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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Raab trails in fourth place in latest YouGov senior cabinet mi

SystemSystem Posts: 12,170
edited April 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Raab trails in fourth place in latest YouGov senior cabinet minsters’ favourability rankings

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Comments

  • Firstish?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Because he hasn't *yet* had the chance to have a good war. Ask again in a week.
  • What does Sir Richard Burgon score?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Would be interesting to see the DKs.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    edited April 2020
    Fifth
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    Fourth

    Sorry old boy. :D
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    I wonder how many "Don't Knows" or "Who?" there are with the public.

    Interesting to see Sunak rank so high.
  • Firstish?

    Pathetic, isn't it.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Sunak +36.

    "Nice young man who gives away lots of money is rather popular" shocker.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Boris is so going to let Raab take all the tough decisions and then get better and show up just in time to do popular things
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    So Raab has a neutral net favourable rating, better than many elected PMs have had
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    I actually think that the mockery of Raab is a Twitter/Westminster thing. I don't think the general public are even that aware of him. He looks the part, so provided he remains gaffe free from here on in I can see him rising in the public's estimation.
  • Raab was a pretty moderate performer during and pre-GE, but he has a good opportunity to put that right now. No need to be partisan about this. Hope he does so.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    RobD said:

    Fourth

    Sorry old boy. :D
    Thankfully the edit button was at hand
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,833
    edited April 2020
    Has to be Raab, though.
    I'd say the two figures having the 'best' crisis are Hancock and Sunak. But they have contradictory aims: one is aiming , quite rightly, to minimise deaths, the other is aiming, equally rightly, to have an economy left to return to when this is over. There is tension between the two portfolios, and someone is needed to arbitrate between the two. It can't be one or the other. Raab is the most senior of those who are neither Hancock nor Sunak.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    FPT
    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TOPPING said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    I do wonder about who is advising them, although perhaps they aren't taking any notice. I can't believe any PR expert would be suggesting this is a good idea at the moment.
    And that name is Consignia level bad. Unpronounceable and overtones of arch, hell and chew (18th century synonym for a blowjob according to William Golding).
    That middle "e" is going to irritate me every time I see it. Which won't be that often, I hope.
    The aim “to do something that matters” makes it sound like a spoof. Or the 21st century version of those 18th century bubble companies: “For carrying-on an undertaking of great advantage but no-one to know what it is”.
    Where can I invest? I only have some tulip bulbs - perhaps we can do a swap for some shares?
    The South Sea Company was an extremely profitable investment, thank you very much
    Any ancestors caught up in it? :)
    They made about £28,000 in profits, 70% from principal investing and 30% from margin lending.

    Equivalent to about 300,000 days of skilled craftsman wages.

    p.s. for those people questioning my description of Malibu, we looked at it, before buying our summer home further south in Orange County. So, it's a personal opinion, but one that has some basis.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    RobD said:

    Would be interesting to see the DKs.

    Raabs DK is 48/100.

    So the graph is a bit moot.

    Patel's numbers - sexist, racist or just anti-semitic ?

  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914
    TGOHF666 said:

    RobD said:

    Would be interesting to see the DKs.

    Raabs DK is 48/100.

    So the graph is a bit moot.

    Patel's numbers - sexist, racist or just anti-semitic ?

    .. or based on her policies, actions and character?
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884

    What does Sir Richard Burgon score?

    don't mention his IQ
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Dr. Anthony Cardillo said he has seen very promising results when prescribing hydroxychloroquine in combination with zinc for the most severely-ill COVID-19 patients.

    "Every patient I've prescribed it to has been very, very ill and within 8 to 12 hours, they were basically symptom-free," Cardillo told Eyewitness News. "So clinically I am seeing a resolution."

    He said he has found it only works if combined with zinc. The drug, he said, opens a channel for the zinc to enter the cell and block virus replication.

    https://abc7.com/coronavirus-drug-covid-19-malaria-hydroxychloroquine/6079864/

    To be published in The Journal of Anecdotal Medicine?
    Have these people not heard of controlled clinical trials ?
    Or are such things just unnecessary bureaucracy ...
    Controlled clinical trials are excellent things, but they don't invalidate case histories and observation (without which you'd be pushed to find things to have trials of). Penicillin went into full production and use without a single controlled or blinded trial being carried out on it. For that matter, the inventor of ibuprofen said last year that he knew it worked because he took some for a hangover, and the hangover went away.
    Controlled clinical trials are excellent for avoiding things like manslaughter charges. People and their pesky rights, eh?
    That probably sounds in your own head as if it makes some sort of point. For starters, the safety phase of a trial is not controlled anyway (unless you regard "everybody else" as the control). Yes, James Phipps and Albert Alexander probably had their "pesky rights" infringed, but it is a net benefit to the human race that the infractions happened without intervention by an ill-informed member of the anecdote police.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    Cookie said:

    Has to be Raab, though.
    I'd say the two figures having the 'best' crisis are Hancock and Sunak. But they have contradictory aims: one is aiming , quite rightly, to minimise deaths, the other is aiming, equally rightly, to have an economy left to return to when this is over. There is tension between the two portfolios, and someone is needed to arbitrate between the two. It can't be one or the other. Raab is the most senior of those who are neither Hancock nor Sunak.

    If they were any good the pair of fannies could sit down and work out the best plan for the public , not be jessie boys and try to get their own way.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    Hope today delivers lots of joy, and you have a nice break from your labours.

    Happy Birthday!

    Why, thank you my fellow 1983er.

    Currently waiting for an apple strudel to cook.

    It cooked less well than I was hoping because I absentmindedly turned the oven off.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Where did this silly clap for boris thingy come from, ridiculous idea, include him in your thoughts and prayers along with other sufferers, victims and families but clap for him?
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    TGOHF666 said:


    Patel's numbers - sexist, racist or just anti-semitic ?

    It may also be relevant that she's corrupt, a proven liar and not very bright.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,191
    TGOHF666 said:

    RobD said:

    Would be interesting to see the DKs.

    Raabs DK is 48/100.

    So the graph is a bit moot.

    Patel's numbers - sexist, racist or just anti-semitic ?

