Morning Gideon, how are the family this morning? Hope they are no worse.
Thanks for asking. My wife is in bed and I'm just trying to keep the household going. She couldn't sleep last night as she said she was struggling to breathe. I slept on a camping bed in the other room.
Using the spo2 measure that Foxy recommended and her oxygen saturation is fine so. It's good to have one for those who haven't.
Boys seem ok just trashing my house.
Take care. If saturation goes below 93%, or respiratory rate above 30 per minute, usually coupled with a rising heart rate, then needs professional assessment.
Any chance of a refresher regarding the spo2 measure that Gideon refers to?
And is there a recommended brand/device? Had a quick look on Amazon and there is a large price range; I am wary of getting a cheap one
Pulse oximeters were designed using off the shelf components: one red led and one infra-red (the ones used in remote controls) plus sensors. They will need a chip to compare the results, but they are probably standard too. In other words, it shouldn’t cost very much to make a perfectly serviceable one. I’m not saying there aren’t dodgy ones out there, but a working one shouldn’t have to be expensive.
Mine was the ATMOKO one off Amazon for £17. It appears to work fine, assuming my reading really is at 93 at bedtime.
Have you tried taking several deep breaths and seeing if the percentage goes up?
My cheapo one does. The only oddity is it produces a higher pulse rate than my blood pressure monitor.
I can’t get the thing to stay on my tongue, it keeps slipping off.
Mines pulse rate is reasonably close to my Omron blood pressure unit which is suppoedly quality uit, Ana Wiz ltd , about 20 quid on Amazon. Bought the same thermometer as they use in hospitals to ensure reasonably accurate.
Is anyone surprised that herd immunity had Cummings’ fingers all over it?
When a few of us pointed out that the strategy rested on assumptions which reporting from Korea, Japan et al already called into question, we were told to pipe down by the Tory fan-club.
HYUFD was at that stage still recommending broth.
They're pursuing herd immunity in the Netherlands.
Cummings' approach is perfectly intelligent if all you care about are utilitarian ends: resolving the crisis quickly, minimizing economic damage, improving the national dependency ratio and lowering long-term pension and health costs. He may even be proved right eventually if the world fails to get a handle on the crisis and it ends up spreading uncontrollably with no effective vaccine in sight.
It's utterly inhumane, but not unintelligent.
No, it's fucking stupid. Five minutes with a calculator shows that the approach would render the NHS totally non functional under the weight of cases.
Orders of magnitude more people would die. The economy would totally collapse under the weight of the sick.
It is not utilitarian, it's the idea of a self confident moron.
Of course many more people would die - that's the inhumane part I was talking about! But would the economy itself necessarily collapse? The NHS would effectively suffer a heart attack for 3 months, and then, horrific as it is, it would all be over.
Just to make it crystal clear, I'm not advocating this approach - I love my oldies too much, and am pretty risk-averse myself.
It is not about old people dying! It is about the health service staff themselves dying. The extra deaths during child birth. The life saving but routine surgeries either cancelled or turned into a deadly infection lottery.
When we are talking about complete collapse of the health service we don't mean "can't get an appointment with a GP for a bit " we mean "takes years to recover due to all the dead doctors".
I think a hope for the UK moving forward is that we probably had a higher rate of self-imposed containment than a lot of other countries - Spain, Italy, and above all the US, for example - before official measures kicked in. We’ve focused on those who did not change their routines, but a shedload of people did.
Yes. Also, we have a different demographic profile and cultural habits to Italy.
Our population isn't as elderly. We don't go to Catholic mass en-masse. Brits do a bit less hugging and double-kissing in everyday life as a greeting. We live more in houses than flats and are slightly less communitarian.
The one exception to this may be the metropolitan cities, parricularly London, where cultural habits are very mixed and there are millions living in close proximity - a large number of which aren't changing their habits very much.
I am just reflecting back to our last visit to a pub, for dinner a week ago on Friday, seems like a lifetime away now...
Small pub, absolutely rammed with half-pissed people celebrating the start of the weekend. If anybody in that pub had C-19 we all have now. (No signs so far and only a couple of recorded cases here in Dorset, so I suspect we are ok for the time being.)
Anyway, it's made me feel I am not sure the UK has any particular inherent advantage re social distancing - our drinking culture will tell against us.
And in so doing allegedly (it’s not totally clear*) misrepresented the Govt’s strategy. Still no surprise to have it confirmed that he was the “senior downing st source” who was responsible for the phrase “herd immunity” getting out there.
*i say that because although there was much in the news about a changed approach in response to the Imperial college study, I do wonder if that study was actually used an a convenient excuse to make it look like the Govt had changed strategy, when what has actually happened is broadly in line with what was intended all along. They absolutely had to get the perception that they were pursuing herd immunity out of the public consciousness.
They were following herd immunity , their only concern at start was economic, public outrage caused them to change and the great modelling change was used as good excuse to get out of jail.
One thing does not quite add up about this Cummings story. He has been ill recently and his personal vulnerability/mortality will not be far from his mind.
Perhaps there was more to the title of the last thread than met the eye?
I braved the dentist on Thursday to have a temporary filling put in... worried that I shouldn’t have risked it ever since... and it fell out this morning while I was eating my toast!
Finished Lancaster and York, by Alison Weir, yesterday. Good book for anyone wanting a single volume to cover the Wars of the Roses.
Agree. Her book on Katherine Swynford, one of the great women of English history and ancestor of almost everybody, including everyone royal in Europe and five American presidents, is also a top read.
Fun trivia fact: Katherine Swynford built the moat that got Douglas Hogg into trouble...
I think a hope for the UK moving forward is that we probably had a higher rate of self-imposed containment than a lot of other countries - Spain, Italy, and above all the US, for example - before official measures kicked in. We’ve focused on those who did not change their routines, but a shedload of people did.
Yes. Also, we have a different demographic profile and cultural habits to Italy.
Our population isn't as elderly. We don't go to Catholic mass en-masse. Brits do a bit less hugging and double-kissing in everyday life as a greeting. We live more in houses than flats and are slightly less communitarian.
The one exception to this may be the metropolitan cities, parricularly London, where cultural habits are very mixed and there are millions living in close proximity - a large number of which aren't changing their habits very much.
To be honest looking at the stats I'm not sure the UK is in a good place witout further and rapid considerable tightening. Hope I'm wrong but..
I am also worried about the UK and hope we will have put these recent measures in place just in time, Having said that, I agree with @Casino_Royale that a lot of at risk groups have already begun to distance much more than had happened in Italy at the equivalent stage (e.g., I know elderly people who have been isolating for at least a couple of weeks already). In addition, a factor that might benefit us is that there is less of a tendency for whole families (across age groups) to live together here than in Italy (although this is anecdotal as I'm not sure where I'd find hard data on this). Finally, as @nichomar pointed out yesterday, the lockdown in Italy has been a bit odd (e.g., construction companies and others allowed to keep open!).
One interesting set of countries to keep an eye on is the Scandinavian bloc. In many ways they are (outside London, which is quite distinct in many ways from the rest of the UK) quite similar to us. It's early, but the numbers there will be worth looking at I think.
I think a hope for the UK moving forward is that we probably had a higher rate of self-imposed containment than a lot of other countries - Spain, Italy, and above all the US, for example - before official measures kicked in. We’ve focused on those who did not change their routines, but a shedload of people did.
Yes. Also, we have a different demographic profile and cultural habits to Italy.
Our population isn't as elderly. We don't go to Catholic mass en-masse. Brits do a bit less hugging and double-kissing in everyday life as a greeting. We live more in houses than flats and are slightly less communitarian.
The one exception to this may be the metropolitan cities, parricularly London, where cultural habits are very mixed and there are millions living in close proximity - a large number of which aren't changing their habits very much.
If anybody in that pub had C-19 we all have now.
Unlikely, given what we know about the relatively low chance of transmission from a single contact
Finished Lancaster and York, by Alison Weir, yesterday. Good book for anyone wanting a single volume to cover the Wars of the Roses.
