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  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited May 2020
    C
    DougSeal said:

    eadric said:

    DougSeal said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Except.... Reicher is another crazed Remoaner

    https://twitter.com/WeBackBoris/status/1264625053917949953?s=20


    Dig deep enough, and almost everything comes down to Brexit
    He gave his reasons for his view:

    https://twitter.com/reicherstephen/status/1264610669237862407?s=21

    Nothing about Brexit in any of that. All of it makes complete sense.
    But it is still Brexit. You know it, I know it
    This has got sod all to do with Brexit. Britain has left the EU and, in case you didn't notice, it's not the story any more.

    If you genuinely cannot understand the seething anger from the public, who have made immense sacrifices, at being essentially told they are mugs who somehow don't love their children enough, then you're a moron.
    Sigh. I understand the anger. I have been extremely critical of this government over their handling of covid-19. On this site. I believe they have been criminally negligent and careers should end. Possibly including the PM's

    My point is that the EXTREME ferocity aimed at Cummings is because he did a Brexit on the lawn of posh people. He is verily disliked, thereby
    Nope. You really, really don't get it.

    The people whose blood is now boiling aren't the hardened old Remoaner foe or whatever. This is visceral from people who obeyed the rules at great personal expense to save lives, and now think they were treated like mugs.
    Except the greatest bile is coming from the most angry Remoaners, like Led By Donkeys. They parked this in Dom C's street


    https://twitter.com/WillBlackWriter/status/1264536965262835713?s=20

    Check the Tweeter's timeline. Insane Remoanerism. Completely batshit.

    Denying this is futile
    Yes, absolutely, Remainers are loving this. But Julia Hartley-Brewer retweeted Led by Donkeys today so the bile crosses the Brexit divide.


    Yes, I entirely accept that. It's when I saw JHB getting het up about CastleGate, on Friday evening, that I thought: OK, this could be a lot bigger than I expected.

    I still wholly believe this is driven at its core by Remainers seeking revenge (or more), but it has gone way beyond them. As a Tory PM, if you lose the Daily Mail on an issue like this, you are in deep shit. I am quite mystified by Boris' behaviour.
    I would agree with you if you replaced “Remainers” with “the left”. This is a return to some form of politics as normal. Leavers underestimate how Remainers have moved on. We have, indeed, “got over it” as we were constantly advised and are returning to our old political homes. Cummings mistake is that he’s still fighting a battle he won - see he comment to journalists outside his house yesterday - and thinks he knows more than he does. He’s fighting the last war and will therefore lose this one.
    Unfortunately for those erstwhile Remainers, it seems Leavers haven't moved on. Johnson is the feckless charlatan he has always been and always will be, but that 47% support for him, even before this weekend's events is depressing and will be difficult to beat. Dominic Cummings may be right that he will win again.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,054
    edited May 2020
    EPG said:

    Looks like a Murdoch (-Gove) v the rest divide in the headlines.

    Murdoch supports Trump, so not really that surprising.
  • FF43 said:

    Can I say, what a lovelyy pa

    DougSeal said:

    eadric said:

    DougSeal said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Except.... Reicher is another crazed Remoaner

    https://twitter.com/WeBackBoris/status/1264625053917949953?s=20


    Dig deep enough, and almost everything comes down to Brexit
    He gave his reasons for his view:

    https://twitter.com/reicherstephen/status/1264610669237862407?s=21

    Nothing about Brexit in any of that. All of it makes complete sense.
    But it is still Brexit. You know it, I know it
    This has got sod all to do with Brexit. Britain has left the EU and, in case you didn't notice, it's not the story any more.

    If you genuinely cannot understand the seething anger from the public, who have made immense sacrifices, at being essentially told they are mugs who somehow don't love their children enough, then you're a moron.
    Sigh. I understand the anger. I have been extremely critical of this government over their handling of covid-19. On this site. I believe they have been criminally negligent and careers should end. Possibly including the PM's

    My point is that the EXTREME ferocity aimed at Cummings is because he did a Brexit on the lawn of posh people. He is verily disliked, thereby
    Nope. You really, really don't get it.

    The people whose blood is now boiling aren't the hardened old Remoaner foe or whatever. This is visceral from people who obeyed the rules at great personal expense to save lives, and now think they were treated like mugs.
    Except the greatest bile is coming from the most angry Remoaners, like Led By Donkeys. They parked this in Dom C's street


    https://twitter.com/WillBlackWriter/status/1264536965262835713?s=20

    Check the Tweeter's timeline. Insane Remoanerism. Completely batshit.

    Denying this is futile
    Yes, absolutely, Remainers are loving this. But Julia Hartley-Brewer retweeted Led by Donkeys today so the bile crosses the Brexit divide.


    Yes, I entirely accept that. It's when I saw JHB getting het up about CastleGate, on Friday evening, that I thought: OK, this could be a lot bigger than I expected.

