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  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gabs3 said:

    Why is no-one talking about the anti-Muslim pogroms in India right now? Police standing by while innocent victims are beaten. This could easily spiral into genocide.

    I’m afraid the honest answer is probably because the British media has little or no interest in India. I only found out about it a few minutes ago, after three days. It certainly sounds extremely grim.
    The anti Muslim Modi mobs have going on for months now.
    I don’t know why but anyway I meet from Bombay calls it Bombay, not Mumbai.

    I’m up for that because I much prefer calling it Bombay as an English speaker anyway, we don’t call Vienna “Wien”, for example.

    I’m not sure if it means anything.
    I don’t think I’ve ever had a Chicken Chennai for dinner.

    The Indians all use use old names, even Mumbai airport is still BOM on your ticket.
    That doesn't mean much, Ho Chin Min City is still SGN too.

    Nobody calls Harare "Salisbury" any more.
  • A long-term effect of the virus could be that some manufacturing firms diversify away some of their critical just-in-time supply chains away from China.

    Unless they clamp down on trading live bats in weird animal markets this could happen again.
  • Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gabs3 said:

    Why is no-one talking about the anti-Muslim pogroms in India right now? Police standing by while innocent victims are beaten. This could easily spiral into genocide.

    I’m afraid the honest answer is probably because the British media has little or no interest in India. I only found out about it a few minutes ago, after three days. It certainly sounds extremely grim.
    The anti Muslim Modi mobs have going on for months now.
    I don’t know why but anyway I meet from Bombay calls it Bombay, not Mumbai.

    I’m up for that because I much prefer calling it Bombay as an English speaker anyway, we don’t call Vienna “Wien”, for example.

    I’m not sure if it means anything.
    I don’t think I’ve ever had a Chicken Chennai for dinner.

    The Indians all use use old names, even Mumbai airport is still BOM on your ticket.
    That doesn't mean much, Ho Chin Min City is still SGN too.

    Nobody calls Harare "Salisbury" any more.
    I do. Rhodesia never dies.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    A long-term effect of the virus could be that some manufacturing firms diversify away some of their critical just-in-time supply chains away from China.

    Unless they clamp down on trading live bats in weird animal markets this could happen again.

    China banned the wildlife trade on monday, so at least one good outcome. After this, I expect it to be enforced too.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,210

    Morning all,

    "Mr. Bloomberg joined in, saying of Mr. Sanders: “Can anybody in this room imagine moderate Republicans going over and voting for him?” "

    That is the key question. I am pretty sure we know the answer.

    Fortunately for Mr Bloomberg debates make less difference than people think. He does however make a strong case for Biden here.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Where are those early votes happening in TX ? Austin you say ?

    https://www.fox7austin.com/news/travis-county-on-track-to-shatter-record-for-voter-turnout

    Gee I can't possibly think who they might vote for there.

    True, but the time distribution curve of votes doesn’t really matter.

    Only the totals.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Interesting piece. On the BBC Ten last night a British couple currently in Milan were commenting that everything is shut 'except the churches.' This has evidently been an issue in South Korea and in Iran with religious gatherings.

    Moral of the story? Avoid religion. :smiley:

    p.s. The Singapore Times needs training on how to write a Newspaper headline ;)
    Mass was cancelled across a lot of Italy on Sunday. Communion would be particularly unwise. Today is Ash Wednesday, of course.

    No alcohol for me this Lent.
    Communion would be fine as long as everyone dipped.
    So the germs on their hands end up in the wine instead?
    Well if you really want to go ott you could install a hand sanitiser but I think that is OTT.
    The logical solution is for the celebrant to use hand sanitizer and intinct the wafers themselves.

    But that would be sensible and will therefore not happen.
    I don't think the RC laity get wine at all do they?
    It depends. In Hampstead, no. Here in Cumbria we do.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    Sounds like Sanders lost a little momentum and Biden gained some and the former VP should now win the South Carolina primary on Saturday.

    Beyond that however Sanders remains clear favourite and all Buttigieg's attacks on Sanders for being unelectable will do is ensure the South Bend Mayor is struck off the Vermont Senator's VP list
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gabs3 said:

    Why is no-one talking about the anti-Muslim pogroms in India right now? Police standing by while innocent victims are beaten. This could easily spiral into genocide.

    I’m afraid the honest answer is probably because the British media has little or no interest in India. I only found out about it a few minutes ago, after three days. It certainly sounds extremely grim.
    The anti Muslim Modi mobs have going on for months now.
    I don’t know why but anyway I meet from Bombay calls it Bombay, not Mumbai.

    I’m up for that because I much prefer calling it Bombay as an English speaker anyway, we don’t call Vienna “Wien”, for example.

    I’m not sure if it means anything.
    I don’t think I’ve ever had a Chicken Chennai for dinner.

    The Indians all use use old names, even Mumbai airport is still BOM on your ticket.
    That doesn't mean much, Ho Chin Min City is still SGN too.

    Nobody calls Harare "Salisbury" any more.
    I do. Rhodesia never dies.
    Wow.

    So you refer to Zambia as Northern Rhodesia and Zimbabwe as Southern Rhodesia?
  • Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gabs3 said:

    Why is no-one talking about the anti-Muslim pogroms in India right now? Police standing by while innocent victims are beaten. This could easily spiral into genocide.

    I’m afraid the honest answer is probably because the British media has little or no interest in India. I only found out about it a few minutes ago, after three days. It certainly sounds extremely grim.
    The anti Muslim Modi mobs have going on for months now.
    I don’t know why but anyway I meet from Bombay calls it Bombay, not Mumbai.

    I’m up for that because I much prefer calling it Bombay as an English speaker anyway, we don’t call Vienna “Wien”, for example.

    I’m not sure if it means anything.
    I don’t think I’ve ever had a Chicken Chennai for dinner.

    The Indians all use use old names, even Mumbai airport is still BOM on your ticket.
    Begs the question why they renamed all the places and ruined it then.

    Kolkata being perhaps the weirdest one.
  • ydoethur said:

    Nor do I want to be rich. That attracts attention and hangers-on. I want comfort and peace.

    So I’d say a low six-figure salary for a numbers of years

    And you think that wouldn’t make you rich?!!
    No.
    You'd be rich to me. I guess I'd be rich to the bloke huddled in the shop doorway this morning, waiting to get moved on once the town centre opens.
    We can split hairs but you and I both know that’s not rich.

    Bloomberg and Trump are rich. Branson is rich.

    A medical consultant is just well off.
  • Foxy said:


    So, I was reading this in The Atlantic yesterday. I may not have understood it properly, but as far as I can tell what it is saying is that Covid-19 is set to become what is essentially a new strain of winter illnesss, alongside colds and flu. If that is the case, though, why has it engendered so much panic. What am I missing?

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/covid-vaccine/607000/

    Because current estimates suggest it could be 20 times more deadly than flu. Perhaps more, perhaps less. But no-one on earth really knows, that is part of the problem and part of the fear.

    But if we take our current best estimate it will virtually certainly overwhelm health care systems across the globe. The response will be a crisis in civil society, a break down in law and order, the destruction of whole swathes of the economy and a fundamental shift in the way that life currently exists.

    Apart from that, nothing. There are lots of other things which I don't want to think about at the moment.

    You want all that in perpetuity? Let's hope not.
    I wouldn't go quite that far. An economic hit is pretty nailed on, but sensible containment policies and contact tracing hopefully keep things at manageable levels. SARS and MERS both faded away. Covid 19 is more infectious, so will be harder, but I am an optimist. The next six months could be pretty nasty though.
    Have you heard of Coldzyme? It forms a protective barrier in the throat that deactivates common viruses including human coronavirus according to their company website.

    https://www.enzymatica.se/en/research-and-development/coldzyme-studies/

    Likely to be any use?

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148

    So, I was reading this in The Atlantic yesterday. I may not have understood it properly, but as far as I can tell what it is saying is that Covid-19 is set to become what is essentially a new strain of winter illnesss, alongside colds and flu. If that is the case, though, why has it engendered so much panic. What am I missing?

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/covid-vaccine/607000/

    Because not all flus and colds are equal. Eg Spanish flu didn’t just kill off the old and weak. It killed normal healthy young people.
    Spanish flu had a 20% death rate though, coronavirus has a 1 to 2% death rate, black death had an 80% death rate
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited February 2020

    ydoethur said:

    TimT said:

    My impression viewing the debate was that Warren, Steyer, Klobuchar and Mayor Pete are no longer relevant. It's between Bernie, Bloomberg and Biden.

    Three creepy white rich guys from the northeast who are all 76 or older and two of whom are not even Democrats.

    What could possibly be a drawback with such a field?
    The only candidates for President are four old white guys in various shades of narcissistic trauma and general decrepitude, offering their own selection of bat-shit craziness. For the next four years.

    Only one of whom is a Democrat.

    Way to go, primary system.....
    Nailed it

    Barring a Disease X catastrophe, I can't see Trump losing. The only one who could lay a finger on him is probably Mike Bloomberg, but the Democrats decided to tear into him instead.

    What a mess.
    The most recent polls aren't showing this at all, and the Republicans have shifted their attitude on Sanders.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148

    ydoethur said:

    Nor do I want to be rich. That attracts attention and hangers-on. I want comfort and peace.

    So I’d say a low six-figure salary for a numbers of years

    And you think that wouldn’t make you rich?!!
    No.
    You'd be rich to me. I guess I'd be rich to the bloke huddled in the shop doorway this morning, waiting to get moved on once the town centre opens.
    We can split hairs but you and I both know that’s not rich.

    Bloomberg and Trump are rich. Branson is rich.

    A medical consultant is just well off.
    They are all rich to the average earner, just the former are super rich
  • Foxy said:

    A long-term effect of the virus could be that some manufacturing firms diversify away some of their critical just-in-time supply chains away from China.

    Unless they clamp down on trading live bats in weird animal markets this could happen again.

    China banned the wildlife trade on monday, so at least one good outcome. After this, I expect it to be enforced too.
    Isn’t that temporary though?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Foxy said:


    So, I was reading this in The Atlantic yesterday. I may not have understood it properly, but as far as I can tell what it is saying is that Covid-19 is set to become what is essentially a new strain of winter illnesss, alongside colds and flu. If that is the case, though, why has it engendered so much panic. What am I missing?

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/covid-vaccine/607000/

    Because current estimates suggest it could be 20 times more deadly than flu. Perhaps more, perhaps less. But no-one on earth really knows, that is part of the problem and part of the fear.

    But if we take our current best estimate it will virtually certainly overwhelm health care systems across the globe. The response will be a crisis in civil society, a break down in law and order, the destruction of whole swathes of the economy and a fundamental shift in the way that life currently exists.

    Apart from that, nothing. There are lots of other things which I don't want to think about at the moment.

    You want all that in perpetuity? Let's hope not.
    I wouldn't go quite that far. An economic hit is pretty nailed on, but sensible containment policies and contact tracing hopefully keep things at manageable levels. SARS and MERS both faded away. Covid 19 is more infectious, so will be harder, but I am an optimist. The next six months could be pretty nasty though.
    Have you heard of Coldzyme? It forms a protective barrier in the throat that deactivates common viruses including human coronavirus according to their company website.

    https://www.enzymatica.se/en/research-and-development/coldzyme-studies/

    Likely to be any use?

    Not something that I am familiar with, but I believe that transmission of Covid 19 is mostly from nasal aerosol.
  • HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nor do I want to be rich. That attracts attention and hangers-on. I want comfort and peace.

