The temperature in the room dropped 15 degrees while reading that.
There is no escaping the fact that Johnson really isn't up to the job. If he reads that letter and doesn't have to go and have a long hard look at himself, nothing else will make him. Feck knows how the country is going to get over this with him in charge.
A journalist could do worse than read that out at this afternoon's press conference and ask for a comment from the minister.
Can’t believe they made Scott set his alarm AGAIN on a Bank Holiday to post tweets in a doomed cause.
Tough break Scott.
What doomed cause is this? I'm genuinely baffled by that term!
To get Dom - in revenge for Brexit.
That’s all this is about - in the end.
Bollocks.
Any person with a half a brain cell knows what this is about, to deny it is childish.
Tom Harwood just gave the true account of what is happening
Do Hartley Brewer, Dale and Montgomery have half a brain cell?
Personally I think the whole thing is a disaster that has been made much worse by the way the Tories have handled it. The press conference was abysmal, I agree with Big G that Boris seems to be a shadow of his former self and I would be surprised if he clings on much past the end of the year.
But throughout this whole pandemic the media are after a gotcha moment, they are determined to bring Johnson down and have an EU friendly Tory leader that will extend the transition period. They've only got a few weeks to do it and this is the final push.
From the little I know of Cummings he seems a confrontational type with little regard for anyone else, in normal circumstances I would agree that he should go but in this case I hope he stays, just to piss off the media
Complete rubbish this has nothing to do with the EU you are deluded.
I would agree this has nothing to do with the EU, but it has everything to do with a Remain frenzied media that are desperate to keep us in it.
Let's see how this pans out before you decide if I am deluded
Cummings' playbook is to use the irrational opposition of Remainers to get Brexiteers to line up behind him even as he sells them out. If we don't extend transition, expect a deal that is barely distinguishable from the status quo.
Mr. DHSS, I don't know about the Ali situation, but Kinnock was delivering food/medicine to his elderly parents which I believe was specifically permitted under the guidance/law.
I appreciate that, but that is just about as plausable as Cummings excuse. That is, not very plausable at all.
Do we really believe that he made a 400 mile round trip to deliver food and medicine, when there are volunteer teams that do that, not to mention any neighbours. Luckily it was a coincidence that it just happened to be his Dad's birthday, so after driving 200 miles to deliver food and medicine he was able to sit in the front garden and have a bit of birthday cake with him.
When you think about it his excuse (while technically permitted) is worse than that of Cummings
There are still those who are following the chain of logic of:
1: There is a controversy involving Cummings 2: Cummings was the architect of Leave 3: Ergo it’s all a conspiracy by Remainers 4: Hold the line.
The possibility that there might actually be a non-Brexit related controversy involving Cummings hasn’t yet penetrated. That the Mail, plus many prominent Brexiteers have lambasted him over this might be a clue that, you know, this is about something he’s actually done - would require a big shift in outlook.
I swear if Cummings was to shoot someone in the street shouting "I'm glad I Domminic Cummings kill him" there would be people on here posting "prosecuting Dominic Cummings would just be giving in to the left wing anti-Brexit hate mob"
Why haven't they gone after Stephen Kinnock with the same zeal? Or Tahir Ali?
Perhaps because:
1) neither was at the centre of government 2) neither was carrying the deadly viruses with them on their visit.
Cummings was literally one of the key architects of the whole lockdown policy and its communication.
So you`d think he knew the rules.
Will be interesting if we do get a blow-by-blow account of his actions, accompanied by evidence that he checked it was OK first. The fact that he was, it`s said, talked to by police but but not charged, and police guidance gives him cover.
This story could take an unexpected turn yet, though I doubt it because surely Johnson would have made a better defence than yesterday`s abysmal effort.
Kinnock was promoted to the Shadow front bench by Starmer two weeks after his little episode. Starmer said yesterday if he was PM he would sack Cummings, yet not only did he not sack Kinnock he promoted him.
That letter, gut wrenching as it is, is as much a protest against lockdown as it is against Cummings.
I was listening to a leading dentist on the radio talking about the awful privations that some unfortunates have gone through and are still going through because the industry was summarily shut down in panic and has not re-opened.
Lockdown has unleashed a terrible barbarism is shattering our country socially and economically.
I;ve said it consistently and as the evidence mounts I believe it more than ever.
Long lockdown is the worst policy mistake by any British government, ever. By a street.
Long lockdown where the high and the mighty could come and go as they please was the worst policy mistake by any government.
How many government advisors and Cabinet ministers have seen a dentist in last eight weeks?
We should be told.
Some of the stories the dentist guy told are enough to make you weep.
A couple being guided on facetime as they extracted their ten year old's tooth with a pliars.
Despite everything this is the first time the government has got in serious trouble, and it's also the first time they haven't been able to let Cumming manage the story, since he's now the subject of it.
This shows what an excellent operator Cummings is, and how screwed they will be if they get rid of him.
The white heat of the anger will have gone to red or below within a week, in a fortnight it'll no longer lead the media other than the Guardian / Mirror, in a month the average person will move on to new topics - do you remember the news a month ago today (be honest)? - in 6 months the economic recovery from coronavirus will crowd out all other news as we struggle to recover from depression, in 4 years the general election will be fought based on what's actually happening then.
Two years from now Scott and ICHB will still be re-tweeting 24/7 about it though
I don't know if you remember the mid 90's. From about 1993, the Major government did a pretty reasonable job of governing, hence the Golden Economic Legacy. It wasn't pretty politically, but it was decent governance. The 1997 manifesto was full of stuff to tickle Tory tummies. And it did them precisely zero good in the election. One you've blown trust, you're a zombie. You might be moving, but you're dead.
The white heat of the anger will have gone to red or below within a week, in a fortnight it'll no longer lead the media other than the Guardian / Mirror, in a month the average person will move on to new topics - do you remember the news a month ago today (be honest)? - in 6 months the economic recovery from coronavirus will crowd out all other news as we struggle to recover from depression, in 4 years the general election will be fought based on what's actually happening then.
Two years from now Scott and ICHB will still be re-tweeting 24/7 about it though
No, you're simply wrong. I know a lot of members who have or are considering resigning over this. If the party membership can't accept it then the voters definitely can't. This is going to run and run. If Boris is still PM in 2024 I could see a Blair style victory for Starmer, Boris has lot his one reason to vote for him - he is a posho everyman who calls it and says it like it is.
Imagine for a minute the party roles were reversed and this was Blair holding onto Ali Campbell after he'd done exactly what Dom has done with Boris as LOTO. He'd tell it how it is and say it can't be one rule from us and another for them. Boris would place himself in with the plebs, he's done it successfully for his whole political career. Until now. If Boris can no longer see what it means to be a pleb and he's become so isolated from ordinary people then he's of no use as a leader because he won't win the next election.
Tbh, the same goes for Dom as well. He's always cast himself into the role as defender of the downtrodden, but now he's doing the treading and damaging those people he claims to represent (and has done well for a long time).
If you think this blows over without anygthig changing then you're even denser than you appear.
I’m unusual in that I can’t get exercised by the Cummings stuff. Tens of thousands of people have broken the lockdown rules, which are completely unsustainable. Why should he be any different?
What I am concerned about is the utter chaos at the heart of government. This is the administration that is supposed to be leading us out of this thing. They look like complete amateurs - absolute clowns.
It doesn’t bode well. We have a clueless PM leading a cabinet of idiots in a time of national crisis.
If it was just lockdown rules, an apology would probably be fine.
Its that its quarantine! He had/claims to have had/his wife had/claims to have had covid symptoms and people he was close to had tested positive. Spreading the deadly virus 350 miles up and down the country is not just breaking lockdown.
Despite everything this is the first time the government has got in serious trouble, and it's also the first time they haven't been able to let Cumming manage the story, since he's now the subject of it.
This shows what an excellent operator Cummings is, and how screwed they will be if they get rid of him.
I think that's right. Makes it worse for the Gov't though. Johnson too incompetent to run the country without Cummings.
One MP in a Red Wall seat contacted the Guardian’s northern editor, Helen Pidd, to say: “I think he should go. It’s cut through. Massively. He’s a liability.”
The MP said they had received over 100 angry emails about Cummings, with the “non-lefties” expressing the same sentiment as Monday’s Daily Mail front page: “What planet are they on?”
You know what will piss off the frothers even more? The Tories should circulate a list of Labour MPs and officials who've broken the lockdown - and you can bet there will be some - and ask Starmer if he's going to immediately expel them from the party, since the silly hypocrite has already said he would have fired Cummings.
Why is Stephen Kinnock still a Labour MP, Mr. Starmer?
One rule for Labour, and one for everyone else?
He didn’t break quarantine. Nor did he stay away from his house overnight. Nor did he even enter another dwelling.
Equating Kinnock’s minor infringement of the strict letter of the law with this coach and horses action by Cummings is frankly bonkers. Even Jenrick was far less culpable.
Funny how all the excuses come out when it's not Cummings, isn't it? Where's the absolutist moralizing now?
How about Tahir Ali?
Oh, he's a Labour MP and not Cummings, so it's all right, of course.
Why do you think it is just anti Tories posting this stuff. It isn't. It really isn't.
You just ignored the points ydoethur made as to why it wasn't so serious. You also ignored the fact that Jenrick is a Tory so you can't claim it is political bias.
Having a bit of a wobble, he could be gone this week.
Getting rid of Cummings won't be enough anymore..
No, the damage has been done. Just like Black Wednesday. The fact that following that 24 hour fiasco we actually paved the way for our outstanding economic success was totally lost by the spectacle of Lamont and Major fumbling and obfuscating on the steps of the Treasury and Downing St. It was astonishing.
So is this.
Good point by Ydoethur below about the difference in majorities although some say it's better to have a small majority than a larger one. I anticipate a cascade of rebellions ahead on votes in the HoC.
Blair suffered far more, far larger rebellions than Major. As early as 1997, 60 backbenchers rebelled over welfare changes. More Labour backbenchers rebelled over top up fees than over Iraq.
He survived ten years and three election victories.
He remained popular with the voters. Id be amazed if Johnson is not net negative now.
So was Major. Albeit less popular than Blair by the finish.
Bluntly, I’ve never understood what people see in Johnson but then, he was only up against Corbyn.
I voted for Corbyn - as he was the least worst option, perhaps now people can see why,
I’m afraid I still have to disagree. However awful Johnson and Cummings are, Corbyn and Milne would have been a thousand times worse.
Difficult to imagine right now, but given both of them were even stupider than J and C, and even more racist, lazy, authoritarian and arrogant, I’m confident they would have found even more spectacular ways to screw things up. Probably, for a start, they would have taken advantage of the crisis to nationalise most of the major businesses and the rented housing sector, sending the economy into a prolonged death spiral from which no exit could be found.
I voted for none of the three candidates on offer here. Instead, I tore up my ballot paper. I still think I made the right decision.
I agree with you, Doc, about Corbyn and Milne, but that's not really the point. That's like defending Blair on Iraq because the opposition was even more gung-ho on his policy (which it was.)
The Government makes the calls and takes the responsibility if it calls it wrong. Doesn't matter what the hypothetical alternative crew might have done.
That letter, gut wrenching as it is, is as much a protest against lockdown as it is against Cummings.
I was listening to a leading dentist on the radio talking about the awful privations that some unfortunates have gone through and are still going through because the industry was summarily shut down in panic and has not re-opened.
Lockdown has unleashed a terrible barbarism is shattering our country socially and economically.
I;ve said it consistently and as the evidence mounts I believe it more than ever.
Long lockdown is the worst policy mistake by any British government, ever. By a street.
Long lockdown where the high and the mighty could come and go as they please was the worst policy mistake by any government.
How many government advisors and Cabinet ministers have seen a dentist in last eight weeks?
We should be told.
Very few. Dentists are closed* as they need PPE suitable for Aerosol Generating Procedures. It is not like garden centres.
I’m unusual in that I can’t get exercised by the Cummings stuff. Tens of thousands of people have broken the lockdown rules, which are completely unsustainable. Why should he be any different?
What I am concerned about is the utter chaos at the heart of government. This is the administration that is supposed to be leading us out of this thing. They look like complete amateurs - absolute clowns.
It doesn’t bode well. We have a clueless PM leading a cabinet of idiots in a time of national crisis.
If it was just lockdown rules, an apology would probably be fine.
Its that its quarantine! He had/claims to have had/his wife had/claims to have had covid symptoms and people he was close to had tested positive. Spreading the deadly virus 350 miles up and down the country is not just breaking lockdown.
As with many things in politics, it's not the crime but the cover up and special pleading that make it so toxic.
The white heat of the anger will have gone to red or below within a week, in a fortnight it'll no longer lead the media other than the Guardian / Mirror, in a month the average person will move on to new topics - do you remember the news a month ago today (be honest)? - in 6 months the economic recovery from coronavirus will crowd out all other news as we struggle to recover from depression, in 4 years the general election will be fought based on what's actually happening then.
Two years from now Scott and ICHB will still be re-tweeting 24/7 about it though
No, you're simply wrong. I know a lot of members who have or are considering resigning over this. If the party membership can't accept it then the voters definitely can't. This is going to run and run. If Boris is still PM in 2024 I could see a Blair style victory for Starmer, Boris has lot his one reason to vote for him - he is a posho everyman who calls it and says it like it is.
Imagine for a minute the party roles were reversed and this was Blair holding onto Ali Campbell after he'd done exactly what Dom has done with Boris as LOTO. He'd tell it how it is and say it can't be one rule from us and another for them. Boris would place himself in with the plebs, he's done it successfully for his whole political career. Until now. If Boris can no longer see what it means to be a pleb and he's become so isolated from ordinary people then he's of no use as a leader because he won't win the next election.
