KFC's Vegan Burger isn't bad. It's a tad cheaper than the Burger King Rebel Whopper. But the Rebel Whopper is far tastier
Not eating partially burnt bits of chopped up animal is definitely going mainstream. I'd guess at least 30% of my students (16 - 21 y.o. usually) are vegetarian/vegan.
Sadly, some people have no appreciation of being at the top of the food chain.
We have no natural predators, whether or not we eat meat ourselves.
I shall nobly resist the temptation to make an unbelievably tasteless joke about Harvey Weinstein.
Good job by the jury there today, one less dangerous bastard roaming loose despite the defence team’s bullying and hectoring.
How many other sexually predatory abusive men are there in Hollywood, TV etc who have done much the same, have not been put on trial and will in all likelihood get away with equally revolting behaviour?
No to mention all those doing similar stuff in other sectors/professions? The Bar when I was a junior barrister had its fair share of dirty old men expecting favours from young lawyers.
And how likely is it that such behaviour has stopped?
Not at all likely - though they are less likely to get away with it, and women are more likely to be believed. Even the recent past is a very different country.
Without wishing to flog a dead horse, I would like to believe that women will be more likely to be believed. But women are finding it hard to get people to believe that they have concerns about men claiming to be women having access to women only spaces. And are being threatened with expulsion from a political party if they express such views. So while women ought - after a case like Weinstein - to be listened to, I think that it is very easy for those who don’t want to listen to women’s views to find a reason to ignore them.
Its the classic problem too that even if you can show something happened, proving it wasn't consensual is difficult.
If a woman's purse is snatched nobody says to her "are you sure you didn't want your purse to be snatched?" No thief gets away with saying "she said she wanted me to nick her purse".
Very very few people ever do speak up about bad behaviour. Look at what happens to whistleblowers in the NHS or the police, for instance.
And they’re not speaking up now about other Hollywood bigwigs who have abused or are abusing their power, despite all the #MeToo fuss.
Pretty much every big scandal that has happened in recent years in any sector could have been stopped much much sooner if people who knew or suspected had said something and there had been a willingness to investigate the claims. But they didn’t and there wasn’t. Though as always there have been honourable exceptions.
Turning a blind eye, suffering in silence or walking away are the default options. Not standing up and saying: “This is wrong.” That takes a certain type of courage and bloody-mindedness and willingness to speak truth to power, which is rarer than one would like.
Why do you think it's so rare?
Why do you think? Because most people can not afford to rock the boat. They have mortgages to pay and families to feed.
One of the reasons I am having such trouble at work is because I am openly standing up to our bosses and demanding they follow employment law (which they are not doing, btw). Why have I done it? Because I am one of three people in that place who doesn’t actually need to work. I have a second job, a house with no mortgage, and no family. So if I push things too far and get the sack - that’s not a problem for me. I can wait while a tribunal reinstates me or awards compensation, and I have an alternative referee to call on. Therefore, I can hit back at them if they decide to behave like lunatics.
But in Hollywood, carefully chosen words can end careers in the time it takes a snap of the fingers. How many people dare take that risk? Ashley Judd’s ruin was I think warning enough to the others.
Now, with Weinstein’s conviction, that is hopefully changing.
I think we all need to have a nice soothing chamomile tea and calm the fuck down. The only dietary preaching going on here seems to be coming from the carnivorous section of PB. Eat whatever you want to eat, even Hawaiian pizza.
I think we all need to have a nice soothing chamomile tea and calm the fuck down. The only dietary preaching going on here seems to be coming from the carnivorous section of PB. Eat whatever you want to eat, even Hawaiian pizza.
If I wasn't swearing at the TV I'd be swearing at that post.
I think we all need to have a nice soothing chamomile tea and calm the fuck down. The only dietary preaching going on here seems to be coming from the carnivorous section of PB. Eat whatever you want to eat, even Hawaiian pizza.
I think we all need to have a nice soothing chamomile tea and calm the fuck down. The only dietary preaching going on here seems to be coming from the carnivorous section of PB. Eat whatever you want to eat, even Hawaiian pizza.
If I wasn't swearing at the TV I'd be swearing at the post.
Very very few people ever do speak up about bad behaviour. Look at what happens to whistleblowers in the NHS or the police, for instance.
And they’re not speaking up now about other Hollywood bigwigs who have abused or are abusing their power, despite all the #MeToo fuss.
Pretty much every big scandal that has happened in recent years in any sector could have been stopped much much sooner if people who knew or suspected had said something and there had been a willingness to investigate the claims. But they didn’t and there wasn’t. Though as always there have been honourable exceptions.
Turning a blind eye, suffering in silence or walking away are the default options. Not standing up and saying: “This is wrong.” That takes a certain type of courage and bloody-mindedness and willingness to speak truth to power, which is rarer than one would like.
Why do you think it's so rare?
Why do you think? Because most people can not afford to rock the boat. They have mortgages to pay and families to feed.
One of the reasons I am having such trouble at work is because I am openly standing up to our bosses and demanding they follow employment law (which they are not doing, btw). Why have I done it? Because I am one of three people in that place who doesn’t actually need to work. I have a second job, a house with no mortgage, and no family. So if I push things too far and get the sack - that’s not a problem for me. I can wait while a tribunal reinstates me or awards compensation, and I have an alternative referee to call on. Therefore, I can hit back at them if they decide to behave like lunatics.
But in Hollywood, carefully chosen words can end careers in the time it takes a snap of the fingers. How many people dare take that risk? Ashley Judd’s ruin was I think warning enough to the others.
Now, with Weinstein’s conviction, that is hopefully changing.
I was asking @Cyclefree for her professional view, not PB's resident pedant.
I think we all need to have a nice soothing chamomile tea and calm the fuck down. The only dietary preaching going on here seems to be coming from the carnivorous section of PB. Eat whatever you want to eat, even Hawaiian pizza.
I usually present my opinions on this subject in a very opinionated way, because I feel the prevailing trend is so the other way that it's best to be stark. I am not 'morally' against vegetarianism, or even veganism - it is nice to want to live doing no harm to others. But I do think it's deeply misguided.
I have just started watching Marco Polo om Netflix. I was slightly surprised to see dozens of naked female Chinese actors in several of the early episodes. Then I remembered that it is produced by Harvey Weinstein.
Sadly, some people have no appreciation of being at the top of the food chain.
We have no natural predators, whether or not we eat meat ourselves.
I shall nobly resist the temptation to make an unbelievably tasteless joke about Harvey Weinstein.
Good job by the jury there today, one less dangerous bastard roaming loose despite the defence team’s bullying and hectoring.
How many other sexually predatory abusive men are there in Hollywood, TV etc who have done much the same, have not been put on trial and will in all likelihood get away with equally revolting behaviour?
No to mention all those doing similar stuff in other sectors/professions? The Bar when I was a junior barrister had its fair share of dirty old men expecting favours from young lawyers.
And how likely is it that such behaviour has stopped?
Not at all likely - though they are less likely to get away with it, and women are more likely to be believed. Even the recent past is a very different country.
Without wishing to flog a dead horse, I would like to believe that women will be more likely to be believed. But women are finding it hard to get people to believe that they have concerns about men claiming to be women having access to women only spaces. And are being threatened with expulsion from a political party if they express such views. So while women ought - after a case like Weinstein - to be listened to, I think that it is very easy for those who don’t want to listen to women’s views to find a reason to ignore them.
Agreed (setting aside the Labour transgender policy issue for a moment, which I don’t think is quite the same thing) - and it’s not just women; you see a very similar dynamic with what is plain bullying in the workplace. Most people, even if they’re bothered by it, keep their heads down as they fear - or have witnessed - the consequences of speaking up.
And ‘more likely’ is not the same thing as likely, but things are undoubtedly better than two or three decades ago, when there was barely an audience for such things.
Modern health advice to me seems to say we need to eat more protein and fewer processed carbs. So keep your meat but ditch your potatoes. I can live with that, I'm trying to cut out eating too much chips not meat.
It doesn't surprise me at all that you like consuming copious amounts of meat
There's nothing wrong with that, its entirely natural.
I've never bowed before other people's religions (except out of respect if visiting a temple) and I have no intention of starting to do it with pretentious modern religions like vegetarianism.
Lot's of people just find it disgusting to eat meat...and despise everything about the meat industry. I don't quite get your religious reference....
