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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Pelosi says Trump’s handling of the COVID-19 caused “unnecessa

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  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,317
    Carnyx said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, sunbathing weather here.

    The sky is cloudless, clear and very very blue.

    I watched ewes which had just lambed and their lambs being moved by the farmer up the hill next to where I am living and they have all scrambled off to get the nice new grass there.

    I have acquired a large variety of knitting wools and will be making lots of lovely things to wear. If anyone fancies a nice hand-knitted garment - not just wool but in cotton or silk or linen etc - then VM me.

    I need to get a pair of really good binoculars and a book about birds so that I can recognise the many birds around here. The birdsong is wonderful.

    We were in a similar position some years back and although not ornithologists we still found that some guides just didn't show nearly enough for us in terms of the sex/age/seasonal variation in plumage etc., especially in illustrations. You need something specially painted to show this - books with a single photo etc per bird are useless.

    This is the one we now have - might be worth looking at, esp as it is n ot just GB.

    Collins Bird Guide
    Lars Svensson, Peter James Grant, Killian Mullarney


    Thank you.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,567
    TGOHF666 said:

    The paleo-conservatives are not so much out of line with the British public as in a completely different queue:

    https://twitter.com/yougov/status/1250807470655766529?s=21

    By paleo-conservatives, do you mean Toby Young?
    Rory B I believe

    https://twitter.com/rorybremner/status/1250740142391939073?s=20

    DIY stores are already exempt from the lockdown. Those that have shut down have done so of their own accord to protect their staff and customers.

    And many Garden centres are offering delivery on their full ranges to try and stay in business.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    Carnyx said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, sunbathing weather here.

    The sky is cloudless, clear and very very blue.

    I watched ewes which had just lambed and their lambs being moved by the farmer up the hill next to where I am living and they have all scrambled off to get the nice new grass there.

    I have acquired a large variety of knitting wools and will be making lots of lovely things to wear. If anyone fancies a nice hand-knitted garment - not just wool but in cotton or silk or linen etc - then VM me.

    I need to get a pair of really good binoculars and a book about birds so that I can recognise the many birds around here. The birdsong is wonderful.

    We were in a similar position some years back and although not ornithologists we still found that some guides just didn't show nearly enough for us in terms of the sex/age/seasonal variation in plumage etc., especially in illustrations. You need something specially painted to show this - books with a single photo etc per bird are useless.

    This is the one we now have - might be worth looking at, esp as it is n ot just GB.

    Collins Bird Guide
    Lars Svensson, Peter James Grant, Killian Mullarney


    You can get the Collins Guide as an app. I don't know how useful it is.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    TGOHF666 said:

    The paleo-conservatives are not so much out of line with the British public as in a completely different queue:

    https://twitter.com/yougov/status/1250807470655766529?s=21

    By paleo-conservatives, do you mean Toby Young?
    Rory B I believe

    https://twitter.com/rorybremner/status/1250740142391939073?s=20

    DIY stores are already exempt from the lockdown. Those that have shut down have done so of their own accord to protect their staff and customers.

    And many Garden centres are offering delivery on their full ranges to try and stay in business.
    Plants are very difficult to obtain - stocks are low.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,041

    OT. Probably won't mean anything much to anyone other than climbers but the great Joe Brown, one of the pioneers of British climbing and mountaineering has died aged 89.

    I used to love the live climbing on TV with Chris Bonnington. The Old Man of Hoy stands out.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,567

    Sandpit said:

    Can I be first to argue that the UK health system should be much more like Germany's?

    Everyone opposed to the government’s response should agree. ;)

    https://www.businessinsider.nl/germany-why-coronavirus-death-rate-lower-italy-spain-test-healthcare-2020-3?international=true&r=US

    The levels of investment should be similar.

    They aren't


    Wouldn't matter if they were.
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    edited April 2020

    An example of just what a contiguous bastard CV is.

    USNS Mercy now has coronvirus outbreak among the crew, despite all crew members being screened before boarding to start the mission.

    Lots of false negatives when you do testing.

    Raises difficult questions about care homes. Even if you lock in the manager, carers, cooks and cleaners, you're going to have residents going back and forth to A&E after falls etc. You can test them before they come back, but that isn't going to be infallible. Ideally you probably want two negative swabs before they're allowed out of the hospital/isolation system, as I believe was the procedure in China. But there still seems to be some uncertainty about how long people can transmit the virus for.

    Of course if your staff aren't locked down, and go home to see the kiddywinkles every night and do the shopping, it's only going to be a matter of time before one of them catches something. You can do the security theatre of thermometer-checks-before-entry but if someone's asymptomatic at the moment, they'll get through. You can do staff testing when they're feeling a bit rough or think they might have been exposed from someone else, but frankly if you're doing that you probably shouldn't be letting them come to work anyway - even a negative test doesn't mean they're really free. You can do regular random testing, but what's the chances you'll catch someone "just at the right time", after they've got virus but before they realise it? If they give you a negative test result and you believe it, how long are you going to treat them as "clear" for?

    You really need to work on the assumption, particularly if you're dealing with someone who hasn't come from a sealed environment, that they've got the bug. The optimal assumption from a predictive accuracy point of view is that they're fine, of course, because most people are, even at the height of the epidemic. But the optimal assumption from a health outcomes point of view is very much stay away from me.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    HYUFD said:

    Whatever you think of Johnson's teams performance over the virus, they are being utter twats over this:

    https://twitter.com/steverichards14/status/1250821284247867393

    As they do not want to suffer the fate May did when she delayed Brexit by extending the transition period and seeing Leavers again defect from the Tories to the Brexit Party

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1250692097205841920?s=19
    So, what's good for the Tory party not the country?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    HYUFD said:

    Whatever you think of Johnson's teams performance over the virus, they are being utter twats over this:

    https://twitter.com/steverichards14/status/1250821284247867393

    As they do not want to suffer the fate May did when she delayed Brexit by extending the transition period and seeing Leavers again defect from the Tories to the Brexit Party

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1250692097205841920?s=19
    So, what's good for the Tory party not the country?
    The party is the state. :)
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    So, the rolling weekly case increase: new cases announced Tues 14/4 - Thurs 16/4 ÷ new cases announced Tues 7/4 - Thurs 9/4: has reduced to 1.003. Below 1 tomorrow??
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited April 2020

    An example of just what a contiguous bastard CV is.

    USNS Mercy now has coronvirus outbreak among the crew, despite all crew members being screened before boarding to start the mission.

    Lots of false negatives when you do testing.

    Absolutely. Just mass testing people isn't quite the panacea some like to make it out to be.

    Until we have a reliable real time test, given how contagious this thing is, confined shared spaces are a huge issue. As Germany have indicated, the thought of going back to mass gathering for many many months just isn't on the cards.

    I don't see an easy solution to care homes, until you can test daily in real time. I can't see how temperature checks some countries rolled out are really that useful. By the time you have a temperature, you more than likely hacking your guts up and should be inside anyway.

