I'm not too bothered about the pubs being open. Everyone has to make their own decisions, whether distancing, isolating, or complete lockdown. I appreciate that this means the disease will spread faster, but it is at different stages, and there are different levels of risk, all over the country. It's unlikely to be as risky in the village pub at Crinkly-Bottom-On-The-Wold as it is in a packed bar in London, where the health service is also more challenged. Just warning people rather than shutting people down allows these micro-decisions to be made, and allows differing levels of observance throughout the country. It's a pragmatic British fudge, it fully satisfies nobody but is hopefully survivable for most.
Yes, if pubs are open with only 10 people in them is that really a problem? There’s no way it makes sense for villages that are pretty isolated already to impose the same restrictions as are needed in inner London
I went over our local last night and bought a takeaway curry for a tenner. The pub usually has 40-50 eating in the evenings and perhaps 20 drinkers, but there must've been 10 people there in total. The landlords are crestfallen, but they willl continue to do nice grub and those of us who live on the nearby estate are going to make the effort to buy takeaways.
If the pub went out of business it'd be heartbreaking.
Pubs have been decimated nationwide the last 15 years as it is.
So, my wife is a teaching assistant at a large private school. She's only just started back after her illness, and is on reduced hours. They've just been told that it is business as usual for all staff. They expect to have large numbers of children in school, so staff are to come to work as normal, even during Easter as the school runs holiday clubs as all the rich parents use the school as expensive child care. I thought the idea was to limit the number of people mixing together......
In one way, that's very surprising. My school has closed for Easter early, has cancelled all the Easter holiday lets, and I've heard that they're not expecting much, if any, use of the school buildings over the summer either. I know many other private schools are doing the same, and I wouldn't be surprised if you hear of a number of them going out of business by the end of the year (holiday lets can easily add hundreds of thousands of pounds to the income of a medium sized school, just as universities earn similar amounts from holiday conferences these days).
On the other hand, I can understand the thinking - boarding schools can run as quite closed communities, so with some small changes in behaviour they can run in effect an internal lockdown. How porous this will be is down to how the school is operating. If they're just running day holiday clubs, though, this seems ill advised.
My laptop is constantly being logged out of PB this morning. It’s frustrating.
Anyway the key, as I and many others have been saying on here is to keep the income flowing and as many jobs as possible intact until the virus is over. Boris reckons we are 12 weeks from that. It should be possible for the government to pay everyone’s wages for that long. They are already paying the 40% in the public sector. They need to keep the tax base for the recovery.
At the moment even those who are still paid are not spending. Restaurants, hotels, holidays, cars, cinema, home improvements, nothing is going to happen until we can move about freely and without fear. But we will need all of those things in due course. More than ever in many cases.
Boris' 12 week reckoning didn't make it to the end of the news conference.
Boris has sensibly left the heavy lifting to the experts, perhaps he should engage an expert communicator to run the press conferences.
It’s true get compliance, not level with people.
If its 6 months or longer how feasible is an isolation plan in the first place? What stat.
i assume they are hoping it will only need to be 3 or 4 months but no doubt have plans for much longer. that will require horrendous enforcement methods imho.
In which cack to.
There are issues to the longer containment, but no need for your hyperbole. It takes long as it takes to do whatever it takes. The easing at the other end has got to be right as there won’t be a vaccination for all the most vulnerable people, though it’s right politicians lead us on believing magic immunity bullet coming soon at this stage, you would have to say the same in their position. Lead people on and not be straight with them.
No hyperbole in my post. A year of complete isolation for people on their own, or a year of being cooped up together with family for others will be a mental disaster. Domestic violence will soar, relationships that would have been formed will never happen, people will get very damaged by a year. 2/3 months is just about do-able, but its not societally sustainable beyond that proportionate to the medical need.
Its not going to take a year IMO. Especially once there's an antibody test and you know you're immune that will be a game changer.
Oh I agree, Im expecting societal lock down to last closer to 2 months than the 3/4 generally, my description of life in lock down longer than that was in response to the suggestion that the PM was saying 12 weeks simply to get people to comply and that it would last longer.
(FWIW) I think he said it not out of either science or Machiavellian tactics, but because he is an optimist who things have always worked out for regardless of how badly he f***s up.
Agreed. I think a 6-8 week lockdown is likely, followed by a slow ramp up subsequently. Together with the AB test (which looks, according to Hancock, that it might be here by the end of next week) and better therapeutics we can get out of this. But I wish Johnson hadn't stated numbers - it's very foolish since there is such a huge range of uncertainty.
I disagree, all other nations have been quoting numbers but things like "15 days" that they then expand etc
Our government in saying "hopefully 12 weeks" is being infinitely more honest.
That takes us back to what the strategic objective is.
A lockdown to wait for the cavalry (vaccine or cure) could be very long indeed.
A lockdown to try and drive the virus back to near extinction, so that 'identify and trace' plus restrictions/checks on international travel keep it at bay, could be mid range. If new clusters emerge then it may need to be repeated.
A lockdown to see how the NHS copes with the first wave, aiming in the longer term for a herd immunity approach, would be shorter, but would certainly need to be repeated, multiple times, over a long period. And with longer confinement for the vulnerable.
If there is a big "iceberg" element and this lockdown flattens the curve then that could see the virus burn itself out before too long.
Anyway, this was sent to me by in response to my recent article. 58 with a successful business established for 25 years advising companies in the food sector, with offices here and in Europe.
“My business earns 95% of its revenue from outside the UK, and because the panic and demand suppression is the same everywhere, our business has dropped off a cliff. Our customers in Paris, under lockdown, have disappeared. A big American customer cut their service in half overnight. Every customer project has been put on hold 'for the duration'.
In early April I will have to inject my own money into the business to keep paying the staff wages (I already cut my own salary to zero).
If it goes on into June then it's two people made redundant (both with mortgages to pay) and a 20% pay-cut for the survivors.
Continue to August and its curtains for us.
I re-mortgaged my house in the last financial crisis, as many business owners did, and used the money to keep staff on and pay their wages.
My business and life are debt-free and at my age I don't want to be taking on a load of bank debt with - as you correctly point out - no idea how/whether I will be able to repay it. The chancellor's bank guarantee is useless to me and most small businesses.
Mr Johnson's Titanic is steaming towards a huge iceberg. It's all calm on the surface, but there's an economic disaster unfolding under the surface which could sink him. Just today I have learned of four separate people I know whose businesses are folding in a month or two. That will be about 100 people losing their jobs.
Your grants suggestion is an excellent one. The PAYE system means that grants to cover staff salaries can easily be policed.
Quite where the chancellor thinks his VAT, PAYE and corporation tax revenue (which pays for the NHS) is going to come from if the economy craters I don't know.
I also happen to be one of the immuno-suppressed 'vulnerable' people that government policy is aiming to protect. I'd rather everyone went to work and we 'vulnerable' were locked up in Center Parcs than that we crater the economy and the lives of tens of millions.”
I quote agree, particularly the last bullet.
I can't sleep. My company just told me yesterday that any time I have to take off for essential childcare (we now have no choice) will be classed as unpaid leave. So my income is going to drop by 50%. Meanwhile, our nursery are insisting we pay full fees as normal so they can stay solvent and continue to pay their staff.
We are trapped in a pincer movement with no way out.
I am so sorry to hear that. Perhaps a quick email to your MP pointing out the problem and that if the government does not do something many many people are going to be in financial distress very soon.
Around here slots are currently available from April 2nd all day, and evening on April 1st, late night March 31st, which is not quite as bad as it sounds in some places.
IMO this is very regional, and the some media are being tosspots. London is a very local place.
That's pretty good. Waitrose here are booked through to late April already.
Like Tesco and Sainsburys, Waitrose has reserved the first hour after opening to the elderly and vulnerable. This appeared to work well this morning. Good to see shops organising themselves like this for the general good.
In interesting weather news, the latest ECMWF has a suggestion of snow for the East Coast of Britain during the final weekend of March. The previous forecast was nowhere near as cold, so the confidence in this is low, but it's a possibility.
Around here slots are currently available from April 2nd all day, and evening on April 1st, late night March 31st, which is not quite as bad as it sounds in some places.
IMO this is very regional, and the some media are being tosspots. London is a very local place.
That's pretty good. Waitrose here are booked through to late April already.
Like Tesco and Sainsburys, Waitrose has reserved the first hour after opening to the elderly and vulnerable. This appeared to work well this morning. Good to see shops organising themselves like this for the general good.
Sainsbury's did that here yesterday, and it was a disaster. All the oldies (and others) piled in at the same time. Car park was overflowing, shop was rammed and tempers were fraught. Hopefully, though, it will get better as it settles down and they don't all try to shop at once!
My laptop is constantly being logged out of PB this morning. It’s frustrating.
Anyway the key, as I and many others have been saying on here is to keep the income flowing and as many jobs as possible intact until the virus is over. Boris reckons we are 12 weeks from that. It should be possible for the government to pay everyone’s wages for that long. They are already paying the 40% in the public sector. They need to keep the tax base for the recovery.
At the moment even those who are still paid are not spending. Restaurants, hotels, holidays, cars, cinema, home improvements, nothing is going to happen until we can move about freely and without fear. But we will need all of those things in due course. More than ever in many cases.
Boris' 12 week reckoning didn't make it to the end of the news conference.
Boris has sensibly left the heavy lifting to the experts, perhaps he should engage an expert communicator to run the press conferences.
It’s true get compliance, not level with people.
If its 6 months or longer how feasible is an isolation plan in the first place? What stat.
i assume they are hoping it will only need to be 3 or 4 months but no doubt have plans for much longer. that will require horrendous enforcement methods imho.
In which cack to.
There are issues to the longer containment, but no need for your hyperbole. It takes long as it takes to do whatever it takes. The easing at the other end has got to be right as there won’t be a vaccination for all the most vulnerable people, though it’s right politicians lead us on believing magic immunity bullet coming soon at this stage, you would have to say the same in their position. Lead people on and not be straight with them.
No hyperbole in my post. A year of complete isolation for people on their own, or a year of being cooped up together with family for others will be a mental disaster. Domestic violence will soar, relationships that would have been formed will never happen, people will get very damaged by a year. 2/3 months is just about do-able, but its not societally sustainable beyond that proportionate to the medical need.
Its not going to take a year IMO. Especially once there's an antibody test and you know you're immune that will be a game changer.
Oh I agree, Im expecting societal lock down to last closer to 2 months than the 3/4 generally, my description of life in lock down longer than that was in response to the suggestion that the PM was saying 12 weeks simply to get people to comply and that it would last longer.
(FWIW) I think he said it not out of either science or Machiavellian tactics, but because he is an optimist who things have always worked out for regardless of how badly he f***s up.
Agreed. I think a 6-8 week lockdown is likely, followed by a slow ramp up subsequently. Together with the AB test (which looks, according to Hancock, that it might be here by the end of next week) and better therapeutics we can get out of this. But I wish Johnson hadn't stated numbers - it's very foolish since there is such a huge range of uncertainty.
I disagree, all other nations have been quoting numbers but things like "15 days" that they then expand etc
Our government in saying "hopefully 12 weeks" is being infinitely more honest.
That takes us back to what the strategic objective is.
A lockdown to wait for the cavalry (vaccine or cure) could be very long indeed.
A lockdown to try and drive the virus back to near extinction, so that 'identify and trace' plus restrictions/checks on international travel keep it at bay, could be mid range. If new clusters emerge then it may need to be repeated.
A lockdown to see how the NHS copes with the first wave, aiming in the longer term for a herd immunity approach, would be shorter, but would certainly need to be repeated, multiple times, over a long period. And with longer confinement for the vulnerable.
One strategic objective has to be to not cripple the UK economy for the next 10-20 years with debt and economic turmoil.
People will get desperate and probably decide to take their chances with the virus.
There's utter exasperation among teachers about the way the schools closure is being handled:
"This is how the government runs things...
Announce that all schools are closing but announce that some children - no-one knows who - will be still going to some school or another, in two days time.
Omit to tell anyone WHO that applies to then leave the announcement until the following day. Promise the information on that day.
Break their promise almost immediately - just about the only thing they've done in a timely fashion - and release it early in the morning on the day the school is closing!
We are now having a remote SLT meeting that started at 5:30 in the morning."
This after weeks of saying that schools wouldn't need to be closed for various bizarre reasons (children might not be major vectors; we need to develop herd-immunity). It's clear that, during those weeks, the government did not plan what any eventual closure would look like.
Unfortunately, with our partisan politics, generic Tory-bashing doesn't get distinguished from misdeeds which should make everyone furious.
We desperately need competence at the top.
This is absolutely true and it is why I was freaking out 6-8 weeks ago about this pandemic.
Over the past 8 weeks, the government spent its resources and time, such crucial time, talking about HS2, about a bridge between Scotland and Northern Ireland, about whether John Bercow should have peerage.
But planning for the closure of schools within 2-days? The most unprecedented thing to happen to the country since the second world war? No there was no planning for that at all. So now we have the most ludicrous scenario where schools are SHUT but they aren't actually. In some instances they will be 2/3rds full. With key front line workers? NO. With kids with 'needs' where the parents are sat at home doing nothing.
