There's a lot riding on that word "access". Did he have "access" to family. If the nearest family was that far away I would argue "no" and he should have, as the next resort, to the local authority.
the nearest family are in London
And he is a key worker so would have access to local council childcare.
Please answer this
Would you hand your children to the local council rather than family, irrespective of how far they are away
Or put it another way - would you carry a highly contagious potentially lethal virus to somewhere where the contagion rate was very low in preference to temporarily handing your children to the care of the local council until you recover?
Cummings desperately needs a Govt scientist to come out now and say he acted with the rules....
I am sad to say that I think Cummings will have to go.
Not sad for the man. He was a fool to break the rules in the way he did and think he was above reprimand for it. It was an arrogance that has always typified him from what I have seen.
But I am sad for two specific reasons.
One because it gives a win to the scum who have always hated him simply because he was effective and on the opposite side from them in arguments- and I include a fair few on here in that description.
And two because he was undoubtedly right in the vast majority of things he did. He was a huge asset to both the Governance of this country and the Leave campaign.
But it appears that success then breeds, or rather reinforces, that arrogance.
No one should be above the law when people's lives are at stake, no one should get away with the crass hypocrisy he has displayed and no one should take the public for fools when trying to protect ones own career. He has done all these things and so should not survive.
Whether he will or not is something I am incapable of predicting.
As I said last night Boris could easily let him go for a while. Then rehire him in a different position in three months time. In the middle of summer. The opposition might bleat but no one would care.
He could head up his ARPA-style national AI centre. One of his better ideas.
One unnoticed fool in all this is Mary Wakefield, writing that article about the family’s corona experience. and clean forgetting the fact they were in Durham rather than London.
One unnoticed fool in all this is Mary Wakefield, writing that article about the family’s corona experience. and clean forgetting the fact they were in Durham rather than London.
That does smack of arrogance
Again, I think that Cummings in government is better for the Opposition than Cummings out. If this can be kept alive until after the recess then Starmer will have a field day. He remains a liability and he is not loved on the back benches.
"If the individuals do not have access to care support, formal care support or to family, they will be able to work through their local authority hubs."
There's a lot riding on that word "access". Did he have "access" to family. If the nearest family was that far away I would argue "no" and he should have, as the next resort, to the local authority.
I am not defending him but if anyone thinks any parent would hand their child to the local authority when family were available, no matter the distance, please declare so
I'm 100% sure they wouldn't but it is unlikely the law would take the view that the local authority is unsafe. It's not ideal but the purpose of the regs is to prevent virus spread. They will be interpreted in that light.
No one who loves their children will hand their children to a LA when family is available no matter the circumstances
Sure. Equally you wouldn’t drive the length of the country if you had friends nearby.
I am sad to say that I think Cummings will have to go.
Not sad for the man. He was a fool to break the rules in the way he did and think he was above reprimand for it. It was an arrogance that has always typified him from what I have seen.
But I am sad for two specific reasons.
One because it gives a win to the scum who have always hated him simply because he was effective and on the opposite side from them in arguments- and I include a fair few on here in that description.
And two because he was undoubtedly right in the vast majority of things he did. He was a huge asset to both the Governance of this country and the Leave campaign.
But it appears that success then breeds, or rather reinforces, that arrogance.
No one should be above the law when people's lives are at stake, no one should get away with the crass hypocrisy he has displayed and no one should take the public for fools when trying to protect ones own career. He has done all these things and so should not survive.
Whether he will or not is something I am incapable of predicting.
He took on education with the brief to decentralise it.
He ended with a vastly more centralised education system.
He was completely wrong.
I have been telling people for months that he problem with Cummings is that he’s vain as a peacock, but actually pretty dim. The civil servants at the DfE, who lord knows are hardly candidates for MENSA, ran rings round him.
There's a lot riding on that word "access". Did he have "access" to family. If the nearest family was that far away I would argue "no" and he should have, as the next resort, to the local authority.
the nearest family are in London
And he is a key worker so would have access to local council childcare.
Please answer this
Would you hand your children to the local council rather than family, irrespective of how far they are away
While it is perfectly possible that Mrs Cummings is intractably estranged from her two brothers in London, do you really think that both of them are so loathed that neither has a single friend capable of looking after the child for a few days, located somewhere in the vast metropolis?
Come on BG, you can usually defend the indefensible better than this!
There's a lot riding on that word "access". Did he have "access" to family. If the nearest family was that far away I would argue "no" and he should have, as the next resort, to the local authority.
the nearest family are in London
Who are they and their relationship
What does that matter? Surely no 'parent would hand their child to the local authority when family were available'?
they have had the instructions from HQ and it is the same squad as ever. They are not too good at the spying game.
Nonsense. The Attorney General agreeing with the Police that there's no case to answer here which is why the Police haven't acted.
If someone calls in something and the Police attends that means no more or less than they were responding to a phone call. If the Police had taken it further then that would be a disagreement.
There's a lot riding on that word "access". Did he have "access" to family. If the nearest family was that far away I would argue "no" and he should have, as the next resort, to the local authority.
the nearest family are in London
Who are they and their relationship
What does that matter? Surely no 'parent would hand their child to the local authority when family were available'?
If your parents are available they would be first call
In normal circumstances, probably yes. But not when the family is infected - we know that this virus has significantly worse outcomes for older people. Why would anyone want to put their parents in grave danger? Utter lunacy!
