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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Iowa could still go either way with 97% of precincts counted

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230
    edited February 2020

    speedy2 said:

    FPT:

    speedy2 said:

    5.

    I

    It will be an entirely different race.
    Especially since he's very likely to win NH, and at that point- if he finishes ahead in Iowa- it's hard to report that as anything except "won the first two states".
    It looks like it will end up with Buttigieg chasing Sanders to the convention to me, with Bloomberg doing his best to cockblock the second but actually ending up cockblocking the first instead.
    Buttigieg isn't going to get a sniff after NH.
    Why?
    Look at how he's been polling in those states. Iowa was demographically a dream for him, his campaign threw all of its resources there, and this was the best he could do. If he maintains his lead in Iowa pulls off an upset in NH then that might just give him a boost, but otherwise he's going to run smack into Nevada and SC where he's polling at an average of 7% and 5%, then limp into super Tuesday with no momentum, dreadful national numbers, and massive liabilities in the minority vote. Basically, he's just not very popular.
    He outperformed expectations in Iowa (where Biden bombed) and is now doing better in NH polling.

    I’m not sure the pre-Iowa polling for Nevada or SC tells you very much, because the other early contests will influence the result there.

    I’m planning to top up on Biden after NH (where I expect him to underperform again) as I expect him to do much better in SC and win.
    It's Iowa. It doesn't look anything like America, let alone the Democratic coalition.

    Other candidates have more chance of staying around longer.
    That’s possible but it’s also possible he becomes the most viable ‘stop Sanders’ candidate.
    After the Iowa fiasco Buttigieg is probably going to become "Cheating Pete" in the public eyes.

    Anyway lets all wait for the N.Hampshire Debate, Biden and Klobuchar are bound to attack him in order to pop his bubble.
    Is there anyone other than Sanders supporters calling him cheating Pete?
    Trump, I'm fairly sure.
    Then again, he's probably in that category.
  • BigRich said:

    Fortunately, i understand, she lost the labour party contest, I have not seen the full results, but would be interested if anybody has them.

    Here you go:

    https://twitter.com/matt_hfoster/status/1225408893951627266
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230

    Mr. Contrarian, must admit I really dislike Imagine. It drips with hypocrisy.

    "Imagine there's no money," sang the millionaire, playing his piano, in his mansion.

    Liam Byrne fan, was he ?

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited February 2020

    Pulpstar said:

    The overton window is so far to the right in the USA I'd actively think about voting for Sanders or Warren there. Not saying I would, but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand.

    I think it’s much more polarised on identity issues.

    I’d have a problem as I vehemently disagree with both Republican and Democratic positions.
    I would vote for Trump over Sanders or Warren but Bloomberg over Trump, Biden or Buttigieg v Trump I would decide on the day
  • F1: hmm. The season points finish market has gone from Ladbrokes.

    Surprised the sport hasn't officially axed the Chinese Grand Prix. There's some mumbling about rescheduling.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited February 2020

    Brexit songs

    Most Remainey John Lennon's Imagine

    Most Leavey Pulp's Common People

    WTF?! How is Common People a "Leavey" song? A terrible slur on a great song.
    Pulp foresaw the remain/middle class leftist tendency fifteen years before it came to prominence.

    Stuffed with people like girl he dates in the song.

    The point being, they cannot know, comprehend or represent the working class, even if they want to.
    If you think the girl from Greece is middle (not upper) class you need to recalibrate your scale.

    Today's 'common people' are precisely the ones who have been shafted by the Brexit-supporting super-wealthy elite (e.g. Barclay brothers, Murdoch, Bamford, Wetherspoon, Dyson, Rees-Mogg,... I could go on).
    The common people voted for Brexit in large part to reduce immigration, to the disgust of much of the elite
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    Brexit songs

    Most Remainey John Lennon's Imagine

    Most Leavey Pulp's Common People

    WTF?! How is Common People a "Leavey" song? A terrible slur on a great song.
    The right have a habit of appropriating good stuff cos they're bit rubbish on the creative side.
    Too true (Wagner excepted).
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    kinabalu said:

    I know, right? How dare Twitter not ban him for the crime of expressing extremely wide-held opinions...

    Well, quite, that's my point really. That despite all of the nonsense we hear about vulgar reactionaries getting persecuted - silenced and even banged up just for speaking their minds - Fox remains at liberty, both physically and online.
    And yet the first impulse of _his own union_ was to condemn him and thus attempt to destroy his career. Would you approve if lefties lost their livelihoods when they express their own political views?

    As ever, the left champions every kind of diversity as an axiomatic public good - except for diversity of opinion, of course!
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    HYUFD said:

    Brexit songs

    Most Remainey John Lennon's Imagine

    Most Leavey Pulp's Common People

    WTF?! How is Common People a "Leavey" song? A terrible slur on a great song.
    Pulp foresaw the remain/middle class leftist tendency fifteen years before it came to prominence.

    Stuffed with people like girl he dates in the song.

    The point being, they cannot know, comprehend or represent the working class, even if they want to.
    If you think the girl from Greece is middle (not upper) class you need to recalibrate your scale.

    Today's 'common people' are precisely the ones who have been shafted by the Brexit-supporting super-wealthy elite (e.g. Barclay brothers, Murdoch, Bamford, Wetherspoon, Dyson, Rees-Mogg,... I could go on).
    The common people voted for Brexit in large part to reduce immigration, much to the disgust of much of the elite
    And the surprise of the elite. They thought the working class liked them and supported them because, like so many middle class labour politicians, they 'empathised' while living in expensive houses. Like the girl in the song.