    So I’d say a low six-figure salary for a numbers of years

    And you think that wouldn’t make you rich?!!
    No.
    You'd be rich to me. I guess I'd be rich to the bloke huddled in the shop doorway this morning, waiting to get moved on once the town centre opens.
    We can split hairs but you and I both know that’s not rich.

    Bloomberg and Trump are rich. Branson is rich.

    A medical consultant is just well off.
    They are all rich to the average earner, just the former are super rich
    No. Wrong again.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Foxy said:

    A long-term effect of the virus could be that some manufacturing firms diversify away some of their critical just-in-time supply chains away from China.

    Unless they clamp down on trading live bats in weird animal markets this could happen again.

    China banned the wildlife trade on monday, so at least one good outcome. After this, I expect it to be enforced too.
    Isn’t that temporary though?
    I don't know. I would be surprised if they didn't make it permanent. China doesn't want a repeat.
  • ydoethur said:

    Nor do I want to be rich. That attracts attention and hangers-on. I want comfort and peace.

    So I’d say a low six-figure salary for a numbers of years

    And you think that wouldn’t make you rich?!!
    No.
    You'd be rich to me. I guess I'd be rich to the bloke huddled in the shop doorway this morning, waiting to get moved on once the town centre opens.
    We can split hairs but you and I both know that’s not rich.

    Bloomberg and Trump are rich. Branson is rich.

    A medical consultant is just well off.
    What does it take to be super-rich on your scale?
  • ydoethur said:

    Nor do I want to be rich. That attracts attention and hangers-on. I want comfort and peace.

    So I’d say a low six-figure salary for a numbers of years

    And you think that wouldn’t make you rich?!!
    No.
    You'd be rich to me. I guess I'd be rich to the bloke huddled in the shop doorway this morning, waiting to get moved on once the town centre opens.
    We can split hairs but you and I both know that’s not rich.

    Bloomberg and Trump are rich. Branson is rich.

    A medical consultant is just well off.
    What does it take to be super-rich on your scale?
    I’ve already explained what rich is up thread. Enough that you don’t need to work.

    Assets of at least £5m+ and an annual income of £1m+. Ten times that for super rich.

    If you’re earning £120k but started with nothing and are paying a big mortgage and cost for your kids education you are well off, but not rich.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nor do I want to be rich. That attracts attention and hangers-on. I want comfort and peace.

    So I’d say a low six-figure salary for a numbers of years

    And you think that wouldn’t make you rich?!!
    No.
    You'd be rich to me. I guess I'd be rich to the bloke huddled in the shop doorway this morning, waiting to get moved on once the town centre opens.
    We can split hairs but you and I both know that’s not rich.

    Bloomberg and Trump are rich. Branson is rich.

    A medical consultant is just well off.
    They are all rich to the average earner, just the former are super rich
    No. Wrong again.
    No, absolutely right and it is very arrogant to average earners and the poor and unemployed to suggest if you are on a 6 figure salary you are not rich
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nor do I want to be rich. That attracts attention and hangers-on. I want comfort and peace.

    So I’d say a low six-figure salary for a numbers of years

    And you think that wouldn’t make you rich?!!
    No.
    You'd be rich to me. I guess I'd be rich to the bloke huddled in the shop doorway this morning, waiting to get moved on once the town centre opens.
    We can split hairs but you and I both know that’s not rich.

    Bloomberg and Trump are rich. Branson is rich.

    A medical consultant is just well off.
    They are all rich to the average earner, just the former are super rich
    No. Wrong again.
    No, absolutely right and it is very arrogant to average earners and the poor and unemployed to suggest if you are on a 6 figure salary you are not rich
    No, absolutely wrong.

    I’m not interested in discussing this further. I know I’m right.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065

    So, I was reading this in The Atlantic yesterday. I may not have understood it properly, but as far as I can tell what it is saying is that Covid-19 is set to become what is essentially a new strain of winter illnesss, alongside colds and flu. If that is the case, though, why has it engendered so much panic. What am I missing?

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/covid-vaccine/607000/

    The main fuss is due to: it's a new strain of virus, which is killing people, so far there is no vaccine and media outlets love a story like this.

    Yes, that is a good article. I was reading a couple of weeks ago, that there is a good chance this new variant of corona virus, which at the time had no name, will become a standard illness in future winters like colds and influenza.

    Lock down and qarrantine does seem harsh for those locked down, especially those on the cruise ship, where the chances of the virus spreading amongst the passengers was likely. But we have to counter this with the principle that containment is a good strategy, when very little is known about the disease in the outbreak but there is the potential to have a high death rate.

    Things have moved on a lot in the last two weeks. We now know that the disease can be transmitted by people with no symptoms, and those who test negative at first. We now know that the diseas is not the rampant killer that H5N1 was, but that the death rate is high enough to take the spread of the virus seriously. We certainly should not be ignoring it.

    It now seems that a large proportion of the population will be *exposed* to the COVID 19 virus, although nobody can tell if the prevalence will be 5% or 50%. a good easy to understand information campaign consistent accross countries could make a huge difference to the number of deaths this spring, probably more so than cancelling sports events, concerts etc. As pointed out by others here, delaying the transmission rate of the virus can have a huge effect on the total number of cases, especially as the transmission and symptoms are exascerbated by winter conditions.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited February 2020

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nor do I want to be rich. That attracts attention and hangers-on. I want comfort and peace.

    So I’d say a low six-figure salary for a numbers of years

    And you think that wouldn’t make you rich?!!
    No.
    You'd be rich to me. I guess I'd be rich to the bloke huddled in the shop doorway this morning, waiting to get moved on once the town centre opens.
    We can split hairs but you and I both know that’s not rich.

    Bloomberg and Trump are rich. Branson is rich.

    A medical consultant is just well off.
    They are all rich to the average earner, just the former are super rich
    No. Wrong again.
    No, absolutely right and it is very arrogant to average earners and the poor and unemployed to suggest if you are on a 6 figure salary you are not rich
    No, absolutely wrong.

    I’m not interested in discussing this further. I know I’m right.
    You are wrong, even in the US if you earn a $100 000 a year 56% of US voters consider you are rich

    https://today.yougov.com/topics/economy/articles-reports/2019/01/14/how-much-money-do-you-need-earn-year-be-rich

    In the UK once you reach only £60 500 a year then 68% of voters think you are rich

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2017/06/02/how-much-money-do-you-need-earn-year-be-rich
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148

    ydoethur said:

    Nor do I want to be rich. That attracts attention and hangers-on. I want comfort and peace.

    So I’d say a low six-figure salary for a numbers of years

    And you think that wouldn’t make you rich?!!
    No.
    You'd be rich to me. I guess I'd be rich to the bloke huddled in the shop doorway this morning, waiting to get moved on once the town centre opens.
    We can split hairs but you and I both know that’s not rich.

    Bloomberg and Trump are rich. Branson is rich.

    A medical consultant is just well off.
    What does it take to be super-rich on your scale?
    I’ve already explained what rich is up thread. Enough that you don’t need to work.

    Assets of at least £5m+ and an annual income of £1m+. Ten times that for super rich.

    If you’re earning £120k but started with nothing and are paying a big mortgage and cost for your kids education you are well off, but not rich.
    That is rubbish, that excludes even most of the top 1% by income and assets
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    A long-term effect of the virus could be that some manufacturing firms diversify away some of their critical just-in-time supply chains away from China.

    Unless they clamp down on trading live bats in weird animal markets this could happen again.

    China banned the wildlife trade on monday, so at least one good outcome. After this, I expect it to be enforced too.
    Isn’t that temporary though?
    I don't know. I would be surprised if they didn't make it permanent. China doesn't want a repeat.
    Like President Mitterrand eating ortolans as his last meal so a formal ban will make no real change. A nation which believes in snorting dried tiger cock on the basis it will make them particularly hard will have no difficulty in continuing to eat barbecued lemur. Particularly as Communist Party officials won’t stop.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    Foxy said:


    So, I was reading this in The Atlantic yesterday. I may not have understood it properly, but as far as I can tell what it is saying is that Covid-19 is set to become what is essentially a new strain of winter illnesss, alongside colds and flu. If that is the case, though, why has it engendered so much panic. What am I missing?

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/covid-vaccine/607000/

    Because current estimates suggest it could be 20 times more deadly than flu. Perhaps more, perhaps less. But no-one on earth really knows, that is part of the problem and part of the fear.

    But if we take our current best estimate it will virtually certainly overwhelm health care systems across the globe. The response will be a crisis in civil society, a break down in law and order, the destruction of whole swathes of the economy and a fundamental shift in the way that life currently exists.

    Apart from that, nothing. There are lots of other things which I don't want to think about at the moment.

    You want all that in perpetuity? Let's hope not.
    I wouldn't go quite that far. An economic hit is pretty nailed on, but sensible containment policies and contact tracing hopefully keep things at manageable levels. SARS and MERS both faded away. Covid 19 is more infectious, so will be harder, but I am an optimist. The next six months could be pretty nasty though.
    SARS and MERS were easier to contain had much higher death rates than the best estimate for Covid-19.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nor do I want to be rich. That attracts attention and hangers-on. I want comfort and peace.

    So I’d say a low six-figure salary for a numbers of years

    And you think that wouldn’t make you rich?!!
    No.
    You'd be rich to me. I guess I'd be rich to the bloke huddled in the shop doorway this morning, waiting to get moved on once the town centre opens.
    We can split hairs but you and I both know that’s not rich.

    Bloomberg and Trump are rich. Branson is rich.

    A medical consultant is just well off.
    They are all rich to the average earner, just the former are super rich
    No. Wrong again.
    No, absolutely right and it is very arrogant to average earners and the poor and unemployed to suggest if you are on a 6 figure salary you are not rich
    No, absolutely wrong.

    I’m not interested in discussing this further. I know I’m right.
    You are wrong, even in the US if you earn a $100 000 a year 56% of US voters consider you are rich

    https://today.yougov.com/topics/economy/articles-reports/2019/01/14/how-much-money-do-you-need-earn-year-be-rich

    In the UK once you reach only £60 500 a year then 68% of voters think you are rich

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2017/06/02/how-much-money-do-you-need-earn-year-be-rich
    86% of British voters think someone earning £150 000 a year or more is rich

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2017/06/02/how-much-money-do-you-need-earn-year-be-rich
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359
    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    ydoethur said:


    It’s OK to be old as well. Indeed, most of us aspire to be old at some point in the future. Or rich. Most people want to be rich. Admittedly, some people get agitated when they’re not and start shooting rich people (hello, Lenin).

    Father Lenin, who was correct in all things, came from quite a wealthy family. He was certainly rich by the standards of the Russian Empire at the time.
    So just a sociopath, then.

    In other news, empirical evidence that rich drivers tend to be assholes:
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/drivers-of-expensive-cars-are-more-dangerous-to-pedestrians-m0nbmzk80
    Shares opened well down again , another £11K plus drop for me.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Morning all,

    "Mr. Bloomberg joined in, saying of Mr. Sanders: “Can anybody in this room imagine moderate Republicans going over and voting for him?” "

    That is the key question. I am pretty sure we know the answer.

    And the answer should have been

    “As a former Republican governor you should know!“
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    matt said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    A long-term effect of the virus could be that some manufacturing firms diversify away some of their critical just-in-time supply chains away from China.

    Unless they clamp down on trading live bats in weird animal markets this could happen again.

