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  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    If the UK aren't going to exempt the French, I presume the French won't reciprocate, so no holidays in the South of France for anybody thinking they were going to....Outraged of Oxford will soon be writing to the Guardian about this.

    Why would anyone want to go to the South of France for a holiday when the UK has Blackpool, Cleethorpes, and Southend-on-Sea?
    I'd put Devon, Cornwall, Dorset, Pembrokeshire and the west coast of Scotland ahead of those but each to their own.
    Oh I agree.

    I just have a soft spot for Blackpool.

    But Cleethorpes is full of Dingles and Southend is in Essex! Ugh.
    Even Alistair Meeks lives in Essex and he is even more ponceyboots lawyer and Brexit hater than you
    Aren't you and he and his partner the only remainers in the village?
    Outrageous! @HYUFD is in St George flag Brexit Essex while I’m in Union Jack Brexit Essex.
    He's not far from me, I think, and we had a group in the market place campaigning for Remain on June 16th.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    This is all about the government’s finances.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951

    Andy_JS said:

    What's a travelodge? I have heard about them in the way I have heard about these people called the Lib Dems.

    Travelodge or Premier Inn?
    Premier Inn much better than Travelodge - and not just because I did some work for Whitbread.
    It depends. On average yes - there are some dire older Travelodges - but otoh the newest ones are nearly as good as Premier Inn and usually quite a bit cheaper.
    I find the Hub by Premier Inn places quite good, particularly as I only ever really sleep in the room and want a comfortable night's sleep over space. I stay there quite a lot when it's on my dime rather than on expenses. I have stayed in some fantastic hotels over the years on expenses but I think you'd have to be mad to pay for them, when you spend 90% of your time in the room asleep.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    eadric said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    If the UK aren't going to exempt the French, I presume the French won't reciprocate, so no holidays in the South of France for anybody thinking they were going to....Outraged of Oxford will soon be writing to the Guardian about this.

    Why would anyone want to go to the South of France for a holiday when the UK has Blackpool, Cleethorpes, and Southend-on-Sea?
    I'd put Devon, Cornwall, Dorset, Pembrokeshire and the west coast of Scotland ahead of those but each to their own.
    Oh I agree.

    I just have a soft spot for Blackpool.

    But Cleethorpes is full of Dingles and Southend is in Essex! Ugh.
    Even Alistair Meeks lives in Essex and he is even more ponceyboots lawyer and Brexit hater than you
    A quick google shows that the excellent word ‘ponceyboots’ ONLY exists on PB

    We are creating our own dialect
    The originator must be itching to take credit for it...if he ever looks in on PB.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,354
    OllyT said:

    Alistair said:

    kinabalu said:

    Alistair said:

    A 6 point Biden lead in Florida is Trump Toast level of lead. Absolute smashing.

    I'll believe it when I see it.

    4 Nov - :smile:
    Hey, I am not just on the Trump is Going to Lose train I am the Conductor. But Florida by 6 would be a monstrous win in modern terms.
    Biden has polled surprisingly well in Florida given it was a poor set of results for the Democrats in 2018 set against a national "wave" election.

    It would be a huge boost for him. As it stands, gaining the three most marginal Trump 2016 states (Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin) would be enough but leaves no room for error. Winning Florida would allow him to miss any ONE of those three, or Wisconsin plus one of the others. It increases his margin of error quite a bit.
    I suspect the sheer volume of retirees in Florida is helping Biden, I doubt many of them are too impressed by Trump's coronavirus antics.
    Biden is closer to their age. They'd trust him more than a young whippersnapper like Trump.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    What's a travelodge? I have heard about them in the way I have heard about these people called the Lib Dems.

    The Hawaiian pizzas of hotels.
    As a poor grad student, in early days of dating Mrs U, we went away on a trip and I booked to stay at a travelodge at it was obviously cheap.

    Mrs U being of rather classier background than me, had never stayed at such an establishment. I was soon informed if we wanted to carry on dating that this would be the last time we would be staying at such an establishment.
    This was out of necessity and not choice.

    I'd sooner sleep in my car than a Travelodge.
    I lived in my car for nearly 2 weeks. A green BMW 318 company car. I got sacked and split with my g/f on the same day and went on the run in it.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    If the UK aren't going to exempt the French, I presume the French won't reciprocate, so no holidays in the South of France for anybody thinking they were going to....Outraged of Oxford will soon be writing to the Guardian about this.

    Why would anyone want to go to the South of France for a holiday when the UK has Blackpool, Cleethorpes, and Southend-on-Sea?
    Ubergeeks like yours truly will point out that Blackpool has an extensive tram line, Cleethorpes rail station is almost directly on the beach, and that Southend has both a narrow-gauge pier railway and a clifftop funicular!
    My usual train for commuting was the Cleethorpes to Manchester Airport service.
    I last went to Cleethorpes in November, after doing the Saturday-only Retford to Barnetby train.
    Cleethorpes has seen better days but it isn't quite as depressing as Blackpool. I believe the Humberston 'Fitties' are now listed. I quite like the coastline to the S although it is a bit esoteric for some perhaps.

    All I need for a holiday is to be able to park a car in Scotland for a few days. It isn't hard to social distance on Bidein a'Choire Sheasgaich or Ben Alder, although that doesn't exactly benefit the economy much.

    Unfortunately May and early June is the time for that kind of thing and August is most definitely not...
    Why not August? Midges?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,250
    kyf_100 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What's a travelodge? I have heard about them in the way I have heard about these people called the Lib Dems.

    Travelodge or Premier Inn?
    Premier Inn much better than Travelodge - and not just because I did some work for Whitbread.
    It depends. On average yes - there are some dire older Travelodges - but otoh the newest ones are nearly as good as Premier Inn and usually quite a bit cheaper.
    I find the Hub by Premier Inn places quite good, particularly as I only ever really sleep in the room and want a comfortable night's sleep over space. I stay there quite a lot when it's on my dime rather than on expenses. I have stayed in some fantastic hotels over the years on expenses but I think you'd have to be mad to pay for them, when you spend 90% of your time in the room asleep.
    They are the people who enabled me to do a tour of virtually every cathedral in England paying £5 a night for the accommodation.

    Though the catering in our local one now seems to be Greggs, so no more Jubilee Pancakes.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,250

    eadric said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    If the UK aren't going to exempt the French, I presume the French won't reciprocate, so no holidays in the South of France for anybody thinking they were going to....Outraged of Oxford will soon be writing to the Guardian about this.

    Why would anyone want to go to the South of France for a holiday when the UK has Blackpool, Cleethorpes, and Southend-on-Sea?
    I'd put Devon, Cornwall, Dorset, Pembrokeshire and the west coast of Scotland ahead of those but each to their own.
    Oh I agree.

    I just have a soft spot for Blackpool.

    But Cleethorpes is full of Dingles and Southend is in Essex! Ugh.
    Even Alistair Meeks lives in Essex and he is even more ponceyboots lawyer and Brexit hater than you
    A quick google shows that the excellent word ‘ponceyboots’ ONLY exists on PB

    We are creating our own dialect
    The originator must be itching to take credit for it...if he ever looks in on PB.
    And twitter.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1261368146084143106
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675
    MattW said:

    eadric said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    If the UK aren't going to exempt the French, I presume the French won't reciprocate, so no holidays in the South of France for anybody thinking they were going to....Outraged of Oxford will soon be writing to the Guardian about this.

    Why would anyone want to go to the South of France for a holiday when the UK has Blackpool, Cleethorpes, and Southend-on-Sea?
    I'd put Devon, Cornwall, Dorset, Pembrokeshire and the west coast of Scotland ahead of those but each to their own.
    Oh I agree.

    I just have a soft spot for Blackpool.

