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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Bernie soars on Betfair after the poll non-release fiasco

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  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    kinabalu said:

    Interesting exchange. Also, reformism is a state of mind framed around the society one sees around one - so it's unreasonable to question whether an 18th century reformer was genuine because one finds that he didn't favour (say) uiniversal suffrage - wanting to get rid of slavery worldwide was a radical policy then.

    This speaks to one of yesterday's conversations. My view is that social progress is almost as inevitable as scientific progress. We get more enlightened with time. Therefore past times always look backward to us but we should not apply our standards retrospectively to conclude they were backward. This would be a false and unfair conclusion. Likewise we should realize that we will appear backward to future times but can hope that they cut us some slack too.

    I think you should try to be a bit ahead of the curve in your own time. Do not just accept things as they are but equally do not get too visionary and bleeding edge. If you do this you don't connect and persuade, you look like a crank or a dreamer. For example, argue for Trans people to be treated with the same dignity and respect as everyone else but do not start questioning the whole construct of gender, claiming it's outdated, that there is no such binary reality as "men" and "women". This might well become an accepted and obvious truth one day - I can certainly imagine it - but for now leave this to the realms of fiction.

    Do YOU think Sanders can beat Trump btw?
    These are technically opposite points- if you believe gender is not a binary reality and is socially constructed, a very common-sense point of view imo, then transgender becomes a much more complex question to say yes to, because people are buying into an (oppressive?) social construct rather than an intrinsic identity.
  • rcs1000 said:

    BigRich said:

    San Jose, is in California and which has been run by left wing politicians for a long time. the homelessness problem in particular is principally a result of regulatory system that stops most new building of houses. go to somewhere with a more relaxed attitude to house building like Texas and homelessness is at or about UK levels.

    The US healthcare system is a mess, agreed, but with 51% of the funding coming from the federal government and a mountain of regulation, at federal, state and even local level, and its hard to call it a failer of the free market. even there there are some good aspects of the US system, I would estimate that a good 60%-80%
    of Americans get better healthcare than in the UK.

    Within the EU, Germany, the Netherlands and Belgium, all have healthcare systems based fare more around competing providers and something approximating a market.and has vastly better results than the NHS. if you want better healthcare this is the way to go, not blindly more tax and more spending.

    I thought homelessness in the US was almost entirely correlated with temperateness of weather? So, Colorado/Denver (left wing government) has very little homelesness because you'd die in winter. And Texas has very little homelessness because you'd die in summer.

    The West Coast is never too hot and never too cold, and therefore even in parts run by the Republicans (like Orange County and historically San Diego), you have lots of homelessness.

    Yep - the homeless tend to die in places where it is frozen for six months of the year!

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231
    edited February 2020
    Nigelb said:

    Any Democrat >can< beat Trump - just that some are more likely to do so than others.

    Yes indeed. "Chances of" is what we're talking really.

    FWIW, the Sanders Betfair implied chance of winning the General IF he gets the nom is 40%.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    rcs1000 said:

    BigRich said:

    San Jose, is in California and which has been run by left wing politicians for a long time. the homelessness problem in particular is principally a result of regulatory system that stops most new building of houses. go to somewhere with a more relaxed attitude to house building like Texas and homelessness is at or about UK levels.

    The US healthcare system is a mess, agreed, but with 51% of the funding coming from the federal government and a mountain of regulation, at federal, state and even local level, and its hard to call it a failer of the free market. even there there are some good aspects of the US system, I would estimate that a good 60%-80%
    of Americans get better healthcare than in the UK.

    Within the EU, Germany, the Netherlands and Belgium, all have healthcare systems based fare more around competing providers and something approximating a market.and has vastly better results than the NHS. if you want better healthcare this is the way to go, not blindly more tax and more spending.

    I thought homelessness in the US was almost entirely correlated with temperateness of weather? So, Colorado/Denver (left wing government) has very little homelesness because you'd die in winter. And Texas has very little homelessness because you'd die in summer.

    The West Coast is never too hot and never too cold, and therefore even in parts run by the Republicans (like Orange County and historically San Diego), you have lots of homelessness.
    You may have something there, climet will undoubtedly have some part to play. but form memory Chicago and New York have a fare amount of homelessness.

    I do think the below equation could and should be the focus of problem.

    Number of people who what to live in a city - number of homes = size of homeless problem.

    When I hear 'that development should be stooped because the developer is only doing it do make money' I just what to screen, sadly this is all to common in California at the moment.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127

    Except that much of the stuff on bird strikes is not borne out by the evidence under the turbine blades, once they have been built. I am led to believe by environmentalists who have actually checked: "carnage" was one word use.

    Evolution. The survivors breed children who are less likely to fly into the rotors. And their children are even less likely. Within a few bird generations the problem goes away.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,381
    EPG said:

    :

    If we want to invest in public services in the UK, if we want to improve infrastructure, if we want to retain the safety net, improve social care for the elderly and so on, then it has to be paid for. That means higher taxes. If Starmer is saying this he is being honest. That is a good thing.

    If we want to improve infrastructure we need to cut the cost. Some sacred elephants need shooting.

    I believe I mentioned before encountering an environmental lawyer who is furious with the current policy on off shore wind development - apparently planning just being approved without multi-year enquiries is morally wrong. It seems that the industry has learnt from early issues and simply includes detailed studies of effects on fish, birds, radar coverage, shipping etc in their plans. Which means that there is sometimes nothing left to oppose with.

    Nimbyism is a much bigger challenge than environmental lawyers.

    Nimbysim is enabled by the anti-development industry. Hence, in France, if you want to build a railway, you do so. There are just as many Nimbys in France. They just don't get legal assistance to hold everything up for half a decade.

    The other issue is the featherbedding of contracts. All the nice little games of layering - subcontracting repeatedly, so that no one layer makes too much profit...
    UK property rights are very strong. Helps NIMBY, but also GIMME. State seizures of property, as in China, make development much easier.
    Nimbyism isn't really the issue - it is the enablement of it by anti-development industry.

    The other issue that I touched on is the "infrastructure inflation" effect. Like the medical inflation effect it needs to be be tackled. Back to the US - read up on some of the opposition to what E. Musk is doing with the Boring Company. It is rather interesting when the vested interests slither into the light.

