Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Iowa could still go either way with 97% of precincts counted

245

Comments

  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,731
    edited February 2020

    speedy2 said:

    FPT:

    speedy2 said:

    5.

    I

    It will be an entirely different race.
    Especially since he's very likely to win NH, and at that point- if he finishes ahead in Iowa- it's hard to report that as anything except "won the first two states".
    It looks like it will end up with Buttigieg chasing Sanders to the convention to me, with Bloomberg doing his best to cockblock the second but actually ending up cockblocking the first instead.
    Buttigieg isn't going to get a sniff after NH.
    Why?
    Look at how he's been polling in those states. Iowa was demographically a dream for him, his campaign threw all of its resources there, and this was the best he could do. If he maintains his lead in Iowa pulls off an upset in NH then that might just give him a boost, but otherwise he's going to run smack into Nevada and SC where he's polling at an average of 7% and 5%, then limp into super Tuesday with no momentum, dreadful national numbers, and massive liabilities in the minority vote. Basically, he's just not very popular.
    He outperformed expectations in Iowa (where Biden bombed) and is now doing better in NH polling.

    I’m not sure the pre-Iowa polling for Nevada or SC tells you very much, because the other early contests will influence the result there.

    I’m planning to top up on Biden after NH (where I expect him to underperform again) as I expect him to do much better in SC and win.
    It's Iowa. It doesn't look anything like America, let alone the Democratic coalition.

    Other candidates have more chance of staying around longer.
    That’s possible but it’s also possible he becomes the most viable ‘stop Sanders’ candidate.
    After the Iowa fiasco Buttigieg is probably going to become "Cheating Pete" in the public eyes.

    Anyway lets all wait for the N.Hampshire Debate, Biden and Klobuchar are bound to attack him in order to pop his bubble.
    Is there anyone other than Sanders supporters calling him cheating Pete?
    Trump, I'm fairly sure.
    Then again, he's probably in that category.
  • Options
    BigRich said:

    Fortunately, i understand, she lost the labour party contest, I have not seen the full results, but would be interested if anybody has them.

    Here you go:

    https://twitter.com/matt_hfoster/status/1225408893951627266
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,731

    Mr. Contrarian, must admit I really dislike Imagine. It drips with hypocrisy.

    "Imagine there's no money," sang the millionaire, playing his piano, in his mansion.

    Liam Byrne fan, was he ?

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,080
    edited February 2020

    Pulpstar said:

    The overton window is so far to the right in the USA I'd actively think about voting for Sanders or Warren there. Not saying I would, but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand.

    I think it’s much more polarised on identity issues.

    I’d have a problem as I vehemently disagree with both Republican and Democratic positions.
    I would vote for Trump over Sanders or Warren but Bloomberg over Trump, Biden or Buttigieg v Trump I would decide on the day
  • Options
    F1: hmm. The season points finish market has gone from Ladbrokes.

    Surprised the sport hasn't officially axed the Chinese Grand Prix. There's some mumbling about rescheduling.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,080
    edited February 2020

    Brexit songs

    Most Remainey John Lennon's Imagine

    Most Leavey Pulp's Common People

    WTF?! How is Common People a "Leavey" song? A terrible slur on a great song.
    Pulp foresaw the remain/middle class leftist tendency fifteen years before it came to prominence.

    Stuffed with people like girl he dates in the song.

    The point being, they cannot know, comprehend or represent the working class, even if they want to.
    If you think the girl from Greece is middle (not upper) class you need to recalibrate your scale.

    Today's 'common people' are precisely the ones who have been shafted by the Brexit-supporting super-wealthy elite (e.g. Barclay brothers, Murdoch, Bamford, Wetherspoon, Dyson, Rees-Mogg,... I could go on).
    The common people voted for Brexit in large part to reduce immigration, to the disgust of much of the elite
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,720

    Brexit songs

    Most Remainey John Lennon's Imagine

    Most Leavey Pulp's Common People

    WTF?! How is Common People a "Leavey" song? A terrible slur on a great song.
    The right have a habit of appropriating good stuff cos they're bit rubbish on the creative side.
    Too true (Wagner excepted).
  • Options
    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    kinabalu said:

    I know, right? How dare Twitter not ban him for the crime of expressing extremely wide-held opinions...

    Well, quite, that's my point really. That despite all of the nonsense we hear about vulgar reactionaries getting persecuted - silenced and even banged up just for speaking their minds - Fox remains at liberty, both physically and online.
    And yet the first impulse of _his own union_ was to condemn him and thus attempt to destroy his career. Would you approve if lefties lost their livelihoods when they express their own political views?

    As ever, the left champions every kind of diversity as an axiomatic public good - except for diversity of opinion, of course!
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    HYUFD said:

    Brexit songs

    Most Remainey John Lennon's Imagine

    Most Leavey Pulp's Common People

    WTF?! How is Common People a "Leavey" song? A terrible slur on a great song.
    Pulp foresaw the remain/middle class leftist tendency fifteen years before it came to prominence.

    Stuffed with people like girl he dates in the song.

    The point being, they cannot know, comprehend or represent the working class, even if they want to.
    If you think the girl from Greece is middle (not upper) class you need to recalibrate your scale.

    Today's 'common people' are precisely the ones who have been shafted by the Brexit-supporting super-wealthy elite (e.g. Barclay brothers, Murdoch, Bamford, Wetherspoon, Dyson, Rees-Mogg,... I could go on).
    The common people voted for Brexit in large part to reduce immigration, much to the disgust of much of the elite
    And the surprise of the elite. They thought the working class liked them and supported them because, like so many middle class labour politicians, they 'empathised' while living in expensive houses. Like the girl in the song.