    Feels a bit like customs at airports, it is mostly for show. Those they catch with the big drugs stashes are because of intelligence led operations.

  • humbuggerhumbugger Posts: 377
    Anyone any idea how much the EU will be prepared to pay if the UK agrees a request for an extension to the Transition?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    British firm that can deliver 1m coronavirus tests per week left waiting for Public Health England order
    Test is already being used in Germany, but PHE laboratory has not sent for a sample

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/15/british-company-can-deliver-one-million-coronavirus-tests-per/?li_source=LI&li_medium=li-recommendation-widget
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218
    humbugger said:

    Anyone any idea how much the EU will be prepared to pay if the UK agrees a request for an extension to the Transition?

    I don't want COVID-19 to be used a sleight of hand to leave us in the EU for a sustained additional period of time.

    But I'm also aware that neither the UK, the EU nor the constituent countries of the EU are very Brexit focused right now. And with - umm - rather good reason.

    So long as it's time limited to 3-4 months, I think an extension is probably prudent.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751

    RobD said:

    Vallance made the point that the medics considered the long term implications of what they are doing and the potentially deleterious affect on health when weighing up their recommendations/

    Sorry, but how can he? he isn't an economist, much less a politician he doesn't have the first idea of how much the economy is going to shrink, how big a hit that contraction will give to tax revenues, and what the government might do in response.

    Raab has effectively delegated the running of the country to the unqualified, unelected and unaccountable

    Terrifying.

    Luckily such experts exist in the civil service.
    Raab's five tests show he isn;t listening to any of them. He is in thrall to SAGE. Completely.
    Why - oh why - is he not taking more of a lead from anonymous nutters on the Internet?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609

    British firm that can deliver 1m coronavirus tests per week left waiting for Public Health England order
    Test is already being used in Germany, but PHE laboratory has not sent for a sample

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/15/british-company-can-deliver-one-million-coronavirus-tests-per/?li_source=LI&li_medium=li-recommendation-widget

    I really hope it isn't down to a turf war, but PHE does not seem to be on the ball.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370

    British firm that can deliver 1m coronavirus tests per week left waiting for Public Health England order
    Test is already being used in Germany, but PHE laboratory has not sent for a sample

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/15/british-company-can-deliver-one-million-coronavirus-tests-per/?li_source=LI&li_medium=li-recommendation-widget

    Betting is that is about 10% of the actual story. Just as with the ventilators.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Just donated to Captain Toms appeal 764k people donated an average of £20. Almost 15.3m raised
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780

    Monkeys said:

    Surely the EU will request an extension?

    UK spokesman claims even if EU requests one we will say 'no'.

    Deranged.
    It depends on the length of the extension, how many billions the EU would want, and how much we could be involved in bailing out the EU post covid 19

    Furthermore, how much EU law would inhibit our ability to mitigate the financial damage to our economy and the making of our own laws

    Answers to these questions will be needed to retain public opinion

    If Starmer tries to persuade the voters that paying more into the EU over transition and being restricted by EU law at the same time, he may find he has a big problem with them
    Yes indeed. The polling didn't broach whether the UK should pay any more to the EU as a consequence of extending the transition. It question also implied that the extension should only be for a few months given that it would arise only on account of the present national emergency.Had the question been posed in different terms there would have been a different response.

    If both the UK and EU consider that it is in their respective interests to extend the transition, I trust that neither will be so foolish to cut their nose to spite their face by demanding billions from the other as a price for reaching such an agreement.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    British firm that can deliver 1m coronavirus tests per week left waiting for Public Health England order
    Test is already being used in Germany, but PHE laboratory has not sent for a sample

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/15/british-company-can-deliver-one-million-coronavirus-tests-per/?li_source=LI&li_medium=li-recommendation-widget

    Betting is that is about 10% of the actual story. Just as with the ventilators.
    Telegraph are lying?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609

    Just donated to Captain Toms appeal 764k people donated an average of £20. Almost 15.3m raised

    What's his upper limit now, you think?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    British firm that can deliver 1m coronavirus tests per week left waiting for Public Health England order
    Test is already being used in Germany, but PHE laboratory has not sent for a sample

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/15/british-company-can-deliver-one-million-coronavirus-tests-per/?li_source=LI&li_medium=li-recommendation-widget

    Betting is that is about 10% of the actual story. Just as with the ventilators.
    Telegraph are lying?
    I wouldn't put it past them for missing a crucial bit of information that completely changes the story.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370

    British firm that can deliver 1m coronavirus tests per week left waiting for Public Health England order
    Test is already being used in Germany, but PHE laboratory has not sent for a sample

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/15/british-company-can-deliver-one-million-coronavirus-tests-per/?li_source=LI&li_medium=li-recommendation-widget

    Betting is that is about 10% of the actual story. Just as with the ventilators.
    Telegraph are lying?
    No - just not dug into the reason why in their story. As with the ventilator story - far more to it than - "design failed".
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    Just donated to Captain Toms appeal 764k people donated an average of £20. Almost 15.3m raised

    What's his upper limit now, you think?
    Would be fantastic to get to £20m i said a few days ago £15m and he has passed that so who knows.

    What do you think Mark?
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    rcs1000 said:

    humbugger said:

    Anyone any idea how much the EU will be prepared to pay if the UK agrees a request for an extension to the Transition?

    I don't want COVID-19 to be used a sleight of hand to leave us in the EU for a sustained additional period of time.

    But I'm also aware that neither the UK, the EU nor the constituent countries of the EU are very Brexit focused right now. And with - umm - rather good reason.

    So long as it's time limited to 3-4 months, I think an extension is probably prudent.
    Agreed.

    IIRC correctly, I think that the EU will need to know by 1 July whether an extension is acceptable to change EU law. It is going to present all sorts of problems re: budgets etc, but I suspect a no fault extension will eventually be agreed.

    However, as @Charles has consistently suggested, it will be done grudgingly to prevent the usual suspects from moaning. The previous administration lost all ability to govern when it willingly extended - this Govt. knows better.

    By the way, I wanted to thank you for the tip about Glass House, which I am currently reading (after ordering it about a year ago!). I'm sure you've already read it, but if not, Bad Blood about the Theranos scandal is also a riveting read. I do like a corporate investigation book - any more that anyone can recommend?

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    British firm that can deliver 1m coronavirus tests per week left waiting for Public Health England order
    Test is already being used in Germany, but PHE laboratory has not sent for a sample

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/15/british-company-can-deliver-one-million-coronavirus-tests-per/?li_source=LI&li_medium=li-recommendation-widget

    Betting is that is about 10% of the actual story. Just as with the ventilators.
    Telegraph are lying?
    No - just not dug into the reason why in their story. As with the ventilator story - far more to it than - "design failed".
    Telegraph story seems to conclude PHE are too busy!!

    PHE have had a terrible virus IMO
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited April 2020
    If I had to guess, these tests are like so many, they have very specific caveats. Remember the UK want an antibody test they can give to somebody that tells us if they ever had it with a very very high level of precision.

