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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Today’s front pages are yet again dominated by the coronavirus

SystemSystem Posts: 12,054
edited March 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Today’s front pages are yet again dominated by the coronavirus crisis

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  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,023
    First.
  • StonchStonch Posts: 43
    Is it time to leave London for those of us with somewhere else to go, I wonder. I today the last day to safely do so before it gets more difficult?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,453
    London does seem almost perfectly set up to spread the virus
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,023
    Pulpstar said:

    London does seem almost perfectly set up to spread the virus

    It seems to be spreading through the night time population rather than the day time population. That said, I'm glad to be working from home now.
  • StonchStonch Posts: 43
    I'm wondering what sort of restrictions are going to be put in place in terms of entering and leaving London during lockdown. I own a business (a pub) outside the capital but my real home is here
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,023
    https://tinyurl.com/wuq26ff

    When the French Tennis Federation (FFT) on Tuesday unilaterally tried to shift the second major of the season from May to September, supposedly to escape the threat of coronavirus but also clearly to secure the viability of their event later in the year, they were ready for a roasting by the ATP and the WTA, and this was it.

    “Now is not a time to act unilaterally, but in unison,” the ATP and the WTA said in a joint statement on Wednesday evening.


    Rafa is one slam behind The Fed. Will he get his chance to equal his record of 20 slams?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,776
    Stonch said:

    Is it time to leave London for those of us with somewhere else to go, I wonder. I today the last day to safely do so before it gets more difficult?

    Fox Jr coming home today. Will self isolate with us. Clinically well with no temperature. Will need to go clear out his lodgings in a few weeks time. He cannot pay his rent with no College until who knows when. Straight there and back, not touching anything else.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,620
    edited March 2020
    Stonch said:

    I'm wondering what sort of restrictions are going to be put in place in terms of entering and leaving London during lockdown. I own a business (a pub) outside the capital but my real home is here

    My guess is that a French style driving ban is more likely. We have already discussed the problems of a cordon, and with all the delivery and service vehicles needing to come in and out, checkpoints with long queues would be a nightmare. Much easier to say that within the North/South circular (for example) all car driving is banned other than certain key exceptions - key workers, who could be given some kind of colourful window pass. Then monitor this with spot checks, backed by London’s considerable array of CCTV and NNPR. On transport only those with a special pass are allowed on.

    If it’s going to happen, you’d do it on a Sunday. There will surely be chaos to begin with as the news won’t reach everyone at the same time.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,876
    No new infections reported in Hubei. Or Hokkaido in Japan.

    Australia and NZ to close borders for six months.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,876
    S Korea up again - 152 new cases yesterday.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,876
    edited March 2020
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,190
    Stonch said:

    Is it time to leave London for those of us with somewhere else to go, I wonder. I today the last day to safely do so before it gets more difficult?

    That's exactly how the virus will spread rapidly right across the country.

    Stay put.
  • StonchStonch Posts: 43

    Stonch said:

    Is it time to leave London for those of us with somewhere else to go, I wonder. I today the last day to safely do so before it gets more difficult?

    That's exactly how the virus will spread rapidly right across the country.

    Stay put.
    I've only been in London since Sunday and have self isolated
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,773
    Nigelb said:
    Trump's problem must be he is an uber-smart guy, surrounded by thick schmucks.

    Yeah, that must be it....
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,052
    There is now a shortage of the chemicals needed for the test in Germany, at least locally. Which would explain the examples of reluctance to test people I know of.

    It also maybe means no point in ending lock downs until testing capacity is able to meet demand.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,773
    If he hasn't been tested, with those symptoms it could still just be flu.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,124

    Nigelb said:
    Trump's problem must be he is an uber-smart guy, surrounded by thick schmucks.

    Yeah, that must be it....
    Trump is Dominic Cummings AICMFP.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,539
    Good morning, everyone.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,221
    of course it's all a load of bollocks
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,451
    What the virus crisis teaches us:
    1. The world is complex and interconnected.
    2. There are no easy solutions.
    3. Experts are absolutely essential.
    4. The market does not have all the answers.
    5. The state is a force for good.
    6. Populism is a fake prospectus.
    7. Solidarity wins.
    Discuss.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,867

    If he hasn't been tested, with those symptoms it could still just be flu.
    He's 73, anyone over 65 will have been offered the yearly flu vaccine.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,773

    If he hasn't been tested, with those symptoms it could still just be flu.
    He's 73, anyone over 65 will have been offered the yearly flu vaccine.
    Doesn't mean he took it. I know plenty who don't.

    Or maybe, didn't.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,023

    What the virus crisis teaches us:
    1. The world is complex and interconnected.
    2. There are no easy solutions.
    3. Experts are absolutely essential.
    4. The market does not have all the answers.
    5. The state is a force for good.
    6. Populism is a fake prospectus.
    7. Solidarity wins.
    Discuss.

    8. People who save for a rainy day are complete mugs?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,660

    If he hasn't been tested, with those symptoms it could still just be flu.
    If it’s the one I had, it’s still bloody nasty. I’ve never been so ill I had to take time off sick before. But this time I had no choice.

    Amusing incident in my return to work interview. The Deputy Head got a bit tongue twisted and asked how many days’ absence I had had in the last twelve years (she meant ‘twelve months’). I answered, ‘none,’ quite truthfully, and then added, ‘but if that’s the length of time sick leave is carried for, we need to talk!’
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,389
    IanB2 said:

    Stonch said:

    I'm wondering what sort of restrictions are going to be put in place in terms of entering and leaving London during lockdown. I own a business (a pub) outside the capital but my real home is here

    My guess is that a French style driving ban is more likely. We have already discussed the problems of a cordon, and with all the delivery and service vehicles needing to come in and out, checkpoints with long queues would be a nightmare. Much easier to say that within the North/South circular (for example) all car driving is banned other than certain key exceptions - key workers, who could be given some kind of colourful window pass. Then monitor this with spot checks, backed by London’s considerable array of CCTV and NNPR. On transport only those with a special pass are allowed on.