    For those who don't know - the idea is near total automation of deep tunnel construction. When you add in massive reduction in the volume of material needing to be removed, this adds up to a problem. Problems such as there aren't enough effects on property holders to get the whole enquiry game going properly - and not enough sub contractors to spread the wealth. Which means that politicians wouldn't be getting their fair share either.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,484

    What will a BJ love bombing look like? Him galloping in, ejaculating a few spurious promises of which he will deny paternity when they fail to materialise, then galloping out leaving a few heartbroken Unionists?

    https://twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/1223967815926939651?s=20

    I doubt that Ministers are particularly impressed by 'Scotland Is Now' - it's being wound up because organisations didn't know how to engage with it. It's being replaced by 'Only in Scotland' which is much better. What I hope that the quotation means is that Ministers have gained an appreciation of how the Scottish Government has been shameless in using VisitScotland to set the mood music for its independence campaign rather than actually do its job and attract visitors to Scotland. If this is the case, it's high time, and I am glad they've decided, in whatever form, to speak directly to the people.
  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836
    edited February 2020
    BigRich said:

    rcs1000 said:

    BigRich said:

    San Jose, is in California and which has been run by left wing politicians for a long time. the homelessness problem in particular is principally a result of regulatory system that stops most new building of houses. go to somewhere with a more relaxed attitude to house building like Texas and homelessness is at or about UK levels.

    The US healthcare system is a mess, agreed, but with 51% of the funding coming from the federal government and a mountain of regulation, at federal, state and even local level, and its hard to call it a failer of the free market. even there there are some good aspects of the US system, I would estimate that a good 60%-80%
    of Americans get better healthcare than in the UK.

    Within the EU, Germany, the Netherlands and Belgium, all have healthcare systems based fare more around competing providers and something approximating a market.and has vastly better results than the NHS. if you want better healthcare this is the way to go, not blindly more tax and more spending.

    I thought homelessness in the US was almost entirely correlated with temperateness of weather? So, Colorado/Denver (left wing government) has very little homelesness because you'd die in winter. And Texas has very little homelessness because you'd die in summer.

    The West Coast is never too hot and never too cold, and therefore even in parts run by the Republicans (like Orange County and historically San Diego), you have lots of homelessness.
    You may have something there, climet will undoubtedly have some part to play. but form memory Chicago and New York have a fare amount of homelessness.

    I do think the below equation could and should be the focus of problem.

    Number of people who what to live in a city - number of homes = size of homeless problem.

    When I hear 'that development should be stooped because the developer is only doing it do make money' I just what to screen, sadly this is all to common in California at the moment.
    Many homeless people in the US will migrate seasonally. So they go to Chicago in the summer and then California in the winter. It is good to be in cities with lots of footfall, so condensed urban cores in places like New York and Boston will be more successful for getting donations, while urban sprawls where people travel by car (Dallas, Houston) you won't survive.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868


    Homelessness is a symptom of a much wider malaise, as is opioid addiction, as is endemic obesity, as is the generally poor public infrastructure. The US is an extraordinary country in many ways, but the average European leads a better life than the average American - and lives longer, too.

    Ultimately it's the US attitude of making a person live (or die) by their decisions. There's something to be said for it, but at the same time one can't deny how fucked the US healthcare system is and how private provision of drugs has been a direct cause if the opiod crisis leading to a huge illegal drug crisis with millions of people addicted to crystal meth, fentanyl and other synthetic opioids.

    I also think the US suffers from a chronic lack of politicians giving a shit about the consequences of their decisions. The US left seems to be all about fighting the symptoms (stuff like needle exchanges) rather the actually solving the problems (regulating the ability of doctors to prescribe opiate based painkillers). The US right is way, way to far on the side of living and dying by one's own decisions, there seems to be no route to redemption after a single poor decision or mistake.

    As a society there are Americans who are extremely healthy - physically, mentally and socially. However, it's a society that doesn't value people who make the wrong choices.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,468
    isam said:

    Take everything Keir Starmer says during this campaign with a pinch of salt. He needs to become leader first.

    Out of interest, how did Tony Blair present himself during his leadership campaign?

    Not sure, but when he was aspiring to be MP for Sedgefield, he was presenting himself as someone who thought we should leave what was then the EU


    "Our" ... pro-Europeans ... main opponents in the 1975 poll were a curious alliance of the Left .... Tony Benn et al ......and the Powellite Right.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Am I total idiot?

    If the numbers released from the Iowa poll are true, the Bernie should be sinking in the betting and Warren and Bluttigieg rising.

    Why?

    Because second choices.

    No-one wins the Democratic Iowa caucus - with its 15% hurdle at the precinct level (and sometimes higher in smaller precincts) - on 23%. Yeah, you would win it in the Republican caucus with a field this split. But not in the Democratic one, because second choices.

    To win the Iowa caucuses by a clear margin, Sanders needed Warren to be struggling to be viable. He needed her on 13-14%. Because if she was there, and he was on 25-27%, then he'd pick up the vast majority of her second choices and stroll to victory. But on this poll Warren is likely viable everywhere. Warren, in fact, will be picking up delegates on second choices. She may even have a shout of getting ahead of Sanders.

    So, on this poll, the following candidates are unlikely to get delegates: Klobuchar, Bloomberg, Yang, Steyer, Gabbard. Candidates in the 10-14% range won't get that many delegates either, because they'll miss out on the 15% in most precincts.

    So, we need to ask where the 5% of people who probably wanted to vote for Bloomberg will go. My view is that they will go to the most viable moderate candidate.

    And where will the 10% of voters who supported Klobuchar go? I'd reckon they will split - probably fairly evenly - between Warren and the most viable moderate candidate.

    And what of the 50-60% of the 14% who support Biden? Because in the majority of precincts he won't be viable. Somehow, I think they will mostly find the most viable moderate candidate to vote for.

    Sanders will of course pick up some second choice votes. I'd reckon he gets all the Gabbard votes (say 2%), and perhaps a third of the Yang votes (another 2%).

    But realistically, there are more moderate second choices to share out than there are left wing ones. And Warren being so high in this poll is not great news for him.

    My consistent view has been that - pretty rapidly - the Democratic nomination process would find a moderate champion, and a left wing champion. If either wing took a long time to find their champion, then they would be in trouble. This poll has two viable left wing candidates. (That being said, if Biden is really at 16-17%, then the poll has two viable moderate candidates too. There's a very tight window between success and failure with the 15% hurdle.)

    Make sense. But my view is the polling is a waste of time for the caucus. It could actually be very different on the night.

