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  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    Condolences, Charles.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    Prince Charles last saw the Queen 16 days ago

    The service also included the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, the Duke and Duchess of Sussex, Boris Johnson and Carrie Symonds, Jeremy Corbyn and Dominic Raab.

    I suspect there won't be a similar gathering of the great and good for a few months yet.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,570
    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    FPT @Luckyguy1983 @Malmesbury

    Charles said:

    Charles said:


    The original Facebook post repeated used the phrase "VIRAL LOAD" (in capitals). It was wrong. The NHS advice is driven by probability of infection - repeated encounters with the virus increase the chance of catching the bug.

    FWIW, I'm not a scientist or a doctor. But I have spent 25 years working with, advising and sitting on the boards of pharmaceutical and biotech companies. I have some familiarity with the basics.

    This is interesting info Charles. How does it work then? My basic understanding of a virus is that it ventures in, attaches itself to its desired cells, and turns those cells into replicators of itself. It would seem to stand to reason that if you are exposed to more virus, it attaches itself to more cells, those more cells all replicate, and the virus is several stages more advanced than it would otherwise be? What you're describing sounds more like a light switch, or a sperm meeting an egg. I am happy to defer to your experience on this subject, but at first glance it seems counterintuitive.
    It's not that it doesn't happen, it's that the rate of replication is so fast that it's irrelevant.
    Yes - imagine the replication as a tree - say you start with 1 cell, then x cells then x * x cells....

    Unless you replace the 1 with a truly staggering number of cells, you won't be starting much further "up" the tree.
    Thank you, that is a helpful explanation. What about the effect different 'geographical areas' of the body? To reduce this to ludicrously simple terms, let's say Sufferer A is mildly exposed to a virus, and it successfully begins to replicate on one of his lungs. Sufferer B is heavily exposed to the virus, and it successfully begins to replicate on both of his lungs. Surely sufferer A is in an advantageous position relative to Sufferer B? He has one tree, where sufferer B has two.
    Viruses typically replicate in the bloodstream. The issue with the lungs is a symptom (it's ARDS, but not sure of the underlying mechanistic cause. Would assume it is part of an inflammatory cascade)
    The viral entry site seems to be the ACE2 receptor, which is found predominately in the lungs, but also gut and heart.

    I don't think red cells express ACE2 receptors so how can the bloodstream be the main source of viral replication?

    In addition red cells do not have nuclei, and are not equipped to produce RNA replication or viral proteins.

    Viruses may well be distributed by bloodstream, but I cannot see them reproducing there.
    I was distracted and thinking about HIV, which replicates in the white blood cells.

    Respiratory viruses obviously replicate elsewhere. Doh!
    :smile:
    If it wasn't such a nasty bug, watching the science done in real time would be quite fascinating.

    Hope your dad is recovering.
    He didn't make it, sadly
    Really sorry to hear that Charles. Thinking of you at this terrible time. x
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    FPT @Luckyguy1983 @Malmesbury

    Charles said:

    Charles said:


    The original Facebook post repeated used the phrase "VIRAL LOAD" (in capitals). It was wrong. The NHS advice is driven by probability of infection - repeated encounters with the virus increase the chance of catching the bug.

    FWIW, I'm not a scientist or a doctor. But I have spent 25 years working with, advising and sitting on the boards of pharmaceutical and biotech companies. I have some familiarity with the basics.

    This is interesting info Charles. How does it work then? My basic understanding of a virus is that it ventures in, attaches itself to its desired cells, and turns those cells into replicators of itself. It would seem to stand to reason that if you are exposed to more virus, it attaches itself to more cells, those more cells all replicate, and the virus is several stages more advanced than it would otherwise be? What you're describing sounds more like a light switch, or a sperm meeting an egg. I am happy to defer to your experience on this subject, but at first glance it seems counterintuitive.
    It's not that it doesn't happen, it's that the rate of replication is so fast that it's irrelevant.
    Yes - imagine the replication as a tree - say you start with 1 cell, then x cells then x * x cells....

    Unless you replace the 1 with a truly staggering number of cells, you won't be starting much further "up" the tree.
    Thank you, that is a helpful explanation. What about the effect different 'geographical areas' of the body? To reduce this to ludicrously simple terms, let's say Sufferer A is mildly exposed to a virus, and it successfully begins to replicate on one of his lungs. Sufferer B is heavily exposed to the virus, and it successfully begins to replicate on both of his lungs. Surely sufferer A is in an advantageous position relative to Sufferer B? He has one tree, where sufferer B has two.
    Viruses typically replicate in the bloodstream. The issue with the lungs is a symptom (it's ARDS, but not sure of the underlying mechanistic cause. Would assume it is part of an inflammatory cascade)
    The viral entry site seems to be the ACE2 receptor, which is found predominately in the lungs, but also gut and heart.

    I don't think red cells express ACE2 receptors so how can the bloodstream be the main source of viral replication?

    In addition red cells do not have nuclei, and are not equipped to produce RNA replication or viral proteins.

    Viruses may well be distributed by bloodstream, but I cannot see them reproducing there.
    I was distracted and thinking about HIV, which replicates in the white blood cells.

    Respiratory viruses obviously replicate elsewhere. Doh!
    :smile:
    If it wasn't such a nasty bug, watching the science done in real time would be quite fascinating.

    Hope your dad is recovering.
    He didn't make it, sadly
    Sad news. You have my sympathies.

  • Really sorry for your loss Charles.
  • ydoethur said:

    Gordon Ramsay has laid off more than 500 of his staff after temporarily closing his London restaurants due to the coronavirus pandemic.

    Chefs, waiters and other staff were called to a meeting and told their contracts were being terminated.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8148839/Chef-slams-Gordon-Ramsay-terminates-employment-500-staff.html

    That's another one for the Hall of Shame.
    The same assh*le who was on Top Gear boasting about his car collection and what he paid for it.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,570

    Very sorry Charles. :-(

    Welcome back sir. Glad you are on the mend.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    edited March 2020
    Floater said:

    nichomar said:

    eadric said:

    nichomar said:
    Spain is still less than two weeks past its lockdown tho, isn’t it? So we shouldn’t expect an improvement yet?
    Total lockdown 17/3
    They really should have cancelled the Woman's day marches
    They are takintg a lot of stick for that. But to be honest the past -even the recent past- is another country given the immediate problems. No country has gotten everything right.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    I see the usual twitter loudmouths are very angry about Prince Charles getting a test....I will let you guess who that includes.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,570

    Ferguson says that, under the policies that were in force earlier, the NHS would still have been overwhelmed - even with the extra critical beds available.

    Now, in the light of the new measures, he says he thinks in some areas intensive care units will get very close to capacity. But over, across the nation as a whole, he says he is reasonably confident that the NHS will have the resources to copy.

    Lets hope he is right.

    If he is, we as a nation will have been very lucky, and will have been given the all mother of wake up calls.
    Nah they won't. What will happen is that the thickies amongst us, who struggle to understand counterfactuals, will claim that it was all overblown nonsense. They will cite spurious death figures for seasonal flu and will forget that we have had the biggest peace time intervention to minimise deaths, as much as practically possible.