    And as the song says, in the end the working classes weren't singing along with them, they were laughing at them.

    And voting against them
  • Options
    Pete vs Bernie, 8.30 am in Iowa. Is there a timetable for the last few results?
  • Options
    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    Brexit songs

    Most Remainey John Lennon's Imagine

    Most Leavey Pulp's Common People

    WTF?! How is Common People a "Leavey" song? A terrible slur on a great song.
    The right have a habit of appropriating good stuff cos they're bit rubbish on the creative side.
    Without the right's dominance of politics and economics, the left would have nothing to inspire their 'creativity'...
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,942

    Pete vs Bernie, 8.30 am in Iowa. Is there a timetable for the last few results?

    Los Angeles, Broward County, Philadelphia and Detroit are sending in the counters.
  • Options

    FPT Ode To Joy is one of the finest pieces of music ever written. You have to be Pavlovian trained by Brexit to dislike it.

    True. If there is time I prefer to hear it in its proper context as the finale of one of the finest symphonies ever written.

    My late grandmother was not a fan, but that was because she thought the soprano line was too high...
  • Options

    speedy2 said:

    FPT:

    speedy2 said:

    5.

    I

    It will be an entirely different race.
    Especially since he's very likely to win NH, and at that point- if he finishes ahead in Iowa- it's hard to report that as anything except "won the first two states".
    It looks like it will end up with Buttigieg chasing Sanders to the convention to me, with Bloomberg doing his best to cockblock the second but actually ending up cockblocking the first instead.
    Buttigieg isn't going to get a sniff after NH.
    Why?
    Look at how he's been polling in those states. Iowa was demographically a dream for him, his campaign threw all of its resources there, and this was the best he could do. If he maintains his lead in Iowa pulls off an upset in NH then that might just give him a boost, but otherwise he's going to run smack into Nevada and SC where he's polling at an average of 7% and 5%, then limp into super Tuesday with no momentum, dreadful national numbers, and massive liabilities in the minority vote. Basically, he's just not very popular.
    He outperformed expectations in Iowa (where Biden bombed) and is now doing better in NH polling.

    I’m not sure the pre-Iowa polling for Nevada or SC tells you very much, because the other early contests will influence the result there.

    I’m planning to top up on Biden after NH (where I expect him to underperform again) as I expect him to do much better in SC and win.
    It's Iowa. It doesn't look anything like America, let alone the Democratic coalition. Buttigieg won in the most unrepresentative places. He's a mid-Westerner who couldn't secure a mid-Western state, if he isn't winning here he isn't going to win much elsewhere.

    Other candidates have more chance of staying around longer.
    That’s possible but it’s also possible he becomes the most viable ‘stop Sanders’ candidate.
    After the Iowa fiasco Buttigieg is probably going to become "Cheating Pete" in the public eyes.

    Anyway lets all wait for the N.Hampshire Debate, Biden and Klobuchar are bound to attack him in order to pop his bubble.
    Is there anyone other than Sanders supporters calling him cheating Pete?
    Isn't this all a bit 'primary school'?
    Trump in particular seems to think that giving a political opponent a nickname is all the political debate that is needed.
  • Options
    If you don't know much about Irish politics, this is the article to read:

    https://www.politico.eu/article/healy-rae-kerry-political-dynasty-irish-election/
  • Options
    ClippPClippP Posts: 1,689
    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The overton window is so far to the right in the USA I'd actively think about voting for Sanders or Warren there. Not saying I would, but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand.

    I think it’s much more polarised on identity issues.
    I’d have a problem as I vehemently disagree with both Republican and Democratic positions.
    I would vote for Trump over Sanders or Warren but Bloomberg over Trump, Biden or Buttigieg v Trump I would decide on the day
    A floating Conservative voter, I see. Where are your principles?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,343

    Are we now in an era where if China, rather than the US, sneezes the world catches cold?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/05/coronavirus-markets-black-swan-dive-chinese-outbreak-economy

    The big effect is going to be on tourism. China provides roughly 16% of the world's tourist "spend". They are not coming. That is going to have quite a devastating effect on not only the likes of Thailand and Malaysia but also Oxford Street and Bond Street. At the moment the damage looks more sectoral than systemic but we would want to see a peak in infections this month if at all possible.
  • Options

    Brexit songs

    Most Remainey John Lennon's Imagine

    Most Leavey Pulp's Common People

    WTF?! How is Common People a "Leavey" song? A terrible slur on a great song.
    Pulp foresaw the remain/middle class leftist tendency fifteen years before it came to prominence.

    Stuffed with people like girl he dates in the song.

    The point being, they cannot know, comprehend or represent the working class, even if they want to.
    If you think the girl from Greece is middle (not upper) class you need to recalibrate your scale.

    Today's 'common people' are precisely the ones who have been shafted by the Brexit-supporting super-wealthy elite (e.g. Barclay brothers, Murdoch, Bamford, Wetherspoon, Dyson, Rees-Mogg,... I could go on).
    Jarvis Cocker described Brexit “an ongoing mental health crisis” for the UK.

    https://www.nme.com/news/music/jarvis-cocker-says-brexit-ongoing-mental-health-crisis-uk-2489758

    Actually I've met Jarvis Cocker a few times, we are both very similar, we are working class kids from Sheffield who have done well out out of life with hard work and our God given talents.
  • Options
    IIRC Jarvis Cocker's mother was a Tory councillor.
  • Options
    Blur: Remain
    Oasis: Leave
  • Options

    Brexit songs

    Most Remainey John Lennon's Imagine

    Most Leavey Pulp's Common People

    WTF?! How is Common People a "Leavey" song? A terrible slur on a great song.
    Pulp foresaw the remain/middle class leftist tendency fifteen years before it came to prominence.

