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  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    edited December 2013
    I have to say I'm with B-job on today's Autumn Statement, can't see it really making a big dent in the polls.... more a holding motion until hopefully even better numbers in 2014.

    Mind you Ed Balls has tried his best to help the Blues.. we shall see
  • Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics 2m

    Surprising poll from @YouGov (pre-Autumn Statement) coming later tonight - check back just before 10pm for details...
  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759

    SMukesh said:

    Osborne who has only managed to reduce the deficit by 7 billion in 3 years wants us to believe that he`s going to reduce it by 111 billion in the next 5.

    If only pigs an fly...


    And when did Labour reduce it ?
    Didn`t Labour run a surplus between 1998 and 2001?
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536

    AndyJS said:

    Wind is currently powering about 10% of the national grid despite it being peak time of the day for demand:

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    But UKIP and Farage are against it.

    On this issue, they are prize idiots, to put it mildly.

    And doing it at many times the cost of coal or gas. Supporters of wind power are prize idiots to put it mildly.
    Surely the trick is to have as diverse an energy base as we can rather than the endless "my dad is bigger than your dad stuff" on each type of energy. Nuclear, coal, tidal, wind, they all have their place I would assume?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,500
    AndyJS said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    AndyJS said:

    Wind is currently powering about 10% of the national grid despite it being peak time of the day for demand:

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    But UKIP and Farage are against it.

    On this issue, they are prize idiots, to put it mildly.

    That is, on what seems to be about the windiest day for 50 years in the parts of the country where the wind farms are. Perhaps we could have a survey on 25 December to gauge public consumption of roast turkey on an average weekday.

    I assume most Scottish windfarms have been shut down today because the optimum speed is about 30-40 mph and it's been a lot windier than that, which is obviously very unusual.
    Yes they go a bit too fast when wind is 100 mph
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,723
    SMukesh said:

    Osborne who has only managed to reduce the deficit by 7 billion in 3 years wants us to believe that he`s going to reduce it by 111 billion in the next 5.

    £7bn over 2 years as you well know - 118, 115, 111
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536

    SMukesh said:

    Osborne who has only managed to reduce the deficit by 7 billion in 3 years wants us to believe that he`s going to reduce it by 111 billion in the next 5.

    If only pigs an fly...


    And when did Labour reduce it ?
    Labour ran a surplus early in their term IIRC. And Ozzy will borrow more in five years than Labour did in 13.

    More's to the point, they have been in power nearly four years so this "whatabout Labour?" stuff is growing a bit boring.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    SMukesh said:

    SMukesh said:

    Osborne who has only managed to reduce the deficit by 7 billion in 3 years wants us to believe that he`s going to reduce it by 111 billion in the next 5.

    If only pigs an fly...


    And when did Labour reduce it ?
    Didn`t Labour run a surplus between 1998 and 2001?

    Yes, they followed Conservative policies as part of their election manifesto. Then they started to have their own ideas so between 2001 and 2010 they spent faster than Viv Richardson.
  • Please God don't let the Lib Dems be on 14% or more.
  • Bobajob said:

    AndyJS said:

    Wind is currently powering about 10% of the national grid despite it being peak time of the day for demand:

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    But UKIP and Farage are against it.

    On this issue, they are prize idiots, to put it mildly.

    And doing it at many times the cost of coal or gas. Supporters of wind power are prize idiots to put it mildly.
    Surely the trick is to have as diverse an energy base as we can rather than the endless "my dad is bigger than your dad stuff" on each type of energy. Nuclear, coal, tidal, wind, they all have their place I would assume?
    Absolutely. But not at the cost of making our energy hugely expensive. Personally I would rather see far more investment and research into improving solar PV as that seems to me a very sensible way to move forward - particularly the transparent versions for windows. The wind power economics as currently configured and promoted simply don't make sense.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,963
    edited December 2013
    Bobajob said:

    SMukesh said:

    Osborne who has only managed to reduce the deficit by 7 billion in 3 years wants us to believe that he`s going to reduce it by 111 billion in the next 5.

    If only pigs an fly...


    And when did Labour reduce it ?
    Labour ran a surplus early in their term IIRC. And Ozzy will borrow more in five years than Labour did in 13.

    More's to the point, they have been in power nearly four years so this "whatabout Labour?" stuff is growing a bit boring.
    Yes, Labour ran a surplus when they were following Tory spending plans, what happened when they stopped following Tory spending plans?

    Ozzy, IIRC borrowed more in his first month, than the first seven years of the last Labour government, that's what happens when you inherit one of the largest deficits in the world.

    Fortunately no Labour supporter goes on about Thatcher's legacy, twenty years after she left office.
  • antifrank said:

    Please God don't let the Lib Dems be on 14% or more.

    Ditto.

    That's what I thought it might show.
  • SMukesh said:

    SMukesh said:

    Osborne who has only managed to reduce the deficit by 7 billion in 3 years wants us to believe that he`s going to reduce it by 111 billion in the next 5.

    If only pigs an fly...


    And when did Labour reduce it ?
    Didn`t Labour run a surplus between 1998 and 2001?
    Only because of the hard work Ken Clarke and the pre-97 Tories did, and because of the 3G licences windfall.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Ch4 News a bit tricky for David Gauke

    Forced to defend Ed Balls in case Ed M actually decides to sack him
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,723

    Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics 2m

    Surprising poll from @YouGov (pre-Autumn Statement) coming later tonight - check back just before 10pm for details...

    If I had to bet I would say a significantly increased Lab lead - maybe 10%.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    tim said:

    IDS, what a star

    @RachelReevesMP: OBR today: people on Universal Credit in 2016-17 down from 6.1m expected in March to 2.9m #AS2013 #InDeepShambles http://t.co/RwF7yY86W9


    Sheesh - Rachel Reeves , yet another PPE who has never done a day's work. WTF would she know about anything ? Gobshite.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    check back just before 10pm for details...

    If its a whopping labour lead, there's going to be some payback on here...
  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759

    SMukesh said:

    SMukesh said:

    Osborne who has only managed to reduce the deficit by 7 billion in 3 years wants us to believe that he`s going to reduce it by 111 billion in the next 5.

    If only pigs an fly...


    And when did Labour reduce it ?
    Didn`t Labour run a surplus between 1998 and 2001?

    Yes, they followed Conservative policies as part of their election manifesto. Then they started to have their own ideas so between 2001 and 2010 they spent faster than Viv Richardson.
    As if the Conservatives always ran a surplus.Have a look at the large deficit Thatcher and Major ran after more than 10 years of Conservative rule.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    SMukesh said:

    SMukesh said:

    Osborne who has only managed to reduce the deficit by 7 billion in 3 years wants us to believe that he`s going to reduce it by 111 billion in the next 5.

    If only pigs an fly...


    And when did Labour reduce it ?
    Didn`t Labour run a surplus between 1998 and 2001?

    Yes, they followed Conservative policies as part of their election manifesto. Then they started to have their own ideas so between 2001 and 2010 they spent faster than Viv Richardson.
    Nicholson, I think
  • tim said:

    IDS, what a star

    @RachelReevesMP: OBR today: people on Universal Credit in 2016-17 down from 6.1m expected in March to 2.9m #AS2013 #InDeepShambles http://t.co/RwF7yY86W9


    Sheesh - Rachel Reeves , yet another PPE who has never done a day's work. WTF would she know about anything ? Gobshite.
    Actually you're being harsh on Rachel Reeves.