There's nothing disgusting about eating meat, its entirely natural. If you find it disgusting then I pity you for your small minded bigotry and intolerance. Doesn't surprise me to see you showing yourself up as a small minded bigot once again though. You're so intolerant you are no better than a racist.
Lot's of people find eating meat disgusting...fact. Please stop making personal attacks on me which you seem to have taken to of late...
Stop being a hate filled bigot.
I just asked you quite nicely to stop making personal attacks on me...what is there not to understand about that request?
I'll re-phrase it...please do not make personal attacks on me. Thankyou
Modern health advice to me seems to say we need to eat more protein and fewer processed carbs. So keep your meat but ditch your potatoes. I can live with that, I'm trying to cut out eating too much chips not meat.
I wouldn't describe potatoes as processed carbs - it's the refined sugar that's more of a problem. Most westerners eat more protein than their body can make use of.
My personal take is to try to follow Leo's advice to eat a crapton of vegetables and then you can't go too far wrong from there.
I take pleasure from ordering halloumi burgers in restaurants - and then also bacon as an extra. I've had more than one waiter do a double-take at that.
I think we all need to have a nice soothing chamomile tea and calm the fuck down. The only dietary preaching going on here seems to be coming from the carnivorous section of PB. Eat whatever you want to eat, even Hawaiian pizza.
If I wasn't swearing at the TV I'd be swearing at the post.
Modern health advice to me seems to say we need to eat more protein and fewer processed carbs. So keep your meat but ditch your potatoes. I can live with that, I'm trying to cut out eating too much chips not meat.
It doesn't surprise me at all that you like consuming copious amounts of meat
There's nothing wrong with that, its entirely natural.
I've never bowed before other people's religions (except out of respect if visiting a temple) and I have no intention of starting to do it with pretentious modern religions like vegetarianism.
Lot's of people just find it disgusting to eat meat...and despise everything about the meat industry. I don't quite get your religious reference....
There's nothing disgusting about eating meat, its entirely natural. If you find it disgusting then I pity you for your small minded bigotry and intolerance. Doesn't surprise me to see you showing yourself up as a small minded bigot once again though. You're so intolerant you are no better than a racist.
Lot's of people find eating meat disgusting...fact. Please stop making personal attacks on me which you seem to have taken to of late...
Stop being a hate filled bigot.
I just asked you quite nicely to stop making personal attacks on me...what is there not to understand about that request?
I'll re-phrase it...please do not make personal attacks on me. Thankyou
KFC's Vegan Burger isn't bad. It's a tad cheaper than the Burger King Rebel Whopper. But the Rebel Whopper is far tastier
Not eating partially burnt bits of chopped up animal is definitely going mainstream. I'd guess at least 30% of my students (16 - 21 y.o. usually) are vegetarian/vegan.
Sadly, some people have no appreciation of being at the top of the food chain.
We have no natural predators, whether or not we eat meat ourselves.
KFC's Vegan Burger isn't bad. It's a tad cheaper than the Burger King Rebel Whopper. But the Rebel Whopper is far tastier
Not eating partially burnt bits of chopped up animal is definitely going mainstream. I'd guess at least 30% of my students (16 - 21 y.o. usually) are vegetarian/vegan.
Sadly, some people have no appreciation of being at the top of the food chain.
We have no natural predators, whether or not we eat meat ourselves.
I have just started watching Marco Polo om Netflix. I was slightly surprised to see dozens of naked female Chinese actors in several of the early episodes. Then I remembered that it is produced by Harvey Weinstein.
He and his brother Bob Weinstein co-founded the entertainment company Miramax, which produced several successful independent films, including Sex, Lies, and Videotape (1989), The Crying Game (1992), Pulp Fiction (1994), Heavenly Creatures (1994), Flirting with Disaster (1996), and Shakespeare in Love (1998).[1] Weinstein won an Academy Award for producing Shakespeare in Love, and seven Tony Awards for plays and musicals, including The Producers, Billy Elliot the Musical, and August: Osage County.[2] After leaving Miramax, Weinstein and his brother Bob founded The Weinstein Company, a mini-major film studio. He was co-chairman, alongside Bob, from 2005 to 2017.
I think we all need to have a nice soothing chamomile tea and calm the fuck down. The only dietary preaching going on here seems to be coming from the carnivorous section of PB. Eat whatever you want to eat, even Hawaiian pizza.
I usually present my opinions on this subject in a very opinionated way, because I feel the prevailing trend is so the other way that it's best to be stark. I am not 'morally' against vegetarianism, or even veganism - it is nice to want to live doing no harm to others. But I do think it's deeply misguided.
I follow a whole foods plant based diet, rather than calling myself vegan. I'm pragmatic about it, and don't view it as a religion. We had friends over yesterday for a Six Nations Sunday lunch. I cooked the meat eaters a nice chunk of organic Bison from a farm a few miles away. I wasn't sickened by the smell of roasting meat, nor did I try and convert them onto our Mushroom Wellington. Some of us wholefood plant based fellas are okish!
1. Easier not to do something than act. Easy to rationalise why you are not acting & why it is not your problem, someone else is looking at it, don’t know the facts etc. 2. Most people want a quiet life. They want to do the best for themselves & their families. These are honourable instincts. Putting yourself forward saying something that causes problems for others risks marking you out. Most people don’t want that. Most people metaphorically run away from the sound of gunfire or from a problem. Not towards them - unless it’s their job. 3. We value the group & group loyalty - family, party, team, firm, church, whatever. Speaking out is seen as being a snitch. You are now on the outside. And all for an abstract principle. Who wants that? 4. Curiosity is underrated as a value & people are often very incurious, even about quite outrageous statements. We’ve all had the experience of sitting in a meeting listening to inexplicable garbage, coming out, people saying “I didn’t understand a word of that!” but no-one actually putting their hand up to say “”What the hell are you talking about?” 5. People are afraid to challenge, have too great a respect for hierarchy. 6. People don’t often see the consequences of not speaking up & the harm that can result. When it happens organisations don’t really share the stories of what happened in order to reinforce training or values or principles. People learn best from stories not abstract principles. You tend to get the latter in lots of training (“here’s one rule, here’s another rule, ad nauseam”) A story makes it real & people need to understand why it matters to them personally.
So to get people to behave with a bit of courage & be willing to say what others are thinking you need to overcome these natural & understandable reactions. You need people who understand the consequences, who aren’t afraid or don’t care & who value the importance of doing the right thing over shinning up the greasy pole & arse-licking the boss. And if you are in an organisation & want to stay there while keeping your job, you need to be political & know how to win the necessary battles.
Those who do speak up either have licence to do it - it’s their job - and/or the personality. Or they can often be oddballs or difficult characters. Or they feel pushed into doing something.
KFC's Vegan Burger isn't bad. It's a tad cheaper than the Burger King Rebel Whopper. But the Rebel Whopper is far tastier
Not eating partially burnt bits of chopped up animal is definitely going mainstream. I'd guess at least 30% of my students (16 - 21 y.o. usually) are vegetarian/vegan.
Sadly, some people have no appreciation of being at the top of the food chain.
We have no natural predators, whether or not we eat meat ourselves.
KFC's Vegan Burger isn't bad. It's a tad cheaper than the Burger King Rebel Whopper. But the Rebel Whopper is far tastier
Not eating partially burnt bits of chopped up animal is definitely going mainstream. I'd guess at least 30% of my students (16 - 21 y.o. usually) are vegetarian/vegan.
Sadly, some people have no appreciation of being at the top of the food chain.
We have no natural predators, whether or not we eat meat ourselves.
I shall nobly resist the temptation to make an unbelievably tasteless joke about Harvey Weinstein.
Good job by the jury there today, one less dangerous bastard roaming loose despite the defence team’s bullying and hectoring.
How many other sexually predatory abusive men are there in Hollywood, TV etc who have done much the same, have not been put on trial and will in all likelihood get away with equally revolting behaviour?
No to mention all those doing similar stuff in other sectors/professions? The Bar when I was a junior barrister had its fair share of dirty old men expecting favours from young lawyers.
And how likely is it that such behaviour has stopped?
Weinstein's behaviour must have been very widely known in Hollywood.
Actors regularly lecture the rest of us.
Yet, actors & movie directors & producers did not speak out when it might have cost them in their careers -- and so Weinstein was allowed to operate with impunity as a bully and rapist for decades.
Living in LA, I am friends with a few actors and actresses (and West Wing fans will be pleased to note that I am out with Alison Janney tomorrow night... with my wife, I hasten to add).
It is well known which actors behave badly. And it is very sad when there is one whom you personally admire, about which you hear bad things.
