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  • Meanwhile, over at the we actually won the 2019 GE camp...

    https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1242795428283854848

    Good bye Corbyn. You wrecked the labour party
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Endillion said:

    Ok, new theory:

    - The first iteration of the novel coronavirus actually appeared at some point in mid 2019. As it was extremely infectious, millions of people round the world caught it.
    - This form was unpleasant, but almost invariably harmless, and generally cleared up in a few days to a few weeks. As a result, no one noticed at the time, nobody bothered developing antibody tests, classifying it, etc.
    - It then evolved into something quite nasty in Hubei, sometime in November 2019. The rapidly mounting death rate quickly brought it to the attention of the Chinese authorities.
    - Since then, there have been a few further major variants, with quite variable levels of aggression and general nastiness/associated mortality.
    - Crucially, having had one variant (including the first one) confers almost (but not complete) immunity for all the others.

    I know this is entirely guesswork. But it seems like it fits all the facts we have. It explains why:
    - the virus seems both incredibly infectious but also not to be spreading all that quickly
    - there are wildly different death rates in different countries
    - case rates seem to tail off after a while regardless of whether anyone does anything about it or not
    - The Imperial vs Oxford modelling on number of cases - they're both right, only the latter are including all variants and the former only the nasty one
    - The incredibly wide range of symptoms experienced by a range of people exposed to the the same disease, none of whom have any immunity to it
    - I and a bunch of people I know had all the symptons months before anyoen in China did

    What have I missed? The bat/pangolin research? Just a total failure to understand how epidemiology works?

    Cases in Lombardy in November?
    Fits perfectly. Could've got to Wuhan from Lombardy, or the other way round, and either way hit both regions simultaneously. Possibly was slower to take hold in Lombardy because there was more immunity in the local population from earlier waves.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    Foxy said:

    tyson said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Alistair said:

    Global Deaths still well ahead of this back of the fag packet calculation posted on Twitter a while ago, I had thought that by mid April the new death rate would be beating this chart but America looks like it is going to blow this apart.


    If smoking is an important factor, the USA might do better than expected since they have a relatively low rate.
    I thought non-smokers were much more likely to catch CV-19.
    Have you got a source for that?
    @Foxy posted a link, I think.

    IIRC they're less likely to get it, but have much worse outcomes if they do.
    Yes that was the finding in one of the early Coronavirus series from China. Only 15% who were treated had a history of smoking, rather lower than the Chinese average.

    I think though it was looking at younger people with infections. It was cited by the Singapore University resources.

    https://twitter.com/ubcprez/status/1239990410736357376?s=19


    Floater posted before that you have confirmed that the PPE equipment is OK for NHS frontline staff....is that correct?
    I wouldn't go as far as that. We have plenty of gloves, masks and aprons at Leicester. There are shortages of FFP3 masks and of the long sleeved gowns. The biggest practical issue is the ability to identify the patients that we need to use it on.
    I cannot obviously say where my nephew is...his ward now has 30 Covid's (non acute)..there are another 22 non covids segregated...and he doesn't feel safe....they have makeshifted stuff to feel safe





  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Nick Watt looking slightly peaky on Newsnight. Hope he’s okay!

    Or maybe all the makeup team are self isolating!
    I believe they are now doing their own makeup
    Unsurprisingly perhaps, the ladies on the show are far better at it!
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    Ok, new theory:

    - The first iteration of the novel coronavirus actually appeared at some point in mid 2019. As it was extremely infectious, millions of people round the world caught it.
    - This form was unpleasant, but almost invariably harmless, and generally cleared up in a few days to a few weeks. As a result, no one noticed at the time, nobody bothered developing antibody tests, classifying it, etc.
    - It then evolved into something quite nasty in Hubei, sometime in November 2019. The rapidly mounting death rate quickly brought it to the attention of the Chinese authorities.
    - Since then, there have been a few further major variants, with quite variable levels of aggression and general nastiness/associated mortality.
    - Crucially, having had one variant (including the first one) confers almost (but not complete) immunity for all the others.

    I know this is entirely guesswork. But it seems like it fits all the facts we have. It explains why:
    - the virus seems both incredibly infectious but also not to be spreading all that quickly
    - there are wildly different death rates in different countries
    - case rates seem to tail off after a while regardless of whether anyone does anything about it or not
    - The Imperial vs Oxford modelling on number of cases - they're both right, only the latter are including all variants and the former only the nasty one
    - The incredibly wide range of symptoms experienced by a range of people exposed to the the same disease, none of whom have any immunity to it
    - I and a bunch of people I know had all the symptons months before anyoen in China did

    What have I missed? The bat/pangolin research? Just a total failure to understand how epidemiology works?

    Cases in Lombardy in November?
    Fits perfectly. Could've got to Wuhan from Lombardy, or the other way round, and either way hit both regions simultaneously. Possibly was slower to take hold in Lombardy because there was more immunity in the local population from earlier waves.
    Beijing appreciates your efforts Comrade.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,880
    TGOHF666 said:

    Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    Ok, new theory:

    - The first iteration of the novel coronavirus actually appeared at some point in mid 2019. As it was extremely infectious, millions of people round the world caught it.
    - This form was unpleasant, but almost invariably harmless, and generally cleared up in a few days to a few weeks. As a result, no one noticed at the time, nobody bothered developing antibody tests, classifying it, etc.
    - It then evolved into something quite nasty in Hubei, sometime in November 2019. The rapidly mounting death rate quickly brought it to the attention of the Chinese authorities.
    - Since then, there have been a few further major variants, with quite variable levels of aggression and general nastiness/associated mortality.
    - Crucially, having had one variant (including the first one) confers almost (but not complete) immunity for all the others.

    I know this is entirely guesswork. But it seems like it fits all the facts we have. It explains why:
    - the virus seems both incredibly infectious but also not to be spreading all that quickly
    - there are wildly different death rates in different countries
    - case rates seem to tail off after a while regardless of whether anyone does anything about it or not
    - The Imperial vs Oxford modelling on number of cases - they're both right, only the latter are including all variants and the former only the nasty one
    - The incredibly wide range of symptoms experienced by a range of people exposed to the the same disease, none of whom have any immunity to it
    - I and a bunch of people I know had all the symptons months before anyoen in China did

    What have I missed? The bat/pangolin research? Just a total failure to understand how epidemiology works?

    Cases in Lombardy in November?
    Fits perfectly. Could've got to Wuhan from Lombardy, or the other way round, and either way hit both regions simultaneously. Possibly was slower to take hold in Lombardy because there was more immunity in the local population from earlier waves.
    Beijing appreciates your efforts Comrade.
    #DonaldtheButcher
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited March 2020

    ...and the winner is... Rebecca Long Bailey??

    33/1
    The only way she wins based on the polls is if most Labour members have not received a ballot paper, in which case Starmer would likely succeed in overturning the result in the courts anyway
  • Nick Watt looking slightly peaky on Newsnight. Hope he’s okay!

