I have no issue with politicians celebrating wins and loses. We aren't talking about people losing their lives and yes an MP is technically out of a job, but they know all of this going into such a career and in reality most are able to use their experience and connections to find alternative employment.
I really have opened a can of worms here haven't I.
Sigh! At no point did I say you shouldn't celebrate wining. On the contrary I said you should. Have the biggest celebration that you can. Yes celebrate.
OK I hope what I said is clear.
What I did say was that unless your opponent was reprehensible in some way then also be magnanimous in your victory.
There is a huge difference between celebrating your win and enjoying your opponents defeat.
I'm sorry but there isn't a difference because they're two sides of the same coin.
Had Sturgeon been filmed responding to a Con Gain of Swinson's seat then yes it would have been just schaudenfreude but she wasn't, she was filmed celebrating an SNP gain. Her own gain.
Damn right she should celebrate that and if that's Sturgeon's loss then that's too bad for Sturgeon.
Philip, forget Sturgeon. It was a mistake on my part reacting too fast to another's post. I can't know whether she was celebrating winning or Swinson losing so it is not fair of me to comment as I did. It didn't look good at the time, but I think that is unfair on her. I can't possibly know what was in her mind.
What about the general principle of enjoying your victory but feeling sorry for your opponent (with the justifiable exception of an offensive opponent e.g. a cheat)?
Her winning/Swinson losng were the exact same thing. Swinson's defeat was an SNP gain, her gain. That is my point - celebrating your own side defeating your opponent is natural. Its like saying Liverpool shouldn't celebrate victory over Manchester United because its harsh on Manchester United. I'm sorry but victory is victory and celebrate it in the moment and commiserate afterwards.The celebrations come first naturally and she was caught on camera in the moment celebrating - she is human and good for her.
You can feel sorry for your opponent afterwards absolutely. At the moment though its entirely appropriate to enjoy your victory/their defeat which is the same thing.
Philip, but you have just said what I have been saying all along.
I have already admitted I got the Sturgeon thing wrong (it was just the appearance at the time that didn't look good).
I have no issue with your last paragraph.
Then we're agreed
I think we got to the point of dancing on a pin head.
I'm sure you always shake your opponents hand when you win (well not currently of course).
councillor Sheila Oakes, who is currently mayor of Heanor in Derbyshire, saying: 'Sorry he completely deserves this and he is one of the worst PM's we've ever had.'
Haters got to hate eh
I don’t like Johnson. Or Cummings. Or Corbyn. Or Drakeford. Or Raab. Or Patel.
But I don’t wish death on them. One of them is seriously ill. I hope he recovers. Similarly, although he’s been silent for some time, I hope Cummings is making progress towards a full recovery.
Maybe I would for real, utter, unredeemable scumbags like Xi, or Kim, or Mugabe.
But none of them are even remotely in that class. None of them are out trying to cause deaths, or seize power illegally, or enrich themselves at the expense of the British people.
Anyone who thinks otherwise is frankly not worth listening to.
I agree. I raised a similar point during the election when a minority of our more right wing posters were expressing excessive joy and pleasure if, as happened, some of their opponents lost. It wasn't the pleasure of winning (which of course one should enjoy) but it was the expressed pleasure of an opponent losing. Of course you celebrate your victory, but have sympathy for those that lose.
I remember when Stephen Twigg won I was very pleased for him and simultaneously sorry for Michael Portillo, yet I supported neither.
Similarly in a sporting contest you enjoy your victory but feel for your opponent.
The only exception for me is, as you said a serious corrupt politician or a cheat in a sporting event.
That behaviour really isn't limited to one wing of politics. See Sturgeon's reaction, for example.
Absolutely.
I wasn't making a political biased point. It is just what happened and that I called out at the time. I would have done the same if the boot was on the other foot as it will be. It is the individuals (whether right left or centre) not the parties.
Agree re Sturgeon. It was unpleasant.
I couldn't disagree more. Sturgeon was entirely appropriate to celebrate winning a seat, let alone winning such a high profile scalp.
Suggesting it is inappropriate to celebrate gaining a seat because an opposition has lost it is as utterly facetious as claiming it is inappropriate for a striker to celebrate scoring a goal because an opposition has conceded it.
I agree. Her side win and she celebrated, it wasn't even particularly gloating.
But isn't celebrating beating Jo Swinson a bit like celebrating scoring a goal against a kid with cerebral palsy?
In terms of "party with most seats", yes. Knocking her off her own seat was still an accomplishment - only seat the LDs lost all night, wasn't it?
No, the LDs lost quite a few seats.
Tom Brake, who survived 2015 and 2017 lost in South West London. North Norfolk was lost too. As was the Welsh seat won in the by-election.
Basically, the LDs have now lost *all* but Orkney of the seats they won at their nadir in 2015.
I don't believe in prayer but it'd be better to pray for the victims of paedophile priests and repentance for those who helped cover it up.
In this case though Cardinal Pell was found not guilty by the High court of Australia, hence I assume the tweet
They quashed the sentence because they said there was an element of doubt, yes.
The only response that vile organisation should have is to apologise profusely for covering up decades of paedophilic abuse, including possibly Pell's. Not claim people are out to get them.
Pell was found not guily, end of conversation. He is as entitled to be considered an innocent man as Salmond is
Yes and he shouldn't be in jail.
But the Catholic Church remains a vile organisation whose only role on the matter should be profoundly apologising for covering up paedophilic abusers.
Half the foodbanks in the world are provided by the Catholic church and much of the great art and architecture and many of the schools and hospitals were also created by the Catholic church.
Pell was acquitted on appeal, if he was it suggests other accused may be too, apologies where guilty verdicts are given, certainly not where allegations are proven unfounded
Oh wow, the vastly wealthy and corrupt Catholic Church has provided some charity out of its vast golden fortune? Oh good for them, that makes covering up decades of paedophilia and hoarding golden treasuries perfectly reasonable - or not!
The allegations were not proven "unfounded". They were deemed not "proven beyond a reasonable doubt" there's a difference.
Absolutely. This isn't (certainly at the moment) a Carl Beech situation of a provably malicious allegation, and it seems unlikely the accusers will face charges.
This is common in rape cases, particularly date rape where there is no issue over the identity of the man. No conviction is forthcoming, but no grounds to pursue the alleged victim either. That's sad - both the victim and acquitted defendant inevitably carry around the stain of doubt, and the wronged party (whoever it is) never feels they have got justice and closure. But it is what it is - we are in the wide territory of reasonable doubt, with no prospect of ever saying definitively who is telling the truth.
Him posting it now when it's so out of date almost seems irresponsible. Trying to propagate a view that it is nothing to worry about.
I wouldn’t say so, because he is using the latest data we have. What it does tell us is we are well under par so far this year, going into the hazardous last round
To me it shows three things:
1. The winter flu crisis in the NHS, at the prospect of which Labour and fellow travellers were salivating back in November/December, fortunately never happened. It was a relatively benign winter for England & Wales deaths.
2. We can be reasonably confident that there hasn't been a big pool of unreported Covid-19 deaths, hidden in the figures for other deaths because they weren't recognised at the time.
3. But, as we know from other statistics, the Covid-19 death toll is beginning to show through in the last couple of weeks of that graph.
councillor Sheila Oakes, who is currently mayor of Heanor in Derbyshire, saying: 'Sorry he completely deserves this and he is one of the worst PM's we've ever had.'
Haters got to hate eh
I don’t like Johnson. Or Cummings. Or Corbyn. Or Drakeford. Or Raab. Or Patel.
But I don’t wish death on them. One of them is seriously ill. I hope he recovers. Similarly, although he’s been silent for some time, I hope Cummings is making progress towards a full recovery.
Maybe I would for real, utter, unredeemable scumbags like Xi, or Kim, or Mugabe.
But none of them are even remotely in that class. None of them are out trying to cause deaths, or seize power illegally, or enrich themselves at the expense of the British people.
Anyone who thinks otherwise is frankly not worth listening to.
I agree. I raised a similar point during the election when a minority of our more right wing posters were expressing excessive joy and pleasure if, as happened, some of their opponents lost. It wasn't the pleasure of winning (which of course one should enjoy) but it was the expressed pleasure of an opponent losing. Of course you celebrate your victory, but have sympathy for those that lose.
I remember when Stephen Twigg won I was very pleased for him and simultaneously sorry for Michael Portillo, yet I supported neither.
Similarly in a sporting contest you enjoy your victory but feel for your opponent.
The only exception for me is, as you said a serious corrupt politician or a cheat in a sporting event.
That behaviour really isn't limited to one wing of politics. See Sturgeon's reaction, for example.
Absolutely.
I wasn't making a political biased point. It is just what happened and that I called out at the time. I would have done the same if the boot was on the other foot as it will be. It is the individuals (whether right left or centre) not the parties.
Agree re Sturgeon. It was unpleasant.
