like Surrey I think they're probably correct that Track/Trace isn't ready yet, so your daughter (and you) are probably safer if they wait a bit - probably just a couple of weeks. It's horribly frustrating when they said they'd open, but perhaps your daughter will also feel it's better for you all to be safe.

    I don't feel you're making a political point at all, by the way - it's just naturally infuriating.
    Nick....maybe you want to take a view of how many schools will be struggling to get kids in come June 1st.....alot of the kids want to go in (I'm sure), but the parents are worried.....and many will keep them at home if they can....

    I thought PT was making a political point on that one...and using his child to make it....so we'll have to disagree on that one.....
    Yeah I was trying to make a party political point that the Tory Government and Tory Council have combined screwed the pooch here and messed with the emotions and mental health of young children . . . (!)

    Politics is the last thing on my mind. Trying to explain to a six year old why she can't see her friends next week when she's been counting down the days to being able to do so - and trying to think of something nice to distract her with when the park is closed and she can't play on the swings . . . that's what is on my mind.
    We met some of my daughters class in the park today. Parents socially distanced. Kids, well... they were pleased to see their friends.
    That's nice. :smile:

    We've 100% strictly adhered to lockdown so she's not seen anyone since this began, not even for her birthday. All contact has been with family via Facebook Portal, no friends as we hadn't exchanged contact details with any of them besides for birthday parties.
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400

    Scott_xP said:

    What a fucking disaster this all is. You couldn't make it up. The Chief Modeller and the Lord High Chief Everything both smash the rules to pieces for their own egotistic ends then they are asking the rest of us to keep carrying on and do our duty.

    A tracking app is being developed that will probably never see the light of day because ministers could not bear the idea of using a basic API that other countries were using.

    Meanwhile, we were told a carefully staged set of steps to unlock gradually and slowly, constantly looking at R and unwinding if necessary, has become Announce That X is to Open within days on an hourly basis. Anything, anything to divert from one of the worst examples of elite hypocrisy in modern history.



    Any hardcore europhile should be pushing for a crash out WTO Brexit this December. The mess this government would make of it would have us back in the EU and the euro by the end of 2021. In the middle of it all we'd probably find Cummings fleeing the country to his French chateaux for good measure.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    ydoethur said:

    I'm absolutely gutted for my daughter. Just received an email from her school saying that next week's reopening has been cancelled on the advice of the County Council. Attached was a letter from the County Council to the school advising all schools in the County remain closed.

    She's been really struggling last couple of weeks with her mental health, missing her friends and has been counting down the days, like to Christmas, to being able to see her friends again.

    The reopening had been confirmed and everything. To make matters worse and what makes me angry is they'd come up with plans on how the school would be different and had advised us to talk to her about how the school would be different to what she is used to - which we had done.

    To say there was no schooling is one thing. To promise she can come back, talk to her and get her excited about it, then rip it away from her once more. I'm furious about this.

    Very sorry to hear this PhilIp. Did they say why they had given this advice?
    They believe only 3 of the 5 government tests have been met. Don't believe Test & Trace is ready, and consequentially don't believe that there won't be a second peak.

    Taken from the document:

    "Locally, we are currently able to meet the requirements of the first three tests; however, we do not meet the requirements for the final two tests. The test and trace programme is not at a state of readiness to respond to Covid-19 community setting outbreaks in a timely manner, which poses a risk to school environments.

    Furthermore, we are not confident that adjustments to the current measures of the lockdown policy will not risk a second peak of infections locally. Consequently, our advice to schools is to not re-open to more pupils on June 1st, but to continue with their current support systems that are in place. The safety and wellbeing of children, their families, and school staff outweigh the benefits of opening schools of 1st June"
    Sounds fair enough - if they haven't got Test & Trace up to speed yet (does anyone?). The second point is a bit more oblique - it reads as a criticism of government policy.
    Starts tomorrow - Hancock confirmed tonight in the briefing.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    TGOHF666 said:

    Starts tomorrow - Hancock confirmed tonight in the briefing.

    Doesn't fucking work

    Confirmed by everyone else...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    TGOHF666 said:

    tyson said:

    I'm absolutely gutted for my daughter. Just received an email from her school saying that next week's reopening has been cancelled on the advice of the County Council. Attached was a letter from the County Council to the school advising all schools in the County remain closed.

