The government really need more of this and not just for the Top Gear Gammoners...I did see a younger popular YouTuber doing something similar earlier today basically telling the yuff to not be a dickhead and why.
In Spanish I'm afraid but the article says PM Sanchez is under pressure from coalition partners and opposition parties to close down all economic activities beyond those essential for health and welfare this w/e. He has no majority on his own and unless we see an obvious flattening of the curve by the w/e he may be forced to implement an even more drastic lockdown. The problem is that Spain is trending almost as bad as Italy and nerves are fraying.
Spain seems possibly even worse than Italy.
Frightening.
What on earth do we all do, if, in a week, it seems that lockdowns do NOT work?
It’s no exaggeration to say that the next two weeks are maybe the most important for human civilization since the battle of Stalingrad, or the Battle of Britain. Or perhaps the Cuban missile crisis.
I rather think that it is.
You’re tediously autistic, but I’ll grant you this debate
This coming fortnight will be pivotal. In Spain and Italy, and maybe France, we will learn whether western attempts to copy China in Wuhan-lockdown will work.
Like Rcs my guess is they will, for now (but who knows what comes in the next wave). But if they don’t work we are confronted with a disease which will infect 30-80%, kills 1-3%, and crashes health systems, while already causing an economic contraction on a par with the Grest Depression.
I cannot think of a post Great War two week period (other than those I have described) which begins to match it.
Even in the tragic scenario, which we are all working to avoid, where we lose say 1% of people with an average age of 80 most already with serious illnesses, it is absurd hyperbole to put it up there with Nazi victories in the war or nuclear war breaking out in thr 60s.
But you have misidentified the problem. It isn't about death rates in the over 80s, it's about them taking long enough about dying to destroy health services and crash economies. And that has already happened. Airlines really are not flying, temporary hospitals for 4000 really are being set up in Canary Wharf. You mustn't let your inexplicable pique at a fellow poster blind you to these facts.
I’ve pondered whether it will lead to permanent changes in behaviour including people WFH more, seeing more of their family, getting more involved in teaching their children, earning less, but leading more fulfilled days. I’m working 0830 to 1730 with a few short breaks a day now and it’s amazing what I pack in. A hopelessly optimistic prognosis, sure, but I have pondered it.
As a work from homer for most of my adult life, I find it massively more efficient than going into an office.
By pure coincidence, I’d started WFH 4/5 days in Feb (I only did two days before). It’s great - the best thing about it is having calls and videoconferences on speaker whenever I like with perfect signal in total privacy, it really does beat the stairwell in my office block. Miss my one day a week in the office, but starting to get used to it.
In Spanish I'm afraid but the article says PM Sanchez is under pressure from coalition partners and opposition parties to close down all economic activities beyond those essential for health and welfare this w/e. He has no majority on his own and unless we see an obvious flattening of the curve by the w/e he may be forced to implement an even more drastic lockdown. The problem is that Spain is trending almost as bad as Italy and nerves are fraying.
Spain seems possibly even worse than Italy.
Frightening.
What on earth do we all do, if, in a week, it seems that lockdowns do NOT work?
It’s no exaggeration to say that the next two weeks are maybe the most important for human civilization since the battle of Stalingrad, or the Battle of Britain. Or perhaps the Cuban missile crisis.
I rather think that it is.
You’re tediously autistic, but I’ll grant you this debate
This coming fortnight will be pivotal. In Spain and Italy, and maybe France, we will learn whether western attempts to copy China in Wuhan-lockdown will work.
Like Rcs my guess is they will, for now (but who knows what comes in the next wave). But if they don’t work we are confronted with a disease which will infect 30-80%, kills 1-3%, and crashes health systems, while already causing an economic contraction on a par with the Grest Depression.
I cannot think of a post Great War two week period (other than those I have described) which begins to match it.
Even in the tragic scenario, which we are all working to avoid, where we lose say 1% of people with an average age of 80 most already with serious illnesses, it is absurd hyperbole to put it up there with Nazi victories in the war or nuclear war breaking out in thr 60s.
But you have misidentified the problem. It isn't about death rates in the over 80s, it's about them taking long enough about dying to destroy health services and crash economies. And that has already happened. Airlines really are not flying, temporary hospitals for 4000 really are being set up in Canary Wharf. You mustn't let your inexplicable pique at a fellow poster blind you to these facts.
I do think a national government will be useful when things start fraying, I'm talking of two scenarios
1) The lockdown is extended, far too many people think it will only last 3 weeks or something close to 12 weeks.
2) We really do flatten the curve so people get complacent and want to leave the lockdown quicker than the experts want, or if we need a second lockdown later on this year.
Which is obviously going to happen. The lockdown will end, we'll all go out and party like it's the f*cking millennium, and everyone will catch it. I can't wait to be honest.
If you believe the Oxford report today 50% of the population already has it anyway in some form
I don't believe the 50% have it, and 90% are symptomless, because:
1. We're still getting 70% negatives from the CV-19 tests. Are we really expected to believe that the people being tested are less likely to have the virus than the general population?
2. When one member of a family gets it, one would expect the other members - in most cases - to be symptom-free. If a man has sympotmatic CV-19, then there'd only be a 10% chance that his wife had symptoms. Yet, (anectode alert) I see more like 50%.
Now, if you told me that 15% of London had had CV-19, and that a further 25% of people were genetically predisposed not to get it (genes, blood type, etc.), that would seem very plausible to me.
But the test doesn’t show whether you have had it, merely whether you have it now. As below, Oxford assumes many of us have recovered.
The second point would be dealt with via viral load - if you are living with a carrier you are more likely to be infected over and over, unless you are suitably careful, in a similar way to people on the cruise ship and nurses in the hospitals.
I thought @Charles demolished this 'viral load' theory on here yesterday.
He expressed a view. He didn't demolish it. There were several contrary views.
The original Facebook post confused viral load with viral shedding.
That's a big pointer that it was all a load of bollocks.
On topic, parliament should be meeting online, it's not rocket science. We've had too much consensus already - in the last few weeks as the government was creating one of the worst failures in modern British political history the opposition was mostly coming from Rory Stewart and Jeremy Hunt. The next Labour leader should be less awful that the current one, so let's see the opposition oppose.
I have no idea where you are coming from on this but these decisions are made on the recommendations of the medical and scientific advisors to the government, agreed in Cobra attended by Sturgeon, Drakeford, Foster and Khan among others, and then coordinated legislation through the HOC and implemention across the devolved adminstrations and England
I assume you do not live in the UK because if you did you would see how much the public back the government and today in North Wales on my trip to take my wife for a blood test there was near 100% compliance
There are too many outsiders across Europe and elsewhere criticising HMG when they should be dealing with their own issues on covid 19
You have a bunch of people dying, your economy is getting wrecked, and you are literally banned from leaving your house. In a number of countries faced with the exact same disease, with less time to plan for it, the government acted promptly to take less disruptive actions than the ones your government was eventually forced to take and these things did not happen.
Now, it's true that the countries involved are not exactly the same, and the story is not yet completely written - it could still go wrong in places that currently appear to be containing it successfully. But apparently not only can you not understand that your government may have done something wrong, apparently you believe that since British scientific advisers were involved, the government cannot have done anything wrong by definition.
You cannot tell at this stage which countries have been better than others
The UK does not take to authoritarian edicts and they have to be persuaded
HMG have followed the advice all the way and if they had not they would be in real trouble. If that advice is wrong then so be it, but no politician could justify going against advice on something as big as this
And by the way, Varadkar only caught us up today though his measures are not as strict as HMG
And please tell me which country has avoided a 'bunch' as you call them of deaths and avoided economic armageddon
I certainly think that the author who gave an interview to the FT was going well beyond the science. I do not enjoy scientists who try to crowbar publicity for themselves, even when it's not in such a serious public health context.
I don't even think that they can "argue for it (p) to be small". There's no evidence for that, that I could find in their paper.
The thing that stood out for me, was the basis that it had been in the UK since mid January, thus one has to conclude it was in Italy before the end of last year at the latest. Its possible I guess, but seems unlikely given the established timeline in China.
On topic, parliament should be meeting online, it's not rocket science. We've had too much consensus already - in the last few weeks as the government was creating one of the worst failures in modern British political history the opposition was mostly coming from Rory Stewart and Jeremy Hunt. The next Labour leader should be less awful that the current one, so let's see the opposition oppose.
I have no idea where you are coming from on this but these decisions are made on the recommendations of the medical and scientific advisors to the government, agreed in Cobra attended by Sturgeon, Drakeford, Foster and Khan among others, and then coordinated legislation through the HOC and implemention across the devolved adminstrations and England
I assume you do not live in the UK because if you did you would see how much the public back the government and today in North Wales on my trip to take my wife for a blood test there was near 100% compliance
There are too many outsiders across Europe and elsewhere criticising HMG when they should be dealing with their own issues on covid 19
You have a bunch of people dying, your economy is getting wrecked, and you are literally banned from leaving your house. In a number of countries faced with the exact same disease, with less time to plan for it, the government acted promptly to take less disruptive actions than the ones your government was eventually forced to take and these things did not happen.
