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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Bloomberg becomes the first of the elderly septuagenarians to

SystemSystem Posts: 12,170
edited March 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Bloomberg becomes the first of the elderly septuagenarians to quit the Dem race

It was almost inevitable that after spending getting on for half a billion dollars on his effort to to gain the Democratic nomination that multi billionaire Mike Bloomberg should decide to quit after his disappointing performance yesterday.

Read the full story here


«1345

Comments

  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    edited March 2020
    Last because my threads go from the top down....
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    "The first of the elderly septuagenarians" sounds like a reworking of a song by Morrissey!

    "Ronnie Reagan - do you know my face?
    Oh, don't say you don't
    Please say you do, oh-uh-oh"
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited March 2020
    One advantage Sanders does have is most of the southern states, Biden's stronghold, have now voted. Sanders won a majority of non southern states last night even as Biden swept the south. He needs to win Michigan and Washington next week ideally, follow up with wins in Arizona and Illinois and Ohio on March 17th and go through to New York on April 28th, his state of birth.


    The Bloomberg endorsement for Biden may also help Sanders play the anti establishment narrative
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    eadric said:

    Bloomberg is giving his drop-out speech in a big closed room chock full of people chanting and shouting and expelling droplets of saliva, even as he talks about healthcare.

    A dark lol

    Maybe, but it’s his last one.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,373
    isam said:

    "The first of the elderly septuagenarians" sounds like a reworking of a song by Morrissey!

    "Ronnie Reagan - do you know my face?
    Oh, don't say you don't
    Please say you do, oh-uh-oh"

    Surely if we are talking about the eternally ancient battling for the greatest prize -

    "One dream, one soul, one prize, one goal
    One golden glance of what should be
    (It's a kind of magic)
    One shaft of light that shows the way
    No mortal man can win this day
    The bell that rings inside your mind
    It's a challenging the doors of time
    (It's a kind of magic)
    The waiting seems eternity
    The day will dawn of sanity
    It's a kind of magic
    (It's a kind of magic)
    There can be only one"
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    FPT:
    eadric said:

    rottenborough said:

    eadric said:

    Chameleon said:

    eadric said:

    Just to underline this difference:


    Italy got its first case of corona on February 20th. It now has 2546 cases, with 160 recovered, and 79 deaths.

    Singapore got its first case of corona on January 21st (a month EARLIER). It now has 112 cases, with 78 recovered, and zero deaths

    A startling contrast.

    Your Italy figures don't have today yet. 3,089 cases, 107 deaths.
    Grim
    3.4%
    Gosh, it is, isn't it?

    Italy must be a week or two from a total seizure of its health service. We will be able to watch in real-time. Unless we have our own by then, and cannot spare time to watch anyone else.

    Even though it looks like containment has finally fallen in London, we've bought a crucial few weeks. As we see Italy's health system go under (remember, 10% of their medics are out of action in Lombardy with coronavirus), it will cause a change of behaviour over here, which should lower our R0.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Malmesbury said:

    isam said:

    "The first of the elderly septuagenarians" sounds like a reworking of a song by Morrissey!

    "Ronnie Reagan - do you know my face?
    Oh, don't say you don't
    Please say you do, oh-uh-oh"

    Surely if we are talking about the eternally ancient battling for the greatest prize -

    "One dream, one soul, one prize, one goal
    One golden glance of what should be
    (It's a kind of magic)
    One shaft of light that shows the way
    No mortal man can win this day
    The bell that rings inside your mind
    It's a challenging the doors of time
    (It's a kind of magic)
    The waiting seems eternity
    The day will dawn of sanity
    It's a kind of magic
    (It's a kind of magic)
    There can be only one"
    Just the title really! (The last of the famous international playboys)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,373
    edited March 2020
    isam said:

    Malmesbury said:

    isam said:

    "The first of the elderly septuagenarians" sounds like a reworking of a song by Morrissey!

    "Ronnie Reagan - do you know my face?
    Oh, don't say you don't
    Please say you do, oh-uh-oh"

    Surely if we are talking about the eternally ancient battling for the greatest prize -

    "One dream, one soul, one prize, one goal
    One golden glance of what should be
    (It's a kind of magic)
    One shaft of light that shows the way
    No mortal man can win this day
    The bell that rings inside your mind
    It's a challenging the doors of time
    (It's a kind of magic)
    The waiting seems eternity
    The day will dawn of sanity
    It's a kind of magic
    (It's a kind of magic)
    There can be only one"
    Just the title really! (The last of the famous international playboys)
    Queen - the Gods of Rock Opera.

    There is something about this contest - Trump vs Biden or Sanders. It's a bizarre remake of one of those smash hit 80's super cheese films. Total Recall maybe... no.. Demolition Man - the last 80s film.

    Come to think of it - pass the 61st amendment amendment now!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    eadric said:

    fpt as a public service

    A very helpful thread on avoiding infection, and proper use of masks.

    https://twitter.com/nCoVPerspectiv1/status/1232865651561136128?s=20

    Somebody asked a question on the thread: "can an infected mask be soaked in alcohol and reused?"

    I can see the hospital burns units being busy if that becomes a trend.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    eadric said:

    Chameleon said:

    FPT:

    eadric said:

    rottenborough said:

    eadric said:

    Chameleon said:

    eadric said:

    Just to underline this difference:


    Italy got its first case of corona on February 20th. It now has 2546 cases, with 160 recovered, and 79 deaths.

    Singapore got its first case of corona on January 21st (a month EARLIER). It now has 112 cases, with 78 recovered, and zero deaths

    A startling contrast.

    Your Italy figures don't have today yet. 3,089 cases, 107 deaths.
    Grim
    3.4%
    Gosh, it is, isn't it?

    Italy must be a week or two from a total seizure of its health service. We will be able to watch in real-time. Unless we have our own by then, and cannot spare time to watch anyone else.

    Even though it looks like containment has finally fallen in London, we've bought a crucial few weeks. As we see Italy's health system go under (remember, 10% of their medics are out of action in Lombardy with coronavirus), it will cause a change of behaviour over here, which should lower our R0.
    Let's hope so

    Again I salute the bravery of doctors and nurses, like foxy. They will be the front line. It won't be fun.

    Meanwhile, from the front line in America:

    https://twitter.com/matthewstoller/status/1235239113298759680?s=20
    Yes best wishes to all our medical staff.

    Putting themselves out there for the rest of us.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    eadric said:

    Chameleon said:

    FPT:

    eadric said:

    rottenborough said:

    eadric said:

    Chameleon said:

    eadric said:

    Just to underline this difference:


    Italy got its first case of corona on February 20th. It now has 2546 cases, with 160 recovered, and 79 deaths.

    Singapore got its first case of corona on January 21st (a month EARLIER). It now has 112 cases, with 78 recovered, and zero deaths

    A startling contrast.

    Your Italy figures don't have today yet. 3,089 cases, 107 deaths.
    Grim
    3.4%
    Gosh, it is, isn't it?

    Italy must be a week or two from a total seizure of its health service. We will be able to watch in real-time. Unless we have our own by then, and cannot spare time to watch anyone else.

    Even though it looks like containment has finally fallen in London, we've bought a crucial few weeks. As we see Italy's health system go under (remember, 10% of their medics are out of action in Lombardy with coronavirus), it will cause a change of behaviour over here, which should lower our R0.
    Let's hope so

    Again I salute the bravery of doctors and nurses, like foxy. They will be the front line. It won't be fun.