There's a lot riding on that word "access". Did he have "access" to family. If the nearest family was that far away I would argue "no" and he should have, as the next resort, to the local authority.
the nearest family are in London
Who are they and their relationship
What does that matter? Surely no 'parent would hand their child to the local authority when family were available'?
If your parents are available they would be first call
Even when they're 250 miles and several toilet breaks away? Is there a sliding scale of distance when it comes to distant parents and other family in the same city?
I am sad to say that I think Cummings will have to go.
Not sad for the man. He was a fool to break the rules in the way he did and think he was above reprimand for it. It was an arrogance that has always typified him from what I have seen.
But I am sad for two specific reasons.
One because it gives a win to the scum who have always hated him simply because he was effective and on the opposite side from them in arguments- and I include a fair few on here in that description.
And two because he was undoubtedly right in the vast majority of things he did. He was a huge asset to both the Governance of this country and the Leave campaign.
But it appears that success then breeds, or rather reinforces, that arrogance.
No one should be above the law when people's lives are at stake, no one should get away with the crass hypocrisy he has displayed and no one should take the public for fools when trying to protect ones own career. He has done all these things and so should not survive.
Whether he will or not is something I am incapable of predicting.
He took on education with the brief to decentralise it.
He ended with a vastly more centralised education system.
He was completely wrong.
Cummings and his cabal of nutjobs and weirdos are pretty much wrong on everything. The British public will get to know this fairly quickly hence why I hope he stays on.
I hope he stays on too....come on Cummings hang in there...I love it that he hides behind his child on this one. The man who used a toddler to save his skin...what a hero....
One unnoticed fool in all this is Mary Wakefield, writing that article about the family’s corona experience. and clean forgetting the fact they were in Durham rather than London.
That does smack of arrogance
It’s impressive that she can’t tell the difference between Durham and London, although it does beg the question why she bothered moving.
I am sad to say that I think Cummings will have to go.
Not sad for the man. He was a fool to break the rules in the way he did and think he was above reprimand for it. It was an arrogance that has always typified him from what I have seen.
But I am sad for two specific reasons.
One because it gives a win to the scum who have always hated him simply because he was effective and on the opposite side from them in arguments- and I include a fair few on here in that description.
And two because he was undoubtedly right in the vast majority of things he did. He was a huge asset to both the Governance of this country and the Leave campaign.
But it appears that success then breeds, or rather reinforces, that arrogance.
No one should be above the law when people's lives are at stake, no one should get away with the crass hypocrisy he has displayed and no one should take the public for fools when trying to protect ones own career. He has done all these things and so should not survive.
Whether he will or not is something I am incapable of predicting.
As I said last night Boris could easily let him go for a while. Then rehire him in a different position in three months time. In the middle of summer. The opposition might bleat but no one would care.
But will the government listen to expert advice, even from PB’s in house hypocrite?
There's a lot riding on that word "access". Did he have "access" to family. If the nearest family was that far away I would argue "no" and he should have, as the next resort, to the local authority.
the nearest family are in London
Who are they and their relationship
What does that matter? Surely no 'parent would hand their child to the local authority when family were available'?
If your parents are available they would be first call
The government briefing claimed parents weren't involved. However the story has more holes in it than a sieve. Cummings needs simultaneously be laid low by the virus and be completely free of it, and various people, principally his wife, needs to be lying through their teeth
There's a lot riding on that word "access". Did he have "access" to family. If the nearest family was that far away I would argue "no" and he should have, as the next resort, to the local authority.
the nearest family are in London
And he is a key worker so would have access to local council childcare.
Please answer this
Would you hand your children to the local council rather than family, irrespective of how far they are away
While it is perfectly possible that Mrs Cummings is intractably estranged from her two brothers in London, do you really think that both of them are so loathed that neither has a single friend capable of looking after the child for a few days, located somewhere in the vast metropolis?
Come on BG, you can usually defend the indefensible better than this!
I am not defending Cummings but your children become your only concern and as I do not know the full story I am concerned he is subject to a witch hunt
There's a lot riding on that word "access". Did he have "access" to family. If the nearest family was that far away I would argue "no" and he should have, as the next resort, to the local authority.
the nearest family are in London
And he is a key worker so would have access to local council childcare.
Please answer this
Would you hand your children to the local council rather than family, irrespective of how far they are away
I'm not talking about full social care. I'm talking about six and a half hours a day nursery care.
"If the individuals do not have access to care support, formal care support or to family, they will be able to work through their local authority hubs."
There's a lot riding on that word "access". Did he have "access" to family. If the nearest family was that far away I would argue "no" and he should have, as the next resort, to the local authority.
I am not defending him but if anyone thinks any parent would hand their child to the local authority when family were available, no matter the distance, please declare so
I'm 100% sure they wouldn't but it is unlikely the law would take the view that the local authority is unsafe. It's not ideal but the purpose of the regs is to prevent virus spread. They will be interpreted in that light.
No one who loves their children will hand their children to a LA when family is available no matter the circumstances
Sure. Equally you wouldn’t drive the length of the country if you had friends nearby.
I am sad to say that I think Cummings will have to go.
Not sad for the man. He was a fool to break the rules in the way he did and think he was above reprimand for it. It was an arrogance that has always typified him from what I have seen.