    If it’s going to happen, you’d do it on a Sunday. There will surely be chaos to begin with as the news won’t reach everyone at the same time.
    What about those who can only get to a place selling food by driving?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,660

    IanB2 said:

    Stonch said:

    I'm wondering what sort of restrictions are going to be put in place in terms of entering and leaving London during lockdown. I own a business (a pub) outside the capital but my real home is here

    My guess is that a French style driving ban is more likely. We have already discussed the problems of a cordon, and with all the delivery and service vehicles needing to come in and out, checkpoints with long queues would be a nightmare. Much easier to say that within the North/South circular (for example) all car driving is banned other than certain key exceptions - key workers, who could be given some kind of colourful window pass. Then monitor this with spot checks, backed by London’s considerable array of CCTV and NNPR. On transport only those with a special pass are allowed on.

    If it’s going to happen, you’d do it on a Sunday. There will surely be chaos to begin with as the news won’t reach everyone at the same time.
    What about those who can only get to a place selling food by driving?
    In London? Seems a bit unlikely. I could understand it in, say, Tavistock. But nowhere in London is totally out of reach on foot except perhaps for the disabled, who could easily be exempted on a blue badge basis.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,451

    What the virus crisis teaches us:
    1. The world is complex and interconnected.
    2. There are no easy solutions.
    3. Experts are absolutely essential.
    4. The market does not have all the answers.
    5. The state is a force for good.
    6. Populism is a fake prospectus.
    7. Solidarity wins.
    Discuss.

    It's remarkable how current events seem to reinforce views you already hold. I'm shocked.
    What have I got wrong?

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,539
    Mr. Observer, I'd certainly dispute point 5.

    The Chinese state sought to cover up the virus at outbreak, and its charming measures have included welding people into their homes. If that state had instead cracked down on trading rare animals and wet markets, this pandemic may very well never have happened.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,221

    What the virus crisis teaches us:
    1. The world is complex and interconnected.
    2. There are no easy solutions.
    3. Experts are absolutely essential.
    4. The market does not have all the answers.
    5. The state is a force for good.
    6. Populism is a fake prospectus.
    7. Solidarity wins.
    Discuss.

    Globalisation it isn't go well is it ?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,773
    tlg86 said:

    What the virus crisis teaches us:
    1. The world is complex and interconnected.
    2. There are no easy solutions.
    3. Experts are absolutely essential.
    4. The market does not have all the answers.
    5. The state is a force for good.
    6. Populism is a fake prospectus.
    7. Solidarity wins.
    Discuss.

    8. People who save for a rainy day are complete mugs?
    9. Hoarders have the last laugh.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,451

    Mr. Observer, I'd certainly dispute point 5.

    The Chinese state sought to cover up the virus at outbreak, and its charming measures have included welding people into their homes. If that state had instead cracked down on trading rare animals and wet markets, this pandemic may very well never have happened.

    That state, yep. And others, too. But it’s only the state that can deal with the consequences.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,221

    Mr. Observer, I'd certainly dispute point 5.

    The Chinese state sought to cover up the virus at outbreak, and its charming measures have included welding people into their homes. If that state had instead cracked down on trading rare animals and wet markets, this pandemic may very well never have happened.

    That state, yep. And others, too. But it’s only the state that can deal with the consequences.

    If as some claim the Chinese state caused coronavirus as it jumped from a research lab, is that a force for good ?

    North Korea the statiest of statists claims it has zero CV19, should we all imitate their system ?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,773

    Mr. Observer, I'd certainly dispute point 5.

    The Chinese state sought to cover up the virus at outbreak, and its charming measures have included welding people into their homes. If that state had instead cracked down on trading rare animals and wet markets, this pandemic may very well never have happened.

    That state, yep. And others, too. But it’s only the state that can deal with the consequences.

    If only the State had listened to your point 3.

    We are where we are because the State felt threatened by experts.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,522
    Nigelb said:
    It'll be Jared stopping DT from getting an across-the-board SUPERB.

    https://twitter.com/JasonSCampbell/status/1240421354530385926?s=20
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,451

    What the virus crisis teaches us:
    1. The world is complex and interconnected.
    2. There are no easy solutions.
    3. Experts are absolutely essential.
    4. The market does not have all the answers.
    5. The state is a force for good.
    6. Populism is a fake prospectus.
    7. Solidarity wins.
    Discuss.

    Globalisation it isn't go well is it ?
    It’s brought billions out of poverty but it cannot be left untrammelled, that is for sure.

  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,524
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    Stonch said:

    I'm wondering what sort of restrictions are going to be put in place in terms of entering and leaving London during lockdown. I own a business (a pub) outside the capital but my real home is here

    My guess is that a French style driving ban is more likely. We have already discussed the problems of a cordon, and with all the delivery and service vehicles needing to come in and out, checkpoints with long queues would be a nightmare. Much easier to say that within the North/South circular (for example) all car driving is banned other than certain key exceptions - key workers, who could be given some kind of colourful window pass. Then monitor this with spot checks, backed by London’s considerable array of CCTV and NNPR. On transport only those with a special pass are allowed on.

    If it’s going to happen, you’d do it on a Sunday. There will surely be chaos to begin with as the news won’t reach everyone at the same time.
    What about those who can only get to a place selling food by driving?
    In London? Seems a bit unlikely. I could understand it in, say, Tavistock. But nowhere in London is totally out of reach on foot except perhaps for the disabled, who could easily be exempted on a blue badge basis.
    My father drives, doesn't have a blue badge and is 94! Not sure that works for him
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,221
    edited March 2020

    Mr. Observer, I'd certainly dispute point 5.