    I still wholly believe this is driven at its core by Remainers seeking revenge (or more), but it has gone way beyond them. As a Tory PM, if you lose the Daily Mail on an issue like this, you are in deep shit. I am quite mystified by Boris' behaviour.
    I would agree with you if you replaced “Remainers” with “the left”. This is a return to some form of politics as normal. Leavers underestimate how Remainers have moved on. We have, indeed, “got over it” as we were constantly advised and are returning to our old political homes. Cummings mistake is that he’s still fighting a battle he won - see he comment to journalists outside his house yesterday - and thinks he knows more than he does. He’s fighting the last war and will therefore lose this one.
    Unfortunately for those erstwhile Remainers, it seems Leavers haven't moved on. Johnson is the feckless charlatan he has always been and always will be, but that 47% support for him, even before this weekend's events is depressing and will be difficult to beat.
    I do not believe it will be 47% for much longer.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,529
    eek said:

    Compare and contrast these 2 pictures of Boris

    https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/1264664747049451521

    The last 5 months have been an eternity but Boris really doesn't look good.

    Be careful what you wish for.

    Boris wanted to be a 'blood, toil, tears and sweat' leader but a 'blood, toil, tears and sweat' leader can involve actual blood, toil, tears and sweat as well as giving speeches about 'blood, toil, tears and sweat'.
  • I want to make an open and comprehensive offer to PB Tories.

    Join our cause, a strong and stable Government in the national interest can be achieved.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,152
    Makes this afternoon even less explicable. Boris or a minion could have done a low key "Dom understands people's concerns, Cabinet Secretary has promised a report will be on PM's desk Friday, keep calm, carry on and remain indoors unless permitted." Deflate the story by boring the hell out of everyone.

    Instead, we've seen the stakes doubled, the PM looking strange, confused and shifty again, and the PM has kept the story going.

    Makes no sense.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535

    eek said:

    Compare and contrast these 2 pictures of Boris

    https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/1264664747049451521

    The last 5 months have been an eternity but Boris really doesn't look good.

    Be careful what you wish for.

    Boris wanted to be a 'blood, toil, tears and sweat' leader but a 'blood, toil, tears and sweat' leader can involve actual blood, toil, tears and sweat as well as giving speeches about 'blood, toil, tears and sweat'.
    and coffins.
  • I really think Johnson is not very well at all.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,217
    eadric said:

    geoffw said:

    eadric said:

    Polling is going to look dire if the Mail has lost confidence

    I am sure it will but the more important issue is why has Boris sacrificed his career for Cummings
    That indeed is the question

    I can see Boris falling over this. WHY?
    Brothers in arms. One for all and all for one.

    Doesn't really explain it. Boris is not exactly known for unswerving loyalty to a man or a cause
    It's the price of Gove's support. Cummings is Gove's man. Apparently Cummings' plan for reorganizing government is to have him and Gove in command of it all from the Cabinet Office.

    Johnson is just the front man.

    Together they're a three-legged stool.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,529
    glw said:
    Its the dangers of the echo chamber.
  • What is the largest polling swing in a week?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Ave_it said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Except.... Reicher is another crazed Remoaner

    https://twitter.com/WeBackBoris/status/1264625053917949953?s=20


    Dig deep enough, and almost everything comes down to Brexit
    He gave his reasons for his view:

    https://twitter.com/reicherstephen/status/1264610669237862407?s=21

    Nothing about Brexit in any of that. All of it makes complete sense.
    But it is still Brexit. You know it, I know it
    This has got sod all to do with Brexit. Britain has left the EU and, in case you didn't notice, it's not the story any more.

    If you genuinely cannot understand the seething anger from the public, who have made immense sacrifices, at being essentially told they are mugs who somehow don't love their children enough, then you're a moron.
    Sigh. I understand the anger. I have been extremely critical of this government over their handling of covid-19. On this site. I believe they have been criminally negligent and careers should end. Possibly including the PM's

    My point is that the EXTREME ferocity aimed at Cummings is because he did a Brexit on the lawn of posh people. He is verily disliked, thereby
    Not in my case - it's because he created this lockdown mess and then wilfully ignored it himself.

    Heck it seems he ignored it a second time to see his parents due to the death of his uncle - when a lot of people were unable to travel to see their spouse or parents prior or even after their death because HSE stated that it wasn't an essential journey.

    Plus Cummings is an arrogant twat.
    I’ve been saying this for years.

    It’s very gratifying people are now starting to notice I was right.
    People with these kinds of attitudes always come unstuck eventually.
    I do hope I don’t.

    Oh, sorry, did you mean Cummings?
    I meant Cummings, yes. I like your posts.
    My post was not intended entirely seriously :smiley:

    But thank you for the second sentence. I fear I am vain enough to purr at the compliment.
    Ah, no worries :)

    Please feel free to purr, I know I get excited when occasionally users like my posts too :)

    I fear I am not very popular on this site.
    You are ok CHB. You are committed to your cause. You can give it out but can take it too! 😊
    That's kind but I won't be able to offer you a position in my Government.
    I think you’re f’in ace! You’re the only poor sod who likes my posts!
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900

    What is the largest polling swing in a week?

    Watch as it barely moves.
  • houndtanghoundtang Posts: 450
    Excellent header. We can't live like this, it's unnatural.
    Apparently primary school children will be in 'bubbles' than can''t interact with the kids in the other 'bubbles' even in the playground. Three year olds in nurseries will have to sit and play alone.
    If you want to cause kids mental health problems, these policies sound like excellent ways of achieving this.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,437

    What is the largest polling swing in a week?

