Miss Cyclefree, indeed. That's the key point. It should be addressed today.
Especially knotty are self-employed people whose job requires their on-site presence (plumbers, electricians, etc).
Frankly it should have been addressed yesterday, as Macron did.
Today will show us if Boris and Sunak really understand the scale of what they are facing and are up to it. I fear not.
I've been pretty impressed with Macrons announced plans. As much time spent talking about how they intend to prevent economic collapse as they do talking about the health aspects. A whole raft of measures. No one will be allowed to go bankrupt, defers on lots of business taxes and even rents, emergency benefits that don't require companies to fire employees. Where the money will come from is of course the next question but this is probably one of the only times when it is better to overpromise (in terms of short term reassurement) .
Only be people who didn't understand what was happening. The British government was forecasting this shutdown all along when the time was right. Time is right now.
And this is the trick that vultures like Stewart and John Ashton can jump on. They call for something they know is going to happen soon (as the government have essentially said they’ll do it), and then when they try to time it based on the data, they cry “we told you so, we were right all along”.
Exactly.
CSO "We will need to lockdown, but its important we don't do it too early, its coming when the time is right." Angry fools: "Lockdown now! WTF don't you care?"
CSO "The situation is escalating. We will need to lockdown, but its important we don't do it too early, its coming when the time is right." Angry fools: "Lockdown now! WTF don't you care?"
CSO "The situation is escalating. We will need to lockdown soon, but its important we don't do it too early, its coming when the time is right." Angry fools: "Lockdown now! WTF don't you care?"
CSO "The time has come, we need to lockdown now." Angry fools: "Ha ha ha look at that u-turn!"
1) It is now apparent from the IC report that it was a mistake not to lock down immediately. We should have locked down immediately; the so-called "angry fools" were correct. The data from Italy shows that mitigation was not the optimum strategy after all. While people do make mistakes, it is simply wrong for you to claim that all is going to plan.
2) We still haven't locked down. My lad is at school today.
School shut downs can make transmission worse not better.
If we close the schools it will have a knock-on effect on the availability of many key workers (ie, health, police) who are parents. This has to be thought through. Angry fools don't tend to do that.
We basically need less people spouting whatever the government is saying, and more independent thinking.
Look; I don’t want to question the govt. My natural inclination is indeed to follow the line and I’m not interested in political partisanship garbage like #boristhebutcher.
But the government has been caught out as sleeping, or complacent, or arrogant. Or all three.
I am not clamouring for “lockdowns” nor for school closures. If I am clamouring for anything, it is the economics. We need what @MaxPB posted upthread, but my fear is that the govt will attempt half measures.
We basically need less people spouting whatever the government is saying, and more independent thinking.
and yet that wasn't your approach on Brexit. Why the change ?
In both cases am simply looking at what facts are available. The problem with Brexit is that it is/was largely superstition.
The better analogy would be if I was on here arguing for increased homeopathy to combat coronavirus.
No the bit you never got about Brexit is what worked for you didn't work for the majority of citizens.
WFH update: Teams is currently ok but WebEx seems to be collapsing. The latter is important as it's the preferred platform of at least one government department.
One of the impacts of the Coronavirus is going to be to emphasise that taking companies private with massive amounts of debt is not without risk.
Private debt funds who funded highly leveraged buyouts are going to get absolutely hammered. These funds often levered themselves too, and were seen as low risk ways for high net worths individuals to get 6-7% yields. They're going to be slammed.
Only be people who didn't understand what was happening. The British government was forecasting this shutdown all along when the time was right. Time is right now.
And this is the trick that vultures like Stewart and John Ashton can jump on. They call for something they know is going to happen soon (as the government have essentially said they’ll do it), and then when they try to time it based on the data, they cry “we told you so, we were right all along”.
Exactly.
CSO "We will need to lockdown, but its important we don't do it too early, its coming when the time is right." Angry fools: "Lockdown now! WTF don't you care?"
CSO "The situation is escalating. We will need to lockdown, but its important we don't do it too early, its coming when the time is right." Angry fools: "Lockdown now! WTF don't you care?"
CSO "The situation is escalating. We will need to lockdown soon, but its important we don't do it too early, its coming when the time is right." Angry fools: "Lockdown now! WTF don't you care?"
CSO "The time has come, we need to lockdown now." Angry fools: "Ha ha ha look at that u-turn!"
1) It is now apparent from the IC report that it was a mistake not to lock down immediately. We should have locked down immediately; the so-called "angry fools" were correct. The data from Italy shows that mitigation was not the optimum strategy after all. While people do make mistakes, it is simply wrong for you to claim that all is going to plan.
2) We still haven't locked down. My lad is at school today.
School shut downs can make transmission worse not better.