With the very important caveat that it finishes in 1471. Arguably that was the moment when the dynastic struggle ended, but the instability it had caused lasted well into the 1490s and as late as 1541 Henry VIII feared there was a Yorkist attempt to supplant him.
I've always seen the War of the Roses as a family squabble that got out of hand
I braved the dentist on Thursday to have a temporary filling put in... worried that I shouldn’t have risked it ever since... and it fell out this morning while I was eating my toast!
Is anyone surprised that herd immunity had Cummings’ fingers all over it?
When a few of us pointed out that the strategy rested on assumptions which reporting from Korea, Japan et al already called into question, we were told to pipe down by the Tory fan-club.
HYUFD was at that stage still recommending broth.
They're pursuing herd immunity in the Netherlands.
I don't think so:
"Schools and daycare centres are to be closed up to and including April 6 Schools and daycare centres will provide supervision for the children of healthcare, public transport and emergency service workers, so they can continue to work. Teachers will organise distance learning for children who are at home, with priority for children who are due to take final exams this year.
Cafes and restaurants, but not hotels, are to close from Sunday March 15 at 6pm up to and including April 6
Sports clubs, fitness centres and gyms to close up to and including April 6
Sex clubs and cannabis cafes (coffee shops) will also close from March 15 at 6pm up to and including Monday April 6.
Where possible, people should keep 1.5 metres apart. This includes when shopping.
After the invasion of the Highlands, Snowdonia, the lake district, beaches and beauty spots by numerous selfish morons I believe HMG has to mandate staying at home and also immediate loss of licence of any pub or restaurant that remains open
I also want to see mandatory rationing of essential food and also home deliveries to those isolated from everyone, including family, receiving the basics of milk, bread, fruit and disinfectants
And on the economy I want to see help for the self employed which I understand is on the way
I think a hope for the UK moving forward is that we probably had a higher rate of self-imposed containment than a lot of other countries - Spain, Italy, and above all the US, for example - before official measures kicked in. We’ve focused on those who did not change their routines, but a shedload of people did.
Yes. Also, we have a different demographic profile and cultural habits to Italy.
Our population isn't as elderly. We don't go to Catholic mass en-masse. Brits do a bit less hugging and double-kissing in everyday life as a greeting. We live more in houses than flats and are slightly less communitarian.
The one exception to this may be the metropolitan cities, parricularly London, where cultural habits are very mixed and there are millions living in close proximity - a large number of which aren't changing their habits very much.
We do go to mosques en masse, especially on Fridays. And supermarkets.
It will be interesting to discover how this is really spreading so we can see which measures are effective and which can be abandoned as not necessary. Is there evidence of rapid spread through opera-goers or tube travellers (and the London boroughs with high numbers sort of follow the Bakerloo line) or Muslims or parents of schoolchildren?
Large-scale meetings in air-conditioned rooms (e.g., conferences or large well-attended religious services) have been real sources of transmission (e.g., South Korea / the outbreak in Boston). In time it will also be interesting to examine whether population density and / or cities with underground services have higher rates.
Morning Gideon, how are the family this morning? Hope they are no worse.
Thanks for asking. My wife is in bed and I'm just trying to keep the household going. She couldn't sleep last night as she said she was struggling to breathe. I slept on a camping bed in the other room.
Using the spo2 measure that Foxy recommended and her oxygen saturation is fine so. It's good to have one for those who haven't.
Boys seem ok just trashing my house.
Take care. If saturation goes below 93%, or respiratory rate above 30 per minute, usually coupled with a rising heart rate, then needs professional assessment.
Any chance of a refresher regarding the spo2 measure that Gideon refers to?
And is there a recommended brand/device? Had a quick look on Amazon and there is a large price range; I am wary of getting a cheap one
Bought a cheap one on Amazon - seems to work fine - Foxy said they were all much of a muchness. The other things he recommended were a peak flow meter (for lung capacity- take a baseline when you're well) - again, bought a cheap one and thermometer.
Same here. Not used the spo2 gadget; temperature normal; peak flow 300 for the last week or two but this morning up to nearly 400 so there is an outside chance I've been ill the past few days without noticing.
I think a hope for the UK moving forward is that we probably had a higher rate of self-imposed containment than a lot of other countries - Spain, Italy, and above all the US, for example - before official measures kicked in. We’ve focused on those who did not change their routines, but a shedload of people did.
Yes. Also, we have a different demographic profile and cultural habits to Italy.
Our population isn't as elderly. We don't go to Catholic mass en-masse. Brits do a bit less hugging and double-kissing in everyday life as a greeting. We live more in houses than flats and are slightly less communitarian.
The one exception to this may be the metropolitan cities, parricularly London, where cultural habits are very mixed and there are millions living in close proximity - a large number of which aren't changing their habits very much.
If anybody in that pub had C-19 we all have now.
Unlikely, given what we know about the relatively low chance of transmission from a single contact
Good point. Slap on wrist for exaggeration on my part. A good number would have probably caught it though.
I braved the dentist on Thursday to have a temporary filling put in... worried that I shouldn’t have risked it ever since... and it fell out this morning while I was eating my toast!
Finished Lancaster and York, by Alison Weir, yesterday. Good book for anyone wanting a single volume to cover the Wars of the Roses.
With the very important caveat that it finishes in 1471. Arguably that was the moment when the dynastic struggle ended, but the instability it had caused lasted well into the 1490s and as late as 1541 Henry VIII feared there was a Yorkist attempt to supplant him.
I've always seen the War of the Roses as a family squabble that got out of hand
Well, I suppose that's one way of looking at the Battle of Towton...
I braved the dentist on Thursday to have a temporary filling put in... worried that I shouldn’t have risked it ever since... and it fell out this morning while I was eating my toast!
How could you eat toast with one bollock in a beer bottle
How do the supermarkets square these dedicated opening time slots for the elderly with official policy that such people shouldn't be going shopping at all?
Finished Lancaster and York, by Alison Weir, yesterday. Good book for anyone wanting a single volume to cover the Wars of the Roses.
With the very important caveat that it finishes in 1471. Arguably that was the moment when the dynastic struggle ended, but the instability it had caused lasted well into the 1490s and as late as 1541 Henry VIII feared there was a Yorkist attempt to supplant him.
I've always seen the War of the Roses as a family squabble that got out of hand
I braved the dentist on Thursday to have a temporary filling put in... worried that I shouldn’t have risked it ever since... and it fell out this morning while I was eating my toast!
Morning Gideon, how are the family this morning? Hope they are no worse.
Thanks for asking. My wife is in bed and I'm just trying to keep the household going. She couldn't sleep last night as she said she was struggling to breathe. I slept on a camping bed in the other room.
Using the spo2 measure that Foxy recommended and her oxygen saturation is fine so. It's good to have one for those who haven't.
Boys seem ok just trashing my house.
Take care. If saturation goes below 93%, or respiratory rate above 30 per minute, usually coupled with a rising heart rate, then needs professional assessment.
Any chance of a refresher regarding the spo2 measure that Gideon refers to?
And is there a recommended brand/device? Had a quick look on Amazon and there is a large price range; I am wary of getting a cheap one
Bought a cheap one on Amazon - seems to work fine - Foxy said they were all much of a muchness. The other things he recommended were a peak flow meter (for lung capacity- take a baseline when you're well) - again, bought a cheap one and thermometer.
Same here. Not used the spo2 gadget; temperature normal; peak flow 300 for the last week or two but this morning up to nearly 400 so there is an outside chance I've been ill the past few days without noticing.
what is a decent peak flow , mine was 550 - 600
My benchmark is 650
But there is a medical reason why it might be above average
After the invasion of the Highlands, Snowdonia, the lake district, beaches and beauty spots by numerous selfish morons I believe HMG has to mandate staying at home and also immediate loss of licence of any pub or restaurant that remains open
I also want to see mandatory rationing of essential food and also home deliveries to those isolated from everyone, including family, receiving the basics of milk, bread, fruit and disinfectants
And on the economy I want to see help for the self employed which I understand is on the way
I want to see these too, but most of all, I want to see clear communications. As others have suggested, the BBC needs to be used to advertise simple messaging:
Wash your hands Stay at home Save the NHS Protect the country.
