What the virus crisis teaches us: 1. The world is complex and interconnected. 2. There are no easy solutions. 3. Experts are absolutely essential. 4. The market does not have all the answers. 5. The state is a force for good. 6. Populism is a fake prospectus. 7. Solidarity wins. Discuss.
What the virus crisis teaches us: 1. The world is complex and interconnected. 2. There are no easy solutions. 3. Experts are absolutely essential. 4. The market does not have all the answers. 5. The state is a force for good. 6. Populism is a fake prospectus. 7. Solidarity wins. Discuss.
Overall I agree - but there is a problem with number 3. Not all experts are equal. When it comes to economics and the social sciences there has been and is still enormous amounts of ground breaking work and achievements but they lack the emiricism and precision of the other sciences and are much more subject to a priori thinking. The balance of opinion v fact is much more 50/50. Hence in their case at least I'd probably add as with nmber 4 'but do not have all the answers'.
The Chinese state sought to cover up the virus at outbreak, and its charming measures have included welding people into their homes. If that state had instead cracked down on trading rare animals and wet markets, this pandemic may very well never have happened.
That state, yep. And others, too. But it’s only the state that can deal with the consequences.
If only the State had listened to your point 3.
We are where we are because the State felt threatened by experts.
I can see other countries refusing to do trade deals with China in future unless they seriously tighten up on animal welfare and hygiene.
Some of the weird shit has to go.
Let's hope they don't "discover" the cure for Covid-19 is rhino horn.....
The Chinese state sought to cover up the virus at outbreak, and its charming measures have included welding people into their homes. If that state had instead cracked down on trading rare animals and wet markets, this pandemic may very well never have happened.
That state, yep. And others, too. But it’s only the state that can deal with the consequences.
If as some claim the Chinese state caused coronavirus as it jumped from a research lab, is that a force for good ?
North Korea the statiest of statists claims it has zero CV19, should we all imitate their system ?
It's the shittest conspiracy theory ever.
"Let's design a virus that only kills the elderly and vulnerable and destroys the world economy! That will teach our enemies! Mwhahaha!"
That's not the contention, it's they were mucking around in a virology lab to see what developed and it escaped unintentionally. The paranoia is simply the internet getting in to gear
Yeah, and like all conspiracy theories it evolves to circumvent the most credible rebuttals.
The idea Chinese scientists just "muck around" in labs to see what viral weapons they can come up with is a lot of nonsense.
This has jumped over to humans from bats who are great incubators of viruses -and maybe pandolins - as has been well documented.
So what do research virologists do all day, then?
Plonking over-certainty on matters on which we can at best explore probabilities seems to be a thing for the PB righties.
What the virus crisis teaches us: 1. The world is complex and interconnected. 2. There are no easy solutions. 3. Experts are absolutely essential. 4. The market does not have all the answers. 5. The state is a force for good. 6. Populism is a fake prospectus. 7. Solidarity wins. Discuss.
The question is which experts to listen to.....
Thats easy, for many it seems its only the experts who agree with them that should be listened to.
(Guardian) Capital Economics have predicted that the UK economy could shrink by around 15% in the next three months, as Covid-19 triggers a “big recession”.
That would be a staggering drop in economic activity, inflicting real pain on millions of people.
For comparison, the UK shrank by 6% during and after the 2008 financial crisis -- and that was spread across more than a year.
In a new research note, chief economist Paul Dales says:
By asking the public to work from home where possible and to avoid pubs, theatres and other social venues, the UK government has implemented measures to contain the spread of the coronavirus that will significantly reduce economic activity. Lots of business activity will continue in some form, but lots won’t. Hiring and investment decisions will be put on ice or cancelled. Households won’t spend much on non-essential items.
With the peak of the virus yet to come, it is clear we are in the early days of a big recession. As such, our previous forecast that GDP would fall by 2.5% q/q in Q2 is no longer fit for purpose.
With large parts of the economy at a standstill - GDP could fall by between 10% and 20%, they believe (thus a 15% ‘split the difference’ estimate)
Faced with such an economic calamity, Capital Economics predict the government will need to act as a backstop for banks and other sectors to prevent a deeper and longer-lasting recession.
A rapid V-shaped recovery no longer looks likely, given the job losses and company failures we’re already seeing. So it could take until the end of 2021 for the economy to reach its current size again, Dales fears.
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
Boris Johnson probably devoted more attention to the Brexit 50p coin and the lack of the Westminster bongs than he did on how to prepare the country for the worst epidemic for 100 years that was already ravishing Asia.
"Probably" doing a lot of hard work, having to carry all your prejudices there.....
What the virus crisis teaches us: 1. The world is complex and interconnected. 2. There are no easy solutions. 3. Experts are absolutely essential. 4. The market does not have all the answers. 5. The state is a force for good. 6. Populism is a fake prospectus. 7. Solidarity wins. Discuss.
It's remarkable how current events seem to reinforce views you already hold. I'm shocked.
What have I got wrong?
1. Globalisation has led to efficiency but not resilience. We've chosen to be that interconnected. 2. Yes. Which goes against some of your other subsequent black & white points. 3. In their field of professional expertise, yes, but they can be subject to mistakes and incorrect assumptions just like the rest of us. Politicians decide. 4. The market works well. We have a mixed economy. Arguing against anarcho capitalism is a straw man. 5. Nation states are what matters when the chips are down. We're finding out there's no such thing as a citizen of the world. 6. Non sequitur. Although I note some of globalisation's greatest and richest proponents (Branson) are the first to put out the begging bowl. 7. National solidarity and neighborliness is what this crisis is bringing out. See Italians singing their anthem and waving flags out of windows. And others are a bit selfish. It's a bit like WW2 in civilian spirit.
So you accept my basic parameters. That makes for a much more productive discussion.
It's at times like this I'm glad to be Indian. We bulk buy as a rule and we went to Costco for essentials a couple of months before all of this started. Honestly, I don't understand people who don't bulk buy for basic items and canned goods. I got a year's worth of bog rolls, kitchen towels, facial tissues, wipes, soap, detergent, dishwasher tablets, hand wash for not very much money. Also stocked up on canned tomatoes, kidney beans, chick peas, various types of pasta, herbs and spices.
It's not because I predicted this kind of bullshit would happen, it's just 30-40% cheaper to shop in this manner.
Where the @£$% does one store a years supply of bog rolls in a two bed flat?
What the virus crisis teaches us: 1. The world is complex and interconnected. 2. There are no easy solutions. 3. Experts are absolutely essential. 4. The market does not have all the answers. 5. The state is a force for good. 6. Populism is a fake prospectus. 7. Solidarity wins. Discuss.
It's not one that I like, because it goes against all my political instincts, but, 8. The vast majority of the benefits of travel accrue to the individual, while the vast majority of risks are borne by the group. There is likely to be a backlash against this.
I think globalisation benefits (eventually) low income earners in poor countries *and* the internationally mobile and rich, who it makes super mobile and hyper rich. You therefore get a perfect populist reactive blend in western countries against the economic consequences *and* the social and cultural ones.
This will double down on things like Brexit and Corbynism.
Yes. People on the Left consistently overestimate the extent to which bad news (such as the economic crash, or a global pandemic) will move politics to the Left.
What they don't realise is that left-wing politics cannot thrive in an atmosphere of fear. It requires high levels of trust in others and so the most likely result of a fear-inducing event, such as a pandemic, is a swing towards conservatism.
The implications of this virus are spreading ever wider and it is genuinely challenging to stay on the front foot. Yesterday's decisions about schools had not been thought through so far as exams and University entrance is concerned, the previous days announcements had not been thought through in relation to tenants, the details of how gig workers are going to get paid are clearly a work in progress.
None of this is a criticism of a government working under the most extraordinary pressure. Its just a fact that this is like nothing we have seen for a very long time. Some patience is going to be required.
What the virus crisis teaches us: 1. The world is complex and interconnected. 2. There are no easy solutions. 3. Experts are absolutely essential. 4. The market does not have all the answers. 5. The state is a force for good. 6. Populism is a fake prospectus. 7. Solidarity wins. Discuss.
You know my sympathy for your perspective.