Now, it's true that the countries involved are not exactly the same, and the story is not yet completely written - it could still go wrong in places that currently appear to be containing it successfully. But apparently not only can you not understand that your government may have done something wrong, apparently you believe that since British scientific advisers were involved, the government cannot have done anything wrong by definition.
You cannot tell at this stage which countries have been better than others
The UK does not take to authoritarian edicts and they have to be persuaded
[more stuff on why the British
And please tell me which country has avoided a 'bunch' as you call them of deaths and avoided economic armageddon
You are talking nonsense from a long way away
South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Japan all acted promptly and flattened the curve before (touchwood) it got out of control and they had to shut down their economies.
Of these, only Singapore is authoritarian, other successes include robust democracies, some of them much less consensual than the UK.
In Japan some organizations are doing events in defiance of the government recommendation, the government has no legal authority to stop them, and the governor of that jurisdiction was reduced to going over there and asking them to stop, which they didn't.
The residents of Hong Kong spent the last 6 months fighting pitched battles with their government.
This is one of the big failures of English-language reporting: They talk about what's happening in Asia, but mostly through the prism of China, which is fascinatingly epic and dystopian, rather than the democracies that achieved the same goals without authoritarianism. The difference with the western countries that failed isn't that they're authoritarian, it's that they'd previously been knocked on their arses by SARS (or in Japan's case various cruise ship fails), while the British were still trying to tackle the new threat like it was a 20th Century flu pandemic.
On topic. No. Go inside the tent you can’t then be an effective opposition, calling out the incompetence and publishing the inevitable leaks that are coming.
On topic, parliament should be meeting online, it's not rocket science. We've had too much consensus already - in the last few weeks as the government was creating one of the worst failures in modern British political history the opposition was mostly coming from Rory Stewart and Jeremy Hunt. The next Labour leader should be less awful that the current one, so let's see the opposition oppose.
I have no idea where you are coming from on this but these decisions are made on the recommendations of the medical and scientific advisors to the government, agreed in Cobra attended by Sturgeon, Drakeford, Foster and Khan among others, and then coordinated legislation through the HOC and implemention across the devolved adminstrations and England
I assume you do not live in the UK because if you did you would see how much the public back the government and today in North Wales on my trip to take my wife for a blood test there was near 100% compliance
There are too many outsiders across Europe and elsewhere criticising HMG when they should be dealing with their own issues on covid 19
You have a bunch of people dying, your economy is getting wrecked, and you are literally banned from leaving your house. In a number of countries faced with the exact same disease, with less time to plan for it, the government acted promptly to take less disruptive actions than the ones your government was eventually forced to take and these things did not happen.
Now, it's true that the countries involved are not exactly the same, and the story is not yet completely written - it could still go wrong in places that currently appear to be containing it successfully. But apparently not only can you not understand that your government may have done something wrong, apparently you believe that since British scientific advisers were involved, the government cannot have done anything wrong by definition.
You cannot tell at this stage which countries have been better than others
The UK does not take to authoritarian edicts and they have to be persuaded
[more stuff on why the British
And please tell me which country has avoided a 'bunch' as you call them of deaths and avoided economic armageddon
You are talking nonsense from a long way away
South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Japan all acted promptly and flattened the curve before (touchwood) it got out of control and they had to shut down their economies.
Of these, only Singapore is authoritarian, other successes include robust democracies, some of them much less consensual than the UK.
In Japan some organizations are doing events in defiance of the government recommendation, the government has no legal authority to stop them, and the governor of that jurisdiction was reduced to going over there and asking them to stop, which they didn't.
The residents of Hong Kong spent the last 6 months fighting pitched battles with their government.
This is one of the big failures of English-language reporting: They talk about what's happening in Asia, but mostly through the prism of China, which is fascinatingly epic and dystopian, rather than the democracies that achieved the same goals without authoritarianism. The difference with the western countries that failed isn't that they're authoritarian, it's that they'd previously been knocked on their arses by SARS (or in Japan's case various cruise ship fails), while the British were still trying to tackle the new threat like it was a 20th Century flu pandemic.
India has announced that one of the available penalties for refusing to stay at home during the lockdown will be being forced to do press-ups.
That's not a bad idea. I reckon having to try and do the one of the classic military Fitness tests (I think the US army one is x push-ups in 2 mins, x sit-ups in 2 mins, 2 mile run) is way more of a disincentive than £30 fine.
I think you have to keep redoing it until you pass :-)
On topic, parliament should be meeting online, it's not rocket science. We've had too much consensus already - in the last few weeks as the government was creating one of the worst failures in modern British political history the opposition was mostly coming from Rory Stewart and Jeremy Hunt. The next Labour leader should be less awful that the current one, so let's see the opposition oppose.
I have no idea where you are coming from on this but these decisions are made on the recommendations of the medical and scientific advisors to the government, agreed in Cobra attended by Sturgeon, Drakeford, Foster and Khan among others, and then coordinated legislation through the HOC and implemention across the devolved adminstrations and England
I assume you do not live in the UK because if you did you would see how much the public back the government and today in North Wales on my trip to take my wife for a blood test there was near 100% compliance
There are too many outsiders across Europe and elsewhere criticising HMG when they should be dealing with their own issues on covid 19
You have a bunch of people dying, your economy is getting wrecked, and you are literally banned from leaving your house. In a number of countries faced with the exact same disease, with less time to plan for it, the government acted promptly to take less disruptive actions than the ones your government was eventually forced to take and these things did not happen.
Now, it's true that the countries involved are not exactly the same, and the story is not yet completely written - it could still go wrong in places that currently appear to be containing it successfully. But apparently not only can you not understand that your government may have done something wrong, apparently you believe that since British scientific advisers were involved, the government cannot have done anything wrong by definition.
You cannot tell at this stage which countries have been better than others
The UK does not take to authoritarian edicts and they have to be persuaded
HMG have followed the advice all the way and if they had not they would be in real trouble. If that advice is wrong then so be it, but no politician could justify going against advice on something as big as this
And by the way, Varadkar only caught us up today though his measures are not as strict as HMG
And please tell me which country has avoided a 'bunch' as you call them of deaths and avoided economic armageddon
You are talking nonsense from a long way away
It’s not nonsense.
They were always following the science and the experts? But you just posted “ The UK does not take to authoritarian edicts and they have to be persuaded‘ an admittance it’s culture not solely science. And politics. And the lobby system. And ideology. And Cummings.
Certainly had the sense last week the people and media were rallying around the government. I sense that changing this week. The two week herd immunity experiment they started off with now coming home as the catastrophic balls up it was, before they gave in to WHO demands and fell inline with most the rest of the world
On topic, parliament should be meeting online, it's not rocket science. We've had too much consensus already - in the last few weeks as the government was creating one of the worst failures in modern British political history the opposition was mostly coming from Rory Stewart and Jeremy Hunt. The next Labour leader should be less awful that the current one, so let's see the opposition oppose.
I have no idea where you are coming from on this but these decisions are made on the recommendations of the medical and scientific advisors to the government, agreed in Cobra attended by Sturgeon, Drakeford, Foster and Khan among others, and then coordinated legislation through the HOC and implemention across the devolved adminstrations and England
I assume you do not live in the UK because if you did you would see how much the public back the government and today in North Wales on my trip to take my wife for a blood test there was near 100% compliance
There are too many outsiders across Europe and elsewhere criticising HMG when they should be dealing with their own issues on covid 19
You have a bunch of people dying, your economy is getting wrecked, and you are literally banned from leaving your house. In a number of countries faced with the exact same disease, with less time to plan for it, the government acted promptly to take less disruptive actions than the ones your government was eventually forced to take and these things did not happen.
Now, it's true that the countries involved are not exactly the same, and the story is not yet completely written - it could still go wrong in places that currently appear to be containing it successfully. But apparently not only can you not understand that your government may have done something wrong, apparently you believe that since British scientific advisers were involved, the government cannot have done anything wrong by definition.
You cannot tell at this stage which countries have been better than others
The UK does not take to authoritarian edicts and they have to be persuaded
HMG have followed the advice all the way and if they had not they would be in real trouble. If that advice is wrong then so be it, but no politician could justify going against advice on something as big as this
And by the way, Varadkar only caught us up today though his measures are not as strict as HMG
And please tell me which country has avoided a 'bunch' as you call them of deaths and avoided economic armageddon
You are talking nonsense from a long way away
It’s not nonsense.
They were always following the science and the experts? But you just posted “ The UK does not take to authoritarian edicts and they have to be persuaded‘ an admittance it’s culture not solely science. And politics. And the lobby system. And ideology. And Cummings.