The modelling in the Imperial paper suggests otherwise.
We basically need less people spouting whatever the government is saying, and more independent thinking.
Look; I don’t want to question the govt. My natural inclination is indeed to follow the line and I’m not interested in political partisanship garbage like #boristhebutcher.
But the government has been caught out as sleeping, or complacent, or arrogant. Or all three.
I am not clamouring for “lockdowns” nor for school closures. If I am clamouring for anything, it is the economics. We need what @MaxPB posted upthread, but my fear is that the govt will attempt half measures.
We basically need less people spouting whatever the government is saying, and more independent thinking.
and yet that wasn't your approach on Brexit. Why the change ?
In both cases am simply looking at what facts are available. The problem with Brexit is that it is/was largely superstition.
The better analogy would be if I was on here arguing for increased homeopathy to combat coronavirus.
No the bit you never got about Brexit is what worked for you didn't work for the majority of citizens.
Yes, I preferred a solution not designed to cater for race-baiters and homeopaths. Ultimately the majority disagreed with me via a fatally flawed referendum.
We basically need less people spouting whatever the government is saying, and more independent thinking.
Look; I don’t want to question the govt. My natural inclination is indeed to follow the line and I’m not interested in political partisanship garbage like #boristhebutcher.
But the government has been caught out as sleeping, or complacent, or arrogant. Or all three.
I am not clamouring for “lockdowns” nor for school closures. If I am clamouring for anything, it is the economics. We need what @MaxPB posted upthread, but my fear is that the govt will attempt half measures.
We basically need less people spouting whatever the government is saying, and more independent thinking.
and yet that wasn't your approach on Brexit. Why the change ?
In both cases am simply looking at what facts are available. The problem with Brexit is that it is/was largely superstition.
The better analogy would be if I was on here arguing for increased homeopathy to combat coronavirus.
WFH update: Teams is currently ok but WebEx seems to be collapsing. The latter is important as it's the preferred platform of at least one government department.
WebEx always seemed like an incredibly expensive way to get the same functionality as Zoom/Google Meet.
Boris dad on Philip Schofield’s now saying if he wants to go to the pub he will. And it’s live!
no he wont because they will be closed down from the weekend i suspect.
And Stanley will be out of ‘over 70’ isolation again complaining!
Who gives a fuck about Boris's dad? Not even sure Boris does.
I’d always back my family in public. Or at least not suggest they were talking rubbish. What I might say over the dining room table could well be different!
Only be people who didn't understand what was happening. The British government was forecasting this shutdown all along when the time was right. Time is right now.
And this is the trick that vultures like Stewart and John Ashton can jump on. They call for something they know is going to happen soon (as the government have essentially said they’ll do it), and then when they try to time it based on the data, they cry “we told you so, we were right all along”.
Exactly.
CSO "We will need to lockdown, but its important we don't do it too early, its coming when the time is right." Angry fools: "Lockdown now! WTF don't you care?"
CSO "The situation is escalating. We will need to lockdown, but its important we don't do it too early, its coming when the time is right." Angry fools: "Lockdown now! WTF don't you care?"
CSO "The situation is escalating. We will need to lockdown soon, but its important we don't do it too early, its coming when the time is right." Angry fools: "Lockdown now! WTF don't you care?"
CSO "The time has come, we need to lockdown now." Angry fools: "Ha ha ha look at that u-turn!"
1) It is now apparent from the IC report that it was a mistake not to lock down immediately. We should have locked down immediately; the so-called "angry fools" were correct. The data from Italy shows that mitigation was not the optimum strategy after all. While people do make mistakes, it is simply wrong for you to claim that all is going to plan.
2) We still haven't locked down. My lad is at school today.
School shut downs can make transmission worse not better.
If we close the schools it will have a knock-on effect on the availability of many key workers (ie, health, police) who are parents. This has to be thought through. Angry fools don't tend to do that.
The risk is that asymptomatic kids act as transmitters of the disease without suffering it themselves.
Here in LA, the schools have been closed, but they've got drop in centres (with food) for those who need them. The idea is that you cut the number of kids mingling by 80% and that's better than having them all together every day.
We basically need less people spouting whatever the government is saying, and more independent thinking.
Look; I don’t want to question the govt. My natural inclination is indeed to follow the line and I’m not interested in political partisanship garbage like #boristhebutcher.
But the government has been caught out as sleeping, or complacent, or arrogant. Or all three.
I am not clamouring for “lockdowns” nor for school closures. If I am clamouring for anything, it is the economics. We need what @MaxPB posted upthread, but my fear is that the govt will attempt half measures.
We basically need less people spouting whatever the government is saying, and more independent thinking.
and yet that wasn't your approach on Brexit. Why the change ?
