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  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    HYUFD said:
    I often wonder whether the glowing admiration for Rory Stewart extends beyond Rory himself.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218

    rcs1000 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Incidentally, why has the British government failed to send a single Minister to the commemorations at Auschwitz today? A poor show, frankly. (To put it mildly.)

    There are very few heads of government attending (No Macron, Merkel, the US has sent the Secretary to the Treasury) - there are more heads of State (Austria, Belgium, Germany, Ireland) or their delegates (Norway, Sweden) - so in our case sending the 72 year old wife of the heir to the throne to Poland in a freezing January is not too shabby, especially since the 93 year old head of state is laid up with a cold - many counties have just sent ambassadors:

    http://auschwitz.org/en/state-delegations/
    Pedantic point of order: Merkel is not the German Head of State, that honour goes to Frank-Walter Steinmeier.
    I know - that's why I included her under non-attending Heads of Government, and also noted that Germany had sent its Head of State.
    Oops. Sorry.
  • HYUFD said:
    What ignorance. The company hasn't paid corporation tax because its made a loss.

    How is a lossmaking company a parasite? And what level of corporation tax should a lossmaking company pay?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,864
    Ok, really starting to panic now.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    Cyclefree said:

    I think the EU need to be careful about playing silly buggers with criminal cooperation.

    I had and have no time for the EAW (and in fact @Cyclefree was critiquing it several years ago on here too, as other EU countries don't have the same standards of criminal arrest or trial as the UK) but that's by the by.

    The real issue is how the EU and UK will practically work together to reduce crime. Particularly international organised crime gangs that 'steal or traffick to order', for example.

    The EU's security and intelligence services are also crap, and they rely quite heavily on the UK for this. If they start linking criminal cooperation to other things they might find we do the same thing too.

    The EAW and intelligence-sharing are two different things, though connected. I don’t like the EAW at all. But sharing information is sensible.
    Oh, I quite agree with you.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898
    Afternoon all :)

    A quick diversion to two countries with similar names both facing elections in the near future.

    Slovakia votes on February 29th - the ruling Social Democrats are facing a challenge from the Kotlebists, the Party of Marian Kotleba, who are, as far as I can see, neo-fascist anti-EU, anti-NATO and advocate closer relations with Russia. The latest poll puts the Social Democrats (Smer) on 18% with the Kotlebists on 13% and the For the People Party (the party of the former President Andrej Kiska) on 11%.

    With the resignation of Marjan Sarec, it looks as though Slovenia will also be heading to the polls. Sarec's own LMS party leads the polls and is in a delicate 5-party coalition which barely commands a majority in the Slovenian Parliament.

    The main opposition to the Government is the Slovenian Democratic Party which won most seats (29) in the 2018 election but as all the other parties said they wouldn't work with them they were forced out. They currently trail LMS 19-17 in the polls.

    The Party's leader, Janez Jansa, is a close ally of Hungarian leader Viktor Orban and has also plagiarised a lot of Trump's rhetoric.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    You are way too confident about this. I agree that it will matter who gets the Dem nomination - if it is Sanders or any woman then Trump will win easily. If a non-Sanders male then it`s difficult to call and you may be right - though don`t underestimate the skill and dubiousness on the Rep side when it comes to social marketing (aka manipulating the electorate).

    I`m not being sexist by the way. Personally I`d go for Warren. I just harbour a hypothesis that in my lifetime at least no female leader of a left wing party in US or UK will ever be elected president/PM.

    Female AND left wing too much for people to swallow? Don't know about that. Warren would test the theory obviously. But probably not - she's a long shot for the nom now. Looking like Bernie but I'm far from convinced about that.

    I am too confident on Trump losing, you're right, but I'm nevertheless very confident. One thing I'm not doing, in case you're wondering, is letting what I WANT to happen influence my view. Least I don't think I am. I backed him to win in 2016 at good odds. Ditto no Ref2 and Con landslide. Bets I hoped would prove losers but knew would win.

    But I don't expect my intuition to convince other people on an Internet forum. EYE know I can rival Gypsy Rose Lee when I get a "strong one" - flash of big picture intuition, I mean, not a drink - but they don't know that.
    Your entertaining stream of conciousness leads me to glean - I think - that you believe that the Dems will beat Trump regardless of the nominee. We`ll have to differ on that.

    I, like you, am keen that Trump loses, as his is a simpleton. There are many other reasons - but simpleton is sufficient disqualification I feel without going into further detail.

    However ... a humourous aside, in Lewis`s book (The Fifth Risk) p.29 - when Trump`s surprise win became clear and calls started coming in from world leaders - "the president of Egypt called in to the switchboard at Trump Tower and got the operator to put him straight through to Trump. Trump was like ... "I love the Bangles! You know that song "Walk like an Egyptian?" ...."

    What baffles me is how and why the Republican Party allowed Trump to become a potential candidate in the first place.

    If the Dems priority is to beat Trump (it should be) they need to select Biden.
    The problem the Dems have is that the more voters see of Biden, the less impressed they are with him. Twelve years ago, he was sharp. Now, while the cosmetic surgery has helped him stay looking relatively young, he's not as sharp. He rambles. He's occasionally incoherent.

    But he is still the favourite for the Democratic nomination. He is probably a 40+% chance of being the nominee. And rambling and sane beats rambling and insane.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    edited January 2020
  • viewcode said:

    stodge said:



    There are very few heads of government attending (No Macron, Merkel, the US has sent the Secretary to the Treasury) - there are more heads of State (Austria, Belgium, Germany, Ireland) or their delegates (Norway, Sweden) - so in our case sending the 72 year old wife of the heir to the throne to Poland in a freezing January is not too shabby, especially since the 93 year old head of state is laid up with a cold - many counties have just sent ambassadors:

    http://auschwitz.org/en/state-delegations/

    That's not the point. The UK was in the forefront of defeating the Nazis ans while we didn't liberate Auschwitz-Birkenau directly we were part of the alliance that did.

    It's perfectly possible to send both a royal and a Government representative - the Norwegians have so we could have.

    In my view, we should have - I find the poor representation from BOTH the USA and Russia strange.

    It's a place where the best and worst of humanity co-existed - it must never be forgotten or relegated.
    I find it most bizarre if anything's going to be commented on that the Germans haven't sent a government representative. If anyone should have ensured their top representation went it should surely be the Germans?
    Head of State outranks Head of Government. So they have sent their top man.
    In which case we've sent a representative of our top woman. What's the issue?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    I think the EU need to be careful about playing silly buggers with criminal cooperation.