    Meanwhile, from the front line in America:

    https://twitter.com/matthewstoller/status/1235239113298759680?s=20
    The US retains its crown for having the highest death to case ratio in the world, currently 11 deaths from 149 cases, or 7.4%. The likelihood is that they have currently found 10% or so of the infected cases wandering around the US. Even Iran is doing better than that.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,767
    eadric said:

    Chameleon said:

    FPT:

    eadric said:

    rottenborough said:

    eadric said:

    Chameleon said:

    eadric said:

    Just to underline this difference:


    Italy got its first case of corona on February 20th. It now has 2546 cases, with 160 recovered, and 79 deaths.

    Singapore got its first case of corona on January 21st (a month EARLIER). It now has 112 cases, with 78 recovered, and zero deaths

    A startling contrast.

    Your Italy figures don't have today yet. 3,089 cases, 107 deaths.
    Grim
    3.4%
    Gosh, it is, isn't it?

    Italy must be a week or two from a total seizure of its health service. We will be able to watch in real-time. Unless we have our own by then, and cannot spare time to watch anyone else.

    Even though it looks like containment has finally fallen in London, we've bought a crucial few weeks. As we see Italy's health system go under (remember, 10% of their medics are out of action in Lombardy with coronavirus), it will cause a change of behaviour over here, which should lower our R0.
    Let's hope so

    Again I salute the bravery of doctors and nurses, like foxy. They will be the front line. It won't be fun.

    Meanwhile, from the front line in America:

    https://twitter.com/matthewstoller/status/1235239113298759680?s=20
    America will never be the same when all this is done.

    Somewhere this generation's FDR is enjoying his or hers obscurity.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Here’s a bit of good news:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-51740214
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491


    Overround.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,373
    Floater said:

    eadric said:

    Chameleon said:

    FPT:

    eadric said:

    rottenborough said:

    eadric said:

    Chameleon said:

    eadric said:

    Just to underline this difference:


    Italy got its first case of corona on February 20th. It now has 2546 cases, with 160 recovered, and 79 deaths.

    Singapore got its first case of corona on January 21st (a month EARLIER). It now has 112 cases, with 78 recovered, and zero deaths

    A startling contrast.

    Your Italy figures don't have today yet. 3,089 cases, 107 deaths.
    Grim
    3.4%
    Gosh, it is, isn't it?

    Italy must be a week or two from a total seizure of its health service. We will be able to watch in real-time. Unless we have our own by then, and cannot spare time to watch anyone else.

    Even though it looks like containment has finally fallen in London, we've bought a crucial few weeks. As we see Italy's health system go under (remember, 10% of their medics are out of action in Lombardy with coronavirus), it will cause a change of behaviour over here, which should lower our R0.
    Let's hope so

    Again I salute the bravery of doctors and nurses, like foxy. They will be the front line. It won't be fun.

    Meanwhile, from the front line in America:

    https://twitter.com/matthewstoller/status/1235239113298759680?s=20
    Yes best wishes to all our medical staff.

    Putting themselves out there for the rest of us.
    "Pe aici nu se trece"
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    I know it is Guido but this is quite impressive

    https://order-order.com/2020/03/04/uk-ranked-best-world-epidemic-response-mitigation/
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Casino_Royale said:



    Overround.

    Chips with more chips is a bargain at £2.40
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,678
    https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1235300275344244738
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,767
    Non-virus thread of the day.

    https://twitter.com/ZaidJilani/status/1235038359359279110
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    I know it is Guido but this is quite impressive

    https://order-order.com/2020/03/04/uk-ranked-best-world-epidemic-response-mitigation/

    I'm sorry but the US being second makes that table entirely without credibility. I would have them somewhere in the mid 140s.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    rottenborough said:

    eadric said:

    Chameleon said:

    FPT:

    eadric said:

    rottenborough said:

    eadric said:

    Chameleon said:

    eadric said:

    Just to underline this difference:


    Italy got its first case of corona on February 20th. It now has 2546 cases, with 160 recovered, and 79 deaths.

    Singapore got its first case of corona on January 21st (a month EARLIER). It now has 112 cases, with 78 recovered, and zero deaths

    A startling contrast.

    Your Italy figures don't have today yet. 3,089 cases, 107 deaths.
    Grim
    3.4%
    Gosh, it is, isn't it?

    Italy must be a week or two from a total seizure of its health service. We will be able to watch in real-time. Unless we have our own by then, and cannot spare time to watch anyone else.

    Even though it looks like containment has finally fallen in London, we've bought a crucial few weeks. As we see Italy's health system go under (remember, 10% of their medics are out of action in Lombardy with coronavirus), it will cause a change of behaviour over here, which should lower our R0.
    Let's hope so

    Again I salute the bravery of doctors and nurses, like foxy. They will be the front line. It won't be fun.

    Meanwhile, from the front line in America:

    https://twitter.com/matthewstoller/status/1235239113298759680?s=20
    America will never be the same when all this is done.

    Somewhere this generation's FDR is enjoying his or hers obscurity.
    Just maybe if this had happened a few months earlier. It pains me to say it but Sanders is the only one who comes close to recognising the disaster that is American health care and I seriously question whether he is electable.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    DavidL said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    I know it is Guido but this is quite impressive

    https://order-order.com/2020/03/04/uk-ranked-best-world-epidemic-response-mitigation/

    I'm sorry but the US being second makes that table entirely without credibility. I would have them somewhere in the mid 140s.
    It was done months back. The US was prepared but did SFA when the time came.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,709
    IanB2 said:

    Casino_Royale said:



    Overround.

    Chips with more chips is a bargain at £2.40
    Yes, you'd want to order 2 cod without chips plus chips with extra chips, instead of 2 cod and chips.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,767
    IanB2 said:

    Casino_Royale said:



    Overround.

    Chips with more chips is a bargain at £2.40
    So the highlighted item just involves handing over 1.90 for an empty sheet of paper and a shot of vinegar.

    Must be Hackney.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,709
    edited March 2020
    DavidL said:

    rottenborough said:

    eadric said:

    Chameleon said:

    FPT:

    eadric said:

    rottenborough said:

    eadric said:

    Chameleon said:

    eadric said:

    Just to underline this difference:


    Italy got its first case of corona on February 20th. It now has 2546 cases, with 160 recovered, and 79 deaths.

    Singapore got its first case of corona on January 21st (a month EARLIER). It now has 112 cases, with 78 recovered, and zero deaths

    A startling contrast.

    Your Italy figures don't have today yet. 3,089 cases, 107 deaths.
    Grim
    3.4%
    Gosh, it is, isn't it?

    Italy must be a week or two from a total seizure of its health service. We will be able to watch in real-time. Unless we have our own by then, and cannot spare time to watch anyone else.

    Even though it looks like containment has finally fallen in London, we've bought a crucial few weeks. As we see Italy's health system go under (remember, 10% of their medics are out of action in Lombardy with coronavirus), it will cause a change of behaviour over here, which should lower our R0.
    Let's hope so

    Again I salute the bravery of doctors and nurses, like foxy. They will be the front line. It won't be fun.

    Meanwhile, from the front line in America:

    https://twitter.com/matthewstoller/status/1235239113298759680?s=20
    America will never be the same when all this is done.

    Somewhere this generation's FDR is enjoying his or hers obscurity.
    Just maybe if this had happened a few months earlier. It pains me to say it but Sanders is the only one who comes close to recognising the disaster that is American health care and I seriously question whether he is electable.
    I don't think Trump is ideological about it. Don't be surprised if he ends up beating Biden with something that looks like Sanders' plan.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    I know it is Guido but this is quite impressive

    https://order-order.com/2020/03/04/uk-ranked-best-world-epidemic-response-mitigation/

    I'm sorry but the US being second makes that table entirely without credibility. I would have them somewhere in the mid 140s.
    It was done months back. The US was prepared but did SFA when the time came.
    Ah, right. Ready on paper. In fairness so far the NHS has walked the walk but Singapore (who may have a climate advantage) must surely get the gold star.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    eadric said:

    IanB2 said:

    Here’s a bit of good news:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-51740214

    I clicked on that in the hope that it was news about a forthcoming vaccine, or a sudden slide in cases....