In both cases am simply looking at what facts are available. The problem with Brexit is that it is/was largely superstition.
The better analogy would be if I was on here arguing for increased homeopathy to combat coronavirus.
No the bit you never got about Brexit is what worked for you didn't work for the majority of citizens.
Yes, I preferred a solution not designed to cater for race-baiters and homeopaths. Ultimately the majority disagreed with me via a fatally flawed referendum.
Except of course that's not what people voted on, they voted on what do I think will be best for me - same as yourself. And in the old set up more people thought the system worked against them than for them.
Only be people who didn't understand what was happening. The British government was forecasting this shutdown all along when the time was right. Time is right now.
And this is the trick that vultures like Stewart and John Ashton can jump on. They call for something they know is going to happen soon (as the government have essentially said they’ll do it), and then when they try to time it based on the data, they cry “we told you so, we were right all along”.
Exactly.
CSO "We will need to lockdown, but its important we don't do it too early, its coming when the time is right." Angry fools: "Lockdown now! WTF don't you care?"
CSO "The situation is escalating. We will need to lockdown, but its important we don't do it too early, its coming when the time is right." Angry fools: "Lockdown now! WTF don't you care?"
CSO "The situation is escalating. We will need to lockdown soon, but its important we don't do it too early, its coming when the time is right." Angry fools: "Lockdown now! WTF don't you care?"
CSO "The time has come, we need to lockdown now." Angry fools: "Ha ha ha look at that u-turn!"
1) It is now apparent from the IC report that it was a mistake not to lock down immediately. We should have locked down immediately; the so-called "angry fools" were correct. The data from Italy shows that mitigation was not the optimum strategy after all. While people do make mistakes, it is simply wrong for you to claim that all is going to plan.
2) We still haven't locked down. My lad is at school today.
School shut downs can make transmission worse not better.
The modelling in the Imperial paper suggests otherwise.
The reality in Italy backs my thought and so does concerns about keeping this away from the over 70s (many of whom will be asked to babysit children if schools are shut imminently and parents need to work).
The government needs all sorts of complex modelling. EG is it better to have 10 children and 10 over 70s sick or 20 children, 20 parents and no over 70s sick?
If schools and nurseries are shut down then some form of childcare that DOES NOT involve over 70s looking after children needs to be found and that can't happen without some planning, and would likely end up with something very similar to schools in the first place.
Miss Cyclefree, indeed. That's the key point. It should be addressed today.
Especially knotty are self-employed people whose job requires their on-site presence (plumbers, electricians, etc).
Frankly it should have been addressed yesterday, as Macron did.
Today will show us if Boris and Sunak really understand the scale of what they are facing and are up to it. I fear not.
I've been pretty impressed with Macrons announced plans. As much time spent talking about how they intend to prevent economic collapse as they do talking about the health aspects. A whole raft of measures. No one will be allowed to go bankrupt, defers on lots of business taxes and even rents, emergency benefits that don't require companies to fire employees. Where the money will come from is of course the next question but this is probably one of the only times when it is better to overpromise (in terms of short term reassurement) .
His 14 day lockdown won't be enough though.
Still a start and a lot better than our lot are doing
WFH update: Teams is currently ok but WebEx seems to be collapsing. The latter is important as it's the preferred platform of at least one government department.
WebEx always seemed like an incredibly expensive way to get the same functionality as Zoom/Google Meet.
Miss Cyclefree, indeed. That's the key point. It should be addressed today.
Especially knotty are self-employed people whose job requires their on-site presence (plumbers, electricians, etc).
Frankly it should have been addressed yesterday, as Macron did.
Today will show us if Boris and Sunak really understand the scale of what they are facing and are up to it. I fear not.
Translation - 'nothing the government do or don't do will satisfy me as I intend to snipe from the sidelines'
The failure of government to think through the economic consequences of its advice yesterday is very telling and betrays an essential incompetence in its decision-makers at the highest level.
It doesn't help that the Prime Minister in his wisdom decided to sack the man who was showing signs of independent thought and replace him with a pliant yes-man.
My expectation is that we'll see an inadequate package then further half baked revisions of it until they are eventually pushed to the big response the situation demands
Thanks. He's in the ICU so getting a lot of care and attention. But it's never a good place to be.
Visiting ICU is never pleasant.
My mother spent two weeks in ICU and another two in HDU afterwards thanks to pneumonia about 6 years ago. She is over 80 now. My mother-in-law is 94 and very frail. Each winter she finds it harder and harder to shake off normal flus or colds.
Sadly they are at opposite ends of the country and I can only be in one place at a time.
Only be people who didn't understand what was happening. The British government was forecasting this shutdown all along when the time was right. Time is right now.
