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  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,623
    ydoethur said:
    Ooh, an SNP civil war over a marginal seat selection.

    This is going to be like like watching the feminists and the trans activists having a discussion over Labour Party policy - something best done from as far away as possible!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Quincel said:

    I'm not the first to say this, but why does the market still have Sanders as almost evens?

    Because they can’t quite believe the Dems would be so fucking stupid as to pick a 79 year old Socialist with a heart condition who isn’t even a Dem to go up against a nutcase like Trump that they really, really need to beat?
    Indeed, hence the market that’s 11% under-round. Sanders should be at least a 65% chance rather than 52%.
    It’s @rottenborough i feel sorry for.

    Oh, and the rest of us at having the serious risk of four more years of this psychotic in the White House.
    Has US politics ever been in a worse state
    I offer 1860 - four candidates, two from one party. Ended in a civil war.

    I also offer 1805, when the Vice President murdered the former Secretary to the Treasury.

    Honourable mentions -1920, Harding (worst speaker ever) up against Cox (who lost by 26 points) and Debs (who was in prison for sedition at the time). Also 1968 - one assassination, one popular winner disallowed in favour of a party hack, one criminal elected and chaos breaking out everywhere, plus a major unwinnable war in Vietnam.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    Can anyone give (or link to) a non-libellous non-contempt-of-court summary of what's happening in Scottish politics? I know about the Salmond case, but have only vaguely heard some umours about Sturgeon, and there seems to be some factional rivalry in the SNP too. What's up?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    edited February 2020

    Can anyone give (or link to) a non-libellous non-contempt-of-court summary of what's happening in Scottish politics? I know about the Salmond case, but have only vaguely heard some umours about Sturgeon, and there seems to be some factional rivalry in the SNP too. What's up?
    For the benefit of OGH, can I hurriedly point out the answer to the question is ‘no?’
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    Perhaps the Democrats need a Corbyn 2019 style humiliation to begin the road back To sanity ?

    L
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,864
    Massive win for Sanders and really, is it not all over? I can't see any of the current field giving him a real challenge on Super Tuesday. Which leaves Bloomberg and his big money operation. I really can't think of anything that Sanders will be happier running against than a self indulgent and fairly rigid billionaire trying to buy the nomination. Its set up for him. By not winnowing the field more effectively the moderates have lost. Yet more self indulgence.

    So Sanders v Trump. My money is on Trump but I take Nick's point. I know diddly squat about what makes Americans vote the way they do.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Quincel said:

    I'm not the first to say this, but why does the market still have Sanders as almost evens?

    Because they can’t quite believe the Dems would be so fucking stupid as to pick a 79 year old Socialist with a heart condition who isn’t even a Dem to go up against a nutcase like Trump that they really, really need to beat?
    Indeed, hence the market that’s 11% under-round. Sanders should be at least a 65% chance rather than 52%.
    It’s @rottenborough i feel sorry for.

    Oh, and the rest of us at having the serious risk of four more years of this psychotic in the White House.
    Has US politics ever been in a worse state
    It’s no worse than the UK!
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    Can anyone give (or link to) a non-libellous non-contempt-of-court summary of what's happening in Scottish politics? I know about the Salmond case, but have only vaguely heard some umours about Sturgeon, and there seems to be some factional rivalry in the SNP too. What's up?
    Robertson is proxy Sturgeon, Cherry is Salmonite.

    Salmonites think Nicla is being too cautious re Indy ref 2.

    Neither wing gives a monkeys about the domestic agenda.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:



    If Sanders turns the election into a referendum on the American health care system, as well as corporate tax rates, he has a decent shot. Not fantastic, but it's a Michigan friendly pitch.

    If it becomes a referendum on his three houses and his praise for the Soviet system on his visit there in 1988, however...
    Do Americans resent someone having 3 houses? We were telling each other a few days ago that they didn't mind billionaires, and a few million will get you 3 nice rural places in the States. As for what he said in 1988 about the Soviet Union (which disappeared soon after), do voters under 50 care?
    Depends on whether he tells them they can’t have three houses as well.

    I don’t think anyone would have objected to Labour’s policies on private schools had not a large chunk of the Shadow Cabinet and a very high proportion of their children been privately educated.

    People don’t mind wealth and success nearly as much as they do hypocrisy.
    I think accusations of hypocrisy are a particularly British obsession, Americans are less bothered.

    Americans are rarely embarrassed by wealth, though do quite like a backstory of humble origins as that validates the idea of the American Dream.
    Whilst I was in the US I read an interesting book called ‘White Trash’ which, despite its tabloid-ish title, was actually a serious history book arguing that the image of settlers all claiming their acre of land and founding a classless, democratic society where any of them might make it to the top, which permeates the American dream, is almost entirely a myth.

    She (the professor author) looks at the white settlers that came over, many as indentured servants only marginally better off than slaves during their indenture, and the wealthy families mostly from Britain who instantly took up power and most of the land, and argues that American society was stratified into privilege and servitude from the very beginning. In later chapters she goes on to argue that social mobility within the US was and remains pretty limited,
  • nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Quincel said:

    I'm not the first to say this, but why does the market still have Sanders as almost evens?

    Because they can’t quite believe the Dems would be so fucking stupid as to pick a 79 year old Socialist with a heart condition who isn’t even a Dem to go up against a nutcase like Trump that they really, really need to beat?
    Indeed, hence the market that’s 11% under-round. Sanders should be at least a 65% chance rather than 52%.
    It’s @rottenborough i feel sorry for.

    Oh, and the rest of us at having the serious risk of four more years of this psychotic in the White House.
    Has US politics ever been in a worse state
    It’s no worse than the UK!
    That is plainly absurd
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:



    If Sanders turns the election into a referendum on the American health care system, as well as corporate tax rates, he has a decent shot. Not fantastic, but it's a Michigan friendly pitch.

    If it becomes a referendum on his three houses and his praise for the Soviet system on his visit there in 1988, however...
    Do Americans resent someone having 3 houses? We were telling each other a few days ago that they didn't mind billionaires, and a few million will get you 3 nice rural places in the States. As for what he said in 1988 about the Soviet Union (which disappeared soon after), do voters under 50 care?
    Depends on whether he tells them they can’t have three houses as well.

    I don’t think anyone would have objected to Labour’s policies on private schools had not a large chunk of the Shadow Cabinet and a very high proportion of their children been privately educated.

    People don’t mind wealth and success nearly as much as they do hypocrisy.
    I think accusations of hypocrisy are a particularly British obsession, Americans are less bothered.

    Americans are rarely embarrassed by wealth, though do quite like a backstory of humble origins as that validates the idea of the American Dream.
    Whilst I was in the US I read an interesting book called ‘White Trash’ which, despite its tabloid-ish title, was actually a serious history book arguing that the image of settlers all claiming their acre of land and founding a classless, democratic society where any of them might make it to the top, which permeates the American dream, is almost entirely a myth.

    She (the professor author) looks at the white settlers that came over, many as indentured servants only marginally better off than slaves during their indenture, and the wealthy families mostly from Britain who instantly took up power and most of the land, and argues that American society was stratified into privilege and servitude from the very beginning. In later chapters she goes on to argue that social mobility within the US was and remains pretty limited,
    Very interesting, particularly as the USA has such strong mythologising about its origins and destiny.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Interesting exchange with Warren:

    In Seattle, she addressed a crowd of around 7,000. A supporter asked her who she’d choose as a running mate if she were nominated.

    “I would be presumptuous at this moment to talk about it, but what I can do is describe,” she said. “That is, I want to partner in this fight. That’s it.”

    I know she was being asked who she'd like as her Number 2. But her response suggests she might be up for being VP herself. That would double down on the "change" message. But I think Sanders might be better off with Klobouchar, giving mid-West, moderate and gender balance.

    Most nominees prefer a boring VP. Especially after Cheney.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,230
    There is general agreement that Bernie as the nominee would make Trump’s reelection in November almost almost inevitable.

    Minority Report.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    Alistair said:

    Clearly I know fuck all about boxing.

    TBH, that's probably enough. Not a 'sport' I follow, either.
    Talking of sport, our young hopefuls Lawrence and Bracey have had a good Down Under so far - especially Lawrence.
    ydoethur said:

    Alistair said:

    Clearly I know fuck all about boxing.

    TBH, that's probably enough. Not a 'sport' I follow, either.
    Talking of sport, our young hopefuls Lawrence and Bracey have had a good Down Under so far - especially Lawrence.
    Debatable if rounders is a real sport
    Not debateable, Malc. Even I can play rounders, so it’s not a sport.