But I am sad for two specific reasons.
One because it gives a win to the scum who have always hated him simply because he was effective and on the opposite side from them in arguments- and I include a fair few on here in that description.
And two because he was undoubtedly right in the vast majority of things he did. He was a huge asset to both the Governance of this country and the Leave campaign.
But it appears that success then breeds, or rather reinforces, that arrogance.
No one should be above the law when people's lives are at stake, no one should get away with the crass hypocrisy he has displayed and no one should take the public for fools when trying to protect ones own career. He has done all these things and so should not survive.
Whether he will or not is something I am incapable of predicting.
He took on education with the brief to decentralise it.
He ended with a vastly more centralised education system.
He was completely wrong.
Nope he was completely right. Just he was not allowed to finish the job. Vested interests saw to that. The need for massive radical reform of the management of the public sector including - or rather primarily - the Civil Service is long overdue. My only hope is that when Cummings goes , which he really should, Boris replaces him with someone even more radical who continues his work.
"If the individuals do not have access to care support, formal care support or to family, they will be able to work through their local authority hubs."
There's a lot riding on that word "access". Did he have "access" to family. If the nearest family was that far away I would argue "no" and he should have, as the next resort, to the local authority.
I am not defending him but if anyone thinks any parent would hand their child to the local authority when family were available, no matter the distance, please declare so
"If the individuals do not have access to care support, formal care support or to family, they will be able to work through their local authority hubs."
There's a lot riding on that word "access". Did he have "access" to family. If the nearest family was that far away I would argue "no" and he should have, as the next resort, to the local authority.
I am not defending him but if anyone thinks any parent would hand their child to the local authority when family were available, no matter the distance, please declare so
All those promoting the child saving bit are obviously doing it on instructions from CCHQ or are on the payroll or both.
There's a lot riding on that word "access". Did he have "access" to family. If the nearest family was that far away I would argue "no" and he should have, as the next resort, to the local authority.
the nearest family are in London
And he is a key worker so would have access to local council childcare.
Please answer this
Would you hand your children to the local council rather than family, irrespective of how far they are away
Or put it another way - would you carry a highly contagious potentially lethal virus to somewhere where the contagion rate was very low in preference to temporarily handing your children to the care of the local council until you recover?
A lot of people would probably do anything to avoid sending their children to the local council.
I'm still trying to piece together the case for the defence from the various bits of information flying around the media.
Is this more or less it?
Cummings's wife already had symptoms. Cummings assumed he had also been infected, though he wasn't symptomatic yet. To save his child from harm in case both of them became incapacitated and it was impossible to arrange for it to be cared for in London, all three of them (including the already symptomatic Mrs Cummings) travelled with the child to county Durham, where they had the offer of childcare from family members. After Cummings developed symptoms, all three of them self-isolated in county Durham. Later, they realised that if people learned what had happened they might not agree that the journey to county Durham was justified, and decided to give people the impression that they had all self-isolated in London.
Is that right?
Useful and (I think) pretty much nails it.
Thus -
(i) In a sub-optimal situation he chose the course of action most desirable for him and his family, in the process disregarding the instructions that he and his boss had ordered the public to abide by.
or
(ii) Faced with an absolutely appalling and dreadful dilemma - with the life of his small child at stake - he did what any husband and father worth his salt would do, even though it was against the (non legally binding) rules.
You decide.
Even if people are going to argue that the child was in such imminent danger of harm as to justify Cummings himself setting aside the guidance about self-isolation and travelling from London to county Durham, I haven't seen any justification for the symptomatic Mrs Cummings accompanying him.
Isn't it obvious that these people just decided the rules didn't apply to them?
The verdict is in on the rank hypocrisy charge and it is unanimous. Guilty. The usual sentence for this in politics is loss of job. So the question then is - are there mitigating circumstances which justify a lesser sentence? Answer surely is "yes" if his actions probably saved the life of any tiny defenceless toddler let alone his own.
But did they? - I'm skeptical but people must make up their own minds.
Yes, but the point I was making was that even if people accept the argument that the child was in danger of harm, there was no justification for Mrs Cummings making the trip to Durham too, particularly as she was apparently already ill with COVID-19.
Point is a good one. But it will only be needed by the prosecution if he somehow convinces the court (of public opinion) that breaking lockdown rules was the only practical way to save his child from great danger. And I doubt he can do that.
If they were going to defend Cummings, why go for the horrifically unattractive "Classic Dom... Super Dad" line? Why not just say, "he made a serious mistake but was trying to do what he saw as the best for his family... Boris was very angry but has decided to forgive him as we all make mistakes"?
The only reason I can think of is that Johnson was well aware of where Cummings was, and approved it. That's a dangerous position and means the story has legs.
Of course, there were rumours that Johnson had paid a family visit the previous weekend. If there were any truth in that ....
I understand why he may have done this but the riight thing to do is resign
Big G, we all understand why he did it. He did it because he didn’t want to be ill and in quarantine in a cramped townhouse in London. He wanted somewhere with a garden for the little one to play in, a view and the chance to get out a bit.
And I do understand that. How often have I come on here counting my blessings that I have a lovely big house, with a garden, and a cycle trail to Cannock Chase less than 200 yards away? When I see people on the Chase, we actually comment on how lucky we are and reflect on those poor sods stuck in little flats in Walsall, whom we can actually see, but who until a few days ago couldn’t join us.