    But Cleethorpes is full of Dingles and Southend is in Essex! Ugh.
    Even Alistair Meeks lives in Essex and he is even more ponceyboots lawyer and Brexit hater than you
    A quick google shows that the excellent word ‘ponceyboots’ ONLY exists on PB

    We are creating our own dialect
    The originator must be itching to take credit for it...if he ever looks in on PB.
    And twitter.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1261368146084143106
    It is what we working class Northerners would call a 'soft arse'.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Presume it’s a rogue poll in Florida.

    If Trumpton really is six points behind in the Sunshine State he is in deep, deep trouble.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898
    MattW said:
    My recollection is the phrase was "gaylord ponceyboots" and it was used about a former Prime Minister.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    MattW said:

    eadric said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    If the UK aren't going to exempt the French, I presume the French won't reciprocate, so no holidays in the South of France for anybody thinking they were going to....Outraged of Oxford will soon be writing to the Guardian about this.

    Why would anyone want to go to the South of France for a holiday when the UK has Blackpool, Cleethorpes, and Southend-on-Sea?
    I'd put Devon, Cornwall, Dorset, Pembrokeshire and the west coast of Scotland ahead of those but each to their own.
    Oh I agree.

    I just have a soft spot for Blackpool.

    But Cleethorpes is full of Dingles and Southend is in Essex! Ugh.
    Even Alistair Meeks lives in Essex and he is even more ponceyboots lawyer and Brexit hater than you
    A quick google shows that the excellent word ‘ponceyboots’ ONLY exists on PB

    We are creating our own dialect
    The originator must be itching to take credit for it...if he ever looks in on PB.
    And twitter.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1261368146084143106
    I believe the full term was gaylord ponceyboots.
    In those days it was more a question about the possibility of David Cameron being such a creature rather than an assertion, I fear there will be no doubt in the mind of its author now.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    kinabalu said:

    BoJo was NOT seventeen and a half stone (!) before the virus He's only 5 ft 8 inches tall. If he had weighed that much he would have looked like Mr Creosote.

    Is he spinning yet another self-serving yarn?

    Agreed. No way he/is was that heavy. He’s very portly but that’s absurd.

    Having met Bozza, I’d put him as 5-8 and about 14-7.

    Fat, certainly.

    Creosote, nope.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    O/T

    An interesting new song has just entered the charts on BBC4 Top of the Pops: Ride On Time by Black Box.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited May 2020
    Do we count this under a journey for work? As i don't think going on a booze cruise to France is currently allowed under the eased lockdown restrictions.

    https://twitter.com/SimonJonesNews/status/1261206755918430208?s=19
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    edited May 2020
    IanB2 said:

    The Guardian live feed mentions Tammy Duckworth as a possible Biden VP pick... but can a VP candidate be born outside the US?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/may/15/coronavirus-us-live-house-vote-stimulus-package-donald-trump-latest-news-updates

    Yes, you are a natural born citizen if your parents were working overseas for the US Government/armed forces when you were born.

    It is something that was confirmed when John McCain who was born outside the US was deemed eligible to run for President.
    Because the US insists that its various overseas bases are actually US soil.
    No, because "natural born" means US citizen from birth. So Ted Cruz, despite being born in Canada, is qualified to be POTUS because he inherited US citizenship at birth from his American mother. Duckworth similarly gets her citizenship from her American father, despite being born in Thailand.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951

    Do we count this under a journey for work? As i don't think going on a booze cruise to France is currently allowed under the eased lockdown restrictions.

    https://twitter.com/SimonJonesNews/status/1261206755918430208?s=19

    It's odd, isn't it. We think of our money as our own, but if you had 100k in your account and you went into the bank tomorrow to get it they wouldn't let you have it.

    And if you did manage to get hold of it, if you tried to take it out of the country you'd be locked up.

    And people say Bitcoin is a scam...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    19:51
    Find lockdown ‘sex buddy’, Dutch singles advised
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Pulpstar said:

    19:51
    Find lockdown ‘sex buddy’, Dutch singles advised

    Wasnt Prof Ferguson sex buddy Dutch?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675
    kyf_100 said:

    Do we count this under a journey for work? As i don't think going on a booze cruise to France is currently allowed under the eased lockdown restrictions.

    https://twitter.com/SimonJonesNews/status/1261206755918430208?s=19

    It's odd, isn't it. We think of our money as our own, but if you had 100k in your account and you went into the bank tomorrow to get it they wouldn't let you have it.

    And if you did manage to get hold of it, if you tried to take it out of the country you'd be locked up.

    And people say Bitcoin is a scam...
    Actually that's not true, so long as you give enough notice (usually 2 working days) you can withdraw £90k in cash.

    So long as you have source of funds documentation you'll be fine.

    The bigger issue is trying to put £90k cash into a bank account.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,681
    edited May 2020
    IshmaelZ said:

    If the UK aren't going to exempt the French, I presume the French won't reciprocate, so no holidays in the South of France for anybody thinking they were going to....Outraged of Oxford will soon be writing to the Guardian about this.

    Why would anyone want to go to the South of France for a holiday when the UK has Blackpool, Cleethorpes, and Southend-on-Sea?
    Ubergeeks like yours truly will point out that Blackpool has an extensive tram line, Cleethorpes rail station is almost directly on the beach, and that Southend has both a narrow-gauge pier railway and a clifftop funicular!
    My usual train for commuting was the Cleethorpes to Manchester Airport service.
    I last went to Cleethorpes in November, after doing the Saturday-only Retford to Barnetby train.
    Cleethorpes has seen better days but it isn't quite as depressing as Blackpool. I believe the Humberston 'Fitties' are now listed. I quite like the coastline to the S although it is a bit esoteric for some perhaps.

    All I need for a holiday is to be able to park a car in Scotland for a few days. It isn't hard to social distance on Bidein a'Choire Sheasgaich or Ben Alder, although that doesn't exactly benefit the economy much.

    Unfortunately May and early June is the time for that kind of thing and August is most definitely not...
    Why not August? Midges?
    Partly. They aren't much fun when camping wild, although if the weather is good you can stay high up and hope for a breeze.

    The other reason is rain. March - May is the driest period in western Scotland. August is quite a wet month (and is also wetter in England to some extent).

    I always wonder why English school holidays are in August, long after the best weather.

    Now would be a good time to move them permanently.



  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898
    Just a word on the recent US State polls.

    In New Jersey, Clinton beat Trump by 14 in 2016 but Biden leads by 23. In Ohio, Trump won by 8 but is now up by only 3.

    In Texas, Trump won by 9 and is now up by 6 while in North Carolina Trump won by four and now leads by three.

    In Florida Trump won by one last time and now trails by six so we can deduce there's a 2.5-3% swing away from Trump out there.

    Better news from California where Trump lost by 30 and is still only 30 behind Biden so he's doing all right.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,489
    I see there's some hilarity on my comment of earlier.

    In the EU's words: the UK is too big and too close to have a deal like Canada's. In other words, they are worried about what we'd do with our powers to undercut their markets (an unlevel playing field).

    If we don't do a deal, and do start to undercut it and do rather well, then they've (a) lost any cliff-edge leverage and (b) will want better access to that successful market which, remember, still represents 20% of Europe's economy. That's a big and meaningful chunk.

    So we will get to a fair deal in the end but will have to go through a few years of WTO first to get there.

    This isn't a controversial point.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117

    I see there's some hilarity on my comment of earlier.

    In the EU's words: the UK is too big and too close to have a deal like Canada's. In other words, they are worried about what we'd do with our powers to undercut their markets (an unlevel playing field).

    If we don't do a deal, and do start to undercut it and do rather well, then they've (a) lost any cliff-edge leverage and (b) will want better access to that successful market which, remember, still represents 20% of Europe's economy. That's a big and meaningful chunk.

    So we will get to a fair deal in the end but will have to go through a few years of WTO first to get there.

    This isn't a controversial point.

    Not a controversial post, just an idiotic one.....

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,489
    Andy_JS said:

    What's a travelodge? I have heard about them in the way I have heard about these people called the Lib Dems.

