Has anyone issued any sort of refutation of the witnesses yet? Ps. This explains a lot of Starmer's tactics since being elected. Broadly supportive but anxious to implant the idea they don't really know what they are doing. Out of sadness and concern, not anger. He knew about this when the Guardian and Mirror did.
I suspect, but cannot prove, that the Mirror and the Guardian have been verifying their sources for the last few weeks to strengthen this witness evidence.
They have played him beautifully today. They set an elephant trap and he egotistically walked straight into it. Like most civil servants, he despised them and they outsmarted him.
Where is Boris? Why is he investing so much scarce political capital in Dom? They risk turning this into a bigger thing.
Is it pride or fear about Dom’s revenge?
Boris is afraid of the Press. All his bluster is just that. He was a rubbish reporter and he is proving to be a cr*p PM. His first term as London Mayor seems to have been the pinnacle of his success.
He isn't actually - this govt. have cared less about the dead tree press than any administration in my lifetime. May, Brown, Blair - all seemed absolutely obsessed. Cameron was better at seeing the difference between the papers and the people, but his govt were far from immune to it.
Listening to Classic FM, the ads were dominated by government announcements on the importance of staying at home, respecting quarantine, not taking unnecessary journeys etc.
Then the news bulletins were headlined by Cummings ignoring all that.
This will not have played well with the overwhelmingly Tory listeners.
If Beth Rigby's report earlier this evening is accurate, doesn't this mean that Cummings in fact made not two but at least THREE separate visits to Durham during the lockdown period ... how could he possibly have expected to keep all three such visits under wraps?
One of David Cameron's top aides ended up in prison and PB was full of comments about how that meant Dave would lose the 2015 election if he hadn't be replaced beforehand.
If the gag's not been already been made I think the resignation letter by Mr Cummings will be about 20,000 words long.
"... you are not to infer from this anything other than that they consider the evidence against them so flimsy that it was scarcely worth their while to rise from their seats and waste their breath denying these ludicrous charges."
The single most concerning aspect about this farrago is Downing Street’s complete indifference to the truth. Not, as is usually meant by that phrase, a willingness to lie. That would show some relationship with the truth, albeit a hostile one.
Downing Street simply doesn’t have truth on its radar at all in its management of this. All that matters is what makes for the best story in the circumstances, no matter how childish the lies and how easily disprovable they are.
Where is Boris? Why is he investing so much scarce political capital in Dom? They risk turning this into a bigger thing.
Is it pride or fear about Dom’s revenge?
Boris is afraid of the Press. All his bluster is just that. He was a rubbish reporter and he is proving to be a cr*p PM. His first term as London Mayor seems to have been the pinnacle of his success.
He isn't actually - this govt. have cared less about the dead tree press than any administration in my lifetime. May, Brown, Blair - all seemed absolutely obsessed. Cameron was better at seeing the difference between the papers and the people, but his govt were far from immune to it.
If by "cared less" you mean "try to pretend they do not exist" then you may be right. Sadly for Boris et al, ignoring the Press and Media does not make them go away...
If Beth Rigby's report earlier this evening is accurate, doesn't this mean that Cummings in fact made not two but at least THREE separate visits to Durham during the lockdown period ... how could he possibly have expected to keep all three such visits under wraps?
Apparently they never happened. The Press woke up to find Cummings in the shower. It was all a dream.....
One of David Cameron's top aides ended up in prison and PB was full of comments about how that meant Dave would lose the 2015 election if he hadn't be replaced beforehand.
If the gag's not been already been made I think the resignation letter by Mr Cummings will be about 20,000 words long.
Which Cameron aide was that ?
That I've totally forgotten about it shows that it didn't turn out to be as important as was claimed at the time.
Where is Boris? Why is he investing so much scarce political capital in Dom? They risk turning this into a bigger thing.
Is it pride or fear about Dom’s revenge?
Boris is afraid of the Press. All his bluster is just that. He was a rubbish reporter and he is proving to be a cr*p PM. His first term as London Mayor seems to have been the pinnacle of his success.
He isn't actually - this govt. have cared less about the dead tree press than any administration in my lifetime. May, Brown, Blair - all seemed absolutely obsessed. Cameron was better at seeing the difference between the papers and the people, but his govt were far from immune to it.
If by "cared less" you mean "try to pretend they do not exist" then you may be right. Sadly for Boris et al, ignoring the Press and Media does not make them go away...
Newspapers don't vote - and increasingly they don't change reader's perceptions, either.