    The Chinese state sought to cover up the virus at outbreak, and its charming measures have included welding people into their homes. If that state had instead cracked down on trading rare animals and wet markets, this pandemic may very well never have happened.

    That state, yep. And others, too. But it’s only the state that can deal with the consequences.

    Mr. Observer, I'd certainly dispute point 5.

    The Chinese state sought to cover up the virus at outbreak, and its charming measures have included welding people into their homes. If that state had instead cracked down on trading rare animals and wet markets, this pandemic may very well never have happened.

    That state, yep. And others, too. But it’s only the state that can deal with the consequences.

    lol society as a whole will deal with the outcome all the state is doing is trying to reach an outcome it cant guarantee.

    The state argument is simply another way of saying do we put all our eggs in one basket. Risk mitigation would tell you no.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,451

    Mr. Observer, I'd certainly dispute point 5.

    The Chinese state sought to cover up the virus at outbreak, and its charming measures have included welding people into their homes. If that state had instead cracked down on trading rare animals and wet markets, this pandemic may very well never have happened.

    That state, yep. And others, too. But it’s only the state that can deal with the consequences.

    Mr. Observer, I'd certainly dispute point 5.

    The Chinese state sought to cover up the virus at outbreak, and its charming measures have included welding people into their homes. If that state had instead cracked down on trading rare animals and wet markets, this pandemic may very well never have happened.

    That state, yep. And others, too. But it’s only the state that can deal with the consequences.

    lol society as a whole will deal with the outcome all the state is doing is trying to reach an outcome it cant guarantee.

    The state argument is simply another way of saying do we put all our eggs in one basket. Risk mitigation would tell you no.
    Yes, see point 7.

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    On the plus side, the government’s complete lack of an agenda for the next five years seems to have been solved.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,451

    Mr. Observer, I'd certainly dispute point 5.

    The Chinese state sought to cover up the virus at outbreak, and its charming measures have included welding people into their homes. If that state had instead cracked down on trading rare animals and wet markets, this pandemic may very well never have happened.

    That state, yep. And others, too. But it’s only the state that can deal with the consequences.

    If only the State had listened to your point 3.

    We are where we are because the State felt threatened by experts.
    Yep, that is for sure. Turns out we need experts and that we should listen to them.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,876

    Mr. Observer, I'd certainly dispute point 5.

    The Chinese state sought to cover up the virus at outbreak, and its charming measures have included welding people into their homes. If that state had instead cracked down on trading rare animals and wet markets, this pandemic may very well never have happened.

    Then you would be foolish, MD.
    No one is claiming that the state is the sole force for good; but without it, you are effectively back to being hunter gatherers.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,200

    IanB2 said:

    Stonch said:

    I'm wondering what sort of restrictions are going to be put in place in terms of entering and leaving London during lockdown. I own a business (a pub) outside the capital but my real home is here

    My guess is that a French style driving ban is more likely. We have already discussed the problems of a cordon, and with all the delivery and service vehicles needing to come in and out, checkpoints with long queues would be a nightmare. Much easier to say that within the North/South circular (for example) all car driving is banned other than certain key exceptions - key workers, who could be given some kind of colourful window pass. Then monitor this with spot checks, backed by London’s considerable array of CCTV and NNPR. On transport only those with a special pass are allowed on.

    If it’s going to happen, you’d do it on a Sunday. There will surely be chaos to begin with as the news won’t reach everyone at the same time.
    What about those who can only get to a place selling food by driving?
    Unless they are disabled no such place exists in London, and people with a disability badge would have an exemption anyway.
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123

    What the virus crisis teaches us:
    1. The world is complex and interconnected.
    2. There are no easy solutions.
    3. Experts are absolutely essential.
    4. The market does not have all the answers.
    5. The state is a force for good.
    6. Populism is a fake prospectus.
    7. Solidarity wins.
    Discuss.

    Here's mine:
    1) Nation states are the crucial power holders, supported by multilateral organisations.
    2) The vast majority of people are terrible at understanding risk including key decision makers.
    3) Traditional stories passed down through the ages are indeed universal truths. Bad news is not listened to.
    4) It takes societies about two months to gear itself up to do anything.
    5) There is a thin veneer of civilisation.
    6) Globalisation has a fundamental systemic risk built into it which is not factored in by its proponents.
    7) Experts need to constantly reassess their baseline assumptions.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,221

    Mr. Observer, I'd certainly dispute point 5.

    The Chinese state sought to cover up the virus at outbreak, and its charming measures have included welding people into their homes. If that state had instead cracked down on trading rare animals and wet markets, this pandemic may very well never have happened.

    That state, yep. And others, too. But it’s only the state that can deal with the consequences.

    Mr. Observer, I'd certainly dispute point 5.

    The Chinese state sought to cover up the virus at outbreak, and its charming measures have included welding people into their homes. If that state had instead cracked down on trading rare animals and wet markets, this pandemic may very well never have happened.

    That state, yep. And others, too. But it’s only the state that can deal with the consequences.

    lol society as a whole will deal with the outcome all the state is doing is trying to reach an outcome it cant guarantee.

    The state argument is simply another way of saying do we put all our eggs in one basket. Risk mitigation would tell you no.
    Yes, see point 7.

    all systems need the right to dissent, if the consensus is wrong it needs to be challenged and then corrected.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,451

    Mr. Observer, I'd certainly dispute point 5.

    The Chinese state sought to cover up the virus at outbreak, and its charming measures have included welding people into their homes. If that state had instead cracked down on trading rare animals and wet markets, this pandemic may very well never have happened.