    Stuffed with people like girl he dates in the song.

    The point being, they cannot know, comprehend or represent the working class, even if they want to.
    If you think the girl from Greece is middle (not upper) class you need to recalibrate your scale.

    Today's 'common people' are precisely the ones who have been shafted by the Brexit-supporting super-wealthy elite (e.g. Barclay brothers, Murdoch, Bamford, Wetherspoon, Dyson, Rees-Mogg,... I could go on).
    Jarvis Cocker described Brexit “an ongoing mental health crisis” for the UK.

    https://www.nme.com/news/music/jarvis-cocker-says-brexit-ongoing-mental-health-crisis-uk-2489758

    Actually I've met Jarvis Cocker a few times, we are both very similar, we are working class kids from Sheffield who have done well out out of life with hard work and our God given talents.
    Does Jarvis still live in Paris?
    Innocent face etc.
  • Options
    Fat Boy Slim: Remain
    The Beautiful South: Leave
  • Options
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,720

    Brexit songs

    Most Remainey John Lennon's Imagine

    Most Leavey Pulp's Common People

    WTF?! How is Common People a "Leavey" song? A terrible slur on a great song.
    Pulp foresaw the remain/middle class leftist tendency fifteen years before it came to prominence.

    Stuffed with people like girl he dates in the song.

    The point being, they cannot know, comprehend or represent the working class, even if they want to.
    If you think the girl from Greece is middle (not upper) class you need to recalibrate your scale.

    Today's 'common people' are precisely the ones who have been shafted by the Brexit-supporting super-wealthy elite (e.g. Barclay brothers, Murdoch, Bamford, Wetherspoon, Dyson, Rees-Mogg,... I could go on).
    Jarvis Cocker described Brexit “an ongoing mental health crisis” for the UK.

    https://www.nme.com/news/music/jarvis-cocker-says-brexit-ongoing-mental-health-crisis-uk-2489758

    Actually I've met Jarvis Cocker a few times, we are both very similar, we are working class kids from Sheffield who have done well out out of life with hard work and our God given talents.
    Both similarly hampered by excessive modesty too. :wink:
  • Options

    Brexit songs

    Most Remainey John Lennon's Imagine

    Most Leavey Pulp's Common People

    WTF?! How is Common People a "Leavey" song? A terrible slur on a great song.
    Pulp foresaw the remain/middle class leftist tendency fifteen years before it came to prominence.

    Stuffed with people like girl he dates in the song.

    The point being, they cannot know, comprehend or represent the working class, even if they want to.
    If you think the girl from Greece is middle (not upper) class you need to recalibrate your scale.

    Today's 'common people' are precisely the ones who have been shafted by the Brexit-supporting super-wealthy elite (e.g. Barclay brothers, Murdoch, Bamford, Wetherspoon, Dyson, Rees-Mogg,... I could go on).
    Jarvis Cocker described Brexit “an ongoing mental health crisis” for the UK.

    https://www.nme.com/news/music/jarvis-cocker-says-brexit-ongoing-mental-health-crisis-uk-2489758

    Actually I've met Jarvis Cocker a few times, we are both very similar, we are working class kids from Sheffield who have done well out out of life with hard work and our God given talents.
    Does Jarvis still live in Paris?
    Innocent face etc.
    Pass, I'm in Paris for a city break in July, if I see him, I'll let you know.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,897
    Its funny but would the irish even be happy with that, notwithstanding that it is an official language for them?
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 25,007

    Fat Boy Slim: Remain
    The Beautiful South: Leave

    I can't see Paul Heaton actually caring that much about Europe.

    Actually scrub that he travels to write in Rotterdam so I suspect he would have been remain.
  • Options
    Fake News? Suggestion is that it was an ATM in Ireland.
  • Options
    eek said:

    Fat Boy Slim: Remain
    The Beautiful South: Leave

    I can't see Paul Heaton actually caring that much about Europe.

    Actually scrub that he travels to write in Rotterdam so I suspect he would have been remain.
    IIRC he's very anti Tory and thus anti Brexit.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,720
    edited February 2020

    HYUFD said:

    Brexit songs

    Most Remainey John Lennon's Imagine

    Most Leavey Pulp's Common People

    WTF?! How is Common People a "Leavey" song? A terrible slur on a great song.
    Pulp foresaw the remain/middle class leftist tendency fifteen years before it came to prominence.

    Stuffed with people like girl he dates in the song.

    The point being, they cannot know, comprehend or represent the working class, even if they want to.
    If you think the girl from Greece is middle (not upper) class you need to recalibrate your scale.

    Today's 'common people' are precisely the ones who have been shafted by the Brexit-supporting super-wealthy elite (e.g. Barclay brothers, Murdoch, Bamford, Wetherspoon, Dyson, Rees-Mogg,... I could go on).
    The common people voted for Brexit in large part to reduce immigration, much to the disgust of much of the elite
    And the surprise of the elite. They thought the working class liked them and supported them because, like so many middle class labour politicians, they 'empathised' while living in expensive houses. Like the girl in the song.

    And as the song says, in the end the working classes weren't singing along with them, they were laughing at them.

    And voting against them
    You seem to be confusing 'elite' with 'middle class' here when surely these two are mutually exclusive.

    Which is it you don't like the elite or the middle classes?

    And were the working classes also voting against the Leave-supporting subsets of the elite and/or the middle class?