My challenges would be:
- whatever the crisis teaches us now, three quarters will be forgotten as soon as it is all over; - it is expertise and experience that are essential; - you mean, the state can be a force for good. As hopefully we are all about to see. It can, of course, be the reverse, through design (cf. history) or incompetence (cf. Trump) - the environmental/climate change agenda is essentially populist, being pushed upon governments through popular pressure. So 6 is too simplistic. - solidarity has a dark side. Often in life, individuality wins, and through the broad scope of history progress has been led by the more individualistic societies (perhaps excepting the Roman Empire)
I know you have a rosy vision in your mind. But it is possible to take your ingredients, a disconnected world with its own experts, a powerful state, limits on the market and on popular politics, and a good helping of enforced solidarity, and conjure up an alternative dark future.
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
The implications of this virus are spreading ever wider and it is genuinely challenging to stay on the front foot. Yesterday's decisions about schools had not been thought through so far as exams and University entrance is concerned, the previous days announcements had not been thought through in relation to tenants, the details of how gig workers are going to get paid are clearly a work in progress.
None of this is a criticism of a government working under the most extraordinary pressure. Its just a fact that this is like nothing we have seen for a very long time. Some patience is going to be required.
They are being thought through. Just not in advance.
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
It is the government that is carrying on with Brexit, whilst cancelling everything else. Surely that is inappropriate. Are GCSEs less important than Brexit?
The implications of this virus are spreading ever wider and it is genuinely challenging to stay on the front foot. Yesterday's decisions about schools had not been thought through so far as exams and University entrance is concerned, the previous days announcements had not been thought through in relation to tenants, the details of how gig workers are going to get paid are clearly a work in progress.
None of this is a criticism of a government working under the most extraordinary pressure. Its just a fact that this is like nothing we have seen for a very long time. Some patience is going to be required.
And most importantly a variety of mistakes are being made daily in every country - including many we're not yet aware of for precisely the reason you state.
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
I am in favour of a transistion but HMG has bigger concerns and I am not getting into the language of wicked and insane.
Events will largely move the agenda and it maybe that the UK and the EU decide a deal is in both parties best interests but equally transistion extended
Sod Brexit, and sod the EU. Johnson should just ask for the damn extension and the EU should rubber stamp it and put it in the box marked "unimportant for the foreseeable". Then any resources either side are devoting to Brexit should be redirected into working against the virus. Once this is all done then we can see what's left under the rubble. The whole world will be a very different place at the end of all this.
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
Inane maybe... insane certainly not.. deeply damaging politically to delay.. wicked? I think you need to calm down a bit !!
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
I am in favour of a transistion but HMG has bigger concerns and I am not getting into the language of wicked and insane.
Events will largely move the agenda and it maybe that the UK and the EU decide a deal is in both parties best interests but equally transistion extended
But we have left and that is a fact
Britain has indeed left the EU. The government is determined to do so in the most damaging and disruptive way possible, on top of all the disruption Britain is currently suffering.
It will only be deflected if normally-loyal Conservative supporters such as you condemn it in the strongest possible language. But it appears that you think that yet more chaos and disruption is not wicked or insane. Which says much about how slavishly loyal to the Conservative party you are.
What the virus crisis teaches us: 1. The world is complex and interconnected. 2. There are no easy solutions. 3. Experts are absolutely essential. 4. The market does not have all the answers. 5. The state is a force for good. 6. Populism is a fake prospectus. 7. Solidarity wins. Discuss.
You know my sympathy for your perspective.
My challenges would be:
- whatever the crisis teaches us now, three quarters will be forgotten as soon as it is all over; - it is expertise and experience that are essential; - you mean, the state can be a force for good. As hopefully we are all about to see. It can, of course, be the reverse, through design (cf. history) or incompetence (cf. Trump) - the environmental/climate change agenda is essentially populist, being pushed upon governments through popular pressure. So 6 is too simplistic. - solidarity has a dark side. Often in life, individuality wins, and through the broad scope of history progress has been led by the more individualistic societies (perhaps excepting the Roman Empire)
I know you have a rosy vision in your mind. But it is possible to take your ingredients, a disconnected world with its own experts, a powerful state, limits on the market and on popular politics, and a good helping of enforced solidarity, and conjure up an alternative dark future.
So the truth is that it all depends.
Fair. Your “can” point is well made. My guess is that the countries with the deepest social democratic traditions are the ones that will emerge from this the strongest.
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
I am in favour of a transistion but HMG has bigger concerns and I am not getting into the language of wicked and insane.
Events will largely move the agenda and it maybe that the UK and the EU decide a deal is in both parties best interests but equally transistion extended
But we have left and that is a fact
Britain has indeed left the EU. The government is determined to do so in the most damaging and disruptive way possible, on top of all the disruption Britain is currently suffering.
It will only be deflected if normally-loyal Conservative supporters such as you condemn it in the strongest possible language. But it appears that you think that yet more chaos and disruption is not wicked or insane. Which says much about how slavishly loyal to the Conservative party you are.
Why is Brexit, uniquely, the only thing not impacted by Corona? Hmmmm.
Absolutely. FWIW, I think the small trial with Remdesivir showed promise, but with similar caveats.
Still, anything which might relieve the burden a it is good, and hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin are widely available drugs, I believe ?
Not generally, no, since private sales are now banned. The NHS has whatever supplies there were. I doubt we had massive stocks of the anti malarial in the first place.
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
I am in favour of a transistion but HMG has bigger concerns and I am not getting into the language of wicked and insane.
Events will largely move the agenda and it maybe that the UK and the EU decide a deal is in both parties best interests but equally transistion extended
But we have left and that is a fact
Britain has indeed left the EU. The government is determined to do so in the most damaging and disruptive way possible, on top of all the disruption Britain is currently suffering.
It will only be deflected if normally-loyal Conservative supporters such as you condemn it in the strongest possible language. But it appears that you think that yet more chaos and disruption is not wicked or insane. Which says much about how slavishly loyal to the Conservative party you are.
That is uncalled for Alastair
My views are sensible and I doubt even a no deal will have much more of an effect than the economic armageddon covid 19 is causing
Indeed I am not convinced that this crisis will not have long term negative effects for the harmony and direction of the EU as each country puts it's own interests first, as can be seen now
Absolutely gutted, my favourite restaurant group is pretty much over. #FeckCoronavirus
The Sushi fast food chain, YO! Sushi, has revealed that 54 of its restaurants will permanently close at the end of service on Wednesday.
In an email sent to employees seen by the Guardian, the company said that the decision had come “in light of the escalating uncertainty of Covid-19” and followed “some very difficult decisions”.
“Regrettably, we have had to take this action as it is clearly in the interests of public health to do so and there is nothing more important than that, in particular our responsibilities to the elderly and vulnerable,” the email said.
It currently unclear which restaurants will be included, but at least one branch in London is set to shut.
One employee, who wished to remain anonymous, said: “This is a lot to come to terms with. A week ago we were all talking about the future and what we can do with the restaurant, now we’re shut. It’s so much to process in such a short space of time.”
YO! Sushi has almost 100 restaurants operating across 8 countries, 70 of which are located in the UK.
More hot mallard action in our back garden this morning.
Doesn't that usually involve the poor girl being chased to exhaustion by a couple of blokes, then being half drowned while they both have at her? It's a regual spectator sport at my favourite waterside pub this time of year.
Brexit at the end of this year would be a certainty for a no deal. There is no way at all that the EU are going to be diverting any resources towards negotiating a brexit deal. Leaders of countries would be unimaginably criticised by their people for wasting time on such an issue, and rightly so. They will ask Johnson to accept an extension, and if he rejects that it will be no deal.
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
I am in favour of a transistion but HMG has bigger concerns and I am not getting into the language of wicked and insane.
Events will largely move the agenda and it maybe that the UK and the EU decide a deal is in both parties best interests but equally transistion extended
But we have left and that is a fact
Britain has indeed left the EU. The government is determined to do so in the most damaging and disruptive way possible, on top of all the disruption Britain is currently suffering.
It will only be deflected if normally-loyal Conservative supporters such as you condemn it in the strongest possible language. But it appears that you think that yet more chaos and disruption is not wicked or insane. Which says much about how slavishly loyal to the Conservative party you are.
