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  • tysontyson Posts: 6,114

    tyson said:

    Sometimes you look at some people, scratch your head and think what the fuck is wrong with them?
    We are on the same page on this one Tyson.

    Ashamed of her and anyone in my party who tries to defend her
    We've got some notrights in the Labour Party that make your toes curl...Richard Burgon et al.......and I could name some of my local comrades.....

    You kind of think do we exist on the same planet?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/15/keir-starmer-needs-win-scotland-not-pmqs-have-chance-election/

    The threat to Starmer’s – and to any successor’s – dreams of office comes from failing to win back Scotland. So long as Scots insist on returning regiments of nationalist MPs to Westminster, Starmer will be forced at the next election to explain whether he will contemplate coming to some sort of post-election arrangement whereby the SNP agree to maintain a minority Labour government in office. It’s not a question on which he can prevaricate: everyone watching the TV news will know that a simple yes or no answer is within his grasp. If the answer is no, how will he form a government? If it’s yes, what will he give the SNP in return?

    A Sindy referendum after 5 years.Nobody thinks they can be denied another try forever, and not that many people really care. Evem quite a few Tories fancy getting rid of the anti-Tory Scots. It's not as though many people expect them to win, with oil a busted flush.
    The Nats will lose again. Heart of stone etc.
    But since you lot have the heart of a chicken, you'll put every obstacle possible in the way of a referendum you think you'll win. Odd.
    You're like the IRA. You only need to be lucky once, unionists need to be lucky every time.

    (Though Remainers in Parliament tried to disprove that maxim)
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    This week we have seen the EU and ECJ take on Germany's consitutional court, serve UK notice re freedom of movement, threaten the UK over a bi lateral deal with France, and now seeking to stop the agreement reached with Baltic Countries to act in their own bubble allowing movement to each other

    And on top of that show no awareness of the car crash that is a no deal

    How can anyone defend this institution

    Covid has thrown all it's structures into disarray

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,460
    edited May 2020
    TOPPING said:

    BT emailed me to announce live coverage of all this weekends Bundesliga games

    It will be interesting to see how surreal it is and also if fans congregate around the grounds despite appeals not to

    And live football of sorts back on tv

    I assume leagues across Europe will be watching with great interest, not the football but the reactions and consequences

    Watching the human cock fighting last weekend, sport with no crowd is just weird.
    You don't strike me as a UFC aficionado.

    No pun intended.
    You wont catch me staying in a travel lodge or a motel6 (if you are from the US), but am actually really into watching these tattooed trailer park trash knocking seven bells out of one another.

    In all seriousness, MMA is now high technically and skilled pursuit, while being a lot more exciting than average boxing match.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    TOPPING said:

    Much of Essex is absolutely lovely.

    Epping Forest
    Dedham Vale
    The Naze Coast

    It’s only ignoramuses like @TheScreamingEagles who think otherwise

    Its like France, beautiful country shame its full of French people (i am joking).
    I am glad you owned up to a rather crude and offensive joke. It's not that beautiful.
    As I said, have you been to, say, Dunmow, Hatfield Heath, etc.

    You wouldn't think you were in Essex. Though it is quite flat.
    I was talking about France. :lol: And of course, joking.

    I have only ever been through Essex. I am sure parts of it are delightful.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    Much of Essex is absolutely lovely.

    Epping Forest
    Dedham Vale
    The Naze Coast

    It’s only ignoramuses like @TheScreamingEagles who think otherwise

    Its like France, beautiful country shame its full of French people (i am joking).
    I am glad you owned up to a rather crude and offensive joke. It's not that beautiful.
    You are either a complete crank or you have barely visited France.

    Actually, don’t bother responding. I already know which it is!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,965
    Just checked with Wor Lass, and no, I'm not allowed a lockdown sex buddy.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    TOPPING said:

    Much of Essex is absolutely lovely.

    Epping Forest
    Dedham Vale
    The Naze Coast

    It’s only ignoramuses like @TheScreamingEagles who think otherwise

    The area around Bishop's Stortford is fantastic.
    Bishop's Stortford is in Hertfordshire, of course - though if you go back far enough I believe that we used to be part of the Kingdom of Essex. As was the City of London.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    TGOHF666 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/15/keir-starmer-needs-win-scotland-not-pmqs-have-chance-election/

    The threat to Starmer’s – and to any successor’s – dreams of office comes from failing to win back Scotland. So long as Scots insist on returning regiments of nationalist MPs to Westminster, Starmer will be forced at the next election to explain whether he will contemplate coming to some sort of post-election arrangement whereby the SNP agree to maintain a minority Labour government in office. It’s not a question on which he can prevaricate: everyone watching the TV news will know that a simple yes or no answer is within his grasp. If the answer is no, how will he form a government? If it’s yes, what will he give the SNP in return?

    If Labour reaches 40% in GB polls, there is a good prospect of polling 30% in Scotland - at which point many SNP seats would become vulnerable. Were Starmer to develop serious momentum and become seen as a likely PM in 2024, I expect there will be a significant impact in Scotland.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231

    Much of Essex is absolutely lovely.

    Epping Forest
    Dedham Vale
    The Naze Coast

    It’s only ignoramuses like @TheScreamingEagles who think otherwise

    Its like France, beautiful country shame its full of French people (i am joking).
    I am glad you owned up to a rather crude and offensive joke. It's not that beautiful.
    You are either a complete crank or you have barely visited France.

    Actually, don’t bother responding. I already know which it is!
    I lived in Nice for three months.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,114

    Just checked with Wor Lass, and no, I'm not allowed a lockdown sex buddy.

    What about a cuddle buddy instead?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    tyson said:

    tyson said:

    Sometimes you look at some people, scratch your head and think what the fuck is wrong with them?
    We are on the same page on this one Tyson.

    Ashamed of her and anyone in my party who tries to defend her
    We've got some notrights in the Labour Party that make your toes curl...Richard Burgon et al.......and I could name some of my local comrades.....

    You kind of think do we exist on the same planet?
    We do but then there are unacceptable politicians on both the far right and far left

    And we have covid
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,965

    Much of Essex is absolutely lovely.

    Epping Forest
    Dedham Vale
    The Naze Coast

    It’s only ignoramuses like @TheScreamingEagles who think otherwise

    More like the Nazi Coast, all those Kippers.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,965

    Much of Essex is absolutely lovely.

    Epping Forest
    Dedham Vale
    The Naze Coast

    It’s only ignoramuses like @TheScreamingEagles who think otherwise

    Its like France, beautiful country shame its full of French people (i am joking).
    I've seen three episodes of TOWIE, you can understand my wariness about Essex, about 30 years ago I spent a lovely weekend in Southend, I still have a momento.
    You should try stronger antibiotics.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    This week we have seen the EU and ECJ take on Germany's consitutional court, serve UK notice re freedom of movement, threaten the UK over a bi lateral deal with France, and now seeking to stop the agreement reached with Baltic Countries to act in their own bubble allowing movement to each other

    And on top of that show no awareness of the car crash that is a no deal

    How can anyone defend this institution

    Covid has thrown all it's structures into disarray

    It's become a culture wars/identity thing.

    There are too many people in this country for whom the EU can either do no wrong or do no right.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    edited May 2020

    TOPPING said:

    Much of Essex is absolutely lovely.