    China banned the wildlife trade on monday, so at least one good outcome. After this, I expect it to be enforced too.
    Isn’t that temporary though?
    I don't know. I would be surprised if they didn't make it permanent. China doesn't want a repeat.
    Like President Mitterrand eating ortolans as his last meal so a formal ban will make no real change. A nation which believes in snorting dried tiger cock on the basis it will make them particularly hard will have no difficulty in continuing to eat barbecued lemur. Particularly as Communist Party officials won’t stop.
    If the Chinese population falls below 1 billion that starts to hit their economy given their ageing population and former 1 child policy
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gabs3 said:

    Why is no-one talking about the anti-Muslim pogroms in India right now? Police standing by while innocent victims are beaten. This could easily spiral into genocide.

    I’m afraid the honest answer is probably because the British media has little or no interest in India. I only found out about it a few minutes ago, after three days. It certainly sounds extremely grim.
    The anti Muslim Modi mobs have going on for months now.
    I don’t know why but anyway I meet from Bombay calls it Bombay, not Mumbai.

    I’m up for that because I much prefer calling it Bombay as an English speaker anyway, we don’t call Vienna “Wien”, for example.

    I’m not sure if it means anything.
    I don’t think I’ve ever had a Chicken Chennai for dinner.

    The Indians all use use old names, even Mumbai airport is still BOM on your ticket.
    That doesn't mean much, Ho Chin Min City is still SGN too.

    Nobody calls Harare "Salisbury" any more.
    I do. Rhodesia never dies.
    That’s a bit weird, even in jest

    It’s a matter of courtesy. If the government of somewhere changes its name then it’s polite to follow.

    Hence Beijing, Mumbai, Derry etc
  • Re Sanders, he's become a far more accomplished campaigner than last time - look at this video :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYmlzB7AIWM

    The video below may help to show why he's polling ahead of Trump in places like Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxb5S87O23s
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gabs3 said:

    Why is no-one talking about the anti-Muslim pogroms in India right now? Police standing by while innocent victims are beaten. This could easily spiral into genocide.

    I’m afraid the honest answer is probably because the British media has little or no interest in India. I only found out about it a few minutes ago, after three days. It certainly sounds extremely grim.
    The anti Muslim Modi mobs have going on for months now.
    I don’t know why but anyway I meet from Bombay calls it Bombay, not Mumbai.

    I’m up for that because I much prefer calling it Bombay as an English speaker anyway, we don’t call Vienna “Wien”, for example.

    I’m not sure if it means anything.
    I don’t think I’ve ever had a Chicken Chennai for dinner.

    The Indians all use use old names, even Mumbai airport is still BOM on your ticket.
    Begs the question why they renamed all the places and ruined it then.

    Kolkata being perhaps the weirdest one.
    That's just how it's spelled and correctly transliterated in Bengali as is the case with Mumbai in Marathi.

    Most of the city name changes are to correct the spelling invented by half witted Englishmen or to reflect the dominant language of the state in which they are located.

    The Indians have shrugged the yoke of imperialism that enslaved and impoverished them for so long. You're going to have to get over it.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Cyclefree said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Interesting piece. On the BBC Ten last night a British couple currently in Milan were commenting that everything is shut 'except the churches.' This has evidently been an issue in South Korea and in Iran with religious gatherings.

    Moral of the story? Avoid religion. :smiley:

    p.s. The Singapore Times needs training on how to write a Newspaper headline ;)
    Mass was cancelled across a lot of Italy on Sunday. Communion would be particularly unwise. Today is Ash Wednesday, of course.

    No alcohol for me this Lent.
    Communion would be fine as long as everyone dipped.
    So the germs on their hands end up in the wine instead?
    Well if you really want to go ott you could install a hand sanitiser but I think that is OTT.
    The logical solution is for the celebrant to use hand sanitizer and intinct the wafers themselves.

    But that would be sensible and will therefore not happen.
    I don't think the RC laity get wine at all do they?
    It depends. In Hampstead, no. Here in Cumbria we do.
    Hmm... are you saying that transubstansiation isn’t a thing any more?
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    edited February 2020
    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gabs3 said:

    Why is no-one talking about the anti-Muslim pogroms in India right now? Police standing by while innocent victims are beaten. This could easily spiral into genocide.

    I’m afraid the honest answer is probably because the British media has little or no interest in India. I only found out about it a few minutes ago, after three days. It certainly sounds extremely grim.
    The anti Muslim Modi mobs have going on for months now.
    I don’t know why but anyway I meet from Bombay calls it Bombay, not Mumbai.

    I’m up for that because I much prefer calling it Bombay as an English speaker anyway, we don’t call Vienna “Wien”, for example.

    I’m not sure if it means anything.
    I don’t think I’ve ever had a Chicken Chennai for dinner.

    The Indians all use use old names, even Mumbai airport is still BOM on your ticket.
    That doesn't mean much, Ho Chin Min City is still SGN too.

    Nobody calls Harare "Salisbury" any more.
    I do. Rhodesia never dies.
    That’s a bit weird, even in jest

    It’s a matter of courtesy. If the government of somewhere changes its name then it’s polite to follow.

    Hence Beijing, Mumbai, Derry etc
    Stalingrad, Kaliningrad, Gdańsk, Szczecin. In many cases done simultaneously with expelling much of the existing population. India is different in that there seems to be a time lag between renaming and killing or expelling every Muslim.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nor do I want to be rich. That attracts attention and hangers-on. I want comfort and peace.

    So I’d say a low six-figure salary for a numbers of years

    And you think that wouldn’t make you rich?!!
    No.
    You'd be rich to me. I guess I'd be rich to the bloke huddled in the shop doorway this morning, waiting to get moved on once the town centre opens.
    We can split hairs but you and I both know that’s not rich.

    Bloomberg and Trump are rich. Branson is rich.

    A medical consultant is just well off.
    They are all rich to the average earner, just the former are super rich
    No. Wrong again.
    No, absolutely right and it is very arrogant to average earners and the poor and unemployed to suggest if you are on a 6 figure salary you are not rich
    No, absolutely wrong.

    I’m not interested in discussing this further. I know I’m right.
    You are wrong, even in the US if you earn a $100 000 a year 56% of US voters consider you are rich

    https://today.yougov.com/topics/economy/articles-reports/2019/01/14/how-much-money-do-you-need-earn-year-be-rich

    In the UK once you reach only £60 500 a year then 68% of voters think you are rich

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2017/06/02/how-much-money-do-you-need-earn-year-be-rich
    The whole survey is completely misconceived. Income is irrelevant; only accumulated assets matter. And even then your main property doesn't help unless you're somehow earning passive income on it.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gabs3 said:

    Why is no-one talking about the anti-Muslim pogroms in India right now? Police standing by while innocent victims are beaten. This could easily spiral into genocide.

    I’m afraid the honest answer is probably because the British media has little or no interest in India. I only found out about it a few minutes ago, after three days. It certainly sounds extremely grim.
    The anti Muslim Modi mobs have going on for months now.
    I don’t know why but anyway I meet from Bombay calls it Bombay, not Mumbai.

    I’m up for that because I much prefer calling it Bombay as an English speaker anyway, we don’t call Vienna “Wien”, for example.

    I’m not sure if it means anything.
    I don’t think I’ve ever had a Chicken Chennai for dinner.

    The Indians all use use old names, even Mumbai airport is still BOM on your ticket.
    Begs the question why they renamed all the places and ruined it then.

    Kolkata being perhaps the weirdest one.
    Wasn’t it Hindu Nationalists making a point?
  • Good morning

    Reports showing the Severn topping the flood defences in Bewdley are very worryimg and distressing for those involved. In the 1990's our local area suffered flooding from the sea and sky and it was only mitigated when millions were spent on breakwaters and groynes deflecting the tidal surges. My business was flooded three times in 24 hours and hundreds of homes were seriously damaged

    I was involved in attending many of these homes and monitoring the repairs and in many cases it took more than six months, and of course the homes either attracted very high insurance premiums or no insurance at all

    And this brings me round to Boris. His absence from the media is just negligent. He may consider himself to be a CEO and trusts his delegation, but this is a personal crisis for many home and business owners and his silence is unacceptable

    He does not need to be visiting the areas but he does need to make clear that compensation will be paid to those sustaining serious losses and real assistance to business owners. The misery of being flooded is an emotional event and offering people £500 is just crass

    Boris has the field to himself for now, but it does not excuse his perceived neglect and he is going to face a new labour leader and shadow cabinet shortly, and if he wants to retain his support he needs to become pro-actice and not keep disappearing behind the doors of no 10
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Foxy said:


    So, I was reading this in The Atlantic yesterday. I may not have understood it properly, but as far as I can tell what it is saying is that Covid-19 is set to become what is essentially a new strain of winter illnesss, alongside colds and flu. If that is the case, though, why has it engendered so much panic. What am I missing?

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/covid-vaccine/607000/

    Because current estimates suggest it could be 20 times more deadly than flu. Perhaps more, perhaps less. But no-one on earth really knows, that is part of the problem and part of the fear.

    But if we take our current best estimate it will virtually certainly overwhelm health care systems across the globe. The response will be a crisis in civil society, a break down in law and order, the destruction of whole swathes of the economy and a fundamental shift in the way that life currently exists.

    Apart from that, nothing. There are lots of other things which I don't want to think about at the moment.

    You want all that in perpetuity? Let's hope not.
    I wouldn't go quite that far. An economic hit is pretty nailed on, but sensible containment policies and contact tracing hopefully keep things at manageable levels. SARS and MERS both faded away. Covid 19 is more infectious, so will be harder, but I am an optimist. The next six months could be pretty nasty though.
    Have you heard of Coldzyme? It forms a protective barrier in the throat that deactivates common viruses including human coronavirus according to their company website.

    https://www.enzymatica.se/en/research-and-development/coldzyme-studies/

    Likely to be any use?

    Fairy dust

    Look for any randomised clinical trials. Bet you can’t find them
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,250
    What happened to the ladies?

    Or did I blink and miss something?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nor do I want to be rich. That attracts attention and hangers-on. I want comfort and peace.

    So I’d say a low six-figure salary for a numbers of years

    And you think that wouldn’t make you rich?!!
    No.
    You'd be rich to me. I guess I'd be rich to the bloke huddled in the shop doorway this morning, waiting to get moved on once the town centre opens.
    We can split hairs but you and I both know that’s not rich.

    Bloomberg and Trump are rich. Branson is rich.

    A medical consultant is just well off.
    They are all rich to the average earner, just the former are super rich
    No. Wrong again.
    No, absolutely right and it is very arrogant to average earners and the poor and unemployed to suggest if you are on a 6 figure salary you are not rich
    No, absolutely wrong.

    I’m not interested in discussing this further. I know I’m right.
    For once I agree with HYFUD
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,250
    HYUFD said:

    matt said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    A long-term effect of the virus could be that some manufacturing firms diversify away some of their critical just-in-time supply chains away from China.

    Unless they clamp down on trading live bats in weird animal markets this could happen again.

    China banned the wildlife trade on monday, so at least one good outcome. After this, I expect it to be enforced too.
    Isn’t that temporary though?
    I don't know. I would be surprised if they didn't make it permanent. China doesn't want a repeat.
    Like President Mitterrand eating ortolans as his last meal so a formal ban will make no real change. A nation which believes in snorting dried tiger cock on the basis it will make them particularly hard will have no difficulty in continuing to eat barbecued lemur. Particularly as Communist Party officials won’t stop.
    If the Chinese population falls below 1 billion that starts to hit their economy given their ageing population and former 1 child policy
    Since that represents a fall of just under 400 million people, yes that probably would "begin to hit their economy" !
  • malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nor do I want to be rich. That attracts attention and hangers-on. I want comfort and peace.