It is maddening. This virus exposes how our civil service and our government is totally rotten. You take an idea which sounds sensible on paper and then you mangle it through a hundred bureaucrats so it is totally worthless and actively harmful.
I will never vote in this country again. I will not endorse any part of the state. They are useless morons who have screwed this up and they should be punished for the rest of their days for it.
I can't sleep. My company just told me yesterday that any time I have to take off for essential childcare (we now have no choice) will be classed as unpaid leave. So my income is going to drop by 50%. Meanwhile, our nursery are insisting we pay full fees as normal so they can stay solvent and continue to pay their staff.
We are trapped in a pincer movement with no way out.
Why do you have to keep paying the nursery if you're at home looking after the kid?
My understanding on that is quite a lot of these contracts specify that if they are closed for an 'emergency' then you keep paying.
Of course, this anticipated that the emergency would be a water leak which would be cleared up in two or three days.
I would not pay anymore. If they threaten legal action, tell them good luck with getting a court case heard in the next six months, and good luck with them being able to justify throwing a family out on the street. And good luck with trying to do it anyway, as they won't exist in six weeks.
Fact is, NONE of these nurseries will be in any position to enforce payment.
I see in France if you want to go le footing, in typical French manner you now need to be measuring your distance and time in order to comply with the law.
It is on the irresponsible landlord, as the CMO and PM have made clear if people do not follow advice to act sensibly then yes lockdown will have to be enforced
The pub has 2 options: 1. Listen to the "CMO and PM [who] have made clear" that they should close their doors. With their zero income and continuing outgoings they can then apply for the government loan and be denied as a business who has zero income and continuing outgoings is not viable. Business closes. Everyone out of work. 2. Stay open as they have every right to do. Sell happy juice to people who have every right to want to drink happy juice. Stay trading. Keep employing people.
Clearly they should listen to HYUFD, go bankrupt and contribute to the growing mountain of unemployed.
Is HYUFD a sock-puppet for Iain Duncan Smith? Cooeee Iain!
The business loans are targeted precisely at those who will have to close at this time and can be secured against their assets. Had the government urged instant closure you would be whinging they had gone too far, had the government urged they stayed open you would be whinging they had not gone far enough
My laptop is constantly being logged out of PB this morning. It’s frustrating.
Anyway the key, as I and many others have been saying on here is to keep the income flowing and as many jobs as possible intact until the virus is over. Boris reckons we are 12 weeks from that. It should be possible for the government to pay everyone’s wages for that long. They are already paying the 40% in the public sector. They need to keep the tax base for the recovery.
At the moment even those who are still paid are not spending. Restaurants, hotels, holidays, cars, cinema, home improvements, nothing is going to happen until we can move about freely and without fear. But we will need all of those things in due course. More than ever in many cases.
Boris' 12 week reckoning didn't make it to the end of the news conference.
Boris has sensibly left the heavy lifting to the experts, perhaps he should engage an expert communicator to run the press conferences.
It’s true get compliance, not level with people.
If its 6 months or longer how feasible is an isolation plan in the first place? What stat.
i assume they are hoping it will only need to be 3 or 4 months but no doubt have plans for much longer. that will require horrendous enforcement methods imho.
In which cack to.
There are issues to the longer containment, but no need for your hyperbole. It takes long as it takes to do whatever it takes. The easing at the other end has got to be right as there won’t be a vaccination for all the most vulnerable people, though it’s right politicians lead us on believing magic immunity bullet coming soon at this stage, you would have to say the same in their position. Lead people on and not be straight with them.
No hyperbole in my post. A year of complete isolation for people on their own, or a year of being cooped up together with family for others will be a mental disaster. Domestic violence will soar, relationships that would have been formed will never happen, people will get very damaged by a year. 2/3 months is just about do-able, but its not societally sustainable beyond that proportionate to the medical need.
Its not going to take a year IMO. Especially once there's an antibody test and you know you're immune that will be a game changer.
Oh I agree, Im expecting societal lock down to last closer to 2 months than the 3/4 generally, my description of life in lock down longer than that was in response to the suggestion that the PM was saying 12 weeks simply to get people to comply and that it would last longer.
(FWIW) I think he said it not out of either science or Machiavellian tactics, but because he is an optimist who things have always worked out for regardless of how badly he f***s up.
Agreed. I think a 6-8 week lockdown is likely, followed by a slow ramp up subsequently. Together with the AB test (which looks, according to Hancock, that it might be here by the end of next week) and better therapeutics we can get out of this. But I wish Johnson hadn't stated numbers - it's very foolish since there is such a huge range of uncertainty.
I disagree, all other nations have been quoting numbers but things like "15 days" that they then expand etc
Our government in saying "hopefully 12 weeks" is being infinitely more honest.
That takes us back to what the strategic objective is.
A lockdown to wait for the cavalry (vaccine or cure) could be very long indeed.
A lockdown to try and drive the virus back to near extinction, so that 'identify and trace' plus restrictions/checks on international travel keep it at bay, could be mid range. If new clusters emerge then it may need to be repeated.
A lockdown to see how the NHS copes with the first wave, aiming in the longer term for a herd immunity approach, would be shorter, but would certainly need to be repeated, multiple times, over a long period. And with longer confinement for the vulnerable.
One strategic objective has to be to not cripple the UK economy for the next 10-20 years with debt and economic turmoil.
People will get desperate and probably decide to take their chances with the virus.
I was expecting the end of your last sentence to be "Labour" rather than "the virus".
My laptop is constantly being logged out of PB this morning. It’s frustrating.
Anyway the key, as I and many others have been saying on here is to keep the income flowing and as many jobs as possible intact until the virus is over. Boris reckons we are 12 weeks from that. It should be possible for the government to pay everyone’s wages for that long. They are already paying the 40% in the public sector. They need to keep the tax base for the recovery.
At the moment even those who are still paid are not spending. Restaurants, hotels, holidays, cars, cinema, home improvements, nothing is going to happen until we can move about freely and without fear. But we will need all of those things in due course. More than ever in many cases.
Boris' 12 week reckoning didn't make it to the end of the news conference.
Boris has sensibly left the heavy lifting to the experts, perhaps he should engage an expert communicator to run the press conferences.
It’s true get compliance, not level with people.
If its 6 months or longer how feasible is an isolation plan in the first place? What stat.
i assume they are hoping it will only need to be 3 or 4 months but no doubt have plans for much longer. that will require horrendous enforcement methods imho.
In which cack to.
There are issues to the longer containment, but no need for your hyperbole. It takes long as it takes to do whatever it takes. The easing at the other end has got to be right as there won’t be a vaccination for all the most vulnerable people, though it’s right politicians lead us on believing magic immunity bullet coming soon at this stage, you would have to say the same in their position. Lead people on and not be straight with them.
No hyperbole in my post. A year of complete isolation for people on their own, or a year of being cooped up together with family for others will be a mental disaster. Domestic violence will soar, relationships that would have been formed will never happen, people will get very damaged by a year. 2/3 months is just about do-able, but its not societally sustainable beyond that proportionate to the medical need.
Its not going to take a year IMO. Especially once there's an antibody test and you know you're immune that will be a game changer.
Oh I agree, Im expecting societal lock down to last closer to 2 months than the 3/4 generally, my description of life in lock down longer than that was in response to the suggestion that the PM was saying 12 weeks simply to get people to comply and that it would last longer.
(FWIW) I think he said it not out of either science or Machiavellian tactics, but because he is an optimist who things have always worked out for regardless of how badly he f***s up.
Agreed. I think a 6-8 week lockdown is likely, followed by a slow ramp up subsequently. Together with the AB test (which looks, according to Hancock, that it might be here by the end of next week) and better therapeutics we can get out of this. But I wish Johnson hadn't stated numbers - it's very foolish since there is such a huge range of uncertainty.
I disagree, all other nations have been quoting numbers but things like "15 days" that they then expand etc
Our government in saying "hopefully 12 weeks" is being infinitely more honest.
That takes us back to what the strategic objective is.
A lockdown to wait for the cavalry (vaccine or cure) could be very long indeed.
A lockdown to try and drive the virus back to near extinction, so that 'identify and trace' plus restrictions/checks on international travel keep it at bay, could be mid range. If new clusters emerge then it may need to be repeated.
A lockdown to see how the NHS copes with the first wave, aiming in the longer term for a herd immunity approach, would be shorter, but would certainly need to be repeated, multiple times, over a long period. And with longer confinement for the vulnerable.
One strategic objective has to be to not cripple the UK economy for the next 10-20 years with debt and economic turmoil.
People will get desperate and probably decide to take their chances with the virus.
Indeed and with taxes so high after the crisis there will be no prospect of growth for a generation
My laptop is constantly being logged out of PB this morning. It’s frustrating.
Anyway the key, as I and many others have been saying on here is to keep the income flowing and as many jobs as possible intact until the virus is over. Boris reckons we are 12 weeks from that. It should be possible for the government to pay everyone’s wages for that long. They are already paying the 40% in the public sector. They need to keep the tax base for the recovery.
At the moment even those who are still paid are not spending. Restaurants, hotels, holidays, cars, cinema, home improvements, nothing is going to happen until we can move about freely and without fear. But we will need all of those things in due course. More than ever in many cases.
Boris' 12 week reckoning didn't make it to the end of the news conference.
Boris has sensibly left the heavy lifting to the experts, perhaps he should engage an expert communicator to run the press conferences.
It’s true get compliance, not level with people.
If its 6 months or longer how feasible is an isolation plan in the first place? What stat.
i assume they are hoping it will only need to be 3 or 4 months but no doubt have plans for much longer. that will require horrendous enforcement methods imho.
In which cack to.
There are issues to the longer containment, but no need for your hyperbole. It takes long as it takes to do whatever it takes. The easing at the other end has got to be right as there won’t be a vaccination for all the most vulnerable people, though it’s right politicians lead us on believing magic immunity bullet coming soon at this stage, you would have to say the same in their position. Lead people on and not be straight with them.
No hyperbole in my post. A year of complete isolation for people on their own, or a year of being cooped up together with family for others will be a mental disaster. Domestic violence will soar, relationships that would have been formed will never happen, people will get very damaged by a year. 2/3 months is just about do-able, but its not societally sustainable beyond that proportionate to the medical need.
Its not going to take a year IMO. Especially once there's an antibody test and you know you're immune that will be a game changer.
Oh I agree, Im expecting societal lock down to last closer to 2 months than the 3/4 generally, my description of life in lock down longer than that was in response to the suggestion that the PM was saying 12 weeks simply to get people to comply and that it would last longer.
(FWIW) I think he said it not out of either science or Machiavellian tactics, but because he is an optimist who things have always worked out for regardless of how badly he f***s up.
Agreed. I think a 6-8 week lockdown is likely, followed by a slow ramp up subsequently. Together with the AB test (which looks, according to Hancock, that it might be here by the end of next week) and better therapeutics we can get out of this. But I wish Johnson hadn't stated numbers - it's very foolish since there is such a huge range of uncertainty.
I disagree, all other nations have been quoting numbers but things like "15 days" that they then expand etc
Our government in saying "hopefully 12 weeks" is being infinitely more honest.
That takes us back to what the strategic objective is.
A lockdown to wait for the cavalry (vaccine or cure) could be very long indeed.
A lockdown to try and drive the virus back to near extinction, so that 'identify and trace' plus restrictions/checks on international travel keep it at bay, could be mid range. If new clusters emerge then it may need to be repeated.
A lockdown to see how the NHS copes with the first wave, aiming in the longer term for a herd immunity approach, would be shorter, but would certainly need to be repeated, multiple times, over a long period. And with longer confinement for the vulnerable.
One strategic objective has to be to not cripple the UK economy for the next 10-20 years with debt and economic turmoil.
People will get desperate and probably decide to take their chances with the virus.
Indeed and with taxes so high after the crisis there will be no prospect of growth for a generation
Well there’s be next to zero growth my entire adult life so far, what would be the difference?
I'm not too bothered about the pubs being open. Everyone has to make their own decisions, whether distancing, isolating, or complete lockdown. I appreciate that this means the disease will spread faster, but it is at different stages, and there are different levels of risk, all over the country. It's unlikely to be as risky in the village pub at Crinkly-Bottom-On-The-Wold as it is in a packed bar in London, where the health service is also more challenged. Just warning people rather than shutting people down allows these micro-decisions to be made, and allows differing levels of observance throughout the country. It's a pragmatic British fudge, it fully satisfies nobody but is hopefully survivable for most.
I keep making this point but it is not really a question of anyone judging their own risks. The pub goer may be relatively young and healthy and at very low risk to the virus. The same does not apply to everyone the pub goer meets. To put it in stark terms, as Boris did yesterday, the more people brave the risks of the virus (which may indeed be low for them) the more vulnerable people are going to die. It really is that simple. People have to stop being selfish about this and acknowledge the knock on consequences of their actions.
A vulnerable person shouldn't be interacting with anyone whose Corona status is unknown in a manner that could lead to infection. For the record, I am wfh and not going to pubs and restaurants.
My laptop is constantly being logged out of PB this morning. It’s frustrating.
Anyway the key, as I and many others have been saying on here is to keep the income flowing and as many jobs as possible intact until the virus is over. Boris reckons we are 12 weeks from that. It should be possible for the government to pay everyone’s wages for that long. They are already paying the 40% in the public sector. They need to keep the tax base for the recovery.