    Oh well.
    That sort of good news would have spoiled your ghoulish fun.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    IanB2 said:

    Casino_Royale said:



    Overround.

    Chips with more chips is a bargain at £2.40
    Chips without chips for £1.90 not so much.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    rottenborough said:

    Non-virus thread of the day.

    https://twitter.com/ZaidJilani/status/1235038359359279110

    One more heave has a allure all of its own. On its face all the Labour leadership candidates have signed up third time lucky as their defining feature.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    williamglenn said:

    DavidL said:

    rottenborough said:

    eadric said:

    Chameleon said:

    FPT:

    eadric said:

    rottenborough said:

    eadric said:

    Chameleon said:

    eadric said:

    Just to underline this difference:


    Italy got its first case of corona on February 20th. It now has 2546 cases, with 160 recovered, and 79 deaths.

    Singapore got its first case of corona on January 21st (a month EARLIER). It now has 112 cases, with 78 recovered, and zero deaths

    A startling contrast.

    Your Italy figures don't have today yet. 3,089 cases, 107 deaths.
    Grim
    3.4%
    Gosh, it is, isn't it?

    Italy must be a week or two from a total seizure of its health service. We will be able to watch in real-time. Unless we have our own by then, and cannot spare time to watch anyone else.

    Even though it looks like containment has finally fallen in London, we've bought a crucial few weeks. As we see Italy's health system go under (remember, 10% of their medics are out of action in Lombardy with coronavirus), it will cause a change of behaviour over here, which should lower our R0.
    Let's hope so

    Again I salute the bravery of doctors and nurses, like foxy. They will be the front line. It won't be fun.

    Meanwhile, from the front line in America:

    https://twitter.com/matthewstoller/status/1235239113298759680?s=20
    America will never be the same when all this is done.

    Somewhere this generation's FDR is enjoying his or hers obscurity.
    Just maybe if this had happened a few months earlier. It pains me to say it but Sanders is the only one who comes close to recognising the disaster that is American health care and I seriously question whether he is electable.
    I don't think Trump is ideological about it. Don't be surprised if he ends up beating Biden with something that looks like Sanders' plan.
    Trump did once ask why they couldn't just do Medicare for all but his handlers made him realise that wasn't an allowed idea.
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052
    Any flybe news?

    Surprised the govt haven't done more to support the company. If/when it goes bust, it'll have to be replaced by something that'll probably cost the govt even more money.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    williamglenn said:

    DavidL said:

    rottenborough said:

    eadric said:

    Chameleon said:

    FPT:

    eadric said:

    rottenborough said:

    eadric said:

    Chameleon said:

    eadric said:

    Just to underline this difference:


    Italy got its first case of corona on February 20th. It now has 2546 cases, with 160 recovered, and 79 deaths.

    Singapore got its first case of corona on January 21st (a month EARLIER). It now has 112 cases, with 78 recovered, and zero deaths

    A startling contrast.

    Your Italy figures don't have today yet. 3,089 cases, 107 deaths.
    Grim
    3.4%
    Gosh, it is, isn't it?

    Italy must be a week or two from a total seizure of its health service. We will be able to watch in real-time. Unless we have our own by then, and cannot spare time to watch anyone else.

    Even though it looks like containment has finally fallen in London, we've bought a crucial few weeks. As we see Italy's health system go under (remember, 10% of their medics are out of action in Lombardy with coronavirus), it will cause a change of behaviour over here, which should lower our R0.
    Let's hope so

    Again I salute the bravery of doctors and nurses, like foxy. They will be the front line. It won't be fun.

    Meanwhile, from the front line in America:

    https://twitter.com/matthewstoller/status/1235239113298759680?s=20
    America will never be the same when all this is done.

    Somewhere this generation's FDR is enjoying his or hers obscurity.
    Just maybe if this had happened a few months earlier. It pains me to say it but Sanders is the only one who comes close to recognising the disaster that is American health care and I seriously question whether he is electable.
    I don't think Trump is ideological about it. Don't be surprised if he ends up beating Biden with something that looks like Sanders' plan.
    Tbh, I would almost welcome that. If the US has to wait until next January before effective action is taken the US will have hundreds of thousands of dead. The time to act is now (well actually 3 months ago but you know what I mean).
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,678
    edited March 2020
    Dadge said:

    Any flybe news?

    Surprised the govt haven't done more to support the company. If/when it goes bust, it'll have to be replaced by something that'll probably cost the govt even more money.

    https://twitter.com/PeterAdamSmith/status/1235302201851072513
  • MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 757
    Casino_Royale said:



    Overround.

    Who goes into a chip shop and just buys "Cheese?"
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    edited March 2020
    Dadge said:

    Any flybe news?

    Surprised the govt haven't done more to support the company. If/when it goes bust, it'll have to be replaced by something that'll probably cost the govt even more money.

    Which parts do you think need to be replaced? For social need, one can subsidise carriers through PSO payments. For the rest of the network?
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    eadric said:

    IanB2 said:

    Here’s a bit of good news:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-51740214

    I clicked on that in the hope that it was news about a forthcoming vaccine, or a sudden slide in cases....

    Oh well.
    There's a short BBC video online for those who don't pay the TV poll tax

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/stories-51660982/criminals-on-cctv-scammers-caught-red-handed
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    eadric said:

    fpt as a public service

    A very helpful thread on avoiding infection, and proper use of masks.

    https://twitter.com/nCoVPerspectiv1/status/1232865651561136128?s=20

    Just reinforces my view that for the vast majority masks are a waste of time.

    WHO advice is only those caring for others need to wear masks:

    https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    eadric said:

    Chameleon said:

    FPT:

    eadric said:

    rottenborough said:

    eadric said:

    Chameleon said:

    eadric said:

    Just to underline this difference:


    Italy got its first case of corona on February 20th. It now has 2546 cases, with 160 recovered, and 79 deaths.

    Singapore got its first case of corona on January 21st (a month EARLIER). It now has 112 cases, with 78 recovered, and zero deaths

    A startling contrast.

    Your Italy figures don't have today yet. 3,089 cases, 107 deaths.
    Grim
    3.4%
    Gosh, it is, isn't it?

    Italy must be a week or two from a total seizure of its health service. We will be able to watch in real-time. Unless we have our own by then, and cannot spare time to watch anyone else.

    Even though it looks like containment has finally fallen in London, we've bought a crucial few weeks. As we see Italy's health system go under (remember, 10% of their medics are out of action in Lombardy with coronavirus), it will cause a change of behaviour over here, which should lower our R0.
    Let's hope so

    Again I salute the bravery of doctors and nurses, like foxy. They will be the front line. It won't be fun.

    Meanwhile, from the front line in America:

    https://twitter.com/matthewstoller/status/1235239113298759680?s=20
    It's worse. Read this thread from Washington:

    https://twitter.com/DarcyBurner/status/1234946039901085697
    https://twitter.com/DarcyBurner/status/1234947271298449409

    I know a few doctors out there who are saying very similar stuff, and are very frustrated because they can't get their patients tested, despite them having all the symptoms, and not having the flu.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    Dadge said:

    Any flybe news?

    Surprised the govt haven't done more to support the company. If/when it goes bust, it'll have to be replaced by something that'll probably cost the govt even more money.