    So I’d say a low six-figure salary for a numbers of years

    And you think that wouldn’t make you rich?!!
    No.
    You'd be rich to me. I guess I'd be rich to the bloke huddled in the shop doorway this morning, waiting to get moved on once the town centre opens.
    We can split hairs but you and I both know that’s not rich.

    Bloomberg and Trump are rich. Branson is rich.

    A medical consultant is just well off.
    They are all rich to the average earner, just the former are super rich
    No. Wrong again.
    No, absolutely right and it is very arrogant to average earners and the poor and unemployed to suggest if you are on a 6 figure salary you are not rich
    No, absolutely wrong.

    I’m not interested in discussing this further. I know I’m right.
    For once I agree with HYFUD
    That's a keeper Malc
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,298

    ydoethur said:

    Nor do I want to be rich. That attracts attention and hangers-on. I want comfort and peace.

    So I’d say a low six-figure salary for a numbers of years

    And you think that wouldn’t make you rich?!!
    No.
    You'd be rich to me. I guess I'd be rich to the bloke huddled in the shop doorway this morning, waiting to get moved on once the town centre opens.
    We can split hairs but you and I both know that’s not rich.

    Bloomberg and Trump are rich. Branson is rich.

    A medical consultant is just well off.
    What does it take to be super-rich on your scale?
    I’ve already explained what rich is up thread. Enough that you don’t need to work.

    Assets of at least £5m+ and an annual income of £1m+. Ten times that for super rich.

    If you’re earning £120k but started with nothing and are paying a big mortgage and cost for your kids education you are well off, but not rich.
    Obviously you can have your own definition of rich if you like.
    But it's a fact that the vast majority of people who don't need to work have less than £5m in assets and an income much smaller than £1m a year.
  • Charles said:

    Foxy said:


    So, I was reading this in The Atlantic yesterday. I may not have understood it properly, but as far as I can tell what it is saying is that Covid-19 is set to become what is essentially a new strain of winter illnesss, alongside colds and flu. If that is the case, though, why has it engendered so much panic. What am I missing?

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/covid-vaccine/607000/

    Because current estimates suggest it could be 20 times more deadly than flu. Perhaps more, perhaps less. But no-one on earth really knows, that is part of the problem and part of the fear.

    But if we take our current best estimate it will virtually certainly overwhelm health care systems across the globe. The response will be a crisis in civil society, a break down in law and order, the destruction of whole swathes of the economy and a fundamental shift in the way that life currently exists.

    Apart from that, nothing. There are lots of other things which I don't want to think about at the moment.

    You want all that in perpetuity? Let's hope not.
    I wouldn't go quite that far. An economic hit is pretty nailed on, but sensible containment policies and contact tracing hopefully keep things at manageable levels. SARS and MERS both faded away. Covid 19 is more infectious, so will be harder, but I am an optimist. The next six months could be pretty nasty though.
    Have you heard of Coldzyme? It forms a protective barrier in the throat that deactivates common viruses including human coronavirus according to their company website.

    https://www.enzymatica.se/en/research-and-development/coldzyme-studies/

    Likely to be any use?

    Fairy dust

    Look for any randomised clinical trials. Bet you can’t find them
    They are not hard to find, but I am far from qualified to interpret them, hence my question. (They are obviously not Covid19 specific but they include human coronavirus).

    https://www.scirp.org/pdf/OJRD_2017101315222556.pdf
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    ydoethur said:


    It’s OK to be old as well. Indeed, most of us aspire to be old at some point in the future. Or rich. Most people want to be rich. Admittedly, some people get agitated when they’re not and start shooting rich people (hello, Lenin).

    Father Lenin, who was correct in all things, came from quite a wealthy family. He was certainly rich by the standards of the Russian Empire at the time.
    So just a sociopath, then.

    In other news, empirical evidence that rich drivers tend to be assholes:
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/drivers-of-expensive-cars-are-more-dangerous-to-pedestrians-m0nbmzk80
    Shares opened well down again , another £11K plus drop for me.
    Sometimes it’s just better to ignore the market
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nor do I want to be rich. That attracts attention and hangers-on. I want comfort and peace.

    So I’d say a low six-figure salary for a numbers of years

    And you think that wouldn’t make you rich?!!
    No.
    You'd be rich to me. I guess I'd be rich to the bloke huddled in the shop doorway this morning, waiting to get moved on once the town centre opens.
    We can split hairs but you and I both know that’s not rich.

    Bloomberg and Trump are rich. Branson is rich.

    A medical consultant is just well off.
    They are all rich to the average earner, just the former are super rich
    No. Wrong again.
    No, absolutely right and it is very arrogant to average earners and the poor and unemployed to suggest if you are on a 6 figure salary you are not rich
    No, absolutely wrong.

    I’m not interested in discussing this further. I know I’m right.
    You must have this post on cut and paste.
  • rkrkrk said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nor do I want to be rich. That attracts attention and hangers-on. I want comfort and peace.

    So I’d say a low six-figure salary for a numbers of years

    And you think that wouldn’t make you rich?!!
    No.
    You'd be rich to me. I guess I'd be rich to the bloke huddled in the shop doorway this morning, waiting to get moved on once the town centre opens.
    We can split hairs but you and I both know that’s not rich.

    Bloomberg and Trump are rich. Branson is rich.

    A medical consultant is just well off.
    What does it take to be super-rich on your scale?
    I’ve already explained what rich is up thread. Enough that you don’t need to work.

    Assets of at least £5m+ and an annual income of £1m+. Ten times that for super rich.

    If you’re earning £120k but started with nothing and are paying a big mortgage and cost for your kids education you are well off, but not rich.
    Obviously you can have your own definition of rich if you like.
    But it's a fact that the vast majority of people who don't need to work have less than £5m in assets and an income much smaller than £1m a year.
    Its simply insulting to suggest you need an annual income of £1m a year to not work.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    ydoethur said:


    It’s OK to be old as well. Indeed, most of us aspire to be old at some point in the future. Or rich. Most people want to be rich. Admittedly, some people get agitated when they’re not and start shooting rich people (hello, Lenin).

    Father Lenin, who was correct in all things, came from quite a wealthy family. He was certainly rich by the standards of the Russian Empire at the time.
    So just a sociopath, then.

    In other news, empirical evidence that rich drivers tend to be assholes:
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/drivers-of-expensive-cars-are-more-dangerous-to-pedestrians-m0nbmzk80
    Shares opened well down again , another £11K plus drop for me.
    I pared back my sell positions last night and am still up approaching £4k. Topping up this morning, also selling GBP/CHF.

    Who was it Monday lunchtime who suggested it might be too late to sell?
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gabs3 said:

    Why is no-one talking about the anti-Muslim pogroms in India right now? Police standing by while innocent victims are beaten. This could easily spiral into genocide.

    I’m afraid the honest answer is probably because the British media has little or no interest in India. I only found out about it a few minutes ago, after three days. It certainly sounds extremely grim.
    The anti Muslim Modi mobs have going on for months now.
    I don’t know why but anyway I meet from Bombay calls it Bombay, not Mumbai.

    I’m up for that because I much prefer calling it Bombay as an English speaker anyway, we don’t call Vienna “Wien”, for example.

    I’m not sure if it means anything.
    I don’t think I’ve ever had a Chicken Chennai for dinner.

    The Indians all use use old names, even Mumbai airport is still BOM on your ticket.
    Begs the question why they renamed all the places and ruined it then.

    Kolkata being perhaps the weirdest one.
    That's just how it's spelled and correctly transliterated in Bengali as is the case with Mumbai in Marathi.

    Most of the city name changes are to correct the spelling invented by half witted Englishmen or to reflect the dominant language of the state in which they are located.

    The Indians have shrugged the yoke of imperialism that enslaved and impoverished them for so long. You're going to have to get over it.
    Message me again when the Indians who actually live there stop referring to it as Bombay.
  • Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gabs3 said:

    Why is no-one talking about the anti-Muslim pogroms in India right now? Police standing by while innocent victims are beaten. This could easily spiral into genocide.

    I’m afraid the honest answer is probably because the British media has little or no interest in India. I only found out about it a few minutes ago, after three days. It certainly sounds extremely grim.
    The anti Muslim Modi mobs have going on for months now.
    I don’t know why but anyway I meet from Bombay calls it Bombay, not Mumbai.

    I’m up for that because I much prefer calling it Bombay as an English speaker anyway, we don’t call Vienna “Wien”, for example.

    I’m not sure if it means anything.
    I don’t think I’ve ever had a Chicken Chennai for dinner.

    The Indians all use use old names, even Mumbai airport is still BOM on your ticket.
    Begs the question why they renamed all the places and ruined it then.

    Kolkata being perhaps the weirdest one.
    Wasn’t it Hindu Nationalists making a point?
    Yes, it might well have been.

    We don’t have to respect sectarian renamings.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,298

    rkrkrk said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nor do I want to be rich. That attracts attention and hangers-on. I want comfort and peace.

    So I’d say a low six-figure salary for a numbers of years

    And you think that wouldn’t make you rich?!!
    No.
    You'd be rich to me. I guess I'd be rich to the bloke huddled in the shop doorway this morning, waiting to get moved on once the town centre opens.
    We can split hairs but you and I both know that’s not rich.

    Bloomberg and Trump are rich. Branson is rich.

    A medical consultant is just well off.
    What does it take to be super-rich on your scale?
    I’ve already explained what rich is up thread. Enough that you don’t need to work.

    Assets of at least £5m+ and an annual income of £1m+. Ten times that for super rich.

    If you’re earning £120k but started with nothing and are paying a big mortgage and cost for your kids education you are well off, but not rich.
    Obviously you can have your own definition of rich if you like.
    But it's a fact that the vast majority of people who don't need to work have less than £5m in assets and an income much smaller than £1m a year.
    Its simply insulting to suggest you need an annual income of £1m a year to not work.
    Retirement must look a long way away if that's the end goal.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:


    So, I was reading this in The Atlantic yesterday. I may not have understood it properly, but as far as I can tell what it is saying is that Covid-19 is set to become what is essentially a new strain of winter illnesss, alongside colds and flu. If that is the case, though, why has it engendered so much panic. What am I missing?

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/covid-vaccine/607000/

    Because current estimates suggest it could be 20 times more deadly than flu. Perhaps more, perhaps less. But no-one on earth really knows, that is part of the problem and part of the fear.

    But if we take our current best estimate it will virtually certainly overwhelm health care systems across the globe. The response will be a crisis in civil society, a break down in law and order, the destruction of whole swathes of the economy and a fundamental shift in the way that life currently exists.

    Apart from that, nothing. There are lots of other things which I don't want to think about at the moment.

    You want all that in perpetuity? Let's hope not.
    I wouldn't go quite that far. An economic hit is pretty nailed on, but sensible containment policies and contact tracing hopefully keep things at manageable levels. SARS and MERS both faded away. Covid 19 is more infectious, so will be harder, but I am an optimist. The next six months could be pretty nasty though.
    Have you heard of Coldzyme? It forms a protective barrier in the throat that deactivates common viruses including human coronavirus according to their company website.

    https://www.enzymatica.se/en/research-and-development/coldzyme-studies/

    Likely to be any use?