On a positive note, I've never heard a bad word said about Tom Hanks.
Modern health advice to me seems to say we need to eat more protein and fewer processed carbs. So keep your meat but ditch your potatoes. I can live with that, I'm trying to cut out eating too much chips not meat.
It doesn't surprise me at all that you like consuming copious amounts of meat
There's nothing wrong with that, its entirely natural.
I've never bowed before other people's religions (except out of respect if visiting a temple) and I have no intention of starting to do it with pretentious modern religions like vegetarianism.
Lot's of people just find it disgusting to eat meat...and despise everything about the meat industry. I don't quite get your religious reference....
There's nothing disgusting about eating meat, its entirely natural. If you find it disgusting then I pity you for your small minded bigotry and intolerance. Doesn't surprise me to see you showing yourself up as a small minded bigot once again though. You're so intolerant you are no better than a racist.
Lot's of people find eating meat disgusting...fact. Please stop making personal attacks on me which you seem to have taken to of late...
Stop being a hate filled bigot.
I just asked you quite nicely to stop making personal attacks on me...what is there not to understand about that request?
I'll re-phrase it...please do not make personal attacks on me. Thankyou
You first. Please stop attacking people for going on cruises, or eating meat.
Why do you like to dish it out but then object to being called out for your bigotry?
Can you please try and not act as some kind of thought police...I should be able to critique things like cruises, eating meat, Brexit, hunting, climate change denial...things that I utterly despise without getting some nasty, ad hominem, personal attacks in return....
I think you were calling me vile the other day....Casino is often no better, others often jump out with something nasty and personal....it's a reason why I often vacate this site
Modern health advice to me seems to say we need to eat more protein and fewer processed carbs. So keep your meat but ditch your potatoes. I can live with that, I'm trying to cut out eating too much chips not meat.
It doesn't surprise me at all that you like consuming copious amounts of meat
There's nothing wrong with that, its entirely natural.
I've never bowed before other people's religions (except out of respect if visiting a temple) and I have no intention of starting to do it with pretentious modern religions like vegetarianism.
Lot's of people just find it disgusting to eat meat...and despise everything about the meat industry. I don't quite get your religious reference....
There's nothing disgusting about eating meat, its entirely natural. If you find it disgusting then I pity you for your small minded bigotry and intolerance. Doesn't surprise me to see you showing yourself up as a small minded bigot once again though. You're so intolerant you are no better than a racist.
Lot's of people find eating meat disgusting...fact. Please stop making personal attacks on me which you seem to have taken to of late...
Stop being a hate filled bigot.
It's no coincidence that two of the most aggressive posters on here to those who disagree with them are vegans. @Dura_Ace and @tyson
I think some people try and look for a morally righteous fulcrum around which they can exercise misanthropic judgement of others because there's actually an aspect of themselves they secretly hate.
I no longer eat meat and I expect many people would do the same if they took a long hard look at the meat and poultry industry and related animal welfare issues.
Each to his own but to be honest the things I have read and seen in the press turns my stomach these days and I find a lot of friends and acquaintances moving in the same direction (I am 70 and not a millennial before I am accused of being a snowflake).
Today, the US Appeals cord (DC Circit) will be hearing arguments, about the Presidential Debates Commissions rules on who gets to the debate stage are too strict, in theory if the Commission is required to lower the threshold then there could be 3 or more on the debate stage.
Could a change here make it more likely that Mitt Romney or somebody else attempts a third party run?
Modern health advice to me seems to say we need to eat more protein and fewer processed carbs. So keep your meat but ditch your potatoes. I can live with that, I'm trying to cut out eating too much chips not meat.
It doesn't surprise me at all that you like consuming copious amounts of meat
There's nothing wrong with that, its entirely natural.
I've never bowed before other people's religions (except out of respect if visiting a temple) and I have no intention of starting to do it with pretentious modern religions like vegetarianism.
Lot's of people just find it disgusting to eat meat...and despise everything about the meat industry. I don't quite get your religious reference....
There's nothing disgusting about eating meat, its entirely natural. If you find it disgusting then I pity you for your small minded bigotry and intolerance. Doesn't surprise me to see you showing yourself up as a small minded bigot once again though. You're so intolerant you are no better than a racist.
Lot's of people find eating meat disgusting...fact. Please stop making personal attacks on me which you seem to have taken to of late...
Stop being a hate filled bigot.
I just asked you quite nicely to stop making personal attacks on me...what is there not to understand about that request?
I'll re-phrase it...please do not make personal attacks on me. Thankyou
You first. Please stop attacking people for going on cruises, or eating meat.
Why do you like to dish it out but then object to being called out for your bigotry?
Can you please try and not act as some kind of thought police...I should be able to critique things like cruises, eating meat, Brexit, hunting, climate change denial...things that I utterly despise without getting some nasty, ad hominem, personal attacks in return....
I think you were calling me vile the other day....Casino is often no better, others often jump out with something nasty and personal....it's a reason why I often vacate this site
I notice you still haven't answered why it wasn't surprising that he ate copious amounts of meat though. Given how disgusting you find eating meat, how can that not be viewed as a personal insult?
1. Easier not to do something than act. Easy to rationalise why you are not acting & why it is not your problem, someone else is looking at it, don’t know the facts etc. 2. Most people want a quiet life. They want to do the best for themselves & their families. These are honourable instincts. Putting yourself forward saying something that causes problems for others risks marking you out. Most people don’t want that. Most people metaphorically run away from the sound of gunfire or from a problem. Not towards them - unless it’s their job. 3. We value the group & group loyalty - family, party, team, firm, church, whatever. Speaking out is seen as being a snitch. You are now on the outside. And all for an abstract principle. Who wants that? 4. Curiosity is underrated as a value & people are often very incurious, even about quite outrageous statements. We’ve all had the experience of sitting in a meeting listening to inexplicable garbage, coming out, people saying “I didn’t understand a word of that!” but no-one actually putting their hand up to say “”What the hell are you talking about?” 5. People are afraid to challenge, have too great a respect for hierarchy. 6. People don’t often see the consequences of not speaking up & the harm that can result. When it happens organisations don’t really share the stories of what happened in order to reinforce training or values or principles. People learn best from stories not abstract principles. You tend to get the latter in lots of training (“here’s one rule, here’s another rule, ad nauseam”) A story makes it real & people need to understand why it matters to them personally.
So to get people to behave with a bit of courage & be willing to say what others are thinking you need to overcome these natural & understandable reactions. You need people who understand the consequences, who aren’t afraid or don’t care & who value the importance of doing the right thing over shinning up the greasy pole & arse-licking the boss. And if you are in an organisation & want to stay there while keeping your job, you need to be political & know how to win the necessary battles.
Those who do speak up either have licence to do it - it’s their job - and/or the personality. Or they can often be oddballs or difficult characters. Or they feel pushed into doing something.
KFC's Vegan Burger isn't bad. It's a tad cheaper than the Burger King Rebel Whopper. But the Rebel Whopper is far tastier
Not eating partially burnt bits of chopped up animal is definitely going mainstream. I'd guess at least 30% of my students (16 - 21 y.o. usually) are vegetarian/vegan.
Yes, it's a problem. Thankfully, most young people are still perfectly sensible.
My daughter was gobbling up the black pudding and roast chicken I cooked at the weekend.
It's not a problem, it's a choice. There is enough trauma in the world without us adding to it by getting preachy on different dietary lifestyles!
It's very clear what the endgame here is for vegans.
They are a threat.
PB's resident meat-eating snowflake writes
PS. I'm actually a vegetarian, not a vegan!
No issue with that.
The vast majority of vegetarians do so from personal choice and have never been interested in pursuing broader political objectives.
I don't think vegetarianism is the healthiest possible diet
[swaggering] Man, I've been a vegetarian for over 28 years, and counting
I have not eaten meat since the age of three - simply because I have never liked it. Am a pescatarian - rather than vegetarian.
KFC's Vegan Burger isn't bad. It's a tad cheaper than the Burger King Rebel Whopper. But the Rebel Whopper is far tastier
Not eating partially burnt bits of chopped up animal is definitely going mainstream. I'd guess at least 30% of my students (16 - 21 y.o. usually) are vegetarian/vegan.
Yes, it's a problem. Thankfully, most young people are still perfectly sensible.
My daughter was gobbling up the black pudding and roast chicken I cooked at the weekend.