Certainly had the sense last week the people and media were rallying around the government. I sense that changing this week. The two week herd immunity experiment they started off with now coming home as the catastrophic balls up it was, before they gave in to WHO demands and fell inline with most the rest of the world
Isn't this what COBR is for? Isn't Sturgeon attending COBR on behalf of the Scottish Government?
I don't see a point in a GONU which would just have unnecessary disruption, but an immediate invitation to Starmer (if he wins) to attend COBR for the duration of this epidemic should be sent.
On topic, parliament should be meeting online, it's not rocket science. We've had too much consensus already - in the last few weeks as the government was creating one of the worst failures in modern British political history the opposition was mostly coming from Rory Stewart and Jeremy Hunt. The next Labour leader should be less awful that the current one, so let's see the opposition oppose.
I have no idea where you are coming from on this but these decisions are made on the recommendations of the medical and scientific advisors to the government, agreed in Cobra attended by Sturgeon, Drakeford, Foster and Khan among others, and then coordinated legislation through the HOC and implemention across the devolved adminstrations and England
I assume you do not live in the UK because if you did you would see how much the public back the government and today in North Wales on my trip to take my wife for a blood test there was near 100% compliance
There are too many outsiders across Europe and elsewhere criticising HMG when they should be dealing with their own issues on covid 19
You have a bunch of people dying, your economy is getting wrecked, and you are literally banned from leaving your house. In a number of countries faced with the exact same disease, with less time to plan for it, the government acted promptly to take less disruptive actions than the ones your government was eventually forced to take and these things did not happen.
Now, it's true that the countries involved are not exactly the same, and the story is not yet completely written - it could still go wrong in places that currently appear to be containing it successfully. But apparently not only can you not understand that your government may have done something wrong, apparently you believe that since British scientific advisers were involved, the government cannot have done anything wrong by definition.
You cannot tell at this stage which countries have been better than others
The UK does not take to authoritarian edicts and they have to be persuaded
HMG have followed the advice all the way and if they had not they would be in real trouble. If that advice is wrong then so be it, but no politician could justify going against advice on something as big as this
And by the way, Varadkar only caught us up today though his measures are not as strict as HMG
And please tell me which country has avoided a 'bunch' as you call them of deaths and avoided economic armageddon
You are talking nonsense from a long way away
It’s not nonsense.
They were always following the science and the experts? But you just posted “ The UK does not take to authoritarian edicts and they have to be persuaded‘ an admittance it’s culture not solely science. And politics. And the lobby system. And ideology. And Cummings.
Certainly had the sense last week the people and media were rallying around the government. I sense that changing this week. The two week herd immunity experiment they started off with now coming home as the catastrophic balls up it was, before they gave in to WHO demands and fell inline with most the rest of the world
Meanwhile, in Bernie's parallel universe, where he still might be president, and his country isn't about to enter its darkest hour since the civil war...
Meanwhile, in Bernie's parallel universe, where he still might be president, and his country isn't about to enter its darkest hour since the civil war...
Is Slippery Sunak the Snake beginning to back pedal on last weeks whatever it takes?
To be fair he shouldn’t have stoked last weeks promises because he technically couldn’t achieve them. You can commit large of sums money to the long term, but not short term money growing on trees hand out.
I presume Putin always has that hazmat suit on hand given how keen he is on releasing chemical weapons agents into the environment in an uncontrolled manner.
I do think a national government will be useful when things start fraying, I'm talking of two scenarios
1) The lockdown is extended, far too many people think it will only last 3 weeks or something close to 12 weeks.
2) We really do flatten the curve so people get complacent and want to leave the lockdown quicker than the experts want, or if we need a second lockdown later on this year.
Which is obviously going to happen. The lockdown will end, we'll all go out and party like it's the f*cking millennium, and everyone will catch it. I can't wait to be honest.
If you believe the Oxford report today 50% of the population already has it anyway in some form
I don't believe the 50% have it, and 90% are symptomless, because:
1. We're still getting 70% negatives from the CV-19 tests. Are we really expected to believe that the people being tested are less likely to have the virus than the general population?
2. When one member of a family gets it, one would expect the other members - in most cases - to be symptom-free. If a man has sympotmatic CV-19, then there'd only be a 10% chance that his wife had symptoms. Yet, (anectode alert) I see more like 50%.
Now, if you told me that 15% of London had had CV-19, and that a further 25% of people were genetically predisposed not to get it (genes, blood type, etc.), that would seem very plausible to me.
But the test doesn’t show whether you have had it, merely whether you have it now. As below, Oxford assumes many of us have recovered.
The second point would be dealt with via viral load - if you are living with a carrier you are more likely to be infected over and over, unless you are suitably careful, in a similar way to people on the cruise ship and nurses in the hospitals.
I thought @Charles demolished this 'viral load' theory on here yesterday.
He expressed a view. He didn't demolish it. There were several contrary views.
The original Facebook post confused viral load with viral shedding.
That's a big pointer that it was all a load of bollocks.
No you misunderstood. The point was about the load acquired by the newly infected patient. Shedding is what those who are contagious do.
Meanwhile, in Bernie's parallel universe, where he still might be president, and his country isn't about to enter its darkest hour since the civil war...
On topic, parliament should be meeting online, it's not rocket science. We've had too much consensus already - in the last few weeks as the government was creating one of the worst failures in modern British political history the opposition was mostly coming from Rory Stewart and Jeremy Hunt. The next Labour leader should be less awful that the current one, so let's see the opposition oppose.
I have no idea where you are coming from on this but these decisions are made on the recommendations of the medical and scientific advisors to the government
There are too many outsiders across Europe and elsewhere criticising HMG when they should be dealing with their own issues on covid 19
You have a bunch of people dying, your economy is getting wrecked, and you are literally banned from leaving your house.
You cannot tell at this stage which countries have been better than others
The UK does not take to authoritarian edicts and they have to be persuaded
HMG have followed the advice all the way and if they had not they would be in real trouble. If that advice is wrong then so be it, but no politician could justify going against advice on something as big as this
And by the way, Varadkar only caught us up today though his measures are not as strict as HMG
And please tell me which country has avoided a 'bunch' as you call them of deaths and avoided economic armageddon
You are talking nonsense from a long way away
It’s not nonsense.
They were always following the science and the experts? But you just posted “ The UK does not take to authoritarian edicts and they have to be persuaded‘ an admittance it’s culture not solely science. And politics. And the lobby system. And ideology. And Cummings.
Certainly had the sense last week the people and media were rallying around the government. I sense that changing this week. The two week herd immunity experiment they started off with now coming home as the catastrophic balls up it was, before they gave in to WHO demands and fell inline with most the rest of the world
It should only have been considered for two minutes, Cummings got his way for two weeks because the idiot is much powerful in this government
The Sun - Piers Morgan??? That's raised the level of debate.
No? Then I will.
One part of the argument is has the government always been following the science. Well it’s not even an argument anymore, with the two week herd immunity experiment at the start they haven’t been have they.
The second part of the argument is should you follow the science. And this isn’t an argument that can be won, just like faith v reason can never be won. To some people “we can’t know everything, we should listen to the scientists to fill the gaps” is entirely reasonable just what they want to hear. To others, like me, it’s dangerous lazy bollox to blindly place your faith into the hands of science. Science cares not for the conscious awareness we need in our liberal democracy and political decision making.
Is Slippery Sunak the Snake beginning to back pedal on last weeks whatever it takes?
To be fair he shouldn’t have stoked last weeks promises because he technically couldn’t achieve them. You can commit large of sums money to the long term, but not short term money growing on trees hand out.
Is Slippery Sunak the Snake some existing nickname he has? Otherwise it seems a bit early in his career to be trying to label him so definitively, just as it would be to crown him the new saviour.
On topic, parliament should be meeting online, it's not rocket science. We've had too much consensus already - in the last few weeks as the government was creating one of the worst failures in modern British political history the opposition was mostly coming from Rory Stewart and Jeremy Hunt. The next Labour leader should be less awful that the current one, so let's see the opposition oppose.
I have no idea where you are coming from on this but these decisions are made on the recommendations of the medical and scientific advisors to the government
There are too many outsiders across Europe and elsewhere criticising HMG when they should be dealing with their own issues on covid 19
You have a bunch of people dying, your economy is getting wrecked, and you are literally banned from leaving your house.
You cannot tell at this stage which countries have been better than others
The UK does not take to authoritarian edicts and they have to be persuaded
HMG have followed the advice all the way and if they had not they would be in real trouble. If that advice is wrong then so be it, but no politician could justify going against advice on something as big as this
And by the way, Varadkar only caught us up today though his measures are not as strict as HMG
And please tell me which country has avoided a 'bunch' as you call them of deaths and avoided economic armageddon
You are talking nonsense from a long way away
It’s not nonsense.
They were always following the science and the experts? But you just posted “ The UK does not take to authoritarian edicts and they have to be persuaded‘ an admittance it’s culture not solely science. And politics. And the lobby system. And ideology. And Cummings.