    Travelodge or Premier Inn?
    That's like asking White Lightning or Bulmers.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,489

    Yorkcity said:

    HYUFD said:

    If the UK aren't going to exempt the French, I presume the French won't reciprocate, so no holidays in the South of France for anybody thinking they were going to....Outraged of Oxford will soon be writing to the Guardian about this.

    Never mind, there is always Blackpool or Southend
    Imagine thinking that Blackpool or Southend are good places to go on holiday. :D Next you’ll be suggesting Whitley Bay!
    Honestly, going to shitholes makes you appreciate the best places even more.

    Like the time I had to stay in a Premier Inn.
    Premier Inns are fine , better than Travellodge.
    It might have been a Travel lodge.

    They handed me my breakfast at check in.

    I thought it was just complimentary stuff you get at check in.

    The next morning was a shock when I was informed that I had been handed my breakfast at check in.
    Was it the Linton travel tavern?

    You have to bring your own 12" plate to get the most value out of the buffet there.
    Nope, this was near Southampton when there was a football match on.

    The restaurant was a vending machine.
    You're obviously not an Alan Partridge fan.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,489
    tyson said:

    I see there's some hilarity on my comment of earlier.

    In the EU's words: the UK is too big and too close to have a deal like Canada's. In other words, they are worried about what we'd do with our powers to undercut their markets (an unlevel playing field).

    If we don't do a deal, and do start to undercut it and do rather well, then they've (a) lost any cliff-edge leverage and (b) will want better access to that successful market which, remember, still represents 20% of Europe's economy. That's a big and meaningful chunk.

    So we will get to a fair deal in the end but will have to go through a few years of WTO first to get there.

    This isn't a controversial point.

    Not a controversial post, just an idiotic one.....

    Only for those too blind to see.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885

    IshmaelZ said:

    If the UK aren't going to exempt the French, I presume the French won't reciprocate, so no holidays in the South of France for anybody thinking they were going to....Outraged of Oxford will soon be writing to the Guardian about this.

    Why would anyone want to go to the South of France for a holiday when the UK has Blackpool, Cleethorpes, and Southend-on-Sea?
    Ubergeeks like yours truly will point out that Blackpool has an extensive tram line, Cleethorpes rail station is almost directly on the beach, and that Southend has both a narrow-gauge pier railway and a clifftop funicular!
    My usual train for commuting was the Cleethorpes to Manchester Airport service.
    I last went to Cleethorpes in November, after doing the Saturday-only Retford to Barnetby train.
    Cleethorpes has seen better days but it isn't quite as depressing as Blackpool. I believe the Humberston 'Fitties' are now listed. I quite like the coastline to the S although it is a bit esoteric for some perhaps.

    All I need for a holiday is to be able to park a car in Scotland for a few days. It isn't hard to social distance on Bidein a'Choire Sheasgaich or Ben Alder, although that doesn't exactly benefit the economy much.

    Unfortunately May and early June is the time for that kind of thing and August is most definitely not...
    Why not August? Midges?
    Partly. They aren't much fun when camping wild, although if the weather is good you can stay high up and hope for a breeze.

    The other reason is rain. March - May is the driest period in western Scotland. August is quite a wet month (and is also wetter in England to some extent).

    I always wonder why English school holidays are in August, long after the best weather.

    Now would be a good time to move them permanently.



    There's a fair bit to be said for Scotland in September, too.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    kinabalu said:

    What's a travelodge? I have heard about them in the way I have heard about these people called the Lib Dems.

    The Hawaiian pizzas of hotels.
    As a poor grad student, in early days of dating Mrs U, we went away on a trip and I booked to stay at a travelodge at it was obviously cheap.

    Mrs U being of rather classier background than me, had never stayed at such an establishment. I was soon informed if we wanted to carry on dating that this would be the last time we would be staying at such an establishment.
    This was out of necessity and not choice.

    I'd sooner sleep in my car than a Travelodge.
    I lived in my car for nearly 2 weeks. A green BMW 318 company car. I got sacked and split with my g/f on the same day and went on the run in it.
    When I went to Nazareth, I arrived too late to book into the guesthouse because of a security flap at Luton, so I had to sleep in my car.

    It was a little Chevvy Spark, and as I’m quite big it was very uncomfortable.

    It was worse because like a stupid pillock I had forgotten to buy any water. So I was very thirsty indeed come the morning.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,489

    kyf_100 said:

    Do we count this under a journey for work? As i don't think going on a booze cruise to France is currently allowed under the eased lockdown restrictions.

    https://twitter.com/SimonJonesNews/status/1261206755918430208?s=19

    It's odd, isn't it. We think of our money as our own, but if you had 100k in your account and you went into the bank tomorrow to get it they wouldn't let you have it.

    And if you did manage to get hold of it, if you tried to take it out of the country you'd be locked up.

    And people say Bitcoin is a scam...
    Actually that's not true, so long as you give enough notice (usually 2 working days) you can withdraw £90k in cash.

    So long as you have source of funds documentation you'll be fine.

    The bigger issue is trying to put £90k cash into a bank account.
    What source of funds documentation do you need? Salary slips going back years, or a chit from a house sale?

    I presume a bank statement and ID isn't enough.

    Do they ask you what you intend to do with it and where you intend to store it?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898
    Just glancing at the latest European polls, Boris Johnson and the Conservatives are far from unique in having a commanding lead currently.

    The Conservatives in Britain are 19 points ahead based on the latest Kantar poll. In Portugal, the ruling Socialists are 17 points ahead according to the latest poll. In the Netherlands, Rutte's VVD are also 17 points ahead.

    Merkel's CDU/CSU are 20 points ahead in the latest poll but are outshone by Kurz's OVP who lead by 26 points.

    Even in Sweden, the governing Social Democrats are 13 points ahead as support for the Sweden Democrats has collapsed to 16%. Finally, the New Democrats are 20 points ahead in Greece.

    The exceptions seem to be Norway and Italy where the governing parties don't seem to have had any kind of boost from the covid-19 crisis.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885

    MattW said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:
    First it was for arrival by air.....that lasted a few hours before it became all forms of transport.

    Have they confirmed what quarantine is yet? Is it just dont go out but we wont check?
    No they've said the details will be announced by the end of the month I think.
    The end of the month. This is just embarrassing. I really don't understand the thinking behind this at all. If we had brought in mandatory quarantine in February for those coming back from the ski slopes or from Madrid we would almost certainly not be where we are.
    Guernsey introduced selective self quarantine in early March, then absolute quarantine for all arrivals from the 19th. It has now had two weeks without a new case and only 7 active cases remaining. It also has the UK equivalent of 35,000 Track n'Trace people already trained vs the 18,000 the UK is starting to recruit.

    Yes, its a lot easier in a small jurisdiction - but why the UK has persisted in this non-quarantine of arrivals strikes me as "too clever by half".
    So the number of people trained in Guernsey is .... er .... TWO, which could be a parkkeeper and his oppo.

    :-D

    Gently suggest that that is hardly a relevant comparison.
    35. Two weeks without any new cases. Only 7 active cases. We won’t be letting anyone in from the U.K. without self quarantine any time soon. And there does not appear to be much we can learn from the U.K. either.
    Small island communities do seem to be at something of an advantage in this situation. I'm sure I read somewhere that the Scottish Northern and Western Isles were in a not dissimilar position.
    Shetland was quite badly hit - possibly becausze it is a major through route for the oil industry (though I don't really know).
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    An interesting new song has just entered the charts on BBC4 Top of the Pops: Ride On Time by Black Box.

    And at Number 1 was the Jive Bunny 50s medley. We're pretty much as far away in time as the songs Jive used for their collage as that was in 1989.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    I see there's some hilarity on my comment of earlier.

    In the EU's words: the UK is too big and too close to have a deal like Canada's. In other words, they are worried about what we'd do with our powers to undercut their markets (an unlevel playing field).