It's not a problem, it's a choice. There is enough trauma in the world without us adding to it by getting preachy on different dietary lifestyles!
It's very clear what the endgame here is for vegans.
They are a threat.
PB's resident meat-eating snowflake writes
PS. I'm actually a vegetarian, not a vegan!
No issue with that.
The vast majority of vegetarians do so from personal choice and have never been interested in pursuing broader political objectives.
I don't think vegetarianism is the healthiest possible diet
[swaggering] Man, I've been a vegetarian for over 28 years, and counting
KFC's Vegan Burger isn't bad. It's a tad cheaper than the Burger King Rebel Whopper. But the Rebel Whopper is far tastier
Not eating partially burnt bits of chopped up animal is definitely going mainstream. I'd guess at least 30% of my students (16 - 21 y.o. usually) are vegetarian/vegan.
Yes, it's a problem. Thankfully, most young people are still perfectly sensible.
My daughter was gobbling up the black pudding and roast chicken I cooked at the weekend.
It's not a problem, it's a choice. There is enough trauma in the world without us adding to it by getting preachy on different dietary lifestyles!
It's very clear what the endgame here is for vegans.
They are a threat.
PB's resident meat-eating snowflake writes
PS. I'm actually a vegetarian, not a vegan!
No issue with that.
The vast majority of vegetarians do so from personal choice and have never been interested in pursuing broader political objectives.
I don't think vegetarianism is the healthiest possible diet
[swaggering] Man, I've been a vegetarian for over 28 years, and counting
28 years without gammon.
Unimaginable......
I trust you enjoy your gammon with a bit of pineapple?
People tend to get used to things which they ought to be angry about. It's easier. And the more that people do this the more that even more people do it. End result is something that should cause outrage gets at best a shrug.
KFC's Vegan Burger isn't bad. It's a tad cheaper than the Burger King Rebel Whopper. But the Rebel Whopper is far tastier
Not eating partially burnt bits of chopped up animal is definitely going mainstream. I'd guess at least 30% of my students (16 - 21 y.o. usually) are vegetarian/vegan.
Sadly, some people have no appreciation of being at the top of the food chain.
We have no natural predators, whether or not we eat meat ourselves.
Tigers
Big problem in Barnes, are they?
They can be if you leave the door open.
Not at this time of the year. I've never seen a tiger in Barnes in the winter.
1. Easier not to do something than act. Easy to rationalise why you are not acting & why it is not your problem, someone else is looking at it, don’t know the facts etc. 2. Most people want a quiet life. They want to do the best for themselves & their families. These are honourable instincts. Putting yourself forward saying something that causes problems for others risks marking you out. Most people don’t want that. Most people metaphorically run away from the sound of gunfire or from a problem. Not towards them - unless it’s their job. 3. We value the group & group loyalty - family, party, team, firm, church, whatever. Speaking out is seen as being a snitch. You are now on the outside. And all for an abstract principle. Who wants that? 4. Curiosity is underrated as a value & people are often very incurious, even about quite outrageous statements. We’ve all had the experience of sitting in a meeting listening to inexplicable garbage, coming out, people saying “I didn’t understand a word of that!” but no-one actually putting their hand up to say “”What the hell are you talking about?” 5. People are afraid to challenge, have too great a respect for hierarchy. 6. People don’t often see the consequences of not speaking up & the harm that can result. When it happens organisations don’t really share the stories of what happened in order to reinforce training or values or principles. People learn best from stories not abstract principles. You tend to get the latter in lots of training (“here’s one rule, here’s another rule, ad nauseam”) A story makes it real & people need to understand why it matters to them personally.
So to get people to behave with a bit of courage & be willing to say what others are thinking you need to overcome these natural & understandable reactions. You need people who understand the consequences, who aren’t afraid or don’t care & who value the importance of doing the right thing over shinning up the greasy pole & arse-licking the boss. And if you are in an organisation & want to stay there while keeping your job, you need to be political & know how to win the necessary battles.
Those who do speak up either have licence to do it - it’s their job - and/or the personality. Or they can often be oddballs or difficult characters. Or they feel pushed into doing something.
It also helps if people at the top of an organisation understand that it's better overall for the organisation for things to be called out, and that those leaders therefore nurture a culture where whistleblowing is genuinely allowed and encouraged.
I just asked you quite nicely to stop making personal attacks on me...what is there not to understand about that request?
I'll re-phrase it...please do not make personal attacks on me. Thankyou
You first. Please stop attacking people for going on cruises, or eating meat.
Why do you like to dish it out but then object to being called out for your bigotry?
Can you please try and not act as some kind of thought police...I should be able to critique things like cruises, eating meat, Brexit, hunting, climate change denial...things that I utterly despise without getting some nasty, ad hominem, personal attacks in return....
I think you were calling me vile the other day....Casino is often no better, others often jump out with something nasty and personal....it's a reason why I often vacate this site
You're in a glass house stop throwing stones. Having a belief is one thing, but you don't just critique eating meat (as ignorant as that would be) you turn to nasty ad hominem personal attacks against people who eat meat or go on cruises etc.
You don't like cruises or meat eating. I don't like rude, intolerant and small minded bigots.
If you're prepared to go on unprovoked nasty, ad hominem personal attacks against me and others here then I'm prepared to give as good as I get. You chose to come here and make rude and insult me. You started this.
KFC's Vegan Burger isn't bad. It's a tad cheaper than the Burger King Rebel Whopper. But the Rebel Whopper is far tastier
Not eating partially burnt bits of chopped up animal is definitely going mainstream. I'd guess at least 30% of my students (16 - 21 y.o. usually) are vegetarian/vegan.
Sadly, some people have no appreciation of being at the top of the food chain.
We have no natural predators, whether or not we eat meat ourselves.
I shall nobly resist the temptation to make an unbelievably tasteless joke about Harvey Weinstein.
Good job by the jury there today, one less dangerous bastard roaming loose despite the defence team’s bullying and hectoring.
How many other sexually predatory abusive men are there in Hollywood, TV etc who have done much the same, have not been put on trial and will in all likelihood get away with equally revolting behaviour?
No to mention all those doing similar stuff in other sectors/professions? The Bar when I was a junior barrister had its fair share of dirty old men expecting favours from young lawyers.
And how likely is it that such behaviour has stopped?
Weinstein's behaviour must have been very widely known in Hollywood.
Actors regularly lecture the rest of us.
Yet, actors & movie directors & producers did not speak out when it might have cost them in their careers -- and so Weinstein was allowed to operate with impunity as a bully and rapist for decades.
Living in LA, I am friends with a few actors and actresses (and West Wing fans will be pleased to note that I am out with Alison Janney tomorrow night... with my wife, I hasten to add).
It is well known which actors behave badly. And it is very sad when there is one whom you personally admire, about which you hear bad things.
On a positive note, I've never heard a bad word said about Tom Hanks.
I note you have not told us the name of this actor you admire about whom you hear bad things .......
This poll is not promising for the Sanders can win thesis...
https://news.gallup.com/poll/285563/socialism-atheism-political-liabilities.aspx ... More than nine in 10 Americans say they would vote for a presidential candidate nominated by their party who happened to be black, Catholic, Hispanic, Jewish or a woman. Such willingness drops to eight in 10 for candidates who are evangelical Christians or are gays or lesbians. Between six and seven in 10 would vote for someone who is under 40 years of age, over 70, a Muslim or an atheist.
Just one group tested -- socialists -- receives majority opposition. Less than half of Americans, 45%, say they would vote for a socialist for president, while 53% say they would not.
People tend to get used to things which they ought to be angry about. It's easier. And the more that people do this the more that even more people do it. End result is something that should cause outrage gets at best a shrug.
KFC's Vegan Burger isn't bad. It's a tad cheaper than the Burger King Rebel Whopper. But the Rebel Whopper is far tastier
Not eating partially burnt bits of chopped up animal is definitely going mainstream. I'd guess at least 30% of my students (16 - 21 y.o. usually) are vegetarian/vegan.
Sadly, some people have no appreciation of being at the top of the food chain.
We have no natural predators, whether or not we eat meat ourselves.
I shall nobly resist the temptation to make an unbelievably tasteless joke about Harvey Weinstein.
Good job by the jury there today, one less dangerous bastard roaming loose despite the defence team’s bullying and hectoring.
How many other sexually predatory abusive men are there in Hollywood, TV etc who have done much the same, have not been put on trial and will in all likelihood get away with equally revolting behaviour?