    I have flights to the cesspit booked and paid for in June. Not hugely optimistic tonight.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    DavidL said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    I know it is Guido but this is quite impressive

    https://order-order.com/2020/03/04/uk-ranked-best-world-epidemic-response-mitigation/

    I'm sorry but the US being second makes that table entirely without credibility. I would have them somewhere in the mid 140s.
    Demand a recount.

    Although, not from within the US.....
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    As I watch case after case of people infected after visiting Italy this beggars belief

    https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/18269699.italy-trip-go-ahead-despite-coronavirus/

    TODAY they were still saying they intend to go.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    Casino_Royale said:



    Overround.

    Chips with more chips is a bargain at £2.40
    Chips without chips for £1.90 not so much.
    That is just the spam then?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    I know it is Guido but this is quite impressive

    https://order-order.com/2020/03/04/uk-ranked-best-world-epidemic-response-mitigation/

    I'm sorry but the US being second makes that table entirely without credibility. I would have them somewhere in the mid 140s.
    It was done months back. The US was prepared but did SFA when the time came.
    Ah, right. Ready on paper. In fairness so far the NHS has walked the walk but Singapore (who may have a climate advantage) must surely get the gold star.
    This actually highlights an interesting flaw in the assessment, which overlooks the cultural and system impediments to effective deployment.

    From a technical perspective, the US ticks all the boxes - medical expertise, equipment, technology, ability to detect, resources to mobilise rapidly, etc.

    It’s just that - leaving aside the moron who happens to be in charge - many human and cultural factors prevented the US from responding. Such as cultural hostility to government intervention, isolationism and a tendency to think the worlds problems can’t reach America, a health system set up for competition not co-operation, minimal free healthcare creating disincentives for people to get tested, lack of sick pay discouraging people from self isolation.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited March 2020
    Chameleon said:

    eadric said:

    Chameleon said:

    FPT:

    eadric said:

    rottenborough said:

    eadric said:

    Chameleon said:

    eadric said:

    Just to underline this difference:


    Italy got its first case of corona on February 20th. It now has 2546 cases, with 160 recovered, and 79 deaths.

    Singapore got its first case of corona on January 21st (a month EARLIER). It now has 112 cases, with 78 recovered, and zero deaths

    A startling contrast.

    Your Italy figures don't have today yet. 3,089 cases, 107 deaths.
    Grim
    3.4%
    Gosh, it is, isn't it?

    Italy must be a week or two from a total seizure of its health service. We will be able to watch in real-time. Unless we have our own by then, and cannot spare time to watch anyone else.

    Even though it looks like containment has finally fallen in London, we've bought a crucial few weeks. As we see Italy's health system go under (remember, 10% of their medics are out of action in Lombardy with coronavirus), it will cause a change of behaviour over here, which should lower our R0.
    Let's hope so

    Again I salute the bravery of doctors and nurses, like foxy. They will be the front line. It won't be fun.

    Meanwhile, from the front line in America:

    https://twitter.com/matthewstoller/status/1235239113298759680?s=20
    It's worse. Read this thread from Washington:

    https://twitter.com/DarcyBurner/status/1234946039901085697
    https://twitter.com/DarcyBurner/status/1234947271298449409

    I know a few doctors out there who are saying very similar stuff, and are very frustrated because they can't get their patients tested, despite them having all the symptoms, and not having the flu.
    It's truly a disgrace of a system for what is still the world's most powerful country. Sanders' almost religious fury is absolutely right on the injustice of this - to this extent at least he "gets it".
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    Floater said:

    As I watch case after case of people infected after visiting Italy this beggars belief

    https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/18269699.italy-trip-go-ahead-despite-coronavirus/

    TODAY they were still saying they intend to go.

    I've found this normalcy tendency argument really quite irritating and frankly an opportunity to duck inconsistencies but...
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,816
    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    Casino_Royale said:



    Overround.

    Chips with more chips is a bargain at £2.40
    Chips without chips for £1.90 not so much.
    Sounds like a crossword clue
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    MarqueeMark said:

    DavidL said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    I know it is Guido but this is quite impressive

    https://order-order.com/2020/03/04/uk-ranked-best-world-epidemic-response-mitigation/

    I'm sorry but the US being second makes that table entirely without credibility. I would have them somewhere in the mid 140s.
    Demand a recount.

    Although, not from within the US.....
    I am sure that they could get it done within weeks, well, months, well...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    williamglenn said:

    IanB2 said:

    Casino_Royale said:



    Overround.

    Chips with more chips is a bargain at £2.40
    Yes, you'd want to order 2 cod without chips plus chips with extra chips, instead of 2 cod and chips.
    Bravo!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,678
    edited March 2020
    Ignore
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    DavidL said:

    Floater said:

    As I watch case after case of people infected after visiting Italy this beggars belief

    https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/18269699.italy-trip-go-ahead-despite-coronavirus/

    TODAY they were still saying they intend to go.

    I've found this normalcy tendency argument really quite irritating and frankly an opportunity to duck inconsistencies but...
    Its irresponsible and selfish beyond measure - Having dealt with those arseholes on another matter I am not surprised.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,838
    Floater said:

    As I watch case after case of people infected after visiting Italy this beggars belief

    https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/18269699.italy-trip-go-ahead-despite-coronavirus/

    TODAY they were still saying they intend to go.

    It should be up to the Foreign Office to advise if they should go or not. They are just advising to avoid the 10 small towns.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,767
    Monkeys said:

    Casino_Royale said:



    Overround.

    Who goes into a chip shop and just buys "Cheese?"
    Surrender monkeys?
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    edited March 2020
    https://news.yahoo.com/crisis-yale-professor-said-u-143223472.html

    "It is well within the realm of possibility that there are 100,000 people infected with this right now in the United States," Forman said. "Healthcare providers may be being exposed, other patients may be being exposed, and until you can give confidence to people about those answers, we are in a crisis here."

    "It wouldn't surprise me if we were to learn that most major hospitals have coronavirus patients in them right now," he said.

    Forman said in a tweet on Sunday that the number of confirmed cases in the US would "explode" in the coming days as existing cases are documented.

    Quick reminder to America, if you healthcare providers are all sick, there is no one left to care. Mortality up.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    noneoftheabove said:

    Floater said:

    As I watch case after case of people infected after visiting Italy this beggars belief

    https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/18269699.italy-trip-go-ahead-despite-coronavirus/

    TODAY they were still saying they intend to go.

    It should be up to the Foreign Office to advise if they should go or not. They are just advising to avoid the 10 small towns.
    Let me share just a few recent occurrences

    1 new case in Romania. Patient recently returned from Italy. (Source)

    32 new cases in the United Kingdom. Twenty-nine patients have recently traveled from countries with outbreaks of coronavirus. Three other patients contracted the virus in the UK. (Source) ( a bunch from Italy)

    10 new cases in Belgium. Nine of the new patients recently returned from Italy.

    1 new case in Portugal. Patient recently traveled from Italy. (

    2 new cases in Iceland. Both patients recently traveled from Italy. (

    2 new cases in Sweden. One traveled from Iran and the other from Italy.

    All of these are from just TODAY

    Still think its ok?

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,003
    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1235306739446185990
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    Floater said:

    DavidL said:

    Floater said:

    As I watch case after case of people infected after visiting Italy this beggars belief

    https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/18269699.italy-trip-go-ahead-despite-coronavirus/

    TODAY they were still saying they intend to go.