Morning Gideon, how are the family this morning? Hope they are no worse.
Thanks for asking. My wife is in bed and I'm just trying to keep the household going. She couldn't sleep last night as she said she was struggling to breathe. I slept on a camping bed in the other room.
Using the spo2 measure that Foxy recommended and her oxygen saturation is fine so. It's good to have one for those who haven't.
Boys seem ok just trashing my house.
Take care. If saturation goes below 93%, or respiratory rate above 30 per minute, usually coupled with a rising heart rate, then needs professional assessment.
Any chance of a refresher regarding the spo2 measure that Gideon refers to?
And is there a recommended brand/device? Had a quick look on Amazon and there is a large price range; I am wary of getting a cheap one
Pulse oximeters were designed using off the shelf components: one red led and one infra-red (the ones used in remote controls) plus sensors. They will need a chip to compare the results, but they are probably standard too. In other words, it shouldn’t cost very much to make a perfectly serviceable one. I’m not saying there aren’t dodgy ones out there, but a working one shouldn’t have to be expensive.
Samsung phones have a heart rate measurement and also give oxygen saturation. It looks like some form of optical sensor. I wonder if it's the same thing and how accurate it is.
How do the supermarkets square these dedicated opening time slots for the elderly with official policy that such people shouldn't be going shopping at all?
Can't answer that one Ian but on a different topic: what's your lastest thinking on how low the DJ index will go, and how long it will take to bottom out?
I had no idea the 2009 flu epidemic infected 11-21% of the global population at the time, 700 million to 1.4 billion people. Fatalities were estimated to be up to 575,000.
Morning Gideon, how are the family this morning? Hope they are no worse.
Thanks for asking. My wife is in bed and I'm just trying to keep the household going. She couldn't sleep last night as she said she was struggling to breathe. I slept on a camping bed in the other room.
Using the spo2 measure that Foxy recommended and her oxygen saturation is fine so. It's good to have one for those who haven't.
Boys seem ok just trashing my house.
Best wishes to you both, Mr W. And to those others of our community who ill. How is Mr Charles Snr this morning?
After the invasion of the Highlands, Snowdonia, the lake district, beaches and beauty spots by numerous selfish morons I believe HMG has to mandate staying at home and also immediate loss of licence of any pub or restaurant that remains open
I also want to see mandatory rationing of essential food and also home deliveries to those isolated from everyone, including family, receiving the basics of milk, bread, fruit and disinfectants
And on the economy I want to see help for the self employed which I understand is on the way
I want to see these too, but most of all, I want to see clear communications. As others have suggested, the BBC needs to be used to advertise simple messaging:
Wash your hands Stay at home Save the NHS Protect the country.
I would agree.
The BBC now need to be on a wartime footing with 24/7 public broadcasting
Best wishes to PBers suffering from the virus, with relatives suffering; and to those directly or or indirectly caught up on the front line (medical care).
After the invasion of the Highlands, Snowdonia, the lake district, beaches and beauty spots by numerous selfish morons I believe HMG has to mandate staying at home and also immediate loss of licence of any pub or restaurant that remains open
I also want to see mandatory rationing of essential food and also home deliveries to those isolated from everyone, including family, receiving the basics of milk, bread, fruit and disinfectants
And on the economy I want to see help for the self employed which I understand is on the way
I want to see these too, but most of all, I want to see clear communications. As others have suggested, the BBC needs to be used to advertise simple messaging:
Wash your hands Stay at home Save the NHS Protect the country.
I would agree.
The BBC now need to be on a wartime footing with 24/7 public broadcasting
How about the Government abandon its childish and silly ban on appearing on certain programmes?
Morning Gideon, how are the family this morning? Hope they are no worse.
Thanks for asking. My wife is in bed and I'm just trying to keep the household going. She couldn't sleep last night as she said she was struggling to breathe. I slept on a camping bed in the other room.
Using the spo2 measure that Foxy recommended and her oxygen saturation is fine so. It's good to have one for those who haven't.
Boys seem ok just trashing my house.
Take care. If saturation goes below 93%, or respiratory rate above 30 per minute, usually coupled with a rising heart rate, then needs professional assessment.
Any chance of a refresher regarding the spo2 measure that Gideon refers to?
And is there a recommended brand/device? Had a quick look on Amazon and there is a large price range; I am wary of getting a cheap one
Bought a cheap one on Amazon - seems to work fine - Foxy said they were all much of a muchness. The other things he recommended were a peak flow meter (for lung capacity- take a baseline when you're well) - again, bought a cheap one and thermometer.
Same here. Not used the spo2 gadget; temperature normal; peak flow 300 for the last week or two but this morning up to nearly 400 so there is an outside chance I've been ill the past few days without noticing.
what is a decent peak flow , mine was 550 - 600
My benchmark is 650
But there is a medical reason why it might be above average
Hopefully not similar to Isam's accident, can imagine that would increase peak flow
Had a reminder for a 6 month dental checkup. Apparently they’re open. Don’t want invoke Sod’s law, but not comfortable going. What Should I do?
It's only a checkup, so if you're not comfortable going (and you aren't having any actual pain/other problems that might indicate a need for something to be done) I'd just phone them up and ask to postpone it for six months. I bet a lot of their checkup patients have done exactly that.
After the invasion of the Highlands, Snowdonia, the lake district, beaches and beauty spots by numerous selfish morons I believe HMG has to mandate staying at home and also immediate loss of licence of any pub or restaurant that remains open
I also want to see mandatory rationing of essential food and also home deliveries to those isolated from everyone, including family, receiving the basics of milk, bread, fruit and disinfectants
And on the economy I want to see help for the self employed which I understand is on the way
That is slightly harsh. Going out into the countryside yesterday was not obviously a bad thing to do, and very understandable as a last chance to do so before weeks of lockdown in a city. Lack of leadership is the problem here. I am hoping to see Dartmoor put off limits asap.
Had a reminder for a 6 month dental checkup. Apparently they’re open. Don’t want invoke Sod’s law, but not comfortable going. What Should I do?
Postpone if you have no issues. 6 month dental check-ups are a bit of a con for people with no issues who look after their teeth*. I go once every 12 months and I'd cancel an upcoming appt if I had one now.
Morning Gideon, how are the family this morning? Hope they are no worse.
Thanks for asking. My wife is in bed and I'm just trying to keep the household going. She couldn't sleep last night as she said she was struggling to breathe. I slept on a camping bed in the other room.
Using the spo2 measure that Foxy recommended and her oxygen saturation is fine so. It's good to have one for those who haven't.
Boys seem ok just trashing my house.
Take care. If saturation goes below 93%, or respiratory rate above 30 per minute, usually coupled with a rising heart rate, then needs professional assessment.
Any chance of a refresher regarding the spo2 measure that Gideon refers to?
And is there a recommended brand/device? Had a quick look on Amazon and there is a large price range; I am wary of getting a cheap one
Bought a cheap one on Amazon - seems to work fine - Foxy said they were all much of a muchness. The other things he recommended were a peak flow meter (for lung capacity- take a baseline when you're well) - again, bought a cheap one and thermometer.
Same here. Not used the spo2 gadget; temperature normal; peak flow 300 for the last week or two but this morning up to nearly 400 so there is an outside chance I've been ill the past few days without noticing.
what is a decent peak flow , mine was 550 - 600
My benchmark is 650
But there is a medical reason why it might be above average
More than ever the BBC also needs to keep an eye on this government, ask the difficult questions, and help hold it to account. We get better decisions that way.
We know that figures have at least a two week delay. We know that we shouldn't take today's figures and make judgements about whether the policies of a day ago have failed. But we're still doing it. PB is a mess at the moment.