    If we don't do a deal, and do start to undercut it and do rather well, then they've (a) lost any cliff-edge leverage and (b) will want better access to that successful market which, remember, still represents 20% of Europe's economy. That's a big and meaningful chunk.

    So we will get to a fair deal in the end but will have to go through a few years of WTO first to get there.

    This isn't a controversial point.

    It isn't a controversial point. But it's also why the LPF is the EU's absolute red line for any deal. We may go through WTO first and we will likely get to a deal eventually but it is very likely to include LPF conditions,
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,489
    @Morris_Dancer

    You've been keeping quiet about this all day..

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52677514
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    edited May 2020

    IshmaelZ said:

    If the UK aren't going to exempt the French, I presume the French won't reciprocate, so no holidays in the South of France for anybody thinking they were going to....Outraged of Oxford will soon be writing to the Guardian about this.

    Why would anyone want to go to the South of France for a holiday when the UK has Blackpool, Cleethorpes, and Southend-on-Sea?
    Ubergeeks like yours truly will point out that Blackpool has an extensive tram line, Cleethorpes rail station is almost directly on the beach, and that Southend has both a narrow-gauge pier railway and a clifftop funicular!
    My usual train for commuting was the Cleethorpes to Manchester Airport service.
    I last went to Cleethorpes in November, after doing the Saturday-only Retford to Barnetby train.
    Cleethorpes has seen better days but it isn't quite as depressing as Blackpool. I believe the Humberston 'Fitties' are now listed. I quite like the coastline to the S although it is a bit esoteric for some perhaps.

    All I need for a holiday is to be able to park a car in Scotland for a few days. It isn't hard to social distance on Bidein a'Choire Sheasgaich or Ben Alder, although that doesn't exactly benefit the economy much.

    Unfortunately May and early June is the time for that kind of thing and August is most definitely not...
    Why not August? Midges?
    Partly. They aren't much fun when camping wild, although if the weather is good you can stay high up and hope for a breeze.

    The other reason is rain. March - May is the driest period in western Scotland. August is quite a wet month (and is also wetter in England to some extent).

    I always wonder why English school holidays are in August, long after the best weather.

    Now would be a good time to move them permanently.
    The answer is it’s a hangover from the time when most workers and their families would go out into the countryside to do farm work. August is the peak time for harvesting all sorts of things including fruit, vegetables and wheat. So unskilled labourers would stop trying to get casual work (which was the majority of unskilled work before 1914) such as docking or loading in the towns and go into the countryside to get work on the farms. Often they would take their whole families with them. The majority of fruit in the Cotswolds, for example, was picked by urban workers down from Birmingham for the month.

    So schools were making a virtue out of a necessity in closing for the end of July, the whole of August and the beginning of September. And because it’s bloody difficult and fiendishly complicated to change something like that, it’s stayed that way.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    IshmaelZ said:

    If the UK aren't going to exempt the French, I presume the French won't reciprocate, so no holidays in the South of France for anybody thinking they were going to....Outraged of Oxford will soon be writing to the Guardian about this.

    Why would anyone want to go to the South of France for a holiday when the UK has Blackpool, Cleethorpes, and Southend-on-Sea?
    Ubergeeks like yours truly will point out that Blackpool has an extensive tram line, Cleethorpes rail station is almost directly on the beach, and that Southend has both a narrow-gauge pier railway and a clifftop funicular!
    My usual train for commuting was the Cleethorpes to Manchester Airport service.
    I last went to Cleethorpes in November, after doing the Saturday-only Retford to Barnetby train.
    Cleethorpes has seen better days but it isn't quite as depressing as Blackpool. I believe the Humberston 'Fitties' are now listed. I quite like the coastline to the S although it is a bit esoteric for some perhaps.

    All I need for a holiday is to be able to park a car in Scotland for a few days. It isn't hard to social distance on Bidein a'Choire Sheasgaich or Ben Alder, although that doesn't exactly benefit the economy much.

    Unfortunately May and early June is the time for that kind of thing and August is most definitely not...
    Why not August? Midges?
    Partly. They aren't much fun when camping wild, although if the weather is good you can stay high up and hope for a breeze.

    The other reason is rain. March - May is the driest period in western Scotland. August is quite a wet month (and is also wetter in England to some extent).

    I always wonder why English school holidays are in August, long after the best weather.

    Now would be a good time to move them permanently.



    Um. Show me the statistics that say August is “long after the best weather”. In fact, the warmest fortnight of the year, on average, is the first fortnight of August.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    Ave_it said:

    I wasn't planning to go to Scotland this year.

    Or next year either!

    You're missing out, it's wonderful.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    "Sweden’s Coronavirus Strategy Will Soon Be the World’s
    Herd Immunity Is the Only Realistic Option—the Question Is How to Get There Safely
    By Nils Karlson, Charlotta Stern, and Daniel B. Klein"

    https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/sweden/2020-05-12/swedens-coronavirus-strategy-will-soon-be-worlds
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675
    edited May 2020

    kyf_100 said:

    Do we count this under a journey for work? As i don't think going on a booze cruise to France is currently allowed under the eased lockdown restrictions.

    https://twitter.com/SimonJonesNews/status/1261206755918430208?s=19

    It's odd, isn't it. We think of our money as our own, but if you had 100k in your account and you went into the bank tomorrow to get it they wouldn't let you have it.

    And if you did manage to get hold of it, if you tried to take it out of the country you'd be locked up.

    And people say Bitcoin is a scam...
    Actually that's not true, so long as you give enough notice (usually 2 working days) you can withdraw £90k in cash.

    So long as you have source of funds documentation you'll be fine.

    The bigger issue is trying to put £90k cash into a bank account.
    What source of funds documentation do you need? Salary slips going back years, or a chit from a house sale?

    I presume a bank statement and ID isn't enough.

    Do they ask you what you intend to do with it and where you intend to store it?
    Not always.

    Salary slips, share sale certification, letter from a solicitor/land registry documentation for a sale of property, usually do the trick.

    It used to be an issue a lot for weddings, where lots of things (florists and caterers for example) needed paying cash in hand or to pay builders.

    My favourite was a guy who won £500k on the lottery, but prior to that his credit score was so bad I think he had a negative credit score, and he only had a saving account with a major UK bank and couldn't get a current account anywhere, but paid for everything via cash or on a top up debit card.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    @Morris_Dancer

    You've been keeping quiet about this all day..

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52677514

    Those officers are going to be in the deepest of deep shit for breaking social distancing.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    If the UK aren't going to exempt the French, I presume the French won't reciprocate, so no holidays in the South of France for anybody thinking they were going to....Outraged of Oxford will soon be writing to the Guardian about this.

    Why would anyone want to go to the South of France for a holiday when the UK has Blackpool, Cleethorpes, and Southend-on-Sea?
    Ubergeeks like yours truly will point out that Blackpool has an extensive tram line, Cleethorpes rail station is almost directly on the beach, and that Southend has both a narrow-gauge pier railway and a clifftop funicular!
    My usual train for commuting was the Cleethorpes to Manchester Airport service.
    I last went to Cleethorpes in November, after doing the Saturday-only Retford to Barnetby train.
    Cleethorpes has seen better days but it isn't quite as depressing as Blackpool. I believe the Humberston 'Fitties' are now listed. I quite like the coastline to the S although it is a bit esoteric for some perhaps.

    All I need for a holiday is to be able to park a car in Scotland for a few days. It isn't hard to social distance on Bidein a'Choire Sheasgaich or Ben Alder, although that doesn't exactly benefit the economy much.

    Unfortunately May and early June is the time for that kind of thing and August is most definitely not...
    Why not August? Midges?
    Partly. They aren't much fun when camping wild, although if the weather is good you can stay high up and hope for a breeze.

    The other reason is rain. March - May is the driest period in western Scotland. August is quite a wet month (and is also wetter in England to some extent).