    And as the song says, in the end the working classes weren't singing along with them, they were laughing at them.

    And voting against them
  • Pete vs Bernie, 8.30 am in Iowa. Is there a timetable for the last few results?
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    Brexit songs

    Most Remainey John Lennon's Imagine

    Most Leavey Pulp's Common People

    WTF?! How is Common People a "Leavey" song? A terrible slur on a great song.
    The right have a habit of appropriating good stuff cos they're bit rubbish on the creative side.
    Without the right's dominance of politics and economics, the left would have nothing to inspire their 'creativity'...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,211

    Pete vs Bernie, 8.30 am in Iowa. Is there a timetable for the last few results?

    Los Angeles, Broward County, Philadelphia and Detroit are sending in the counters.
  • FPT Ode To Joy is one of the finest pieces of music ever written. You have to be Pavlovian trained by Brexit to dislike it.

    True. If there is time I prefer to hear it in its proper context as the finale of one of the finest symphonies ever written.

    My late grandmother was not a fan, but that was because she thought the soprano line was too high...
  • speedy2 said:

    FPT:

    speedy2 said:

    5.

    I

    It will be an entirely different race.
    Especially since he's very likely to win NH, and at that point- if he finishes ahead in Iowa- it's hard to report that as anything except "won the first two states".
    It looks like it will end up with Buttigieg chasing Sanders to the convention to me, with Bloomberg doing his best to cockblock the second but actually ending up cockblocking the first instead.
    Buttigieg isn't going to get a sniff after NH.
    Why?
    Look at how he's been polling in those states. Iowa was demographically a dream for him, his campaign threw all of its resources there, and this was the best he could do. If he maintains his lead in Iowa pulls off an upset in NH then that might just give him a boost, but otherwise he's going to run smack into Nevada and SC where he's polling at an average of 7% and 5%, then limp into super Tuesday with no momentum, dreadful national numbers, and massive liabilities in the minority vote. Basically, he's just not very popular.
    He outperformed expectations in Iowa (where Biden bombed) and is now doing better in NH polling.

    I’m not sure the pre-Iowa polling for Nevada or SC tells you very much, because the other early contests will influence the result there.

    I’m planning to top up on Biden after NH (where I expect him to underperform again) as I expect him to do much better in SC and win.
    It's Iowa. It doesn't look anything like America, let alone the Democratic coalition. Buttigieg won in the most unrepresentative places. He's a mid-Westerner who couldn't secure a mid-Western state, if he isn't winning here he isn't going to win much elsewhere.

    Other candidates have more chance of staying around longer.
    That’s possible but it’s also possible he becomes the most viable ‘stop Sanders’ candidate.
    After the Iowa fiasco Buttigieg is probably going to become "Cheating Pete" in the public eyes.

    Anyway lets all wait for the N.Hampshire Debate, Biden and Klobuchar are bound to attack him in order to pop his bubble.
    Is there anyone other than Sanders supporters calling him cheating Pete?
    Isn't this all a bit 'primary school'?
    Trump in particular seems to think that giving a political opponent a nickname is all the political debate that is needed.
  • If you don't know much about Irish politics, this is the article to read:

    https://www.politico.eu/article/healy-rae-kerry-political-dynasty-irish-election/
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,905
    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The overton window is so far to the right in the USA I'd actively think about voting for Sanders or Warren there. Not saying I would, but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand.

    I think it’s much more polarised on identity issues.
    I’d have a problem as I vehemently disagree with both Republican and Democratic positions.
    I would vote for Trump over Sanders or Warren but Bloomberg over Trump, Biden or Buttigieg v Trump I would decide on the day
    A floating Conservative voter, I see. Where are your principles?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,864

    Are we now in an era where if China, rather than the US, sneezes the world catches cold?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/05/coronavirus-markets-black-swan-dive-chinese-outbreak-economy

    The big effect is going to be on tourism. China provides roughly 16% of the world's tourist "spend". They are not coming. That is going to have quite a devastating effect on not only the likes of Thailand and Malaysia but also Oxford Street and Bond Street. At the moment the damage looks more sectoral than systemic but we would want to see a peak in infections this month if at all possible.
  • Brexit songs

    Most Remainey John Lennon's Imagine

    Most Leavey Pulp's Common People

    WTF?! How is Common People a "Leavey" song? A terrible slur on a great song.
    Pulp foresaw the remain/middle class leftist tendency fifteen years before it came to prominence.

    Stuffed with people like girl he dates in the song.

    The point being, they cannot know, comprehend or represent the working class, even if they want to.
    If you think the girl from Greece is middle (not upper) class you need to recalibrate your scale.

    Today's 'common people' are precisely the ones who have been shafted by the Brexit-supporting super-wealthy elite (e.g. Barclay brothers, Murdoch, Bamford, Wetherspoon, Dyson, Rees-Mogg,... I could go on).
    Jarvis Cocker described Brexit “an ongoing mental health crisis” for the UK.

    https://www.nme.com/news/music/jarvis-cocker-says-brexit-ongoing-mental-health-crisis-uk-2489758

    Actually I've met Jarvis Cocker a few times, we are both very similar, we are working class kids from Sheffield who have done well out out of life with hard work and our God given talents.
  • IIRC Jarvis Cocker's mother was a Tory councillor.
  • Blur: Remain
    Oasis: Leave
  • Brexit songs

    Most Remainey John Lennon's Imagine

    Most Leavey Pulp's Common People

    WTF?! How is Common People a "Leavey" song? A terrible slur on a great song.
    Pulp foresaw the remain/middle class leftist tendency fifteen years before it came to prominence.