    Or maybe all the makeup team are self isolating!
    I believe they are now doing their own makeup
    Unsurprisingly perhaps, the ladies on the show are far better at it!
    As I have never worn makeup it would not be a problem for me
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,386

    Meanwhile, over at the we actually won the 2019 GE camp...

    https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1242795428283854848

    Good bye Corbyn. You wrecked the labour party
    To be fair BigG he had many, many willing helpers to turn it into the utter joke we now see before us.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    Endillion said:

    Ok, new theory:

    - The first iteration of the novel coronavirus actually appeared at some point in mid 2019. As it was extremely infectious, millions of people round the world caught it.
    - This form was unpleasant, but almost invariably harmless, and generally cleared up in a few days to a few weeks. As a result, no one noticed at the time, nobody bothered developing antibody tests, classifying it, etc.
    - It then evolved into something quite nasty in Hubei, sometime in November 2019. The rapidly mounting death rate quickly brought it to the attention of the Chinese authorities.
    - Since then, there have been a few further major variants, with quite variable levels of aggression and general nastiness/associated mortality.
    - Crucially, having had one variant (including the first one) confers almost (but not complete) immunity for all the others.

    I know this is entirely guesswork. But it seems like it fits all the facts we have. It explains why:
    - the virus seems both incredibly infectious but also not to be spreading all that quickly
    - there are wildly different death rates in different countries
    - case rates seem to tail off after a while regardless of whether anyone does anything about it or not
    - The Imperial vs Oxford modelling on number of cases - they're both right, only the latter are including all variants and the former only the nasty one
    - The incredibly wide range of symptoms experienced by a range of people exposed to the the same disease, none of whom have any immunity to it
    - I and a bunch of people I know had all the symptons months before anyoen in China did

    What have I missed? The bat/pangolin research? Just a total failure to understand how epidemiology works?

    Ant eaters the worlds most trafficked animals? That’s less WWF more WTF!
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    edited March 2020

    Its Ischgl, the Austrian ski-resort again. They are in big shit if they as alleged covered this up.
    This claim looks very doubtful to me. The man is said to have left Ischgl on 19 January. The earliest confirmed cases in Europe were in France on 24 January and there were no confirmed cases in Austria until 25 February. The cases exported from Ischgl and the alleged cover-up were in late February.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    IanB2 said:

    Endillion said:

    Ok, new theory:

    - The first iteration of the novel coronavirus actually appeared at some point in mid 2019. As it was extremely infectious, millions of people round the world caught it.
    - This form was unpleasant, but almost invariably harmless, and generally cleared up in a few days to a few weeks. As a result, no one noticed at the time, nobody bothered developing antibody tests, classifying it, etc.
    - It then evolved into something quite nasty in Hubei, sometime in November 2019. The rapidly mounting death rate quickly brought it to the attention of the Chinese authorities.
    - Since then, there have been a few further major variants, with quite variable levels of aggression and general nastiness/associated mortality.
    - Crucially, having had one variant (including the first one) confers almost (but not complete) immunity for all the others.

    I know this is entirely guesswork. But it seems like it fits all the facts we have. It explains why:
    - the virus seems both incredibly infectious but also not to be spreading all that quickly
    - there are wildly different death rates in different countries
    - case rates seem to tail off after a while regardless of whether anyone does anything about it or not
    - The Imperial vs Oxford modelling on number of cases - they're both right, only the latter are including all variants and the former only the nasty one
    - The incredibly wide range of symptoms experienced by a range of people exposed to the the same disease, none of whom have any immunity to it
    - I and a bunch of people I know had all the symptons months before anyoen in China did

    What have I missed? The bat/pangolin research? Just a total failure to understand how epidemiology works?

    Incredibly infectious is over stating things. I believe the chance of transmission on single contact has been estimated at 5%. Both the ski chalet and the cruise ship shows that it is possible to have repeated exposure and still not catch it.
    Indeed. What is the infection rate of the Common Cold? That said, I haven’t had a cold for nearly five years, since a ward doctor mate told me just to wash my hands and under my nails several times a day. One of the best pieces of life advice I have ever had.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    edited March 2020

    tyson said:

    tyson said:

    Over 500,000 people have now volunteered. Really amazing to see.

    Even beyond Cavid Cameron's dreams of a big society

    It speaks volumns for our country and how love trumps hate

    And I think this is the start of a much more compassionate country, at least lets hope so

    I'm very curious...why do you think I was making a political point when I was querying NHS staff being unprotected?

    I would have been equally appalled about the equipment members of my family have been given during a Labour Govt...probably more so because I would have expected a Labour Govt to have known better....
    The way you attack my support for Boris and HMG but to be honest Tyson I do care about your family, indeed for everyone on the front line, and please accept that I do not want to fall out with you or anyone to be honest

    I hope your family get the PPE they need and just a little personal point, my dear niece and her husband have both gone down with covid 19 and are making a slow and painful recovery
    I am really, really sorry to hear about your family being ill....this is truly a terrible time that is impacting on all us in some way........


    It is Tyson and I am sorry if I upset you
    ..you are decent bloke Big_G...that is why I can get frustrated with you when I wouldn't even bother with others.......

    I think we agree on 75% of everything...maybe more....and maybe more than that...notably that Corbyn was a disaster...

    And...I do think that Johnson et al are pointing (belatedly) in the right direction with Covid 19.....


    I'm off to bed.....

    Goodnight
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    tyson said:

    Foxy said:

    tyson said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Alistair said:

    Global Deaths still well ahead of this back of the fag packet calculation posted on Twitter a while ago, I had thought that by mid April the new death rate would be beating this chart but America looks like it is going to blow this apart.


    If smoking is an important factor, the USA might do better than expected since they have a relatively low rate.
    I thought non-smokers were much more likely to catch CV-19.
    Have you got a source for that?
    @Foxy posted a link, I think.

    IIRC they're less likely to get it, but have much worse outcomes if they do.
    Yes that was the finding in one of the early Coronavirus series from China. Only 15% who were treated had a history of smoking, rather lower than the Chinese average.

    I think though it was looking at younger people with infections. It was cited by the Singapore University resources.

    https://twitter.com/ubcprez/status/1239990410736357376?s=19


    Floater posted before that you have confirmed that the PPE equipment is OK for NHS frontline staff....is that correct?
    I wouldn't go as far as that. We have plenty of gloves, masks and aprons at Leicester. There are shortages of FFP3 masks and of the long sleeved gowns. The biggest practical issue is the ability to identify the patients that we need to use it on.
    I cannot obviously say where my nephew is...his ward now has 30 Covid's (non acute)..there are another 22 non covids segregated...and he doesn't feel safe....they have makeshifted stuff to feel safe

    Sounds bad. In Leicester we have 34 confirmed inpatients and 6 deaths. Lots of suspect cases though.
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    egg said:
    The US can hit up to 80,000 flu deaths in a bad season / 4000 deaths a week. So deaths at the rate being seen are not unprecedented.
  • Meanwhile, over at the we actually won the 2019 GE camp...

    https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1242795428283854848

    Good bye Corbyn. You wrecked the labour party
    To be fair BigG he had many, many willing helpers to turn it into the utter joke we now see before us.
    Indeed and it does sadden me to be honest.

    I know Blair is toxic now but I voted for him twice
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,386
    HYUFD said:

    ...and the winner is... Rebecca Long Bailey??

    33/1
    The only way she wins based on the polls is if most Labour members have not received a ballot paper, in which case Starmer would likely succeed in overturning the result in the courts anyway
    Point 1 Correct. Point 2 That will look really, really professional for a party preparing for government...not!
  • tyson said:

    tyson said:

    tyson said:

    Over 500,000 people have now volunteered. Really amazing to see.