    I have seen it done here repeatedly over the last few days whilst I've been trying to recover from this dreadful virus and it is infuriating to read.

    Simpletons like Hitchens plant brain worms into society knowing full well that if they were actually in a position to do anything, they would never have the luxury to take the position they espouse.

    It's morally repugnant.
    I wish you weren't right but I fear you are. :(
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    Is there a public figure who does self-deprecating better than James Blunt?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    ydoethur said:

    Gordon Ramsay has laid off more than 500 of his staff after temporarily closing his London restaurants due to the coronavirus pandemic.

    Chefs, waiters and other staff were called to a meeting and told their contracts were being terminated.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8148839/Chef-slams-Gordon-Ramsay-terminates-employment-500-staff.html

    That's another one for the Hall of Shame.
    Some people / companies are really showing their true colours. The likes of Timpsons, full pay, no ifs, no buts, for as long as this lasts. And we have the other end of the scale.
  • Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    FPT @Luckyguy1983 @Malmesbury

    Charles said:

    Charles said:


    The original Facebook post repeated used the phrase "VIRAL LOAD" (in capitals). It was wrong. The NHS advice is driven by probability of infection - repeated encounters with the virus increase the chance of catching the bug.

    FWIW, I'm not a scientist or a doctor. But I have spent 25 years working with, advising and sitting on the boards of pharmaceutical and biotech companies. I have some familiarity with the basics.

    This is interesting info Charles. How does it work then? My basic understanding of a virus is that it ventures in, attaches itself to its desired cells, and turns those cells into replicators of itself. It would seem to stand to reason that if you are exposed to more virus, it attaches itself to more cells, those more cells all replicate, and the virus is several stages more advanced than it would otherwise be? What you're describing sounds more like a light switch, or a sperm meeting an egg. I am happy to defer to your experience on this subject, but at first glance it seems counterintuitive.
    It's not that it doesn't happen, it's that the rate of replication is so fast that it's irrelevant.
    Yes - imagine the replication as a tree - say you start with 1 cell, then x cells then x * x cells....

    Unless you replace the 1 with a truly staggering number of cells, you won't be starting much further "up" the tree.
    Thank you, that is a helpful explanation. What about the effect different 'geographical areas' of the body? To reduce this to ludicrously simple terms, let's say Sufferer A is mildly exposed to a virus, and it successfully begins to replicate on one of his lungs. Sufferer B is heavily exposed to the virus, and it successfully begins to replicate on both of his lungs. Surely sufferer A is in an advantageous position relative to Sufferer B? He has one tree, where sufferer B has two.
    Viruses typically replicate in the bloodstream. The issue with the lungs is a symptom (it's ARDS, but not sure of the underlying mechanistic cause. Would assume it is part of an inflammatory cascade)
    The viral entry site seems to be the ACE2 receptor, which is found predominately in the lungs, but also gut and heart.

    I don't think red cells express ACE2 receptors so how can the bloodstream be the main source of viral replication?

    In addition red cells do not have nuclei, and are not equipped to produce RNA replication or viral proteins.

    Viruses may well be distributed by bloodstream, but I cannot see them reproducing there.
    I was distracted and thinking about HIV, which replicates in the white blood cells.

    Respiratory viruses obviously replicate elsewhere. Doh!
    :smile:
    If it wasn't such a nasty bug, watching the science done in real time would be quite fascinating.

    Hope your dad is recovering.
    He didn't make it, sadly
    I am so sorry Charles. Sympathies and condolences to your family
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    LOL.

    I saw a "Facebook live" concert on Sunday. The music was good, but the jumpiness of the uploading video made the live aspect of it a joke. I would rather the concert be recorded 90 minutes in advance and then uploaded.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    felix said:

    Floater said:

    nichomar said:

    eadric said:

    nichomar said:
    Spain is still less than two weeks past its lockdown tho, isn’t it? So we shouldn’t expect an improvement yet?
    Total lockdown 17/3
    They really should have cancelled the Woman's day marches
    They are takintg a lot of stick for that. But to be honest the past -even the recent past- is another country given the immediate problems. No country has gotten everything right.
    I think it was only two weeks ago that the Valencian president was insisting the Fallas would go ahead, now he is in the vanguard demanding even tighter restrictions.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    Charles said:

    felix said:

    Looks like not just Excel Centre going to be used, NEC and GMEX next up.

    The planning must have happened a while ago - suggests that there's quite a storm to come - hopefully before the calm.
    Apparently the government was doing nothing though, so that can't be possible
    The other major announcement I’m expecting soon is plenty of hotels to become hospitals.

    Is why they ordered the closure of hotels.
    As has happened here in Spain.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609

    Prince Charles last saw the Queen 16 days ago

    The service also included the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, the Duke and Duchess of Sussex, Boris Johnson and Carrie Symonds, Jeremy Corbyn and Dominic Raab.

    Am I the only one that read that as Jeremy Corbyn and Dominic Raab being an item?
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065

    Is there a public figure who does self-deprecating better than James Blunt?
    He's just being realistic.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    FPT @Luckyguy1983 @Malmesbury

    Charles said:

    Charles said:


    The original Facebook post repeated used the phrase "VIRAL LOAD" (in capitals). It was wrong. The NHS advice is driven by probability of infection - repeated encounters with the virus increase the chance of catching the bug.

    FWIW, I'm not a scientist or a doctor. But I have spent 25 years working with, advising and sitting on the boards of pharmaceutical and biotech companies. I have some familiarity with the basics.

    This is interesting info Charles. How does it work then? My basic understanding of a virus is that it ventures in, attaches itself to its desired cells, and turns those cells into replicators of itself. It would seem to stand to reason that if you are exposed to more virus, it attaches itself to more cells, those more cells all replicate, and the virus is several stages more advanced than it would otherwise be? What you're describing sounds more like a light switch, or a sperm meeting an egg. I am happy to defer to your experience on this subject, but at first glance it seems counterintuitive.
    It's not that it doesn't happen, it's that the rate of replication is so fast that it's irrelevant.
    Yes - imagine the replication as a tree - say you start with 1 cell, then x cells then x * x cells....

    Unless you replace the 1 with a truly staggering number of cells, you won't be starting much further "up" the tree.
    Thank you, that is a helpful explanation. What about the effect different 'geographical areas' of the body? To reduce this to ludicrously simple terms, let's say Sufferer A is mildly exposed to a virus, and it successfully begins to replicate on one of his lungs. Sufferer B is heavily exposed to the virus, and it successfully begins to replicate on both of his lungs. Surely sufferer A is in an advantageous position relative to Sufferer B? He has one tree, where sufferer B has two.
    Viruses typically replicate in the bloodstream. The issue with the lungs is a symptom (it's ARDS, but not sure of the underlying mechanistic cause. Would assume it is part of an inflammatory cascade)
    The viral entry site seems to be the ACE2 receptor, which is found predominately in the lungs, but also gut and heart.