Tbh, the same goes for Dom as well. He's always cast himself into the role as defender of the downtrodden, but now he's doing the treading and damaging those people he claims to represent (and has done well for a long time).
If you think this blows over without anygthig changing then you're even denser than you appear.
And that's before people are hit by the mother of all economic recessions.
There's definitely criticism to be made of the government and their handling of all this, but does Alastair "45 minutes" Campbell seriously think he's the right one to be making it?
Reflecting on last night's statement by Boris(where he lost my support) it was self evident that when he started spreaking his breathing was laboured and he gave me the impression he just did not have the energy to make a sensible argument, addressing the various issues, and in fairness referring the whole matter to the cabinet secretary
He has made a terrible error of judgment that has undermined his authority, embarrassed many of us, and he is a very diminished political figure this morning
And let me make this clear this has nothing to do with brexit, it has all to do with supporting millions of suffering people trying to follow HMG advice and the perception of so many that this is just wrong
Even if Boris sacks him, and I very much doubt he will, last night will be seen, dare I say it, as his'poll tax' moment and I hope he decides due to his obvious health issues to stand down and spend time with Carrie and his young son
On a personal note I am actually quite sorry for him and I know many of his fiercest critics will be celebrating his fall from grace, but for me I hold no bitterness, just sadness.
And I still remain a member of the party and hope that wiser heads will take control as we move forward and into the economic armaggedon we are all facing over the years to come
One MP in a Red Wall seat contacted the Guardian’s northern editor, Helen Pidd, to say: “I think he should go. It’s cut through. Massively. He’s a liability.”
The MP said they had received over 100 angry emails about Cummings, with the “non-lefties” expressing the same sentiment as Monday’s Daily Mail front page: “What planet are they on?”
It's too late, until 17:00 yesterday it was enough that Cummings went. At 17:02 it became essential that Boris went as well - his reduced intellectual capacity and tiredness become obvious for all to see.
There are still those who are following the chain of logic of:
1: There is a controversy involving Cummings 2: Cummings was the architect of Leave 3: Ergo it’s all a conspiracy by Remainers 4: Hold the line.
The possibility that there might actually be a non-Brexit related controversy involving Cummings hasn’t yet penetrated. That the Mail, plus many prominent Brexiteers have lambasted him over this might be a clue that, you know, this is about something he’s actually done - would require a big shift in outlook.
I swear if Cummings was to shoot someone in the street shouting "I'm glad I Domminic Cummings kill him" there would be people on here posting "prosecuting Dominic Cummings would just be giving in to the left wing anti-Brexit hate mob"
Why haven't they gone after Stephen Kinnock with the same zeal? Or Tahir Ali?
Perhaps because:
1) neither was at the centre of government 2) neither was carrying the deadly viruses with them on their visit.
Cummings was literally one of the key architects of the whole lockdown policy and its communication.
So you`d think he knew the rules.
Will be interesting if we do get a blow-by-blow account of his actions, accompanied by evidence that he checked it was OK first. The fact that he was, it`s said, talked to by police but but not charged, and police guidance gives him cover.
This story could take an unexpected turn yet, though I doubt it because surely Johnson would have made a better defence than yesterday`s abysmal effort.
Kinnock was promoted to the Shadow front bench by Starmer two weeks after his little episode. Starmer said yesterday if he was PM he would sack Cummings, yet not only did he not sack Kinnock he promoted him.
Double standards much?
Could you describe how they were equaivalent?
I could but if you cannot see it for yourself then there is little point
You know what will piss off the frothers even more? The Tories should circulate a list of Labour MPs and officials who've broken the lockdown - and you can bet there will be some - and ask Starmer if he's going to immediately expel them from the party, since the silly hypocrite has already said he would have fired Cummings.
Why is Stephen Kinnock still a Labour MP, Mr. Starmer?
One rule for Labour, and one for everyone else?
He didn’t break quarantine. Nor did he stay away from his house overnight. Nor did he even enter another dwelling.
Equating Kinnock’s minor infringement of the strict letter of the law with this coach and horses action by Cummings is frankly bonkers. Even Jenrick was far less culpable.
Funny how all the excuses come out when it's not Cummings, isn't it? Where's the absolutist moralizing now?
How about Tahir Ali?
Oh, he's a Labour MP and not Cummings, so it's all right, of course.
Well, now you’re showing your true colours. Let’s make it easy.
CUMMINGS DROVE A SICK PERSON 262 MILES ACROSS ENGLAND TO STAY IN A SECOND HOUSE WHEN GOVERNMENT RULES WERE TO STAY AT HOME. HE DID THIS BECAUSE HE WANTED TO STAY IN A HOUSE WITH A GARDEN. HE ALSO DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THE LAW.
KINNOCK WENT TO HIS FATHER’S HOUSE FOR A SHORT CHAT. HE STAYED IN THE GARDEN. HE DID NOT STAY AWAY OVERNIGHT. HE WAS NOT SHOWING SYMPTOMS.
NO REASONABLE OR INTELLIGENT PERSON WOULD DRAW A PARALLEL BETWEEN THE TWO.
Is that clear enough? Do you and other apologists for this loathsome scumbag who has broken every rule in the book need it in words of one syllable?
Your tribalism is blinding you to what has happened, to the extent you are indulging in utterly ridiculous whataboutery. And that is why this is cutting through and making you hated.
You want credibility? He and Johnson have to go. To be blunt, they should never have been there to start with. This sort of disaster was always on the cards given how fundamentally stupid and arrogant they both are.
Incidentally I don’t speak as any supporter of Kinnock. But your attempts to draw parallels are embarrassing you.
Despite everything this is the first time the government has got in serious trouble, and it's also the first time they haven't been able to let Cumming manage the story, since he's now the subject of it.
This shows what an excellent operator Cummings is, and how screwed they will be if they get rid of him.
Indeed. I imagine he was given one hell of a shouting at by the PM yesterday, but Johnson knows that DC is too important to his whole project to let him go - even if it means a week more of today's headlines.
There are still those who are following the chain of logic of:
1: There is a controversy involving Cummings 2: Cummings was the architect of Leave 3: Ergo it’s all a conspiracy by Remainers 4: Hold the line.
The possibility that there might actually be a non-Brexit related controversy involving Cummings hasn’t yet penetrated. That the Mail, plus many prominent Brexiteers have lambasted him over this might be a clue that, you know, this is about something he’s actually done - would require a big shift in outlook.
I swear if Cummings was to shoot someone in the street shouting "I'm glad I Domminic Cummings kill him" there would be people on here posting "prosecuting Dominic Cummings would just be giving in to the left wing anti-Brexit hate mob"
Why haven't they gone after Stephen Kinnock with the same zeal? Or Tahir Ali?
Perhaps because:
1) neither was at the centre of government 2) neither was carrying the deadly viruses with them on their visit.
Cummings was literally one of the key architects of the whole lockdown policy and its communication.
So you`d think he knew the rules.
Will be interesting if we do get a blow-by-blow account of his actions, accompanied by evidence that he checked it was OK first. The fact that he was, it`s said, talked to by police but but not charged, and police guidance gives him cover.
This story could take an unexpected turn yet, though I doubt it because surely Johnson would have made a better defence than yesterday`s abysmal effort.
You know what will piss off the frothers even more? The Tories should circulate a list of Labour MPs and officials who've broken the lockdown - and you can bet there will be some - and ask Starmer if he's going to immediately expel them from the party, since the silly hypocrite has already said he would have fired Cummings.
Why is Stephen Kinnock still a Labour MP, Mr. Starmer? Why is Tahir Ali still a Labour MP, Mr. Starmer?
One rule for Labour, and one for everyone else?
I appreciate that you are being deliberately obtuse, but Cummings didn't breech Lockdown, he breeched Quarantine while actively viral.
Big difference, particularly as the government has self isolation in Quarantine as a core part of relaxing lockdown.
There are still those who are following the chain of logic of:
1: There is a controversy involving Cummings 2: Cummings was the architect of Leave 3: Ergo it’s all a conspiracy by Remainers 4: Hold the line.
The possibility that there might actually be a non-Brexit related controversy involving Cummings hasn’t yet penetrated. That the Mail, plus many prominent Brexiteers have lambasted him over this might be a clue that, you know, this is about something he’s actually done - would require a big shift in outlook.
I swear if Cummings was to shoot someone in the street shouting "I'm glad I Domminic Cummings kill him" there would be people on here posting "prosecuting Dominic Cummings would just be giving in to the left wing anti-Brexit hate mob"
Why haven't they gone after Stephen Kinnock with the same zeal? Or Tahir Ali?
Perhaps because:
1) neither was at the centre of government 2) neither was carrying the deadly viruses with them on their visit.
Cummings was literally one of the key architects of the whole lockdown policy and its communication.
So you`d think he knew the rules.
Will be interesting if we do get a blow-by-blow account of his actions, accompanied by evidence that he checked it was OK first. The fact that he was, it`s said, talked to by police but but not charged, and police guidance gives him cover.
This story could take an unexpected turn yet, though I doubt it because surely Johnson would have made a better defence than yesterday`s abysmal effort.
Kinnock was promoted to the Shadow front bench by Starmer two weeks after his little episode. Starmer said yesterday if he was PM he would sack Cummings, yet not only did he not sack Kinnock he promoted him.
Double standards much?
Could you describe how they were equaivalent?
I could but if you cannot see it for yourself then there is little point
If you look as JK Rowling's tweet what you really see is emptiness behind what the British people have been asked to do and the reasons they have been asked to do it.
It was never worth it then and it isn;t worth it now.
There are reasons why no British government ever shut down the country's economy and house arrested its healthy citizens. Reasons of humanity, liberty, freedom and civilisation.
We will see Government approval fall further when they have to take "tough" decisions about how to pay for all of this.
Getting everyone to lock down, whilst paying most of their salaries to do so, was always the easy bit.
The next year or more is going to be horrendous for governments everywhere, with a major global recession and huge borrowing to pay for.
Meanwhile, the U.K. press pack are going to spend the next week worrying about the minutiae of one guy’s calendar a couple of months ago, more interested in getting their scalp than actually holding the government to account.
They won't there will be more meatier stories to focus on.
But on quiet news days it's the perfect story to bring up as I suspect a new spin will sell a lot of papers for the next couple of years.
Oh indeed, but meanwhile we still have an app that doesn’t work and can’t be made to work - which is a much more serious actual issue.
You know that, I know that, most people will now just refuse to download because well, why should I?
Can’t believe they made Scott set his alarm AGAIN on a Bank Holiday to post tweets in a doomed cause.
Tough break Scott.
What doomed cause is this? I'm genuinely baffled by that term!
To get Dom - in revenge for Brexit.
That’s all this is about - in the end.
Bollocks.
Any person with a half a brain cell knows what this is about, to deny it is childish.
Tom Harwood just gave the true account of what is happening
Do Hartley Brewer, Dale and Montgomery have half a brain cell?
Personally I think the whole thing is a disaster that has been made much worse by the way the Tories have handled it. The press conference was abysmal, I agree with Big G that Boris seems to be a shadow of his former self and I would be surprised if he clings on much past the end of the year.
But throughout this whole pandemic the media are after a gotcha moment, they are determined to bring Johnson down and have an EU friendly Tory leader that will extend the transition period. They've only got a few weeks to do it and this is the final push.
From the little I know of Cummings he seems a confrontational type with little regard for anyone else, in normal circumstances I would agree that he should go but in this case I hope he stays, just to piss off the media
Complete rubbish this has nothing to do with the EU you are deluded.
I would agree this has nothing to do with the EU, but it has everything to do with a Remain frenzied media that are desperate to keep us in it.
Let's see how this pans out before you decide if I am deluded
Still fighting the war you won? This is about the handling of the pandemic, it has nothing to do with former Remainers or Leavers.
For what it is worth, I am a former Remainer who thought Cummings should stay as a snub to the baying press pack. I couldn't in my wildest nightmares have imagined Boris could make such a horlicks of keeping Cummings on board
It's not won yet though, I can see Hunt being installed within the next few weeks and extending the transition period by a couple of years.
That letter, gut wrenching as it is, is as much a protest against lockdown as it is against Cummings.
I was listening to a leading dentist on the radio talking about the awful privations that some unfortunates have gone through and are still going through because the industry was summarily shut down in panic and has not re-opened.
Lockdown has unleashed a terrible barbarism is shattering our country socially and economically.
I;ve said it consistently and as the evidence mounts I believe it more than ever.
Long lockdown is the worst policy mistake by any British government, ever. By a street.
Long lockdown where the high and the mighty could come and go as they please was the worst policy mistake by any government.
How many government advisors and Cabinet ministers have seen a dentist in last eight weeks?
We should be told.
Very few. Dentists are closed* as they need PPE suitable for Aerosol Generating Procedures. It is not like garden centres.
* There are a few equipped for emergency work.
Mrs DA's surgery has been shut since March 23rd and she hasn't seen a single patient since then.
You know what will piss off the frothers even more? The Tories should circulate a list of Labour MPs and officials who've broken the lockdown - and you can bet there will be some - and ask Starmer if he's going to immediately expel them from the party, since the silly hypocrite has already said he would have fired Cummings.
Why is Stephen Kinnock still a Labour MP, Mr. Starmer? Why is Tahir Ali still a Labour MP, Mr. Starmer?
One rule for Labour, and one for everyone else?