The problem is that (a) flatly contradicts everything the government is doing and (b) he’s come up with just about the stupidest and most implausible set of lies imaginable to excuse it.
But as it is Cummings and that is what he has always done, I agree there is a high chance he survives.
Whether Cummings stays or goes the political damage has been done. Resignation is the least of it, it’s the hypocrisy that does the harm.
The hypocrisy will undermine this government. This will define it, that in a crisis , it did not follow it's own instructions.
The biggest problem, and the reason I personally would have fired Cummings yesterday, is that it's entirely possible we will need another lockdown. How the hell can the government expect the public to abide such a thing if the government itself will not follow the rules? Every further minute where the government defends Cummings is making it increasingly unlikely that a second lockdown will be effective, government authority on this issue is draining away.
Nonsense. The Attorney General agreeing with the Police that there's no case to answer here which is why the Police haven't acted.
If someone calls in something and the Police attends that means no more or less than they were responding to a phone call. If the Police had taken it further then that would be a disagreement.
So to be clear, if you have symptoms, you're allowed to be a super-spreader and travel nearly the length a of the country in a virus filled box to infect your parents and their community because it's better than sending your kids to one of their uncles, your friends, the local authority, or waiting to see what the severity of your own symptoms will be?
There's a lot riding on that word "access". Did he have "access" to family. If the nearest family was that far away I would argue "no" and he should have, as the next resort, to the local authority.
the nearest family are in London
And he is a key worker so would have access to local council childcare.
Please answer this
Would you hand your children to the local council rather than family, irrespective of how far they are away
There's this old thing, called honour. It used to be highly thought of.
If we give Cummings the benefit and he genuinely did this for his child's sake, he should do the honourable thing and resign, as he has clearly extremely seriously undermined the national effort and his entire government's virus strategy.
Yep Agree with that.
Is it still the case that the last Government Minister to resign as a matter of honour (and I know Cummings isn't a minister) was Carrington over the Falklands War? Has anyone else from either party acted in that way since? It would be rather nice to see a return to Ministerial responsibility.
The lockdown is turning into the horror show I always feared it would be. It would have been far better to make the whole thing voluntary, and to trust in the common sense of ordinary people.
There's a lot riding on that word "access". Did he have "access" to family. If the nearest family was that far away I would argue "no" and he should have, as the next resort, to the local authority.
the nearest family are in London
And he is a key worker so would have access to local council childcare.
Please answer this
Would you hand your children to the local council rather than family, irrespective of how far they are away
There's this old thing, called honour. It used to be highly thought of.
If we give Cummings the benefit and he genuinely did this for his child's sake, he should do the honourable thing and resign, as he has clearly extremely seriously undermined the national effort and his entire government's virus strategy.
Do you really think this government cares about the virus?
There's a lot riding on that word "access". Did he have "access" to family. If the nearest family was that far away I would argue "no" and he should have, as the next resort, to the local authority.
the nearest family are in London
And he is a key worker so would have access to local council childcare.
Please answer this
Would you hand your children to the local council rather than family, irrespective of how far they are away
While it is perfectly possible that Mrs Cummings is intractably estranged from her two brothers in London, do you really think that both of them are so loathed that neither has a single friend capable of looking after the child for a few days, located somewhere in the vast metropolis?
Come on BG, you can usually defend the indefensible better than this!
It's a hoot...Cummings is exploiting his child to get himself out of the shit....
And how much character anyway has someone got who places his own elderly parents at risk in this way? ....
Whichever way you look at it...there are no excuses...
This is such a story...I love it....
If Boris cannot sack Cummings...then...what? Seriously....
And if Cummings doesn't walk away...it just shows that he is someone of such dubious moral credentials.....but I think we knew that already
There's a lot riding on that word "access". Did he have "access" to family. If the nearest family was that far away I would argue "no" and he should have, as the next resort, to the local authority.
the nearest family are in London
And he is a key worker so would have access to local council childcare.
Please answer this
Would you hand your children to the local council rather than family, irrespective of how far they are away
There's this old thing, called honour. It used to be highly thought of.
If we give Cummings the benefit and he genuinely did this for his child's sake, he should do the honourable thing and resign, as he has clearly extremely seriously undermined the national effort and his entire government's virus strategy.
Yep Agree with that.
Is it still the case that the last Government Minister to resign as a matter of honour (and I know Cummings isn't a minister) was Carrington over the Falklands War? Has anyone else from either party acted in that way since? It would be rather nice to see a return to Ministerial responsibility.
Estelle Morris, perhaps? Although I don’t think she particularly wanted Cabinet rank anyway.
There's a lot riding on that word "access". Did he have "access" to family. If the nearest family was that far away I would argue "no" and he should have, as the next resort, to the local authority.
the nearest family are in London
And he is a key worker so would have access to local council childcare.
Please answer this
Would you hand your children to the local council rather than family, irrespective of how far they are away
There's this old thing, called honour. It used to be highly thought of.
If we give Cummings the benefit and he genuinely did this for his child's sake, he should do the honourable thing and resign, as he has clearly extremely seriously undermined the national effort and his entire government's virus strategy.
Yep Agree with that.