    I always wonder why English school holidays are in August, long after the best weather.

    Now would be a good time to move them permanently.

    May is definitely the best month in Devon.

    I am working on the Munros North of the Great Glen - up to about 80 so far. Not sure there will be an opportunity to add to that this year.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,489
    FF43 said:

    I see there's some hilarity on my comment of earlier.

    In the EU's words: the UK is too big and too close to have a deal like Canada's. In other words, they are worried about what we'd do with our powers to undercut their markets (an unlevel playing field).

    If we don't do a deal, and do start to undercut it and do rather well, then they've (a) lost any cliff-edge leverage and (b) will want better access to that successful market which, remember, still represents 20% of Europe's economy. That's a big and meaningful chunk.

    So we will get to a fair deal in the end but will have to go through a few years of WTO first to get there.

    This isn't a controversial point.

    It isn't a controversial point. But it's also why the LPF is the EU's absolute red line for any deal. We may go through WTO first and we will likely get to a deal eventually but it is very likely to include LPF conditions,
    I think the UK might eventually even accept some LPF conditions.

    But, not these conditions. Not now. And it would need to involve a level of UK-European co-governance.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    An interesting new song has just entered the charts on BBC4 Top of the Pops: Ride On Time by Black Box.

    Blinding track.

    “You’re such a hot temptation / You just walk right in”
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    If the UK aren't going to exempt the French, I presume the French won't reciprocate, so no holidays in the South of France for anybody thinking they were going to....Outraged of Oxford will soon be writing to the Guardian about this.

    Why would anyone want to go to the South of France for a holiday when the UK has Blackpool, Cleethorpes, and Southend-on-Sea?
    Ubergeeks like yours truly will point out that Blackpool has an extensive tram line, Cleethorpes rail station is almost directly on the beach, and that Southend has both a narrow-gauge pier railway and a clifftop funicular!
    My usual train for commuting was the Cleethorpes to Manchester Airport service.
    I last went to Cleethorpes in November, after doing the Saturday-only Retford to Barnetby train.
    Cleethorpes has seen better days but it isn't quite as depressing as Blackpool. I believe the Humberston 'Fitties' are now listed. I quite like the coastline to the S although it is a bit esoteric for some perhaps.

    All I need for a holiday is to be able to park a car in Scotland for a few days. It isn't hard to social distance on Bidein a'Choire Sheasgaich or Ben Alder, although that doesn't exactly benefit the economy much.

    Unfortunately May and early June is the time for that kind of thing and August is most definitely not...
    Why not August? Midges?
    Partly. They aren't much fun when camping wild, although if the weather is good you can stay high up and hope for a breeze.

    The other reason is rain. March - May is the driest period in western Scotland. August is quite a wet month (and is also wetter in England to some extent).

    I always wonder why English school holidays are in August, long after the best weather.

    Now would be a good time to move them permanently.

    May is definitely the best month in Devon.

    I am working on the Munros North of the Great Glen - up to about 80 so far. Not sure there will be an opportunity to add to that this year.
    June in Aberystwyth is the most glorious month. Usually perfect weather and practically deserted as all the students have gone and none of the tourists have arrived.

    But you have to live there year round to get the benefit. As it happens, I did because I had a job there. Most students never know what they missed.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675
    ydoethur said:

    @Morris_Dancer

    You've been keeping quiet about this all day..

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52677514

    Those officers are going to be in the deepest of deep shit for breaking social distancing.
    They'll be fine, they'll just say they mistook him for a sheep and everyone will understand.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    edited May 2020

    ydoethur said:

    @Morris_Dancer

    You've been keeping quiet about this all day..

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52677514

    Those officers are going to be in the deepest of deep shit for breaking social distancing.
    They'll be fine, they'll just say they mistook him for a sheep and everyone will understand.
    Come off it TSE. I know the Welsh sheep are infamous for plotting world domination, but they would never carry swords.

    Edit - anyway, it’s the Dutch that have talked about exemptions for that kind of thing.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,708

    FF43 said:

    I see there's some hilarity on my comment of earlier.

    In the EU's words: the UK is too big and too close to have a deal like Canada's. In other words, they are worried about what we'd do with our powers to undercut their markets (an unlevel playing field).

    If we don't do a deal, and do start to undercut it and do rather well, then they've (a) lost any cliff-edge leverage and (b) will want better access to that successful market which, remember, still represents 20% of Europe's economy. That's a big and meaningful chunk.

    So we will get to a fair deal in the end but will have to go through a few years of WTO first to get there.

    This isn't a controversial point.

    It isn't a controversial point. But it's also why the LPF is the EU's absolute red line for any deal. We may go through WTO first and we will likely get to a deal eventually but it is very likely to include LPF conditions,
    I think the UK might eventually even accept some LPF conditions.

    But, not these conditions. Not now. And it would need to involve a level of UK-European co-governance.
    Ah, you mean rejoining the political institutions?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    @Morris_Dancer

    You've been keeping quiet about this all day..

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52677514

    Those officers are going to be in the deepest of deep shit for breaking social distancing.
    They'll be fine, they'll just say they mistook him for a sheep and everyone will understand.
    Come off it TSE. I know the Welsh sheep are infamous for plotting world domination, but they would never carry swords.

    Edit - anyway, it’s the Dutch that have talked about exemptions for that kind of thing.
    Is it just me, or does the guy with the sword look like the education secretary?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    Andy_JS said:

    "Sweden’s Coronavirus Strategy Will Soon Be the World’s
    Herd Immunity Is the Only Realistic Option—the Question Is How to Get There Safely
    By Nils Karlson, Charlotta Stern, and Daniel B. Klein"

    https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/sweden/2020-05-12/swedens-coronavirus-strategy-will-soon-be-worlds

    Of course, the argument hinges on the assumption that infection confers lasting immunity. They take that as read. It would be interesting to know why. They are a political scientist, a sociologist and an economist.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,217

    FF43 said:

    I see there's some hilarity on my comment of earlier.

    In the EU's words: the UK is too big and too close to have a deal like Canada's. In other words, they are worried about what we'd do with our powers to undercut their markets (an unlevel playing field).

    If we don't do a deal, and do start to undercut it and do rather well, then they've (a) lost any cliff-edge leverage and (b) will want better access to that successful market which, remember, still represents 20% of Europe's economy. That's a big and meaningful chunk.

    So we will get to a fair deal in the end but will have to go through a few years of WTO first to get there.

    This isn't a controversial point.

    It isn't a controversial point. But it's also why the LPF is the EU's absolute red line for any deal. We may go through WTO first and we will likely get to a deal eventually but it is very likely to include LPF conditions,
    I think the UK might eventually even accept some LPF conditions.

    But, not these conditions. Not now. And it would need to involve a level of UK-European co-governance.
    Almost all FTAs contain some LPF conditions. NAFTA became USMCA at least partly because the US didn't feel that NAFTA contained enough LPF agreements. (Bizarrely, the new USMCA now contains LPF elements about the treatment of LBGT workers.)

    To take the Australia-US trade deal as an example, there are LPF elements on:

    - environmental standards
    - intellectual property
    - labour
    - dumping and illegal subsidies
    - the use of product standards
    etc.

    I have no doubt that the current LPF standards will be unacceptable. But we will also find very few takers for trade deals that do not contain LPF provisions. And I would also bet that we will be insisting on LPF provisions when we're in negotiations with Mercosur.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    FF43 said:

    I see there's some hilarity on my comment of earlier.

    In the EU's words: the UK is too big and too close to have a deal like Canada's. In other words, they are worried about what we'd do with our powers to undercut their markets (an unlevel playing field).

    If we don't do a deal, and do start to undercut it and do rather well, then they've (a) lost any cliff-edge leverage and (b) will want better access to that successful market which, remember, still represents 20% of Europe's economy. That's a big and meaningful chunk.