    That state, yep. And others, too. But it’s only the state that can deal with the consequences.

    If as some claim the Chinese state caused coronavirus as it jumped from a research lab, is that a force for good ?

    North Korea the statiest of statists claims it has zero CV19, should we all imitate their system ?
    Nope.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,190
    Stonch said:

    Stonch said:

    Is it time to leave London for those of us with somewhere else to go, I wonder. I today the last day to safely do so before it gets more difficult?

    That's exactly how the virus will spread rapidly right across the country.

    Stay put.
    I've only been in London since Sunday and have self isolated
    Fair enough.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,451

    Mr. Observer, I'd certainly dispute point 5.

    The Chinese state sought to cover up the virus at outbreak, and its charming measures have included welding people into their homes. If that state had instead cracked down on trading rare animals and wet markets, this pandemic may very well never have happened.

    That state, yep. And others, too. But it’s only the state that can deal with the consequences.

    Mr. Observer, I'd certainly dispute point 5.

    The Chinese state sought to cover up the virus at outbreak, and its charming measures have included welding people into their homes. If that state had instead cracked down on trading rare animals and wet markets, this pandemic may very well never have happened.

    That state, yep. And others, too. But it’s only the state that can deal with the consequences.

    lol society as a whole will deal with the outcome all the state is doing is trying to reach an outcome it cant guarantee.

    The state argument is simply another way of saying do we put all our eggs in one basket. Risk mitigation would tell you no.
    Yes, see point 7.

    all systems need the right to dissent, if the consensus is wrong it needs to be challenged and then corrected.
    I agree.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,876

    of course it's all a load of bollocks

    You’ll have to be a bit more specific....
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,190

    On the plus side, the government’s complete lack of an agenda for the next five years seems to have been solved.

    The betting implications of this for the next general election are still unclear.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I’m not ready to draw too many lessons just yet.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,539
    Mr. B, I agree the nation-state is an essential part of modern society, but there's a pretty big gap between the Paleolithic and Mesolithic, and the nation-states as we might recognise them, which (depending on definition) might be said to only be a few centuries old.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,190

    Mr. Observer, I'd certainly dispute point 5.

    The Chinese state sought to cover up the virus at outbreak, and its charming measures have included welding people into their homes. If that state had instead cracked down on trading rare animals and wet markets, this pandemic may very well never have happened.

    That state, yep. And others, too. But it’s only the state that can deal with the consequences.

    If only the State had listened to your point 3.

    We are where we are because the State felt threatened by experts.
    I can see other countries refusing to do trade deals with China in future unless they seriously tighten up on animal welfare and hygiene.

    Some of the weird shit has to go.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,221
    Nigelb said:

    of course it's all a load of bollocks

    You’ll have to be a bit more specific....
    Im sharing a Universal Truth consider it the works of Sartre summed up in a sentence.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,876

    Mr. B, I agree the nation-state is an essential part of modern society, but there's a pretty big gap between the Paleolithic and Mesolithic, and the nation-states as we might recognise them, which (depending on definition) might be said to only be a few centuries old.

    “The state”, which is what we started discussing, is as old as civilisation.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Good grief. Are Leavers now complaining that governments haven’t listened to experts?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,876

    Nigelb said:

    of course it's all a load of bollocks

    You’ll have to be a bit more specific....
    Im sharing a Universal Truth consider it the works of Sartre summed up in a sentence.
    I find it difficult to refute, then.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    What the virus crisis teaches us:
    1. The world is complex and interconnected.
    2. There are no easy solutions.
    3. Experts are absolutely essential.
    4. The market does not have all the answers.
    5. The state is a force for good.
    6. Populism is a fake prospectus.
    7. Solidarity wins.
    Discuss.

    8. Moar Europe will cleanse us of germs
    9. China were just unlucky to cause this - let’s have a telethon for them.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Mr. Observer, I'd certainly dispute point 5.

    The Chinese state sought to cover up the virus at outbreak, and its charming measures have included welding people into their homes. If that state had instead cracked down on trading rare animals and wet markets, this pandemic may very well never have happened.

    Welding people into their homes is effective. It was the principal way of limiting spread of plague in London in 1665, except they didn't have much welding gear then so you shut the house up and put a watchman outside it.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,190

    Mr. Observer, I'd certainly dispute point 5.

    The Chinese state sought to cover up the virus at outbreak, and its charming measures have included welding people into their homes. If that state had instead cracked down on trading rare animals and wet markets, this pandemic may very well never have happened.

    That state, yep. And others, too. But it’s only the state that can deal with the consequences.

    If as some claim the Chinese state caused coronavirus as it jumped from a research lab, is that a force for good ?

    North Korea the statiest of statists claims it has zero CV19, should we all imitate their system ?
    It's the shittest conspiracy theory ever.

    "Let's design a virus that only kills the elderly and vulnerable and destroys the world economy! That will teach our enemies! Mwhahaha!"
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,200
    It's at times like this I'm glad to be Indian. We bulk buy as a rule and we went to Costco for essentials a couple of months before all of this started. Honestly, I don't understand people who don't bulk buy for basic items and canned goods. I got a year's worth of bog rolls, kitchen towels, facial tissues, wipes, soap, detergent, dishwasher tablets, hand wash for not very much money. Also stocked up on canned tomatoes, kidney beans, chick peas, various types of pasta, herbs and spices.

    It's not because I predicted this kind of bullshit would happen, it's just 30-40% cheaper to shop in this manner.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,190

    tlg86 said:

    What the virus crisis teaches us:
    1. The world is complex and interconnected.
    2. There are no easy solutions.
    3. Experts are absolutely essential.
    4. The market does not have all the answers.
    5. The state is a force for good.
    6. Populism is a fake prospectus.
    7. Solidarity wins.
    Discuss.