That is uncalled for Alastair
My views are sensible and I doubt even a no deal will have much more of an effect than the economic armageddon covid 19 is causing
Indeed I am not convinced that this crisis will not have long term negative effects for the harmony and direction of the EU as each country puts it's own interests first, as can be seen now
As I said, slavishly loyal. If you can't condemn such a wicked and unnecessary obsession, you'll not condemn anything.
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I think you'll find in reality the British governments sole priority now is this pandemic so they're simply not dealing with Brexit talks at all and are just batting away questions on that with a flat bat right now in a way to make Boycott proud. It is the likes of you still thinking about that.
When the time is right after the pandemic is resolved the government can calmly and rationally either get a deal agreed or request an extension. They have no reason to do so now and it's foolhardy to bring it up now.
Boris Johnson probably devoted more attention to the Brexit 50p coin and the lack of the Westminster bongs than he did on how to prepare the country for the worst epidemic for 100 years that was already ravishing Asia.
"Probably" doing a lot of hard work, having to carry all your prejudices there.....
OK. Johnson literally devoted more attention to the Brexit 50p coin and the lack of the Westminster bongs than he did on how to prepare the country for the worst epidemic for 100 years that was already ravishing Asia.
No prejudice required. To be fair, Johnson wasn't devoting attention to a lot of things. The grind of day to day government has come as a shock to him, I think. And I will say this for Johnson. I believe he really wants to do the right thing on the virus. I have rarely thought he is sincere on other things.
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I think you'll find in reality the British governments sole priority now is this pandemic so they're simply not dealing with Brexit talks at all and are just batting away questions on that with a flat bat right now in a way to make Boycott proud. It is the likes of you still thinking about that.
When the time is right after the pandemic is resolved the government can calmly and rationally either get a deal agreed or request an extension. They have no reason to do so now and it's foolhardy to bring it up now.
Or the government are not prepared to delay the policy closest to their heart, despite the fact such a delay is obvious and beneficial to the country. All that is required is for the PM to say "Brexit is not our priority and will be delayed".
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
I am in favour of a transistion but HMG has bigger concerns and I am not getting into the language of wicked and insane.
Events will largely move the agenda and it maybe that the UK and the EU decide a deal is in both parties best interests but equally transistion extended
But we have left and that is a fact
Britain has indeed left the EU. The government is determined to do so in the most damaging and disruptive way possible, on top of all the disruption Britain is currently suffering.
It will only be deflected if normally-loyal Conservative supporters such as you condemn it in the strongest possible language. But it appears that you think that yet more chaos and disruption is not wicked or insane. Which says much about how slavishly loyal to the Conservative party you are.
Why is Brexit, uniquely, the only thing not impacted by Corona? Hmmmm.
The implications of this virus are spreading ever wider and it is genuinely challenging to stay on the front foot. Yesterday's decisions about schools had not been thought through so far as exams and University entrance is concerned, the previous days announcements had not been thought through in relation to tenants, the details of how gig workers are going to get paid are clearly a work in progress.
None of this is a criticism of a government working under the most extraordinary pressure. Its just a fact that this is like nothing we have seen for a very long time. Some patience is going to be required.
They are being thought through. Just not in advance.
Of course. Its just impossible to deal with everything smoothly right now. Things are changing by the hour.
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
I am in favour of a transistion but HMG has bigger concerns and I am not getting into the language of wicked and insane.
Events will largely move the agenda and it maybe that the UK and the EU decide a deal is in both parties best interests but equally transistion extended
But we have left and that is a fact
Britain has indeed left the EU. The government is determined to do so in the most damaging and disruptive way possible, on top of all the disruption Britain is currently suffering.
It will only be deflected if normally-loyal Conservative supporters such as you condemn it in the strongest possible language. But it appears that you think that yet more chaos and disruption is not wicked or insane. Which says much about how slavishly loyal to the Conservative party you are.
Why is Brexit, uniquely, the only thing not impacted by Corona? Hmmmm.
Myself and Richard Tyndall called for a delay only yesterday. The Government knows it too, and is now just considering the optics of how and when to announce it.
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
I am in favour of a transistion but HMG has bigger concerns and I am not getting into the language of wicked and insane.
Events will largely move the agenda and it maybe that the UK and the EU decide a deal is in both parties best interests but equally transistion extended
But we have left and that is a fact
Britain has indeed left the EU. The government is determined to do so in the most damaging and disruptive way possible, on top of all the disruption Britain is currently suffering.
It will only be deflected if normally-loyal Conservative supporters such as you condemn it in the strongest possible language. But it appears that you think that yet more chaos and disruption is not wicked or insane. Which says much about how slavishly loyal to the Conservative party you are.
What the virus crisis teaches us: 1. The world is complex and interconnected. 2. There are no easy solutions. 3. Experts are absolutely essential. 4. The market does not have all the answers. 5. The state is a force for good. 6. Populism is a fake prospectus. 7. Solidarity wins. Discuss.
It's not one that I like, because it goes against all my political instincts, but, 8. The vast majority of the benefits of travel accrue to the individual, while the vast majority of risks are borne by the group. There is likely to be a backlash against this.
I think globalisation benefits (eventually) low income earners in poor countries *and* the internationally mobile and rich, who it makes super mobile and hyper rich. You therefore get a perfect populist reactive blend in western countries against the economic consequences *and* the social and cultural ones.
This will double down on things like Brexit and Corbynism.
Yes. People on the Left consistently overestimate the extent to which bad news (such as the economic crash, or a global pandemic) will move politics to the Left.
What they don't realise is that left-wing politics cannot thrive in an atmosphere of fear. It requires high levels of trust in others and so the most likely result of a fear-inducing event, such as a pandemic, is a swing towards conservatism.
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I think you'll find in reality the British governments sole priority now is this pandemic so they're simply not dealing with Brexit talks at all and are just batting away questions on that with a flat bat right now in a way to make Boycott proud. It is the likes of you still thinking about that.
When the time is right after the pandemic is resolved the government can calmly and rationally either get a deal agreed or request an extension. They have no reason to do so now and it's foolhardy to bring it up now.
Or the government are not prepared to delay the policy closest to their heart, despite the fact such a delay is obvious and beneficial to the country. All that is required is for the PM to say "Brexit is not our priority and will be delayed".
He said...... blustered and waffled ....... yesterday that it wouldn't.
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
I am in favour of a transistion but HMG has bigger concerns and I am not getting into the language of wicked and insane.
Events will largely move the agenda and it maybe that the UK and the EU decide a deal is in both parties best interests but equally transistion extended
But we have left and that is a fact
Britain has indeed left the EU. The government is determined to do so in the most damaging and disruptive way possible, on top of all the disruption Britain is currently suffering.
It will only be deflected if normally-loyal Conservative supporters such as you condemn it in the strongest possible language. But it appears that you think that yet more chaos and disruption is not wicked or insane. Which says much about how slavishly loyal to the Conservative party you are.
Why is Brexit, uniquely, the only thing not impacted by Corona? Hmmmm.
Myself and Richard Tyndall called for a delay only yesterday. The Government knows it too, and is now just considering the optics of how and when to announce it.
So, it will be.
Do explain why it isn't as simple as "there's a pandemic so we'll come back to this next year?" Do explain why this needs any "optics" at all.
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
Round objects. Myself and Richard Tyndall called for one yesterday.
And the Government will too. My guess is until April 2021 next year.
We will get precisely no credit from the likes of you for that.
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
Round objects. Myself and Richard Tyndall called for one yesterday.
And the Government will too. My guess is until April 2021 next year.
We will get precisely no credit from the likes of you for that.
I'll give you credit. I'll give the government none. It is pointing a gun in our faces and refusing to move it even in the face of a pandemic.
What the virus crisis teaches us: 1. The world is complex and interconnected. 2. There are no easy solutions. 3. Experts are absolutely essential. 4. The market does not have all the answers. 5. The state is a force for good. 6. Populism is a fake prospectus. 7. Solidarity wins. Discuss.
It's remarkable how current events seem to reinforce views you already hold. I'm shocked.
What have I got wrong?