  • MaxPB said:

    Just saw Trump on 50% in the polls, I find this very unlikely. I don't see how Trump will get 50% in the election, I could see him win with 46% against 47-48% for the opponent.

    I can't see 50% of Americans vote for Trump.

    Must be the Rasmussen Poll, Graded C+ by Nate Silver, who then 'adjusts' it from 50% to 44%.
    Overall all polls, 538 has 51.9% Disapprove to 43.6% Approve of Trump.
    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?ex_cid=rrpromo
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231
    edited February 2020
    EPG said:

    These are technically opposite points- if you believe gender is not a binary reality and is socially constructed, a very common-sense point of view imo, then transgender becomes a much more complex question to say yes to, because people are buying into an (oppressive?) social construct rather than an intrinsic identity.

    Think I get you. TG has become quite a battleground in the "culture war" from what I see on Twitter etc. I am reticent on it because I don't know any TGs and have not done much reading or viewing on the subject. I leave to experts such as Piers Morgan and James Delingpole.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,381
    MaxPB said:


    Homelessness is a symptom of a much wider malaise, as is opioid addiction, as is endemic obesity, as is the generally poor public infrastructure. The US is an extraordinary country in many ways, but the average European leads a better life than the average American - and lives longer, too.

    Ultimately it's the US attitude of making a person live (or die) by their decisions. There's something to be said for it, but at the same time one can't deny how fucked the US healthcare system is and how private provision of drugs has been a direct cause if the opiod crisis leading to a huge illegal drug crisis with millions of people addicted to crystal meth, fentanyl and other synthetic opioids.

    I also think the US suffers from a chronic lack of politicians giving a shit about the consequences of their decisions. The US left seems to be all about fighting the symptoms (stuff like needle exchanges) rather the actually solving the problems (regulating the ability of doctors to prescribe opiate based painkillers). The US right is way, way to far on the side of living and dying by one's own decisions, there seems to be no route to redemption after a single poor decision or mistake.

    As a society there are Americans who are extremely healthy - physically, mentally and socially. However, it's a society that doesn't value people who make the wrong choices.
    "The US left seems to be all about fighting the symptoms (stuff like needle exchanges) rather the actually solving the problems" - which is largely the appeal of Mr Sanders.

    Much of US problems is the use of patches to fix things in a haphazard way. So you can't reform federal contracting because it enables programs where veterans and minorities who run companies get preferential treatment. This is of course used in the most blatant scams.

    Everything is interlinked in a bizarre web of mis-management, cronyism and out of control costs.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    France now 17 0 up on England
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148

    alex_ said:

    RE: 80k salary. Somebody told me the other day that 80k is the going rate for bricklayers in the South West.

    £45 an hour? That's over double the rate that I see.
    The average bricklayer earns £31 800 a year

    https://uk.jobted.com/salary/bricklayer
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Apparently a terrorist related incident in Streatham
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    I’m currently in San Jose, Silicon Valley - the biggest city in the richest place on earth - and the homelessness, the squalor, is unlike anything you see in Europe. This is a country without pity that treats those who fall behind like sub-humans who deserve nothing but contempt.

    For all its many very serious faults, the EU/EEA zone offers its citizens a safety net and opportunities that are just not available to most people on the planet, including most Americans. For me, post-Brexit being pro-European means fighting to ensure that the UK does not Americanise.

    The US is an extraordinary country that leads the world in so many ways, but from healthcare, through education, to welfare, employment rights, life expectancy and the environment, the average European has a far better life than the average American.

    The right wing Brexit elite wants to Americanise the UK. Johnson may talk the language of social democracy, but those behind him in the Commons, in the Tory party in the country and in the right wing media do not believe in it. At some point relatively soon that will matter a hell of a lot.

    If we want to invest in public services in the UK, if we want to improve infrastructure, if we want to retain the safety net, improve social care for the elderly and so on, then it has to be paid for. That means higher taxes. If Starmer is saying this he is being honest. That is a good thing.

    Uncanny knack you have of travelling somewhere and instantly pinpointing a socio-economic problem of that area which is made worse by UK politicians you disagree with and can be remedied by those you like! The Irish border last time wasnt it?!
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    HYUFD said:

    alex_ said:

    RE: 80k salary. Somebody told me the other day that 80k is the going rate for bricklayers in the South West.

    £45 an hour? That's over double the rate that I see.
    The average bricklayer earns £31 800 a year

    https://uk.jobted.com/salary/bricklayer
    And it would be at the lower end of the range in the South West.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    edited February 2020
    rcs1000 said:

    So, we need to ask where the 5% of people who probably wanted to vote for Bloomberg will go. My view is that they will go to the most viable moderate candidate.

    The problem with this is polling that shows only modest differences in second choices from first choices - there are apparently plenty of people who go e.g. 1. Buttigeg 2. Sanders or 1. Warren 2. Klobouchar. From this distance we are seeing them all in terms of ideology, but at the proximity of Iowa causes-goers, who they actually like seems to be a big factor. Buttigieg is a *bit* more transfer-friendly than most, but not massively so. If you believe the limited polling on the subject.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    On that National poll with Trump beating everyone but Biden, IBD has a notoriously Republican lean polling bias, their eve of election poll had Trump winning nationally by 2 points.

    The final IBD 2016 poll had Hillary ahead by 1% and she won the popular vote by 2%, so was almost spot on.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationwide_opinion_polling_for_the_2016_United_States_presidential_election#cite_note-ibd071116-9

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html
    Errr, you linked to a reference saying the IBD poll saying trump leads by 2.
    Nope both had Clinton ahead 43% to 42% in the final IBD poll
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,381
    Stocky said:

    HYUFD said:

    alex_ said:

    RE: 80k salary. Somebody told me the other day that 80k is the going rate for bricklayers in the South West.

    £45 an hour? That's over double the rate that I see.
    The average bricklayer earns £31 800 a year

    https://uk.jobted.com/salary/bricklayer
    And it would be at the lower end of the range in the South West.
    £20 an hour puts you on £35K a year, roughly.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127
    kinabalu said:

    ...experts such as Piers Morgan and James Delingpole....

    It's not often I see the word "experts" attached to those two names... :)

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    HYUFD said:

    France now 17 0 up on England

    Are we Italy in disquise?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited February 2020
    MaxPB said:

    Just saw Trump on 50% in the polls, I find this very unlikely. I don't see how Trump will get 50% in the election, I could see him win with 46% against 47-48% for the opponent.