    I don’t think the polls will change much. People are not engaged in party politics at the moment.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    DougSeal said:
    Laura Kuenssberg can’t be accused of going gentle on the government in that piece.
    Maybes she's a bit miffed with her unnamed source who's story was contradicted within a day opening her up to total ridicule?
  • DougSeal said:

    Ave_it said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Except.... Reicher is another crazed Remoaner

    https://twitter.com/WeBackBoris/status/1264625053917949953?s=20


    Dig deep enough, and almost everything comes down to Brexit
    He gave his reasons for his view:

    https://twitter.com/reicherstephen/status/1264610669237862407?s=21

    Nothing about Brexit in any of that. All of it makes complete sense.
    But it is still Brexit. You know it, I know it
    This has got sod all to do with Brexit. Britain has left the EU and, in case you didn't notice, it's not the story any more.

    If you genuinely cannot understand the seething anger from the public, who have made immense sacrifices, at being essentially told they are mugs who somehow don't love their children enough, then you're a moron.
    Sigh. I understand the anger. I have been extremely critical of this government over their handling of covid-19. On this site. I believe they have been criminally negligent and careers should end. Possibly including the PM's

    My point is that the EXTREME ferocity aimed at Cummings is because he did a Brexit on the lawn of posh people. He is verily disliked, thereby
    Not in my case - it's because he created this lockdown mess and then wilfully ignored it himself.

    Heck it seems he ignored it a second time to see his parents due to the death of his uncle - when a lot of people were unable to travel to see their spouse or parents prior or even after their death because HSE stated that it wasn't an essential journey.

    Plus Cummings is an arrogant twat.
    I’ve been saying this for years.

    It’s very gratifying people are now starting to notice I was right.
    People with these kinds of attitudes always come unstuck eventually.
    I do hope I don’t.

    Oh, sorry, did you mean Cummings?
    I meant Cummings, yes. I like your posts.
    My post was not intended entirely seriously :smiley:

    But thank you for the second sentence. I fear I am vain enough to purr at the compliment.
    Ah, no worries :)

    Please feel free to purr, I know I get excited when occasionally users like my posts too :)

    I fear I am not very popular on this site.
    You are ok CHB. You are committed to your cause. You can give it out but can take it too! 😊
    That's kind but I won't be able to offer you a position in my Government.
    I think you’re f’in ace! You’re the only poor sod who likes my posts!
    They're good contributions, please continue.

    But love-bombing me will not change my mind, I will not run a Government via nepotism.
  • eadric said:

    I want to make an open and comprehensive offer to PB Tories.

    Join our cause, a strong and stable Government in the national interest can be achieved.

    Fuck off
    It was a joke...
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited May 2020
    Best prices - Next Con Leader

    Sunak 7/2
    Gove 10/1
    Raab 14/1
    Hunt 16/1
    Javid 20/1
    Mordaunt 25/1
    Patel 25/1
    Tugendhat 25/1
  • What is the largest polling swing in a week?

    I don’t think the polls will change much. People are not engaged in party politics at the moment.
    But what is the largest polling swing in a week?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    edited May 2020
    Those saying crickey even the Daily Mail blasting the government tonight...have you not seen their coverage of government handling of coronavirus, Piers Morgan articles aren't even the most hostile. They have been as critical of the government as the Guardian.

    Remember they got a new editor, who knows his readership, but no fan of Boris or Brexit.

    That all been said, again the handling of this is even worse than the botched loosening of the lockdown. Bad politics, bad comms / PR and bad morals.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    Would he have thrown the book at grooming gangs or would that have been too far for him?
    Didn't you get the memo? The Tories managed to screw that line of attack up as well.

    "Minister Nadine Dorries criticised for tweeting ‘doctored video from far-right account’ attacking Keir Starmer"

    https://tinyurl.com/ybj6xfcy
    TBF, Dorries would screw up the opening of a box of chocolates. But Starmer is on dodgy grounds given his time as Head of the CPS. The Tories haven't really gone into his record yet, give it time and they will.
    I'm not sure there is much in this.

    "There's a case you don't remember more than a decade ago where Keir Starmer arguably ought to have green or red lighted a prosecution and didn't". That's what the DPP job is at the end of the day.
    We will disagree on this. The US and the UK have much in common politically and one thing I suspect will be the same is that those involved in prosecuting cases will always have baggage that will hold them back. At the moment, nobody really knows about Keir Starmer and his past as Head of the DPP. Once there are references to, e.g., how he didn't press for grooming gangs to be vigorously stamped upon, that will play badly, especially in ex-Red Wall towns
    I thought Nadine Dorries had just tried that and hastily had to retract her tweet and skulk off with her tail between her legs.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411

    I want to make an open and comprehensive offer to PB Tories.

    Join our cause, a strong and stable Government in the national interest can be achieved.

    Do you want to be in a large party with me, Big G, TGOHF, bluest blue and HYUFD? Or has HYUFD gone Layla now? 😊
  • Obviously nobody got what I was referencing :(
  • glwglw Posts: 9,892
    edited May 2020

    glw said:
    Its the dangers of the echo chamber.
    I'm not joking when I say this, I honestly think Gordon Brown would have handled the situation better than Boris has. Brown would have better understood how people would feel and realised he had to get rid of his aide. And could always bring him back after a suitable time.