I couldn't disagree more. Sturgeon was entirely appropriate to celebrate winning a seat, let alone winning such a high profile scalp.
Suggesting it is inappropriate to celebrate gaining a seat because an opposition has lost it is as utterly facetious as claiming it is inappropriate for a striker to celebrate scoring a goal because an opposition has conceded it.
I agree. Her side win and she celebrated, it wasn't even particularly gloating.
But isn't celebrating beating Jo Swinson a bit like celebrating scoring a goal against a kid with cerebral palsy?
In terms of "party with most seats", yes. Knocking her off her own seat was still an accomplishment - only seat the LDs lost all night, wasn't it?
No, the LDs lost quite a few seats.
Tom Brake, who survived 2015 and 2017 lost in South West London. North Norfolk was lost too. As was the Welsh seat won in the by-election.
Basically, the LDs have now lost *all* but Orkney of the seats they won at their nadir in 2015.
Which is quite extraordinary.
Also Westmoreland narrowly.
Which is probably as dependent upon Farron's personal vote as North Norfolk was on Lamb's.
As Anton Lesser is the voice of Thomas Cromwell, played Thomas Moore in the tv series and is also the voice of Shardlake he has become the sound of Tudor lawyer as much as Brian Glover became the image of rough bald-head northerner.
His Qyburn in Game of Thrones wasn't too much of a shift from a Tudor lawyer either.
councillor Sheila Oakes, who is currently mayor of Heanor in Derbyshire, saying: 'Sorry he completely deserves this and he is one of the worst PM's we've ever had.'
Haters got to hate eh
I don’t like Johnson. Or Cummings. Or Corbyn. Or Drakeford. Or Raab. Or Patel.
But I don’t wish death on them. One of them is seriously ill. I hope he recovers. Similarly, although he’s been silent for some time, I hope Cummings is making progress towards a full recovery.
Maybe I would for real, utter, unredeemable scumbags like Xi, or Kim, or Mugabe.
But none of them are even remotely in that class. None of them are out trying to cause deaths, or seize power illegally, or enrich themselves at the expense of the British people.
Anyone who thinks otherwise is frankly not worth listening to.
I agree. I raised a similar point during the election when a minority of our more right wing posters were expressing excessive joy and pleasure if, as happened, some of their opponents lost. It wasn't the pleasure of winning (which of course one should enjoy) but it was the expressed pleasure of an opponent losing. Of course you celebrate your victory, but have sympathy for those that lose.
I remember when Stephen Twigg won I was very pleased for him and simultaneously sorry for Michael Portillo, yet I supported neither.
Similarly in a sporting contest you enjoy your victory but feel for your opponent.
The only exception for me is, as you said a serious corrupt politician or a cheat in a sporting event.
That behaviour really isn't limited to one wing of politics. See Sturgeon's reaction, for example.
Absolutely.
I wasn't making a political biased point. It is just what happened and that I called out at the time. I would have done the same if the boot was on the other foot as it will be. It is the individuals (whether right left or centre) not the parties.
Agree re Sturgeon. It was unpleasant.
I couldn't disagree more. Sturgeon was entirely appropriate to celebrate winning a seat, let alone winning such a high profile scalp.
Suggesting it is inappropriate to celebrate gaining a seat because an opposition has lost it is as utterly facetious as claiming it is inappropriate for a striker to celebrate scoring a goal because an opposition has conceded it.
I agree. Her side win and she celebrated, it wasn't even particularly gloating.
But isn't celebrating beating Jo Swinson a bit like celebrating scoring a goal against a kid with cerebral palsy?
In terms of "party with most seats", yes. Knocking her off her own seat was still an accomplishment - only seat the LDs lost all night, wasn't it?
No, the LDs lost quite a few seats.
Tom Brake, who survived 2015 and 2017 lost in South West London. North Norfolk was lost too. As was the Welsh seat won in the by-election.
Basically, the LDs have now lost *all* but Orkney of the seats they won at their nadir in 2015.
Which is quite extraordinary.
The LibDem challenge more than anything will be for a voice. In this new world we are emerging into the binary squeeze will be worse than ever. Starmer a visibly stronger leader than Davey, no LD leadership contest until summer 2021 and no obvious outstanding leader in the wings, its going to be a challenge to be relevant, never mind heard...
He was also a Newspaper correspondent in Sudan and South Africa where he became a POW and escaped from a Boer internment camp.
Yes, I know, I know. It was one of the great lives. Not saying otherwise. In fact it's hard to think of anybody else in modern history who combined such a thirst for action with so many intellectual pursuits, and top level politics, over such a prolonged period. Castro maybe?
Churchill was shot at on four continents and won a Nobel Prize. As someone famous said, he was wrong about many things but right about the one thing that really mattered.
councillor Sheila Oakes, who is currently mayor of Heanor in Derbyshire, saying: 'Sorry he completely deserves this and he is one of the worst PM's we've ever had.'
Haters got to hate eh
I don’t like Johnson. Or Cummings. Or Corbyn. Or Drakeford. Or Raab. Or Patel.
But I don’t wish death on them. One of them is seriously ill. I hope he recovers. Similarly, although he’s been silent for some time, I hope Cummings is making progress towards a full recovery.
Maybe I would for real, utter, unredeemable scumbags like Xi, or Kim, or Mugabe.
But none of them are even remotely in that class. None of them are out trying to cause deaths, or seize power illegally, or enrich themselves at the expense of the British people.
Anyone who thinks otherwise is frankly not worth listening to.
I agree. I raised a similar point during the election when a minority of our more right wing posters were expressing excessive joy and pleasure if, as happened, some of their opponents lost. It wasn't the pleasure of winning (which of course one should enjoy) but it was the expressed pleasure of an opponent losing. Of course you celebrate your victory, but have sympathy for those that lose.
I remember when Stephen Twigg won I was very pleased for him and simultaneously sorry for Michael Portillo, yet I supported neither.
Similarly in a sporting contest you enjoy your victory but feel for your opponent.
The only exception for me is, as you said a serious corrupt politician or a cheat in a sporting event.
That behaviour really isn't limited to one wing of politics. See Sturgeon's reaction, for example.
Absolutely.
I wasn't making a political biased point. It is just what happened and that I called out at the time. I would have done the same if the boot was on the other foot as it will be. It is the individuals (whether right left or centre) not the parties.
Agree re Sturgeon. It was unpleasant.
I couldn't disagree more. Sturgeon was entirely appropriate to celebrate winning a seat, let alone winning such a high profile scalp.
Suggesting it is inappropriate to celebrate gaining a seat because an opposition has lost it is as utterly facetious as claiming it is inappropriate for a striker to celebrate scoring a goal because an opposition has conceded it.
I agree. Her side win and she celebrated, it wasn't even particularly gloating.
But isn't celebrating beating Jo Swinson a bit like celebrating scoring a goal against a kid with cerebral palsy?
In terms of "party with most seats", yes. Knocking her off her own seat was still an accomplishment - only seat the LDs lost all night, wasn't it?
No, the LDs lost quite a few seats.
Tom Brake, who survived 2015 and 2017 lost in South West London. North Norfolk was lost too. As was the Welsh seat won in the by-election.
Basically, the LDs have now lost *all* but Orkney of the seats they won at their nadir in 2015.
councillor Sheila Oakes, who is currently mayor of Heanor in Derbyshire, saying: 'Sorry he completely deserves this and he is one of the worst PM's we've ever had.'
Haters got to hate eh
I don’t like Johnson. Or Cummings. Or Corbyn. Or Drakeford. Or Raab. Or Patel.
But I don’t wish death on them. One of them is seriously ill. I hope he recovers. Similarly, although he’s been silent for some time, I hope Cummings is making progress towards a full recovery.
Maybe I would for real, utter, unredeemable scumbags like Xi, or Kim, or Mugabe.
But none of them are even remotely in that class. None of them are out trying to cause deaths, or seize power illegally, or enrich themselves at the expense of the British people.
Anyone who thinks otherwise is frankly not worth listening to.
I agree. I raised a similar point during the election when a minority of our more right wing posters were expressing excessive joy and pleasure if, as happened, some of their opponents lost. It wasn't the pleasure of winning (which of course one should enjoy) but it was the expressed pleasure of an opponent losing. Of course you celebrate your victory, but have sympathy for those that lose.
I remember when Stephen Twigg won I was very pleased for him and simultaneously sorry for Michael Portillo, yet I supported neither.
Similarly in a sporting contest you enjoy your victory but feel for your opponent.
The only exception for me is, as you said a serious corrupt politician or a cheat in a sporting event.
That behaviour really isn't limited to one wing of politics. See Sturgeon's reaction, for example.
Absolutely.
I wasn't making a political biased point. It is just what happened and that I called out at the time. I would have done the same if the boot was on the other foot as it will be. It is the individuals (whether right left or centre) not the parties.
Agree re Sturgeon. It was unpleasant.