    I had and have no time for the EAW (and in fact @Cyclefree was critiquing it several years ago on here too, as other EU countries don't have the same standards of criminal arrest or trial as the UK) but that's by the by.

    The real issue is how the EU and UK will practically work together to reduce crime. Particularly international organised crime gangs that 'steal or traffick to order', for example.

    The EU's security and intelligence services are also crap, and they rely quite heavily on the UK for this. If they start linking criminal cooperation to other things they might find we do the same thing too.

    Precisely. This is an area where we are at the very least equal partners. There is no logic for anyone to be absurd on this and if they are then let them cool off without agreement until grown ups take charge from them.
    Your side was threatening/is using citizens rights as leverage. Therefore has no right to criticise the EU for utilising their own leverage.

    What did you expect to happen?
    The blame game already shaping up. Looking forward to 12 months - at least - of:
    "EU are unreasonable"
    "EU shooting themselves in the foot"
    "But it's actually really easy, honest, so it must be someone elses fault"
    "Sabotaged by remainers in the civil service"
    "This behaviour is why we had to leave"
    "Yummy, chlorine is actually my new favourite food"
    etc, etc, etc, etc.
    You mean the new 50p won't sort it? Hugely disappointing.
    Sorry to have been the bearer of such bad news.

    [BTW do the Scottish banks mint their own coins? I've seen the notes but never anything smaller.]
    Nope, I think all coins come from the Royal Mint, albeit with some regional variations in design.

    Haven't seen a £ note for an age. The Ubiquitous Chip (a bar restaurant in the west end of Glasgow) always used to hand them out in their change for some reason.
    My one abiding memory of everyday life in Scotland in the 90s was using those on almost daily basis, but perhaps inflation has eroded the value of that away significantly over the last 20-25 years.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230
    DavidL said:

    Ok, really starting to panic now.

    Coronavirus ?
    Trump ?
    The cricket ?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491

    I think the EU need to be careful about playing silly buggers with criminal cooperation.

    I had and have no time for the EAW (and in fact @Cyclefree was critiquing it several years ago on here too, as other EU countries don't have the same standards of criminal arrest or trial as the UK) but that's by the by.

    The real issue is how the EU and UK will practically work together to reduce crime. Particularly international organised crime gangs that 'steal or traffick to order', for example.

    The EU's security and intelligence services are also crap, and they rely quite heavily on the UK for this. If they start linking criminal cooperation to other things they might find we do the same thing too.

    I think there's a misunderstanding here. It's not a question of the EU playing silly buggers. The EU is the EU: it is a very strange beast, quite unlike any other organisation, and it has to work within the framework of the treaties. It is not a single monolithic decision-making body; some decisions can be taken by the Commission, but others can't.

    One thing the Commission can do is enter into a trade agreement with the UK - but crucially, only if it is exclusively a trade deal and doesn't impinge on rights reserved to member states. Given the ludicrous timetable which Boris has arbitrarily imposed, that means in practice that the only deal we can do is one limited exclusively to trade; there simply is zero chance of getting 27 member states including oddball institutions like the Walloon parliament to ratify anything more ambitious in the few months available.

    So cooperation on crime is likely to fall away by default, and will have to be clawed back country-by-country. This is the direct and inevitable consequence of the Boris timetable.
    Much of that is true but I don't think that's the reason for the EU's approach here.
  • Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    I think the EU need to be careful about playing silly buggers with criminal cooperation.

    I had and have no time for the EAW (and in fact @Cyclefree was critiquing it several years ago on here too, as other EU countries don't have the same standards of criminal arrest or trial as the UK) but that's by the by.

    The real issue is how the EU and UK will practically work together to reduce crime. Particularly international organised crime gangs that 'steal or traffick to order', for example.

    The EU's security and intelligence services are also crap, and they rely quite heavily on the UK for this. If they start linking criminal cooperation to other things they might find we do the same thing too.

    Precisely. This is an area where we are at the very least equal partners. There is no logic for anyone to be absurd on this and if they are then let them cool off without agreement until grown ups take charge from them.
    Your side was threatening/is using citizens rights as leverage. Therefore has no right to criticise the EU for utilising their own leverage.

    What did you expect to happen?
    The blame game already shaping up. Looking forward to 12 months - at least - of:
    "EU are unreasonable"
    "EU shooting themselves in the foot"
    "But it's actually really easy, honest, so it must be someone elses fault"
    "Sabotaged by remainers in the civil service"
    "This behaviour is why we had to leave"
    "Yummy, chlorine is actually my new favourite food"
    etc, etc, etc, etc.
    You mean the new 50p won't sort it? Hugely disappointing.
    Sorry to have been the bearer of such bad news.

    [BTW do the Scottish banks mint their own coins? I've seen the notes but never anything smaller.]
    Nope, I think all coins come from the Royal Mint, albeit with some regional variations in design.

    Haven't seen a £ note for an age. The Ubiquitous Chip (a bar restaurant in the west end of Glasgow) always used to hand them out in their change for some reason.
    My one abiding memory of everyday life in Scotland in the 90s was using those on almost daily basis, but perhaps inflation has eroded the value of that away significantly over the last 20-25 years.
    On checking Wiki, I see RBS £ notes are the only ones in circulation and they stopped making them in 2001. I guess that they're being left to die a natural death.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    rcs1000 said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    Snip

    Female AND left wing too much for people to swallow? Don't know about that. Warren would test the theory obviously. But probably not - she's a long shot for the nom now. Looking like Bernie but I'm far from convinced about that.

    I am too confident on Trump losing, you're right, but I'm nevertheless very confident. One thing I'm not doing, in case you're wondering, is letting what I WANT to happen influence my view. Least I don't think I am. I backed him to win in 2016 at good odds. Ditto no Ref2 and Con landslide. Bets I hoped would prove losers but knew would win.

    But I don't expect my intuition to convince other people on an Internet forum. EYE know I can rival Gypsy Rose Lee when I get a "strong one" - flash of big picture intuition, I mean, not a drink - but they don't know that.
    Your entertaining stream of conciousness leads me to glean - I think - that you believe that the Dems will beat Trump regardless of the nominee. We`ll have to differ on that.

    I, like you, am keen that Trump loses, as his is a simpleton. There are many other reasons - but simpleton is sufficient disqualification I feel without going into further detail.

    However ... a humourous aside, in Lewis`s book (The Fifth Risk) p.29 - when Trump`s surprise win became clear and calls started coming in from world leaders - "the president of Egypt called in to the switchboard at Trump Tower and got the operator to put him straight through to Trump. Trump was like ... "I love the Bangles! You know that song "Walk like an Egyptian?" ...."