    She's been really struggling last couple of weeks with her mental health, missing her friends and has been counting down the days, like to Christmas, to being able to see her friends again.

    The reopening had been confirmed and everything. To make matters worse and what makes me angry is they'd come up with plans on how the school would be different and had advised us to talk to her about how the school would be different to what she is used to - which we had done.

    To say there was no schooling is one thing. To promise she can come back, talk to her and get her excited about it, then rip it away from her once more. I'm furious about this.

    I'm sorry to hear that. I think they're being prudent - if Lancashire is like Surrey I think they're probably correct that Track/Trace isn't ready yet, so your daughter (and you) are probably safer if they wait a bit - probably just a couple of weeks. It's horribly frustrating when they said they'd open, but perhaps your daughter will also feel it's better for you all to be safe.

    I don't feel you're making a political point at all, by the way - it's just naturally infuriating.
    Nick....maybe you want to take a view of how many schools will be struggling to get kids in come June 1st.....alot of the kids want to go in (I'm sure), but the parents are worried.....and many will keep them at home if they can....

    I thought PT was making a political point on that one...and using his child to make it....so we'll have to disagree on that one.....
    My youngest starts back on Tues - only 1 out of 30 isn’t coming back on the first day.
    I hope yours goes back smoothly.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    Scott_xP said:

    We’ve reached the point where the only way to understand the state the country is in is to realise that it has become a banana republic.

    A failed state run by a bad joke of a prime minister, who prioritises the job security of his elite advisers over the health of millions. A man who sees no need to be across the most basic points of government policy and is so inarticulate that he can’t even start a sentence let alone finish one.

    It’s normal for a prime minister to appear before the liaison committee – the supergroup of select committee chairs – at least three times a year. This was the first time Boris Johnson had bothered to turn up in more than 10 months. And you could see why. Even with Dominic Cummings sitting just off screen – Boris’s eyes kept darting to the right, desperate for help – holding up placards with something approximating an answer, Johnson was lost for words. The great populist who doesn’t even realise he has long since lost the support of the people. A mini-dictator surrounded by yes men locked inside the No 10 bunker.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/27/boris-johnson-showman-out-of-his-depth-john-crace

    My big takeaway was Mr Johnson admitting he doesn't read the scientific data. His opponent in last year's leadership election clearly does.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    I'm not too fussed about the Maitlis comment but its shocking that Carole Cadwalladr is involved in Newsnight. Is she on the credits? What next David Icke producing Question Time?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited May 2020

    Scott_xP said:

    What a fucking disaster this all is. You couldn't make it up. The Chief Modeller and the Lord High Chief Everything both smash the rules to pieces for their own egotistic ends then they are asking the rest of us to keep carrying on and do our duty.

    A tracking app is being developed that will probably never see the light of day because ministers could not bear the idea of using a basic API that other countries were using.

    Meanwhile, we were told a carefully staged set of steps to unlock gradually and slowly, constantly looking at R and unwinding if necessary, has become Announce That X is to Open within days on an hourly basis. Anything, anything to divert from one of the worst examples of elite hypocrisy in modern history.
    It's like watching England bat first in a test match and settling in to enjoy them clocking up 350-400 runs, and they are all out for 67 by lunch. It is unbelievable that May's successor should be worse than her by any conceivable measure.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    TGOHF666 said:

    ydoethur said:

    I'm absolutely gutted for my daughter. Just received an email from her school saying that next week's reopening has been cancelled on the advice of the County Council. Attached was a letter from the County Council to the school advising all schools in the County remain closed.

    She's been really struggling last couple of weeks with her mental health, missing her friends and has been counting down the days, like to Christmas, to being able to see her friends again.

    The reopening had been confirmed and everything. To make matters worse and what makes me angry is they'd come up with plans on how the school would be different and had advised us to talk to her about how the school would be different to what she is used to - which we had done.

    To say there was no schooling is one thing. To promise she can come back, talk to her and get her excited about it, then rip it away from her once more. I'm furious about this.

    Very sorry to hear this PhilIp. Did they say why they had given this advice?
    They believe only 3 of the 5 government tests have been met. Don't believe Test & Trace is ready, and consequentially don't believe that there won't be a second peak.