If Beth Rigby's report earlier this evening is accurate, doesn't this mean that Cummings in fact made not two but at least THREE separate visits to Durham during the lockdown period ... how could he possibly have expected to keep all three such visits under wraps?
If not, then Johnson’s toast. He’s now accused the press of lying, when Cummings has essentially admitted their stories are true.
Where has Cummings admitted the return to Durham was true?
That’s not what I was thinking of. They are claiming today’s stories were inaccurate. Cummings has admitted they were accurate, although he disputed the interpretation placed on them.
Bluntly, the only grounds on which it could be claimed they were ‘inaccurate’ is if it had been shown he stayed in London.
Of course, their further claims are almost certainly false as well. But that almost becomes irrelevant if they are going down the Trumpian path.
Actually I am not really bothered by this Dom thing or whether he stays or goes.
What is really important is that Boris next week delivers substantive progress on releasing the lockdown from 1 June ie as a minimum - enables all non essential retail to open - gets the schools open - allows families to meet without restriction.
If we don't get that then the support for the government will really start to fall away
If you remember when we were predicting what the announcement would be earlier this month, I basically got it bang on. Little change, garden centres, tips etc.
Well, I'm afraid I don't see the 1st June deadline being met. This big serological study suggesting still over 100k infections was the clincher for me - just can't see how opening up non essential retail, schools or reducing social distancing is the right thing for now.
Mid June - maybe.
Agreed it may not be 1 June but the public's patience and tolerance is running out. Apart from what appears to be a substantial proportion of the population who appear to be content to sit at home and stay on furlough forever.
Some progress on the track and trace would be helpful as a proper system would help with easing restrictions.
But basically everything is taking too long.
I'm just not sure the patience is running out - an awful lot of people who I speak to were worried about the 1st June date. I think the studied ambiguity of the 'stay alert' guidance allows both lockdowners and easers some latitude as to their own activities. Trains are still VERY quiet. I suspect airports etc are too.
My fear is as soon as shops start reopening, an attempt to try and return to normality won't be far behind.
I agree with you. The rate of infections is still too high to meet even the government's tests for significantly easing the lockdown, and is also too high for the track and trace system (even if it were to work well) to capture all outbreaks. Infections are now significantly lower in most other European countries than here.
Most people I know, including those in their 20s and 30s, are still quite fearful, and although many have started meeting up with individual friends they are avoiding group activities of all sorts; they wouldn't yet go to the pubs even if they were open. The idea that the young have become blase about the virus doesn't seem to me to be accurate.
It depends a great deal on who is still getting infected and what the effect is.
If its people in low risk groups and they're not getting hit too hard then that's helping to build herd immunity.
One of David Cameron's top aides ended up in prison and PB was full of comments about how that meant Dave would lose the 2015 election if he hadn't be replaced beforehand.
If the gag's not been already been made I think the resignation letter by Mr Cummings will be about 20,000 words long.
Which Cameron aide was that ?
That I've totally forgotten about it shows that it didn't turn out to be as important as was claimed at the time.
Andy Coulson. The aide who warned David Cameron against employing Dominic Cummings.
Where is Boris? Why is he investing so much scarce political capital in Dom? They risk turning this into a bigger thing.
Is it pride or fear about Dom’s revenge?
Boris is afraid of the Press. All his bluster is just that. He was a rubbish reporter and he is proving to be a cr*p PM. His first term as London Mayor seems to have been the pinnacle of his success.
He isn't actually - this govt. have cared less about the dead tree press than any administration in my lifetime. May, Brown, Blair - all seemed absolutely obsessed. Cameron was better at seeing the difference between the papers and the people, but his govt were far from immune to it.
If by "cared less" you mean "try to pretend they do not exist" then you may be right. Sadly for Boris et al, ignoring the Press and Media does not make them go away...
Newspapers don't vote - and increasingly they don't change reader's perceptions, either.
Social media does and that ain’t looking great for them either
One of David Cameron's top aides ended up in prison and PB was full of comments about how that meant Dave would lose the 2015 election if he hadn't be replaced beforehand.
If the gag's not been already been made I think the resignation letter by Mr Cummings will be about 20,000 words long.
Which Cameron aide was that ?
That I've totally forgotten about it shows that it didn't turn out to be as important as was claimed at the time.
Andy Coulson. Put in the slammer for perjury in the Tommy Sheridan trial as I recall.
May 2020: Still 80 seats, but now a lame duck administration waiting for the public to kick them out.