    Between 2006 and July 2009, she worked as a business planner and analyst for Halifax Bank of Scotland.

    Do you know what happened to HBOS during that period?

    ::Innocent face::
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Does anyone recall what Osborne said the deficits will be for 2013-14 and 2014-15 in 2010 ?
    What it is expected to turn out to be ?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    SMukesh said:

    SMukesh said:

    SMukesh said:

    Osborne who has only managed to reduce the deficit by 7 billion in 3 years wants us to believe that he`s going to reduce it by 111 billion in the next 5.

    If only pigs an fly...


    And when did Labour reduce it ?
    Didn`t Labour run a surplus between 1998 and 2001?

    Yes, they followed Conservative policies as part of their election manifesto. Then they started to have their own ideas so between 2001 and 2010 they spent faster than Viv Richardson.
    As if the Conservatives always ran a surplus.Have a look at the large deficit Thatcher and Major ran after more than 10 years of Conservative rule.

    Hahahahahahah

    since when has labour EVER given a toss about a deficit except when it was in opposition ?

    ROFLMBO
  • Interesting that the Sun say the yougov is pre the autumn statement.

    IIRC, YouGov's daily poll today, would have finished around 5/6pm this evening....

    So I is confused.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,916
    Congratulations to George Osborne for finally producing an effective Autumn Statement. Not only is the economy forecast to be in surplus by 2018/19, but unemployment is forecast to have fallen to about 5-6%. He also sensibly added local government to the list of protected departments from his latest round of cuts he announced today!
  • surbiton said:

    Does anyone recall what Osborne said the deficits will be for 2013-14 and 2014-15 in 2010 ?
    What it is expected to turn out to be ?

    He was a bit out, but he's no Alistair Darling, who was half a trillion out in 2008.
  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759
    MikeL said:

    SMukesh said:

    Osborne who has only managed to reduce the deficit by 7 billion in 3 years wants us to believe that he`s going to reduce it by 111 billion in the next 5.

    £7bn over 2 years as you well know - 118, 115, 111
    9 billion over 3 years then.Same difference.
  • SMukesh said:

    SMukesh said:

    SMukesh said:

    Osborne who has only managed to reduce the deficit by 7 billion in 3 years wants us to believe that he`s going to reduce it by 111 billion in the next 5.

    If only pigs an fly...


    And when did Labour reduce it ?
    Didn`t Labour run a surplus between 1998 and 2001?

    Yes, they followed Conservative policies as part of their election manifesto. Then they started to have their own ideas so between 2001 and 2010 they spent faster than Viv Richardson.
    As if the Conservatives always ran a surplus.Have a look at the large deficit Thatcher and Major ran after more than 10 years of Conservative rule.
    Wasn't there a budget surplus in the late 1980s?

    http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/spending_chart_1945_2010UKp_09c1li011lcn_G0t_UK_National_Debt_As_Pct_GDP
  • HYUFD said:
    Today is a really good day for UKIP

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    tim said:

    tim said:

    IDS, what a star

    @RachelReevesMP: OBR today: people on Universal Credit in 2016-17 down from 6.1m expected in March to 2.9m #AS2013 #InDeepShambles http://t.co/RwF7yY86W9


    Sheesh - Rachel Reeves , yet another PPE who has never done a day's work. WTF would she know about anything ? Gobshite.
    I don't think there's any MP who wouldn't know more about what's going on in IDS' department or party than IDS.
    How did he happen?

    Arf arf arf

    Rachel Reeves - a woman who worked for the BOE when it lost the plot, who advised the Halifax as they went bust.

    Just about every Tory totem you love to spout about and she's YOURS.

    Dogshit on the shoe of life . Sack her. Make her do some work. Gobshite waste of space.
  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759

    surbiton said:

    Does anyone recall what Osborne said the deficits will be for 2013-14 and 2014-15 in 2010 ?
    What it is expected to turn out to be ?

    He was a bit out, but he's no Alistair Darling, who was half a trillion out in 2008.

    surbiton said:

    Does anyone recall what Osborne said the deficits will be for 2013-14 and 2014-15 in 2010 ?
    What it is expected to turn out to be ?

    He was a bit out, but he's no Alistair Darling, who was half a trillion out in 2008.
    On the deficit?Are you getting your debt and deficit confused?
  • tim said:

    IDS, what a star

    @RachelReevesMP: OBR today: people on Universal Credit in 2016-17 down from 6.1m expected in March to 2.9m #AS2013 #InDeepShambles http://t.co/RwF7yY86W9


    Sheesh - Rachel Reeves , yet another PPE who has never done a day's work. WTF would she know about anything ? Gobshite.
    She looks OK ;)
  • I have to my shame, been reading Damien McBride's book "Power Trip" (shame because I regret paying him a single penny)
    I would take everything he says with a truckload of salt, but interestingly he says that much of Ed Balls apparent belligerence comes from a sense of insecurity. That seems right.
    He should be insecure. He's a reasonably smart man, who projected himself as some sort of genius. He isn't.
    He peaked in the first decade of this century. His stock will continue to decline.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    AndyJS said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    AndyJS said:

    Wind is currently powering about 10% of the national grid despite it being peak time of the day for demand:

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    But UKIP and Farage are against it.

    On this issue, they are prize idiots, to put it mildly.

    That is, on what seems to be about the windiest day for 50 years in the parts of the country where the wind farms are. Perhaps we could have a survey on 25 December to gauge public consumption of roast turkey on an average weekday.

    I assume most Scottish windfarms have been shut down today because the optimum speed is about 30-40 mph and it's been a lot windier than that, which is obviously very unusual.
    Yeah, so what's wrong with that ? Nobody suggested that 100% of electricity should come from wind turbines.

    The good news is that 18% of the world's electricity would come from harnessing wind power by 2050 as opposed to 2.6% now. But countries like Portugal , Denmark are closed to achieving 30% already.

    Luckily, even the UK is not following the luddites. UK will meet 15% of electricity needs from wind by 2020.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-29/u-k-wind-turbines-generate-record-power-as-gas-fed-plants-halt.html

  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    tim said:

    IDS, what a star

    @RachelReevesMP: OBR today: people on Universal Credit in 2016-17 down from 6.1m expected in March to 2.9m #AS2013 #InDeepShambles http://t.co/RwF7yY86W9


    Sheesh - Rachel Reeves , yet another PPE who has never done a day's work. WTF would she know about anything ? Gobshite.
    She looks OK ;)
    I'm not even sure about that nowadays ;-)

  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805

    Interesting that the Sun say the yougov is pre the autumn statement.

    IIRC, YouGov's daily poll today, would have finished around 5/6pm this evening....

    So I is confused.

    Yes, intriguing. Quite a few pre statement leaks in the press tho'?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Bercow always moans about the "thousands of letters" (2.5 according to FOI) he gets complaining at the behaviour in the commons and how bad it looks to observers.