Certainly had the sense last week the people and media were rallying around the government. I sense that changing this week. The two week herd immunity experiment they started off with now coming home as the catastrophic balls up it was, before they gave in to WHO demands and fell inline with most the rest of the world
It should only have been considered for two minutes, Cummings got his way for two weeks because the idiot is much powerful in this government
The Sun - Piers Morgan??? That's raised the level of debate.
No? Then I will.
One part of the argument is has the government always been following the science. Well it’s not even an argument anymore, with the two week herd immunity experiment at the start they haven’t been have they.
The second part of the argument is should you follow the science. And this isn’t an argument that can be won, just like faith v reason can never be won. To some people “we can’t know everything, we should listen to the scientists to fill the gaps” is entirely reasonable just what they want to hear. To others, like me, it’s dangerous lazy bollox to blindly place your faith into the hands of science. Science cares not for the conscious awareness we need in our liberal democracy and political decision making.
Science has given us the standard of living we have to day by means of such things as electricity, agriculture, medicine.
The sort of faith you refer to has given us several million dead, suppression of women for centuries, othering of the non faithful and shameful actions against them. Persecution of those that won't submit to a judeo/christian/muslim beard in the skies rules even if they are harming no one.
This is the kind of action I'm talking about, but with Singapore-style compulsion, rather than Japan/SK-style recommendation. They're closing bars, shutting down large gatherings, and requiring restaurants to reduce density. You stop the 10% of stuff that gives you maybe 90% of the effect.
If you do things like this before cases get out of hand, that seems to be effective at avoiding the need to shut everything down. In Europe and the US, many countries including Britain did too little too late, and that's why you're no longer allowed to leave your house.
Most likely this is the kind of thing Britain will ultimately be doing when it emerges from the lockdown.
Is Slippery Sunak the Snake beginning to back pedal on last weeks whatever it takes?
To be fair he shouldn’t have stoked last weeks promises because he technically couldn’t achieve them. You can commit large of sums money to the long term, but not short term money growing on trees hand out.
Is Slippery Sunak the Snake some existing nickname he has? Otherwise it seems a bit early in his career to be trying to label him so definitively, just as it would be to crown him the new saviour.
No. Politics moving fast at the moment. How much slipping away from last weeks whatever it takes give away from magic money forest will it take for saviour of the hour to forever be the snake? The answer can only be explaining how he achieves last weeks promises. The eve of his unexpected announcements the government supporters on this blog were explaining how there are limits and he couldn’t cave into opposition demands. Was the lectern budget economics, that protects your share price long term, or a panicky form of we are getting outflanked politics
Maybe the idiot journalists could try and repeat this stuff, rather than worrying about if their freelance mate will get pulled over by the rozzers...A bloody footballer is speaking more sense.
On topic, parliament should be meeting online, it's not rocket science. We've had too much consensus already - in the last few weeks as the government was creating one of the worst failures in modern British political history the opposition was mostly coming from Rory Stewart and Jeremy Hunt. The next Labour leader should be less awful that the current one, so let's see the opposition oppose.
I have no idea where you are coming from on this but these decisions are made on the recommendations of the medical and scientific advisors to the government
There are too many outsiders across Europe and elsewhere criticising HMG when they should be dealing with their own issues on covid 19
You have a bunch of people dying, your economy is getting wrecked, and you are literally banned from leaving your house.
You cannot tell at this stage which countries have been better than others
The UK does not take to authoritarian edicts and they have to be persuaded
HMG have followed the advice all the way and if they had not they would be in real trouble. If that advice is wrong then so be it, but no politician could justify going against advice on something as big as this
And by the way, Varadkar only caught us up today though his measures are not as strict as HMG
And please tell me which country has avoided a 'bunch' as you call them of deaths and avoided economic armageddon
You are talking nonsense from a long way away
It’s not nonsense.
They were always following the science and the experts? But you just posted “ The UK does not take to authoritarian edicts and they have to be persuaded‘ an admittance it’s culture not solely science. And politics. And the lobby system. And ideology. And Cummings.
Certainly had the sense last week the people and media were rallying around the government. I sense that changing this week. The two week herd immunity experiment they started off with now coming home as the catastrophic balls up it was, before they gave in to WHO demands and fell inline with most the rest of the world
It should only have been considered for two minutes, Cummings got his way for two weeks because the idiot is much powerful in this government
The Sun - Piers Morgan??? That's raised the level of debate.
No? Then I will.
One part of the argument is has the government always been following the science. Well it’s not even an argument anymore, with the two week herd immunity experiment at the start they haven’t been have they.
The second part of the argument is should you follow the science. And this isn’t an argument that can be won, just like faith v reason can never be won. To some people “we can’t know everything, we should listen to the scientists to fill the gaps” is entirely reasonable just what they want to hear. To others, like me, it’s dangerous lazy bollox to blindly place your faith into the hands of science. Science cares not for the conscious awareness we need in our liberal democracy and political decision making.
science = dangerous bollox. The earth is definitely flat.
Is Slippery Sunak the Snake beginning to back pedal on last weeks whatever it takes?
To be fair he shouldn’t have stoked last weeks promises because he technically couldn’t achieve them. You can commit large of sums money to the long term, but not short term money growing on trees hand out.
Is Slippery Sunak the Snake some existing nickname he has? Otherwise it seems a bit early in his career to be trying to label him so definitively, just as it would be to crown him the new saviour.
No. Politics moving fast at the moment. How much slipping away from last weeks whatever it takes give away from magic money forest will it take for saviour of the hour to forever be the snake? The answer can only be explaining how he achieves last weeks promises. The eve of his unexpected announcements the government supporters on this blog were explaining how there are limits and he couldn’t cave into opposition demands. Was the lectern budget economics, that protects your share price long term, or a panicky form of we are getting outflanked politics
There was only one tory on here explaining how it was limited and that was HYUFD
On topic, parliament should be meeting online, it's not rocket science. We've had too much consensus already - in the last few weeks as the government was creating one of the worst failures in modern British political history the opposition was mostly coming from Rory Stewart and Jeremy Hunt. The next Labour leader should be less awful that the current one, so let's see the opposition oppose.
I have no idea where you are coming from on this but these decisions are made on the recommendations of the medical and scientific advisors to the government
There are too many outsiders across Europe and elsewhere criticising HMG when they should be dealing with their own issues on covid 19
You have a bunch of people dying, your economy is getting wrecked, and you are literally banned from leaving your house.
You cannot tell at this stage which countries have been better than others
The UK does not take to authoritarian edicts and they have to be persuaded
HMG have followed the advice all the way and if they had not they would be in real trouble. If that advice is wrong then so be it, but no politician could justify going against advice on something as big as this
And by the way, Varadkar only caught us up today though his measures are not as strict as HMG
And please tell me which country has avoided a 'bunch' as you call them of deaths and avoided economic armageddon
You are talking nonsense from a long way away
It’s not nonsense.
They were always following the science and the experts? But you just posted “ The UK does not take to authoritarian edicts and they have to be persuaded‘ an admittance it’s culture not solely science. And politics. And the lobby system. And ideology. And Cummings.
Certainly had the sense last week the people and media were rallying around the government. I sense that changing this week. The two week herd immunity experiment they started off with now coming home as the catastrophic balls up it was, before they gave in to WHO demands and fell inline with most the rest of the world
It should only have been considered for two minutes, Cummings got his way for two weeks because the idiot is much powerful in this government
The Sun - Piers Morgan??? That's raised the level of debate.
No? Then I will.
One part of the argument is has the government always been following the science. Well it’s not even an argument anymore, with the two week herd immunity experiment at the start they haven’t been have they.
The second part of the argument is should you follow the science. And this isn’t an argument that can be won, just like faith v reason can never be won. To some people “we can’t know everything, we should listen to the scientists to fill the gaps” is entirely reasonable just what they want to hear. To others, like me, it’s dangerous lazy bollox to blindly place your faith into the hands of science. Science cares not for the conscious awareness we need in our liberal democracy and political decision making.
Science has given us the standard of living we have to day by means of such things as electricity, agriculture, medicine.
The sort of faith you refer to has given us several million dead, suppression of women for centuries, othering of the non faithful and shameful actions against them. Persecution of those that won't submit to a judeo/christian/muslim beard in the skies rules even if they are harming no one.
I will take science thanks
As a scientist who is not religious, I ask you to please stop spouting this hatred, especially at a time like this.
On topic, parliament should be meeting online, it's not rocket science. We've had too much consensus already - in the last few weeks as the government was creating one of the worst failures in modern British political history the opposition was mostly coming from Rory Stewart and Jeremy Hunt. The next Labour leader should be less awful that the current one, so let's see the opposition oppose.