At the moment even those who are still paid are not spending. Restaurants, hotels, holidays, cars, cinema, home improvements, nothing is going to happen until we can move about freely and without fear. But we will need all of those things in due course. More than ever in many cases.
Boris' 12 week reckoning didn't make it to the end of the news conference.
Boris has sensibly left the heavy lifting to the experts, perhaps he should engage an expert communicator to run the press conferences.
It’s true get compliance, not level with people.
If its 6 months or longer how feasible is an isolation plan in the first place? What stat.
i assume they are hoping it will only need to be 3 or 4 months but no doubt have plans for much longer. that will require horrendous enforcement methods imho.
In which cack to.
There are issues to the longer containment, but no need for your hyperbole. It takes long as it takes to do whatever it takes. The easing at the other end has got to be right as there won’t be a vaccination for all the most vulnerable people, though it’s right politicians lead us on believing magic immunity bullet coming soon at this stage, you would have to say the same in their position. Lead people on and not be straight with them.
No hyperbole in my post. A year of complete isolation for people on their own, or a year of being cooped up together with family for others will be a mental disaster. Domestic violence will soar, relationships that would have been formed will never happen, people will get very damaged by a year. 2/3 months is just about do-able, but its not societally sustainable beyond that proportionate to the medical need.
Its not going to take a year IMO. Especially once there's an antibody test and you know you're immune that will be a game changer.
Oh I agree, Im expecting societal lock down to last closer to 2 months than the 3/4 generally, my description of life in lock down longer than that was in response to the suggestion that the PM was saying 12 weeks simply to get people to comply and that it would last longer.
(FWIW) I think he said it not out of either science or Machiavellian tactics, but because he is an optimist who things have always worked out for regardless of how badly he f***s up.
Agreed. I think a 6-8 week lockdown is likely, followed by a slow ramp up subsequently. Together with the AB test (which looks, according to Hancock, that it might be here by the end of next week) and better therapeutics we can get out of this. But I wish Johnson hadn't stated numbers - it's very foolish since there is such a huge range of uncertainty.
I disagree, all other nations have been quoting numbers but things like "15 days" that they then expand etc
Our government in saying "hopefully 12 weeks" is being infinitely more honest.
That takes us back to what the strategic objective is.
A lockdown to wait for the cavalry (vaccine or cure) could be very long indeed.
A lockdown to try and drive the virus back to near extinction, so that 'identify and trace' plus restrictions/checks on international travel keep it at bay, could be mid range. If new clusters emerge then it may need to be repeated.
A lockdown to see how the NHS copes with the first wave, aiming in the longer term for a herd immunity approach, would be shorter, but would certainly need to be repeated, multiple times, over a long period. And with longer confinement for the vulnerable.
One strategic objective has to be to not cripple the UK economy for the next 10-20 years with debt and economic turmoil.
People will get desperate and probably decide to take their chances with the virus.
Indeed and with taxes so high after the crisis there will be no prospect of growth for a generation
I agree.
There seem to be a lot of calls to try to use taxpayers money to keep the economy preserved as how it was in February this year indefinitely. But that world has gone, probably for good.
Businesses will go bust, write-downs will happen, rents will fall, house prices will fall and eventually after this is all over recovery will begin to take place without too much government debt.
I am against saddling the young generations with more debt to preserve the wealth of older business and property owners (as has been done since 2008).
I'm not too bothered about the pubs being open. Everyone has to make their own decisions, whether distancing, isolating, or complete lockdown. I appreciate that this means the disease will spread faster, but it is at different stages, and there are different levels of risk, all over the country. It's unlikely to be as risky in the village pub at Crinkly-Bottom-On-The-Wold as it is in a packed bar in London, where the health service is also more challenged. Just warning people rather than shutting people down allows these micro-decisions to be made, and allows differing levels of observance throughout the country. It's a pragmatic British fudge, it fully satisfies nobody but is hopefully survivable for most.
I keep making this point but it is not really a question of anyone judging their own risks. The pub goer may be relatively young and healthy and at very low risk to the virus. The same does not apply to everyone the pub goer meets. To put it in stark terms, as Boris did yesterday, the more people brave the risks of the virus (which may indeed be low for them) the more vulnerable people are going to die. It really is that simple. People have to stop being selfish about this and acknowledge the knock on consequences of their actions.
As said below, you cant blame businesses for wanting to hang onto some custom.
The risks will depend on how busy the pub is, their hygiene, and separation arrangements. I doubt the risks of popping in for a pint at the corner table are significantly different from those BigG will face when he goes down the chemist.
We need to stop the transmission of this through society before the NHS is overwhelmed and many people die unnecessarily early. The evidence is that partial lockdowns do not work. Italy is a good example of the tragic consequences of such a policy as is Spain. Both are now moving onto firmer measures. The reason that they do not work is because people are neither qualified or capable of assessing the risks you describe in any material sense. You simply don't take the risk at all for a period of weeks.
The consequences for the pub are of course disastrous. That is where the government must act and act fast. Loans are not going to cut it. They need grants to stay afloat and to pay the staff who have no work to do. This is incredibly urgent.
YouTube has followed Netflix’s lead in reducing video quality across Europe, according to a Reuters report, to help the continent’s internet service providers cope with the increased usage as social distancing continues.
All YouTube videos will now play in standard definition by default for viewers in the EU, a move which should substantially reduce the bandwidth used by visitors to the Google-owned website.
This is outrageous.....the picture will look crap on my massive 4k tv !!!
There's utter exasperation among teachers about the way the schools closure is being handled:
"This is how the government runs things...
Announce that all schools are closing but announce that some children - no-one knows who - will be still going to some school or another, in two days time.
Omit to tell anyone WHO that applies to then leave the announcement until the following day. Promise the information on that day.
Break their promise almost immediately - just about the only thing they've done in a timely fashion - and release it early in the morning on the day the school is closing!
We are now having a remote SLT meeting that started at 5:30 in the morning."
This after weeks of saying that schools wouldn't need to be closed for various bizarre reasons (children might not be major vectors; we need to develop herd-immunity). It's clear that, during those weeks, the government did not plan what any eventual closure would look like.
Unfortunately, with our partisan politics, generic Tory-bashing doesn't get distinguished from misdeeds which should make everyone furious.
We desperately need competence at the top.
This is absolutely true and it is why I was freaking out 6-8 weeks ago about this pandemic.
Over the past 8 weeks, the government spent its resources and time, such crucial time, talking about HS2, about a bridge between Scotland and Northern Ireland, about whether John Bercow should have peerage.
But planning for the closure of schools within 2-days? The most unprecedented thing to happen to the country since the second world war? No there was no planning for that at all. So now we have the most ludicrous scenario where schools are SHUT but they aren't actually. In some instances they will be 2/3rds full. With key front line workers? NO. With kids with 'needs' where the parents are sat at home doing nothing.
It is maddening. This virus exposes how our civil service and our government is totally rotten. You take an idea which sounds sensible on paper and then you mangle it through a hundred bureaucrats so it is totally worthless and actively harmful.
I will never vote in this country again. I will not endorse any part of the state. They are useless morons who have screwed this up and they should be punished for the rest of their days for it.
Two months ago China was in the infant stages of considering a lockdown. One month ago, it was just becoming apparent that Italy had a localised cluster. The general contingency playbook that the government expected to deploy for a normal pandemic has been ripped up by this. I want the government to fill the gaps in an appropriate order and at pace, but I think the total avoidance of any confusion is a high bar to set in the circumstances.
Around here slots are currently available from April 2nd all day, and evening on April 1st, late night March 31st, which is not quite as bad as it sounds in some places.
IMO this is very regional, and the some media are being tosspots. London is a very local place.
That's pretty good. Waitrose here are booked through to late April already.
Like Tesco and Sainsburys, Waitrose has reserved the first hour after opening to the elderly and vulnerable. This appeared to work well this morning. Good to see shops organising themselves like this for the general good.
Sainsbury's did that here yesterday, and it was a disaster. All the oldies (and others) piled in at the same time. Car park was overflowing, shop was rammed and tempers were fraught. Hopefully, though, it will get better as it settles down and they don't all try to shop at once!
ASDA was fine this morning and just been told local Tesco is opening an hour early PURELY FOR NHS STAFF.
Around here slots are currently available from April 2nd all day, and evening on April 1st, late night March 31st, which is not quite as bad as it sounds in some places.
IMO this is very regional, and the some media are being tosspots. London is a very local place.
That's pretty good. Waitrose here are booked through to late April already.
Like Tesco and Sainsburys, Waitrose has reserved the first hour after opening to the elderly and vulnerable. This appeared to work well this morning. Good to see shops organising themselves like this for the general good.
Sainsbury's did that here yesterday, and it was a disaster. All the oldies (and others) piled in at the same time. Car park was overflowing, shop was rammed and tempers were fraught. Hopefully, though, it will get better as it settles down and they don't all try to shop at once!
If someone has to away from all social contact, how do they get deliveries of food if delivery slots are booked up 3 weeks in advance? How do those needing washing and lifting in and out of bed etc avoid all social contact?
I wish the government would think through some of the practicalities and engage brain before opening mouth.
There should be extra capacity coming alongside - eg Morrisons are hiring 3k+ new people. That *could* be reserved.
Or most will have friends and neighbours etc.
Despite being quite isolated for the last few years as a part time carer until Christmas, then ill for weeks, I already have several offers.
Or some are already geared up - I readjusted all my quarterly orders 2-3 weeks ago, so the actual number may be less. I will struggle mainly for milk and fresh veg.
Personally, I think it may also calm down a little once the panic-shoppers realise that there is no shortage.
More difficult for people people really urbanised or really ruralised, perhaps - but there are still things like farm shops in many places which are less heavily trafficked therefore less risky.
1.4 million seems quite a low number - that looks like the core of the core, cancer patients, organ transplants etc. It may have Type I diabetics in it (400k), but certainly not Type IIs - unless it is people who have been operated on for complications.
Problem we are finding is that because we have never needed to use a delivery service from a supermarket up to now none of them seem to be taking on new customers and if we do find one they probably won't give us a slot till the middle of April! So although we are 70 (just) we are still nipping into shops early and getting what we need. We don't have young relatives nearby to do it for us and our neighbours are pretty much of a similar age.
My boss has done absolutely nothing at our office in response to this virus. Not even a single email. He's actually managed to do less than nothing. He's failed to pay for the cesspool to be emptied so has essentially created an open sewer in the carpark. This would be a disgusting biohazard at the best of times, and right now is an abomination. (Perhaps I should be grateful that he hasn't repeated his trick from the last time he couldn't afford the visit from the "stool bus" and ordered someone to pump and spray the faecally contaminated water over the fence onto the railway line behind the office.)
His pig ignorant refusal to consider having staff work at home is apparently driven by his desire for "data protection". I use the quotes because he plainly has absolutely no idea what it means. I believe he said "I don't want my data being sprayed around from all over the country. Data protection innit." Seemingly unaware that if any of his staff wanted to break the law and "spray" data, they could do it from their desks.
Following some unrelated abuse to me on Monday, and his aggressive reaction to another member of staff asking him on Wednesday what his plan was, I decided that I needed to prepare everyone to work from home asap, without letting him know. I made sure all staff had what they needed at home to be able to set up their phones and PCs and ordered from BT the (free) power supply cables for the phones.
I was in our insurance broker department talking to the manager of it when the boss (also business owner) saw me and shouted at me to "get back to your fucking desk and do some fucking work". I told him that I couldn't do my job while I was having to do his, and had made arrangements for everyone to work at home. This made him fly into a rage and he aggressively ordered me to get to his office. He ordered his yes-man friend, employed it seems just as someone he can talk to and have follow him into "meetings".
He yelled at me "how fucking dare you fucking talk to my staff without my permission. Who the fuck do you think you are?". I replied that I was the only person in his office acting responsibly and worrying about the welfare of his staff. He then ordered me to "fuck off home for the rest of the day, I don't want to see your fucking face". I left, just grabbing my bag and a couple of bits off my desk with him marching closely and intimidatingly behind me.
I then engaged in some well earned lunchtime drinking, which basically finished the day in productive terms for me (although I did manage to walk to the supermarket for more booze and some food, and then make a lovely prawn curry for dinner!). I got a text message later in the afternoon from the yes-man, shortly after my work email password had been changed, telling me not to come in until Monday. I also got calls from a couple of colleagues who let me know that the boss had gone around the office informing everyone that I'd been suspended - he hadn't actually told me this, I don't think "fuck off home" counts as a formal notification of suspension.
Yesterday I spoke to ACAS to get some advice. I told them all of the above and advised them that I no longer wanted to work for the man, so would mind being fired as long as with a settlement. They advised me to reply to yes-man in the form of a complaint, or complaints, about the boss's actions, both his aggressive bullying of me, and his dereliction of his duty to prioritise the welfare of his staff.
I've done this and just sent it, and am now waiting for his reply. Oh, and I also added that I won't be in on Monday as I'm now following government advice and self isolating due to my emphysema. I'm now thinking what to cook tonight.. Will be hard to match the rather splendid (IIDSSM) bolognese calzones I made last night!