We know Johnson's Ship of Fools has failed. The only unknown at this point is the body count.
Care to outline what wildly successful policy PM Dura Ace would have implemented, when, and on what basis?
I suspect that going with the herd immunity strategy for the first few days is ultimately going to b e seen as a costly error and when the history of this is written those responsible for pushing that line are not going to come out of it well.
Other than that I think the government has handled it about as well as anyone could have. If idiots keep ignoring the advice to socially isolate then the next step will be a Spanish/Italian style lockdown.
The government can only do so much when there a small minority of people who are too complacent, selfish or stupid to behave responsibly.
Mr. Jonathan, it needs to be responsible and ask intelligent questions. There's a lot of overlap there, but some journalism has been deeply irresponsible.
More than ever the BBC also needs to keep an eye on this government, ask the difficult questions, and help hold it to account. We get better decisions that way.
Fat chance , they are just a state propaganda unit. They do not even differentiate that UK does not equal England.
Morning Gideon, how are the family this morning? Hope they are no worse.
Thanks for asking. My wife is in bed and I'm just trying to keep the household going. She couldn't sleep last night as she said she was struggling to breathe. I slept on a camping bed in the other room.
Using the spo2 measure that Foxy recommended and her oxygen saturation is fine so. It's good to have one for those who haven't.
Boys seem ok just trashing my house.
Take care. If saturation goes below 93%, or respiratory rate above 30 per minute, usually coupled with a rising heart rate, then needs professional assessment.
Any chance of a refresher regarding the spo2 measure that Gideon refers to?
And is there a recommended brand/device? Had a quick look on Amazon and there is a large price range; I am wary of getting a cheap one
Bought a cheap one on Amazon - seems to work fine - Foxy said they were all much of a muchness. The other things he recommended were a peak flow meter (for lung capacity- take a baseline when you're well) - again, bought a cheap one and thermometer.
Same here. Not used the spo2 gadget; temperature normal; peak flow 300 for the last week or two but this morning up to nearly 400 so there is an outside chance I've been ill the past few days without noticing.
what is a decent peak flow , mine was 550 - 600
I believe 400 - 700 is normal depending on age
Mind you I have copd and I had my clinical review a few weeks ago and it is one of the most difficult tests to take. You sit in a chair with arms in case you keel over, (I kid you not) and the practice nurse keeps telling you to blow until every last breath is out of your lungs and then you repeat it several times)
The good news is that my copd has not degraded much from last year but I am on medication and covid 19 would be very dangerous for me
I had no idea the 2009 flu epidemic infected 11-21% of the global population at the time, 700 million to 1.4 billion people. Fatalities were estimated to be up to 575,000.
And that is seen as basically benign and the dog which didn’t bark! Shows how little comprehension we have as to what is likely to come with COVID-19. And how even the hardest hit countries may to some extent still be in the phoney war stage (which also leads to scepticism about how some countries are in serious trouble and others have basically got it licked).
To be honest looking at the stats I'm not sure the UK is in a good place witout further and rapid considerable tightening. Hope I'm wrong but..
No. I don't like to post deep pessimism as a general rule but my expectation is that we will have a health disaster at least as bad as Italy's. I just cannot see any reason why we won't.
Morning Gideon, how are the family this morning? Hope they are no worse.
Thanks for asking. My wife is in bed and I'm just trying to keep the household going. She couldn't sleep last night as she said she was struggling to breathe. I slept on a camping bed in the other room.
Using the spo2 measure that Foxy recommended and her oxygen saturation is fine so. It's good to have one for those who haven't.
Boys seem ok just trashing my house.
Take care. If saturation goes below 93%, or respiratory rate above 30 per minute, usually coupled with a rising heart rate, then needs professional assessment.
Any chance of a refresher regarding the spo2 measure that Gideon refers to?
And is there a recommended brand/device? Had a quick look on Amazon and there is a large price range; I am wary of getting a cheap one
Bought a cheap one on Amazon - seems to work fine - Foxy said they were all much of a muchness. The other things he recommended were a peak flow meter (for lung capacity- take a baseline when you're well) - again, bought a cheap one and thermometer.
Same here. Not used the spo2 gadget; temperature normal; peak flow 300 for the last week or two but this morning up to nearly 400 so there is an outside chance I've been ill the past few days without noticing.
what is a decent peak flow , mine was 550 - 600
Highly Dependent on height and age but that sounds pretty decent.
Mr. Jonathan, it needs to be responsible and ask intelligent questions. There's a lot of overlap there, but some journalism has been deeply irresponsible.
What are you saying the media asking the government about people selling instant pies at a markup and if they will be able to go on their summer holidays aren't crucially important questions?
We know that figures have at least a two week delay. We know that we shouldn't take today's figures and make judgements about whether the policies of a day ago have failed. But we're still doing it. PB is a mess at the moment.
We know Johnson's Ship of Fools has failed. The only unknown at this point is the body count.
Care to outline what wildly successful policy PM Dura Ace would have implemented, when, and on what basis?
I suspect that going with the herd immunity strategy for the first few days is ultimately going to b e seen as a costly error and when the history of this is written those responsible for pushing that line are not going to come out of it well.
Other than that I think the government has handled it about as well as anyone could have. If idiots keep ignoring the advice to socially isolate then the next step will be a Spanish/Italian style lockdown.
The government can only do so much when there a small minority of people who are too complacent, selfish or stupid to behave responsibly.
When the judge led independent public inquiry ultimately happens (for it surely must) it will be fascinating to learn what the scientific and medical advice was in the years leading up for the outbreak and during the outbreak and how the government responded.
I braved the dentist on Thursday to have a temporary filling put in... worried that I shouldn’t have risked it ever since... and it fell out this morning while I was eating my toast!
How could you eat toast with one bollock in a beer bottle
I imagine the answer is, very carefully, standing up, using only one hand for all parts of the toast making and eating process.
Morning Gideon, how are the family this morning? Hope they are no worse.
Thanks for asking. My wife is in bed and I'm just trying to keep the household going. She couldn't sleep last night as she said she was struggling to breathe. I slept on a camping bed in the other room.
Using the spo2 measure that Foxy recommended and her oxygen saturation is fine so. It's good to have one for those who haven't.
Boys seem ok just trashing my house.
Take care. If saturation goes below 93%, or respiratory rate above 30 per minute, usually coupled with a rising heart rate, then needs professional assessment.
Any chance of a refresher regarding the spo2 measure that Gideon refers to?
And is there a recommended brand/device? Had a quick look on Amazon and there is a large price range; I am wary of getting a cheap one
Bought a cheap one on Amazon - seems to work fine - Foxy said they were all much of a muchness. The other things he recommended were a peak flow meter (for lung capacity- take a baseline when you're well) - again, bought a cheap one and thermometer.
Same here. Not used the spo2 gadget; temperature normal; peak flow 300 for the last week or two but this morning up to nearly 400 so there is an outside chance I've been ill the past few days without noticing.
what is a decent peak flow , mine was 550 - 600
I believe 400 - 700 is normal depending on age
Mind you I have copd and I had my clinical review a few weeks ago and it is one of the most difficult tests to take. You sit in a chair with arms in case you keel over, (I kid you not) and the practice nurse keels telling you to blow when evrry ksst breath is out of your lungs)
The good news is that my copd has not degraded much from last year but I am on medication and covid 19 would be very dangerous for me
Good luck G, only due to wife's illness that I have purchased every gadget available and they are being used regularly at present. Getting virus would be fatal for my wife in present condition for sure.
Morning Gideon, how are the family this morning? Hope they are no worse.
Thanks for asking. My wife is in bed and I'm just trying to keep the household going. She couldn't sleep last night as she said she was struggling to breathe. I slept on a camping bed in the other room.
Using the spo2 measure that Foxy recommended and her oxygen saturation is fine so. It's good to have one for those who haven't.
Boys seem ok just trashing my house.