I couldn't disagree more. Sturgeon was entirely appropriate to celebrate winning a seat, let alone winning such a high profile scalp.
Suggesting it is inappropriate to celebrate gaining a seat because an opposition has lost it is as utterly facetious as claiming it is inappropriate for a striker to celebrate scoring a goal because an opposition has conceded it.
I agree. Her side win and she celebrated, it wasn't even particularly gloating.
But isn't celebrating beating Jo Swinson a bit like celebrating scoring a goal against a kid with cerebral palsy?
In terms of "party with most seats", yes. Knocking her off her own seat was still an accomplishment - only seat the LDs lost all night, wasn't it?
No, the LDs lost quite a few seats.
Tom Brake, who survived 2015 and 2017 lost in South West London. North Norfolk was lost too. As was the Welsh seat won in the by-election.
Basically, the LDs have now lost *all* but Orkney of the seats they won at their nadir in 2015.
Which is quite extraordinary.
Also Westmoreland narrowly.
Which is probably as dependent upon Farron's personal vote as North Norfolk was on Lamb's.
The LibDems also lost Eastbourne in 2019.
That's right.
I felt rather sorry for the Eastbourne chap. He resigned the LD whip to support Mrs May's deal because it was the right thing to respect the referendum vote.
I don't believe in prayer but it'd be better to pray for the victims of paedophile priests and repentance for those who helped cover it up.
In this case though Cardinal Pell was found not guilty by the High court of Australia, hence I assume the tweet
They quashed the sentence because they said there was an element of doubt, yes.
The only response that vile organisation should have is to apologise profusely for covering up decades of paedophilic abuse, including possibly Pell's. Not claim people are out to get them.
Pell was found not guily, end of conversation. He is as entitled to be considered an innocent man as Salmond is
Yes and he shouldn't be in jail.
But the Catholic Church remains a vile organisation whose only role on the matter should be profoundly apologising for covering up paedophilic abusers.
Half the foodbanks in the world are provided by the Catholic church and much of the great art and architecture and many of the schools and hospitals were also created by the Catholic church.
Pell was acquitted on appeal, if he was it suggests other accused may be too, apologies where guilty verdicts are given, certainly not where allegations are proven unfounded
Oh wow, the vastly wealthy and corrupt Catholic Church has provided some charity out of its vast golden fortune? Oh good for them, that makes covering up decades of paedophilia and hoarding golden treasuries perfectly reasonable - or not!
The allegations were not proven "unfounded". They were deemed not "proven beyond a reasonable doubt" there's a difference.
Philip Thompson reveals another of his pathetic prejudices and populist standpoints. You really are a sad little hate filled pipsqueak with little to say of importance on anything. There is a lot to criticise the Roman Catholic church for, and the paedophilia scandal was and is very shocking, but I guess you would still take the same type of prejudicial position even if it had never happened. It is just another excuse for people of your unthinking mindset. As a lapsed Catholic of Irish decent I can smell your two brain celled anti-Catholicism in the same way a Jew can tell a racist trying to justify their anti-Semitism. Your nasty inherited hatred has been a feature in this country for far too long. Right minded people need to call it out for what it is.
Churchill wanted to be on the landing grounds at Normandy but the King told him "no".
Yes. Sort of guy he was.
But the King did the right thing. Made no sense to risk that.
As I recall it, the only way the king talked him out of it was by saying that he (the king) would also be on the beaches. And would only agree not to be on the beaches if Churchill also agreed not to be on the beaches.
Him posting it now when it's so out of date almost seems irresponsible. Trying to propagate a view that it is nothing to worry about.
I wouldn’t say so, because he is using the latest data we have. What it does tell us is we are well under par so far this year, going into the hazardous last round
To me it shows three things:
1. The winter flu crisis in the NHS, at the prospect of which Labour and fellow travellers were salivating back in November/December, fortunately never happened. It was a relatively benign winter for England & Wales deaths.
2. We can be reasonably confident that there hasn't been a big pool of unreported Covid-19 deaths, hidden in the figures for other deaths because they weren't recognised at the time.
3. But, as we know from other statistics, the Covid-19 death toll is beginning to show through in the last couple of weeks of that graph.
A few thousand more flu deaths over the winter would have resulted in fewer covid deaths now.
Likewise covid deaths now will likely see a reduction in flu deaths next winter.
Him posting it now when it's so out of date almost seems irresponsible. Trying to propagate a view that it is nothing to worry about.
I wouldn’t say so, because he is using the latest data we have. What it does tell us is we are well under par so far this year, going into the hazardous last round
To me it shows three things:
1. The winter flu crisis in the NHS, at the prospect of which Labour and fellow travellers were salivating back in November/December, fortunately never happened. It was a relatively benign winter for England & Wales deaths.
2. We can be reasonably confident that there hasn't been a big pool of unreported Covid-19 deaths, hidden in the figures for other deaths because they weren't recognised at the time.
3. But, as we know from other statistics, the Covid-19 death toll is beginning to show through in the last couple of weeks of that graph.
Yes, I’d say so too. I think Italy has a similar pattern
He was also a Newspaper correspondent in Sudan and South Africa where he became a POW and escaped from a Boer internment camp.
Yes, I know, I know. It was one of the great lives. Not saying otherwise. In fact it's hard to think of anybody else in modern history who combined such a thirst for action with so many intellectual pursuits, and top level politics, over such a prolonged period. Castro maybe?
Churchill was shot at on four continents and won a Nobel Prize. As someone famous said, he was wrong about many things but right about the one thing that really mattered.
I don't believe in prayer but it'd be better to pray for the victims of paedophile priests and repentance for those who helped cover it up.
In this case though Cardinal Pell was found not guilty by the High court of Australia, hence I assume the tweet
They quashed the sentence because they said there was an element of doubt, yes.
The only response that vile organisation should have is to apologise profusely for covering up decades of paedophilic abuse, including possibly Pell's. Not claim people are out to get them.
Pell was found not guily, end of conversation. He is as entitled to be considered an innocent man as Salmond is
Yes and he shouldn't be in jail.
But the Catholic Church remains a vile organisation whose only role on the matter should be profoundly apologising for covering up paedophilic abusers.
Half the foodbanks in the world are provided by the Catholic church and much of the great art and architecture and many of the schools and hospitals were also created by the Catholic church.
Pell was acquitted on appeal, if he was it suggests other accused may be too, apologies where guilty verdicts are given, certainly not where allegations are proven unfounded
Oh wow, the vastly wealthy and corrupt Catholic Church has provided some charity out of its vast golden fortune? Oh good for them, that makes covering up decades of paedophilia and hoarding golden treasuries perfectly reasonable - or not!
The allegations were not proven "unfounded". They were deemed not "proven beyond a reasonable doubt" there's a difference.
Philip Thompson reveals another of his pathetic prejudices and populist standpoints. You really are a sad little hate filled pipsqueak with little to say of importance on anything. There is a lot to criticise the Roman Catholic church for, and the paedophilia scandal was and is very shocking, but I guess you would still take the same type of prejudicial position even if it had never happened. It is just another excuse for people of your unthinking mindset. As a lapsed Catholic of Irish decent I can smell your two brain celled anti-Catholicism in the same way a Jew can tell a racist trying to justify their anti-Semitism. Your nasty inherited hatred has been a feature in this country for far too long. Right minded people need to call it out for what it is.
I suspect you're barking up the wrong tree and Philip is an equal opportunities opponent of organised religion.
Afternoon Ydoethur, lazy git, some of us have to work. I am stuck on webex, and spreadsheets.
@ydoethur might need to get back to work soon. The boffins are having second thoughts on school closures.
Countries like the UK that have closed schools to help stop the spread of coronavirus should ask hard questions about whether this is now the right policy, says one team of scientists.
The University College London team says keeping pupils off has little impact, even with other lockdown measures.
But a scientist whose work has informed the UK strategy insists school closures play an important role.
Totally O/t, but I've had an interesting email from a local wine merchant, from whom I've bought before, and found useful. Case of 12 random wines, delivered to the door. Guaranteed to be 'worth'......well at least retail for, £150, cost £99. Boxes 'may' include some sherries and liqueurs'.
Totally O/t, but I've had an interesting email from a local wine merchant, from whom I've bought before, and found useful. Case of 12 random wines, delivered to the door. Guaranteed to be 'worth'......well at least retail for, £150, cost £99. Boxes 'may' include some sherries and liqueurs'.
Him posting it now when it's so out of date almost seems irresponsible. Trying to propagate a view that it is nothing to worry about.
I wouldn’t say so, because he is using the latest data we have. What it does tell us is we are well under par so far this year, going into the hazardous last round
To me it shows three things:
1. The winter flu crisis in the NHS, at the prospect of which Labour and fellow travellers were salivating back in November/December, fortunately never happened. It was a relatively benign winter for England & Wales deaths.