I've been away from all that for some time, but, even if she's not entitled to JSA (contributions based), she should get JSA (income based) unless either a) she's living with a partner who's earning or b) she has sufficient savings. If she's just living with her parents that was never a factor.
He yelled at me "how fucking dare you fucking talk to my staff without my permission. Who the fuck do you think you are?". I replied that I was the only person in his office acting responsibly and worrying about the welfare of his staff. He then ordered me to "fuck off home for the rest of the day, I don't want to see your fucking face". I left, just grabbing my bag and a couple of bits off my desk with him marching closely and intimidatingly behind me.
I then engaged in some well earned lunchtime drinking, which basically finished the day in productive terms for me (although I did manage to walk to the supermarket for more booze and some food, and then make a lovely prawn curry for dinner!). I got a text message later in the afternoon from the yes-man, shortly after my work email password had been changed, telling me not to come in until Monday. I also got calls from a couple of colleagues who let me know that the boss had gone around the office informing everyone that I'd been suspended - he hadn't actually told me this, I don't think "fuck off home" counts as a formal notification of suspension.
Yesterday I spoke to ACAS to get some advice. I told them all of the above and advised them that I no longer wanted to work for the man, so would mind being fired as long as with a settlement. They advised me to reply to yes-man in the form of a complaint, or complaints, about the boss's actions, both his aggressive bullying of me, and his dereliction of his duty to prioritise the welfare of his staff.
I've done this and just sent it, and am now waiting for his reply. Oh, and I also added that I won't be in on Monday as I'm now following government advice and self isolating due to my emphysema. I'm now thinking what to cook tonight.. Will be hard to match the rather splendid (IIDSSM) bolognese calzones I made last night!
My laptop is constantly being logged out of PB this morning. It’s frustrating.
Anyway the key, as I and many others have been saying on here is to keep the income flowing and as many jobs as possible intact until the virus is over. Boris reckons we are 12 weeks from that. It should be possible for the government to pay everyone’s wages for that long. They are already paying the 40% in the public sector. They need to keep the tax base for the recovery.
At the moment even those who are still paid are not spending. Restaurants, hotels, holidays, cars, cinema, home improvements, nothing is going to happen until we can move about freely and without fear. But we will need all of those things in due course. More than ever in many cases.
Boris' 12 week reckoning didn't make it to the end of the news conference.
Boris has sensibly left the heavy lifting to the experts, perhaps he should engage an expert communicator to run the press conferences.
It’s true get compliance, not level with people.
If its 6 months or longer how feasible is an isolation plan in the first place? What stat.
i assume they are hoping it will only need to be 3 or 4 months but no doubt have plans for much longer. that will require horrendous enforcement methods imho.
In which cack to.
Its not going to take a year IMO. Especially once there's an antibody test and you know you're immune that will be a game changer.
Agreed. I think a 6-8 week lockdown is likely, followed by a slow ramp up subsequently. Together with the AB test (which looks, according to Hancock, that it might be here by the end of next week) and better therapeutics we can get out of this. But I wish Johnson hadn't stated numbers - it's very foolish since there is such a huge range of uncertainty.
I disagree, all other nations have been quoting numbers but things like "15 days" that they then expand etc
Our government in saying "hopefully 12 weeks" is being infinitely more honest.
That takes us back to what the strategic objective is.
A lockdown to wait for the cavalry (vaccine or cure) could be very long indeed.
A lockdown to try and drive the virus back to near extinction, so that 'identify and trace' plus restrictions/checks on international travel keep it at bay, could be mid range. If new clusters emerge then it may need to be repeated.
A lockdown to see how the NHS copes with the first wave, aiming in the longer term for a herd immunity approach, would be shorter, but would certainly need to be repeated, multiple times, over a long period. And with longer confinement for the vulnerable.
One strategic objective has to be to not cripple the UK economy for the next 10-20 years with debt and economic turmoil.
People will get desperate and probably decide to take their chances with the virus.
Indeed and with taxes so high after the crisis there will be no prospect of growth for a generation
Taxes won't need to be high. The government debt to the Bank of England can be simply written off. The interest paid by government to the BoE is remitted back to the Treasury in any case. This is about 25% of total national debt. Any extra government borrowings for this crisis will be from the BoE who will simply electronically print it. It can then be written off. There really is a Magic Money Tree.
The extra money available should drive demand and underpin supply and help economic recovery. The last thing required is more general taxation.
The downside is that eventually supply might not be able to meet the extra demand and there will be inflation. The overshoot will require higher interest rates and possibly higher taxation to damp demand back again. But that is for the future.
Because of the long term threat of inflation caused by worldwide printing of money I think the long bull market in bonds (i.e. miniscule yields) is at last coming to an end.
He yelled at me "how fucking dare you fucking talk to my staff without my permission. Who the fuck do you think you are?". I replied that I was the only person in his office acting responsibly and worrying about the welfare of his staff. He then ordered me to "fuck off home for the rest of the day, I don't want to see your fucking face". I left, just grabbing my bag and a couple of bits off my desk with him marching closely and intimidatingly behind me.
I then engaged in some well earned lunchtime drinking, which basically finished the day in productive terms for me (although I did manage to walk to the supermarket for more booze and some food, and then make a lovely prawn curry for dinner!). I got a text message later in the afternoon from the yes-man, shortly after my work email password had been changed, telling me not to come in until Monday. I also got calls from a couple of colleagues who let me know that the boss had gone around the office informing everyone that I'd been suspended - he hadn't actually told me this, I don't think "fuck off home" counts as a formal notification of suspension.
Yesterday I spoke to ACAS to get some advice. I told them all of the above and advised them that I no longer wanted to work for the man, so would mind being fired as long as with a settlement. They advised me to reply to yes-man in the form of a complaint, or complaints, about the boss's actions, both his aggressive bullying of me, and his dereliction of his duty to prioritise the welfare of his staff.
I've done this and just sent it, and am now waiting for his reply. Oh, and I also added that I won't be in on Monday as I'm now following government advice and self isolating due to my emphysema. I'm now thinking what to cook tonight.. Will be hard to match the rather splendid (IIDSSM) bolognese calzones I made last night!
Do you have two years service? You probably have a constructive dismissal claim and I would try and argue that your various disclosures to him were protected under the whistleblowing legislation
He yelled at me "how fucking dare you fucking talk to my staff without my permission. Who the fuck do you think you are?". I replied that I was the only person in his office acting responsibly and worrying about the welfare of his staff. He then ordered me to "fuck off home for the rest of the day, I don't want to see your fucking face". I left, just grabbing my bag and a couple of bits off my desk with him marching closely and intimidatingly behind me.
I then engaged in some well earned lunchtime drinking, which basically finished the day in productive terms for me (although I did manage to walk to the supermarket for more booze and some food, and then make a lovely prawn curry for dinner!). I got a text message later in the afternoon from the yes-man, shortly after my work email password had been changed, telling me not to come in until Monday. I also got calls from a couple of colleagues who let me know that the boss had gone around the office informing everyone that I'd been suspended - he hadn't actually told me this, I don't think "fuck off home" counts as a formal notification of suspension.
Yesterday I spoke to ACAS to get some advice. I told them all of the above and advised them that I no longer wanted to work for the man, so would mind being fired as long as with a settlement. They advised me to reply to yes-man in the form of a complaint, or complaints, about the boss's actions, both his aggressive bullying of me, and his dereliction of his duty to prioritise the welfare of his staff.
I've done this and just sent it, and am now waiting for his reply. Oh, and I also added that I won't be in on Monday as I'm now following government advice and self isolating due to my emphysema. I'm now thinking what to cook tonight.. Will be hard to match the rather splendid (IIDSSM) bolognese calzones I made last night!
I'm not too bothered about the pubs being open. Everyone has to make their own decisions, whether distancing, isolating, or complete lockdown. I appreciate that this means the disease will spread faster, but it is at different stages, and there are different levels of risk, all over the country. It's unlikely to be as risky in the village pub at Crinkly-Bottom-On-The-Wold as it is in a packed bar in London, where the health service is also more challenged. Just warning people rather than shutting people down allows these micro-decisions to be made, and allows differing levels of observance throughout the country. It's a pragmatic British fudge, it fully satisfies nobody but is hopefully survivable for most.
I keep making this point but it is not really a question of anyone judging their own risks. The pub goer may be relatively young and healthy and at very low risk to the virus. The same does not apply to everyone the pub goer meets. To put it in stark terms, as Boris did yesterday, the more people brave the risks of the virus (which may indeed be low for them) the more vulnerable people are going to die. It really is that simple. People have to stop being selfish about this and acknowledge the knock on consequences of their actions.
It should be made clear to those who don't care and carry on going to pubs or similar "By going to the pub, you are putting your grandma's life at risk"
He yelled at me "how fucking dare you fucking talk to my staff without my permission. Who the fuck do you think you are?". I replied that I was the only person in his office acting responsibly and worrying about the welfare of his staff. He then ordered me to "fuck off home for the rest of the day, I don't want to see your fucking face". I left, just grabbing my bag and a couple of bits off my desk with him marching closely and intimidatingly behind me.
I then engaged in some well earned lunchtime drinking, which basically finished the day in productive terms for me (although I did manage to walk to the supermarket for more booze and some food, and then make a lovely prawn curry for dinner!). I got a text message later in the afternoon from the yes-man, shortly after my work email password had been changed, telling me not to come in until Monday. I also got calls from a couple of colleagues who let me know that the boss had gone around the office informing everyone that I'd been suspended - he hadn't actually told me this, I don't think "fuck off home" counts as a formal notification of suspension.
Yesterday I spoke to ACAS to get some advice. I told them all of the above and advised them that I no longer wanted to work for the man, so would mind being fired as long as with a settlement. They advised me to reply to yes-man in the form of a complaint, or complaints, about the boss's actions, both his aggressive bullying of me, and his dereliction of his duty to prioritise the welfare of his staff.
I've done this and just sent it, and am now waiting for his reply. Oh, and I also added that I won't be in on Monday as I'm now following government advice and self isolating due to my emphysema. I'm now thinking what to cook tonight.. Will be hard to match the rather splendid (IIDSSM) bolognese calzones I made last night!
Do you have two years service? You probably have a constructive dismissal claim and I would try and argue that your various disclosures to him were protected under the whistleblowing legislation
Yes. And I know I've put up with him for far too long.
My laptop is constantly being logged out of PB this morning. It’s frustrating.
Anyway the key, as I and many others have been saying on here is to keep the income flowing and as many jobs as possible intact until the virus is over. Boris reckons we are 12 weeks from that. It should be possible for the government to pay everyone’s wages for that long. They are already paying the 40% in the public sector. They need to keep the tax base for the recovery.
At the moment even those who are still paid are not spending. Restaurants, hotels, holidays, cars, cinema, home improvements, nothing is going to happen until we can move about freely and without fear. But we will need all of those things in due course. More than ever in many cases.
Boris' 12 week reckoning didn't make it to the end of the news conference.
Boris has sensibly left the heavy lifting to the experts, perhaps he should engage an expert communicator to run the press conferences.
It’s true get compliance, not level with people.
If its 6 months or longer how feasible is an isolation plan in the first place? What stat.
i assume they are hoping it will only need to be 3 or 4 months but no doubt have plans for much longer. that will require horrendous enforcement methods imho.
In which cack to.
There are issues to the longer containment, but no need for your hyperbole. It takes long as it takes to do whatever it takes. The easing at the other end has got to be right as there won’t be a vaccination for all the most vulnerable people, though it’s right politicians lead us on believing magic immunity bullet coming soon at this stage, you would have to say the same in their position. Lead people on and not be straight with them.
No hyperbole in my post. A year of complete isolation for people on their own, or a year of being cooped up together with family for others will be a mental disaster. Domestic violence will soar, relationships that would have been formed will never happen, people will get very damaged by a year. 2/3 months is just about do-able, but its not societally sustainable beyond that proportionate to the medical need.
Its not going to take a year IMO. Especially once there's an antibody test and you know you're immune that will be a game changer.
Oh I agree, Im expecting societal lock down to last closer to 2 months than the 3/4 generally, my description of life in lock down longer than that was in response to the suggestion that the PM was saying 12 weeks simply to get people to comply and that it would last longer.
(FWIW) I think he said it not out of either science or Machiavellian tactics, but because he is an optimist who things have always worked out for regardless of how badly he f***s up.
Agreed. I think a 6-8 week lockdown is likely, followed by a slow ramp up subsequently. Together with the AB test (which looks, according to Hancock, that it might be here by the end of next week) and better therapeutics we can get out of this. But I wish Johnson hadn't stated numbers - it's very foolish since there is such a huge range of uncertainty.
I disagree, all other nations have been quoting numbers but things like "15 days" that they then expand etc
Our government in saying "hopefully 12 weeks" is being infinitely more honest.
That takes us back to what the strategic objective is.
A lockdown to wait for the cavalry (vaccine or cure) could be very long indeed.
A lockdown to try and drive the virus back to near extinction, so that 'identify and trace' plus restrictions/checks on international travel keep it at bay, could be mid range. If new clusters emerge then it may need to be repeated.
A lockdown to see how the NHS copes with the first wave, aiming in the longer term for a herd immunity approach, would be shorter, but would certainly need to be repeated, multiple times, over a long period. And with longer confinement for the vulnerable.