    Many of the tests either don't have the level of precision or are have restrictions like will only detect if you have had between week x and week y of infection.

    The big problem with one of the kits the UK got from China was it worked fine for people who had suffered CV and had a very significant reaction to it, but was absolutely shit for those that had very minor or no symptoms.

    Columbia University stated yesterday they know of no antibody test that works properly and it will be months until it does.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609

    Just donated to Captain Toms appeal 764k people donated an average of £20. Almost 15.3m raised

    What's his upper limit now, you think?
    Would be fantastic to get to £20m i said a few days ago £15m and he has passed that so who knows.

    What do you think Mark?
    I reckon it will keep going until his birthday. I can see it going to £20m. Was interesting how much it went up overnight - don't know how much of a story this is worldwide.....
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,041
    What has brought home to me the change over the last few weeks is that I have no entries in my diary for the rest of April and the whole of May. No football, no dentist's appointment, no family gatherings, and most of all no political events. In a normal year I would be out virtually every night knocking on doors or delivering leaflets.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    Just donated to Captain Toms appeal 764k people donated an average of £20. Almost 15.3m raised

    What's his upper limit now, you think?
    Would be fantastic to get to £20m i said a few days ago £15m and he has passed that so who knows.

    What do you think Mark?
    I reckon it will keep going until his birthday. I can see it going to £20m. Was interesting how much it went up overnight - don't know how much of a story this is worldwide.....
    Yes I wonder what % of the £15m is from outside the UK
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370

    If I had to guess, these tests are like so many, they have very specific caveats. Remember the UK want an antibody test they can give to somebody that tells us if they ever had it with a very very high level of precision.

    Many of the tests either don't have the level of precision or are have restrictions like will only detect if you have had between week x and week y of infection.

    Another possibility - the same approach is being readied for manufacture in the UK.

    Or that other approaches are promising and don't require a company that is already supplying the German system.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    The idea that Britain should be a Brexit buccaneer, turning its back resolutely against Europe and throwing itself into the arms of Donald Trump seems even more irresponsible.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/16/after-coronavirus-boris-johnsons-tories-will-be-a-very-different-party
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited April 2020
    As for too busy, that sounds like polite way of saying bugger off. Remember we had similar stories of people promising 1,000 of ventilators and then saying but the government won't listen to me. Then it turned out they either weren't suitable for the UK market or were via and agent of an agent of an agent who was billy bullshitting.

    I would be surprised if the UK authorities aren't aware of what antibody test South Korea have produced. Given this is a third party reseller now trying to flog them to the government, it might well be they have already tried them (or know about the limitations) and politely just putting the third party company on hold.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    If I had to guess, these tests are like so many, they have very specific caveats. Remember the UK want an antibody test they can give to somebody that tells us if they ever had it with a very very high level of precision.

    Many of the tests either don't have the level of precision or are have restrictions like will only detect if you have had between week x and week y of infection.

    The big problem with one of the kits the UK got from China was it worked fine for people who had suffered CV and had a very significant reaction to it, but was absolutely shit for those that had very minor or no symptoms.

    Columbia University stated yesterday they know of no antibody test that works properly and it will be months until it does.

    Why do you think Germany is using them Francis?

    Is it something to do with them being so far ahead in testing already, or something else?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    Binoculars are a personal choice, particularly in relation to handling. I find 10×'s too wobbly, and so the additional magnification of little use. 8× is fine, and for the same diameter optic have better brightness in low light. Portability matters, you have to have them with you for seeing anything!

    I have a very nice pair of 8×32 Opticron Traveller. They are waterproof and fit a large pocket or handbag. Good optics for the price.

    There is a good birding app quiz to test your knowledge called BirdID by Nord University, with pictures and sound. It can be quite tough!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    edited April 2020
    Pagan2 said:

    I have no skin in the game as couldn't afford private for my son. However the point I keep making and you consistently fail to answer is even if you ban all private schools it won't stop people using money to buy advantage

    They will if really wealthy have them educated abroad, if not really wealthy they will hire private tutors. I can see many teaming up one set hires a maths tutor, one hires an english etc....hmmm sounds almost like an unofficial private school there doesnt it. They will also use financial advantage and buy houses in good school areas and guess what that will crowd the poor out whereas now where many send their kids private they have no reason to buy up all the housing in good school areas so poorer people have more chance. Your solution I suspect is that it would condemn even more of the poorest to the failing schools and all because leftie ideological theory doesn't ever work when put into practise

    I think I have answered that. Some of this will happen but IMO the net impact will be a significant reduction in educational inequality.

    It's not a silver bullet. There are plenty of things we need to do in addition. For example, differentially higher funding for schools in disadvantaged areas.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited April 2020

    If I had to guess, these tests are like so many, they have very specific caveats. Remember the UK want an antibody test they can give to somebody that tells us if they ever had it with a very very high level of precision.

    Many of the tests either don't have the level of precision or are have restrictions like will only detect if you have had between week x and week y of infection.

    The big problem with one of the kits the UK got from China was it worked fine for people who had suffered CV and had a very significant reaction to it, but was absolutely shit for those that had very minor or no symptoms.

    Columbia University stated yesterday they know of no antibody test that works properly and it will be months until it does.

    Why do you think Germany is using them Francis?

    Is it something to do with them being so far ahead in testing already, or something else?
    The government egg-heads have said they want these antibody tests to perform a very specific role with very specific criteria. That might well be different to what the German's are using them for.

    There are loads of antibody tests out there. I think there are 14 companies in the UK alone offering them.
  • Just donated to Captain Toms appeal 764k people donated an average of £20. Almost 15.3m raised

    What's his upper limit now, you think?
    It feels like it is starting to slow down a bit. 3 million since early this morning.

    Maybe 18? He has also got 2 million of gift aid on top.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Foxy said:

    Binoculars are a personal choice, particularly in relation to handling. I find 10×'s too wobbly, and so the additional magnification of little use. 8× is fine, and for the same diameter optic have better brightness in low light. Portability matters, you have to have them with you for seeing anything!

    I have a very nice pair of 8×32 Opticron Traveller. They are waterproof and fit a large pocket or handbag. Good optics for the price.

    There is a good birding app quiz to test your knowledge called BirdID by Nord University, with pictures and sound. It can be quite tough!

    What are you seeing around you? I have lots of chaffinches and yellowhammers.

    I can't tell the difference between wrens and dunnocks. What is the key?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    The idea that Britain should be a Brexit buccaneer, turning its back resolutely against Europe and throwing itself into the arms of Donald Trump seems even more irresponsible.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/16/after-coronavirus-boris-johnsons-tories-will-be-a-very-different-party

    By the time the transition ends, Trump might only have a few weeks left in power. I accept that the word “might” is carrying a lot of weight in that sentence.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Looks like really good news on the face of it.

