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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Thinking the Unthinkable – how’s this going to be paid for?

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  • SussexJamesSussexJames Posts: 86
    TGOHF666 said:

    Sure - but dig out 2 levels of basement, add an extension and spend thousands on renovations and your house is worth not a penny more in current tax world.

    You then pay the same as your neighbour who hasn't redecorated or improved and has an asset worth half yours.

    If you improve your property with an extension outwardsw, upwards or downwards, you'll get assessed to see if it needs rebanding for council tax. So it will be worth a penny - or a bit - more.
    Now, if you're advocating that the top council tax band is too restricted, that's another discussion.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    It seems to me from the discussion on this thread that there's really very little we can do about the predicament we are in.

    We have been engaged on is a sort of socialism on steroids.

    A vast subsidy of the least productive part of our society on the one hand. and an agressive, determined and sustained throttling of the most productive part on the other.

    Why would anybody be surprised a the result? complete penury, extreme misery and possible social and economic breakdown.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,400
    Mr. Topping, it's a sinister trend.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,505

    If you improve your property with an extension outwardsw, upwards or downwards, you'll get assessed to see if it needs rebanding for council tax. So it will be worth a penny - or a bit - more.
    Now, if you're advocating that the top council tax band is too restricted, that's another discussion.
    BiB - Happy to be corrected on this, but I don't think you pay. When you sell the property, then it gets reassessed for CT. At least that's how I understand the system.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,141
    RobD said:

    Are you claiming it isn't an epidemic?
    I thought he was being funny by not using ‘pandemic’ but I guess if he’s just referring to the U.K. it correct.

    Back on the starting blocks for you Herr Trigger!
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,960
    RobD said:

    Question 1 - are you suggesting they are making the numbers up? I think you'll need evidence to support this. As with most deadlines, the work is finished immediately prior to the deadline. That indicates that effort was well managed.
    "Managed" being the key word. Or "manipulated". But no matter. It gives the media a story.....
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,554
    Cyclefree said:

    The poor may pay less VAT because more of what they spend money on is exempt from it. But when they do it is highly regressive because that is the nature of any sales tax.

    The argument is that everyone should contribute because it avoids (a) the free rider problem; and (b) it makes for better accountability. But it is the same argument - in reverse - as that made by some rich people: I don’t use these services so why should I pay for them. I don’t have much truck with that. But if universality is important then there is an argument that it should apply to all citizens. That is the argument behind having universal welfare benefits after all. If these are available to all, people will be more willing to pay for them. If they are only available to a few then those who pay may be less willing to pay for them. This problem is already seen in the US and could come here if we’re not careful.
    I too think that everyone should pay income tax, albeit at a nominal level at the lower end. If you are not paying anything at all you are excluded from the national conversation about "taxpayers money". This does not help to foster togetherness.

    Also agree on the great benefits of universality. Not sure if it's affordable in all cases however.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,575

    If you improve your property with an extension outwardsw, upwards or downwards, you'll get assessed to see if it needs rebanding for council tax. So it will be worth a penny - or a bit - more.
    Now, if you're advocating that the top council tax band is too restricted, that's another discussion.
    The rebanding won't however occur until the house is sold.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    TOPPING said:

    Amazing so many left handers.
    Do people generally use their dominant hand? (or mainly their dominant hand). Instinctively I assume so, but then again, I've only ever fired an air pistol...
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    TOPPING said:

    Are you able to exercise?
    And if so, do you use a wheel, or an exercise ball?
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    If you improve your property with an extension outwardsw, upwards or downwards, you'll get assessed to see if it needs rebanding for council tax. So it will be worth a penny - or a bit - more.
    Now, if you're advocating that the top council tax band is too restricted, that's another discussion.
    LOL - unless you knock a house down to rebuild or subdivide your property hasn't been rebanded since 1991. Just the 30 years ago..
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,554
    TGOHF666 said:

    One of the key elements that people overlook on taxes is are they cost efficient and easy to collect accurately ...
    VAT is your baby for that. It's an unbelievably efficient tax. It's the absolute governor.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    The Downward trend in new Swedish ICU has definitely stopped



    Indeed given this data is laggy that suggests that after a week there will be a rise in the most recent figures.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    kinabalu said:

    I confess I didn't. But "well written" always helps.