    I would pay to watch George Osborne doing the "I was right dance"
  • SMukesh said:

    SMukesh said:

    SMukesh said:

    Osborne who has only managed to reduce the deficit by 7 billion in 3 years wants us to believe that he`s going to reduce it by 111 billion in the next 5.

    If only pigs an fly...


    And when did Labour reduce it ?
    Didn`t Labour run a surplus between 1998 and 2001?

    Yes, they followed Conservative policies as part of their election manifesto. Then they started to have their own ideas so between 2001 and 2010 they spent faster than Viv Richardson.
    As if the Conservatives always ran a surplus.Have a look at the large deficit Thatcher and Major ran after more than 10 years of Conservative rule.
    This is not an argument that you're going to win:

    http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/datasets-and-tables/data-selector.html?cdid=HF6X&dataset=pusf&table-id=PSF9
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    tim said:

    IDS, what a star

    @RachelReevesMP: OBR today: people on Universal Credit in 2016-17 down from 6.1m expected in March to 2.9m #AS2013 #InDeepShambles http://t.co/RwF7yY86W9


    Sheesh - Rachel Reeves , yet another PPE who has never done a day's work. WTF would she know about anything ? Gobshite.
    She looks OK ;)

    ROFL yeah after 16 pints and given the choice of her or John Prescott you would. But it would be a close call.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,723
    edited December 2013
    SMukesh said:

    MikeL said:

    SMukesh said:

    Osborne who has only managed to reduce the deficit by 7 billion in 3 years wants us to believe that he`s going to reduce it by 111 billion in the next 5.

    £7bn over 2 years as you well know - 118, 115, 111
    9 billion over 3 years then.Same difference.
    No the deficit has been reduced by £7bn over 2 years.

    The year before the 118 was approx £140bn so:

    140, 118, 115, 111

    So it's down approx £29bn over 3 years.
  • SMukesh said:

    surbiton said:

    Does anyone recall what Osborne said the deficits will be for 2013-14 and 2014-15 in 2010 ?
    What it is expected to turn out to be ?

    He was a bit out, but he's no Alistair Darling, who was half a trillion out in 2008.

    surbiton said:

    Does anyone recall what Osborne said the deficits will be for 2013-14 and 2014-15 in 2010 ?
    What it is expected to turn out to be ?

    He was a bit out, but he's no Alistair Darling, who was half a trillion out in 2008.
    On the deficit?Are you getting your debt and deficit confused?
    No, deficit.

    In 2008 he predicted borrowing over the next 4 years of approx £110 billion

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7282002.stm

    in 2009, he revised that to

    Public borrowing to increase to £175bn this year
    • Borrowing levels to be £173bn, £140bn, £118bn and £97bn in years after

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8011882.stm
  • surbiton said:

    AndyJS said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    AndyJS said:

    Wind is currently powering about 10% of the national grid despite it being peak time of the day for demand:

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    But UKIP and Farage are against it.

    On this issue, they are prize idiots, to put it mildly.

    That is, on what seems to be about the windiest day for 50 years in the parts of the country where the wind farms are. Perhaps we could have a survey on 25 December to gauge public consumption of roast turkey on an average weekday.

    I assume most Scottish windfarms have been shut down today because the optimum speed is about 30-40 mph and it's been a lot windier than that, which is obviously very unusual.
    Yeah, so what's wrong with that ? Nobody suggested that 100% of electricity should come from wind turbines.

    The good news is that 18% of the world's electricity would come from harnessing wind power by 2050 as opposed to 2.6% now. But countries like Portugal , Denmark are closed to achieving 30% already.

    Luckily, even the UK is not following the luddites. UK will meet 15% of electricity needs from wind by 2020.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-29/u-k-wind-turbines-generate-record-power-as-gas-fed-plants-halt.html

    Yep and people will be paying far more for their energy than they would otherwise and some will unfortunately die as a result.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,975
    @Eagle

    "Surprising poll from @YouGov (pre-Autumn Statement) coming later tonight - check back just before 10pm for details..."

    Obviously suggesting a big boost for the Tories. So tomorrow when it swings away from the Tories we can blame Osborne's Autumn statement?
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    surbiton said:

    Does anyone recall what Osborne said the deficits will be for 2013-14 and 2014-15 in 2010 ?
    What it is expected to turn out to be ?

    He was a bit out, but he's no Alistair Darling, who was half a trillion out in 2008.
    Darling was out by half a trillion on the deficit ? When did that come out ?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited December 2013

    tim said:

    IDS, what a star

    @RachelReevesMP: OBR today: people on Universal Credit in 2016-17 down from 6.1m expected in March to 2.9m #AS2013 #InDeepShambles http://t.co/RwF7yY86W9


    Sheesh - Rachel Reeves , yet another PPE who has never done a day's work. WTF would she know about anything ? Gobshite.
    She looks OK ;)
    Close your eyes & it could be Rachel Reeves...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxrFITuYmsc
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    This is getting a bit worrying now...

    @JohnRentoul: Premature, I know, but *if* EdM moved Ed Balls, who would he make Shadow Chancellor? Chuka Umunna or Chris Leslie, not Alistair Darling.
  • This is my favourite bit of the 2008 budget, Darling said this

    Britain is more resilient and more prepared to deal with global shocks.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Roger said:

    @Eagle

    "Surprising poll from @YouGov (pre-Autumn Statement) coming later tonight - check back just before 10pm for details..."

    Obviously suggesting a big boost for the Tories. So tomorrow when it swings away from the Tories we can blame Osborne's Autumn statement?

    Rogerissimo, please don't bore us with trivia from the land of politics, regale us with what's new in Adland or how your 70s DJ pals are getting on with the Met.
  • AndyJS said:

    Wind is currently powering about 10% of the national grid despite it being peak time of the day for demand:

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    But UKIP and Farage are against it.

    On this issue, they are prize idiots, to put it mildly.

    Coal is currently powering over 35%.

    But Labour, LibDems and the Conservatives are against it.

    On this issue, they are top prize idiots, to put it mildly.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Scott_P said:

    This is getting a bit worrying now...

    @JohnRentoul: Premature, I know, but *if* EdM moved Ed Balls, who would he make Shadow Chancellor? Chuka Umunna or Chris Leslie, not Alistair Darling.

    Either one please, he could then ignore all the people he has who are vaguely numerate.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    I wonder what percentage of the electorate knows who Ed Balls is.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    AndyJS said:

    Wind is currently powering about 10% of the national grid despite it being peak time of the day for demand:

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    But UKIP and Farage are against it.

    On this issue, they are prize idiots, to put it mildly.

    Coal is currently powering over 35%.

    But Labour, LibDems and the Conservatives are against it.

    On this issue, they are top prize idiots, to put it mildly.

    Richard you really need to try a PPE. this concentration on what works is just so nitpicking.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    surbiton said:

    AndyJS said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    AndyJS said:

    Wind is currently powering about 10% of the national grid despite it being peak time of the day for demand:

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    But UKIP and Farage are against it.

    On this issue, they are prize idiots, to put it mildly.

    That is, on what seems to be about the windiest day for 50 years in the parts of the country where the wind farms are. Perhaps we could have a survey on 25 December to gauge public consumption of roast turkey on an average weekday.