    Lets hope the roll out is quick

    Surely an extra 15,000 should see us over the line on sufficient ventilators

    I wonder how many hospitals are in the same position as my local one ie unable to expand beyond current numbers due to being at maximum pipe capacity?

    https://www.med-technews.com/news/government-orders-15-000-penlon-ventilators-following-mhra-a/
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    Just donated to Captain Toms appeal 764k people donated an average of £20. Almost 15.3m raised

    What's his upper limit now, you think?
    It feels like it is starting to slow down a bit. 3 million since early this morning.

    Maybe 18? He has also got 2 million of gift aid on top.
    Oh right wasnt aware the total excluded Gift Aid.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Here is an article in the Lancet about antibody tests,

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30788-1/fulltext#


    And write up in the Daily Mail

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8219793/Why-hard-make-reliable-coronavirus-antibody-test.html

    The Cliff Notes,

    "A Columbia University expert admitted it could take years to find an antibody test accurate enough."
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    DougSeal said:

    By the time the transition ends, Trump might only have a few weeks left in power. I accept that the word “might” is carrying a lot of weight in that sentence.

    WILL is the word you're looking for.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    edited April 2020
    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I have no skin in the game as couldn't afford private for my son. However the point I keep making and you consistently fail to answer is even if you ban all private schools it won't stop people using money to buy advantage

    They will if really wealthy have them educated abroad, if not really wealthy they will hire private tutors. I can see many teaming up one set hires a maths tutor, one hires an english etc....hmmm sounds almost like an unofficial private school there doesnt it. They will also use financial advantage and buy houses in good school areas and guess what that will crowd the poor out whereas now where many send their kids private they have no reason to buy up all the housing in good school areas so poorer people have more chance. Your solution I suspect is that it would condemn even more of the poorest to the failing schools and all because leftie ideological theory doesn't ever work when put into practise

    I think I have answered that. Some of this will happen but IMO the net impact will be a significant reduction in educational inequality.

    It's not a silver bullet. There are plenty of things we need to do in addition. For example, differentially higher funding for schools in disadvantaged areas.
    People buy educational advantage for their children by purchasing properties in catchment areas with the best state schools. What's your solution to that?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited April 2020
    Oh I missed something in the article. These tests that the reseller are trying to flog, are antigen tests. Doing a bit of research, they still need the PCR machines to process them. So same bottle neck as the current set of tests we use.

    http://www.koreabiomed.com/news/articleView.html?idxno=7760
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    Binoculars are a personal choice, particularly in relation to handling. I find 10×'s too wobbly, and so the additional magnification of little use. 8× is fine, and for the same diameter optic have better brightness in low light. Portability matters, you have to have them with you for seeing anything!

    I have a very nice pair of 8×32 Opticron Traveller. They are waterproof and fit a large pocket or handbag. Good optics for the price.

    There is a good birding app quiz to test your knowledge called BirdID by Nord University, with pictures and sound. It can be quite tough!

    What are you seeing around you? I have lots of chaffinches and yellowhammers.

    I can't tell the difference between wrens and dunnocks. What is the key?
    Mostly Magpies, Blackbirds, Robins and Wood Pigeons in my garden.

    No tits or finches at the moment. The odd wren in the hedgerow.

    I haven't explored outside my garden at present, being a good boy.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    "More than half of coronavirus tests not being used
    Government blames ‘lack of demand’ from NHS" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/more-than-half-of-coronavirus-tests-not-being-used-vr6rzdl25
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    Here is an article in the Lancet about antibody tests,

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30788-1/fulltext#


    And write up in the Daily Mail

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8219793/Why-hard-make-reliable-coronavirus-antibody-test.html

    The Cliff Notes,

    "A Columbia University expert admitted it could take years to find an antibody test accurate enough."

    Another question!

    Do you know why testing capacity is stated to be 35,000 but actual tests only about half that?

    I know Hancock claimed there wasnt sufficient demand at the weekend. But dont we have 100s of thousands in the NHS and Social Care alone that require tests and add to that the Nursing home stuff from Monday.

    How can we only be doing 50% of the supposed Capacity?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Looks like really good news on the face of it.

    Lets hope the roll out is quick

    Surely an extra 15,000 should see us over the line on sufficient ventilators

    I wonder how many hospitals are in the same position as my local one ie unable to expand beyond current numbers due to being at maximum pipe capacity?

    https://www.med-technews.com/news/government-orders-15-000-penlon-ventilators-following-mhra-a/

    Oxygen bandwidth is a problem, and some drugs to paralyse and sedate are getting short too.

    The big shortage is expertise though. Managing ventilation without causing lung injury is a science and an art, and even more so in a multi organ failure situation. I would take my hat off to the ICU guys, but needed as PPE.

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Looks like Andy JS just found an answer

    Just 2,000 of these tests were administered at commercial drive-through sites, despite there being capacity for 15,000. There are now more than 20 drive-through sites, intended to be no more than an hour and a half’s drive away for NHS workers.



  • Just donated to Captain Toms appeal 764k people donated an average of £20. Almost 15.3m raised

    What's his upper limit now, you think?
    It feels like it is starting to slow down a bit. 3 million since early this morning.

    Maybe 18? He has also got 2 million of gift aid on top.
    Oh right wasnt aware the total excluded Gift Aid.
    Yep. Current total is 15.4 million + 2.9 million gift aid. Of course, the gift aid is kind of the Government giving money to itself!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    I looked out of the window earlier and was surprised to see an aircraft. First I've seen in weeks. Flightradar24 revealed it to be a KLM 777 on its way to Atlanta.

    I've just now spotted another vapour trail which seems to be some dubious 777 from Poznan to goodness knows where.

    I'm sure that the sky is bluer without all the high altitude combustion products.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Here is an article in the Lancet about antibody tests,

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30788-1/fulltext#


    And write up in the Daily Mail

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8219793/Why-hard-make-reliable-coronavirus-antibody-test.html

    The Cliff Notes,

    "A Columbia University expert admitted it could take years to find an antibody test accurate enough."

    The value of a test is different in a clinical situation is much different to a population screening, due to sensitivity and specificity issues.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited April 2020
    Interesting tit bit on more issues with antibody tests...

    Supplies from China have not yet passed sensitivity and specificity tests, and Professor Karol Sikora, a private oncologist, found that results for those under 40 who recovered from the virus had negative test results. He told the Telegraph: 'I think the antibody tests do work, but young people just don't seem to hae the antibodies, which suggests they are using other mechanisms to fight off the virus.'

    No idea if he is right with hypothesis, could be to do with the sensitivity of the test. But shows clearly this is really hard to test for, and why nobody has a reliable antibody test yet.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    Looks like Andy JS just found an answer

    Just 2,000 of these tests were administered at commercial drive-through sites, despite there being capacity for 15,000. There are now more than 20 drive-through sites, intended to be no more than an hour and a half’s drive away for NHS workers.



    Looks like we need to bring testing to hospitals and Care Homes to me.