That's what they said about Westland and a hundred other political scandals.
The reality is that major electoral shifts happen only very rarely.
Matthew Parris said Westland marked the passing of Maggie's noon, though many more years in power awaited her. I have to say this has a similar feel to it: the best bits for Boris may have already gone.
Well Thatcher had another 4.5 years as PM together with another GE victory.
I'm suspect Boris would not decline that.
Maggie had political talent. Boris has bluster.
If Boris does not get his act together he will be doing well to survive another 4.5 months.
I love that this falls tantalisingly short of actually saying Cummings did not visit Durham after 14 April. Because, of course, he did.
This is going to be some sort of stupid "he can't have returned because he never left" nonsense.
"The allegation that I was cavorting in a seedy sex club in Luton on 13th November, snorting cocaine from a prostitute's breasts while wearing a blue mankini that left nothing to the imagination is inaccurate" means "it was actually mauve".
If Downing Street are saying Dom didn't go back for a 2nd time, and it turns out to be true, then that's a very good defence against this. If however he really did, then WTF is Johnson on?
If Beth Rigby's report earlier this evening is accurate, doesn't this mean that Cummings in fact made not two but at least THREE separate visits to Durham during the lockdown period ... how could he possibly have expected to keep all three such visits under wraps?
Apparently they never happened. The Press woke up to find Cummings in the shower. It was all a dream.....
That is quite a repulsive image you have conjured up, unless he showers fully attired.
One of David Cameron's top aides ended up in prison and PB was full of comments about how that meant Dave would lose the 2015 election if he hadn't be replaced beforehand.
If the gag's not been already been made I think the resignation letter by Mr Cummings will be about 20,000 words long.
Which Cameron aide was that ?
That I've totally forgotten about it shows that it didn't turn out to be as important as was claimed at the time.
Andy Coulson. Put in the slammer for perjury in the Tommy Sheridan trial as I recall.
That's right I remember now, vaguely.
How did I ever forget tim's thousands of comments about him.
If Beth Rigby's report earlier this evening is accurate, doesn't this mean that Cummings in fact made not two but at least THREE separate visits to Durham during the lockdown period ... how could he possibly have expected to keep all three such visits under wraps?
Apparently they never happened. The Press woke up to find Cummings in the shower. It was all a dream.....
That is quite a repulsive image you have conjured up, unless he showers fully attired.
May 2020: Still 80 seats, but now a lame duck administration waiting for the public to kick them out.
That's what they said about Westland and a hundred other political scandals.
The reality is that major electoral shifts happen only very rarely.
Matthew Parris said Westland marked the passing of Maggie's noon, though many more years in power awaited her. I have to say this has a similar feel to it: the best bits for Boris may have already gone.
Well Thatcher had another 4.5 years as PM together with another GE victory.
I'm suspect Boris would not decline that.
Maggie had political talent. Boris has bluster.
If Boris does not get his act together he will be doing well to survive another 4.5 months.
Different eras require different skillsets.
This is the era of bluster.
If that were true Starmers fooked
I think todays antics will drive more people away from bluster.
Next VI taken entirely after tonight should show a massive narrowing IMO
Where is Boris? Why is he investing so much scarce political capital in Dom? They risk turning this into a bigger thing.
Is it pride or fear about Dom’s revenge?
Boris is afraid of the Press. All his bluster is just that. He was a rubbish reporter and he is proving to be a cr*p PM. His first term as London Mayor seems to have been the pinnacle of his success.
He isn't actually - this govt. have cared less about the dead tree press than any administration in my lifetime. May, Brown, Blair - all seemed absolutely obsessed. Cameron was better at seeing the difference between the papers and the people, but his govt were far from immune to it.
They've just won an election. They have an 80-seat majority. Why don't they just ignore the press and get on with their day job: running the country using scientific advice to deal with a difficult, unprecedented situation? It's obviously a big risk to predict an event 4 years hence, but I'm fairly confident that by May 2024 none of this will matter, no-one will remember it and not a single vote will have changed because of it. This doesn't mean I'm predicting a nailed-on Tory majority, only that the election will depend on much else to transpire over the next 4 years.
I'm not even sure why Tories are desperate to support Dom.
He's not even a Tory.
People underestimate the bond between politicians and close associates who they trust (cf. advisers to Blair, May and Corbyn who stayed on long after they were widely disliked by colleagues). Dogged loyalty lasts a long time.
May 2020: Still 80 seats, but now a lame duck administration waiting for the public to kick them out.