2. We can be reasonably confident that there hasn't been a big pool of unreported Covid-19 deaths, hidden in the figures for other deaths because they weren't recognised at the time.
3. But, as we know from other statistics, the Covid-19 death toll is beginning to show through in the last couple of weeks of that graph.
Yes, I’d say so too. I think Italy has a similar pattern
Totally O/t, but I've had an interesting email from a local wine merchant, from whom I've bought before, and found useful. Case of 12 random wines, delivered to the door. Guaranteed to be 'worth'......well at least retail for, £150, cost £99. Boxes 'may' include some sherries and liqueurs'.
Could help to pass the time ......
Not a surprise. The foodservice sector has largely shut down - the merchants who used to supply in bulk to restaurants / hotels etc will find themselves with a load of cash tied up in stock and no customers to buy it. Reaching out to consumers who might* feel the need to drink more makes sense...
As I recall it, the only way the king talked him out of it was by saying that he (the king) would also be on the beaches. And would only agree not to be on the beaches if Churchill also agreed not to be on the beaches.
That is great and one hopes true. But it does have an apocryphal feel to it.
I don't believe in prayer but it'd be better to pray for the victims of paedophile priests and repentance for those who helped cover it up.
In this case though Cardinal Pell was found not guilty by the High court of Australia, hence I assume the tweet
They quashed the sentence because they said there was an element of doubt, yes.
The only response that vile organisation should have is to apologise profusely for covering up decades of paedophilic abuse, including possibly Pell's. Not claim people are out to get them.
Pell was found not guily, end of conversation. He is as entitled to be considered an innocent man as Salmond is
Yes and he shouldn't be in jail.
But the Catholic Church remains a vile organisation whose only role on the matter should be profoundly apologising for covering up paedophilic abusers.
Half the foodbanks in the world are provided by the Catholic church and much of the great art and architecture and many of the schools and hospitals were also created by the Catholic church.
Pell was acquitted on appeal, if he was it suggests other accused may be too, apologies where guilty verdicts are given, certainly not where allegations are proven unfounded
Oh wow, the vastly wealthy and corrupt Catholic Church has provided some charity out of its vast golden fortune? Oh good for them, that makes covering up decades of paedophilia and hoarding golden treasuries perfectly reasonable - or not!
The allegations were not proven "unfounded". They were deemed not "proven beyond a reasonable doubt" there's a difference.
Philip Thompson reveals another of his pathetic prejudices and populist standpoints. You really are a sad little hate filled pipsqueak with little to say of importance on anything. There is a lot to criticise the Roman Catholic church for, and the paedophilia scandal was and is very shocking, but I guess you would still take the same type of prejudicial position even if it had never happened. It is just another excuse for people of your unthinking mindset. As a lapsed Catholic of Irish decent I can smell your two brain celled anti-Catholicism in the same way a Jew can tell a racist trying to justify their anti-Semitism. Your nasty inherited hatred has been a feature in this country for far too long. Right minded people need to call it out for what it is.
Oh go cry me a river.
We wouldn't even be discussing this if it wasn't for the fact the Pope was basically gloating about doubt being found in a Cardinal's conviction, rather than being restrained and saying thought were with the victims.
If I don't like the Roman Catholic Church or organised religion in general its not a "prejudice" it is because in your own words "there is a lot to criticise the Roman Catholic Church for" including but not limited to covering up the scandal of organised paedophilia within its institution.
No institution is beyond criticism and the Church deserves any scorn heaped upon it - and the Pontifex is only encouraging it with his words.
Government policy for locked down care homes to take new people from anywhere including out virus hotbed of hospitals without any testing on them, am I the only person to think that’s insane?
councillor Sheila Oakes, who is currently mayor of Heanor in Derbyshire, saying: 'Sorry he completely deserves this and he is one of the worst PM's we've ever had.'
Haters got to hate eh
I don’t like Johnson. Or Cummings. Or Corbyn. Or Drakeford. Or Raab. Or Patel.
But I don’t wish death on them. One of them is seriously ill. I hope he recovers. Similarly, although he’s been silent for some time, I hope Cummings is making progress towards a full recovery.
Maybe I would for real, utter, unredeemable scumbags like Xi, or Kim, or Mugabe.
But none of them are even remotely in that class. None of them are out trying to cause deaths, or seize power illegally, or enrich themselves at the expense of the British people.
Anyone who thinks otherwise is frankly not worth listening to.
I agree. I raised a similar point during the election when a minority of our more right wing posters were expressing excessive joy and pleasure if, as happened, some of their opponents lost. It wasn't the pleasure of winning (which of course one should enjoy) but it was the expressed pleasure of an opponent losing. Of course you celebrate your victory, but have sympathy for those that lose.
I remember when Stephen Twigg won I was very pleased for him and simultaneously sorry for Michael Portillo, yet I supported neither.
Similarly in a sporting contest you enjoy your victory but feel for your opponent.
The only exception for me is, as you said a serious corrupt politician or a cheat in a sporting event.
That behaviour really isn't limited to one wing of politics. See Sturgeon's reaction, for example.
Absolutely.
I wasn't making a political biased point. It is just what happened and that I called out at the time. I would have done the same if the boot was on the other foot as it will be. It is the individuals (whether right left or centre) not the parties.
Agree re Sturgeon. It was unpleasant.
I couldn't disagree more. Sturgeon was entirely appropriate to celebrate winning a seat, let alone winning such a high profile scalp.
Suggesting it is inappropriate to celebrate gaining a seat because an opposition has lost it is as utterly facetious as claiming it is inappropriate for a striker to celebrate scoring a goal because an opposition has conceded it.
Philip that is not what I said (probably need to look at my earlier post). She should celebrate gaining a seat and in fairness to Sturgeon she was possibly caught off guard and it isn't obvious what she is celebrating. It didn't look good though.
Re the football. Of course you celebrate scoring the goal. I said that, but after your victory you shake hands with your opponent and commiserate with them.
You don't go up to them and and rub it in do you. At least a civilised person doesn't. That is all I am saying.
Enjoy and celebrate your vistory. Don't enjoy your opponents defeat.
I disagree though, it did look good - it looked human. She's not a robot and she genuinely celebrated a victory: Good for her!
She didn't rub it in anyone's face. She may have commisserated with Swinson afterwards. She'd almost certainly shake hands with her. But the video clip was her celebrating her own victory announced in that moment - good on her for celebrating her own parties victory being announced and her own colleague winning a seat.
Why shouldn't she celebrate that in that instant even if she's human with Swinson afterwards.
Are you saying Sturgeon was only sure of victory for the SNP at exactly the same moment that Swinson lost her seat to the SNP (not to Sturgeon herself). By that time SNP victory was certain.
I think the successful SNP candidate was a young female and Nicola was delighted on her account. It was fairly unexpected. Don't think she was necessarily celebrating Jo Swinson's downfall.
Totally O/t, but I've had an interesting email from a local wine merchant, from whom I've bought before, and found useful. Case of 12 random wines, delivered to the door. Guaranteed to be 'worth'......well at least retail for, £150, cost £99. Boxes 'may' include some sherries and liqueurs'.
Could help to pass the time ......
Not a surprise. The foodservice sector has largely shut down - the merchants who used to supply in bulk to restaurants / hotels etc will find themselves with a load of cash tied up in stock and no customers to buy it. Reaching out to consumers who might* feel the need to drink more makes sense...
This firm does indeed do .... did ...... a lot of business with local restaurants. However, if we can take advantage, why not? Rather like the home tutors who are now working remotely, such as the piano tutor I heard of the other day.
Norway is to lift some of its restrictions imposed to curb the spread of coronavirus, its prime minister has told a press conference.
“Together we have taken control of the virus, therefore we can open up society little by little,” Erna Solberg was quoted as saying by Reuters.
My Norwegian is rusty, but a reader has emailed to say that nurseries and daycare centres will reopen from 20 April, and primary schools and the last year of sixth form will reopen from 27 April. Restrictions on visiting second homes will be lifted from 20 April, the same date that one-on-one health services will begin to reopen.
It means Norway joins Denmark and Austria in making plans to emerge from the lockdown conditions that have been imposed by governments across Europe
I don't believe in prayer but it'd be better to pray for the victims of paedophile priests and repentance for those who helped cover it up.
In this case though Cardinal Pell was found not guilty by the High court of Australia, hence I assume the tweet
They quashed the sentence because they said there was an element of doubt, yes.
The only response that vile organisation should have is to apologise profusely for covering up decades of paedophilic abuse, including possibly Pell's. Not claim people are out to get them.
Pell was found not guily, end of conversation. He is as entitled to be considered an innocent man as Salmond is
Yes and he shouldn't be in jail.
But the Catholic Church remains a vile organisation whose only role on the matter should be profoundly apologising for covering up paedophilic abusers.
Half the foodbanks in the world are provided by the Catholic church and much of the great art and architecture and many of the schools and hospitals were also created by the Catholic church.