    Brexit wasn't about class, it was a crystallisation of two contrasting world-views (liberal internationalist versus conservative parochial) which co-exist in roughly equal proportions in our country.
  • Options

    Fake News? Suggestion is that it was an ATM in Ireland.
    Yes, it's a spoof. See also:

    https://wurst.lu/irish-english-replaces-british-english-as-eu-working-language/

  • Options
    The Beatles: Remain
    Gerry and the Pacemakers: Leave
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,942
    Jefferson Airplane: Leave (White rabbit)
    Eagles : Remain (Hotel California)
  • Options
    Language options for websites sometimes have the stars and stripes symbol for English.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,293
    edited February 2020

    Blur: Remain
    Oasis: Leave

    That certainly works. And I prefer Oasis. Thus confirming beyond all reasonable doubt my thesis that everyone - even the most enlightened of sensibilities - has a bit of Leave in them.

    Do not like Grandad by Clive Dunn though. Don't like that one iota.
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    HYUFD said:

    Brexit songs

    Most Remainey John Lennon's Imagine

    Most Leavey Pulp's Common People

    WTF?! How is Common People a "Leavey" song? A terrible slur on a great song.
    Pulp foresaw the remain/middle class leftist tendency fifteen years before it came to prominence.

    Stuffed with people like girl he dates in the song.

    The point being, they cannot know, comprehend or represent the working class, even if they want to.
    If you think the girl from Greece is middle (not upper) class you need to recalibrate your scale.

    Today's 'common people' are precisely the ones who have been shafted by the Brexit-supporting super-wealthy elite (e.g. Barclay brothers, Murdoch, Bamford, Wetherspoon, Dyson, Rees-Mogg,... I could go on).
    The common people voted for Brexit in large part to reduce immigration, much to the disgust of much of the elite
    And the surprise of the elite. They thought the working class liked them and supported them because, like so many middle class labour politicians, they 'empathised' while living in expensive houses. Like the girl in the song.

    And as the song says, in the end the working classes weren't singing along with them, they were laughing at them.

    And voting against them
    You seem to be confusing 'elite' with 'middle class' here when surely these two are mutually exclusive.

    Which is it you don't like the elite or the middle classes?

    And were the working classes also voting against the Leave-supporting subsets of the elite and/or the middle class?

    Brexit wasn't about class, it was a crystallisation of two contrasting world-views (liberal internationalist versus conservative parochial) which co-exist in roughly equal proportions in our country.
    No you are confusing elite with upper class.

    Would you consider Tony Blair, John Major, Lord Adonis, Tom Watson, Emily Thornbery and others to be upper class? They themselves certainly would not. And yet they are what we commonly refer to as the elite. And they are certainly wealthy.

    Its their sons and daughters, not those of the handful of the Brexit wealthy, that are being characterised in the song, for me.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,720

    Language options for websites sometimes very frequently have the stars and stripes symbol for English.

    And why not, given there are c.330m US citizens and only 67m Brits?
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,352
    Straw in the Labour wind - Liam Byrne wins easily with 3105 first pref votes as candidate for West Midlands mayor - he is traditional centre-left, but had John McDonnell's backing. Selma Yaqoob, who had in the past stood against Labour for a left-wing party but this time had Momentum, Unite and Owen Jones backing, came third with 1809 (Pete Lowe, who I don't know, came second).

    Quite a low turnout on these figures, I'd think, but it shows the limited reach of Momentum and Unite in corralling members' votes. We listen to advice but vote as individuals - the idea that Momentum (of which I'm a member) is a monolithic bloc is misplaced/
  • Options
    LennonLennon Posts: 1,735
    Was trying to think of the most Sunderland band - and only came up with Lauren Laverne who doesn't strike me as being particularly leave... so instead...

    Catatonia: Leave
    Sleeper: Remain
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,720

    HYUFD said:

    Brexit songs

    Most Remainey John Lennon's Imagine

    Most Leavey Pulp's Common People

    WTF?! How is Common People a "Leavey" song? A terrible slur on a great song.
    Pulp foresaw the remain/middle class leftist tendency fifteen years before it came to prominence.

    Stuffed with people like girl he dates in the song.

    The point being, they cannot know, comprehend or represent the working class, even if they want to.
    If you think the girl from Greece is middle (not upper) class you need to recalibrate your scale.

    Today's 'common people' are precisely the ones who have been shafted by the Brexit-supporting super-wealthy elite (e.g. Barclay brothers, Murdoch, Bamford, Wetherspoon, Dyson, Rees-Mogg,... I could go on).
    The common people voted for Brexit in large part to reduce immigration, much to the disgust of much of the elite
    And the surprise of the elite. They thought the working class liked them and supported them because, like so many middle class labour politicians, they 'empathised' while living in expensive houses. Like the girl in the song.

    And as the song says, in the end the working classes weren't singing along with them, they were laughing at them.

    And voting against them
    You seem to be confusing 'elite' with 'middle class' here when surely these two are mutually exclusive.

    Which is it you don't like the elite or the middle classes?

    And were the working classes also voting against the Leave-supporting subsets of the elite and/or the middle class?

    Brexit wasn't about class, it was a crystallisation of two contrasting world-views (liberal internationalist versus conservative parochial) which co-exist in roughly equal proportions in our country.
    No you are confusing elite with upper class.

    Would you consider Tony Blair, John Major, Lord Adonis, Tom Watson, Emily Thornbery and others to be upper class? They themselves certainly would not. And yet they are what we commonly refer to as the elite. And they are certainly wealthy.

    Its their sons and daughters, not those of the handful of the Brexit wealthy, that are being characterised in the song, for me.
    How very contrarian of you :wink:

    Truth is, there are no great 'Leave' pop songs so I guess you are free to appropriate whatever you want.
  • Options
    Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,060
    edited February 2020

    HYUFD said:

    Brexit songs

    Most Remainey John Lennon's Imagine

    Most Leavey Pulp's Common People

    WTF?! How is Common People a "Leavey" song? A terrible slur on a great song.
    Pulp foresaw the remain/middle class leftist tendency fifteen years before it came to prominence.