Take care. If saturation goes below 93%, or respiratory rate above 30 per minute, usually coupled with a rising heart rate, then needs professional assessment.
Any chance of a refresher regarding the spo2 measure that Gideon refers to?
And is there a recommended brand/device? Had a quick look on Amazon and there is a large price range; I am wary of getting a cheap one
Bought a cheap one on Amazon - seems to work fine - Foxy said they were all much of a muchness. The other things he recommended were a peak flow meter (for lung capacity- take a baseline when you're well) - again, bought a cheap one and thermometer.
Same here. Not used the spo2 gadget; temperature normal; peak flow 300 for the last week or two but this morning up to nearly 400 so there is an outside chance I've been ill the past few days without noticing.
what is a decent peak flow , mine was 550 - 600
We'll all be different - the issue is if YOURS drops a lot. There is also variation throughout the day.
A drop of around 20 percent from the normal would be cause for concern, but a drop of 50 percent would be alarming and would require immediate medical attention.
Mr. Urquhart, second hand (forget if I read it here or on Twitter) but apparently yesterday some BBC journalist, discussing a potential London lockdown, asked if Londoners should leave whilst they could.
How do the supermarkets square these dedicated opening time slots for the elderly with official policy that such people shouldn't be going shopping at all?
Can't answer that one Ian but on a different topic: what's your lastest thinking on how low the DJ index will go, and how long it will take to bottom out?
Toward the middle of last week, I sensed a whiff of recovery, as I said here on Thursday I think. Not so much that there is good news on the horizon as that markets have now normalised the bad news we already know. And the 5000/20000 levels had been doing a good job of providing some resistance. So I expected markets to recover a little in the short term, pending seriously bad medical news from the US.
So it proved, up until after close Friday, when something (not sure what - the latest US virus stats?) saw the markets turn sharply down again. I had a couple of buy positions that looked promising but which are now underwater.
This is interesting - although it's possible it is a morale piece rather than honest financial analysis:
Right now, the rapid spread in the US and the scale of the economic assistance being demanded, makes me feel a further drop on Monday may be on the cards. If it looks that way when futures trading opens tonight, I may dump my positions and cut their losses. If the market perks back up, I may hold them to Monday.
Medium term I think a further fall is likely when the true scale of the economic damage becomes apparent and the news is full of bankruptcy stories and unemployment. And NYC right outside the doors of Wall Street looks like being the worst spot in the US.
I genuinely don't yet have a feel as to whether this is next week or next month.
I see bloody Jezza has been out and about on the media this morning. Get in your bloody house and stay there.
Why is there nobody loudly and publicly calling out the damage he does to the “stay at home” except where necessary message? He could at least do interviews from home!
The message is think of others before yourself. “Stay at home. Protect the NHS. Don’t put doctors and nurses at risk more than they already are”
Best wishes to PBers suffering from the virus, with relatives suffering; and to those directly or or indirectly caught up on the front line (medical care).
One part of the government messaging strategy (and isn't just unique to this one), the flawed approach of not trying to scare the horses by saying 80% will have mild to symptoms and the old are at high risk of death.
By mild, it includes those with really bad pneumonia, and a significant proportion of young and middle aged people require hospitalization (the difference being with treatment most survive)...and this constant announcements they died with underlying health conditions.
Because the public are shit at maths and this incorrect view of the evaluation of risk of serious illness, far too many young and people who consider themselves as "fit", think there is no risk to them.
The problem we have in all countries is that there are many people who just do not watch or read the news. If your source of entertainment is Netflix etc then your exposure to messages promoting sensible precautions will be nil. Maybe you need to do what was done in Spain on the early days of the lockdown which was to tour the streets blasting a simple multi lingual message out. It also brings home the seriousness of the situation.
After the invasion of the Highlands, Snowdonia, the lake district, beaches and beauty spots by numerous selfish morons I believe HMG has to mandate staying at home and also immediate loss of licence of any pub or restaurant that remains open
I also want to see mandatory rationing of essential food and also home deliveries to those isolated from everyone, including family, receiving the basics of milk, bread, fruit and disinfectants
And on the economy I want to see help for the self employed which I understand is on the way
I want to see these too, but most of all, I want to see clear communications. As others have suggested, the BBC needs to be used to advertise simple messaging:
Wash your hands Stay at home Save the NHS Protect the country.
I would agree.
The BBC now need to be on a wartime footing with 24/7 public broadcasting
How about the Government abandon its childish and silly ban on appearing on certain programmes?
After the invasion of the Highlands, Snowdonia, the lake district, beaches and beauty spots by numerous selfish morons I believe HMG has to mandate staying at home and also immediate loss of licence of any pub or restaurant that remains open
I also want to see mandatory rationing of essential food and also home deliveries to those isolated from everyone, including family, receiving the basics of milk, bread, fruit and disinfectants
And on the economy I want to see help for the self employed which I understand is on the way
I want to see these too, but most of all, I want to see clear communications. As others have suggested, the BBC needs to be used to advertise simple messaging:
Wash your hands Stay at home Save the NHS Protect the country.
I would agree.
The BBC now need to be on a wartime footing with 24/7 public broadcasting
This is good - but they need to go well beyond Twitter. They need to be advertising this until people are sick to the back teeth of it - then they'll have done their job.
OT Japan seems to have mostly decided the problem is if you're in a closed space with lots of people and bad ventilation, and if we just try not to do that as much then everything will be fine. There's still hardly any testing, and they're reopening the schools.
It's a useful experiment for everybody else to look at, I guess...
So if it works the National Trust can reopen its fields and gardens, just keep the cafes closed. But stay away from hospitals, doctors' surgeries and pharmacies which seem the most dangerous places in the country.
Calling all PB medics. - is this significant for dealing with the UK outbreak?
What I don't understand is why azithromycin (an antibacterial - Zithromax) would have an impact on a virus. My assumption would be that it is helping with secondary infections rather than the underlying cause? Similarly HCQ impacts on some of the odd stuff going on in the blood (rapid formation and breakdown of clots) - this is similar to what is observed in malaria hence the use of HCQ.
Our consultant noted that a lot of these studies have been in vitro rather than in vivo, so need to be treated with caution.
Our local hospital is running on HCQ+Kaletra plus looking at an RCT with HCQ+nebulised interferon
The problem we have in all countries is that there are many people who just do not watch or read the news. If your source of entertainment is Netflix etc then your exposure to messages promoting sensible precautions will be nil. Maybe you need to do what was done in Spain on the early days of the lockdown which was to tour the streets blasting a simple multi lingual message out. It also brings home the seriousness of the situation.
They need to talk to Google / YouTube about running the public service announcements where ads go...and loads of channels aren't monetised so don't have ads, stick the government PSA before everyone of those.
More than ever the BBC also needs to keep an eye on this government, ask the difficult questions, and help hold it to account. We get better decisions that way.
The importance to the nation of the BBC is brought home at a time like this. Less of the "All I need is YouTube" talk these days, I would wager.
Morning Gideon, how are the family this morning? Hope they are no worse.
Thanks for asking. My wife is in bed and I'm just trying to keep the household going. She couldn't sleep last night as she said she was struggling to breathe. I slept on a camping bed in the other room.
Using the spo2 measure that Foxy recommended and her oxygen saturation is fine so. It's good to have one for those who haven't.
Boys seem ok just trashing my house.
Take care. If saturation goes below 93%, or respiratory rate above 30 per minute, usually coupled with a rising heart rate, then needs professional assessment.
Any chance of a refresher regarding the spo2 measure that Gideon refers to?
And is there a recommended brand/device? Had a quick look on Amazon and there is a large price range; I am wary of getting a cheap one
Bought a cheap one on Amazon - seems to work fine - Foxy said they were all much of a muchness. The other things he recommended were a peak flow meter (for lung capacity- take a baseline when you're well) - again, bought a cheap one and thermometer.