    What baffles me is how and why the Republican Party allowed Trump to become a potential candidate in the first place.

    If the Dems priority is to beat Trump (it should be) they need to select Biden.
    The problem the Dems have is that the more voters see of Biden, the less impressed they are with him. Twelve years ago, he was sharp. Now, while the cosmetic surgery has helped him stay looking relatively young, he's not as sharp. He rambles. He's occasionally incoherent.

    But he is still the favourite for the Democratic nomination. He is probably a 40+% chance of being the nominee. And rambling and sane beats rambling and insane.
    To have Biden and Sanders as the two favourites for the Dems makes putting Trump up for re election almost a sane and measured choice for Republicans.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    I think the EU need to be careful about playing silly buggers with criminal cooperation.

    I had and have no time for the EAW (and in fact @Cyclefree was critiquing it several years ago on here too, as other EU countries don't have the same standards of criminal arrest or trial as the UK) but that's by the by.

    The real issue is how the EU and UK will practically work together to reduce crime. Particularly international organised crime gangs that 'steal or traffick to order', for example.

    The EU's security and intelligence services are also crap, and they rely quite heavily on the UK for this. If they start linking criminal cooperation to other things they might find we do the same thing too.

    I think there's a misunderstanding here. It's not a question of the EU playing silly buggers. The EU is the EU: it is a very strange beast, quite unlike any other organisation, and it has to work within the framework of the treaties. It is not a single monolithic decision-making body; some decisions can be taken by the Commission, but others can't.

    One thing the Commission can do is enter into a trade agreement with the UK - but crucially, only if it is exclusively a trade deal and doesn't impinge on rights reserved to member states. Given the ludicrous timetable which Boris has arbitrarily imposed, that means in practice that the only deal we can do is one limited exclusively to trade; there simply is zero chance of getting 27 member states including oddball institutions like the Walloon parliament to ratify anything more ambitious in the few months available.

    So cooperation on crime is likely to fall away by default, and will have to be clawed back country-by-country. This is the direct and inevitable consequence of the Boris timetable.
    Much of that is true but I don't think that's the reason for the EU's approach here.
    Why not? What re your reasons?
  • glwglw Posts: 9,912

    HYUFD said:
    What ignorance. The company hasn't paid corporation tax because its made a loss.

    How is a lossmaking company a parasite? And what level of corporation tax should a lossmaking company pay?
    The Mirror is an utterly moronic newspaper.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited January 2020
    philiph said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    Snip

    Female AND left wing too much for people to swallow? Don't know about that. Warren would test the theory obviously. But probably not - she's a long shot for the nom now. Looking like Bernie but I'm far from convinced about that.

    I am too confident on Trump losing, you're right, but I'm nevertheless very confident. One thing I'm not doing, in case you're wondering, is letting what I WANT to happen influence my view. Least I don't think I am. I backed him to win in 2016 at good odds. Ditto no Ref2 and Con landslide. Bets I hoped would prove losers but knew would win.

    But I don't expect my intuition to convince other people on an Internet forum. EYE know I can rival Gypsy Rose Lee when I get a "strong one" - flash of big picture intuition, I mean, not a drink - but they don't know that.
    Your entertaining stream of conciousness leads me to glean - I think - that you believe that the Dems will beat Trump regardless of the nominee. We`ll have to differ on that.

    I, like you, am keen that Trump loses, as his is a simpleton. There are many other reasons - but simpleton is sufficient disqualification I feel without going into further detail.

    However ... a humourous aside, in Lewis`s book (The Fifth Risk) p.29 - when Trump`s surprise win became clear and calls started coming in from world leaders - "the president of Egypt called in to the switchboard at Trump Tower and got the operator to put him straight through to Trump. Trump was like ... "I love the Bangles! You know that song "Walk like an Egyptian?" ...."

    What baffles me is how and why the Republican Party allowed Trump to become a potential candidate in the first place.

    If the Dems priority is to beat Trump (it should be) they need to select Biden.
    The problem the Dems have is that the more voters see of Biden, the less impressed they are with him. Twelve years ago, he was sharp. Now, while the cosmetic surgery has helped him stay looking relatively young, he's not as sharp. He rambles. He's occasionally incoherent.

    But he is still the favourite for the Democratic nomination. He is probably a 40+% chance of being the nominee. And rambling and sane beats rambling and insane.
    To have Biden and Sanders as the two favourites for the Dems makes putting Trump up for re election almost a sane and measured choice for Republicans.
    In US terms in 2016 Hillary was clearly the centrist candidate against Trump, in 2020 against Sanders Trump could even present himself as the centrist candidate while Sanders and Biden are even older than Hillary was too
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited January 2020


    Don't be so pessimistic. If the 27 countries want a deal on intelligence and crime [and why wouldn't they] then they have an incentive to agree one rapidly.

    This isn't just "countries", it's multiple veto points in each country (lower house + upper house and/or president), and sometimes one of those veto players has an interest in making their government fail.
    None of those veto points have an incentive in vetoing intelligence sharing.

    If an agreement is reached on sharing intelligence and crime data (and they will be linked together) then who do you suggest is going to veto that and want to be responsible for a terrorist or other criminal attack on their ground that could have been prevented?

    Not. Going. To. Happen.
    You'd have to know about the political objectives of all 100 or so veto players to know that, but generally oppositions can find a way to oppose government things in a way that allows them to put the blame for them not happening on the government.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited January 2020
    Stocky said:

    HYUFD said:
    I often wonder whether the glowing admiration for Rory Stewart extends beyond Rory himself.
    He is helped by the Supplementary voting system for London Mayor though which means if he beats Bailey and the LD candidate in the first round he could get their preferences v Khan in the final roumd
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898
    HYUFD said:
    Crime, or rather the fear of crime, or even more rather, the perception crime is out of control, the Police are unable to cope and gangs of feral youths are roaming the streets stabbing anyone who looks at them in the wrong way, is going to be a big issue in the Mayoral campaign.

    Khan inherited Johnson's absurd cuts in stations and officer numbers but he's looked bereft of answers. The only response anyone seems to have is an armed copper on every street corner that someone else has to pay for.

    Crime in London, as it is everywhere, is a multi-layered problem which ties into other issues such as housing and deprivation and don't assume all of London is wealth central. I don't live in a wealthy area - indeed, I'd argue my area is one of the poorest (relatively) in London.