One strategic objective has to be to not cripple the UK economy for the next 10-20 years with debt and economic turmoil.
People will get desperate and probably decide to take their chances with the virus.
I was expecting the end of your last sentence to be "Labour" rather than "the virus".
Labour's chances at the next election haven't looked better for years.
I've been away from all that for some time, but, even if she's not entitled to JSA (contributions based), she should get JSA (income based) unless either a) she's living with a partner who's earning or b) she has sufficient savings. If she's just living with her parents that was never a factor.
Universal Credit now, JSA is for those who have contributed enough or with a disability
I can't sleep. My company just told me yesterday that any time I have to take off for essential childcare (we now have no choice) will be classed as unpaid leave. So my income is going to drop by 50%. Meanwhile, our nursery are insisting we pay full fees as normal so they can stay solvent and continue to pay their staff.
We are trapped in a pincer movement with no way out.
Why do you have to keep paying the nursery if you're at home looking after the kid?
My understanding on that is quite a lot of these contracts specify that if they are closed for an 'emergency' then you keep paying.
Of course, this anticipated that the emergency would be a water leak which would be cleared up in two or three days.
I would not pay anymore. If they threaten legal action, tell them good luck with getting a court case heard in the next six months, and good luck with them being able to justify throwing a family out on the street. And good luck with trying to do it anyway, as they won't exist in six weeks.
Fact is, NONE of these nurseries will be in any position to enforce payment.
That's my view.
That said I want to support them as best I can. So I will still pay fees proportionate to the % of my full salary I receive.
I can't sleep. My company just told me yesterday that any time I have to take off for essential childcare (we now have no choice) will be classed as unpaid leave. So my income is going to drop by 50%. Meanwhile, our nursery are insisting we pay full fees as normal so they can stay solvent and continue to pay their staff.
We are trapped in a pincer movement with no way out.
Why do you have to keep paying the nursery if you're at home looking after the kid?
My understanding on that is quite a lot of these contracts specify that if they are closed for an 'emergency' then you keep paying.
Of course, this anticipated that the emergency would be a water leak which would be cleared up in two or three days.
I would not pay anymore. If they threaten legal action, tell them good luck with getting a court case heard in the next six months, and good luck with them being able to justify throwing a family out on the street. And good luck with trying to do it anyway, as they won't exist in six weeks.
Fact is, NONE of these nurseries will be in any position to enforce payment.
That's my view.
That said I want to support them as best I can. So I will still pay fees proportionate to the % of my full salary I receive.
My laptop is constantly being logged out of PB this morning. It’s frustrating.
Anyway the key, as I and many others have been saying on here is to keep the income flowing and as many jobs as possible intact until the virus is over. Boris reckons we are 12 weeks from that. It should be possible for the government to pay everyone’s wages for that long. They are already paying the 40% in the public sector. They need to keep the tax base for the recovery.
At the moment even those who are still paid are not spending. Restaurants, hotels, holidays, cars, cinema, home improvements, nothing is going to happen until we can move about freely and without fear. But we will need all of those things in due course. More than ever in many cases.
Boris' 12 week reckoning didn't make it to the end of the news conference.
Boris has sensibly left the heavy lifting to the experts, perhaps he should engage an expert communicator to run the press conferences.
It’s true get compliance, not level with people.
If its 6 months or longer how feasible is an isolation plan in the first place? What stat.
i assume they are hoping it will only need to be 3 or 4 months but no doubt have plans for much longer. that will require horrendous enforcement methods imho.
In which cack to.
There are issues to the longer containment, but no need for your hyperbole. It takes long as it takes to do whatever it takes. The easing at the other end has got to be right as there won’t be a vaccination for all the most vulnerable people, though it’s right politicians lead us on believing magic immunity bullet coming soon at this stage, you would have to say the same in their position. Lead people on and not be straight with them.
No hyperbole in my post. A year of complete isolation for people on their own, or a year of being cooped up together with family for others will be a mental disaster. Domestic violence will soar, relationships that would have been formed will never happen, people will get very damaged by a year. 2/3 months is just about do-able, but its not societally sustainable beyond that proportionate to the medical need.
Its not going to take a year IMO. Especially once there's an antibody test and you know you're immune that will be a game changer.
Oh I agree, Im expecting societal lock down to last closer to 2 months than the 3/4 generally, my description of life in lock down longer than that was in response to the suggestion that the PM was saying 12 weeks simply to get people to comply and that it would last longer.
(FWIW) I think he said it not out of either science or Machiavellian tactics, but because he is an optimist who things have always worked out for regardless of how badly he f***s up.
Agreed. I think a 6-8 week lockdown is likely, followed by a slow ramp up subsequently. Together with the AB test (which looks, according to Hancock, that it might be here by the end of next week) and better therapeutics we can get out of this. But I wish Johnson hadn't stated numbers - it's very foolish since there is such a huge range of uncertainty.
I disagree, all other nations have been quoting numbers but things like "15 days" that they then expand etc
Our government in saying "hopefully 12 weeks" is being infinitely more honest.
That takes us back to what the strategic objective is.
A lockdown to wait for the cavalry (vaccine or cure) could be very long indeed.
A lockdown to try and drive the virus back to near extinction, so that 'identify and trace' plus restrictions/checks on international travel keep it at bay, could be mid range. If new clusters emerge then it may need to be repeated.
A lockdown to see how the NHS copes with the first wave, aiming in the longer term for a herd immunity approach, would be shorter, but would certainly need to be repeated, multiple times, over a long period. And with longer confinement for the vulnerable.
One strategic objective has to be to not cripple the UK economy for the next 10-20 years with debt and economic turmoil.
People will get desperate and probably decide to take their chances with the virus.
Indeed and with taxes so high after the crisis there will be no prospect of growth for a generation
My laptop is constantly being logged out of PB this morning. It’s frustrating.
Anyway the key, as I and many others have been saying on here is to keep the income flowing and as many jobs as possible intact until the virus is over. Boris reckons we are 12 weeks from that. It should be possible for the government to pay everyone’s wages for that long. They are already paying the 40% in the public sector. They need to keep the tax base for the recovery.
At the moment even those who are still paid are not spending. Restaurants, hotels, holidays, cars, cinema, home improvements, nothing is going to happen until we can move about freely and without fear. But we will need all of those things in due course. More than ever in many cases.
Boris' 12 week reckoning didn't make it to the end of the news conference.
Boris has sensibly left the heavy lifting to the experts, perhaps he should engage an expert communicator to run the press conferences.
It’s true get compliance, not level with people.
If its 6 months or longer how feasible is an isolation plan in the first place? What stat.
i assume they are hoping it will only need to be 3 or 4 months but no doubt have plans for much longer. that will require horrendous enforcement methods imho.
In which cack to.
Its not going to take a year IMO. Especially once there's an antibody test and you know you're immune that will be a game changer.
Agreed. I think a 6-8 week lockdown is likely, followed by a slow ramp up subsequently. Together with the AB test (which looks, according to Hancock, that it might be here by the end of next week) and better therapeutics we can get out of this. But I wish Johnson hadn't stated numbers - it's very foolish since there is such a huge range of uncertainty.
I disagree, all other nations have been quoting numbers but things like "15 days" that they then expand etc
Our government in saying "hopefully 12 weeks" is being infinitely more honest.
That takes us back to what the strategic objective is.
A lockdown to wait for the cavalry (vaccine or cure) could be very long indeed.
A lockdown to try and drive the virus back to near extinction, so that 'identify and trace' plus restrictions/checks on international travel keep it at bay, could be mid range. If new clusters emerge then it may need to be repeated.
A lockdown to see how the NHS copes with the first wave, aiming in the longer term for a herd immunity approach, would be shorter, but would certainly need to be repeated, multiple times, over a long period. And with longer confinement for the vulnerable.
One strategic objective has to be to not cripple the UK economy for the next 10-20 years with debt and economic turmoil.
People will get desperate and probably decide to take their chances with the virus.
Indeed and with taxes so high after the crisis there will be no prospect of growth for a generation
Taxes won't need to be high. The government debt to the Bank of England can be simply written off. The interest paid by government to the BoE is remitted back to the Treasury in any case. This is about 25% of total national debt. Any extra government borrowings for this crisis will be from the BoE who will simply electronically print it. It can then be written off. There really is a Magic Money Tree.
The extra money available should drive demand and underpin supply and help economic recovery. The last thing required is more general taxation.
The downside is that eventually supply might not be able to meet the extra demand and there will be inflation. The overshoot will require higher interest rates and possibly higher taxation to damp demand back again. But that is for the future.
Because of the long term threat of inflation caused by worldwide printing of money I think the long bull market in bonds (i.e. miniscule yields) is at last coming to an end.
So in the future all printing excess money will do is as you say lead to higher inflation and in turn higher interest rates and higher taxes anyway unless a surge in production and supply
There's utter exasperation among teachers about the way the schools closure is being handled:
"This is how the government runs things...
Announce that all schools are closing but announce that some children - no-one knows who - will be still going to some school or another, in two days time.
Omit to tell anyone WHO that applies to then leave the announcement until the following day. Promise the information on that day.
Break their promise almost immediately - just about the only thing they've done in a timely fashion - and release it early in the morning on the day the school is closing!
We are now having a remote SLT meeting that started at 5:30 in the morning."
This after weeks of saying that schools wouldn't need to be closed for various bizarre reasons (children might not be major vectors; we need to develop herd-immunity). It's clear that, during those weeks, the government did not plan what any eventual closure would look like.
Unfortunately, with our partisan politics, generic Tory-bashing doesn't get distinguished from misdeeds which should make everyone furious.
We desperately need competence at the top.
This is absolutely true and it is why I was freaking out 6-8 weeks ago about this pandemic.
Over the past 8 weeks, the government spent its resources and time, such crucial time, talking about HS2, about a bridge between Scotland and Northern Ireland, about whether John Bercow should have peerage.
But planning for the closure of schools within 2-days? The most unprecedented thing to happen to the country since the second world war? No there was no planning for that at all. So now we have the most ludicrous scenario where schools are SHUT but they aren't actually. In some instances they will be 2/3rds full. With key front line workers? NO. With kids with 'needs' where the parents are sat at home doing nothing.
It is maddening. This virus exposes how our civil service and our government is totally rotten. You take an idea which sounds sensible on paper and then you mangle it through a hundred bureaucrats so it is totally worthless and actively harmful.
I will never vote in this country again. I will not endorse any part of the state. They are useless morons who have screwed this up and they should be punished for the rest of their days for it.
Two months ago China was in the infant stages of considering a lockdown. One month ago, it was just becoming apparent that Italy had a localised cluster. The general contingency playbook that the government expected to deploy for a normal pandemic has been ripped up by this. I want the government to fill the gaps in an appropriate order and at pace, but I think the total avoidance of any confusion is a high bar to set in the circumstances.
Erm sorry but don't patronise me about confusion being a high bar to avoid or about the timelines of this pandemic. I have been following it in REAL TIME since the first week in January.
Do you think closing down all schools and exams with two days notice and NO PLANNING is acceptable? Do you think having a list of key workers that schools should be accommodating for, without them being first defined, is acceptable?
There will always be an excuse but over time they will look increasingly laughable.
The truth of the matter is that the government has been asleep at the wheel. The pandemic plan wasn't fit for purpose, each and every step they take is a half-way house that is the worst of all worlds. They have failed to prepare, delayed and prevaricated and have now dumped a load of shite on the heads of every person in the country through their ineptitude.
The former Labour MP for Lincoln shared some sage advice for her successor last night, in two now-deleted tweets. Karen Lee, who served as the city’s MP until 2019, suggested organising a ‘two-hour public engagement event’ in ‘a public venue with a large capacity’, for local people to gather together in one room and hear from local authorities.
My boss has done absolutely nothing at our office in response to this virus. Not even a single email. He's actually managed to do less than nothing. He's failed to pay for the cesspool to be emptied so has essentially created an open sewer in the carpark. This would be a disgusting biohazard at the best of times, and right now is an abomination. (Perhaps I should be grateful that he hasn't repeated his trick from the last time he couldn't afford the visit from the "stool bus" and ordered someone to pump and spray the faecally contaminated water over the fence onto the railway line behind the office.)
His pig ignorant refusal to consider having staff work at home is apparently driven by his desire for "data protection". I use the quotes because he plainly has absolutely no idea what it means. I believe he said "I don't want my data being sprayed around from all over the country. Data protection innit." Seemingly unaware that if any of his staff wanted to break the law and "spray" data, they could do it from their desks.
Following some unrelated abuse to me on Monday, and his aggressive reaction to another member of staff asking him on Wednesday what his plan was, I decided that I needed to prepare everyone to work from home asap, without letting him know. I made sure all staff had what they needed at home to be able to set up their phones and PCs and ordered from BT the (free) power supply cables for the phones.
I was in our insurance broker department talking to the manager of it when the boss (also business owner) saw me and shouted at me to "get back to your fucking desk and do some fucking work". I told him that I couldn't do my job while I was having to do his, and had made arrangements for everyone to work at home. This made him fly into a rage and he aggressively ordered me to get to his office. He ordered his yes-man friend, employed it seems just as someone he can talk to and have follow him into "meetings".
tbc...