I have no idea where you are coming from on this but these decisions are made on the recommendations of the medical and scientific advisors to the government
There are too many outsiders across Europe and elsewhere criticising HMG when they should be dealing with their own issues on covid 19
You have a bunch of people dying, your economy is getting wrecked, and you are literally banned from leaving your house.
You cannot tell at this stage which countries have been better than others
The UK does not take to authoritarian edicts and they have to be persuaded
HMG have followed the advice all the way and if they had not they would be in real trouble. If that advice is wrong then so be it, but no politician could justify going against advice on something as big as this
And by the way, Varadkar only caught us up today though his measures are not as strict as HMG
And please tell me which country has avoided a 'bunch' as you call them of deaths and avoided economic armageddon
You are talking nonsense from a long way away
It’s not nonsense.
They were always following the science and the experts? But you just posted “ The UK does not take to authoritarian edicts and they have to be persuaded‘ an admittance it’s culture not solely science. And politics. And the lobby system. And ideology. And Cummings.
Certainly had the sense last week the people and media were rallying around the government. I sense that changing this week. The two week herd immunity experiment they started off with now coming home as the catastrophic balls up it was, before they gave in to WHO demands and fell inline with most the rest of the world
It should only have been considered for two minutes, Cummings got his way for two weeks because the idiot is much powerful in this government
The Sun - Piers Morgan??? That's raised the level of debate.
No? Then I will.
One part of the argument is has the government always been following the science. Well it’s not even an argument anymore, with the two week herd immunity experiment at the start they haven’t been have they.
The second part of the argument is should you follow the science. And this isn’t an argument that can be won, just like faith v reason can never be won. To some people “we can’t know everything, we should listen to the scientists to fill the gaps” is entirely reasonable just what they want to hear. To others, like me, it’s dangerous lazy bollox to blindly place your faith into the hands of science. Science cares not for the conscious awareness we need in our liberal democracy and political decision making.
Science has given us the standard of living we have to day by means of such things as electricity, agriculture, medicine.
The sort of faith you refer to has given us several million dead, suppression of women for centuries, othering of the non faithful and shameful actions against them. Persecution of those that won't submit to a judeo/christian/muslim beard in the skies rules even if they are harming no one.
On topic, parliament should be meeting online, it's not rocket science. We've had too much consensus already - in the last few weeks as the government was creating one of the worst failures in modern British political history the opposition was mostly coming from Rory Stewart and Jeremy Hunt. The next Labour leader should be less awful that the current one, so let's see the opposition oppose.
I have no idea where you are coming from on this but these decisions are made on the recommendations of the medical and scientific advisors to the government
There are too many outsiders across Europe and elsewhere criticising HMG when they should be dealing with their own issues on covid 19
You have a bunch of people dying, your economy is getting wrecked, and you are literally banned from leaving your house.
You cannot tell at this stage which countries have been better than others
The UK does not take to authoritarian edicts and they have to be persuaded
HMG have followed the advice all the way and if they had not they would be in real trouble. If that advice is wrong then so be it, but no politician could justify going against advice on something as big as this
And by the way, Varadkar only caught us up today though his measures are not as strict as HMG
And please tell me which country has avoided a 'bunch' as you call them of deaths and avoided economic armageddon
You are talking nonsense from a long way away
It’s not nonsense.
They were always following the science and the experts? But you just posted “ The UK does not take to authoritarian edicts and they have to be persuaded‘ an admittance it’s culture not solely science. And politics. And the lobby system. And ideology. And Cummings.
Certainly had the sense last week the people and media were rallying around the government. I sense that changing this week. The two week herd immunity experiment they started off with now coming home as the catastrophic balls up it was, before they gave in to WHO demands and fell inline with most the rest of the world
It should only have been considered for two minutes, Cummings got his way for two weeks because the idiot is much powerful in this government
The Sun - Piers Morgan??? That's raised the level of debate.
No? Then I will.
One part of the argument is has the government always been following the science. Well it’s not even an argument anymore, with the two week herd immunity experiment at the start they haven’t been have they.
The second part of the argument is should you follow the science. And this isn’t an argument that can be won, just like faith v reason can never be won. To some people “we can’t know everything, we should listen to the scientists to fill the gaps” is entirely reasonable just what they want to hear. To others, like me, it’s dangerous lazy bollox to blindly place your faith into the hands of science. Science cares not for the conscious awareness we need in our liberal democracy and political decision making.
Science has given us the standard of living we have to day by means of such things as electricity, agriculture, medicine.
The sort of faith you refer to has given us several million dead, suppression of women for centuries, othering of the non faithful and shameful actions against them. Persecution of those that won't submit to a judeo/christian/muslim beard in the skies rules even if they are harming no one.
I will take science thanks
As a scientist who is not religious, I ask you to please stop spouting this hatred, especially at a time like this.
As someone who was a scientist till ill health took me out of a lab sorry tough wasn't me turning round in the first place and claiming faith was more important than science
This is the kind of action I'm talking about, but with Singapore-style compulsion, rather than Japan/SK-style recommendation. They're closing bars, shutting down large gatherings, and requiring restaurants to reduce density. You stop the 10% of stuff that gives you maybe 90% of the effect.
If you do things like this before cases get out of hand, that seems to be effective at avoiding the need to shut everything down. In Europe and the US, many countries including Britain did too little too late, and that's why you're no longer allowed to leave your house.
Most likely this is the kind of thing Britain will ultimately be doing when it emerges from the lockdown.
Is Slippery Sunak the Snake beginning to back pedal on last weeks whatever it takes?
To be fair he shouldn’t have stoked last weeks promises because he technically couldn’t achieve them. You can commit large of sums money to the long term, but not short term money growing on trees hand out.
Is Slippery Sunak the Snake some existing nickname he has? Otherwise it seems a bit early in his career to be trying to label him so definitively, just as it would be to crown him the new saviour.
No. Politics moving fast at the moment. How much slipping away from last weeks whatever it takes give away from magic money forest will it take for saviour of the hour to forever be the snake? The answer can only be explaining how he achieves last weeks promises. The eve of his unexpected announcements the government supporters on this blog were explaining how there are limits and he couldn’t cave into opposition demands. Was the lectern budget economics, that protects your share price long term, or a panicky form of we are getting outflanked politics
On topic, parliament should be meeting online, it's not rocket science. We've had too much consensus already - in the last few weeks as the government was creating one of the worst failures in modern British political history the opposition was mostly coming from Rory Stewart and Jeremy Hunt. The next Labour leader should be less awful that the current one, so let's see the opposition oppose.
I have no idea where you are coming from on this but these decisions are made on the recommendations of the medical and scientific advisors to the government
There are too many outsiders across Europe and elsewhere criticising HMG when they should be dealing with their own issues on covid 19
You have a bunch of people dying, your economy is getting wrecked, and you are literally banned from leaving your house.
You cannot tell at this stage which countries have been better than others
The UK does not take to authoritarian edicts and they have to be persuaded
HMG have followed the advice all the way and if they had not they would be in real trouble. If that advice is wrong then so be it, but no politician could justify going against advice on something as big as this
And by the way, Varadkar only caught us up today though his measures are not as strict as HMG
And please tell me which country has avoided a 'bunch' as you call them of deaths and avoided economic armageddon
You are talking nonsense from a long way away
It’s not nonsense.
They were always following the science and the experts? But you just posted “ The UK does not take to authoritarian edicts and they have to be persuaded‘ an admittance it’s culture not solely science. And politics. And the lobby system. And ideology. And Cummings.
Certainly had the sense last week the people and media were rallying around the government. I sense that changing this week. The two week herd immunity experiment they started off with now coming home as the catastrophic balls up it was, before they gave in to WHO demands and fell inline with most the rest of the world
It should only have been considered for two minutes, Cummings got his way for two weeks because the idiot is much powerful in this government
The Sun - Piers Morgan??? That's raised the level of debate.
No? Then I will.
One part of the argument is has the government always been following the science. Well it’s not even an argument anymore, with the two week herd immunity experiment at the start they haven’t been have they.
The second part of the argument is should you follow the science. And this isn’t an argument that can be won, just like faith v reason can never be won. To some people “we can’t know everything, we should listen to the scientists to fill the gaps” is entirely reasonable just what they want to hear. To others, like me, it’s dangerous lazy bollox to blindly place your faith into the hands of science. Science cares not for the conscious awareness we need in our liberal democracy and political decision making.
Science has given us the standard of living we have to day by means of such things as electricity, agriculture, medicine.
The sort of faith you refer to has given us several million dead, suppression of women for centuries, othering of the non faithful and shameful actions against them. Persecution of those that won't submit to a judeo/christian/muslim beard in the skies rules even if they are harming no one.
I will take science thanks
Politicians differing to scientists has blundered open one Pandora’s box after another.
What should it be, politicians telling the scientists the direction of travel, science delivering it, Or the other way around?
You’ve made too many assumptions I’m afraid. The conscious awareness I refer to is not faith based religion, nor incompatible with liberal democracy or capitalism.