    Even beyond Cavid Cameron's dreams of a big society

    It speaks volumns for our country and how love trumps hate

    And I think this is the start of a much more compassionate country, at least lets hope so

    I'm very curious...why do you think I was making a political point when I was querying NHS staff being unprotected?

    I would have been equally appalled about the equipment members of my family have been given during a Labour Govt...probably more so because I would have expected a Labour Govt to have known better....
    The way you attack my support for Boris and HMG but to be honest Tyson I do care about your family, indeed for everyone on the front line, and please accept that I do not want to fall out with you or anyone to be honest

    I hope your family get the PPE they need and just a little personal point, my dear niece and her husband have both gone down with covid 19 and are making a slow and painful recovery
    I am really, really sorry to hear about your family being ill....this is truly a terrible time that is impacting on all us in some way........


    It is Tyson and I am sorry if I upset you
    ..you are decent bloke Big_G...that is why I can get frustrated with you when I wouldn't even bother with others.......

    I think we agree on 75% of everything...maybe more....and maybe more than that...notably that Corbyn was a disaster...

    And...I do think that Johnson et al are pointing (belatedly) in the right direction with Covid 19.....


    I'm off to bed.....

    Goodnight
    Have a good night Tyson.

    Nice to be back on the same page, more or less
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    JonathanD said:

    egg said:
    The US can hit up to 80,000 flu deaths in a bad season / 4000 deaths a week. So deaths at the rate being seen are not unprecedented.
    Once again, this is not the Flu. The duration of inpatient care and ventilation required for COVID19 is 5-10 times that of Flu. If we cannot meet that demand, preventable fatalities will steeply increase.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,386

    Meanwhile, over at the we actually won the 2019 GE camp...

    https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1242795428283854848

    Good bye Corbyn. You wrecked the labour party
    To be fair BigG he had many, many willing helpers to turn it into the utter joke we now see before us.
    Indeed and it does sadden me to be honest.

    I know Blair is toxic now but I voted for him twice
    Blair's toxixity was predominantly distilled by the Corbyn faction within the Labour Party. He still won an election post-Iraq!
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,285


    Population samples from China, Italy, Iceland and the U.S. provide relevant evidence. On or around Jan. 31, countries sent planes to evacuate citizens from Wuhan, China. When those planes landed, the passengers were tested for Covid-19 and quarantined. After 14 days, the percentage who tested positive was 0.9%. If this was the prevalence in the greater Wuhan area on Jan. 31, then, with a population of about 20 million, greater Wuhan had 178,000 infections, about 30-fold more than the number of reported cases. The fatality rate, then, would be at least 10-fold lower than estimates based on reported cases.

    Not sure about that. I would be wondering how many were infected on the rescue flights rather than in China.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,622
    tyson said:

    RobD said:

    tyson said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Alistair said:

    Global Deaths still well ahead of this back of the fag packet calculation posted on Twitter a while ago, I had thought that by mid April the new death rate would be beating this chart but America looks like it is going to blow this apart.


    If smoking is an important factor, the USA might do better than expected since they have a relatively low rate.
    I thought non-smokers were much more likely to catch CV-19.
    Have you got a source for that?
    @Foxy posted a link, I think.

    IIRC they're less likely to get it, but have much worse outcomes if they do.
    Yes that was the finding in one of the early Coronavirus series from China. Only 15% who were treated had a history of smoking, rather lower than the Chinese average.

    I think though it was looking at younger people with infections. It was cited by the Singapore University resources.

    https://twitter.com/ubcprez/status/1239990410736357376?s=19


    Floater posted before that you have confirmed that the PPE equipment is OK for NHS frontline staff....is that correct?
    Didn't they just get 15 million masks and 25 million gloves?
    As of today...and I carry on bleating on about this...my family are working in NHS wards and do not feel safe...

    I have a good friend in St Thomas's...I will name this...who is working on a respiratory ward who is given the right equipment....

    I was surprised too hear Floater telling me that Fox has said that all is well



    Do you think it is the government's job to micro-manage everything which takes place in the NHS ?

    Now does the NHS have a 100% guaranteed level of resources for every possible event ?

    Of course it doesn't and nor could it and for that matter nor could any of us.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Nick Watt looking slightly peaky on Newsnight. Hope he’s okay!

    Or maybe all the makeup team are self isolating!
    I believe they are now doing their own makeup
    Unsurprisingly perhaps, the ladies on the show are far better at it!
    As I have never worn makeup it would not be a problem for me
    I guess you have never been on telly either. The studio lights are brutal. Even beery blokes need makeup.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited March 2020

    Meanwhile, over at the we actually won the 2019 GE camp...

    https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1242795428283854848

    Good bye Corbyn. You wrecked the labour party
    I was never a Corbynite - but at both the elections he fought as Leader, he outpolled Ed Milliband and Gordon Brown.
  • Foxy said:

    JonathanD said:

    egg said:
    The US can hit up to 80,000 flu deaths in a bad season / 4000 deaths a week. So deaths at the rate being seen are not unprecedented.
    Once again, this is not the Flu. The duration of inpatient care and ventilation required for COVID19 is 5-10 times that of Flu. If we cannot meet that demand, preventable fatalities will steeply increase.
    Will a vaccine be found for covid 19
  • Nick Watt looking slightly peaky on Newsnight. Hope he’s okay!

    Or maybe all the makeup team are self isolating!
    I believe they are now doing their own makeup
    Unsurprisingly perhaps, the ladies on the show are far better at it!
    As I have never worn makeup it would not be a problem for me
    I guess you have never been on telly either. The studio lights are brutal. Even beery blokes need makeup.
    I have been interviewed in the past but that was a long time ago
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    IanB2 said:

    Endillion said:

    Ok, new theory:

    - The first iteration of the novel coronavirus actually appeared at some point in mid 2019. As it was extremely infectious, millions of people round the world caught it.
    - This form was unpleasant, but almost invariably harmless, and generally cleared up in a few days to a few weeks. As a result, no one noticed at the time, nobody bothered developing antibody tests, classifying it, etc.
    - It then evolved into something quite nasty in Hubei, sometime in November 2019. The rapidly mounting death rate quickly brought it to the attention of the Chinese authorities.
    - Since then, there have been a few further major variants, with quite variable levels of aggression and general nastiness/associated mortality.
    - Crucially, having had one variant (including the first one) confers almost (but not complete) immunity for all the others.

    I know this is entirely guesswork. But it seems like it fits all the facts we have. It explains why:
    - the virus seems both incredibly infectious but also not to be spreading all that quickly
    - there are wildly different death rates in different countries
    - case rates seem to tail off after a while regardless of whether anyone does anything about it or not
    - The Imperial vs Oxford modelling on number of cases - they're both right, only the latter are including all variants and the former only the nasty one
    - The incredibly wide range of symptoms experienced by a range of people exposed to the the same disease, none of whom have any immunity to it
    - I and a bunch of people I know had all the symptons months before anyoen in China did

    What have I missed? The bat/pangolin research? Just a total failure to understand how epidemiology works?