    I don't think red cells express ACE2 receptors so how can the bloodstream be the main source of viral replication?

    In addition red cells do not have nuclei, and are not equipped to produce RNA replication or viral proteins.

    Viruses may well be distributed by bloodstream, but I cannot see them reproducing there.
    I was distracted and thinking about HIV, which replicates in the white blood cells.

    Respiratory viruses obviously replicate elsewhere. Doh!
    :smile:
    If it wasn't such a nasty bug, watching the science done in real time would be quite fascinating.

    Hope your dad is recovering.
    He didn't make it, sadly
    Deepest sympathy.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    edited March 2020
    Mr. Urquhart, during the Black Death many nobles withdrew to their estates. Edward III did not, to try and reassure the populace to at least some degree.

    Edited for clarity.
  • Prince Charles last saw the Queen 16 days ago

    The service also included the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, the Duke and Duchess of Sussex, Boris Johnson and Carrie Symonds, Jeremy Corbyn and Dominic Raab.

    Am I the only one that read that as Jeremy Corbyn and Dominic Raab being an item?
    haha !
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    felix said:

    Floater said:

    nichomar said:

    eadric said:

    nichomar said:
    Spain is still less than two weeks past its lockdown tho, isn’t it? So we shouldn’t expect an improvement yet?
    Total lockdown 17/3
    They really should have cancelled the Woman's day marches
    They are takintg a lot of stick for that. But to be honest the past -even the recent past- is another country given the immediate problems. No country has gotten everything right.
    It really is a very fast moving situation. Yesterday I had a clinic this morning, today it was cancelled.

    Also this AM, Mrs Foxy and I woke with an ominous cough. No temperature at present. Feeling OK , just not sure if it is Coronachondria or not. Having a day at home to see how things develop.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,678
    edited March 2020

    Prince Charles last saw the Queen 16 days ago

    The service also included the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, the Duke and Duchess of Sussex, Boris Johnson and Carrie Symonds, Jeremy Corbyn and Dominic Raab.

    Am I the only one that read that as Jeremy Corbyn and Dominic Raab being an item?
    This is why the Oxford comma is important.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,932
    edited March 2020
    algarkirk said:

    RobD said:

    ydoethur said:

    How come the Prince of Wales met the criteria for having a test? Is being Royal on the list?

    Probably, yes (certainly being a senior royal). Same as being someone who might come into contact with senior govt members. This is not the time to risk infecting the people running the operation.
    Is Prince Charles running the operation?

    The Queen is socially distancing herself, what does her heir have to do with anything?

    Realpolitik means he would qualify but there's surely little operational reason to do with it.
    Orders in Council need to be signed by someone. That's why I was arguing earlier that William should be declared regent, as the most senior royal in a low-risk category.
    Isn't he already a councillor of state?
    Teach young George joined up writing quick.

    Apparently a lot of American schools no longer teach joined-up writing as it is considered redundant in the age of texting and tweets.

    ETA if you want to google it, the term is "cursive" which is American for joined-up writing, and "penmanship" means using a pen.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Was the specific criterion "prince of the realm"? :p
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    I see the usual twitter loudmouths are very angry about Prince Charles getting a test....I will let you guess who that includes.

    I'm amazed Emma Dent Coad hasn't said something yet. I would ask if she's ill but she was active less than two hours ago.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,375

    ydoethur said:

    Gordon Ramsay has laid off more than 500 of his staff after temporarily closing his London restaurants due to the coronavirus pandemic.

    Chefs, waiters and other staff were called to a meeting and told their contracts were being terminated.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8148839/Chef-slams-Gordon-Ramsay-terminates-employment-500-staff.html

    That's another one for the Hall of Shame.
    Some people / companies are really showing their true colours. The likes of Timpsons, full pay, no ifs, no buts, for as long as this lasts. And we have the other end of the scale.
    A lot of people see this as an opportunity/excuse to deal with failing businesses. Celeb chef endorsed (not actually visited) restaurant chains are zombie outfits anyway.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    algarkirk said:

    RobD said:

    ydoethur said:

    How come the Prince of Wales met the criteria for having a test? Is being Royal on the list?

    Probably, yes (certainly being a senior royal). Same as being someone who might come into contact with senior govt members. This is not the time to risk infecting the people running the operation.
    Is Prince Charles running the operation?

    The Queen is socially distancing herself, what does her heir have to do with anything?

    Realpolitik means he would qualify but there's surely little operational reason to do with it.
    Orders in Council need to be signed by someone. That's why I was arguing earlier that William should be declared regent, as the most senior royal in a low-risk category.
    Isn't he already a councillor of state?
    Teach young George joined up writing quick.

    Apparently a lot of American schools no longer teach joined-up writing as it is considered redundant in the age of texting and tweets.
    That would matter less if they taught joined up thinking.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,375

    ydoethur said:

    Gordon Ramsay has laid off more than 500 of his staff after temporarily closing his London restaurants due to the coronavirus pandemic.

    Chefs, waiters and other staff were called to a meeting and told their contracts were being terminated.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8148839/Chef-slams-Gordon-Ramsay-terminates-employment-500-staff.html

    That's another one for the Hall of Shame.
    The same assh*le who was on Top Gear boasting about his car collection and what he paid for it.

    I remember when he whined about getting 30K a year in parking fines when he was cooking for a hotel in central London. The host on the show handed him a map of the carparks nearby and asked why he didn't pay a doorman to drive his car to one of them - if he couldn't do it himself.....

    The impression of a fish out of water gasping for air was quite distinct.
  • felix said:

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    FPT @Luckyguy1983 @Malmesbury

    Charles said:

    Charles said:


    The original Facebook post repeated used the phrase "VIRAL LOAD" (in capitals). It was wrong. The NHS advice is driven by probability of infection - repeated encounters with the virus increase the chance of catching the bug.

    FWIW, I'm not a scientist or a doctor. But I have spent 25 years working with, advising and sitting on the boards of pharmaceutical and biotech companies. I have some familiarity with the basics.

    This is interesting info Charles. How does it work then? My basic understanding of a virus is that it ventures in, attaches itself to its desired cells, and turns those cells into replicators of itself. It would seem to stand to reason that if you are exposed to more virus, it attaches itself to more cells, those more cells all replicate, and the virus is several stages more advanced than it would otherwise be? What you're describing sounds more like a light switch, or a sperm meeting an egg. I am happy to defer to your experience on this subject, but at first glance it seems counterintuitive.
    It's not that it doesn't happen, it's that the rate of replication is so fast that it's irrelevant.
    Yes - imagine the replication as a tree - say you start with 1 cell, then x cells then x * x cells....

    Unless you replace the 1 with a truly staggering number of cells, you won't be starting much further "up" the tree.
    Thank you, that is a helpful explanation. What about the effect different 'geographical areas' of the body? To reduce this to ludicrously simple terms, let's say Sufferer A is mildly exposed to a virus, and it successfully begins to replicate on one of his lungs. Sufferer B is heavily exposed to the virus, and it successfully begins to replicate on both of his lungs. Surely sufferer A is in an advantageous position relative to Sufferer B? He has one tree, where sufferer B has two.
    Viruses typically replicate in the bloodstream. The issue with the lungs is a symptom (it's ARDS, but not sure of the underlying mechanistic cause. Would assume it is part of an inflammatory cascade)
    The viral entry site seems to be the ACE2 receptor, which is found predominately in the lungs, but also gut and heart.