    8. People who save for a rainy day are complete mugs?
    9. Hoarders have the last laugh.
    10. Confirmation bias never dies.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,773

    Mr. Observer, I'd certainly dispute point 5.

    The Chinese state sought to cover up the virus at outbreak, and its charming measures have included welding people into their homes. If that state had instead cracked down on trading rare animals and wet markets, this pandemic may very well never have happened.

    That state, yep. And others, too. But it’s only the state that can deal with the consequences.

    If only the State had listened to your point 3.

    We are where we are because the State felt threatened by experts.
    I can see other countries refusing to do trade deals with China in future unless they seriously tighten up on animal welfare and hygiene.

    Some of the weird shit has to go.
    Let's hope they don't "discover" the cure for Covid-19 is rhino horn.....
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,190

    What the virus crisis teaches us:
    1. The world is complex and interconnected.
    2. There are no easy solutions.
    3. Experts are absolutely essential.
    4. The market does not have all the answers.
    5. The state is a force for good.
    6. Populism is a fake prospectus.
    7. Solidarity wins.
    Discuss.

    It's remarkable how current events seem to reinforce views you already hold. I'm shocked.
    That post is hilarious.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,221

    Good grief. Are Leavers now complaining that governments haven’t listened to experts?

    No different to Remainers saying they should be ignored, we live in a world of shape shifting
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,451

    Good grief. Are Leavers now complaining that governments haven’t listened to experts?

    Wonderful, isn’t it?
    :-D

  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Mr. Observer, I'd certainly dispute point 5.

    The Chinese state sought to cover up the virus at outbreak, and its charming measures have included welding people into their homes. If that state had instead cracked down on trading rare animals and wet markets, this pandemic may very well never have happened.

    That state, yep. And others, too. But it’s only the state that can deal with the consequences.

    If only the State had listened to your point 3.

    We are where we are because the State felt threatened by experts.
    I can see other countries refusing to do trade deals with China in future unless they seriously tighten up on animal welfare and hygiene.

    Which countries do you think will thumb their noses at economic activity with The Middle Kingdom as long as bat fritters are on the breakfast menu? I can't think of any...
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,221

    Mr. Observer, I'd certainly dispute point 5.

    The Chinese state sought to cover up the virus at outbreak, and its charming measures have included welding people into their homes. If that state had instead cracked down on trading rare animals and wet markets, this pandemic may very well never have happened.

    That state, yep. And others, too. But it’s only the state that can deal with the consequences.

    If as some claim the Chinese state caused coronavirus as it jumped from a research lab, is that a force for good ?

    North Korea the statiest of statists claims it has zero CV19, should we all imitate their system ?
    It's the shittest conspiracy theory ever.

    "Let's design a virus that only kills the elderly and vulnerable and destroys the world economy! That will teach our enemies! Mwhahaha!"
    That's not the contention, it's they were mucking around in a virology lab to see what developed and it escaped unintentionally. The paranoia is simply the internet getting in to gear
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,876
    PERSON UNDER CORONAVIRUS LOCKDOWN IN SPAIN TRIES TO LEAVE HOUSE DRESSED AS T. REX
    https://www.newsweek.com/coronavirus-covid19-spain-murcia-police-dinosaur-outfit-viral-video-twitter-1492654
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,221

    Mr. Observer, I'd certainly dispute point 5.

    The Chinese state sought to cover up the virus at outbreak, and its charming measures have included welding people into their homes. If that state had instead cracked down on trading rare animals and wet markets, this pandemic may very well never have happened.

    That state, yep. And others, too. But it’s only the state that can deal with the consequences.

    If only the State had listened to your point 3.

    We are where we are because the State felt threatened by experts.
    I can see other countries refusing to do trade deals with China in future unless they seriously tighten up on animal welfare and hygiene.

    Some of the weird shit has to go.
    Let's hope they don't "discover" the cure for Covid-19 is rhino horn.....
    what if its blowjobs ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,876
    This is a very small trial, but the results are very promising:
    https://twitter.com/JamesTodaroMD/status/1240314674358505473
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    edited March 2020
    If I can go all @eadric for a moment, I’m quite proud that I was early to spot the dangers of Covid-19 and have the thread headers to prove it. Though I underestimated how bad even the medium case scenario would be.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Nigelb said:

    PERSON UNDER CORONAVIRUS LOCKDOWN IN SPAIN TRIES TO LEAVE HOUSE DRESSED AS T. REX
    https://www.newsweek.com/coronavirus-covid19-spain-murcia-police-dinosaur-outfit-viral-video-twitter-1492654

    Police were alerted when he banged a gong.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,059
    Good morning everyone. I'm not a pessimist normally, but I wonder what new disasters await us today.

    Must try and find something to be positive about.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,469

    What the virus crisis teaches us:
    1. The world is complex and interconnected.
    2. There are no easy solutions.
    3. Experts are absolutely essential.
    4. The market does not have all the answers.
    5. The state is a force for good.
    6. Populism is a fake prospectus.
    7. Solidarity wins.
    Discuss.

    It's not one that I like, because it goes against all my political instincts, but,
    8. The vast majority of the benefits of travel accrue to the individual, while the vast majority of risks are borne by the group.
    There is likely to be a backlash against this.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,190

    What the virus crisis teaches us:
    1. The world is complex and interconnected.
    2. There are no easy solutions.
    3. Experts are absolutely essential.
    4. The market does not have all the answers.
    5. The state is a force for good.
    6. Populism is a fake prospectus.
    7. Solidarity wins.
    Discuss.

    It's remarkable how current events seem to reinforce views you already hold. I'm shocked.
    What have I got wrong?