    Hope that was a shit joke rather than just being a really shit comment
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    Charles said:

    FPT

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TOPPING said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    I do wonder about who is advising them, although perhaps they aren't taking any notice. I can't believe any PR expert would be suggesting this is a good idea at the moment.
    And that name is Consignia level bad. Unpronounceable and overtones of arch, hell and chew (18th century synonym for a blowjob according to William Golding).
    That middle "e" is going to irritate me every time I see it. Which won't be that often, I hope.
    The aim “to do something that matters” makes it sound like a spoof. Or the 21st century version of those 18th century bubble companies: “For carrying-on an undertaking of great advantage but no-one to know what it is”.
    Where can I invest? I only have some tulip bulbs - perhaps we can do a swap for some shares?
    The South Sea Company was an extremely profitable investment, thank you very much
    Any ancestors caught up in it? :)
    They made about £28,000 in profits, 70% from principal investing and 30% from margin lending.

    Equivalent to about 300,000 days of skilled craftsman wages.

    p.s. for those people questioning my description of Malibu, we looked at it, before buying our summer home further south in Orange County. So, it's a personal opinion, but one that has some basis.
    Have been to both, personally preferred Malibu, mainly went to Orange County for the Nixon library but yes agree personal choice
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    TGOHF666 said:

    RobD said:

    Would be interesting to see the DKs.

    Raabs DK is 48/100.

    So the graph is a bit moot.

    Patel's numbers - sexist, racist or just anti-semitic ?

    .. or based on her policies, actions and character?
    Name a policy with polling evidence it is unpopular...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    malcolmg said:

    Cookie said:

    Has to be Raab, though.
    I'd say the two figures having the 'best' crisis are Hancock and Sunak. But they have contradictory aims: one is aiming , quite rightly, to minimise deaths, the other is aiming, equally rightly, to have an economy left to return to when this is over. There is tension between the two portfolios, and someone is needed to arbitrate between the two. It can't be one or the other. Raab is the most senior of those who are neither Hancock nor Sunak.

    If they were any good the pair of fannies could sit down and work out the best plan for the public , not be jessie boys and try to get their own way.
    Afternoon Malc :smiley:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    nichomar said:

    Where did this silly clap for boris thingy come from, ridiculous idea, include him in your thoughts and prayers along with other sufferers, victims and families but clap for him?

    It will be a good way of identifying Tory voters in the road
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    HYUFD said:
    I must confess that I am a little surprised that Sweden remains a fairly middle of the pack runner in all of this. As the time since other countries went into serious lockdown extends beyond the 2 week lag their performance really should be becoming more distinctive.

    It would be very interesting to learn more of why. Is it the case that the population are indulging in fairly thorough social isolation without a regulatory framework? Or are we simply over estimating the effectiveness of lock downs?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    TGOHF666 said:

    RobD said:

    Would be interesting to see the DKs.

    Raabs DK is 48/100.

    So the graph is a bit moot.

    Patel's numbers - sexist, racist or just anti-semitic ?

    All of the above.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,833
    edited April 2020
    Whenever the planes are grounded (9/11, Icelandic volcano, now) the weather always seems utterly glorious. Now, while I agree keeping carbon emissions down must be good, and global warming is bad, it's not a battle I can get emotionally invested in. But spells of weather like this? If this is what we get for grounding flights I'm off to join XR*.

    *Obviously I'm not really.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    ydoethur said:

    Hope today delivers lots of joy, and you have a nice break from your labours.

    Happy Birthday!

    Why, thank you my fellow 1983er.

    Currently waiting for an apple strudel to cook.

    It cooked less well than I was hoping because I absentmindedly turned the oven off.
    Sorry, that made me LOL
  • Glad to see I speak for the nation with my views on the disgraced national security risk that currently is Home Secretary.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    edited April 2020
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:
    I must confess that I am a little surprised that Sweden remains a fairly middle of the pack runner in all of this. As the time since other countries went into serious lockdown extends beyond the 2 week lag their performance really should be becoming more distinctive.

    It would be very interesting to learn more of why. Is it the case that the population are indulging in fairly thorough social isolation without a regulatory framework? Or are we simply over estimating the effectiveness of lock downs?
    If today's trend continues, Sweden will not be middle of the pack much longer
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    TGOHF666 said:

    RobD said:

    Would be interesting to see the DKs.

    Raabs DK is 48/100.

    So the graph is a bit moot.

    Patel's numbers - sexist, racist or just anti-semitic ?

    Those may have been issues at one time, but she's mellowed a lot since then. :lol:
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Those Russian-pushed stories about Boris Johnson’s health may have a piquant backdrop:

    https://twitter.com/shaunwalker7/status/1247501500630384642?s=21
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Dr. Anthony Cardillo said he has seen very promising results when prescribing hydroxychloroquine in combination with zinc for the most severely-ill COVID-19 patients.

    "Every patient I've prescribed it to has been very, very ill and within 8 to 12 hours, they were basically symptom-free," Cardillo told Eyewitness News. "So clinically I am seeing a resolution."

    He said he has found it only works if combined with zinc. The drug, he said, opens a channel for the zinc to enter the cell and block virus replication.

    https://abc7.com/coronavirus-drug-covid-19-malaria-hydroxychloroquine/6079864/

    To be published in The Journal of Anecdotal Medicine?
    Have these people not heard of controlled clinical trials ?
    Or are such things just unnecessary bureaucracy ...
    Controlled clinical trials are excellent things, but they don't invalidate case histories and observation (without which you'd be pushed to find things to have trials of). Penicillin went into full production and use without a single controlled or blinded trial being carried out on it. For that matter, the inventor of ibuprofen said last year that he knew it worked because he took some for a hangover, and the hangover went away.
    Controlled clinical trials are excellent for avoiding things like manslaughter charges. People and their pesky rights, eh?
    That probably sounds in your own head as if it makes some sort of point. For starters, the safety phase of a trial is not controlled anyway (unless you regard "everybody else" as the control). Yes, James Phipps and Albert Alexander probably had their "pesky rights" infringed, but it is a net benefit to the human race that the infractions happened without intervention by an ill-informed member of the anecdote police.
    I meant that times have changed. The past is full of things which were OK at the time and perhaps even moved civilisation forward.

    I am not entirely happy at the various suggestions that we should short cut clinical trials for a vaccine for COVID19. We could easily create another disaster.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,191
    nichomar said:

    Where did this silly clap for boris thingy come from, ridiculous idea, include him in your thoughts and prayers along with other sufferers, victims and families but clap for him?

    No 10 should probably knock it on the head. Mass clapping looks like North Korea, isolated outbreaks of clapping is just embarrassing.
  • Another childhood legend died. The guy who played the Virginian has left us.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    ydoethur said:

    Hope today delivers lots of joy, and you have a nice break from your labours.