    Stuffed with people like girl he dates in the song.

    The point being, they cannot know, comprehend or represent the working class, even if they want to.
    If you think the girl from Greece is middle (not upper) class you need to recalibrate your scale.

    Today's 'common people' are precisely the ones who have been shafted by the Brexit-supporting super-wealthy elite (e.g. Barclay brothers, Murdoch, Bamford, Wetherspoon, Dyson, Rees-Mogg,... I could go on).
    Jarvis Cocker described Brexit “an ongoing mental health crisis” for the UK.

    https://www.nme.com/news/music/jarvis-cocker-says-brexit-ongoing-mental-health-crisis-uk-2489758

    Actually I've met Jarvis Cocker a few times, we are both very similar, we are working class kids from Sheffield who have done well out out of life with hard work and our God given talents.
    Does Jarvis still live in Paris?
    Innocent face etc.
  • Fat Boy Slim: Remain
    The Beautiful South: Leave
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    Brexit songs

    Most Remainey John Lennon's Imagine

    Most Leavey Pulp's Common People

    WTF?! How is Common People a "Leavey" song? A terrible slur on a great song.
    Pulp foresaw the remain/middle class leftist tendency fifteen years before it came to prominence.

    Stuffed with people like girl he dates in the song.

    The point being, they cannot know, comprehend or represent the working class, even if they want to.
    If you think the girl from Greece is middle (not upper) class you need to recalibrate your scale.

    Today's 'common people' are precisely the ones who have been shafted by the Brexit-supporting super-wealthy elite (e.g. Barclay brothers, Murdoch, Bamford, Wetherspoon, Dyson, Rees-Mogg,... I could go on).
    Jarvis Cocker described Brexit “an ongoing mental health crisis” for the UK.

    https://www.nme.com/news/music/jarvis-cocker-says-brexit-ongoing-mental-health-crisis-uk-2489758

    Actually I've met Jarvis Cocker a few times, we are both very similar, we are working class kids from Sheffield who have done well out out of life with hard work and our God given talents.
    Both similarly hampered by excessive modesty too. :wink:
  • Brexit songs

    Most Remainey John Lennon's Imagine

    Most Leavey Pulp's Common People

    WTF?! How is Common People a "Leavey" song? A terrible slur on a great song.
    Pulp foresaw the remain/middle class leftist tendency fifteen years before it came to prominence.

    Stuffed with people like girl he dates in the song.

    The point being, they cannot know, comprehend or represent the working class, even if they want to.
    If you think the girl from Greece is middle (not upper) class you need to recalibrate your scale.

    Today's 'common people' are precisely the ones who have been shafted by the Brexit-supporting super-wealthy elite (e.g. Barclay brothers, Murdoch, Bamford, Wetherspoon, Dyson, Rees-Mogg,... I could go on).
    Jarvis Cocker described Brexit “an ongoing mental health crisis” for the UK.

    https://www.nme.com/news/music/jarvis-cocker-says-brexit-ongoing-mental-health-crisis-uk-2489758

    Actually I've met Jarvis Cocker a few times, we are both very similar, we are working class kids from Sheffield who have done well out out of life with hard work and our God given talents.
    Does Jarvis still live in Paris?
    Innocent face etc.
    Pass, I'm in Paris for a city break in July, if I see him, I'll let you know.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    Its funny but would the irish even be happy with that, notwithstanding that it is an official language for them?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405

    Fat Boy Slim: Remain
    The Beautiful South: Leave

    I can't see Paul Heaton actually caring that much about Europe.

    Actually scrub that he travels to write in Rotterdam so I suspect he would have been remain.
  • Fake News? Suggestion is that it was an ATM in Ireland.
  • eek said:

    Fat Boy Slim: Remain
    The Beautiful South: Leave

    I can't see Paul Heaton actually caring that much about Europe.

    Actually scrub that he travels to write in Rotterdam so I suspect he would have been remain.
    IIRC he's very anti Tory and thus anti Brexit.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    edited February 2020

    HYUFD said:

    Brexit songs

    Most Remainey John Lennon's Imagine

    Most Leavey Pulp's Common People

    WTF?! How is Common People a "Leavey" song? A terrible slur on a great song.
    Pulp foresaw the remain/middle class leftist tendency fifteen years before it came to prominence.

    Stuffed with people like girl he dates in the song.

    The point being, they cannot know, comprehend or represent the working class, even if they want to.
    If you think the girl from Greece is middle (not upper) class you need to recalibrate your scale.

    Today's 'common people' are precisely the ones who have been shafted by the Brexit-supporting super-wealthy elite (e.g. Barclay brothers, Murdoch, Bamford, Wetherspoon, Dyson, Rees-Mogg,... I could go on).
    The common people voted for Brexit in large part to reduce immigration, much to the disgust of much of the elite
    And the surprise of the elite. They thought the working class liked them and supported them because, like so many middle class labour politicians, they 'empathised' while living in expensive houses. Like the girl in the song.

    And as the song says, in the end the working classes weren't singing along with them, they were laughing at them.

    And voting against them
    You seem to be confusing 'elite' with 'middle class' here when surely these two are mutually exclusive.

    Which is it you don't like the elite or the middle classes?

    And were the working classes also voting against the Leave-supporting subsets of the elite and/or the middle class?