    Cricket, on the other hand...
    ydoethur , it is just rounders for adults, go on admit it.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:



    If Sanders turns the election into a referendum on the American health care system, as well as corporate tax rates, he has a decent shot. Not fantastic, but it's a Michigan friendly pitch.

    If it becomes a referendum on his three houses and his praise for the Soviet system on his visit there in 1988, however...
    Do Americans resent someone having 3 houses? We were telling each other a few days ago that they didn't mind billionaires, and a few million will get you 3 nice rural places in the States. As for what he said in 1988 about the Soviet Union (which disappeared soon after), do voters under 50 care?
    Depends on whether he tells them they can’t have three houses as well.

    I don’t think anyone would have objected to Labour’s policies on private schools had not a large chunk of the Shadow Cabinet and a very high proportion of their children been privately educated.

    People don’t mind wealth and success nearly as much as they do hypocrisy.
    I think accusations of hypocrisy are a particularly British obsession, Americans are less bothered.

    Americans are rarely embarrassed by wealth, though do quite like a backstory of humble origins as that validates the idea of the American Dream.
    Bernie's USP has always been authenticity. He's always spouted what he does now, and his supporters love his consistency. He's always railed against "millionaires and billionaires". It's been noticed by everyone that he dropped the "millionaires" part. As Bloomberg noted, their favorite socialist is a millionaire with 3 homes - or 2 and a 'summer camp'. It smacks of hypocrisy and being part of the swamp. It is certainly a negative, but unlikely to make much difference in his support.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359
    Alistair said:

    ydoethur said:
    Why are they fighting over Edinburgh Central. Surely Renfrewshire North and West would be a safer bet for one of them?
    Assuming the Green doesn't stand again Ed Central is a shoo in for the SNP.
    worst case they will be on the list anyway, crazy for Cherry just after being elected to Westminster. Looks like the two of them will be scrapping to be next leader for certain.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    Alistair said:

    Clearly I know fuck all about boxing.

    TBH, that's probably enough. Not a 'sport' I follow, either.
    Talking of sport, our young hopefuls Lawrence and Bracey have had a good Down Under so far - especially Lawrence.
    ydoethur said:

    Alistair said:

    Clearly I know fuck all about boxing.

    TBH, that's probably enough. Not a 'sport' I follow, either.
    Talking of sport, our young hopefuls Lawrence and Bracey have had a good Down Under so far - especially Lawrence.
    Debatable if rounders is a real sport
    Not debateable, Malc. Even I can play rounders, so it’s not a sport.

    Cricket, on the other hand...
    ydoethur , it is just rounders for adults, go on admit it.
    Nah, there are six stumps in cricket.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited February 2020

    Can anyone give (or link to) a non-libellous non-contempt-of-court summary of what's happening in Scottish politics? I know about the Salmond case, but have only vaguely heard some umours about Sturgeon, and there seems to be some factional rivalry in the SNP too. What's up?
    Cherry wants to be First Minister. She has identified opposing the GRA reform (a SNP manifesto commitment) as a wedge issue with which she can form a faction to build a power base to become FM.

    The SNP's stellar performance at the last Westminster General Election was a massive blow to her leadership campaign.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    ydoethur said:



    Has US politics ever been in a worse state

    I offer 1860 - four candidates, two from one party. Ended in a civil war.

    I also offer 1805, when the Vice President murdered the former Secretary to the Treasury.

    Honourable mentions -1920, Harding (worst speaker ever) up against Cox (who lost by 26 points) and Debs (who was in prison for sedition at the time). Also 1968 - one assassination, one popular winner disallowed in favour of a party hack, one criminal elected and chaos breaking out everywhere, plus a major unwinnable war in Vietnam.
    I think you win that exchange!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,230

    Interesting exchange with Warren:

    In Seattle, she addressed a crowd of around 7,000. A supporter asked her who she’d choose as a running mate if she were nominated.

    “I would be presumptuous at this moment to talk about it, but what I can do is describe,” she said. “That is, I want to partner in this fight. That’s it.”

    I know she was being asked who she'd like as her Number 2. But her response suggests she might be up for being VP herself. That would double down on the "change" message. But I think Sanders might be better off with Klobouchar, giving mid-West, moderate and gender balance.

    Stacy Abrams?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359
    ydoethur said:
    SNP has more talent on show just for selection in one seat than all the unionist parties can raise in total.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,484
    ydoethur said:
    They really are buggering it up aren't they? The iron party discipline is disintegrating. Eek.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:
    SNP has more talent on show just for selection in one seat than all the unionist parties can raise in total.
    In case you missed it yesterday, I did note that despite the SNP’s every effort to throw away their advantages Carlaw will simply not let them. He’ll find a way.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    Alistair said:

    Clearly I know fuck all about boxing.

    TBH, that's probably enough. Not a 'sport' I follow, either.
    Talking of sport, our young hopefuls Lawrence and Bracey have had a good Down Under so far - especially Lawrence.
    ydoethur said:

    Alistair said:

    Clearly I know fuck all about boxing.

    TBH, that's probably enough. Not a 'sport' I follow, either.
    Talking of sport, our young hopefuls Lawrence and Bracey have had a good Down Under so far - especially Lawrence.
    Debatable if rounders is a real sport
    Not debateable, Malc. Even I can play rounders, so it’s not a sport.

    Cricket, on the other hand...
    ydoethur , it is just rounders for adults, go on admit it.
    You're talking about baseball..
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,864

    Can anyone give (or link to) a non-libellous non-contempt-of-court summary of what's happening in Scottish politics? I know about the Salmond case, but have only vaguely heard some umours about Sturgeon, and there seems to be some factional rivalry in the SNP too. What's up?
    There have been rumours for some time that Nicola was looking for an international exit but not finding one. The SNP are split between those that want a referendum right now and those who want to do things properly with Westminster consent. The latter also recognise that right now might not be the best time and want a better indication than the polls are giving that a second referendum might pass.

    Nicola leads the second group but Boris's blunt responses are making her look weak. When you add in the speculation about the possible fall out of the trial possible leadership candidates are desperate to get into Holyrood. This is likely to result in a serious competition for Ruth's seat between Robertson (the wait candidate) and Cherry (a let's go candidate). Of course there may not be a vacancy. There is no reason why Ruth should stand down unless she not only went the House of Lords but also took a government post. That's possible but far from certain.

    A further frisson has been added to all this by the departure of Derek Mackay. He was the obvious heir apparent and would have been very hard to stop if a vacancy had occurred. His departure leaves no obvious or strong candidate in the Parliament. It has stepped up the urgency for both wings.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1231503965994438657

    With 2 parties having an interregnum, the Tories seem to be the beneficiaries.

    LibDems have lost 1 in 4 of their voters at the General Election. Quite some personal vote Prime Minister Jo Swinson had.....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:



    If Sanders turns the election into a referendum on the American health care system, as well as corporate tax rates, he has a decent shot. Not fantastic, but it's a Michigan friendly pitch.

    If it becomes a referendum on his three houses and his praise for the Soviet system on his visit there in 1988, however...
    Do Americans resent someone having 3 houses? We were telling each other a few days ago that they didn't mind billionaires, and a few million will get you 3 nice rural places in the States. As for what he said in 1988 about the Soviet Union (which disappeared soon after), do voters under 50 care?
    Depends on whether he tells them they can’t have three houses as well.

    I don’t think anyone would have objected to Labour’s policies on private schools had not a large chunk of the Shadow Cabinet and a very high proportion of their children been privately educated.

    People don’t mind wealth and success nearly as much as they do hypocrisy.
    I think accusations of hypocrisy are a particularly British obsession, Americans are less bothered.

    Americans are rarely embarrassed by wealth, though do quite like a backstory of humble origins as that validates the idea of the American Dream.
    Whilst I was in the US I read an interesting book called ‘White Trash’ which, despite its tabloid-ish title, was actually a serious history book arguing that the image of settlers all claiming their acre of land and founding a classless, democratic society where any of them might make it to the top, which permeates the American dream, is almost entirely a myth.

    She (the professor author) looks at the white settlers that came over, many as indentured servants only marginally better off than slaves during their indenture, and the wealthy families mostly from Britain who instantly took up power and most of the land, and argues that American society was stratified into privilege and servitude from the very beginning. In later chapters she goes on to argue that social mobility within the US was and remains pretty limited,
    Oh, I agree that the American Dream is substantially a myth and that social mobility in the USA can be worse even than the UK. It is a particularly strong US myth though, so cannot be ignored.