    Happy Birthday!

    Why, thank you my fellow 1983er.

    Currently waiting for an apple strudel to cook.

    It cooked less well than I was hoping because I absentmindedly turned the oven off.
    Going somewhere nice?

    Ah.

    My daughter's birthday is on the 28th and the lack of a party is already being lamented almost daily.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    edited April 2020
    Floater said:

    ydoethur said:

    Hope today delivers lots of joy, and you have a nice break from your labours.

    Happy Birthday!

    Why, thank you my fellow 1983er.

    Currently waiting for an apple strudel to cook.

    It cooked less well than I was hoping because I absentmindedly turned the oven off.
    Sorry, that made me LOL
    I did as well when I realised what I’d done!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    edited April 2020
    Is this site for real?...

    https://covid19.healthdata.org

    Forecasting a first-wave total of 81k deaths for USA, 19k for Spain, 20k for Italy, 15k for France, 9k for Germany and, wait for it....

    66k for the UK (!)

    UK deaths to be triple those in Spain or Italy anyone?

    (Edit: I see now the projection assumes the UK has a total of 799 ICU beds - might be why the death projection is so high.)
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:
    I must confess that I am a little surprised that Sweden remains a fairly middle of the pack runner in all of this. As the time since other countries went into serious lockdown extends beyond the 2 week lag their performance really should be becoming more distinctive.

    It would be very interesting to learn more of why. Is it the case that the population are indulging in fairly thorough social isolation without a regulatory framework? Or are we simply over estimating the effectiveness of lock downs?
    If today's trend continues, Sweden will not be middle of the pack much longer
    They are at 59/million deaths. We are at 79 before today's figures are added. They have a bit of catching up to do although they are somewhat ahead of both Norway and Denmark.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,833
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:
    I must confess that I am a little surprised that Sweden remains a fairly middle of the pack runner in all of this. As the time since other countries went into serious lockdown extends beyond the 2 week lag their performance really should be becoming more distinctive.

    It would be very interesting to learn more of why. Is it the case that the population are indulging in fairly thorough social isolation without a regulatory framework? Or are we simply over estimating the effectiveness of lock downs?
    1) It takes much longer than you (or at least I) instinctively think for policies to feed through to exponential rises in infections and for this to feed through to exponential rises in deaths. A month ago, in the UK, the world was still acting pretty much as normal. If a given country is doing something 'wrong', it takes a long time for this to become apparent.

    2) Swedes give each other a lot of room anyway. Culturally, it's not a great place for a virus to spread.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    edited April 2020
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Hope today delivers lots of joy, and you have a nice break from your labours.

    Happy Birthday!

    Why, thank you my fellow 1983er.

    Currently waiting for an apple strudel to cook.

    It cooked less well than I was hoping because I absentmindedly turned the oven off.
    Going somewhere nice?

    Ah.

    My daughter's birthday is on the 28th and the lack of a party is already being lamented almost daily.
    I treated myself to an hour’s bike ride across the Chase this morning.

    I’ve had phone calls and messages from family.

    This afternoon I have sun, a book, my garden and all my mates on PB to chat to.

    What more could anyone want?

    As @Cyclefree says, let us count our blessings.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590

    Is this site for real?...

    https://covid19.healthdata.org

    Forecasting a first-wave total of 81k deaths for USA, 19k for Spain, 20k for Italy, 15k for France, 9k for Germany and, wait for it....

    66k for the UK (!)

    UK deaths to be triple those in Spain or Italy anyone?

    They're predicting today's number will be 1200 and it'll keep getting worse from here, so does indeed feel a little off.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405

    Is this site for real?...

    https://covid19.healthdata.org

    Forecasting a first-wave total of 81k deaths for USA, 19k for Spain, 20k for Italy, 15k for France, 9k for Germany and, wait for it....

    66k for the UK (!)

    UK deaths to be triple those in Spain or Italy anyone?

    Well it's a website but the figures make little sense based on what we are actually seeing.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:
    I must confess that I am a little surprised that Sweden remains a fairly middle of the pack runner in all of this. As the time since other countries went into serious lockdown extends beyond the 2 week lag their performance really should be becoming more distinctive.

    It would be very interesting to learn more of why. Is it the case that the population are indulging in fairly thorough social isolation without a regulatory framework? Or are we simply over estimating the effectiveness of lock downs?
    If today's trend continues, Sweden will not be middle of the pack much longer
    They are at 59/million deaths. We are at 79 before today's figures are added. They have a bit of catching up to do although they are somewhat ahead of both Norway and Denmark.
    Their number today is the equivalent of well over 800 in UK terms and yesterday was quite high too so it doesn't seem to be a weekend effect
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    edited April 2020
    maaarsh said:

    Is this site for real?...

    https://covid19.healthdata.org

    Forecasting a first-wave total of 81k deaths for USA, 19k for Spain, 20k for Italy, 15k for France, 9k for Germany and, wait for it....

    66k for the UK (!)

    UK deaths to be triple those in Spain or Italy anyone?

    They're predicting today's number will be 1200 and it'll keep getting worse from here, so does indeed feel a little off.
    Since Italy’s well over 16,000 and rising at several hundred a day, if they keep to 20,000something strange and wonderful will have happened.

    So I would suggest that site is a consignment of geriatric shoe menders.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:
    I must confess that I am a little surprised that Sweden remains a fairly middle of the pack runner in all of this. As the time since other countries went into serious lockdown extends beyond the 2 week lag their performance really should be becoming more distinctive.

    It would be very interesting to learn more of why. Is it the case that the population are indulging in fairly thorough social isolation without a regulatory framework? Or are we simply over estimating the effectiveness of lock downs?
    1) It takes much longer than you (or at least I) instinctively think for policies to feed through to exponential rises in infections and for this to feed through to exponential rises in deaths. A month ago, in the UK, the world was still acting pretty much as normal. If a given country is doing something 'wrong', it takes a long time for this to become apparent.

    2) Swedes give each other a lot of room anyway. Culturally, it's not a great place for a virus to spread.
    A couple of years ago I had a Swedish Eurodevil called Erika. Lovely person but not quite the stereotype I had in mind. More like yours actually.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119

    Is this site for real?...

    https://covid19.healthdata.org

    Forecasting a first-wave total of 81k deaths for USA, 19k for Spain, 20k for Italy, 15k for France, 9k for Germany and, wait for it....