Pell was acquitted on appeal, if he was it suggests other accused may be too, apologies where guilty verdicts are given, certainly not where allegations are proven unfounded
Oh wow, the vastly wealthy and corrupt Catholic Church has provided some charity out of its vast golden fortune? Oh good for them, that makes covering up decades of paedophilia and hoarding golden treasuries perfectly reasonable - or not!
The allegations were not proven "unfounded". They were deemed not "proven beyond a reasonable doubt" there's a difference.
Philip Thompson reveals another of his pathetic prejudices and populist standpoints. You really are a sad little hate filled pipsqueak with little to say of importance on anything. There is a lot to criticise the Roman Catholic church for, and the paedophilia scandal was and is very shocking, but I guess you would still take the same type of prejudicial position even if it had never happened. It is just another excuse for people of your unthinking mindset. As a lapsed Catholic of Irish decent I can smell your two brain celled anti-Catholicism in the same way a Jew can tell a racist trying to justify their anti-Semitism. Your nasty inherited hatred has been a feature in this country for far too long. Right minded people need to call it out for what it is.
I suspect you're barking up the wrong tree and Philip is an equal opportunities opponent of organised religion.
Churchill was shot at on four continents and won a Nobel Prize. As someone famous said, he was wrong about many things but right about the one thing that really mattered.
Very good epithet. Trying to think of somebody for whom the opposite would apply - right about so much but wrong about the one thing which really mattered.
He was also a Newspaper correspondent in Sudan and South Africa where he became a POW and escaped from a Boer internment camp.
Yes, I know, I know. It was one of the great lives. Not saying otherwise. In fact it's hard to think of anybody else in modern history who combined such a thirst for action with so many intellectual pursuits, and top level politics, over such a prolonged period. Castro maybe?
Churchill was shot at on four continents and won a Nobel Prize. As someone famous said, he was wrong about many things but right about the one thing that really mattered.
The US are not exactly providing that much inspiration, are they?
Nobody is, I think that's the problem. It has allowed Chinese propaganda, aided and abetted by the WHO, to take over. Every country looks to its own, fairly, but forgets that there is a hostile player in the arena and they need to be countered.
Afternoon Ydoethur, lazy git, some of us have to work. I am stuck on webex, and spreadsheets.
@ydoethur might need to get back to work soon. The boffins are having second thoughts on school closures.
Countries like the UK that have closed schools to help stop the spread of coronavirus should ask hard questions about whether this is now the right policy, says one team of scientists.
The University College London team says keeping pupils off has little impact, even with other lockdown measures.
But a scientist whose work has informed the UK strategy insists school closures play an important role.
Or rather, third thoughts, given the initial plan was to keep schools open.
They then go on to suggest measures that are completely impossible for anything else except, maybe, A Level teaching.
Students stay 2 metres apart? Has he ever been inside a school? I do some of my teaching in the Early Years and try getting them to do it? It'd be like trying to knit fog. Same for anything up to and through GCSE, it just isn't based on reality. Practical subjects gone, they aren't possible either. Computer rooms, gone because only half a class can fit inside them. Corridors, god, corridors. I mean it's insane but, then again, most suggestions about school have been made by people who never set foot inside one, so they probably don't even realise.
He was also a Newspaper correspondent in Sudan and South Africa where he became a POW and escaped from a Boer internment camp.
Yes, I know, I know. It was one of the great lives. Not saying otherwise. In fact it's hard to think of anybody else in modern history who combined such a thirst for action with so many intellectual pursuits, and top level politics, over such a prolonged period. Castro maybe?
Churchill was shot at on four continents and won a Nobel Prize. As someone famous said, he was wrong about many things but right about the one thing that really mattered.
I don't believe in prayer but it'd be better to pray for the victims of paedophile priests and repentance for those who helped cover it up.
In this case though Cardinal Pell was found not guilty by the High court of Australia, hence I assume the tweet
They quashed the sentence because they said there was an element of doubt, yes.
The only response that vile organisation should have is to apologise profusely for covering up decades of paedophilic abuse, including possibly Pell's. Not claim people are out to get them.
Pell was found not guily, end of conversation. He is as entitled to be considered an innocent man as Salmond is
Yes and he shouldn't be in jail.
But the Catholic Church remains a vile organisation whose only role on the matter should be profoundly apologising for covering up paedophilic abusers.
Half the foodbanks in the world are provided by the Catholic church and much of the great art and architecture and many of the schools and hospitals were also created by the Catholic church.
Pell was acquitted on appeal, if he was it suggests other accused may be too, apologies where guilty verdicts are given, certainly not where allegations are proven unfounded
Oh wow, the vastly wealthy and corrupt Catholic Church has provided some charity out of its vast golden fortune? Oh good for them, that makes covering up decades of paedophilia and hoarding golden treasuries perfectly reasonable - or not!
The allegations were not proven "unfounded". They were deemed not "proven beyond a reasonable doubt" there's a difference.
Philip Thompson reveals another of his pathetic prejudices and populist standpoints. You really are a sad little hate filled pipsqueak with little to say of importance on anything. There is a lot to criticise the Roman Catholic church for, and the paedophilia scandal was and is very shocking, but I guess you would still take the same type of prejudicial position even if it had never happened. It is just another excuse for people of your unthinking mindset. As a lapsed Catholic of Irish decent I can smell your two brain celled anti-Catholicism in the same way a Jew can tell a racist trying to justify their anti-Semitism. Your nasty inherited hatred has been a feature in this country for far too long. Right minded people need to call it out for what it is.
Oh go cry me a river.
We wouldn't even be discussing this if it wasn't for the fact the Pope was basically gloating about doubt being found in a Cardinal's conviction, rather than being restrained and saying thought were with the victims.
If I don't like the Roman Catholic Church or organised religion in general its not a "prejudice" it is because in your own words "there is a lot to criticise the Roman Catholic Church for" including but not limited to covering up the scandal of organised paedophilia within its institution.
No institution is beyond criticism and the Church deserves any scorn heaped upon it - and the Pontifex is only encouraging it with his words.
Nope, you are just a very nasty prejudiced little man with little to do other than rant those prejudices on here (where you seem to be a sad permanent resident). You are no better than an anti-Semite. Anti-Semitism has a slightly longer history in this country than anti-Catholicism (particularly anti-Irish/anti-Catholicism, but both bear very similar hallmarks. The main hallmark is the general stupidity of the people that hold such prejudices, and you are a prime example. Well, I don't know about you, saddo, but now I have had my rant, I will do some work. Keep up the good work in showing everyone your general ignorance of anything that requires analysis and subtle nuance.
As I recall it, the only way the king talked him out of it was by saying that he (the king) would also be on the beaches. And would only agree not to be on the beaches if Churchill also agreed not to be on the beaches.
That is great and one hopes true. But it does have an apocryphal feel to it.
It's a while since I read them, but I believe Alanbrooke refers to it in several entries in his diaries. Indeed quite a lot of entries involve his exasperation at having to suppress C's more gung ho, not to say dumb headed, impulses.
The US are not exactly providing that much inspiration, are they?
BBC: Coronavirus: North-South divide ahead of key EU meeting
The coronavirus pandemic has exposed deep divides in Europe, with EU member states arguing over how to tackle the economic fallout. Italy and Spain have accused northern nations - led by Germany and the Netherlands - of not doing enough. Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez has even warned that if the EU fails to come up with an ambitious plan to help member states saddled with debt by the fight against coronavirus, the bloc could "fall apart". EU Council and Commission chiefs released a statement on Monday that said a "strong package is in the making". Eurozone finance ministers will hold a teleconference later on Tuesday. Italy, Spain, France and other EU states want to share out coronavirus-incurred debt in the form of "coronabonds" (or eurobonds) - mutualised debt that all EU nations help pay off. Some from these hard-hit nations have been angered by a perceived indifference from other EU states. Wealthier countries like Germany are not yet digging deeper into their pockets to help out poorer nations like Italy and Spain.
Public opinion Germany wants to set up an EU rescue fund and lend using mechanisms set up during the financial crisis of a decade ago. This week, a group of Italian mayors and other politicians bought a page in Germany's Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung newspaper to remind Germany that it was never made to pay back its debts after World War Two. Public opinion has also been shifting in Germany. Economists, politicians and commentators who once railed against mutualising eurozone debt to bail out Greece amid the last financial crisis are calling for exactly that to help Southern Europe deal with the coronavirus. Even the German tabloid Bild, that led the anti-Greece charge 10 years ago, is now calling for so-called coronabonds. The situation today is more like a natural disaster then a crisis sparked by risky lending, they argue.