    Despite what the SPADs and Mekon in number 10 thinks, inheriting wealth is a much better at predicting success in life than IQ.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    DavidL said:

    Can anyone give (or link to) a non-libellous non-contempt-of-court summary of what's happening in Scottish politics? I know about the Salmond case, but have only vaguely heard some umours about Sturgeon, and there seems to be some factional rivalry in the SNP too. What's up?
    There have been rumours for some time that Nicola was looking for an international exit but not finding one.
    Johnson keeps blocking it...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,230

    A delicate point - could it be that PB collectively isn't very good at current US politics? There has been something of a consensus on here successively that Buttigieg, Warren and Klobouchar were value, and they're all going down in flames. Conversely, because of our UK bias we tend to think Sanders=Corbyn=defeat, and US politics is subtly different to the UK. US voters don't seem to mind elderly politicians (the issue is barely coming up) and despite months of Sanders being labelled as a crazy commie, he actually performs slightly better than most of the others in polls vs Trump.

    I worry on his behalf too about the impact of full-fat Trump assault on him if he's the nominee. But it's possible that (a) ANY Democrat will struggle vs Trump and (b) Sanders' macho working-class appeal (he does best among men and among less-educated voters) is what's needed to take on Trump, rather than the more elegant appeal of, say, Buttigieg.

    I think Sanders does need good advice on tempering his health care plan to make it clear that he won't scrap private plans until Medicare for All is in place (which frankly might be never if Congress doesn't change radically), but reports from Nevada (where the issue featured in a big way with a prominent union defending their private plan) suggest that people aren't impressed with the cost and limitations of their private health care, so it may not be the killer argument tat we suppose.

    Well done, Nick. I try on this - I bust a gut - but people are far more likely to listen to you. Although TBH I rather want the consensus that Trump inevitably hammers Bernie to stay in place. All the better for betting and superforecasting against it. More profits. More kudos.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,228
    kinabalu said:

    Interesting exchange with Warren:

    In Seattle, she addressed a crowd of around 7,000. A supporter asked her who she’d choose as a running mate if she were nominated.

    “I would be presumptuous at this moment to talk about it, but what I can do is describe,” she said. “That is, I want to partner in this fight. That’s it.”

    I know she was being asked who she'd like as her Number 2. But her response suggests she might be up for being VP herself. That would double down on the "change" message. But I think Sanders might be better off with Klobouchar, giving mid-West, moderate and gender balance.

    Stacy Abrams?
    That would seem massively more likely than Kolbuchar...
    I am not a pundit, but what I do know (is this), I am the only one on the debate stage when asked, 'Do you have a problem with a socialist leading the Democratic ticket?' ... (that said) 'Yes.' ...
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359
    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:
    Ooh, an SNP civil war over a marginal seat selection.

    This is going to be like like watching the feminists and the trans activists having a discussion over Labour Party policy - something best done from as far away as possible!
    It is called competition , where do you get "civil war" from. Luckily the SNP have so much talent it is unlike the Westminster parties in not having to put up any old donkey or lickspittle chum they can drag of the streets.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    DavidL said:

    Can anyone give (or link to) a non-libellous non-contempt-of-court summary of what's happening in Scottish politics? I know about the Salmond case, but have only vaguely heard some umours about Sturgeon, and there seems to be some factional rivalry in the SNP too. What's up?
    There have been rumours for some time that Nicola was looking for an international exit but not finding one. The SNP are split between those that want a referendum right now and those who want to do things properly with Westminster consent. The latter also recognise that right now might not be the best time and want a better indication than the polls are giving that a second referendum might pass.

    Nicola leads the second group but Boris's blunt responses are making her look weak. When you add in the speculation about the possible fall out of the trial possible leadership candidates are desperate to get into Holyrood. This is likely to result in a serious competition for Ruth's seat between Robertson (the wait candidate) and Cherry (a let's go candidate). Of course there may not be a vacancy. There is no reason why Ruth should stand down unless she not only went the House of Lords but also took a government post. That's possible but far from certain.

    A further frisson has been added to all this by the departure of Derek Mackay. He was the obvious heir apparent and would have been very hard to stop if a vacancy had occurred. His departure leaves no obvious or strong candidate in the Parliament. It has stepped up the urgency for both wings.
    That is a top quality summary, David.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    DavidL said:

    Can anyone give (or link to) a non-libellous non-contempt-of-court summary of what's happening in Scottish politics? I know about the Salmond case, but have only vaguely heard some umours about Sturgeon, and there seems to be some factional rivalry in the SNP too. What's up?
    Nicola leads the second group but Boris's blunt responses are making her look weak. When you add in the speculation about the possible fall out of the trial possible leadership candidates are desperate to get into Holyrood. This is likely to result in a serious competition for Ruth's seat between Robertson (the wait candidate) and Cherry (a let's go candidate). Of course there may not be a vacancy. There is no reason why Ruth should stand down unless she not only went the House of Lords but also took a government post. That's possible but far from certain.

    .
    .

    I thought Ruth had said she was standing down?
    But also she only won the seat by the skin of her teeth with a Green standing who won thousands of votes so she hardly has a lock on the seat.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Quincel said:

    I'm not the first to say this, but why does the market still have Sanders as almost evens?

    Because they can’t quite believe the Dems would be so fucking stupid as to pick a 79 year old Socialist with a heart condition who isn’t even a Dem to go up against a nutcase like Trump that they really, really need to beat?
    Indeed, hence the market that’s 11% under-round. Sanders should be at least a 65% chance rather than 52%.
    It’s @rottenborough i feel sorry for.

    Oh, and the rest of us at having the serious risk of four more years of this psychotic in the White House.
    Has US politics ever been in a worse state
    It’s no worse than the UK!
    That is plainly absurd
    Is it?

    https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status/1231491268309549056?s=09
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359

    Can anyone give (or link to) a non-libellous non-contempt-of-court summary of what's happening in Scottish politics? I know about the Salmond case, but have only vaguely heard some umours about Sturgeon, and there seems to be some factional rivalry in the SNP too. What's up?
    Nick, all just sad unionist losers innuendo. Unlike the Westminster parties differences of opinions are allowed in SNP, it is not run as a dictatorship with you getting your jotters if you do not slavishly follow the turnip in charge. Basically unionists are fuming that the SNP keep getting more popular and people are not believing the lies from the unionist duffers and their tame MSM any more.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,864
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Can anyone give (or link to) a non-libellous non-contempt-of-court summary of what's happening in Scottish politics? I know about the Salmond case, but have only vaguely heard some umours about Sturgeon, and there seems to be some factional rivalry in the SNP too. What's up?
    There have been rumours for some time that Nicola was looking for an international exit but not finding one.
    Johnson keeps blocking it...
    The most obvious route was the EU. He certainly blocked that.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359
    ydoethur said:

    Can anyone give (or link to) a non-libellous non-contempt-of-court summary of what's happening in Scottish politics? I know about the Salmond case, but have only vaguely heard some umours about Sturgeon, and there seems to be some factional rivalry in the SNP too. What's up?
    For the benefit of OGH, can I hurriedly point out the answer to the question is ‘no?’
    pm a libellous one please, I have yet to see anything
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Quincel said:

    I'm not the first to say this, but why does the market still have Sanders as almost evens?

    Because they can’t quite believe the Dems would be so fucking stupid as to pick a 79 year old Socialist with a heart condition who isn’t even a Dem to go up against a nutcase like Trump that they really, really need to beat?
    Indeed, hence the market that’s 11% under-round. Sanders should be at least a 65% chance rather than 52%.
    It’s @rottenborough i feel sorry for.

    Oh, and the rest of us at having the serious risk of four more years of this psychotic in the White House.
    Has US politics ever been in a worse state
    It’s no worse than the UK!
    That is plainly absurd
    Johnson = Trump
    Labour = Sanders
    So not absurd unless one is a fawning disciple of Johnson.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    Foxy said:

    nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Quincel said:

    I'm not the first to say this, but why does the market still have Sanders as almost evens?

    Because they can’t quite believe the Dems would be so fucking stupid as to pick a 79 year old Socialist with a heart condition who isn’t even a Dem to go up against a nutcase like Trump that they really, really need to beat?
    Indeed, hence the market that’s 11% under-round. Sanders should be at least a 65% chance rather than 52%.
    It’s @rottenborough i feel sorry for.

    Oh, and the rest of us at having the serious risk of four more years of this psychotic in the White House.
    Has US politics ever been in a worse state
    It’s no worse than the UK!
    That is plainly absurd
    Is it?

    https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status/1231491268309549056?s=09
    Why’s that astonishing? They wouldn’t be showing much intelligence if they trusted a woman who was sacked from the cabinet for lying, now would they?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359
    nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Quincel said:

    I'm not the first to say this, but why does the market still have Sanders as almost evens?