Is it still the case that the last Government Minister to resign as a matter of honour (and I know Cummings isn't a minister) was Carrington over the Falklands War? Has anyone else from either party acted in that way since? It would be rather nice to see a return to Ministerial responsibility.
I understand why he may have done this but the riight thing to do is resign
Big G, we all understand why he did it. He did it because he didn’t want to be ill and in quarantine in a cramped townhouse in London. He wanted somewhere with a garden for the little one to play in, a view and the chance to get out a bit.
And I do understand that. How often have I come on here counting my blessings that I have a lovely big house, with a garden, and a cycle trail to Cannock Chase less than 200 yards away? When I see people on the Chase, we actually comment on how lucky we are and reflect on those poor sods stuck in little flats in Walsall, whom we can actually see, but who until a few days ago couldn’t join us.
The problem is that (a) flatly contradicts everything the government is doing and (b) he’s come up with just about the stupidest and most implausible set of lies imaginable to excuse it.
But as it is Cummings and that is what he has always done, I agree there is a high chance he survives.
You're a good person, you have my respect and thanks for your understanding of people with less than yourself. 10/10 post.
The lockdown is turning into the horror show I always feared it would be. It would have been far better to make the whole thing voluntary, and to trust in the common sense of ordinary people.
I am sad to say that I think Cummings will have to go.
Not sad for the man. He was a fool to break the rules in the way he did and think he was above reprimand for it. It was an arrogance that has always typified him from what I have seen.
But I am sad for two specific reasons.
One because it gives a win to the scum who have always hated him simply because he was effective and on the opposite side from them in arguments- and I include a fair few on here in that description.
And two because he was undoubtedly right in the vast majority of things he did. He was a huge asset to both the Governance of this country and the Leave campaign.
But it appears that success then breeds, or rather reinforces, that arrogance.
No one should be above the law when people's lives are at stake, no one should get away with the crass hypocrisy he has displayed and no one should take the public for fools when trying to protect ones own career. He has done all these things and so should not survive.
Whether he will or not is something I am incapable of predicting.
He took on education with the brief to decentralise it.
He ended with a vastly more centralised education system.
He was completely wrong.
Cummings and his cabal of nutjobs and weirdos are pretty much wrong on everything. The British public will get to know this fairly quickly hence why I hope he stays on.
And yet they won Time and time again. That must really hurt.
There's a lot riding on that word "access". Did he have "access" to family. If the nearest family was that far away I would argue "no" and he should have, as the next resort, to the local authority.
the nearest family are in London
And he is a key worker so would have access to local council childcare.
Please answer this
Would you hand your children to the local council rather than family, irrespective of how far they are away
While it is perfectly possible that Mrs Cummings is intractably estranged from her two brothers in London, do you really think that both of them are so loathed that neither has a single friend capable of looking after the child for a few days, located somewhere in the vast metropolis?
Come on BG, you can usually defend the indefensible better than this!
Not having friends in London is probably a more widespread phenomenon than one might believe.
I am sad to say that I think Cummings will have to go.
Not sad for the man. He was a fool to break the rules in the way he did and think he was above reprimand for it. It was an arrogance that has always typified him from what I have seen.
But I am sad for two specific reasons.
One because it gives a win to the scum who have always hated him simply because he was effective and on the opposite side from them in arguments- and I include a fair few on here in that description.
And two because he was undoubtedly right in the vast majority of things he did. He was a huge asset to both the Governance of this country and the Leave campaign.
But it appears that success then breeds, or rather reinforces, that arrogance.
No one should be above the law when people's lives are at stake, no one should get away with the crass hypocrisy he has displayed and no one should take the public for fools when trying to protect ones own career. He has done all these things and so should not survive.
Whether he will or not is something I am incapable of predicting.
He took on education with the brief to decentralise it.
He ended with a vastly more centralised education system.
He was completely wrong.
Nope he was completely right. Just he was not allowed to finish the job. Vested interests saw to that. The need for massive radical reform of the management of the public sector including - or rather primarily - the Civil Service is long overdue. My only hope is that when Cummings goes , which he really should, Boris replaces him with someone even more radical who continues his work.
So he's right he just couldn't execute because he and Gove were easily fooled and foiled by stupid and incompetent civil servants?
I understand why he may have done this but the riight thing to do is resign
Big G, we all understand why he did it. He did it because he didn’t want to be ill and in quarantine in a cramped townhouse in London. He wanted somewhere with a garden for the little one to play in, a view and the chance to get out a bit.
And I do understand that. How often have I come on here counting my blessings that I have a lovely big house, with a garden, and a cycle trail to Cannock Chase less than 200 yards away? When I see people on the Chase, we actually comment on how lucky we are and reflect on those poor sods stuck in little flats in Walsall, whom we can actually see, but who until a few days ago couldn’t join us.
The problem is that (a) flatly contradicts everything the government is doing and (b) he’s come up with just about the stupidest and most implausible set of lies imaginable to excuse it.
But as it is Cummings and that is what he has always done, I agree there is a high chance he survives.
You're a good person, you have my respect and thanks for your understanding of people with less than yourself. 10/10 post.
Shame on Big G for supporting him, I expected better from him given his previous posting.
There's a lot riding on that word "access". Did he have "access" to family. If the nearest family was that far away I would argue "no" and he should have, as the next resort, to the local authority.
the nearest family are in London
And he is a key worker so would have access to local council childcare.