Agreement emerging Finance ministers are likely to converge on three ways to prop up the economy - use of the European Stability Mechanism (ESM) bailout fund, the European Investment Fund and the European Commission’s short-time work scheme. “There is an agreement emerging on the first three options, but that is not enough,” French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire told journalists ahead of Tuesday’s meeting. Mr Le Maire wants a fund worth “several hundred billion euros” in joint borrowing to finance economic recovery. But Austria, Denmark, Finland and the Netherlands have refused to back joint borrowing, anxious that they could be liable for repaying the debts of member states in the south. The EU will likely agree on economic support through the usual channels, not through new coronabonds. "There is a lot of room for solidarity within the existing instruments and institutions," read a statement from EU Council and Commission chiefs on Monday. Source: BBC
I don't believe in prayer but it'd be better to pray for the victims of paedophile priests and repentance for those who helped cover it up.
In this case though Cardinal Pell was found not guilty by the High court of Australia, hence I assume the tweet
They quashed the sentence because they said there was an element of doubt, yes.
The only response that vile organisation should have is to apologise profusely for covering up decades of paedophilic abuse, including possibly Pell's. Not claim people are out to get them.
Pell was found not guily, end of conversation. He is as entitled to be considered an innocent man as Salmond is
Yes and he shouldn't be in jail.
But the Catholic Church remains a vile organisation whose only role on the matter should be profoundly apologising for covering up paedophilic abusers.
Half the foodbanks in the world are provided by the Catholic church and much of the great art and architecture and many of the schools and hospitals were also created by the Catholic church.
Pell was acquitted on appeal, if he was it suggests other accused may be too, apologies where guilty verdicts are given, certainly not where allegations are proven unfounded
Oh wow, the vastly wealthy and corrupt Catholic Church has provided some charity out of its vast golden fortune? Oh good for them, that makes covering up decades of paedophilia and hoarding golden treasuries perfectly reasonable - or not!
The allegations were not proven "unfounded". They were deemed not "proven beyond a reasonable doubt" there's a difference.
Philip Thompson reveals another of his pathetic prejudices and populist standpoints. You really are a sad little hate filled pipsqueak with little to say of importance on anything. There is a lot to criticise the Roman Catholic church for, and the paedophilia scandal was and is very shocking, but I guess you would still take the same type of prejudicial position even if it had never happened. It is just another excuse for people of your unthinking mindset. As a lapsed Catholic of Irish decent I can smell your two brain celled anti-Catholicism in the same way a Jew can tell a racist trying to justify their anti-Semitism. Your nasty inherited hatred has been a feature in this country for far too long. Right minded people need to call it out for what it is.
Oh go cry me a river.
We wouldn't even be discussing this if it wasn't for the fact the Pope was basically gloating about doubt being found in a Cardinal's conviction, rather than being restrained and saying thought were with the victims.
If I don't like the Roman Catholic Church or organised religion in general its not a "prejudice" it is because in your own words "there is a lot to criticise the Roman Catholic Church for" including but not limited to covering up the scandal of organised paedophilia within its institution.
No institution is beyond criticism and the Church deserves any scorn heaped upon it - and the Pontifex is only encouraging it with his words.
Nope, you are just a very nasty prejudiced little man with little to do other than rant those prejudices on here (where you seem to be a sad permanent resident). You are no better than an anti-Semite. Anti-Semitism has a slightly longer history in this country than anti-Catholicism (particularly anti-Irish/anti-Catholicism, but both bear very similar hallmarks. The main hallmark is the general stupidity of the people that hold such prejudices, and you are a prime example. Well, I don't know about you, saddo, but now I have had my rant, I will do some work. Keep up the good work in showing everyone your general ignorance of anything that requires analysis and subtle nuance.
No you are talking complete bullshit.
Anti-semitism is being against Jews because they are Jews regardless of anything else. It is racism pure and simple.
Being against the institution of the Roman Catholic Church because it is a vile organisation with a terrible history going back through centuries and up to the present day is a completely different matter.
I have no qualms with Catholics. I would not have a go at someone because they are Catholic. My opinion is on the Catholic Church itself not individuals.
Afternoon Ydoethur, lazy git, some of us have to work. I am stuck on webex, and spreadsheets.
@ydoethur might need to get back to work soon. The boffins are having second thoughts on school closures.
Countries like the UK that have closed schools to help stop the spread of coronavirus should ask hard questions about whether this is now the right policy, says one team of scientists.
The University College London team says keeping pupils off has little impact, even with other lockdown measures.
But a scientist whose work has informed the UK strategy insists school closures play an important role.
Or rather, third thoughts, given the initial plan was to keep schools open.
They then go on to suggest measures that are completely impossible for anything else except, maybe, A Level teaching.
Students stay 2 metres apart? Has he ever been inside a school? I do some of my teaching in the Early Years and try getting them to do it? It'd be like trying to knit fog. Same for anything up to and through GCSE, it just isn't based on reality. Practical subjects gone, they aren't possible either. Computer rooms, gone because only half a class can fit inside them. Corridors, god, corridors. I mean it's insane but, then again, most suggestions about school have been made by people who never set foot inside one, so they probably don't even realise.
The only way to keep children 2m apart (especially young ones) would be to encase them, individually, in those giant rolling inflatable ball things.
Mind you, that would solve the whole violence against teachers/accusations against teachers thing.
No I definitely wasn't supporting the Tories I was campaigning for the LDs and was celebrating myself that night at a party, but that moment was very moving for me both because of Twigg's win and Portillo's loss even though I supported neither.
It was one of the greatest nights of my life. I ended up naked in the garden with a bottle of brandy and an intense premonition that only good things would happen from this point on. It was the brandy, I now realize.
Government policy for locked down care homes to take new people from anywhere including out virus hotbed of hospitals without any testing on them, am I the only person to think that’s insane?
Churchill wanted to be on the landing grounds at Normandy but the King told him "no".
Yes. Sort of guy he was.
But the King did the right thing. Made no sense to risk that.
As I recall it, the only way the king talked him out of it was by saying that he (the king) would also be on the beaches. And would only agree not to be on the beaches if Churchill also agreed not to be on the beaches.
I think Antony Beevor tells it rather differently - what the King said was that there was no way *he* could be there despite being a naval officer, so it was unfair C should be.
Norway is to lift some of its restrictions imposed to curb the spread of coronavirus, its prime minister has told a press conference.
“Together we have taken control of the virus, therefore we can open up society little by little,” Erna Solberg was quoted as saying by Reuters.
My Norwegian is rusty, but a reader has emailed to say that nurseries and daycare centres will reopen from 20 April, and primary schools and the last year of sixth form will reopen from 27 April. Restrictions on visiting second homes will be lifted from 20 April, the same date that one-on-one health services will begin to reopen.
It means Norway joins Denmark and Austria in making plans to emerge from the lockdown conditions that have been imposed by governments across Europe
Norway and Denmark, looking at there close neighbor Sweden and realizing, their approach might on balance be better?
I don't believe in prayer but it'd be better to pray for the victims of paedophile priests and repentance for those who helped cover it up.
In this case though Cardinal Pell was found not guilty by the High court of Australia, hence I assume the tweet
They quashed the sentence because they said there was an element of doubt, yes.
The only response that vile organisation should have is to apologise profusely for covering up decades of paedophilic abuse, including possibly Pell's. Not claim people are out to get them.
Pell was found not guily, end of conversation. He is as entitled to be considered an innocent man as Salmond is
Yes and he shouldn't be in jail.
But the Catholic Church remains a vile organisation whose only role on the matter should be profoundly apologising for covering up paedophilic abusers.
Half the foodbanks in the world are provided by the Catholic church and much of the great art and architecture and many of the schools and hospitals were also created by the Catholic church.
Pell was acquitted on appeal, if he was it suggests other accused may be too, apologies where guilty verdicts are given, certainly not where allegations are proven unfounded
Oh wow, the vastly wealthy and corrupt Catholic Church has provided some charity out of its vast golden fortune? Oh good for them, that makes covering up decades of paedophilia and hoarding golden treasuries perfectly reasonable - or not!
The allegations were not proven "unfounded". They were deemed not "proven beyond a reasonable doubt" there's a difference.
Philip Thompson reveals another of his pathetic prejudices and populist standpoints. You really are a sad little hate filled pipsqueak with little to say of importance on anything. There is a lot to criticise the Roman Catholic church for, and the paedophilia scandal was and is very shocking, but I guess you would still take the same type of prejudicial position even if it had never happened. It is just another excuse for people of your unthinking mindset. As a lapsed Catholic of Irish decent I can smell your two brain celled anti-Catholicism in the same way a Jew can tell a racist trying to justify their anti-Semitism. Your nasty inherited hatred has been a feature in this country for far too long. Right minded people need to call it out for what it is.
Oh go cry me a river.
We wouldn't even be discussing this if it wasn't for the fact the Pope was basically gloating about doubt being found in a Cardinal's conviction, rather than being restrained and saying thought were with the victims.
If I don't like the Roman Catholic Church or organised religion in general its not a "prejudice" it is because in your own words "there is a lot to criticise the Roman Catholic Church for" including but not limited to covering up the scandal of organised paedophilia within its institution.