This is getting desperate. AFAIK Kinnock was delivering food and, AIUI, has made no secret of what he did. Not sure about Ali.
Quite a few Tory MPs have still said precisely nothing about all this. This includes my own MP, just elected for the first time in a solid northern Tory seat.
The white heat of the anger will have gone to red or below within a week, in a fortnight it'll no longer lead the media other than the Guardian / Mirror, in a month the average person will move on to new topics - do you remember the news a month ago today (be honest)? - in 6 months the economic recovery from coronavirus will crowd out all other news as we struggle to recover from depression, in 4 years the general election will be fought based on what's actually happening then.
Two years from now Scott and ICHB will still be re-tweeting 24/7 about it though
No, you're simply wrong. I know a lot of members who have or are considering resigning over this. If the party membership can't accept it then the voters definitely can't. This is going to run and run. If Boris is still PM in 2024 I could see a Blair style victory for Starmer, Boris has lot his one reason to vote for him - he is a posho everyman who calls it and says it like it is.
Imagine for a minute the party roles were reversed and this was Blair holding onto Ali Campbell after he'd done exactly what Dom has done with Boris as LOTO. He'd tell it how it is and say it can't be one rule from us and another for them. Boris would place himself in with the plebs, he's done it successfully for his whole political career. Until now. If Boris can no longer see what it means to be a pleb and he's become so isolated from ordinary people then he's of no use as a leader because he won't win the next election.
Tbh, the same goes for Dom as well. He's always cast himself into the role as defender of the downtrodden, but now he's doing the treading and damaging those people he claims to represent (and has done well for a long time).
If you think this blows over without anygthig changing then you're even denser than you appear.
Is this the PR stance I would have chosen in an ideal world? Nope. Do I have a sense of perspective that people are not going to smoulder about this for years? Yes. I've also never been a party member, for all the relevance that has.
Think back to all the major scandals that burned hot and ultimately didn't change anything - except it's hard to do that because one has naturally forgotten most of them. A million people marched against Blair and he just shrugged it off. Are a million people going to march against Cummings?
Maybe I'm weird, but when it comes to my political and social attitudes I simply don't bend in the wind with a single news event, however good or bad. And let's face it, what Cummings did merits what, a £30 fine, if that? And suddenly we're in a nuclear war over it? No thanks.
Reflecting on last night's statement by Boris(where he lost my support) it was self evident that when he started spreaking his breathing was laboured and he gave me the impression he just did not have the energy to make a sensible argument, addressing the various issues, and in fairness referring the whole matter to the cabinet secretary
He has made a terrible error of judgment that has undermined his authority, embarrassed many of us, and he is a very diminished political figure this morning
And let me make this clear this has nothing to do with brexit, it has all to do with supporting millions of suffering people trying to follow HMG advice and the perception of so many that this is just wrong
Even if Boris sacks him, and I very much doubt he will, last night will be seen, dare I say it, as his'poll tax' moment and I hope he decides due to his obvious health issues to stand down and spend time with Carrie and his young son
On a personal note I am actually quite sorry for him and I know many of his fiercest critics will be celebrating his fall from grace, but for me I hold no bitterness, just sadness.
And I still remain a member of the party and hope that wiser heads will take control as we move forward and into the economic armaggedon we are all facing over the years to come
And the party needs Boris and Cummings to be the fall guys for that - when it becomes obvious in July / September.
That letter, gut wrenching as it is, is as much a protest against lockdown as it is against Cummings.
I was listening to a leading dentist on the radio talking about the awful privations that some unfortunates have gone through and are still going through because the industry was summarily shut down in panic and has not re-opened.
Lockdown has unleashed a terrible barbarism is shattering our country socially and economically.
I;ve said it consistently and as the evidence mounts I believe it more than ever.
Long lockdown is the worst policy mistake by any British government, ever. By a street.
Long lockdown where the high and the mighty could come and go as they please was the worst policy mistake by any government.
How many government advisors and Cabinet ministers have seen a dentist in last eight weeks?
We should be told.
Very few. Dentists are closed* as they need PPE suitable for Aerosol Generating Procedures. It is not like garden centres.
* There are a few equipped for emergency work.
The senior dentist guy reckoned many now have the equipment .
What do you think about the desperate suffering and the wave of medieval style treatments those barbaric rules have unleashed?
Are you telling me they are worth it? Even in the questionable circumstance that they make any difference whatsoever.
There's definitely criticism to be made of the government and their handling of all this, but does Alastair "45 minutes" Campbell seriously think he's the right one to be making it?
He's probably one of many people making it and it's nice to have a template to work from.
Mr. DHSS, I don't know about the Ali situation, but Kinnock was delivering food/medicine to his elderly parents which I believe was specifically permitted under the guidance/law.
I appreciate that, but that is just about as plausable as Cummings excuse. That is, not very plausable at all.
Do we really believe that he made a 400 mile round trip to deliver food and medicine, when there are volunteer teams that do that, not to mention any neighbours.
No, because he didn’t. He lives in London. (Also, South Wales is not 200 miles from London.)
Honestly, the attempts here to draw an equivalence are making me wonder if the entirety of the Tory loyalists have been placed under mass hypnosis.
Reflecting on last night's statement by Boris(where he lost my support) it was self evident that when he started spreaking his breathing was laboured and he gave me the impression he just did not have the energy to make a sensible argument, addressing the various issues, and in fairness referring the whole matter to the cabinet secretary
He has made a terrible error of judgment that has undermined his authority, embarrassed many of us, and he is a very diminished political figure this morning
And let me make this clear this has nothing to do with brexit, it has all to do with supporting millions of suffering people trying to follow HMG advice and the perception of so many that this is just wrong
Even if Boris sacks him, and I very much doubt he will, last night will be seen, dare I say it, as his'poll tax' moment and I hope he decides due to his obvious health issues to stand down and spend time with Carrie and his young son
On a personal note I am actually quite sorry for him and I know many of his fiercest critics will be celebrating his fall from grace, but for me I hold no bitterness, just sadness.
And I still remain a member of the party and hope that wiser heads will take control as we move forward and into the economic armaggedon we are all facing over the years to come
There are still those who are following the chain of logic of:
1: There is a controversy involving Cummings 2: Cummings was the architect of Leave 3: Ergo it’s all a conspiracy by Remainers 4: Hold the line.
The possibility that there might actually be a non-Brexit related controversy involving Cummings hasn’t yet penetrated. That the Mail, plus many prominent Brexiteers have lambasted him over this might be a clue that, you know, this is about something he’s actually done - would require a big shift in outlook.
I swear if Cummings was to shoot someone in the street shouting "I'm glad I Domminic Cummings kill him" there would be people on here posting "prosecuting Dominic Cummings would just be giving in to the left wing anti-Brexit hate mob"
Why haven't they gone after Stephen Kinnock with the same zeal? Or Tahir Ali?
Perhaps because:
1) neither was at the centre of government 2) neither was carrying the deadly viruses with them on their visit.
Cummings was literally one of the key architects of the whole lockdown policy and its communication.
So you`d think he knew the rules.
Will be interesting if we do get a blow-by-blow account of his actions, accompanied by evidence that he checked it was OK first. The fact that he was, it`s said, talked to by police but but not charged, and police guidance gives him cover.
This story could take an unexpected turn yet, though I doubt it because surely Johnson would have made a better defence than yesterday`s abysmal effort.
You know what will piss off the frothers even more? The Tories should circulate a list of Labour MPs and officials who've broken the lockdown - and you can bet there will be some - and ask Starmer if he's going to immediately expel them from the party, since the silly hypocrite has already said he would have fired Cummings.
Why is Stephen Kinnock still a Labour MP, Mr. Starmer? Why is Tahir Ali still a Labour MP, Mr. Starmer?
One rule for Labour, and one for everyone else?
This is getting desperate. AFAIK Kinnock was delivering food and, AIUI, has made no secret of what he did. Not sure about Ali.
And so once again, when it comes to Labour MPs, the absolutist moralizing goes out the window. I wonder why?
The white heat of the anger will have gone to red or below within a week, in a fortnight it'll no longer lead the media other than the Guardian / Mirror, in a month the average person will move on to new topics - do you remember the news a month ago today (be honest)? - in 6 months the economic recovery from coronavirus will crowd out all other news as we struggle to recover from depression, in 4 years the general election will be fought based on what's actually happening then.
Two years from now Scott and ICHB will still be re-tweeting 24/7 about it though
No, you're simply wrong. I know a lot of members who have or are considering resigning over this. If the party membership can't accept it then the voters definitely can't. This is going to run and run. If Boris is still PM in 2024 I could see a Blair style victory for Starmer, Boris has lot his one reason to vote for him - he is a posho everyman who calls it and says it like it is.
Imagine for a minute the party roles were reversed and this was Blair holding onto Ali Campbell after he'd done exactly what Dom has done with Boris as LOTO. He'd tell it how it is and say it can't be one rule from us and another for them. Boris would place himself in with the plebs, he's done it successfully for his whole political career. Until now. If Boris can no longer see what it means to be a pleb and he's become so isolated from ordinary people then he's of no use as a leader because he won't win the next election.
Tbh, the same goes for Dom as well. He's always cast himself into the role as defender of the downtrodden, but now he's doing the treading and damaging those people he claims to represent (and has done well for a long time).
If you think this blows over without anygthig changing then you're even denser than you appear.
Excellent post.
The daft thing is this could have been dealt with:
Boris: I have met Dominic. I understand the serious family issues that arose and how hard this was and the tough decisions that had to be made. However those decisions are having to be many by many everyday across the country, etc.
Dominic writes a letter to Boris on the same theme and offers his resignation.
Boris does the decent thing accepting the difficult circumstances and understanding that and although a mistake was made under difficult circumstances declines to accept the resignation as getting over the pandemic is more important than this.
There are still those who are following the chain of logic of:
1: There is a controversy involving Cummings 2: Cummings was the architect of Leave 3: Ergo it’s all a conspiracy by Remainers 4: Hold the line.
The possibility that there might actually be a non-Brexit related controversy involving Cummings hasn’t yet penetrated. That the Mail, plus many prominent Brexiteers have lambasted him over this might be a clue that, you know, this is about something he’s actually done - would require a big shift in outlook.
I swear if Cummings was to shoot someone in the street shouting "I'm glad I Domminic Cummings kill him" there would be people on here posting "prosecuting Dominic Cummings would just be giving in to the left wing anti-Brexit hate mob"
Why haven't they gone after Stephen Kinnock with the same zeal? Or Tahir Ali?
Perhaps because:
1) neither was at the centre of government 2) neither was carrying the deadly viruses with them on their visit.
Cummings was literally one of the key architects of the whole lockdown policy and its communication.
So you`d think he knew the rules.
Will be interesting if we do get a blow-by-blow account of his actions, accompanied by evidence that he checked it was OK first. The fact that he was, it`s said, talked to by police but but not charged, and police guidance gives him cover.
This story could take an unexpected turn yet, though I doubt it because surely Johnson would have made a better defence than yesterday`s abysmal effort.
Kinnock was promoted to the Shadow front bench by Starmer two weeks after his little episode. Starmer said yesterday if he was PM he would sack Cummings, yet not only did he not sack Kinnock he promoted him.
Double standards much?
Could you describe how they were equaivalent?
I could but if you cannot see it for yourself then there is little point
The white heat of the anger will have gone to red or below within a week, in a fortnight it'll no longer lead the media other than the Guardian / Mirror, in a month the average person will move on to new topics - do you remember the news a month ago today (be honest)? - in 6 months the economic recovery from coronavirus will crowd out all other news as we struggle to recover from depression, in 4 years the general election will be fought based on what's actually happening then.
Two years from now Scott and ICHB will still be re-tweeting 24/7 about it though
No, you're simply wrong. I know a lot of members who have or are considering resigning over this. If the party membership can't accept it then the voters definitely can't. This is going to run and run. If Boris is still PM in 2024 I could see a Blair style victory for Starmer, Boris has lot his one reason to vote for him - he is a posho everyman who calls it and says it like it is.
Imagine for a minute the party roles were reversed and this was Blair holding onto Ali Campbell after he'd done exactly what Dom has done with Boris as LOTO. He'd tell it how it is and say it can't be one rule from us and another for them. Boris would place himself in with the plebs, he's done it successfully for his whole political career. Until now. If Boris can no longer see what it means to be a pleb and he's become so isolated from ordinary people then he's of no use as a leader because he won't win the next election.
Tbh, the same goes for Dom as well. He's always cast himself into the role as defender of the downtrodden, but now he's doing the treading and damaging those people he claims to represent (and has done well for a long time).
If you think this blows over without anygthig changing then you're even denser than you appear.
Is this the PR stance I would have chosen in an ideal world? Nope. Do I have a sense of perspective that people are not going to smoulder about this for years? Yes. I've also never been a party member, for all the relevance that has.
Think back to all the major scandals that burned hot and ultimately didn't change anything - except it's hard to do that because one has naturally forgotten most of them. A million people marched against Blair and he just shrugged it off. Are a million people going to march against Cummings?
Maybe I'm weird, but when it comes to my political and social attitudes I simply don't bend in the wind with a single news event, however good or bad. And let's face it, what Cummings did merits what, a £30 fine, if that? And suddenly we're in a nuclear war over it? No thanks.
So to repeat my question of last night. Do you think this is a competent administration, and this fuck up the last they will make?
There are still those who are following the chain of logic of:
1: There is a controversy involving Cummings 2: Cummings was the architect of Leave 3: Ergo it’s all a conspiracy by Remainers 4: Hold the line.