    Brexit wasn't about class, it was a crystallisation of two contrasting world-views (liberal internationalist versus conservative parochial) which co-exist in roughly equal proportions in our country.
  • Fake News? Suggestion is that it was an ATM in Ireland.
    Yes, it's a spoof. See also:

    https://wurst.lu/irish-english-replaces-british-english-as-eu-working-language/

  • The Beatles: Remain
    Gerry and the Pacemakers: Leave
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,211
    Jefferson Airplane: Leave (White rabbit)
    Eagles : Remain (Hotel California)
  • Language options for websites sometimes have the stars and stripes symbol for English.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231
    edited February 2020

    Blur: Remain
    Oasis: Leave

    That certainly works. And I prefer Oasis. Thus confirming beyond all reasonable doubt my thesis that everyone - even the most enlightened of sensibilities - has a bit of Leave in them.

    Do not like Grandad by Clive Dunn though. Don't like that one iota.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    HYUFD said:

    Brexit songs

    Most Remainey John Lennon's Imagine

    Most Leavey Pulp's Common People

    WTF?! How is Common People a "Leavey" song? A terrible slur on a great song.
    Pulp foresaw the remain/middle class leftist tendency fifteen years before it came to prominence.

    Stuffed with people like girl he dates in the song.

    The point being, they cannot know, comprehend or represent the working class, even if they want to.
    If you think the girl from Greece is middle (not upper) class you need to recalibrate your scale.

    Today's 'common people' are precisely the ones who have been shafted by the Brexit-supporting super-wealthy elite (e.g. Barclay brothers, Murdoch, Bamford, Wetherspoon, Dyson, Rees-Mogg,... I could go on).
    The common people voted for Brexit in large part to reduce immigration, much to the disgust of much of the elite
    And the surprise of the elite. They thought the working class liked them and supported them because, like so many middle class labour politicians, they 'empathised' while living in expensive houses. Like the girl in the song.

    And as the song says, in the end the working classes weren't singing along with them, they were laughing at them.

    And voting against them
    You seem to be confusing 'elite' with 'middle class' here when surely these two are mutually exclusive.

    Which is it you don't like the elite or the middle classes?

    And were the working classes also voting against the Leave-supporting subsets of the elite and/or the middle class?

    Brexit wasn't about class, it was a crystallisation of two contrasting world-views (liberal internationalist versus conservative parochial) which co-exist in roughly equal proportions in our country.
    No you are confusing elite with upper class.

    Would you consider Tony Blair, John Major, Lord Adonis, Tom Watson, Emily Thornbery and others to be upper class? They themselves certainly would not. And yet they are what we commonly refer to as the elite. And they are certainly wealthy.

    Its their sons and daughters, not those of the handful of the Brexit wealthy, that are being characterised in the song, for me.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    Language options for websites sometimes very frequently have the stars and stripes symbol for English.

    And why not, given there are c.330m US citizens and only 67m Brits?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    Straw in the Labour wind - Liam Byrne wins easily with 3105 first pref votes as candidate for West Midlands mayor - he is traditional centre-left, but had John McDonnell's backing. Selma Yaqoob, who had in the past stood against Labour for a left-wing party but this time had Momentum, Unite and Owen Jones backing, came third with 1809 (Pete Lowe, who I don't know, came second).

    Quite a low turnout on these figures, I'd think, but it shows the limited reach of Momentum and Unite in corralling members' votes. We listen to advice but vote as individuals - the idea that Momentum (of which I'm a member) is a monolithic bloc is misplaced/
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,779
    Was trying to think of the most Sunderland band - and only came up with Lauren Laverne who doesn't strike me as being particularly leave... so instead...

    Catatonia: Leave
    Sleeper: Remain
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    HYUFD said:

    Brexit songs

    Most Remainey John Lennon's Imagine

    Most Leavey Pulp's Common People

    WTF?! How is Common People a "Leavey" song? A terrible slur on a great song.
    Pulp foresaw the remain/middle class leftist tendency fifteen years before it came to prominence.

    Stuffed with people like girl he dates in the song.

    The point being, they cannot know, comprehend or represent the working class, even if they want to.
    If you think the girl from Greece is middle (not upper) class you need to recalibrate your scale.

    Today's 'common people' are precisely the ones who have been shafted by the Brexit-supporting super-wealthy elite (e.g. Barclay brothers, Murdoch, Bamford, Wetherspoon, Dyson, Rees-Mogg,... I could go on).
    The common people voted for Brexit in large part to reduce immigration, much to the disgust of much of the elite
    And the surprise of the elite. They thought the working class liked them and supported them because, like so many middle class labour politicians, they 'empathised' while living in expensive houses. Like the girl in the song.

    And as the song says, in the end the working classes weren't singing along with them, they were laughing at them.

    And voting against them
    You seem to be confusing 'elite' with 'middle class' here when surely these two are mutually exclusive.

    Which is it you don't like the elite or the middle classes?

    And were the working classes also voting against the Leave-supporting subsets of the elite and/or the middle class?

    Brexit wasn't about class, it was a crystallisation of two contrasting world-views (liberal internationalist versus conservative parochial) which co-exist in roughly equal proportions in our country.
    No you are confusing elite with upper class.

    Would you consider Tony Blair, John Major, Lord Adonis, Tom Watson, Emily Thornbery and others to be upper class? They themselves certainly would not. And yet they are what we commonly refer to as the elite. And they are certainly wealthy.

    Its their sons and daughters, not those of the handful of the Brexit wealthy, that are being characterised in the song, for me.
    How very contrarian of you :wink:

    Truth is, there are no great 'Leave' pop songs so I guess you are free to appropriate whatever you want.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,285
    edited February 2020

    HYUFD said:

    Brexit songs

    Most Remainey John Lennon's Imagine

    Most Leavey Pulp's Common People

    WTF?! How is Common People a "Leavey" song? A terrible slur on a great song.
    Pulp foresaw the remain/middle class leftist tendency fifteen years before it came to prominence.