    I don't think red cells express ACE2 receptors so how can the bloodstream be the main source of viral replication?

    In addition red cells do not have nuclei, and are not equipped to produce RNA replication or viral proteins.

    Viruses may well be distributed by bloodstream, but I cannot see them reproducing there.
    I was distracted and thinking about HIV, which replicates in the white blood cells.

    Respiratory viruses obviously replicate elsewhere. Doh!
    :smile:
    If it wasn't such a nasty bug, watching the science done in real time would be quite fascinating.

    Hope your dad is recovering.
    He didn't make it, sadly
    Deepest sympathy.
    Incredibly sorry to hear Charles. Deepest condolences.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Prince Charles last saw the Queen 16 days ago

    The service also included the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, the Duke and Duchess of Sussex, Boris Johnson and Carrie Symonds, Jeremy Corbyn and Dominic Raab.


    Mrs DA told me that Chazza gave it to Idris Elba. He has been spreading more than Camilla's wattled thighs by the look of things.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,375

    Is there a public figure who does self-deprecating better than James Blunt?

    Not to my knowledge, no.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    FPT @Luckyguy1983 @Malmesbury

    Charles said:

    Charles said:


    The original Facebook post repeated used the phrase "VIRAL LOAD" (in capitals). It was wrong. The NHS advice is driven by probability of infection - repeated encounters with the virus increase the chance of catching the bug.

    FWIW, I'm not a scientist or a doctor. But I have spent 25 years working with, advising and sitting on the boards of pharmaceutical and biotech companies. I have some familiarity with the basics.

    This is interesting info Charles. How does it work then? My basic understanding of a virus is that it ventures in, attaches itself to its desired cells, and turns those cells into replicators of itself. It would seem to stand to reason that if you are exposed to more virus, it attaches itself to more cells, those more cells all replicate, and the virus is several stages more advanced than it would otherwise be? What you're describing sounds more like a light switch, or a sperm meeting an egg. I am happy to defer to your experience on this subject, but at first glance it seems counterintuitive.
    It's not that it doesn't happen, it's that the rate of replication is so fast that it's irrelevant.
    Yes - imagine the replication as a tree - say you start with 1 cell, then x cells then x * x cells....

    Unless you replace the 1 with a truly staggering number of cells, you won't be starting much further "up" the tree.
    Thank you, that is a helpful explanation. What about the effect different 'geographical areas' of the body? To reduce this to ludicrously simple terms, let's say Sufferer A is mildly exposed to a virus, and it successfully begins to replicate on one of his lungs. Sufferer B is heavily exposed to the virus, and it successfully begins to replicate on both of his lungs. Surely sufferer A is in an advantageous position relative to Sufferer B? He has one tree, where sufferer B has two.
    Viruses typically replicate in the bloodstream. The issue with the lungs is a symptom (it's ARDS, but not sure of the underlying mechanistic cause. Would assume it is part of an inflammatory cascade)
    The viral entry site seems to be the ACE2 receptor, which is found predominately in the lungs, but also gut and heart.

    I don't think red cells express ACE2 receptors so how can the bloodstream be the main source of viral replication?

    In addition red cells do not have nuclei, and are not equipped to produce RNA replication or viral proteins.

    Viruses may well be distributed by bloodstream, but I cannot see them reproducing there.
    I was distracted and thinking about HIV, which replicates in the white blood cells.

    Respiratory viruses obviously replicate elsewhere. Doh!
    :smile:
    If it wasn't such a nasty bug, watching the science done in real time would be quite fascinating.

    Hope your dad is recovering.
    He didn't make it, sadly


    Condolences to you and your family.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Floater said:

    nichomar said:

    eadric said:

    nichomar said:
    Spain is still less than two weeks past its lockdown tho, isn’t it? So we shouldn’t expect an improvement yet?
    Total lockdown 17/3
    They really should have cancelled the Woman's day marches
    They are takintg a lot of stick for that. But to be honest the past -even the recent past- is another country given the immediate problems. No country has gotten everything right.
    It really is a very fast moving situation. Yesterday I had a clinic this morning, today it was cancelled.

    Also this AM, Mrs Foxy and I woke with an ominous cough. No temperature at present. Feeling OK , just not sure if it is Coronachondria or not. Having a day at home to see how things develop.
    Oh dear - best wishes.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    Following on from the James Blunt tweet, in these darks times, if you want a smile and a chuckle scroll through his timeline and the replies. Not all tw@tter is the pits, not only does he do self deprecating humour well, a lot of the replies are in good spirits too.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    @Charles

    So very sorry to hear about your father. With best wishes to you and your family.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,767

    felix said:

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    FPT @Luckyguy1983 @Malmesbury

    Charles said:

    Charles said:


    The original Facebook post repeated used the phrase "VIRAL LOAD" (in capitals). It was wrong. The NHS advice is driven by probability of infection - repeated encounters with the virus increase the chance of catching the bug.

    FWIW, I'm not a scientist or a doctor. But I have spent 25 years working with, advising and sitting on the boards of pharmaceutical and biotech companies. I have some familiarity with the basics.

    This is interesting info Charles. How does it work then? My basic understanding of a virus is that it ventures in, attaches itself to its desired cells, and turns those cells into replicators of itself. It would seem to stand to reason that if you are exposed to more virus, it attaches itself to more cells, those more cells all replicate, and the virus is several stages more advanced than it would otherwise be? What you're describing sounds more like a light switch, or a sperm meeting an egg. I am happy to defer to your experience on this subject, but at first glance it seems counterintuitive.
    It's not that it doesn't happen, it's that the rate of replication is so fast that it's irrelevant.
    Yes - imagine the replication as a tree - say you start with 1 cell, then x cells then x * x cells....

    Unless you replace the 1 with a truly staggering number of cells, you won't be starting much further "up" the tree.
    Thank you, that is a helpful explanation. What about the effect different 'geographical areas' of the body? To reduce this to ludicrously simple terms, let's say Sufferer A is mildly exposed to a virus, and it successfully begins to replicate on one of his lungs. Sufferer B is heavily exposed to the virus, and it successfully begins to replicate on both of his lungs. Surely sufferer A is in an advantageous position relative to Sufferer B? He has one tree, where sufferer B has two.
    Viruses typically replicate in the bloodstream. The issue with the lungs is a symptom (it's ARDS, but not sure of the underlying mechanistic cause. Would assume it is part of an inflammatory cascade)
    The viral entry site seems to be the ACE2 receptor, which is found predominately in the lungs, but also gut and heart.

    I don't think red cells express ACE2 receptors so how can the bloodstream be the main source of viral replication?

    In addition red cells do not have nuclei, and are not equipped to produce RNA replication or viral proteins.