    1. Globalisation has led to efficiency but not resilience. We've chosen to be that interconnected.
    2. Yes. Which goes against some of your other subsequent black & white points.
    3. In their field of professional expertise, yes, but they can be subject to mistakes and incorrect assumptions just like the rest of us. Politicians decide.
    4. The market works well. We have a mixed economy. Arguing against anarcho capitalism is a straw man.
    5. Nation states are what matters when the chips are down. We're finding out there's no such thing as a citizen of the world.
    6. Non sequitur. Although I note some of globalisation's greatest and richest proponents (Branson) are the first to put out the begging bowl.
    7. National solidarity and neighborliness is what this crisis is bringing out. See Italians singing their anthem and waving flags out of windows. And others are a bit selfish. It's a bit like WW2 in civilian spirit.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,539
    edited March 2020
    Mr. B, the state referred to is clearly the nation-state.

    Natufian villages cannot possibly be compared to modern day states.

    Mr. Meeks, yeah, I thought it might disrupt things earlier than others (cf the tip on Hamilton getting under 21 points finishes this year) but dramatically underestimated the impact.

    Edited extra bit: for those interested about the Natufi:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natufian_culture
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,876
    (Guardian) Capital Economics have predicted that the UK economy could shrink by around 15% in the next three months, as Covid-19 triggers a “big recession”.

    That would be a staggering drop in economic activity, inflicting real pain on millions of people.

    For comparison, the UK shrank by 6% during and after the 2008 financial crisis -- and that was spread across more than a year.

    In a new research note, chief economist Paul Dales says:

    By asking the public to work from home where possible and to avoid pubs, theatres and other social venues, the UK government has implemented measures to contain the spread of the coronavirus that will significantly reduce economic activity. Lots of business activity will continue in some form, but lots won’t. Hiring and investment decisions will be put on ice or cancelled. Households won’t spend much on non-essential items.

    With the peak of the virus yet to come, it is clear we are in the early days of a big recession. As such, our previous forecast that GDP would fall by 2.5% q/q in Q2 is no longer fit for purpose.

    With large parts of the economy at a standstill - GDP could fall by between 10% and 20%, they believe (thus a 15% ‘split the difference’ estimate)

    Faced with such an economic calamity, Capital Economics predict the government will need to act as a backstop for banks and other sectors to prevent a deeper and longer-lasting recession.

    A rapid V-shaped recovery no longer looks likely, given the job losses and company failures we’re already seeing. So it could take until the end of 2021 for the economy to reach its current size again, Dales fears.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,776
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,012
    Stonch said:

    Is it time to leave London for those of us with somewhere else to go, I wonder. I today the last day to safely do so before it gets more difficult?

    If you can get out run.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,221
    Nigelb said:

    (Guardian) Capital Economics have predicted that the UK economy could shrink by around 15% in the next three months, as Covid-19 triggers a “big recession”.

    That would be a staggering drop in economic activity, inflicting real pain on millions of people.

    For comparison, the UK shrank by 6% during and after the 2008 financial crisis -- and that was spread across more than a year.

    In a new research note, chief economist Paul Dales says:

    By asking the public to work from home where possible and to avoid pubs, theatres and other social venues, the UK government has implemented measures to contain the spread of the coronavirus that will significantly reduce economic activity. Lots of business activity will continue in some form, but lots won’t. Hiring and investment decisions will be put on ice or cancelled. Households won’t spend much on non-essential items.

    With the peak of the virus yet to come, it is clear we are in the early days of a big recession. As such, our previous forecast that GDP would fall by 2.5% q/q in Q2 is no longer fit for purpose.

    With large parts of the economy at a standstill - GDP could fall by between 10% and 20%, they believe (thus a 15% ‘split the difference’ estimate)

    Faced with such an economic calamity, Capital Economics predict the government will need to act as a backstop for banks and other sectors to prevent a deeper and longer-lasting recession.

    A rapid V-shaped recovery no longer looks likely, given the job losses and company failures we’re already seeing. So it could take until the end of 2021 for the economy to reach its current size again, Dales fears.

    its a guess like all other economic forecasts. he has no real knowledge of what will happen any more than you or I.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,059
    MaxPB said:

    It's at times like this I'm glad to be Indian. We bulk buy as a rule and we went to Costco for essentials a couple of months before all of this started. Honestly, I don't understand people who don't bulk buy for basic items and canned goods. I got a year's worth of bog rolls, kitchen towels, facial tissues, wipes, soap, detergent, dishwasher tablets, hand wash for not very much money. Also stocked up on canned tomatoes, kidney beans, chick peas, various types of pasta, herbs and spices.

    It's not because I predicted this kind of bullshit would happen, it's just 30-40% cheaper to shop in this manner.

    Where the @£$% does one store a years supply of bog rolls in a two bed flat?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,012
    For sure , but what he describes as symptoms is also exactly what you get if you get a real Flu, so he may well be ok.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,190
    MaxPB said:

    It's at times like this I'm glad to be Indian. We bulk buy as a rule and we went to Costco for essentials a couple of months before all of this started. Honestly, I don't understand people who don't bulk buy for basic items and canned goods. I got a year's worth of bog rolls, kitchen towels, facial tissues, wipes, soap, detergent, dishwasher tablets, hand wash for not very much money. Also stocked up on canned tomatoes, kidney beans, chick peas, various types of pasta, herbs and spices.

    It's not because I predicted this kind of bullshit would happen, it's just 30-40% cheaper to shop in this manner.