    Cant see the old dears going on an up to 1.5hr trip to a testing centre
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I have no skin in the game as couldn't afford private for my son. However the point I keep making and you consistently fail to answer is even if you ban all private schools it won't stop people using money to buy advantage

    They will if really wealthy have them educated abroad, if not really wealthy they will hire private tutors. I can see many teaming up one set hires a maths tutor, one hires an english etc....hmmm sounds almost like an unofficial private school there doesnt it. They will also use financial advantage and buy houses in good school areas and guess what that will crowd the poor out whereas now where many send their kids private they have no reason to buy up all the housing in good school areas so poorer people have more chance. Your solution I suspect is that it would condemn even more of the poorest to the failing schools and all because leftie ideological theory doesn't ever work when put into practise

    I think I have answered that. Some of this will happen but IMO the net impact will be a significant reduction in educational inequality.

    It's not a silver bullet. There are plenty of things we need to do in addition. For example, differentially higher funding for schools in disadvantaged areas.
    People buy educational advantage for their children by purchasing properties in catchment areas with the best state schools. What's your solution to that?
    When the middle class start using state schools, the complaint goes up that the schools "diversity" as measured by free school meals is going down.

    So success is failure.
    Failure is also failure.

    Hmmmm....
  • johnoundlejohnoundle Posts: 120
    rcs1000 said:

    humbugger said:

    Anyone any idea how much the EU will be prepared to pay if the UK agrees a request for an extension to the Transition?

    I don't want COVID-19 to be used a sleight of hand to leave us in the EU for a sustained additional period of time.

    But I'm also aware that neither the UK, the EU nor the constituent countries of the EU are very Brexit focused right now. And with - umm - rather good reason.

    So long as it's time limited to 3-4 months, I think an extension is probably prudent.

    Problem is that the EU claims that we can only extend for one or two years, any other extensions will require a new EU treaty.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218

    rcs1000 said:

    humbugger said:

    Anyone any idea how much the EU will be prepared to pay if the UK agrees a request for an extension to the Transition?

    I don't want COVID-19 to be used a sleight of hand to leave us in the EU for a sustained additional period of time.

    But I'm also aware that neither the UK, the EU nor the constituent countries of the EU are very Brexit focused right now. And with - umm - rather good reason.

    So long as it's time limited to 3-4 months, I think an extension is probably prudent.

    Problem is that the EU claims that we can only extend for one or two years, any other extensions will require a new EU treaty.
    Source?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,932
    Who is Melanie and did she also call Sir Kieth Starmer?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    Binoculars are a personal choice, particularly in relation to handling. I find 10×'s too wobbly, and so the additional magnification of little use. 8× is fine, and for the same diameter optic have better brightness in low light. Portability matters, you have to have them with you for seeing anything!

    I have a very nice pair of 8×32 Opticron Traveller. They are waterproof and fit a large pocket or handbag. Good optics for the price.

    There is a good birding app quiz to test your knowledge called BirdID by Nord University, with pictures and sound. It can be quite tough!

    What are you seeing around you? I have lots of chaffinches and yellowhammers.

    I can't tell the difference between wrens and dunnocks. What is the key?
    Mostly Magpies, Blackbirds, Robins and Wood Pigeons in my garden.

    No tits or finches at the moment. The odd wren in the hedgerow.

    I haven't explored outside my garden at present, being a good boy.
    You are allowed to exercise you know.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    Binoculars are a personal choice, particularly in relation to handling. I find 10×'s too wobbly, and so the additional magnification of little use. 8× is fine, and for the same diameter optic have better brightness in low light. Portability matters, you have to have them with you for seeing anything!

    I have a very nice pair of 8×32 Opticron Traveller. They are waterproof and fit a large pocket or handbag. Good optics for the price.

    There is a good birding app quiz to test your knowledge called BirdID by Nord University, with pictures and sound. It can be quite tough!

    What are you seeing around you? I have lots of chaffinches and yellowhammers.

    I can't tell the difference between wrens and dunnocks. What is the key?
    Wrens are smaller with an upturned tail. And a beautiful song.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    humbugger said:

    Anyone any idea how much the EU will be prepared to pay if the UK agrees a request for an extension to the Transition?

    I don't want COVID-19 to be used a sleight of hand to leave us in the EU for a sustained additional period of time.

    But I'm also aware that neither the UK, the EU nor the constituent countries of the EU are very Brexit focused right now. And with - umm - rather good reason.

    So long as it's time limited to 3-4 months, I think an extension is probably prudent.

    Problem is that the EU claims that we can only extend for one or two years, any other extensions will require a new EU treaty.
    Source?
    Guardian 30.3.20 seems to confirm the only a 1 or 2 year extension.

    Only to go on later in the same Article to say they will consider any extension


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/mar/30/extend-brexit-transition-by-years-over-coronavirus-uk-told
  • Who is Melanie and did she also call Sir Kieth Starmer?
    Why Is he pregnant !!!!!
  • DennisBetsDennisBets Posts: 244
    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    Binoculars are a personal choice, particularly in relation to handling. I find 10×'s too wobbly, and so the additional magnification of little use. 8× is fine, and for the same diameter optic have better brightness in low light. Portability matters, you have to have them with you for seeing anything!

    I have a very nice pair of 8×32 Opticron Traveller. They are waterproof and fit a large pocket or handbag. Good optics for the price.

    There is a good birding app quiz to test your knowledge called BirdID by Nord University, with pictures and sound. It can be quite tough!

    What are you seeing around you? I have lots of chaffinches and yellowhammers.

    I can't tell the difference between wrens and dunnocks. What is the key?
    Mostly Magpies, Blackbirds, Robins and Wood Pigeons in my garden.

    No tits or finches at the moment. The odd wren in the hedgerow.

    I haven't explored outside my garden at present, being a good boy.
    There used to be lots of Dunnocks around in the 90's but do you still get them? I only see House Sparrows
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,878
    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I have no skin in the game as couldn't afford private for my son. However the point I keep making and you consistently fail to answer is even if you ban all private schools it won't stop people using money to buy advantage

    They will if really wealthy have them educated abroad, if not really wealthy they will hire private tutors. I can see many teaming up one set hires a maths tutor, one hires an english etc....hmmm sounds almost like an unofficial private school there doesnt it. They will also use financial advantage and buy houses in good school areas and guess what that will crowd the poor out whereas now where many send their kids private they have no reason to buy up all the housing in good school areas so poorer people have more chance. Your solution I suspect is that it would condemn even more of the poorest to the failing schools and all because leftie ideological theory doesn't ever work when put into practise

    I think I have answered that. Some of this will happen but IMO the net impact will be a significant reduction in educational inequality.

    It's not a silver bullet. There are plenty of things we need to do in addition. For example, differentially higher funding for schools in disadvantaged areas.
    I accept you mean well and really believe it will work....

    However consider for a moment what if I am right and the net result is the superwealthy just school abroad, the next level down swamp catchement areas of good schools so the bottom 50% all have their kids pushed into the sink schools. Who have you helped....you have taken opportunity away not given it and made the divide even worse. You now are in a situation with no way back as its easy to burn things down but not easy to build them back up again.