    Viruses may well be distributed by bloodstream, but I cannot see them reproducing there.
    I was distracted and thinking about HIV, which replicates in the white blood cells.

    Respiratory viruses obviously replicate elsewhere. Doh!
    :smile:
    If it wasn't such a nasty bug, watching the science done in real time would be quite fascinating.

    Hope your dad is recovering.
    He didn't make it, sadly
    Deepest sympathy.
    Incredibly sorry to hear Charles. Deepest condolences.
    Indeed. My condolences to Charles.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,375
    isam said:

    RobD said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    This is so unhelpful to the cause. What on earth are they thinking?
    They actually believe this.
    Corona isn’t the cure, it has just made us aware of the cure
    In Tom Clancy book, the eco-terrorists aren't killed when caught. Stripped to the skin and left in the middle of the Amazon rainforest to commune with nature.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    My condolences, Charles.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    FPT @Luckyguy1983 @Malmesbury

    Charles said:

    Charles said:


    The original Facebook post repeated used the phrase "VIRAL LOAD" (in capitals). It was wrong. The NHS advice is driven by probability of infection - repeated encounters with the virus increase the chance of catching the bug.

    FWIW, I'm not a scientist or a doctor. But I have spent 25 years working with, advising and sitting on the boards of pharmaceutical and biotech companies. I have some familiarity with the basics.

    This is interesting info Charles. How does it work then? My basic understanding of a virus is that it ventures in, attaches itself to its desired cells, and turns those cells into replicators of itself. It would seem to stand to reason that if you are exposed to more virus, it attaches itself to more cells, those more cells all replicate, and the virus is several stages more advanced than it would otherwise be? What you're describing sounds more like a light switch, or a sperm meeting an egg. I am happy to defer to your experience on this subject, but at first glance it seems counterintuitive.
    It's not that it doesn't happen, it's that the rate of replication is so fast that it's irrelevant.
    Yes - imagine the replication as a tree - say you start with 1 cell, then x cells then x * x cells....

    Unless you replace the 1 with a truly staggering number cells, you won't be starting much further "up" the tree.
    Thank you, that is a helpful explanation. What about the effect different 'geographical areas' of the body? To reduce this to ludicrously simple terms, let's say Sufferer A is mildly exposed to a virus, and it successfully begins to replicate on one of his lungs. Sufferer B is heavily exposed to the virus, and it successfully begins to replicate on both of his lungs. Surely sufferer A is in an advantageous position relative to Sufferer B? He has one tree, where sufferer B has two.
    Viruses typically replicate in the bloodstream. The issue with the lungs is a symptom (it's ARDS, but not sure of the underlying mechanistic cause. Would assume it is part of an inflammatory cascade)
    The viral entry site seems to be the ACE2 receptor, which is found predominately in the lungs, but also gut and heart.

    I don't think red cells express ACE2 receptors so how can the bloodstream be the main source of viral replication?

    In addition red cells do not have nuclei, and are not equipped to produce RNA replication or viral proteins.

    Viruses may well be distributed by bloodstream, but I cannot see them reproducing there.
    I was distracted and thinking about HIV, which replicates in the white blood cells.

    Respiratory viruses obviously replicate elsewhere. Doh!
    :smile:
    If it wasn't such a nasty bug, watching the science done in real time would be quite fascinating.

    Hope your dad is recovering.
    He didn't make it, sadly
    I'm very sorry to hear that, Charles.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Floater said:

    nichomar said:

    eadric said:

    nichomar said:
    Spain is still less than two weeks past its lockdown tho, isn’t it? So we shouldn’t expect an improvement yet?
    Total lockdown 17/3
    They really should have cancelled the Woman's day marches
    They are takintg a lot of stick for that. But to be honest the past -even the recent past- is another country given the immediate problems. No country has gotten everything right.
    It really is a very fast moving situation. Yesterday I had a clinic this morning, today it was cancelled.

    Also this AM, Mrs Foxy and I woke with an ominous cough. No temperature at present. Feeling OK , just not sure if it is Coronachondria or not. Having a day at home to see how things develop.
    Stay safe Foxy (and Mrs Foxy) - there are other lurgies out there still - best wishes to you both
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,932
    edited March 2020

    ydoethur said:

    Gordon Ramsay has laid off more than 500 of his staff after temporarily closing his London restaurants due to the coronavirus pandemic.

    Chefs, waiters and other staff were called to a meeting and told their contracts were being terminated.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8148839/Chef-slams-Gordon-Ramsay-terminates-employment-500-staff.html

    That's another one for the Hall of Shame.
    The same assh*le who was on Top Gear boasting about his car collection and what he paid for it.

    I remember when he whined about getting 30K a year in parking fines when he was cooking for a hotel in central London. The host on the show handed him a map of the carparks nearby and asked why he didn't pay a doorman to drive his car to one of them - if he couldn't do it himself.....

    The impression of a fish out of water gasping for air was quite distinct.
    I did wonder on here if this might happen, though I expected it to be a problem of small employers not understanding how to jump through the bureacratic hoops to claim government money.

    That said, has the Ramsay report been fact-checked? It is suprising any top restaurateur would be so cavalier about letting highly-skilled stafff go. It would be like Liverpool sacking their squad and assuming they could be hired back later and not have been poached by Man City or Chelsea.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,375
    eadric said:

    nichomar said:

    felix said:

    eadric said:

    nichomar said:
    Spain is still less than two weeks past its lockdown tho, isn’t it? So we shouldn’t expect an improvement yet?
    Unfortunately there is now pressure from both the opposition and the Coalition partners for more drastic measures - Sanchez must decide this w/e. Personally, I think he has done well and should be backed rather than pressured too much at this point.
    Worth noting that large parts of Spain are, statistically, safer than central London although obviously not in the larger cities.
    Central London is deserted. A friend of mine walked through it yesterday and said places like Soho and Chinatown are eerily, even menacingly quiet. The only inhabitants are mad homeless people smashing windows

    He made a quick exit.
    "Mad homeless people smashing windows" - who let the ex-Shadow Cabinet out?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Charles

    Really sorry to hear your news

    Best wishes to you and your family
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Coronavirus maths quiz anybody?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,375

    ydoethur said:

    Gordon Ramsay has laid off more than 500 of his staff after temporarily closing his London restaurants due to the coronavirus pandemic.

    Chefs, waiters and other staff were called to a meeting and told their contracts were being terminated.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8148839/Chef-slams-Gordon-Ramsay-terminates-employment-500-staff.html

    That's another one for the Hall of Shame.
    The same assh*le who was on Top Gear boasting about his car collection and what he paid for it.

    I remember when he whined about getting 30K a year in parking fines when he was cooking for a hotel in central London. The host on the show handed him a map of the carparks nearby and asked why he didn't pay a doorman to drive his car to one of them - if he couldn't do it himself.....

    The impression of a fish out of water gasping for air was quite distinct.
    I did wonder on here if this might happen, though I expected it to be a problem of small employers not understanding how to jump through the bureacratic hoops to claim government money.