    So we will get to a fair deal in the end but will have to go through a few years of WTO first to get there.

    This isn't a controversial point.

    It isn't a controversial point. But it's also why the LPF is the EU's absolute red line for any deal. We may go through WTO first and we will likely get to a deal eventually but it is very likely to include LPF conditions,
    I think the UK might eventually even accept some LPF conditions.

    But, not these conditions. Not now. And it would need to involve a level of UK-European co-governance.
    Some LPF conditions are entirely reasonable.

    EG the LPF conditions that the EU already agreed to in CETA. They're reasonable. These are not.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675
    edited May 2020
    tlg86 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    @Morris_Dancer

    You've been keeping quiet about this all day..

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52677514

    Those officers are going to be in the deepest of deep shit for breaking social distancing.
    They'll be fine, they'll just say they mistook him for a sheep and everyone will understand.
    Come off it TSE. I know the Welsh sheep are infamous for plotting world domination, but they would never carry swords.

    Edit - anyway, it’s the Dutch that have talked about exemptions for that kind of thing.
    Is it just me, or does the guy with the sword look like the education secretary?
    Now that you mention it, he does look like the disgraced national security risk Gavin Williamson.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    MaxPB said:

    It really does look like the UK epicenter is now care homes, I think community transmission is extremely low. Anecdotally messages coming from doctors in the family WhatsApp is of virtually no new virus admissions per day in their London trusts. That is being reflected in the London hospital death rate.

    Surely we need to have lockdown carehomes at the L5 measures and L3 for the wider community.

    Hmm.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/covid-19-infection-rate-goes-up-and-could-be-as-high-as-r1_uk_5ebeab48c5b67885adae7fe6?utm_hp_ref=uk-politics&?ncid=newsltukhpmgpols
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/15/keir-starmer-needs-win-scotland-not-pmqs-have-chance-election/

    The threat to Starmer’s – and to any successor’s – dreams of office comes from failing to win back Scotland. So long as Scots insist on returning regiments of nationalist MPs to Westminster, Starmer will be forced at the next election to explain whether he will contemplate coming to some sort of post-election arrangement whereby the SNP agree to maintain a minority Labour government in office. It’s not a question on which he can prevaricate: everyone watching the TV news will know that a simple yes or no answer is within his grasp. If the answer is no, how will he form a government? If it’s yes, what will he give the SNP in return?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    MaxPB said:

    It really does look like the UK epicenter is now care homes, I think community transmission is extremely low. Anecdotally messages coming from doctors in the family WhatsApp is of virtually no new virus admissions per day in their London trusts. That is being reflected in the London hospital death rate.

    Surely we need to have lockdown carehomes at the L5 measures and L3 for the wider community.

    Hmm.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/covid-19-infection-rate-goes-up-and-could-be-as-high-as-r1_uk_5ebeab48c5b67885adae7fe6?utm_hp_ref=uk-politics&?ncid=newsltukhpmgpols
    Both can be true.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Chris said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Sweden’s Coronavirus Strategy Will Soon Be the World’s
    Herd Immunity Is the Only Realistic Option—the Question Is How to Get There Safely
    By Nils Karlson, Charlotta Stern, and Daniel B. Klein"

    https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/sweden/2020-05-12/swedens-coronavirus-strategy-will-soon-be-worlds

    Of course, the argument hinges on the assumption that infection confers lasting immunity. They take that as read. It would be interesting to know why. They are a political scientist, a sociologist and an economist.
    The general view appears to be that infection confers fairly long immunity, perhaps up to five years. There seems to be little evidence to the contrary as far as I can see?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    One of the world's largest cigarette companies, British American Tobacco (BAT), says it is ready to begin human trials on a tobacco-based coronavirus vaccine.

    In a statement, the firm said it was using proteins from tobacco leaves, which have generated a positive immune response in pre-clinical trials.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,878
    dixiedean said:

    Yorkcity said:

    HYUFD said:

    If the UK aren't going to exempt the French, I presume the French won't reciprocate, so no holidays in the South of France for anybody thinking they were going to....Outraged of Oxford will soon be writing to the Guardian about this.

    Never mind, there is always Blackpool or Southend
    Imagine thinking that Blackpool or Southend are good places to go on holiday. :D Next you’ll be suggesting Whitley Bay!
    My sister had a flat in Whitley Bay in the late fifties
    I stayed there , whilst working for Portacabin from York in the early 80s.
    We were fitting out temporary office blocks at Swanhunters shipyard Wallsend, just after the falkland war.
    I was sat in a pub one Tuesday night , when the window was smashed .
    A bit of a shock compared to a midweek night out in York.
    Whitley Bay is pretty hip these days. It is a desirable residence for Geordie yuppies.
    If such a thing exists. Or ever did.
    Nice Metro station too.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,217
    Chris said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Sweden’s Coronavirus Strategy Will Soon Be the World’s
    Herd Immunity Is the Only Realistic Option—the Question Is How to Get There Safely
    By Nils Karlson, Charlotta Stern, and Daniel B. Klein"

    https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/sweden/2020-05-12/swedens-coronavirus-strategy-will-soon-be-worlds

    Of course, the argument hinges on the assumption that infection confers lasting immunity. They take that as read. It would be interesting to know why. They are a political scientist, a sociologist and an economist.
    All the evidence is that there is strong T cell response to CV-19.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    kinabalu said:

    BoJo was NOT seventeen and a half stone (!) before the virus He's only 5 ft 8 inches tall. If he had weighed that much he would have looked like Mr Creosote.

    Is he spinning yet another self-serving yarn?

    17 and a half stone isn't anywhere near as much as that!

    Besides he's quite athletic as well as being on the heavy side. Remember that muscle is heavier by volume than fat so two people of the same volume can weigh quite different amounts.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited May 2020

    MaxPB said:

    It really does look like the UK epicenter is now care homes, I think community transmission is extremely low. Anecdotally messages coming from doctors in the family WhatsApp is of virtually no new virus admissions per day in their London trusts. That is being reflected in the London hospital death rate.

    Surely we need to have lockdown carehomes at the L5 measures and L3 for the wider community.

    Hmm.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/covid-19-infection-rate-goes-up-and-could-be-as-high-as-r1_uk_5ebeab48c5b67885adae7fe6?utm_hp_ref=uk-politics&?ncid=newsltukhpmgpols
    Simpsons paradox....BBC kinda sorta tried to explain it. R can be up while what Max says can be absolutely true, in fact is most likely.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    Personally I am delighted that we're standing up to the EU in the negotiations. The fact that there is conflict rather than automatic capitulation seems to be profoundly upsetting to some PBers. Oh well.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,217

    FF43 said:

    I see there's some hilarity on my comment of earlier.

    In the EU's words: the UK is too big and too close to have a deal like Canada's. In other words, they are worried about what we'd do with our powers to undercut their markets (an unlevel playing field).

    If we don't do a deal, and do start to undercut it and do rather well, then they've (a) lost any cliff-edge leverage and (b) will want better access to that successful market which, remember, still represents 20% of Europe's economy. That's a big and meaningful chunk.

    So we will get to a fair deal in the end but will have to go through a few years of WTO first to get there.

    This isn't a controversial point.

    It isn't a controversial point. But it's also why the LPF is the EU's absolute red line for any deal. We may go through WTO first and we will likely get to a deal eventually but it is very likely to include LPF conditions,
    I think the UK might eventually even accept some LPF conditions.

    But, not these conditions. Not now. And it would need to involve a level of UK-European co-governance.
    Some LPF conditions are entirely reasonable.