    Epping Forest
    Dedham Vale
    The Naze Coast

    It’s only ignoramuses like @TheScreamingEagles who think otherwise

    The area around Bishop's Stortford is fantastic.
    Bishop's Stortford is in Hertfordshire, of course - though if you go back far enough I believe that we used to be part of the Kingdom of Essex. As was the City of London.
    Interesting point. Many of the villages around there are in Herts but have Essex postcodes. Go figure.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    justin124 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/15/keir-starmer-needs-win-scotland-not-pmqs-have-chance-election/

    The threat to Starmer’s – and to any successor’s – dreams of office comes from failing to win back Scotland. So long as Scots insist on returning regiments of nationalist MPs to Westminster, Starmer will be forced at the next election to explain whether he will contemplate coming to some sort of post-election arrangement whereby the SNP agree to maintain a minority Labour government in office. It’s not a question on which he can prevaricate: everyone watching the TV news will know that a simple yes or no answer is within his grasp. If the answer is no, how will he form a government? If it’s yes, what will he give the SNP in return?

    If Labour reaches 40% in GB polls, there is a good prospect of polling 30% in Scotland - at which point many SNP seats would become vulnerable. Were Starmer to develop serious momentum and become seen as a likely PM in 2024, I expect there will be a significant impact in Scotland.
    Er naw.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753

    TOPPING said:

    BT emailed me to announce live coverage of all this weekends Bundesliga games

    It will be interesting to see how surreal it is and also if fans congregate around the grounds despite appeals not to

    And live football of sorts back on tv

    I assume leagues across Europe will be watching with great interest, not the football but the reactions and consequences

    Watching the human cock fighting last weekend, sport with no crowd is just weird.
    You don't strike me as a UFC aficionado.

    No pun intended.
    You wont catch me staying in a travel lodge or a motel6 (if you are from the US), but am actually really into watching these tattooed trailer park trash knocking seven bells out of one another.

    In all seriousness, MMA is now high technically and skilled pursuit, while being a lot more exciting than average boxing match.
    Not quite. I don't mind MMA but it's pretty agricultural. Never was a BJJ fan, that said.

    This, meanwhile, is pure art.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQYeSXpC244
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    tyson said:

    Just checked with Wor Lass, and no, I'm not allowed a lockdown sex buddy.

    What about a cuddle buddy instead?
    Or in my case my dear wife as we celebrate our 56 years together tomorrow
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Much of Essex is absolutely lovely.

    Epping Forest
    Dedham Vale
    The Naze Coast

    It’s only ignoramuses like @TheScreamingEagles who think otherwise

    The area around Bishop's Stortford is fantastic.
    Bishop's Stortford is in Hertfordshire, of course - though if you go back far enough I believe that we used to be part of the Kingdom of Essex. As was the City of London.
    Interesting point. Many of the villages around there are in Herts but have Essex postcodes. Go figure.
    "Post Counties" haven't been officially in use since 1996.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    TGOHF666 said:

    justin124 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/15/keir-starmer-needs-win-scotland-not-pmqs-have-chance-election/

    The threat to Starmer’s – and to any successor’s – dreams of office comes from failing to win back Scotland. So long as Scots insist on returning regiments of nationalist MPs to Westminster, Starmer will be forced at the next election to explain whether he will contemplate coming to some sort of post-election arrangement whereby the SNP agree to maintain a minority Labour government in office. It’s not a question on which he can prevaricate: everyone watching the TV news will know that a simple yes or no answer is within his grasp. If the answer is no, how will he form a government? If it’s yes, what will he give the SNP in return?

    If Labour reaches 40% in GB polls, there is a good prospect of polling 30% in Scotland - at which point many SNP seats would become vulnerable. Were Starmer to develop serious momentum and become seen as a likely PM in 2024, I expect there will be a significant impact in Scotland.
    Er naw.
    Labour polled over 27% there in 2017 under Corbyn. Starmer should do better.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Pulpstar said:

    Apparently the UK is part funding 24 different vaccine approaches.

    Hopefully it'll mean we're at or near the top of the queue for one of them should one come good.
    Well if the PC police have their way we will be back of the queue...too white, too rich, too male...

    The big thing the government got right , got lucky is already well on the ay to building this vaccine production facility and government pushed the fast forward button on getting it built 2 years early.
    Watch this space
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    justin124 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/15/keir-starmer-needs-win-scotland-not-pmqs-have-chance-election/

    The threat to Starmer’s – and to any successor’s – dreams of office comes from failing to win back Scotland. So long as Scots insist on returning regiments of nationalist MPs to Westminster, Starmer will be forced at the next election to explain whether he will contemplate coming to some sort of post-election arrangement whereby the SNP agree to maintain a minority Labour government in office. It’s not a question on which he can prevaricate: everyone watching the TV news will know that a simple yes or no answer is within his grasp. If the answer is no, how will he form a government? If it’s yes, what will he give the SNP in return?

    If Labour reaches 40% in GB polls, there is a good prospect of polling 30% in Scotland - at which point many SNP seats would become vulnerable. Were Starmer to develop serious momentum and become seen as a likely PM in 2024, I expect there will be a significant impact in Scotland.
    Maybe. OTOH the Sainted Jeremy got to 40% in 2017 and was rewarded with half-a-dozen barely held marginals, all of which he lost again two years down the line.

    Besides, when the SNP went a bit backwards the Tories made more gains than Labour did, so the performance was worse than useless from Labour's POV.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578
    ydoethur said:

    Much of Essex is absolutely lovely.

    Epping Forest
    Dedham Vale
    The Naze Coast

    It’s only ignoramuses like @TheScreamingEagles who think otherwise

    Its like France, beautiful country shame its full of French people (i am joking).
    Essex is full of French people?
    Stanford-LE-Hope :lol:
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    Much of Essex is absolutely lovely.

    Epping Forest
    Dedham Vale
    The Naze Coast

    It’s only ignoramuses like @TheScreamingEagles who think otherwise

    Its like France, beautiful country shame its full of French people (i am joking).
    I am glad you owned up to a rather crude and offensive joke. It's not that beautiful.
    You are either a complete crank or you have barely visited France.

    Actually, don’t bother responding. I already know which it is!
    I lived in Nice for three months.
    I hope you liked the old town - and also took the opportunity to visit the plethora of other gems that contribute to its being the world’s most popular country for visitors.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    OllyT said:

    kinabalu said:

    BoJo was NOT seventeen and a half stone (!) before the virus He's only 5 ft 8 inches tall. If he had weighed that much he would have looked like Mr Creosote.

    Is he spinning yet another self-serving yarn?

    Agreed. No way he/is was that heavy. He’s very portly but that’s absurd.

    Having met Bozza, I’d put him as 5-8 and about 14-7.

    Fat, certainly.

    Creosote, nope.
    I can't see any possible motive for lying about it though.
    Pure anecdata, but more of my friends have been discussing health and exercise recently and I've learned either I'm a rubbish judge of weight (very possible) or it's surprisingly hard to judge weight. The visual difference between modestly overweight and 5 stone heavier isn't that obvious, to me at least.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    TOPPING said:

    Much of Essex is absolutely lovely.

    Epping Forest
    Dedham Vale
    The Naze Coast

    It’s only ignoramuses like @TheScreamingEagles who think otherwise

    The area around Bishop's Stortford is fantastic.
    Bishop's Stortford is in Hertfordshire, of course - though if you go back far enough I believe that we used to be part of the Kingdom of Essex. As was the City of London.
    Really? I though a London was always Mercian not East Anglian ?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    Much of Essex is absolutely lovely.