    Incredibly infectious is over stating things. I believe the chance of transmission on single contact has been estimated at 5%. Both the ski chalet and the cruise ship shows that it is possible to have repeated exposure and still not catch it.
    Aha! Indeed. But that picture changes dramatically if a significant proportion on the cruise ship and at the ski chalet had already had a previous iteration. Which they would have, if the previous iteration had been predominantly in the West, rather than China. But they'd still test negative, because we don't have a test that identifies antibodies.
  • justin124 said:

    Meanwhile, over at the we actually won the 2019 GE camp...

    https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1242795428283854848

    Good bye Corbyn. You wrecked the labour party
    I was never a Corbynite - but at both the elections he fought as Leader, he outpolled Ed Milliband and Gordon Brown.
    And lost
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Foxy said:

    JonathanD said:

    egg said:
    The US can hit up to 80,000 flu deaths in a bad season / 4000 deaths a week. So deaths at the rate being seen are not unprecedented.
    Once again, this is not the Flu. The duration of inpatient care and ventilation required for COVID19 is 5-10 times that of Flu. If we cannot meet that demand, preventable fatalities will steeply increase.
    Will a vaccine be found for covid 19
    I expect so. The problem is timing...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,386
    Hunt on Peston now.

    Very smart, he knows his subject and is talking cogently about Covid-19.
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    JonathanD said:

    egg said:
    The US can hit up to 80,000 flu deaths in a bad season / 4000 deaths a week. So deaths at the rate being seen are not unprecedented.
    Once again, this is not the Flu. The duration of inpatient care and ventilation required for COVID19 is 5-10 times that of Flu. If we cannot meet that demand, preventable fatalities will steeply increase.
    Will a vaccine be found for covid 19
    I expect so. The problem is timing...
    Thanks because earlier the question was asked

    All the best and keep safe
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    I hear my local A and E is very busy - if what I hear is true some very dumb people rocking up to A and E with symptoms.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,386

    justin124 said:

    Meanwhile, over at the we actually won the 2019 GE camp...

    https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1242795428283854848

    Good bye Corbyn. You wrecked the labour party
    I was never a Corbynite - but at both the elections he fought as Leader, he outpolled Ed Milliband and Gordon Brown.
    And lost
    Once again, in fairness to Corbyn they all did!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    Given her reaction I cannot imagine why the government perhaps engaged in a strategy of phasing in changes to prepare people for a bad situation coming up rather than ran around like headless chickens from the off.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    justin124 said:

    Meanwhile, over at the we actually won the 2019 GE camp...

    https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1242795428283854848

    Good bye Corbyn. You wrecked the labour party
    I was never a Corbynite - but at both the elections he fought as Leader, he outpolled Ed Milliband and Gordon Brown.
    And lost
    against May and her Kryptonite manifesto.......
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    I am absolutely loving "LameStream Media". It's the capital S that tips it over the top.

    If I was a Democrat politician in the US, I think I'd constantly refer to my opponents as the Publican party. On the other side, I think I'd go with Lemoncrat.
  • ABZABZ Posts: 441
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    JonathanD said:

    egg said:
    The US can hit up to 80,000 flu deaths in a bad season / 4000 deaths a week. So deaths at the rate being seen are not unprecedented.
    Once again, this is not the Flu. The duration of inpatient care and ventilation required for COVID19 is 5-10 times that of Flu. If we cannot meet that demand, preventable fatalities will steeply increase.
    Will a vaccine be found for covid 19
    I expect so. The problem is timing...
    It's tricky. The modern vaccine technologies are incredible (relative to what we're used to), but the testing procedure is incredibly rigorous since a bad vaccine can easily be worse than no vaccine. More likely we get anti-virals (that may have prophylactic properties) developed that can stop a certain fraction of cases progressing to more serious symptoms, making the disease much more manageable. There are numerous ongoing clinical trials that should report in the next 4 weeks or so I think. In the short term that will be more promising I think.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119

    Hunt on Peston now.

    Very smart, he knows his subject and is talking cogently about Covid-19.

    I thought he had some very good ideas early on e.g. about running a skeleton school just for key workers.
  • Floater said:

    I hear my local A and E is very busy - if what I hear is true some very dumb people rocking up to A and E with symptoms.

    I am surprised that they got through the door
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153

    Meanwhile, over at the we actually won the 2019 GE camp...

    https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1242795428283854848

    If he's a titan for wanting change it doesn't really leave many superlatives for those who actually get to implement some.

    And opponents nicking your policies only half counts.
  • ABZABZ Posts: 441
    Floater said:

    I hear my local A and E is very busy - if what I hear is true some very dumb people rocking up to A and E with symptoms.

    Oh dear... people partying over the past few days?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    tyson said:

    RobD said:

    tyson said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Alistair said:

    Global Deaths still well ahead of this back of the fag packet calculation posted on Twitter a while ago, I had thought that by mid April the new death rate would be beating this chart but America looks like it is going to blow this apart.


    If smoking is an important factor, the USA might do better than expected since they have a relatively low rate.
    I thought non-smokers were much more likely to catch CV-19.
    Have you got a source for that?
    @Foxy posted a link, I think.

    IIRC they're less likely to get it, but have much worse outcomes if they do.
    Yes that was the finding in one of the early Coronavirus series from China. Only 15% who were treated had a history of smoking, rather lower than the Chinese average.

    I think though it was looking at younger people with infections. It was cited by the Singapore University resources.

    https://twitter.com/ubcprez/status/1239990410736357376?s=19


    Floater posted before that you have confirmed that the PPE equipment is OK for NHS frontline staff....is that correct?
    Didn't they just get 15 million masks and 25 million gloves?
    As of today...and I carry on bleating on about this...my family are working in NHS wards and do not feel safe...

    I have a good friend in St Thomas's...I will name this...who is working on a respiratory ward who is given the right equipment....

    I was surprised too hear Floater telling me that Fox has said that all is well



    Do you think it is the government's job to micro-manage everything which takes place in the NHS ?

    Now does the NHS have a 100% guaranteed level of resources for every possible event ?

    Of course it doesn't and nor could it and for that matter nor could any of us.
    Tyson is also misquoting me - but hey ho
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    Meanwhile, over at the we actually won the 2019 GE camp...

    https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1242795428283854848

    Good bye Corbyn. You wrecked the labour party
    I was never a Corbynite - but at both the elections he fought as Leader, he outpolled Ed Milliband and Gordon Brown.
    And lost
    No party won the 2017 election.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Nick Watt looking slightly peaky on Newsnight. Hope he’s okay!

    Or maybe all the makeup team are self isolating!
    I believe they are now doing their own makeup
    Unsurprisingly perhaps, the ladies on the show are far better at it!
    As I have never worn makeup it would not be a problem for me
    I guess you have never been on telly either. The studio lights are brutal. Even beery blokes need makeup.
    I have been interviewed in the past but that was a long time ago
    I dare say G you were the 1 in 1000 that didn’t need the powder.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    I’ve met a wonderful woman on a dating app, but I can’t meet her for months. This truly is tragic.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    ABZ said:

    Floater said:

    I hear my local A and E is very busy - if what I hear is true some very dumb people rocking up to A and E with symptoms.