    Gang culture and criminality are big problems and I don't know how they stop being problems - strangely, it's often about identity and wanting to have control over your surroundings and knowing who surrounds you (sounds familiar?) and wanting people like yourself in your locality.

    Bailey will fall back on the traditional Tory answer of blaming Labour and promising thousands of extra officers (unemployment is 3.6%, where are these officers coming from?) and promising a "broken window" approach. Stewart offers some different thinking as does Siobhan Benita and other candidates.
  • HYUFD said:

    Stocky said:

    HYUFD said:
    I often wonder whether the glowing admiration for Rory Stewart extends beyond Rory himself.
    He is helped by the STV voting system for London Mayor though which means if he beats Bailey and the LD candidate in the first round he could get their preferences v Khan in the final roumd
    The London Mayoral election is not conducted under STV but the Supplementary Vote System.

    I guess I'll have to do a thread on voting systems this weekend to help educate you and other PBers.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    DavidL said:

    Ok, really starting to panic now.

    Laid Amy Klobuchar at 770/1?

  • Don't be so pessimistic. If the 27 countries want a deal on intelligence and crime [and why wouldn't they] then they have an incentive to agree one rapidly.

    This isn't just "countries", it's multiple veto points in each country (lower house + upper house and/or president), and sometimes one of those veto players has an interest in making their government fail.
    None of those veto points have an incentive in vetoing intelligence sharing.

    If an agreement is reached on sharing intelligence and crime data (and they will be linked together) then who do you suggest is going to veto that and want to be responsible for a terrorist or other criminal attack on their ground that could have been prevented?

    Not. Going. To. Happen.
    You'd have to know about the political objectives of all 100 or so veto players to know that, but generally oppositions can find a way to oppose government things in a way that allows them to put the blame for them not happening on the government.
    Its nonsense by Brexitsceptics of the same order as the Eurosceptics thinking we can divide and conquer the EU27.

    The EU27 will agree a negotiating mandate for Barnier. Barnier and the UK government will agree a deal, once agreed it will be ratified. End of story.

    The extreme Brexitsceptics and extreme Eurosceptics may wish for something to step in the way but its not going to happen. There's a difference between not agreeing something in the first place, and vetoing an agreement after its been reached. Once Barnier and von der Leyen and Johnson etc say a deal is done that will be it wrapped up. None of the 27 are going to stick their neck on the line and veto an agreed deal, neither is Parliament going to do so.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    Foxes will be pleased
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898
    HYUFD said:



    He is helped by the Supplementary voting system for London Mayor though which means if he beats Bailey and the LD candidate in the first round he could get their preferences v Khan in the final roumd

    Apart from when Livingstone ran as an Independent, no candidate other than Labour or Conservative has finished in the first two in a Mayoral election.

    In December, Labour polled 48% in London, the Conservatives 32% and the LDs 15%. It needs a substantial schism in either the Labour or Conservative votes to allow another candidate to come through.

    IF Stewart could take half the Conservative vote, it may be possible for him to edge out Bailey and Benita but even then he'd need almost every second preference going to beat Khan.

    Bailey may make the first two (probably will) but he won't get the second preferences to get anywhere near Khan who I think wins somewhere between 55-45 and 60-40.

    For all the successes elsewhere, the Conservative vote fell in London though in terms of seats there was no net change between the parties.

  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Reading the Mail, is Thomas Markle a decent punt for the Jungle this December....??
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    wasn't he the one who 'shot' his own fox at yuletide?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    Anything that literally changes Parliamentary democracy and replaces it with JolyonMaugham, yeah I guess that is worth waiting up for.....
  • Van Der Dussen must be feeling sicker than a cyclist with piles.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    felix said:

    wasn't he the one who 'shot' his own fox at yuletide?
    He's a very clubable QC.....
  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836
    HYUFD said:

    philiph said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    Snip

    But I don't expect my intuition to convince other people on an Internet forum. EYE know I can rival Gypsy Rose Lee when I get a "strong one" - flash of big picture intuition, I mean, not a drink - but they don't know that.
    Your entertaining stream of conciousness leads me to glean - I think - that you believe that the Dems will beat Trump regardless of the nominee. We`ll have to differ on that.

    I, like you, am keen that Trump loses, as his is a simpleton. There are many other reasons - but simpleton is sufficient disqualification I feel without going into further detail.

    However ... a humourous aside, in Lewis`s book (The Fifth Risk) p.29 - when Trump`s surprise win became clear and calls started coming in from world leaders - "the president of Egypt called in to the switchboard at Trump Tower and got the operator to put him straight through to Trump. Trump was like ... "I love the Bangles! You know that song "Walk like an Egyptian?" ...."

    What baffles me is how and why the Republican Party allowed Trump to become a potential candidate in the first place.

    If the Dems priority is to beat Trump (it should be) they need to select Biden.
    The problem the Dems have is that the more voters see of Biden, the less impressed they are with him. Twelve years ago, he was sharp. Now, while the cosmetic surgery has helped him stay looking relatively young, he's not as sharp. He rambles. He's occasionally incoherent.

    But he is still the favourite for the Democratic nomination. He is probably a 40+% chance of being the nominee. And rambling and sane beats rambling and insane.
    To have Biden and Sanders as the two favourites for the Dems makes putting Trump up for re election almost a sane and measured choice for Republicans.
    In US terms in 2016 Hillary was clearly the centrist candidate against Trump, in 2020 against Sanders Trump could even present himself as the centrist candidate while Sanders and Biden are even older than Hillary was too
    Trump now has an extremist record. He is a man that blackmails American allies with desperately needed military aid to get them to manufacture dirt on an opponent. He is a man that scraps rules banning mercury in the water supply and asbestos in new buildings. He is a man that allows ISPs to sell your browsing history without your permission. Etc etc.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:



    He is helped by the Supplementary voting system for London Mayor though which means if he beats Bailey and the LD candidate in the first round he could get their preferences v Khan in the final roumd

    Apart from when Livingstone ran as an Independent, no candidate other than Labour or Conservative has finished in the first two in a Mayoral election.

    In December, Labour polled 48% in London, the Conservatives 32% and the LDs 15%. It needs a substantial schism in either the Labour or Conservative votes to allow another candidate to come through.

    IF Stewart could take half the Conservative vote, it may be possible for him to edge out Bailey and Benita but even then he'd need almost every second preference going to beat Khan.

    Bailey may make the first two (probably will) but he won't get the second preferences to get anywhere near Khan who I think wins somewhere between 55-45 and 60-40.