Same here. Not used the spo2 gadget; temperature normal; peak flow 300 for the last week or two but this morning up to nearly 400 so there is an outside chance I've been ill the past few days without noticing.
what is a decent peak flow , mine was 550 - 600
My benchmark is 650
But there is a medical reason why it might be above average
Hopefully not similar to Isam's accident, can imagine that would increase peak flow
Morning Gideon, how are the family this morning? Hope they are no worse.
Thanks for asking. My wife is in bed and I'm just trying to keep the household going. She couldn't sleep last night as she said she was struggling to breathe. I slept on a camping bed in the other room.
Using the spo2 measure that Foxy recommended and her oxygen saturation is fine so. It's good to have one for those who haven't.
Boys seem ok just trashing my house.
Take care. If saturation goes below 93%, or respiratory rate above 30 per minute, usually coupled with a rising heart rate, then needs professional assessment.
Any chance of a refresher regarding the spo2 measure that Gideon refers to?
And is there a recommended brand/device? Had a quick look on Amazon and there is a large price range; I am wary of getting a cheap one
Bought a cheap one on Amazon - seems to work fine - Foxy said they were all much of a muchness. The other things he recommended were a peak flow meter (for lung capacity- take a baseline when you're well) - again, bought a cheap one and thermometer.
Same here. Not used the spo2 gadget; temperature normal; peak flow 300 for the last week or two but this morning up to nearly 400 so there is an outside chance I've been ill the past few days without noticing.
what is a decent peak flow , mine was 550 - 600
Highly Dependent on height and age but that sounds pretty decent.
That sort of level is very good, Malc. I'm mildly asthmatic, go to the gym (well when I could) about struggle to get much above 350. Weh younger I could walk for miles, but running was a problem.
The problem we have in all countries is that there are many people who just do not watch or read the news. If your source of entertainment is Netflix etc then your exposure to messages promoting sensible precautions will be nil. Maybe you need to do what was done in Spain on the early days of the lockdown which was to tour the streets blasting a simple multi lingual message out. It also brings home the seriousness of the situation.
They need to talk to Google / YouTube about running the public service announcements where ads go...and loads of channels aren't monetised so don't have ads, stick the government PSA before everyone of those.
This needs to be constant bombardment.
YouTube has just stuck a huge banner advert for the NHS information service in front of the train video I was watching.
After the invasion of the Highlands, Snowdonia, the lake district, beaches and beauty spots by numerous selfish morons I believe HMG has to mandate staying at home and also immediate loss of licence of any pub or restaurant that remains open
I also want to see mandatory rationing of essential food and also home deliveries to those isolated from everyone, including family, receiving the basics of milk, bread, fruit and disinfectants
And on the economy I want to see help for the self employed which I understand is on the way
I want to see these too, but most of all, I want to see clear communications. As others have suggested, the BBC needs to be used to advertise simple messaging:
Wash your hands Stay at home Save the NHS Protect the country.
I would agree.
The BBC now need to be on a wartime footing with 24/7 public broadcasting
How about the Government abandon its childish and silly ban on appearing on certain programmes?
To be honest looking at the stats I'm not sure the UK is in a good place witout further and rapid considerable tightening. Hope I'm wrong but..
No. I don't like to post deep pessimism as a general rule but my expectation is that we will have a health disaster at least as bad as Italy's. I just cannot see any reason why we won't.
Our cultural and social habits are very different to the Italians. The population here is younger than Italy. People don't live in extended family households as much.
How do the supermarkets square these dedicated opening time slots for the elderly with official policy that such people shouldn't be going shopping at all?
Can't answer that one Ian but on a different topic: what's your lastest thinking on how low the DJ index will go, and how long it will take to bottom out?
Toward the middle of last week, I sensed a whiff of recovery, as I said here on Thursday I think. Not so much that there is good news on the horizon as that markets have now normalised the bad news we already know. And the 5000/20000 levels had been doing a good job of providing some resistance. So I expected markets to recover a little in the short term, pending seriously bad medical news from the US.
So it proved, up until after close Friday, when something (not sure what - the latest US virus stats?) saw the markets turn sharply down again. I had a couple of buy positions that looked promising but which are now underwater.
This is interesting - although it's possible it is a morale piece rather than honest financial analysis:
Right now, the rapid spread in the US and the scale of the economic assistance being demanded, makes me feel a further drop on Monday may be on the cards. If it looks that way when futures trading opens tonight, I may dump my positions and cut their losses. If the market perks back up, I may hold them to Monday.
Medium term I think a further fall is likely when the true scale of the economic damage becomes apparent and the news is full of bankruptcy stories and unemployment. And NYC right outside the doors of Wall Street looks like being the worst spot in the US.
I genuinely don't yet have a feel as to whether this is next week or next month.
Thanks. I know the cause and general environment are totally different to the 1929 crash but it's worth remembering that the US stock market continued to fall for nearly 3 years after the initial crash.
Cummings' approach is perfectly intelligent if all you care about are utilitarian ends: resolving the crisis quickly, minimizing economic damage, improving the national dependency ratio and lowering long-term pension and health costs. He may even be proved right eventually if the world fails to get a handle on the crisis and it ends up spreading uncontrollably with no effective vaccine in sight.
It's utterly inhumane, but not unintelligent.
No, it's fucking stupid. Five minutes with a calculator shows that the approach would render the NHS totally non functional under the weight of cases.
Orders of magnitude more people would die. The economy would totally collapse under the weight of the sick.
It is not utilitarian, it's the idea of a self confident moron with private medical cover.
Not so much corrected as enhanced for you.
Then he's even more of an idiot than I thought.
Private sector is good for elective and chronic conditions - more capacity (hence less queuing) and they make you feel good. For acute situations always go with the NHS.
OT Japan seems to have mostly decided the problem is if you're in a closed space with lots of people and bad ventilation, and if we just try not to do that as much then everything will be fine. There's still hardly any testing, and they're reopening the schools.
It's a useful experiment for everybody else to look at, I guess...
So if it works the National Trust can reopen its fields and gardens, just keep the cafes closed. But stay away from hospitals, doctors' surgeries and pharmacies which seem the most dangerous places in the country.
Calling all PB medics. - is this significant for dealing with the UK outbreak?
What I don't understand is why azithromycin (an antibacterial - Zithromax) would have an impact on a virus. My assumption would be that it is helping with secondary infections rather than the underlying cause? Similarly HCQ impacts on some of the odd stuff going on in the blood (rapid formation and breakdown of clots) - this is similar to what is observed in malaria hence the use of HCQ.
Our consultant noted that a lot of these studies have been in vitro rather than in vivo, so need to be treated with caution.
Our local hospital is running on HCQ+Kaletra plus looking at an RCT with HCQ+nebulised interferon
Did you see the recent medical paper as result of a small trial that said Kaletra had no effect?
One thing does not quite add up about this Cummings story. He has been ill recently and his personal vulnerability/mortality will not be far from his mind.
We saw it yesterday in the buzzfeed story.
I think someone is out to get him and is using this pandemic as a tool.
I have no candle for Cummings, but that's a shitty way to behave
Morning Gideon, how are the family this morning? Hope they are no worse.
Thanks for asking. My wife is in bed and I'm just trying to keep the household going. She couldn't sleep last night as she said she was struggling to breathe. I slept on a camping bed in the other room.
Using the spo2 measure that Foxy recommended and her oxygen saturation is fine so. It's good to have one for those who haven't.
Boys seem ok just trashing my house.
Take care. If saturation goes below 93%, or respiratory rate above 30 per minute, usually coupled with a rising heart rate, then needs professional assessment.
Any chance of a refresher regarding the spo2 measure that Gideon refers to?
And is there a recommended brand/device? Had a quick look on Amazon and there is a large price range; I am wary of getting a cheap one
Bought a cheap one on Amazon - seems to work fine - Foxy said they were all much of a muchness. The other things he recommended were a peak flow meter (for lung capacity- take a baseline when you're well) - again, bought a cheap one and thermometer.