    66k for the UK (!)

    UK deaths to be triple those in Spain or Italy anyone?

    (Edit: I see now the projection assumes the UK has a total of 799 ICU beds - might be why the death projection is so high.)

    It is legit website / organisation. But I think they need to turn the computer off and on again.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609

    What does Sir Richard Burgon score?

    don't mention his IQ
    He has one?
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,680
    eek said:

    Is this site for real?...

    https://covid19.healthdata.org

    Forecasting a first-wave total of 81k deaths for USA, 19k for Spain, 20k for Italy, 15k for France, 9k for Germany and, wait for it....

    66k for the UK (!)

    UK deaths to be triple those in Spain or Italy anyone?

    Well it's a website but the figures make little sense based on what we are actually seeing.
    The Graun has expanded on these findings here:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/apr/07/coronavirus-live-news-boris-johnson-intensive-care-uk-donald-trump-america-us-praying-recovery-latest-updates?page=with:block-5e8c626d8f08ec70cecec0de#block-5e8c626d8f08ec70cecec0de
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    FPT

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TOPPING said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    I do wonder about who is advising them, although perhaps they aren't taking any notice. I can't believe any PR expert would be suggesting this is a good idea at the moment.
    And that name is Consignia level bad. Unpronounceable and overtones of arch, hell and chew (18th century synonym for a blowjob according to William Golding).
    That middle "e" is going to irritate me every time I see it. Which won't be that often, I hope.
    The aim “to do something that matters” makes it sound like a spoof. Or the 21st century version of those 18th century bubble companies: “For carrying-on an undertaking of great advantage but no-one to know what it is”.
    Where can I invest? I only have some tulip bulbs - perhaps we can do a swap for some shares?
    The South Sea Company was an extremely profitable investment, thank you very much
    Any ancestors caught up in it? :)
    They made about £28,000 in profits, 70% from principal investing and 30% from margin lending.

    Equivalent to about 300,000 days of skilled craftsman wages.

    p.s. for those people questioning my description of Malibu, we looked at it, before buying our summer home further south in Orange County. So, it's a personal opinion, but one that has some basis.
    Have been to both, personally preferred Malibu, mainly went to Orange County for the Nixon library but yes agree personal choice
    Yorba Linda is not representative of OC!! It's virtually IE!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Hope today delivers lots of joy, and you have a nice break from your labours.

    Happy Birthday!

    Why, thank you my fellow 1983er.

    Currently waiting for an apple strudel to cook.

    It cooked less well than I was hoping because I absentmindedly turned the oven off.
    Going somewhere nice?

    Ah.

    My daughter's birthday is on the 28th and the lack of a party is already being lamented almost daily.
    I treated myself to an hour’s bike ride across the Chase this morning.

    I’ve had phone calls and messages from family.

    This afternoon I have sun, a book, my garden and all my mates on PB to chat to.

    What more could anyone want?

    As @Cyclefree says, let us count our blessings.
    The weather is genuinely nice here today. Last few days there has been a lot of showers and a strong coldish wind. Really looking forward to my walk this afternoon.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited April 2020
    eadric said:

    We wanted some good news...
    twitter.com/marklevinshow/status/1247500269258190849?s=21

    “All we need to do is adjust the system to the new sequence,” he said. “We are in the middle of this process, and hopefully in a few weeks we will have the vaccine in our hands...

    MIGAL would be responsible for developing the new vaccine, but it would then have to go through a regulatory process, including clinical trials and large-scale production, Katz said.


    So it might be really cool and a solution, but they aren't even as far along as lots of the other candidates. They are simply saying they might have a different and better way of making vaccines.

    There is no way they can do full set of clinical trials in 90 days.
  • alednamalednam Posts: 186
    Is Gove's favourability rating even less than Raab's (i.e. negative)?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Dr. Anthony Cardillo said he has seen very promising results when prescribing hydroxychloroquine in combination with zinc for the most severely-ill COVID-19 patients.

    "Every patient I've prescribed it to has been very, very ill and within 8 to 12 hours, they were basically symptom-free," Cardillo told Eyewitness News. "So clinically I am seeing a resolution."

    He said he has found it only works if combined with zinc. The drug, he said, opens a channel for the zinc to enter the cell and block virus replication.

    https://abc7.com/coronavirus-drug-covid-19-malaria-hydroxychloroquine/6079864/

    To be published in The Journal of Anecdotal Medicine?
    Have these people not heard of controlled clinical trials ?
    Or are such things just unnecessary bureaucracy ...
    Controlled clinical trials are excellent things, but they don't invalidate case histories and observation (without which you'd be pushed to find things to have trials of). Penicillin went into full production and use without a single controlled or blinded trial being carried out on it. For that matter, the inventor of ibuprofen said last year that he knew it worked because he took some for a hangover, and the hangover went away.
    Controlled clinical trials are excellent for avoiding things like manslaughter charges. People and their pesky rights, eh?
    That probably sounds in your own head as if it makes some sort of point. For starters, the safety phase of a trial is not controlled anyway (unless you regard "everybody else" as the control). Yes, James Phipps and Albert Alexander probably had their "pesky rights" infringed, but it is a net benefit to the human race that the infractions happened without intervention by an ill-informed member of the anecdote police.
    Of course they are controlled.
    And in this case it's less to do with patients' rights (the emergency use of the drug is after all sanctioned by the FDA) and rather more to do with selection criteria, and independent verifiable observation of cases and outcomes.

    It's not impossible that he's on to something, but the evidence produced seems less than sketchy. The patients are described as "very, very ill", which then gets re-reported as "the most seriously ill".
    Were any of them admitted to an ICU ?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    edited April 2020

    Those Russian-pushed stories about Boris Johnson’s health may have a piquant backdrop:

    https://twitter.com/shaunwalker7/status/1247501500630384642?s=21

    I hope he hasn't been opening any bottles of found aftershave.....
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    eadric said:

    maaarsh said:

    Is this site for real?...

    https://covid19.healthdata.org

    Forecasting a first-wave total of 81k deaths for USA, 19k for Spain, 20k for Italy, 15k for France, 9k for Germany and, wait for it....

    66k for the UK (!)

    UK deaths to be triple those in Spain or Italy anyone?

    They're predicting today's number will be 1200 and it'll keep getting worse from here, so does indeed feel a little off.
    It’s not a crank website tho. University of Washington.