    Stuffed with people like girl he dates in the song.

    The point being, they cannot know, comprehend or represent the working class, even if they want to.
    If you think the girl from Greece is middle (not upper) class you need to recalibrate your scale.

    Today's 'common people' are precisely the ones who have been shafted by the Brexit-supporting super-wealthy elite (e.g. Barclay brothers, Murdoch, Bamford, Wetherspoon, Dyson, Rees-Mogg,... I could go on).
    The common people voted for Brexit in large part to reduce immigration, much to the disgust of much of the elite
    And the surprise of the elite. They thought the working class liked them and supported them because, like so many middle class labour politicians, they 'empathised' while living in expensive houses. Like the girl in the song.

    And as the song says, in the end the working classes weren't singing along with them, they were laughing at them.

    And voting against them
    You seem to be confusing 'elite' with 'middle class' here when surely these two are mutually exclusive.

    Which is it you don't like the elite or the middle classes?

    And were the working classes also voting against the Leave-supporting subsets of the elite and/or the middle class?

    Brexit wasn't about class, it was a crystallisation of two contrasting world-views (liberal internationalist versus conservative parochial) which co-exist in roughly equal proportions in our country.
    No you are confusing elite with upper class.

    Would you consider Tony Blair, John Major, Lord Adonis, Tom Watson, Emily Thornbery and others to be upper class? They themselves certainly would not. And yet they are what we commonly refer to as the elite. And they are certainly wealthy.

    Its their sons and daughters, not those of the handful of the Brexit wealthy, that are being characterised in the song, for me.
    How very contrarian of you :wink:

    Truth is, there are no great 'Leave' pop songs so I guess you are free to appropriate whatever you want.
    What about “I will survive”?

    Edit: actually that is more useful as a new EU anthem...
  • Mr. Pointer, because it's English, you silly sausage.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    kinabalu said:

    Blur: Remain
    Oasis: Leave

    That certainly works. And I prefer Oasis. Thus confirming beyond all reasonable doubt my thesis that everyone - even the most enlightened of sensibilities - has a bit of Leave in them.

    Do not like Grandad by Clive Dunn though. Don't like that one iota.
    Grandad is the most apt suggestion for a Leave song I have heard so far.

    And yes, it is totally shite.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    edited February 2020
    Lennon said:

    Was trying to think of the most Sunderland band - and only came up with Lauren Laverne who doesn't strike me as being particularly leave... so instead...

    Catatonia: Leave
    Sleeper: Remain

    I'm probably showing my age but The Toy Dolls (Nellie the Elephant) and Dave Stewart (Eurythmics) spring to mind more than Kenickie does.

    None of them except possibly the Toy Dolls scream Leave to me.

    Also Cerys Matthews voting Leave????
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    Mr. Pointer, because it's English, you silly sausage.

    So you'd be ok with the Cross of St. George but not the Union Jack as an icon for English?
  • Language options for websites sometimes have the stars and stripes symbol for English.

    A lot do it 50/50 diagonally with both the Stars and Stripes and the Union Flag which I find quite fitting really for the modern world.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited February 2020
    A couple of caveats: That poll was commissioned by Sinn Féin, and Survation don't have experience in polling for Irish elections.

    Having said that, it looks quite plausible and is similar to the most recent Ipsos MRB poll, except that it has Fine Gael lower.
  • Language options for websites sometimes have the stars and stripes symbol for English.

    Shocking that the Cross of St George isn't the default symbol.
  • Why this continuing obsession with Iowa which frankly has become a tad boring?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    Anyone suggested this Leave classic yet?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN7r0Rr1Qyc
  • Why this continuing obsession with Iowa which frankly has become a tad boring?

    Some of us have money on it!!!!!
  • novanova Posts: 692

    Straw in the Labour wind - Liam Byrne wins easily with 3105 first pref votes as candidate for West Midlands mayor - he is traditional centre-left, but had John McDonnell's backing. Selma Yaqoob, who had in the past stood against Labour for a left-wing party but this time had Momentum, Unite and Owen Jones backing, came third with 1809 (Pete Lowe, who I don't know, came second).

    Quite a low turnout on these figures, I'd think, but it shows the limited reach of Momentum and Unite in corralling members' votes. We listen to advice but vote as individuals - the idea that Momentum (of which I'm a member) is a monolithic bloc is misplaced/

    They certainly had success with the NEC slates they promoted - although the benefit there is that most voters don't know who they're voting for, so are more likely to follow advice.

    I suspect now that the "brand" is somewhat tainted - and even those on the Labour left would see their endorsement as a negative. Go back a couple of years, and supporting Momentum's candidates was an important way to fight back against those undermining Corbyn. Now, even most of his fans seem to see Corbyn as not quite the messiah, and of the people around him, none have anything like his popularity.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    If this is true, it is very sad and quite worrying.

    Coronavirus not just killing those with other serious underlying health issues...

    https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/1225428566931718144?s=20
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,864
    Kate Forbes speaking quite well in presenting the budget. Taxes not being increased in Scotland again but there is a chance that the differential will increase once more if there are IT cuts in the UK budget. Given the spending commitments that seems unlikely.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153

    Anyone suggested this Leave classic yet?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN7r0Rr1Qyc

    It's a catchy tune, no question.
  • Mr. Pointer, technically, it perhaps should be. But England is part of the UK, and the cross of Saint George is part of the British flag.