    Taken from the document:

    "Locally, we are currently able to meet the requirements of the first three tests; however, we do not meet the requirements for the final two tests. The test and trace programme is not at a state of readiness to respond to Covid-19 community setting outbreaks in a timely manner, which poses a risk to school environments.

    Furthermore, we are not confident that adjustments to the current measures of the lockdown policy will not risk a second peak of infections locally. Consequently, our advice to schools is to not re-open to more pupils on June 1st, but to continue with their current support systems that are in place. The safety and wellbeing of children, their families, and school staff outweigh the benefits of opening schools of 1st June"
    Sounds fair enough - if they haven't got Test & Trace up to speed yet (does anyone?). The second point is a bit more oblique - it reads as a criticism of government policy.
    Starts tomorrow - Hancock confirmed tonight in the briefing.
    All elements of it?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,878
    Scott_xP said:

    We’ve reached the point where the only way to understand the state the country is in is to realise that it has become a banana republic.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/27/boris-johnson-showman-out-of-his-depth-john-crace

    Banana monarchy!
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    And as I warned there was always a danger that some journalists with a vendetta would overstep the mark with Cummings. Maitilis has now become the story and the newspaper comment sections are not kind to her.

    The PM must be delighted with the useful idiots at Newsnight. They have certainly given the Cummings story a different dynamic and brought BBC impartiality back into the public conscience.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    Is Boris doing the briefing tomorrow? As it is the formal lockdown renewal date?

    How is Boris getting on with sorting out the family bubble thing????
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    Scott_xP said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Starts tomorrow - Hancock confirmed tonight in the briefing.

    Doesn't fucking work

    Confirmed by everyone else...
    You don’t get it - it’s about reducing the R - not catching every case and every contact.


    Achieving 100% compliance under threat of arrest ain’t the game.

    After all - it only applies to cases testing positive as of today.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/27/newsnights-anti-cummings-rant-exposes-bbcs-true-partisan-colours/

    "the Foxification of the BBC"

    I think that is slightly unfair. Just Newsnight in my opinion.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    TGOHF666 said:

    ydoethur said:

    I'm absolutely gutted for my daughter. Just received an email from her school saying that next week's reopening has been cancelled on the advice of the County Council. Attached was a letter from the County Council to the school advising all schools in the County remain closed.

    She's been really struggling last couple of weeks with her mental health, missing her friends and has been counting down the days, like to Christmas, to being able to see her friends again.

    The reopening had been confirmed and everything. To make matters worse and what makes me angry is they'd come up with plans on how the school would be different and had advised us to talk to her about how the school would be different to what she is used to - which we had done.

    To say there was no schooling is one thing. To promise she can come back, talk to her and get her excited about it, then rip it away from her once more. I'm furious about this.

    Very sorry to hear this PhilIp. Did they say why they had given this advice?
    They believe only 3 of the 5 government tests have been met. Don't believe Test & Trace is ready, and consequentially don't believe that there won't be a second peak.

    Taken from the document:

    "Locally, we are currently able to meet the requirements of the first three tests; however, we do not meet the requirements for the final two tests. The test and trace programme is not at a state of readiness to respond to Covid-19 community setting outbreaks in a timely manner, which poses a risk to school environments.

    Furthermore, we are not confident that adjustments to the current measures of the lockdown policy will not risk a second peak of infections locally. Consequently, our advice to schools is to not re-open to more pupils on June 1st, but to continue with their current support systems that are in place. The safety and wellbeing of children, their families, and school staff outweigh the benefits of opening schools of 1st June"
    Sounds fair enough - if they haven't got Test & Trace up to speed yet (does anyone?). The second point is a bit more oblique - it reads as a criticism of government policy.
    Starts tomorrow - Hancock confirmed tonight in the briefing.
    All elements of it?
    Watch the briefing - Hancock said in IoW trials , calls from a human to tell people about isolation were more effective.

    Given most of the positive tests identified tomorrow will be in hospital and care homes the app is a small cog.
  • Johnson will be glad the muppets at the BBC have taken the heat off of him for a while.