    I've found this normalcy tendency argument really quite irritating and frankly an opportunity to duck inconsistencies but...
    Its irresponsible and selfish beyond measure - Having dealt with those arseholes on another matter I am not surprised.
    From what I’ve heard, they may struggle to fly, or at least land, there.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    I know it is Guido but this is quite impressive

    https://order-order.com/2020/03/04/uk-ranked-best-world-epidemic-response-mitigation/

    I'm sorry but the US being second makes that table entirely without credibility. I would have them somewhere in the mid 140s.
    It was done months back. The US was prepared but did SFA when the time came.
    Ah, right. Ready on paper. In fairness so far the NHS has walked the walk but Singapore (who may have a climate advantage) must surely get the gold star.
    This actually highlights an interesting flaw in the assessment, which overlooks the cultural and system impediments to effective deployment.

    From a technical perspective, the US ticks all the boxes - medical expertise, equipment, technology, ability to detect, resources to mobilise rapidly, etc.

    It’s just that - leaving aside the moron who happens to be in charge - many human and cultural factors prevented the US from responding. Such as cultural hostility to government intervention, isolationism and a tendency to think the worlds problems can’t reach America, a health system set up for competition not co-operation, minimal free healthcare creating disincentives for people to get tested, lack of sick pay discouraging people from self isolation.
    And yet we are talking about the country whose logistical genius won WW2. The achievements were endless.

    They won the battle of the Atlantic by building ships faster than the German U boats could sink them. One of my favourites is the Germans, who had been living on rats, in Monte Casino, who in a counter attack took some US trenches and found fresh cream cakes from Chicago. They surrendered.

    What the hell has happened?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Ignore

    Just that one or all your posts?

    :wink:
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Floater said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    Floater said:

    As I watch case after case of people infected after visiting Italy this beggars belief

    https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/18269699.italy-trip-go-ahead-despite-coronavirus/

    TODAY they were still saying they intend to go.

    It should be up to the Foreign Office to advise if they should go or not. They are just advising to avoid the 10 small towns.
    Let me share just a few recent occurrences

    1 new case in Romania. Patient recently returned from Italy. (Source)

    32 new cases in the United Kingdom. Twenty-nine patients have recently traveled from countries with outbreaks of coronavirus. Three other patients contracted the virus in the UK. (Source) ( a bunch from Italy)

    10 new cases in Belgium. Nine of the new patients recently returned from Italy.

    1 new case in Portugal. Patient recently traveled from Italy. (

    2 new cases in Iceland. Both patients recently traveled from Italy. (

    2 new cases in Sweden. One traveled from Iran and the other from Italy.

    All of these are from just TODAY

    Still think its ok?

    Depends on the base number of travellers. Most of Italy has so few cases that the odds of catching anything are tiny. Hence there must be tons of people leaving Italy with no problems.
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    RLB crap, Starmer good.

    Starmer doesn't answer questions but he's oddly charming, I don't mind
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1235306739446185990

    She's going to not be in the position much longer
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited March 2020
    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    I know it is Guido but this is quite impressive

    https://order-order.com/2020/03/04/uk-ranked-best-world-epidemic-response-mitigation/

    I'm sorry but the US being second makes that table entirely without credibility. I would have them somewhere in the mid 140s.
    It was done months back. The US was prepared but did SFA when the time came.
    Ah, right. Ready on paper. In fairness so far the NHS has walked the walk but Singapore (who may have a climate advantage) must surely get the gold star.
    This actually highlights an interesting flaw in the assessment, which overlooks the cultural and system impediments to effective deployment.

    From a technical perspective, the US ticks all the boxes - medical expertise, equipment, technology, ability to detect, resources to mobilise rapidly, etc.

    It’s just that - leaving aside the moron who happens to be in charge - many human and cultural factors prevented the US from responding. Such as cultural hostility to government intervention, isolationism and a tendency to think the worlds problems can’t reach America, a health system set up for competition not co-operation, minimal free healthcare creating disincentives for people to get tested, lack of sick pay discouraging people from self isolation.
    And yet we are talking about the country whose logistical genius won WW2. The achievements were endless.

    They won the battle of the Atlantic by building ships faster than the German U boats could sink them. One of my favourites is the Germans, who had been living on rats, in Monte Casino, who in a counter attack took some US trenches and found fresh cream cakes from Chicago. They surrendered.

    What the hell has happened?
    A narrowing of intellectual horizons and ideological dogma since the McCarthy period , supported by a large devout constituency, which was then enhanced and re-nourished during the Reagan period in response to the openings of the 1960s.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    WhisperingOracle said:

    Chameleon said:

    eadric said:

    Chameleon said:

    FPT:

    eadric said:

    rottenborough said:

    eadric said:

    Chameleon said:

    eadric said:

    Just to underline this difference:


    Italy got its first case of corona on February 20th. It now has 2546 cases, with 160 recovered, and 79 deaths.

    Singapore got its first case of corona on January 21st (a month EARLIER). It now has 112 cases, with 78 recovered, and zero deaths

    A startling contrast.

    Your Italy figures don't have today yet. 3,089 cases, 107 deaths.
    Grim
    3.4%
    Gosh, it is, isn't it?

    Italy must be a week or two from a total seizure of its health service. We will be able to watch in real-time. Unless we have our own by then, and cannot spare time to watch anyone else.

    Even though it looks like containment has finally fallen in London, we've bought a crucial few weeks. As we see Italy's health system go under (remember, 10% of their medics are out of action in Lombardy with coronavirus), it will cause a change of behaviour over here, which should lower our R0.
    Let's hope so

    Again I salute the bravery of doctors and nurses, like foxy. They will be the front line. It won't be fun.

    Meanwhile, from the front line in America:

    https://twitter.com/matthewstoller/status/1235239113298759680?s=20
    It's worse. Read this thread from Washington:

    https://twitter.com/DarcyBurner/status/1234946039901085697
    https://twitter.com/DarcyBurner/status/1234947271298449409

    I know a few doctors out there who are saying very similar stuff, and are very frustrated because they can't get their patients tested, despite them having all the symptoms, and not having the flu.
    It's truly a disgrace of a system for what is still the world's most powerful country. Sanders' almost religious fury is absolutely right on the injustice of this - to this extent at least he "gets it".
    I'm not that bothered by the injustice (I am, but obviously less than Sanders is). It's the rank stupidity that gets me. It's almost useful to have demonstrated so clearly the argument that looking after the poorest in society is to the benefit of all.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    AramintaMoonbeamQC said:

    rottenborough said:

    ydoethur said:

    alex_ said:

    Starmer recommits to nationalising everything. Bloody hell.

    No wonder Long Bailey is not gaining any traction with the left.
    I had almost forgotten that the Never Ending Labour Leadership contest still winds its weary way down to the special conference that will now be cancelled.
    Brillo is giving RLB a light toasting just now.

    She's currently claiming that the electorate weren't able to understand their policies.
    How is that possible with a 10/10 leader explaining them? Also I thought people liked the policies, so surely they understood them.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,767
    https://twitter.com/RBReich/status/1235242479579844608
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    edited March 2020
    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    I know it is Guido but this is quite impressive

    https://order-order.com/2020/03/04/uk-ranked-best-world-epidemic-response-mitigation/

    I'm sorry but the US being second makes that table entirely without credibility. I would have them somewhere in the mid 140s.
    It was done months back. The US was prepared but did SFA when the time came.
    Ah, right. Ready on paper. In fairness so far the NHS has walked the walk but Singapore (who may have a climate advantage) must surely get the gold star.
    This actually highlights an interesting flaw in the assessment, which overlooks the cultural and system impediments to effective deployment.

    From a technical perspective, the US ticks all the boxes - medical expertise, equipment, technology, ability to detect, resources to mobilise rapidly, etc.