    EG the LPF conditions that the EU already agreed to in CETA. They're reasonable. These are not.
    There need to be more LPF agreements than CETA with regards to transfer pricing, otherwise both us and the EU will find our faces ripped off by tax dodging multinationals. That's not so much of an issue with Canada, as it's much further away and there is less of a tax arbitrage on physical goods issue.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    TGOHF666 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/15/keir-starmer-needs-win-scotland-not-pmqs-have-chance-election/

    The threat to Starmer’s – and to any successor’s – dreams of office comes from failing to win back Scotland. So long as Scots insist on returning regiments of nationalist MPs to Westminster, Starmer will be forced at the next election to explain whether he will contemplate coming to some sort of post-election arrangement whereby the SNP agree to maintain a minority Labour government in office. It’s not a question on which he can prevaricate: everyone watching the TV news will know that a simple yes or no answer is within his grasp. If the answer is no, how will he form a government? If it’s yes, what will he give the SNP in return?

    Striking an agreement under such circumstances is just the start of any prospective Labour PM's problems. Because the SNP will no doubt insist on Indyref2 (or Indyref3, if they've had and lost the second one in the meantime) and what happens if they win?

    It'd be fascinating watching Starmer trying to justify negotiating independence with Scotland whilst simultaneously being kept in Government in London only by the votes of Scottish MPs.

    Indeed, it's arguably in the long-term interests of English Labour as well as the English Tories for Scotland to go, given that Scottish Labour isn't coming back and independence would resolve this question permanently.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885

    TGOHF666 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/15/keir-starmer-needs-win-scotland-not-pmqs-have-chance-election/

    The threat to Starmer’s – and to any successor’s – dreams of office comes from failing to win back Scotland. So long as Scots insist on returning regiments of nationalist MPs to Westminster, Starmer will be forced at the next election to explain whether he will contemplate coming to some sort of post-election arrangement whereby the SNP agree to maintain a minority Labour government in office. It’s not a question on which he can prevaricate: everyone watching the TV news will know that a simple yes or no answer is within his grasp. If the answer is no, how will he form a government? If it’s yes, what will he give the SNP in return?

    Striking an agreement under such circumstances is just the start of any prospective Labour PM's problems. Because the SNP will no doubt insist on Indyref2 (or Indyref3, if they've had and lost the second one in the meantime) and what happens if they win?

    It'd be fascinating watching Starmer trying to justify negotiating independence with Scotland whilst simultaneously being kept in Government in London only by the votes of Scottish MPs.

    Indeed, it's arguably in the long-term interests of English Labour as well as the English Tories for Scotland to go, given that Scottish Labour isn't coming back and independence would resolve this question permanently.
    I was just thinking, at least Mr Corbyn was offering sometrhing different from the SNP. But why bother with Mr SKS when you have a home-grown lawyer in charge, and one not not beholden to petty English local considerations?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205

    One of the world's largest cigarette companies, British American Tobacco (BAT), says it is ready to begin human trials on a tobacco-based coronavirus vaccine.

    In a statement, the firm said it was using proteins from tobacco leaves, which have generated a positive immune response in pre-clinical trials.

    Imagine if smoking 40 a day conferred immunity. Christ !
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    MaxPB said:

    It really does look like the UK epicenter is now care homes, I think community transmission is extremely low. Anecdotally messages coming from doctors in the family WhatsApp is of virtually no new virus admissions per day in their London trusts. That is being reflected in the London hospital death rate.

    Surely we need to have lockdown carehomes at the L5 measures and L3 for the wider community.

    Hmm.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/covid-19-infection-rate-goes-up-and-could-be-as-high-as-r1_uk_5ebeab48c5b67885adae7fe6?utm_hp_ref=uk-politics&?ncid=newsltukhpmgpols
    Simpsons paradox....BBC kinda sorta tried to explain it. R can be up while what Max says can be absolutely true, in fact is most likely.
    It is most likely but of course care home staff and their family members are members of 'the wider community'.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    Sometimes you look at some people, scratch your head and think what the fuck is wrong with them?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    She is just wrong.

    Maybe HYUFD will be along to defend her as no one else will
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    edited May 2020
    class="Quote" rel="TheScreamingEagles">Horrible horrible woman.

    She'd get it.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Ridiculous decision. I've defended Patel in the past but not now, not if this is right. Don't know what on earth she's thinking if this report is right.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    Pulpstar said:

    One of the world's largest cigarette companies, British American Tobacco (BAT), says it is ready to begin human trials on a tobacco-based coronavirus vaccine.

    In a statement, the firm said it was using proteins from tobacco leaves, which have generated a positive immune response in pre-clinical trials.

    Imagine if smoking 40 a day conferred immunity. Christ !
    Something tells me it is a piece of opportunistic advertising that has just luckily landed in their path.....
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Much of Essex is absolutely lovely.

    Epping Forest
    Dedham Vale
    The Naze Coast

    It’s only ignoramuses like @TheScreamingEagles who think otherwise
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    One of the world's largest cigarette companies, British American Tobacco (BAT), says it is ready to begin human trials on a tobacco-based coronavirus vaccine.

    In a statement, the firm said it was using proteins from tobacco leaves, which have generated a positive immune response in pre-clinical trials.

    I'm hoping this one is the winner, just for the lols.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    Carnyx said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/15/keir-starmer-needs-win-scotland-not-pmqs-have-chance-election/

    The threat to Starmer’s – and to any successor’s – dreams of office comes from failing to win back Scotland. So long as Scots insist on returning regiments of nationalist MPs to Westminster, Starmer will be forced at the next election to explain whether he will contemplate coming to some sort of post-election arrangement whereby the SNP agree to maintain a minority Labour government in office. It’s not a question on which he can prevaricate: everyone watching the TV news will know that a simple yes or no answer is within his grasp. If the answer is no, how will he form a government? If it’s yes, what will he give the SNP in return?

    Striking an agreement under such circumstances is just the start of any prospective Labour PM's problems. Because the SNP will no doubt insist on Indyref2 (or Indyref3, if they've had and lost the second one in the meantime) and what happens if they win?

    It'd be fascinating watching Starmer trying to justify negotiating independence with Scotland whilst simultaneously being kept in Government in London only by the votes of Scottish MPs.

    Indeed, it's arguably in the long-term interests of English Labour as well as the English Tories for Scotland to go, given that Scottish Labour isn't coming back and independence would resolve this question permanently.
    I was just thinking, at least Mr Corbyn was offering sometrhing different from the SNP. But why bother with Mr SKS when you have a home-grown lawyer in charge, and one not not beholden to petty English local considerations?
    if the last 4 years have taught us anything it is that it's impossible for English considerations (local or otherwise) to be petty. We should be duly grateful that we get sooked into them.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119

    Much of Essex is absolutely lovely.

    Epping Forest
    Dedham Vale
    The Naze Coast

    It’s only ignoramuses like @TheScreamingEagles who think otherwise

    Its like France, beautiful country shame its full of French people (i am joking).
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    TGOHF666 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/15/keir-starmer-needs-win-scotland-not-pmqs-have-chance-election/

    The threat to Starmer’s – and to any successor’s – dreams of office comes from failing to win back Scotland. So long as Scots insist on returning regiments of nationalist MPs to Westminster, Starmer will be forced at the next election to explain whether he will contemplate coming to some sort of post-election arrangement whereby the SNP agree to maintain a minority Labour government in office. It’s not a question on which he can prevaricate: everyone watching the TV news will know that a simple yes or no answer is within his grasp. If the answer is no, how will he form a government? If it’s yes, what will he give the SNP in return?

    A Sindy referendum after 5 years.Nobody thinks they can be denied another try forever, and not that many people really care. Evem quite a few Tories fancy getting rid of the anti-Tory Scots. It's not as though many people expect them to win, with oil a busted flush.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    BT emailed me to announce live coverage of all this weekends Bundesliga games

    It will be interesting to see how surreal it is and also if fans congregate around the grounds despite appeals not to

    And live football of sorts back on tv

    I assume leagues across Europe will be watching with great interest, not the football but the reactions and consequences
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    Much of Essex is absolutely lovely.