    It's incredible how badly No. 10 and Boris have judged this. Today's statements have simply fanned the flames.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411

    What is the largest polling swing in a week?

    15% next week?!
  • Makes this afternoon even less explicable. Boris or a minion could have done a low key "Dom understands people's concerns, Cabinet Secretary has promised a report will be on PM's desk Friday, keep calm, carry on and remain indoors unless permitted." Deflate the story by boring the hell out of everyone.

    Instead, we've seen the stakes doubled, the PM looking strange, confused and shifty again, and the PM has kept the story going.

    Makes no sense.
    This is, indeed, the weirdest thing of all.

    How can they have imagined for one moment that the PM fronting it up, without any contrition, explanation, or willingness to answer a straight question, would have helped resolve it?

    How on earth did they not see it was pouring petrol onto the fire?

    What is wrong at the heart of the operation?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,600
    Alistair said:

    DougSeal said:
    Laura Kuenssberg can’t be accused of going gentle on the government in that piece.
    Maybes she's a bit miffed with her unnamed source who's story was contradicted within a day opening her up to total ridicule?
    Which story?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,172
    Scott_xP said:
    Their Scottish sister paper does it better.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Except.... Reicher is another crazed Remoaner

    https://twitter.com/WeBackBoris/status/1264625053917949953?s=20


    Dig deep enough, and almost everything comes down to Brexit
    He gave his reasons for his view:

    https://twitter.com/reicherstephen/status/1264610669237862407?s=21

    Nothing about Brexit in any of that. All of it makes complete sense.
    But it is still Brexit. You know it, I know it
    This has got sod all to do with Brexit. Britain has left the EU and, in case you didn't notice, it's not the story any more.

    If you genuinely cannot understand the seething anger from the public, who have made immense sacrifices, at being essentially told they are mugs who somehow don't love their children enough, then you're a moron.
    Sigh. I understand the anger. I have been extremely critical of this government over their handling of covid-19. On this site. I believe they have been criminally negligent and careers should end. Possibly including the PM's

    My point is that the EXTREME ferocity aimed at Cummings is because he did a Brexit on the lawn of posh people. He is verily disliked, thereby
    Nope. You really, really don't get it.

    The people whose blood is now boiling aren't the hardened old Remoaner foe or whatever. This is visceral from people who obeyed the rules at great personal expense to save lives, and now think they were treated like mugs.
    Except the greatest bile is coming from the most angry Remoaners, like Led By Donkeys. They parked this in Dom C's street

    [A tweet]

    Check the Tweeter's timeline. Insane Remoanerism. Completely batshit.

    Denying this is futile
    Twitter does not equal the world.

    Tory MPs are hearing from people who are furious and aren't all rabid Remainers.
    See my other comment. I entirely accept that this is now way beyond Remainers.

    The Tories have upset Middle Britain, how deeply has to be seen, but it ain't good.

    I reckon Cummings will go, sooner or later - probably sooner - and he might be followed quite swiftly by Boris himself
    Not sure "upset" is the word. Middle England is fucking furious. Every family and every group of mates has a story to tell of sacrifice during the last eight weeks. Many of them heartbreaking.

    "What planet are you on" is the right headline, cos that is what people are asking
  • Makes this afternoon even less explicable. Boris or a minion could have done a low key "Dom understands people's concerns, Cabinet Secretary has promised a report will be on PM's desk Friday, keep calm, carry on and remain indoors unless permitted." Deflate the story by boring the hell out of everyone.

    Instead, we've seen the stakes doubled, the PM looking strange, confused and shifty again, and the PM has kept the story going.

    Makes no sense.
    This is, indeed, the weirdest thing of all.

    How can they have imagined for one moment that the PM fronting it up, without any contrition, explanation, or willingness to answer a straight question, would have helped resolve it?

    How on earth did they not see it was pouring petrol onto the fire?

    What is wrong at the heart of the operation?
    You have a sociopath trying to explain his problems away, that is why.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,246

    Obviously nobody got what I was referencing :(

    You May be right.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,246

    Makes this afternoon even less explicable. Boris or a minion could have done a low key "Dom understands people's concerns, Cabinet Secretary has promised a report will be on PM's desk Friday, keep calm, carry on and remain indoors unless permitted." Deflate the story by boring the hell out of everyone.

    Instead, we've seen the stakes doubled, the PM looking strange, confused and shifty again, and the PM has kept the story going.

    Makes no sense.
    You’re assuming they’re rational and intelligent, and trying to act sensibly.

    This is a bold assumption.
  • I was referencing David Cameron's offer to the Lib Dems after the 2010 election.
  • eadric said:

    eadric said:

    I want to make an open and comprehensive offer to PB Tories.

    Join our cause, a strong and stable Government in the national interest can be achieved.

    Fuck off
    It was a joke...
    lol. I know! I just wanted to tell you to Fuck Off. You supported Corbyn
    *Sigh*

    Do I need to apologise again?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    edited May 2020
    Big dom for his supposed political genius...they could have closed this story down in half a day, nobody would have noticed as nice bank holiday, and been back in government in 6 months.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,984

    FF43 said:

    Johnson is bunkering down. Which I think means he will get even more beholden to Cummings and his inner circle and and even more despotic.