    I assume most Scottish windfarms have been shut down today because the optimum speed is about 30-40 mph and it's been a lot windier than that, which is obviously very unusual.
    Yeah, so what's wrong with that ? Nobody suggested that 100% of electricity should come from wind turbines.

    The good news is that 18% of the world's electricity would come from harnessing wind power by 2050 as opposed to 2.6% now. But countries like Portugal , Denmark are closed to achieving 30% already.

    Luckily, even the UK is not following the luddites. UK will meet 15% of electricity needs from wind by 2020.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-29/u-k-wind-turbines-generate-record-power-as-gas-fed-plants-halt.html

    Shame about the economic suicide though.
  • Well done [George] Ozzie:

    If only the electorate were as dumbed-down as your average postal-ballot. God forbide 'Bungle' Balls and 'Zippy' Militwunt were to be elected!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpIqZKJ6xCI
  • NextNext Posts: 826
    Scott_P said:

    This is getting a bit worrying now...

    @JohnRentoul: Premature, I know, but *if* EdM moved Ed Balls, who would he make Shadow Chancellor? Chuka Umunna or Chris Leslie, not Alistair Darling.

    Is there a "Save Ed" campaign we can dust off and use?
  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759
    MikeL said:

    SMukesh said:

    MikeL said:

    SMukesh said:

    Osborne who has only managed to reduce the deficit by 7 billion in 3 years wants us to believe that he`s going to reduce it by 111 billion in the next 5.

    £7bn over 2 years as you well know - 118, 115, 111
    9 billion over 3 years then.Same difference.
    No the deficit has been reduced by £7bn over 2 years.

    The year before the 118 was approx £140bn so:

    140, 118, 115, 111

    So it's down approx £29bn over 3 years.
    You are right.After the big spending cuts,the expected tax receipts failed to materialise leading to plateauing of the deficit.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Front cover of T2:

    "Joan Collins at 80: 'I've only gone to bed with good-looking men'"
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    AndyJS said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    AndyJS said:

    Wind is currently powering about 10% of the national grid despite it being peak time of the day for demand:

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    But UKIP and Farage are against it.

    On this issue, they are prize idiots, to put it mildly.

    That is, on what seems to be about the windiest day for 50 years in the parts of the country where the wind farms are. Perhaps we could have a survey on 25 December to gauge public consumption of roast turkey on an average weekday.

    I assume most Scottish windfarms have been shut down today because the optimum speed is about 30-40 mph and it's been a lot windier than that, which is obviously very unusual.
    They need to be shut down when it's very windy or very cold.

    What could possibly go wrong.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,916
    Nigel4England Farage's bid for the youth vote
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited December 2013
    MrJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    AndyJS said:

    Wind is currently powering about 10% of the national grid despite it being peak time of the day for demand:

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    But UKIP and Farage are against it.

    On this issue, they are prize idiots, to put it mildly.

    That is, on what seems to be about the windiest day for 50 years in the parts of the country where the wind farms are. Perhaps we could have a survey on 25 December to gauge public consumption of roast turkey on an average weekday.

    I assume most Scottish windfarms have been shut down today because the optimum speed is about 30-40 mph and it's been a lot windier than that, which is obviously very unusual.
    They need to be shut down when it's very windy or very cold.

    What could possibly go wrong.
    At the moment UK wind farms are generating enough electricity to power Denmark.

    I don't know about you, but I'm quite impressed by that.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    EPIC
    JonathanD said:

    Good summary of the state of play from Simon Carr

    "Osborne’s peroration is worth quoting in full – it just kept coming, a relentlessly personal attack.

    "“They can’t talk about their record because they had the biggest recession ever.

    They can’t talk about the deficit because they’ve got no plan to deal with it.

    He can’t talk about infrastructure and his much vaunted plan for a cross-party consensus because he was the person who tried to break the consensus on the biggest project of all.

    He can’t talk about housing because there were 420,000 fewer affordable homes at the end of the Labour government.

    He can’t talk about business rates because they went up 71 per cent under Labour.

    He can’t talk about support for business because he wants to put taxes up on business.

    He can’t ask about standing up to the powerful because this is the week they caved in to the trade unions.

    He can’t ask about jobs because he wants more jobs taxes.

    And he can’t ask about banking and financial services because the person they hired to advise them was the Reverend Flowers.”

    And Balls’ only response was to point and go “Ooooo!” as if to suggest Osborne and Cameron had taken cocaine themselves.

    It was far from a complete response to a massive reputational attack.

    Can Labour go into an election with a liability like this? Osborne must be hoping they can."


    http://order-order.com/2013/12/05/sketch-the-end-of-an-error-new-balls-please/#more-155944

  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    MrJones said:

    surbiton said:

    AndyJS said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    AndyJS said:

    Wind is currently powering about 10% of the national grid despite it being peak time of the day for demand:

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    But UKIP and Farage are against it.

    On this issue, they are prize idiots, to put it mildly.

    That is, on what seems to be about the windiest day for 50 years in the parts of the country where the wind farms are. Perhaps we could have a survey on 25 December to gauge public consumption of roast turkey on an average weekday.

    I assume most Scottish windfarms have been shut down today because the optimum speed is about 30-40 mph and it's been a lot windier than that, which is obviously very unusual.
    Yeah, so what's wrong with that ? Nobody suggested that 100% of electricity should come from wind turbines.

    The good news is that 18% of the world's electricity would come from harnessing wind power by 2050 as opposed to 2.6% now. But countries like Portugal , Denmark are closed to achieving 30% already.

    Luckily, even the UK is not following the luddites. UK will meet 15% of electricity needs from wind by 2020.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-29/u-k-wind-turbines-generate-record-power-as-gas-fed-plants-halt.html

    Shame about the economic suicide though.
    Roger said:

    @Eagle

    "Surprising poll from @YouGov (pre-Autumn Statement) coming later tonight - check back just before 10pm for details..."

    Obviously suggesting a big boost for the Tories. So tomorrow when it swings away from the Tories we can blame Osborne's Autumn statement?

    If the Sun is releasing it before 10pm, then it must be good news for the Tories.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,636
    MrJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    AndyJS said:

    Wind is currently powering about 10% of the national grid despite it being peak time of the day for demand:

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    But UKIP and Farage are against it.

    On this issue, they are prize idiots, to put it mildly.

    That is, on what seems to be about the windiest day for 50 years in the parts of the country where the wind farms are. Perhaps we could have a survey on 25 December to gauge public consumption of roast turkey on an average weekday.

    I assume most Scottish windfarms have been shut down today because the optimum speed is about 30-40 mph and it's been a lot windier than that, which is obviously very unusual.
    They need to be shut down when it's very windy or very cold.

    What could possibly go wrong.
    I saw GE's wind turbine business about two years ago, and they told me that - when fitted with the 'CWE' package - their wind turbines worked at temperatures as low as minus 40.

    Now, I could be wrong, but I don't think we get many days below minus 40 in this country,
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    AndyJS said:

    MrJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    AndyJS said:

    Wind is currently powering about 10% of the national grid despite it being peak time of the day for demand:

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    But UKIP and Farage are against it.

    On this issue, they are prize idiots, to put it mildly.