    Oh dear... people partying over the past few days?
    It sounds like a fair number are exhibiting Covid symptoms - they should NOT be going to A and E
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    Meanwhile, over at the we actually won the 2019 GE camp...

    https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1242795428283854848

    Good bye Corbyn. You wrecked the labour party
    I was never a Corbynite - but at both the elections he fought as Leader, he outpolled Ed Milliband and Gordon Brown.
    And lost
    No party won the 2017 election.
    Remind me who formed the Government
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    Endillion said:

    I am absolutely loving "LameStream Media". It's the capital S that tips it over the top.
    I'll say this - it at least makes more sense than being a mainstream media outlet that continually rails against the mainstream media.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,386
    edited March 2020

    Hunt on Peston now.

    Very smart, he knows his subject and is talking cogently about Covid-19.

    I thought he had some very good ideas early on e.g. about running a skeleton school just for key workers.
    When he was Secretary of State for Health, I though he was an absolute dick! I was wrong, the guy is wasted on the back benches.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,767
    B & Q:

    The COVID-19 crisis continues to evolve, so I wanted to update you on some changes here at B&Q.
    Over the last 48 hours we have been working hard to create a service that focuses on providing essential products for repair and maintenance of the home. This means we can keep supplies open and give our customers the best possible service to ensure their homes are safe, warm and in working order.
    In order to do this in the safest possible way for our colleagues and customers, we are making some changes:
    • Our website, diy.com, will be our primary store, giving customers access to a range of essential products.
    • The Click+Collect range will be reduced to ensure we do everything we can to limit unnecessary purchases, so that our customers and colleagues are protected from needless contact.
    • Customers can now use our new contactless Click+Collect service from their local store. This will allow you to pick up items from an allocated parking zone and we will bring products to your car.
    • We are working on our home delivery service to enable us to provide a fuller product range.
    • Stores will remain closed to customers for browsing and purchasing.
    We urge you to follow all the Government’s social distancing guidelines and to shop responsibly for essential needs only. The safety of customers and colleagues remains our top priority.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Floater said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    Meanwhile, over at the we actually won the 2019 GE camp...

    https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1242795428283854848

    Good bye Corbyn. You wrecked the labour party
    I was never a Corbynite - but at both the elections he fought as Leader, he outpolled Ed Milliband and Gordon Brown.
    And lost
    No party won the 2017 election.
    Remind me who formed the Government
    That was courtesy of the DUP.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119

    I’ve met a wonderful woman on a dating app, but I can’t meet her for months. This truly is tragic.

    Can't you FaceTime?
  • ABZABZ Posts: 441
    Floater said:

    ABZ said:

    Floater said:

    I hear my local A and E is very busy - if what I hear is true some very dumb people rocking up to A and E with symptoms.

    Oh dear... people partying over the past few days?
    It sounds like a fair number are exhibiting Covid symptoms - they should NOT be going to A and E

    Oh - I mis-read (too late!), i thought they were being taken to the hospital. That really is disappointing that people can't follow the basic instructions...
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    I’ve met a wonderful woman on a dating app, but I can’t meet her for months. This truly is tragic.

    That is sad but something to look forward to on the other side of this
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,386
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    Meanwhile, over at the we actually won the 2019 GE camp...

    https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1242795428283854848

    Good bye Corbyn. You wrecked the labour party
    I was never a Corbynite - but at both the elections he fought as Leader, he outpolled Ed Milliband and Gordon Brown.
    And lost
    No party won the 2017 election.
    ...but Labour lost bigger than the Tories.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    justin124 said:

    Floater said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    Meanwhile, over at the we actually won the 2019 GE camp...

    https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1242795428283854848

    Good bye Corbyn. You wrecked the labour party
    I was never a Corbynite - but at both the elections he fought as Leader, he outpolled Ed Milliband and Gordon Brown.
    And lost
    No party won the 2017 election.
    Remind me who formed the Government
    That was courtesy of the DUP.
    So not Labour then ... who therefore lost
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    I’ve met a wonderful woman on a dating app, but I can’t meet her for months. This truly is tragic.

    Think of it as a Victorian romance!
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Foxy said:

    I’ve met a wonderful woman on a dating app, but I can’t meet her for months. This truly is tragic.

    Think of it as a Victorian romance!
    I was thinking that

  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Floater said:

    justin124 said:

    Floater said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    Meanwhile, over at the we actually won the 2019 GE camp...

    https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1242795428283854848

    Good bye Corbyn. You wrecked the labour party
    I was never a Corbynite - but at both the elections he fought as Leader, he outpolled Ed Milliband and Gordon Brown.
    And lost
    No party won the 2017 election.
    Remind me who formed the Government
    That was courtesy of the DUP.
    So not Labour then ... who therefore lost
    They all lost - ditto in 2010 .
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Some people still not getting the message,

    https://twitter.com/DerbysPolice/status/1242753532362739713?s=20

    They seem to think this is like the big holiday when you were at school.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    I’ve met a wonderful woman on a dating app, but I can’t meet her for months. This truly is tragic.

    Can't you FaceTime?
    Of course! But that’s not the same! ;)

    Bear in mind that my post was pretty tongue in cheek, if you excuse the expression, I realize this is not an actual problem in the grand scheme of things!
  • Nick Watt looking slightly peaky on Newsnight. Hope he’s okay!

    Or maybe all the makeup team are self isolating!
    I believe they are now doing their own makeup
    Unsurprisingly perhaps, the ladies on the show are far better at it!
    As I have never worn makeup it would not be a problem for me
    I guess you have never been on telly either. The studio lights are brutal. Even beery blokes need makeup.
    I have been interviewed in the past but that was a long time ago
    I dare say G you were the 1 in 1000 that didn’t need the powder.
    Yes just plain me
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Andy_JS said:

    Endillion said:

    Ok, new theory:

    - The first iteration of the novel coronavirus actually appeared at some point in mid 2019. As it was extremely infectious, millions of people round the world caught it.
    - This form was unpleasant, but almost invariably harmless, and generally cleared up in a few days to a few weeks. As a result, no one noticed at the time, nobody bothered developing antibody tests, classifying it, etc.
    - It then evolved into something quite nasty in Hubei, sometime in November 2019. The rapidly mounting death rate quickly brought it to the attention of the Chinese authorities.
    - Since then, there have been a few further major variants, with quite variable levels of aggression and general nastiness/associated mortality.
    - Crucially, having had one variant (including the first one) confers almost (but not complete) immunity for all the others.

    I know this is entirely guesswork. But it seems like it fits all the facts we have. It explains why:
    - the virus seems both incredibly infectious but also not to be spreading all that quickly
    - there are wildly different death rates in different countries
    - case rates seem to tail off after a while regardless of whether anyone does anything about it or not
    - The Imperial vs Oxford modelling on number of cases - they're both right, only the latter are including all variants and the former only the nasty one
    - The incredibly wide range of symptoms experienced by a range of people exposed to the the same disease, none of whom have any immunity to it
    - I and a bunch of people I know had all the symptons months before anyoen in China did

    What have I missed? The bat/pangolin research? Just a total failure to understand how epidemiology works?

    That would perhaps explain why so many people had a terrible cold in December, including me.
    It would be nice to think that the 3 month cough I had from early December had granted me immunity!
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    justin124 said:

    Floater said:

    justin124 said:

    Floater said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    Meanwhile, over at the we actually won the 2019 GE camp...

    https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1242795428283854848

    Good bye Corbyn. You wrecked the labour party
    I was never a Corbynite - but at both the elections he fought as Leader, he outpolled Ed Milliband and Gordon Brown.
    And lost
    No party won the 2017 election.
    Remind me who formed the Government
    That was courtesy of the DUP.
    So not Labour then ... who therefore lost
    They all lost - ditto in 2010 .
    I hate to break it to you as you seem to be struggling with this.