    This is quite well written too -

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicspending/bulletins/ukgovernmentdebtanddeficitforeurostatmaast/march2019

    Don't you think?
    It is indeed, clear and concise bullet points.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,907
    malcolmg said:

    Sounds nice and simple solution , what would they do with all the parasitic lawyers and accountants that do the tax evasion though.
    Expand Rockall into a massive new naval base as an unpaid workfare program. With teaspoons.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,317

    Still sub 50% for the Tories, poor effort.
    Disaster.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    On the plus side for Sweden someone has come back to life on the 17th of April, yesterday they had 80 Covid deaths recorded for that day, today it is 79.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Also @kinabalu good charts in that link you gave. Especially Figure 2 showing that the deficit 1.2% of GDP is the lowest the UK has had since 2001/02 which thankfully leaves us in a much better position going into this crisis than in 2007/08 when look how close the deficit was to the yellow line in that chart - and how it had been that close since 2002/03.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,550
    RobD said:

    Disaster.
    The Tories are now the party of the 48%.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,647

    Do people generally use their dominant hand? (or mainly their dominant hand). Instinctively I assume so, but then again, I've only ever fired an air pistol...
    Yes plus some weapons are not able to be used by lefties as they eject the cartridge away from the body if held by a rightie and into your face if by a leftie. Although some can be amended to be used by lefties.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,794
    edited May 2020
    7 day hospital death trend for England:



    We're looking at ~ 350 deaths in hospitals within the next few days and hopefully below 300 within the next 7 days. The infection rate should now be low enough to implement a test and separate policy.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    I'm watching Kellyanne Conway - her face seems to be turning to Trump color, unless it's the lights used on the north lawn TV site.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    kinabalu said:

    VAT is your baby for that. It's an unbelievably efficient tax. It's the absolute governor.
    And utterly avoidable if you so choose :D
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    Also @kinabalu good charts in that link you gave. Especially Figure 2 showing that the deficit 1.2% of GDP is the lowest the UK has had since 2001/02 which thankfully leaves us in a much better position going into this crisis than in 2007/08 when look how close the deficit was to the yellow line in that chart - and how it had been that close since 2002/03.

    Imagine this had hit in 2009 - we would have been rooked.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,554

    It is indeed, clear and concise bullet points.
    I thought so too.

    And what did you make of that definition of what constitutes sound public finances? -

    The TFEU obliges EU Member States to comply with budgetary discipline by respecting two criteria: a deficit to GDP ratio and a debt to GDP ratio not exceeding reference values of 3% and 60% respectively, as defined in the Protocol on the EDP annexed to the TFEU.

    Sound broadly reasonable?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,991
    HYUFD said:
    One of the results I am anticipating from this virus episode is putting the Green Party back to a respectable showing.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Alistair said:

    The Downward trend in new Swedish ICU has definitely stopped



    Indeed given this data is laggy that suggests that after a week there will be a rise in the most recent figures.

    Eyeballing it that looks like a downward trend to me but bumpy. We'll have to see what continues to happen though.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,794
    Alistair said:

    The Downward trend in new Swedish ICU has definitely stopped



    Indeed given this data is laggy that suggests that after a week there will be a rise in the most recent figures.

    What's your reading of how things will proceed in Sweden? I think it's going to go very badly.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,317
    IanB2 said:

    One of the results I am anticipating from this virus episode is putting the Green Party back to a respectable showing.
    Ah, more splits on the left. Wonderful! :smiley:
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,826
    Alistair said:

    On the plus side for Sweden someone has come back to life on the 17th of April, yesterday they had 80 Covid deaths recorded for that day, today it is 79.

    Swedish data seems to be both lumpy and laggy. We probably won't know until next week whether this week is up, flat or down.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,146
    DavidL said:

    They really must be chewing the carpets at the news channels. The more hyperbolic their attacks get the more people ignore them.
    See also BBC Scotland.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,614
    They are his people
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    kinabalu said:

    I thought so too.

    And what did you make of that definition of what constitutes sound public finances? -

    The TFEU obliges EU Member States to comply with budgetary discipline by respecting two criteria: a deficit to GDP ratio and a debt to GDP ratio not exceeding reference values of 3% and 60% respectively, as defined in the Protocol on the EDP annexed to the TFEU.

    Sound broadly reasonable?
    That's the TFEU definition and no it does not.