Same here. Not used the spo2 gadget; temperature normal; peak flow 300 for the last week or two but this morning up to nearly 400 so there is an outside chance I've been ill the past few days without noticing.
what is a decent peak flow , mine was 550 - 600
I believe 400 - 700 is normal depending on age
Mind you I have copd and I had my clinical review a few weeks ago and it is one of the most difficult tests to take. You sit in a chair with arms in case you keel over, (I kid you not) and the practice nurse keels telling you to blow when evrry ksst breath is out of your lungs)
The good news is that my copd has not degraded much from last year but I am on medication and covid 19 would be very dangerous for me
Good luck G, only due to wife's illness that I have purchased every gadget available and they are being used regularly at present. Getting virus would be fatal for my wife in present condition for sure.
I have had blood pressure monitor, digital thermometer and pulse/oxygen monitors for some years and do use them as necessary without becoming a hypochondriac but I really do agree about your good lady who has had such a difficult time, as you have.
The problem we have in all countries is that there are many people who just do not watch or read the news. If your source of entertainment is Netflix etc then your exposure to messages promoting sensible precautions will be nil. Maybe you need to do what was done in Spain on the early days of the lockdown which was to tour the streets blasting a simple multi lingual message out. It also brings home the seriousness of the situation.
They need to talk to Google / YouTube about running the public service announcements where ads go...and loads of channels aren't monetised so don't have ads, stick the government PSA before everyone of those.
This needs to be constant bombardment.
YouTube has just stuck a huge banner advert for the NHS information service in front of the train video I was watching.
Naturally I closed it straight away...
No, they need to be embedded and none skippable video ads.
Now obviously people do have adblockers on their pc, but on tv, iPad and phones most people definitely don't.
The problem we have in all countries is that there are many people who just do not watch or read the news. If your source of entertainment is Netflix etc then your exposure to messages promoting sensible precautions will be nil. Maybe you need to do what was done in Spain on the early days of the lockdown which was to tour the streets blasting a simple multi lingual message out. It also brings home the seriousness of the situation.
Yes there was some discussion earlier about how the Govt media messaging seems to have been far more focussed on social media as opposed to “old fashioned” public information messages on mainstream tv channels. This is STILL the mass media, as they like to tell us when ever twitter fails as an indicator at election time.
I wonder what polling says about how many people still claim to have heard about Coronavirus, let alone whether they’ve been taking on board Govt messages.
OT Japan seems to have mostly decided the problem is if you're in a closed space with lots of people and bad ventilation, and if we just try not to do that as much then everything will be fine. There's still hardly any testing, and they're reopening the schools.
It's a useful experiment for everybody else to look at, I guess...
So if it works the National Trust can reopen its fields and gardens, just keep the cafes closed. But stay away from hospitals, doctors' surgeries and pharmacies which seem the most dangerous places in the country.
Calling all PB medics. - is this significant for dealing with the UK outbreak?
What I don't understand is why azithromycin (an antibacterial - Zithromax) would have an impact on a virus. My assumption would be that it is helping with secondary infections rather than the underlying cause? Similarly HCQ impacts on some of the odd stuff going on in the blood (rapid formation and breakdown of clots) - this is similar to what is observed in malaria hence the use of HCQ.
Our consultant noted that a lot of these studies have been in vitro rather than in vivo, so need to be treated with caution.
Our local hospital is running on HCQ+Kaletra plus looking at an RCT with HCQ+nebulised interferon
I've been noting the azithromycin references too; I have to keep a supply in case I get a chest infection and I've been quite pleased, but like you am puzzled.
Morning Gideon, how are the family this morning? Hope they are no worse.
Thanks for asking. My wife is in bed and I'm just trying to keep the household going. She couldn't sleep last night as she said she was struggling to breathe. I slept on a camping bed in the other room.
Using the spo2 measure that Foxy recommended and her oxygen saturation is fine so. It's good to have one for those who haven't.
Boys seem ok just trashing my house.
Take care. If saturation goes below 93%, or respiratory rate above 30 per minute, usually coupled with a rising heart rate, then needs professional assessment.
Any chance of a refresher regarding the spo2 measure that Gideon refers to?
And is there a recommended brand/device? Had a quick look on Amazon and there is a large price range; I am wary of getting a cheap one
Bought a cheap one on Amazon - seems to work fine - Foxy said they were all much of a muchness. The other things he recommended were a peak flow meter (for lung capacity- take a baseline when you're well) - again, bought a cheap one and thermometer.
Same here. Not used the spo2 gadget; temperature normal; peak flow 300 for the last week or two but this morning up to nearly 400 so there is an outside chance I've been ill the past few days without noticing.
what is a decent peak flow , mine was 550 - 600
My benchmark is 650
But there is a medical reason why it might be above average
Looked it up and it is 400 - 700
Here's a calculator that enables you to dial your height/age/gender...
How do the supermarkets square these dedicated opening time slots for the elderly with official policy that such people shouldn't be going shopping at all?
Can't answer that one Ian but on a different topic: what's your lastest thinking on how low the DJ index will go, and how long it will take to bottom out?
Toward the middle of last week, I sensed a whiff of recovery, as I said here on Thursday I think. Not so much that there is good news on the horizon as that markets have now normalised the bad news we already know. And the 5000/20000 levels had been doing a good job of providing some resistance. So I expected markets to recover a little in the short term, pending seriously bad medical news from the US.
So it proved, up until after close Friday, when something (not sure what - the latest US virus stats?) saw the markets turn sharply down again. I had a couple of buy positions that looked promising but which are now underwater.
This is interesting - although it's possible it is a morale piece rather than honest financial analysis:
Right now, the rapid spread in the US and the scale of the economic assistance being demanded, makes me feel a further drop on Monday may be on the cards. If it looks that way when futures trading opens tonight, I may dump my positions and cut their losses. If the market perks back up, I may hold them to Monday.
Medium term I think a further fall is likely when the true scale of the economic damage becomes apparent and the news is full of bankruptcy stories and unemployment. And NYC right outside the doors of Wall Street looks like being the worst spot in the US.
I genuinely don't yet have a feel as to whether this is next week or next month.
Thanks. I know the cause and general environment are totally different to the 1929 crash but it's worth remembering that the US stock market continued to fall for nearly 3 years after the initial crash.
A big difference now is what Odey identifies - a lot of trading is automated, and some that isn't works off trends and chart points. So you'd expect the market to become oversold at some point, however bad the economic damage. He's being bold in calling it so early, though, I agree. And clearly he can afford to be wrong.
To be honest looking at the stats I'm not sure the UK is in a good place witout further and rapid considerable tightening. Hope I'm wrong but..
No. I don't like to post deep pessimism as a general rule but my expectation is that we will have a health disaster at least as bad as Italy's. I just cannot see any reason why we won't.
This bloke reckons there’s a link between Chinese immigrants in Prato and the spread of it... but that’s not even in Lombardy
How do the supermarkets square these dedicated opening time slots for the elderly with official policy that such people shouldn't be going shopping at all?
Most people still need to shop for food, we have no other options at the moment. Having never used an online supermarket delivery we can't get one that can deliver inside the next 3 weeks,.
The advantage I see of shopping during that hour is that it is far less crowded and the limited contact you have with people are more likely to be with those that understand there is a serious problem and are taking the right precautions rather than with numpties who are too thick to understand there is a problem.
OT Japan seems to have mostly decided the problem is if you're in a closed space with lots of people and bad ventilation, and if we just try not to do that as much then everything will be fine. There's still hardly any testing, and they're reopening the schools.
It's a useful experiment for everybody else to look at, I guess...
So if it works the National Trust can reopen its fields and gardens, just keep the cafes closed. But stay away from hospitals, doctors' surgeries and pharmacies which seem the most dangerous places in the country.
Calling all PB medics. - is this significant for dealing with the UK outbreak?