That's what they said about Westland and a hundred other political scandals.
The reality is that major electoral shifts happen only very rarely.
Matthew Parris said Westland marked the passing of Maggie's noon, though many more years in power awaited her. I have to say this has a similar feel to it: the best bits for Boris may have already gone.
Well Thatcher had another 4.5 years as PM together with another GE victory.
I'm suspect Boris would not decline that.
Maggie had political talent. Boris has bluster.
If Boris does not get his act together he will be doing well to survive another 4.5 months.
Different eras require different skillsets.
This is the era of bluster.
If that were true Starmers fooked
I think todays antics will drive more people away from bluster.
Next VI taken entirely after tonight should show a massive narrowing IMO
I go for an 8 pt Tory lead
That's certainly possible.
But I think this is still the era of bluster - although people might prefer the bluster of someone else.
Because I don't think people want to face reality about the unsustainability of much of our lifestyles and economics.
If Beth Rigby's report earlier this evening is accurate, doesn't this mean that Cummings in fact made not two but at least THREE separate visits to Durham during the lockdown period ... how could he possibly have expected to keep all three such visits under wraps?
Apparently they never happened. The Press woke up to find Cummings in the shower. It was all a dream.....
That is quite a repulsive image you have conjured up, unless he showers fully attired.
I blame the Ewings ....
Dom is no Bobby Ewing. Bobby was yummy
I remember Dallas well. I also remember the Simpsons. Cummings is more Mr Burns than Bobby Ewing.
Sorry, I couldn't care less about what Cummings did. I didn't about Ferguson or Calderwood. Yes, they are hypocrites. But how many of us can say that we are not at some point or another?
Mate, I haven't been further than 100ft from my house since lockdown started.
"Ooooooh we're all hypocrites" as a defence can fuck the right off
The problem this government faces is that their stock of political capital is unlikely to be replenished for a very long time. The economic picture will not afford many opportunities for good news. So why spend a cent of it defending Dom?
I don’t get it, especially when he’s just an advisor whose big political project is now superseded by events.
Disposable.
This is not about protecting Cummings is my guess. It’s about protecting Boris.
What did Boris know about the trip up to the NE with sick wife and child and when did he know it?
My guess is that Boris either knew, approved or turned a blind eye to the 1st NE visit.
Comments
Tbf Davey was on C4 News earlier and was quite restrained & statesmanlike, but maybe that corner of the market has been taken over currently.
@Andrew_Adonis
I know what Tony Blair would have done
Presumably invaded Iraq as a distraction
Then the news bulletins were headlined by Cummings ignoring all that.
This will not have played well with the overwhelmingly Tory listeners.
If not, then Johnson’s toast. He’s now accused the press of lying, when Cummings has essentially admitted their stories are true.
If the gag's not been already been made I think the resignation letter by Mr Cummings will be about 20,000 words long.
Downing Street simply doesn’t have truth on its radar at all in its management of this. All that matters is what makes for the best story in the circumstances, no matter how childish the lies and how easily disprovable they are.
Are they on drugs? Or are they more terminally stupid than any of us believed.
Or is Cummings issuing his own denials about his own behaviour?
WTF is going on????
Do they think there is more to come?
That I've totally forgotten about it shows that it didn't turn out to be as important as was claimed at the time.
Bluntly, the only grounds on which it could be claimed they were ‘inaccurate’ is if it had been shown he stayed in London.
Of course, their further claims are almost certainly false as well. But that almost becomes irrelevant if they are going down the Trumpian path.
If the Guardian / Mirror happen to be wrong about this...
If its people in low risk groups and they're not getting hit too hard then that's helping to build herd immunity.
This is the era of bluster.
Brave.
This thread MUST resign!
How did I ever forget tim's thousands of comments about him.
Dom is no Bobby Ewing. Bobby was yummy
I think todays antics will drive more people away from bluster.
Next VI taken entirely after tonight should show a massive narrowing IMO
I go for an 8 pt Tory lead
The way out of the coming economic wastelands will define the government and that is anyone's guess
But I think this is still the era of bluster - although people might prefer the bluster of someone else.
Because I don't think people want to face reality about the unsustainability of much of our lifestyles and economics.
"Ooooooh we're all hypocrites" as a defence can fuck the right off
Go for it lads, give it laldy.
What did Boris know about the trip up to the NE with sick wife and child and when did he know it?
My guess is that Boris either knew, approved or turned a blind eye to the 1st NE visit.
Did he know about all the other trips, though?