    It says that you can be running a 2.9% deficit during a boom time so long as your debt isn't high without giving any thought as to what happens when the next inevitable recession comes after the boom - which is precisely what happened in 2007/08.

    This may be breaking news to you but I don't agree 100% with everything in the TFEU ;)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,554
    TGOHF666 said:

    And utterly avoidable if you so choose :D
    Not in most cases. And the collection mechanism is a thing of beauty.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,141
    IanB2 said:

    One of the results I am anticipating from this virus episode is putting the Green Party back to a respectable showing.
    I thought it would coincide with Corbyn being replaced by Starmer.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,614

    Still sub 50% for the Tories, poor effort.
    Tories more than Labour, LDs and Greens combined
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,647
    DavidL said:

    They really must be chewing the carpets at the news channels. The more hyperbolic their attacks get the more people ignore them.
    Not really. It's their job to hold the government to account. People can then make their own minds up as to how well the govt is doing.

    Of course there will be plenty supporting the government who are keen not to rock the boat and try something new while the pandemic is ongoing.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,614
    edited May 2020
    IanB2 said:

    One of the results I am anticipating from this virus episode is putting the Green Party back to a respectable showing.
    The Greens are the main gainers on this poll since Starmer's election alongside the Tories
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,794
    eadric said:

    I change my mind every day about Sweden. Today I don’t even know what to think. Their data is all over the place
    Their data can lag for up to 14 days, either by incompetence or policy the statistics in Sweden don't make sense.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    MaxPB said:

    What's your reading of how things will proceed in Sweden? I think it's going to go very badly.
    Get back to me in a week.

    Two days ago I thought Sweden was going to be pretty smug about how it had handled things. Now my gut is telling mw they are going to stabalise at a high ongoing death count and have to pivot to harder lockdown.

    But we are dealing with laggy data and this may just be a blip and in a couple of days time everything will still be on a downward trend.

    So, I don't know. I certainly wouldn't be gambling any money of the situation.
  • SussexJamesSussexJames Posts: 86
    TGOHF666 said:

    LOL - unless you knock a house down to rebuild or subdivide your property hasn't been rebanded since 1991. Just the 30 years ago..
    That's a general rebanding assessment. If your property is extended, you may get rebanded.
    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/council-tax-band-changes
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited May 2020

    Eyeballing it that looks like a downward trend to me but bumpy. We'll have to see what continues to happen though.
    Grey line is 7 day average, Orange line is my centroid normally spread average, blue is the daily figures



    It definitely was going down. I wouldn't like to say what it is doing now.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    IanB2 said:

    One of the results I am anticipating from this virus episode is putting the Green Party back to a respectable showing.
    Yes but at the expense of the Limpdems by the looks.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,317
    eadric said:

    The 31% who ‘know’ aliens don’t exist are the stupid ones. The universe contains 100 BILLION galaxies each with 100 BILLION stars, so there are trillions of planets.

    It is extremely improbable ours is the only planet showing signs of life.

    And of course there may be trillions of parallel universes. Or an infinite number.
    Or we could all be in a computer simulation.

    But then there would be aliens, I suppose. :D
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,146
    HYUFD said:
    In other words We SHOULD negotiate with terrorists when they're my terrorists.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    edited May 2020
    IF Trump is at that point when up to a fifth of Americans are losing their jobs, well.

    Biden? that's their guy to take down their bitterest enemy ever?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Alistair said:

    Grey line is 7 day average, Orange line is my centroid normally spread average



    It definitely was going down. I wouldn't like to say what it is doing now.
    Agreed. Even with those lines it looks like it is going down to me but we can't be certain. Once laggy data is added in the descent could be it could be a plateau or it could even be rising once more. Its hard to know at this stage.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,978

    See also BBC Scotland.
    I find BBC Scotland quite sycophantic tbh, but I wouldn't deny that Nicola has had a fairly good crisis despite the chaos and incompetence all around her. I thought Alex Bell's piece was more than a bit harsh.
  • blairfblairf Posts: 98
    Ref header. This is a once in a hundred year chance to not tinker but totally reform.