1. Globalisation has led to efficiency but not resilience. We've chosen to be that interconnected. 2. Yes. Which goes against some of your other subsequent black & white points. 3. In their field of professional expertise, yes, but they can be subject to mistakes and incorrect assumptions just like the rest of us. Politicians decide. 4. The market works well. We have a mixed economy. Arguing against anarcho capitalism is a straw man. 5. Nation states are what matters when the chips are down. We're finding out there's no such thing as a citizen of the world. 6. Non sequitur. Although I note some of globalisation's greatest and richest proponents (Branson) are the first to put out the begging bowl. 7. National solidarity and neighborliness is what this crisis is bringing out. See Italians singing their anthem and waving flags out of windows. And others are a bit selfish. It's a bit like WW2 in civilian spirit.
So you accept my basic parameters. That makes for a much more productive discussion.
I disagree with several key points of yours. Others are non-contentious.
You can't just say to any response, "a-ha, so you agree with me then?" without engaging with any of them with what you think in response.
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
I am in favour of a transistion but HMG has bigger concerns and I am not getting into the language of wicked and insane.
Events will largely move the agenda and it maybe that the UK and the EU decide a deal is in both parties best interests but equally transistion extended
But we have left and that is a fact
Britain has indeed left the EU. The government is determined to do so in the most damaging and disruptive way possible, on top of all the disruption Britain is currently suffering.
It will only be deflected if normally-loyal Conservative supporters such as you condemn it in the strongest possible language. But it appears that you think that yet more chaos and disruption is not wicked or insane. Which says much about how slavishly loyal to the Conservative party you are.
Why is Brexit, uniquely, the only thing not impacted by Corona? Hmmmm.
Myself and Richard Tyndall called for a delay only yesterday. The Government knows it too, and is now just considering the optics of how and when to announce it.
So, it will be.
Do explain why it isn't as simple as "there's a pandemic so we'll come back to this next year?" Do explain why this needs any "optics" at all.
Because even wasting time getting the people on the other side of the conversation on the phone is not worth it at the moment.
Do you need to worry about this until June - not really Do you need to worry food, transport and other items - yes, today.
Brexit at the end of this year would be a certainty for a no deal. There is no way at all that the EU are going to be diverting any resources towards negotiating a brexit deal. Leaders of countries would be unimaginably criticised by their people for wasting time on such an issue, and rightly so. They will ask Johnson to accept an extension, and if he rejects that it will be no deal.
Accepting your narrative, if he accepts it will be no free trade agreement. Not no deal.
This may be the second time in my life I find myself agreeing with Gordon Brown (I didn't hear what he said) but is this really the priority: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51955389?
It seems to me that Ms Legarde is fighting the war of 2008 when the Euro was under threat not the war of 2020 when the whole economy is in danger of collapsing because of want of demand. Its really important that they get a grip
The Chinese state sought to cover up the virus at outbreak, and its charming measures have included welding people into their homes. If that state had instead cracked down on trading rare animals and wet markets, this pandemic may very well never have happened.
That state, yep. And others, too. But it’s only the state that can deal with the consequences.
If as some claim the Chinese state caused coronavirus as it jumped from a research lab, is that a force for good ?
North Korea the statiest of statists claims it has zero CV19, should we all imitate their system ?
It's the shittest conspiracy theory ever.
"Let's design a virus that only kills the elderly and vulnerable and destroys the world economy! That will teach our enemies! Mwhahaha!"
That's not the contention, it's they were mucking around in a virology lab to see what developed and it escaped unintentionally. The paranoia is simply the internet getting in to gear
Yeah, and like all conspiracy theories it evolves to circumvent the most credible rebuttals.
The idea Chinese scientists just "muck around" in labs to see what viral weapons they can come up with is a lot of nonsense.
This has jumped over to humans from bats who are great incubators of viruses -and maybe pandolins - as has been well documented.
So what do research virologists do all day, then?
Plonking over-certainty on matters on which we can at best explore probabilities seems to be a thing for the PB righties.
If you want to support fake news then you are part of the problem and will all but guarantee another outbreak in future.
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
It is the government that is carrying on with Brexit, whilst cancelling everything else. Surely that is inappropriate. Are GCSEs less important than Brexit?
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
I am in favour of a transistion but HMG has bigger concerns and I am not getting into the language of wicked and insane.
Events will largely move the agenda and it maybe that the UK and the EU decide a deal is in both parties best interests but equally transistion extended
But we have left and that is a fact
Britain has indeed left the EU. The government is determined to do so in the most damaging and disruptive way possible, on top of all the disruption Britain is currently suffering.
It will only be deflected if normally-loyal Conservative supporters such as you condemn it in the strongest possible language. But it appears that you think that yet more chaos and disruption is not wicked or insane. Which says much about how slavishly loyal to the Conservative party you are.
Why is Brexit, uniquely, the only thing not impacted by Corona? Hmmmm.
Myself and Richard Tyndall called for a delay only yesterday. The Government knows it too, and is now just considering the optics of how and when to announce it.
So, it will be.
Do explain why it isn't as simple as "there's a pandemic so we'll come back to this next year?" Do explain why this needs any "optics" at all.
Because it's not a priority. The government has more important things on its plate and this is in the "deal with this later" pile. As it should be.
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
I am in favour of a transistion but HMG has bigger concerns and I am not getting into the language of wicked and insane.
Events will largely move the agenda and it maybe that the UK and the EU decide a deal is in both parties best interests but equally transistion extended
But we have left and that is a fact
Britain has indeed left the EU. The government is determined to do so in the most damaging and disruptive way possible, on top of all the disruption Britain is currently suffering.
It will only be deflected if normally-loyal Conservative supporters such as you condemn it in the strongest possible language. But it appears that you think that yet more chaos and disruption is not wicked or insane. Which says much about how slavishly loyal to the Conservative party you are.
Why is Brexit, uniquely, the only thing not impacted by Corona? Hmmmm.
Myself and Richard Tyndall called for a delay only yesterday. The Government knows it too, and is now just considering the optics of how and when to announce it.
So, it will be.
Do explain why it isn't as simple as "there's a pandemic so we'll come back to this next year?" Do explain why this needs any "optics" at all.
Because even wasting time getting the people on the other side of the conversation on the phone is not worth it at the moment.
Do you need to worry about this until June - not really Do you need to worry food, transport and other items - yes, today.
No one needs to be got on the phone. The deadline is created by the British government. The EU has made it abundantly clear that is Britain's call.
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
I am in favour of a transistion but HMG has bigger concerns and I am not getting into the language of wicked and insane.
Events will largely move the agenda and it maybe that the UK and the EU decide a deal is in both parties best interests but equally transistion extended
But we have left and that is a fact
Britain has indeed left the EU. The government is determined to do so in the most damaging and disruptive way possible, on top of all the disruption Britain is currently suffering.
It will only be deflected if normally-loyal Conservative supporters such as you condemn it in the strongest possible language. But it appears that you think that yet more chaos and disruption is not wicked or insane. Which says much about how slavishly loyal to the Conservative party you are.
Why is Brexit, uniquely, the only thing not impacted by Corona? Hmmmm.
Myself and Richard Tyndall called for a delay only yesterday. The Government knows it too, and is now just considering the optics of how and when to announce it.
So, it will be.
Do explain why it isn't as simple as "there's a pandemic so we'll come back to this next year?" Do explain why this needs any "optics" at all.
Because even wasting time getting the people on the other side of the conversation on the phone is not worth it at the moment.
Do you need to worry about this until June - not really Do you need to worry food, transport and other items - yes, today.
No one needs to be got on the phone. The deadline is created by the British government. The EU has made it abundantly clear that is Britain's call.
So there's no urgency. We can deal with that in June. In the meantime the pandemic should be the sole focus not stupid distractions like that.
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
I am in favour of a transistion but HMG has bigger concerns and I am not getting into the language of wicked and insane.
Events will largely move the agenda and it maybe that the UK and the EU decide a deal is in both parties best interests but equally transistion extended
But we have left and that is a fact
Britain has indeed left the EU. The government is determined to do so in the most damaging and disruptive way possible, on top of all the disruption Britain is currently suffering.