    It predicts the UK will have by far the worst plague outcome in the western world (per capita)

    We have to hope they are not just wrong, but wildly wrong. That’s grim
    They may not be cranks, but give the range of locations and the granularity of the forecast, it's clearly a spreadsheet operation entirely subject to SISO. Their UK forecast curve has a big discontinuity between actual data and where the forecast starts, so it rather looks like they predicted even worse a few days ago and are steadily being proved wrong.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,814
    Very relieved to hear the news about Boris. Hopefully his condition is stabilising though perhaps premature to read anything into it yet.

    When does the “danger zone” seem to end for sufferers? It seems day 10 is the average day for ICU admission but beyond that when do we start to see recovery on average?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    eadric said:

    maaarsh said:

    Is this site for real?...

    https://covid19.healthdata.org

    Forecasting a first-wave total of 81k deaths for USA, 19k for Spain, 20k for Italy, 15k for France, 9k for Germany and, wait for it....

    66k for the UK (!)

    UK deaths to be triple those in Spain or Italy anyone?

    They're predicting today's number will be 1200 and it'll keep getting worse from here, so does indeed feel a little off.
    It’s not a crank website tho. University of Washington.

    It predicts the UK will have by far the worst plague outcome in the western world (per capita)

    We have to hope they are not just wrong, but wildly wrong. That’s grim
    They are basing it on the UK having fewer than 800 ICU beds. Odd.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    Another childhood legend died. The guy who played the Virginian has left us.

    Sad indeed. But outlived Trampas by 25 years. It's a lottery.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,833
    Has this been commented on? Seems that Porton Down is encouragingly close to a 'who has had it' test:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-tests-never-heard-hold-key-exit-lockdown/
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Hope today delivers lots of joy, and you have a nice break from your labours.

    Happy Birthday!

    Why, thank you my fellow 1983er.

    Currently waiting for an apple strudel to cook.

    It cooked less well than I was hoping because I absentmindedly turned the oven off.
    Going somewhere nice?

    Ah.

    My daughter's birthday is on the 28th and the lack of a party is already being lamented almost daily.
    I treated myself to an hour’s bike ride across the Chase this morning.

    I’ve had phone calls and messages from family.

    This afternoon I have sun, a book, my garden and all my mates on PB to chat to.

    What more could anyone want?

    As @Cyclefree says, let us count our blessings.
    Indeed. I will raise a glass in your honour this evening.
    (Grasping the excuse.)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    maaarsh said:

    Is this site for real?...

    https://covid19.healthdata.org

    Forecasting a first-wave total of 81k deaths for USA, 19k for Spain, 20k for Italy, 15k for France, 9k for Germany and, wait for it....

    66k for the UK (!)

    UK deaths to be triple those in Spain or Italy anyone?

    They're predicting today's number will be 1200 and it'll keep getting worse from here, so does indeed feel a little off.
    If today's UK figure is close to 1200 deaths we'll all be well-spooked!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Cookie said:

    Has to be Raab, though.
    I'd say the two figures having the 'best' crisis are Hancock and Sunak. But they have contradictory aims: one is aiming , quite rightly, to minimise deaths, the other is aiming, equally rightly, to have an economy left to return to when this is over. There is tension between the two portfolios, and someone is needed to arbitrate between the two. It can't be one or the other. Raab is the most senior of those who are neither Hancock nor Sunak.

    I don't think the need will arise - since Boris will recover - but if it did I'd say Gove.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,250
    I knew it :-). FPT

    @Cyclefree's Gardening Corner Q9 #gardening

    Looking after bulbs - I am just getting my first lot of container daffodils in flower.

    Two questions if I may.

    1 - What do I need to do to keep these healthy for this year and next year? (I am familiar with the basics - do not remove the leaves too soon after flowering, water when a finger depth is dry etc.)

    2 - What is the best time to put in new bulbs (I want some snowdrops and crocuses and extra daffodils) for next year or 2022?

    The photo is my daffs and my cousin's first tulips (he has a camera not an iPad :-) ).

    Thanks for any comments. I will repost if I get new-thread-clobbered.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1247504724879986689
    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1247505506463289345

  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    There is this fantasy on all sides of the political debate that people who reach high office either in government or opposition are thick as two short planks.

    Clue: they are not. They are very very smart and moreso diligent. Look at Raab or Lammy's CV. Outstanding.

    Problem is they have to deal with, appeal to, and somehow try to satisfy us lot, the public, and we are thick as fuck.

    Fully behind your general point, which is more than reasonably solid, it's undeniably true. Almost every top politician is cleverer than most of the people who comment adversely on the intelligence of politicians. There are exceptions, however, e.g. Priti Patel. My genuine sense of her intellect is that it's not materially above average.
    You put that very kindly. Most folk would have given a far harsher judgement and delivered it in a less diplomatic fashion.

    The average person on an omnibus has a brain the size of a planet compared with Patel. One of the great mysteries of Boris Johnson’s career is: what the hell was he thinking?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    Cookie said:

    Has this been commented on? Seems that Porton Down is encouragingly close to a 'who has had it' test:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-tests-never-heard-hold-key-exit-lockdown/

    I would wait until we see some numbers on the reliability of the test. Lots of groups have come up with such tests - the issue is false positives/negatives.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Cookie said:

    Has this been commented on? Seems that Porton Down is encouragingly close to a 'who has had it' test:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-tests-never-heard-hold-key-exit-lockdown/

    But according to some, we were doing f##k all until about a week ago...

    The work at Porton Down is understood to have been underway since January. Moreover, it plays to our skill set as a nation, based as it is on high-end science rather than the more mundane - but crucially important business - of high volume throughput or production.

    Experts say the first two months were spent validating high tech “assays” for reliably identifying coronavirus antibodies and designing a robust longitudinal blood sampling study. The first 800 blood samples were delivered to the laboritary in late February.

    Dr Stamataki added that it was these Porton Down assays that the commercial antibody tests which the government has taken options on are being validated against.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    TGOHF666 said:

    Raabs DK is 48/100.

    So the graph is a bit moot.

    Patel's numbers - sexist, racist or just anti-semitic ?

    Cannot know for sure but I would suspect more than a touch of dumbism.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    Cookie said:

    Has this been commented on? Seems that Porton Down is encouragingly close to a 'who has had it' test:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-tests-never-heard-hold-key-exit-lockdown/

    But according to some, we were doing f##k all until about a week ago...