    I can't see 50% of Americans vote for Trump.

    Trump beats Sanders in the popular vote with IBD 49% to 47% and against Warren hits 50% to her 46%, given both would be the most left-wing Democratic nominee since McGovern who Nixon trounced in 1972 after only narrowly beating Humphrey in 1968 I don't think it impossible Trump hits 50% if either of them wins the nomination

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1223311559625019392?s=20
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590

    HYUFD said:

    France now 17 0 up on England

    Are we Italy in disquise?
    Post world cup hangover. Didn't help that the 3rd referee was unable to correctly work out which arm was which when given 5 goes at the replay.

    Still, we were never going to beat Nigel Owens in Paris.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    isam said:

    I’m currently in San Jose, Silicon Valley - the biggest city in the richest place on earth - and the homelessness, the squalor, is unlike anything you see in Europe. This is a country without pity that treats those who fall behind like sub-humans who deserve nothing but contempt.

    For all its many very serious faults, the EU/EEA zone offers its citizens a safety net and opportunities that are just not available to most people on the planet, including most Americans. For me, post-Brexit being pro-European means fighting to ensure that the UK does not Americanise.

    The US is an extraordinary country that leads the world in so many ways, but from healthcare, through education, to welfare, employment rights, life expectancy and the environment, the average European has a far better life than the average American.

    The right wing Brexit elite wants to Americanise the UK. Johnson may talk the language of social democracy, but those behind him in the Commons, in the Tory party in the country and in the right wing media do not believe in it. At some point relatively soon that will matter a hell of a lot.

    If we want to invest in public services in the UK, if we want to improve infrastructure, if we want to retain the safety net, improve social care for the elderly and so on, then it has to be paid for. That means higher taxes. If Starmer is saying this he is being honest. That is a good thing.

    Uncanny knack you have of travelling somewhere and instantly pinpointing a socio-economic problem of that area which is made worse by UK politicians you disagree with and can be remedied by those you like! The Irish border last time wasnt it?!
    It was a good post from SO. But I suspect he is wrong when he says that: "The right wing Brexit elite wants to Americanise the UK. ".
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    kinabalu said:

    Interesting exchange. Also, reformism is a state of mind framed around the society one sees around one - so it's unreasonable to question whether an 18th century reformer was genuine because one finds that he didn't favour (say) uiniversal suffrage - wanting to get rid of slavery worldwide was a radical policy then.

    This speaks to one of yesterday's conversations. My view is that social progress is almost as inevitable as scientific progress. We get more enlightened with time. Therefore past times always look backward to us but we should not apply our standards retrospectively to conclude they were backward. This would be a false and unfair conclusion. Likewise we should realize that we will appear backward to future times but can hope that they cut us some slack too.

    I think you should try to be a bit ahead of the curve in your own time. Do not just accept things as they are but equally do not get too visionary and bleeding edge. If you do this you don't connect and persuade, you look like a crank or a dreamer. For example, argue for Trans people to be treated with the same dignity and respect as everyone else but do not start questioning the whole construct of gender, claiming it's outdated, that there is no such binary reality as "men" and "women". This might well become an accepted and obvious truth one day - I can certainly imagine it - but for now leave this to the realms of fiction.

    Do YOU think Sanders can beat Trump btw?
    I agree with everything you say!

    Sanders-Trump - dunno, honestly. There are a lot of people who are so viscerally anti-Trump that they'd vote for Mao Tse Tung to get him out, and "socialist" is no longer the deadly insult in America that it used to be, partly because of the disappearance of the Soviet Union, which used to imply that lefties might be followers of a foreign power. But... I wouldn't put the chance higher than 30%.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Floater said:

    Apparently a terrorist related incident in Streatham

    Assailant dead (shot by police) - appears to be a number of stab victims too
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,623
    I guess knocks-on is the plural of knock-on?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited February 2020

    kinabalu said:

    Interesting exchange. Also, reformism is a state of mind framed around the society one sees around one - so it's unreasonable to question whether an 18th century reformer was genuine because one finds that he didn't favour (say) uiniversal suffrage - wanting to get rid of slavery worldwide was a radical policy then.

    This speaks to one of yesterday's conversations. My view is that social progress is almost as inevitable as scientific progress. We get more enlightened with time. Therefore past times always look backward to us but we should not apply our standards retrospectively to conclude they were backward. This would be a false and unfair conclusion. Likewise we should realize that we will appear backward to future times but can hope that they cut us some slack too.

    I think you should try to be a bit ahead of the curve in your own time. Do not just accept things as they are but equally do not get too visionary and bleeding edge. If you do this you don't connect and persuade, you look like a crank or a dreamer. For example, argue for Trans people to be treated with the same dignity and respect as everyone else but do not start questioning the whole construct of gender, claiming it's outdated, that there is no such binary reality as "men" and "women". This might well become an accepted and obvious truth one day - I can certainly imagine it - but for now leave this to the realms of fiction.

    Do YOU think Sanders can beat Trump btw?
    I agree with everything you say!

    Sanders-Trump - dunno, honestly. There are a lot of people who are so viscerally anti-Trump that they'd vote for Mao Tse Tung to get him out, and "socialist" is no longer the deadly insult in America that it used to be, partly because of the disappearance of the Soviet Union, which used to imply that lefties might be followers of a foreign power. But... I wouldn't put the chance higher than 30%.
    40% of Americans now prefer socialism to capitalism but 40% of the vote would still be the lowest percentage for a Democratic nominee since George McGovern got 37.5% in 1972
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/10/america-socialism-capitalism-poll-axios
  • isam said:

    I’m currently in San Jose, Silicon Valley - the biggest city in the richest place on earth - and the homelessness, the squalor, is unlike anything you see in Europe. This is a country without pity that treats those who fall behind like sub-humans who deserve nothing but contempt.

    For all its many very serious faults, the EU/EEA zone offers its citizens a safety net and opportunities that are just not available to most people on the planet, including most Americans. For me, post-Brexit being pro-European means fighting to ensure that the UK does not Americanise.

    The US is an extraordinary country that leads the world in so many ways, but from healthcare, through education, to welfare, employment rights, life expectancy and the environment, the average European has a far better life than the average American.

    The right wing Brexit elite wants to Americanise the UK. Johnson may talk the language of social democracy, but those behind him in the Commons, in the Tory party in the country and in the right wing media do not believe in it. At some point relatively soon that will matter a hell of a lot.