    Because they can’t quite believe the Dems would be so fucking stupid as to pick a 79 year old Socialist with a heart condition who isn’t even a Dem to go up against a nutcase like Trump that they really, really need to beat?
    Indeed, hence the market that’s 11% under-round. Sanders should be at least a 65% chance rather than 52%.
    It’s @rottenborough i feel sorry for.

    Oh, and the rest of us at having the serious risk of four more years of this psychotic in the White House.
    Has US politics ever been in a worse state
    It’s no worse than the UK!
    It is not that bad for sure
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,484
    malcolmg said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:
    Ooh, an SNP civil war over a marginal seat selection.

    This is going to be like like watching the feminists and the trans activists having a discussion over Labour Party policy - something best done from as far away as possible!
    It is called competition , where do you get "civil war" from. Luckily the SNP have so much talent it is unlike the Westminster parties in not having to put up any old donkey or lickspittle chum they can drag of the streets.
    Which candidate do you favour Malc?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,230
    Nigelb said:

    That would seem massively more likely than Kolbuchar...
    I am not a pundit, but what I do know (is this), I am the only one on the debate stage when asked, 'Do you have a problem with a socialist leading the Democratic ticket?' ... (that said) 'Yes.' ...

    I'm on Abrams at 10. Fun bet only though. Just a few quid. You want to balance the ticket but also be sympatico with your running mate.

    Hey, you're not one of these "Trump crushes Sanders because Johnson crushed Corbyn" merchants, are you? Please say you aren't.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:
    SNP has more talent on show just for selection in one seat than all the unionist parties can raise in total.
    In case you missed it yesterday, I did note that despite the SNP’s every effort to throw away their advantages Carlaw will simply not let them. He’ll find a way.
    Carcrash was a great choice for the talentless Scottish sub regional office Tories. That anyone could think that clown could ever be FM is just amazing, the idiot could not run a bath.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,228
    kinabalu said:

    A delicate point - could it be that PB collectively isn't very good at current US politics? There has been something of a consensus on here successively that Buttigieg, Warren and Klobouchar were value, and they're all going down in flames. Conversely, because of our UK bias we tend to think Sanders=Corbyn=defeat, and US politics is subtly different to the UK. US voters don't seem to mind elderly politicians (the issue is barely coming up) and despite months of Sanders being labelled as a crazy commie, he actually performs slightly better than most of the others in polls vs Trump.

    I worry on his behalf too about the impact of full-fat Trump assault on him if he's the nominee. But it's possible that (a) ANY Democrat will struggle vs Trump and (b) Sanders' macho working-class appeal (he does best among men and among less-educated voters) is what's needed to take on Trump, rather than the more elegant appeal of, say, Buttigieg.

    I think Sanders does need good advice on tempering his health care plan to make it clear that he won't scrap private plans until Medicare for All is in place (which frankly might be never if Congress doesn't change radically), but reports from Nevada (where the issue featured in a big way with a prominent union defending their private plan) suggest that people aren't impressed with the cost and limitations of their private health care, so it may not be the killer argument tat we suppose.

    Well done, Nick. I try on this - I bust a gut - but people are far more likely to listen to you. Although TBH I rather want the consensus that Trump inevitably hammers Bernie to stay in place. All the better for betting and superforecasting against it. More profits. More kudos.
    I don’t think anything is inevitable (and I put money on Sanders for President last night, as the odds provide value); I just think Sanders gives Trump a better chance. And just as importantly, gives the Republicans a significantly better chance of holding the Senate.

    As for Nick’s critique, I’d note that @rcs1000 , among others, said Sanders ought to favourite well before Nevada - and the value some of us have seen has been genuine value, as long odds have provided excellent trading opportunities.
    On the larger point, he is not wrong, though.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,864
    Alistair said:

    DavidL said:

    Can anyone give (or link to) a non-libellous non-contempt-of-court summary of what's happening in Scottish politics? I know about the Salmond case, but have only vaguely heard some umours about Sturgeon, and there seems to be some factional rivalry in the SNP too. What's up?
    Nicola leads the second group but Boris's blunt responses are making her look weak. When you add in the speculation about the possible fall out of the trial possible leadership candidates are desperate to get into Holyrood. This is likely to result in a serious competition for Ruth's seat between Robertson (the wait candidate) and Cherry (a let's go candidate). Of course there may not be a vacancy. There is no reason why Ruth should stand down unless she not only went the House of Lords but also took a government post. That's possible but far from certain.

    .
    .

    I thought Ruth had said she was standing down?
    But also she only won the seat by the skin of her teeth with a Green standing who won thousands of votes so she hardly has a lock on the seat.
    She has said that she was standing down at the next election, not imminently. If Boris appoints her to the Lords she has a good precedent in Salmond who was an MP and MSP at the same time (twice, as I recall). If, however, she was appointed Scottish Secretary I think there would be a bye election. And I agree that her's was a remarkable and unexpected win. The Tories would not be favourites to keep the seat.
  • nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Quincel said:

    I'm not the first to say this, but why does the market still have Sanders as almost evens?

    Because they can’t quite believe the Dems would be so fucking stupid as to pick a 79 year old Socialist with a heart condition who isn’t even a Dem to go up against a nutcase like Trump that they really, really need to beat?
    Indeed, hence the market that’s 11% under-round. Sanders should be at least a 65% chance rather than 52%.
    It’s @rottenborough i feel sorry for.

    Oh, and the rest of us at having the serious risk of four more years of this psychotic in the White House.
    Has US politics ever been in a worse state
    It’s no worse than the UK!
    That is plainly absurd
    Johnson = Trump
    Labour = Sanders
    So not absurd unless one is a fawning disciple of Johnson.
    Bitter remainers trying to paint Boris as Trump is all they have left
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    kinabalu said:

    Amazing win for Our Hero in Nevada!

    And as if that were not news enough, Tyson Fury, the Gypsy King - best performance by a British boxer ever?

    What would be your top five performances by British boxers?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    edited February 2020

    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Quincel said:

    I'm not the first to say this, but why does the market still have Sanders as almost evens?

    Because they can’t quite believe the Dems would be so fucking stupid as to pick a 79 year old Socialist with a heart condition who isn’t even a Dem to go up against a nutcase like Trump that they really, really need to beat?
    Indeed, hence the market that’s 11% under-round. Sanders should be at least a 65% chance rather than 52%.
    It’s @rottenborough i feel sorry for.

    Oh, and the rest of us at having the serious risk of four more years of this psychotic in the White House.
    Has US politics ever been in a worse state
    It’s no worse than the UK!
    That is plainly absurd
    Johnson = Trump
    Labour = Sanders
    So not absurd unless one is a fawning disciple of Johnson.
    Bitter remainers trying to paint Boris as Trump is all they have left
    Is Trump a bitter remainer?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-49090804/trump-on-johnson-they-call-him-britain-trump
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,228

    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Quincel said:

    I'm not the first to say this, but why does the market still have Sanders as almost evens?

    Because they can’t quite believe the Dems would be so fucking stupid as to pick a 79 year old Socialist with a heart condition who isn’t even a Dem to go up against a nutcase like Trump that they really, really need to beat?
    Indeed, hence the market that’s 11% under-round. Sanders should be at least a 65% chance rather than 52%.
    It’s @rottenborough i feel sorry for.

    Oh, and the rest of us at having the serious risk of four more years of this psychotic in the White House.
    Has US politics ever been in a worse state
    It’s no worse than the UK!
    That is plainly absurd
    Johnson = Trump
    Labour = Sanders
    So not absurd unless one is a fawning disciple of Johnson.
    Bitter remainers trying to paint Boris as Trump is all they have left
    One might hear similar sentiments from Trump supporters... :smile:
  • ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Quincel said:

    I'm not the first to say this, but why does the market still have Sanders as almost evens?

    Because they can’t quite believe the Dems would be so fucking stupid as to pick a 79 year old Socialist with a heart condition who isn’t even a Dem to go up against a nutcase like Trump that they really, really need to beat?
    Indeed, hence the market that’s 11% under-round. Sanders should be at least a 65% chance rather than 52%.
    It’s @rottenborough i feel sorry for.

    Oh, and the rest of us at having the serious risk of four more years of this psychotic in the White House.
    :lol: Many thanks for your concern. I am as red on Sanders as a very red thing.

    Looks like I am going to take a beating. Just can't believe Dems are this stupid.

    I am beginning to wonder whether USA is having a massive collective breakdown.
  • Foxy said:

    nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Quincel said:

    I'm not the first to say this, but why does the market still have Sanders as almost evens?