No to mention all those doing similar stuff in other sectors/professions? The Bar when I was a junior barrister had its fair share of dirty old men expecting favours from young lawyers.
And how likely is it that such behaviour has stopped?
Weinstein's behaviour must have been very widely known in Hollywood.
Actors regularly lecture the rest of us.
Yet, actors & movie directors & producers did not speak out when it might have cost them in their careers -- and so Weinstein was allowed to operate with impunity as a bully and rapist for decades.
Living in LA, I am friends with a few actors and actresses (and West Wing fans will be pleased to note that I am out with Alison Janney tomorrow night... with my wife, I hasten to add).
It is well known which actors behave badly. And it is very sad when there is one whom you personally admire, about which you hear bad things.
On a positive note, I've never heard a bad word said about Tom Hanks.
I note you have not told us the name of this actor you admire about whom you hear bad things .......
Bit tricky legally, though, if you don’t actually have any evidence other than hearsay.
3. We value the group & group loyalty - family, party, team, firm, church, whatever. Speaking out is seen as being a snitch. You are now on the outside. And all for an abstract principle. Who wants that? 4. Curiosity is underrated as a value & people are often very incurious, even about quite outrageous statements. We’ve all had the experience of sitting in a meeting listening to inexplicable garbage, coming out, people saying “I didn’t understand a word of that!” but no-one actually putting their hand up to say “”What the hell are you talking about?” 5. People are afraid to challenge, have too great a respect for hierarchy. 6. People don’t often see the consequences of not speaking up & the harm that can result. When it happens organisations don’t really share the stories of what happened in order to reinforce training or values or principles. People learn best from stories not abstract principles. You tend to get the latter in lots of training (“here’s one rule, here’s another rule, ad nauseam”) A story makes it real & people need to understand why it matters to them personally.
So to get people to behave with a bit of courage & be willing to say what others are thinking you need to overcome these natural & understandable reactions. You need people who understand the consequences, who aren’t afraid or don’t care & who value the importance of doing the right thing over shinning up the greasy pole & arse-licking the boss. And if you are in an organisation & want to stay there while keeping your job, you need to be political & know how to win the necessary battles.
Those who do speak up either have licence to do it - it’s their job - and/or the personality. Or they can often be oddballs or difficult characters. Or they feel pushed into doing something.
Thanks for that. You are reminding me of my own experience - in a rather different context. Some time ago I referred to the hostility I encountered on Facebook when seeking to 'out' my former Headmaster in respect of Physical Abuse he was responsible for over a twenty year period. My comments were not generally well received by other Old Boys of my school.
KFC's Vegan Burger isn't bad. It's a tad cheaper than the Burger King Rebel Whopper. But the Rebel Whopper is far tastier
Not eating partially burnt bits of chopped up animal is definitely going mainstream. I'd guess at least 30% of my students (16 - 21 y.o. usually) are vegetarian/vegan.
Sadly, some people have no appreciation of being at the top of the food chain.
We have no natural predators, whether or not we eat meat ourselves.
Tigers
Big problem in Barnes, are they?
They can be if you leave the door open.
Not at this time of the year. I've never seen a tiger in Barnes in the winter.
I think we all need to have a nice soothing chamomile tea and calm the fuck down. The only dietary preaching going on here seems to be coming from the carnivorous section of PB. Eat whatever you want to eat, even Hawaiian pizza.
I usually present my opinions on this subject in a very opinionated way, because I feel the prevailing trend is so the other way that it's best to be stark. I am not 'morally' against vegetarianism, or even veganism - it is nice to want to live doing no harm to others. But I do think it's deeply misguided.
There also seems to be an unwarranted growing consensus that th4 meat industry is finished and everyone is turning vegan or vegetarian.
Meat consumption is fairly stable, mild drop off in beef, but increase in poultry. We still love meat and plenty of it.
Too many people taking too much notice of loud people on twitter and other social media.
1. Easier not to do something than act. 2. Most people want a quiet life. They want to do the best for themselves & their families. These are honourable instincts. Putting yourself forward saying something that causes problems for others risks marking you out. Most people don’t want that. Most people metaphorically run away from the sound of gunfire or from a problem. Not towards them - unless it’s their job. 3. We value the group & group loyalty - family, party, team, firm, church, whatever. Speaking out is seen as being a snitch. You are now on the outside. And all for an abstract principle. Who wants that? 4. Curiosity is underrated as a value & people are often very incurious, even about quite outrageous statements. We’ve all had the experience of sitting in a meeting listening to inexplicable garbage, coming out, people saying “I didn’t understand a word of that!” but no-one actually putting their hand up to say “”What the hell are you talking about?” 5. People are afraid to challenge, have too great a respect for hierarchy. 6. People don’t often see the consequences of not speaking up & the harm that can result. When it happens organisations don’t really share the stories of what happened in order to reinforce training or values or principles. People learn best from stories not abstract principles. You tend to get the latter in lots of training (“here’s one rule, here’s another rule, ad nauseam”) A story makes it real & people need to understand why it matters to them personally.
So to get people to behave with a bit of courage & be willing to say what others are thinking you need to overcome these natural & understandable reactions. You need people who understand the consequences, who aren’t afraid or don’t care & who value the importance of doing the right thing over shinning up the greasy pole & arse-licking the boss. And if you are in an organisation & want to stay there while keeping your job, you need to be political & know how to win the necessary battles.
Those who do speak up either have licence to do it - it’s their job - and/or the personality. Or they can often be oddballs or difficult characters. Or they feel pushed into doing something.
It also helps if people at the top of an organisation understand that it's better overall for the organisation for things to be called out, and that those leaders therefore nurture a culture where whistleblowing is genuinely allowed and encouraged.
Indeed. They need to see mistakes as learning opportunities. They also need not to think of themselves or be thought by others as indispensable. No-one will challenge someone seen as untouchable. This requires empathy and an understanding of people which is often not very present in those who get to the top of organisations.
I think that Weinstein type behaviour is particularly likely in areas where patronage and recommendation are the system of preferment and career progression. Not just sexual harassment, but other forms of bullying too.
The performing arts have been like this since the year dot (hence the casting couch in Hollywood), but politics* and the law do not have clean records. It was true of medicine at one time, but national appointments by objective criteria have pretty much ended it.
*Indeed when we look at recent events in Scotland and in Westminster quite possibly politics is as bad as anywhere. All parties have been way too tolerant of this, including the Lib Dems.
KFC's Vegan Burger isn't bad. It's a tad cheaper than the Burger King Rebel Whopper. But the Rebel Whopper is far tastier
Not eating partially burnt bits of chopped up animal is definitely going mainstream. I'd guess at least 30% of my students (16 - 21 y.o. usually) are vegetarian/vegan.
Sadly, some people have no appreciation of being at the top of the food chain.
We have no natural predators, whether or not we eat meat ourselves.
I shall nobly resist the temptation to make an unbelievably tasteless joke about Harvey Weinstein.
Good job by the jury there today, one less dangerous bastard roaming loose despite the defence team’s bullying and hectoring.
How many other sexually predatory abusive men are there in Hollywood, TV etc who have done much the same, have not been put on trial and will in all likelihood get away with equally revolting behaviour?
No to mention all those doing similar stuff in other sectors/professions? The Bar when I was a junior barrister had its fair share of dirty old men expecting favours from young lawyers.
And how likely is it that such behaviour has stopped?
Weinstein's behaviour must have been very widely known in Hollywood.
Actors regularly lecture the rest of us.
Yet, actors & movie directors & producers did not speak out when it might have cost them in their careers -- and so Weinstein was allowed to operate with impunity as a bully and rapist for decades.
Living in LA, I am friends with a few actors and actresses (and West Wing fans will be pleased to note that I am out with Alison Janney tomorrow night... with my wife, I hasten to add).
It is well known which actors behave badly. And it is very sad when there is one whom you personally admire, about which you hear bad things.
On a positive note, I've never heard a bad word said about Tom Hanks.
I note you have not told us the name of this actor you admire about whom you hear bad things .......
Bit tricky legally, though, if you don’t actually have any evidence other than hearsay.
This poll is not promising for the Sanders can win thesis...
https://news.gallup.com/poll/285563/socialism-atheism-political-liabilities.aspx ... More than nine in 10 Americans say they would vote for a presidential candidate nominated by their party who happened to be black, Catholic, Hispanic, Jewish or a woman. Such willingness drops to eight in 10 for candidates who are evangelical Christians or are gays or lesbians. Between six and seven in 10 would vote for someone who is under 40 years of age, over 70, a Muslim or an atheist.