    We're definitely at Defcon Downfall Parodies. Anyone seen one yet?
    This is more like Theodan and Wormtongue - where’s Gandalf when you need him?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,280
    The Tories have always suffered from a perception that they do not understand the problems of ordinary people, that they are not one of us, that they don’t get people’s wishes.

    Boris’s USP was that he seemed to be just such a person - despite his background. That he was “in touch”. It was Labour leaders who were seen as out of touch, Corbyn especially.

    Now Boris has damaged that USP. He comes across as someone who not only thinks the rules don’t apply to him and his mates but doesn’t understand why others are furious/upset at this. He comes across as arrogant and entitled - just like the traditional view of Tories.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535
    I've had a couple of texts to say Cummings family have a new line about grieving for a lost brother.

    Any info on this?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,152
    houndtang said:

    Excellent header. We can't live like this, it's unnatural.
    Apparently primary school children will be in 'bubbles' than can''t interact with the kids in the other 'bubbles' even in the playground. Three year olds in nurseries will have to sit and play alone.
    If you want to cause kids mental health problems, these policies sound like excellent ways of achieving this.

    Trouble is that the way out of lockdown and bubbles is to get test'n'track working. Like the WHO were telling us back in February and March. And now we have testing facilities, contact tracing is just competent gumshoeing. it's effortful, and it won't pick up everything but it's not difficult. It's just going back to how we used to do things before antibiotics made us lazy.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    edited May 2020
    eadric said:


    Have you seen the pics from France?


    70 in a week doesn't sound like a huge number - France still has 3000 cases a week after all, and inevitably some will be in this age group.

    Not much of a comfort to the parents of course, but the wider evidence afaics still seems to be that schools don't seem to increase spread much.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535
    Mail Online: "Tory anger explodes"

    Say what you like about the Mail but it knows the beating heart of its readership
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Scott_xP said:
    I know nothing of the inner workings of the Tory Party but one thing I gleaned from my posting here last year is that Boris is, apparently, not well loved in the Parliamentary Party, he was seen as a means to an end. Surely he realises this - why is he alienating it further?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,529
    ydoethur said:

    Makes this afternoon even less explicable. Boris or a minion could have done a low key "Dom understands people's concerns, Cabinet Secretary has promised a report will be on PM's desk Friday, keep calm, carry on and remain indoors unless permitted." Deflate the story by boring the hell out of everyone.

    Instead, we've seen the stakes doubled, the PM looking strange, confused and shifty again, and the PM has kept the story going.

    Makes no sense.
    You’re assuming they’re rational and intelligent, and trying to act sensibly.

    This is a bold assumption.
    No, they're politicians - its a different mindset.

    Now does being a politician lead to that mindset or does politics attract people with that mindset ?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,503
    houndtang said:

    Excellent header. We can't live like this, it's unnatural.
    Apparently primary school children will be in 'bubbles' than can''t interact with the kids in the other 'bubbles' even in the playground. Three year olds in nurseries will have to sit and play alone.
    If you want to cause kids mental health problems, these policies sound like excellent ways of achieving this.

    If you want normality to resume, and lockdown to go, then support strict quarantine measures to protect normality.

    Track, Trace, Isolate if you want no second wave.

    Quarantine and lockdown are not the same, they are alternatives. Johnson and Cummings have just done a Cleveland Steamer on the prospect of quarantine working.
  • Cyclefree said:

    The Tories have always suffered from a perception that they do not understand the problems of ordinary people, that they are not one of us, that they don’t get people’s wishes.

    Boris’s USP was that he seemed to be just such a person - despite his background. That he was “in touch”. It was Labour leaders who were seen as out of touch, Corbyn especially.

    Now Boris has damaged that USP. He comes across as someone who not only thinks the rules don’t apply to him and his mates but doesn’t understand why others are furious/upset at this. He comes across as arrogant and entitled - just like the traditional view of Tories.

    Like I said before, Johnson won by being a new Tory, like we hadn't just had 10 years of Tory Government.

    I wondered how he managed to do that. Doesn't matter anymore, that is shattered.
  • Makes this afternoon even less explicable. Boris or a minion could have done a low key "Dom understands people's concerns, Cabinet Secretary has promised a report will be on PM's desk Friday, keep calm, carry on and remain indoors unless permitted." Deflate the story by boring the hell out of everyone.

    Instead, we've seen the stakes doubled, the PM looking strange, confused and shifty again, and the PM has kept the story going.

    Makes no sense.
    This is, indeed, the weirdest thing of all.

    How can they have imagined for one moment that the PM fronting it up, without any contrition, explanation, or willingness to answer a straight question, would have helped resolve it?

    How on earth did they not see it was pouring petrol onto the fire?

    What is wrong at the heart of the operation?
    You have a sociopath trying to explain his problems away, that is why.
    That may be so.

    Cummings think he is the cleverest in the room, whether he's talking politics with politicians, medicine with doctors, statistics with statisticians, or PR with PR people.