    For all the successes elsewhere, the Conservative vote fell in London though in terms of seats there was no net change between the parties.

    Latest poll has Khan 45% Bailey 23% Stewart 13% Benita 8% Berry 7%, so not completely impossible

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/london-opinion-poll-rory-stewart-leaps-into-third-place-in-mayoralty-race-a4280906.html
  • 98 and out. Ouch.

    There's no sport like Test Cricket.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Another famous journalist distinguishes himself:

    https://twitter.com/michaelwhite/status/1221707720065200128
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    I think the EU need to be careful about playing silly buggers with criminal cooperation.

    I had and have no time for the EAW (and in fact @Cyclefree was critiquing it several years ago on here too, as other EU countries don't have the same standards of criminal arrest or trial as the UK) but that's by the by.

    The real issue is how the EU and UK will practically work together to reduce crime. Particularly international organised crime gangs that 'steal or traffick to order', for example.

    The EU's security and intelligence services are also crap, and they rely quite heavily on the UK for this. If they start linking criminal cooperation to other things they might find we do the same thing too.

    Extradition is a member state competence, I think. If anyone is playing silly buggers it's Germany, Slovakia etc. Point is they are no longer obliged to extradite to the UK when it becomes a third country. Freedom from obligations goes both ways.
    Sandpit said:


    I respectfully disagree. The stated aim of the EU negotiators was to make the UK ‘pay’ for leaving. If we sign up to implement any future EU legislation then every single piece of it will contain a ‘f*** the UK’ clause.

    It's worse than that. The loss of influence means no-one cares what the UK thinks and so it gets ignored. Having a vote makes you more important to any decision-making.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:



    He is helped by the Supplementary voting system for London Mayor though which means if he beats Bailey and the LD candidate in the first round he could get their preferences v Khan in the final roumd

    Apart from when Livingstone ran as an Independent, no candidate other than Labour or Conservative has finished in the first two in a Mayoral election.

    In December, Labour polled 48% in London, the Conservatives 32% and the LDs 15%. It needs a substantial schism in either the Labour or Conservative votes to allow another candidate to come through.

    IF Stewart could take half the Conservative vote, it may be possible for him to edge out Bailey and Benita but even then he'd need almost every second preference going to beat Khan.

    Bailey may make the first two (probably will) but he won't get the second preferences to get anywhere near Khan who I think wins somewhere between 55-45 and 60-40.

    For all the successes elsewhere, the Conservative vote fell in London though in terms of seats there was no net change between the parties.

    Expect Boris to make a big push to help Bailey.
  • Nothing to do with Brexit! Oh wait.

    London has surrendered its position as the world’s top financial centre to New York due in part to uncertainty over Brexit, according to a survey of senior financial services executives.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127
    edited January 2020
    I'm impressed. What possible form would the court case take? Regina vs Jolyon et al (2020): "But you just caaaant!!!"
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited January 2020
    The survey also suggests none of Frankfurt, Paris or Dublin will rival London and New York even after Brexit, with Shanghai now their closest rival
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,678
    edited January 2020
    So those denouncing Klopp yesterday owe him an apology

    So there's a letter dated last March from the Premier League that says

    Under a section of the letter entitled "Activities Club are permitted to undertake during the Mid-Season Player Break", the Premier League has informed "Clubs are expected to honour and respect the underlining rationale for the Mid-Season Player Break, namely to provide their players with a break from the physical and mental rigours of playing matches during the season.

    "Clubs should not arrange competitive or friendly matches with other clubs during the Mid-Season Player Break."


    So looks like Klopp is doing what the authorities told him to do so. So anyone criticising Klopp should aim their ire at the footballing authorities who have placed Klopp & Liverpool in an impossible position, namely scheduling a match when Liverpool were told they cannot play a match.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Nothing to do with Brexit! Oh wait.

    London has surrendered its position as the world’s top financial centre to New York due in part to uncertainty over Brexit, according to a survey of senior financial services executives.
    It was to do with the three and a half year attempt by Remain MPs and Lawyers to sabotage Brexit it seems

    "However Ms Melis suggested that Boris Johnson’s thumping general election victory last month, which has paved the way for the UK’s exit from the EU on Friday, could give London a boost.

    “If this is the primary reason for London’s changing fortunes, then the resolution of the UK’s departure could see it bouncing back,” she added."
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,678
    edited January 2020
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231
    Stocky said:

    Your entertaining stream of conciousness leads me to glean - I think - that you believe that the Dems will beat Trump regardless of the nominee. We`ll have to differ on that.

    I, like you, am keen that Trump loses, as his is a simpleton. There are many other reasons - but simpleton is sufficient disqualification I feel without going into further detail.

    However ... a humourous aside, in Lewis`s book (The Fifth Risk) p.29 - when Trump`s surprise win became clear and calls started coming in from world leaders - "the president of Egypt called in to the switchboard at Trump Tower and got the operator to put him straight through to Trump. Trump was like ... "I love the Bangles! You know that song "Walk like an Egyptian?" ...."

    What baffles me is how and why the Republican Party allowed Trump to become a potential candidate in the first place.

    If the Dems priority is to beat Trump (it should be) they need to select Biden.

    I've read that book too. It's shocking unless one has lost the power to be shocked where Trump is concerned. As many have. He has stolen that faculty from a great many people. We can call it a moral compass. He has committed grand larceny of moral compasses. But - and here I'm attempting to put some supportive flesh on my view of why he is a one term president - lots of those people did not have much of a one to start with. By which I mean his "base" plus those ultra party partisans who would vote Republican if the candidate were ... err ... a moronic racist misogynistic oaf with the emotional maturity of a 12 year old.

    So, OK, those people vote Trump again. But what about the small but significant number of people who DID have a moral compass but went for him in 2016 uneasily but giving the benefit of the doubt, hoping that in office he would cut the crap and turn into a halfway serious and competent leader? These people will have been disappointed. If anything his character and personality has been revealed in office to be even more unsavoury than it appeared on the campaign trail. And so I think this group of voters will not do it again. They know (now) that they did wrong last time and this time they will abstain or vote Dem.

    So he holds Florida with a bigger majority (because of old white demographics) but that is his "Putney" on the night. He loses the Rust Belt plus every other state that is realistically in play. BIG defeat in both PV and EC terms.

    But he will still probably need to be sedated and forcibly removed from the property.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    However Ms Melis suggested that Boris Johnson’s thumping general election victory last month, which has paved the way for the UK’s exit from the EU on Friday, could give London a boost.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914
    mwadams said:

    Anorak said:

    I think the EU need to be careful about playing silly buggers with criminal cooperation.