Blimey that's horrible. Congrats for having the guts to do the right thing. I hope it works out well for you and for the people you were protecting, and that your boss gets his comeuppance.
I've been away from all that for some time, but, even if she's not entitled to JSA (contributions based), she should get JSA (income based) unless either a) she's living with a partner who's earning or b) she has sufficient savings. If she's just living with her parents that was never a factor.
Universal Credit now, JSA is for those who have contributed enough or with a disability
My laptop is constantly being logged out of PB this morning. It’s frustrating.
Anyway the key, as I and many others have been saying on here is to keep the income flowing and as many jobs as possible intact until the virus is over. Boris reckons we are 12 weeks from that. It should be possible for the government to pay everyone’s wages for that long. They are already paying the 40% in the public sector. They need to keep the tax base for the recovery.
At the moment even those who are still paid are not spending. Restaurants, hotels, holidays, cars, cinema, home improvements, nothing is going to happen until we can move about freely and without fear. But we will need all of those things in due course. More than ever in many cases.
Boris' 12 week reckoning didn't make it to the end of the news conference.
Boris has sensibly left the heavy lifting to the experts, perhaps he should engage an expert communicator to run the press conferences.
It’s true get compliance, not level with people.
If its 6 months or longer how feasible is an isolation plan in the first place? What stat.
i assume they are hoping it will only need to be 3 or 4 months but no doubt have plans for much longer. that will require horrendous enforcement methods imho.
In which cack to.
Its not going to take a year IMO. Especially once there's an antibody test and you know you're immune that will be a game changer.
Agreed. I think a 6-8 week lockdown is likely, followed by a slow ramp up subsequently. Together with the AB test (which looks, according to Hancock, that it might be here by the end of next week) and better therapeutics we can get out of this. But I wish Johnson hadn't stated numbers - it's very foolish since there is such a huge range of uncertainty.
I disagree, all other nations have been quoting numbers but things like "15 days" that they then expand etc
Our government in saying "hopefully 12 weeks" is being infinitely more honest.
That takes us back to what the strategic objective is.
A lockdown to wait for the cavalry (vaccine or cure) could be very long indeed.
A lockdown to try and drive the virus back to near extinction, so that 'identify and trace' plus restrictions/checks on international travel keep it at bay, could be mid range. If new clusters emerge then it may need to be repeated.
A lockdown to see how the NHS copes with the first wave, aiming in the longer term for a herd immunity approach, would be shorter, but would certainly need to be repeated, multiple times, over a long period. And with longer confinement for the vulnerable.
One strategic objective has to be to not cripple the UK economy for the next 10-20 years with debt and economic turmoil.
People will get desperate and probably decide to take their chances with the virus.
Indeed and with taxes so high after the crisis there will be no prospect of growth for a generation
Taxes won't need to be high. The government debt to the Bank of England can be simply written off. The interest paid by government to the BoE is remitted back to the Treasury in any case. This is about 25% of total national debt. Any extra government borrowings for this crisis will be from the BoE who will simply electronically print it. It can then be written off. There really is a Magic Money Tree.
The extra money available should drive demand and underpin supply and help economic recovery. The last thing required is more general taxation.
The downside is that eventually supply might not be able to meet the extra demand and there will be inflation. The overshoot will require higher interest rates and possibly higher taxation to damp demand back again. But that is for the future.
Because of the long term threat of inflation caused by worldwide printing of money I think the long bull market in bonds (i.e. miniscule yields) is at last coming to an end.
So in the future all printing excess money will do is as you say lead to higher inflation and in turn higher interest rates and higher taxes anyway unless a surge in production and supply
In the future yes which is why you don't print excess money all the time.
In the present printing money will literally keep the economy on life support so it doesn't die.
My laptop is constantly being logged out of PB this morning. It’s frustrating.
Anyway the key, as I and many others have been saying on here is to keep the income flowing and as many jobs as possible intact until the virus is over. Boris reckons we are 12 weeks from that. It should be possible for the government to pay everyone’s wages for that long. They are already paying the 40% in the public sector. They need to keep the tax base for the recovery.
At the moment even those who are still paid are not spending. Restaurants, hotels, holidays, cars, cinema, home improvements, nothing is going to happen until we can move about freely and without fear. But we will need all of those things in due course. More than ever in many cases.
Boris' 12 week reckoning didn't make it to the end of the news conference.
Boris has sensibly left the heavy lifting to the experts, perhaps he should engage an expert communicator to run the press conferences.
It’s true get compliance, not level with people.
If its 6 months or longer how feasible is an isolation plan in the first place? What stat.
i assume they are hoping it will only need to be 3 or 4 months but no doubt have plans for much longer. that will require horrendous enforcement methods imho.
In which cack to.
Its not going to take a year IMO. Especially once there's an antibody test and you know you're immune that will be a game changer.
Agreed. I think a 6-8 week lockdown is likely, followed by a slow ramp up subsequently. Together with the AB test (which looks, according to Hancock, that it might be here by the end of next week) and better therapeutics we can get out of this. But I wish Johnson hadn't stated numbers - it's very foolish since there is such a huge range of uncertainty.
I disagree, all other nations have been quoting numbers but things like "15 days" that they then expand etc
Our government in saying "hopefully 12 weeks" is being infinitely more honest.
That takes us back to what the strategic objective is.
A lockdown to wait for the cavalry (vaccine or cure) could be very long indeed.
A lockdown to try and drive the virus back to near extinction, so that 'identify and trace' plus restrictions/checks on international travel keep it at bay, could be mid range. If new clusters emerge then it may need to be repeated.
A lockdown to see how the NHS copes with the first wave, aiming in the longer term for a herd immunity approach, would be shorter, but would certainly need to be repeated, multiple times, over a long period. And with longer confinement for the vulnerable.
One strategic objective has to be to not cripple the UK economy for the next 10-20 years with debt and economic turmoil.
People will get desperate and probably decide to take their chances with the virus.
Indeed and with taxes so high after the crisis there will be no prospect of growth for a generation
Taxes won't need to be high. The government debt to the Bank of England can be simply written off. The interest paid by government to the BoE is remitted back to the Treasury in any case. This is about 25% of total national debt. Any extra government borrowings for this crisis will be from the BoE who will simply electronically print it. It can then be written off. There really is a Magic Money Tree.
The extra money available should drive demand and underpin supply and help economic recovery. The last thing required is more general taxation.
The downside is that eventually supply might not be able to meet the extra demand and there will be inflation. The overshoot will require higher interest rates and possibly higher taxation to damp demand back again. But that is for the future.
Because of the long term threat of inflation caused by worldwide printing of money I think the long bull market in bonds (i.e. miniscule yields) is at last coming to an end.
So in the future all printing excess money will do is as you say lead to higher inflation and in turn higher interest rates and higher taxes anyway unless a surge in production and supply
The role of the BoE with monetary policy and CoE with fiscal policy is to balance supply and demand so that the economy expands at a sustainable rate of say 2%. You want to avoid wild deflationary or inflationary swings and you certainly don't want to end up like Zimbabwe.
I think some people (including MrsT) have this misguided idea that running government finances is like running household finances. It isn't at all. A government can print money, and indeed is duty bound to allow for the expansion of the economy. The National debt will continue to grow and that's a good thing as long as the interest payments are sustainable. If the interest is paid to the BoE it doesn't matter anyway as it is remitted back to the Treasury.
My laptop is constantly being logged out of PB this morning. It’s frustrating.
Anyway the key, as I and many others have been saying on here is to keep the income flowing and as many jobs as possible intact until the virus is over. Boris reckons we are 12 weeks from that. It should be possible for the government to pay everyone’s wages for that long. They are already paying the 40% in the public sector. They need to keep the tax base for the recovery.
At the moment even those who are still paid are not spending. Restaurants, hotels, holidays, cars, cinema, home improvements, nothing is going to happen until we can move about freely and without fear. But we will need all of those things in due course. More than ever in many cases.
Boris' 12 week reckoning didn't make it to the end of the news conference.
Boris has sensibly left the heavy lifting to the experts, perhaps he should engage an expert communicator to run the press conferences.
It’s true get compliance, not level with people.
If its 6 months or longer how feasible is an isolation plan in the first place? What stat.
i assume they are hoping it will only need to be 3 or 4 months but no doubt have plans for much longer. that will require horrendous enforcement methods imho.
In which cack to.
Its not going to take a year IMO. Especially once there's an antibody test and you know you're immune that will be a game changer.
Agreed. I think a 6-8 week lockdown is likely, followed by a slow ramp up subsequently. Together with the AB test (which looks, according to Hancock, that it might be here by the end of next week) and better therapeutics we can get out of this. But I wish Johnson hadn't stated numbers - it's very foolish since there is such a huge range of uncertainty.
I disagree, all other nations have been quoting numbers but things like "15 days" that they then expand etc
Our government in saying "hopefully 12 weeks" is being infinitely more honest.
That takes us back to what the strategic objective is.
A lockdown to wait for the cavalry (vaccine or cure) could be very long indeed.
A lockdown to try and drive the virus back to near extinction, so that 'identify and trace' plus restrictions/checks on international travel keep it at bay, could be mid range. If new clusters emerge then it may need to be repeated.
A lockdown to see how the NHS copes with the first wave, aiming in the longer term for a herd immunity approach, would be shorter, but would certainly need to be repeated, multiple times, over a long period. And with longer confinement for the vulnerable.
One strategic objective has to be to not cripple the UK economy for the next 10-20 years with debt and economic turmoil.
People will get desperate and probably decide to take their chances with the virus.
Indeed and with taxes so high after the crisis there will be no prospect of growth for a generation
Taxes won't need to be high. The government debt to the Bank of England can be simply written off. The interest paid by government to the BoE is remitted back to the Treasury in any case. This is about 25% of total national debt. Any extra government borrowings for this crisis will be from the BoE who will simply electronically print it. It can then be written off. There really is a Magic Money Tree.
The extra money available should drive demand and underpin supply and help economic recovery. The last thing required is more general taxation.
The downside is that eventually supply might not be able to meet the extra demand and there will be inflation. The overshoot will require higher interest rates and possibly higher taxation to damp demand back again. But that is for the future.
Because of the long term threat of inflation caused by worldwide printing of money I think the long bull market in bonds (i.e. miniscule yields) is at last coming to an end.
So in the future all printing excess money will do is as you say lead to higher inflation and in turn higher interest rates and higher taxes anyway unless a surge in production and supply
In the future yes which is why you don't print excess money all the time.
In the present printing money will literally keep the economy on life support so it doesn't die.
Wasting time, unfortunately. HYUFD doesn't understand, and he ignores what he doesn't understand. Which is why he keeps chirruping on about loans and about the importance of not spending too much.
I'm not too bothered about the pubs being open. Everyone has to make their own decisions, whether distancing, isolating, or complete lockdown. I appreciate that this means the disease will spread faster, but it is at different stages, and there are different levels of risk, all over the country. It's unlikely to be as risky in the village pub at Crinkly-Bottom-On-The-Wold as it is in a packed bar in London, where the health service is also more challenged. Just warning people rather than shutting people down allows these micro-decisions to be made, and allows differing levels of observance throughout the country. It's a pragmatic British fudge, it fully satisfies nobody but is hopefully survivable for most.
I keep making this point but it is not really a question of anyone judging their own risks. The pub goer may be relatively young and healthy and at very low risk to the virus. The same does not apply to everyone the pub goer meets. To put it in stark terms, as Boris did yesterday, the more people brave the risks of the virus (which may indeed be low for them) the more vulnerable people are going to die. It really is that simple. People have to stop being selfish about this and acknowledge the knock on consequences of their actions.
It should be made clear to those who don't care and carry on going to pubs or similar "By going to the pub, you are putting your grandma's life at risk"
There's utter exasperation among teachers about the way the schools closure is being handled:
"This is how the government runs things...
Announce that all schools are closing but announce that some children - no-one knows who - will be still going to some school or another, in two days time.
Omit to tell anyone WHO that applies to then leave the announcement until the following day. Promise the information on that day.
Break their promise almost immediately - just about the only thing they've done in a timely fashion - and release it early in the morning on the day the school is closing!
We are now having a remote SLT meeting that started at 5:30 in the morning."
This after weeks of saying that schools wouldn't need to be closed for various bizarre reasons (children might not be major vectors; we need to develop herd-immunity). It's clear that, during those weeks, the government did not plan what any eventual closure would look like.
Unfortunately, with our partisan politics, generic Tory-bashing doesn't get distinguished from misdeeds which should make everyone furious.
We desperately need competence at the top.
This is absolutely true and it is why I was freaking out 6-8 weeks ago about this pandemic.
Over the past 8 weeks, the government spent its resources and time, such crucial time, talking about HS2, about a bridge between Scotland and Northern Ireland, about whether John Bercow should have peerage.
But planning for the closure of schools within 2-days? The most unprecedented thing to happen to the country since the second world war? No there was no planning for that at all. So now we have the most ludicrous scenario where schools are SHUT but they aren't actually. In some instances they will be 2/3rds full. With key front line workers? NO. With kids with 'needs' where the parents are sat at home doing nothing.
It is maddening. This virus exposes how our civil service and our government is totally rotten. You take an idea which sounds sensible on paper and then you mangle it through a hundred bureaucrats so it is totally worthless and actively harmful.