    If we want to invest in public services in the UK, if we want to improve infrastructure, if we want to retain the safety net, improve social care for the elderly and so on, then it has to be paid for. That means higher taxes. If Starmer is saying this he is being honest. That is a good thing.

    Uncanny knack you have of travelling somewhere and instantly pinpointing a socio-economic problem of that area which is made worse by UK politicians you disagree with and can be remedied by those you like! The Irish border last time wasnt it?!

    Yep, it’s outrageous that my views are informed by what I see and experience. As for the Irish border, it turned out that the government agreed with my take and gave the Irish and the EU what they wanted. Having seen it for myself, it was clear that this would have to be the case.

  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    kinabalu said:

    Interesting exchange. Also, reformism is a state of mind framed around the society one sees around one - so it's unreasonable to question whether an 18th century reformer was genuine because one finds that he didn't favour (say) uiniversal suffrage - wanting to get rid of slavery worldwide was a radical policy then.

    This speaks to one of yesterday's conversations. My view is that social progress is almost as inevitable as scientific progress. We get more enlightened with time. Therefore past times always look backward to us but we should not apply our standards retrospectively to conclude they were backward. This would be a false and unfair conclusion. Likewise we should realize that we will appear backward to future times but can hope that they cut us some slack too.

    I think you should try to be a bit ahead of the curve in your own time. Do not just accept things as they are but equally do not get too visionary and bleeding edge. If you do this you don't connect and persuade, you look like a crank or a dreamer. For example, argue for Trans people to be treated with the same dignity and respect as everyone else but do not start questioning the whole construct of gender, claiming it's outdated, that there is no such binary reality as "men" and "women". This might well become an accepted and obvious truth one day - I can certainly imagine it - but for now leave this to the realms of fiction.

    Do YOU think Sanders can beat Trump btw?
    That`s an excellent post. Don`t forget though that transgender activists don`t stop at questioning the construct of gender (which I can get on board with to some extent) but go on to question "the construct" of sex (which I can`t).
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,864
    What on earth has happened to England? Clearly Brexit is at fault.
  • England are going to get stuffed here in the rugby.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,484

    isam said:

    I’m currently in San Jose, Silicon Valley - the biggest city in the richest place on earth - and the homelessness, the squalor, is unlike anything you see in Europe. This is a country without pity that treats those who fall behind like sub-humans who deserve nothing but contempt.

    For all its many very serious faults, the EU/EEA zone offers its citizens a safety net and opportunities that are just not available to most people on the planet, including most Americans. For me, post-Brexit being pro-European means fighting to ensure that the UK does not Americanise.

    The US is an extraordinary country that leads the world in so many ways, but from healthcare, through education, to welfare, employment rights, life expectancy and the environment, the average European has a far better life than the average American.

    The right wing Brexit elite wants to Americanise the UK. Johnson may talk the language of social democracy, but those behind him in the Commons, in the Tory party in the country and in the right wing media do not believe in it. At some point relatively soon that will matter a hell of a lot.

    If we want to invest in public services in the UK, if we want to improve infrastructure, if we want to retain the safety net, improve social care for the elderly and so on, then it has to be paid for. That means higher taxes. If Starmer is saying this he is being honest. That is a good thing.

    Uncanny knack you have of travelling somewhere and instantly pinpointing a socio-economic problem of that area which is made worse by UK politicians you disagree with and can be remedied by those you like! The Irish border last time wasnt it?!

    Yep, it’s outrageous that my views are informed by what I see and experience. As for the Irish border, it turned out that the government agreed with my take and gave the Irish and the EU what they wanted. Having seen it for myself, it was clear that this would have to be the case.

    As with everyone, you see what you expect to see. You think Brexit and right wing people and ideas are awful, so you see everywhere around you examples of how awful they are.
  • Re terrorist incident....photos show the guy who has been shot with a (presume fake) suicide vest.

    Not to make fun of what looks like a serious incident, but in one of the videos the plod have guns draw about to shot the guy and some old biddie walks past with her shopping trolley as if nothing is going on!
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    I`ve just placed a few quid on Buttigieg (for Iowa) at 18/1 with boost with Lads. I`ve based this on his chances with second prefs. I`m not saying he`ll win, but I think his chances are far better than 18/1.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,121
    edited February 2020
    DavidL said:

    What on earth has happened to England? Clearly Brexit is at fault.

    England have been heavily reliant on Big Billy for years now. They aren't the same team without him. Add in the genius of Shaun Edwards defensive organisation now working for the French.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,623
    Jeez. 17-0 at half time and it feels that we got off lightly.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    I’m currently in San Jose, Silicon Valley - the biggest city in the richest place on earth - and the homelessness, the squalor, is unlike anything you see in Europe. This is a country without pity that treats those who fall behind like sub-humans who deserve nothing but contempt.

    For all its many very serious faults, the EU/EEA zone offers its citizens a safety net and opportunities that are just not available to most people on the planet, including most Americans. For me, post-Brexit being pro-European means fighting to ensure that the UK does not Americanise.

    The US is an extraordinary country that leads the world in so many ways, but from healthcare, through education, to welfare, employment rights, life expectancy and the environment, the average European has a far better life than the average American.

    The right wing Brexit elite wants to Americanise the UK. Johnson may talk the language of social democracy, but those behind him in the Commons, in the Tory party in the country and in the right wing media do not believe in it. At some point relatively soon that will matter a hell of a lot.

    If we want to invest in public services in the UK, if we want to improve infrastructure, if we want to retain the safety net, improve social care for the elderly and so on, then it has to be paid for. That means higher taxes. If Starmer is saying this he is being honest. That is a good thing.

    Uncanny knack you have of travelling somewhere and instantly pinpointing a socio-economic problem of that area which is made worse by UK politicians you disagree with and can be remedied by those you like! The Irish border last time wasnt it?!

    Yep, it’s outrageous that my views are informed by what I see and experience. As for the Irish border, it turned out that the government agreed with my take and gave the Irish and the EU what they wanted. Having seen it for myself, it was clear that this would have to be the case.

    Not outrageous, just outrageously coincidental!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,864
    This is an absolutely astonishing video: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-china-51348297/coronavirus10-days-of-hospital-building-in-60-seconds

    It is now 52 days since Boris won his majority. Why are the 40 new hospitals not built already?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,121
    edited February 2020
    Sandpit said:

    Jeez. 17-0 at half time and it feels that we got off lightly.