    The aim is to be in Government - if you form a government you have won.

    Labour could not, they lost
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,767
    Mail:

    "Rapper M.I.A. has revealed she is anti-vaccination and would 'choose death' over getting a coronavirus vaccination amid the ongoing pandemic.

    The Paper Planes hitmaker, 44, declared her stance on vaccinations and expressed her regret at being 'made to' vaccinate her son, 11, before he started school in a series of tweets on Wednesday.

    The musician, real name Mathangi Arulpragasam, wrote: 'If I have to choose the vaccine or chip I'm gonna choose death.'


    Mad.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    NHS staff are being targeted by muggers trying to steal their identity badges so they can use them to obtain the free food and drinks being offered to doctors and nurses tackling coronavirus.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/25/nhs-staff-warned-to-hide-id-after-spate-of-targeted-muggings
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    edited March 2020
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    Meanwhile, over at the we actually won the 2019 GE camp...

    https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1242795428283854848

    Good bye Corbyn. You wrecked the labour party
    I was never a Corbynite - but at both the elections he fought as Leader, he outpolled Ed Milliband and Gordon Brown.
    And lost
    No party won the 2017 election.
    There are degrees of victory. Did Labour lose the 2017 New Zealand GE? By many measures, yes, but they still got their leader in as PM so by gaining sufficient seats to form a majority with others they won it more than anyone else did. The National party got most votes and seats yet still lost the election as a result. Did the Tories win the 2017 UK GE? Not outright, but they won sufficient support and seats to remain in power and Corbyn and Labour did not win enough to gain power.

    That no one won outright does not mean that no one lost, or that one did not clearly lose more than the other. Labour made good ground, but still lost. They lost in votes, they lost in seats, and they lost by not gaining power. They just plain lost.

    The Tories cocked up but still came top and retained power. It was a qualified victory, one which hamstrung them for over 2 years, but it was enough of a victory.

    Pretending everyone lost is based on a rather silly absolute view victory as requiring a majority.

    Or more succinctly

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    Meanwhile, over at the we actually won the 2019 GE camp...

    https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1242795428283854848

    Good bye Corbyn. You wrecked the labour party
    I was never a Corbynite - but at both the elections he fought as Leader, he outpolled Ed Milliband and Gordon Brown.
    And lost
    No party won the 2017 election.
    ...but Labour lost bigger than the Tories.
    And sometimes that's all you need to 'win'.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,386

    Some people still not getting the message,

    https://twitter.com/DerbysPolice/status/1242753532362739713?s=20

    They seem to think this is like the big holiday when you were at school.

    They could all have gone shopping for bikes in Halfords and Plod wouldn't have troubled them.
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651

    Hunt on Peston now.

    Very smart, he knows his subject and is talking cogently about Covid-19.

    I thought he had some very good ideas early on e.g. about running a skeleton school just for key workers.
    When he was Secretary of State for Health, I though he was an absolute dick! Iwas wrong, the guy is wasted on the back benches.
    Hunt (at Health and to some extent Foreign Office) reminds me of Gove (at Education and Environment) in many ways. Very smart, very up on his brief and genuinely passionate about it. But despite doing a lot of hard yards to get mastery over the subject matter, didn't manage to gain and hold the trust of the people at the coalface (at least at Health, not sure how popular he was with the diplomats!).
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    The Netherlands says hi. They really are in a mess. Basically tracking UK numbers with a fraction of the population. Belgium looking dodgy also.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    More news on the scrapheap challenge...

    Dyson, along with a separate consortium of manufacturers led by Airbus, is expecting the government to give it the green light to start making up to 30,000 medical ventilators from next week, after finalising plans to supply thousands of devices to help the NHS fight Covid-19.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/25/airbus-dyson-firms-waiting-uk-green-light-produce-ventilators-coronavirus
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    USA 65,652 +10,796 931 +151

    About that opening up the economy in 18 days Mr Trump................
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    edited March 2020

    B & Q:

    The COVID-19 crisis continues to evolve, so I wanted to update you on some changes here at B&Q.
    Over the last 48 hours we have been working hard to create a service that focuses on providing essential products for repair and maintenance of the home. This means we can keep supplies open and give our customers the best possible service to ensure their homes are safe, warm and in working order.
    In order to do this in the safest possible way for our colleagues and customers, we are making some changes:
    • Our website, diy.com, will be our primary store, giving customers access to a range of essential products.
    • The Click+Collect range will be reduced to ensure we do everything we can to limit unnecessary purchases, so that our customers and colleagues are protected from needless contact.
    • Customers can now use our new contactless Click+Collect service from their local store. This will allow you to pick up items from an allocated parking zone and we will bring products to your car.
    • We are working on our home delivery service to enable us to provide a fuller product range.
    • Stores will remain closed to customers for browsing and purchasing.
    We urge you to follow all the Government’s social distancing guidelines and to shop responsibly for essential needs only. The safety of customers and colleagues remains our top priority.

    Thanks for that. I need some things from B & Q but they have a £100 min bulk delivery

    If they cancel bulk buying for delivery and charged £10 as other merchants do they could provide a very good service
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,386

    Hunt on Peston now.

    Very smart, he knows his subject and is talking cogently about Covid-19.

    I thought he had some very good ideas early on e.g. about running a skeleton school just for key workers.
    When he was Secretary of State for Health, I though he was an absolute dick! Iwas wrong, the guy is wasted on the back benches.
    Hunt (at Health and to some extent Foreign Office) reminds me of Gove (at Education and Environment) in many ways. Very smart, very up on his brief and genuinely passionate about it. But despite doing a lot of hard yards to get mastery over the subject matter, didn't manage to gain and hold the trust of the people at the coalface (at least at Health, not sure how popular he was with the diplomats!).
    I think that is unfortunately true. It is refreshing to hear from a politician who speaks lucidly and with authority about Coronavirus.
  • LucyJonesLucyJones Posts: 651

    Some people still not getting the message,

    https://twitter.com/DerbysPolice/status/1242753532362739713?s=20

    They seem to think this is like the big holiday when you were at school.


    We're all going to be confined to our homes all the time if this kind of thing carries on.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    alex_ said:

    The Netherlands says hi. They really are in a mess. Basically tracking UK numbers with a fraction of the population. Belgium looking dodgy also.

    A friend in Holland who was positive about things a week ago was by the weekend despondent - their health system under huge pressure
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    edited March 2020
    alex_ said:

    The Netherlands says hi. They really are in a mess. Basically tracking UK numbers with a fraction of the population. Belgium looking dodgy also.

    They're attempting the herd immunity strategy in the Netherlands, and it sounds like they are in Sweden as well, since they're not shutting bars, restaurants and schools there.
  • Some people still not getting the message,

    https://twitter.com/DerbysPolice/status/1242753532362739713?s=20

    They seem to think this is like the big holiday when you were at school.

    Police have the power to fine from tomorrow
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,386
    Watching Angela Rayner on Peston, I am not sure why she is seen as a future high flyer. Just another gobby Manc.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119

    Some people still not getting the message,

    https://twitter.com/DerbysPolice/status/1242753532362739713?s=20

    They seem to think this is like the big holiday when you were at school.