    Fairy dust

    Look for any randomised clinical trials. Bet you can’t find them
    They are not hard to find, but I am far from qualified to interpret them, hence my question. (They are obviously not Covid19 specific but they include human coronavirus).

    https://www.scirp.org/pdf/OJRD_2017101315222556.pdf
    Meh
    N=46, healthy volunteers
    Rhinovirus 16 present in 35/46
    Viral load (AUC) reduces but only p=0.023 so some indicative value but not compelling
    Benefit was to reduce duration from 6.5 to 3.0 days with p=0.014

    @Foxy will have a view but I say Meh. You’ll do as well with seawater
  • Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gabs3 said:

    Why is no-one talking about the anti-Muslim pogroms in India right now? Police standing by while innocent victims are beaten. This could easily spiral into genocide.

    I’m afraid the honest answer is probably because the British media has little or no interest in India. I only found out about it a few minutes ago, after three days. It certainly sounds extremely grim.
    The anti Muslim Modi mobs have going on for months now.
    I don’t know why but anyway I meet from Bombay calls it Bombay, not Mumbai.

    I’m up for that because I much prefer calling it Bombay as an English speaker anyway, we don’t call Vienna “Wien”, for example.

    I’m not sure if it means anything.
    I don’t think I’ve ever had a Chicken Chennai for dinner.

    The Indians all use use old names, even Mumbai airport is still BOM on your ticket.
    That doesn't mean much, Ho Chin Min City is still SGN too.

    Nobody calls Harare "Salisbury" any more.
    I do. Rhodesia never dies.
    That’s a bit weird, even in jest

    It’s a matter of courtesy. If the government of somewhere changes its name then it’s polite to follow.

    Hence Beijing, Mumbai, Derry etc
    I don’t think the Government (the UK) have renamed Londonderry “Derry”.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gabs3 said:

    Why is no-one talking about the anti-Muslim pogroms in India right now? Police standing by while innocent victims are beaten. This could easily spiral into genocide.

    I’m afraid the honest answer is probably because the British media has little or no interest in India. I only found out about it a few minutes ago, after three days. It certainly sounds extremely grim.
    The anti Muslim Modi mobs have going on for months now.
    I don’t know why but anyway I meet from Bombay calls it Bombay, not Mumbai.

    I’m up for that because I much prefer calling it Bombay as an English speaker anyway, we don’t call Vienna “Wien”, for example.

    I’m not sure if it means anything.
    I don’t think I’ve ever had a Chicken Chennai for dinner.

    The Indians all use use old names, even Mumbai airport is still BOM on your ticket.
    Begs the question why they renamed all the places and ruined it then.

    Kolkata being perhaps the weirdest one.
    Wasn’t it Hindu Nationalists making a point?
    Yes, it might well have been.

    We don’t have to respect sectarian renamings.
    It’s discourteous and anachronistic.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,605
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:


    So, I was reading this in The Atlantic yesterday. I may not have understood it properly, but as far as I can tell what it is saying is that Covid-19 is set to become what is essentially a new strain of winter illnesss, alongside colds and flu. If that is the case, though, why has it engendered so much panic. What am I missing?

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/covid-vaccine/607000/

    Because current estimates suggest it could be 20 times more deadly than flu. Perhaps more, perhaps less. But no-one on earth really knows, that is part of the problem and part of the fear.

    But if we take our current best estimate it will virtually certainly overwhelm health care systems across the globe. The response will be a crisis in civil society, a break down in law and order, the destruction of whole swathes of the economy and a fundamental shift in the way that life currently exists.

    Apart from that, nothing. There are lots of other things which I don't want to think about at the moment.

    You want all that in perpetuity? Let's hope not.
    I wouldn't go quite that far. An economic hit is pretty nailed on, but sensible containment policies and contact tracing hopefully keep things at manageable levels. SARS and MERS both faded away. Covid 19 is more infectious, so will be harder, but I am an optimist. The next six months could be pretty nasty though.
    Have you heard of Coldzyme? It forms a protective barrier in the throat that deactivates common viruses including human coronavirus according to their company website.

    https://www.enzymatica.se/en/research-and-development/coldzyme-studies/

    Likely to be any use?

    Not something that I am familiar with, but I believe that transmission of Covid 19 is mostly from nasal aerosol.
    Could "First Defence" help? I've been squirting it up my nose before plane journeys for years.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gabs3 said:

    Why is no-one talking about the anti-Muslim pogroms in India right now? Police standing by while innocent victims are beaten. This could easily spiral into genocide.

    I’m afraid the honest answer is probably because the British media has little or no interest in India. I only found out about it a few minutes ago, after three days. It certainly sounds extremely grim.
    The anti Muslim Modi mobs have going on for months now.
    I don’t know why but anyway I meet from Bombay calls it Bombay, not Mumbai.

    I’m up for that because I much prefer calling it Bombay as an English speaker anyway, we don’t call Vienna “Wien”, for example.

    I’m not sure if it means anything.
    I don’t think I’ve ever had a Chicken Chennai for dinner.

    The Indians all use use old names, even Mumbai airport is still BOM on your ticket.
    That doesn't mean much, Ho Chin Min City is still SGN too.

    Nobody calls Harare "Salisbury" any more.
    I do. Rhodesia never dies.
    That’s a bit weird, even in jest

    It’s a matter of courtesy. If the government of somewhere changes its name then it’s polite to follow.

    Hence Beijing, Mumbai, Derry etc
    I don’t think the Government (the UK) have renamed Londonderry “Derry”.
    The local government did (I think the U.K. call it Derry/Londonderry)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    edited February 2020
    Looks like markets are approaching panic point this morning.

    £500 up in five minutes
  • rkrkrk said:

    rkrkrk said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nor do I want to be rich. That attracts attention and hangers-on. I want comfort and peace.

    So I’d say a low six-figure salary for a numbers of years

    And you think that wouldn’t make you rich?!!
    No.
    You'd be rich to me. I guess I'd be rich to the bloke huddled in the shop doorway this morning, waiting to get moved on once the town centre opens.
    We can split hairs but you and I both know that’s not rich.

    Bloomberg and Trump are rich. Branson is rich.

    A medical consultant is just well off.
    What does it take to be super-rich on your scale?
    I’ve already explained what rich is up thread. Enough that you don’t need to work.

    Assets of at least £5m+ and an annual income of £1m+. Ten times that for super rich.

    If you’re earning £120k but started with nothing and are paying a big mortgage and cost for your kids education you are well off, but not rich.
    Obviously you can have your own definition of rich if you like.
    But it's a fact that the vast majority of people who don't need to work have less than £5m in assets and an income much smaller than £1m a year.
    Its simply insulting to suggest you need an annual income of £1m a year to not work.
    Retirement must look a long way away if that's the end goal.
    A fair proportion of the nation earn £1m across their lifetime!
  • IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nor do I want to be rich. That attracts attention and hangers-on. I want comfort and peace.

    So I’d say a low six-figure salary for a numbers of years

    And you think that wouldn’t make you rich?!!
    No.
    You'd be rich to me. I guess I'd be rich to the bloke huddled in the shop doorway this morning, waiting to get moved on once the town centre opens.
    We can split hairs but you and I both know that’s not rich.

    Bloomberg and Trump are rich. Branson is rich.

    A medical consultant is just well off.
    They are all rich to the average earner, just the former are super rich
    No. Wrong again.
    No, absolutely right and it is very arrogant to average earners and the poor and unemployed to suggest if you are on a 6 figure salary you are not rich
    No, absolutely wrong.

    I’m not interested in discussing this further. I know I’m right.
    You must have this post on cut and paste.
    No, it’s a commonly accepted definition and threshold of rich. Look it up. Google is your friend. We’ve even posted it on here and discussed before, last time several weeks ago.

    It’s sufficient wealth such that you can ignore the jobs market and vagaries of the economic cycle. You need sufficient assets that a 3-4% yield can provide you with a very good income so you can live a rich lifestyle.

    I’m not interested in debating *perceptions* of being rich, just because of the neediness of some on here to score a victory over a minor debating point.
  • rkrkrk said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nor do I want to be rich. That attracts attention and hangers-on. I want comfort and peace.

    So I’d say a low six-figure salary for a numbers of years

    And you think that wouldn’t make you rich?!!
    No.
    You'd be rich to me. I guess I'd be rich to the bloke huddled in the shop doorway this morning, waiting to get moved on once the town centre opens.
    We can split hairs but you and I both know that’s not rich.

    Bloomberg and Trump are rich. Branson is rich.

    A medical consultant is just well off.
    What does it take to be super-rich on your scale?
    I’ve already explained what rich is up thread. Enough that you don’t need to work.

    Assets of at least £5m+ and an annual income of £1m+. Ten times that for super rich.

    If you’re earning £120k but started with nothing and are paying a big mortgage and cost for your kids education you are well off, but not rich.
    Obviously you can have your own definition of rich if you like.
    But it's a fact that the vast majority of people who don't need to work have less than £5m in assets and an income much smaller than £1m a year.
    It’s not my own definition. It’s commonly accepted.
  • rkrkrk said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nor do I want to be rich. That attracts attention and hangers-on. I want comfort and peace.

    So I’d say a low six-figure salary for a numbers of years

    And you think that wouldn’t make you rich?!!
    No.
    You'd be rich to me. I guess I'd be rich to the bloke huddled in the shop doorway this morning, waiting to get moved on once the town centre opens.
    We can split hairs but you and I both know that’s not rich.

    Bloomberg and Trump are rich. Branson is rich.

    A medical consultant is just well off.
    What does it take to be super-rich on your scale?
    I’ve already explained what rich is up thread. Enough that you don’t need to work.

    Assets of at least £5m+ and an annual income of £1m+. Ten times that for super rich.

    If you’re earning £120k but started with nothing and are paying a big mortgage and cost for your kids education you are well off, but not rich.
    Obviously you can have your own definition of rich if you like.
    But it's a fact that the vast majority of people who don't need to work have less than £5m in assets and an income much smaller than £1m a year.
    Its simply insulting to suggest you need an annual income of £1m a year to not work.
    Facts don’t care about your opinions.

    This debate reeks of emotion and jealously, so it’s not objective.
  • Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gabs3 said:

    Why is no-one talking about the anti-Muslim pogroms in India right now? Police standing by while innocent victims are beaten. This could easily spiral into genocide.

    I’m afraid the honest answer is probably because the British media has little or no interest in India. I only found out about it a few minutes ago, after three days. It certainly sounds extremely grim.
    The anti Muslim Modi mobs have going on for months now.
    I don’t know why but anyway I meet from Bombay calls it Bombay, not Mumbai.

    I’m up for that because I much prefer calling it Bombay as an English speaker anyway, we don’t call Vienna “Wien”, for example.

    I’m not sure if it means anything.
    I don’t think I’ve ever had a Chicken Chennai for dinner.

    The Indians all use use old names, even Mumbai airport is still BOM on your ticket.
    That doesn't mean much, Ho Chin Min City is still SGN too.

    Nobody calls Harare "Salisbury" any more.
    I do. Rhodesia never dies.
    That’s a bit weird, even in jest

    It’s a matter of courtesy. If the government of somewhere changes its name then it’s polite to follow.

    Hence Beijing, Mumbai, Derry etc
    I don’t think the Government (the UK) have renamed Londonderry “Derry”.
    The local government did (I think the U.K. call it Derry/Londonderry)
    Which is dominated by one part of the community in an area where there’s historically been sectarian violence over it.