    Stuffed with people like girl he dates in the song.

    The point being, they cannot know, comprehend or represent the working class, even if they want to.
    If you think the girl from Greece is middle (not upper) class you need to recalibrate your scale.

    Today's 'common people' are precisely the ones who have been shafted by the Brexit-supporting super-wealthy elite (e.g. Barclay brothers, Murdoch, Bamford, Wetherspoon, Dyson, Rees-Mogg,... I could go on).
    The common people voted for Brexit in large part to reduce immigration, much to the disgust of much of the elite
    And the surprise of the elite. They thought the working class liked them and supported them because, like so many middle class labour politicians, they 'empathised' while living in expensive houses. Like the girl in the song.

    And as the song says, in the end the working classes weren't singing along with them, they were laughing at them.

    And voting against them
    You seem to be confusing 'elite' with 'middle class' here when surely these two are mutually exclusive.

    Which is it you don't like the elite or the middle classes?

    And were the working classes also voting against the Leave-supporting subsets of the elite and/or the middle class?

    Brexit wasn't about class, it was a crystallisation of two contrasting world-views (liberal internationalist versus conservative parochial) which co-exist in roughly equal proportions in our country.
    No you are confusing elite with upper class.

    Would you consider Tony Blair, John Major, Lord Adonis, Tom Watson, Emily Thornbery and others to be upper class? They themselves certainly would not. And yet they are what we commonly refer to as the elite. And they are certainly wealthy.

    Its their sons and daughters, not those of the handful of the Brexit wealthy, that are being characterised in the song, for me.
    How very contrarian of you :wink:

    Truth is, there are no great 'Leave' pop songs so I guess you are free to appropriate whatever you want.
    What about “I will survive”?

    Edit: actually that is more useful as a new EU anthem...
  • Options
    Mr. Pointer, because it's English, you silly sausage.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,720
    kinabalu said:

    Blur: Remain
    Oasis: Leave

    That certainly works. And I prefer Oasis. Thus confirming beyond all reasonable doubt my thesis that everyone - even the most enlightened of sensibilities - has a bit of Leave in them.

    Do not like Grandad by Clive Dunn though. Don't like that one iota.
    Grandad is the most apt suggestion for a Leave song I have heard so far.

    And yes, it is totally shite.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 25,007
    edited February 2020
    Lennon said:

    Was trying to think of the most Sunderland band - and only came up with Lauren Laverne who doesn't strike me as being particularly leave... so instead...

    Catatonia: Leave
    Sleeper: Remain

    I'm probably showing my age but The Toy Dolls (Nellie the Elephant) and Dave Stewart (Eurythmics) spring to mind more than Kenickie does.

    None of them except possibly the Toy Dolls scream Leave to me.

    Also Cerys Matthews voting Leave????
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,720

    Mr. Pointer, because it's English, you silly sausage.

    So you'd be ok with the Cross of St. George but not the Union Jack as an icon for English?
  • Options

    Language options for websites sometimes have the stars and stripes symbol for English.

    A lot do it 50/50 diagonally with both the Stars and Stripes and the Union Flag which I find quite fitting really for the modern world.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited February 2020
    A couple of caveats: That poll was commissioned by Sinn Féin, and Survation don't have experience in polling for Irish elections.

    Having said that, it looks quite plausible and is similar to the most recent Ipsos MRB poll, except that it has Fine Gael lower.
  • Options

    Language options for websites sometimes have the stars and stripes symbol for English.

    Shocking that the Cross of St George isn't the default symbol.
  • Options
    Why this continuing obsession with Iowa which frankly has become a tad boring?
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,720
    Anyone suggested this Leave classic yet?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN7r0Rr1Qyc
  • Options

    Why this continuing obsession with Iowa which frankly has become a tad boring?

    Some of us have money on it!!!!!
  • Options
    novanova Posts: 525

    Straw in the Labour wind - Liam Byrne wins easily with 3105 first pref votes as candidate for West Midlands mayor - he is traditional centre-left, but had John McDonnell's backing. Selma Yaqoob, who had in the past stood against Labour for a left-wing party but this time had Momentum, Unite and Owen Jones backing, came third with 1809 (Pete Lowe, who I don't know, came second).

    Quite a low turnout on these figures, I'd think, but it shows the limited reach of Momentum and Unite in corralling members' votes. We listen to advice but vote as individuals - the idea that Momentum (of which I'm a member) is a monolithic bloc is misplaced/

    They certainly had success with the NEC slates they promoted - although the benefit there is that most voters don't know who they're voting for, so are more likely to follow advice.

    I suspect now that the "brand" is somewhat tainted - and even those on the Labour left would see their endorsement as a negative. Go back a couple of years, and supporting Momentum's candidates was an important way to fight back against those undermining Corbyn. Now, even most of his fans seem to see Corbyn as not quite the messiah, and of the people around him, none have anything like his popularity.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,720
    If this is true, it is very sad and quite worrying.

    Coronavirus not just killing those with other serious underlying health issues...

    https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/1225428566931718144?s=20
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,343
    Kate Forbes speaking quite well in presenting the budget. Taxes not being increased in Scotland again but there is a chance that the differential will increase once more if there are IT cuts in the UK budget. Given the spending commitments that seems unlikely.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,897

    Anyone suggested this Leave classic yet?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN7r0Rr1Qyc

    It's a catchy tune, no question.
  • Options
    Mr. Pointer, technically, it perhaps should be. But England is part of the UK, and the cross of Saint George is part of the British flag.