    1.NI/Tax unified and as others said. Ditch the breaks... all of them. Pensioners, self employed the lot.
    2. VAT on everything, no exceptions. tampons, bread, books the lot.
    3. Pensions. part of 1, just get rid of the allowances all together.
    4. Land value tax. it really isn't hard. Ref Korea.
    5. Abolish stamp duties and rates. Part of 4.
    6. Escalate the sin taxes, fuel, fags, booze, gambling, carbon. All of them. you want to do bad things feel free but you're paying for it.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    Alistair said:

    The Downward trend in new Swedish ICU has definitely stopped



    Indeed given this data is laggy that suggests that after a week there will be a rise in the most recent figures.

    As I understand it, two things are happening in Sweden, in Stockholm and surrounding county the outbreak has peaked and is now reducing, but in the rest of the country it is still growing slowly.

    The Swedish althoratys think that 25% or slightly over of the Stockholm population has had it and is now there for immune, and this combined with the mostly voluntary reduction in scochale contact, has brought R to under 1, without the hospitals being overrun.

    Outside the capitally, R is still over 1, and thfor growing but rise is slow, so the hospitals will likely not be overrun.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,550
    felix said:
    Perhaps he's going for the Michael Howard approach of losing with competence.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    In other words We SHOULD negotiate with terrorists when they're my terrorists.
    The Americans have always had a love-hate relationship with terrorists. Who do you think supported the IRA?
  • blairfblairf Posts: 98
    MaxPB said:

    Their data can lag for up to 14 days, either by incompetence or policy the statistics in Sweden don't make sense.
    I was talking to a major investment bank who have employed an army of their own epidemiologists to try and get a jump on government actions and their impacts on the markets. they are all working nicely... except Sweden. go figure.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,614
    edited May 2020
    blairf said:

    Ref header. This is a once in a hundred year chance to not tinker but totally reform.

    1.NI/Tax unified and as others said. Ditch the breaks... all of them. Pensioners, self employed the lot.
    2. VAT on everything, no exceptions. tampons, bread, books the lot.
    3. Pensions. part of 1, just get rid of the allowances all together.
    4. Land value tax. it really isn't hard. Ref Korea.
    5. Abolish stamp duties and rates. Part of 4.
    6. Escalate the sin taxes, fuel, fags, booze, gambling, carbon. All of them. you want to do bad things feel free but you're paying for it.

    National Insurance should be ringfenced as solely for state pensions, the NHS and contributions based JSA
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    MaxPB said:

    Their data can lag for up to 14 days, either by incompetence or policy the statistics in Sweden don't make sense.
    Here is the change in counts for daily deaths from the 17th of April to the 30th of April for Sweden

    -1,2,1,2,2,1,6,5,8,8,5,7,15,9

    So for 8 days Sweden's death data gets signficant additions and then minor changes for another 7 before stabalising.

    Haven't tracked their ICU data with the same care so can't tell you how much the most recent figures will rise.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,071
    Welcome news for addicts of Euro-poli-drama:

    Netflix Boards Danish Political Drama ‘Borgen’ For New Season, Adds All Seasons to Platform
    https://variety.com/2020/tv/global/netflix-borgen-drama-dr-2022-1234592836/

    Season 12... the battle between the Moderate Centrists and their new rivals, the Centrist Moderates.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,996
    I am still chuckling about Corbyn being deceived by his own election team.it really is lorralorralaughs.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,170
    edited May 2020
    Are the NHS death counters having the day off?
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180

    Perhaps he's going for the Michael Howard approach of losing with competence.
    I should imagine the Corbynites are loving it - indeed they may even be trolling the polling companies!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,614
    eadric said:

    The 31% who ‘know’ aliens don’t exist are the stupid ones. The universe contains 100 BILLION galaxies each with 100 BILLION stars, so there are trillions of planets.

    It is extremely improbable ours is the only planet showing signs of life.

    And of course there may be trillions of parallel universes. Or an infinite number.
    Life maybe, intelligent life who knows
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,978
    eadric said:

    The 31% who ‘know’ aliens don’t exist are the stupid ones. The universe contains 100 BILLION galaxies each with 100 BILLION stars, so there are trillions of planets.

    It is extremely improbable ours is the only planet showing signs of life.

    And of course there may be trillions of parallel universes. Or an infinite number.
    It seems mathematically impossible that aliens don't exist, indeed there are probably millions of them. Whether we will ever have any meaningful interaction with them given the time and space involved is a much more difficult question to which the provisional answer has to be "no".
    But still they come...
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    blairf said:

    Ref header. This is a once in a hundred year chance to not tinker but totally reform.