    So I’d stay well clear.
  • Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gabs3 said:

    Why is no-one talking about the anti-Muslim pogroms in India right now? Police standing by while innocent victims are beaten. This could easily spiral into genocide.

    I’m afraid the honest answer is probably because the British media has little or no interest in India. I only found out about it a few minutes ago, after three days. It certainly sounds extremely grim.
    The anti Muslim Modi mobs have going on for months now.
    I don’t know why but anyway I meet from Bombay calls it Bombay, not Mumbai.

    I’m up for that because I much prefer calling it Bombay as an English speaker anyway, we don’t call Vienna “Wien”, for example.

    I’m not sure if it means anything.
    I don’t think I’ve ever had a Chicken Chennai for dinner.

    The Indians all use use old names, even Mumbai airport is still BOM on your ticket.
    Begs the question why they renamed all the places and ruined it then.

    Kolkata being perhaps the weirdest one.
    Wasn’t it Hindu Nationalists making a point?
    Yes, it might well have been.

    We don’t have to respect sectarian renamings.
    It’s discourteous and anachronistic.
    That depends on the circumstances.

    We still call (including the BBC) Myanmar Burma and many Indians find Mumbai offensive.
  • Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    ydoethur said:


    It’s OK to be old as well. Indeed, most of us aspire to be old at some point in the future. Or rich. Most people want to be rich. Admittedly, some people get agitated when they’re not and start shooting rich people (hello, Lenin).

    Father Lenin, who was correct in all things, came from quite a wealthy family. He was certainly rich by the standards of the Russian Empire at the time.
    So just a sociopath, then.

    In other news, empirical evidence that rich drivers tend to be assholes:
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/drivers-of-expensive-cars-are-more-dangerous-to-pedestrians-m0nbmzk80
    Shares opened well down again , another £11K plus drop for me.
    Sometimes it’s just better to ignore the market
    That’s what I am doing.
  • IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nor do I want to be rich. That attracts attention and hangers-on. I want comfort and peace.

    So I’d say a low six-figure salary for a numbers of years

    And you think that wouldn’t make you rich?!!
    No.
    You'd be rich to me. I guess I'd be rich to the bloke huddled in the shop doorway this morning, waiting to get moved on once the town centre opens.
    We can split hairs but you and I both know that’s not rich.

    Bloomberg and Trump are rich. Branson is rich.

    A medical consultant is just well off.
    They are all rich to the average earner, just the former are super rich
    No. Wrong again.
    No, absolutely right and it is very arrogant to average earners and the poor and unemployed to suggest if you are on a 6 figure salary you are not rich
    No, absolutely wrong.

    I’m not interested in discussing this further. I know I’m right.
    You must have this post on cut and paste.
    No, it’s a commonly accepted definition and threshold of rich. Look it up. Google is your friend. We’ve even posted it on here and discussed before, last time several weeks ago.

    It’s sufficient wealth such that you can ignore the jobs market and vagaries of the economic cycle. You need sufficient assets that a 3-4% yield can provide you with a very good income so you can live a rich lifestyle.

    I’m not interested in debating *perceptions* of being rich, just because of the neediness of some on here to score a victory over a minor debating point.
    If 'debating' consists of saying

    "No"
    "No. Wrong again"
    "No, absolutely wrong"
    "No..."

    then it seems that you are interested in 'debating' it.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nor do I want to be rich. That attracts attention and hangers-on. I want comfort and peace.

    So I’d say a low six-figure salary for a numbers of years

    And you think that wouldn’t make you rich?!!
    No.
    You'd be rich to me. I guess I'd be rich to the bloke huddled in the shop doorway this morning, waiting to get moved on once the town centre opens.
    We can split hairs but you and I both know that’s not rich.

    Bloomberg and Trump are rich. Branson is rich.

    A medical consultant is just well off.
    They are all rich to the average earner, just the former are super rich
    No. Wrong again.
    No, absolutely right and it is very arrogant to average earners and the poor and unemployed to suggest if you are on a 6 figure salary you are not rich
    No, absolutely wrong.

    I’m not interested in discussing this further. I know I’m right.
    You must have this post on cut and paste.
    No, it’s a commonly accepted definition and threshold of rich. Look it up. Google is your friend. We’ve even posted it on here and discussed before, last time several weeks ago.

    It’s sufficient wealth such that you can ignore the jobs market and vagaries of the economic cycle. You need sufficient assets that a 3-4% yield can provide you with a very good income so you can live a rich lifestyle.

    I’m not interested in debating *perceptions* of being rich, just because of the neediness of some on here to score a victory over a minor debating point.
    I didn't trouble myself to take a position on the substance. I just noticed, once again, that your debating style reduces to "I am right, go away".
  • IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nor do I want to be rich. That attracts attention and hangers-on. I want comfort and peace.

    So I’d say a low six-figure salary for a numbers of years

    And you think that wouldn’t make you rich?!!
    No.
    You'd be rich to me. I guess I'd be rich to the bloke huddled in the shop doorway this morning, waiting to get moved on once the town centre opens.
    We can split hairs but you and I both know that’s not rich.

    Bloomberg and Trump are rich. Branson is rich.

    A medical consultant is just well off.
    They are all rich to the average earner, just the former are super rich
    No. Wrong again.
    No, absolutely right and it is very arrogant to average earners and the poor and unemployed to suggest if you are on a 6 figure salary you are not rich
    No, absolutely wrong.

    I’m not interested in discussing this further. I know I’m right.
    You must have this post on cut and paste.
    No, it’s a commonly accepted definition and threshold of rich. Look it up. Google is your friend. We’ve even posted it on here and discussed before, last time several weeks ago.

    It’s sufficient wealth such that you can ignore the jobs market and vagaries of the economic cycle. You need sufficient assets that a 3-4% yield can provide you with a very good income so you can live a rich lifestyle.

    I’m not interested in debating *perceptions* of being rich, just because of the neediness of some on here to score a victory over a minor debating point.
    The only commonly accepted definition is 50-200% more than the person using the word rich has.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gabs3 said:

    Why is no-one talking about the anti-Muslim pogroms in India right now? Police standing by while innocent victims are beaten. This could easily spiral into genocide.

    I’m afraid the honest answer is probably because the British media has little or no interest in India. I only found out about it a few minutes ago, after three days. It certainly sounds extremely grim.
    The anti Muslim Modi mobs have going on for months now.
    I don’t know why but anyway I meet from Bombay calls it Bombay, not Mumbai.

    I’m up for that because I much prefer calling it Bombay as an English speaker anyway, we don’t call Vienna “Wien”, for example.

    I’m not sure if it means anything.
    I don’t think I’ve ever had a Chicken Chennai for dinner.

    The Indians all use use old names, even Mumbai airport is still BOM on your ticket.
    Begs the question why they renamed all the places and ruined it then.

    Kolkata being perhaps the weirdest one.
    That's just how it's spelled and correctly transliterated in Bengali as is the case with Mumbai in Marathi.

    Most of the city name changes are to correct the spelling invented by half witted Englishmen or to reflect the dominant language of the state in which they are located.

    The Indians have shrugged the yoke of imperialism that enslaved and impoverished them for so long. You're going to have to get over it.
    Message me again when the Indians who actually live there stop referring to it as Bombay.

    The wealthy and well-educated Indians that are the extreme minority do use Bombay in my experience. I have no idea what the majority of Indians who live there call it.

  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gabs3 said:

    Why is no-one talking about the anti-Muslim pogroms in India right now? Police standing by while innocent victims are beaten. This could easily spiral into genocide.

    I’m afraid the honest answer is probably because the British media has little or no interest in India. I only found out about it a few minutes ago, after three days. It certainly sounds extremely grim.
    The anti Muslim Modi mobs have going on for months now.
    I don’t know why but anyway I meet from Bombay calls it Bombay, not Mumbai.

    I’m up for that because I much prefer calling it Bombay as an English speaker anyway, we don’t call Vienna “Wien”, for example.

    I’m not sure if it means anything.
    I don’t think I’ve ever had a Chicken Chennai for dinner.

    The Indians all use use old names, even Mumbai airport is still BOM on your ticket.
    That doesn't mean much, Ho Chin Min City is still SGN too.

    Nobody calls Harare "Salisbury" any more.
    The iata codes were assigned a long time ago.
  • IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nor do I want to be rich. That attracts attention and hangers-on. I want comfort and peace.

    So I’d say a low six-figure salary for a numbers of years

    And you think that wouldn’t make you rich?!!
    No.
    You'd be rich to me. I guess I'd be rich to the bloke huddled in the shop doorway this morning, waiting to get moved on once the town centre opens.
    We can split hairs but you and I both know that’s not rich.

    Bloomberg and Trump are rich. Branson is rich.

    A medical consultant is just well off.
    They are all rich to the average earner, just the former are super rich
    No. Wrong again.
    No, absolutely right and it is very arrogant to average earners and the poor and unemployed to suggest if you are on a 6 figure salary you are not rich
    No, absolutely wrong.

    I’m not interested in discussing this further. I know I’m right.
    You must have this post on cut and paste.
    No, it’s a commonly accepted definition and threshold of rich. Look it up. Google is your friend. We’ve even posted it on here and discussed before, last time several weeks ago.

    It’s sufficient wealth such that you can ignore the jobs market and vagaries of the economic cycle. You need sufficient assets that a 3-4% yield can provide you with a very good income so you can live a rich lifestyle.

    I’m not interested in debating *perceptions* of being rich, just because of the neediness of some on here to score a victory over a minor debating point.
    If 'debating' consists of saying

    "No"
    "No. Wrong again"
    "No, absolutely wrong"
    "No..."

    then it seems that you are interested in 'debating' it.
    No, I’m not debating it. I’m clarifying the argument.

    HYFUD has a pathological need to be right and it’s pointless arguing with him once he’s set out his stall because, rather than concede, he’ll simply move the goalposts when he senses he’s on weak ground.

    It’s a waste of my time.

    He’s arguing over perceptions of being rich. I’m arguing what actually defines being rich.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gabs3 said:

    Why is no-one talking about the anti-Muslim pogroms in India right now? Police standing by while innocent victims are beaten. This could easily spiral into genocide.

    I’m afraid the honest answer is probably because the British media has little or no interest in India. I only found out about it a few minutes ago, after three days. It certainly sounds extremely grim.
    The anti Muslim Modi mobs have going on for months now.
    I don’t know why but anyway I meet from Bombay calls it Bombay, not Mumbai.

    I’m up for that because I much prefer calling it Bombay as an English speaker anyway, we don’t call Vienna “Wien”, for example.

    I’m not sure if it means anything.
    I don’t think I’ve ever had a Chicken Chennai for dinner.

    The Indians all use use old names, even Mumbai airport is still BOM on your ticket.
    That doesn't mean much, Ho Chin Min City is still SGN too.

    Nobody calls Harare "Salisbury" any more.
    I do. Rhodesia never dies.
    That’s a bit weird, even in jest

    It’s a matter of courtesy. If the government of somewhere changes its name then it’s polite to follow.

    Hence Beijing, Mumbai, Derry etc
    I don’t think the Government (the UK) have renamed Londonderry “Derry”.
    The local government did (I think the U.K. call it Derry/Londonderry)
    Which is dominated by one part of the community in an area where there’s historically been sectarian violence over it.