    Because they can’t quite believe the Dems would be so fucking stupid as to pick a 79 year old Socialist with a heart condition who isn’t even a Dem to go up against a nutcase like Trump that they really, really need to beat?
    Indeed, hence the market that’s 11% under-round. Sanders should be at least a 65% chance rather than 52%.
    It’s @rottenborough i feel sorry for.

    Oh, and the rest of us at having the serious risk of four more years of this psychotic in the White House.
    Has US politics ever been in a worse state
    It’s no worse than the UK!
    That is plainly absurd
    Is it?

    https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status/1231491268309549056?s=09
    That was discussed on Marr this morning and Marr himself said it was a good idea
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359
    edited February 2020
    DavidL said:

    Can anyone give (or link to) a non-libellous non-contempt-of-court summary of what's happening in Scottish politics? I know about the Salmond case, but have only vaguely heard some umours about Sturgeon, and there seems to be some factional rivalry in the SNP too. What's up?
    There have been rumours for some time that Nicola was looking for an international exit but not finding one. The SNP are split between those that want a referendum right now and those who want to do things properly with Westminster consent. The latter also recognise that right now might not be the best time and want a better indication than the polls are giving that a second referendum might pass.

    Nicola leads the second group but Boris's blunt responses are making her look weak. When you add in the speculation about the possible fall out of the trial possible leadership candidates are desperate to get into Holyrood. This is likely to result in a serious competition for Ruth's seat between Robertson (the wait candidate) and Cherry (a let's go candidate). Of course there may not be a vacancy. There is no reason why Ruth should stand down unless she not only went the House of Lords but also took a government post. That's possible but far from certain.

    A further frisson has been added to all this by the departure of Derek Mackay. He was the obvious heir apparent and would have been very hard to stop if a vacancy had occurred. His departure leaves no obvious or strong candidate in the Parliament. It has stepped up the urgency for both wings.
    David, Mackay was always a lightweight, how he ever got to where he was is a mystery. He was never ever going to be leader in a month of Sundays for many reasons including serious lack of talent and charisma.
    PS: Robertson is the next leader as long as he does not just show himself as a clone of Sturgeon. He has far more talent but people are getting fed up and beginning to think current leadership are getting fat and happy with the current status quo.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    DavidL said:

    Alistair said:

    DavidL said:

    Can anyone give (or link to) a non-libellous non-contempt-of-court summary of what's happening in Scottish politics? I know about the Salmond case, but have only vaguely heard some umours about Sturgeon, and there seems to be some factional rivalry in the SNP too. What's up?
    Nicola leads the second group but Boris's blunt responses are making her look weak. When you add in the speculation about the possible fall out of the trial possible leadership candidates are desperate to get into Holyrood. This is likely to result in a serious competition for Ruth's seat between Robertson (the wait candidate) and Cherry (a let's go candidate). Of course there may not be a vacancy. There is no reason why Ruth should stand down unless she not only went the House of Lords but also took a government post. That's possible but far from certain.

    .
    .

    I thought Ruth had said she was standing down?
    But also she only won the seat by the skin of her teeth with a Green standing who won thousands of votes so she hardly has a lock on the seat.
    She has said that she was standing down at the next election, not imminently. If Boris appoints her to the Lords she has a good precedent in Salmond who was an MP and MSP at the same time (twice, as I recall). If, however, she was appointed Scottish Secretary I think there would be a bye election. And I agree that her's was a remarkable and unexpected win. The Tories would not be favourites to keep the seat.
    Given the next election is little more than a year away its six of one and half a dozen of another to me as to when the vacancy occurs.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    A delicate point - could it be that PB collectively isn't very good at current US politics? There has been something of a consensus on here successively that Buttigieg, Warren and Klobouchar were value, and they're all going down in flames. Conversely, because of our UK bias we tend to think Sanders=Corbyn=defeat, and US politics is subtly different to the UK. US voters don't seem to mind elderly politicians (the issue is barely coming up) and despite months of Sanders being labelled as a crazy commie, he actually performs slightly better than most of the others in polls vs Trump.

    I worry on his behalf too about the impact of full-fat Trump assault on him if he's the nominee. But it's possible that (a) ANY Democrat will struggle vs Trump and (b) Sanders' macho working-class appeal (he does best among men and among less-educated voters) is what's needed to take on Trump, rather than the more elegant appeal of, say, Buttigieg.

    I think Sanders does need good advice on tempering his health care plan to make it clear that he won't scrap private plans until Medicare for All is in place (which frankly might be never if Congress doesn't change radically), but reports from Nevada (where the issue featured in a big way with a prominent union defending their private plan) suggest that people aren't impressed with the cost and limitations of their private health care, so it may not be the killer argument tat we suppose.

    Unfortunately Sanders is going to get trounced like Corbyn but people such as your good self won't see it till it is too late so we will end up with Johnson and Trump.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    England Lions doing very well here. Australia A four down with 201 needed to save the follow on.

    I am sure that Henriques will score a century just to frustrate us, but it’s nice while it lasts.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    edited February 2020
    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:
    SNP has more talent on show just for selection in one seat than all the unionist parties can raise in total.
    The ex MP loser who knew about Salmond but was too loyal to report vs the female lawyer who is outraged he has even been charged.

    They certainly have a talent for something..
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Foxy said:

    nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Quincel said:

    I'm not the first to say this, but why does the market still have Sanders as almost evens?

    Because they can’t quite believe the Dems would be so fucking stupid as to pick a 79 year old Socialist with a heart condition who isn’t even a Dem to go up against a nutcase like Trump that they really, really need to beat?
    Indeed, hence the market that’s 11% under-round. Sanders should be at least a 65% chance rather than 52%.
    It’s @rottenborough i feel sorry for.

    Oh, and the rest of us at having the serious risk of four more years of this psychotic in the White House.
    Has US politics ever been in a worse state
    It’s no worse than the UK!
    That is plainly absurd
    Is it?

    https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status/1231491268309549056?s=09
    That was discussed on Marr this morning and Marr himself said it was a good idea
    That the security services do not trust the Home Sec?

    I suspect not the only one at the heart of government who cannot be trusted with official intelligence.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359

    ydoethur said:
    They really are buggering it up aren't they? The iron party discipline is disintegrating. Eek.
    Yes they are really struggling , 48 out of 59 MP's, polls showing over 50% support for upcoming Holyrood elections and another landslide , and they are doing it deliberately.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    I wonder what excuses the AJ camp will come up with to avoid fighting Fury.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Quincel said:

    I'm not the first to say this, but why does the market still have Sanders as almost evens?

    Because they can’t quite believe the Dems would be so fucking stupid as to pick a 79 year old Socialist with a heart condition who isn’t even a Dem to go up against a nutcase like Trump that they really, really need to beat?
    Indeed, hence the market that’s 11% under-round. Sanders should be at least a 65% chance rather than 52%.
    It’s @rottenborough i feel sorry for.

    Oh, and the rest of us at having the serious risk of four more years of this psychotic in the White House.
    Has US politics ever been in a worse state
    It’s no worse than the UK!
    That is plainly absurd
    Is it?

    https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status/1231491268309549056?s=09
    That was discussed on Marr this morning and Marr himself said it was a good idea
    That the security services do not trust the Home Sec?

    I suspect not the only one at the heart of government who cannot be trusted with official intelligence.
    Dominic Cummings was never entrusted with intelligence either, right from birth.

    I have an organ to play with. Have a good morning.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,864
    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Can anyone give (or link to) a non-libellous non-contempt-of-court summary of what's happening in Scottish politics? I know about the Salmond case, but have only vaguely heard some umours about Sturgeon, and there seems to be some factional rivalry in the SNP too. What's up?
    There have been rumours for some time that Nicola was looking for an international exit but not finding one. The SNP are split between those that want a referendum right now and those who want to do things properly with Westminster consent. The latter also recognise that right now might not be the best time and want a better indication than the polls are giving that a second referendum might pass.

    Nicola leads the second group but Boris's blunt responses are making her look weak. When you add in the speculation about the possible fall out of the trial possible leadership candidates are desperate to get into Holyrood. This is likely to result in a serious competition for Ruth's seat between Robertson (the wait candidate) and Cherry (a let's go candidate). Of course there may not be a vacancy. There is no reason why Ruth should stand down unless she not only went the House of Lords but also took a government post. That's possible but far from certain.