    I'm surprised you didn't know that.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    eek said:

    Fat Boy Slim: Remain
    The Beautiful South: Leave

    I can't see Paul Heaton actually caring that much about Europe.

    Actually scrub that he travels to write in Rotterdam so I suspect he would have been remain.
    The Paul Heaton who wrote the line "crap into your union Jack and wrap it round your head"? Not a leaver, i don't think.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,864

    If this is true, it is very sad and quite worrying.

    Coronavirus not just killing those with other serious underlying health issues...

    https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/1225428566931718144?s=20

    The picture is indeed very mixed and not a little confusing. Deaths of people like this are hard to reconcile with the current mortality rate.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    If this is true, it is very sad and quite worrying.

    Coronavirus not just killing those with other serious underlying health issues...

    https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/1225428566931718144?s=20

    IF you listen to the globalists its enormous sprawling autocratic blocs like this that are the future. They always win, apparently, and should be given in to at all times. Smaller countries have no chance, even in concert with each other.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    kinabalu said:


    Most Remainy - Angel Eyes - Wet Wet Wet.
    Most Leavey - Grandad - Clive Dunn.

    Most remainy: 99 red balloons
    Most leavey: Fat bottomed girls
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,219

    Is there anyone other than Sanders supporters calling him cheating Pete?

    No.

    Trump, by the way, will likely jump on the "Cheating Pete" monkier. It may stick, it may not.

    Out in the real world, the Trump acquital utterly dominates headlines, TV news, and newspapers.

    In New Hampshire, the Union Leader (which is the biggest newspaper in the State) is leading on...

    Literally nothing to do with Iowa.

    The stories are:

    - Trump acquited
    - Buttigieg says he can win NH
    - Democrats in NH says primary will be no repeat of NH

    That's it. There are zero headlines about Iowa and "cheating Pete".

    In the New York Times, the front page is almost entirely about Trump's impeachment. And, of course, there's a story about the celebration in Trump's Washington Hotel. There is a small story on "Near Tie in Iowa Caucuses".

    Buttigieg has been lucky. The story of his victory came first. And then the impeachment.

    But the reality is - as I said 36 hours ago when we though that it was Buttigieg-Sanders-Warren - that the two leading candidates got nine delegates each.

    Nine each. They are both exactly the same number of delegates along in the race to the nomination. That isn't going to change. And the other thing that matters is that Biden flopped. He was a poor fourth. He was almost fifth. He was poorly organised, and connected badly with voters. That matters more than whether it was Sanders first, or Buttigieg first.
  • DavidL said:

    If this is true, it is very sad and quite worrying.

    Coronavirus not just killing those with other serious underlying health issues...

    https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/1225428566931718144?s=20

    The picture is indeed very mixed and not a little confusing. Deaths of people like this are hard to reconcile with the current mortality rate.
    The lack of much mortality outside of China so far makes me feel that the rate is about right. There's hundreds of confirmed cases outside of China now so if the mortality figures were vastly different shouldn't we have evidence of that by now?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    DavidL said:

    If this is true, it is very sad and quite worrying.

    Coronavirus not just killing those with other serious underlying health issues...

    https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/1225428566931718144?s=20

    The picture is indeed very mixed and not a little confusing. Deaths of people like this are hard to reconcile with the current mortality rate.
    He may have had some underlying illness that he was not aware of..
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,219

    If this is true, it is very sad and quite worrying.

    Coronavirus not just killing those with other serious underlying health issues...

    https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/1225428566931718144?s=20

    IF you listen to the globalists its enormous sprawling autocratic blocs like this that are the future. They always win, apparently, and should be given in to at all times. Smaller countries have no chance, even in concert with each other.
    Which globalists in particular? I'd be really interested to see the analysis?

    (Personally, I agree that small countries, competing with each other in the same way that firms compete with each other should always win. Simply, it's competition to see which can have best best policy, and that will always win out. But you're engaging in lazy straw man characterisation.)
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,864

    DavidL said:

    If this is true, it is very sad and quite worrying.

    Coronavirus not just killing those with other serious underlying health issues...

    https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/1225428566931718144?s=20

    The picture is indeed very mixed and not a little confusing. Deaths of people like this are hard to reconcile with the current mortality rate.
    The lack of much mortality outside of China so far makes me feel that the rate is about right. There's hundreds of confirmed cases outside of China now so if the mortality figures were vastly different shouldn't we have evidence of that by now?
    It would depend how long the illness lasts. How many of those outside China are now cured? I am aware some are but I am not sure how many. As @Foxy pointed out that is how mortality should properly be measured.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,864

    DavidL said:

    If this is true, it is very sad and quite worrying.

    Coronavirus not just killing those with other serious underlying health issues...

    https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/1225428566931718144?s=20

    The picture is indeed very mixed and not a little confusing. Deaths of people like this are hard to reconcile with the current mortality rate.
    He may have had some underlying illness that he was not aware of..
    It's possible.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,219
    eek said:

    Lennon said:

    Was trying to think of the most Sunderland band - and only came up with Lauren Laverne who doesn't strike me as being particularly leave... so instead...

    Catatonia: Leave
    Sleeper: Remain

    I'm probably showing my age but The Toy Dolls (Nellie the Elephant) and Dave Stewart (Eurythmics) spring to mind more than Kenickie does.

    None of them except possibly the Toy Dolls scream Leave to me.