    1.NI/Tax unified and as others said. Ditch the breaks... all of them. Pensioners, self employed the lot.
    2. VAT on everything, no exceptions. tampons, bread, books the lot.
    3. Pensions. part of 1, just get rid of the allowances all together.
    4. Land value tax. it really isn't hard. Ref Korea.
    5. Abolish stamp duties and rates. Part of 4.
    6. Escalate the sin taxes, fuel, fags, booze, gambling, carbon. All of them. you want to do bad things feel free but you're paying for it.

    I would agree with all of that, except the last one. Instead I would add legalise and tax, Cannabis, prostitution, and so on.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,614
    edited May 2020
    felix said:
    Starmer has got about the same bounce IDS got in late 2001 at the moment, indeed IDS probably got more. However still a long way to go
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited May 2020
    eadric said:

    I change my mind every day about Sweden. Today I don’t even know what to think. Their data is all over the place
    The data is slow.

    The numbers real world reaction to policy changes is also slow.

    As a result you have to make slow decisions.

    Just chill for a while.

    Use your chilling out time to read Thinking In Systems: A Primer
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,614
    edited May 2020

    Perhaps he's going for the Michael Howard approach of losing with competence.
    One early 2004 Yougov poll had the Tories on 40% after Howard became leader

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/historical-polls/voting-intention-2001-2005
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    BigRich said:

    I would agree with all of that, except the last one. Instead I would add legalise and tax, Cannabis, prostitution, and so on.
    Prostitution is legal in this country so hard to legalise it.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,794

    Are the NHS death counters having the day off?

    The England stats are already available. 352 deaths announced, 86% from the 7 days prior.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,150
    Just back from my weekly shopping expedition. The new gap in supplies seems to be eggs - both Morrisons and the Co-op had run out.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180

    Are the NHS death counters having the day off?

    Mayday mayday!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,978

    The Americans have always had a love-hate relationship with terrorists. Who do you think supported the IRA?
    Gaddafi?
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    HYUFD said:

    Starmer has got about the same bounce IDS got in 2001 at the moment, indeed IDS probably got more. However still a long way to go
    It wasn't an entirely serious post tbf.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,978
    HYUFD said:

    Life maybe, intelligent life who knows
    Bit like the Labour party then.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,266
    edited May 2020
    slade said:

    Just back from my weekly shopping expedition. The new gap in supplies seems to be eggs - both Morrisons and the Co-op had run out.

    M&S too yesterday, but my local garage has them. However, they're requesting people bring their egg boxes back - I think that is the problem in the supply chain.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,554

    That's the TFEU definition and no it does not.

    It says that you can be running a 2.9% deficit during a boom time so long as your debt isn't high without giving any thought as to what happens when the next inevitable recession comes after the boom - which is precisely what happened in 2007/08.

    This may be breaking news to you but I don't agree 100% with everything in the TFEU ;)
    More the overall concept is what I thought might be interesting - how when assessing the state of a nation's public finances one looks at the level of deficit and of debt as a % of GDP.

    I suppose it's pretty obvious but, you know, I thought why not circulate because one or two people on here might not have a handle on this stuff like you and I have.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,146
    DavidL said:

    I find BBC Scotland quite sycophantic tbh, but I wouldn't deny that Nicola has had a fairly good crisis despite the chaos and incompetence all around her. I thought Alex Bell's piece was more than a bit harsh.
    Obviously not sycophantic enough, according to a Survation poll the Scottish public give the SG a 70% rating for trustworthiness over the Corona virus v. 42% for the BBC.

    D'ye think Jackson's official complaint against the BBC for lack of SNPbadness is well advised?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,071
    Nissan shakes off virus woes with April rebound in China, sources say
    https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/05/01/business/corporate-business/nissan-shakes-off-virus-woes-april-rebound-china-sales/
    BEIJING – Vehicle sales by Nissan Motor Co. in China this month had almost recovered to the prior year’s level, after logging a coronavirus-related 44.9 percent plunge in March, two sources with knowledge of the automaker’s preliminary data have said.

    The data reinforces growing optimism that the world’s biggest car market is stabilizing fast as businesses return to normal in China, making it a rare bright spot as most dealerships in Europe and the United States remain shut...
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    blairf said:

    Ref header. This is a once in a hundred year chance to not tinker but totally reform.