It will only be deflected if normally-loyal Conservative supporters such as you condemn it in the strongest possible language. But it appears that you think that yet more chaos and disruption is not wicked or insane. Which says much about how slavishly loyal to the Conservative party you are.
Why is Brexit, uniquely, the only thing not impacted by Corona? Hmmmm.
Myself and Richard Tyndall called for a delay only yesterday. The Government knows it too, and is now just considering the optics of how and when to announce it.
So, it will be.
Do explain why it isn't as simple as "there's a pandemic so we'll come back to this next year?" Do explain why this needs any "optics" at all.
Because it's not a priority. The government has more important things on its plate and this is in the "deal with this later" pile. As it should be.
It's not dealing with it later. It is repeatedly reaffirming its position. It's dealing with it now and the way it is dealing with it now is to keep it as a priority.
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
It is the government that is carrying on with Brexit, whilst cancelling everything else. Surely that is inappropriate. Are GCSEs less important than Brexit?
You cannot cancel brexit. It has happened
In the transition period we are more like 95% in 5% out, so extending current arrangements is essentially delaying Brexit, even if we have passed the Brexit date. Regardless, it really is a second order issue at the moment.
This may be the second time in my life I find myself agreeing with Gordon Brown (I didn't hear what he said) but is this really the priority: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51955389?
It seems to me that Ms Legarde is fighting the war of 2008 when the Euro was under threat not the war of 2020 when the whole economy is in danger of collapsing because of want of demand. Its really important that they get a grip
It is up to Governments to sort out the demand issues - but I'm not 100% sure how the ECB can resolve that when Germany isn't willing to pick up even part of the bill. So I suspect letting Governments borrow money is all that it can do..
I cannot see how the Euro is going to survive this though as it's finally confirmed that it's one rule for Germany and another for everyone else.
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
I am in favour of a transistion but HMG has bigger concerns and I am not getting into the language of wicked and insane.
Events will largely move the agenda and it maybe that the UK and the EU decide a deal is in both parties best interests but equally transistion extended
But we have left and that is a fact
Britain has indeed left the EU. The government is determined to do so in the most damaging and disruptive way possible, on top of all the disruption Britain is currently suffering.
It will only be deflected if normally-loyal Conservative supporters such as you condemn it in the strongest possible language. But it appears that you think that yet more chaos and disruption is not wicked or insane. Which says much about how slavishly loyal to the Conservative party you are.
That is uncalled for Alastair
My views are sensible and I doubt even a no deal will have much more of an effect than the economic armageddon covid 19 is causing
Indeed I am not convinced that this crisis will not have long term negative effects for the harmony and direction of the EU as each country puts it's own interests first, as can be seen now
As I said, slavishly loyal. If you can't condemn such a wicked and unnecessary obsession, you'll not condemn anything.
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I think you'll find in reality the British governments sole priority now is this pandemic so they're simply not dealing with Brexit talks at all and are just batting away questions on that with a flat bat right now in a way to make Boycott proud. It is the likes of you still thinking about that.
When the time is right after the pandemic is resolved the government can calmly and rationally either get a deal agreed or request an extension. They have no reason to do so now and it's foolhardy to bring it up now.
What the virus crisis teaches us: 1. The world is complex and interconnected. 2. There are no easy solutions. 3. Experts are absolutely essential. 4. The market does not have all the answers. 5. The state is a force for good. 6. Populism is a fake prospectus. 7. Solidarity wins. Discuss.
It's not one that I like, because it goes against all my political instincts, but, 8. The vast majority of the benefits of travel accrue to the individual, while the vast majority of risks are borne by the group. There is likely to be a backlash against this.
I think globalisation benefits (eventually) low income earners in poor countries *and* the internationally mobile and rich, who it makes super mobile and hyper rich. You therefore get a perfect populist reactive blend in western countries against the economic consequences *and* the social and cultural ones.
This will double down on things like Brexit and Corbynism.
Yes. People on the Left consistently overestimate the extent to which bad news (such as the economic crash, or a global pandemic) will move politics to the Left.
What they don't realise is that left-wing politics cannot thrive in an atmosphere of fear. It requires high levels of trust in others and so the most likely result of a fear-inducing event, such as a pandemic, is a swing towards conservatism.
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I think you'll find in reality the British governments sole priority now is this pandemic so they're simply not dealing with Brexit talks at all and are just batting away questions on that with a flat bat right now in a way to make Boycott proud. It is the likes of you still thinking about that.
When the time is right after the pandemic is resolved the government can calmly and rationally either get a deal agreed or request an extension. They have no reason to do so now and it's foolhardy to bring it up now.
Or the government are not prepared to delay the policy closest to their heart, despite the fact such a delay is obvious and beneficial to the country. All that is required is for the PM to say "Brexit is not our priority and will be delayed".
He said...... blustered and waffled ....... yesterday that it wouldn't.
He also declares on a daily basis that he has "absolute certainty" that the current strategy will deal with the pandemic. As the strategy changes in response to events, as it must...
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
The desire to impose sanctions on ourselves by means of Brexit seemed like a bit of a larf when the economy was relatively healthy. Now that we're heading into a massive global depression the transition will be extended by a very long time followed by BINO.
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
I am in favour of a transistion but HMG has bigger concerns and I am not getting into the language of wicked and insane.
Events will largely move the agenda and it maybe that the UK and the EU decide a deal is in both parties best interests but equally transistion extended
But we have left and that is a fact
Britain has indeed left the EU. The government is determined to do so in the most damaging and disruptive way possible, on top of all the disruption Britain is currently suffering.
It will only be deflected if normally-loyal Conservative supporters such as you condemn it in the strongest possible language. But it appears that you think that yet more chaos and disruption is not wicked or insane. Which says much about how slavishly loyal to the Conservative party you are.
Why is Brexit, uniquely, the only thing not impacted by Corona? Hmmmm.
Myself and Richard Tyndall called for a delay only yesterday. The Government knows it too, and is now just considering the optics of how and when to announce it.
So, it will be.
Do explain why it isn't as simple as "there's a pandemic so we'll come back to this next year?" Do explain why this needs any "optics" at all.
Because it's not a priority. The government has more important things on its plate and this is in the "deal with this later" pile. As it should be.
It's not dealing with it later. It is repeatedly reaffirming its position. It's dealing with it now and the way it is dealing with it now is to keep it as a priority.
Because it's the law.
Much as you would have them distracted by it, they have other priorities right now than changing the Brexit law.
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I think you'll find in reality the British governments sole priority now is this pandemic so they're simply not dealing with Brexit talks at all and are just batting away questions on that with a flat bat right now in a way to make Boycott proud. It is the likes of you still thinking about that.
When the time is right after the pandemic is resolved the government can calmly and rationally either get a deal agreed or request an extension. They have no reason to do so now and it's foolhardy to bring it up now.
Absolutely right. I shared the other day my experience of leadership of my council during the riots. You just go from one meeting to the next dealing with one pressing issue after another, and spend a lot of time communicating, sharing messages and priorities and joining up with all the other people and organisations involved with the crisis.
Doubtless there are a few civil servants with nothing else to do working away on some drafting in a back room, but our leading politicians wont be giving any attention to anything that isn't going to happen in the next few weeks, for sure.
Boris Johnson probably devoted more attention to the Brexit 50p coin and the lack of the Westminster bongs than he did on how to prepare the country for the worst epidemic for 100 years that was already ravishing Asia.
"Probably" doing a lot of hard work, having to carry all your prejudices there.....
OK. Johnson literally devoted more attention to the Brexit 50p coin and the lack of the Westminster bongs than he did on how to prepare the country for the worst epidemic for 100 years that was already ravishing Asia.
No prejudice required. To be fair, Johnson wasn't devoting attention to a lot of things. The grind of day to day government has come as a shock to him, I think. And I will say this for Johnson. I believe he really wants to do the right thing on the virus. I have rarely thought he is sincere on other things.
I am glad you can deliver your insights into the non-meeting of COBRA and the non-planning they have been undertaking for months now. Whilst never troubling to brief the PM. Keep them coming.....
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
It is the government that is carrying on with Brexit, whilst cancelling everything else. Surely that is inappropriate. Are GCSEs less important than Brexit?