    The ego on it!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    If you want an example of how to close a story down quickly. PC MP accused of assaulting his wife, out the party in a few hours, 99.99999% of the public have no idea about this story.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    edited May 2020
    eadric said:

    Big dom for his supposed political genius...they could have closed this story down in half a day, nobody would have noticed as nice bank holiday, and been back in government in 6 months.

    Yes, as I said on Friday. Sack him and earn the plaudits for firm and fair leadership, rehire him as a *consultant* on August 19th. And quietly ask him his advice interim. Basically zero damage, indeed possible political gains, and you still get to keep Dom Cummings as your boffin for the end-stage of Brexit

    Now the party is in open revolt, and they've lost the Daily Mail, and the tenure of the PM is in doubt

    Witlessly stupid, but also weird
    See Prof Pantsdown is still advising the government and i bet if it looks like a second wave is coming he will be back in the meetings in person.
  • I've had a couple of texts to say Cummings family have a new line about grieving for a lost brother.

    Any info on this?

    His uncle died in early April. He was in London when he passed away, whilst Classic Dom had already departed for Durham at the end of March.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,246

    I've had a couple of texts to say Cummings family have a new line about grieving for a lost brother.

    Any info on this?

    Cummings’ mother has said they wanted to be together as her brother had died.

    Not a terribly plausible explanation as (1) he didn’t die until after Cummings had done his chicken run and (2) the brother in question also lived in London.

    It’s just another attempt to dodge the truth - which is that he wanted to be locked down in a house with a nice garden.
  • I've had a couple of texts to say Cummings family have a new line about grieving for a lost brother.

    Any info on this?

    He's just digging himself into a deeper hole.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535

    Big dom for his supposed political genius...they could have closed this story down in half a day, nobody would have noticed as nice bank holiday, and been back in government in 6 months.

    Worse. He might have pulled off a full on apology and some guff about panicking as he was sick and he has a child to look after.

    Could all have been over by now.

    But thats what little people do, the ordinary people, the ones who watch the news and follow the guidelines, the ones who graft away in ordinary jobs hoping for a bit of pension and a few years with the grandkids.

    The Übermenschs on the other hand. They reach for the stars.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,871

    What does Cummings have? A detailed list of exactly where and when each cabinet minister broke lockdown?

    Whatever he has, it must be political dynamite.

    Johnson made a move on the now Mrs Cummings. Old chap out and everything. Would make the most awful kiss and tell story
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,922

    I've had a couple of texts to say Cummings family have a new line about grieving for a lost brother.

    Any info on this?

    https://twitter.com/harrytlambert/status/1264650700883136514

    But apparently the Uncle died, in London...
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900

    Big dom for his supposed political genius...they could have closed this story down in half a day, nobody would have noticed as nice bank holiday, and been back in government in 6 months.

    He doesn't seem to understand that it's not going to be let go, with him having made enemies of everyone - not just the usual suspects and FBPE types, but most of the wider media class and a large chunk of the Tory backbenches. They're all happily queuing up to stick the knife in, and eventually Johnson will discard him.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,831
    eadric said:

    I want to make an open and comprehensive offer to PB Tories.

    Join our cause, a strong and stable Government in the national interest can be achieved.

    Fuck off
    You don't like being usurped on wry, acute comments do you.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,129
    edited May 2020

    I've had a couple of texts to say Cummings family have a new line about grieving for a lost brother.

    Any info on this?

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2020/05/exclusive-dominic-cummings-parents-defend-their-son-he-faces-demands-resign

    A few minor problems with this new wheeze:

    1. The uncle was dying in LONDON.

    2. The rules were clear that you should NOT be with ill or grieving relatives, and many suffered as a result of following that rule.

    3. Particularly - but by no means only - if you had symptoms.

    Other than that, it's a good line from the very stable geniuses that the Cummings family plainly believe themselves to be.
  • I've had a couple of texts to say Cummings family have a new line about grieving for a lost brother.

    Any info on this?

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2020/05/exclusive-dominic-cummings-parents-defend-their-son-he-faces-demands-resign

    A few minor problems with this new wheeze:

    1. The uncle was dying in LONDON.

    2. The rules were clear that you should NOT be with ill or grieving relatives, and many suffered as a result of following that rule.

    3. Particularly - but by no means only - if you had symptoms.

    Other than that, it's a good line from the very stable geniuses that the Cummings family plainly are.
    His Mummy coming out to bat for him is just a bit pathetic if I am honest
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,503

    What is the largest polling swing in a week?

    I don’t think the polls will change much. People are not engaged in party politics at the moment.
    But what is the largest polling swing in a week?
    In the last year we saw lots of big swings.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781

    Big dom for his supposed political genius...they could have closed this story down in half a day, nobody would have noticed as nice bank holiday, and been back in government in 6 months.

    Worse. He might have pulled off a full on apology and some guff about panicking as he was sick and he has a child to look after.

    Could all have been over by now.

    But thats what little people do, the ordinary people, the ones who watch the news and follow the guidelines, the ones who graft away in ordinary jobs hoping for a bit of pension and a few years with the grandkids.

    The Übermenschs on the other hand. They reach for the stars.
    Yes, Boris could have come out and said look thus is serious, must abide by the rules, nobody above it, all in this together, know is hard, but know personally how evil this virus is, yadda yadda yadda.