    Police have the power to fine from tomorrow
    I think £30 is far too low. Should be more like £300.
  • MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 757
    Andy_JS said:

    alex_ said:

    The Netherlands says hi. They really are in a mess. Basically tracking UK numbers with a fraction of the population. Belgium looking dodgy also.

    They're attempting the herd immunity strategy in the Netherlands, and it sounds like they are in Sweden as well, since they're not shutting bars, restaurants and schools there.
    Netherlands will be the biggest disaster in the EU. Aging population, very few beds available, highest population density. Trump will be pointing them out as an example of "socialised medicine" failing catastrophically.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Endillion said:

    Ok, new theory:

    - The first iteration of the novel coronavirus actually appeared at some point in mid 2019. As it was extremely infectious, millions of people round the world caught it.
    - This form was unpleasant, but almost invariably harmless, and generally cleared up in a few days to a few weeks. As a result, no one noticed at the time, nobody bothered developing antibody tests, classifying it, etc.
    - It then evolved into something quite nasty in Hubei, sometime in November 2019. The rapidly mounting death rate quickly brought it to the attention of the Chinese authorities.
    - Since then, there have been a few further major variants, with quite variable levels of aggression and general nastiness/associated mortality.
    - Crucially, having had one variant (including the first one) confers almost (but not complete) immunity for all the others.

    I know this is entirely guesswork. But it seems like it fits all the facts we have. It explains why:
    - the virus seems both incredibly infectious but also not to be spreading all that quickly
    - there are wildly different death rates in different countries
    - case rates seem to tail off after a while regardless of whether anyone does anything about it or not
    - The Imperial vs Oxford modelling on number of cases - they're both right, only the latter are including all variants and the former only the nasty one
    - The incredibly wide range of symptoms experienced by a range of people exposed to the the same disease, none of whom have any immunity to it
    - I and a bunch of people I know had all the symptons months before anyoen in China did

    What have I missed? The bat/pangolin research? Just a total failure to understand how epidemiology works?

    Brilliant, whether correct (or even possible) or not.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    Some people still not getting the message,

    https://twitter.com/DerbysPolice/status/1242753532362739713?s=20

    They seem to think this is like the big holiday when you were at school.

    Why are they all driving on the wrong side of the road?

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Mail:

    "Rapper M.I.A. has revealed she is anti-vaccination and would 'choose death' over getting a coronavirus vaccination amid the ongoing pandemic.

    The Paper Planes hitmaker, 44, declared her stance on vaccinations and expressed her regret at being 'made to' vaccinate her son, 11, before he started school in a series of tweets on Wednesday.

    The musician, real name Mathangi Arulpragasam, wrote: 'If I have to choose the vaccine or chip I'm gonna choose death.'


    Mad.

    I saw MIA headlining at The Big Chill some years ago. Quite possibly the worst act that I have ever seen live.
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651

    Mail:

    "Rapper M.I.A. has revealed she is anti-vaccination and would 'choose death' over getting a coronavirus vaccination amid the ongoing pandemic.

    The Paper Planes hitmaker, 44, declared her stance on vaccinations and expressed her regret at being 'made to' vaccinate her son, 11, before he started school in a series of tweets on Wednesday.

    The musician, real name Mathangi Arulpragasam, wrote: 'If I have to choose the vaccine or chip I'm gonna choose death.'


    Mad.

    Not necessarily mad... The harm done by anti-vaxx is only going to be overcome by understanding the perspective people are coming from and finding a way to persuade more of them to join the rest of us, and I don't think it's as simple as them all being daft or mad. @Nigelb posted an interesting article link on here (would like to see what @Charles makes of it as it's about vaccine economics). But I slightly objected to how the author - a biotech guy and virologist - dealt with anti-vaxxers, who for obvious reasons are a bane of his. (Repost follows, sorry to those who've seen it.)

    And worst of all, the common-cold vaccine would fall victim to the lies of anti-vaxxers. Examples of people being diagnosed with cancer or arthritis or multiple sclerosis in the days or weeks after receiving the common-cold vaccine would be easy to find, just based on random coincidence. Anti-vaxxers would pounce. No matter that data would demonstrate that there’s no link between the vaccine and these conditions, many people will think: “why risk it, I’ll get over a cold.”

    Now industry types are obviously not keen on anti-vaxxers but the characterisation here that they are a bunch of crazy, irrational liars only captures a part of what's a very complex movement. It runs a wide spectrum from the spreading of fake news by people who'd rather flog you their snake oil, to very well-meaning concerned parents who might nevertheless lack the scientific literacy and either access to or ability to judge the evidence.

    I met a public health worker who set up a community mobilisation project for economically disadvantaged mums with the aim of empowering them to take better care of their own health and that of their families and young children. Brilliant idea, right? But it turned into a nightmare - the newly-empowered ladies started looking up medical advice on the internet and things deviated very far from what the public health team had intended to achieve. The project basically evolved into a forum that allowed the women to organise a community campaign against the vaccinations the health services wanted to deliver to them (I was going to say things got "out of control" but the point of community mobilisation projects is that, in principle, it's desirable for the control and ultimate direction of the movement to lie with the participants themselves - which in this case had unintended consequences).

    People taking control over their own health/bodies don't always "do as they're told"; goodness knows what the health implications of that misadventure were. But these anti-vaxxers were not evil mendacious liars, they were passionate caring devoted mothers who just so happened to be deeply mistaken.
  • Some people still not getting the message,

    https://twitter.com/DerbysPolice/status/1242753532362739713?s=20

    They seem to think this is like the big holiday when you were at school.

    Police have the power to fine from tomorrow
    I think £30 is far too low. Should be more like £300.
    I thought it went from £30 to £1,000
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    alex_ said:

    Some people still not getting the message,

    https://twitter.com/DerbysPolice/status/1242753532362739713?s=20

    They seem to think this is like the big holiday when you were at school.

    Why are they all driving on the wrong side of the road?

    Looks like a car park, at least judging by the lines.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    kle4 said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    Meanwhile, over at the we actually won the 2019 GE camp...

    https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1242795428283854848

    Good bye Corbyn. You wrecked the labour party
    I was never a Corbynite - but at both the elections he fought as Leader, he outpolled Ed Milliband and Gordon Brown.
    And lost
    No party won the 2017 election.
    There are degrees of victory. Did Labour lose the 2017 New Zealand GE? By many measures, yes, but they still got their leader in as PM so by gaining sufficient seats to form a majority with others they won it more than anyone else did. The National party got most votes and seats yet still lost the election as a result. Did the Tories win the 2017 UK GE? Not outright, but they won sufficient support and seats to remain in power and Corbyn and Labour did not win enough to gain power.

    That no one won outright does not mean that no one lost, or that one did not clearly lose more than the other. Labour made good ground, but still lost. They lost in votes, they lost in seats, and they lost by not gaining power. They just plain lost.

    The Tories cocked up but still came top and retained power. It was a qualified victory, one which hamstrung them for over 2 years, but it was enough of a victory.

    Pretending everyone lost is based on a rather silly absolute view victory as requiring a majority.