Is the problem here the virus, or the fun at our expense the virus is having? Important to know so we can be tough on the right causes of the pain.
Conscious awareness is of the journey we are on to the destination we will end up. That’s what we need.
On topic, parliament should be meeting online, it's not rocket science. We've had too much consensus already - in the last few weeks as the government was creating one of the worst failures in modern British political history the opposition was mostly coming from Rory Stewart and Jeremy Hunt. The next Labour leader should be less awful that the current one, so let's see the opposition oppose.
I have no idea where you are coming from on this but these decisions are made on the recommendations of the medical and scientific advisors to the government
There are too many outsiders across Europe and elsewhere criticising HMG when they should be dealing with their own issues on covid 19
You have a bunch of people dying, your economy is getting wrecked, and you are literally banned from leaving your house.
You cannot tell at this stage which countries have been better than others
The UK does not take to authoritarian edicts and they have to be persuaded
HMG have followed the advice all the way and if they had not they would be in real trouble. If that advice is wrong then so be it, but no politician could justify going against advice on something as big as this
And by the way, Varadkar only caught us up today though his measures are not as strict as HMG
And please tell me which country has avoided a 'bunch' as you call them of deaths and avoided economic armageddon
You are talking nonsense from a long way away
It’s not nonsense.
They were always following the science and the experts? But you just posted “ The UK does not take to authoritarian edicts and they have to be persuaded‘ an admittance it’s culture not solely science. And politics. And the lobby system. And ideology. And Cummings.
Certainly had the sense last week the people and media were rallying around the government. I sense that changing this week. The two week herd immunity experiment they started off with now coming home as the catastrophic balls up it was, before they gave in to WHO demands and fell inline with most the rest of the world
It should only have been considered for two minutes, Cummings got his way for two weeks because the idiot is much powerful in this government
The Sun - Piers Morgan??? That's raised the level of debate.
No? Then I will.
One part of the argument is has the government always been following the science. Well it’s not even an argument anymore, with the two week herd immunity experiment at the start they haven’t been have they.
The second part of the argument is should you follow the science. And this isn’t an argument that can be won, just like faith v reason can never be won. To some people “we can’t know everything, we should listen to the scientists to fill the gaps” is entirely reasonable just what they want to hear. To others, like me, it’s dangerous lazy bollox to blindly place your faith into the hands of science. Science cares not for the conscious awareness we need in our liberal democracy and political decision making.
Science has given us the standard of living we have to day by means of such things as electricity, agriculture, medicine.
The sort of faith you refer to has given us several million dead, suppression of women for centuries, othering of the non faithful and shameful actions against them. Persecution of those that won't submit to a judeo/christian/muslim beard in the skies rules even if they are harming no one.
I will take science thanks
Politicians differing to scientists has blundered open one Pandora’s box after another.
What should it be, politicians telling the scientists the direction of travel, science delivering it, all the other way around?
You’ve made too many assumptions I’m afraid. The conscious awareness I refer to is not faith based religion, nor incompatible with liberal democracy or capitalism.
Is the problem here the virus, or the fun at our expense the virus is having? Important to know so we can be tough on the right causes of the pain.
Conscious awareness is of the journey we are on to the destination we will end up. That’s what we need.
Now you are just spouting gibberish, sadly I am not a gibber and therefore never learnt the language
Maybe the idiot journalists could try and repeat this stuff, rather than worrying about if their freelance mate will get pulled over by the rozzers...A bloody footballer is speaking more sense.
Is Slippery Sunak the Snake beginning to back pedal on last weeks whatever it takes?
To be fair he shouldn’t have stoked last weeks promises because he technically couldn’t achieve them. You can commit large of sums money to the long term, but not short term money growing on trees hand out.
Is Slippery Sunak the Snake some existing nickname he has? Otherwise it seems a bit early in his career to be trying to label him so definitively, just as it would be to crown him the new saviour.
No. Politics moving fast at the moment. How much slipping away from last weeks whatever it takes give away from magic money forest will it take for saviour of the hour to forever be the snake? The answer can only be explaining how he achieves last weeks promises. The eve of his unexpected announcements the government supporters on this blog were explaining how there are limits and he couldn’t cave into opposition demands. Was the lectern budget economics, that protects your share price long term, or a panicky form of we are getting outflanked politics
God, you love yourself
You have a crown of thorns for me like I had to wear last week?
Is Slippery Sunak the Snake beginning to back pedal on last weeks whatever it takes?
To be fair he shouldn’t have stoked last weeks promises because he technically couldn’t achieve them. You can commit large of sums money to the long term, but not short term money growing on trees hand out.
Is Slippery Sunak the Snake some existing nickname he has? Otherwise it seems a bit early in his career to be trying to label him so definitively, just as it would be to crown him the new saviour.
No. Politics moving fast at the moment. How much slipping away from last weeks whatever it takes give away from magic money forest will it take for saviour of the hour to forever be the snake? The answer can only be explaining how he achieves last weeks promises. The eve of his unexpected announcements the government supporters on this blog were explaining how there are limits and he couldn’t cave into opposition demands. Was the lectern budget economics, that protects your share price long term, or a panicky form of we are getting outflanked politics
God, you love yourself
You have a crown of thorns for me like I had to wear last week?
It's a bit short notice, I thought you'd bring your own
Is Slippery Sunak the Snake beginning to back pedal on last weeks whatever it takes?
To be fair he shouldn’t have stoked last weeks promises because he technically couldn’t achieve them. You can commit large of sums money to the long term, but not short term money growing on trees hand out.
Is Slippery Sunak the Snake some existing nickname he has? Otherwise it seems a bit early in his career to be trying to label him so definitively, just as it would be to crown him the new saviour.
No. Politics moving fast at the moment. How much slipping away from last weeks whatever it takes give away from magic money forest will it take for saviour of the hour to forever be the snake? The answer can only be explaining how he achieves last weeks promises. The eve of his unexpected announcements the government supporters on this blog were explaining how there are limits and he couldn’t cave into opposition demands. Was the lectern budget economics, that protects your share price long term, or a panicky form of we are getting outflanked politics
God, you love yourself
You have a crown of thorns for me like I had to wear last week?
hands him a starfish, well I figured you were strange this just proves it
Is Slippery Sunak the Snake beginning to back pedal on last weeks whatever it takes?
To be fair he shouldn’t have stoked last weeks promises because he technically couldn’t achieve them. You can commit large of sums money to the long term, but not short term money growing on trees hand out.
Is Slippery Sunak the Snake some existing nickname he has? Otherwise it seems a bit early in his career to be trying to label him so definitively, just as it would be to crown him the new saviour.
No. Politics moving fast at the moment. How much slipping away from last weeks whatever it takes give away from magic money forest will it take for saviour of the hour to forever be the snake? The answer can only be explaining how he achieves last weeks promises. The eve of his unexpected announcements the government supporters on this blog were explaining how there are limits and he couldn’t cave into opposition demands. Was the lectern budget economics, that protects your share price long term, or a panicky form of we are getting outflanked politics
God, you love yourself
You have a crown of thorns for me like I had to wear last week?
hands him a starfish, well I figured you were strange this just proves it
Is Slippery Sunak the Snake beginning to back pedal on last weeks whatever it takes?
To be fair he shouldn’t have stoked last weeks promises because he technically couldn’t achieve them. You can commit large of sums money to the long term, but not short term money growing on trees hand out.
Is Slippery Sunak the Snake some existing nickname he has? Otherwise it seems a bit early in his career to be trying to label him so definitively, just as it would be to crown him the new saviour.
No. Politics moving fast at the moment. How much slipping away from last weeks whatever it takes give away from magic money forest will it take for saviour of the hour to forever be the snake? The answer can only be explaining how he achieves last weeks promises. The eve of his unexpected announcements the government supporters on this blog were explaining how there are limits and he couldn’t cave into opposition demands. Was the lectern budget economics, that protects your share price long term, or a panicky form of we are getting outflanked politics
God, you love yourself
You have a crown of thorns for me like I had to wear last week?
hands him a starfish, well I figured you were strange this just proves it
"strange" doesn't do it for me.
Well I don't like to be ruder to people who wear starfish, no telling how they might react
Is Slippery Sunak the Snake beginning to back pedal on last weeks whatever it takes?
To be fair he shouldn’t have stoked last weeks promises because he technically couldn’t achieve them. You can commit large of sums money to the long term, but not short term money growing on trees hand out.
Is Slippery Sunak the Snake some existing nickname he has? Otherwise it seems a bit early in his career to be trying to label him so definitively, just as it would be to crown him the new saviour.
No. Politics moving fast at the moment. How much slipping away from last weeks whatever it takes give away from magic money forest will it take for saviour of the hour to forever be the snake? The answer can only be explaining how he achieves last weeks promises. The eve of his unexpected announcements the government supporters on this blog were explaining how there are limits and he couldn’t cave into opposition demands. Was the lectern budget economics, that protects your share price long term, or a panicky form of we are getting outflanked politics
There was only one tory on here explaining how it was limited and that was HYUFD
So for the record, are you saying whatever it takes is doable, or not doable.