You cannot cancel brexit. It has happened
You know and I know that is not really true. The transitional arrangements can be extended and the whole thing kicked in the long grass. That should happen now for the good of the country, but for ideological reasons it hasn't.
The Chinese state sought to cover up the virus at outbreak, and its charming measures have included welding people into their homes. If that state had instead cracked down on trading rare animals and wet markets, this pandemic may very well never have happened.
That state, yep. And others, too. But it’s only the state that can deal with the consequences.
If as some claim the Chinese state caused coronavirus as it jumped from a research lab, is that a force for good ?
North Korea the statiest of statists claims it has zero CV19, should we all imitate their system ?
It's the shittest conspiracy theory ever.
"Let's design a virus that only kills the elderly and vulnerable and destroys the world economy! That will teach our enemies! Mwhahaha!"
That's not the contention, it's they were mucking around in a virology lab to see what developed and it escaped unintentionally. The paranoia is simply the internet getting in to gear
Yeah, and like all conspiracy theories it evolves to circumvent the most credible rebuttals.
The idea Chinese scientists just "muck around" in labs to see what viral weapons they can come up with is a lot of nonsense.
This has jumped over to humans from bats who are great incubators of viruses -and maybe pandolins - as has been well documented.
So what do research virologists do all day, then?
Plonking over-certainty on matters on which we can at best explore probabilities seems to be a thing for the PB righties.
If you want to support fake news then you are part of the problem and will all but guarantee another outbreak in future.
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
The desire to impose sanctions on ourselves by means of Brexit seemed like a bit of a larf when the economy was relatively healthy. Now that we're heading into a massive global depression the transition will be extended by a very long time followed by BINO.
We just need to maintain our pasta and toilet roll imports. What other trade is there going to be for the foreseeable?
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
The desire to impose sanctions on ourselves by means of Brexit seemed like a bit of a larf when the economy was relatively healthy. Now that we're heading into a massive global depression the transition will be extended by a very long time followed by BINO.
That is possible as are other scenarios
But to get in a state over brexit just now is irrational as there is only one focus covid 19
We have self isolated since tuesday as we are in the highest risk group .
However our Asda delivery today has revealed no milk, bread,weetabix, oranges and other routine weekly buys including beans and spaghetti.
It goes without saying there are no toilet rolls, hand santisers or kitchen surface cleaners
How on earth are the isolated going to manage when the supermarkets cannot provide the normal essentials.
All this will do is to see the high risk elderly going out to the shops seeking their needs
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I think you'll find in reality the British governments sole priority now is this pandemic so they're simply not dealing with Brexit talks at all and are just batting away questions on that with a flat bat right now in a way to make Boycott proud. It is the likes of you still thinking about that.
When the time is right after the pandemic is resolved the government can calmly and rationally either get a deal agreed or request an extension. They have no reason to do so now and it's foolhardy to bring it up now.
Absolutely right. I shared the other day my experience of leadership of my council during the riots. You just go from one meeting to the next dealing with one pressing issue after another, and spend a lot of time communicating, sharing messages and priorities and joining up with all the other people and organisations involved with the crisis.
Doubtless there are a few civil servants with nothing else to do working away on some drafting in a back room, but our leading politicians wont be giving any attention to anything that isn't going to happen in the next few weeks, for sure.
This hardly sounds like a government that has given no thought to the subject:
Quite a few years ago, I went to the Reading Festival, since Metallica were playing. A ticket for the whole weekend was barely more than for Sunday - when they were playing. So, like most people, did the whole weekend.
This resulted in quite a few bikers, metal heads etc watching bands they normally wouldn't see. Oasis played, and Liam took it into his head to shout insults at the crowd - apparently they were appreciating his genius or something. Water bottles started being thrown at the stage (some not containing water) and things looked ugly.
When their set ended (early, I think), James came on. Their lead singer strolled up to the mike, took a look round an ugly, ugly crowd and said "We are really sorry, we know it's cheesy to do this, but we have to ..." and... launched into Sit Down. Which was the one song the whole crowd knew - on every pub jukebox...
Within seconds the crowd went from murder to happy. A magnificent example of calming a situation down..
Paul Jackson, global head of asset allocation research at Invesco, says that UK efforts to fight the crisis are not being rewarded in the currency markets because of Brexit, which has put the UK economy in a compromised position. “If you are already weakened by an underlying condition...then the risks are greater,” he said.
What the virus crisis teaches us: 1. The world is complex and interconnected. 2. There are no easy solutions. 3. Experts are absolutely essential. 4. The market does not have all the answers. 5. The state is a force for good. 6. Populism is a fake prospectus. 7. Solidarity wins. Discuss.
3. Experts are essential, but should be informing. not deciding, and their opinions only have greater weight within their field of expertise
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
It is the government that is carrying on with Brexit, whilst cancelling everything else. Surely that is inappropriate. Are GCSEs less important than Brexit?
You cannot cancel brexit. It has happened
You know and I know that is not really true. The transitional arrangements can be extended and the whole thing kicked in the long grass. That should happen now for the good of the country, but for ideological reasons it hasn't.
To be honest extending transistion is probable but you show your true colours when you say 'the whole thing kicked into the long grass '
Brexit is a legal fact and it has to be resolved and it will be but we will not be rejoining
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
The desire to impose sanctions on ourselves by means of Brexit seemed like a bit of a larf when the economy was relatively healthy. Now that we're heading into a massive global depression the transition will be extended by a very long time followed by BINO.
That is possible as are other scenarios
But to get in a state over brexit just now is irrational as there is only one focus covid 19
We have self isolated since tuesday as we are in the highest risk group .
However our Asda delivery today has revealed no milk, bread,weetabix, oranges and other routine weekly buys including beans and spaghetti.
It goes without saying there are no toilet rolls, hand santisers or kitchen surface cleaners
How on earth are the isolated going to manage when the supermarkets cannot provide the normal essentials.
All this will do is to see the high risk elderly going out to the shops seeking their needs
So commenting on how the pandemic might affect football standings, or the US presidential election is fine, but suggest it might prolong the Brexit transition period is a moral outrage? Right, got it
BTW it was another poster who introduced Brexit into the discussion this morning, Alastair responded to that poster calling him a fanatic and a weirdo.
What the virus crisis teaches us: 1. The world is complex and interconnected. 2. There are no easy solutions. 3. Experts are absolutely essential. 4. The market does not have all the answers. 5. The state is a force for good. 6. Populism is a fake prospectus. 7. Solidarity wins. Discuss.
So, to 'discuss' your first 3 points (then I must do some work).
1. A bland enough statement to be meaningless. The world was complex and interconnected in the 19th century. It was complex and interconnected in the days of Good Queen Bess. If you get bold enough to endorse or criticise its current state of interconnectedness, this can become a discussion.
2. Completely disagree. There *appear* to be no easy solutions. That isn't the same thing. Take Foxy's recent posts about Zinc. Let's say that a cocktail of Zinc and Vitamin C, both cheap and widely available supplements, was the key to vastly improving Corona outcomes till it was no more of a threat than a bad cold. [I AM NOT PROPOSING THAT THIS IS THE CASE BY THE WAY]. How would we find that out? The Pharmaceuticals aren't going to be rushing toward a solution that there's no money in. The NHS can't (to my knowledge) prescribe food supplements, because they're not a drug or a device. If it was spread by social media, people would dismiss it as fake news. We have made things hard.
3. Of course experts are essential. With the caveat that they should be specialists in their field, and ideally have a proven track record in that field. As her Majesty shrewdly and tellingly observed when bankers told her how disastrous leaving the EU would be 'you didn't predict the financial crisis though did you?'.
What the virus crisis teaches us: 1. The world is complex and interconnected. 2. There are no easy solutions. 3. Experts are absolutely essential. 4. The market does not have all the answers. 5. The state is a force for good. 6. Populism is a fake prospectus. 7. Solidarity wins. Discuss.
It's not one that I like, because it goes against all my political instincts, but, 8. The vast majority of the benefits of travel accrue to the individual, while the vast majority of risks are borne by the group. There is likely to be a backlash against this.
I think globalisation benefits (eventually) low income earners in poor countries *and* the internationally mobile and rich, who it makes super mobile and hyper rich. You therefore get a perfect populist reactive blend in western countries against the economic consequences *and* the social and cultural ones.