    That said, has the Ramsay report been fact-checked? It is suprising any top restaurateur would be so cavalier about letting highly-skilled stafff go. It would be like Liverpool sacking their squad and assuming they could be hired back later and not have been poached by Man City or Chelsea.
    I will be surprised if they ever re-open
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464
    Just seem this on the BBC News site
    'The UK acted unlawfully by passing evidence to the US that could lead to the execution of two British members of an Islamic State murder squad.
    The Supreme Court said former Home Secretary Sajid Javid should not have passed information on Shafee Elsheikh and Alexander Kotey to the US."
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    isam said:

    RobD said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    This is so unhelpful to the cause. What on earth are they thinking?
    They actually believe this.
    Corona isn’t the cure, it has just made us aware of the cure
    In Tom Clancy book, the eco-terrorists aren't killed when caught. Stripped to the skin and left in the middle of the Amazon rainforest to commune with nature.
    Where they die slowly - oh well, never mind
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    Condolences to Charles
  • A very interesting thread from OGH this morning and one, should it prove to have any traction, which could well spell the end of Joe Biden's Presidential campaign. I must say that his entire demeanour in the video clip came across as being rather strange.
    Like Mike, I've since sold him quite aggressively on Betfair at 1.15, as well as backing 3 or 4 of the other recent front runners at what are now huge odds. Not least Mike's earlier pick Amy Klobuchar with Betfair at odds of 130 (122.5/1 net).
  • ydoethur said:

    Gordon Ramsay has laid off more than 500 of his staff after temporarily closing his London restaurants due to the coronavirus pandemic.

    Chefs, waiters and other staff were called to a meeting and told their contracts were being terminated.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8148839/Chef-slams-Gordon-Ramsay-terminates-employment-500-staff.html

    That's another one for the Hall of Shame.
    The same assh*le who was on Top Gear boasting about his car collection and what he paid for it.

    I remember when he whined about getting 30K a year in parking fines when he was cooking for a hotel in central London. The host on the show handed him a map of the carparks nearby and asked why he didn't pay a doorman to drive his car to one of them - if he couldn't do it himself.....

    The impression of a fish out of water gasping for air was quite distinct.
    I did wonder on here if this might happen, though I expected it to be a problem of small employers not understanding how to jump through the bureacratic hoops to claim government money.

    That said, has the Ramsay report been fact-checked? It is suprising any top restaurateur would be so cavalier about letting highly-skilled stafff go. It would be like Liverpool sacking their squad and assuming they could be hired back later and not have been poached by Man City or Chelsea.
    That'd be true if he actually thought he'd be opening again. There are going to be lots of retail and hospitality businesses that don't see the light of day again once this is all done and dusted.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    @Charles, my deepest sympathies.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    Floater said:

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Floater said:

    nichomar said:

    eadric said:

    nichomar said:
    Spain is still less than two weeks past its lockdown tho, isn’t it? So we shouldn’t expect an improvement yet?
    Total lockdown 17/3
    They really should have cancelled the Woman's day marches
    They are takintg a lot of stick for that. But to be honest the past -even the recent past- is another country given the immediate problems. No country has gotten everything right.
    It really is a very fast moving situation. Yesterday I had a clinic this morning, today it was cancelled.

    Also this AM, Mrs Foxy and I woke with an ominous cough. No temperature at present. Feeling OK , just not sure if it is Coronachondria or not. Having a day at home to see how things develop.
    Stay safe Foxy (and Mrs Foxy) - there are other lurgies out there still - best wishes to you both
    I am really not sure if it is anything or not, so doing my admin by phone and online as far as possible.

    Testing would be great. Otherwise really in the dark.
  • Foxy said:

    Floater said:

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Floater said:

    nichomar said:

    eadric said:

    nichomar said:
    Spain is still less than two weeks past its lockdown tho, isn’t it? So we shouldn’t expect an improvement yet?
    Total lockdown 17/3
    They really should have cancelled the Woman's day marches
    They are takintg a lot of stick for that. But to be honest the past -even the recent past- is another country given the immediate problems. No country has gotten everything right.
    It really is a very fast moving situation. Yesterday I had a clinic this morning, today it was cancelled.

    Also this AM, Mrs Foxy and I woke with an ominous cough. No temperature at present. Feeling OK , just not sure if it is Coronachondria or not. Having a day at home to see how things develop.
    Stay safe Foxy (and Mrs Foxy) - there are other lurgies out there still - best wishes to you both
    I am really not sure if it is anything or not, so doing my admin by phone and online as far as possible.

    Testing would be great. Otherwise really in the dark.
    Surely you can trace some ancestry back to the Royal family?
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123
    RobD said:

    Was the specific criterion "prince of the realm"? :p
    I don't begrudge them getting tested. It's important they do. But rather silly to pretend it is normal procedure.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,375
    Floater said:

    isam said:

    RobD said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    This is so unhelpful to the cause. What on earth are they thinking?
    They actually believe this.
    Corona isn’t the cure, it has just made us aware of the cure
    In Tom Clancy book, the eco-terrorists aren't killed when caught. Stripped to the skin and left in the middle of the Amazon rainforest to commune with nature.
    Where they die slowly - oh well, never mind
    A friend who does re-enactment (English Civil War) - says that you can tell a lot about people from who they imagine they would be in the past.

    Some people imagine that they would be in charge, living the high life. They are always arrogant chods.

    He does brewing - effectively runs a mobile pub serving authentic ale for the thirsty. Given that he is a brewer in real life....

    A surprising number of alleged "intellectuals" think that when the revolution comes they will be the head commissar, rather than against the wall.
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123
    edited March 2020
    Foxy said:

    Floater said:

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Floater said:

    nichomar said:

    eadric said:

    nichomar said:
    Spain is still less than two weeks past its lockdown tho, isn’t it? So we shouldn’t expect an improvement yet?
    Total lockdown 17/3
    They really should have cancelled the Woman's day marches
    They are takintg a lot of stick for that. But to be honest the past -even the recent past- is another country given the immediate problems. No country has gotten everything right.
    It really is a very fast moving situation. Yesterday I had a clinic this morning, today it was cancelled.

    Also this AM, Mrs Foxy and I woke with an ominous cough. No temperature at present. Feeling OK , just not sure if it is Coronachondria or not. Having a day at home to see how things develop.
    Stay safe Foxy (and Mrs Foxy) - there are other lurgies out there still - best wishes to you both
    I am really not sure if it is anything or not, so doing my admin by phone and online as far as possible.

    Testing would be great. Otherwise really in the dark.
    Fingers crossed for you Foxy. You're a legend in my household now.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    algarkirk said:

    RobD said:

    ydoethur said:

    How come the Prince of Wales met the criteria for having a test? Is being Royal on the list?

    Probably, yes (certainly being a senior royal). Same as being someone who might come into contact with senior govt members. This is not the time to risk infecting the people running the operation.
    Is Prince Charles running the operation?

    The Queen is socially distancing herself, what does her heir have to do with anything?