    I had and have no time for the EAW (and in fact @Cyclefree was critiquing it several years ago on here too, as other EU countries don't have the same standards of criminal arrest or trial as the UK) but that's by the by.

    The real issue is how the EU and UK will practically work together to reduce crime. Particularly international organised crime gangs that 'steal or traffick to order', for example.

    The EU's security and intelligence services are also crap, and they rely quite heavily on the UK for this. If they start linking criminal cooperation to other things they might find we do the same thing too.

    Precisely. This is an area where we are at the very least equal partners. There is no logic for anyone to be absurd on this and if they are then let them cool off without agreement until grown ups take charge from them.
    Your side was threatening/is using citizens rights as leverage. Therefore has no right to criticise the EU for utilising their own leverage.

    What did you expect to happen?
    The blame game already shaping up. Looking forward to 12 months - at least - of:
    "EU are unreasonable"
    "EU shooting themselves in the foot"
    "But it's actually really easy, honest, so it must be someone elses fault"
    "Sabotaged by remainers in the civil service"
    "This behaviour is why we had to leave"
    "Yummy, chlorine is actually my new favourite food"
    etc, etc, etc, etc.
    For all that people have seriously underestimated the effectiveness of the current incarnation of the Tory machine, if there is an area in which they could become unstuck, it is around food standards. People are (mostly excessively) frightened of people messing with their food. From BSE, to GMOs, to "chemicals" a message can land highly unpredictably...
    Plus people generally like the BBC.
    Also Tories should remember that they won bigly because of Corbyn and despite Boris rather than because of him.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352

    I see we're back to business as usual on here this morning, with some of the usual suspects now cheering the EU on from the sidelines for Phase 2.

    This europhile 'period of reflection' after the election shellacking going just as well as Labour's.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    HYUFD said:
    What ignorance. The company hasn't paid corporation tax because its made a loss.

    How is a lossmaking company a parasite? And what level of corporation tax should a lossmaking company pay?
    He a lawyer. One should assume that he is ignorant on finance and tax until proved otherwise. Nonetheless, he, like all lawyers of any stripe, will have strong opinions on any subject that you care to question them on,
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,864
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Ok, really starting to panic now.

    Coronavirus ?
    Trump ?
    The cricket ?
    The cricket obviously. I don't bother with trivia.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    So those denouncing Klopp yesterday owe him an apology

    So there's a letter dated last March from the Premier League that says

    Under a section of the letter entitled "Activities Club are permitted to undertake during the Mid-Season Player Break", the Premier League has informed "Clubs are expected to honour and respect the underlining rationale for the Mid-Season Player Break, namely to provide their players with a break from the physical and mental rigours of playing matches during the season.

    "Clubs should not arrange competitive or friendly matches with other clubs during the Mid-Season Player Break."


    So looks like Klopp is doing what the authorities told him to do so. So anyone criticising Klopp should aim their ire at the footballing authorities who have placed Klopp & Liverpool in an impossible position, namely scheduling a match when Liverpool were told they cannot play a match.

    Until the official dates of the winter break are revealed, this proves nothing. And in any case, it's the FA organising the match, not Liverpool. Perhaps the FA should invoke the rule about the Cup taking priority over the League and postpone the league games of Liverpool and Shrewsbury scheduled for this weekend.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    Your entertaining stream of conciousness leads me to glean - I think - that you believe that the Dems will beat Trump regardless of the nominee. We`ll have to differ on that.

    I, like you, am keen that Trump loses, as his is a simpleton. There are many other reasons - but simpleton is sufficient disqualification I feel without going into further detail.

    However ... a humourous aside, in Lewis`s book (The Fifth Risk) p.29 - when Trump`s surprise win became clear and calls started coming in from world leaders - "the president of Egypt called in to the switchboard at Trump Tower and got the operator to put him straight through to Trump. Trump was like ... "I love the Bangles! You know that song "Walk like an Egyptian?" ...."

    What baffles me is how and why the Republican Party allowed Trump to become a potential candidate in the first place.

    If the Dems priority is to beat Trump (it should be) they need to select Biden.

    I've read that book too. It's shocking unless one has lost the power to be shocked where Trump is concerned. As many have. He has stolen that faculty from a great many people. We can call it a moral compass. He has committed grand larceny of moral compasses. But - and here I'm attempting to put some supportive flesh on my view of why he is a one term president - lots of those people did not have much of a one to start with. By which I mean his "base" plus those ultra party partisans who would vote Republican if the candidate were ... err ... a moronic racist misogynistic oaf with the emotional maturity of a 12 year old.

    So, OK, those people vote Trump again. But what about the small but significant number of people who DID have a moral compass but went for him in 2016 uneasily but giving the benefit of the doubt, hoping that in office he would cut the crap and turn into a halfway serious and competent leader? These people will have been disappointed. If anything his character and personality has been revealed in office to be even more unsavoury than it appeared on the campaign trail. And so I think this group of voters will not do it again. They know (now) that they did wrong last time and this time they will abstain or vote Dem.

    So he holds Florida with a bigger majority (because of old white demographics) but that is his "Putney" on the night. He loses the Rust Belt plus every other state that is realistically in play. BIG defeat in both PV and EC terms.

    But he will still probably need to be sedated and forcibly removed from the property.
    Against Sanders Trump will likely be re elected and add Virginia and Maine to his tally

  • However Ms Melis suggested that Boris Johnson’s thumping general election victory last month, which has paved the way for the UK’s exit from the EU on Friday, could give London a boost.

    isam said:


    However Ms Melis suggested that Boris Johnson’s thumping general election victory last month, which has paved the way for the UK’s exit from the EU on Friday, could give London a boost.

    I see the BJ fans have evolved to almost singing in unison. Time to start a choir?
  • Anyone know when the Russia report is going to be released?

    Coupled with the reported Huawei decision is there any surprise a man named Boris is siding with the Commies?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    A quick diversion to two countries with similar names both facing elections in the near future.

    Slovakia votes on February 29th - the ruling Social Democrats are facing a challenge from the Kotlebists, the Party of Marian Kotleba, who are, as far as I can see, neo-fascist anti-EU, anti-NATO and advocate closer relations with Russia. The latest poll puts the Social Democrats (Smer) on 18% with the Kotlebists on 13% and the For the People Party (the party of the former President Andrej Kiska) on 11%.