    Epping Forest
    Dedham Vale
    The Naze Coast

    It’s only ignoramuses like @TheScreamingEagles who think otherwise

    More like the Nazi Coast, all those Kippers.
    A quasi-Godwin from absolutely nowhere
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Much of Essex is absolutely lovely.

    Epping Forest
    Dedham Vale
    The Naze Coast

    It’s only ignoramuses like @TheScreamingEagles who think otherwise

    Its like France, beautiful country shame its full of French people (i am joking).
    I am glad you owned up to a rather crude and offensive joke. It's not that beautiful.
    You are either a complete crank or you have barely visited France.

    Actually, don’t bother responding. I already know which it is!
    I lived in Nice for three months.
    I hope you liked the old town - and also took the opportunity to visit the plethora of other gems that contribute to its being the world’s most popular country for visitors.
    Too much dog shit in Nice.

    Still better than the human shit in Monoco
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Much of Essex is absolutely lovely.

    Epping Forest
    Dedham Vale
    The Naze Coast

    It’s only ignoramuses like @TheScreamingEagles who think otherwise

    The area around Bishop's Stortford is fantastic.
    Bishop's Stortford is in Hertfordshire, of course - though if you go back far enough I believe that we used to be part of the Kingdom of Essex. As was the City of London.
    Interesting point. Many of the villages around there are in Herts but have Essex postcodes. Go figure.
    CM (for Chelmsford) I presume? Postal areas cross county and even national boundaries across most of the map.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    This week we have seen the EU and ECJ take on Germany's consitutional court, serve UK notice re freedom of movement, threaten the UK over a bi lateral deal with France, and now seeking to stop the agreement reached with Baltic Countries to act in their own bubble allowing movement to each other

    And on top of that show no awareness of the car crash that is a no deal

    How can anyone defend this institution

    Covid has thrown all it's structures into disarray

    It's become a culture wars/identity thing.

    There are too many people in this country for whom the EU can either do no wrong or do no right.
    I think there are a fair few who couldn’t give a toss anymore. The covid lockdown is the only game in town nowadays.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    edited May 2020
    OllyT said:

    stodge said:

    Just a word on the recent US State polls.

    In New Jersey, Clinton beat Trump by 14 in 2016 but Biden leads by 23. In Ohio, Trump won by 8 but is now up by only 3.

    In Texas, Trump won by 9 and is now up by 6 while in North Carolina Trump won by four and now leads by three.

    In Florida Trump won by one last time and now trails by six so we can deduce there's a 2.5-3% swing away from Trump out there.

    Better news from California where Trump lost by 30 and is still only 30 behind Biden so he's doing all right.

    Biden must be odds on to win the popular vote. The biased Electoral College is another matter.
    Market certainly agrees, 67% chance Biden wins the vote but just over 40% he's next President. I must admit, a 25% chance of a vote/EC split seems a bit high to me (albeit not massively). I wonder if the prospect of Trump winning the vote too is underrated. Even with the midwest and so on giving a GOP EC advantage there's a fairly small target zone for a split taking place. Remember Clinton won the vote by 2.1% and she was very close in enough swing states to win the EC. 2.5% was probably the limit before she'd have been near certain to win the EC, I'm not convinced Biden has a limit any higher. If anything he may be a bit better in the Midwest so the vote/EC split may stop at lower.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/15/keir-starmer-needs-win-scotland-not-pmqs-have-chance-election/

    The threat to Starmer’s – and to any successor’s – dreams of office comes from failing to win back Scotland. So long as Scots insist on returning regiments of nationalist MPs to Westminster, Starmer will be forced at the next election to explain whether he will contemplate coming to some sort of post-election arrangement whereby the SNP agree to maintain a minority Labour government in office. It’s not a question on which he can prevaricate: everyone watching the TV news will know that a simple yes or no answer is within his grasp. If the answer is no, how will he form a government? If it’s yes, what will he give the SNP in return?

    If Labour reaches 40% in GB polls, there is a good prospect of polling 30% in Scotland - at which point many SNP seats would become vulnerable. Were Starmer to develop serious momentum and become seen as a likely PM in 2024, I expect there will be a significant impact in Scotland.
    Maybe. OTOH the Sainted Jeremy got to 40% in 2017 and was rewarded with half-a-dozen barely held marginals, all of which he lost again two years down the line.

    Besides, when the SNP went a bit backwards the Tories made more gains than Labour did, so the performance was worse than useless from Labour's POV.
    In 2017, Labour's surge in Scotland seemed to happen very late and appeared to take almost everybody by surprise. Even I only suggested the possibility of 4 or 5 seats rather than the 7 Labour ended up with.I also suspect that many pro-Union Labour voters misdirected themselves by voting Tory and effectively denied Labour a few seats which otherwise would have been won. However, if Starmer is perceived to be a serious challenger over an extended period long before the election, I would anticipate a psychological impact to Labour's benefit. Labour could reasonably aim for 20 seats there next time.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401

    This week we have seen the EU and ECJ take on Germany's consitutional court, serve UK notice re freedom of movement, threaten the UK over a bi lateral deal with France, and now seeking to stop the agreement reached with Baltic Countries to act in their own bubble allowing movement to each other

    And on top of that show no awareness of the car crash that is a no deal

    How can anyone defend this institution

    Covid has thrown all it's structures into disarray

    It's become a culture wars/identity thing.

    There are too many people in this country for whom the EU can either do no wrong or do no right.
    I think there are a fair few who couldn’t give a toss anymore. The covid lockdown is the only game in town nowadays.
    "This week we have seen the EU and ECJ take on Germany's constitutional court"

    One could argue it was the other way around.

    Selfish Germany is dynamiting the eurozone
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/05/14/selfish-germany-dynamiting-eurozone/

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Much of Essex is absolutely lovely.

    Epping Forest
    Dedham Vale
    The Naze Coast

    It’s only ignoramuses like @TheScreamingEagles who think otherwise

    The area around Bishop's Stortford is fantastic.
    Bishop's Stortford is in Hertfordshire, of course - though if you go back far enough I believe that we used to be part of the Kingdom of Essex. As was the City of London.
    Really? I though a London was always Mercian not East Anglian ?
    No, it was Essex until the end of the seventh century, which stretched to St Alban’s. It was recaptured by the Danish East Anglians in the late eighth century. It was finally conquered and held by Aelfred and Aethelred after the Battle of Benfleet, whereupon it became officially part of Mercia but governed on its behalf by Wessex.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,460
    edited May 2020
    Are there many topics that get more column inches than Strawberries...

    https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1261379649239519232?s=19
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749

    This week we have seen the EU and ECJ take on Germany's consitutional court, serve UK notice re freedom of movement, threaten the UK over a bi lateral deal with France, and now seeking to stop the agreement reached with Baltic Countries to act in their own bubble allowing movement to each other

    And on top of that show no awareness of the car crash that is a no deal

    How can anyone defend this institution

    Covid has thrown all it's structures into disarray

    It's become a culture wars/identity thing.

    There are too many people in this country for whom the EU can either do no wrong or do no right.
    I think there are a fair few who couldn’t give a toss anymore. The covid lockdown is the only game in town nowadays.
    "This week we have seen the EU and ECJ take on Germany's constitutional court"

    One could argue it was the other way around.