    1.NI/Tax unified and as others said. Ditch the breaks... all of them. Pensioners, self employed the lot.
    2. VAT on everything, no exceptions. tampons, bread, books the lot.
    3. Pensions. part of 1, just get rid of the allowances all together.
    4. Land value tax. it really isn't hard. Ref Korea.
    5. Abolish stamp duties and rates. Part of 4.
    6. Escalate the sin taxes, fuel, fags, booze, gambling, carbon. All of them. you want to do bad things feel free but you're paying for it.

    Some of these are starting to sound like the planning of Steiner's attack.

    The size of Britain's economy when we emerge simply cannot and will not be large enough to yield anything like the money required from these measures to recoup what we have spent either now and in the future.

    The only thing that might help is to take an axe to everything that isn;t the NHS in the public sector, slash taxes and deregulate madly.

    That might make us some money. I doubt whether it would be anything like enough.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,139
    I really hope the story about the change to counting tests isn't true. The story about the NHS procurement manager is bad enough, fiddling with the numbers on the same day is too much confidence-knocking news in one go.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,978

    Obviously not sycophantic enough, according to a Survation poll the Scottish public give the SG a 70% rating for trustworthiness over the Corona virus v. 42% for the BBC.

    D'ye think Jackson's official complaint against the BBC for lack of SNPbadness is well advised?
    I fear with Jackson you need to ask if this is the stupidest thing he could have done with his time and conclude the answer is probably and regrettably not.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,266
    felix said:
    The Boris is Back Bounce.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,170
    edited May 2020
    MaxPB said:

    The England stats are already available. 352 deaths announced, 86% from the 7 days prior.
    For some reason, I can't see them on the website.

    Edit:- Can now.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,826
    eadric said:

    I change my mind every day about Sweden. Today I don’t even know what to think. Their data is all over the place
    My guess is that Sweden won't be a total disaster, but basically it's a distraction. If you are not the UK or a couple of other countries your country will do better than Sweden at this stage. And if you are the UK then what can you learn from Sweden? Would it have been better not to have locked down and had absolutely catastrophic death rates? And if you are looking for role models, why not choose South Korea or somewhere like Denmark?

    There is one curiosity. People talk about British exceptionalism, but Swedish exceptionalism is on a different scale entirely. Including expectations that viruses behave differently there.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,991
    Scott_xP said:
    We should have learned from the Blair era that the problem with simplistic targets is always that they can be achieved in easier ways than that intended. Soviet hospitals wheeling patients into the street to die, redux.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,554
    TGOHF666 said:

    Imagine this had hit in 2009 - we would have been rooked.
    Damn right. And now we're utterly rooked.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,978
    Scott_xP said:
    Agreeing to mail is a bit dodgy but if the tests have been sent out after people have applied for them and are therefore presumably motivated what is the problem with that exactly?
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    The Americans have always had a love-hate relationship with terrorists. Who do you think supported the IRA?
    Mainly north east Catholics. I was in a bar in the Combat Zone in Boston in the late 70s when a couple of heavy set males in blue jeans and black leather jackets came in and stood quietly by the door, followed by several females dressed the same, who wandered through the bar passing buckets around for donations under the watchful eyes of the men. That was Noraid. Northeastern Catholics loved the country so much that they'd do anything short of actually going there. They viewed the IRA as romantically as we viewed the old west. In those days there were many bumper stickers that sid simply 26 + 6 = 1. It didn't require an explanation.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    DavidL said:

    I fear with Jackson you need to ask if this is the stupidest thing he could have done with his time and conclude the answer is probably and regrettably not.
    OH? What could be more stupid? I'm curious, please ...
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,146
    Nigelb said:

    Welcome news for addicts of Euro-poli-drama:

    Netflix Boards Danish Political Drama ‘Borgen’ For New Season, Adds All Seasons to Platform
    https://variety.com/2020/tv/global/netflix-borgen-drama-dr-2022-1234592836/

    Season 12... the battle between the Moderate Centrists and their new rivals, the Centrist Moderates.

    A later series on intra Scandi relations during the virus would be interesting. I'd imagine some reference to Swedish smugness getting its comeuppance would be unavoidable, if a little tasteless.
This discussion has been closed.