    As to differential funding I don't think that will make a difference because in those failing schools the reason they are failing is not the quality of teacher, or the equipment as much as the fact that a high percentage of those kids just dont value education because that is what they are taught and home. They even look on anyone trying to learn with suspicion and use it to mock, belittle and beat up.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036

    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    Binoculars are a personal choice, particularly in relation to handling. I find 10×'s too wobbly, and so the additional magnification of little use. 8× is fine, and for the same diameter optic have better brightness in low light. Portability matters, you have to have them with you for seeing anything!

    I have a very nice pair of 8×32 Opticron Traveller. They are waterproof and fit a large pocket or handbag. Good optics for the price.

    There is a good birding app quiz to test your knowledge called BirdID by Nord University, with pictures and sound. It can be quite tough!

    What are you seeing around you? I have lots of chaffinches and yellowhammers.

    I can't tell the difference between wrens and dunnocks. What is the key?
    Mostly Magpies, Blackbirds, Robins and Wood Pigeons in my garden.

    No tits or finches at the moment. The odd wren in the hedgerow.

    I haven't explored outside my garden at present, being a good boy.
    There used to be lots of Dunnocks around in the 90's but do you still get them? I only see House Sparrows
    We get lots of dunnocks but bizarrely have never seen a house sparrow in our garden in the year and a half we've been here.
  • John McDonnell causing trouble for Starmer
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,708
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    humbugger said:

    Anyone any idea how much the EU will be prepared to pay if the UK agrees a request for an extension to the Transition?

    I don't want COVID-19 to be used a sleight of hand to leave us in the EU for a sustained additional period of time.

    But I'm also aware that neither the UK, the EU nor the constituent countries of the EU are very Brexit focused right now. And with - umm - rather good reason.

    So long as it's time limited to 3-4 months, I think an extension is probably prudent.

    Problem is that the EU claims that we can only extend for one or two years, any other extensions will require a new EU treaty.
    Source?
    The withdrawal agreement.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601

    Looks like Andy JS just found an answer

    Just 2,000 of these tests were administered at commercial drive-through sites, despite there being capacity for 15,000. There are now more than 20 drive-through sites, intended to be no more than an hour and a half’s drive away for NHS workers.



    +1
  • SockySocky Posts: 404
    FPT:
    kinabalu said:


    Most say that when comps replaced grammars it BOOSTED private schools.

    Are you postulating the opposite?

    I would guess that their customer base changed over time, and possibly by location.

    In the city I grew up in, initially most parents thought the ex-grammars would keep their status, and so tried to push their way into them (letters from important people and so-on). It quickly became clear that the inner-city catchment area would swamp any lingering quality ethos. From then on private schools in effect became the new grammar schools, and yes that gave them a boost.

    Over time state schools in the middle class areas started to get a better reputation. Same teachers, same facilities, but "better" pupil intake. The school I went to is a good example of that. It was a bit middling when I attended, but recently I was surprised to see it mentioned as a plus point in an estate agent blurb.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    Andra in all his gammony graciousness.

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1250788593456549888?s=20
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766

    Interesting tit bit on more issues with antibody tests...

    Supplies from China have not yet passed sensitivity and specificity tests, and Professor Karol Sikora, a private oncologist, found that results for those under 40 who recovered from the virus had negative test results. He told the Telegraph: 'I think the antibody tests do work, but young people just don't seem to hae the antibodies, which suggests they are using other mechanisms to fight off the virus.'

    No idea if he is right with hypothesis, could be to do with the sensitivity of the test. But shows clearly this is really hard to test for, and why nobody has a reliable antibody test yet.

    Oh, that's v interesting, given this comment on Toby Young's new website:




    "Caswell Bligh
    I am not an immunologist, but I have a degree in computer science and in order to get a handle on what is going on here, I have created an epidemiological model. As a result, it has led me to wonder about the criteria for ‘exposed’, ‘infected’ and ‘immune’.

    In immunology there seems to be the concept of ‘minimum infectious dose’. If considering influenza (presumably better understood than Covid-19) we read the following:

    “Influenza Virus Aerosols in the Air and Their Infectiousness.
    Influenza is one of the most contagious and rapidly spreading infectious diseases and an important global cause of hospital admissions and mortality. There are some amounts of the virus in the air constantly. These amounts are generally not enough to cause disease in people, due to infection prevention by healthy immune systems. However, at a higher concentration of the airborne virus, the risk of human infection increases dramatically…. The human infectious dose of the influenza A virus, when administered by aerosol to subjects free of serum neutralizing antibodies, ranges between 1.95 × 10^3 and 3.0 × 10^3 viral particles…. it is important to consider that the risk of acquiring influenza is determined by both the concentration of the influenza A virus infectious particles (not their total amount) in the air and the immune status of the exposed individuals.”
    https://www.hindawi.com/journals/av/2014/859090/#conclusions

    So you can breathe in some of the virus, but if your ‘immune status’ is satisfactory you won’t be infected until a threshold is reached, your immune system giving you ‘infection prevention’ even though you have never developed antibodies to the virus before."...

    (there's more on the website)

  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    edited April 2020
    On topic: The case* against Johnson is nowhere near as clear cut as against Trump. Trump is on record calling Corona Virus fake news, and caiming the virus is nothing worse than seasonal flu. He has consistenty claimed that the Dems and the Dem friendly media are using the virus to attack him. He refused to take responsibility for the CDC's inability to get the test kits out and once the restrictions started he has repeatedly said they won't last for long eg back "in the churches for Easter". Two days ago he was claiming that he had absolute power over the states on this issue.

    Johnson has been responsible for some bad calls, but these are nowhere near in the same league as Trump's. Be has never claimed that the virus should be ignored or indicated that the restrictions would be lifted due to economic rather than health grounds.



    *More a moral case than a legal one.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,878
    edited April 2020
    Socky said:

    FPT:

    kinabalu said:


    Most say that when comps replaced grammars it BOOSTED private schools.

    Are you postulating the opposite?

    I would guess that their customer base changed over time, and possibly by location.

    In the city I grew up in, initially most parents thought the ex-grammars would keep their status, and so tried to push their way into them (letters from important people and so-on). It quickly became clear that the inner-city catchment area would swamp any lingering quality ethos. From then on private schools in effect became the new grammar schools, and yes that gave them a boost.

    Over time state schools in the middle class areas started to get a better reputation. Same teachers, same facilities, but "better" pupil intake. The school I went to is a good example of that. It was a bit middling when I attended, but recently I was surprised to see it mentioned as a plus point in an estate agent blurb.
    I didn't get a choice as a kid, failing school fairly bright kid. Didn't stand a chance. Put your head out and stand out academically and you could look forward to your work being flushed, your school bag urinated in. Casual thumps and bumps in the hallway etc. Most of the teachers seemed intimidated by the parents of certain kids so they basically ran riot
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    Binoculars are a personal choice, particularly in relation to handling. I find 10×'s too wobbly, and so the additional magnification of little use. 8× is fine, and for the same diameter optic have better brightness in low light. Portability matters, you have to have them with you for seeing anything!