    I'm surprised you didn't know that.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    eek said:

    Fat Boy Slim: Remain
    The Beautiful South: Leave

    I can't see Paul Heaton actually caring that much about Europe.

    Actually scrub that he travels to write in Rotterdam so I suspect he would have been remain.
    The Paul Heaton who wrote the line "crap into your union Jack and wrap it round your head"? Not a leaver, i don't think.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,343

    If this is true, it is very sad and quite worrying.

    Coronavirus not just killing those with other serious underlying health issues...

    https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/1225428566931718144?s=20

    The picture is indeed very mixed and not a little confusing. Deaths of people like this are hard to reconcile with the current mortality rate.
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    If this is true, it is very sad and quite worrying.

    Coronavirus not just killing those with other serious underlying health issues...

    https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/1225428566931718144?s=20

    IF you listen to the globalists its enormous sprawling autocratic blocs like this that are the future. They always win, apparently, and should be given in to at all times. Smaller countries have no chance, even in concert with each other.
  • Options
    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    kinabalu said:


    Most Remainy - Angel Eyes - Wet Wet Wet.
    Most Leavey - Grandad - Clive Dunn.

    Most remainy: 99 red balloons
    Most leavey: Fat bottomed girls
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,031

    Is there anyone other than Sanders supporters calling him cheating Pete?

    No.

    Trump, by the way, will likely jump on the "Cheating Pete" monkier. It may stick, it may not.

    Out in the real world, the Trump acquital utterly dominates headlines, TV news, and newspapers.

    In New Hampshire, the Union Leader (which is the biggest newspaper in the State) is leading on...

    Literally nothing to do with Iowa.

    The stories are:

    - Trump acquited
    - Buttigieg says he can win NH
    - Democrats in NH says primary will be no repeat of NH

    That's it. There are zero headlines about Iowa and "cheating Pete".

    In the New York Times, the front page is almost entirely about Trump's impeachment. And, of course, there's a story about the celebration in Trump's Washington Hotel. There is a small story on "Near Tie in Iowa Caucuses".

    Buttigieg has been lucky. The story of his victory came first. And then the impeachment.

    But the reality is - as I said 36 hours ago when we though that it was Buttigieg-Sanders-Warren - that the two leading candidates got nine delegates each.

    Nine each. They are both exactly the same number of delegates along in the race to the nomination. That isn't going to change. And the other thing that matters is that Biden flopped. He was a poor fourth. He was almost fifth. He was poorly organised, and connected badly with voters. That matters more than whether it was Sanders first, or Buttigieg first.
  • Options
    DavidL said:

    If this is true, it is very sad and quite worrying.

    Coronavirus not just killing those with other serious underlying health issues...

    https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/1225428566931718144?s=20

    The picture is indeed very mixed and not a little confusing. Deaths of people like this are hard to reconcile with the current mortality rate.
    The lack of much mortality outside of China so far makes me feel that the rate is about right. There's hundreds of confirmed cases outside of China now so if the mortality figures were vastly different shouldn't we have evidence of that by now?
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,363
    DavidL said:

    If this is true, it is very sad and quite worrying.

    Coronavirus not just killing those with other serious underlying health issues...

    https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/1225428566931718144?s=20

    The picture is indeed very mixed and not a little confusing. Deaths of people like this are hard to reconcile with the current mortality rate.
    He may have had some underlying illness that he was not aware of..
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,031

    If this is true, it is very sad and quite worrying.

    Coronavirus not just killing those with other serious underlying health issues...

    https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/1225428566931718144?s=20

    IF you listen to the globalists its enormous sprawling autocratic blocs like this that are the future. They always win, apparently, and should be given in to at all times. Smaller countries have no chance, even in concert with each other.
    Which globalists in particular? I'd be really interested to see the analysis?

    (Personally, I agree that small countries, competing with each other in the same way that firms compete with each other should always win. Simply, it's competition to see which can have best best policy, and that will always win out. But you're engaging in lazy straw man characterisation.)
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,343

    DavidL said:

    If this is true, it is very sad and quite worrying.

    Coronavirus not just killing those with other serious underlying health issues...

    https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/1225428566931718144?s=20

    The picture is indeed very mixed and not a little confusing. Deaths of people like this are hard to reconcile with the current mortality rate.
    The lack of much mortality outside of China so far makes me feel that the rate is about right. There's hundreds of confirmed cases outside of China now so if the mortality figures were vastly different shouldn't we have evidence of that by now?
    It would depend how long the illness lasts. How many of those outside China are now cured? I am aware some are but I am not sure how many. As @Foxy pointed out that is how mortality should properly be measured.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,343

    DavidL said:

    If this is true, it is very sad and quite worrying.

    Coronavirus not just killing those with other serious underlying health issues...

    https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/1225428566931718144?s=20

    The picture is indeed very mixed and not a little confusing. Deaths of people like this are hard to reconcile with the current mortality rate.
    He may have had some underlying illness that he was not aware of..
    It's possible.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,031
    eek said:

    Lennon said:

    Was trying to think of the most Sunderland band - and only came up with Lauren Laverne who doesn't strike me as being particularly leave... so instead...

    Catatonia: Leave
    Sleeper: Remain

    I'm probably showing my age but The Toy Dolls (Nellie the Elephant) and Dave Stewart (Eurythmics) spring to mind more than Kenickie does.

    None of them except possibly the Toy Dolls scream Leave to me.