    So I’d stay well clear.
    Hence Derry/Londonderry

    To call it one is to choose sides.

    The BBC uses Derry FWIW
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677



    Message me again when the Indians who actually live there stop referring to it as Bombay.

    My wife (and her family who live there) call it Mumbai. I don't think I've ever met an Indian who refers to the city as Bombay.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    In my opinion, defining "rich" is the obverse of defining "poor" in this sense: poor is best thought of in terms of absolute income, whereas rich is best thought of in terms of relative wealth.
  • IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nor do I want to be rich. That attracts attention and hangers-on. I want comfort and peace.

    So I’d say a low six-figure salary for a numbers of years

    And you think that wouldn’t make you rich?!!
    No.
    You'd be rich to me. I guess I'd be rich to the bloke huddled in the shop doorway this morning, waiting to get moved on once the town centre opens.
    We can split hairs but you and I both know that’s not rich.

    Bloomberg and Trump are rich. Branson is rich.

    A medical consultant is just well off.
    They are all rich to the average earner, just the former are super rich
    No. Wrong again.
    No, absolutely right and it is very arrogant to average earners and the poor and unemployed to suggest if you are on a 6 figure salary you are not rich
    No, absolutely wrong.

    I’m not interested in discussing this further. I know I’m right.
    You must have this post on cut and paste.
    No, it’s a commonly accepted definition and threshold of rich. Look it up. Google is your friend. We’ve even posted it on here and discussed before, last time several weeks ago.

    It’s sufficient wealth such that you can ignore the jobs market and vagaries of the economic cycle. You need sufficient assets that a 3-4% yield can provide you with a very good income so you can live a rich lifestyle.

    I’m not interested in debating *perceptions* of being rich, just because of the neediness of some on here to score a victory over a minor debating point.
    I didn't trouble myself to take a position on the substance. I just noticed, once again, that your debating style reduces to "I am right, go away".
    Nope, that isn’t my style.

    I just have no interest in pointless debates with needy pedants.

    You also being one of them at times.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gabs3 said:

    Why is no-one talking about the anti-Muslim pogroms in India right now? Police standing by while innocent victims are beaten. This could easily spiral into genocide.

    I’m afraid the honest answer is probably because the British media has little or no interest in India. I only found out about it a few minutes ago, after three days. It certainly sounds extremely grim.
    The anti Muslim Modi mobs have going on for months now.
    I don’t know why but anyway I meet from Bombay calls it Bombay, not Mumbai.

    I’m up for that because I much prefer calling it Bombay as an English speaker anyway, we don’t call Vienna “Wien”, for example.

    I’m not sure if it means anything.
    I don’t think I’ve ever had a Chicken Chennai for dinner.

    The Indians all use use old names, even Mumbai airport is still BOM on your ticket.
    Begs the question why they renamed all the places and ruined it then.

    Kolkata being perhaps the weirdest one.
    Wasn’t it Hindu Nationalists making a point?
    Yes, it might well have been.

    We don’t have to respect sectarian renamings.
    It’s discourteous and anachronistic.
    That depends on the circumstances.

    We still call (including the BBC) Myanmar Burma and many Indians find Mumbai offensive.
    Are you sure the bbc still uses Burma?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12990563

    On Mumbai that is its name.
  • Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gabs3 said:

    Why is no-one talking about the anti-Muslim pogroms in India right now? Police standing by while innocent victims are beaten. This could easily spiral into genocide.

    I’m afraid the honest answer is probably because the British media has little or no interest in India. I only found out about it a few minutes ago, after three days. It certainly sounds extremely grim.
    The anti Muslim Modi mobs have going on for months now.
    I don’t know why but anyway I meet from Bombay calls it Bombay, not Mumbai.

    I’m up for that because I much prefer calling it Bombay as an English speaker anyway, we don’t call Vienna “Wien”, for example.

    I’m not sure if it means anything.
    I don’t think I’ve ever had a Chicken Chennai for dinner.

    The Indians all use use old names, even Mumbai airport is still BOM on your ticket.
    That doesn't mean much, Ho Chin Min City is still SGN too.

    Nobody calls Harare "Salisbury" any more.
    I do. Rhodesia never dies.
    That’s a bit weird, even in jest

    It’s a matter of courtesy. If the government of somewhere changes its name then it’s polite to follow.

    Hence Beijing, Mumbai, Derry etc
    I don’t think the Government (the UK) have renamed Londonderry “Derry”.
    The local government did (I think the U.K. call it Derry/Londonderry)
    Which is dominated by one part of the community in an area where there’s historically been sectarian violence over it.

    So I’d stay well clear.
    Hence Derry/Londonderry

    To call it one is to choose sides.

    The BBC uses Derry FWIW
    I’ve heard the BBC use both terms, and it’s Londonderry on the weather.

    I agree on the stroke classification.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited February 2020
    HYUFD said:
    Interesting, that must be one of only three or four Democrat state polls Sanders is behind in at the moment. He's ahead in about 47.

    The second poll linked to below is also very interesting - if enough voters start to believe Sanders is actually better placed than the others to beat Trump, not only will it accelerate his path to the nomination, but it will potentially bring him more previous non-voters and independents.
  • Dura_Ace said:



    Message me again when the Indians who actually live there stop referring to it as Bombay.

    My wife (and her family who live there) call it Mumbai. I don't think I've ever met an Indian who refers to the city as Bombay.
    Then you haven’t met many Indians.
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nor do I want to be rich. That attracts attention and hangers-on. I want comfort and peace.

    So I’d say a low six-figure salary for a numbers of years

    And you think that wouldn’t make you rich?!!
    No.
    You'd be rich to me. I guess I'd be rich to the bloke huddled in the shop doorway this morning, waiting to get moved on once the town centre opens.
    We can split hairs but you and I both know that’s not rich.

    Bloomberg and Trump are rich. Branson is rich.

    A medical consultant is just well off.
    They are all rich to the average earner, just the former are super rich
    No. Wrong again.
    No, absolutely right and it is very arrogant to average earners and the poor and unemployed to suggest if you are on a 6 figure salary you are not rich
    No, absolutely wrong.

    I’m not interested in discussing this further. I know I’m right.
    You must have this post on cut and paste.
    No, it’s a commonly accepted definition and threshold of rich. Look it up. Google is your friend. We’ve even posted it on here and discussed before, last time several weeks ago.

    It’s sufficient wealth such that you can ignore the jobs market and vagaries of the economic cycle. You need sufficient assets that a 3-4% yield can provide you with a very good income so you can live a rich lifestyle.

    I’m not interested in debating *perceptions* of being rich, just because of the neediness of some on here to score a victory over a minor debating point.
    If 'debating' consists of saying

    "No"
    "No. Wrong again"
    "No, absolutely wrong"
    "No..."

    then it seems that you are interested in 'debating' it.
    No, I’m not debating it. I’m clarifying the argument.

    HYFUD has a pathological need to be right and it’s pointless arguing with him once he’s set out his stall because, rather than concede, he’ll simply move the goalposts when he senses he’s on weak ground.

    It’s a waste of my time.

    He’s arguing over perceptions of being rich. I’m arguing what actually defines being rich.
    Why not cite your well established definition of being rich?

    Given it is inherently subjective I am sceptical there is a consensus on this but let's see what you are referring to.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nor do I want to be rich. That attracts attention and hangers-on. I want comfort and peace.

    So I’d say a low six-figure salary for a numbers of years

    And you think that wouldn’t make you rich?!!
    No.
    You'd be rich to me. I guess I'd be rich to the bloke huddled in the shop doorway this morning, waiting to get moved on once the town centre opens.
    We can split hairs but you and I both know that’s not rich.

    Bloomberg and Trump are rich. Branson is rich.

    A medical consultant is just well off.
    They are all rich to the average earner, just the former are super rich
    No. Wrong again.
    No, absolutely right and it is very arrogant to average earners and the poor and unemployed to suggest if you are on a 6 figure salary you are not rich
    No, absolutely wrong.

    I’m not interested in discussing this further. I know I’m right.
    You must have this post on cut and paste.
    No, it’s a commonly accepted definition and threshold of rich. Look it up. Google is your friend. We’ve even posted it on here and discussed before, last time several weeks ago.

    It’s sufficient wealth such that you can ignore the jobs market and vagaries of the economic cycle. You need sufficient assets that a 3-4% yield can provide you with a very good income so you can live a rich lifestyle.

    I’m not interested in debating *perceptions* of being rich, just because of the neediness of some on here to score a victory over a minor debating point.
    I didn't trouble myself to take a position on the substance. I just noticed, once again, that your debating style reduces to "I am right, go away".
    Nope, that isn’t my style.

    I just have no interest in pointless debates with needy pedants.

    You also being one of them at times.
    Lol, classic.

    Sometimes I wonder what you get out of being here. It certainly isn't a sense of vindication.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited February 2020

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nor do I want to be rich. That attracts attention and hangers-on. I want comfort and peace.

    So I’d say a low six-figure salary for a numbers of years

    And you think that wouldn’t make you rich?!!
    No.
    You'd be rich to me. I guess I'd be rich to the bloke huddled in the shop doorway this morning, waiting to get moved on once the town centre opens.
    We can split hairs but you and I both know that’s not rich.

    Bloomberg and Trump are rich. Branson is rich.

    A medical consultant is just well off.
    They are all rich to the average earner, just the former are super rich
    No. Wrong again.
    No, absolutely right and it is very arrogant to average earners and the poor and unemployed to suggest if you are on a 6 figure salary you are not rich
    No, absolutely wrong.

    I’m not interested in discussing this further. I know I’m right.
    You must have this post on cut and paste.
    No, it’s a commonly accepted definition and threshold of rich. Look it up. Google is your a victory over a minor debating point.
    If 'debating' consists of saying

    "No"
    "No. Wrong again"
    "No, absolutely wrong"
    "No..."

    then it seems that you are interested in 'debating' it.
    No, I’m not debating it. I’m clarifying the argument.

    HYFUD has a pathological need to be right and it’s pointless arguing with him once he’s set out his stall because, rather than concede, he’ll simply move the goalposts when he senses he’s on weak ground.

    It’s a waste of my time.

    He’s arguing over perceptions of being rich. I’m arguing what actually defines being rich.
    If you earn well over average income, have far more property and assets than average and are perceived by the average person to be rich you are rich, however much you may squeal you are not.

    You do not need to be on the Sunday Times Rich list to be rich, super rich maybe but not just rich
  • IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nor do I want to be rich. That attracts attention and hangers-on. I want comfort and peace.

    So I’d say a low six-figure salary for a numbers of years

    And you think that wouldn’t make you rich?!!
    No.
    You'd.
    We can split hairs but you and I both know that’s not rich.

    Bloomberg and Trump are rich. Branson is rich.

    A medical consultant is just well off.
    They are all rich to the average earner, just the former are super rich
    No. Wrong again.
    No
    No, absolutely wrong.

    I’m not interested in discussing this further. I know I’m right.
    You must have this post on cut and paste.
    No, it’s a commonly accepted definition and threshold of rich. Look it up. Google is your friend. We’ve even posted it on here and discussed before, last time several weeks ago.

    It’s sufficient wealth such that you can ignore the jobs market and vagaries of the economic cycle. You need sufficient assets that a 3-4% yield can provide you with a very good income so you can live a rich lifestyle.