The possibility that there might actually be a non-Brexit related controversy involving Cummings hasn’t yet penetrated. That the Mail, plus many prominent Brexiteers have lambasted him over this might be a clue that, you know, this is about something he’s actually done - would require a big shift in outlook.
I swear if Cummings was to shoot someone in the street shouting "I'm glad I Domminic Cummings kill him" there would be people on here posting "prosecuting Dominic Cummings would just be giving in to the left wing anti-Brexit hate mob"
Why haven't they gone after Stephen Kinnock with the same zeal? Or Tahir Ali?
Perhaps because:
1) neither was at the centre of government 2) neither was carrying the deadly viruses with them on their visit.
Cummings was literally one of the key architects of the whole lockdown policy and its communication.
So you`d think he knew the rules.
Will be interesting if we do get a blow-by-blow account of his actions, accompanied by evidence that he checked it was OK first. The fact that he was, it`s said, talked to by police but but not charged, and police guidance gives him cover.
This story could take an unexpected turn yet, though I doubt it because surely Johnson would have made a better defence than yesterday`s abysmal effort.
Despite everything this is the first time the government has got in serious trouble, and it's also the first time they haven't been able to let Cumming manage the story, since he's now the subject of it.
This shows what an excellent operator Cummings is, and how screwed they will be if they get rid of him.
Indeed. I imagine he was given one hell of a shouting at by the PM yesterday, but Johnson knows that DC is too important to his whole project to let him go - even if it means a week more of today's headlines.
A week? Jeez, this will define the entire period Boris is in office.
I am not clear that Cummings has in fact broken any rules.
I keep asking this. Even if people swallow the bizarre argument that the child was in some kind of imminent danger of harm and had to be taken to Durham, WHAT CONCEIVABLE JUSTIFICATION WAS THERE FOR CUMMINGS'S SYMPTOMATIC WIFE TO BE DRIVEN TO THE OTHER END OF THE COUNTRY TOO?
Quite a few Tory MPs have still said precisely nothing about all this. This includes my own MP, just elected for the first time in a solid northern Tory seat.
Yes, I'm in a Tory held seat in southern Scotland. Won't be holding my breath, as our particular donkey in a blue rosette barely knows what day it is at the best of times.
We will see Government approval fall further when they have to take "tough" decisions about how to pay for all of this.
Getting everyone to lock down, whilst paying most of their salaries to do so, was always the easy bit.
The next year or more is going to be horrendous for governments everywhere, with a major global recession and huge borrowing to pay for.
Meanwhile, the U.K. press pack are going to spend the next week worrying about the minutiae of one guy’s calendar a couple of months ago, more interested in getting their scalp than actually holding the government to account.
They won't there will be more meatier stories to focus on.
But on quiet news days it's the perfect story to bring up as I suspect a new spin will sell a lot of papers for the next couple of years.
Oh indeed, but meanwhile we still have an app that doesn’t work and can’t be made to work - which is a much more serious actual issue.
You know that, I know that, most people will now just refuse to download because well, why should I?
That's actually becoming a big problem for everyone not using the off-the-shelf Apple/Google solution - even in really authoritarian places, where everyone usually does as they're told.
The white heat of the anger will have gone to red or below within a week, in a fortnight it'll no longer lead the media other than the Guardian / Mirror, in a month the average person will move on to new topics - do you remember the news a month ago today (be honest)? - in 6 months the economic recovery from coronavirus will crowd out all other news as we struggle to recover from depression, in 4 years the general election will be fought based on what's actually happening then.
Two years from now Scott and ICHB will still be re-tweeting 24/7 about it though
No, you're simply wrong. I know a lot of members who have or are considering resigning over this. If the party membership can't accept it then the voters definitely can't. This is going to run and run. If Boris is still PM in 2024 I could see a Blair style victory for Starmer, Boris has lot his one reason to vote for him - he is a posho everyman who calls it and says it like it is.
Imagine for a minute the party roles were reversed and this was Blair holding onto Ali Campbell after he'd done exactly what Dom has done with Boris as LOTO. He'd tell it how it is and say it can't be one rule from us and another for them. Boris would place himself in with the plebs, he's done it successfully for his whole political career. Until now. If Boris can no longer see what it means to be a pleb and he's become so isolated from ordinary people then he's of no use as a leader because he won't win the next election.
Tbh, the same goes for Dom as well. He's always cast himself into the role as defender of the downtrodden, but now he's doing the treading and damaging those people he claims to represent (and has done well for a long time).
If you think this blows over without anygthig changing then you're even denser than you appear.
Is this the PR stance I would have chosen in an ideal world? Nope. Do I have a sense of perspective that people are not going to smoulder about this for years? Yes. I've also never been a party member, for all the relevance that has.
Think back to all the major scandals that burned hot and ultimately didn't change anything - except it's hard to do that because one has naturally forgotten most of them. A million people marched against Blair and he just shrugged it off. Are a million people going to march against Cummings?
Maybe I'm weird, but when it comes to my political and social attitudes I simply don't bend in the wind with a single news event, however good or bad. And let's face it, what Cummings did merits what, a £30 fine, if that? And suddenly we're in a nuclear war over it? No thanks.
Wisdom comes with age and over my 76years I have learnt that something like dismissing Cummings with a £30 fine misses the heart of the issue, millions feel it is one law for the elite another for the people and Boris just lost his USP in one act of stupidity
The white heat of the anger will have gone to red or below within a week, in a fortnight it'll no longer lead the media other than the Guardian / Mirror, in a month the average person will move on to new topics - do you remember the news a month ago today (be honest)? - in 6 months the economic recovery from coronavirus will crowd out all other news as we struggle to recover from depression, in 4 years the general election will be fought based on what's actually happening then.
Two years from now Scott and ICHB will still be re-tweeting 24/7 about it though
No, you're simply wrong. I know a lot of members who have or are considering resigning over this. If the party membership can't accept it then the voters definitely can't. This is going to run and run. If Boris is still PM in 2024 I could see a Blair style victory for Starmer, Boris has lot his one reason to vote for him - he is a posho everyman who calls it and says it like it is.
Imagine for a minute the party roles were reversed and this was Blair holding onto Ali Campbell after he'd done exactly what Dom has done with Boris as LOTO. He'd tell it how it is and say it can't be one rule from us and another for them. Boris would place himself in with the plebs, he's done it successfully for his whole political career. Until now. If Boris can no longer see what it means to be a pleb and he's become so isolated from ordinary people then he's of no use as a leader because he won't win the next election.
Tbh, the same goes for Dom as well. He's always cast himself into the role as defender of the downtrodden, but now he's doing the treading and damaging those people he claims to represent (and has done well for a long time).
If you think this blows over without anygthig changing then you're even denser than you appear.
Excellent post.
The daft thing is this could have been dealt with:
Boris: I have met Dominic. I understand the serious family issues that arose and how hard this was and the tough decisions that had to be made. However those decisions are having to be many by many everyday across the country, etc.
Dominic writes a letter to Boris on the same theme and offers his resignation.
Boris does the decent thing accepting the difficult circumstances and understanding that and although a mistake was made under difficult circumstances declines to accept the resignation as getting over the pandemic is more important than this.
Yep - brains the size of a planet but miss the blatently obvious get out clause.
If you look as JK Rowling's tweet what you really see is emptiness behind what the British people have been asked to do and the reasons they have been asked to do it.
It was never worth it then and it isn;t worth it now.
There are reasons why no British government ever shut down the country's economy and house arrested its healthy citizens. Reasons of humanity, liberty, freedom and civilisation.
Hopefully these will become important again.
Look, if you are going to make this your chosen specialised subject, have the basic courtesy to inform yourself about it. Read a book or even wikipedia about the 1665 plague, find out what the watch was and what it did to the houses of the infected, learn what the government did about theatres, and ask yourself why the government would bother to shut down the rest of the economy when 95% of trade shut itself down anyway.
The white heat of the anger will have gone to red or below within a week, in a fortnight it'll no longer lead the media other than the Guardian / Mirror, in a month the average person will move on to new topics - do you remember the news a month ago today (be honest)? - in 6 months the economic recovery from coronavirus will crowd out all other news as we struggle to recover from depression, in 4 years the general election will be fought based on what's actually happening then.
Two years from now Scott and ICHB will still be re-tweeting 24/7 about it though
No, you're simply wrong. I know a lot of members who have or are considering resigning over this. If the party membership can't accept it then the voters definitely can't. This is going to run and run. If Boris is still PM in 2024 I could see a Blair style victory for Starmer, Boris has lot his one reason to vote for him - he is a posho everyman who calls it and says it like it is.
Imagine for a minute the party roles were reversed and this was Blair holding onto Ali Campbell after he'd done exactly what Dom has done with Boris as LOTO. He'd tell it how it is and say it can't be one rule from us and another for them. Boris would place himself in with the plebs, he's done it successfully for his whole political career. Until now. If Boris can no longer see what it means to be a pleb and he's become so isolated from ordinary people then he's of no use as a leader because he won't win the next election.
Tbh, the same goes for Dom as well. He's always cast himself into the role as defender of the downtrodden, but now he's doing the treading and damaging those people he claims to represent (and has done well for a long time).
If you think this blows over without anygthig changing then you're even denser than you appear.
Is this the PR stance I would have chosen in an ideal world? Nope. Do I have a sense of perspective that people are not going to smoulder about this for years? Yes. I've also never been a party member, for all the relevance that has.
Think back to all the major scandals that burned hot and ultimately didn't change anything - except it's hard to do that because one has naturally forgotten most of them. A million people marched against Blair and he just shrugged it off. Are a million people going to march against Cummings?
Maybe I'm weird, but when it comes to my political and social attitudes I simply don't bend in the wind with a single news event, however good or bad. And let's face it, what Cummings did merits what, a £30 fine, if that? And suddenly we're in a nuclear war over it? No thanks.
So to repeat my question of last night. Do you think this is a competent administration, and this fuck up the last they will make?
Yes and no.
All governments face pressure and fuck ups. Any that didn't are clearly not facing pressure or making tough choices.
The white heat of the anger will have gone to red or below within a week, in a fortnight it'll no longer lead the media other than the Guardian / Mirror, in a month the average person will move on to new topics - do you remember the news a month ago today (be honest)? - in 6 months the economic recovery from coronavirus will crowd out all other news as we struggle to recover from depression, in 4 years the general election will be fought based on what's actually happening then.
Two years from now Scott and ICHB will still be re-tweeting 24/7 about it though
No, you're simply wrong. I know a lot of members who have or are considering resigning over this. If the party membership can't accept it then the voters definitely can't. This is going to run and run. If Boris is still PM in 2024 I could see a Blair style victory for Starmer, Boris has lot his one reason to vote for him - he is a posho everyman who calls it and says it like it is.
Imagine for a minute the party roles were reversed and this was Blair holding onto Ali Campbell after he'd done exactly what Dom has done with Boris as LOTO. He'd tell it how it is and say it can't be one rule from us and another for them. Boris would place himself in with the plebs, he's done it successfully for his whole political career. Until now. If Boris can no longer see what it means to be a pleb and he's become so isolated from ordinary people then he's of no use as a leader because he won't win the next election.
Tbh, the same goes for Dom as well. He's always cast himself into the role as defender of the downtrodden, but now he's doing the treading and damaging those people he claims to represent (and has done well for a long time).
If you think this blows over without anygthig changing then you're even denser than you appear.
Is this the PR stance I would have chosen in an ideal world? Nope. Do I have a sense of perspective that people are not going to smoulder about this for years? Yes. I've also never been a party member, for all the relevance that has.
Think back to all the major scandals that burned hot and ultimately didn't change anything - except it's hard to do that because one has naturally forgotten most of them. A million people marched against Blair and he just shrugged it off. Are a million people going to march against Cummings?
Maybe I'm weird, but when it comes to my political and social attitudes I simply don't bend in the wind with a single news event, however good or bad. And let's face it, what Cummings did merits what, a £30 fine, if that? And suddenly we're in a nuclear war over it? No thanks.
I'm fairly certain we all remember the headlines of a month ago. An issue that isn't "going away" and one that will damage the party for a generation.
You know what will piss off the frothers even more? The Tories should circulate a list of Labour MPs and officials who've broken the lockdown - and you can bet there will be some - and ask Starmer if he's going to immediately expel them from the party, since the silly hypocrite has already said he would have fired Cummings.
Why is Stephen Kinnock still a Labour MP, Mr. Starmer?
One rule for Labour, and one for everyone else?
He didn’t break quarantine. Nor did he stay away from his house overnight. Nor did he even enter another dwelling.
Equating Kinnock’s minor infringement of the strict letter of the law with this coach and horses action by Cummings is frankly bonkers. Even Jenrick was far less culpable.
Funny how all the excuses come out when it's not Cummings, isn't it? Where's the absolutist moralizing now?
How about Tahir Ali?
Oh, he's a Labour MP and not Cummings, so it's all right, of course.
Well, now you’re showing your true colours. Let’s make it easy.
CUMMINGS DROVE A SICK PERSON 262 MILES ACROSS ENGLAND TO STAY IN A SECOND HOUSE WHEN GOVERNMENT RULES WERE TO STAY AT HOME. HE DID THIS BECAUSE HE WANTED TO STAY IN A HOUSE WITH A GARDEN. HE ALSO DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THE LAW.
KINNOCK WENT TO HIS FATHER’S HOUSE FOR A SHORT CHAT. HE STAYED IN THE GARDEN. HE DID NOT STAY AWAY OVERNIGHT. HE WAS NOT SHOWING SYMPTOMS.