    Also Cerys Matthews voting Leave????
    Doesn't she live in Nashville?
  • Options
    rawzerrawzer Posts: 189

    Anyone suggested this Leave classic yet?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN7r0Rr1Qyc

    This is always my No1 nomination for most frightening 5 minutes of film in movie history. 'Here's Jonny' doesn't really cut the mustard
  • Options
    One thing that should be of concern is the reports of the crematoriums in Wuhan are working 24/7 in order to keep up with demand.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,720

    If this is true, it is very sad and quite worrying.

    Coronavirus not just killing those with other serious underlying health issues...

    https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/1225428566931718144?s=20

    IF you listen to the globalists its enormous sprawling autocratic blocs like this that are the future. They always win, apparently, and should be given in to at all times. Smaller countries have no chance, even in concert with each other.
    ...smaller countries in concert with each other...

    Maybe we should for some sort of alliance with those other small countries, our neighbours in Europe?
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,720
    rawzer said:

    Anyone suggested this Leave classic yet?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN7r0Rr1Qyc

    This is always my No1 nomination for most frightening 5 minutes of film in movie history. 'Here's Jonny' doesn't really cut the mustard
    I agree, very scary. Made more so because, if you disregard the subject matter, it's such a great song.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,027
    SF can't get more than35 or so seats though, can they? Due to insufficient candidates.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,720

    One thing that should be of concern is the reports of the crematoriums in Wuhan are working 24/7 in order to keep up with demand.


    Are such reports verifiable?
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,363

    One thing that should be of concern is the reports of the crematoriums in Wuhan are working 24/7 in order to keep up with demand.

    Given the population size of China, that's probably a normal state of affairs...
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rcs1000 said:

    If this is true, it is very sad and quite worrying.

    Coronavirus not just killing those with other serious underlying health issues...

    https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/1225428566931718144?s=20

    IF you listen to the globalists its enormous sprawling autocratic blocs like this that are the future. They always win, apparently, and should be given in to at all times. Smaller countries have no chance, even in concert with each other.
    Which globalists in particular? I'd be really interested to see the analysis?

    (Personally, I agree that small countries, competing with each other in the same way that firms compete with each other should always win. Simply, it's competition to see which can have best best policy, and that will always win out. But you're engaging in lazy straw man characterisation.)
    It also seems a bit irrelevant. Do they win by having better coronaviruses?
  • Options
    rawzerrawzer Posts: 189

    rawzer said:

    Anyone suggested this Leave classic yet?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN7r0Rr1Qyc

    This is always my No1 nomination for most frightening 5 minutes of film in movie history. 'Here's Jonny' doesn't really cut the mustard
    I agree, very scary. Made more so because, if you disregard the subject matter, it's such a great song.
    Watching it again the old bloke who has seen it all before is a classy component. But yea the devil has all the best tunes.
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,176

    I have to say I detest God Save The Queen/King & Jerusalem, both are bloody dirges.

    Hopefully England can have its own national anthem in my lifetime.

    Bohemian Rhapsody or Tubthumping would do it for me, as would I Vow To Thee My Country in the right circumstances.

    Beethoven himself appreciated God save the king and Rule Britannia.

  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2020

    One thing that should be of concern is the reports of the crematoriums in Wuhan are working 24/7 in order to keep up with demand.


    Are such reports verifiable?
    It could be BS, but a number of mainstream media outlets have published this story. There has also been workers publishing live streams / photos of all the bodies queued up as they struggle to keep up with demand. Again it could all be fake / overstating the problem.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,293
    Anorak said:

    Most remainy: 99 red balloons
    Most leavey: Fat bottomed girls

    That's very good. Much better than mine. And - yet again - I prefer the Leavey one*. Do I actually have more than a "bit of Leave" in me? Am I actually possessed of a far less enlightened sensibility than I make out? I do hope that's not the case.

    * Although I still really dislike Clive Dunn's Grandad. The song, that is. The chap himself was no doubt a great guy who did his level best for himself and his family back when the country was a far tougher place than it is today in most respects.
  • Options

    One thing that should be of concern is the reports of the crematoriums in Wuhan are working 24/7 in order to keep up with demand.

    Given the population size of China, that's probably a normal state of affairs...
    No, the report is that isn't the case at all. It is that they can't keep up with demand and have been operating 24/7 for the past week or so. Now the fact the government is saying all deaths must be cremated I am sure is adding demand.

    I am not suggesting there is a big cover up or anything.
  • Options
    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited February 2020

    rawzer said:

    Anyone suggested this Leave classic yet?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN7r0Rr1Qyc

    This is always my No1 nomination for most frightening 5 minutes of film in movie history. 'Here's Jonny' doesn't really cut the mustard
    I agree, very scary. Made more so because, if you disregard the subject matter, it's such a great song.
    That's why it's great art, it's not a strawman but a faithful reproduction of the power of propaganda in that era.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,027

    Mr. Contrarian, must admit I really dislike Imagine. It drips with hypocrisy.

    "Imagine there's no money," sang the millionaire, playing his piano, in his mansion.


    I don't think he was rich when he wrote it.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,343

    Mr. Contrarian, must admit I really dislike Imagine. It drips with hypocrisy.

    "Imagine there's no money," sang the millionaire, playing his piano, in his mansion.


    I don't think he was rich when he wrote it.
    Was it not post Beatles? He was super rich.
  • Options
    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489

    BigRich said:

    Fortunately, i understand, she lost the labour party contest, I have not seen the full results, but would be interested if anybody has them.

    Here you go:

    https://twitter.com/matt_hfoster/status/1225408893951627266
    That seems a prity low turnout, does anybody know what the tern out was 3 years ago for the same election?
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,778
    "Little Britain: comedy from a less uptight age

    It’s only been off the air for 15 years, and already it’s ‘problematic’."