    Realpolitik means he would qualify but there's surely little operational reason to do with it.
    Orders in Council need to be signed by someone. That's why I was arguing earlier that William should be declared regent, as the most senior royal in a low-risk category.
    Isn't he already a councillor of state?
    Teach young George joined up writing quick.

    Apparently a lot of American schools no longer teach joined-up writing as it is considered redundant in the age of texting and tweets.

    ETA if you want to google it, the term is "cursive" which is American for joined-up writing, and "penmanship" means using a pen.
    That is certainly true at ASL. we are teaching our daughter cursive at home
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    @Charles I am very sorry to read about the loss of your father. Thoughts are with you and your family at what must have been a very trying time.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    Some more fascinating stuff from Neil Ferguson,

    10% of the population in London to get coronavirus.

    rate of growth of epidemic in Europe faster than we expected so they are revising reproduction number of virus up from 2.5 to 3.

    half of those who may die from covid-19 may have died anyway as it is affecting many people at end of life or with existing conditions.


    Just me or does that 10% figure seem very low?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Foxy said:

    Floater said:

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Floater said:

    nichomar said:

    eadric said:

    nichomar said:
    Spain is still less than two weeks past its lockdown tho, isn’t it? So we shouldn’t expect an improvement yet?
    Total lockdown 17/3
    They really should have cancelled the Woman's day marches
    They are takintg a lot of stick for that. But to be honest the past -even the recent past- is another country given the immediate problems. No country has gotten everything right.
    It really is a very fast moving situation. Yesterday I had a clinic this morning, today it was cancelled.

    Also this AM, Mrs Foxy and I woke with an ominous cough. No temperature at present. Feeling OK , just not sure if it is Coronachondria or not. Having a day at home to see how things develop.
    Stay safe Foxy (and Mrs Foxy) - there are other lurgies out there still - best wishes to you both
    I am really not sure if it is anything or not, so doing my admin by phone and online as far as possible.

    Testing would be great. Otherwise really in the dark.
    In North Essex my son's girlfriend who is a nurse has had 2 scares to date - both times they tested her.

    Both times she was negative - The second one she had aches and pains, no energy and a temperature - so it really did look like it could have been
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,227
    HYUFD said:

    Condolences to Charles

    Yes. From me too.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,767

    Some more fascinating stuff from Neil Ferguson,

    10% of the population in London to get coronavirus.

    rate of growth of epidemic in Europe faster than we expected so they are revising reproduction number of virus up from 2.5 to 3.

    half of those who may die from covid-19 may have died anyway as it is affecting many people at end of life or with existing conditions.


    Just me or does that 10% figure seem very low?

    Sounds very low to me.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Fire up the bloody Quattro...also doesn't mention the G-Tech scrapheap challenge solution.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/25/airbus-dyson-firms-waiting-uk-green-light-produce-ventilators-coronavirus
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Foxy said:

    Floater said:

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Floater said:

    nichomar said:

    eadric said:

    nichomar said:
    Spain is still less than two weeks past its lockdown tho, isn’t it? So we shouldn’t expect an improvement yet?
    Total lockdown 17/3
    They really should have cancelled the Woman's day marches
    They are takintg a lot of stick for that. But to be honest the past -even the recent past- is another country given the immediate problems. No country has gotten everything right.
    It really is a very fast moving situation. Yesterday I had a clinic this morning, today it was cancelled.

    Also this AM, Mrs Foxy and I woke with an ominous cough. No temperature at present. Feeling OK , just not sure if it is Coronachondria or not. Having a day at home to see how things develop.
    Stay safe Foxy (and Mrs Foxy) - there are other lurgies out there still - best wishes to you both
    I am really not sure if it is anything or not, so doing my admin by phone and online as far as possible.

    Testing would be great. Otherwise really in the dark.
    Fingers crossed for you Foxy. You're a legend in my household now.
    And in mine - in all honesty I have a new found respect for our front line medical workers

    I have seen examples in the UK and overseas where they have basically removed themselves from their families for the duration to try and keep loved ones safe but want to fight the fight for their fellow men and women.

  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Data from Bergamo province on their deaths

    Number of dead people who tested positive: 1,267

    Men: 928
    Women: 339

    Age

    30-39: 1 (0.08%)
    40-49: 13 (1.3%)
    50-59: 43 (3.4%)
    60-69: 165 (13%)
    70-79: 498 (39.3%)
    80-89: 479 (37.81%)
    90-99: 67 (5.29%)
    100+: 1 (0.08%)

    12% of the deceased had no previous illness, 13% already had respiratory problems, 31% diabetes, 26% oncological diseases, 81% cardiovascular problems.

    The total number of those who tested positive is 6727. So 18.8% mortality rate.

    Such mortality rate would suggest the number of infected is much higher with all those without or with mild symptoms not being tested because they can't cope with it anymore locally.
  • Yeah, I can't see the point of it today. Surely their time would be better spent coming up with plans than trying to score political points off each other.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Jezza gets 12 questions and SNP guy gets four. That seems beyond excessive.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Floater said:

    nichomar said:

    eadric said:

    nichomar said:
    Spain is still less than two weeks past its lockdown tho, isn’t it? So we shouldn’t expect an improvement yet?
    Total lockdown 17/3
    They really should have cancelled the Woman's day marches
    They are takintg a lot of stick for that. But to be honest the past -even the recent past- is another country given the immediate problems. No country has gotten everything right.
    It really is a very fast moving situation. Yesterday I had a clinic this morning, today it was cancelled.

    Also this AM, Mrs Foxy and I woke with an ominous cough. No temperature at present. Feeling OK , just not sure if it is Coronachondria or not. Having a day at home to see how things develop.
    Fingers crossed and Daumen drücken (translates as press the thumbs).

    I love the term Coronachondria. There's a lot of it about at the mo.
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123
    Floater said:

    Foxy said:

    Floater said:

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Floater said:

    nichomar said:

    eadric said:

    nichomar said:
    Spain is still less than two weeks past its lockdown tho, isn’t it? So we shouldn’t expect an improvement yet?
    Total lockdown 17/3
    They really should have cancelled the Woman's day marches
    They are takintg a lot of stick for that. But to be honest the past -even the recent past- is another country given the immediate problems. No country has gotten everything right.
    It really is a very fast moving situation. Yesterday I had a clinic this morning, today it was cancelled.

    Also this AM, Mrs Foxy and I woke with an ominous cough. No temperature at present. Feeling OK , just not sure if it is Coronachondria or not. Having a day at home to see how things develop.
    Stay safe Foxy (and Mrs Foxy) - there are other lurgies out there still - best wishes to you both
    I am really not sure if it is anything or not, so doing my admin by phone and online as far as possible.

    Testing would be great. Otherwise really in the dark.
    In North Essex my son's girlfriend who is a nurse has had 2 scares to date - both times they tested her.

    Both times she was negative - The second one she had aches and pains, no energy and a temperature - so it really did look like it could have been
    I have read or heard somewhere that even the PCR assay is only 75% sensitive.

    That means of all the negative results, 25% of them are false negatives. Those patients are actually positive.