NO REASONABLE OR INTELLIGENT PERSON WOULD DRAW A PARALLEL BETWEEN THE TWO.
Is that clear enough? Do you and other apologists for this loathsome scumbag who has broken every rule in the book need it in words of one syllable?
Your tribalism is blinding you to what has happened, to the extent you are indulging in utterly ridiculous whataboutery. And that is why this is cutting through and making you hated.
You want credibility? He and Johnson have to go. To be blunt, they should never have been there to start with. This sort of disaster was always on the cards given how fundamentally stupid and arrogant they both are.
Incidentally I don’t speak as any supporter of Kinnock. But your attempts to draw parallels are embarrassing you.
Yes, shouting really does makes it look like the exposure of your double standards hasn't gotten to you. Either they should all go, or none of them should.
You know what will piss off the frothers even more? The Tories should circulate a list of Labour MPs and officials who've broken the lockdown - and you can bet there will be some - and ask Starmer if he's going to immediately expel them from the party, since the silly hypocrite has already said he would have fired Cummings.
Why is Stephen Kinnock still a Labour MP, Mr. Starmer? Why is Tahir Ali still a Labour MP, Mr. Starmer?
One rule for Labour, and one for everyone else?
This is getting desperate. AFAIK Kinnock was delivering food and, AIUI, has made no secret of what he did. Not sure about Ali.
And so once again, when it comes to Labour MPs, the absolutist moralizing goes out the window. I wonder why?
The white heat of the anger will have gone to red or below within a week, in a fortnight it'll no longer lead the media other than the Guardian / Mirror, in a month the average person will move on to new topics - do you remember the news a month ago today (be honest)? - in 6 months the economic recovery from coronavirus will crowd out all other news as we struggle to recover from depression, in 4 years the general election will be fought based on what's actually happening then.
Two years from now Scott and ICHB will still be re-tweeting 24/7 about it though
No, you're simply wrong. I know a lot of members who have or are considering resigning over this. If the party membership can't accept it then the voters definitely can't. This is going to run and run. If Boris is still PM in 2024 I could see a Blair style victory for Starmer, Boris has lot his one reason to vote for him - he is a posho everyman who calls it and says it like it is.
Imagine for a minute the party roles were reversed and this was Blair holding onto Ali Campbell after he'd done exactly what Dom has done with Boris as LOTO. He'd tell it how it is and say it can't be one rule from us and another for them. Boris would place himself in with the plebs, he's done it successfully for his whole political career. Until now. If Boris can no longer see what it means to be a pleb and he's become so isolated from ordinary people then he's of no use as a leader because he won't win the next election.
Tbh, the same goes for Dom as well. He's always cast himself into the role as defender of the downtrodden, but now he's doing the treading and damaging those people he claims to represent (and has done well for a long time).
If you think this blows over without anygthig changing then you're even denser than you appear.
Is this the PR stance I would have chosen in an ideal world? Nope. Do I have a sense of perspective that people are not going to smoulder about this for years? Yes. I've also never been a party member, for all the relevance that has.
Think back to all the major scandals that burned hot and ultimately didn't change anything - except it's hard to do that because one has naturally forgotten most of them. A million people marched against Blair and he just shrugged it off. Are a million people going to march against Cummings?
Maybe I'm weird, but when it comes to my political and social attitudes I simply don't bend in the wind with a single news event, however good or bad. And let's face it, what Cummings did merits what, a £30 fine, if that? And suddenly we're in a nuclear war over it? No thanks.
I'm fairly certain we all remember the headlines of a month ago. An issue that isn't "going away" and one that will damage the party for a generation.
"Care Home Coronavirus Deaths Top 4,000"
Is anyone talking about care homes today? No, they're all too busy frothing about a single SpaD to give a damn. And in a month they'll be frothing about something else. That's the nature of the news cycle and the human attention span.
Quite a few Tory MPs have still said precisely nothing about all this. This includes my own MP, just elected for the first time in a solid northern Tory seat.
That's surprising. He is self-evidently a one-term MP so he may as well speak his mind.
The white heat of the anger will have gone to red or below within a week, in a fortnight it'll no longer lead the media other than the Guardian / Mirror, in a month the average person will move on to new topics - do you remember the news a month ago today (be honest)? - in 6 months the economic recovery from coronavirus will crowd out all other news as we struggle to recover from depression, in 4 years the general election will be fought based on what's actually happening then.
Two years from now Scott and ICHB will still be re-tweeting 24/7 about it though
No, you're simply wrong. I know a lot of members who have or are considering resigning over this. If the party membership can't accept it then the voters definitely can't. This is going to run and run. If Boris is still PM in 2024 I could see a Blair style victory for Starmer, Boris has lot his one reason to vote for him - he is a posho everyman who calls it and says it like it is.
Imagine for a minute the party roles were reversed and this was Blair holding onto Ali Campbell after he'd done exactly what Dom has done with Boris as LOTO. He'd tell it how it is and say it can't be one rule from us and another for them. Boris would place himself in with the plebs, he's done it successfully for his whole political career. Until now. If Boris can no longer see what it means to be a pleb and he's become so isolated from ordinary people then he's of no use as a leader because he won't win the next election.
Tbh, the same goes for Dom as well. He's always cast himself into the role as defender of the downtrodden, but now he's doing the treading and damaging those people he claims to represent (and has done well for a long time).
If you think this blows over without anygthig changing then you're even denser than you appear.
Excellent post.
The daft thing is this could have been dealt with:
Boris: I have met Dominic. I understand the serious family issues that arose and how hard this was and the tough decisions that had to be made. However those decisions are having to be many by many everyday across the country, etc.
Dominic writes a letter to Boris on the same theme and offers his resignation.
Boris does the decent thing accepting the difficult circumstances and understanding that and although a mistake was made under difficult circumstances declines to accept the resignation as getting over the pandemic is more important than this.
Yep - brains the size of a planet but miss the blatently obvious get out clause.
If you look as JK Rowling's tweet what you really see is emptiness behind what the British people have been asked to do and the reasons they have been asked to do it.
It was never worth it then and it isn;t worth it now.
There are reasons why no British government ever shut down the country's economy and house arrested its healthy citizens. Reasons of humanity, liberty, freedom and civilisation.
Hopefully these will become important again.
Look, if you are going to make this your chosen specialised subject, have the basic courtesy to inform yourself about it. Read a book or even wikipedia about the 1665 plague, find out what the watch was and what it did to the houses of the infected, learn what the government did about theatres, and ask yourself why the government would bother to shut down the rest of the economy when 95% of trade shut itself down anyway.
The key word there is infected. Sick people were quarantined. There was no house arrest of the healthy or restrictions on their movement, as far as I;m aware.
And the fact you have to go back to the ignorant depths of 1665 in an attempt to justify this barbaric and catastrophic policy speaks volumes to me.
The white heat of the anger will have gone to red or below within a week, in a fortnight it'll no longer lead the media other than the Guardian / Mirror, in a month the average person will move on to new topics - do you remember the news a month ago today (be honest)? - in 6 months the economic recovery from coronavirus will crowd out all other news as we struggle to recover from depression, in 4 years the general election will be fought based on what's actually happening then.
Two years from now Scott and ICHB will still be re-tweeting 24/7 about it though
No, you're simply wrong. I know a lot of members who have or are considering resigning over this. If the party membership can't accept it then the voters definitely can't. This is going to run and run. If Boris is still PM in 2024 I could see a Blair style victory for Starmer, Boris has lot his one reason to vote for him - he is a posho everyman who calls it and says it like it is.
Imagine for a minute the party roles were reversed and this was Blair holding onto Ali Campbell after he'd done exactly what Dom has done with Boris as LOTO. He'd tell it how it is and say it can't be one rule from us and another for them. Boris would place himself in with the plebs, he's done it successfully for his whole political career. Until now. If Boris can no longer see what it means to be a pleb and he's become so isolated from ordinary people then he's of no use as a leader because he won't win the next election.
Tbh, the same goes for Dom as well. He's always cast himself into the role as defender of the downtrodden, but now he's doing the treading and damaging those people he claims to represent (and has done well for a long time).
If you think this blows over without anygthig changing then you're even denser than you appear.
Is this the PR stance I would have chosen in an ideal world? Nope. Do I have a sense of perspective that people are not going to smoulder about this for years? Yes. I've also never been a party member, for all the relevance that has.
Think back to all the major scandals that burned hot and ultimately didn't change anything - except it's hard to do that because one has naturally forgotten most of them. A million people marched against Blair and he just shrugged it off. Are a million people going to march against Cummings?
Maybe I'm weird, but when it comes to my political and social attitudes I simply don't bend in the wind with a single news event, however good or bad. And let's face it, what Cummings did merits what, a £30 fine, if that? And suddenly we're in a nuclear war over it? No thanks.
I'm fairly certain we all remember the headlines of a month ago. An issue that isn't "going away" and one that will damage the party for a generation.
"Care Home Coronavirus Deaths Top 4,000"
Is anyone talking about care homes today? No, they're all too busy frothing about a single SpaD to give a damn. And in a month they'll be frothing about something else. That's the nature of the news cycle and the human attention span.
Nope, any sensible journalist will be keeping the care home story prepared, ready for when this story has ran it's course.
If you think this is hiding the care home story you are in for a hell of a surprise.
IF Boris and Cummings go it will be because of their policy, and not their conduct in relation to it.
Boris nearly lost his life trying to fight this thing, something he could have mentioned yesterday but didn;t.
One could argue that he nearly lost his life because he wanted to pretend it wasn't a big deal, shaking hands in hospitals, delaying imposing measures to contain it. But that might be as disingenuous as claiming that getting the disease somehow proves his capability to lead in the crisis.
The white heat of the anger will have gone to red or below within a week, in a fortnight it'll no longer lead the media other than the Guardian / Mirror, in a month the average person will move on to new topics - do you remember the news a month ago today (be honest)? - in 6 months the economic recovery from coronavirus will crowd out all other news as we struggle to recover from depression, in 4 years the general election will be fought based on what's actually happening then.
Two years from now Scott and ICHB will still be re-tweeting 24/7 about it though
No, you're simply wrong. I know a lot of members who have or are considering resigning over this. If the party membership can't accept it then the voters definitely can't. This is going to run and run. If Boris is still PM in 2024 I could see a Blair style victory for Starmer, Boris has lot his one reason to vote for him - he is a posho everyman who calls it and says it like it is.
Imagine for a minute the party roles were reversed and this was Blair holding onto Ali Campbell after he'd done exactly what Dom has done with Boris as LOTO. He'd tell it how it is and say it can't be one rule from us and another for them. Boris would place himself in with the plebs, he's done it successfully for his whole political career. Until now. If Boris can no longer see what it means to be a pleb and he's become so isolated from ordinary people then he's of no use as a leader because he won't win the next election.
Tbh, the same goes for Dom as well. He's always cast himself into the role as defender of the downtrodden, but now he's doing the treading and damaging those people he claims to represent (and has done well for a long time).
If you think this blows over without anygthig changing then you're even denser than you appear.
Is this the PR stance I would have chosen in an ideal world? Nope. Do I have a sense of perspective that people are not going to smoulder about this for years? Yes. I've also never been a party member, for all the relevance that has.
Think back to all the major scandals that burned hot and ultimately didn't change anything - except it's hard to do that because one has naturally forgotten most of them. A million people marched against Blair and he just shrugged it off. Are a million people going to march against Cummings?
Maybe I'm weird, but when it comes to my political and social attitudes I simply don't bend in the wind with a single news event, however good or bad. And let's face it, what Cummings did merits what, a £30 fine, if that? And suddenly we're in a nuclear war over it? No thanks.
I'm fairly certain we all remember the headlines of a month ago. An issue that isn't "going away" and one that will damage the party for a generation.
"Care Home Coronavirus Deaths Top 4,000"
It will be well over 4,000 but I don't have actual figures. 40,000 wouldn't surprise me.
You know what will piss off the frothers even more? The Tories should circulate a list of Labour MPs and officials who've broken the lockdown - and you can bet there will be some - and ask Starmer if he's going to immediately expel them from the party, since the silly hypocrite has already said he would have fired Cummings.
Why is Stephen Kinnock still a Labour MP, Mr. Starmer?
One rule for Labour, and one for everyone else?
He didn’t break quarantine. Nor did he stay away from his house overnight. Nor did he even enter another dwelling.
Equating Kinnock’s minor infringement of the strict letter of the law with this coach and horses action by Cummings is frankly bonkers. Even Jenrick was far less culpable.
Funny how all the excuses come out when it's not Cummings, isn't it? Where's the absolutist moralizing now?
How about Tahir Ali?
Oh, he's a Labour MP and not Cummings, so it's all right, of course.
Well, now you’re showing your true colours. Let’s make it easy.
CUMMINGS DROVE A SICK PERSON 262 MILES ACROSS ENGLAND TO STAY IN A SECOND HOUSE WHEN GOVERNMENT RULES WERE TO STAY AT HOME. HE DID THIS BECAUSE HE WANTED TO STAY IN A HOUSE WITH A GARDEN. HE ALSO DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THE LAW.
KINNOCK WENT TO HIS FATHER’S HOUSE FOR A SHORT CHAT. HE STAYED IN THE GARDEN. HE DID NOT STAY AWAY OVERNIGHT. HE WAS NOT SHOWING SYMPTOMS.
NO REASONABLE OR INTELLIGENT PERSON WOULD DRAW A PARALLEL BETWEEN THE TWO.
Is that clear enough? Do you and other apologists for this loathsome scumbag who has broken every rule in the book need it in words of one syllable?