Please answer this
Would you hand your children to the local council rather than family, irrespective of how far they are away
There's this old thing, called honour. It used to be highly thought of.
If we give Cummings the benefit and he genuinely did this for his child's sake, he should do the honourable thing and resign, as he has clearly extremely seriously undermined the national effort and his entire government's virus strategy.
Yep Agree with that.
Is it still the case that the last Government Minister to resign as a matter of honour (and I know Cummings isn't a minister) was Carrington over the Falklands War? Has anyone else from either party acted in that way since? It would be rather nice to see a return to Ministerial responsibility.
Robin Cook?
Surely that was over a matter of policy rather than because he felt he had done something wrong and failed in his job? Not quite was I was talking about.
I understand why he may have done this but the riight thing to do is resign
Big G, we all understand why he did it. He did it because he didn’t want to be ill and in quarantine in a cramped townhouse in London. He wanted somewhere with a garden for the little one to play in, a view and the chance to get out a bit.
And I do understand that. How often have I come on here counting my blessings that I have a lovely big house, with a garden, and a cycle trail to Cannock Chase less than 200 yards away? When I see people on the Chase, we actually comment on how lucky we are and reflect on those poor sods stuck in little flats in Walsall, whom we can actually see, but who until a few days ago couldn’t join us.
The problem is that (a) flatly contradicts everything the government is doing and (b) he’s come up with just about the stupidest and most implausible set of lies imaginable to excuse it.
But as it is Cummings and that is what he has always done, I agree there is a high chance he survives.
You're a good person, you have my respect and thanks for your understanding of people with less than yourself. 10/10 post.
Shame on Big G for supporting him, I expected better from him given his previous posting.
"If the individuals do not have access to care support, formal care support or to family, they will be able to work through their local authority hubs."
There's a lot riding on that word "access". Did he have "access" to family. If the nearest family was that far away I would argue "no" and he should have, as the next resort, to the local authority.
I am not defending him but if anyone thinks any parent would hand their child to the local authority when family were available, no matter the distance, please declare so
"If the individuals do not have access to care support, formal care support or to family, they will be able to work through their local authority hubs."
There's a lot riding on that word "access". Did he have "access" to family. If the nearest family was that far away I would argue "no" and he should have, as the next resort, to the local authority.
I am not defending him but if anyone thinks any parent would hand their child to the local authority when family were available, no matter the distance, please declare so
All those promoting the child saving bit are obviously doing it on instructions from CCHQ or are on the payroll or both.
The lockdown is turning into the horror show I always feared it would be. It would have been far better to make the whole thing voluntary, and to trust in the common sense of ordinary people.
Trouble is that from what we have seen a significant proportion of the population think 'common sense' is being allowed to carry on as normal and fuck the elderly and vulnerable. After all they are old and will die soon anyway. A refrain we have seen far too often on PB in the past.
There's a lot riding on that word "access". Did he have "access" to family. If the nearest family was that far away I would argue "no" and he should have, as the next resort, to the local authority.
the nearest family are in London
And he is a key worker so would have access to local council childcare.
Please answer this
Would you hand your children to the local council rather than family, irrespective of how far they are away
Or put it another way - would you carry a highly contagious potentially lethal virus to somewhere where the contagion rate was very low in preference to temporarily handing your children to the care of the local council until you recover?
A lot of people would probably do anything to avoid sending their children to the local council.
The ruling class send their kids off to live with complete strangers for months at a time.
The drone like uniformity of Cabinet minister on Twitter is not a good sign for the dynamism of UK politics, which is ironic given Cummings's stated positions on groupthink and diversity of opinions.
Shapps tying himself in knots with lying about how Cummings was right and guidance covers him, the medical woman stuttering through it as well.
It's become a comedy show when it shouldn't. This Government's handling of the pandemic has been nothing short of a shambles. And that is before the sh*t hits the fan economically. Within a short period of time, this Government and this PM will be the most unpopular in recorded history. If was never going to be an easy gig but how they are f*cking it up.
There's a lot riding on that word "access". Did he have "access" to family. If the nearest family was that far away I would argue "no" and he should have, as the next resort, to the local authority.
the nearest family are in London
And he is a key worker so would have access to local council childcare.
Please answer this
Would you hand your children to the local council rather than family, irrespective of how far they are away
There's this old thing, called honour. It used to be highly thought of.
If we give Cummings the benefit and he genuinely did this for his child's sake, he should do the honourable thing and resign, as he has clearly extremely seriously undermined the national effort and his entire government's virus strategy.
Yep Agree with that.
Is it still the case that the last Government Minister to resign as a matter of honour (and I know Cummings isn't a minister) was Carrington over the Falklands War? Has anyone else from either party acted in that way since? It would be rather nice to see a return to Ministerial responsibility.
Estelle Morris, perhaps? Although I don’t think she particularly wanted Cabinet rank anyway.
Possibly. But again I am not sure she actually did anything wrong. I am looking for a modern (post Thatcher) example of a minister who failed in their office and resigned as a matter of principle rather than being sacked.
Nonsense. The Attorney General agreeing with the Police that there's no case to answer here which is why the Police haven't acted.
If someone calls in something and the Police attends that means no more or less than they were responding to a phone call. If the Police had taken it further then that would be a disagreement.
