Firstly, you arrive in a poorly heated church hall. There are between 10 and 200 of your fellow caucus goers in the precinct. Then you listen to speeches by the candidates representatives for something between five minutes and an hour and a half. Not every candidate will have a representative in every precinct. Some of the smallest rural ones will have no candidates' representatives at all. Some of the big ones will have six or seven.
Secondly (if you can survive the tedium of listening to a 19-year sociology student from Rhode Island explain a second tier candidate's health care plan), the hall divides into groups for each candidate. Only groups which get the 15% threshold count. So, there's a whole bunch of encouraging at this point. If the threshold is 25 people in your precinct and there are 14 Klobuchar voters... well, they'll probably have to find a new home.
Eventually this comes to an end, and precincts report in to their county, which reports into the Democrat HQ in Des Moines.
So, two things really matter (on top of your base support):
(1) How transfer friendly are you? At least 20% of caucus goers will be supporting candidates who are unviable (and it might be as much as 35% or more in some places).
(2) How well organised are you? Do you have volunteers in every church hall and community centre. Do they have well rehearsed talking points tailored to why a Yang voter should vote Sanders?
And, of course, people in St Swithin's Hall in one part of Iowa have no idea what's happening in another. So, you might see Warren voters going for Sanders in Rapid City, but Sanders ones opting for Warren in Sioux Falls.
It's a complicated picture. Biden, for example, is leading in the Iowa polls. But he has fewer volunteers and field offices than Sanders, Buttigieg, Warren or Klobuchar.
And people can regroup to try and avoid a less favoured candidate winning. I have little doubt that if Bloomberg were on the ballot (he's not), then you would see Warren voters going Sanders (or vice-versa) to prevent him winning.
Put it together, and I see this being a very tight contest. I could see any of the top five winning.
That's very informative. What a process.
Could there ever in practice be a "Twelve Angry Men" type scenario where an extremely persuasive Henry Fonda type figure slowly but surely turns the Hall the way of his or her preferred candidate?
The thing about Idris Elba, he is such a good actor that he could get the job on merit and would make a great Bond. The woke nonsense is about a deliberate effort to cast non white people in roles that are written for white men. But hell would hath no fury if the situation was reversed in any way.
It's true that the Bond in the Fleming books makes no sense as a black man. The character is - and has to be - white.
But the film franchise is nothing to do with the books anymore. He now just has to be male and British. And even that is just my opinion. You could argue for dropping those 2 requirements as well. I personally would be uneasy with, say, a Mexican Bond (with all that that entails) but I wouldn't be offended if they were to go down that route.
I prefered Brosnan as Bond over Craig but even I think that an Idris Elba Bond could be more authentic to the books than an invisible car.
Oh dear it appears the tw@tterati left are losing their shit because the bloke who has the #1 listened to podcast in the world said he will probably vote Bernie Sanders and Sanders campaign are going to use that in an advert...and their outrage is because said podcast occasionally (probably about 10 really right wing people) in nearly 1500 episodes.
This is the piece where Rogan was talking about all the candidates, with NYT political commentator Bari Weiss. Rogan was answering a straight question from Weiss about who he would be voting for. https://youtube.com/watch?v=F0PT_vQXtZM
Oh dear it appears the tw@tterati left are losing their shit because the bloke who has the #1 listened to podcast in the world said he will probably vote Bernie Sanders and Sanders campaign are going to use that in an advert...and their outrage is because said podcast occasionally (probably about 10 really right wing people) in nearly 1500 episodes.
I mean he did say going into a cinema full of black people was "like walking into the Planet of the Apes". That isn't exactly a "maybe" on the racism scale.
What ARE the Remoaners going to do if Brexit turns out..... OK??
This is your semi-daily reminder that Byronic voted "Remain"
As did I, and Byronic obviously plays up for attention quite a lot on here.
But there's a grain of truth in it. Most Remainers have concerns over the impact of Brexit, not just short term but in decades to come. A minority, though, have undoubtedly tipped into willing Brexit to fail. That makes me more than uncomfortable - I genuinely hope my fears are unwarranted and it all goes well.
Where Byronic is wrong is the implication that the extreme position is that widespread amongst Remainers beyond a vocal group.
For most of us, I think, we're sanguine about the situation, but get a bit annoyed about being ordered to change our minds just because Leave and Johnson won elections. We accept Leavers have won the right to do it there way, but why on earth should the rest of us pretend to think it's a good idea, or hide the fact they are worried about the impact, or join in with celebrating an event that we think is more likely to harm our compatriots than help them?