Just one group tested -- socialists -- receives majority opposition. Less than half of Americans, 45%, say they would vote for a socialist for president, while 53% say they would not.
Modern health advice to me seems to say we need to eat more protein and fewer processed carbs. So keep your meat but ditch your potatoes. I can live with that, I'm trying to cut out eating too much chips not meat.
I wouldn't describe potatoes as processed carbs - it's the refined sugar that's more of a problem. Most westerners eat more protein than their body can make use of.
My personal take is to try to follow Leo's advice to eat a crapton of vegetables and then you can't go too far wrong from there.
I take pleasure from ordering halloumi burgers in restaurants - and then also bacon as an extra. I've had more than one waiter do a double-take at that.
I think processed carbs are the worst, but certain natural carbs also have a high glycemic index and, for me, are best avoided or limited. Alas, potatoes, rice, pasta and bread all fall in that category.
But the upside is that it is forcing me to explore other staples, such as the pulses. Finding tons are delicious recipes for lentils, chickpeas and cannellini (white kidney) beans.
KFC's Vegan Burger isn't bad. It's a tad cheaper than the Burger King Rebel Whopper. But the Rebel Whopper is far tastier
Not eating partially burnt bits of chopped up animal is definitely going mainstream. I'd guess at least 30% of my students (16 - 21 y.o. usually) are vegetarian/vegan.
Sadly, some people have no appreciation of being at the top of the food chain.
We have no natural predators, whether or not we eat meat ourselves.
I shall nobly resist the temptation to make an unbelievably tasteless joke about Harvey Weinstein.
Good job by the jury there today, one less dangerous bastard roaming loose despite the defence team’s bullying and hectoring.
How many other sexually predatory abusive men are there in Hollywood, TV etc who have done much the same, have not been put on trial and will in all likelihood get away with equally revolting behaviour?
No to mention all those doing similar stuff in other sectors/professions? The Bar when I was a junior barrister had its fair share of dirty old men expecting favours from young lawyers.
And how likely is it that such behaviour has stopped?
Weinstein's behaviour must have been very widely known in Hollywood.
Actors regularly lecture the rest of us.
Yet, actors & movie directors & producers did not speak out when it might have cost them in their careers -- and so Weinstein was allowed to operate with impunity as a bully and rapist for decades.
Living in LA, I am friends with a few actors and actresses (and West Wing fans will be pleased to note that I am out with Alison Janney tomorrow night... with my wife, I hasten to add).
It is well known which actors behave badly. And it is very sad when there is one whom you personally admire, about which you hear bad things.
On a positive note, I've never heard a bad word said about Tom Hanks.
I note you have not told us the name of this actor you admire about whom you hear bad things .......
Here's the thing.
It might not be true. In which case I'm spreading scurrilous gossip about someone who may be blameless.
Modern health advice to me seems to say we need to eat more protein and fewer processed carbs. So keep your meat but ditch your potatoes. I can live with that, I'm trying to cut out eating too much chips not meat.
I wouldn't describe potatoes as processed carbs - it's the refined sugar that's more of a problem. Most westerners eat more protein than their body can make use of.
My personal take is to try to follow Leo's advice to eat a crapton of vegetables and then you can't go too far wrong from there.
I take pleasure from ordering halloumi burgers in restaurants - and then also bacon as an extra. I've had more than one waiter do a double-take at that.
I think processed carbs are the worst, but certain natural carbs also have a high glycemic index and, for me, are best avoided or limited. Alas, potatoes, rice, pasta and bread all fall in that category.
But the upside is that it is forcing me to explore other staples, such as the pulses. Finding tons are delicious recipes for lentils, chickpeas and cannellini (white kidney) beans.
Have you tried cold potatoes ? They are supposed to be better in this respect - even when re-cooked.
I think that Weinstein type behaviour is particularly likely in areas where patronage and recommendation are the system of preferment and career progression. Not just sexual harassment, but other forms of bullying too.
The performing arts have been like this since the year dot (hence the casting couch in Hollywood), but politics* and the law do not have clean records. It was true of medicine at one time, but national appointments by objective criteria have pretty much ended it.
*Indeed when we look at recent events in Scotland and in Westminster quite possibly politics is as bad as anywhere. All parties have been way too tolerant of this, including the Lib Dems.
Yet the NHS has an appalling record with regard to whistleblowers and many recent scandals shared one common characteristic - people knew or suspected but did or said nothing.
KFC's Vegan Burger isn't bad. It's a tad cheaper than the Burger King Rebel Whopper. But the Rebel Whopper is far tastier
Not eating partially burnt bits of chopped up animal is definitely going mainstream. I'd guess at least 30% of my students (16 - 21 y.o. usually) are vegetarian/vegan.
Sadly, some people have no appreciation of being at the top of the food chain.
We have no natural predators, whether or not we eat meat ourselves.
I shall nobly resist the temptation to make an unbelievably tasteless joke about Harvey Weinstein.
Good job by the jury there today, one less dangerous bastard roaming loose despite the defence team’s bullying and hectoring.
How many other sexually predatory abusive men are there in Hollywood, TV etc who have done much the same, have not been put on trial and will in all likelihood get away with equally revolting behaviour?
No to mention all those doing similar stuff in other sectors/professions? The Bar when I was a junior barrister had its fair share of dirty old men expecting favours from young lawyers.
And how likely is it that such behaviour has stopped?
Weinstein's behaviour must have been very widely known in Hollywood.
Actors regularly lecture the rest of us.
Yet, actors & movie directors & producers did not speak out when it might have cost them in their careers -- and so Weinstein was allowed to operate with impunity as a bully and rapist for decades.
Living in LA, I am friends with a few actors and actresses (and West Wing fans will be pleased to note that I am out with Alison Janney tomorrow night... with my wife, I hasten to add).
It is well known which actors behave badly. And it is very sad when there is one whom you personally admire, about which you hear bad things.
On a positive note, I've never heard a bad word said about Tom Hanks.
I note you have not told us the name of this actor you admire about whom you hear bad things .......
I can confirm that said actor was not in the West Wing. So, those of you worrying about Sheen, Sr, can sleep easy.
I think we all need to have a nice soothing chamomile tea and calm the fuck down. The only dietary preaching going on here seems to be coming from the carnivorous section of PB. Eat whatever you want to eat, even Hawaiian pizza.
I usually present my opinions on this subject in a very opinionated way, because I feel the prevailing trend is so the other way that it's best to be stark. I am not 'morally' against vegetarianism, or even veganism - it is nice to want to live doing no harm to others. But I do think it's deeply misguided.
There also seems to be an unwarranted growing consensus that th4 meat industry is finished and everyone is turning vegan or vegetarian.
Meat consumption is fairly stable, mild drop off in beef, but increase in poultry. We still love meat and plenty of it.
Too many people taking too much notice of loud people on twitter and other social media.
Will console myself with the thought that Man U have prevented a 100% record
It is remarkable that its seriously plausible that could be the only non-victory of the season! Though unlikely, April and May we still have a number of Big 6 Away games yet.
Still 7 wins from final 11 games needed to get the ton of points up. Who'd have thought two seasons ago that Man City's record could quickly be beaten?
Very very few people ever do speak up about bad behaviour. Look at what happens to whistleblowers in the NHS or the police, for instance.
And they’re not speaking up now about other Hollywood bigwigs who have abused or are abusing their power, despite all the #MeToo fuss.
Pretty much every big scandal that has happened in recent years in any sector could have been stopped much much sooner if people who knew or suspected had said something and there had been a willingness to investigate the claims. But they didn’t and there wasn’t. Though as always there have been honourable exceptions.
Turning a blind eye, suffering in silence or walking away are the default options. Not standing up and saying: “This is wrong.” That takes a certain type of courage and bloody-mindedness and willingness to speak truth to power, which is rarer than one would like.
Why do you think it's so rare?
Why do you think? Because most people can not afford to rock the boat. They have mortgages to pay and families to feed.
One of the reasons I am having such trouble at work is because I am openly standing up to our bosses and demanding they follow employment law (which they are not doing, btw). Why have I done it? Because I am one of three people in that place who doesn’t actually need to work. I have a second job, a house with no mortgage, and no family. So if I push things too far and get the sack - that’s not a problem for me. I can wait while a tribunal reinstates me or awards compensation, and I have an alternative referee to call on. Therefore, I can hit back at them if they decide to behave like lunatics.