    With the resignation of Marjan Sarec, it looks as though Slovenia will also be heading to the polls. Sarec's own LMS party leads the polls and is in a delicate 5-party coalition which barely commands a majority in the Slovenian Parliament.

    The main opposition to the Government is the Slovenian Democratic Party which won most seats (29) in the 2018 election but as all the other parties said they wouldn't work with them they were forced out. They currently trail LMS 19-17 in the polls.

    The Party's leader, Janez Jansa, is a close ally of Hungarian leader Viktor Orban and has also plagiarised a lot of Trump's rhetoric.

    Surely LMS should be part of a "big four" coalition?

    My coat awaits...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609

    Another famous journalist distinguishes himself:

    https://twitter.com/michaelwhite/status/1221707720065200128

    Because.....Kobe Bryant gets second billing? Outrageous......
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    Your entertaining stream of conciousness leads me to glean - I think - that you believe that the Dems will beat Trump regardless of the nominee. We`ll have to differ on that.

    I, like you, am keen that Trump loses, as his is a simpleton. There are many other reasons - but simpleton is sufficient disqualification I feel without going into further detail.

    However ... a humourous aside, in Lewis`s book (The Fifth Risk) p.29 - when Trump`s surprise win became clear and calls started coming in from world leaders - "the president of Egypt called in to the switchboard at Trump Tower and got the operator to put him straight through to Trump. Trump was like ... "I love the Bangles! You know that song "Walk like an Egyptian?" ...."

    What baffles me is how and why the Republican Party allowed Trump to become a potential candidate in the first place.

    If the Dems priority is to beat Trump (it should be) they need to select Biden.

    I've read that book too. It's shocking unless one has lost the power to be shocked where Trump is concerned. As many have. He has stolen that faculty from a great many people. We can call it a moral compass. He has committed grand larceny of moral compasses. But - and here I'm attempting to put some supportive flesh on my view of why he is a one term president - lots of those people did not have much of a one to start with. By which I mean his "base" plus those ultra party partisans who would vote Republican if the candidate were ... err ... a moronic racist misogynistic oaf with the emotional maturity of a 12 year old.

    So, OK, those people vote Trump again. But what about the small but significant number of people who DID have a moral compass but went for him in 2016 uneasily but giving the benefit of the doubt, hoping that in office he would cut the crap and turn into a halfway serious and competent leader? These people will have been disappointed. If anything his character and personality has been revealed in office to be even more unsavoury than it appeared on the campaign trail. And so I think this group of voters will not do it again. They know (now) that they did wrong last time and this time they will abstain or vote Dem.

    So he holds Florida with a bigger majority (because of old white demographics) but that is his "Putney" on the night. He loses the Rust Belt plus every other state that is realistically in play. BIG defeat in both PV and EC terms.

    But he will still probably need to be sedated and forcibly removed from the property.
    If internal polling reveals what you say - i.e. Trump cannot win - I`m expecting him not to run. It is in his nature only to compete when he thinks he will win.

    This is one of the reasons that I`ve laid him at 1.85 and thereabouts, and also had a bit at long odds on Haley to be republican candidate.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I can't believe anyone bothers betting with loose change.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222

    I can't believe anyone bothers betting with loose change.
    kinabalu would have taken that!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    I know someone who had a similar sized bet on him last time.......
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609


    However Ms Melis suggested that Boris Johnson’s thumping general election victory last month, which has paved the way for the UK’s exit from the EU on Friday, could give London a boost.

    isam said:


    However Ms Melis suggested that Boris Johnson’s thumping general election victory last month, which has paved the way for the UK’s exit from the EU on Friday, could give London a boost.

    I see the BJ fans have evolved to almost singing in unison. Time to start a choir?
    When's your fat man singing?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    Someone who is very red on Bernie getting the nomination?
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    glw said:

    HYUFD said:
    What ignorance. The company hasn't paid corporation tax because its made a loss.

    How is a lossmaking company a parasite? And what level of corporation tax should a lossmaking company pay?
    The Mirror is an utterly moronic newspaper.
    Imagine the screeching if they'd turned in a sizeable profit. The tax payment would have been forgotten and it would have been "the profit could have paid for 200 nurses, 100 midwives, and 12 neonatal intensive care beds".

    Not to mention that the outsourcing process was fought so hard that the winner is struggling to make money. That means excellent value for money for the public. See also the trains.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231
    HYUFD said:

    Against Sanders Trump will likely be re elected and add Virginia and Maine to his tally

    You are a sapper of sap sometimes, you are.
  • HYUFD said:

    Stocky said:

    HYUFD said:
    I often wonder whether the glowing admiration for Rory Stewart extends beyond Rory himself.
    He is helped by the Supplementary voting system for London Mayor though which means if he beats Bailey and the LD candidate in the first round he could get their preferences v Khan in the final roumd
    But the SV system depends on predicting who the final two are, which helps Khan since he is the only one who will definitely be in the final two.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Stocky said:


    If internal polling reveals what you say - i.e. Trump cannot win - I`m expecting him not to run. It is in his nature only to compete when he thinks he will win.

    This is one of the reasons that I`ve laid him at 1.85 and thereabouts, and also had a bit at long odds on Haley to be republican candidate.

    Do you think he had polling that told him he'd win last time?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    Stocky said:


    If internal polling reveals what you say - i.e. Trump cannot win - I`m expecting him not to run. It is in his nature only to compete when he thinks he will win.

    This is one of the reasons that I`ve laid him at 1.85 and thereabouts, and also had a bit at long odds on Haley to be republican candidate.

    Do you think he had polling that told him he'd win last time?
    No, but I suspect he viewed the campaign and exposure as a mahoosive boost to the Trump brand. The upside of pursuing a losing campaign is harder to see, this time around.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118


    However Ms Melis suggested that Boris Johnson’s thumping general election victory last month, which has paved the way for the UK’s exit from the EU on Friday, could give London a boost.

    isam said:


    However Ms Melis suggested that Boris Johnson’s thumping general election victory last month, which has paved the way for the UK’s exit from the EU on Friday, could give London a boost.

    I see the BJ fans have evolved to almost singing in unison. Time to start a choir?
    Everyone likes an open goal
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    NICOLA Sturgeon has refused to support her party’s Scotland spokesperson over a possible wildcat independence referendum.

    The First Minister, who updates MSPs on Wednesday on her next steps on Indyref2, said there was a “need for any process on independence to be legal”.


    https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18189595.nicola-sturgeon-fails-back-mhairi-black-wildcat-indyref2/
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    Anything that literally changes Parliamentary democracy and replaces it with JolyonMaugham, yeah I guess that is worth waiting up for.....
    Oh dear.