    The work at Porton Down is understood to have been underway since January. Moreover, it plays to our skill set as a nation, based as it is on high-end science rather than the more mundane - but crucially important business - of high volume throughput or production.

    Experts say the first two months were spent validating high tech “assays” for reliably identifying coronavirus antibodies and designing a robust longitudinal blood sampling study. The first 800 blood samples were delivered to the laboritary in late February.

    Dr Stamataki added that it was these Porton Down assays that the commercial antibody tests which the government has taken options on are being validated against.
    It is encouraging. Any relaible test will have to be produced on an industrial scale though, presumably those involved are only too aware of that.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited April 2020
    eadric said:



    Yes. That’s (hopefully) the flaw in their data

    Well seeing the BBC report from a London ICU, one thing that really struck me, nowhere near the chaos we have seen in the likes of Italy or NY.

    It was clearly very busy, clearly very stressful, but no signs of 100s of patients rammed absolutely into every corner of the corridors etc.

    And now there is a lot of rumblings that the Excel centre may never really be needed and certainly unlikely to need the full 4,000 bed capacity.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225

    eadric said:

    We wanted some good news...
    twitter.com/marklevinshow/status/1247500269258190849?s=21

    “All we need to do is adjust the system to the new sequence,” he said. “We are in the middle of this process, and hopefully in a few weeks we will have the vaccine in our hands...

    MIGAL would be responsible for developing the new vaccine, but it would then have to go through a regulatory process, including clinical trials and large-scale production, Katz said.


    So it might be really cool and a solution, but they aren't even as far along as lots of the other candidates. They are simply saying they might have a different and better way of making vaccines.

    There is no way they can do full set of clinical trials in 90 days.
    The 90 days is to get regulatory approval for first human dosing, probably ?

    The pace of vaccine development has been almost unprecedented. But once they gets into clinical trials, there isn't much you can do to speed things up (except on the production side, Bill Gates style).
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,755

    eek said:

    Is this site for real?...

    https://covid19.healthdata.org

    Forecasting a first-wave total of 81k deaths for USA, 19k for Spain, 20k for Italy, 15k for France, 9k for Germany and, wait for it....

    66k for the UK (!)

    UK deaths to be triple those in Spain or Italy anyone?

    Well it's a website but the figures make little sense based on what we are actually seeing.
    The Graun has expanded on these findings here:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/apr/07/coronavirus-live-news-boris-johnson-intensive-care-uk-donald-trump-america-us-praying-recovery-latest-updates?page=with:block-5e8c626d8f08ec70cecec0de#block-5e8c626d8f08ec70cecec0de
    The projections on resource use show us (today) several times capacity both in overall beds and ICU beds. I think (unless I've really missed something in the news!) that this is not the case. As they seem to be projecting the high deaths mainly on the severe overwhelming of facilities, it appears that their estimates are overly pessimistic.

    Depends when they developed the model and how much it's updated with actual bed use (apparently not at all). The Imperial models probably show similar without the more severe lockdown
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,833
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Hope today delivers lots of joy, and you have a nice break from your labours.

    Happy Birthday!

    Why, thank you my fellow 1983er.

    Currently waiting for an apple strudel to cook.

    It cooked less well than I was hoping because I absentmindedly turned the oven off.
    Going somewhere nice?

    Ah.

    My daughter's birthday is on the 28th and the lack of a party is already being lamented almost daily.
    I treated myself to an hour’s bike ride across the Chase this morning.

    I’ve had phone calls and messages from family.

    This afternoon I have sun, a book, my garden and all my mates on PB to chat to.

    What more could anyone want?

    As @Cyclefree says, let us count our blessings.
    Indeed. I will raise a glass in your honour this evening.
    (Grasping the excuse.)
    I must admit, any given day at the moment is pleasant. I am rising later, retiring earlier, spending more time with my wife and children; we are exploring the bits of green space on our doorstep; making dens in the woods, teaching my youngest to ride a bike, gardening, baking. If it wasn't for the unfortunate challenge of also having to work for a living at the same time I would even say life is idyllic.

    The threat of illness and the almost certainty that some of those I love will die is unpleasant, as is the worry about whether the economy will recover. But if I can live in the moment, the now is actually a fine place to be.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Hoping Boris Johnson recovers very soon.
    I have been in similar position, frightening experience.

    Also seen my granddaughter on numerous occasions, fighting for life on oxygen.
    Very distressing to see.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    "YouTube tightens rules after David Icke 5G interview

    YouTube has banned all conspiracy theory videos falsely linking coronavirus symptoms to 5G networks.
    The Google-owned service will now delete videos violating the policy. It had previously limited itself to reducing the frequency it recommended them in its Up Next section.
    The move follows a live-streamed interview with conspiracy theorist David Icke on Monday, in which he had linked the technology to the pandemic.
    YouTube said the video would be wiped."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52198946
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited April 2020



    Rumblings?! They should be cheers. If the Excel centre is a completely unused resource that would be a magnificent thing.

    That's what I thought. But Sky, being awesome that they are, reported it as if the government will have wasted money on it. Same way as they were criticising Hancock for paying for the initial sample anti-body tests.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413

    eadric said:

    maaarsh said:

    Is this site for real?...

    https://covid19.healthdata.org

    Forecasting a first-wave total of 81k deaths for USA, 19k for Spain, 20k for Italy, 15k for France, 9k for Germany and, wait for it....

    66k for the UK (!)

    UK deaths to be triple those in Spain or Italy anyone?

    They're predicting today's number will be 1200 and it'll keep getting worse from here, so does indeed feel a little off.
    It’s not a crank website tho. University of Washington.

    It predicts the UK will have by far the worst plague outcome in the western world (per capita)

    We have to hope they are not just wrong, but wildly wrong. That’s grim
    They are basing it on the UK having fewer than 800 ICU beds. Odd.
    And fewer than 18k beds overall. How on Earth do they think we cope normally?
  • Cookie said:

    Has this been commented on? Seems that Porton Down is encouragingly close to a 'who has had it' test:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-tests-never-heard-hold-key-exit-lockdown/

    I'm a bit curious about where the scientists are pouring the blood samples
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601

    Is this site for real?...

    https://covid19.healthdata.org

    Forecasting a first-wave total of 81k deaths for USA, 19k for Spain, 20k for Italy, 15k for France, 9k for Germany and, wait for it....

    66k for the UK (!)

    UK deaths to be triple those in Spain or Italy anyone?