    I’m not interested in debating *perceptions* of being rich, just because of the neediness of some on here to score a victory over a minor debating point.
    If 'debating' consists of saying

    "No"
    "No. Wrong again"
    "No, absolutely wrong"
    "No..."

    then it seems that you are interested in 'debating' it.
    No, I’m not debating it. I’m clarifying the argument.

    HYFUD has a pathological need to be right and it’s pointless arguing with him once he’s set out his stall because, rather than concede, he’ll simply move the goalposts when he senses he’s on weak ground.

    It’s a waste of my time.

    He’s arguing over perceptions of being rich. I’m arguing what actually defines being rich.
    Why not cite your well established definition of being rich?

    Given it is inherently subjective I am sceptical there is a consensus on this but let's see what you are referring to.
    It’s been posted on here before. I can’t find it quickly enough on google.

    It might have been Richard Nabavi who did so.

    A common mistake is to slice it by the top 1% of earners (easy to measure) rather than by who is innately rich.
  • IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nor do I want to be rich. That attracts attention and hangers-on. I want comfort and peace.

    So I’d say a low six-figure salary for a numbers of years

    And you think that wouldn’t make you rich?!!
    No.
    You'd be rich to me. I guess I'd be rich to the bloke huddled in the shop doorway this morning, waiting to get moved on once the town centre opens.
    We can split hairs but you and I both know that’s not rich.

    Bloomberg and Trump are rich. Branson is rich.

    A medical consultant is just well off.
    They are all rich to the average earner, just the former are super rich
    No. Wrong again.
    No, absolutely right and it is very arrogant to average earners and the poor and unemployed to suggest if you are on a 6 figure salary you are not rich
    No, absolutely wrong.

    I’m not interested in discussing this further. I know I’m right.
    You must have this post on cut and paste.
    No, it’s a commonly accepted definition and threshold of rich. Look it up. Google is your friend. We’ve even posted it on here and discussed before, last time several weeks ago.

    It’s sufficient wealth such that you can ignore the jobs market and vagaries of the economic cycle. You need sufficient assets that a 3-4% yield can provide you with a very good income so you can live a rich lifestyle.

    I’m not interested in debating *perceptions* of being rich, just because of the neediness of some on here to score a victory over a minor debating point.
    I didn't trouble myself to take a position on the substance. I just noticed, once again, that your debating style reduces to "I am right, go away".
    Nope, that isn’t my style.

    I just have no interest in pointless debates with needy pedants.

    You also being one of them at times.
    Lol, classic.

    Sometimes I wonder what you get out of being here. It certainly isn't a sense of vindication.
    I could say the same about you.

    Come back to me when you’ve been a regular for fifteen years, met most of the editorial team, had several articles published and made a lot of money.

    (When you can get away from wrapping yourself up in your traitor’s apron that is.)
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nor do I want to be rich. That attracts attention and hangers-on. I want comfort and peace.

    So I’d say a low six-figure salary for a numbers of years

    And you think that wouldn’t make you rich?!!
    No.
    You'd be rich to me. I guess I'd be rich to the bloke huddled in the shop doorway this morning, waiting to get moved on once the town centre opens.
    We can split hairs but you and I both know that’s not rich.

    Bloomberg and Trump are rich. Branson is rich.

    A medical consultant is just well off.
    They are all rich to the average earner, just the former are super rich
    No. Wrong again.
    No, absolutely right and it is very arrogant to average earners and the poor and unemployed to suggest if you are on a 6 figure salary you are not rich
    No, absolutely wrong.

    I’m not interested in discussing this further. I know I’m right.
    You must have this post on cut and paste.
    No, it’s a commonly accepted definition and threshold of rich. Look it up. Google is your friend. We’ve even posted it on here and discussed before, last time several weeks ago.

    It’s sufficient wealth such that you can ignore the jobs market and vagaries of the economic cycle. You need sufficient assets that a 3-4% yield can provide you with a very good income so you can live a rich lifestyle.

    I’m not interested in debating *perceptions* of being rich, just because of the neediness of some on here to score a victory over a minor debating point.
    If 'debating' consists of saying

    "No"
    "No. Wrong again"
    "No, absolutely wrong"
    "No..."

    then it seems that you are interested in 'debating' it.
    No, I’m not debating it. I’m clarifying the argument.

    HYFUD has a pathological need to be right and it’s pointless arguing with him once he’s set out his stall because, rather than concede, he’ll simply move the goalposts when he senses he’s on weak ground.

    It’s a waste of my time.

    He’s arguing over perceptions of being rich. I’m arguing what actually defines being rich.
    Great. Could you now clear up how long a piece of string is, please? Always wondered about that.

    Incidentally ftse 100 sub 6900.
  • Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gabs3 said:

    Why is no-one talking about the anti-Muslim pogroms in India right now? Police standing by while innocent victims are beaten. This could easily spiral into genocide.

    I’m afraid the honest answer is probably because the British media has little or no interest in India. I only found out about it a few minutes ago, after three days. It certainly sounds extremely grim.
    The anti Muslim Modi mobs have going on for months now.
    I don’t know why but anyway I meet from Bombay calls it Bombay, not Mumbai.

    I’m up for that because I much prefer calling it Bombay as an English speaker anyway, we don’t call Vienna “Wien”, for example.

    I’m not sure if it means anything.
    I don’t think I’ve ever had a Chicken Chennai for dinner.

    The Indians all use use old names, even Mumbai airport is still BOM on your ticket.
    Begs the question why they renamed all the places and ruined it then.

    Kolkata being perhaps the weirdest one.
    Wasn’t it Hindu Nationalists making a point?
    Yes, it might well have been.

    We don’t have to respect sectarian renamings.
    It’s discourteous and anachronistic.
    That depends on the circumstances.

    We still call (including the BBC) Myanmar Burma and many Indians find Mumbai offensive.
    Are you sure the bbc still uses Burma?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12990563

    On Mumbai that is its name.
    It’s a crap name, partisan and sectarian. I call it Bombay, like many locals.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862

    It's official, the coronavirus is the worst thing to have happened to the human race.

    Apple's iPhone 12 Preparations May Be Delayed Due to Coronavirus Travel Restrictions

    https://www.macrumors.com/2020/02/25/apple-coronavirus-travel-restrictions-iphone-12/

    Did I not forecast that you having to wait a few weeks for a new phone was one of the more extreme likely outcomes of the virus?
  • IshmaelZ said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nor do I want to be rich. That attracts attention and hangers-on. I want comfort and peace.

    So I’d say a low six-figure salary for a numbers of years

    And you think that wouldn’t make you rich?!!
    No.
    You'd be rich to me. I guess I'd be rich to the bloke huddled in the shop doorway this morning, waiting to get moved on once the town centre opens.
    We can split hairs but you and I both know that’s not rich.

    Bloomberg and Trump are rich. Branson is rich.

    A medical consultant is just well off.
    They are all rich to the average earner, just the former are super rich
    No. Wrong again.
    No, absolutely right and it is very arrogant to average earners and the poor and unemployed to suggest if you are on a 6 figure salary you are not rich
    No, absolutely wrong.

    I’m not interested in discussing this further. I know I’m right.
    You must have this post on cut and paste.
    No, it’s a commonly accepted definition and threshold of rich. Look it up. Google is your friend. We’ve even posted it on here and discussed before, last time several weeks ago.

    It’s sufficient wealth such that you can ignore the jobs market and vagaries of the economic cycle. You need sufficient assets that a 3-4% yield can provide you with a very good income so you can live a rich lifestyle.

    I’m not interested in debating *perceptions* of being rich, just because of the neediness of some on here to score a victory over a minor debating point.
    If 'debating' consists of saying

    "No"
    "No. Wrong again"
    "No, absolutely wrong"
    "No..."

    then it seems that you are interested in 'debating' it.
    No, I’m not debating it. I’m clarifying the argument.

    HYFUD has a pathological need to be right and it’s pointless arguing with him once he’s set out his stall because, rather than concede, he’ll simply move the goalposts when he senses he’s on weak ground.

    It’s a waste of my time.

    He’s arguing over perceptions of being rich. I’m arguing what actually defines being rich.
    Great. Could you now clear up how long a piece of string is, please? Always wondered about that.

    Incidentally ftse 100 sub 6900.
    Already posted up thread.

    Don’t waste my time.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    edited February 2020
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gabs3 said:

    Why is no-one talking about the anti-Muslim pogroms in India right now? Police standing by while innocent victims are beaten. This could easily spiral into genocide.

    I’m afraid the honest answer is probably because the British media has little or no interest in India. I only found out about it a few minutes ago, after three days. It certainly sounds extremely grim.
    The anti Muslim Modi mobs have going on for months now.
    I don’t know why but anyway I meet from Bombay calls it Bombay, not Mumbai.

    I’m up for that because I much prefer calling it Bombay as an English speaker anyway, we don’t call Vienna “Wien”, for example.

    I’m not sure if it means anything.
    I don’t think I’ve ever had a Chicken Chennai for dinner.

    The Indians all use use old names, even Mumbai airport is still BOM on your ticket.
    That doesn't mean much, Ho Chin Min City is still SGN too.

    Nobody calls Harare "Salisbury" any more.
    I do. Rhodesia never dies.
    That’s a bit weird, even in jest

    It’s a matter of courtesy. If the government of somewhere changes its name then it’s polite to follow.

    Hence Beijing, Mumbai, Derry etc
    I don’t think the Government (the UK) have renamed Londonderry “Derry”.
    The local government did (I think the U.K. call it Derry/Londonderry)

    I think that within Northern Ireland it is known as Derry and is referred to as such by most people. Even Unionists would use it in casual conversation, though never officially. Outwith, it is Londonderry and the use of Derry would tend to denote nationalist/republican sympathies.

  • All HK residents getting £1k from the govt in response to coronavirus.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nor do I want to be rich. That attracts attention and hangers-on. I want comfort and peace.

    So I’d say a low six-figure salary for a numbers of years

    And you think that wouldn’t make you rich?!!
    No.
    You'd be rich to me. I guess I'd be rich to the bloke huddled in the shop doorway this morning, waiting to get moved on once the town centre opens.
    We can split hairs but you and I both know that’s not rich.

    Bloomberg and Trump are rich. Branson is rich.

    A medical consultant is just well off.
    They are all rich to the average earner, just the former are super rich
    No. Wrong again.
    No, absolutely right and it is very arrogant to average earners and the poor and unemployed to suggest if you are on a 6 figure salary you are not rich
    No, absolutely wrong.

    I’m not interested in discussing this further. I know I’m right.
    You must have this post on cut and paste.
    No, it’s a commonly accepted definition and threshold of rich. Look it up. Google is your a victory over a minor debating point.
    If 'debating' consists of saying

    "No"
    "No. Wrong again"
    "No, absolutely wrong"
    "No..."

    then it seems that you are interested in 'debating' it.
    No, I’m not debating it. I’m clarifying the argument.

    HYFUD has a pathological need to be right and it’s pointless arguing with him once he’s set out his stall because, rather than concede, he’ll simply move the goalposts when he senses he’s on weak ground.

    It’s a waste of my time.

    He’s arguing over perceptions of being rich. I’m arguing what actually defines being rich.
    If you earn well over average income, have far more property and assets than average and are perceived by the average person to be rich you are rich, however much you may squeal you are not.

    You do not need to be on the Sunday Times Rich list to be rich, super rich maybe but not just rich
    FWIW I have a modest lifestyle and am certainly relatively poor compared to most of my friends and family. But I fully accept that’s not how the average person would perceive me
This discussion has been closed.