I will never vote in this country again. I will not endorse any part of the state. They are useless morons who have screwed this up and they should be punished for the rest of their days for it.
Two months ago China was in the infant stages of considering a lockdown. One month ago, it was just becoming apparent that Italy had a localised cluster. The general contingency playbook that the government expected to deploy for a normal pandemic has been ripped up by this. I want the government to fill the gaps in an appropriate order and at pace, but I think the total avoidance of any confusion is a high bar to set in the circumstances.
Avoidance of any confusion would indeed be an unreasonably high bar to set, but nobody has set such a bar as far as I know.
A reasonable bar to set would be that, as closing schools became a serious option in other countries, they set about making a plan for how school closures would be implemented in the UK if necessary.
Yes, I support Labour but I'm really not bashing the government for the sake of it. Before the "herd-immunity" line came out last week, I was defending the UK government's approach on this issue in conversations with friends and relatives in Ireland. But since then, their lack of preparation has been brutally exposed.
Around here slots are currently available from April 2nd all day, and evening on April 1st, late night March 31st, which is not quite as bad as it sounds in some places.
IMO this is very regional, and the some media are being tosspots. London is a very local place.
That's pretty good. Waitrose here are booked through to late April already.
Like Tesco and Sainsburys, Waitrose has reserved the first hour after opening to the elderly and vulnerable. This appeared to work well this morning. Good to see shops organising themselves like this for the general good.
Sainsbury's did that here yesterday, and it was a disaster. All the oldies (and others) piled in at the same time. Car park was overflowing, shop was rammed and tempers were fraught. Hopefully, though, it will get better as it settles down and they don't all try to shop at once!
ASDA was fine this morning and just been told local Tesco is opening an hour early PURELY FOR NHS STAFF.
TrèsDifficile, sorry to hear of your twat of a boss. It does seem people are losing no opportunity to show themselves off as an asshole in the current situation.
A friend of mine was at the supermarket with his Mexican wife yesterday. A guy reached into their trolley and took out the pack of sea-salt. Looking at her, he said "This is for the British only...."
It was only down to the intervention of his wife that my mate didn't unleash the battering of a lifetime on the guy. He is still mighty riled up by it today.
WTF is it with these sports organisations? Play behind closed doors and get your biggest television ratings for a decade because there is nothing else to watch. How hard can it be to sterilise two snooker tables and a set of balls between matches? (OK there is a bit more to it than that but not a lot more.)
The former Labour MP for Lincoln shared some sage advice for her successor last night, in two now-deleted tweets. Karen Lee, who served as the city’s MP until 2019, suggested organising a ‘two-hour public engagement event’ in ‘a public venue with a large capacity’, for local people to gather together in one room and hear from local authorities.
Maybe she is going through the "Herd Immunity" phase of politics? She is about a week behind the govt. I think many of the General Public are about a week ahead of the govt.
They have just wasted the biggest opportunity in a generation to get snooker back on the map. They could easily have played it behind closed doors, in the way a number of bands are doing concerts.
I mean the whole sport is two blokes keeping metres apart from one another for hours on end.
The former Labour MP for Lincoln shared some sage advice for her successor last night, in two now-deleted tweets. Karen Lee, who served as the city’s MP until 2019, suggested organising a ‘two-hour public engagement event’ in ‘a public venue with a large capacity’, for local people to gather together in one room and hear from local authorities.
Maybe she is going through the "Herd Immunity" phase of politics? She is about a week behind the govt. I think many of the General Public are about a week ahead of the govt.
Is Simon Calder still advising everybody to take advantage of some really good bargains for travel?
Around 1.4 million vulnerable people in Britain will be told to self-isolate on Monday during the coronavirus outbreak, as the UK death toll hits 144.
Speaking today, Health Secretary Matt Hancock revealed that Brits classed as vulnerable will be contacted by the NHS and told what specific actions they need to take to protect themselves from the killer virus.
WTF is it with these sports organisations? Play behind closed doors and get your biggest television ratings for a decade because there is nothing else to watch. How hard can it be to sterilise two snooker tables and a set of balls between matches? (OK there is a bit more to it than that but not a lot more.)
The problem is mostly getting the millionaire players to want to turn up, not keeping it "safe". As you highlight it wont be risk free but clearly safer than working in a hospital or even a supermarket.
There's utter exasperation among teachers about the way the schools closure is being handled:
"This is how the government runs things...
Announce that all schools are closing but announce that some children - no-one knows who - will be still going to some school or another, in two days time.
Omit to tell anyone WHO that applies to then leave the announcement until the following day. Promise the information on that day.
Break their promise almost immediately - just about the only thing they've done in a timely fashion - and release it early in the morning on the day the school is closing!
We are now having a remote SLT meeting that started at 5:30 in the morning."
This after weeks of saying that schools wouldn't need to be closed for various bizarre reasons (children might not be major vectors; we need to develop herd-immunity). It's clear that, during those weeks, the government did not plan what any eventual closure would look like.
Unfortunately, with our partisan politics, generic Tory-bashing doesn't get distinguished from misdeeds which should make everyone furious.
We desperately need competence at the top.
This is absolutely true and it is why I was freaking out 6-8 weeks ago about this pandemic.
Over the past 8 weeks, the government spent its resources and time, such crucial time, talking about HS2, about a bridge between Scotland and Northern Ireland, about whether John Bercow should have peerage.
But planning for the closure of schools within 2-days? The most unprecedented thing to happen to the country since the second world war? No there was no planning for that at all. So now we have the most ludicrous scenario where schools are SHUT but they aren't actually. In some instances they will be 2/3rds full. With key front line workers? NO. With kids with 'needs' where the parents are sat at home doing nothing.
It is maddening. This virus exposes how our civil service and our government is totally rotten. You take an idea which sounds sensible on paper and then you mangle it through a hundred bureaucrats so it is totally worthless and actively harmful.
I will never vote in this country again. I will not endorse any part of the state. They are useless morons who have screwed this up and they should be punished for the rest of their days for it.
Two months ago China was in the infant stages of considering a lockdown. One month ago, it was just becoming apparent that Italy had a localised cluster. The general contingency playbook that the government expected to deploy for a normal pandemic has been ripped up by this. I want the government to fill the gaps in an appropriate order and at pace, but I think the total avoidance of any confusion is a high bar to set in the circumstances.
Erm sorry but don't patronise me about confusion being a high bar to avoid or about the timelines of this pandemic. I have been following it in REAL TIME since the first week in January.
Do you think closing down all schools and exams with two days notice and NO PLANNING is acceptable? Do you think having a list of key workers that schools should be accommodating for, without them being first defined, is acceptable?
There will always be an excuse but over time they will look increasingly laughable.
The truth of the matter is that the government has been asleep at the wheel. The pandemic plan wasn't fit for purpose, each and every step they take is a half-way house that is the worst of all worlds. They have failed to prepare, delayed and prevaricated and have now dumped a load of shite on the heads of every person in the country through their ineptitude.
You might not realise it yet but you will soon.
I shall judge accordingly: the fate of my parents, GCSEs, key worker lists, the businesses to whom I give my custom, all relevant, all with scope to go badly wrong. I'm simply reserving judgement and I'm not expecting a shiny, perfect response from government, just one that proves, in the final reckoning, to have served the UK well.
Just had a message from my wife. Her school really is carrying on as normal. "Business as usual" is how the Headmaster put it. Everyone from him down to the cleaners are to go in. What's the legal aspect to this? As it's private and the government is a bit wooly in its advice, is there anything to stop it?
TrèsDifficile, sorry to hear of your twat of a boss. It does seem people are losing no opportunity to show themselves off as an asshole in the current situation.
A friend of mine was at the supermarket with his Mexican wife yesterday. A guy reached into their trolley and took out the pack of sea-salt. Looking at her, he said "This is for the British only...."
It was only down to the intervention of his wife that my mate didn't unleash the battering of a lifetime on the guy. He is still mighty riled up by it today.
Wait. Are people panic-buying salt now?
But yes, there are a lot of people on short fuses. My impression these past few days is of a lot more police cars and ambulances whizzing round on blue lights during the evening.
Just had a message from my wife. Her school really is carrying on as normal. "Business as usual" is how the Headmaster put it. Everyone from him down to the cleaners are to go in. What's the legal aspect to this? As it's private and the government is a bit wooly in its advice, is there anything to stop it?
Boris said the government have legal powers to enforce this. I don't know if he was being Trumpian on this or not, or if it is in the bill they are currently passing?
Just had a message from my wife. Her school really is carrying on as normal. "Business as usual" is how the Headmaster put it. Everyone from him down to the cleaners are to go in. What's the legal aspect to this? As it's private and the government is a bit wooly in its advice, is there anything to stop it?
I thought if someone had underlying health issues that made them high risk they had to self isolate
As an example my son has kidney failure - he has been rung by his consultant and told to stay away from people - he cannot go to work
There's utter exasperation among teachers about the way the schools closure is being handled:
"This is how the government runs things...
Announce that all schools are closing but announce that some children - no-one knows who - will be still going to some school or another, in two days time.
Omit to tell anyone WHO that applies to then leave the announcement until the following day. Promise the information on that day.
Break their promise almost immediately - just about the only thing they've done in a timely fashion - and release it early in the morning on the day the school is closing!
We are now having a remote SLT meeting that started at 5:30 in the morning."
This after weeks of saying that schools wouldn't need to be closed for various bizarre reasons (children might not be major vectors; we need to develop herd-immunity). It's clear that, during those weeks, the government did not plan what any eventual closure would look like.
Unfortunately, with our partisan politics, generic Tory-bashing doesn't get distinguished from misdeeds which should make everyone furious.
We desperately need competence at the top.
This is absolutely true and it is why I was freaking out 6-8 weeks ago about this pandemic.
Over the past 8 weeks, the government spent its resources and time, such crucial time, talking about HS2, about a bridge between Scotland and Northern Ireland, about whether John Bercow should have peerage.
But planning for the closure of schools within 2-days? The most unprecedented thing to happen to the country since the second world war? No there was no planning for that at all. So now we have the most ludicrous scenario where schools are SHUT but they aren't actually. In some instances they will be 2/3rds full. With key front line workers? NO. With kids with 'needs' where the parents are sat at home doing nothing.
It is maddening. This virus exposes how our civil service and our government is totally rotten. You take an idea which sounds sensible on paper and then you mangle it through a hundred bureaucrats so it is totally worthless and actively harmful.
I will never vote in this country again. I will not endorse any part of the state. They are useless morons who have screwed this up and they should be punished for the rest of their days for it.
Two months ago China was in the infant stages of considering a lockdown. One month ago, it was just becoming apparent that Italy had a localised cluster. The general contingency playbook that the government expected to deploy for a normal pandemic has been ripped up by this. I want the government to fill the gaps in an appropriate order and at pace, but I think the total avoidance of any confusion is a high bar to set in the circumstances.
Erm sorry but don't patronise me about confusion being a high bar to avoid or about the timelines of this pandemic. I have been following it in REAL TIME since the first week in January.
Do you think closing down all schools and exams with two days notice and NO PLANNING is acceptable? Do you think having a list of key workers that schools should be accommodating for, without them being first defined, is acceptable?
There will always be an excuse but over time they will look increasingly laughable.
The truth of the matter is that the government has been asleep at the wheel. The pandemic plan wasn't fit for purpose, each and every step they take is a half-way house that is the worst of all worlds. They have failed to prepare, delayed and prevaricated and have now dumped a load of shite on the heads of every person in the country through their ineptitude.
You might not realise it yet but you will soon.
In the space of less than a week we've had people go from confidently telling us that closing the schools would be a terrible grave error as confirmed by the experts to saying there was nothing else to do but close the schools. In less than seven days.
Nothing in this pandemic has moved that fast to require that level of turn around.
He yelled at me "how fucking dare you fucking talk to my staff without my permission. Who the fuck do you think you are?". I replied that I was the only person in his office acting responsibly and worrying about the welfare of his staff. He then ordered me to "fuck off home for the rest of the day, I don't want to see your fucking face". I left, just grabbing my bag and a couple of bits off my desk with him marching closely and intimidatingly behind me.
I then engaged in some well earned lunchtime drinking, which basically finished the day in productive terms for me (although I did manage to walk to the supermarket for more booze and some food, and then make a lovely prawn curry for dinner!). I got a text message later in the afternoon from the yes-man, shortly after my work email password had been changed, telling me not to come in until Monday. I also got calls from a couple of colleagues who let me know that the boss had gone around the office informing everyone that I'd been suspended - he hadn't actually told me this, I don't think "fuck off home" counts as a formal notification of suspension.
Yesterday I spoke to ACAS to get some advice. I told them all of the above and advised them that I no longer wanted to work for the man, so would mind being fired as long as with a settlement. They advised me to reply to yes-man in the form of a complaint, or complaints, about the boss's actions, both his aggressive bullying of me, and his dereliction of his duty to prioritise the welfare of his staff.
I've done this and just sent it, and am now waiting for his reply. Oh, and I also added that I won't be in on Monday as I'm now following government advice and self isolating due to my emphysema. I'm now thinking what to cook tonight.. Will be hard to match the rather splendid (IIDSSM) bolognese calzones I made last night!
That's appalling behaviour.