    We don't even really have game changing replacements to come on either e.g. no Nowell, Slade or Cokanasiga.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,121
    edited February 2020
    DavidL said:

    This is an absolutely astonishing video: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-china-51348297/coronavirus10-days-of-hospital-building-in-60-seconds

    It is now 52 days since Boris won his majority. Why are the 40 new hospitals not built already?

    It amazing what you can do if you don't have to worry about people's rights. Try building anything in the UK and you have to battle the opposite parties, the local NIMBY's, the Eco-warriors....And people won't work more than 10hrs a day, 5 days a week.
  • isam said:

    I’m currently in San Jose, Silicon Valley - the biggest city in the richest place on earth - and the homelessness, the squalor, is unlike anything you see in Europe. This is a country without pity that treats those who fall behind like sub-humans who deserve nothing but contempt.

    For all its many very serious faults, the EU/EEA zone offers its citizens a safety net and opportunities that are just not available to most people on the planet, including most Americans. For me, post-Brexit being pro-European means fighting to ensure that the UK does not Americanise.

    The US is an extraordinary country that leads the world in so many ways, but from healthcare, through education, to welfare, employment rights, life expectancy and the environment, the average European has a far better life than the average American.

    The right wing Brexit elite wants to Americanise the UK. Johnson may talk the language of social democracy, but those behind him in the Commons, in the Tory party in the country and in the right wing media do not believe in it. At some point relatively soon that will matter a hell of a lot.

    If we want to invest in public services in the UK, if we want to improve infrastructure, if we want to retain the safety net, improve social care for the elderly and so on, then it has to be paid for. That means higher taxes. If Starmer is saying this he is being honest. That is a good thing.

    Uncanny knack you have of travelling somewhere and instantly pinpointing a socio-economic problem of that area which is made worse by UK politicians you disagree with and can be remedied by those you like! The Irish border last time wasnt it?!

    Yep, it’s outrageous that my views are informed by what I see and experience. As for the Irish border, it turned out that the government agreed with my take and gave the Irish and the EU what they wanted. Having seen it for myself, it was clear that this would have to be the case.

    As with everyone, you see what you expect to see. You think Brexit and right wing people and ideas are awful, so you see everywhere around you examples of how awful they are.

    I think Brexit is a bad idea. I think capitalism is a good idea that needs to be managed. I don’t think all right wing people are awful. I think they see the world differently to me. I do think some right wing people are awful, though. But over the last few years the individuals I have tended to be most critical of are on the left.

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    HYUFD said:



    40% of Americans now prefer socialism to capitalism but 40% of the vote would still be the lowest percentage for a Democratic nominee since George McGovern got 37.5% in 1972
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/10/america-socialism-capitalism-poll-axios

    Yes, Sanders would lose if he just went for the hardcore vote - his hope would be most of those 40% plus a bunch who think Trump is worse plus some who simply like Sanders personally (he's a very American grassroots type, more so than Trump, despite his leftie views).
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,468
    edited February 2020
    Half-time in Paris: 17-0 to France.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    DavidL said:

    What on earth has happened to England? Clearly Brexit is at fault.

    Brexit is already having a range of unintended consequesnces. For me, since leaving the EU I`ve felt permanently horny. My wife`s had enough of it. She`s furious with Farage.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,121
    edited February 2020
    I am hoping the hand egg later this evening is a better game than this.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,864
    Stocky said:

    DavidL said:

    What on earth has happened to England? Clearly Brexit is at fault.

    Brexit is already having a range of unintended consequesnces. For me, since leaving the EU I`ve felt permanently horny. My wife`s had enough of it. She`s furious with Farage.
    I'd like to say that Scotland has got even wetter but last week was particularly grim.
  • Stocky said:

    DavidL said:

    What on earth has happened to England? Clearly Brexit is at fault.

    Brexit is already having a range of unintended consequesnces. For me, since leaving the EU I`ve felt permanently horny. My wife`s had enough of it. She`s furious with Farage.
    You are SeanT and I claim my £5...
  • isam said:

    isam said:

    I’m currently in San Jose, Silicon Valley - the biggest city in the richest place on earth - and the homelessness, the squalor, is unlike anything you see in Europe. This is a country without pity that treats those who fall behind like sub-humans who deserve nothing but contempt.

    For all its many very serious faults, the EU/EEA zone offers its citizens a safety net and opportunities that are just not available to most people on the planet, including most Americans. For me, post-Brexit being pro-European means fighting to ensure that the UK does not Americanise.

    The US is an extraordinary country that leads the world in so many ways, but from healthcare, through education, to welfare, employment rights, life expectancy and the environment, the average European has a far better life than the average American.

    The right wing Brexit elite wants to Americanise the UK. Johnson may talk the language of social democracy, but those behind him in the Commons, in the Tory party in the country and in the right wing media do not believe in it. At some point relatively soon that will matter a hell of a lot.

    If we want to invest in public services in the UK, if we want to improve infrastructure, if we want to retain the safety net, improve social care for the elderly and so on, then it has to be paid for. That means higher taxes. If Starmer is saying this he is being honest. That is a good thing.

    Uncanny knack you have of travelling somewhere and instantly pinpointing a socio-economic problem of that area which is made worse by UK politicians you disagree with and can be remedied by those you like! The Irish border last time wasnt it?!

    Yep, it’s outrageous that my views are informed by what I see and experience. As for the Irish border, it turned out that the government agreed with my take and gave the Irish and the EU what they wanted. Having seen it for myself, it was clear that this would have to be the case.

    Not outrageous, just outrageously coincidental!

    If you don’t look you won’t see.

  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited February 2020
    isam said:

    I’m currently in San Jose, Silicon Valley - the biggest city in the richest place on earth - and the homelessness, the squalor, is unlike anything you see in Europe. This is a country without pity that treats those who fall behind like sub-humans who deserve nothing but contempt.

    For all its many very serious faults, the EU/EEA zone offers its citizens a safety net and opportunities that are just not available to most people on the planet, including most Americans. For me, post-Brexit being pro-European means fighting to ensure that the UK does not Americanise.

    The US is an extraordinary country that leads the world in so many ways, but from healthcare, through education, to welfare, employment rights, life expectancy and the environment, the average European has a far better life than the average American.

    The right wing Brexit elite wants to Americanise the UK. Johnson may talk the language of social democracy, but those behind him in the Commons, in the Tory party in the country and in the right wing media do not believe in it. At some point relatively soon that will matter a hell of a lot.