    A further frisson has been added to all this by the departure of Derek Mackay. He was the obvious heir apparent and would have been very hard to stop if a vacancy had occurred. His departure leaves no obvious or strong candidate in the Parliament. It has stepped up the urgency for both wings.
    David, Mackay was always a lightweight, how he ever got to where he was is a mystery. He was never ever going to be leader in a month of Sundays for many reasons including serious lack of talent and charisma.
    I agree about his lack of talent but he was the man in position, in the Parliament, Financial Secretary and apparently Nicola's chosen one.

    The fact he rose so high rather undermines your argument about the SNP having an excess of talent. They are actually stronger in Westminster and Robertson is highly competent but the current Scottish government is just embarrassingly inept. As is the opposition in fairness. Scotland is very poorly governed with no obvious alternative. It's a problem.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Quincel said:

    I'm not the first to say this, but why does the market still have Sanders as almost evens?

    Because they can’t quite believe the Dems would be so fucking stupid as to pick a 79 year old Socialist with a heart condition who isn’t even a Dem to go up against a nutcase like Trump that they really, really need to beat?
    Indeed, hence the market that’s 11% under-round. Sanders should be at least a 65% chance rather than 52%.
    It’s @rottenborough i feel sorry for.

    Oh, and the rest of us at having the serious risk of four more years of this psychotic in the White House.
    Has US politics ever been in a worse state
    It’s no worse than the UK!
    That is plainly absurd
    Johnson = Trump
    Labour = Sanders
    So not absurd unless one is a fawning disciple of Johnson.
    Bitter remainers trying to paint Boris as Trump is all they have left
    It’s nothing to do with remain or leave it’s taking a cold detached look at the individuals involved who share many character traits and political tactics.
  • kinabalu said:

    A delicate point - could it be that PB collectively isn't very good at current US politics? There has been something of a consensus on here successively that Buttigieg, Warren and Klobouchar were value, and they're all going down in flames. Conversely, because of our UK bias we tend to think Sanders=Corbyn=defeat, and US politics is subtly different to the UK. US voters don't seem to mind elderly politicians (the issue is barely coming up) and despite months of Sanders being labelled as a crazy commie, he actually performs slightly better than most of the others in polls vs Trump.

    I worry on his behalf too about the impact of full-fat Trump assault on him if he's the nominee. But it's possible that (a) ANY Democrat will struggle vs Trump and (b) Sanders' macho working-class appeal (he does best among men and among less-educated voters) is what's needed to take on Trump, rather than the more elegant appeal of, say, Buttigieg.

    I think Sanders does need good advice on tempering his health care plan to make it clear that he won't scrap private plans until Medicare for All is in place (which frankly might be never if Congress doesn't change radically), but reports from Nevada (where the issue featured in a big way with a prominent union defending their private plan) suggest that people aren't impressed with the cost and limitations of their private health care, so it may not be the killer argument tat we suppose.

    Well done, Nick. I try on this - I bust a gut - but people are far more likely to listen to you. Although TBH I rather want the consensus that Trump inevitably hammers Bernie to stay in place. All the better for betting and superforecasting against it. More profits. More kudos.
    Buttigieg has been value. He had almost no chance a few months ago. Now he is second in delegates.
  • malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Can anyone give (or link to) a non-libellous non-contempt-of-court summary of what's happening in Scottish politics? I know about the Salmond case, but have only vaguely heard some umours about Sturgeon, and there seems to be some factional rivalry in the SNP too. What's up?
    There have been rumours for some time that Nicola was looking for an international exit but not finding one. The SNP are split between those that want a referendum right now and those who want to do things properly with Westminster consent. The latter also recognise that right now might not be the best time and want a better indication than the polls are giving that a second referendum might pass.

    Nicola leads the second group but Boris's blunt responses are making her look weak. When you add in the speculation about the possible fall out of the trial possible leadership candidates are desperate to get into Holyrood. This is likely to result in a serious competition for Ruth's seat between Robertson (the wait candidate) and Cherry (a let's go candidate). Of course there may not be a vacancy. There is no reason why Ruth should stand down unless she not only went the House of Lords but also took a government post. That's possible but far from certain.

    A further frisson has been added to all this by the departure of Derek Mackay. He was the obvious heir apparent and would have been very hard to stop if a vacancy had occurred. His departure leaves no obvious or strong candidate in the Parliament. It has stepped up the urgency for both wings.
    David, Mackay was always a lightweight, how he ever got to where he was is a mystery. He was never ever going to be leader in a month of Sundays for many reasons including serious lack of talent and charisma.
    PS: Robertson is the next leader as long as he does not just show himself as a clone of Sturgeon. He has far more talent but people are getting fed up and beginning to think current leadership are getting fat and happy with the current status quo.
    Maybe they should do their day job which they are failing at rather than internal fighting over power bases

    The next month looks like a shambles for the SNP and will Nicola survive
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:
    They really are buggering it up aren't they? The iron party discipline is disintegrating. Eek.
    Yes they are really struggling , 48 out of 59 MP's, polls showing over 50% support for upcoming Holyrood elections and another landslide , and they are doing it deliberately.
    Is Angus trying to get back as an MSP to give the SNP options when they need to replace Sturgeon.

    Otherwise this makes little sense...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    ydoethur said:

    England Lions doing very well here. Australia A four down with 201 needed to save the follow on.

    I am sure that Henriques will score a century just to frustrate us, but it’s nice while it lasts.

    But before I go - Henriques out. I’ve still got it.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359
    Alistair said:

    DavidL said:

    Can anyone give (or link to) a non-libellous non-contempt-of-court summary of what's happening in Scottish politics? I know about the Salmond case, but have only vaguely heard some umours about Sturgeon, and there seems to be some factional rivalry in the SNP too. What's up?
    Nicola leads the second group but Boris's blunt responses are making her look weak. When you add in the speculation about the possible fall out of the trial possible leadership candidates are desperate to get into Holyrood. This is likely to result in a serious competition for Ruth's seat between Robertson (the wait candidate) and Cherry (a let's go candidate). Of course there may not be a vacancy. There is no reason why Ruth should stand down unless she not only went the House of Lords but also took a government post. That's possible but far from certain.

    .
    .

    I thought Ruth had said she was standing down?
    But also she only won the seat by the skin of her teeth with a Green standing who won thousands of votes so she hardly has a lock on the seat.
    She will not embarrass herself by being trounced, it will be the easy lucrative option via the arse lickers route to HoL for her. No need for scrutiny by electorate, she will use old boy network.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,230
    edited February 2020
    TOPPING said:

    What would be your top five performances by British boxers?

    Tricky. I like the sport but don't follow it closely. I thought Bugner in Kuala Lumpur was underrated - but no way a top 5.

    You better tell me what they are.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,228
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    England Lions doing very well here. Australia A four down with 201 needed to save the follow on.

    I am sure that Henriques will score a century just to frustrate us, but it’s nice while it lasts.

    But before I go - Henriques out. I’ve still got it.
    And malcolm thinks he understands the sport... :smile:
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Can anyone give (or link to) a non-libellous non-contempt-of-court summary of what's happening in Scottish politics? I know about the Salmond case, but have only vaguely heard some umours about Sturgeon, and there seems to be some factional rivalry in the SNP too. What's up?
    There have been rumours for some time that Nicola was looking for an international exit but not finding one. The SNP are split between those that want a referendum right now and those who want to do things properly with Westminster consent. The latter also recognise that right now might not be the best time and want a better indication than the polls are giving that a second referendum might pass.

    Nicola leads the second group but Boris's blunt responses are making her look weak. When you add in the speculation about the possible fall out of the trial possible leadership candidates are desperate to get into Holyrood. This is likely to result in a serious competition for Ruth's seat between Robertson (the wait candidate) and Cherry (a let's go candidate). Of course there may not be a vacancy. There is no reason why Ruth should stand down unless she not only went the House of Lords but also took a government post. That's possible but far from certain.

    A further frisson has been added to all this by the departure of Derek Mackay. He was the obvious heir apparent and would have been very hard to stop if a vacancy had occurred. His departure leaves no obvious or strong candidate in the Parliament. It has stepped up the urgency for both wings.
    David, Mackay was always a lightweight, how he ever got to where he was is a mystery. He was never ever going to be leader in a month of Sundays for many reasons including serious lack of talent and charisma.
    I agree about his lack of talent but he was the man in position, in the Parliament, Financial Secretary and apparently Nicola's chosen one.

    The fact he rose so high rather undermines your argument about the SNP having an excess of talent. They are actually stronger in Westminster and Robertson is highly competent but the current Scottish government is just embarrassingly inept. As is the opposition in fairness. Scotland is very poorly governed with no obvious alternative. It's a problem.
    Nicola has supported two deeply flawed individuals - is she corrupt or deeply naive ?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,230

    Buttigieg has been value. He had almost no chance a few months ago. Now he is second in delegates.