    Or more succinctly

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    Meanwhile, over at the we actually won the 2019 GE camp...

    https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1242795428283854848

    Good bye Corbyn. You wrecked the labour party
    I was never a Corbynite - but at both the elections he fought as Leader, he outpolled Ed Milliband and Gordon Brown.
    And lost
    No party won the 2017 election.
    ...but Labour lost bigger than the Tories.
    And sometimes that's all you need to 'win'.
    I don't dissent to great degree - but the Tory retention of office post-2017 was entirely dependant on the decision of the DUP. Had they followed the New Zealand example, they could have facilitated a minority- Labour Government. Had Milliband or Starmer then been leader , such a course might well have been followed!
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    Endillion said:

    I am absolutely loving "LameStream Media". It's the capital S that tips it over the top.

    If I was a Democrat politician in the US, I think I'd constantly refer to my opponents as the Publican party. On the other side, I think I'd go with Lemoncrat.
    “Rethuglican” is the preferred term of a lot of Dem activists.
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    It's also simplistic to say anti-vaxxers are just fooled by random coincidences. The article doesn't make this point, but vaccines generally have adverse events associated. Usually rare, and if you experience one it will likely be mild, but the worst adverse events can be very gruesome indeed. Frankly, just reading the list of harms we do know vaccines can cause is sufficient to tip some people into the anti-vaxx column. A lot of cost-benefit style calculations get number-crunched before vaccines get signed off. In principle a rational person might disagree with that calculation, feel the risks are not worth it, and take their chances - in fact this is scarily rational if other people are more compliant and so you can still get the benefits of the vaccine via herd immunity without having to face the risk of any adverse events! But if too many people try freeloading like that, then the herd immunity fails. What do you do to stop them - make it compulsory? Ban kids from schools unless they've had their shots or have a medical condition that prevents them doing so? These are vexed questions.

    There's a strong chance that vaccines developed in a rush to beat a pandemic are going to have a greater rate of nasty adverse events than a vaccine that's had many years of careful trials, for obvious reasons. But you really, really want people to take it rather than freeload. Some countries (including the UK) have a sort of no-fault insurance scheme whereby people who suffer vaccine injury can receive compensation (some countries limit this to pandemic vaccines only). Hopefully this encourages people to take the vaccines up by providing some mitigation if e.g. they miss a few days of work due to nasty side-effects. There's an occasional counter-argument: telling a mum that there's a scheme in place to pay her X dollars if the vaccine kills her darling daughter may not encourage her to think the vaccine is perfectly safe (which, after all, it isn't - but if you're tasked with maximising vaccine uptake, you might rather wish parents believed it was), and people may be wary of taking active steps that endanger loved ones in a psychologically asymmetric way to the risks they're prepared to expose their loved ones to via negligent inaction.

    There's also an issue implicit in that article but never really addressed because of its failure to consider the genuine health risks that vaccination can cause. We are correctly informed that the government is relying on young and middle-aged people to get vaccinated in order to keep older people safe, because older people's immune systems generally don't get the full benefit of vaccination. And the risks of COVID-19 lie mostly with the elderly. So we are expecting one group to accept the harms of vaccination for minimal personal benefit, largely in order to confer benefits to another group... that certainly raises "interesting" ethical issues! But also from a messaging point of view, has plenty of potential to backfire.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Hunt on Peston now.

    Very smart, he knows his subject and is talking cogently about Covid-19.

    I thought he had some very good ideas early on e.g. about running a skeleton school just for key workers.
    When he was Secretary of State for Health, I though he was an absolute dick! Iwas wrong, the guy is wasted on the back benches.
    Hunt (at Health and to some extent Foreign Office) reminds me of Gove (at Education and Environment) in many ways. Very smart, very up on his brief and genuinely passionate about it. But despite doing a lot of hard yards to get mastery over the subject matter, didn't manage to gain and hold the trust of the people at the coalface (at least at Health, not sure how popular he was with the diplomats!).
    Apart from his stupidity over the junior doctors rotas, I was never anti Hunt. There have been plenty of worse Health Secs in my career. Hancock is OK too.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited March 2020
    RobD said:

    alex_ said:

    Some people still not getting the message,

    https://twitter.com/DerbysPolice/status/1242753532362739713?s=20

    They seem to think this is like the big holiday when you were at school.

    Why are they all driving on the wrong side of the road?

    Looks like a car park, at least judging by the lines.
    Nah, look at the arrows in the road. Presumably of course it’s a far more mundane explanation of an inverted image.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    LucyJones said:

    Some people still not getting the message,

    https://twitter.com/DerbysPolice/status/1242753532362739713?s=20

    They seem to think this is like the big holiday when you were at school.


    We're all going to be confined to our homes all the time if this kind of thing carries on.
    Government fail, I am afraid. What these people are doing is rational, understandable and crucially not explicitly banned under the rules. It has always been blindingly obvious that driving to a place from which to exercise should have been banned.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,709
    alex_ said:

    Some people still not getting the message,

    https://twitter.com/DerbysPolice/status/1242753532362739713?s=20

    They seem to think this is like the big holiday when you were at school.

    Why are they all driving on the wrong side of the road?

    The two lanes of the road are to their left. They're parked.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    RobD said:

    alex_ said:

    Some people still not getting the message,

    https://twitter.com/DerbysPolice/status/1242753532362739713?s=20

    They seem to think this is like the big holiday when you were at school.

    Why are they all driving on the wrong side of the road?

    Looks like a car park, at least judging by the lines.
    And also the absence of people in the cars.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,709
    edited March 2020
    alex_ said:

    RobD said:

    alex_ said:

    Some people still not getting the message,

    https://twitter.com/DerbysPolice/status/1242753532362739713?s=20

    They seem to think this is like the big holiday when you were at school.

    Why are they all driving on the wrong side of the road?

    Looks like a car park, at least judging by the lines.
    Nah, look at the arrows in the road. Presumably of course it’s a far more mundane explanation of an inverted image.
    Look at the Mazda. The steering wheel is on the right side but there's no driver.

    The arrows are that way because they're for people overtaking.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,880
    justin124 said:

    Floater said:

    justin124 said:

    Floater said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    Meanwhile, over at the we actually won the 2019 GE camp...

    https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1242795428283854848

    Good bye Corbyn. You wrecked the labour party
    I was never a Corbynite - but at both the elections he fought as Leader, he outpolled Ed Milliband and Gordon Brown.
    And lost
    No party won the 2017 election.
    Remind me who formed the Government
    That was courtesy of the DUP.
    So not Labour then ... who therefore lost
    They all lost - ditto in 2010 .
    Cameron became PM in 2010.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,386
    Foxy said:

    Hunt on Peston now.

    Very smart, he knows his subject and is talking cogently about Covid-19.

    I thought he had some very good ideas early on e.g. about running a skeleton school just for key workers.
    When he was Secretary of State for Health, I though he was an absolute dick! Iwas wrong, the guy is wasted on the back benches.
    Hunt (at Health and to some extent Foreign Office) reminds me of Gove (at Education and Environment) in many ways. Very smart, very up on his brief and genuinely passionate about it. But despite doing a lot of hard yards to get mastery over the subject matter, didn't manage to gain and hold the trust of the people at the coalface (at least at Health, not sure how popular he was with the diplomats!).
    Apart from his stupidity over the junior doctors rotas, I was never anti Hunt. There have been plenty of worse Health Secs in my career. Hancock is OK too.
    I am guessing neither Lansley or Keith Joseph were favourites.
This discussion has been closed.