    Also Cerys Matthews voting Leave????
    Doesn't she live in Nashville?
  • rawzerrawzer Posts: 189

    Anyone suggested this Leave classic yet?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN7r0Rr1Qyc

    This is always my No1 nomination for most frightening 5 minutes of film in movie history. 'Here's Jonny' doesn't really cut the mustard
  • One thing that should be of concern is the reports of the crematoriums in Wuhan are working 24/7 in order to keep up with demand.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    If this is true, it is very sad and quite worrying.

    Coronavirus not just killing those with other serious underlying health issues...

    https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/1225428566931718144?s=20

    IF you listen to the globalists its enormous sprawling autocratic blocs like this that are the future. They always win, apparently, and should be given in to at all times. Smaller countries have no chance, even in concert with each other.
    ...smaller countries in concert with each other...

    Maybe we should for some sort of alliance with those other small countries, our neighbours in Europe?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    rawzer said:

    Anyone suggested this Leave classic yet?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN7r0Rr1Qyc

    This is always my No1 nomination for most frightening 5 minutes of film in movie history. 'Here's Jonny' doesn't really cut the mustard
    I agree, very scary. Made more so because, if you disregard the subject matter, it's such a great song.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,468
    SF can't get more than35 or so seats though, can they? Due to insufficient candidates.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    One thing that should be of concern is the reports of the crematoriums in Wuhan are working 24/7 in order to keep up with demand.


    Are such reports verifiable?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729

    One thing that should be of concern is the reports of the crematoriums in Wuhan are working 24/7 in order to keep up with demand.

    Given the population size of China, that's probably a normal state of affairs...
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rcs1000 said:

    If this is true, it is very sad and quite worrying.

    Coronavirus not just killing those with other serious underlying health issues...

    https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/1225428566931718144?s=20

    IF you listen to the globalists its enormous sprawling autocratic blocs like this that are the future. They always win, apparently, and should be given in to at all times. Smaller countries have no chance, even in concert with each other.
    Which globalists in particular? I'd be really interested to see the analysis?

    (Personally, I agree that small countries, competing with each other in the same way that firms compete with each other should always win. Simply, it's competition to see which can have best best policy, and that will always win out. But you're engaging in lazy straw man characterisation.)
    It also seems a bit irrelevant. Do they win by having better coronaviruses?
  • rawzerrawzer Posts: 189

    rawzer said:

    Anyone suggested this Leave classic yet?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN7r0Rr1Qyc

    This is always my No1 nomination for most frightening 5 minutes of film in movie history. 'Here's Jonny' doesn't really cut the mustard
    I agree, very scary. Made more so because, if you disregard the subject matter, it's such a great song.
    Watching it again the old bloke who has seen it all before is a classy component. But yea the devil has all the best tunes.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720

    I have to say I detest God Save The Queen/King & Jerusalem, both are bloody dirges.

    Hopefully England can have its own national anthem in my lifetime.

    Bohemian Rhapsody or Tubthumping would do it for me, as would I Vow To Thee My Country in the right circumstances.

    Beethoven himself appreciated God save the king and Rule Britannia.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,121
    edited February 2020

    One thing that should be of concern is the reports of the crematoriums in Wuhan are working 24/7 in order to keep up with demand.


    Are such reports verifiable?
    It could be BS, but a number of mainstream media outlets have published this story. There has also been workers publishing live streams / photos of all the bodies queued up as they struggle to keep up with demand. Again it could all be fake / overstating the problem.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231
    Anorak said:

    Most remainy: 99 red balloons
    Most leavey: Fat bottomed girls

    That's very good. Much better than mine. And - yet again - I prefer the Leavey one*. Do I actually have more than a "bit of Leave" in me? Am I actually possessed of a far less enlightened sensibility than I make out? I do hope that's not the case.

    * Although I still really dislike Clive Dunn's Grandad. The song, that is. The chap himself was no doubt a great guy who did his level best for himself and his family back when the country was a far tougher place than it is today in most respects.
  • One thing that should be of concern is the reports of the crematoriums in Wuhan are working 24/7 in order to keep up with demand.

    Given the population size of China, that's probably a normal state of affairs...
    No, the report is that isn't the case at all. It is that they can't keep up with demand and have been operating 24/7 for the past week or so. Now the fact the government is saying all deaths must be cremated I am sure is adding demand.

    I am not suggesting there is a big cover up or anything.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited February 2020

    rawzer said:

    Anyone suggested this Leave classic yet?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN7r0Rr1Qyc

    This is always my No1 nomination for most frightening 5 minutes of film in movie history. 'Here's Jonny' doesn't really cut the mustard
    I agree, very scary. Made more so because, if you disregard the subject matter, it's such a great song.
    That's why it's great art, it's not a strawman but a faithful reproduction of the power of propaganda in that era.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,468

    Mr. Contrarian, must admit I really dislike Imagine. It drips with hypocrisy.

    "Imagine there's no money," sang the millionaire, playing his piano, in his mansion.


    I don't think he was rich when he wrote it.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,864

    Mr. Contrarian, must admit I really dislike Imagine. It drips with hypocrisy.

    "Imagine there's no money," sang the millionaire, playing his piano, in his mansion.


    I don't think he was rich when he wrote it.
    Was it not post Beatles? He was super rich.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492

    BigRich said:

    Fortunately, i understand, she lost the labour party contest, I have not seen the full results, but would be interested if anybody has them.

    Here you go:

    https://twitter.com/matt_hfoster/status/1225408893951627266
    That seems a prity low turnout, does anybody know what the tern out was 3 years ago for the same election?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,602
    "Little Britain: comedy from a less uptight age

    It’s only been off the air for 15 years, and already it’s ‘problematic’."