    Yes, money was to be made going in and out of him at the right times.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    What would be your top five performances by British boxers?

    Tricky. I like the sport but don't follow it closely. I thought Bugner in Kuala Lumpur was underrated - but no way a top 5.

    You better tell me what they are.
    LOL
  • ydoethur said:
    They really are buggering it up aren't they? The iron party discipline is disintegrating. Eek.
    Does this mean that the SNP honeymoon is over?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    nichomar said:



    It’s no worse than the UK!

    At least Trump is only motivated by vanity and greed. Those seem more human motives than the pure and unalloyed evil that drives Johnson.
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Quincel said:

    I'm not the first to say this, but why does the market still have Sanders as almost evens?

    Because they can’t quite believe the Dems would be so fucking stupid as to pick a 79 year old Socialist with a heart condition who isn’t even a Dem to go up against a nutcase like Trump that they really, really need to beat?
    Indeed, hence the market that’s 11% under-round. Sanders should be at least a 65% chance rather than 52%.
    It’s @rottenborough i feel sorry for.

    Oh, and the rest of us at having the serious risk of four more years of this psychotic in the White House.
    Has US politics ever been in a worse state
    It’s no worse than the UK!
    That is plainly absurd
    Is it?

    https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status/1231491268309549056?s=09
    That was discussed on Marr this morning and Marr himself said it was a good idea
    That the security services do not trust the Home Sec?

    I suspect not the only one at the heart of government who cannot be trusted with official intelligence.
    Of course not, the pairing down of the advice
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,484
    eek said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:
    They really are buggering it up aren't they? The iron party discipline is disintegrating. Eek.
    Yes they are really struggling , 48 out of 59 MP's, polls showing over 50% support for upcoming Holyrood elections and another landslide , and they are doing it deliberately.
    Is Angus trying to get back as an MSP to give the SNP options when they need to replace Sturgeon.

    Otherwise this makes little sense...
    Yes. It's a race back to Edinburgh to be in place when the fall happens. It sort of reminds me of those Nazgols in Lord of the Rings racing back to Mount Doom when they realise Frodo has dropped the ring in the volcano.
  • nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Quincel said:

    I'm not the first to say this, but why does the market still have Sanders as almost evens?

    Because they can’t quite believe the Dems would be so fucking stupid as to pick a 79 year old Socialist with a heart condition who isn’t even a Dem to go up against a nutcase like Trump that they really, really need to beat?
    Indeed, hence the market that’s 11% under-round. Sanders should be at least a 65% chance rather than 52%.
    It’s @rottenborough i feel sorry for.

    Oh, and the rest of us at having the serious risk of four more years of this psychotic in the White House.
    Has US politics ever been in a worse state
    It’s no worse than the UK!
    That is plainly absurd
    Johnson = Trump
    Labour = Sanders
    So not absurd unless one is a fawning disciple of Johnson.
    Bitter remainers trying to paint Boris as Trump is all they have left
    It’s nothing to do with remain or leave it’s taking a cold detached look at the individuals involved who share many character traits and political tactics.
    Of course it is. If Boris was an ardent fan of the EU you would be singing his praises
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Im seeing Lisa Nandy speak this afternoon in Newcastle. Will report back.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Biden can come back in SC off the back of this, Buttigieg's black voter numbers are going to bury him there

    I say this because they are a similar price. Buttigieg will fly out in SC I think
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Biden can come back in SC off the back of this, Buttigieg's black voter numbers are going to bury him there

    I say this because they are a similar price. Buttigieg will fly out in SC I think
    Yep. Pete, has been very honest about his performances not being good enough so far

    But even if he drops out after SC, I'm not sure most of his voters will go to Biden, I think a lot of them will go to Warren who attracts a lot of college educated whites.

    As a side it is interesting how many poc in the dem Primaries identify as moderate/conservative vs.whites

    https://mobile.twitter.com/SteveKornacki/status/1231320297250402305
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    ydoethur said:
    I wouldn't masquerade as a regular Boris supporter, but in fairness he's perfectly capable of mastering a complex brief if he wants to. He rang me out of the blue (in my day job capacity) when he was preparing to stand for the leadership to ask for a briefing on live exports, as he was going to write a Telegraph piece on the issue. We talked for about 15 minutes on the detail and it all appeared a couple of days later, entirely accurately summarised.

    The difference from Mrs T is perhaps that she positively liked absorbing lots of detail about everything, whereas he is, I think, somewhat more selective.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359

    malcolmg said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:
    Ooh, an SNP civil war over a marginal seat selection.

    This is going to be like like watching the feminists and the trans activists having a discussion over Labour Party policy - something best done from as far away as possible!
    It is called competition , where do you get "civil war" from. Luckily the SNP have so much talent it is unlike the Westminster parties in not having to put up any old donkey or lickspittle chum they can drag of the streets.
    Which candidate do you favour Malc?
    I like both, but Robertson is my favourite for next SNP leader, unless Alex could make a comeback which is highly unlikely.
    He looks and talks the part.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359

    ydoethur said:
    They really are buggering it up aren't they? The iron party discipline is disintegrating. Eek.
    Does this mean that the SNP honeymoon is over?
    Que HYFUD stating their vote slipped in nineteen canteen or some such.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359
    eek said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:
    They really are buggering it up aren't they? The iron party discipline is disintegrating. Eek.
    Yes they are really struggling , 48 out of 59 MP's, polls showing over 50% support for upcoming Holyrood elections and another landslide , and they are doing it deliberately.
    Is Angus trying to get back as an MSP to give the SNP options when they need to replace Sturgeon.

    Otherwise this makes little sense...
    For sure he wants to be next leader and FM.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    eek said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:
    They really are buggering it up aren't they? The iron party discipline is disintegrating. Eek.
    Yes they are really struggling , 48 out of 59 MP's, polls showing over 50% support for upcoming Holyrood elections and another landslide , and they are doing it deliberately.
    Is Angus trying to get back as an MSP to give the SNP options when they need to replace Sturgeon.

    Otherwise this makes little sense...
    Yes. It's a race back to Edinburgh to be in place when the fall happens. It sort of reminds me of those Nazgols in Lord of the Rings racing back to Mount Doom when they realise Frodo has dropped the ring in the volcano.
    Cherry would be a good leader in my opinion.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:
    Ooh, an SNP civil war over a marginal seat selection.

    This is going to be like like watching the feminists and the trans activists having a discussion over Labour Party policy - something best done from as far away as possible!
    It is called competition , where do you get "civil war" from. Luckily the SNP have so much talent it is unlike the Westminster parties in not having to put up any old donkey or lickspittle chum they can drag of the streets.
    Which candidate do you favour Malc?
    unless Alex could make a comeback which is highly unlikely.
    .
    Convicts will now have the vote in Scotland malc - next step is to allow them to stand for office..
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Can anyone give (or link to) a non-libellous non-contempt-of-court summary of what's happening in Scottish politics? I know about the Salmond case, but have only vaguely heard some umours about Sturgeon, and there seems to be some factional rivalry in the SNP too. What's up?
    There have been rumours for some time that Nicola was looking for an international exit but not finding one. The SNP are split between those that want a referendum right now and those who want to do things properly with Westminster consent. The latter also recognise that right now might not be the best time and want a better indication than the polls are giving that a second referendum might pass.

    Nicola leads the second group but Boris's blunt responses are making her look weak. When you add in the speculation about the possible fall out of the trial possible leadership candidates are desperate to get into Holyrood. This is likely to result in a serious competition for Ruth's seat between Robertson (the wait candidate) and Cherry (a let's go candidate). Of course there may not be a vacancy. There is no reason why Ruth should stand down unless she not only went the House of Lords but also took a government post. That's possible but far from certain.

    A further frisson has been added to all this by the departure of Derek Mackay. He was the obvious heir apparent and would have been very hard to stop if a vacancy had occurred. His departure leaves no obvious or strong candidate in the Parliament. It has stepped up the urgency for both wings.
    David, Mackay was always a lightweight, how he ever got to where he was is a mystery. He was never ever going to be leader in a month of Sundays for many reasons including serious lack of talent and charisma.
    PS: Robertson is the next leader as long as he does not just show himself as a clone of Sturgeon. He has far more talent but people are getting fed up and beginning to think current leadership are getting fat and happy with the current status quo.
    Maybe they should do their day job which they are failing at rather than internal fighting over power bases

    The next month looks like a shambles for the SNP and will Nicola survive
    G, on almost every measure Scotland under the SNP is doing better than England despite all the obstacles flung at them, all this unionist crap about doing their day job is a real joke given the state of the UK and Boris in hiding.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    But of course, if you have a dislike for the USA, and long for the decline and fall of the the US empire, what is there not to like about four more years? Look at the long term mess baby trump will make to the economy, the deficit and foreign affairs in those four more years 😁.