This will double down on things like Brexit and Corbynism.
Yes. People on the Left consistently overestimate the extent to which bad news (such as the economic crash, or a global pandemic) will move politics to the Left.
What they don't realise is that left-wing politics cannot thrive in an atmosphere of fear. It requires high levels of trust in others and so the most likely result of a fear-inducing event, such as a pandemic, is a swing towards conservatism.
Quite a few years ago, I went to the Reading Festival, since Metallica were playing. A ticket for the whole weekend was barely more than for Sunday - when they were playing. So, like most people, did the whole weekend.
This resulted in quite a few bikers, metal heads etc watching bands they normally wouldn't see. Oasis played, and Liam took it into his head to shout insults at the crowd - apparently they were appreciating his genius or something. Water bottles started being thrown at the stage (some not containing water) and things looked ugly.
When their set ended (early, I think), James came on. Their lead singer strolled up to the mike, took a look round an ugly, ugly crowd and said "We are really sorry, we know it's cheesy to do this, but we have to ..." and... launched into Sit Down. Which was the one song the whole crowd knew - on every pub jukebox...
Within seconds the crowd went from murder to happy. A magnificent example of calming a situation down..
I saw James on one of their first-ever gigs, when (early/mid-80s) they supported New Order at the Tower Ballroom, Edgbaston, underneath the shadow of the plastic palm trees....
What the virus crisis teaches us: 1. The world is complex and interconnected. 2. There are no easy solutions. 3. Experts are absolutely essential. 4. The market does not have all the answers. 5. The state is a force for good. 6. Populism is a fake prospectus. 7. Solidarity wins. Discuss.
It's remarkable how current events seem to reinforce views you already hold. I'm shocked.
Libertarians and small staters love to quote that joke that the scariest words are "I'm from the government and I've come to help"
Funny thing is the minute there is a problem like this virus or flooding even they they go very quiet and join everyone else in expecting the state to solve the problems for them.
Gordon Brown (from ~0810 on R4) on saving the world redux.
Doom laden homilies as per usual, emphasizing employment protection. "We need to copy what the Danes or the Swedes or the Germans are doing".. Against helicopter money ("scattergun").. World needs leadership.. Needs coordinated fiscal stimulus as we did in 2008.. ECB action is not fiscal stimulus.. wrt London, we need to step in now with [confused waffle] .. profiteering..country needs to come together .. Govt needs to take the right steps .. re Brexit the big issue will be how we can restore trade not tariffs
...There are two large reasons to believe the political echo of this crisis will last much longer than the crisis itself.
The first is that many of the people whose expectations and routines are most dramatically upended by the pandemic are students. The interruption, and in some cases irreplaceable loss, of important experiences in their education, as campuses empty and untold events are canceled, will likely shape their consciousness in more lasting ways than for the rest of us.
Like most catastrophes, the pandemic’s malign consequences will fall most heavily on the underprivileged. Unlike most catastrophes, its costs are also being paid heavily by some segments of the most privileged. Those college seniors whose spring terms and graduation ceremonies are suddenly deleted include many people who are future leaders of the public and private sectors. No, it’s not the end of the world for them. But it’s a piercing loss even so—one being paid more for the benefit of older, less healthy people than for pure self-protection.
More profoundly, the dynamics of the coronavirus moment likely will resemble the dynamics of other great public policy issues shadowing the next generation. In particular, the global pandemic and the harsh choices it imposes offer—in highly concentrated fashion in coming months—much the same choices that responses to global climate change will impose in coming decades....
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
@Big_G_NorthWales the government continues to affirm that it wishes to stick to the same timetable for the transition, despite not having the time to open talks. Do you not think that in the circumstances that is both wicked and insane?
I am in favour of a transistion but HMG has bigger concerns and I am not getting into the language of wicked and insane.
Events will largely move the agenda and it maybe that the UK and the EU decide a deal is in both parties best interests but equally transistion extended
But we have left and that is a fact
Britain has indeed left the EU. The government is determined to do so in the most damaging and disruptive way possible, on top of all the disruption Britain is currently suffering.
It will only be deflected if normally-loyal Conservative supporters such as you condemn it in the strongest possible language. But it appears that you think that yet more chaos and disruption is not wicked or insane. Which says much about how slavishly loyal to the Conservative party you are.
That is uncalled for Alastair
My views are sensible and I doubt even a no deal will have much more of an effect than the economic armageddon covid 19 is causing
Indeed I am not convinced that this crisis will not have long term negative effects for the harmony and direction of the EU as each country puts it's own interests first, as can be seen now
This is allowed for by the EU. Also countries put travel and other restrictions within their own borders. It's unfortunately necessary and doesn't mean that the EU will break up. Boris will drop the deadline because it will be necessary.
You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.
That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
It's the British government that has decided that pandemics do not alter its timetable, ready or not. As if Britain won't have had enough disruption by then.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
I open PB this morning only to see you still ranting on about brexit when people are losing their jobs, people are scared and worried for their families, and yes people are dying
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
It is the government that is carrying on with Brexit, whilst cancelling everything else. Surely that is inappropriate. Are GCSEs less important than Brexit?
You cannot cancel brexit. It has happened
You know and I know that is not really true. The transitional arrangements can be extended and the whole thing kicked in the long grass. That should happen now for the good of the country, but for ideological reasons it hasn't.
You do realise that more than half the country would just see this as Remainers STILL TRYING TO FUCKING CHEAT ON BREXIT. Which, when you are trying keep the country together and focussed on Covid-19, is not a helpful outcome.
Remainers, just STFU about Brexit for a few months, huh?
What the virus crisis teaches us: 1. The world is complex and interconnected. 2. There are no easy solutions. 3. Experts are absolutely essential. 4. The market does not have all the answers. 5. The state is a force for good. 6. Populism is a fake prospectus. 7. Solidarity wins. Discuss.
It's remarkable how current events seem to reinforce views you already hold. I'm shocked.
Libertarians and small staters love to quote that joke that the scariest words are "I'm from the government and I've come to help"
Funny thing is the minute there is a problem like this virus or flooding even they they go very quiet and join everyone else in expecting the state to solve the problems for them.
Except that in the case of flooding, the floods have been massively exacerbated by the state, because the levels of riverbeds have been steadily rising due to an EU directive strongly discouraging dredging, and the UK Environment agency enforcing this with religious zeal. The UK rains. A lot. It always has. All very lovely of the state to march in and 'solve' a problem it caused in the first place.
What the virus crisis teaches us: 1. The world is complex and interconnected. 2. There are no easy solutions. 3. Experts are absolutely essential. 4. The market does not have all the answers. 5. The state is a force for good. 6. Populism is a fake prospectus. 7. Solidarity wins. Discuss.
Comments
Plonking over-certainty on matters on which we can at best explore probabilities seems to be a thing for the PB righties.
But the nut-nut Leavers adamantly refuse to condemn that insane priority.
What they don't realise is that left-wing politics cannot thrive in an atmosphere of fear. It requires high levels of trust in others and so the most likely result of a fear-inducing event, such as a pandemic, is a swing towards conservatism.
None of this is a criticism of a government working under the most extraordinary pressure. Its just a fact that this is like nothing we have seen for a very long time. Some patience is going to be required.
My challenges would be:
- whatever the crisis teaches us now, three quarters will be forgotten as soon as it is all over;
- it is expertise and experience that are essential;
- you mean, the state can be a force for good. As hopefully we are all about to see. It can, of course, be the reverse, through design (cf. history) or incompetence (cf. Trump)
- the environmental/climate change agenda is essentially populist, being pushed upon governments through popular pressure. So 6 is too simplistic.
- solidarity has a dark side. Often in life, individuality wins, and through the broad scope of history progress has been led by the more individualistic societies (perhaps excepting the Roman Empire)
I know you have a rosy vision in your mind. But it is possible to take your ingredients, a disconnected world with its own experts, a powerful state, limits on the market and on popular politics, and a good helping of enforced solidarity, and conjure up an alternative dark future.
So the truth is that it all depends.