    That is, on what seems to be about the windiest day for 50 years in the parts of the country where the wind farms are. Perhaps we could have a survey on 25 December to gauge public consumption of roast turkey on an average weekday.

    I assume most Scottish windfarms have been shut down today because the optimum speed is about 30-40 mph and it's been a lot windier than that, which is obviously very unusual.
    They need to be shut down when it's very windy or very cold.

    What could possibly go wrong.
    At the moment UK wind farms are generating enough electricity to power Denmark.

    I don't know about you, but I'm quite impressed by that.
    What could possibly go wrong with a form of electricity generation that needs to be switched off when it's too cold?
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    MrJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    AndyJS said:

    Wind is currently powering about 10% of the national grid despite it being peak time of the day for demand:

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    But UKIP and Farage are against it.

    On this issue, they are prize idiots, to put it mildly.

    That is, on what seems to be about the windiest day for 50 years in the parts of the country where the wind farms are. Perhaps we could have a survey on 25 December to gauge public consumption of roast turkey on an average weekday.

    I assume most Scottish windfarms have been shut down today because the optimum speed is about 30-40 mph and it's been a lot windier than that, which is obviously very unusual.
    They need to be shut down when it's very windy or very cold.

    What could possibly go wrong.
    Like, for example, when the radioactive rods are exposed as in Fukushima. A whole 20 mile radius out of bounds for 50 years. Let's go nuclear then.
  • AndyJS said:

    MrJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    AndyJS said:

    Wind is currently powering about 10% of the national grid despite it being peak time of the day for demand:

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    But UKIP and Farage are against it.

    On this issue, they are prize idiots, to put it mildly.

    That is, on what seems to be about the windiest day for 50 years in the parts of the country where the wind farms are. Perhaps we could have a survey on 25 December to gauge public consumption of roast turkey on an average weekday.

    I assume most Scottish windfarms have been shut down today because the optimum speed is about 30-40 mph and it's been a lot windier than that, which is obviously very unusual.
    They need to be shut down when it's very windy or very cold.

    What could possibly go wrong.
    At the moment UK wind farms are generating enough electricity to power Denmark.

    I don't know about you, but I'm quite impressed by that.
    There is nothing impressive about it at all. Gas has been doing far more than that for decades. What matters is how much that power generation costs. This is by no means 'free' energy either now or in the future. It is economic lunacy.
  • NextNext Posts: 826
    rcs1000 said:

    MrJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    AndyJS said:

    Wind is currently powering about 10% of the national grid despite it being peak time of the day for demand:

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    But UKIP and Farage are against it.

    On this issue, they are prize idiots, to put it mildly.

    That is, on what seems to be about the windiest day for 50 years in the parts of the country where the wind farms are. Perhaps we could have a survey on 25 December to gauge public consumption of roast turkey on an average weekday.

    I assume most Scottish windfarms have been shut down today because the optimum speed is about 30-40 mph and it's been a lot windier than that, which is obviously very unusual.
    They need to be shut down when it's very windy or very cold.

    What could possibly go wrong.
    I saw GE's wind turbine business about two years ago, and they told me that - when fitted with the 'CWE' package - their wind turbines worked at temperatures as low as minus 40.

    Now, I could be wrong, but I don't think we get many days below minus 40 in this country,
    Is that -40 Celsius or Fahrenheit...
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    Mate in Hull sitting in the dark, no power. Says the centre's flooding and tidal gates breached. Manhole covers spouting up in the road.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,636

    Personally I would rather see far more investment and research into improving solar PV as that seems to me a very sensible way to move forward - particularly the transparent versions for windows.

    Some of the thin-film solar technologies are incredibly interesting - potentially super low cost, and - for the ones on glass substrates - because they actually convert some of the light into electricity, they actually reduce the need for air-conditioning in summer. Very interesting.

    Of course, the way I look at it, there is only one type of power that we use, and that's solar. Gas, coal and the like are just stored solar, using nature designed batteries.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    AndyJS said:

    MrJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    AndyJS said:

    Wind is currently powering about 10% of the national grid despite it being peak time of the day for demand:

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    But UKIP and Farage are against it.

    On this issue, they are prize idiots, to put it mildly.

    That is, on what seems to be about the windiest day for 50 years in the parts of the country where the wind farms are. Perhaps we could have a survey on 25 December to gauge public consumption of roast turkey on an average weekday.

    I assume most Scottish windfarms have been shut down today because the optimum speed is about 30-40 mph and it's been a lot windier than that, which is obviously very unusual.
    They need to be shut down when it's very windy or very cold.

    What could possibly go wrong.
    At the moment UK wind farms are generating enough electricity to power Denmark.

    I don't know about you, but I'm quite impressed by that.
    There is nothing impressive about it at all. Gas has been doing far more than that for decades. What matters is how much that power generation costs. This is by no means 'free' energy either now or in the future. It is economic lunacy.
    So, whenever wind production picks up, why is gas powered units shut down first ?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Carola said:

    Mate in Hull sitting in the dark, no power. Says the centre's flooding and tidal gates breached. Manhole covers spouting up in the road.

    Dammit woman why can't they just drop Prescott in to fill the breach !!

  • rcs1000 said:

    Personally I would rather see far more investment and research into improving solar PV as that seems to me a very sensible way to move forward - particularly the transparent versions for windows.

    Some of the thin-film solar technologies are incredibly interesting - potentially super low cost, and - for the ones on glass substrates - because they actually convert some of the light into electricity, they actually reduce the need for air-conditioning in summer. Very interesting.

    Of course, the way I look at it, there is only one type of power that we use, and that's solar. Gas, coal and the like are just stored solar, using nature designed batteries.
    Yep I would leap at the chance to support that kind of technology. Imagine every one of our glass skyscrapers (or even just the new ones) using that form of generation.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    rcs1000 said:

    MrJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    AndyJS said:

    Wind is currently powering about 10% of the national grid despite it being peak time of the day for demand:

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    But UKIP and Farage are against it.

    On this issue, they are prize idiots, to put it mildly.

    That is, on what seems to be about the windiest day for 50 years in the parts of the country where the wind farms are. Perhaps we could have a survey on 25 December to gauge public consumption of roast turkey on an average weekday.

    I assume most Scottish windfarms have been shut down today because the optimum speed is about 30-40 mph and it's been a lot windier than that, which is obviously very unusual.
    They need to be shut down when it's very windy or very cold.

    What could possibly go wrong.
    I saw GE's wind turbine business about two years ago, and they told me that - when fitted with the 'CWE' package - their wind turbines worked at temperatures as low as minus 40.

    Now, I could be wrong, but I don't think we get many days below minus 40 in this country,
    So if all the windmills were GE and they all had these CWE packages and GE had judged it correctly that would contradict the point.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    surbiton said:

    MrJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    AndyJS said:

    Wind is currently powering about 10% of the national grid despite it being peak time of the day for demand:

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    But UKIP and Farage are against it.

    On this issue, they are prize idiots, to put it mildly.

    That is, on what seems to be about the windiest day for 50 years in the parts of the country where the wind farms are. Perhaps we could have a survey on 25 December to gauge public consumption of roast turkey on an average weekday.