And this is the trick that vultures like Stewart and John Ashton can jump on. They call for something they know is going to happen soon (as the government have essentially said they’ll do it), and then when they try to time it based on the data, they cry “we told you so, we were right all along”.
Exactly.
CSO "We will need to lockdown, but its important we don't do it too early, its coming when the time is right." Angry fools: "Lockdown now! WTF don't you care?"
CSO "The situation is escalating. We will need to lockdown, but its important we don't do it too early, its coming when the time is right." Angry fools: "Lockdown now! WTF don't you care?"
CSO "The situation is escalating. We will need to lockdown soon, but its important we don't do it too early, its coming when the time is right." Angry fools: "Lockdown now! WTF don't you care?"
CSO "The time has come, we need to lockdown now." Angry fools: "Ha ha ha look at that u-turn!"
1) It is now apparent from the IC report that it was a mistake not to lock down immediately. We should have locked down immediately; the so-called "angry fools" were correct. The data from Italy shows that mitigation was not the optimum strategy after all. While people do make mistakes, it is simply wrong for you to claim that all is going to plan.
2) We still haven't locked down. My lad is at school today.
School shut downs can make transmission worse not better.
Rubbish, that was only on the hypothesis that children don't spread the virus. Now we know that they most definitely do (see the Italian article linked to above/below for one).
Here's something a bit constructive people can do - learn to make sauerkraut. Reasons. 1. Amazingly nutritious and high in vitamin C - fermentation makes the nutrients more bioavailable 2. Delicious 3. Full of beneficial bacteria to look after your gut microbiome, which is part of a healthy immune system 3. A natural form of preservation, will last and last, but be WAY healthier than tinned foods 4. Panic buyers are avoiding fresh cabbages.
You'll need a Kilner jar or similar, salt (better quality the better), and potentially a small quantity of natural yoghurt to kick start the process.
Miss Cyclefree, indeed. That's the key point. It should be addressed today.
Especially knotty are self-employed people whose job requires their on-site presence (plumbers, electricians, etc).
Frankly it should have been addressed yesterday, as Macron did.
Today will show us if Boris and Sunak really understand the scale of what they are facing and are up to it. I fear not.
Translation - 'nothing the government do or don't do will satisfy me as I intend to snipe from the sidelines'
To be fair, while a lot of the press conference was reasonable, Boris's answers about people working/financial support were poor.
There must be more detail, and surely he must have been briefed to answer along the lines of "we're actively working on a package of measures to support those who can't work, and to ensure key workers can continue to do their jobs. The chancellor will be speaking tomorrow, and we'll announce details in the next few days", rather than "trust us, I'm sure we'll be able to do something for you".
Comments
It’s irresponsible to give them a pulpit, in my view.
This has to be thought through.
Angry fools don't tend to do that.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-51921513
I thought you were for that ?
I can't see W H Smith lasting much longer, with much reduced rail traffic and high street footfall.
NEW THREAD
Here in LA, the schools have been closed, but they've got drop in centres (with food) for those who need them. The idea is that you cut the number of kids mingling by 80% and that's better than having them all together every day.
The government needs all sorts of complex modelling. EG is it better to have 10 children and 10 over 70s sick or 20 children, 20 parents and no over 70s sick?
If schools and nurseries are shut down then some form of childcare that DOES NOT involve over 70s looking after children needs to be found and that can't happen without some planning, and would likely end up with something very similar to schools in the first place.
My mother spent two weeks in ICU and another two in HDU afterwards thanks to pneumonia about 6 years ago. She is over 80 now. My mother-in-law is 94 and very frail. Each winter she finds it harder and harder to shake off normal flus or colds.
Sadly they are at opposite ends of the country and I can only be in one place at a time.
AFAIK these put you at risk regardless of age - diabetes, high BP, heart disease, kidney problems, lung problems, asthma and MS.
Lots of people under 70 have those too.
Has the govt said if age alone is a major risk factor? I know some very robust people in their early 90s.
Reasons.
1. Amazingly nutritious and high in vitamin C - fermentation makes the nutrients more bioavailable
2. Delicious
3. Full of beneficial bacteria to look after your gut microbiome, which is part of a healthy immune system
3. A natural form of preservation, will last and last, but be WAY healthier than tinned foods
4. Panic buyers are avoiding fresh cabbages.
You'll need a Kilner jar or similar, salt (better quality the better), and potentially a small quantity of natural yoghurt to kick start the process.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUwC7bTjLkQ
There must be more detail, and surely he must have been briefed to answer along the lines of "we're actively working on a package of measures to support those who can't work, and to ensure key workers can continue to do their jobs. The chancellor will be speaking tomorrow, and we'll announce details in the next few days", rather than "trust us, I'm sure we'll be able to do something for you".