    Lots of PBers being taken in by a parody account.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Nothing to do with Brexit! Oh wait.

    London has surrendered its position as the world’s top financial centre to New York due in part to uncertainty over Brexit, according to a survey of senior financial services executives.
    https://twitter.com/DamianSurvation/status/1221793392654528513?s=20
  • Nothing to do with Brexit! Oh wait.

    London has surrendered its position as the world’s top financial centre to New York due in part to uncertainty over Brexit, according to a survey of senior financial services executives.
    https://twitter.com/DamianSurvation/status/1221793392654528513?s=20
    Self selecting?

    You mean like being on YouGov's panel or Survation's panel?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222

    Stocky said:


    If internal polling reveals what you say - i.e. Trump cannot win - I`m expecting him not to run. It is in his nature only to compete when he thinks he will win.

    This is one of the reasons that I`ve laid him at 1.85 and thereabouts, and also had a bit at long odds on Haley to be republican candidate.

    Do you think he had polling that told him he'd win last time?
    Yes I do. I thought he`d win as well and made a few quid on it.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    stodge said:



    There are very few heads of government attending (No Macron, Merkel, the US has sent the Secretary to the Treasury) - there are more heads of State (Austria, Belgium, Germany, Ireland) or their delegates (Norway, Sweden) - so in our case sending the 72 year old wife of the heir to the throne to Poland in a freezing January is not too shabby, especially since the 93 year old head of state is laid up with a cold - many counties have just sent ambassadors:

    http://auschwitz.org/en/state-delegations/

    That's not the point. The UK was in the forefront of defeating the Nazis ans while we didn't liberate Auschwitz-Birkenau directly we were part of the alliance that did.

    It's perfectly possible to send both a royal and a Government representative - the Norwegians have so we could have.

    In my view, we should have - I find the poor representation from BOTH the USA and Russia strange.

    It's a place where the best and worst of humanity co-existed - it must never be forgotten or relegated.
    I would have hoped that, especially after Boris’s rather good statement on Hanukkah, a Government Minister could have bothered to turn up to show how seriously this country takes such matters.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Another famous journalist distinguishes himself:

    https://twitter.com/michaelwhite/status/1221707720065200128

    A pretty stupid thing to say not least because the Auschwitz survivor interviewed on this morning’s Today programme made a point of mentioning the gypsies she saw there saying that they should not be forgotten.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Anyway just to liven things up....

    Suppose Trump tells Boris, either directly or via the spooks, that if he gives the nod to Huawei, the US will withdraw all intelligence co-operation with Britain ..... No more British Eyes in the Five Eyes etc.

    What does Boris do?

    What should Boris do?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,864
    edited January 2020
    Cyclefree said:

    stodge said:



    There are very few heads of government attending (No Macron, Merkel, the US has sent the Secretary to the Treasury) - there are more heads of State (Austria, Belgium, Germany, Ireland) or their delegates (Norway, Sweden) - so in our case sending the 72 year old wife of the heir to the throne to Poland in a freezing January is not too shabby, especially since the 93 year old head of state is laid up with a cold - many counties have just sent ambassadors:

    http://auschwitz.org/en/state-delegations/

    That's not the point. The UK was in the forefront of defeating the Nazis ans while we didn't liberate Auschwitz-Birkenau directly we were part of the alliance that did.

    It's perfectly possible to send both a royal and a Government representative - the Norwegians have so we could have.

    In my view, we should have - I find the poor representation from BOTH the USA and Russia strange.

    It's a place where the best and worst of humanity co-existed - it must never be forgotten or relegated.
    I would have hoped that, especially after Boris’s rather good statement on Hanukkah, a Government Minister could have bothered to turn up to show how seriously this country takes such matters.
    I mean, is he suggesting that because the dead were only 90% Jews that makes it alright? It's just weird.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Anyway just to liven things up....

    Suppose Trump tells Boris, either directly or via the spooks, that if he gives the nod to Huawei, the US will withdraw all intelligence co-operation with Britain ..... No more British Eyes in the Five Eyes etc.

    What does Boris do?

    What should Boris do?

    So the story over the weekend I read was that Boris Johnson made a manifesto commitment to ensure a proper 5G network in this Parliament and he (or rather Dom) do not want to break a manifesto pledge because that's other politicians do.

    By saying no to Huawei breaks that manifesto pledge, so shamefully Boris Johnson is placing politics above national security.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127

    I know someone who had a similar sized bet on him last time.......
    Dish. Who was it?

    The biggest winner on here to date has been @Dromedary who claimed (with some validation) to have won six figures on EURef night. I'd like to know who the PB whales are.
  • NEW THREAD

  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Cyclefree said:

    Another famous journalist distinguishes himself:

    https://twitter.com/michaelwhite/status/1221707720065200128

    A pretty stupid thing to say not least because the Auschwitz survivor interviewed on this morning’s Today programme made a point of mentioning the gypsies she saw there saying that they should not be forgotten.
    He got shredded in the responses. "Ratioed"(?) is, I think, the term.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway just to liven things up....

    Suppose Trump tells Boris, either directly or via the spooks, that if he gives the nod to Huawei, the US will withdraw all intelligence co-operation with Britain ..... No more British Eyes in the Five Eyes etc.

    What does Boris do?

    What should Boris do?

    So the story over the weekend I read was that Boris Johnson made a manifesto commitment to ensure a proper 5G network in this Parliament and he (or rather Dom) do not want to break a manifesto pledge because that's other politicians do.

    By saying no to Huawei breaks that manifesto pledge, so shamefully Boris Johnson is placing politics above national security.
    In that he's placed politics above the national economy, the national reputation, and the national interest in general, I'm not sure why you would be surprised by that.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127


    @CarlottaVance @TheScreamingEagles

    I note your interest in SurveyMonkey.

    Point 1: SurveyMonkey aren't[1] BPC . But this isn't an voting intention poll

    Point 2: Normally they do popup polling - you visit a website, you get a popup to fill out, the weighing is based on the readership of the website. It's an interesting (tho a bit dubious) method. However in this case they have a defined sample frame - "key stakeholders from a wide range of global institutions" but I don't know whether the responses were skewed nor if they were weighted. This is different from a voodoo poll, where the survey frame (the people from which the sample is taken) is unrepresentative (eg a newspaper readership) and has unrepresentative response rates (eg brigading). So it's not automatically bad, but not automatically good either.

    [1]http://www.britishpollingcouncil.org/officers-members/
This discussion has been closed.