Is Slippery Sunak the Snake beginning to back pedal on last weeks whatever it takes?
To be fair he shouldn’t have stoked last weeks promises because he technically couldn’t achieve them. You can commit large of sums money to the long term, but not short term money growing on trees hand out.
Is Slippery Sunak the Snake some existing nickname he has? Otherwise it seems a bit early in his career to be trying to label him so definitively, just as it would be to crown him the new saviour.
No. Politics moving fast at the moment. How much slipping away from last weeks whatever it takes give away from magic money forest will it take for saviour of the hour to forever be the snake? The answer can only be explaining how he achieves last weeks promises. The eve of his unexpected announcements the government supporters on this blog were explaining how there are limits and he couldn’t cave into opposition demands. Was the lectern budget economics, that protects your share price long term, or a panicky form of we are getting outflanked politics
There was only one tory on here explaining how it was limited and that was HYUFD
So for the record, are you saying whatever it takes is doable, or not doable.
One part of the argument is has the government always been following the science. Well it’s not even an argument anymore, with the two week herd immunity experiment at the start they haven’t been have they.
The second part of the argument is should you follow the science. And this isn’t an argument that can be won, just like faith v reason can never be won. To some people “we can’t know everything, we should listen to the scientists to fill the gaps” is entirely reasonable just what they want to hear. To others, like me, it’s dangerous lazy bollox to blindly place your faith into the hands of science. Science cares not for the conscious awareness we need in our liberal democracy and political decision making.
Science has given us the standard of living we have to day by means of such things as electricity, agriculture, medicine.
The sort of faith you refer to has given us several million dead, suppression of women for centuries, othering of the non faithful and shameful actions against them. Persecution of those that won't submit to a judeo/christian/muslim beard in the skies rules even if they are harming no one.
I will take science thanks
As a scientist who is not religious, I ask you to please stop spouting this hatred, especially at a time like this.
It is not hatred. Mr Pagan has merely summarised the period from 1 AD up to about 1950
One part of the argument is has the government always been following the science. Well it’s not even an argument anymore, with the two week herd immunity experiment at the start they haven’t been have they.
The second part of the argument is should you follow the science. And this isn’t an argument that can be won, just like faith v reason can never be won. To some people “we can’t know everything, we should listen to the scientists to fill the gaps” is entirely reasonable just what they want to hear. To others, like me, it’s dangerous lazy bollox to blindly place your faith into the hands of science. Science cares not for the conscious awareness we need in our liberal democracy and political decision making.
Science has given us the standard of living we have to day by means of such things as electricity, agriculture, medicine.
The sort of faith you refer to has given us several million dead, suppression of women for centuries, othering of the non faithful and shameful actions against them. Persecution of those that won't submit to a judeo/christian/muslim beard in the skies rules even if they are harming no one.
I will take science thanks
As a scientist who is not religious, I ask you to please stop spouting this hatred, especially at a time like this.
It is not hatred. Mr Pagan has merely summarised the period from 1 AD up to about 1950
One part of the argument is has the government always been following the science. Well it’s not even an argument anymore, with the two week herd immunity experiment at the start they haven’t been have they.
The second part of the argument is should you follow the science. And this isn’t an argument that can be won, just like faith v reason can never be won. To some people “we can’t know everything, we should listen to the scientists to fill the gaps” is entirely reasonable just what they want to hear. To others, like me, it’s dangerous lazy bollox to blindly place your faith into the hands of science. Science cares not for the conscious awareness we need in our liberal democracy and political decision making.
Science has given us the standard of living we have to day by means of such things as electricity, agriculture, medicine.
The sort of faith you refer to has given us several million dead, suppression of women for centuries, othering of the non faithful and shameful actions against them. Persecution of those that won't submit to a judeo/christian/muslim beard in the skies rules even if they are harming no one.
I will take science thanks
As a scientist who is not religious, I ask you to please stop spouting this hatred, especially at a time like this.
It is not hatred. Mr Pagan has merely summarised the period from 1 AD up to about 1950
Thank you for saying so
I will admit that as a woman, I have a rather jaded view of religions that view my "natural role" as a chattel to a husband or father. And as for the Middle Eastern view that a woman counts 1/4 as much as a man....
One part of the argument is has the government always been following the science. Well it’s not even an argument anymore, with the two week herd immunity experiment at the start they haven’t been have they.
The second part of the argument is should you follow the science. And this isn’t an argument that can be won, just like faith v reason can never be won. To some people “we can’t know everything, we should listen to the scientists to fill the gaps” is entirely reasonable just what they want to hear. To others, like me, it’s dangerous lazy bollox to blindly place your faith into the hands of science. Science cares not for the conscious awareness we need in our liberal democracy and political decision making.
Science has given us the standard of living we have to day by means of such things as electricity, agriculture, medicine.
The sort of faith you refer to has given us several million dead, suppression of women for centuries, othering of the non faithful and shameful actions against them. Persecution of those that won't submit to a judeo/christian/muslim beard in the skies rules even if they are harming no one.
I will take science thanks
As a scientist who is not religious, I ask you to please stop spouting this hatred, especially at a time like this.
It is not hatred. Mr Pagan has merely summarised the period from 1 AD up to about 1950
Thank you for saying so
I will admit that as a woman, I have a rather jaded view of religions that view my "natural role" as a chattel to a husband or father. And as for the Middle Eastern view that a woman counts 1/4 as much as a man....
Well as my user name implies I am however one with a faith, the difference as I see it is I expect no one to comply with the tenets of mine, nor do I see it as evil if they don't. I also don't bring it into discussions like this.
"The coronavirus could have infected as much as half of the the UK’s population, according to researchers at the University of Oxford. The new model from Oxford University suggests the virus was circulating in the UK by mid-January, around two weeks before the first reported case and a month before the first reported death. And the research suggested that less than one thousand of with Covid-19 became ill enough to need treatment in hospital, with the vast majority developing mild symptoms or none at all. This means it could have had enough time to have spread widely, with many people in the country acquiring immunity."
"The coronavirus could have infected as much as half of the the UK’s population, according to researchers at the University of Oxford. The new model from Oxford University suggests the virus was circulating in the UK by mid-January, around two weeks before the first reported case and a month before the first reported death. And the research suggested that less than one thousand of with Covid-19 became ill enough to need treatment in hospital, with the vast majority developing mild symptoms or none at all. This means it could have had enough time to have spread widely, with many people in the country acquiring immunity."
(CNN) At least one person in Kentucky is infected after taking part at a "coronavirus party" with a group of young adults, Gov. Andy Beshear said Tuesday.
The partygoers intentionally got together "thinking they were invincible" and purposely defying state guidance to practice social distancing, Bashear said.
Unusually, I find myself in disagreement with a David Herdson piece. Of all the things that people are worried about, the lack of parliamentary scrutiny is not one of them (even if it should be).
Did I not read on here that the government had reduced the time for which the new powers would be in place to six months? A lot of negotiation can go on behind the scenes without formally inviting the opposition into government. And actually, I think it would be a bigger risk for Starmer.
This is the kind of action I'm talking about, but with Singapore-style compulsion, rather than Japan/SK-style recommendation. They're closing bars, shutting down large gatherings, and requiring restaurants to reduce density. You stop the 10% of stuff that gives you maybe 90% of the effect.
If you do things like this before cases get out of hand, that seems to be effective at avoiding the need to shut everything down. In Europe and the US, many countries including Britain did too little too late, and that's why you're no longer allowed to leave your house.
Most likely this is the kind of thing Britain will ultimately be doing when it emerges from the lockdown.
This site is overloaded with fucking experts.
Or alternatively, people with a modicum of common sense who have watched what seems to have worked elsewhere, and learned.
This is the kind of action I'm talking about, but with Singapore-style compulsion, rather than Japan/SK-style recommendation. They're closing bars, shutting down large gatherings, and requiring restaurants to reduce density. You stop the 10% of stuff that gives you maybe 90% of the effect.
If you do things like this before cases get out of hand, that seems to be effective at avoiding the need to shut everything down. In Europe and the US, many countries including Britain did too little too late, and that's why you're no longer allowed to leave your house.
Most likely this is the kind of thing Britain will ultimately be doing when it emerges from the lockdown.
This site is overloaded with fucking experts.
Or alternatively, people with a modicum of common sense who have watched what seems to have worked elsewhere, and learned.
So a bit of google here and there supersedes the wotk of government scientists who have clearly not bothered to look at any data and should bow down to EiT.
ah well matt damon then as he was meant to be immune and that is asking for being struck down
A couple of weeks ago, I considered Theresa May as a regular churchgoer who is involved in many consituency events but it is too late now as she is unlikely to be infected by the Reverend Webex. Same for Jacob Rees-Mogg.