    Likely to be more commonplace in future.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,663
    edited March 2020
    Nigelb said:

    PERSON UNDER CORONAVIRUS LOCKDOWN IN SPAIN TRIES TO LEAVE HOUSE DRESSED AS T. REX
    https://www.newsweek.com/coronavirus-covid19-spain-murcia-police-dinosaur-outfit-viral-video-twitter-1492654

    One of my team is from Murcia - we were all weeing ourselves laughing at this on Tuesday the last time we were all in the office - seems like a lifetime ago already...
    MaxPB said:

    It's at times like this I'm glad to be Indian. We bulk buy as a rule and we went to Costco for essentials a couple of months before all of this started. Honestly, I don't understand people who don't bulk buy for basic items and canned goods. I got a year's worth of bog rolls, kitchen towels, facial tissues, wipes, soap, detergent, dishwasher tablets, hand wash for not very much money. Also stocked up on canned tomatoes, kidney beans, chick peas, various types of pasta, herbs and spices.

    It's not because I predicted this kind of bullshit would happen, it's just 30-40% cheaper to shop in this manner.

    Not Indian, just tight. We bulk buy when stuff is on deal, though not from Costco having done a detailed comparison of Costco vs mults and found mults to be cheaper. However, I do have a large unopened pack of toilet rolls bought before this kicked off. Am willing to swap for a Lamborghini or Kylie Minogue.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,190
    Nigelb said:

    (Guardian) Capital Economics have predicted that the UK economy could shrink by around 15% in the next three months, as Covid-19 triggers a “big recession”.

    That would be a staggering drop in economic activity, inflicting real pain on millions of people.

    For comparison, the UK shrank by 6% during and after the 2008 financial crisis -- and that was spread across more than a year.

    In a new research note, chief economist Paul Dales says:

    By asking the public to work from home where possible and to avoid pubs, theatres and other social venues, the UK government has implemented measures to contain the spread of the coronavirus that will significantly reduce economic activity. Lots of business activity will continue in some form, but lots won’t. Hiring and investment decisions will be put on ice or cancelled. Households won’t spend much on non-essential items.

    With the peak of the virus yet to come, it is clear we are in the early days of a big recession. As such, our previous forecast that GDP would fall by 2.5% q/q in Q2 is no longer fit for purpose.

    With large parts of the economy at a standstill - GDP could fall by between 10% and 20%, they believe (thus a 15% ‘split the difference’ estimate)

    Faced with such an economic calamity, Capital Economics predict the government will need to act as a backstop for banks and other sectors to prevent a deeper and longer-lasting recession.

    A rapid V-shaped recovery no longer looks likely, given the job losses and company failures we’re already seeing. So it could take until the end of 2021 for the economy to reach its current size again, Dales fears.

    That's a depression (hopefully a very temporary one) not a recession.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,059
    Reason to be cheerful; tried to contact son-in-law, but he's texted to say he's very busy at work. His form sells low weight building supplies, many of which can be used for isolation, such as face masks.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,190

    What the virus crisis teaches us:
    1. The world is complex and interconnected.
    2. There are no easy solutions.
    3. Experts are absolutely essential.
    4. The market does not have all the answers.
    5. The state is a force for good.
    6. Populism is a fake prospectus.
    7. Solidarity wins.
    Discuss.

    It's not one that I like, because it goes against all my political instincts, but,
    8. The vast majority of the benefits of travel accrue to the individual, while the vast majority of risks are borne by the group.
    There is likely to be a backlash against this.
    I think globalisation benefits (eventually) low income earners in poor countries *and* the internationally mobile and rich, who it makes super mobile and hyper rich. You therefore get a perfect populist reactive blend in western countries against the economic consequences *and* the social and cultural ones.

    This will double down on things like Brexit and Corbynism.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    Dura_Ace said:

    Mr. Observer, I'd certainly dispute point 5.

    The Chinese state sought to cover up the virus at outbreak, and its charming measures have included welding people into their homes. If that state had instead cracked down on trading rare animals and wet markets, this pandemic may very well never have happened.

    That state, yep. And others, too. But it’s only the state that can deal with the consequences.

    If only the State had listened to your point 3.

    We are where we are because the State felt threatened by experts.
    I can see other countries refusing to do trade deals with China in future unless they seriously tighten up on animal welfare and hygiene.

    Which countries do you think will thumb their noses at economic activity with The Middle Kingdom as long as bat fritters are on the breakfast menu? I can't think of any...
    Consumers could well lead the way once more - what could be more woke than boycotting goods from a pandemic creating, fluffy mammal munching , coal power station building , authoritarian nation that refuses to pay reparations for its Viro-colonialism ?

    When the Olympics is eventually held all chinese athletes should be booed.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,164
    MaxPB said:

    It's at times like this I'm glad to be Indian. We bulk buy as a rule and we went to Costco for essentials a couple of months before all of this started. Honestly, I don't understand people who don't bulk buy for basic items and canned goods. I got a year's worth of bog rolls, kitchen towels, facial tissues, wipes, soap, detergent, dishwasher tablets, hand wash for not very much money. Also stocked up on canned tomatoes, kidney beans, chick peas, various types of pasta, herbs and spices.

    It's not because I predicted this kind of bullshit would happen, it's just 30-40% cheaper to shop in this manner.

    It is kind of weird, even in the normal supermarkets plenty of toiletries are £3 for 9 months of the year then £1.50 on offer for 3 months during sales. Most people still just buy them when they need them, effectively working twice as long as needed to purchase them. It really doesnt take much planning to make big reductions in your supermarket costs. Yet many of the same people are happy to argue so much about whether we can afford a 1% tax cut/increase.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,164
    TGOHF666 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Mr. Observer, I'd certainly dispute point 5.

    The Chinese state sought to cover up the virus at outbreak, and its charming measures have included welding people into their homes. If that state had instead cracked down on trading rare animals and wet markets, this pandemic may very well never have happened.

    That state, yep. And others, too. But it’s only the state that can deal with the consequences.

    If only the State had listened to your point 3.