    The bottom line is people who are not Conservatives have taken over the Conservative vote. In the cold light of tomorrow history books will record this as the beginning of the end of Conservative dominance and the return to liberalism. 😌
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,191

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Quincel said:

    I'm not the first to say this, but why does the market still have Sanders as almost evens?

    Because they can’t quite believe the Dems would be so fucking stupid as to pick a 79 year old Socialist with a heart condition who isn’t even a Dem to go up against a nutcase like Trump that they really, really need to beat?
    Indeed, hence the market that’s 11% under-round. Sanders should be at least a 65% chance rather than 52%.
    It’s @rottenborough i feel sorry for.

    Oh, and the rest of us at having the serious risk of four more years of this psychotic in the White House.
    :lol: Many thanks for your concern. I am as red on Sanders as a very red thing.

    Looks like I am going to take a beating. Just can't believe Dems are this stupid.

    I am beginning to wonder whether USA is having a massive collective breakdown.
    Would Sanders be a good president? If not, which Dem candidate would be better?

    Personally, I would say he would obviously be better than Trump, and probably better than most of the previous presidents. Which suggests that if they are having a breakdown it's been going on for quite some time.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:
    Ooh, an SNP civil war over a marginal seat selection.

    This is going to be like like watching the feminists and the trans activists having a discussion over Labour Party policy - something best done from as far away as possible!
    It is called competition , where do you get "civil war" from. Luckily the SNP have so much talent it is unlike the Westminster parties in not having to put up any old donkey or lickspittle chum they can drag of the streets.
    Which candidate do you favour Malc?
    I like both, but Robertson is my favourite for next SNP leader, unless Alex could make a comeback which is highly unlikely.
    He looks and talks the part.
    I can absolutely see Salmond having the neck to come back as Leader, just to prove how much he has been vindicated by a Not Guilty verdict.

    He probably has enough neck if it comes back Not Proven.....
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Can anyone give (or link to) a non-libellous non-contempt-of-court summary of what's happening in Scottish politics? I know about the Salmond case, but have only vaguely heard some umours about Sturgeon, and there seems to be some factional rivalry in the SNP too. What's up?
    There have been rumours for some time that Nicola was looking for an international exit but not finding one. The SNP are split between those that want a referendum right now and those who want to do things properly with Westminster consent. The latter also recognise that right now might not be the best time and want a better indication than the polls are giving that a second referendum might pass.

    Nicola leads the second group but Boris's blunt responses are making her look weak. When you add in the speculation about the possible fall out of the trial possible leadership candidates are desperate to get into Holyrood. This is likely to result in a serious competition for Ruth's seat between Robertson (the wait candidate) and Cherry (a let's go candidate). Of course there may not be a vacancy. There is no reason why Ruth should stand down unless she not only went the House of Lords but also took a government post. That's possible but far from certain.

    A further frisson has been added to all this by the departure of Derek Mackay. He was the obvious heir apparent and would have been very hard to stop if a vacancy had occurred. His departure leaves no obvious or strong candidate in the Parliament. It has stepped up the urgency for both wings.
    David, Mackay was always a lightweight, how he ever got to where he was is a mystery. He was never ever going to be leader in a month of Sundays for many reasons including serious lack of talent and charisma.
    PS: Robertson is the next leader as long as he does not just show himself as a clone of Sturgeon. He has far more talent but people are getting fed up and beginning to think current leadership are getting fat and happy with the current status quo.
    Maybe they should do their day job which they are failing at rather than internal fighting over power bases

    The next month looks like a shambles for the SNP and will Nicola survive
    G, on almost every measure Scotland under the SNP is doing better than England despite all the obstacles flung at them, all this unionist crap about doing their day job is a real joke given the state of the UK and Boris in hiding.
    Apart from secondary education, hospital building, bridge building and ferry building.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359
    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Can anyone give (or link to) a non-libellous non-contempt-of-court summary of what's happening in Scottish politics? I know about the Salmond case, but have only vaguely heard some umours about Sturgeon, and there seems to be some factional rivalry in the SNP too. What's up?
    There have been rumours for some time that Nicola was looking for an international exit but not finding one. The SNP are split between those that want a referendum right now and those who want to do things properly with Westminster consent. The latter also recognise that right now might not be the best time and want a better indication than the polls are giving that a second referendum might pass.

    Nicola leads the second group but Boris's blunt responses are making her look weak. When you add in the speculation about the possible fall out of the trial possible leadership candidates are desperate to get into Holyrood. This is likely to result in a serious competition for Ruth's seat between Robertson (the wait candidate) and Cherry (a let's go candidate). Of course there may not be a vacancy. There is no reason why Ruth should stand down unless she not only went the House of Lords but also took a government post. That's possible but far from certain.

    A further frisson has been added to all this by the departure of Derek Mackay. He was the obvious heir apparent and would have been very hard to stop if a vacancy had occurred. His departure leaves no obvious or strong candidate in the Parliament. It has stepped up the urgency for both wings.
    David, Mackay was always a lightweight, how he ever got to where he was is a mystery. He was never ever going to be leader in a month of Sundays for many reasons including serious lack of talent and charisma.
    I agree about his lack of talent but he was the man in position, in the Parliament, Financial Secretary and apparently Nicola's chosen one.

    The fact he rose so high rather undermines your argument about the SNP having an excess of talent. They are actually stronger in Westminster and Robertson is highly competent but the current Scottish government is just embarrassingly inept. As is the opposition in fairness. Scotland is very poorly governed with no obvious alternative. It's a problem.
    David, you always get a few lightweights and pet placements, just look at Westminster cabinet to see how bad it can really get. I am not a Sturgeon fan but the SNP are doing a far better job of running Scotland than their equivalent UK counterparts.
    SNP is much much bigger than Sturgeon.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,230
    edited February 2020

    Bitter remainers trying to paint Boris as Trump is all they have left

    Well you know I'm not a bitter Remainer so let me give you my take -

    Trump is a borderline moron and is wholly malevolent in spirit. Johnson is neither of those things. There is simply no comparison.

    But a big thing they do have in common is being in politics purely for their own gratification - i.e. an absence of integrity or sense of public service.

    And Johnson is certainly lifting some techniques from the Trump playbook.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,191
    egg said:

    But of course, if you have a dislike for the USA, and long for the decline and fall of the the US empire, what is there not to like about four more years? Look at the long term mess baby trump will make to the economy, the deficit and foreign affairs in those four more years 😁.

    The bottom line is people who are not Conservatives have taken over the Conservative vote. In the cold light of tomorrow history books will record this as the beginning of the end of Conservative dominance and the return to liberalism. 😌
    Far more likely it will be seen as humanity losing the last chance to avoid catastrophic global overheating and the collapse of civilization.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,864
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:
    Ooh, an SNP civil war over a marginal seat selection.

    This is going to be like like watching the feminists and the trans activists having a discussion over Labour Party policy - something best done from as far away as possible!
    It is called competition , where do you get "civil war" from. Luckily the SNP have so much talent it is unlike the Westminster parties in not having to put up any old donkey or lickspittle chum they can drag of the streets.
    Which candidate do you favour Malc?
    I like both, but Robertson is my favourite for next SNP leader, unless Alex could make a comeback which is highly unlikely.
    He looks and talks the part.
    As a Unionist Robertson is the one I would fear. He would come closest to building the broader consensus that Salmond went for. Sturgeon has gone more to the left which has given the SNP control of the central belt (and hence the Scottish Parliament) but would struggle to get a majority for independence. I knew Cherry slightly during her time at the bar. She's not overly ebullient.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359
    Alistair said:
    Unionists find it odd that a politician actually tells the truth.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Foxy said:



    That the security services do not trust the Home Sec?

    .

    It's not surprising since she was sacked for running her own foreign policy with Israel from a different department.

    The pb.com tories were mostly Maybots at that point and dutifully lined to up to stick the boot into Priti Woman with the same fervour with which they now salute her.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359
    TGOHF666 said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:
    SNP has more talent on show just for selection in one seat than all the unionist parties can raise in total.
    The ex MP loser who knew about Salmond but was too loyal to report vs the female lawyer who is outraged he has even been charged.

    They certainly have a talent for something..
    Touch of green cheese there Harry, I presume neither of them are in the LOL
This discussion has been closed.