    Selfish Germany is dynamiting the eurozone
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/05/14/selfish-germany-dynamiting-eurozone/

    Germany listening to its people and interests

    And this will be the story of the nations in the EU in the next few years
  • This week we have seen the EU and ECJ take on Germany's consitutional court, serve UK notice re freedom of movement, threaten the UK over a bi lateral deal with France, and now seeking to stop the agreement reached with Baltic Countries to act in their own bubble allowing movement to each other

    And on top of that show no awareness of the car crash that is a no deal

    How can anyone defend this institution

    Covid has thrown all it's structures into disarray

    That is one view.

    A different view is that the above shows how crucial it is to have such institutions to do do these things, because that is the only way to balance the pursuit of common purpose against the conflicts of interests of different, sovereign nation states.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Much of Essex is absolutely lovely.

    Epping Forest
    Dedham Vale
    The Naze Coast

    It’s only ignoramuses like @TheScreamingEagles who think otherwise

    The area around Bishop's Stortford is fantastic.
    Bishop's Stortford is in Hertfordshire, of course - though if you go back far enough I believe that we used to be part of the Kingdom of Essex. As was the City of London.
    Really? I though a London was always Mercian not East Anglian ?
    Several kingdoms played pass the parcel with London during the Anglo-Saxon period. Broadly speaking, it started in Essex, then got nicked by the Mercians, and finally - after some nastiness with the Danes - it ended up in Wessex.

    Essex itself was eventually overrun and passed back and forth between the Danes and Wessex a couple of times.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    This week we have seen the EU and ECJ take on Germany's consitutional court, serve UK notice re freedom of movement, threaten the UK over a bi lateral deal with France, and now seeking to stop the agreement reached with Baltic Countries to act in their own bubble allowing movement to each other

    And on top of that show no awareness of the car crash that is a no deal

    How can anyone defend this institution

    Covid has thrown all it's structures into disarray

    It's become a culture wars/identity thing.

    There are too many people in this country for whom the EU can either do no wrong or do no right.
    I think there are a fair few who couldn’t give a toss anymore. The covid lockdown is the only game in town nowadays.
    "This week we have seen the EU and ECJ take on Germany's constitutional court"

    One could argue it was the other way around.

    Selfish Germany is dynamiting the eurozone
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/05/14/selfish-germany-dynamiting-eurozone/

    That article's behind the paywall so I can't read it but the Germans and their courts have been entirely consistent on this matter. Its the ECJ and ECB that are trying to go back on what the Treaties of the European Union actually say and the Germans agreed to in Maastricht.

    If expecting others to live up to what they agreed to rather than what they think is right later is "selfish" and "unduly legalistic" then maybe don't share sovereignty with them.

    Though the Germans are discovering, like we did, that what an agreement says and what the EU wants it to mean later down the line may not be the same thing. If the Germans want their court to be relevant and not overruled by the ECJ there's only one way to do that - otherwise they're going to have to go along with whatever the others decide without them if need be.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,460
    Tracking is ready...really...are you sure minister?

    https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1261397985252040707?s=09
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Maybe the full article has some evidence, but the bit of article under the headline just states 15m people are estimated to be about to drive this weekend. Anyone know where that comes from?

    Who am I kidding. They're probably quoting someone with no expertise in the area.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749

    This week we have seen the EU and ECJ take on Germany's consitutional court, serve UK notice re freedom of movement, threaten the UK over a bi lateral deal with France, and now seeking to stop the agreement reached with Baltic Countries to act in their own bubble allowing movement to each other

    And on top of that show no awareness of the car crash that is a no deal

    How can anyone defend this institution

    Covid has thrown all it's structures into disarray

    That is one view.

    A different view is that the above shows how crucial it is to have such institutions to do do these things, because that is the only way to balance the pursuit of common purpose against the conflicts of interests of different, sovereign nation states.
    That is the EU view but not that of countries responsible to their electorate
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    Quincel said:

    Maybe the full article has some evidence, but the bit of article under the headline just states 15m people are estimated to be about to drive this weekend. Anyone know where that comes from?

    Who am I kidding. They're probably quoting someone with no expertise in the area.
    They need to get back on the weather, which is turning into a full blown drought in my end of things.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    Quincel said:

    Maybe the full article has some evidence, but the bit of article under the headline just states 15m people are estimated to be about to drive this weekend. Anyone know where that comes from?

    Who am I kidding. They're probably quoting someone with no expertise in the area.
    It was Diana’s ghost, of course. Particular alarm was expressed at the numbers who will be going through tunnels...

    Good night.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,460
    Hospital staff are treating just over 9,000 patients a day in England – down from 19,000 a few weeks ago. Admissions are now falling by around 2,000 a week.

    Still a long way to go.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Much of Essex is absolutely lovely.

    Epping Forest
    Dedham Vale
    The Naze Coast

    It’s only ignoramuses like @TheScreamingEagles who think otherwise

    The area around Bishop's Stortford is fantastic.
    Bishop's Stortford is in Hertfordshire, of course - though if you go back far enough I believe that we used to be part of the Kingdom of Essex. As was the City of London.
    Interesting point. Many of the villages around there are in Herts but have Essex postcodes. Go figure.
    CM (for Chelmsford) I presume? Postal areas cross county and even national boundaries across most of the map.
    "Post Counties" haven't been officially in use since 1996.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    Quincel said:

    Maybe the full article has some evidence, but the bit of article under the headline just states 15m people are estimated to be about to drive this weekend. Anyone know where that comes from?

    Who am I kidding. They're probably quoting someone with no expertise in the area.
    Weather and travel expert Piers Corbyn told the Daily Express...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    "A respected medical journal that has published trusted scientific research since the 1800s has taken the unprecedented step of telling Americans not to vote for Donald Trump in the upcoming election."

    Telegraph

  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042

    Quincel said:

    Maybe the full article has some evidence, but the bit of article under the headline just states 15m people are estimated to be about to drive this weekend. Anyone know where that comes from?

    Who am I kidding. They're probably quoting someone with no expertise in the area.
    They need to get back on the weather, which is turning into a full blown drought in my end of things.
    Yes, I started a herb garden out of boredom and it's more work than I'd hoped.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    This week we have seen the EU and ECJ take on Germany's consitutional court, serve UK notice re freedom of movement, threaten the UK over a bi lateral deal with France, and now seeking to stop the agreement reached with Baltic Countries to act in their own bubble allowing movement to each other

    And on top of that show no awareness of the car crash that is a no deal

    How can anyone defend this institution

    Covid has thrown all it's structures into disarray

    MRDA - but I agree with you 100%

    I'm glad now more than ever we've walked away and are walking away completely at the end of the transition period this year. What's coming in the next few years is going to not be great at the best of times but for Europe . . . its going to be one hot mess.

    Its remarkable that the UK has outgrown the Eurozone every both completed decades since it was created despite all the supposed troubles we've had in those times they've consistently struggled more - and the forthcoming decadex is going to be no difference. Not the yarn we were being warned about if we stayed out.

    If we were still in the EU the next decade would see relations going from bad to worse as we would end up on the hook for the bills for the Eurozone's ongoing malaise.

    The Eurozone was the worst structural idea in the western world since the League of Nations.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    ydoethur said:

    Quincel said:

    Maybe the full article has some evidence, but the bit of article under the headline just states 15m people are estimated to be about to drive this weekend. Anyone know where that comes from?

    Who am I kidding. They're probably quoting someone with no expertise in the area.
    It was Diana’s ghost, of course. Particular alarm was expressed at the numbers who will be going through tunnels...