Your tribalism is blinding you to what has happened, to the extent you are indulging in utterly ridiculous whataboutery. And that is why this is cutting through and making you hated.
You want credibility? He and Johnson have to go. To be blunt, they should never have been there to start with. This sort of disaster was always on the cards given how fundamentally stupid and arrogant they both are.
Incidentally I don’t speak as any supporter of Kinnock. But your attempts to draw parallels are embarrassing you.
Yes, shouting really does makes it look like the exposure of your double standards hasn't gotten to you. Either they should all go, or none of them should.
'got to you', not 'gotten to you". Are you posting from UK?
The white heat of the anger will have gone to red or below within a week, in a fortnight it'll no longer lead the media other than the Guardian / Mirror, in a month the average person will move on to new topics - do you remember the news a month ago today (be honest)? - in 6 months the economic recovery from coronavirus will crowd out all other news as we struggle to recover from depression, in 4 years the general election will be fought based on what's actually happening then.
Two years from now Scott and ICHB will still be re-tweeting 24/7 about it though
No, you're simply wrong. I know a lot of members who have or are considering resigning over this. If the party membership can't accept it then the voters definitely can't. This is going to run and run. If Boris is still PM in 2024 I could see a Blair style victory for Starmer, Boris has lot his one reason to vote for him - he is a posho everyman who calls it and says it like it is.
Imagine for a minute the party roles were reversed and this was Blair holding onto Ali Campbell after he'd done exactly what Dom has done with Boris as LOTO. He'd tell it how it is and say it can't be one rule from us and another for them. Boris would place himself in with the plebs, he's done it successfully for his whole political career. Until now. If Boris can no longer see what it means to be a pleb and he's become so isolated from ordinary people then he's of no use as a leader because he won't win the next election.
Tbh, the same goes for Dom as well. He's always cast himself into the role as defender of the downtrodden, but now he's doing the treading and damaging those people he claims to represent (and has done well for a long time).
If you think this blows over without anygthig changing then you're even denser than you appear.
Is this the PR stance I would have chosen in an ideal world? Nope. Do I have a sense of perspective that people are not going to smoulder about this for years? Yes. I've also never been a party member, for all the relevance that has.
Think back to all the major scandals that burned hot and ultimately didn't change anything - except it's hard to do that because one has naturally forgotten most of them. A million people marched against Blair and he just shrugged it off. Are a million people going to march against Cummings?
Maybe I'm weird, but when it comes to my political and social attitudes I simply don't bend in the wind with a single news event, however good or bad. And let's face it, what Cummings did merits what, a £30 fine, if that? And suddenly we're in a nuclear war over it? No thanks.
I'm fairly certain we all remember the headlines of a month ago. An issue that isn't "going away" and one that will damage the party for a generation.
"Care Home Coronavirus Deaths Top 4,000"
Is anyone talking about care homes today? No, they're all too busy frothing about a single SpaD to give a damn. And in a month they'll be frothing about something else. That's the nature of the news cycle and the human attention span.
You need to re-read the John Wilson letter if you can't see the connection.
One MP in a Red Wall seat contacted the Guardian’s northern editor, Helen Pidd, to say: “I think he should go. It’s cut through. Massively. He’s a liability.”
The MP said they had received over 100 angry emails about Cummings, with the “non-lefties” expressing the same sentiment as Monday’s Daily Mail front page: “What planet are they on?”
It's too late, until 17:00 yesterday it was enough that Cummings went. At 17:02 it became essential that Boris went as well - his reduced intellectual capacity and tiredness become obvious for all to see.
Yep. If Cummings resigns now it looks like it is a result of political expediency rather than anything else. Boris has to stick with him to the bitter end to save face.
It will take time and it might iron out eventually, however Boris should start negotiating his golden handshake, just in case.
The white heat of the anger will have gone to red or below within a week, in a fortnight it'll no longer lead the media other than the Guardian / Mirror, in a month the average person will move on to new topics - do you remember the news a month ago today (be honest)? - in 6 months the economic recovery from coronavirus will crowd out all other news as we struggle to recover from depression, in 4 years the general election will be fought based on what's actually happening then.
Two years from now Scott and ICHB will still be re-tweeting 24/7 about it though
No, you're simply wrong. I know a lot of members who have or are considering resigning over this. If the party membership can't accept it then the voters definitely can't. This is going to run and run. If Boris is still PM in 2024 I could see a Blair style victory for Starmer, Boris has lot his one reason to vote for him - he is a posho everyman who calls it and says it like it is.
Imagine for a minute the party roles were reversed and this was Blair holding onto Ali Campbell after he'd done exactly what Dom has done with Boris as LOTO. He'd tell it how it is and say it can't be one rule from us and another for them. Boris would place himself in with the plebs, he's done it successfully for his whole political career. Until now. If Boris can no longer see what it means to be a pleb and he's become so isolated from ordinary people then he's of no use as a leader because he won't win the next election.
Tbh, the same goes for Dom as well. He's always cast himself into the role as defender of the downtrodden, but now he's doing the treading and damaging those people he claims to represent (and has done well for a long time).
If you think this blows over without anygthig changing then you're even denser than you appear.
Is this the PR stance I would have chosen in an ideal world? Nope. Do I have a sense of perspective that people are not going to smoulder about this for years? Yes. I've also never been a party member, for all the relevance that has.
Think back to all the major scandals that burned hot and ultimately didn't change anything - except it's hard to do that because one has naturally forgotten most of them. A million people marched against Blair and he just shrugged it off. Are a million people going to march against Cummings?
Maybe I'm weird, but when it comes to my political and social attitudes I simply don't bend in the wind with a single news event, however good or bad. And let's face it, what Cummings did merits what, a £30 fine, if that? And suddenly we're in a nuclear war over it? No thanks.
I'm fairly certain we all remember the headlines of a month ago. An issue that isn't "going away" and one that will damage the party for a generation.
"Care Home Coronavirus Deaths Top 4,000"
Is anyone talking about care homes today? No, they're all too busy frothing about a single SpaD to give a damn. And in a month they'll be frothing about something else. That's the nature of the news cycle and the human attention span.
But they are talking about care homes. They are talking about the people left to die without family or friends, in care homes and hospitals. And they will return to it again and again because it is a huge open sore on the nation. Whether you think it is government's fault or not, it will not go away.
The white heat of the anger will have gone to red or below within a week, in a fortnight it'll no longer lead the media other than the Guardian / Mirror, in a month the average person will move on to new topics - do you remember the news a month ago today (be honest)? - in 6 months the economic recovery from coronavirus will crowd out all other news as we struggle to recover from depression, in 4 years the general election will be fought based on what's actually happening then.
Two years from now Scott and ICHB will still be re-tweeting 24/7 about it though
No, you're simply wrong. I know a lot of members who have or are considering resigning over this. If the party membership can't accept it then the voters definitely can't. This is going to run and run. If Boris is still PM in 2024 I could see a Blair style victory for Starmer, Boris has lot his one reason to vote for him - he is a posho everyman who calls it and says it like it is.
Imagine for a minute the party roles were reversed and this was Blair holding onto Ali Campbell after he'd done exactly what Dom has done with Boris as LOTO. He'd tell it how it is and say it can't be one rule from us and another for them. Boris would place himself in with the plebs, he's done it successfully for his whole political career. Until now. If Boris can no longer see what it means to be a pleb and he's become so isolated from ordinary people then he's of no use as a leader because he won't win the next election.
Tbh, the same goes for Dom as well. He's always cast himself into the role as defender of the downtrodden, but now he's doing the treading and damaging those people he claims to represent (and has done well for a long time).
If you think this blows over without anygthig changing then you're even denser than you appear.
Is this the PR stance I would have chosen in an ideal world? Nope. Do I have a sense of perspective that people are not going to smoulder about this for years? Yes. I've also never been a party member, for all the relevance that has.
Think back to all the major scandals that burned hot and ultimately didn't change anything - except it's hard to do that because one has naturally forgotten most of them. A million people marched against Blair and he just shrugged it off. Are a million people going to march against Cummings?
Maybe I'm weird, but when it comes to my political and social attitudes I simply don't bend in the wind with a single news event, however good or bad. And let's face it, what Cummings did merits what, a £30 fine, if that? And suddenly we're in a nuclear war over it? No thanks.
I'm fairly certain we all remember the headlines of a month ago. An issue that isn't "going away" and one that will damage the party for a generation.
"Care Home Coronavirus Deaths Top 4,000"
Is anyone talking about care homes today? No, they're all too busy frothing about a single SpaD to give a damn. And in a month they'll be frothing about something else. That's the nature of the news cycle and the human attention span.
I remember when making overseas NHS workers pay the NHS surcharge was the defining moment of this government's tenure
You know what will piss off the frothers even more? The Tories should circulate a list of Labour MPs and officials who've broken the lockdown - and you can bet there will be some - and ask Starmer if he's going to immediately expel them from the party, since the silly hypocrite has already said he would have fired Cummings.
Why is Stephen Kinnock still a Labour MP, Mr. Starmer?
One rule for Labour, and one for everyone else?
He didn’t break quarantine. Nor did he stay away from his house overnight. Nor did he even enter another dwelling.
Equating Kinnock’s minor infringement of the strict letter of the law with this coach and horses action by Cummings is frankly bonkers. Even Jenrick was far less culpable.
Funny how all the excuses come out when it's not Cummings, isn't it? Where's the absolutist moralizing now?
How about Tahir Ali?
Oh, he's a Labour MP and not Cummings, so it's all right, of course.
Well, now you’re showing your true colours. Let’s make it easy.
CUMMINGS DROVE A SICK PERSON 262 MILES ACROSS ENGLAND TO STAY IN A SECOND HOUSE WHEN GOVERNMENT RULES WERE TO STAY AT HOME. HE DID THIS BECAUSE HE WANTED TO STAY IN A HOUSE WITH A GARDEN. HE ALSO DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THE LAW.
KINNOCK WENT TO HIS FATHER’S HOUSE FOR A SHORT CHAT. HE STAYED IN THE GARDEN. HE DID NOT STAY AWAY OVERNIGHT. HE WAS NOT SHOWING SYMPTOMS.
NO REASONABLE OR INTELLIGENT PERSON WOULD DRAW A PARALLEL BETWEEN THE TWO.
Is that clear enough? Do you and other apologists for this loathsome scumbag who has broken every rule in the book need it in words of one syllable?
Your tribalism is blinding you to what has happened, to the extent you are indulging in utterly ridiculous whataboutery. And that is why this is cutting through and making you hated.
You want credibility? He and Johnson have to go. To be blunt, they should never have been there to start with. This sort of disaster was always on the cards given how fundamentally stupid and arrogant they both are.
Incidentally I don’t speak as any supporter of Kinnock. But your attempts to draw parallels are embarrassing you.
Yes, shouting really does makes it look like the exposure of your double standards hasn't gotten to you. Either they should all go, or none of them should.
Nonsense, there are degrees. None of these people suspected they had the virus.
And just so you don't think this is because I am a Labour supporter, I am not. I have never voted for them.
Also their impact on undermining the lockdown was less. I don't know all the cases but those I do know about come under the heading of public bollocking.
Corollary: Are you suggesting that all criminals get the same penalty for crimes ranging from littering to mass murder?
The white heat of the anger will have gone to red or below within a week, in a fortnight it'll no longer lead the media other than the Guardian / Mirror, in a month the average person will move on to new topics - do you remember the news a month ago today (be honest)? - in 6 months the economic recovery from coronavirus will crowd out all other news as we struggle to recover from depression, in 4 years the general election will be fought based on what's actually happening then.
Two years from now Scott and ICHB will still be re-tweeting 24/7 about it though
No, you're simply wrong. I know a lot of members who have or are considering resigning over this. If the party membership can't accept it then the voters definitely can't. This is going to run and run. If Boris is still PM in 2024 I could see a Blair style victory for Starmer, Boris has lot his one reason to vote for him - he is a posho everyman who calls it and says it like it is.
Imagine for a minute the party roles were reversed and this was Blair holding onto Ali Campbell after he'd done exactly what Dom has done with Boris as LOTO. He'd tell it how it is and say it can't be one rule from us and another for them. Boris would place himself in with the plebs, he's done it successfully for his whole political career. Until now. If Boris can no longer see what it means to be a pleb and he's become so isolated from ordinary people then he's of no use as a leader because he won't win the next election.
Tbh, the same goes for Dom as well. He's always cast himself into the role as defender of the downtrodden, but now he's doing the treading and damaging those people he claims to represent (and has done well for a long time).
If you think this blows over without anygthig changing then you're even denser than you appear.
Is this the PR stance I would have chosen in an ideal world? Nope. Do I have a sense of perspective that people are not going to smoulder about this for years? Yes. I've also never been a party member, for all the relevance that has.
Think back to all the major scandals that burned hot and ultimately didn't change anything - except it's hard to do that because one has naturally forgotten most of them. A million people marched against Blair and he just shrugged it off. Are a million people going to march against Cummings?
Maybe I'm weird, but when it comes to my political and social attitudes I simply don't bend in the wind with a single news event, however good or bad. And let's face it, what Cummings did merits what, a £30 fine, if that? And suddenly we're in a nuclear war over it? No thanks.
I'm fairly certain we all remember the headlines of a month ago. An issue that isn't "going away" and one that will damage the party for a generation.
"Care Home Coronavirus Deaths Top 4,000"
Is anyone talking about care homes today? No, they're all too busy frothing about a single SpaD to give a damn. And in a month they'll be frothing about something else. That's the nature of the news cycle and the human attention span.