    It’s just that - leaving aside the moron who happens to be in charge - many human and cultural factors prevented the US from responding. Such as cultural hostility to government intervention, isolationism and a tendency to think the worlds problems can’t reach America, a health system set up for competition not co-operation, minimal free healthcare creating disincentives for people to get tested, lack of sick pay discouraging people from self isolation.
    And yet we are talking about the country whose logistical genius won WW2. The achievements were endless.

    They won the battle of the Atlantic by building ships faster than the German U boats could sink them. One of my favourites is the Germans, who had been living on rats, in Monte Casino, who in a counter attack took some US trenches and found fresh cream cakes from Chicago. They surrendered.

    What the hell has happened?
    Firstly, some of those same factors kept them out of the war for a long time.

    Second, if you read up on the measures the Americans took to put their industry and people on a war footing, it’s dramatic stuff, and really was socialism. A lot of what we now see as enduring American sociology has actually developed during our lifetime. For example, US average working hours were once the shortest in the developed world. Government intervention built America - huge projects like the Erie Canal. At the beginning of the 20th century, the US was comparatively irreligious.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    I know it is Guido but this is quite impressive

    https://order-order.com/2020/03/04/uk-ranked-best-world-epidemic-response-mitigation/

    I'm sorry but the US being second makes that table entirely without credibility. I would have them somewhere in the mid 140s.
    It was done months back. The US was prepared but did SFA when the time came.
    Ah, right. Ready on paper. In fairness so far the NHS has walked the walk but Singapore (who may have a climate advantage) must surely get the gold star.
    This actually highlights an interesting flaw in the assessment, which overlooks the cultural and system impediments to effective deployment.

    From a technical perspective, the US ticks all the boxes - medical expertise, equipment, technology, ability to detect, resources to mobilise rapidly, etc.

    It’s just that - leaving aside the moron who happens to be in charge - many human and cultural factors prevented the US from responding. Such as cultural hostility to government intervention, isolationism and a tendency to think the worlds problems can’t reach America, a health system set up for competition not co-operation, minimal free healthcare creating disincentives for people to get tested, lack of sick pay discouraging people from self isolation.
    And yet we are talking about the country whose logistical genius won WW2. The achievements were endless.

    They won the battle of the Atlantic by building ships faster than the German U boats could sink them. One of my favourites is the Germans, who had been living on rats, in Monte Casino, who in a counter attack took some US trenches and found fresh cream cakes from Chicago. They surrendered.

    What the hell has happened?
    The modus operandi seems to be start slow and accelerate to victory. Look at the AWI, the Civil War, WW1, 2 (see Kasserine)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    edited March 2020
    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1235306739446185990

    She's going to not be in the position much longer
    How do you reckon that? Seems for the moment that she's not been politically damaged among those who will matter, and nothing else is relevant even if she personally slapped everyone in her department.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    williamglenn said:

    IanB2 said:

    Casino_Royale said:



    Overround.

    Chips with more chips is a bargain at £2.40
    Yes, you'd want to order 2 cod without chips plus chips with extra chips, instead of 2 cod and chips.
    This is what I call a properly British conversation.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    A few Coronavirus thoughts and learning for the last couple of days:

    1. Thanks @NickPalmer for the Vox article yesterday. Main take aways - the Chinese numbers are thought broadly credible and, one they got in gear, contact tracing was their best weapon. Happily something the UK seems to bed doing well, fingers crossed.

    2. The Italian numbers for their local outbreak are broadly in line with Chinese numbers for a bigger area. Having looked at lots of charts, it suggests to me that we are 5-12 days from the peak death rate of the Lodi centred epidemic and it has run 15-25% of its course.

    3. I'm not clear how Italy is reporting case by province. Exponenting case numbers exist beyond the current or proposed extension of the red zone - I don't know, in Milan's figures, for example, whether they are (a) reporting case numbers from red zone patients who are in Milanese hospitals (b) seeing cases of Milanese who have had contact with the Lodigiani &c, or (c) there is now local transmission in areas of Milan. Obviously this has great bearing on the likely course of the outbreak beyond the Lodi core.

    4. Kids look, not only to not get that ill, but to barely contract the virus when in contact. Even if things are bad, closing all schools across Italy, over the heads of the Civil Protection experts, seems like a misstep.

    5. We really should not be thinking of nations as having the virus, rather putting specific rings on maps for areas with local transmission, areas at high risk of local transmission, and other areas - the WHO template agreed yesterday with Italy was a good step.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660
    Endillion said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    Chameleon said:

    eadric said:

    Chameleon said:

    FPT:

    eadric said:

    rottenborough said:

    eadric said:

    Chameleon said:

    eadric said:

    Just to underline this difference:


    Italy got its first case of corona on February 20th. It now has 2546 cases, with 160 recovered, and 79 deaths.

    Singapore got its first case of corona on January 21st (a month EARLIER). It now has 112 cases, with 78 recovered, and zero deaths

    A startling contrast.

    Your Italy figures don't have today yet. 3,089 cases, 107 deaths.
    Grim
    3.4%
    Gosh, it is, isn't it?

    Italy must be a week or two from a total seizure of its health service. We will be able to watch in real-time. Unless we have our own by then, and cannot spare time to watch anyone else.

    Even though it looks like containment has finally fallen in London, we've bought a crucial few weeks. As we see Italy's health system go under (remember, 10% of their medics are out of action in Lombardy with coronavirus), it will cause a change of behaviour over here, which should lower our R0.
    Let's hope so

    Again I salute the bravery of doctors and nurses, like foxy. They will be the front line. It won't be fun.

    Meanwhile, from the front line in America:

    https://twitter.com/matthewstoller/status/1235239113298759680?s=20
    It's worse. Read this thread from Washington:

    https://twitter.com/DarcyBurner/status/1234946039901085697
    https://twitter.com/DarcyBurner/status/1234947271298449409

    I know a few doctors out there who are saying very similar stuff, and are very frustrated because they can't get their patients tested, despite them having all the symptoms, and not having the flu.
    It's truly a disgrace of a system for what is still the world's most powerful country. Sanders' almost religious fury is absolutely right on the injustice of this - to this extent at least he "gets it".
    I'm not that bothered by the injustice (I am, but obviously less than Sanders is). It's the rank stupidity that gets me. It's almost useful to have demonstrated so clearly the argument that looking after the poorest in society is to the benefit of all.
    Trump must have taken the sacrifice the weak for the economies benefit approach. I can't rationalise it any other way.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    RLB crap, Starmer good.

    Starmer doesn't answer questions but he's oddly charming, I don't mind

    Not answering questions is a core political skill, there's certainly little point in criticising him for it.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660
    Pro_Rata said:

    A few Coronavirus thoughts and learning for the last couple of days:

    1. Thanks @NickPalmer for the Vox article yesterday. Main take aways - the Chinese numbers are thought broadly credible and, one they got in gear, contact tracing was their best weapon. Happily something the UK seems to bed doing well, fingers crossed.

    2. The Italian numbers for their local outbreak are broadly in line with Chinese numbers for a bigger area. Having looked at lots of charts, it suggests to me that we are 5-12 days from the peak death rate of the Lodi centred epidemic and it has run 15-25% of its course.

    3. I'm not clear how Italy is reporting case by province. Exponenting case numbers exist beyond the current or proposed extension of the red zone - I don't know, in Milan's figures, for example, whether they are (a) reporting case numbers from red zone patients who are in Milanese hospitals (b) seeing cases of Milanese who have had contact with the Lodigiani &c, or (c) there is now local transmission in areas of Milan. Obviously this has great bearing on the likely course of the outbreak beyond the Lodi core.