    Nothing can really be done in that situation as that is the best we have but perhaps that is why doctors are not actually getting tested but being told to self isolate.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Condolences to Charles

    Yes. From me too.
    And from me.
    I am very sorry, Charles.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Data from Bergamo province on their deaths

    Number of dead people who tested positive: 1,267

    Men: 928
    Women: 339

    Age

    30-39: 1 (0.08%)
    40-49: 13 (1.3%)
    50-59: 43 (3.4%)
    60-69: 165 (13%)
    70-79: 498 (39.3%)
    80-89: 479 (37.81%)
    90-99: 67 (5.29%)
    100+: 1 (0.08%)

    12% of the deceased had no previous illness, 13% already had respiratory problems, 31% diabetes, 26% oncological diseases, 81% cardiovascular problems.

    The total number of those who tested positive is 6727. So 18.8% mortality rate.

    Such mortality rate would suggest the number of infected is much higher with all those without or with mild symptoms not being tested because they can't cope with it anymore locally.

    Thank you for sharing that
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    So patient zero passes it on to 3 people on day 1 etc etc

    Day 10

    3 to the power of 10=59,049

    Day 12 = 531,444

    Day 14 = 4,782,969

    Stay isolated
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020

    Data from Bergamo province on their deaths

    Number of dead people who tested positive: 1,267

    Men: 928
    Women: 339

    The male to female ratio is quite staggering. I seemed to remember that Sky survey of 196 patients in ICU at the moment was a similar, I think 70% male.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914
    Charles said:

    algarkirk said:

    RobD said:

    ydoethur said:

    How come the Prince of Wales met the criteria for having a test? Is being Royal on the list?

    Probably, yes (certainly being a senior royal). Same as being someone who might come into contact with senior govt members. This is not the time to risk infecting the people running the operation.
    Is Prince Charles running the operation?

    The Queen is socially distancing herself, what does her heir have to do with anything?

    Realpolitik means he would qualify but there's surely little operational reason to do with it.
    Orders in Council need to be signed by someone. That's why I was arguing earlier that William should be declared regent, as the most senior royal in a low-risk category.
    Isn't he already a councillor of state?
    Teach young George joined up writing quick.

    Apparently a lot of American schools no longer teach joined-up writing as it is considered redundant in the age of texting and tweets.

    ETA if you want to google it, the term is "cursive" which is American for joined-up writing, and "penmanship" means using a pen.
    That is certainly true at ASL. we are teaching our daughter cursive at home
    In my Northern Irish primary school we were taught using an Osmiroid Italic pen, which made it a bit more difficult.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    PMQs to run 1 hour Opposition get 2 sets of questions (Corbyn 2 x 6, Blackford 2 x 2) in two lots.

    https://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/02663d52-c73b-4a33-9088-50fcd45edfca
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    So patient zero passes it on to 3 people on day 1 etc etc

    Day 10

    3 to the power of 10=59,049

    Day 12 = 531,444

    Day 14 = 4,782,969

    Stay isolated

    So we all have it by now, since patient zero was ages ago? :p
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    What a **** Jeremy Corbyn is.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Jezza looks like he has swallowed a wasp and it is fighting back.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    tlg86 said:

    What a **** Jeremy Corbyn is.

    What's he done?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Jezza - graceless bastard
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    tlg86 said:

    What a **** Jeremy Corbyn is.

    What's he done?
    Being a %%%%
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    Some light relief from the Guardian, living up to their long established reputation...
    There was a mistake in the original headline at 10.38am, where what should have been a “now” turned into a “not”. Sorry. It’s been fixed. Prof Neil Ferguson is saying he thinks the NHS will now be able to cope with coronavirus...
  • tlg86 said:

    What a **** Jeremy Corbyn is.

    Ungracious to a generous tribute to him from Boris

    The country will not miss him
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Floater said:

    tlg86 said:

    What a **** Jeremy Corbyn is.

    What's he done?
    Being a %%%%
    Well that's nothing new, but what specifically?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    @Charles Really sorry to hear about your Dad

    What's the specificty of the Coronavirus test ?

    If it's 75% sensitive then 3 or 4 tests are needed per person really.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,767

    So patient zero passes it on to 3 people on day 1 etc etc

    Day 10

    3 to the power of 10=59,049

    Day 12 = 531,444

    Day 14 = 4,782,969

    Stay isolated

    Doesn't an R(0) of 3 provide more evidence that Oxford team may be right?
  • Floater said:

    tlg86 said:

    What a **** Jeremy Corbyn is.

    What's he done?
    Being a %%%%
    Well that's nothing new, but what specifically?
    Best watch it on playback
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,880
    eristdoof said:

    nichomar said:

    felix said:

    eadric said:

    nichomar said:
    Spain is still less than two weeks past its lockdown tho, isn’t it? So we shouldn’t expect an improvement yet?
    Unfortunately there is now pressure from both the opposition and the Coalition partners for more drastic measures - Sanchez must decide this w/e. Personally, I think he has done well and should be backed rather than pressured too much at this point.
    Worth noting that large parts of Spain are, statistically, safer than central London although obviously not in the larger cities.
    True, but not surprising. Large parts of the UK also have a lower risk of infection compared to Central London, as have large parts of New York State. This is just a result of the virus being spread by people and cities have a higher population density than in the country.
    Chinese data, I know. But apparently there was only ONE case recorded in Tibet.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,767

    tlg86 said:

    What a **** Jeremy Corbyn is.

    Ungracious to a generous tribute to him from Boris

    The country will not miss him
    Yes, the usual bitter snarl from Jezza.

    Good bloody riddance. Now we can have an Opposition back.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    Just seen it....What an absolute bell-end....now f##k off into your house and stay there you stupid little man, like you should be already.
  • guybrushguybrush Posts: 257

    Fire up the bloody Quattro...also doesn't mention the G-Tech scrapheap challenge solution.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/25/airbus-dyson-firms-waiting-uk-green-light-produce-ventilators-coronavirus

    Sounds like the Airbus consortium planning to bang out a licence built version of the Smith design is a winner. Some serious players involved (McClaren and GKN) who know a thing or two about manufacturing and presumably existing supply chains that could be leveraged.

    Less sure about the clean sheet designs being pursued by the various vacuum cleaner manufacturers. Got to be worth a punt in these circumstances, provided the gvmt is brave enough to shortcut usual regulatory approvals process.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Floater said:

    tlg86 said:

    What a **** Jeremy Corbyn is.

    What's he done?
    Being a %%%%
    Well that's nothing new, but what specifically?
    Boris payed him a very generous and undeserved compliment - Jezza acted like a knob in return
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    So patient zero passes it on to 3 people on day 1 etc etc

    Day 10

    3 to the power of 10=59,049

    Day 12 = 531,444

    Day 14 = 4,782,969

    Stay isolated

    Doesn't an R(0) of 3 provide more evidence that Oxford team may be right?
    At that rate of increase, yes. But their paper was more a plea to test their hypothesis than anything else.
This discussion has been closed.