    If we want to invest in public services in the UK, if we want to improve infrastructure, if we want to retain the safety net, improve social care for the elderly and so on, then it has to be paid for. That means higher taxes. If Starmer is saying this he is being honest. That is a good thing.

    Uncanny knack you have of travelling somewhere and instantly pinpointing a socio-economic problem of that area which is made worse by UK politicians you disagree with and can be remedied by those you like! The Irish border last time wasnt it?!
    Not to mention the scale of the problem is much worse than it used to be, and it has gotten this bad pretty much universally under deep-blue local legislatures.
  • How does the Republic Iowa caucus work? I mean who bothers to turn up?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148

    HYUFD said:



    40% of Americans now prefer socialism to capitalism but 40% of the vote would still be the lowest percentage for a Democratic nominee since George McGovern got 37.5% in 1972
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/10/america-socialism-capitalism-poll-axios

    Yes, Sanders would lose if he just went for the hardcore vote - his hope would be most of those 40% plus a bunch who think Trump is worse plus some who simply like Sanders personally (he's a very American grassroots type, more so than Trump, despite his leftie views).
    He would hope that but Trump will certainly run attack ads saying Sanders would be a socialist president
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    edited February 2020
    SO said: "I think Brexit is a bad idea. I think capitalism is a good idea that needs to be managed. I don’t think all right wing people are awful. I think they see the world differently to me. I do think some right wing people are awful, though. But over the last few years the individuals I have tended to be most critical of are on the left."



    I pretty much steam down the middle on the left-right thing. Consequently I see "awfulness" at both ends of the spectrum. I`ve grown very tired lately of the right wing = nasty characterisation I have to say.

    It`s got to the stage when some on the left think that simply believing that people should exercise a high level of personal responsibility is in itself a nasty belief.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,468

    Stocky said:

    DavidL said:

    What on earth has happened to England? Clearly Brexit is at fault.

    Brexit is already having a range of unintended consequesnces. For me, since leaving the EU I`ve felt permanently horny. My wife`s had enough of it. She`s furious with Farage.
    You are SeanT and I claim my £5...
    Can't be. SeanT would be boasting about his wife's enjoyment.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,381
    DavidL said:

    This is an absolutely astonishing video: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-china-51348297/coronavirus10-days-of-hospital-building-in-60-seconds

    It is now 52 days since Boris won his majority. Why are the 40 new hospitals not built already?

    A brief study of the history of such *achievements* by dictatorial societies shows that on average, in scientific terms, they are - bullshit.

    When things change in China, I am quite surely that it will turn out that the the hospital in question was unusable, never actually finished, took all the resources for dealing with the real problems. etc.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited February 2020
    A point that I don't think has been made yet.

    If the Coronavirus cannot be contained and the issue rumbles on, this year's primary/election season may well again be dominated by the twin issues of healthcare and borders/societal control, ramped-up to 11 on the dial. This probably helps the hard left Democrats, and Trump.
  • NEW THREAD

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited February 2020

    isam said:

    isam said:

    I’m currently in San Jose, Silicon Valley - the biggest city in the richest place on earth - and the homelessness, the squalor, is unlike anything you see in Europe. This is a country without pity that treats those who fall behind like sub-humans who deserve nothing but contempt.

    For all its many very serious faults, the EU/EEA zone offers its citizens a safety net and opportunities that are just not available to most people on the planet, including most Americans. For me, post-Brexit being pro-European means fighting to ensure that the UK does not Americanise.

    The US is an extraordinary country that leads the world in so many ways, but from healthcare, through education, to welfare, employment rights, life expectancy and the environment, the average European has a far better life than the average American.

    The right wing Brexit elite wants to Americanise the UK. Johnson may talk the language of social democracy, but those behind him in the Commons, in the Tory party in the country and in the right wing media do not believe in it. At some point relatively soon that will matter a hell of a lot.

    If we want to invest in public services in the UK, if we want to improve infrastructure, if we want to retain the safety net, improve social care for the elderly and so on, then it has to be paid for. That means higher taxes. If Starmer is saying this he is being honest. That is a good thing.

    Uncanny knack you have of travelling somewhere and instantly pinpointing a socio-economic problem of that area which is made worse by UK politicians you disagree with and can be remedied by those you like! The Irish border last time wasnt it?!

    Yep, it’s outrageous that my views are informed by what I see and experience. As for the Irish border, it turned out that the government agreed with my take and gave the Irish and the EU what they wanted. Having seen it for myself, it was clear that this would have to be the case.

    Not outrageous, just outrageously coincidental!

    If you don’t look you won’t see.

    I'm with you. When I went to Marbella last year with my mates, the moment I stepped off the plane I could feel the contemptuous, Blairite attitude of Andalucians toward any Catalan who wanted independence. They need the likes of Farage to get a referendum for them, I thought - they could call him "El-Nig". At the time I put it down to a kind of Valium hangover
  • isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    I’m currently in San Jose, Silicon Valley - the biggest city in the richest place on earth - and the homelessness, the squalor, is unlike anything you see in Europe. This is a country without pity that treats those who fall behind like sub-humans who deserve nothing but contempt.

    For all its many very serious faults, the EU/EEA zone offers its citizens a safety net and opportunities that are just not available to most people on the planet, including most Americans. For me, post-Brexit being pro-European means fighting to ensure that the UK does not Americanise.

    The US is an extraordinary country that leads the world in so many ways, but from healthcare, through education, to welfare, employment rights, life expectancy and the environment, the average European has a far better life than the average American.

    The right wing Brexit elite wants to Americanise the UK. Johnson may talk the language of social democracy, but those behind him in the Commons, in the Tory party in the country and in the right wing media do not believe in it. At some point relatively soon that will matter a hell of a lot.

    If we want to invest in public services in the UK, if we want to improve infrastructure, if we want to retain the safety net, improve social care for the elderly and so on, then it has to be paid for. That means higher taxes. If Starmer is saying this he is being honest. That is a good thing.

    Uncanny knack you have of travelling somewhere and instantly pinpointing a socio-economic problem of that area which is made worse by UK politicians you disagree with and can be remedied by those you like! The Irish border last time wasnt it?!

    Yep, it’s outrageous that my views are informed by what I see and experience. As for the Irish border, it turned out that the government agreed with my take and gave the Irish and the EU what they wanted. Having seen it for myself, it was clear that this would have to be the case.