    Big Dom does puff pieces about scared for family, kid, etc

    And other than the Guardian / Twitter, at most people hear that weird bloke had it and resigned.....oh look the pubs open for takeaway....beer...

    And come the autumn he gets rehired.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    What does Cummings have? A detailed list of exactly where and when each cabinet minister broke lockdown?

    Whatever he has, it must be political dynamite.

    Johnson made a move on the now Mrs Cummings. Old chap out and everything. Would make the most awful kiss and tell story

    I've had a couple of texts to say Cummings family have a new line about grieving for a lost brother.

    Any info on this?

    His uncle died in early April. He was in London when he passed away, whilst Classic Dom had already departed for Durham at the end of March.
    I think the angle was supposed to be he went up to comfort his grieving parents. If so then there is no hope for him.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,280
    eadric said:

    Well, I was wrong, he's made it to Monday night.

    I doubt he will make it beyond the Bank Holiday.

    Today is Sunday?
    Every day is like Sunday - in the 1970’s.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    I've had a couple of texts to say Cummings family have a new line about grieving for a lost brother.

    Any info on this?

    Cummings's family text you?

    I am not sure if I am impressed :D:D
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,999
    I think you guys don't give enough credit.

    Yesterday and today he agonised over whether he should be required to resign.

    But in the end Cummings could think of no-one to replace him, so Boris had to stay.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535

    I've had a couple of texts to say Cummings family have a new line about grieving for a lost brother.

    Any info on this?

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2020/05/exclusive-dominic-cummings-parents-defend-their-son-he-faces-demands-resign

    A few minor problems with this new wheeze:

    1. The uncle was dying in LONDON.

    2. The rules were clear that you should NOT be with ill or grieving relatives, and many suffered as a result of following that rule.

    3. Particularly - but by no means only - if you had symptoms.

    Other than that, it's a good line from the very stable geniuses that the Cummings family plainly are.
    His Mummy coming out to bat for him is just a bit pathetic if I am honest
    Fuck me. It just gets worse.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    Makes this afternoon even less explicable. Boris or a minion could have done a low key "Dom understands people's concerns, Cabinet Secretary has promised a report will be on PM's desk Friday, keep calm, carry on and remain indoors unless permitted." Deflate the story by boring the hell out of everyone.

    Instead, we've seen the stakes doubled, the PM looking strange, confused and shifty again, and the PM has kept the story going.

    Makes no sense.
    This is, indeed, the weirdest thing of all.

    How can they have imagined for one moment that the PM fronting it up, without any contrition, explanation, or willingness to answer a straight question, would have helped resolve it?

    How on earth did they not see it was pouring petrol onto the fire?

    What is wrong at the heart of the operation?
    Johnson seems to have believed he could win with a slogan just as he did with "get Brexit done" in the last election. So he trots out "acted responsibly, legally and with integrity" on a loop. Johnson wouldn't recognise responsibility, legality and integrity if they bit him in the ass, so it was an interesting selection of words. More important, it missed any awareness of the problem or explanation for it.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    What is the largest polling swing in a week?

    I don’t think the polls will change much. People are not engaged in party politics at the moment.
    There’s been a pretty massive swing in leader approval ratings though
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited May 2020
    eadric said:

    isam said:

    eadric said:

    Jonathan said:

    There is a lot of frustration, fear and anger about the CV lockdown. This goes far beyond Cummings. Cummings is a catalyst.

    Boris has unwittingly positioned his government to be the recipient of all of that.

    The question is why. What was worse than that?

    Indeed. I guess that maybe Cummings' sudden departure would expose Boris fatally, in some way. But how?
    Cummings has been trying to arrange his own departure since Boris became PM. He was scheduled to have an op in Feb, and wanted to quit/do a lot less afterwards
    That doesn't make any sense at all. If it is true then why didn't he just quit on Friday evening and spare the boss all this arse-ache?
    It is true

    August 2019

    "Cummings had to make a proper sacrifice to take the job; Johnson talked him into cancelling a surgical procedure, serious enough to warrant general anesthetic, which had been scheduled for three days later, when Johnson formally became PM.

    He promised his wife, the journalist Mary Wakefield, that he would reschedule the operation for the week following 31 October and only after the op would he then discuss with Johnson what - if any - his future role in government would be.

    I cannot judge whether Cummings will return after the surgery. I understand it depends on his health, the views of his wife, and whether he and Johnson can agree on a long-term role that would suit them both. Pimpernel-like, he may vanish again."


    https://www.itv.com/news/2019-08-09/the-truth-about-dominic-cummings-writes-robert-peston/

    Dec 2019


    "Dominic Cummings, the Prime Minister’s most senior adviser, will quit his role in the New Year if he is unable to negotiate a pared back position in Downing Street, i can reveal.

    Mr Cummings, who is widely credited for masterminding both Brexit and the Tories’ thumping election victory, is due to take a leave of absence in February for an operation that has been repeatedly postponed since he joined the Government"

    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/dominic-cummings-could-quit-boris-johnsons-government-if-hes-unable-to-cut-down-hours-1345990
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,600
    Foxy said:

    houndtang said:

    Excellent header. We can't live like this, it's unnatural.
    Apparently primary school children will be in 'bubbles' than can''t interact with the kids in the other 'bubbles' even in the playground. Three year olds in nurseries will have to sit and play alone.
    If you want to cause kids mental health problems, these policies sound like excellent ways of achieving this.