Brexit is of no concern to the vast majority and you are looking obsessed and ridiculous
You are better than this Alastair
That could lead, historically, to plenty of nepotism, but also to families being exterminated the ninth degree when things went rather less well.
Events will largely move the agenda and it maybe that the UK and the EU decide a deal is in both parties best interests but equally transistion extended
But we have left and that is a fact
Then any resources either side are devoting to Brexit should be redirected into working against the virus.
Once this is all done then we can see what's left under the rubble. The whole world will be a very different place at the end of all this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h59lUTbuE1I
It will only be deflected if normally-loyal Conservative supporters such as you condemn it in the strongest possible language. But it appears that you think that yet more chaos and disruption is not wicked or insane. Which says much about how slavishly loyal to the Conservative party you are.
FWIW, I think the small trial with Remdesivir showed promise, but with similar caveats.
Still, anything which might relieve the burden a it is good, and hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin are widely available drugs, I believe ?
I might stick to Netflix though :-)
My views are sensible and I doubt even a no deal will have much more of an effect than the economic armageddon covid 19 is causing
Indeed I am not convinced that this crisis will not have long term negative effects for the harmony and direction of the EU as each country puts it's own interests first, as can be seen now
The Sushi fast food chain, YO! Sushi, has revealed that 54 of its restaurants will permanently close at the end of service on Wednesday.
In an email sent to employees seen by the Guardian, the company said that the decision had come “in light of the escalating uncertainty of Covid-19” and followed “some very difficult decisions”.
“Regrettably, we have had to take this action as it is clearly in the interests of public health to do so and there is nothing more important than that, in particular our responsibilities to the elderly and vulnerable,” the email said.
It currently unclear which restaurants will be included, but at least one branch in London is set to shut.
One employee, who wished to remain anonymous, said: “This is a lot to come to terms with. A week ago we were all talking about the future and what we can do with the restaurant, now we’re shut. It’s so much to process in such a short space of time.”
YO! Sushi has almost 100 restaurants operating across 8 countries, 70 of which are located in the UK.
The rest of us have far more important things on our minds
When the time is right after the pandemic is resolved the government can calmly and rationally either get a deal agreed or request an extension. They have no reason to do so now and it's foolhardy to bring it up now.
No prejudice required. To be fair, Johnson wasn't devoting attention to a lot of things. The grind of day to day government has come as a shock to him, I think. And I will say this for Johnson. I believe he really wants to do the right thing on the virus. I have rarely thought he is sincere on other things.
So, it will be.
And the Government will too. My guess is until April 2021 next year.
We will get precisely no credit from the likes of you for that.
You can't just say to any response, "a-ha, so you agree with me then?" without engaging with any of them with what you think in response.
Do you need to worry about this until June - not really
Do you need to worry food, transport and other items - yes, today.
It seems to me that Ms Legarde is fighting the war of 2008 when the Euro was under threat not the war of 2020 when the whole economy is in danger of collapsing because of want of demand. Its really important that they get a grip
I cannot see how the Euro is going to survive this though as it's finally confirmed that it's one rule for Germany and another for everyone else.
Much as you would have them distracted by it, they have other priorities right now than changing the Brexit law.
Doubtless there are a few civil servants with nothing else to do working away on some drafting in a back room, but our leading politicians wont be giving any attention to anything that isn't going to happen in the next few weeks, for sure.
But to get in a state over brexit just now is irrational as there is only one focus covid 19
We have self isolated since tuesday as we are in the highest risk group .
However our Asda delivery today has revealed no milk, bread,weetabix, oranges and other routine weekly buys including beans and spaghetti.
It goes without saying there are no toilet rolls, hand santisers or kitchen surface cleaners
How on earth are the isolated going to manage when the supermarkets cannot provide the normal essentials.
All this will do is to see the high risk elderly going out to the shops seeking their needs
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-brexit-dominic-raab-uk-cuba-foreign-secretary-a9406736.html
It wouldn't have been hard for him to say that he was keeping the matter under review given developments. But he didn't.
This resulted in quite a few bikers, metal heads etc watching bands they normally wouldn't see. Oasis played, and Liam took it into his head to shout insults at the crowd - apparently they were appreciating his genius or something. Water bottles started being thrown at the stage (some not containing water) and things looked ugly.
When their set ended (early, I think), James came on. Their lead singer strolled up to the mike, took a look round an ugly, ugly crowd and said "We are really sorry, we know it's cheesy to do this, but we have to ..." and... launched into Sit Down. Which was the one song the whole crowd knew - on every pub jukebox...
Within seconds the crowd went from murder to happy. A magnificent example of calming a situation down..
Paul Jackson, global head of asset allocation research at Invesco, says that UK efforts to fight the crisis are not being rewarded in the currency markets because of Brexit, which has put the UK economy in a compromised position.
“If you are already weakened by an underlying condition...then the risks are greater,” he said.
5. The state CAN be a force for good
Brexit is a legal fact and it has to be resolved and it will be but we will not be rejoining
My tip to sell "NHS mentions" (Boris Briefing) at 12 was strong. Made up at 7.
Hope everyone piled in like me and made a fiver. That's enough to buy 12 rolls of quilted.
BTW it was another poster who introduced Brexit into the discussion this morning, Alastair responded to that poster calling him a fanatic and a weirdo.
1. A bland enough statement to be meaningless. The world was complex and interconnected in the 19th century. It was complex and interconnected in the days of Good Queen Bess. If you get bold enough to endorse or criticise its current state of interconnectedness, this can become a discussion.
2. Completely disagree. There *appear* to be no easy solutions. That isn't the same thing. Take Foxy's recent posts about Zinc. Let's say that a cocktail of Zinc and Vitamin C, both cheap and widely available supplements, was the key to vastly improving Corona outcomes till it was no more of a threat than a bad cold. [I AM NOT PROPOSING THAT THIS IS THE CASE BY THE WAY]. How would we find that out? The Pharmaceuticals aren't going to be rushing toward a solution that there's no money in. The NHS can't (to my knowledge) prescribe food supplements, because they're not a drug or a device. If it was spread by social media, people would dismiss it as fake news. We have made things hard.
3. Of course experts are essential. With the caveat that they should be specialists in their field, and ideally have a proven track record in that field. As her Majesty shrewdly and tellingly observed when bankers told her how disastrous leaving the EU would be 'you didn't predict the financial crisis though did you?'.
Funny thing is the minute there is a problem like this virus or flooding even they they go very quiet and join everyone else in expecting the state to solve the problems for them.
Doom laden homilies as per usual, emphasizing employment protection. "We need to copy what the Danes or the Swedes or the Germans are doing".. Against helicopter money ("scattergun").. World needs leadership.. Needs coordinated fiscal stimulus as we did in 2008.. ECB action is not fiscal stimulus.. wrt London, we need to step in now with [confused waffle] .. profiteering..country needs to come together .. Govt needs to take the right steps .. re Brexit the big issue will be how we can restore trade not tariffs
Sum total: balloon of hot air.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/03/18/the-coronavirus-generation-comes-to-life-136491
...There are two large reasons to believe the political echo of this crisis will last much longer than the crisis itself.
The first is that many of the people whose expectations and routines are most dramatically upended by the pandemic are students. The interruption, and in some cases irreplaceable loss, of important experiences in their education, as campuses empty and untold events are canceled, will likely shape their consciousness in more lasting ways than for the rest of us.
Like most catastrophes, the pandemic’s malign consequences will fall most heavily on the underprivileged. Unlike most catastrophes, its costs are also being paid heavily by some segments of the most privileged. Those college seniors whose spring terms and graduation ceremonies are suddenly deleted include many people who are future leaders of the public and private sectors. No, it’s not the end of the world for them. But it’s a piercing loss even so—one being paid more for the benefit of older, less healthy people than for pure self-protection.
More profoundly, the dynamics of the coronavirus moment likely will resemble the dynamics of other great public policy issues shadowing the next generation. In particular, the global pandemic and the harsh choices it imposes offer—in highly concentrated fashion in coming months—much the same choices that responses to global climate change will impose in coming decades....
Boris will drop the deadline because it will be necessary.
Remainers, just STFU about Brexit for a few months, huh?
That was easy.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/18/coronavirus-exposed-extent-uk-social-crisis