    I assume most Scottish windfarms have been shut down today because the optimum speed is about 30-40 mph and it's been a lot windier than that, which is obviously very unusual.
    They need to be shut down when it's very windy or very cold.

    What could possibly go wrong.
    Like, for example, when the radioactive rods are exposed as in Fukushima. A whole 20 mile radius out of bounds for 50 years. Let's go nuclear then.
    Look a squirrel.
  • Next said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    AndyJS said:

    Wind is currently powering about 10% of the national grid despite it being peak time of the day for demand:

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    But UKIP and Farage are against it.

    On this issue, they are prize idiots, to put it mildly.

    That is, on what seems to be about the windiest day for 50 years in the parts of the country where the wind farms are. Perhaps we could have a survey on 25 December to gauge public consumption of roast turkey on an average weekday.

    I assume most Scottish windfarms have been shut down today because the optimum speed is about 30-40 mph and it's been a lot windier than that, which is obviously very unusual.
    They need to be shut down when it's very windy or very cold.

    What could possibly go wrong.
    I saw GE's wind turbine business about two years ago, and they told me that - when fitted with the 'CWE' package - their wind turbines worked at temperatures as low as minus 40.

    Now, I could be wrong, but I don't think we get many days below minus 40 in this country,
    Is that -40 Celsius or Fahrenheit...
    Same temperature! -40 in either scale (strange but true).
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    surbiton said:

    AndyJS said:

    MrJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    AndyJS said:

    Wind is currently powering about 10% of the national grid despite it being peak time of the day for demand:

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    But UKIP and Farage are against it.

    On this issue, they are prize idiots, to put it mildly.

    That is, on what seems to be about the windiest day for 50 years in the parts of the country where the wind farms are. Perhaps we could have a survey on 25 December to gauge public consumption of roast turkey on an average weekday.

    I assume most Scottish windfarms have been shut down today because the optimum speed is about 30-40 mph and it's been a lot windier than that, which is obviously very unusual.
    They need to be shut down when it's very windy or very cold.

    What could possibly go wrong.
    At the moment UK wind farms are generating enough electricity to power Denmark.

    I don't know about you, but I'm quite impressed by that.
    There is nothing impressive about it at all. Gas has been doing far more than that for decades. What matters is how much that power generation costs. This is by no means 'free' energy either now or in the future. It is economic lunacy.
    So, whenever wind production picks up, why is gas powered units shut down first ?
    cos they're efficient and reliable
  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759
    It`s funny how the Tory media used to go on about Ed Miliband and now that he`s destroyed their plans with a single policy,they now think Ed Balls is the weak link.

    The two big weak links are in their own party and Labour will go after them nearer the election!
  • tessyCtessyC Posts: 106
    The biggest problem with wind being an ever increasing part of the energy mix is when we do have very cold weather in the winter, (when we use the most energy) its when we have prolonged spells of high pressure and so little to no wind. Think of the last few winters, weeks of high pressure and very cold temperatures.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    When he was 10yrs old more like.
    Fat_Steve said:

    I have to my shame, been reading Damien McBride's book "Power Trip" (shame because I regret paying him a single penny)
    I would take everything he says with a truckload of salt, but interestingly he says that much of Ed Balls apparent belligerence comes from a sense of insecurity. That seems right.
    He should be insecure. He's a reasonably smart man, who projected himself as some sort of genius. He isn't.
    He peaked in the first decade of this century. His stock will continue to decline.

  • surbiton said:

    AndyJS said:

    MrJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    AndyJS said:

    Wind is currently powering about 10% of the national grid despite it being peak time of the day for demand:

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    But UKIP and Farage are against it.

    On this issue, they are prize idiots, to put it mildly.

    That is, on what seems to be about the windiest day for 50 years in the parts of the country where the wind farms are. Perhaps we could have a survey on 25 December to gauge public consumption of roast turkey on an average weekday.

    I assume most Scottish windfarms have been shut down today because the optimum speed is about 30-40 mph and it's been a lot windier than that, which is obviously very unusual.
    They need to be shut down when it's very windy or very cold.

    What could possibly go wrong.
    At the moment UK wind farms are generating enough electricity to power Denmark.

    I don't know about you, but I'm quite impressed by that.
    There is nothing impressive about it at all. Gas has been doing far more than that for decades. What matters is how much that power generation costs. This is by no means 'free' energy either now or in the future. It is economic lunacy.
    So, whenever wind production picks up, why is gas powered units shut down first ?
    Because they are the quickest and simplest to stop and restart again. If we have excess capacity because of the wind generation then the gas stations are the first to be stopped. Still doesn't change the fact that we are then using more expensive energy generation instead of cheaper generation because we have designed a stupid system that needs that to be done.

    As it stands the more wind generation contributing to the overall supply we have at any given time the more expensive our electricity becomes for the end user.
  • antifrank said:

    Please God don't let the Lib Dems be on 14% or more.

    I'm relying on that one to finance Christmas 2013. When is the last YouGov poll of 2013 due?
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    MrJones said:

    surbiton said:

    AndyJS said:

    MrJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    AndyJS said:

    Wind is currently powering about 10% of the national grid despite it being peak time of the day for demand:

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    But UKIP and Farage are against it.

    On this issue, they are prize idiots, to put it mildly.

    That is, on what seems to be about the windiest day for 50 years in the parts of the country where the wind farms are. Perhaps we could have a survey on 25 December to gauge public consumption of roast turkey on an average weekday.

    I assume most Scottish windfarms have been shut down today because the optimum speed is about 30-40 mph and it's been a lot windier than that, which is obviously very unusual.
    They need to be shut down when it's very windy or very cold.

    What could possibly go wrong.
    At the moment UK wind farms are generating enough electricity to power Denmark.

    I don't know about you, but I'm quite impressed by that.
    There is nothing impressive about it at all. Gas has been doing far more than that for decades. What matters is how much that power generation costs. This is by no means 'free' energy either now or in the future. It is economic lunacy.
    So, whenever wind production picks up, why is gas powered units shut down first ?
    cos they're efficient and reliable
    No, because it is less efficient.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-29/u-k-wind-turbines-generate-record-power-as-gas-fed-plants-halt.html

    The U.K. plans to almost triple the amount of wind capacity by 2020 as it seeks to meet a target to get 15 percent of power demand from renewable energy sources. Wind and solar have no fuel costs, generally making them cheaper than coal or gas.

    “As well as the higher wind power, demand is down by about 2 gigawatts from yesterday as well so it has given the chance for less efficient gas-burn facilities to drop output,” Gary Hornby, energy markets analyst at Inenco Group Ltd., said by e-mail today.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Are you seriously suggesting that Ed Balls is performing well and is an asset to the party?

    Nothing would demonstrate a clean break with the Brown economic policy better than showing Balls the door.

    The key is timing. It needs to be far enough in advance of the next election that the new guy/gal can master their brief, but close enough to it that Balls has to keep quiet because of the proximity to the election.

    I suspect that ALP is right, and that we will have an interesting spring budget that will flatfoot the less than nimble Ed Balls, and he will be dumped in a Summer reshuffle.
    SMukesh said:

    It`s funny how the Tory media used to go on about Ed Miliband and now that he`s destroyed their plans with a single policy,they now think Ed Balls is the weak link.