    Good night.
    But what does it mean for house prices?!
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    Quincel said:

    Quincel said:

    Maybe the full article has some evidence, but the bit of article under the headline just states 15m people are estimated to be about to drive this weekend. Anyone know where that comes from?

    Who am I kidding. They're probably quoting someone with no expertise in the area.
    They need to get back on the weather, which is turning into a full blown drought in my end of things.

    Yes, I started a herb garden out of boredom and it's more work than I'd hoped.
    Broad beans. Lovely plants, lovely close up smell, lovely beans.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    Quincel said:

    Quincel said:

    Maybe the full article has some evidence, but the bit of article under the headline just states 15m people are estimated to be about to drive this weekend. Anyone know where that comes from?

    Who am I kidding. They're probably quoting someone with no expertise in the area.
    They need to get back on the weather, which is turning into a full blown drought in my end of things.
    Yes, I started a herb garden out of boredom and it's more work than I'd hoped.
    It's the news story that is not a news story. Weeks now with no rain.

    What is happening in farming? Bet it isn't good for food prices.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,460
    edited May 2020
    No austerity, no pay freezes, big ticket spending...Jezza is going to sue for stealing all his policies.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/15/boris-johnson-no-public-sector-pay-freeze-no-austerity-uk-emerges/
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    FF43 said:

    I see there's some hilarity on my comment of earlier.

    In the EU's words: the UK is too big and too close to have a deal like Canada's. In other words, they are worried about what we'd do with our powers to undercut their markets (an unlevel playing field).

    If we don't do a deal, and do start to undercut it and do rather well, then they've (a) lost any cliff-edge leverage and (b) will want better access to that successful market which, remember, still represents 20% of Europe's economy. That's a big and meaningful chunk.

    So we will get to a fair deal in the end but will have to go through a few years of WTO first to get there.

    This isn't a controversial point.

    It isn't a controversial point. But it's also why the LPF is the EU's absolute red line for any deal. We may go through WTO first and we will likely get to a deal eventually but it is very likely to include LPF conditions,
    I think the UK might eventually even accept some LPF conditions.

    But, not these conditions. Not now. And it would need to involve a level of UK-European co-governance.
    The key LPF conditions for the EU, I think are State Aid and Taxation (exemptions more than rates), because these are the easiest to game. The environment and social standards probably could pass on an equivalence basis. So it's up to the UK to find a way it can live with state aid and taxation rules that are the same as the EU and applied in the same way and make the case for it to the EU. Otherwise all deals are off indefinitely, I think.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279

    TGOHF666 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/15/keir-starmer-needs-win-scotland-not-pmqs-have-chance-election/

    The threat to Starmer’s – and to any successor’s – dreams of office comes from failing to win back Scotland. So long as Scots insist on returning regiments of nationalist MPs to Westminster, Starmer will be forced at the next election to explain whether he will contemplate coming to some sort of post-election arrangement whereby the SNP agree to maintain a minority Labour government in office. It’s not a question on which he can prevaricate: everyone watching the TV news will know that a simple yes or no answer is within his grasp. If the answer is no, how will he form a government? If it’s yes, what will he give the SNP in return?

    Striking an agreement under such circumstances is just the start of any prospective Labour PM's problems. Because the SNP will no doubt insist on Indyref2 (or Indyref3, if they've had and lost the second one in the meantime) and what happens if they win?

    It'd be fascinating watching Starmer trying to justify negotiating independence with Scotland whilst simultaneously being kept in Government in London only by the votes of Scottish MPs.

    Indeed, it's arguably in the long-term interests of English Labour as well as the English Tories for Scotland to go, given that Scottish Labour isn't coming back and independence would resolve this question permanently.
    If Starmer becomes PM there is virtually zero chance of Scottish independence as we would be back in the single market and with devomax for Holyrood.

    If there is indyref2 there will not be indyref3, 25 years after its indyref2 Quebec has still not had an independence vote from Canada
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    This week we have seen the EU and ECJ take on Germany's consitutional court, serve UK notice re freedom of movement, threaten the UK over a bi lateral deal with France, and now seeking to stop the agreement reached with Baltic Countries to act in their own bubble allowing movement to each other

    And on top of that show no awareness of the car crash that is a no deal

    How can anyone defend this institution

    Covid has thrown all it's structures into disarray

    That is one view.

    A different view is that the above shows how crucial it is to have such institutions to do do these things, because that is the only way to balance the pursuit of common purpose against the conflicts of interests of different, sovereign nation states.
    Why should there be a so-called 'common purpose'?

    The different, sovereign nation states should surely be answerable to their own voters and whatever they decide.

    Why should internationalism trump democracy?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279
    TGOHF666 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/15/keir-starmer-needs-win-scotland-not-pmqs-have-chance-election/

    The threat to Starmer’s – and to any successor’s – dreams of office comes from failing to win back Scotland. So long as Scots insist on returning regiments of nationalist MPs to Westminster, Starmer will be forced at the next election to explain whether he will contemplate coming to some sort of post-election arrangement whereby the SNP agree to maintain a minority Labour government in office. It’s not a question on which he can prevaricate: everyone watching the TV news will know that a simple yes or no answer is within his grasp. If the answer is no, how will he form a government? If it’s yes, what will he give the SNP in return?

    Starmer could form a government with the LDs and ignore the SNP if say the LDs win 30 to 50 seats next time
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Quincel said:

    Quincel said:

    Maybe the full article has some evidence, but the bit of article under the headline just states 15m people are estimated to be about to drive this weekend. Anyone know where that comes from?

    Who am I kidding. They're probably quoting someone with no expertise in the area.
    They need to get back on the weather, which is turning into a full blown drought in my end of things.
    Yes, I started a herb garden out of boredom and it's more work than I'd hoped.
    It's the news story that is not a news story. Weeks now with no rain.

    What is happening in farming? Bet it isn't good for food prices.
    I would imagine that we're still a long way from water shortages, owing to the very wet Winter. Certainly if this were starting to cause problems then it would probably appear somewhere in the news bulletins, even if the editors felt obliged to wait whilst they debated what would be the best way to shoehorn Covid into the story.

    Everything has to mention Covid nowadays. It's the rules.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    This week we have seen the EU and ECJ take on Germany's consitutional court, serve UK notice re freedom of movement, threaten the UK over a bi lateral deal with France, and now seeking to stop the agreement reached with Baltic Countries to act in their own bubble allowing movement to each other

    And on top of that show no awareness of the car crash that is a no deal

    How can anyone defend this institution

    Covid has thrown all it's structures into disarray

    That is one view.

    A different view is that the above shows how crucial it is to have such institutions to do do these things, because that is the only way to balance the pursuit of common purpose against the conflicts of interests of different, sovereign nation states.
    That is the EU view but not that of countries responsible to their electorate
    You realise it those countries that are driving the hard line that the EU is taking with the UK on LPF and fishing quotas?
  • This week we have seen the EU and ECJ take on Germany's consitutional court, serve UK notice re freedom of movement, threaten the UK over a bi lateral deal with France, and now seeking to stop the agreement reached with Baltic Countries to act in their own bubble allowing movement to each other

    And on top of that show no awareness of the car crash that is a no deal

    How can anyone defend this institution

    Covid has thrown all it's structures into disarray

    That is one view.