So to be clear, if you have symptoms, you're allowed to be a super-spreader and travel nearly the length a of the country in a virus filled box to infect your parents and their community because it's better than sending your kids to one of their uncles, your friends, the local authority, or waiting to see what the severity of your own symptoms will be?
That seems to be the approved government line.
Time to book that Red Funnel to the Isle of Wight with a clear conscience.
I am in the unusual position of being able to forgive both. Ferguson should have profusely apologized, he didn’t need to go. Ditto Cummings.
The scotch lady was different because she was actually on the telly giving orders to the Jocks to stay in their smelly little crofts with their neep-tatties
You forgot the haggis lockdown breaker. Cummings and you are cheeks of the same arse, you fled long before him though, at least his wife was ill.
There's a lot riding on that word "access". Did he have "access" to family. If the nearest family was that far away I would argue "no" and he should have, as the next resort, to the local authority.
the nearest family are in London
And he is a key worker so would have access to local council childcare.
Please answer this
Would you hand your children to the local council rather than family, irrespective of how far they are away
There's this old thing, called honour. It used to be highly thought of.
If we give Cummings the benefit and he genuinely did this for his child's sake, he should do the honourable thing and resign, as he has clearly extremely seriously undermined the national effort and his entire government's virus strategy.
Yep Agree with that.
Is it still the case that the last Government Minister to resign as a matter of honour (and I know Cummings isn't a minister) was Carrington over the Falklands War? Has anyone else from either party acted in that way since? It would be rather nice to see a return to Ministerial responsibility.
Estelle Morris, perhaps? Although I don’t think she particularly wanted Cabinet rank anyway.
Possibly. But again I am not sure she actually did anything wrong. I am looking for a modern (post Thatcher) example of a minister who failed in their office and resigned as a matter of principle rather than being sacked.
There's a lot riding on that word "access". Did he have "access" to family. If the nearest family was that far away I would argue "no" and he should have, as the next resort, to the local authority.
the nearest family are in London
And he is a key worker so would have access to local council childcare.
Please answer this
Would you hand your children to the local council rather than family, irrespective of how far they are away
While it is perfectly possible that Mrs Cummings is intractably estranged from her two brothers in London, do you really think that both of them are so loathed that neither has a single friend capable of looking after the child for a few days, located somewhere in the vast metropolis?
Come on BG, you can usually defend the indefensible better than this!
Not having friends in London is probably a more widespread phenomenon than one might believe.
Not a single one? No one who Cummings Jr playdates with? Despite both parents residing in a swish part of the City for a decade?
There's a lot riding on that word "access". Did he have "access" to family. If the nearest family was that far away I would argue "no" and he should have, as the next resort, to the local authority.
the nearest family are in London
And he is a key worker so would have access to local council childcare.
Please answer this
Would you hand your children to the local council rather than family, irrespective of how far they are away
While it is perfectly possible that Mrs Cummings is intractably estranged from her two brothers in London, do you really think that both of them are so loathed that neither has a single friend capable of looking after the child for a few days, located somewhere in the vast metropolis?
Come on BG, you can usually defend the indefensible better than this!
Not having friends in London is probably a more widespread phenomenon than one might believe.
Shapps tying himself in knots with lying about how Cummings was right and guidance covers him, the medical woman stuttering through it as well.
It's become a comedy show when it shouldn't. This Government's handling of the pandemic has been nothing short of a shambles. And that is before the sh*t hits the fan economically. Within a short period of time, this Government and this PM will be the most unpopular in recorded history. If was never going to be an easy gig but how they are f*cking it up.
Wait to January next year when they see the real consequences of leaving without a deal.
I am sad to say that I think Cummings will have to go.
Not sad for the man. He was a fool to break the rules in the way he did and think he was above reprimand for it. It was an arrogance that has always typified him from what I have seen.
But I am sad for two specific reasons.
One because it gives a win to the scum who have always hated him simply because he was effective and on the opposite side from them in arguments- and I include a fair few on here in that description.
And two because he was undoubtedly right in the vast majority of things he did. He was a huge asset to both the Governance of this country and the Leave campaign.
But it appears that success then breeds, or rather reinforces, that arrogance.
No one should be above the law when people's lives are at stake, no one should get away with the crass hypocrisy he has displayed and no one should take the public for fools when trying to protect ones own career. He has done all these things and so should not survive.
Whether he will or not is something I am incapable of predicting.
He took on education with the brief to decentralise it.
He ended with a vastly more centralised education system.
He was completely wrong.
Nope he was completely right. Just he was not allowed to finish the job. Vested interests saw to that. The need for massive radical reform of the management of the public sector including - or rather primarily - the Civil Service is long overdue. My only hope is that when Cummings goes , which he really should, Boris replaces him with someone even more radical who continues his work.
So he's right he just couldn't execute because he and Gove were easily fooled and foiled by stupid and incompetent civil servants?
This hardly sounds like a ringing endorsement.
Nope just a fact of life. And one reason why it needs someone even more brutal than Cummings in there to get it done.
"If the individuals do not have access to care support, formal care support or to family, they will be able to work through their local authority hubs."
There's a lot riding on that word "access". Did he have "access" to family. If the nearest family was that far away I would argue "no" and he should have, as the next resort, to the local authority.