    I have a very nice pair of 8×32 Opticron Traveller. They are waterproof and fit a large pocket or handbag. Good optics for the price.

    There is a good birding app quiz to test your knowledge called BirdID by Nord University, with pictures and sound. It can be quite tough!

    What are you seeing around you? I have lots of chaffinches and yellowhammers.

    I can't tell the difference between wrens and dunnocks. What is the key?
    Wrens are smaller with an upturned tail. And a beautiful song.
    Thanks. I knew that wrens were smaller, it's just that whizzing past on a bike before it scarpers it's tricky to tell when the two aren't often seen lined up together to make the comparison. I'll have to note the tail, though, that is an extremely good steer.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,567

    British firm that can deliver 1m coronavirus tests per week left waiting for Public Health England order
    Test is already being used in Germany, but PHE laboratory has not sent for a sample

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/15/british-company-can-deliver-one-million-coronavirus-tests-per/?li_source=LI&li_medium=li-recommendation-widget

    Betting is that is about 10% of the actual story. Just as with the ventilators.
    Telegraph are lying?
    It is as true today as it was in times past, if you want to know how accurate newspaper stories are, have a look at a news item that you really know something about - something you are working on or an expert in or which involves someone you are close to.

    Look at how many mistakes are in the story - there will be loads. And this will almost certainly be a journalist trying their best to be accurate who has no particular axe to grind about the story. Once you have seen that magnify it up to the big stories where everyone has an angle including the journalist who wrote it and where no one who is involved directly in the story is an expert - again including the journalist who wrote it.

    No one has to lie. They just have to be doing journalism to the same standard it has been done for decades.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    John McDonnell causing trouble for Starmer

    Shocked I tell you

    The trots want their party back
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    Binoculars are a personal choice, particularly in relation to handling. I find 10×'s too wobbly, and so the additional magnification of little use. 8× is fine, and for the same diameter optic have better brightness in low light. Portability matters, you have to have them with you for seeing anything!

    I have a very nice pair of 8×32 Opticron Traveller. They are waterproof and fit a large pocket or handbag. Good optics for the price.

    There is a good birding app quiz to test your knowledge called BirdID by Nord University, with pictures and sound. It can be quite tough!

    What are you seeing around you? I have lots of chaffinches and yellowhammers.

    I can't tell the difference between wrens and dunnocks. What is the key?
    Wrens are smaller with an upturned tail. And a beautiful song.
    Thanks. I knew that wrens were smaller, it's just that whizzing past on a bike before it scarpers it's tricky to tell when the two aren't often seen lined up together to make the comparison. I'll have to note the tail, though, that is an extremely good steer.
    And to add, @Dura_Ace, when I say whizzing I obvs don't mean Mueller-Korenek whizzing.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    rcs1000 said:

    humbugger said:

    Anyone any idea how much the EU will be prepared to pay if the UK agrees a request for an extension to the Transition?

    I don't want COVID-19 to be used a sleight of hand to leave us in the EU for a sustained additional period of time.

    But I'm also aware that neither the UK, the EU nor the constituent countries of the EU are very Brexit focused right now. And with - umm - rather good reason.

    So long as it's time limited to 3-4 months, I think an extension is probably prudent.
    And irrelevant to the Tories electoral prospects, this early into their term of government.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Floater said:

    John McDonnell causing trouble for Starmer

    Shocked I tell you

    The trots want their party back
    I bet their WhatsApp groups are a bit spicey.
  • johnoundlejohnoundle Posts: 120
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    humbugger said:

    Anyone any idea how much the EU will be prepared to pay if the UK agrees a request for an extension to the Transition?

    I don't want COVID-19 to be used a sleight of hand to leave us in the EU for a sustained additional period of time.

    But I'm also aware that neither the UK, the EU nor the constituent countries of the EU are very Brexit focused right now. And with - umm - rather good reason.

    So long as it's time limited to 3-4 months, I think an extension is probably prudent.

    Problem is that the EU claims that we can only extend for one or two years, any other extensions will require a new EU treaty.
    Source?
    The Guardian amongst others.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482

    Gaukey seems to have a sense of humour. That is one fecking creepy photo tho'.

    https://twitter.com/DavidGauke/status/1250783639232753665?s=20

    The big blue 'Hot Water' sign is a particularly good touch.
    He's putting hot blue water between himself and the opposition.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    humbugger said:

    Anyone any idea how much the EU will be prepared to pay if the UK agrees a request for an extension to the Transition?

    I don't want COVID-19 to be used a sleight of hand to leave us in the EU for a sustained additional period of time.

    But I'm also aware that neither the UK, the EU nor the constituent countries of the EU are very Brexit focused right now. And with - umm - rather good reason.

    So long as it's time limited to 3-4 months, I think an extension is probably prudent.

    Problem is that the EU claims that we can only extend for one or two years, any other extensions will require a new EU treaty.
    Source?

    The withdrawal agreement.
    A bit odd they write two such long periods in. Surely they could see that was going to be a red rag in a way that an emergency extension for totally unforeseen circumstances ( as now precisely) of a shorter time might be acceptable all round.

    As it is faced with one year or nothing I’d be very very surprised if the U.K. Govt doesn’t plump for nothing, especially as it gives six months notice for supermarkets to stock up on bog roll and any trade friction is going to be a minor wrinkle compared with Covid.

    In which the EU will managed to have (yet again) twisted the cards and yet again ended up with a harder outcome.

    Could’ve just given us an emergency brake in Feb 16, looks increasingly likely they’re going to end up with WTO and a big Irish border issue, despite all their much vaunted negotiation brilliance.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,604

    British firm that can deliver 1m coronavirus tests per week left waiting for Public Health England order
    Test is already being used in Germany, but PHE laboratory has not sent for a sample

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/15/british-company-can-deliver-one-million-coronavirus-tests-per/?li_source=LI&li_medium=li-recommendation-widget

    Betting is that is about 10% of the actual story. Just as with the ventilators.
    Telegraph are lying?
    It is as true today as it was in times past, if you want to know how accurate newspaper stories are, have a look at a news item that you really know something about - something you are working on or an expert in or which involves someone you are close to.

    Look at how many mistakes are in the story - there will be loads. And this will almost certainly be a journalist trying their best to be accurate who has no particular axe to grind about the story. Once you have seen that magnify it up to the big stories where everyone has an angle including the journalist who wrote it and where no one who is involved directly in the story is an expert - again including the journalist who wrote it.

    No one has to lie. They just have to be doing journalism to the same standard it has been done for decades.
    +1 This.

    If you read a story you know about and can see all the errors and omissions, transfer that same thinking over to the stories you know nothing about.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    welshowl said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    humbugger said:

    Anyone any idea how much the EU will be prepared to pay if the UK agrees a request for an extension to the Transition?

    I don't want COVID-19 to be used a sleight of hand to leave us in the EU for a sustained additional period of time.

    But I'm also aware that neither the UK, the EU nor the constituent countries of the EU are very Brexit focused right now. And with - umm - rather good reason.