    A different view is that the above shows how crucial it is to have such institutions to do do these things, because that is the only way to balance the pursuit of common purpose against the conflicts of interests of different, sovereign nation states.
    That is the EU view but not that of countries responsible to their electorate
    That is my view, and - as of now - the official view of the governments of 27 different, sovereign and independent EU member states. That number may change, the views of some member states may change, because all these governments are ultimately responsible to their electorates, but as long as there is an organisation dedicated to the pursuit of a common purpose, there will need to be common institutions.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279

    She is just wrong.

    Maybe HYUFD will be along to defend her as no one else will
    Fine but you have to accept the lost revenue for the NHS.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279
    edited May 2020
    Government to abandon austerity and spend more on infrastructure and liberalise the tax regime not tighten it Boris says ie Treasury civil servants blueprint dismissed completely

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1261390282123288576?s=20
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/15/keir-starmer-needs-win-scotland-not-pmqs-have-chance-election/

    The threat to Starmer’s – and to any successor’s – dreams of office comes from failing to win back Scotland. So long as Scots insist on returning regiments of nationalist MPs to Westminster, Starmer will be forced at the next election to explain whether he will contemplate coming to some sort of post-election arrangement whereby the SNP agree to maintain a minority Labour government in office. It’s not a question on which he can prevaricate: everyone watching the TV news will know that a simple yes or no answer is within his grasp. If the answer is no, how will he form a government? If it’s yes, what will he give the SNP in return?

    Striking an agreement under such circumstances is just the start of any prospective Labour PM's problems. Because the SNP will no doubt insist on Indyref2 (or Indyref3, if they've had and lost the second one in the meantime) and what happens if they win?

    It'd be fascinating watching Starmer trying to justify negotiating independence with Scotland whilst simultaneously being kept in Government in London only by the votes of Scottish MPs.

    Indeed, it's arguably in the long-term interests of English Labour as well as the English Tories for Scotland to go, given that Scottish Labour isn't coming back and independence would resolve this question permanently.
    If Starmer becomes PM there is virtually zero chance of Scottish independence as we would be back in the single market and with devomax for Holyrood.

    If there is indyref2 there will not be indyref3, 25 years after its indyref2 Quebec has still not had an independence vote from Canada
    You seem to have this bizarre idea that Starmer can radically transform the country before he becomes PM.

    If Starmer requires the SNPs votes for confidence and supply then he'll need those before he enters Downing Street (like Cameron needed the Lib Dems votes) and he will have no choice but to agree to a referendum (like Cameron did the AV referendum). That would happen BEFORE any actions Starmer may want to do.

    In which case there'd be no devomax because the SNP would demand a referendum first. And negotiations may start with the EU on the Single Market but that would take years and again the SNP would demand the referendum to be agreed first.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,736
    rcs1000 said:

    Chris said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Sweden’s Coronavirus Strategy Will Soon Be the World’s
    Herd Immunity Is the Only Realistic Option—the Question Is How to Get There Safely
    By Nils Karlson, Charlotta Stern, and Daniel B. Klein"

    https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/sweden/2020-05-12/swedens-coronavirus-strategy-will-soon-be-worlds

    Of course, the argument hinges on the assumption that infection confers lasting immunity. They take that as read. It would be interesting to know why. They are a political scientist, a sociologist and an economist.
    All the evidence is that there is strong T cell response to CV-19.
    OK - a political scientist, a sociologist, an economist, and you.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    This week we have seen the EU and ECJ take on Germany's consitutional court, serve UK notice re freedom of movement, threaten the UK over a bi lateral deal with France, and now seeking to stop the agreement reached with Baltic Countries to act in their own bubble allowing movement to each other

    And on top of that show no awareness of the car crash that is a no deal

    How can anyone defend this institution

    Covid has thrown all it's structures into disarray

    MRDA - but I agree with you 100%

    I'm glad now more than ever we've walked away and are walking away completely at the end of the transition period this year. What's coming in the next few years is going to not be great at the best of times but for Europe . . . its going to be one hot mess.

    Its remarkable that the UK has outgrown the Eurozone every both completed decades since it was created despite all the supposed troubles we've had in those times they've consistently struggled more - and the forthcoming decadex is going to be no difference. Not the yarn we were being warned about if we stayed out.

    If we were still in the EU the next decade would see relations going from bad to worse as we would end up on the hook for the bills for the Eurozone's ongoing malaise.

    The Eurozone was the worst structural idea in the western world since the League of Nations.
    Regular predictions of the demise of the Eurozone have been being made at least since Greece first started circling the drain, with no result. And if what happened to the Greeks wasn't bad enough to persuade them to leave it, then I doubt that anybody else is going to either.

    The amount of political investment and willpower behind the project is simply too vast. They'll find a way to keep it going, no matter what.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    HYUFD said:
    We'll see, the gap between Johnson's words and actions is sometimes huge and sometimes tiny. It means waiting a while, but let's see if he wants to try and get this in his next couple of budgets and his MPs are voting for it.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    HYUFD said:
    What about carers and disabled?

    They watch as employees who can't work suddenly get 80% of their income paid by the state.

    Yet we have been told for years that the country can't afford to increase benefits for disabled.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    This week we have seen the EU and ECJ take on Germany's consitutional court, serve UK notice re freedom of movement, threaten the UK over a bi lateral deal with France, and now seeking to stop the agreement reached with Baltic Countries to act in their own bubble allowing movement to each other

    And on top of that show no awareness of the car crash that is a no deal

    How can anyone defend this institution

    Covid has thrown all it's structures into disarray

    MRDA - but I agree with you 100%

    I'm glad now more than ever we've walked away and are walking away completely at the end of the transition period this year. What's coming in the next few years is going to not be great at the best of times but for Europe . . . its going to be one hot mess.

    Its remarkable that the UK has outgrown the Eurozone every both completed decades since it was created despite all the supposed troubles we've had in those times they've consistently struggled more - and the forthcoming decadex is going to be no difference. Not the yarn we were being warned about if we stayed out.

    If we were still in the EU the next decade would see relations going from bad to worse as we would end up on the hook for the bills for the Eurozone's ongoing malaise.

    The Eurozone was the worst structural idea in the western world since the League of Nations.
    Regular predictions of the demise of the Eurozone have been being made at least since Greece first started circling the drain, with no result. And if what happened to the Greeks wasn't bad enough to persuade them to leave it, then I doubt that anybody else is going to either.

    The amount of political investment and willpower behind the project is simply too vast. They'll find a way to keep it going, no matter what.
    I'm not predicting the demise of the Eurozone. What I'm predicting is worse than that - and more mundane.

    The Eurozone isn't going to break up. Its just going to be shit. Its going to be sclerotic, unable to react to divergent nations requirements and countries are just going to struggle and fail to grow. They'll fall further and further behind freely floating countries that can adapt better.

    In other words what we've seen for the last couple of decades will continue.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279
    edited May 2020
    Quincel said:

    HYUFD said:
    We'll see, the gap between Johnson's words and actions is sometimes huge and sometimes tiny. It means waiting a while, but let's see if he wants to try and get this in his next couple of budgets and his MPs are voting for it.
    His MPs will vote for it given more of them are from northern and Midlands seats than ever before
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Much of Essex is absolutely lovely.