    4. Kids look, not only to not get that ill, but to barely contract the virus when in contact. Even if things are bad, closing all schools across Italy, over the heads of the Civil Protection experts, seems like a misstep.

    5. We really should not be thinking of nations as having the virus, rather putting specific rings on maps for areas with local transmission, areas at high risk of local transmission, and other areas - the WHO template agreed yesterday with Italy was a good step.

    Children may not be able to catch it but their minders, support staff and grand support staff certainly do. Schools must a superb way of amplifying infection rates in a community.
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    kle4 said:

    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    RLB crap, Starmer good.

    Starmer doesn't answer questions but he's oddly charming, I don't mind

    Not answering questions is a core political skill, there's certainly little point in criticising him for it.
    He's better than Corbyn already then.

    He technically can be very good. If people get fed up of Johnson Starmer will do well.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Looks like those of us that believe the US stock market is a sell are going to get a third chance.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    edited March 2020
    rottenborough said:

    Non-virus thread of the day.

    https://twitter.com/ZaidJilani/status/1235038359359279110

    People believe their own hype, simple as that. It worked for them for a bit, so they doubled down. Boris will be the same. It's worked and will continue to work, until it doesn't, and then what looked like deliberate strategies will seem much more rote.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    WhisperingOracle said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    I know it is Guido but this is quite impressive

    https://order-order.com/2020/03/04/uk-ranked-best-world-epidemic-response-mitigation/

    I'm sorry but the US being second makes that table entirely without credibility. I would have them somewhere in the mid 140s.
    It was done months back. The US was prepared but did SFA when the time came.
    Ah, right. Ready on paper. In fairness so far the NHS has walked the walk but Singapore (who may have a climate advantage) must surely get the gold star.
    This actually highlights an interesting flaw in the assessment, which overlooks the cultural and system impediments to effective deployment.

    From a technical perspective, the US ticks all the boxes - medical expertise, equipment, technology, ability to detect, resources to mobilise rapidly, etc.

    It’s just that - leaving aside the moron who happens to be in charge - many human and cultural factors prevented the US from responding. Such as cultural hostility to government intervention, isolationism and a tendency to think the worlds problems can’t reach America, a health system set up for competition not co-operation, minimal free healthcare creating disincentives for people to get tested, lack of sick pay discouraging people from self isolation.
    And yet we are talking about the country whose logistical genius won WW2. The achievements were endless.

    They won the battle of the Atlantic by building ships faster than the German U boats could sink them. One of my favourites is the Germans, who had been living on rats, in Monte Casino, who in a counter attack took some US trenches and found fresh cream cakes from Chicago. They surrendered.

    What the hell has happened?
    A narrowing of intellectual horizons and ideological dogma since the McCarthy period , supported by a large devout constituency, which was then enhanced and re-nourished during the Reagan period in response to the openings of the 1960s.
    I think its more recent. Reagan quipped (at least I think it was a quip) that the most terrifying sentence in the English language was that, "I am from the government and I am here to help." The Republican party in particular seem to regard any government action other than the military to be morally reprehensible and doomed to incompetent failure. They no longer seem to believe in government at all. They certainly don't believe in paying for it. Society collapses in the face of such dogma sold without a control on electoral spending.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    kle4 said:

    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    RLB crap, Starmer good.

    Starmer doesn't answer questions but he's oddly charming, I don't mind

    Not answering questions is a core political skill, there's certainly little point in criticising him for it.
    He's better than Corbyn already then.

    He technically can be very good. If people get fed up of Johnson Starmer will do well.
    He's fine. Might be what people want sooner or later. Good or bad at least he has political skill, as you say.
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 3,855
    kle4 said:

    AramintaMoonbeamQC said:

    rottenborough said:

    ydoethur said:

    alex_ said:

    Starmer recommits to nationalising everything. Bloody hell.

    No wonder Long Bailey is not gaining any traction with the left.
    I had almost forgotten that the Never Ending Labour Leadership contest still winds its weary way down to the special conference that will now be cancelled.
    Brillo is giving RLB a light toasting just now.

    She's currently claiming that the electorate weren't able to understand their policies.
    How is that possible with a 10/10 leader explaining them? Also I thought people liked the policies, so surely they understood them.
    She claimed it was because they were indulging in triangulation and were 'too intellectual'.

    I'm sure that must have been the conversation on the doorsteps in Durham.
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    kle4 said:

    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    kle4 said:

    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    RLB crap, Starmer good.

    Starmer doesn't answer questions but he's oddly charming, I don't mind

    Not answering questions is a core political skill, there's certainly little point in criticising him for it.
    He's better than Corbyn already then.

    He technically can be very good. If people get fed up of Johnson Starmer will do well.
    He's fine. Might be what people want sooner or later. Good or bad at least he has political skill, as you say.
    If Biden wins, I suspect people will look at Starmer and think "we want some of that". Compared to Trump Biden will look boring as hell.

    As soon as the economy goes south, "exciting" Johnson will drop through the floor.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660
    IanB2 said:

    Looks like those of us that believe the US stock market is a sell are going to get a third chance.

    I do not understand the markets. Why is COVID in America causing so little concern in the financial world. Are they completely decoupled from America's actual economic outlook?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,932
    Casino_Royale said:

    williamglenn said:

    IanB2 said:

    Casino_Royale said:



    Overround.

    Chips with more chips is a bargain at £2.40
    Yes, you'd want to order 2 cod without chips plus chips with extra chips, instead of 2 cod and chips.
    This is what I call a properly British conversation.
    I've just eaten a tenner's worth of cod and chips. Pies look to be around the same price but cod costs twice as much here as on that menu.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    edited March 2020
    eadric said:

    Chameleon said:

    https://news.yahoo.com/crisis-yale-professor-said-u-143223472.html

    "It is well within the realm of possibility that there are 100,000 people infected with this right now in the United States," Forman said. "Healthcare providers may be being exposed, other patients may be being exposed, and until you can give confidence to people about those answers, we are in a crisis here."

    "It wouldn't surprise me if we were to learn that most major hospitals have coronavirus patients in them right now," he said.

    Forman said in a tweet on Sunday that the number of confirmed cases in the US would "explode" in the coming days as existing cases are documented.

    Quick reminder to America, if you healthcare providers are all sick, there is no one left to care. Mortality up.

    If America has 100,000 cases NOW, that probably means millions of Americans are going to die, whatever they do from this moment on.
    What we were saying about the unreliability and partiality of the Chinese data, we will soon be saying about the US.

    But there is no evidence that millions will die.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited March 2020
    I think we overestimate the paralells between US and UK politics, in this respect. Corbyn is not Sanders and Starmer is not Biden.

    Sanders is more like early twentieth-century American populist preachers, and Corbyn is more like Jean-Luc Melenchon.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    eadric said:

    IanB2 said:

    eadric said:

    IanB2 said:

    Here’s a bit of good news:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-51740214

    I clicked on that in the hope that it was news about a forthcoming vaccine, or a sudden slide in cases....


    Oh well.
    That sort of good news would have spoiled your ghoulish fun.
    Mate, I may feel somewhat vindicated, but I really really really wish I had been wrong, and I don't post for ghoulish fun (well, not unless I'm drunk)

    This virus is horrible. I fear it will take people very close to me, I fear it might take me, I fear it might take some on here. I hate it. This is a miserable state of affairs. It's gonna be like a bad war, probably.

    I'm still vaguely hoping the sunshine will cure, albeit without much evidence.
    There is certainly not much evidence of sunshine in this country.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    edited March 2020
    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    kle4 said:

    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    kle4 said:

    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    RLB crap, Starmer good.