No institution is beyond criticism and the Church deserves any scorn heaped upon it - and the Pontifex is only encouraging it with his words.
Nope, you are just a very nasty prejudiced little man with little to do other than rant those prejudices on here (where you seem to be a sad permanent resident). You are no better than an anti-Semite. Anti-Semitism has a slightly longer history in this country than anti-Catholicism (particularly anti-Irish/anti-Catholicism, but both bear very similar hallmarks. The main hallmark is the general stupidity of the people that hold such prejudices, and you are a prime example. Well, I don't know about you, saddo, but now I have had my rant, I will do some work. Keep up the good work in showing everyone your general ignorance of anything that requires analysis and subtle nuance.
No you are talking complete bullshit.
Anti-semitism is being against Jews because they are Jews regardless of anything else. It is racism pure and simple.
Being against the institution of the Roman Catholic Church because it is a vile organisation with a terrible history going back through centuries and up to the present day is a completely different matter.
I have no qualms with Catholics. I would not have a go at someone because they are Catholic. My opinion is on the Catholic Church itself not individuals.
Though anti Semitism can also arguably include anti Israel sentiment
I don't believe in prayer but it'd be better to pray for the victims of paedophile priests and repentance for those who helped cover it up.
In this case though Cardinal Pell was found not guilty by the High court of Australia, hence I assume the tweet
They quashed the sentence because they said there was an element of doubt, yes.
The only response that vile organisation should have is to apologise profusely for covering up decades of paedophilic abuse, including possibly Pell's. Not claim people are out to get them.
Pell was found not guily, end of conversation. He is as entitled to be considered an innocent man as Salmond is
Yes and he shouldn't be in jail.
But the Catholic Church remains a vile organisation whose only role on the matter should be profoundly apologising for covering up paedophilic abusers.
Half the foodbanks in the world are provided by the Catholic church and much of the great art and architecture and many of the schools and hospitals were also created by the Catholic church.
Pell was acquitted on appeal, if he was it suggests other accused may be too, apologies where guilty verdicts are given, certainly not where allegations are proven unfounded
Oh wow, the vastly wealthy and corrupt Catholic Church has provided some charity out of its vast golden fortune? Oh good for them, that makes covering up decades of paedophilia and hoarding golden treasuries perfectly reasonable - or not!
The allegations were not proven "unfounded". They were deemed not "proven beyond a reasonable doubt" there's a difference.
Philip Thompson reveals another of his pathetic prejudices and populist standpoints. You really are a sad little hate filled pipsqueak with little to say of importance on anything. There is a lot to criticise the Roman Catholic church for, and the paedophilia scandal was and is very shocking, but I guess you would still take the same type of prejudicial position even if it had never happened. It is just another excuse for people of your unthinking mindset. As a lapsed Catholic of Irish decent I can smell your two brain celled anti-Catholicism in the same way a Jew can tell a racist trying to justify their anti-Semitism. Your nasty inherited hatred has been a feature in this country for far too long. Right minded people need to call it out for what it is.
Oh go cry me a river.
We wouldn't even be discussing this if it wasn't for the fact the Pope was basically gloating about doubt being found in a Cardinal's conviction, rather than being restrained and saying thought were with the victims.
If I don't like the Roman Catholic Church or organised religion in general its not a "prejudice" it is because in your own words "there is a lot to criticise the Roman Catholic Church for" including but not limited to covering up the scandal of organised paedophilia within its institution.
No institution is beyond criticism and the Church deserves any scorn heaped upon it - and the Pontifex is only encouraging it with his words.
Nope, you are just a very nasty prejudiced little man with little to do other than rant those prejudices on here (where you seem to be a sad permanent resident). You are no better than an anti-Semite. Anti-Semitism has a slightly longer history in this country than anti-Catholicism (particularly anti-Irish/anti-Catholicism, but both bear very similar hallmarks. The main hallmark is the general stupidity of the people that hold such prejudices, and you are a prime example. Well, I don't know about you, saddo, but now I have had my rant, I will do some work. Keep up the good work in showing everyone your general ignorance of anything that requires analysis and subtle nuance.
No you are talking complete bullshit.
Anti-semitism is being against Jews because they are Jews regardless of anything else. It is racism pure and simple.
Being against the institution of the Roman Catholic Church because it is a vile organisation with a terrible history going back through centuries and up to the present day is a completely different matter.
I have no qualms with Catholics. I would not have a go at someone because they are Catholic. My opinion is on the Catholic Church itself not individuals.
Though anti Semitism can also arguably include anti Israel sentiment
It can. If you are against Israel because they are Jewish certainly.
If you are against Israel because of [reasons] and you are against other countries with the same [reasons] then that is not anti-Semitism.
I am against the Roman Catholic Church because [reasons] and would be against any other organised religion or institution with the same [reasons].
Afternoon Ydoethur, lazy git, some of us have to work. I am stuck on webex, and spreadsheets.
@ydoethur might need to get back to work soon. The boffins are having second thoughts on school closures.
Countries like the UK that have closed schools to help stop the spread of coronavirus should ask hard questions about whether this is now the right policy, says one team of scientists.
The University College London team says keeping pupils off has little impact, even with other lockdown measures.
But a scientist whose work has informed the UK strategy insists school closures play an important role.
Or rather, third thoughts, given the initial plan was to keep schools open.
They then go on to suggest measures that are completely impossible for anything else except, maybe, A Level teaching.
Students stay 2 metres apart? Has he ever been inside a school? I do some of my teaching in the Early Years and try getting them to do it? It'd be like trying to knit fog. Same for anything up to and through GCSE, it just isn't based on reality. Practical subjects gone, they aren't possible either. Computer rooms, gone because only half a class can fit inside them. Corridors, god, corridors. I mean it's insane but, then again, most suggestions about school have been made by people who never set foot inside one, so they probably don't even realise.
The only way to keep children 2m apart (especially young ones) would be to encase them, individually, in those giant rolling inflatable ball things.
Mind you, that would solve the whole violence against teachers/accusations against teachers thing.
Well, that's P.E. sorted.
Another thing, school buses. Remember what they are like?
Low numbers Sunday, Monday, high Tuesday - seems a pattern of record keeping/clerical staff availability.
The rules are that enough time has to be given for relatives to be notified. I guess that paper trail means numbers are lower over the weekend so Monday is sadly a lot busier.
It's a while since I read them, but I believe Alanbrooke refers to it in several entries in his diaries. Indeed quite a lot of entries involve his exasperation at having to suppress C's more gung ho, not to say dumb headed, impulses.
So it IS probably true then. Yes, Churchill, love or loathe, he was a boyo. If seeking a neutral sentiment that offends nobody I would reach for the old "larger than life". He was larger than life.
Considering this is including the weekend deaths (especially in Scotland) it does feel like we have reached the peak.
To say you've reached the peak, doesn't it have to start going down again? I love the optimism, but I'm not sure we know that for sure yet.
Surely the peak is when it stops increasing? And because today's figures are inflated with the weekend count, if you average the last 3 days with the prior 3 days there is no increase - the death count has stabilised on average for the past week now. It was exponentially growing, but now it is consistent (barring minor differences and the weekend effect).
We'll see if it starts going down but for now its stopped going up at least.
Afternoon Ydoethur, lazy git, some of us have to work. I am stuck on webex, and spreadsheets.
@ydoethur might need to get back to work soon. The boffins are having second thoughts on school closures.
Countries like the UK that have closed schools to help stop the spread of coronavirus should ask hard questions about whether this is now the right policy, says one team of scientists.
The University College London team says keeping pupils off has little impact, even with other lockdown measures.
But a scientist whose work has informed the UK strategy insists school closures play an important role.
Or rather, third thoughts, given the initial plan was to keep schools open.
They then go on to suggest measures that are completely impossible for anything else except, maybe, A Level teaching.
Students stay 2 metres apart? Has he ever been inside a school? I do some of my teaching in the Early Years and try getting them to do it? It'd be like trying to knit fog. Same for anything up to and through GCSE, it just isn't based on reality. Practical subjects gone, they aren't possible either. Computer rooms, gone because only half a class can fit inside them. Corridors, god, corridors. I mean it's insane but, then again, most suggestions about school have been made by people who never set foot inside one, so they probably don't even realise.
The only way to keep children 2m apart (especially young ones) would be to encase them, individually, in those giant rolling inflatable ball things.
Mind you, that would solve the whole violence against teachers/accusations against teachers thing.
Well, that's P.E. sorted.
Another thing, school buses. Remember what they are like?
Our school buses were the eighth tier of hell. We used to have contests to see who could remove the most screws from the structure. By the time we got off, the seats upstairs would be riding backwards and forwards with the accelerator and the brake....
It’s wrong to be too quick because you need to gather facts first to make strong decisions.