It sounds like this is an open and shut case of constructive dismissal. I hope this moron gets what's coming to him.
The Health Minister said the government will have to employ 'draconian measures' - police and army social distancing enforcement - as they've done in Europe, if the public continues to go out and socialise while officials try to squash the spread of coronavirus.
He yelled at me "how fucking dare you fucking talk to my staff without my permission. Who the fuck do you think you are?". I replied that I was the only person in his office acting responsibly and worrying about the welfare of his staff. He then ordered me to "fuck off home for the rest of the day, I don't want to see your fucking face". I left, just grabbing my bag and a couple of bits off my desk with him marching closely and intimidatingly behind me.
I then engaged in some well earned lunchtime drinking, which basically finished the day in productive terms for me (although I did manage to walk to the supermarket for more booze and some food, and then make a lovely prawn curry for dinner!). I got a text message later in the afternoon from the yes-man, shortly after my work email password had been changed, telling me not to come in until Monday. I also got calls from a couple of colleagues who let me know that the boss had gone around the office informing everyone that I'd been suspended - he hadn't actually told me this, I don't think "fuck off home" counts as a formal notification of suspension.
Yesterday I spoke to ACAS to get some advice. I told them all of the above and advised them that I no longer wanted to work for the man, so would mind being fired as long as with a settlement. They advised me to reply to yes-man in the form of a complaint, or complaints, about the boss's actions, both his aggressive bullying of me, and his dereliction of his duty to prioritise the welfare of his staff.
I've done this and just sent it, and am now waiting for his reply. Oh, and I also added that I won't be in on Monday as I'm now following government advice and self isolating due to my emphysema. I'm now thinking what to cook tonight.. Will be hard to match the rather splendid (IIDSSM) bolognese calzones I made last night!
Sorry to hear this, but this is a strong case for constructive dismissal. His lawyers will tell him to avoid going to tribunal at all costs, I should expect.
My laptop is constantly being logged out of PB this morning. It’s frustrating.
Anyway the key, as I and many others have been saying on here is to keep the income flowing and as many jobs as possible intact until the virus is over. Boris reckons we are 12 weeks from that. It should be possible for the government to pay everyone’s wages for that long. They are already paying the 40% in the public sector. They need to keep the tax base for the recovery.
At the moment even those who are still paid are not spending. Restaurants, hotels, holidays, cars, cinema, home improvements, nothing is going to happen until we can move about freely and without fear. But we will need all of those things in due course. More than ever in many cases.
Boris' 12 week reckoning didn't make it to the end of the news conference.
Boris has sensibly left the heavy lifting to the experts, perhaps he should engage an expert communicator to run the press conferences.
"12 weeks" could mean: - 12 weeks to the peak (with however many extra weeks or months until its subsided enough to take down measures) - 12 weeks to the first peak, with however many cycles of on-and-off again needed to keep the figures down until we get a vaccine (median expectation 18 months; have seen people talking about as little as six months which would be great) - - 12 weeks until it's all over, tea and medals for all.
Sadly, although I think it's the feeling he wanted to give, the latter could well be least likely. Regardless, after three months of shutdown of the hospitality and airline sectors, they wouldn't be coming back unchanged. And those working in those sectors face a hellish time of uncertainty, regardless.
So, yes - he absolutely needs to do something for them.
on those subsequent peaks we arent using anything like the ICU capacity of the first. so couldnt you shorten the lockdown phases and extend the liberty phases to limit the financial damage. yes more people would get infected and more die but hopefully there will still be an ICU bed to give them the best chance.
Around 1.4 million vulnerable people in Britain will be told to self-isolate on Monday during the coronavirus outbreak, as the UK death toll hits 144.
Speaking today, Health Secretary Matt Hancock revealed that Brits classed as vulnerable will be contacted by the NHS and told what specific actions they need to take to protect themselves from the killer virus.
Mate Hancock, mate, already doing that mate. Worked out that partner coming out of ICU for respiratory problems that have not recovered 5 months later probably shouldn't be wandering down to the pub.
Comments
On the other hand, I can understand the thinking - boarding schools can run as quite closed communities, so with some small changes in behaviour they can run in effect an internal lockdown. How porous this will be is down to how the school is operating. If they're just running day holiday clubs, though, this seems ill advised.
I actually emailed my MP last night. I await what he has to say with interest.
https://www.twitter.com/QuimTorraiPla/status/1240702076503678976
People will get desperate and probably decide to take their chances with the virus.
Over the past 8 weeks, the government spent its resources and time, such crucial time, talking about HS2, about a bridge between Scotland and Northern Ireland, about whether John Bercow should have peerage.
But planning for the closure of schools within 2-days? The most unprecedented thing to happen to the country since the second world war? No there was no planning for that at all. So now we have the most ludicrous scenario where schools are SHUT but they aren't actually. In some instances they will be 2/3rds full. With key front line workers? NO. With kids with 'needs' where the parents are sat at home doing nothing.
It is maddening. This virus exposes how our civil service and our government is totally rotten. You take an idea which sounds sensible on paper and then you mangle it through a hundred bureaucrats so it is totally worthless and actively harmful.
I will never vote in this country again. I will not endorse any part of the state. They are useless morons who have screwed this up and they should be punished for the rest of their days for it.
Of course, this anticipated that the emergency would be a water leak which would be cleared up in two or three days.
I would not pay anymore. If they threaten legal action, tell them good luck with getting a court case heard in the next six months, and good luck with them being able to justify throwing a family out on the street. And good luck with trying to do it anyway, as they won't exist in six weeks.
Fact is, NONE of these nurseries will be in any position to enforce payment.
Had the government urged instant closure you would be whinging they had gone too far, had the government urged they stayed open you would be whinging they had not gone far enough
She's so close. So close.
Try listening to 'Handgel's Largo'
There seem to be a lot of calls to try to use taxpayers money to keep the economy preserved as how it was in February this year indefinitely. But that world has gone, probably for good.
Businesses will go bust, write-downs will happen, rents will fall, house prices will fall and eventually after this is all over recovery will begin to take place without too much government debt.
I am against saddling the young generations with more debt to preserve the wealth of older business and property owners (as has been done since 2008).
We need to stop the transmission of this through society before the NHS is overwhelmed and many people die unnecessarily early. The evidence is that partial lockdowns do not work. Italy is a good example of the tragic consequences of such a policy as is Spain. Both are now moving onto firmer measures. The reason that they do not work is because people are neither qualified or capable of assessing the risks you describe in any material sense. You simply don't take the risk at all for a period of weeks.
The consequences for the pub are of course disastrous. That is where the government must act and act fast. Loans are not going to cut it. They need grants to stay afloat and to pay the staff who have no work to do. This is incredibly urgent.
All YouTube videos will now play in standard definition by default for viewers in the EU, a move which should substantially reduce the bandwidth used by visitors to the Google-owned website.
This is outrageous.....the picture will look crap on my massive 4k tv !!!
19,980 +1,903 1,002 +171
Thats now - they keep updating through the day
My boss has done absolutely nothing at our office in response to this virus. Not even a single email. He's actually managed to do less than nothing. He's failed to pay for the cesspool to be emptied so has essentially created an open sewer in the carpark. This would be a disgusting biohazard at the best of times, and right now is an abomination. (Perhaps I should be grateful that he hasn't repeated his trick from the last time he couldn't afford the visit from the "stool bus" and ordered someone to pump and spray the faecally contaminated water over the fence onto the railway line behind the office.)
His pig ignorant refusal to consider having staff work at home is apparently driven by his desire for "data protection". I use the quotes because he plainly has absolutely no idea what it means. I believe he said "I don't want my data being sprayed around from all over the country. Data protection innit." Seemingly unaware that if any of his staff wanted to break the law and "spray" data, they could do it from their desks.
Following some unrelated abuse to me on Monday, and his aggressive reaction to another member of staff asking him on Wednesday what his plan was, I decided that I needed to prepare everyone to work from home asap, without letting him know. I made sure all staff had what they needed at home to be able to set up their phones and PCs and ordered from BT the (free) power supply cables for the phones.
I was in our insurance broker department talking to the manager of it when the boss (also business owner) saw me and shouted at me to "get back to your fucking desk and do some fucking work". I told him that I couldn't do my job while I was having to do his, and had made arrangements for everyone to work at home. This made him fly into a rage and he aggressively ordered me to get to his office. He ordered his yes-man friend, employed it seems just as someone he can talk to and have follow him into "meetings".
tbc...
I then engaged in some well earned lunchtime drinking, which basically finished the day in productive terms for me (although I did manage to walk to the supermarket for more booze and some food, and then make a lovely prawn curry for dinner!). I got a text message later in the afternoon from the yes-man, shortly after my work email password had been changed, telling me not to come in until Monday. I also got calls from a couple of colleagues who let me know that the boss had gone around the office informing everyone that I'd been suspended - he hadn't actually told me this, I don't think "fuck off home" counts as a formal notification of suspension.
Yesterday I spoke to ACAS to get some advice. I told them all of the above and advised them that I no longer wanted to work for the man, so would mind being fired as long as with a settlement. They advised me to reply to yes-man in the form of a complaint, or complaints, about the boss's actions, both his aggressive bullying of me, and his dereliction of his duty to prioritise the welfare of his staff.
I've done this and just sent it, and am now waiting for his reply. Oh, and I also added that I won't be in on Monday as I'm now following government advice and self isolating due to my emphysema. I'm now thinking what to cook tonight.. Will be hard to match the rather splendid (IIDSSM) bolognese calzones I made last night!
I hope you get a huge settlement from this oaf
https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1240828093855563776?s=20
The extra money available should drive demand and underpin supply and help economic recovery. The last thing required is more general taxation.
The downside is that eventually supply might not be able to meet the extra demand and there will be inflation. The overshoot will require higher interest rates and possibly higher taxation to damp demand back again. But that is for the future.
Because of the long term threat of inflation caused by worldwide printing of money I think the long bull market in bonds (i.e. miniscule yields) is at last coming to an end.
That said I want to support them as best I can. So I will still pay fees proportionate to the % of my full salary I receive.
Do you think closing down all schools and exams with two days notice and NO PLANNING is acceptable? Do you think having a list of key workers that schools should be accommodating for, without them being first defined, is acceptable?
There will always be an excuse but over time they will look increasingly laughable.
The truth of the matter is that the government has been asleep at the wheel. The pandemic plan wasn't fit for purpose, each and every step they take is a half-way house that is the worst of all worlds. They have failed to prepare, delayed and prevaricated and have now dumped a load of shite on the heads of every person in the country through their ineptitude.
You might not realise it yet but you will soon.
https://order-order.com/2020/03/20/former-lincoln-mps-questionable-coronavirus-advice/
And before being an MP she was a nurse....
"....more than 80 per cent of all people infected with the coronavirus are younger than 60. "
https://www.ft.com/content/c0755b30-69bb-11ea-800d-da70cff6e4d3?segmentid=acee4131-99c2-09d3-a635-873e61754ec6
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/snooker/51964887
In the present printing money will literally keep the economy on life support so it doesn't die.
I think some people (including MrsT) have this misguided idea that running government finances is like running household finances. It isn't at all. A government can print money, and indeed is duty bound to allow for the expansion of the economy. The National debt will continue to grow and that's a good thing as long as the interest payments are sustainable. If the interest is paid to the BoE it doesn't matter anyway as it is remitted back to the Treasury.
Which is why he keeps chirruping on about loans and about the importance of not spending too much.
A reasonable bar to set would be that, as closing schools became a serious option in other countries, they set about making a plan for how school closures would be implemented in the UK if necessary.
Yes, I support Labour but I'm really not bashing the government for the sake of it. Before the "herd-immunity" line came out last week, I was defending the UK government's approach on this issue in conversations with friends and relatives in Ireland. But since then, their lack of preparation has been brutally exposed.
Plenty of food there, btw.
A friend of mine was at the supermarket with his Mexican wife yesterday. A guy reached into their trolley and took out the pack of sea-salt. Looking at her, he said "This is for the British only...."
It was only down to the intervention of his wife that my mate didn't unleash the battering of a lifetime on the guy. He is still mighty riled up by it today.
I mean the whole sport is two blokes keeping metres apart from one another for hours on end.
Speaking today, Health Secretary Matt Hancock revealed that Brits classed as vulnerable will be contacted by the NHS and told what specific actions they need to take to protect themselves from the killer virus.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8134409/NHS-tell-1-4-million-Britons-self-isolate-Monday.html
What's the legal aspect to this? As it's private and the government is a bit wooly in its advice, is there anything to stop it?
But yes, there are a lot of people on short fuses. My impression these past few days is of a lot more police cars and ambulances whizzing round on blue lights during the evening.
As an example my son has kidney failure - he has been rung by his consultant and told to stay away from people - he cannot go to work
Nothing in this pandemic has moved that fast to require that level of turn around.
We had a recent Header opining that Trump would have won if not for the virus but was now going to lose.
I hold the opposite view. I think he was heading for defeat but this crisis gives him a good chance of winning. "War leader" and all that bollox.
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1240965216634109954
Its coming isn't it...
Sorry to hear this, but this is a strong case for constructive dismissal. His lawyers will tell him to avoid going to tribunal at all costs, I should expect.
Good luck with your claim.