    Of course, the worst is still yet to come. There is nobody I trust less to deal with the crisis than Boris Johnson.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413

    ydoethur said:

    I'm absolutely gutted for my daughter. Just received an email from her school saying that next week's reopening has been cancelled on the advice of the County Council. Attached was a letter from the County Council to the school advising all schools in the County remain closed.

    She's been really struggling last couple of weeks with her mental health, missing her friends and has been counting down the days, like to Christmas, to being able to see her friends again.

    The reopening had been confirmed and everything. To make matters worse and what makes me angry is they'd come up with plans on how the school would be different and had advised us to talk to her about how the school would be different to what she is used to - which we had done.

    To say there was no schooling is one thing. To promise she can come back, talk to her and get her excited about it, then rip it away from her once more. I'm furious about this.

    Very sorry to hear this PhilIp. Did they say why they had given this advice?
    They believe only 3 of the 5 government tests have been met. Don't believe Test & Trace is ready, and consequentially don't believe that there won't be a second peak.

    Taken from the document:

    "Locally, we are currently able to meet the requirements of the first three tests; however, we do not meet the requirements for the final two tests. The test and trace programme is not at a state of readiness to respond to Covid-19 community setting outbreaks in a timely manner, which poses a risk to school environments.

    Furthermore, we are not confident that adjustments to the current measures of the lockdown policy will not risk a second peak of infections locally. Consequently, our advice to schools is to not re-open to more pupils on June 1st, but to continue with their current support systems that are in place. The safety and wellbeing of children, their families, and school staff outweigh the benefits of opening schools of 1st June"
    Sounds fair enough - if they haven't got Test & Trace up to speed yet (does anyone?). The second point is a bit more oblique - it reads as a criticism of government policy.
    The second point is not necessarily oblique. There is awareness up North that we are a few weeks behind London.
    There is a lack of confidence decisions made in London aren't for the benefit of the capital. This is not a Labour/Tory split particularly.
    May I add my best wishes to Mr Thompson's daughter. This can't be easy in any way.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    Scott_xP said:

    We’ve reached the point where the only way to understand the state the country is in is to realise that it has become a banana republic.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/27/boris-johnson-showman-out-of-his-depth-john-crace

    There's a difference between living in place which may well be crappily governed, and a banana republic/monarchy. You don't need to be a fan of the present administration to think we should keep a distance between them, otherwise it really limits how we'd describe any further deterioration. See also used of 'failed/pariah state'.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    Johnson will be glad the muppets at the BBC have taken the heat off of him for a while.

    Of course, the worst is still yet to come. There is nobody I trust less to deal with the crisis than Boris Johnson.

    How disappointed will you be if there isn’t a second wave of deaths ?
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    JonathanD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    What a fucking disaster this all is. You couldn't make it up. The Chief Modeller and the Lord High Chief Everything both smash the rules to pieces for their own egotistic ends then they are asking the rest of us to keep carrying on and do our duty.

    A tracking app is being developed that will probably never see the light of day because ministers could not bear the idea of using a basic API that other countries were using.

    Meanwhile, we were told a carefully staged set of steps to unlock gradually and slowly, constantly looking at R and unwinding if necessary, has become Announce That X is to Open within days on an hourly basis. Anything, anything to divert from one of the worst examples of elite hypocrisy in modern history.



    Any hardcore europhile should be pushing for a crash out WTO Brexit this December. The mess this government would make of it would have us back in the EU and the euro by the end of 2021. In the middle of it all we'd probably find Cummings fleeing the country to his French chateaux for good measure.
    But I am pushing for a WTO Brexit....
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    TGOHF666 said:

    You don’t get it - it’s about reducing the R - not catching every case and every contact.

    That whooshing sound was the point flying over your head.

    I am not saying the concept doesn't work. I am saying the Governments implementation of it doesn't work.

    Read the thread of all the people working on it who say it isn't ready, and read the newspaper article about the fact it's not ready.

    It doesn't work
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    Johnson will be glad the muppets at the BBC have taken the heat off of him for a while.

    Of course, the worst is still yet to come. There is nobody I trust less to deal with the crisis than Boris Johnson.

    All I can say is thank goodness Jeremy Corbyn isn't PM. Or Emily Maitlis :smiley:

    Night all
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002

    So is it voluntary or must we?

    Yes
This discussion has been closed.