    The two big weak links are in their own party and Labour will go after them nearer the election!

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    SMukesh said:

    It`s funny how the Tory media used to go on about Ed Miliband and now that he`s destroyed their plans with a single policy,they now think Ed Balls is the weak link.

    The two big weak links are in their own party and Labour will go after them nearer the election!


    Oh get real. they're both crap.

    The fun is bruiser Balls has lost his Mojo and wimpy Wallace could now take him out if he had some gumption. But he hasn't.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    edited December 2013
    surbiton said:

    MrJones said:

    surbiton said:

    AndyJS said:

    MrJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    AndyJS said:

    Wind is currently powering about 10% of the national grid despite it being peak time of the day for demand:

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    But UKIP and Farage are against it.

    On this issue, they are prize idiots, to put it mildly.

    That is, on what seems to be about the windiest day for 50 years in the parts of the country where the wind farms are. Perhaps we could have a survey on 25 December to gauge public consumption of roast turkey on an average weekday.

    I assume most Scottish windfarms have been shut down today because the optimum speed is about 30-40 mph and it's been a lot windier than that, which is obviously very unusual.
    They need to be shut down when it's very windy or very cold.

    What could possibly go wrong.
    At the moment UK wind farms are generating enough electricity to power Denmark.

    I don't know about you, but I'm quite impressed by that.
    There is nothing impressive about it at all. Gas has been doing far more than that for decades. What matters is how much that power generation costs. This is by no means 'free' energy either now or in the future. It is economic lunacy.
    So, whenever wind production picks up, why is gas powered units shut down first ?
    cos they're efficient and reliable
    No, because it is less efficient.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-29/u-k-wind-turbines-generate-record-power-as-gas-fed-plants-halt.html

    The U.K. plans to almost triple the amount of wind capacity by 2020 as it seeks to meet a target to get 15 percent of power demand from renewable energy sources. Wind and solar have no fuel costs, generally making them cheaper than coal or gas.

    “As well as the higher wind power, demand is down by about 2 gigawatts from yesterday as well so it has given the chance for less efficient gas-burn facilities to drop output,” Gary Hornby, energy markets analyst at Inenco Group Ltd., said by e-mail today.

    1. Wind capacity needs a backup for when there's no wind. Gas is the preferred option as the *duplicated* backup system for when there's no wind cos it can be turned on and off quick.

    2. As wind *requires* a backup system the cost of that backup ought to be factored into the cost for wind but it isn't.

    3. Check the careful wording - less efficient than wind or the least efficient of the currently operating gas-burner facilities?

  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759

    Are you seriously suggesting that Ed Balls is performing well and is an asset to the party?

    Nothing would demonstrate a clean break with the Brown economic policy better than showing Balls the door.

    The key is timing. It needs to be far enough in advance of the next election that the new guy/gal can master their brief, but close enough to it that Balls has to keep quiet because of the proximity to the election.

    I suspect that ALP is right, and that we will have an interesting spring budget that will flatfoot the less than nimble Ed Balls, and he will be dumped in a Summer reshuffle.

    SMukesh said:

    It`s funny how the Tory media used to go on about Ed Miliband and now that he`s destroyed their plans with a single policy,they now think Ed Balls is the weak link.

    The two big weak links are in their own party and Labour will go after them nearer the election!

    Balls knows far more about economics than the towel folder and he`ll be a real asset to the party when it matters and he has his fingers around the purse-strings.

    He suffers from a stammer and may have been temporarily put off by deliberate Tory/Lib Dem heckling but he`s a smart political operator and his influence will be seen in the party manifesto.

    Why do you think the Tories are going after him?

    The two Eds are the team that take Labour into 2015.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    MrJones said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    AndyJS said:

    Wind is currently powering about 10% of the national grid despite it being peak time of the day for demand:

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    But UKIP and Farage are against it.

    On this issue, they are prize idiots, to put it mildly.

    That is, on what seems to be about the windiest day for 50 years in the parts of the country where the wind farms are. Perhaps we could have a survey on 25 December to gauge public consumption of roast turkey on an average weekday.

    I assume most Scottish windfarms have been shut down today because the optimum speed is about 30-40 mph and it's been a lot windier than that, which is obviously very unusual.
    They need to be shut down when it's very windy or very cold.

    What could possibly go wrong.
    I saw GE's wind turbine business about two years ago, and they told me that - when fitted with the 'CWE' package - their wind turbines worked at temperatures as low as minus 40.

    Now, I could be wrong, but I don't think we get many days below minus 40 in this country,
    So if all the windmills were GE and they all had these CWE packages and GE had judged it correctly that would contradict the point.
    Did GE point out how much extra the CWE (cold weather environment?) Package would cost?
  • R0bertsR0berts Posts: 391
    Getting rid of Balls would do more harm than good, so Ed won't.

    And Mike is wrong, the personality of the shadow chancellor won't change votes. The arguments will. On that score, the Tories are still struggling to catch up with Labour.

  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    FPT - Thanks Tykejohnno for navigation tip. I thought everyone had heard Ossie's Statement and concluded all our problems were over :)
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    SMukesh said:

    Are you seriously suggesting that Ed Balls is performing well and is an asset to the party?

    Nothing would demonstrate a clean break with the Brown economic policy better than showing Balls the door.

    The key is timing. It needs to be far enough in advance of the next election that the new guy/gal can master their brief, but close enough to it that Balls has to keep quiet because of the proximity to the election.

    I suspect that ALP is right, and that we will have an interesting spring budget that will flatfoot the less than nimble Ed Balls, and he will be dumped in a Summer reshuffle.

    SMukesh said:

    It`s funny how the Tory media used to go on about Ed Miliband and now that he`s destroyed their plans with a single policy,they now think Ed Balls is the weak link.

    The two big weak links are in their own party and Labour will go after them nearer the election!

    Balls knows far more about economics than the towel folder and he`ll be a real asset to the party when it matters and he has his fingers around the purse-strings.

    He suffers from a stammer and may have been temporarily put off by deliberate Tory/Lib Dem heckling but he`s a smart political operator and his influence will be seen in the party manifesto.

    Why do you think the Tories are going after him?

    The two Eds are the team that take Labour into 2015.
    Balls knows far more about economics than the towel folder

    So if he knows so much how come every call he has made has been wrong ?

    PS why is Miliband a towel folder ?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,688
    edited December 2013
    R0berts said:

    Getting rid of Balls would do more harm than good, so Ed won't.

    And Mike is wrong, the personality of the shadow chancellor won't change votes. The arguments will. On that score, the Tories are still struggling to catch up with Labour.

    The personality of the Shadow Chancellor is, in my opinion, an asset. He always comes over in interviews as a touch self deprecating and the way he has mastered his stammer is something very much to be admired. The fact he can play football and look like most other middle aged men doing that (ie unfit and knackered) is also a plus.

    I still wouldn't trust him with my daughter's piggy bank but the personality thing is a complete red herring.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    R0berts said:

    Getting rid of Balls would do more harm than good, so Ed won't

    And Mike is wrong, the personality of the shadow chancellor won't change votes. The arguments will. On that score, the Tories are still struggling to catch up with Labour.

    chortle

    arguments ? Which arguments ? Labour have none. Their policy bag is emptier than Prescott.s head.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    Charles said:

    MrJones said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    AndyJS said:

    Wind is currently powering about 10% of the national grid despite it being peak time of the day for demand:

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    But UKIP and Farage are against it.