    Starmer doesn't answer questions but he's oddly charming, I don't mind

    Not answering questions is a core political skill, there's certainly little point in criticising him for it.
    He's better than Corbyn already then.

    He technically can be very good. If people get fed up of Johnson Starmer will do well.
    He's fine. Might be what people want sooner or later. Good or bad at least he has political skill, as you say.
    If Biden wins, I suspect people will look at Starmer and think "we want some of that". Compared to Trump Biden will look boring as hell.

    As soon as the economy goes south, "exciting" Johnson will drop through the floor.
    I honestly don’t think most people consider that, any more than they look at Macron etc. Perhaps your engagement isn’t replicated by most of the electorate.

    I’d have thought what would cut through (and I think it still unlikely) is Biden saying things which indicate his brain is dribbling out of his ears. And the response will be laughter, not respect.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,003
    These are the same people currently in charge of managing a pandemic...

    https://twitter.com/pkelso/status/1235279751411097601
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    MightyAlex said:

    IanB2 said:

    Looks like those of us that believe the US stock market is a sell are going to get a third chance.

    I do not understand the markets. Why is COVID in America causing so little concern in the financial world. Are they completely decoupled from America's actual economic outlook?
    Markets can only concentrate on one thing at a time. The central bank has said the interest rate cut just made may only be for starters. And Bernie’s fall from grace cheers up the wealthy.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    MightyAlex said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    A few Coronavirus thoughts and learning for the last couple of days:

    1. Thanks @NickPalmer for the Vox article yesterday. Main take aways - the Chinese numbers are thought broadly credible and, one they got in gear, contact tracing was their best weapon. Happily something the UK seems to bed doing well, fingers crossed.

    2. The Italian numbers for their local outbreak are broadly in line with Chinese numbers for a bigger area. Having looked at lots of charts, it suggests to me that we are 5-12 days from the peak death rate of the Lodi centred epidemic and it has run 15-25% of its course.

    3. I'm not clear how Italy is reporting case by province. Exponenting case numbers exist beyond the current or proposed extension of the red zone - I don't know, in Milan's figures, for example, whether they are (a) reporting case numbers from red zone patients who are in Milanese hospitals (b) seeing cases of Milanese who have had contact with the Lodigiani &c, or (c) there is now local transmission in areas of Milan. Obviously this has great bearing on the likely course of the outbreak beyond the Lodi core.

    4. Kids look, not only to not get that ill, but to barely contract the virus when in contact. Even if things are bad, closing all schools across Italy, over the heads of the Civil Protection experts, seems like a misstep.

    5. We really should not be thinking of nations as having the virus, rather putting specific rings on maps for areas with local transmission, areas at high risk of local transmission, and other areas - the WHO template agreed yesterday with Italy was a good step.

    Children may not be able to catch it but their minders, support staff and grand support staff certainly do. Schools must a superb way of amplifying infection rates in a community.
    I agree with that - but in that respect a school is not that much of a special case compared with any other workplace. I'd have understood closing schools across the orange zone (about 1/3 of Italy, 20 million population in total) but across the South where there are few cases? This is what I mean when I say national borders are the wrong geography - specifying zones then redrawing diligently as soon as new facts emerge is better. And it sounds like the expert advice concurred.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,003
    https://twitter.com/ITVJoel/status/1235310148173942788
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    MarqueeMark said:

    williamglenn said:

    IanB2 said:

    Casino_Royale said:



    Overround.

    Chips with more chips is a bargain at £2.40
    Yes, you'd want to order 2 cod without chips plus chips with extra chips, instead of 2 cod and chips.
    Bravo!
    Yes, but if you order chips with chips.... how do you tell they haven’t short changed you on the chips ?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,678
    Me.


  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660
    IanB2 said:

    MightyAlex said:

    IanB2 said:

    Looks like those of us that believe the US stock market is a sell are going to get a third chance.

    I do not understand the markets. Why is COVID in America causing so little concern in the financial world. Are they completely decoupled from America's actual economic outlook?
    Markets can only concentrate on one thing at a time. The central bank has said the interest rate cut just made may only be for starters. And Bernie’s fall from grace cheers up the wealthy.
    If supply is declining, people stop working and the potential for millions of Americans to die increases every day. Surely the great orange emperor is wearing no clothes?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    edited March 2020
    eadric said:

    IanB2 said:

    eadric said:

    IanB2 said:

    Here’s a bit of good news:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-51740214

    I clicked on that in the hope that it was news about a forthcoming vaccine, or a sudden slide in cases....


    Oh well.
    That sort of good news would have spoiled your ghoulish fun.
    Mate, I may feel somewhat vindicated, but I really really really wish I had been wrong, and I don't post for ghoulish fun (well, not unless I'm drunk)

    This virus is horrible. I fear it will take people very close to me, I fear it might take me, I fear it might take some on here. I hate it. This is a miserable state of affairs. It's gonna be like a bad war, probably.

    I'm still vaguely hoping the sunshine will cure, albeit without much evidence.

    You are not behaving like that. The writer in you is enjoying the drama of the storyline way too much. I honestly think you have barely engaged with the human implications at all; the occasional remark by way of lip service is not the same as behaving in an adult and responsible way.

    And you are miles from being vindicated, since no-one predicted the whole thing would fizzle out in a fortnight. Millions will die, you have repeatedly said. Just in the UK. Lets see.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    edited March 2020
    Ok so Flybe flights are a gonner. Which airline do I buy my replacement tickets with? What airlines are still likely to be flying in mid June?

    Edit and what are the odds on UCL cancelling their June open day?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    Nigelb said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    williamglenn said:

    IanB2 said:

    Casino_Royale said:



    Overround.

    Chips with more chips is a bargain at £2.40
    Yes, you'd want to order 2 cod without chips plus chips with extra chips, instead of 2 cod and chips.
    Bravo!
    Yes, but if you order chips with chips.... how do you tell they haven’t short changed you on the chips ?
    It's a matter of honour, sir, dare you challenge the integrity of the noble chippy?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,678
    DavidL said:

    Ok so Flybe flights are a gonner. Which airline do I buy my replacement tickets with? What airlines are still likely to be flying in mid June?

    Edit and what are the odds on UCL cancelling their June open day?

    Where are you flying to (and from)?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    williamglenn said:

    IanB2 said:

    Casino_Royale said:



    Overround.

    Chips with more chips is a bargain at £2.40
    Yes, you'd want to order 2 cod without chips plus chips with extra chips, instead of 2 cod and chips.
    Bravo!
    Yes, but if you order chips with chips.... how do you tell they haven’t short changed you on the chips ?
    It's a matter of honour, sir, dare you challenge the integrity of the noble chippy?
    I’m just looking at their prices, and thinking... hmmmmm.....

    Anyway, like I said, how do you challenge their honour ?

    Unless, of course, you get a side order of chips to go with your chips with chips.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    MightyAlex said:

    IanB2 said:

    MightyAlex said:

    IanB2 said:

    Looks like those of us that believe the US stock market is a sell are going to get a third chance.

    I do not understand the markets. Why is COVID in America causing so little concern in the financial world. Are they completely decoupled from America's actual economic outlook?
    Markets can only concentrate on one thing at a time. The central bank has said the interest rate cut just made may only be for starters. And Bernie’s fall from grace cheers up the wealthy.
    If supply is declining, people stop working and the potential for millions of Americans to die increases every day. Surely the great orange emperor is wearing no clothes?
    You can still lose a lot of money while the emperor thinks he is clothed.

    Although I do think this one will turn quickly, if the emerging US news is as bad as it seems it will be.
This discussion has been closed.