What I don't understand is why azithromycin (an antibacterial - Zithromax) would have an impact on a virus. My assumption would be that it is helping with secondary infections rather than the underlying cause? Similarly HCQ impacts on some of the odd stuff going on in the blood (rapid formation and breakdown of clots) - this is similar to what is observed in malaria hence the use of HCQ.
Our consultant noted that a lot of these studies have been in vitro rather than in vivo, so need to be treated with caution.
Our local hospital is running on HCQ+Kaletra plus looking at an RCT with HCQ+nebulised interferon
I've been noting the azithromycin references too; I have to keep a supply in case I get a chest infection and I've been quite pleased, but like you am puzzled.
In Nigeria, where anti malarials are obviously common, I believe people are already pitching up at hospitals having overdosed on the pills in fear of the virus.
After the invasion of the Highlands, Snowdonia, the lake district, beaches and beauty spots by numerous selfish morons I believe HMG has to mandate staying at home and also immediate loss of licence of any pub or restaurant that remains open
I also want to see mandatory rationing of essential food and also home deliveries to those isolated from everyone, including family, receiving the basics of milk, bread, fruit and disinfectants
And on the economy I want to see help for the self employed which I understand is on the way
I want to see these too, but most of all, I want to see clear communications. As others have suggested, the BBC needs to be used to advertise simple messaging:
Wash your hands Stay at home Save the NHS Protect the country.
I would agree.
The BBC now need to be on a wartime footing with 24/7 public broadcasting
How about the Government abandon its childish and silly ban on appearing on certain programmes?
I have seen lots of ministers on BBC and Sky
Not on the boycotted programmes
To be honest I long since stopped watching Newsnight and Question Time
Comments
When we are talking about complete collapse of the health service we don't mean "can't get an appointment with a GP for a bit " we mean "takes years to recover due to all the dead doctors".
Didn’t stop some predicting the moral collapse of the EU project, though.
Small pub, absolutely rammed with half-pissed people celebrating the start of the weekend. If anybody in that pub had C-19 we all have now. (No signs so far and only a couple of recorded cases here in Dorset, so I suspect we are ok for the time being.)
Anyway, it's made me feel I am not sure the UK has any particular inherent advantage re social distancing - our drinking culture will tell against us.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Katherines-House-Sarah-Hogg/dp/1912881497
One interesting set of countries to keep an eye on is the Scandinavian bloc. In many ways they are (outside London, which is quite distinct in many ways from the rest of the UK) quite similar to us. It's early, but the numbers there will be worth looking at I think.
UK shutdown will need at least 90pc of people to obey it to be effective, pandemic adviser warns
"Schools and daycare centres are to be closed up to and including April 6 Schools and daycare centres will provide supervision for the children of healthcare, public transport and emergency service workers, so they can continue to work. Teachers will organise distance learning for children who are at home, with priority for children who are due to take final exams this year.
Cafes and restaurants, but not hotels, are to close from Sunday March 15 at 6pm up to and including April 6
Sports clubs, fitness centres and gyms to close up to and including April 6
Sex clubs and cannabis cafes (coffee shops) will also close from March 15 at 6pm up to and including Monday April 6.
Where possible, people should keep 1.5 metres apart. This includes when shopping.
Read more at DutchNews.nl:"
https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/03/coronavirus-in-the-netherlands-what-you-need-to-know-2/
After the invasion of the Highlands, Snowdonia, the lake district, beaches and beauty spots by numerous selfish morons I believe HMG has to mandate staying at home and also immediate loss of licence of any pub or restaurant that remains open
I also want to see mandatory rationing of essential food and also home deliveries to those isolated from everyone, including family, receiving the basics of milk, bread, fruit and disinfectants
And on the economy I want to see help for the self employed which I understand is on the way
https://twitter.com/F1/status/1241475992092319744
But there is a medical reason why it might be above average
Wash your hands
Stay at home
Save the NHS
Protect the country.
'All hands to the pump'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_flu_pandemic
The BBC now need to be on a wartime footing with 24/7 public broadcasting
I did.
Edited extra bit: unless you have pain or something that you think needs attention.
(* IANAD though!)
Other than that I think the government has handled it about as well as anyone could have. If idiots keep ignoring the advice to socially isolate then the next step will be a Spanish/Italian style lockdown.
The government can only do so much when there a small minority of people who are too complacent, selfish or stupid to behave responsibly.
Mind you I have copd and I had my clinical review a few weeks ago and it is one of the most difficult tests to take. You sit in a chair with arms in case you keel over, (I kid you not) and the practice nurse keeps telling you to blow until every last breath is out of your lungs and then you repeat it several times)
The good news is that my copd has not degraded much from last year but I am on medication and covid 19 would be very dangerous for me
A drop of around 20 percent from the normal would be cause for concern, but a drop of 50 percent would be alarming and would require immediate medical attention.
http://rcnhca.org.uk/clinical-skills/observation/peak-flow-testing/
....
So it proved, up until after close Friday, when something (not sure what - the latest US virus stats?) saw the markets turn sharply down again. I had a couple of buy positions that looked promising but which are now underwater.
This is interesting - although it's possible it is a morale piece rather than honest financial analysis:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8138609/Hedge-fund-tycoon-Crispin-Odey-makes-115million-months-coronavirus-stock-market-crash.html
Right now, the rapid spread in the US and the scale of the economic assistance being demanded, makes me feel a further drop on Monday may be on the cards. If it looks that way when futures trading opens tonight, I may dump my positions and cut their losses. If the market perks back up, I may hold them to Monday.
Medium term I think a further fall is likely when the true scale of the economic damage becomes apparent and the news is full of bankruptcy stories and unemployment. And NYC right outside the doors of Wall Street looks like being the worst spot in the US.
I genuinely don't yet have a feel as to whether this is next week or next month.
The message is think of others before yourself. “Stay at home. Protect the NHS. Don’t put doctors and nurses at risk more than they already are”
You never need to apologise for long posts about the 15th century. Is one of the highlights of PB.
By mild, it includes those with really bad pneumonia, and a significant proportion of young and middle aged people require hospitalization (the difference being with treatment most survive)...and this constant announcements they died with underlying health conditions.
Because the public are shit at maths and this incorrect view of the evaluation of risk of serious illness, far too many young and people who consider themselves as "fit", think there is no risk to them.
Maybe you need to do what was done in Spain on the early days of the lockdown which was to tour the streets blasting a simple multi lingual message out. It also brings home the seriousness of the situation.
To be honest though, dentists are pretty sterile and the staff are all in masks and gloves, so should be safer than most places
This is good - but they need to go well beyond Twitter. They need to be advertising this until people are sick to the back teeth of it - then they'll have done their job.
https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1241388730180608003?s=20
Our consultant noted that a lot of these studies have been in vitro rather than in vivo, so need to be treated with caution.
Our local hospital is running on HCQ+Kaletra plus looking at an RCT with HCQ+nebulised interferon
This needs to be constant bombardment.
Weh younger I could walk for miles, but running was a problem.
Naturally I closed it straight away...
Private sector is good for elective and chronic conditions - more capacity (hence less queuing) and they make you feel good. For acute situations always go with the NHS.
I thought it would be a useful thing to know in the event of needing stop Londoners escaping.
I think someone is out to get him and is using this pandemic as a tool.
I have no candle for Cummings, but that's a shitty way to behave
Please keep safe
Now obviously people do have adblockers on their pc, but on tv, iPad and phones most people definitely don't.
I wonder what polling says about how many people still claim to have heard about Coronavirus, let alone whether they’ve been taking on board Govt messages.
https://patient.info/doctor/peak-flow-recording#nav-1
https://twitter.com/antonkreil/status/1239471377888886785?s=21
The advantage I see of shopping during that hour is that it is far less crowded and the limited contact you have with people are more likely to be with those that understand there is a serious problem and are taking the right precautions rather than with numpties who are too thick to understand there is a problem.
Given the rate at which they are abandoning previous positions, it's hard to see that lasting. But can it be sealed off?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTyS8bC9qNI