Other religious MPs may be available but they are the only ones I could think of in the two minutes or so available.
This is the kind of action I'm talking about, but with Singapore-style compulsion, rather than Japan/SK-style recommendation. They're closing bars, shutting down large gatherings, and requiring restaurants to reduce density. You stop the 10% of stuff that gives you maybe 90% of the effect.
If you do things like this before cases get out of hand, that seems to be effective at avoiding the need to shut everything down. In Europe and the US, many countries including Britain did too little too late, and that's why you're no longer allowed to leave your house.
Most likely this is the kind of thing Britain will ultimately be doing when it emerges from the lockdown.
This site is overloaded with fucking experts.
Or alternatively, people with a modicum of common sense who have watched what seems to have worked elsewhere, and learned.
So a bit of google here and there supersedes the wotk of government scientists who have clearly not bothered to look at any data and should bow down to EiT.
As he has pointed out before, many of the Asian nations had pandemic preparation plans based on the experience of SARS, and have managed to keep the numbers down (or in the case of Korea get on top of them) in a way we haven’t. Ours was based on flu.
I don’t think I’ve seen any of our ‘government scientists’ argue that Taiwan, Singapore and South Korea have handled things badly.
Should we simply ignore what has obviously happened ?
This is the kind of action I'm talking about, but with Singapore-style compulsion, rather than Japan/SK-style recommendation. They're closing bars, shutting down large gatherings, and requiring restaurants to reduce density. You stop the 10% of stuff that gives you maybe 90% of the effect.
If you do things like this before cases get out of hand, that seems to be effective at avoiding the need to shut everything down. In Europe and the US, many countries including Britain did too little too late, and that's why you're no longer allowed to leave your house.
Most likely this is the kind of thing Britain will ultimately be doing when it emerges from the lockdown.
This site is overloaded with fucking experts.
Or alternatively, people with a modicum of common sense who have watched what seems to have worked elsewhere, and learned.
So a bit of google here and there supersedes the wotk of government scientists who have clearly not bothered to look at any data and should bow down to EiT.
As he has pointed out before, many of the Asian nations had pandemic preparation plans based on the experience of SARS, and have managed to keep the numbers down (or in the case of Korea get on top of them) in a way we haven’t. Ours was based on flu.
I don’t think I’ve seen any of our ‘government scientists’ argue that Taiwan, Singapore and South Korea have handled things badly.
Should we simply ignore what has obviously happened ?
We can only hope we also learn serious lessons from this.
Comments
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSCW7Ou61Ig
Night all - stay safe.
https://twitter.com/EEID_oxford/status/1242528016485490689
That's a big pointer that it was all a load of bollocks.
The UK does not take to authoritarian edicts and they have to be persuaded
HMG have followed the advice all the way and if they had not they would be in real trouble. If that advice is wrong then so be it, but no politician could justify going against advice on something as big as this
And by the way, Varadkar only caught us up today though his measures are not as strict as HMG
And please tell me which country has avoided a 'bunch' as you call them of deaths and avoided economic armageddon
You are talking nonsense from a long way away
I certainly think that the author who gave an interview to the FT was going well beyond the science. I do not enjoy scientists who try to crowbar publicity for themselves, even when it's not in such a serious public health context.
I don't even think that they can "argue for it (p) to be small". There's no evidence for that, that I could find in their paper.
--AS
And of course the massive evangelical vote in US went for Trump because he would deliver the end of times and revelation.
Of these, only Singapore is authoritarian, other successes include robust democracies, some of them much less consensual than the UK.
In Japan some organizations are doing events in defiance of the government recommendation, the government has no legal authority to stop them, and the governor of that jurisdiction was reduced to going over there and asking them to stop, which they didn't.
The residents of Hong Kong spent the last 6 months fighting pitched battles with their government.
This is one of the big failures of English-language reporting: They talk about what's happening in Asia, but mostly through the prism of China, which is fascinatingly epic and dystopian, rather than the democracies that achieved the same goals without authoritarianism. The difference with the western countries that failed isn't that they're authoritarian, it's that they'd previously been knocked on their arses by SARS (or in Japan's case various cruise ship fails), while the British were still trying to tackle the new threat like it was a 20th Century flu pandemic.
I think you have to keep redoing it until you pass :-)
https://www.propublica.org/article/doctors-are-hoarding-unproven-coronavirus-medicine-by-writing-prescriptions-for-themselves-and-their-families
They were always following the science and the experts? But you just posted “ The UK does not take to authoritarian edicts and they have to be persuaded‘ an admittance it’s culture not solely science. And politics. And the lobby system. And ideology. And Cummings.
Certainly had the sense last week the people and media were rallying around the government. I sense that changing this week. The two week herd immunity experiment they started off with now coming home as the catastrophic balls up it was, before they gave in to WHO demands and fell inline with most the rest of the world
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11233168/piers-morgan-matt-hancock-gmb-coronavirus/
It should only have been considered for two minutes, Cummings got his way for two weeks because the idiot is much powerful in this government
I don't see a point in a GONU which would just have unnecessary disruption, but an immediate invitation to Starmer (if he wins) to attend COBR for the duration of this epidemic should be sent.
https://twitter.com/nytpolitics/status/1242562132220227587
Is Slippery Sunak the Snake beginning to back pedal on last weeks whatever it takes?
To be fair he shouldn’t have stoked last weeks promises because he technically couldn’t achieve them. You can commit large of sums money to the long term, but not short term money growing on trees hand out.
The man is actively damaging any talk of a quick recovery with that talk.
Even the most optimistic people think June, and that’s with public support and obedience.
One part of the argument is has the government always been following the science. Well it’s not even an argument anymore, with the two week herd immunity experiment at the start they haven’t been have they.
The second part of the argument is should you follow the science. And this isn’t an argument that can be won, just like faith v reason can never be won. To some people “we can’t know everything, we should listen to the scientists to fill the gaps” is entirely reasonable just what they want to hear. To others, like me, it’s dangerous lazy bollox to blindly place your faith into the hands of science. Science cares not for the conscious awareness we need in our liberal democracy and political decision making.
The sort of faith you refer to has given us several million dead, suppression of women for centuries, othering of the non faithful and shameful actions against them. Persecution of those that won't submit to a judeo/christian/muslim beard in the skies rules even if they are harming no one.
I will take science thanks
This is the kind of action I'm talking about, but with Singapore-style compulsion, rather than Japan/SK-style recommendation. They're closing bars, shutting down large gatherings, and requiring restaurants to reduce density. You stop the 10% of stuff that gives you maybe 90% of the effect.
If you do things like this before cases get out of hand, that seems to be effective at avoiding the need to shut everything down. In Europe and the US, many countries including Britain did too little too late, and that's why you're no longer allowed to leave your house.
Most likely this is the kind of thing Britain will ultimately be doing when it emerges from the lockdown.
https://twitter.com/youngy18/status/1242531398826811393?s=20
And various tips he gives..
https://twitter.com/youngy18/status/1242531399992819723?s=20
https://twitter.com/youngy18/status/1242531405445451776?s=20
https://twitter.com/youngy18/status/1242531408075251712?s=20
https://twitter.com/youngy18/status/1242531412252770307?s=20
What should it be, politicians telling the scientists the direction of travel, science delivering it, Or the other way around?
You’ve made too many assumptions I’m afraid. The conscious awareness I refer to is not faith based religion, nor incompatible with liberal democracy or capitalism.
Is the problem here the virus, or the fun at our expense the virus is having? Important to know so we can be tough on the right causes of the pain.
Conscious awareness is of the journey we are on to the destination we will end up. That’s what we need.
The guy who was picked in the name of electability.
https://twitter.com/johnskelton/status/1242239687143690242?s=21
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-half-uk-population-oxford-university-study-finds-a4396721.html
"The coronavirus could have infected as much as half of the the UK’s population, according to researchers at the University of Oxford.
The new model from Oxford University suggests the virus was circulating in the UK by mid-January, around two weeks before the first reported case and a month before the first reported death.
And the research suggested that less than one thousand of with Covid-19 became ill enough to need treatment in hospital, with the vast majority developing mild symptoms or none at all.
This means it could have had enough time to have spread widely, with many people in the country acquiring immunity."
https://twitter.com/EEID_oxford/status/1242528016485490689?s=19
The partygoers intentionally got together "thinking they were invincible" and purposely defying state guidance to practice social distancing, Bashear said.
Did I not read on here that the government had reduced the time for which the new powers would be in place to six months? A lot of negotiation can go on behind the scenes without formally inviting the opposition into government. And actually, I think it would be a bigger risk for Starmer.
Other religious MPs may be available but they are the only ones I could think of in the two minutes or so available.
Ours was based on flu.
I don’t think I’ve seen any of our ‘government scientists’ argue that Taiwan, Singapore and South Korea have handled things badly.
Should we simply ignore what has obviously happened ?