    Epping Forest
    Dedham Vale
    The Naze Coast

    It’s only ignoramuses like @TheScreamingEagles who think otherwise

    I'd love to visit Nazeing, but I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to stop laughing...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675

    Much of Essex is absolutely lovely.

    Epping Forest
    Dedham Vale
    The Naze Coast

    It’s only ignoramuses like @TheScreamingEagles who think otherwise

    Its like France, beautiful country shame its full of French people (i am joking).
    I've seen three episodes of TOWIE, you can understand my wariness about Essex, about 30 years ago I spent a lovely weekend in Southend, I still have a momento.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    TGOHF666 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/15/keir-starmer-needs-win-scotland-not-pmqs-have-chance-election/

    The threat to Starmer’s – and to any successor’s – dreams of office comes from failing to win back Scotland. So long as Scots insist on returning regiments of nationalist MPs to Westminster, Starmer will be forced at the next election to explain whether he will contemplate coming to some sort of post-election arrangement whereby the SNP agree to maintain a minority Labour government in office. It’s not a question on which he can prevaricate: everyone watching the TV news will know that a simple yes or no answer is within his grasp. If the answer is no, how will he form a government? If it’s yes, what will he give the SNP in return?

    A Sindy referendum after 5 years.Nobody thinks they can be denied another try forever, and not that many people really care. Evem quite a few Tories fancy getting rid of the anti-Tory Scots. It's not as though many people expect them to win, with oil a busted flush.
    The Nats will lose again. Heart of stone etc.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    kinabalu said:

    BoJo was NOT seventeen and a half stone (!) before the virus He's only 5 ft 8 inches tall. If he had weighed that much he would have looked like Mr Creosote.

    Is he spinning yet another self-serving yarn?

    Agreed. No way he/is was that heavy. He’s very portly but that’s absurd.

    Having met Bozza, I’d put him as 5-8 and about 14-7.

    Fat, certainly.

    Creosote, nope.
    I can't see any possible motive for lying about it though.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    tyson said:

    Sometimes you look at some people, scratch your head and think what the fuck is wrong with them?
    We are on the same page on this one Tyson.

    Ashamed of her and anyone in my party who tries to defend her
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    stodge said:

    Just a word on the recent US State polls.

    In New Jersey, Clinton beat Trump by 14 in 2016 but Biden leads by 23. In Ohio, Trump won by 8 but is now up by only 3.

    In Texas, Trump won by 9 and is now up by 6 while in North Carolina Trump won by four and now leads by three.

    In Florida Trump won by one last time and now trails by six so we can deduce there's a 2.5-3% swing away from Trump out there.

    Better news from California where Trump lost by 30 and is still only 30 behind Biden so he's doing all right.

    Biden must be odds on to win the popular vote. The biased Electoral College is another matter.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    Much of Essex is absolutely lovely.

    Epping Forest
    Dedham Vale
    The Naze Coast

    It’s only ignoramuses like @TheScreamingEagles who think otherwise

    The area around Bishop's Stortford is fantastic.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119

    BT emailed me to announce live coverage of all this weekends Bundesliga games

    It will be interesting to see how surreal it is and also if fans congregate around the grounds despite appeals not to

    And live football of sorts back on tv

    I assume leagues across Europe will be watching with great interest, not the football but the reactions and consequences

    Watching the human cock fighting last weekend, sport with no crowd is just weird.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Much of Essex is absolutely lovely.

    Epping Forest
    Dedham Vale
    The Naze Coast

    It’s only ignoramuses like @TheScreamingEagles who think otherwise

    Its like France, beautiful country shame its full of French people (i am joking).
    Essex is full of French people?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    OllyT said:

    I can't see any possible motive for lying about it though.

    It's his natural state

    Lie about anything, everything, always...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    ydoethur said:

    Much of Essex is absolutely lovely.

    Epping Forest
    Dedham Vale
    The Naze Coast

    It’s only ignoramuses like @TheScreamingEagles who think otherwise

    Its like France, beautiful country shame its full of French people (i am joking).
    Essex is full of French people?
    I dont know about Essex, but London is.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    edited May 2020

    BT emailed me to announce live coverage of all this weekends Bundesliga games

    It will be interesting to see how surreal it is and also if fans congregate around the grounds despite appeals not to

    And live football of sorts back on tv

    I assume leagues across Europe will be watching with great interest, not the football but the reactions and consequences

    Watching the human cock fighting last weekend, sport with no crowd is just weird.
    You don't strike me as a UFC aficionado.

    No pun intended.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482

    Much of Essex is absolutely lovely.

    Epping Forest
    Dedham Vale
    The Naze Coast

    It’s only ignoramuses like @TheScreamingEagles who think otherwise

    Its like France, beautiful country shame its full of French people (i am joking).
    I am glad you owned up to a rather crude and offensive joke. It's not that beautiful.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/15/keir-starmer-needs-win-scotland-not-pmqs-have-chance-election/

    The threat to Starmer’s – and to any successor’s – dreams of office comes from failing to win back Scotland. So long as Scots insist on returning regiments of nationalist MPs to Westminster, Starmer will be forced at the next election to explain whether he will contemplate coming to some sort of post-election arrangement whereby the SNP agree to maintain a minority Labour government in office. It’s not a question on which he can prevaricate: everyone watching the TV news will know that a simple yes or no answer is within his grasp. If the answer is no, how will he form a government? If it’s yes, what will he give the SNP in return?

    A Sindy referendum after 5 years.Nobody thinks they can be denied another try forever, and not that many people really care. Evem quite a few Tories fancy getting rid of the anti-Tory Scots. It's not as though many people expect them to win, with oil a busted flush.
    The Nats will lose again. Heart of stone etc.
    It does us down South no good though if they vote to stay in again, and then keep on electing an endless series of secessionist Governments. It isn't unreasonable for us to want some stability for a change, and the only way to get it is if the Scottish electorate either votes to go at long last or stops voting for the SNP. And it doesn't look very much like they're going to do the second thing, which leaves us reliant on the first.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    OllyT said:

    kinabalu said:

    BoJo was NOT seventeen and a half stone (!) before the virus He's only 5 ft 8 inches tall. If he had weighed that much he would have looked like Mr Creosote.

    Is he spinning yet another self-serving yarn?

    Agreed. No way he/is was that heavy. He’s very portly but that’s absurd.

    Having met Bozza, I’d put him as 5-8 and about 14-7.

    Fat, certainly.

    Creosote, nope.
    I can't see any possible motive for lying about it though.
    I doubt he is. It seems believable to me.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/15/keir-starmer-needs-win-scotland-not-pmqs-have-chance-election/

    The threat to Starmer’s – and to any successor’s – dreams of office comes from failing to win back Scotland. So long as Scots insist on returning regiments of nationalist MPs to Westminster, Starmer will be forced at the next election to explain whether he will contemplate coming to some sort of post-election arrangement whereby the SNP agree to maintain a minority Labour government in office. It’s not a question on which he can prevaricate: everyone watching the TV news will know that a simple yes or no answer is within his grasp. If the answer is no, how will he form a government? If it’s yes, what will he give the SNP in return?

    A Sindy referendum after 5 years.Nobody thinks they can be denied another try forever, and not that many people really care. Evem quite a few Tories fancy getting rid of the anti-Tory Scots. It's not as though many people expect them to win, with oil a busted flush.
    The Nats will lose again. Heart of stone etc.
    But since you lot have the heart of a chicken, you'll put every obstacle possible in the way of a referendum you think you'll win. Odd.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    Much of Essex is absolutely lovely.

    Epping Forest
    Dedham Vale
    The Naze Coast

    It’s only ignoramuses like @TheScreamingEagles who think otherwise

    Its like France, beautiful country shame its full of French people (i am joking).
    I am glad you owned up to a rather crude and offensive joke. It's not that beautiful.
    As I said, have you been to, say, Dunmow, Hatfield Heath, etc.

    You wouldn't think you were in Essex. Though it is quite flat.
This discussion has been closed.