    On this issue, they are prize idiots, to put it mildly.

    That is, on what seems to be about the windiest day for 50 years in the parts of the country where the wind farms are. Perhaps we could have a survey on 25 December to gauge public consumption of roast turkey on an average weekday.

    I assume most Scottish windfarms have been shut down today because the optimum speed is about 30-40 mph and it's been a lot windier than that, which is obviously very unusual.
    They need to be shut down when it's very windy or very cold.

    What could possibly go wrong.
    I saw GE's wind turbine business about two years ago, and they told me that - when fitted with the 'CWE' package - their wind turbines worked at temperatures as low as minus 40.

    Now, I could be wrong, but I don't think we get many days below minus 40 in this country,
    So if all the windmills were GE and they all had these CWE packages and GE had judged it correctly that would contradict the point.
    Did GE point out how much extra the CWE (cold weather environment?) Package would cost?
    If they'd been installed i expect they would have cost a lot - although probably nowhere near as much as they'll cost when their potential customers realize all those windmills aren't going to work when it's very cold. Instant premium.
  • R0bertsR0berts Posts: 391

    R0berts said:

    Getting rid of Balls would do more harm than good, so Ed won't

    And Mike is wrong, the personality of the shadow chancellor won't change votes. The arguments will. On that score, the Tories are still struggling to catch up with Labour.

    chortle

    arguments ? Which arguments ? Labour have none. Their policy bag is emptier than Prescott.s head.
    The Cost of Living Crisis.

    Like it or not, that's the playing field.
  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759

    R0berts said:

    Getting rid of Balls would do more harm than good, so Ed won't

    And Mike is wrong, the personality of the shadow chancellor won't change votes. The arguments will. On that score, the Tories are still struggling to catch up with Labour.

    chortle

    arguments ? Which arguments ? Labour have none. Their policy bag is emptier than Prescott.s head.
    Is that why the Tories stole all their policies ahead of the autumn statement?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    I am a Lib Dem voter, so it is possible that my party will be supporting a minority Labour govt in 18 months. It would not be credible to do this with Balls as Chancellor, as it would be the antithesis of everything that they have done in this govt.

    Balls is a Dead Man Walking, though I do think it possible that he may be a Zombie Chancellor, lurching after hard working families to feed upon.
    SMukesh said:

    Are you seriously suggesting that Ed Balls is performing well and is an asset to the party?

    Nothing would demonstrate a clean break with the Brown economic policy better than showing Balls the door.

    The key is timing. It needs to be far enough in advance of the next election that the new guy/gal can master their brief, but close enough to it that Balls has to keep quiet because of the proximity to the election.

    I suspect that ALP is right, and that we will have an interesting spring budget that will flatfoot the less than nimble Ed Balls, and he will be dumped in a Summer reshuffle.

    SMukesh said:

    It`s funny how the Tory media used to go on about Ed Miliband and now that he`s destroyed their plans with a single policy,they now think Ed Balls is the weak link.

    The two big weak links are in their own party and Labour will go after them nearer the election!

    Balls knows far more about economics than the towel folder and he`ll be a real asset to the party when it matters and he has his fingers around the purse-strings.

    He suffers from a stammer and may have been temporarily put off by deliberate Tory/Lib Dem heckling but he`s a smart political operator and his influence will be seen in the party manifesto.

    Why do you think the Tories are going after him?

    The two Eds are the team that take Labour into 2015.
  • R0bertsR0berts Posts: 391

    I am a Lib Dem voter, so it is possible that my party will be supporting a minority Labour govt in 18 months. It would not be credible to do this with Balls as Chancellor, as it would be the antithesis of everything that they have done in this govt.

    Balls is a Dead Man Walking, though I do think it possible that he may be a Zombie Chancellor, lurching after hard working families to feed upon.

    SMukesh said:

    Are you seriously suggesting that Ed Balls is performing well and is an asset to the party?

    Nothing would demonstrate a clean break with the Brown economic policy better than showing Balls the door.

    The key is timing. It needs to be far enough in advance of the next election that the new guy/gal can master their brief, but close enough to it that Balls has to keep quiet because of the proximity to the election.

    I suspect that ALP is right, and that we will have an interesting spring budget that will flatfoot the less than nimble Ed Balls, and he will be dumped in a Summer reshuffle.

    SMukesh said:

    It`s funny how the Tory media used to go on about Ed Miliband and now that he`s destroyed their plans with a single policy,they now think Ed Balls is the weak link.

    The two big weak links are in their own party and Labour will go after them nearer the election!

    Balls knows far more about economics than the towel folder and he`ll be a real asset to the party when it matters and he has his fingers around the purse-strings.

    He suffers from a stammer and may have been temporarily put off by deliberate Tory/Lib Dem heckling but he`s a smart political operator and his influence will be seen in the party manifesto.

    Why do you think the Tories are going after him?

    The two Eds are the team that take Labour into 2015.
    Oh codswallop.

    Ed Balls is more credible than the flipping leader of your party.

    The Lib Dems will do a deal if need be.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Next said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrJones said:

    AndyJS said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    AndyJS said:

    Wind is currently powering about 10% of the national grid despite it being peak time of the day for demand:

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    But UKIP and Farage are against it.

    On this issue, they are prize idiots, to put it mildly.

    That is, on what seems to be about the windiest day for 50 years in the parts of the country where the wind farms are. Perhaps we could have a survey on 25 December to gauge public consumption of roast turkey on an average weekday.

    I assume most Scottish windfarms have been shut down today because the optimum speed is about 30-40 mph and it's been a lot windier than that, which is obviously very unusual.
    They need to be shut down when it's very windy or very cold.

    What could possibly go wrong.
    I saw GE's wind turbine business about two years ago, and they told me that - when fitted with the 'CWE' package - their wind turbines worked at temperatures as low as minus 40.

    Now, I could be wrong, but I don't think we get many days below minus 40 in this country,
    Is that -40 Celsius or Fahrenheit...
    Same temperature! -40 in either scale (strange but true).
    Yes, a standard pub quiz question.
    Glad to see your expensive education hasn't been wasted, Dr Prasannan!

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    R0berts said:

    R0berts said:

    Getting rid of Balls would do more harm than good, so Ed won't

    And Mike is wrong, the personality of the shadow chancellor won't change votes. The arguments will. On that score, the Tories are still struggling to catch up with Labour.

    chortle

    arguments ? Which arguments ? Labour have none. Their policy bag is emptier than Prescott.s head.
    The Cost of Living Crisis.

    Like it or not, that's the playing field.

    Oh really straw grasping.

    HMG can put money in voters pockets between now and the GE and will. Then what will Balls do ? HMG will simply steal the iodeas and put the issue to bed. What's Balls' next trick ?
  • I noticed a few weeks ago when spittle was appearing on Red Ed lips that the media and the PB Hodges went into a frenzy over "Red Ed foaming at the mouth". Gideon does the same at the Autumn statement......anyone hear that pin drop?
This discussion has been closed.