The fact that the government is culpable over thousands of unnecessary and unnecessarily horrible deaths is not the squirrel I would have chosen to point at. Like defending a prosecution for not wearing a seatbelt on the basis of an alibi that you were elsewhere raping a small child at the time of the alleged offence.
You know what will piss off the frothers even more? The Tories should circulate a list of Labour MPs and officials who've broken the lockdown - and you can bet there will be some - and ask Starmer if he's going to immediately expel them from the party, since the silly hypocrite has already said he would have fired Cummings.
Why is Stephen Kinnock still a Labour MP, Mr. Starmer?
One rule for Labour, and one for everyone else?
He didn’t break quarantine. Nor did he stay away from his house overnight. Nor did he even enter another dwelling.
Equating Kinnock’s minor infringement of the strict letter of the law with this coach and horses action by Cummings is frankly bonkers. Even Jenrick was far less culpable.
Funny how all the excuses come out when it's not Cummings, isn't it? Where's the absolutist moralizing now?
How about Tahir Ali?
Oh, he's a Labour MP and not Cummings, so it's all right, of course.
Well, now you’re showing your true colours. Let’s make it easy.
CUMMINGS DROVE A SICK PERSON 262 MILES ACROSS ENGLAND TO STAY IN A SECOND HOUSE WHEN GOVERNMENT RULES WERE TO STAY AT HOME. HE DID THIS BECAUSE HE WANTED TO STAY IN A HOUSE WITH A GARDEN. HE ALSO DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THE LAW.
KINNOCK WENT TO HIS FATHER’S HOUSE FOR A SHORT CHAT. HE STAYED IN THE GARDEN. HE DID NOT STAY AWAY OVERNIGHT. HE WAS NOT SHOWING SYMPTOMS.
NO REASONABLE OR INTELLIGENT PERSON WOULD DRAW A PARALLEL BETWEEN THE TWO.
Is that clear enough? Do you and other apologists for this loathsome scumbag who has broken every rule in the book need it in words of one syllable?
Your tribalism is blinding you to what has happened, to the extent you are indulging in utterly ridiculous whataboutery. And that is why this is cutting through and making you hated.
You want credibility? He and Johnson have to go. To be blunt, they should never have been there to start with. This sort of disaster was always on the cards given how fundamentally stupid and arrogant they both are.
Incidentally I don’t speak as any supporter of Kinnock. But your attempts to draw parallels are embarrassing you.
Yes, shouting really does makes it look like the exposure of your double standards hasn't gotten to you. Either they should all go, or none of them should.
'got to you', not 'gotten to you". Are you posting from UK?
Loyalty is the absolute backbone of human relationships. There's literally nothing I value more highly than it in my personal life, and nothing I despise more than disloyalty, so maybe that's why my gut reaction to this is so strong, quite apart from my obvious partisanship.
If someone does good to you, you must do good to them. End of discussion.
I am not clear that Cummings has in fact broken any rules.
I keep asking this. Even if people swallow the bizarre argument that the child was in some kind of imminent danger of harm and had to be taken to Durham, WHAT CONCEIVABLE JUSTIFICATION WAS THERE FOR CUMMINGS'S SYMPTOMATIC WIFE TO BE DRIVEN TO THE OTHER END OF THE COUNTRY TOO?
Has Cummings broken any rules. This question has to be broken down into parts:
1) What do you mean by 'rule'. This can cover law, advice, guidance and practice. For example there is no 'law' about social distancing but lots of guidance. Let's take it to mean 'law'.
2) The relevant law is fairly simple. It is illegal to leave the premises you are living in without 'reasonable excuse'. The list of 13 excuses in the section is only exemplary and not exhaustive. The section says so.
3) The PM has majored on going to and staying at Durham. For this to be legal all DC needed was a 'reasonable excuse' to leave his premises and take up residence in another. This is at least arguable (though BTW not to me remotely convincing).
4) The Barnard Castle trip is more interesting, because it has neither been admitted or denied - so it almost certainly is true. No explanation has been offered. In practice that must be either because there isn't one or they are only going to suggest one if necessity dictates, as the ice is so thin.
5) If he left his premises to go to Barnard Castle without a reasonable excuse he broke the law. Whether he should have been isolating or not at the time makes no difference. The same would be true for everyone going anywhere on 12 April.
The white heat of the anger will have gone to red or below within a week, in a fortnight it'll no longer lead the media other than the Guardian / Mirror, in a month the average person will move on to new topics - do you remember the news a month ago today (be honest)? - in 6 months the economic recovery from coronavirus will crowd out all other news as we struggle to recover from depression, in 4 years the general election will be fought based on what's actually happening then.
Two years from now Scott and ICHB will still be re-tweeting 24/7 about it though
No, you're simply wrong. I know a lot of members who have or are considering resigning over this. If the party membership can't accept it then the voters definitely can't. This is going to run and run. If Boris is still PM in 2024 I could see a Blair style victory for Starmer, Boris has lot his one reason to vote for him - he is a posho everyman who calls it and says it like it is.
Imagine for a minute the party roles were reversed and this was Blair holding onto Ali Campbell after he'd done exactly what Dom has done with Boris as LOTO. He'd tell it how it is and say it can't be one rule from us and another for them. Boris would place himself in with the plebs, he's done it successfully for his whole political career. Until now. If Boris can no longer see what it means to be a pleb and he's become so isolated from ordinary people then he's of no use as a leader because he won't win the next election.
Tbh, the same goes for Dom as well. He's always cast himself into the role as defender of the downtrodden, but now he's doing the treading and damaging those people he claims to represent (and has done well for a long time).
If you think this blows over without anygthig changing then you're even denser than you appear.
Is this the PR stance I would have chosen in an ideal world? Nope. Do I have a sense of perspective that people are not going to smoulder about this for years? Yes. I've also never been a party member, for all the relevance that has.
Think back to all the major scandals that burned hot and ultimately didn't change anything - except it's hard to do that because one has naturally forgotten most of them. A million people marched against Blair and he just shrugged it off. Are a million people going to march against Cummings?
Maybe I'm weird, but when it comes to my political and social attitudes I simply don't bend in the wind with a single news event, however good or bad. And let's face it, what Cummings did merits what, a £30 fine, if that? And suddenly we're in a nuclear war over it? No thanks.
I'm fairly certain we all remember the headlines of a month ago. An issue that isn't "going away" and one that will damage the party for a generation.
"Care Home Coronavirus Deaths Top 4,000"
Is anyone talking about care homes today? No, they're all too busy frothing about a single SpaD to give a damn. And in a month they'll be frothing about something else. That's the nature of the news cycle and the human attention span.
I remember when making overseas NHS workers pay the NHS surcharge was the defining moment of this government's tenure
Paul Goodman (@PaulGoodmanCH) Tweeted: Cummings. The Prime Minister is now gambling on what the ’22 does next. https://t.co/x73G8MLqUS ttps://twitter.com/PaulGoodmanCH/status/1264832991261491200?s=20
That's a fair piece. The PM needs to find a way to keep his MPs on side, and hope things blow over as the news moves on to more serious matters.
The white heat of the anger will have gone to red or below within a week, in a fortnight it'll no longer lead the media other than the Guardian / Mirror, in a month the average person will move on to new topics - do you remember the news a month ago today (be honest)? - in 6 months the economic recovery from coronavirus will crowd out all other news as we struggle to recover from depression, in 4 years the general election will be fought based on what's actually happening then.
Two years from now Scott and ICHB will still be re-tweeting 24/7 about it though
No, you're simply wrong. I know a lot of members who have or are considering resigning over this. If the party membership can't accept it then the voters definitely can't. This is going to run and run. If Boris is still PM in 2024 I could see a Blair style victory for Starmer, Boris has lot his one reason to vote for him - he is a posho everyman who calls it and says it like it is.
Imagine for a minute the party roles were reversed and this was Blair holding onto Ali Campbell after he'd done exactly what Dom has done with Boris as LOTO. He'd tell it how it is and say it can't be one rule from us and another for them. Boris would place himself in with the plebs, he's done it successfully for his whole political career. Until now. If Boris can no longer see what it means to be a pleb and he's become so isolated from ordinary people then he's of no use as a leader because he won't win the next election.
Tbh, the same goes for Dom as well. He's always cast himself into the role as defender of the downtrodden, but now he's doing the treading and damaging those people he claims to represent (and has done well for a long time).
If you think this blows over without anygthig changing then you're even denser than you appear.
Is this the PR stance I would have chosen in an ideal world? Nope. Do I have a sense of perspective that people are not going to smoulder about this for years? Yes. I've also never been a party member, for all the relevance that has.
Think back to all the major scandals that burned hot and ultimately didn't change anything - except it's hard to do that because one has naturally forgotten most of them. A million people marched against Blair and he just shrugged it off. Are a million people going to march against Cummings?
Maybe I'm weird, but when it comes to my political and social attitudes I simply don't bend in the wind with a single news event, however good or bad. And let's face it, what Cummings did merits what, a £30 fine, if that? And suddenly we're in a nuclear war over it? No thanks.
So to repeat my question of last night. Do you think this is a competent administration, and this fuck up the last they will make?
Yes and no.
All governments face pressure and fuck ups. Any that didn't are clearly not facing pressure or making tough choices.
So you give them a free pass on everything. Fair enough. Not what I would call a paragon of critical thinking but I certainly understand your position.
There are still those who are following the chain of logic of:
1: There is a controversy involving Cummings 2: Cummings was the architect of Leave 3: Ergo it’s all a conspiracy by Remainers 4: Hold the line.
The possibility that there might actually be a non-Brexit related controversy involving Cummings hasn’t yet penetrated. That the Mail, plus many prominent Brexiteers have lambasted him over this might be a clue that, you know, this is about something he’s actually done - would require a big shift in outlook.
I swear if Cummings was to shoot someone in the street shouting "I'm glad I Domminic Cummings kill him" there would be people on here posting "prosecuting Dominic Cummings would just be giving in to the left wing anti-Brexit hate mob"
Why haven't they gone after Stephen Kinnock with the same zeal? Or Tahir Ali?
Perhaps because:
1) neither was at the centre of government 2) neither was carrying the deadly viruses with them on their visit.
Cummings was literally one of the key architects of the whole lockdown policy and its communication.
So you`d think he knew the rules.
Will be interesting if we do get a blow-by-blow account of his actions, accompanied by evidence that he checked it was OK first. The fact that he was, it`s said, talked to by police but but not charged, and police guidance gives him cover.
This story could take an unexpected turn yet, though I doubt it because surely Johnson would have made a better defence than yesterday`s abysmal effort.
Kinnock was promoted to the Shadow front bench by Starmer two weeks after his little episode. Starmer said yesterday if he was PM he would sack Cummings, yet not only did he not sack Kinnock he promoted him.
Double standards much?
Could you describe how they were equaivalent?
I could but if you cannot see it for yourself then there is little point
The white heat of the anger will have gone to red or below within a week, in a fortnight it'll no longer lead the media other than the Guardian / Mirror, in a month the average person will move on to new topics - do you remember the news a month ago today (be honest)? - in 6 months the economic recovery from coronavirus will crowd out all other news as we struggle to recover from depression, in 4 years the general election will be fought based on what's actually happening then.
Two years from now Scott and ICHB will still be re-tweeting 24/7 about it though
No, you're simply wrong. I know a lot of members who have or are considering resigning over this. If the party membership can't accept it then the voters definitely can't. This is going to run and run. If Boris is still PM in 2024 I could see a Blair style victory for Starmer, Boris has lot his one reason to vote for him - he is a posho everyman who calls it and says it like it is.
Imagine for a minute the party roles were reversed and this was Blair holding onto Ali Campbell after he'd done exactly what Dom has done with Boris as LOTO. He'd tell it how it is and say it can't be one rule from us and another for them. Boris would place himself in with the plebs, he's done it successfully for his whole political career. Until now. If Boris can no longer see what it means to be a pleb and he's become so isolated from ordinary people then he's of no use as a leader because he won't win the next election.
Tbh, the same goes for Dom as well. He's always cast himself into the role as defender of the downtrodden, but now he's doing the treading and damaging those people he claims to represent (and has done well for a long time).
If you think this blows over without anygthig changing then you're even denser than you appear.
Is this the PR stance I would have chosen in an ideal world? Nope. Do I have a sense of perspective that people are not going to smoulder about this for years? Yes. I've also never been a party member, for all the relevance that has.
Think back to all the major scandals that burned hot and ultimately didn't change anything - except it's hard to do that because one has naturally forgotten most of them. A million people marched against Blair and he just shrugged it off. Are a million people going to march against Cummings?
Maybe I'm weird, but when it comes to my political and social attitudes I simply don't bend in the wind with a single news event, however good or bad. And let's face it, what Cummings did merits what, a £30 fine, if that? And suddenly we're in a nuclear war over it? No thanks.
I'm fairly certain we all remember the headlines of a month ago. An issue that isn't "going away" and one that will damage the party for a generation.
"Care Home Coronavirus Deaths Top 4,000"
Is anyone talking about care homes today? No, they're all too busy frothing about a single SpaD to give a damn. And in a month they'll be frothing about something else. That's the nature of the news cycle and the human attention span.
I remember when making overseas NHS workers pay the NHS surcharge was the defining moment of this government's tenure
Who gives a f8ck about that now.
It is because it has been superseded by this and of course the Govt changed its policy.
Again Corollary: MP steals mars bar - outrage, then commits murder. Mars bar gets forgotten naturally.
I am not clear that Cummings has in fact broken any rules.