But in Hollywood, carefully chosen words can end careers in the time it takes a snap of the fingers. How many people dare take that risk? Ashley Judd’s ruin was I think warning enough to the others.
Now, with Weinstein’s conviction, that is hopefully changing.
Good luck, Mr D. It's a horrible situation to be in.
KFC's Vegan Burger isn't bad. It's a tad cheaper than the Burger King Rebel Whopper. But the Rebel Whopper is far tastier
Not eating partially burnt bits of chopped up animal is definitely going mainstream. I'd guess at least 30% of my students (16 - 21 y.o. usually) are vegetarian/vegan.
Sadly, some people have no appreciation of being at the top of the food chain.
We have no natural predators, whether or not we eat meat ourselves.
I shall nobly resist the temptation to make an unbelievably tasteless joke about Harvey Weinstein.
Good job by the jury there today, one less dangerous bastard roaming loose despite the defence team’s bullying and hectoring.
How many other sexually predatory abusive men are there in Hollywood, TV etc who have done much the same, have not been put on trial and will in all likelihood get away with equally revolting behaviour?
No to mention all those doing similar stuff in other sectors/professions? The Bar when I was a junior barrister had its fair share of dirty old men expecting favours from young lawyers.
And how likely is it that such behaviour has stopped?
Weinstein's behaviour must have been very widely known in Hollywood.
Actors regularly lecture the rest of us.
Yet, actors & movie directors & producers did not speak out when it might have cost them in their careers -- and so Weinstein was allowed to operate with impunity as a bully and rapist for decades.
Living in LA, I am friends with a few actors and actresses (and West Wing fans will be pleased to note that I am out with Alison Janney tomorrow night... with my wife, I hasten to add).
It is well known which actors behave badly. And it is very sad when there is one whom you personally admire, about which you hear bad things.
On a positive note, I've never heard a bad word said about Tom Hanks.
I note you have not told us the name of this actor you admire about whom you hear bad things .......
I can confirm that said actor was not in the West Wing. So, those of you worrying about Sheen, Sr, can sleep easy.
I notice the Sr but allegations against Sheen, Jr would hardly be a shocking revelation.
I think we all need to have a nice soothing chamomile tea and calm the fuck down. The only dietary preaching going on here seems to be coming from the carnivorous section of PB. Eat whatever you want to eat, even Hawaiian pizza.
I usually present my opinions on this subject in a very opinionated way, because I feel the prevailing trend is so the other way that it's best to be stark. I am not 'morally' against vegetarianism, or even veganism - it is nice to want to live doing no harm to others. But I do think it's deeply misguided.
There also seems to be an unwarranted growing consensus that th4 meat industry is finished and everyone is turning vegan or vegetarian.
Meat consumption is fairly stable, mild drop off in beef, but increase in poultry. We still love meat and plenty of it.
Too many people taking too much notice of loud people on twitter and other social media.
I think we all need to have a nice soothing chamomile tea and calm the fuck down. The only dietary preaching going on here seems to be coming from the carnivorous section of PB. Eat whatever you want to eat, even Hawaiian pizza.
I usually present my opinions on this subject in a very opinionated way, because I feel the prevailing trend is so the other way that it's best to be stark. I am not 'morally' against vegetarianism, or even veganism - it is nice to want to live doing no harm to others. But I do think it's deeply misguided.
There also seems to be an unwarranted growing consensus that th4 meat industry is finished and everyone is turning vegan or vegetarian.
Meat consumption is fairly stable, mild drop off in beef, but increase in poultry. We still love meat and plenty of it.
Too many people taking too much notice of loud people on twitter and other social media.
I think we all need to have a nice soothing chamomile tea and calm the fuck down. The only dietary preaching going on here seems to be coming from the carnivorous section of PB. Eat whatever you want to eat, even Hawaiian pizza.
I usually present my opinions on this subject in a very opinionated way, because I feel the prevailing trend is so the other way that it's best to be stark. I am not 'morally' against vegetarianism, or even veganism - it is nice to want to live doing no harm to others. But I do think it's deeply misguided.
There also seems to be an unwarranted growing consensus that th4 meat industry is finished and everyone is turning vegan or vegetarian.
Meat consumption is fairly stable, mild drop off in beef, but increase in poultry. We still love meat and plenty of it.
Too many people taking too much notice of loud people on twitter and other social media.
How many other sexually predatory abusive men are there in Hollywood, TV etc who have done much the same, have not been put on trial and will in all likelihood get away with equally revolting behaviour?
No to mention all those doing similar stuff in other sectors/professions? The Bar when I was a junior barrister had its fair share of dirty old men expecting favours from young lawyers.
And how likely is it that such behaviour has stopped?
Weinstein's behaviour must have been very widely known in Hollywood.
Actors regularly lecture the rest of us.
Yet, actors & movie directors & producers did not speak out when it might have cost them in their careers -- and so Weinstein was allowed to operate with impunity as a bully and rapist for decades.
Living in LA, I am friends with a few actors and actresses (and West Wing fans will be pleased to note that I am out with Alison Janney tomorrow night... with my wife, I hasten to add).
It is well known which actors behave badly. And it is very sad when there is one whom you personally admire, about which you hear bad things.
On a positive note, I've never heard a bad word said about Tom Hanks.
I note you have not told us the name of this actor you admire about whom you hear bad things .......
Here's the thing.
It might not be true. In which case I'm spreading scurrilous gossip about someone who may be blameless.
I don't really want to libel someone.
And especially not on your Dad’s site. Lawyers, etc, eh? So I quite understand.
Still, you give a perfect example of how other people rationalise - apparently perfectly reasonably - why they don’t speak up - even anonymously to someone trustworthy whose job it is to investigate allegations.
Lots of online and paper training was given at my bank about whistleblowing. But it was after I gave face to face talks to people about why it matters that I got most claims. People need to feel empowered to speak and need to feel that they can trust the person they’re confiding in. Hard to do just by publicising a procedure.
I think we all need to have a nice soothing chamomile tea and calm the fuck down. The only dietary preaching going on here seems to be coming from the carnivorous section of PB. Eat whatever you want to eat, even Hawaiian pizza.
I usually present my opinions on this subject in a very opinionated way, because I feel the prevailing trend is so the other way that it's best to be stark. I am not 'morally' against vegetarianism, or even veganism - it is nice to want to live doing no harm to others. But I do think it's deeply misguided.
There also seems to be an unwarranted growing consensus that th4 meat industry is finished and everyone is turning vegan or vegetarian.
Meat consumption is fairly stable, mild drop off in beef, but increase in poultry. We still love meat and plenty of it.
Too many people taking too much notice of loud people on twitter and other social media.
I think that Weinstein type behaviour is particularly likely in areas where patronage and recommendation are the system of preferment and career progression. Not just sexual harassment, but other forms of bullying too.
The performing arts have been like this since the year dot (hence the casting couch in Hollywood), but politics* and the law do not have clean records. It was true of medicine at one time, but national appointments by objective criteria have pretty much ended it.
*Indeed when we look at recent events in Scotland and in Westminster quite possibly politics is as bad as anywhere. All parties have been way too tolerant of this, including the Lib Dems.
Yet the NHS has an appalling record with regard to whistleblowers and many recent scandals shared one common characteristic - people knew or suspected but did or said nothing.
I was referring to sexual harassment in the medical profession, I agree bullying and persecuting of whistleblowers is prevalent. West Sufolk is a real eyebrow raiser at present.
I think we all need to have a nice soothing chamomile tea and calm the fuck down. The only dietary preaching going on here seems to be coming from the carnivorous section of PB. Eat whatever you want to eat, even Hawaiian pizza.
I usually present my opinions on this subject in a very opinionated way, because I feel the prevailing trend is so the other way that it's best to be stark. I am not 'morally' against vegetarianism, or even veganism - it is nice to want to live doing no harm to others. But I do think it's deeply misguided.
There also seems to be an unwarranted growing consensus that th4 meat industry is finished and everyone is turning vegan or vegetarian.
Meat consumption is fairly stable, mild drop off in beef, but increase in poultry. We still love meat and plenty of it.
Too many people taking too much notice of loud people on twitter and other social media.
I think we all need to have a nice soothing chamomile tea and calm the fuck down. The only dietary preaching going on here seems to be coming from the carnivorous section of PB. Eat whatever you want to eat, even Hawaiian pizza.
I usually present my opinions on this subject in a very opinionated way, because I feel the prevailing trend is so the other way that it's best to be stark. I am not 'morally' against vegetarianism, or even veganism - it is nice to want to live doing no harm to others. But I do think it's deeply misguided.