For example you can’t sack or expel people for saying boris deserves what he’s getting
if that person didn’t say that, it’s a twisted grotesque truth of what they did say, distorted by scurrilous media or opponent skull duggery. I’m not saying these are the facts in this case, only that is point of principle we All can agree with, it needs to be soundly factual more so than fast.
Afternoon Ydoethur, lazy git, some of us have to work. I am stuck on webex, and spreadsheets.
@ydoethur might need to get back to work soon. The boffins are having second thoughts on school closures.
Countries like the UK that have closed schools to help stop the spread of coronavirus should ask hard questions about whether this is now the right policy, says one team of scientists.
The University College London team says keeping pupils off has little impact, even with other lockdown measures.
But a scientist whose work has informed the UK strategy insists school closures play an important role.
Or rather, third thoughts, given the initial plan was to keep schools open.
They then go on to suggest measures that are completely impossible for anything else except, maybe, A Level teaching.
Students stay 2 metres apart? Has he ever been inside a school? I do some of my teaching in the Early Years and try getting them to do it? It'd be like trying to knit fog. Same for anything up to and through GCSE, it just isn't based on reality. Practical subjects gone, they aren't possible either. Computer rooms, gone because only half a class can fit inside them. Corridors, god, corridors. I mean it's insane but, then again, most suggestions about school have been made by people who never set foot inside one, so they probably don't even realise.
The only way to keep children 2m apart (especially young ones) would be to encase them, individually, in those giant rolling inflatable ball things.
Mind you, that would solve the whole violence against teachers/accusations against teachers thing.
Well, that's P.E. sorted.
Another thing, school buses. Remember what they are like?
Our school buses were the eighth tier of hell. We used to have contests to see who could remove the most screws from the structure. By the time we got off, the seats upstairs would be riding backwards and forwards with the accelerator and the brake....
Surely if all the children are encased in giant bouncy balls, seating etc is not required. Use a dump truck?
Comments
I'm sure you always shake your opponents hand when you win (well not currently of course).
Tom Brake, who survived 2015 and 2017 lost in South West London.
North Norfolk was lost too.
As was the Welsh seat won in the by-election.
Basically, the LDs have now lost *all* but Orkney of the seats they won at their nadir in 2015.
Which is quite extraordinary.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/apr/07/coronavirus-live-news-boris-johnson-intensive-care-uk-donald-trump-america-us-praying-recovery-latest-updates
But the King did the right thing. Made no sense to risk that.
This is common in rape cases, particularly date rape where there is no issue over the identity of the man. No conviction is forthcoming, but no grounds to pursue the alleged victim either. That's sad - both the victim and acquitted defendant inevitably carry around the stain of doubt, and the wronged party (whoever it is) never feels they have got justice and closure. But it is what it is - we are in the wide territory of reasonable doubt, with no prospect of ever saying definitively who is telling the truth.
1. The winter flu crisis in the NHS, at the prospect of which Labour and fellow travellers were salivating back in November/December, fortunately never happened. It was a relatively benign winter for England & Wales deaths.
2. We can be reasonably confident that there hasn't been a big pool of unreported Covid-19 deaths, hidden in the figures for other deaths because they weren't recognised at the time.
3. But, as we know from other statistics, the Covid-19 death toll is beginning to show through in the last couple of weeks of that graph.
Which is probably as dependent upon Farron's personal vote as North Norfolk was on Lamb's.
The LibDems also lost Eastbourne in 2019.
I guess he doesn't buy insurance either
I felt rather sorry for the Eastbourne chap. He resigned the LD whip to support Mrs May's deal because it was the right thing to respect the referendum vote.
Likewise covid deaths now will likely see a reduction in flu deaths next winter.
Could help to pass the time ......
That is exactly it. Lots of words jostle around in my head when I think of Donald Trump but that is the one which dominates. ENOUGH.
We wouldn't even be discussing this if it wasn't for the fact the Pope was basically gloating about doubt being found in a Cardinal's conviction, rather than being restrained and saying thought were with the victims.
If I don't like the Roman Catholic Church or organised religion in general its not a "prejudice" it is because in your own words "there is a lot to criticise the Roman Catholic Church for" including but not limited to covering up the scandal of organised paedophilia within its institution.
No institution is beyond criticism and the Church deserves any scorn heaped upon it - and the Pontifex is only encouraging it with his words.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1247540701291638787?s=20
Rather like the home tutors who are now working remotely, such as the piano tutor I heard of the other day.
“Together we have taken control of the virus, therefore we can open up society little by little,” Erna Solberg was quoted as saying by Reuters.
My Norwegian is rusty, but a reader has emailed to say that nurseries and daycare centres will reopen from 20 April, and primary schools and the last year of sixth form will reopen from 27 April. Restrictions on visiting second homes will be lifted from 20 April, the same date that one-on-one health services will begin to reopen.
It means Norway joins Denmark and Austria in making plans to emerge from the lockdown conditions that have been imposed by governments across Europe
Tony Blair?
Students stay 2 metres apart? Has he ever been inside a school? I do some of my teaching in the Early Years and try getting them to do it? It'd be like trying to knit fog. Same for anything up to and through GCSE, it just isn't based on reality. Practical subjects gone, they aren't possible either. Computer rooms, gone because only half a class can fit inside them. Corridors, god, corridors. I mean it's insane but, then again, most suggestions about school have been made by people who never set foot inside one, so they probably don't even realise.
My friend and her newborn son have been discharged from hospital after recovering from suspected Covid-19.
Coronavirus: North-South divide ahead of key EU meeting
The coronavirus pandemic has exposed deep divides in Europe, with EU member states arguing over how to tackle the economic fallout.
Italy and Spain have accused northern nations - led by Germany and the Netherlands - of not doing enough. Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez has even warned that if the EU fails to come up with an ambitious plan to help member states saddled with debt by the fight against coronavirus, the bloc could "fall apart".
EU Council and Commission chiefs released a statement on Monday that said a "strong package is in the making". Eurozone finance ministers will hold a teleconference later on Tuesday.
Italy, Spain, France and other EU states want to share out coronavirus-incurred debt in the form of "coronabonds" (or eurobonds) - mutualised debt that all EU nations help pay off.
Some from these hard-hit nations have been angered by a perceived indifference from other EU states.
Wealthier countries like Germany are not yet digging deeper into their pockets to help out poorer nations like Italy and Spain.
Public opinion
Germany wants to set up an EU rescue fund and lend using mechanisms set up during the financial crisis of a decade ago.
This week, a group of Italian mayors and other politicians bought a page in Germany's Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung newspaper to remind Germany that it was never made to pay back its debts after World War Two.
Public opinion has also been shifting in Germany.
Economists, politicians and commentators who once railed against mutualising eurozone debt to bail out Greece amid the last financial crisis are calling for exactly that to help Southern Europe deal with the coronavirus.
Even the German tabloid Bild, that led the anti-Greece charge 10 years ago, is now calling for so-called coronabonds. The situation today is more like a natural disaster then a crisis sparked by risky lending, they argue.
Agreement emerging
Finance ministers are likely to converge on three ways to prop up the economy - use of the European Stability Mechanism (ESM) bailout fund, the European Investment Fund and the European Commission’s short-time work scheme.
“There is an agreement emerging on the first three options, but that is not enough,” French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire told journalists ahead of Tuesday’s meeting.
Mr Le Maire wants a fund worth “several hundred billion euros” in joint borrowing to finance economic recovery.
But Austria, Denmark, Finland and the Netherlands have refused to back joint borrowing, anxious that they could be liable for repaying the debts of member states in the south.
The EU will likely agree on economic support through the usual channels, not through new coronabonds.
"There is a lot of room for solidarity within the existing instruments and institutions," read a statement from EU Council and Commission chiefs on Monday.
Source: BBC
Anti-semitism is being against Jews because they are Jews regardless of anything else. It is racism pure and simple.
Being against the institution of the Roman Catholic Church because it is a vile organisation with a terrible history going back through centuries and up to the present day is a completely different matter.
I have no qualms with Catholics. I would not have a go at someone because they are Catholic. My opinion is on the Catholic Church itself not individuals.
Mind you, that would solve the whole violence against teachers/accusations against teachers thing.
If you are against Israel because of [reasons] and you are against other countries with the same [reasons] then that is not anti-Semitism.
I am against the Roman Catholic Church because [reasons] and would be against any other organised religion or institution with the same [reasons].
Another thing, school buses. Remember what they are like?
We'll see if it starts going down but for now its stopped going up at least.
* while he's sick.
It’s wrong to be too quick because you need to gather facts first to make strong decisions.
For example you can’t sack or expel people for saying boris deserves what he’s getting
if that person didn’t say that, it’s a twisted grotesque truth of what they did say, distorted by scurrilous media or opponent skull duggery.
I’m not saying these are the facts in this case, only that is point of principle we All can agree with, it needs to be soundly factual more so than fast.
But the one we all want to see is.....