    So long as it's time limited to 3-4 months, I think an extension is probably prudent.

    Problem is that the EU claims that we can only extend for one or two years, any other extensions will require a new EU treaty.
    Source?

    The withdrawal agreement.
    A bit odd they write two such long periods in. Surely they could see that was going to be a red rag in a way that an emergency extension for totally unforeseen circumstances ( as now precisely) of a shorter time might be acceptable all round.

    As it is faced with one year or nothing I’d be very very surprised if the U.K. Govt doesn’t plump for nothing, especially as it gives six months notice for supermarkets to stock up on bog roll and any trade friction is going to be a minor wrinkle compared with Covid.

    In which the EU will managed to have (yet again) twisted the cards and yet again ended up with a harder outcome.

    Could’ve just given us an emergency brake in Feb 16, looks increasingly likely they’re going to end up with WTO and a big Irish border issue, despite all their much vaunted negotiation brilliance.

    The EU have made many serious mistakes but the fundamental problem is that they are dealing with hate-filled lunatics.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    That spare testing capacity stuff is massive bullshit. There's hundreds of thousands of frontline NHS staff and other workers to test. Again, why isn't anyone asking this question. If we have the capability to do ~40k tests per day then why aren't we testing front line workers?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,604
    MaxPB said:

    That spare testing capacity stuff is massive bullshit. There's hundreds of thousands of frontline NHS staff and other workers to test. Again, why isn't anyone asking this question. If we have the capability to do ~40k tests per day then why aren't we testing front line workers?

    There has to be a bottleneck somewhere, but it appears to be inordinately difficult to work out exactly where.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    Floater said:

    John McDonnell causing trouble for Starmer

    Shocked I tell you

    The trots want their party back
    Considering he and Corbyn are thick as thieves hate israel and are friends of Hamas..then McDonnell can fuck right off.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    John McDonnell causing trouble for Starmer

    Saw that. Starmer should go nuclear and expel him and the others from the Labour Party.
  • marke0903marke0903 Posts: 30
    BBC PARLIAMENT
    BBC PARLIAMENT

    Election 2010

    To mark its 10th anniversary, BBC Parliament relives the dramatic 2010 General Election that saw the end of thirteen years of Labour government, with incumbent Prime Minister Gordon Brown’s party losing to David Cameron’s Conservatives who, having fallen short of winning an overall majority, went on to negotiate an agreement to form a coalition government with Nick Clegg’s Liberal Democrats.

    David Dimbleby presents the BBC’s 13-hour Election 2010 election results programme from Thursday 6 May 2010, with Jeremy Paxman quizzing the politicians and Nick Robinson giving the inside track on their thinking. Jeremy Vine uses the latest graphic technology to analyse the big picture with the greatest-ever Swingometer.

    Emily Maitlis is joined by Peter Kellner to look at the seat-by-seat detail of how Britain has voted. Andrew Neil plays host to the great and the good to watch the results come in, with live interviews, and Fiona Bruce has regular news updates.

    Ep 1/1

    Friday 8 May

    9.55am-12.00am

    BBC PARLIAMENT
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    That spare testing capacity stuff is massive bullshit. There's hundreds of thousands of frontline NHS staff and other workers to test. Again, why isn't anyone asking this question. If we have the capability to do ~40k tests per day then why aren't we testing front line workers?

    There has to be a bottleneck somewhere, but it appears to be inordinately difficult to work out exactly where.
    Capacity means there's no bottleneck to reach the ~40k figure. It means if there was "need" to run 40k tests then it could be achieved. That's what I'm saying is bullshit. There is clearly a need to run as many tests as possible but we're stuck at ~20k.
  • SockySocky Posts: 404
    Pagan2 said:

    I didn't get a choice as a kid, failing school fairly bright kid. Didn't stand a chance. Put your head out and stand out academically and you could look forward to your work being flushed, your school bag urinated in. Casual thumps and bumps in the hallway etc. Most of the teachers seemed intimidated by the parents of certain kids so they basically ran riot

    The school I attended was built as a secondary modern, but is located in a rural area in what is now a middle class dormitory village.

    In a slight echo of this year, I passed the mock 11-plus, but never got to take the final exam as the area went comprehensive. My best friend (who had pushy parents) got a place in the ex-grammar in the city centre. Somewhat ironically by the time we both left education seven years later, my school was getting far better exam results.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464

    welshowl said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    humbugger said:

    Anyone any idea how much the EU will be prepared to pay if the UK agrees a request for an extension to the Transition?

    I don't want COVID-19 to be used a sleight of hand to leave us in the EU for a sustained additional period of time.

    But I'm also aware that neither the UK, the EU nor the constituent countries of the EU are very Brexit focused right now. And with - umm - rather good reason.

    So long as it's time limited to 3-4 months, I think an extension is probably prudent.

    Problem is that the EU claims that we can only extend for one or two years, any other extensions will require a new EU treaty.
    Source?

    The withdrawal agreement.
    A bit odd they write two such long periods in. Surely they could see that was going to be a red rag in a way that an emergency extension for totally unforeseen circumstances ( as now precisely) of a shorter time might be acceptable all round.

    As it is faced with one year or nothing I’d be very very surprised if the U.K. Govt doesn’t plump for nothing, especially as it gives six months notice for supermarkets to stock up on bog roll and any trade friction is going to be a minor wrinkle compared with Covid.

    In which the EU will managed to have (yet again) twisted the cards and yet again ended up with a harder outcome.

    Could’ve just given us an emergency brake in Feb 16, looks increasingly
    likely they’re going to end up with WTO and a big Irish border issue, despite all their much vaunted negotiation brilliance.


    The EU have made many serious mistakes but the fundamental problem is that they are dealing with hate-filled lunatics.
    No. They keep overplaying a strong hand.

    Could’ve taken Cameron seriously. Didn’t, lost the referendum. Could’ve
    forced May’s deal Through on 29.3.19. by refusing any extension, ditto in April 19, didn’t, twisted they’d get something softer or Ref2, got PM Boris. Repeated the whole farce again with 31.10.19 deadline, twisted on Grieve, Bercow, Letwin, Corbyn, Swinson getting their act together so set 31.1.20 deadline. Got Boris with 80 seat majority. Now, here we go again.

    At every stage since Feb 16 they’ve gambled, and at each point we’ve ended further and further away from them than even N Farage’s wildest drunken fantasy could’ve hoped for four and a bit years ago.

    From their point of view an utter failure of strategy.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    edited April 2020
    MaxPB said:

    That spare testing capacity stuff is massive bullshit. There's hundreds of thousands of frontline NHS staff and other workers to test. Again, why isn't anyone asking this question. If we have the capability to do ~40k tests per day then why aren't we testing front line workers?

    Most of that capacity just arrived in one 25k chunk (MIlton Keynes). Presumably the logistics have yet to be worked out.

    There's another one coming soon(tm) at Glasgow uni, which sounds like it's of similar scale.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Everyone out in my village for the weekly applause. Was driving back to my house when it happened so tooted my horn !
This discussion has been closed.