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/02/06/little-britain-comedy-from-a-less-uptight-age/
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,468
    rawzer said:

    rawzer said:

    Anyone suggested this Leave classic yet?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN7r0Rr1Qyc

    This is always my No1 nomination for most frightening 5 minutes of film in movie history. 'Here's Jonny' doesn't really cut the mustard
    I agree, very scary. Made more so because, if you disregard the subject matter, it's such a great song.
    Watching it again the old bloke who has seen it all before is a classy component. But yea the devil has all the best tunes.
    I was wondering about him. Couldn't make out whether he was Erich Remarque (All Quiet etc) or supposed to be Jewish and realising his time was up.
  • King Cole, "Lennon composed "Imagine" one morning in early 1971"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imagine_(John_Lennon_song)#Composition_and_writing
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    DavidL said:

    Mr. Contrarian, must admit I really dislike Imagine. It drips with hypocrisy.

    "Imagine there's no money," sang the millionaire, playing his piano, in his mansion.


    I don't think he was rich when he wrote it.
    Was it not post Beatles? He was super rich.
    Lennon/McCartney have always intrigued me. Together so good, apart so pants.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231
    edited February 2020
    Nigelb said:

    In the primaries, or the general ?
    In a contest against Trump, I wouldn't even hesitate.

    Me neither. And to show that this is not just because my politics are close to people like Sanders and Warren - and hence an easy choice - I would vote for the wackiest of right wing libertarians (assuming they were a decent person) over Trump. Man has to go.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127

    Brexit songs

    Most Remainey John Lennon's Imagine

    Most Leavey Pulp's Common People

    She studied Brexit at St Hopkins College,
    She told me she had a thirst for knowledge,
    I said ah.

    She told me she had dual nationality,
    She'd seen the figure on the bus you see,
    She said "Leave"

    And then in thirty seconds time I said

    "You'll never live like Remain people,
    Youll never be trapped in a border you don't need
    You'll never use words within their actual meaning,
    You'll never have to do things you find demeaning

    Your dad will always pay your deposit
    Your mum will tell you that they caused it
    There is always a they for you to blame,
    And you'll prosper just the same

    You'll never work like Remain people
    You'll never see your freedom slide out of view
    And then work all night til two
    Because your bills are paid for you"

    (Sorry, couldn't resist it... :) )




  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    Andy_JS said:

    "Little Britain: comedy from a less uptight age

    It’s only been off the air for 15 years, and already it’s ‘problematic’."

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/02/06/little-britain-comedy-from-a-less-uptight-age/

    Honestly, as a full-time wheelchair user, I tried several times to find it funny but never could. Call me a miserable git if you like but it always made me feel uncomfortable.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    Lennon said:

    Was trying to think of the most Sunderland band - and only came up with Lauren Laverne who doesn't strike me as being particularly leave... so instead...

    Catatonia: Leave
    Sleeper: Remain

    I'm probably showing my age but The Toy Dolls (Nellie the Elephant) and Dave Stewart (Eurythmics) spring to mind more than Kenickie does.

    None of them except possibly the Toy Dolls scream Leave to me.

    Also Cerys Matthews voting Leave????
    Doesn't she live in Nashville?
    Given she is on 6Music every Sunday morning I don't think so.
  • phiwphiw Posts: 32
    Buttigieg still not officially on his home state of Indiana's Primary Ballot.

    https://www.in.gov/sos/elections/files/2020 Candidate Filings - Feb 5 2020.pdf

    I actually just called the Election department and they told me he still hasn't filed, but he's expected to do so today (with a deadline of noon tomorrow).

    Seems to be cutting it close, can't imagine he couldn't manage 4500 signatures (500 x 9 districts). I guess we'll find out tomorrow!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,468
    DavidL said:

    Mr. Contrarian, must admit I really dislike Imagine. It drips with hypocrisy.

    "Imagine there's no money," sang the millionaire, playing his piano, in his mansion.


    I don't think he was rich when he wrote it.
    Was it not post Beatles? He was super rich.
    You're right. I'm wrong. Actually, according to Wikipedia he gave a lot of credit to Yoko Ono. Who, to be fair, wasn't exactly on the breadline either.
  • rawzerrawzer Posts: 189

    rawzer said:

    rawzer said:

    Anyone suggested this Leave classic yet?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN7r0Rr1Qyc

    This is always my No1 nomination for most frightening 5 minutes of film in movie history. 'Here's Jonny' doesn't really cut the mustard
    I agree, very scary. Made more so because, if you disregard the subject matter, it's such a great song.
    Watching it again the old bloke who has seen it all before is a classy component. But yea the devil has all the best tunes.
    I was wondering about him. Couldn't make out whether he was Erich Remarque (All Quiet etc) or supposed to be Jewish and realising his time was up.
    I was going for the former... 'oh no not again' in true Douglas Adams style
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    Lennon said:

    Was trying to think of the most Sunderland band - and only came up with Lauren Laverne who doesn't strike me as being particularly leave... so instead...

    Catatonia: Leave
    Sleeper: Remain

    I'm probably showing my age but The Toy Dolls (Nellie the Elephant) and Dave Stewart (Eurythmics) spring to mind more than Kenickie does.

    None of them except possibly the Toy Dolls scream Leave to me.

    Also Cerys Matthews voting Leave????
    Doesn't she live in Nashville?
    Off topic but this should suitably scare you. Yesterday while buying some odds and ends in a supermarket Paranoid Android was on the background tape...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231
    IshmaelZ said:

    The Paul Heaton who wrote the line "crap into your union Jack and wrap it round your head"? Not a leaver, i don't think.

    No.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-uUS6bSOP4
This discussion has been closed.