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/02/06/little-britain-comedy-from-a-less-uptight-age/
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,027
    rawzer said:

    rawzer said:

    Anyone suggested this Leave classic yet?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN7r0Rr1Qyc

    This is always my No1 nomination for most frightening 5 minutes of film in movie history. 'Here's Jonny' doesn't really cut the mustard
    I agree, very scary. Made more so because, if you disregard the subject matter, it's such a great song.
    Watching it again the old bloke who has seen it all before is a classy component. But yea the devil has all the best tunes.
    I was wondering about him. Couldn't make out whether he was Erich Remarque (All Quiet etc) or supposed to be Jewish and realising his time was up.
  • Options
    King Cole, "Lennon composed "Imagine" one morning in early 1971"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imagine_(John_Lennon_song)#Composition_and_writing
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    DavidL said:

    Mr. Contrarian, must admit I really dislike Imagine. It drips with hypocrisy.

    "Imagine there's no money," sang the millionaire, playing his piano, in his mansion.


    I don't think he was rich when he wrote it.
    Was it not post Beatles? He was super rich.
    Lennon/McCartney have always intrigued me. Together so good, apart so pants.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,293
    edited February 2020
    Nigelb said:

    In the primaries, or the general ?
    In a contest against Trump, I wouldn't even hesitate.

    Me neither. And to show that this is not just because my politics are close to people like Sanders and Warren - and hence an easy choice - I would vote for the wackiest of right wing libertarians (assuming they were a decent person) over Trump. Man has to go.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,899

    Brexit songs

    Most Remainey John Lennon's Imagine

    Most Leavey Pulp's Common People

    She studied Brexit at St Hopkins College,
    She told me she had a thirst for knowledge,
    I said ah.

    She told me she had dual nationality,
    She'd seen the figure on the bus you see,
    She said "Leave"

    And then in thirty seconds time I said

    "You'll never live like Remain people,
    Youll never be trapped in a border you don't need
    You'll never use words within their actual meaning,
    You'll never have to do things you find demeaning

    Your dad will always pay your deposit
    Your mum will tell you that they caused it
    There is always a they for you to blame,
    And you'll prosper just the same

    You'll never work like Remain people
    You'll never see your freedom slide out of view
    And then work all night til two
    Because your bills are paid for you"

    (Sorry, couldn't resist it... :) )




  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,720
    Andy_JS said:

    "Little Britain: comedy from a less uptight age

    It’s only been off the air for 15 years, and already it’s ‘problematic’."

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/02/06/little-britain-comedy-from-a-less-uptight-age/

    Honestly, as a full-time wheelchair user, I tried several times to find it funny but never could. Call me a miserable git if you like but it always made me feel uncomfortable.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 25,007
    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    Lennon said:

    Was trying to think of the most Sunderland band - and only came up with Lauren Laverne who doesn't strike me as being particularly leave... so instead...

    Catatonia: Leave
    Sleeper: Remain

    I'm probably showing my age but The Toy Dolls (Nellie the Elephant) and Dave Stewart (Eurythmics) spring to mind more than Kenickie does.

    None of them except possibly the Toy Dolls scream Leave to me.

    Also Cerys Matthews voting Leave????
    Doesn't she live in Nashville?
    Given she is on 6Music every Sunday morning I don't think so.
  • Options
    phiwphiw Posts: 32
    Buttigieg still not officially on his home state of Indiana's Primary Ballot.

    https://www.in.gov/sos/elections/files/2020 Candidate Filings - Feb 5 2020.pdf

    I actually just called the Election department and they told me he still hasn't filed, but he's expected to do so today (with a deadline of noon tomorrow).

    Seems to be cutting it close, can't imagine he couldn't manage 4500 signatures (500 x 9 districts). I guess we'll find out tomorrow!
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,027
    DavidL said:

    Mr. Contrarian, must admit I really dislike Imagine. It drips with hypocrisy.

    "Imagine there's no money," sang the millionaire, playing his piano, in his mansion.


    I don't think he was rich when he wrote it.
    Was it not post Beatles? He was super rich.
    You're right. I'm wrong. Actually, according to Wikipedia he gave a lot of credit to Yoko Ono. Who, to be fair, wasn't exactly on the breadline either.
  • Options
    rawzerrawzer Posts: 189

    rawzer said:

    rawzer said:

    Anyone suggested this Leave classic yet?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN7r0Rr1Qyc

    This is always my No1 nomination for most frightening 5 minutes of film in movie history. 'Here's Jonny' doesn't really cut the mustard
    I agree, very scary. Made more so because, if you disregard the subject matter, it's such a great song.
    Watching it again the old bloke who has seen it all before is a classy component. But yea the devil has all the best tunes.
    I was wondering about him. Couldn't make out whether he was Erich Remarque (All Quiet etc) or supposed to be Jewish and realising his time was up.
    I was going for the former... 'oh no not again' in true Douglas Adams style
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 25,007
    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    Lennon said:

    Was trying to think of the most Sunderland band - and only came up with Lauren Laverne who doesn't strike me as being particularly leave... so instead...

    Catatonia: Leave
    Sleeper: Remain

    I'm probably showing my age but The Toy Dolls (Nellie the Elephant) and Dave Stewart (Eurythmics) spring to mind more than Kenickie does.

    None of them except possibly the Toy Dolls scream Leave to me.

    Also Cerys Matthews voting Leave????
    Doesn't she live in Nashville?
    Off topic but this should suitably scare you. Yesterday while buying some odds and ends in a supermarket Paranoid Android was on the background tape...
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,293
    IshmaelZ said:

    The Paul Heaton who wrote the line "crap into your union Jack and wrap it round your head"? Not a leaver, i don't think.

    No.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-uUS6bSOP4
This discussion has been closed.