    Not outrageous, just outrageously coincidental!

    If you don’t look you won’t see.

    I'm with you. When I went to Marbella last year with my mates, the moment I stepped off the plane I could feel the contemptuous, Blairite attitude of Andalucians toward any Catalan who wanted independence. They need the likes of Farage to get a referendum for them, I thought. At the time I put it down to a kind of Valium hangover

    Is that right? You should learn some Spanish.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    I’m currently in San Jose, Silicon Valley - the biggest city in the richest place on earth - and the homelessness, the squalor, is unlike anything you see in Europe. This is a country without pity that treats those who fall behind like sub-humans who deserve nothing but contempt.

    For all its many very serious faults, the EU/EEA zone offers its citizens a safety net and opportunities that are just not available to most people on the planet, including most Americans. For me, post-Brexit being pro-European means fighting to ensure that the UK does not Americanise.

    The US is an extraordinary country that leads the world in so many ways, but from healthcare, through education, to welfare, employment rights, life expectancy and the environment, the average European has a far better life than the average American.

    The right wing Brexit elite wants to Americanise the UK. Johnson may talk the language of social democracy, but those behind him in the Commons, in the Tory party in the country and in the right wing media do not believe in it. At some point relatively soon that will matter a hell of a lot.

    If we want to invest in public services in the UK, if we want to improve infrastructure, if we want to retain the safety net, improve social care for the elderly and so on, then it has to be paid for. That means higher taxes. If Starmer is saying this he is being honest. That is a good thing.

    Uncanny knack you have of travelling somewhere and instantly pinpointing a socio-economic problem of that area which is made worse by UK politicians you disagree with and can be remedied by those you like! The Irish border last time wasnt it?!

    Yep, it’s outrageous that my views are informed by what I see and experience. As for the Irish border, it turned out that the government agreed with my take and gave the Irish and the EU what they wanted. Having seen it for myself, it was clear that this would have to be the case.

    Not outrageous, just outrageously coincidental!

    If you don’t look you won’t see.

    I'm with you. When I went to Marbella last year with my mates, the moment I stepped off the plane I could feel the contemptuous, Blairite attitude of Andalucians toward any Catalan who wanted independence. They need the likes of Farage to get a referendum for them, I thought. At the time I put it down to a kind of Valium hangover

    Is that right? You should learn some Spanish.

    Gracias
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,381

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    I’m currently in San Jose, Silicon Valley - the biggest city in the richest place on earth - and the homelessness, the squalor, is unlike anything you see in Europe. This is a country without pity that treats those who fall behind like sub-humans who deserve nothing but contempt.

    For all its many very serious faults, the EU/EEA zone offers its citizens a safety net and opportunities that are just not available to most people on the planet, including most Americans. For me, post-Brexit being pro-European means fighting to ensure that the UK does not Americanise.

    The US is an extraordinary country that leads the world in so many ways, but from healthcare, through education, to welfare, employment rights, life expectancy and the environment, the average European has a far better life than the average American.

    The right wing Brexit elite wants to Americanise the UK. Johnson may talk the language of social democracy, but those behind him in the Commons, in the Tory party in the country and in the right wing media do not believe in it. At some point relatively soon that will matter a hell of a lot.

    If we want to invest in public services in the UK, if we want to improve infrastructure, if we want to retain the safety net, improve social care for the elderly and so on, then it has to be paid for. That means higher taxes. If Starmer is saying this he is being honest. That is a good thing.

    Uncanny knack you have of travelling somewhere and instantly pinpointing a socio-economic problem of that area which is made worse by UK politicians you disagree with and can be remedied by those you like! The Irish border last time wasnt it?!

    Yep, it’s outrageous that my views are informed by what I see and experience. As for the Irish border, it turned out that the government agreed with my take and gave the Irish and the EU what they wanted. Having seen it for myself, it was clear that this would have to be the case.

    Not outrageous, just outrageously coincidental!

    If you don’t look you won’t see.

    I'm with you. When I went to Marbella last year with my mates, the moment I stepped off the plane I could feel the contemptuous, Blairite attitude of Andalucians toward any Catalan who wanted independence. They need the likes of Farage to get a referendum for them, I thought. At the time I put it down to a kind of Valium hangover

    Is that right? You should learn some Spanish.

    Is leg reattachment available on your US travel insurance? How big is your deductible?
  • isam said:

    I’m currently in San Jose, Silicon Valley - the biggest city in the richest place on earth - and the homelessness, the squalor, is unlike anything you see in Europe. This is a country without pity that treats those who fall behind like sub-humans who deserve nothing but contempt.

    For all its many very serious faults, the EU/EEA zone offers its citizens a safety net and opportunities that are just not available to most people on the planet, including most Americans. For me, post-Brexit being pro-European means fighting to ensure that the UK does not Americanise.

    The US is an extraordinary country that leads the world in so many ways, but from healthcare, through education, to welfare, employment rights, life expectancy and the environment, the average European has a far better life than the average American.

    The right wing Brexit elite wants to Americanise the UK. Johnson may talk the language of social democracy, but those behind him in the Commons, in the Tory party in the country and in the right wing media do not believe in it. At some point relatively soon that will matter a hell of a lot.

    If we want to invest in public services in the UK, if we want to improve infrastructure, if we want to retain the safety net, improve social care for the elderly and so on, then it has to be paid for. That means higher taxes. If Starmer is saying this he is being honest. That is a good thing.

    Uncanny knack you have of travelling somewhere and instantly pinpointing a socio-economic problem of that area which is made worse by UK politicians you disagree with and can be remedied by those you like! The Irish border last time wasnt it?!

    Yep, it’s outrageous that my views are informed by what I see and experience. As for the Irish border, it turned out that the government agreed with my take and gave the Irish and the EU what they wanted. Having seen it for myself, it was clear that this would have to be the case.

    Yet you don't mention who controls San Jose.

    So let me point out that it has a Democrat Mayor and a Democrat controlled council.

    While in the wider Santa Clara county all 4 of the US House Reps are Democrats, all 4 of the State Senators are Democrats and all 6 of the State Assembly Reps are Democrats.

    And California as a whole has a Democrat governor, a Democrat majority Senate and a Democrat majority Assembly.

    If you want to blame anyone for the homelessness, squalor and inequality of San Jose I suggest you start with the California Democrat party.
This discussion has been closed.