    We are where we are because the State felt threatened by experts.
    I can see other countries refusing to do trade deals with China in future unless they seriously tighten up on animal welfare and hygiene.

    Which countries do you think will thumb their noses at economic activity with The Middle Kingdom as long as bat fritters are on the breakfast menu? I can't think of any...
    Consumers could well lead the way once more - what could be more woke than boycotting goods from a pandemic creating, fluffy mammal munching , coal power station building , authoritarian nation that refuses to pay reparations for its Viro-colonialism ?

    When the Olympics is eventually held all chinese athletes should be booed.
    Its not like anything bad might happen by raising tensions between China and Japan, of course not......
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,469

    What the virus crisis teaches us:
    1. The world is complex and interconnected.
    2. There are no easy solutions.
    3. Experts are absolutely essential.
    4. The market does not have all the answers.
    5. The state is a force for good.
    6. Populism is a fake prospectus.
    7. Solidarity wins.
    Discuss.

    It's not one that I like, because it goes against all my political instincts, but,
    8. The vast majority of the benefits of travel accrue to the individual, while the vast majority of risks are borne by the group.
    There is likely to be a backlash against this.
    Oh and, unfortunately, I reckon this means London and the UK are in big long-term economic trouble.
    London's success has come in part from being a global city and a safe haven in a globalised world. But that came about in a world that assumed you could travel at will (if you had the financial means). Now that world has gone, the money is flowing out of London.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,453
    We might find out how much of the economy is based on people buying stuff they don't need with money they don't have.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,190

    Mr. Observer, I'd certainly dispute point 5.

    The Chinese state sought to cover up the virus at outbreak, and its charming measures have included welding people into their homes. If that state had instead cracked down on trading rare animals and wet markets, this pandemic may very well never have happened.

    That state, yep. And others, too. But it’s only the state that can deal with the consequences.

    If as some claim the Chinese state caused coronavirus as it jumped from a research lab, is that a force for good ?

    North Korea the statiest of statists claims it has zero CV19, should we all imitate their system ?
    It's the shittest conspiracy theory ever.

    "Let's design a virus that only kills the elderly and vulnerable and destroys the world economy! That will teach our enemies! Mwhahaha!"
    That's not the contention, it's they were mucking around in a virology lab to see what developed and it escaped unintentionally. The paranoia is simply the internet getting in to gear
    Yeah, and like all conspiracy theories it evolves to circumvent the most credible rebuttals.

    The idea Chinese scientists just "muck around" in labs to see what viral weapons they can come up with is a lot of nonsense.

    This has jumped over to humans from bats who are great incubators of viruses -and maybe pandolins - as has been well documented.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 16,985
    Boris Johnson probably devoted more attention to the Brexit 50p coin and the lack of the Westminster bongs than he did on how to prepare the country for the worst epidemic for 100 years that was already ravishing Asia.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    TGOHF666 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Mr. Observer, I'd certainly dispute point 5.

    The Chinese state sought to cover up the virus at outbreak, and its charming measures have included welding people into their homes. If that state had instead cracked down on trading rare animals and wet markets, this pandemic may very well never have happened.

    That state, yep. And others, too. But it’s only the state that can deal with the consequences.

    If only the State had listened to your point 3.

    We are where we are because the State felt threatened by experts.
    I can see other countries refusing to do trade deals with China in future unless they seriously tighten up on animal welfare and hygiene.

    Which countries do you think will thumb their noses at economic activity with The Middle Kingdom as long as bat fritters are on the breakfast menu? I can't think of any...
    Consumers could well lead the way once more - what could be more woke than boycotting goods from a pandemic creating, fluffy mammal munching , coal power station building , authoritarian nation that refuses to pay reparations for its Viro-colonialism ?

    When the Olympics is eventually held all chinese athletes should be booed.
    Yes, let's all swap our iphones for domestic equivalents lovingly hand-crafted by small artisan cooperatives in the Forest of Dean.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,190
    Dura_Ace said:

    Mr. Observer, I'd certainly dispute point 5.

    The Chinese state sought to cover up the virus at outbreak, and its charming measures have included welding people into their homes. If that state had instead cracked down on trading rare animals and wet markets, this pandemic may very well never have happened.

    That state, yep. And others, too. But it’s only the state that can deal with the consequences.

    If only the State had listened to your point 3.

    We are where we are because the State felt threatened by experts.
    I can see other countries refusing to do trade deals with China in future unless they seriously tighten up on animal welfare and hygiene.

    Which countries do you think will thumb their noses at economic activity with The Middle Kingdom as long as bat fritters are on the breakfast menu? I can't think of any...
    USA, UK, EU .. and plenty of others.

    They might even coordinate at the WTO.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,190

    I’m not ready to draw too many lessons just yet.

    Except with Brexit.

    You're the only person on this site (the only one) still totally obsessed by it.

    That makes you a real fanatic and weirdo.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,164

    Dura_Ace said:

    Mr. Observer, I'd certainly dispute point 5.

    The Chinese state sought to cover up the virus at outbreak, and its charming measures have included welding people into their homes. If that state had instead cracked down on trading rare animals and wet markets, this pandemic may very well never have happened.

    That state, yep. And others, too. But it’s only the state that can deal with the consequences.

    If only the State had listened to your point 3.

    We are where we are because the State felt threatened by experts.
    I can see other countries refusing to do trade deals with China in future unless they seriously tighten up on animal welfare and hygiene.

    Which countries do you think will thumb their noses at economic activity with The Middle Kingdom as long as bat fritters are on the breakfast menu? I can't think of any...
    USA, UK, EU .. and plenty of others.

    They might even coordinate at the WTO.
    Is this the same WTO the US are actively trying to make impotent and/or close down by blocking the appointment of judges?
This discussion has been closed.