I am not defending him but if anyone thinks any parent would hand their child to the local authority when family were available, no matter the distance, please declare so
"If the individuals do not have access to care support, formal care support or to family, they will be able to work through their local authority hubs."
There's a lot riding on that word "access". Did he have "access" to family. If the nearest family was that far away I would argue "no" and he should have, as the next resort, to the local authority.
I am not defending him but if anyone thinks any parent would hand their child to the local authority when family were available, no matter the distance, please declare so
All those promoting the child saving bit are obviously doing it on instructions from CCHQ or are on the payroll or both.
Or are decent humans who have a child.
Any decent human whose child was not at all ill, and they were not ill and had relatives nearby would not have endangered lots of other people's children by driving 250 miles to their holiday home. If you cannot grasp that your mind is warped
Nonsense. The Attorney General agreeing with the Police that there's no case to answer here which is why the Police haven't acted.
If someone calls in something and the Police attends that means no more or less than they were responding to a phone call. If the Police had taken it further then that would be a disagreement.
So to be clear, if you have symptoms, you're allowed to be a super-spreader and travel nearly the length a of the country in a virus filled box to infect your parents and their community because it's better than sending your kids to one of their uncles, your friends, the local authority, or waiting to see what the severity of your own symptoms will be?
That seems to be the approved government line.
Time to book that Red Funnel to the Isle of Wight with a clear conscience.
Wasn't Cummings supposed to walk after the GE for health reasons?
I knew that was all bullshit...someone like Cummings doesn't walk. He won't walk now.
Nonsense. The Attorney General agreeing with the Police that there's no case to answer here which is why the Police haven't acted.
If someone calls in something and the Police attends that means no more or less than they were responding to a phone call. If the Police had taken it further then that would be a disagreement.
So to be clear, if you have symptoms, you're allowed to be a super-spreader and travel nearly the length a of the country in a virus filled box to infect your parents and their community because it's better than sending your kids to one of their uncles, your friends, the local authority, or waiting to see what the severity of your own symptoms will be?
That seems to be the approved government line.
Time to book that Red Funnel to the Isle of Wight with a clear conscience.
Based on this rubbish you can do exactly what you want , just have a family member with an imaginary illness and you can shoot off any time.
"If the individuals do not have access to care support, formal care support or to family, they will be able to work through their local authority hubs."
There's a lot riding on that word "access". Did he have "access" to family. If the nearest family was that far away I would argue "no" and he should have, as the next resort, to the local authority.
I am not defending him but if anyone thinks any parent would hand their child to the local authority when family were available, no matter the distance, please declare so
"If the individuals do not have access to care support, formal care support or to family, they will be able to work through their local authority hubs."
There's a lot riding on that word "access". Did he have "access" to family. If the nearest family was that far away I would argue "no" and he should have, as the next resort, to the local authority.
I am not defending him but if anyone thinks any parent would hand their child to the local authority when family were available, no matter the distance, please declare so
All those promoting the child saving bit are obviously doing it on instructions from CCHQ or are on the payroll or both.
Or are decent humans who have a child.
Any decent human whose child was not at all ill, and they were not ill and had relatives nearby would not have endangered lots of other people's children by driving 250 miles to their holiday home. If you cannot grasp that your mind is warped
Is there really any point? The other day he tried to make out EU FOM was racist to defend his ridiculous position. He's gone way off the deep end.
Comments
Perhaps people will now believe me.
Come on BG, you can usually defend the indefensible better than this!
If someone calls in something and the Police attends that means no more or less than they were responding to a phone call. If the Police had taken it further then that would be a disagreement.
This will define it, that in a crisis , it did not follow it's own instructions.
Notwithstanding, I do believe he should resign
That's not what journalists were saying two month's ago!
And I do understand that. How often have I come on here counting my blessings that I have a lovely big house, with a garden, and a cycle trail to Cannock Chase less than 200 yards away? When I see people on the Chase, we actually comment on how lucky we are and reflect on those poor sods stuck in little flats in Walsall, whom we can actually see, but who until a few days ago couldn’t join us.
The problem is that (a) flatly contradicts everything the government is doing and (b) he’s come up with just about the stupidest and most implausible set of lies imaginable to excuse it.
But as it is Cummings and that is what he has always done, I agree there is a high chance he survives.
He seems to drive twitter and the media-pack unhinged.
'Look, the important thing is..'
Is it still the case that the last Government Minister to resign as a matter of honour (and I know Cummings isn't a minister) was Carrington over the Falklands War? Has anyone else from either party acted in that way since? It would be rather nice to see a return to Ministerial responsibility.
https://twitter.com/hector_drummond/status/1264205850832494593?s=21
And how much character anyway has someone got who places his own elderly parents at risk in this way? ....
Whichever way you look at it...there are no excuses...
This is such a story...I love it....
If Boris cannot sack Cummings...then...what? Seriously....
And if Cummings doesn't walk away...it just shows that he is someone of such dubious moral credentials.....but I think we knew that already
Tell him we miss him.
This hardly sounds like a ringing endorsement.
If he was ill, why was he doing that? So did he lie about being ill?
He has mitigating circumstances but he should resign
Time to book that Red Funnel to the Isle of Wight with a clear conscience.
(Edit - ah, missed the "failed in office" thing).
What a bleak existence they must lead.
I knew that was all bullshit...someone like Cummings doesn't walk. He won't walk now.