    (Edit: I see now the projection assumes the UK has a total of 799 ICU beds - might be why the death projection is so high.)

    There's no sign at the moment that UK deaths will be that high.
  • 758 more Covid-19 related deaths in England.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,833

    Cookie said:

    Has this been commented on? Seems that Porton Down is encouragingly close to a 'who has had it' test:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-tests-never-heard-hold-key-exit-lockdown/

    But according to some, we were doing f##k all until about a week ago...

    The work at Porton Down is understood to have been underway since January. Moreover, it plays to our skill set as a nation, based as it is on high-end science rather than the more mundane - but crucially important business - of high volume throughput or production.

    Experts say the first two months were spent validating high tech “assays” for reliably identifying coronavirus antibodies and designing a robust longitudinal blood sampling study. The first 800 blood samples were delivered to the laboritary in late February.

    Dr Stamataki added that it was these Porton Down assays that the commercial antibody tests which the government has taken options on are being validated against.
    It is encouraging. Any relaible test will have to be produced on an industrial scale though, presumably those involved are only too aware of that.
    Well perhaps, but well before you get to that stage you get a lot of the information you need just from a sample of the population. It would be good to know whether each individual has had it or not, but simply knowing what proportion of the population has had it is, I would argue, well over half the battle. Which is what they are currently trying to do.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    eadric said:
    Israel reckons it will have an orally administered vaccine within 21 days or so.

    If that is true, who would have backed it to win the global race?

    Extraordinary story.
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    maaarsh said:

    Is this site for real?...

    https://covid19.healthdata.org

    Forecasting a first-wave total of 81k deaths for USA, 19k for Spain, 20k for Italy, 15k for France, 9k for Germany and, wait for it....

    66k for the UK (!)

    UK deaths to be triple those in Spain or Italy anyone?

    They're predicting today's number will be 1200 and it'll keep getting worse from here, so does indeed feel a little off.
    It’s not a crank website tho. University of Washington.

    It predicts the UK will have by far the worst plague outcome in the western world (per capita)

    We have to hope they are not just wrong, but wildly wrong. That’s grim
    They are basing it on the UK having fewer than 800 ICU beds. Odd.

    eadric said:

    maaarsh said:

    Is this site for real?...

    https://covid19.healthdata.org

    Forecasting a first-wave total of 81k deaths for USA, 19k for Spain, 20k for Italy, 15k for France, 9k for Germany and, wait for it....

    66k for the UK (!)

    UK deaths to be triple those in Spain or Italy anyone?

    They're predicting today's number will be 1200 and it'll keep getting worse from here, so does indeed feel a little off.
    It’s not a crank website tho. University of Washington.

    It predicts the UK will have by far the worst plague outcome in the western world (per capita)

    We have to hope they are not just wrong, but wildly wrong. That’s grim
    They are basing it on the UK having fewer than 800 ICU beds. Odd.
    Yes. That’s (hopefully) the flaw in their data
    Well seeing the BBC report from a London ICU, one thing that really struck me, nowhere near the chaos we have seen in the likes of Italy or NY.

    And now there is a lot of rumblings that the Excel centre may never really be needed and certainly unlikely to need the full 4,000 bed capacity.
    Rumblings?! They should be cheers. If the Excel centre is a completely unused resource that would be a magnificent thing.
    also, the knowledge in what to do and how to do it is an important resource.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,833

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    maaarsh said:

    Is this site for real?...

    https://covid19.healthdata.org

    Forecasting a first-wave total of 81k deaths for USA, 19k for Spain, 20k for Italy, 15k for France, 9k for Germany and, wait for it....

    66k for the UK (!)

    UK deaths to be triple those in Spain or Italy anyone?

    They're predicting today's number will be 1200 and it'll keep getting worse from here, so does indeed feel a little off.
    It’s not a crank website tho. University of Washington.

    It predicts the UK will have by far the worst plague outcome in the western world (per capita)

    We have to hope they are not just wrong, but wildly wrong. That’s grim
    They are basing it on the UK having fewer than 800 ICU beds. Odd.

    eadric said:

    maaarsh said:

    Is this site for real?...

    https://covid19.healthdata.org

    Forecasting a first-wave total of 81k deaths for USA, 19k for Spain, 20k for Italy, 15k for France, 9k for Germany and, wait for it....

    66k for the UK (!)

    UK deaths to be triple those in Spain or Italy anyone?

    They're predicting today's number will be 1200 and it'll keep getting worse from here, so does indeed feel a little off.
    It’s not a crank website tho. University of Washington.

    It predicts the UK will have by far the worst plague outcome in the western world (per capita)

    We have to hope they are not just wrong, but wildly wrong. That’s grim
    They are basing it on the UK having fewer than 800 ICU beds. Odd.
    Yes. That’s (hopefully) the flaw in their data
    Well seeing the BBC report from a London ICU, one thing that really struck me, nowhere near the chaos we have seen in the likes of Italy or NY.

    And now there is a lot of rumblings that the Excel centre may never really be needed and certainly unlikely to need the full 4,000 bed capacity.
    Rumblings?! They should be cheers. If the Excel centre is a completely unused resource that would be a magnificent thing.
    Indeed.
    We're far from out of the woods yet. We could easily find that we are nowhere near the peak yet. But I agree - if the whole thing goes utterly unused, Hoo-bloody-ray.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370



    Rumblings?! They should be cheers. If the Excel centre is a completely unused resource that would be a magnificent thing.

    That's what I thought. But Sky, being awesome that they are, reported it as if the government will have wasted money on it. Same way as they were criticising Hancock for paying for the initial sample anti-body tests.
    Selebian said:

    eek said:

    Is this site for real?...

    https://covid19.healthdata.org

    Forecasting a first-wave total of 81k deaths for USA, 19k for Spain, 20k for Italy, 15k for France, 9k for Germany and, wait for it....

    66k for the UK (!)

    UK deaths to be triple those in Spain or Italy anyone?

    Well it's a website but the figures make little sense based on what we are actually seeing.
    The Graun has expanded on these findings here:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/apr/07/coronavirus-live-news-boris-johnson-intensive-care-uk-donald-trump-america-us-praying-recovery-latest-updates?page=with:block-5e8c626d8f08ec70cecec0de#block-5e8c626d8f08ec70cecec0de
    The projections on resource use show us (today) several times capacity both in overall beds and ICU beds. I think (unless I've really missed something in the news!) that this is not the case. As they seem to be projecting the high deaths mainly on the severe overwhelming of facilities, it appears that their estimates are overly pessimistic.