I keep asking this. Even if people swallow the bizarre argument that the child was in some kind of imminent danger of harm and had to be taken to Durham, WHAT CONCEIVABLE JUSTIFICATION WAS THERE FOR CUMMINGS'S SYMPTOMATIC WIFE TO BE DRIVEN TO THE OTHER END OF THE COUNTRY TOO?
Has Cummings broken any rules. This question has to be broken down into parts:
1) What do you mean by 'rule'. This can cover law, advice, guidance and practice. For example there is no 'law' about social distancing but lots of guidance. Let's take it to mean 'law'.
2) The relevant law is fairly simple. It is illegal to leave the premises you are living in without 'reasonable excuse'. The list of 13 excuses in the section is only exemplary and not exhaustive. The section says so.
3) The PM has majored on going to and staying at Durham. For this to be legal all DC needed was a 'reasonable excuse' to leave his premises and take up residence in another. This is at least arguable (though BTW not to me remotely convincing).
4) The Barnard Castle trip is more interesting, because it has neither been admitted or denied - so it almost certainly is true. No explanation has been offered. In practice that must be either because there isn't one or they are only going to suggest one if necessity dictates, as the ice is so thin.
5) If he left his premises to go to Barnard Castle without a reasonable excuse he broke the law.
Seems to sum it up well. Re: 5) are you assuming this trip was within 14 days or outside of it?
The white heat of the anger will have gone to red or below within a week, in a fortnight it'll no longer lead the media other than the Guardian / Mirror, in a month the average person will move on to new topics - do you remember the news a month ago today (be honest)? - in 6 months the economic recovery from coronavirus will crowd out all other news as we struggle to recover from depression, in 4 years the general election will be fought based on what's actually happening then.
Two years from now Scott and ICHB will still be re-tweeting 24/7 about it though
No, you're simply wrong. I know a lot of members who have or are considering resigning over this. If the party membership can't accept it then the voters definitely can't. This is going to run and run. If Boris is still PM in 2024 I could see a Blair style victory for Starmer, Boris has lot his one reason to vote for him - he is a posho everyman who calls it and says it like it is.
Imagine for a minute the party roles were reversed and this was Blair holding onto Ali Campbell after he'd done exactly what Dom has done with Boris as LOTO. He'd tell it how it is and say it can't be one rule from us and another for them. Boris would place himself in with the plebs, he's done it successfully for his whole political career. Until now. If Boris can no longer see what it means to be a pleb and he's become so isolated from ordinary people then he's of no use as a leader because he won't win the next election.
Tbh, the same goes for Dom as well. He's always cast himself into the role as defender of the downtrodden, but now he's doing the treading and damaging those people he claims to represent (and has done well for a long time).
If you think this blows over without anygthig changing then you're even denser than you appear.
Is this the PR stance I would have chosen in an ideal world? Nope. Do I have a sense of perspective that people are not going to smoulder about this for years? Yes. I've also never been a party member, for all the relevance that has.
Think back to all the major scandals that burned hot and ultimately didn't change anything - except it's hard to do that because one has naturally forgotten most of them. A million people marched against Blair and he just shrugged it off. Are a million people going to march against Cummings?
Maybe I'm weird, but when it comes to my political and social attitudes I simply don't bend in the wind with a single news event, however good or bad. And let's face it, what Cummings did merits what, a £30 fine, if that? And suddenly we're in a nuclear war over it? No thanks.
I'm fairly certain we all remember the headlines of a month ago. An issue that isn't "going away" and one that will damage the party for a generation.
"Care Home Coronavirus Deaths Top 4,000"
It will be well over 4,000 but I don't have actual figures. 40,000 wouldn't surprise me.
(That was the ITV news headline at the end of April. The point being that we do remember wha the story was a month ago and that it hasn't gone away!)
Comments
Do we really believe that he made a 400 mile round trip to deliver food and medicine, when there are volunteer teams that do that, not to mention any neighbours. Luckily it was a coincidence that it just happened to be his Dad's birthday, so after driving 200 miles to deliver food and medicine he was able to sit in the front garden and have a bit of birthday cake with him.
When you think about it his excuse (while technically permitted) is worse than that of Cummings
A couple being guided on facetime as they extracted their ten year old's tooth with a pliars.
that is where we are. Barbarism
Despite everything this is the first time the government has got in serious trouble, and it's also the first time they haven't been able to let Cumming manage the story, since he's now the subject of it.
This shows what an excellent operator Cummings is, and how screwed they will be if they get rid of him.
From about 1993, the Major government did a pretty reasonable job of governing, hence the Golden Economic Legacy. It wasn't pretty politically, but it was decent governance.
The 1997 manifesto was full of stuff to tickle Tory tummies.
And it did them precisely zero good in the election.
One you've blown trust, you're a zombie. You might be moving, but you're dead.
Imagine for a minute the party roles were reversed and this was Blair holding onto Ali Campbell after he'd done exactly what Dom has done with Boris as LOTO. He'd tell it how it is and say it can't be one rule from us and another for them. Boris would place himself in with the plebs, he's done it successfully for his whole political career. Until now. If Boris can no longer see what it means to be a pleb and he's become so isolated from ordinary people then he's of no use as a leader because he won't win the next election.
Tbh, the same goes for Dom as well. He's always cast himself into the role as defender of the downtrodden, but now he's doing the treading and damaging those people he claims to represent (and has done well for a long time).
If you think this blows over without anygthig changing then you're even denser than you appear.
Its that its quarantine! He had/claims to have had/his wife had/claims to have had covid symptoms and people he was close to had tested positive. Spreading the deadly virus 350 miles up and down the country is not just breaking lockdown.
The MP said they had received over 100 angry emails about Cummings, with the “non-lefties” expressing the same sentiment as Monday’s Daily Mail front page: “What planet are they on?”
You just ignored the points ydoethur made as to why it wasn't so serious. You also ignored the fact that Jenrick is a Tory so you can't claim it is political bias.
The Government makes the calls and takes the responsibility if it calls it wrong. Doesn't matter what the hypothetical alternative crew might have done.
* There are a few equipped for emergency work.
He has made a terrible error of judgment that has undermined his authority, embarrassed many of us, and he is a very diminished political figure this morning
And let me make this clear this has nothing to do with brexit, it has all to do with supporting millions of suffering people trying to follow HMG advice and the perception of so many that this is just wrong
Even if Boris sacks him, and I very much doubt he will, last night will be seen, dare I say it, as his'poll tax' moment and I hope he decides due to his obvious health issues to stand down and spend time with Carrie and his young son
On a personal note I am actually quite sorry for him and I know many of his fiercest critics will be celebrating his fall from grace, but for me I hold no bitterness, just sadness.
And I still remain a member of the party and hope that wiser heads will take control as we move forward and into the economic armaggedon we are all facing over the years to come
At 17:02 it became essential that Boris went as well - his reduced intellectual capacity and tiredness become obvious for all to see.
CUMMINGS DROVE A SICK PERSON 262 MILES ACROSS ENGLAND TO STAY IN A SECOND HOUSE WHEN GOVERNMENT RULES WERE TO STAY AT HOME. HE DID THIS BECAUSE HE WANTED TO STAY IN A HOUSE WITH A GARDEN. HE ALSO DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THE LAW.
KINNOCK WENT TO HIS FATHER’S HOUSE FOR A SHORT CHAT. HE STAYED IN THE GARDEN. HE DID NOT STAY AWAY OVERNIGHT. HE WAS NOT SHOWING SYMPTOMS.
NO REASONABLE OR INTELLIGENT PERSON WOULD DRAW A PARALLEL BETWEEN THE TWO.
Is that clear enough? Do you and other apologists for this loathsome scumbag who has broken every rule in the book need it in words of one syllable?
Your tribalism is blinding you to what has happened, to the extent you are indulging in utterly ridiculous whataboutery. And that is why this is cutting through and making you hated.
You want credibility? He and Johnson have to go. To be blunt, they should never have been there to start with. This sort of disaster was always on the cards given how fundamentally stupid and arrogant they both are.
Incidentally I don’t speak as any supporter of Kinnock. But your attempts to draw parallels are embarrassing you.
a) some scrote nicking a Mars Bar from Tesco; or
b) the local Chief Constable nicking a Mars Bar from Tesco?
Big difference, particularly as the government has self isolation in Quarantine as a core part of relaxing lockdown.
Or had intended so. Self Isolation is toast now.
It was never worth it then and it isn;t worth it now.
There are reasons why no British government ever shut down the country's economy and house arrested its healthy citizens. Reasons of humanity, liberty, freedom and civilisation.
Hopefully these will become important again.
I 100% agree with your second paragraph
AFAIK Kinnock was delivering food and, AIUI, has made no secret of what he did. Not sure about Ali.
Think back to all the major scandals that burned hot and ultimately didn't change anything - except it's hard to do that because one has naturally forgotten most of them. A million people marched against Blair and he just shrugged it off. Are a million people going to march against Cummings?
Maybe I'm weird, but when it comes to my political and social attitudes I simply don't bend in the wind with a single news event, however good or bad. And let's face it, what Cummings did merits what, a £30 fine, if that? And suddenly we're in a nuclear war over it? No thanks.
What do you think about the desperate suffering and the wave of medieval style treatments those barbaric rules have unleashed?
Are you telling me they are worth it? Even in the questionable circumstance that they make any difference whatsoever.
Honestly, the attempts here to draw an equivalence are making me wonder if the entirety of the Tory loyalists have been placed under mass hypnosis.
Johnson is a dead duck, and he knows it. He’s got max 24 months.
Johnson needs something big to save his Churchillian self-image. Brexit insufficient as it will be accepted to be idiocy by future generations.
What other “biggies” remain for a dead duck PM? War within next year seems profoundly unlikely. Answer: regain English independence.
SNP+SGP win Scottish GE next year and request new Edinburgh Agreement. Johnson negotiates one with them.
During referendum run-up, after flirting with No, Johnson eventually plumps for Yes (cf run-up to Brexit referendum).
Johnson and Yes win.
Johnson thinks he is the new Churchill (or Athelstan or King Billy or whoever).
England (still clinging on to Wales) and Scotland join UN.
NI finally f.... off, to everyone’s immense relief (except Dublin’s).
The daft thing is this could have been dealt with:
Boris: I have met Dominic. I understand the serious family issues that arose and how hard this was and the tough decisions that had to be made. However those decisions are having to be many by many everyday across the country, etc.
Dominic writes a letter to Boris on the same theme and offers his resignation.
Boris does the decent thing accepting the difficult circumstances and understanding that and although a mistake was made under difficult circumstances declines to accept the resignation as getting over the pandemic is more important than this.
You think he'll resign that soon?
Boris nearly lost his life trying to fight this thing, something he could have mentioned yesterday but didn;t.
Because in Insane Frothers World driving to Durham is worse than bombing Iraq.
No, he needs to be bolder.
Build Boris Island. Move Hong Kong to it.
On NI, perhaps Arlene Foster will be the unionist to think the unthinkable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkKvUnavS-E
https://twitter.com/brucemcd23/status/1264835586780803072
https://www.thenational.ae/world/mena/qatar-virus-tracing-app-stirs-rare-privacy-backlash-1.1024415
Mind you https://twitter.com/jjs999jjs/status/1264654658066358277
could explain why things are the way they are.
All governments face pressure and fuck ups. Any that didn't are clearly not facing pressure or making tough choices.
"Care Home Coronavirus Deaths Top 4,000"
Paul Goodman (@PaulGoodmanCH) Tweeted: Cummings. The Prime Minister is now gambling on what the ’22 does next. https://t.co/x73G8MLqUS https://twitter.com/PaulGoodmanCH/status/1264832991261491200?s=20
And the fact you have to go back to the ignorant depths of 1665 in an attempt to justify this barbaric and catastrophic policy speaks volumes to me.
If you think this is hiding the care home story you are in for a hell of a surprise.
There's no point in pretending the internet has a delete button, trying to get rid of stuff just adds to the story.
It will take time and it might iron out eventually, however Boris should start negotiating his golden handshake, just in case.
Who gives a f8ck about that now.
And just so you don't think this is because I am a Labour supporter, I am not. I have never voted for them.
Also their impact on undermining the lockdown was less. I don't know all the cases but those I do know about come under the heading of public bollocking.
Corollary: Are you suggesting that all criminals get the same penalty for crimes ranging from littering to mass murder?
Leave + £150.50
Remain -£51.20
If someone does good to you, you must do good to them. End of discussion.
1) What do you mean by 'rule'. This can cover law, advice, guidance and practice. For example there is no 'law' about social distancing but lots of guidance. Let's take it to mean 'law'.
2) The relevant law is fairly simple. It is illegal to leave the premises you are living in without 'reasonable excuse'. The list of 13 excuses in the section is only exemplary and not exhaustive. The section says so.
3) The PM has majored on going to and staying at Durham. For this to be legal all DC needed was a 'reasonable excuse' to leave his premises and take up residence in another. This is at least arguable (though BTW not to me remotely convincing).
4) The Barnard Castle trip is more interesting, because it has neither been admitted or denied - so it almost certainly is true. No explanation has been offered. In practice that must be either because there isn't one or they are only going to suggest one if necessity dictates, as the ice is so thin.
5) If he left his premises to go to Barnard Castle without a reasonable excuse he broke the law. Whether he should have been isolating or not at the time makes no difference. The same would be true for everyone going anywhere on 12 April.
Kinnnock wasn't.
Oh look already not comparable.
Again Corollary: MP steals mars bar - outrage, then commits murder. Mars bar gets forgotten naturally.