    Epping Forest
    Dedham Vale
    The Naze Coast

    It’s only ignoramuses like @TheScreamingEagles who think otherwise

    The area around Bishop's Stortford is fantastic.
    Bishop's Stortford is in Hertfordshire, of course - though if you go back far enough I believe that we used to be part of the Kingdom of Essex. As was the City of London.
    Interesting point. Many of the villages around there are in Herts but have Essex postcodes. Go figure.
    CM (for Chelmsford) I presume? Postal areas cross county and even national boundaries across most of the map.
    Yes
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,460
    He was simply doing his bit for hard up key workers in these troubled times.....

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/11635237/premier-league-ace-lockdown-paris-sex-party/
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited May 2020

    HYUFD said:
    What about carers and disabled?

    They watch as employees who can't work suddenly get 80% of their income paid by the state.

    Yet we have been told for years that the country can't afford to increase benefits for disabled.
    The employees have been paying taxes in the past and will be in the future. The payments they're getting are a proportion of their taxed income they were paying taxes on.

    Anyone on benefits is living on the taxes taken off the workers.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586
    welshowl said:

    Quincel said:

    Quincel said:

    Maybe the full article has some evidence, but the bit of article under the headline just states 15m people are estimated to be about to drive this weekend. Anyone know where that comes from?

    Who am I kidding. They're probably quoting someone with no expertise in the area.
    They need to get back on the weather, which is turning into a full blown drought in my end of things.

    Yes, I started a herb garden out of boredom and it's more work than I'd hoped.
    Broad beans. Lovely plants, lovely close up smell, lovely beans.
    Borlotti beans are the finest beans of all. They grow well here in the south of England.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,171
    Jonathan Meades did an interesting documentary on Essex a couple of years ago. It's available to watch in various places I think.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279
    edited May 2020

    HYUFD said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/15/keir-starmer-needs-win-scotland-not-pmqs-have-chance-election/

    The threat to Starmer’s – and to any successor’s – dreams of office comes from failing to win back Scotland. So long as Scots insist on returning regiments of nationalist MPs to Westminster, Starmer will be forced at the next election to explain whether he will contemplate coming to some sort of post-election arrangement whereby the SNP agree to maintain a minority Labour government in office. It’s not a question on which he can prevaricate: everyone watching the TV news will know that a simple yes or no answer is within his grasp. If the answer is no, how will he form a government? If it’s yes, what will he give the SNP in return?

    Striking an agreement under such circumstances is just the start of any prospective Labour PM's problems. Because the SNP will no doubt insist on Indyref2 (or Indyref3, if they've had and lost the second one in the meantime) and what happens if they win?

    It'd be fascinating watching Starmer trying to justify negotiating independence with Scotland whilst simultaneously being kept in Government in London only by the votes of Scottish MPs.

    Indeed, it's arguably in the long-term interests of English Labour as well as the English Tories for Scotland to go, given that Scottish Labour isn't coming back and independence would resolve this question permanently.
    If Starmer becomes PM there is virtually zero chance of Scottish independence as we would be back in the single market and with devomax for Holyrood.

    If there is indyref2 there will not be indyref3, 25 years after its indyref2 Quebec has still not had an independence vote from Canada
    You seem to have this bizarre idea that Starmer can radically transform the country before he becomes PM.

    If Starmer requires the SNPs votes for confidence and supply then he'll need those before he enters Downing Street (like Cameron needed the Lib Dems votes) and he will have no choice but to agree to a referendum (like Cameron did the AV referendum). That would happen BEFORE any actions Starmer may want to do.

    In which case there'd be no devomax because the SNP would demand a referendum first. And negotiations may start with the EU on the Single Market but that would take years and again the SNP would demand the referendum to be agreed first.
    Maybe but given Starmer will also be negotiating to rejoin the single market as soon as he enters No 10 and a referendum will take years to organise there is near zero chance of Scots voting Yes.

    Obviously devomax would come after the referendum but as in 2014 promises of more powers increases the No vote.

    The only chance the SNP have of a Yes vote is Boris in No 10 and the UK on WTO terms but of course Boris has banned indyref2 anyway and has a majority of 80
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401

    HYUFD said:
    What about carers and disabled?

    They watch as employees who can't work suddenly get 80% of their income paid by the state.

    Yet we have been told for years that the country can't afford to increase benefits for disabled.
    The employees have been paying taxes in the past and will be in the future. The payments they're getting are a proportion of their taxed income they were paying taxes on.

    Anyone on benefits is living on the taxes taken off the workers.
    Many carers are older and have paid taxes and NI for decades.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    edited May 2020
    Chris said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Chris said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Sweden’s Coronavirus Strategy Will Soon Be the World’s
    Herd Immunity Is the Only Realistic Option—the Question Is How to Get There Safely
    By Nils Karlson, Charlotta Stern, and Daniel B. Klein"

    https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/sweden/2020-05-12/swedens-coronavirus-strategy-will-soon-be-worlds

    Of course, the argument hinges on the assumption that infection confers lasting immunity. They take that as read. It would be interesting to know why. They are a political scientist, a sociologist and an economist.
    All the evidence is that there is strong T cell response to CV-19.
    OK - a political scientist, a sociologist, an economist, and you.
    Chris. Is this you?

    https://www-thedailymash-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/health/man-self-diagnoses-as-expert-epidemiologist-20200415195502?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&format=amp&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA=#aoh=15895788892653&referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/health/man-self-diagnoses-as-expert-epidemiologist-20200415195502
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited May 2020
    HYUFD said:

    Government to abandon austerity and spend more on infrastructure and liberalise the tax regime not tighten it Boris says ie Treasury civil servants blueprint dismissed completely

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1261390282123288576?s=20

    The simple reality is nobody knows right now and its impossible to guess now what the future holds. That is literally a bridge that will need to be crossed when we get there.

    But the PM does need to inspire confidence for the future. The more confidence there is in the future, the more likely we are to bridge this crisis and come out the other side with less damage and thus need fewer hard decisions going forwards.

    If the PM was running around now like a headless chicken saying "this is awful, just awful, I'm going to have to raise taxes, we're going to have to cut benefits" and basically all the nonsense that George Osborne came out with just before the referendum but believed then that would make the long term effects of the recession worse. Which means more hard choices will be needed as a result.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    HYUFD said:

    She is just wrong.

    Maybe HYUFD will be along to defend her as no one else will
    Fine but you have to accept the lost revenue for the NHS.
    I would prefer her resignation/sacking

    She is a liability with no compassion
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Much of Essex is absolutely lovely.

    Epping Forest
    Dedham Vale
    The Naze Coast

    It’s only ignoramuses like @TheScreamingEagles who think otherwise

    The area around Bishop's Stortford is fantastic.
    Bishop's Stortford is in Hertfordshire, of course - though if you go back far enough I believe that we used to be part of the Kingdom of Essex. As was the City of London.
    Really? I though a London was always Mercian not East Anglian ?
    No, it was Essex until the end of the seventh century, which stretched to St Alban’s. It was recaptured by the Danish East Anglians in the late eighth century. It was finally conquered and held by Aelfred and Aethelred after the Battle of Benfleet, whereupon it became officially part of Mercia but governed on its behalf by Wessex.
    Nobody wanted it, even back then
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279

    HYUFD said:
    What about carers and disabled?

    They watch as employees who can't work suddenly get 80% of their income paid by the state.

    Yet we have been told for years that the country can't afford to increase benefits for disabled.
    Hence IDS did such good work to get the disabled into paid work
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    Charles said:

    Much of Essex is absolutely lovely.