There also seems to be an unwarranted growing consensus that th4 meat industry is finished and everyone is turning vegan or vegetarian.
Meat consumption is fairly stable, mild drop off in beef, but increase in poultry. We still love meat and plenty of it.
Too many people taking too much notice of loud people on twitter and other social media.
I think we all need to have a nice soothing chamomile tea and calm the fuck down. The only dietary preaching going on here seems to be coming from the carnivorous section of PB. Eat whatever you want to eat, even Hawaiian pizza.
I usually present my opinions on this subject in a very opinionated way, because I feel the prevailing trend is so the other way that it's best to be stark. I am not 'morally' against vegetarianism, or even veganism - it is nice to want to live doing no harm to others. But I do think it's deeply misguided.
There also seems to be an unwarranted growing consensus that th4 meat industry is finished and everyone is turning vegan or vegetarian.
Meat consumption is fairly stable, mild drop off in beef, but increase in poultry. We still love meat and plenty of it.
Too many people taking too much notice of loud people on twitter and other social media.
Oddschecker have various books on Republican and 'Democrat' (sic) races. 'Democrat' as a party does not exist as you know. It is the 'Democratic' Party. 'Democrat' is a right wing slur used in US politics. I have tried to alert oddschecker of their: a) BIAS or b) IGNORANCE through their feedback email but it bounced back. Can you help?
Comments
If a woman's purse is snatched nobody says to her "are you sure you didn't want your purse to be snatched?" No thief gets away with saying "she said she wanted me to nick her purse".
One of my fantasies anyway.
One of the reasons I am having such trouble at work is because I am openly standing up to our bosses and demanding they follow employment law (which they are not doing, btw). Why have I done it? Because I am one of three people in that place who doesn’t actually need to work. I have a second job, a house with no mortgage, and no family. So if I push things too far and get the sack - that’s not a problem for me. I can wait while a tribunal reinstates me or awards compensation, and I have an alternative referee to call on. Therefore, I can hit back at them if they decide to behave like lunatics.
But in Hollywood, carefully chosen words can end careers in the time it takes a snap of the fingers. How many people dare take that risk? Ashley Judd’s ruin was I think warning enough to the others.
Now, with Weinstein’s conviction, that is hopefully changing.
Some things are beyond the pale...
And ‘more likely’ is not the same thing as likely, but things are undoubtedly better than two or three decades ago, when there was barely an audience for such things.
My personal take is to try to follow Leo's advice to eat a crapton of vegetables and then you can't go too far wrong from there.
I take pleasure from ordering halloumi burgers in restaurants - and then also bacon as an extra. I've had more than one waiter do a double-take at that.
Sanders would get hammered by Trump.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Weinstein
Briefly:-
1. Easier not to do something than act. Easy to rationalise why you are not acting & why it is not your problem, someone else is looking at it, don’t know the facts etc.
2. Most people want a quiet life. They want to do the best for themselves & their families. These are honourable instincts. Putting yourself forward saying something that causes problems for others risks marking you out. Most people don’t want that. Most people metaphorically run away from the sound of gunfire or from a problem. Not towards them - unless it’s their job.
3. We value the group & group loyalty - family, party, team, firm, church, whatever. Speaking out is seen as being a snitch. You are now on the outside. And all for an abstract principle. Who wants that?
4. Curiosity is underrated as a value & people are often very incurious, even about quite outrageous statements. We’ve all had the experience of sitting in a meeting listening to inexplicable garbage, coming out, people saying “I didn’t understand a word of that!” but no-one actually putting their hand up to say “”What the hell are you talking about?”
5. People are afraid to challenge, have too great a respect for hierarchy.
6. People don’t often see the consequences of not speaking up & the harm that can result. When it happens organisations don’t really share the stories of what happened in order to reinforce training or values or principles. People learn best from stories not abstract principles. You tend to get the latter in lots of training (“here’s one rule, here’s another rule, ad nauseam”) A story makes it real & people need to understand why it matters to them personally.
So to get people to behave with a bit of courage & be willing to say what others are thinking you need to overcome these natural & understandable reactions. You need people who understand the consequences, who aren’t afraid or don’t care & who value the importance of doing the right thing over shinning up the greasy pole & arse-licking the boss. And if you are in an organisation & want to stay there while keeping your job, you need to be political & know how to win the necessary battles.
Those who do speak up either have licence to do it - it’s their job - and/or the personality. Or they can often be oddballs or difficult characters. Or they feel pushed into doing something.
It is well known which actors behave badly. And it is very sad when there is one whom you personally admire, about which you hear bad things.
On a positive note, I've never heard a bad word said about Tom Hanks.
I think you were calling me vile the other day....Casino is often no better, others often jump out with something nasty and personal....it's a reason why I often vacate this site
Each to his own but to be honest the things I have read and seen in the press turns my stomach these days and I find a lot of friends and acquaintances moving in the same direction (I am 70 and not a millennial before I am accused of being a snowflake).
Could a change here make it more likely that Mitt Romney or somebody else attempts a third party run?
https://ballot-access.org/2020/02/20/panel-of-judges-for-presidential-debates-case-is-now-known/
I think we're relegated
Unimaginable......
People tend to get used to things which they ought to be angry about. It's easier. And the more that people do this the more that even more people do it. End result is something that should cause outrage gets at best a shrug.
Trump.
It also helps if people at the top of an organisation understand that it's better overall for the organisation for things to be called out, and that those leaders therefore nurture a culture where whistleblowing is genuinely allowed and encouraged.
You don't like cruises or meat eating. I don't like rude, intolerant and small minded bigots.
If you're prepared to go on unprovoked nasty, ad hominem personal attacks against me and others here then I'm prepared to give as good as I get. You chose to come here and make rude and insult me. You started this.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/285563/socialism-atheism-political-liabilities.aspx
... More than nine in 10 Americans say they would vote for a presidential candidate nominated by their party who happened to be black, Catholic, Hispanic, Jewish or a woman. Such willingness drops to eight in 10 for candidates who are evangelical Christians or are gays or lesbians. Between six and seven in 10 would vote for someone who is under 40 years of age, over 70, a Muslim or an atheist.
Just one group tested -- socialists -- receives majority opposition. Less than half of Americans, 45%, say they would vote for a socialist for president, while 53% say they would not.
On the other hand, there is Trump.
Meat consumption is fairly stable, mild drop off in beef, but increase in poultry. We still love meat and plenty of it.
Too many people taking too much notice of loud people on twitter and other social media.
https://www.ft.com/content/815c9d62-14f4-11ea-9ee4-11f260415385
I think that Weinstein type behaviour is particularly likely in areas where patronage and recommendation are the system of preferment and career progression. Not just sexual harassment, but other forms of bullying too.
The performing arts have been like this since the year dot (hence the casting couch in Hollywood), but politics* and the law do not have clean records. It was true of medicine at one time, but national appointments by objective criteria have pretty much ended it.
*Indeed when we look at recent events in Scotland and in Westminster quite possibly politics is as bad as anywhere. All parties have been way too tolerant of this, including the Lib Dems.
Which perhaps explains why more of them think Sanders has the best chance against Trump:
https://morningconsult.com/2020/02/24/bernie-sanders-rising-post-nevada-polling/
But the upside is that it is forcing me to explore other staples, such as the pulses. Finding tons are delicious recipes for lentils, chickpeas and cannellini (white kidney) beans.
It might not be true. In which case I'm spreading scurrilous gossip about someone who may be blameless.
I don't really want to libel someone.
See, for instance, this - https://barry-walsh.co.uk/what-whistleblowers-really-want/.
Vegetarian, no problem - vegan, very hard to get all the required nutrients.
Am I wrong?
Still 7 wins from final 11 games needed to get the ton of points up. Who'd have thought two seasons ago that Man City's record could quickly be beaten?
Dietary vitamin D is a problem.
LADY BRACKNELL. I am glad to hear it. A man should always have an occupation of some kind....
NEW THREAD
Still, you give a perfect example of how other people rationalise - apparently perfectly reasonably - why they don’t speak up - even anonymously to someone trustworthy whose job it is to investigate allegations.
Lots of online and paper training was given at my bank about whistleblowing. But it was after I gave face to face talks to people about why it matters that I got most claims. People need to feel empowered to speak and need to feel that they can trust the person they’re confiding in. Hard to do just by publicising a procedure.
Can you help?