    Depends when they developed the model and how much it's updated with actual bed use (apparently not at all). The Imperial models probably show similar without the more severe lockdown
    Interesting that the Guardian doesn't comment on the obviously wrong numbers for hospital beds and ICU beds.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    That's a big leap from yesterday.

    I can understand figures jumping on a Monday due to weekend processing causing a spot of lag, but our numbers seem a bit jumpy, going down a bit, then up.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,833
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Has to be Raab, though.
    I'd say the two figures having the 'best' crisis are Hancock and Sunak. But they have contradictory aims: one is aiming , quite rightly, to minimise deaths, the other is aiming, equally rightly, to have an economy left to return to when this is over. There is tension between the two portfolios, and someone is needed to arbitrate between the two. It can't be one or the other. Raab is the most senior of those who are neither Hancock nor Sunak.

    I don't think the need will arise - since Boris will recover - but if it did I'd say Gove.
    Well hopefully you are right - but there is certainly the need now for a stand in until he does.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225

    eadric said:
    Israel reckons it will have an orally administered vaccine within 21 days or so.

    If that is true, who would have backed it to win the global race?

    Extraordinary story.
    Not really.
    “All we need to do is adjust the system to the new sequence,” he said. “We are in the middle of this process, and hopefully in a few weeks we will have the vaccine in our hands. Yes, in a few weeks, if it all works, we would have a vaccine to prevent coronavirus.”
    MIGAL would be responsible for developing the new vaccine, but it would then have to go through a regulatory process, including clinical trials and large-scale production, Katz said....


    They have yet even to start dosing human volunteers, so there are probably a good half a dozen groups ahead of them, possibly more.
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Has this been commented on? Seems that Porton Down is encouragingly close to a 'who has had it' test:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-tests-never-heard-hold-key-exit-lockdown/

    But according to some, we were doing f##k all until about a week ago...

    The work at Porton Down is understood to have been underway since January. Moreover, it plays to our skill set as a nation, based as it is on high-end science rather than the more mundane - but crucially important business - of high volume throughput or production.

    Experts say the first two months were spent validating high tech “assays” for reliably identifying coronavirus antibodies and designing a robust longitudinal blood sampling study. The first 800 blood samples were delivered to the laboritary in late February.

    Dr Stamataki added that it was these Porton Down assays that the commercial antibody tests which the government has taken options on are being validated against.
    It is encouraging. Any relaible test will have to be produced on an industrial scale though, presumably those involved are only too aware of that.
    Well perhaps, but well before you get to that stage you get a lot of the information you need just from a sample of the population. It would be good to know whether each individual has had it or not, but simply knowing what proportion of the population has had it is, I would argue, well over half the battle. Which is what they are currently trying to do.
    the population testing is a vital first step
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    maaarsh said:

    Is this site for real?...

    https://covid19.healthdata.org

    Forecasting a first-wave total of 81k deaths for USA, 19k for Spain, 20k for Italy, 15k for France, 9k for Germany and, wait for it....

    66k for the UK (!)

    UK deaths to be triple those in Spain or Italy anyone?

    They're predicting today's number will be 1200 and it'll keep getting worse from here, so does indeed feel a little off.
    It’s not a crank website tho. University of Washington.

    It predicts the UK will have by far the worst plague outcome in the western world (per capita)

    We have to hope they are not just wrong, but wildly wrong. That’s grim
    They are basing it on the UK having fewer than 800 ICU beds. Odd.

    eadric said:

    maaarsh said:

    Is this site for real?...

    https://covid19.healthdata.org

    Forecasting a first-wave total of 81k deaths for USA, 19k for Spain, 20k for Italy, 15k for France, 9k for Germany and, wait for it....

    66k for the UK (!)

    UK deaths to be triple those in Spain or Italy anyone?

    They're predicting today's number will be 1200 and it'll keep getting worse from here, so does indeed feel a little off.
    It’s not a crank website tho. University of Washington.

    It predicts the UK will have by far the worst plague outcome in the western world (per capita)

    We have to hope they are not just wrong, but wildly wrong. That’s grim
    They are basing it on the UK having fewer than 800 ICU beds. Odd.
    Yes. That’s (hopefully) the flaw in their data
    Well seeing the BBC report from a London ICU, one thing that really struck me, nowhere near the chaos we have seen in the likes of Italy or NY.

    And now there is a lot of rumblings that the Excel centre may never really be needed and certainly unlikely to need the full 4,000 bed capacity.
    Rumblings?! They should be cheers. If the Excel centre is a completely unused resource that would be a magnificent thing.
    Wonder if there will be pressure to keep it in mothballs over the winter - just in case? Or maybe they now know they can stick it up again in a week if they have to...
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Nigelb said:

    eadric said:
    Israel reckons it will have an orally administered vaccine within 21 days or so.

    If that is true, who would have backed it to win the global race?

    Extraordinary story.
    Not really.
    “All we need to do is adjust the system to the new sequence,” he said. “We are in the middle of this process, and hopefully in a few weeks we will have the vaccine in our hands. Yes, in a few weeks, if it all works, we would have a vaccine to prevent coronavirus.”
    MIGAL would be responsible for developing the new vaccine, but it would then have to go through a regulatory process, including clinical trials and large-scale production, Katz said....


    They have yet even to start dosing human volunteers, so there are probably a good half a dozen groups ahead of them, possibly more.
    Fair enough.

    As an aside, a market on which nation wins the global race for a vaccine would be good – and something positive to bet on.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited April 2020

    758 more Covid-19 related deaths in England.

    Christ, that's not good.

    I am intrigued. We are seeing the sort of level of deaths as Italy, Spain and France, but no real reports of hospitals crashing under the weight of cases. We have had a couple of hospitals have alerts, but nothing like in Northern Italy or Madrid, where hospitals were literally sinking under the shear volume of people, beds everywhere, people on floors, etc.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Hope today delivers lots of joy, and you have a nice break from your labours.

    Happy Birthday!

    Why, thank you my fellow 1983er.

    Currently waiting for an apple strudel to cook.

    It cooked less well than I was hoping because I absentmindedly turned the oven off.
    Going somewhere nice?

    Ah.

    My daughter's birthday is on the 28th and the lack of a party is already being lamented almost daily.
    Grandson's first driving lesson on public roads is/was scheduled for later this month. On his 17th birthday.
This discussion has been closed.