    Epping Forest
    Dedham Vale
    The Naze Coast

    It’s only ignoramuses like @TheScreamingEagles who think otherwise

    Its like France, beautiful country shame its full of French people (i am joking).
    I am glad you owned up to a rather crude and offensive joke. It's not that beautiful.
    You are either a complete crank or you have barely visited France.

    Actually, don’t bother responding. I already know which it is!
    I lived in Nice for three months.
    I hope you liked the old town - and also took the opportunity to visit the plethora of other gems that contribute to its being the world’s most popular country for visitors.
    Too much dog shit in Nice.

    Still better than the human shit in Monoco
    Haha - remember the dogshit well. It was almost religious the way the residents insisted their little rat dogs decorated the pavement.

    But there are of course some delightful aspects. I preferred Antibes and the surrounding area to Nice itself. There is a cute adjoining town Cagnes Sur Mer, which was nice.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    HYUFD said:

    Government to abandon austerity and spend more on infrastructure and liberalise the tax regime not tighten it Boris says ie Treasury civil servants blueprint dismissed completely

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1261390282123288576?s=20

    That’s the right move from Boris. The cranky deficit hawks must be kept at bay.
    Raising taxes and cutting spending would be utterly insane given the fragility of any recovery.

    Borrow and print.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    HYUFD said:
    What about carers and disabled?

    They watch as employees who can't work suddenly get 80% of their income paid by the state.

    Yet we have been told for years that the country can't afford to increase benefits for disabled.
    The employees have been paying taxes in the past and will be in the future. The payments they're getting are a proportion of their taxed income they were paying taxes on.

    Anyone on benefits is living on the taxes taken off the workers.
    Many carers are older and have paid taxes and NI for decades.
    And they'll be eligible to pensions etc based upon those contributions no doubt if they're old enough.

    Paying for a one off crisis is one thing, paying someone's wages at a higher rate permanently is something else. The government couldn't permanently pay the furlough scheme yet you're trying to permanently adjust benefits for those who aren't working based on a one-off temporary scheme.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    FF43 said:

    This week we have seen the EU and ECJ take on Germany's consitutional court, serve UK notice re freedom of movement, threaten the UK over a bi lateral deal with France, and now seeking to stop the agreement reached with Baltic Countries to act in their own bubble allowing movement to each other

    And on top of that show no awareness of the car crash that is a no deal

    How can anyone defend this institution

    Covid has thrown all it's structures into disarray

    That is one view.

    A different view is that the above shows how crucial it is to have such institutions to do do these things, because that is the only way to balance the pursuit of common purpose against the conflicts of interests of different, sovereign nation states.
    That is the EU view but not that of countries responsible to their electorate
    You realise it those countries that are driving the hard line that the EU is taking with the UK on LPF and fishing quotas?
    New York, March 25th 2113: almost a century since the former United Kingdom left the former European Union, and 38 years after England became the 61st state, trade negotiations between the US and the New Hanseatic League broke down yet again over the vexed issue of shellfish quotas...
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Quincel said:

    Quincel said:

    Maybe the full article has some evidence, but the bit of article under the headline just states 15m people are estimated to be about to drive this weekend. Anyone know where that comes from?

    Who am I kidding. They're probably quoting someone with no expertise in the area.
    They need to get back on the weather, which is turning into a full blown drought in my end of things.
    Yes, I started a herb garden out of boredom and it's more work than I'd hoped.
    It's the news story that is not a news story. Weeks now with no rain.

    What is happening in farming? Bet it isn't good for food prices.
    I would imagine that we're still a long way from water shortages, owing to the very wet Winter. Certainly if this were starting to cause problems then it would probably appear somewhere in the news bulletins, even if the editors felt obliged to wait whilst they debated what would be the best way to shoehorn Covid into the story.

    Everything has to mention Covid nowadays. It's the rules.
    Full reservoirs don't help crops though. The grass has stopped growing here in Devon, and no rain forecast for weeks.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279
    edited May 2020

    HYUFD said:

    Government to abandon austerity and spend more on infrastructure and liberalise the tax regime not tighten it Boris says ie Treasury civil servants blueprint dismissed completely

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1261390282123288576?s=20

    That’s the right move from Boris. The cranky deficit hawks must be kept at bay.
    Raising taxes and cutting spending would be utterly insane given the fragility of any
    recovery.

    Borrow and print.
    Yes Boris is a Keynesian not a Monetarist, a Berlusconi not an Osborne
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    Andy_JS said:

    Jonathan Meades did an interesting documentary on Essex a couple of years ago. It's available to watch in various places I think.

    It’s probably England’s most underrated county. Absolutely beautiful in parts. It also has the longest coastline of any English county!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586

    FF43 said:

    This week we have seen the EU and ECJ take on Germany's consitutional court, serve UK notice re freedom of movement, threaten the UK over a bi lateral deal with France, and now seeking to stop the agreement reached with Baltic Countries to act in their own bubble allowing movement to each other

    And on top of that show no awareness of the car crash that is a no deal

    How can anyone defend this institution

    Covid has thrown all it's structures into disarray

    That is one view.

    A different view is that the above shows how crucial it is to have such institutions to do do these things, because that is the only way to balance the pursuit of common purpose against the conflicts of interests of different, sovereign nation states.
    That is the EU view but not that of countries responsible to their electorate
    You realise it those countries that are driving the hard line that the EU is taking with the UK on LPF and fishing quotas?
    New York, March 25th 2113: almost a century since the former United Kingdom left the former European Union, and 38 years after England became the 61st state, trade negotiations between the US and the New Hanseatic League broke down yet again over the vexed issue of shellfish quotas...
    61st state? Which were numbers 51 to 60?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,460
    For the real geeks among us, special volume of the Harvard Data Science Review.

    COVID-19: Unprecedented Challenges and Chances

    https://hdsr.mitpress.mit.edu/specialissue1
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480

    HYUFD said:

    She is just wrong.

    Maybe HYUFD will be along to defend her as no one else will
    Fine but you have to accept the lost revenue for the NHS.
    I would prefer her resignation/sacking

    She is a liability with no compassion
    She's Priti vacant.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586

    Andy_JS said:

    Jonathan Meades did an interesting documentary on Essex a couple of years ago. It's available to watch in various places I think.

    It’s probably England’s most underrated county. Absolutely beautiful in parts. It also has the longest coastline of any English county!
    Er... Cornwall says hello!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    IshmaelZ said:

    Quincel said:

    Quincel said:

    Maybe the full article has some evidence, but the bit of article under the headline just states 15m people are estimated to be about to drive this weekend. Anyone know where that comes from?

    Who am I kidding. They're probably quoting someone with no expertise in the area.
    They need to get back on the weather, which is turning into a full blown drought in my end of things.
    Yes, I started a herb garden out of boredom and it's more work than I'd hoped.
    It's the news story that is not a news story. Weeks now with no rain.

    What is happening in farming? Bet it isn't good for food prices.
    I would imagine that we're still a long way from water shortages, owing to the very wet Winter. Certainly if this were starting to cause problems then it would probably appear somewhere in the news bulletins, even if the editors felt obliged to wait whilst they debated what would be the best way to shoehorn Covid into the story.

    Everything has to mention Covid nowadays. It's the rules.
    Full reservoirs don't help crops though. The grass has stopped growing here in Devon, and no rain forecast for weeks.
    This spring is incredibly dry. I’m a keen gardener and slightly obsessive about my lawn. My water bill is going to be seriously ugly.
This discussion has been closed.