    If you want normality to resume, and lockdown to go, then support strict quarantine measures to protect normality.

    Track, Trace, Isolate if you want no second wave.

    Quarantine and lockdown are not the same, they are alternatives. Johnson and Cummings have just done a Cleveland Steamer on the prospect of quarantine working.
    God I had to look up 'Cleveland Steamer' and now wish I hadn't. I must have had a blissfully innocent life.

    Amusingly though there is a company that makes Cleveland Steamers

    https://www.clevelandrange.com/Products/Steamers
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,873
    edited May 2020
    Cabinet on tomorrow should be interesting

    Today was Boris's 'Gerard Ratner' moment
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,529

    Makes this afternoon even less explicable. Boris or a minion could have done a low key "Dom understands people's concerns, Cabinet Secretary has promised a report will be on PM's desk Friday, keep calm, carry on and remain indoors unless permitted." Deflate the story by boring the hell out of everyone.

    Instead, we've seen the stakes doubled, the PM looking strange, confused and shifty again, and the PM has kept the story going.

    Makes no sense.
    This is, indeed, the weirdest thing of all.

    How can they have imagined for one moment that the PM fronting it up, without any contrition, explanation, or willingness to answer a straight question, would have helped resolve it?

    How on earth did they not see it was pouring petrol onto the fire?

    What is wrong at the heart of the operation?
    You have a sociopath trying to explain his problems away, that is why.
    That may be so.

    Cummings think he is the cleverest in the room, whether he's talking politics with politicians, medicine with doctors, statistics with statisticians, or PR with PR people.

    The ego on it!
    He might well be.

    And that might be the source of problems.

    Because problems in life often arise from thinking yourself cleverer than you are.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,831
    It is unfortunate for Cummings that the whole country is frustrated and has a huge amount of pent up energy waiting to be unleashed.

    He happened to be the person that was at the right time and place and with adequate reason to satisfy that need.

    Whether he was right or wrong in what he did is immaterial.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,246
    eadric said:

    Prediction: he will be gone by noon tomorrow

    https://twitter.com/timloughton/status/1264669836447305733?s=20

    If so, after that press conference Johnson will have to go too.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Best prices - Next Con Leader

    Sunak 7/2
    Gove 10/1
    Raab 14/1
    Hunt 16/1
    Javid 20/1
    Mordaunt 25/1
    Patel 25/1
    Tugendhat 25/1

    Sunak looks a massive lay
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,529
    eadric said:

    Big dom for his supposed political genius...they could have closed this story down in half a day, nobody would have noticed as nice bank holiday, and been back in government in 6 months.

    Yes, as I said on Friday. Sack him and earn the plaudits for firm and fair leadership, rehire him as a *consultant* on August 19th. And quietly ask him his advice interim. Basically zero damage, indeed possible political gains, and you still get to keep Dom Cummings as your boffin for the end-stage of Brexit

    Now the party is in open revolt, and they've lost the Daily Mail, and the tenure of the PM is in doubt

    Witlessly stupid, but also weird
    It would be interesting to know who was involved in the decision making process.

    It can be all too easy to convince yourself of what you want to believe.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535
    Thats the Manchester doctor who killed 100s.

    Bridge too far?
  • Is it possible Johnson broke the lockdown rules too, is that what Johnson has on him
  • glwglw Posts: 9,892
    rcs1000 said:

    I think you guys don't give enough credit.

    Yesterday and today he agonised over whether he should be required to resign.

    But in the end Cummings could think of no-one to replace him, so Boris had to stay.

    Yep, finding someone with similar brains, ego, and the human touch would be very tricky, and besides that Elon Musk is far too busy at the moment.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,600
    eadric said:

    Prediction: he will be gone by noon tomorrow

    https://twitter.com/timloughton/status/1264669836447305733?s=20

    Why the regret?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,645

    I've had a couple of texts to say Cummings family have a new line about grieving for a lost brother.

    Any info on this?

    He's just digging himself into a deeper hole.
    He is.

    That would certainly not be an allowable reason to drive 260 miles which is why he made up the child care one
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535
    eadric said:

    Prediction: he will be gone by noon tomorrow

    https://twitter.com/timloughton/status/1264669836447305733?s=20

    I predicted tomorrow evening when this broke.

    We shall see.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    TOPPING said:

    It is unfortunate for Cummings that the whole country is frustrated and has a huge amount of pent up energy waiting to be unleashed.

    He happened to be the person that was at the right time and place and with adequate reason to satisfy that need.

    Whether he was right or wrong in what he did is immaterial.

    He must know that he has a lot of enemies & so they will look for anything done wrong...see the whole SAGE stuff. The thought that nobody would notice in his street not being there for two weeks or people wouldn't see him walking about in the NE....its idiot level stuff.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,645

    Thats the Manchester doctor who killed 100s.

    Bridge too far?
    Oh that GP bloke!!

    Who is the younger one?
This discussion has been closed.