"London’s Metropolitan Police Service has announced that it will deploy live facial recognition to identify citizens across the capital, flying in the face of calls from the British government, regulators and citizens to pause use of the highly invasive and often inaccurate biometric technology.
The Met said that standalone cameras would scan passers-by in specific areas of the city for five to six hours at a time, searching for people suspected of serious and violent crimes such as gun and knife attacks and child sexual exploitation.
The Met police’s decision comes after an independent review it commissioned last year published a damning report about the force’s trial deployments in the British capital, saying the technology was only accurate 19 per cent of the time, and was likely to contravene human rights."
If that were the opening crawl text to a dystopian sci fi flick you'd be thinking Please don't insult my intelligence, like that would ever happen.
I love the 5-6 hour stints (cameras need lunch breaks, obv), the 19% figure in a report they themselves commissioned, and the suggestion that the Government's powers are limited to making "calls" about stuff they disapprove of.
Oh dear it appears the tw@tterati left are losing their shit because the bloke who has the #1 listened to podcast in the world said he will probably vote Bernie Sanders and Sanders campaign are going to use that in an advert...and their outrage is because said podcast occasionally (probably about 10 really right wing people) in nearly 1500 episodes.
What ARE the Remoaners going to do if Brexit turns out..... OK??
This is your semi-daily reminder that Byronic voted "Remain"
As did I, and Byronic obviously plays up for attention quite a lot on here.
But there's a grain of truth in it. Most Remainers have concerns over the impact of Brexit, not just short term but in decades to come. A minority, though, have undoubtedly tipped into willing Brexit to fail. That makes me more than uncomfortable - I genuinely hope my fears are unwarranted and it all goes well.
Where Byronic is wrong is the implication that the extreme position is that widespread amongst Remainers beyond a vocal group.
For most of us, I think, we're sanguine about the situation, but get a bit annoyed about being ordered to change our minds just because Leave and Johnson won elections. We accept Leavers have won the right to do it there way, but why on earth should the rest of us pretend to think it's a good idea, or hide the fact they are worried about the impact, or join in with celebrating an event that we think is more likely to harm our compatriots than help them?
To be fair though I don't think you and other moderate remainers are what is meant by the pejorative of "remoaners".
That is surely reserved for the likes of Mr Meeks here and others like sweary Dunt and more that get quoted here who have long since jumped the shark.
Stokes said: “Stats are just fine, you’re a formidable quant”
That's a reasonable line for the defence to take.
Alternatively, he was subject to the most gross of provocations... The spectator's comments were not broadcast, though it is understood that the spectator involved, who is middle-aged, suggested Stokes looked like the singer, Ed Sheeran....
I hope not. He's being socially conservative on a few areas (ie law and order, but not sexuality) while being economically dry but opening the taps a bit more than they were.
The Tory manifesto was criticised by various "institutes" for not increasing spending enough, while he is being called economically left by others - seems to be a reasonable situation to be in.
Well, there will always be support for looking "tough" on law and order even if there are some underlying questions about why we need to keep ratcheting up Police and security powers every time we have an attack.
It's a case, I feel, of "something must be done - this is something - let's do it" almost as if there has to be a response whether that response is reasonable, appropriate, proportionate or not. I'm opposed to extending the power of the State and security authorities just for the sake of it but it's popular.
The other aspect is one of expectations management - Boris has made a lot of pledges and promises, some of which may well be achievable (getting us out of the EU) while some may be rather more fraught and with big questions over HS2 and LHR3, I'm tempted to question the degree of fiscal responsibility.
Yes, it's a good time to borrow (though that won't last forever) but borrowing means future debt repayment and I question the fiscal responsibility. There's no problem with successful capital investment if it generates economic growth which would not otherwise have happened but there's a difference between that and vanity projects to curry political favour.
Firstly, you arrive in a poorly heated church hall. There are between 10 and 200 of your fellow caucus goers in the precinct. Then you listen to speeches by the candidates representatives for something between five minutes and an hour and a half. Not every candidate will have a representative in every precinct. Some of the smallest rural ones will have no candidates' representatives at all. Some of the big ones will have six or seven.
Secondly (if you can survive the tedium of listening to a 19-year sociology student from Rhode Island explain a second tier candidate's health care plan), the hall divides into groups for each candidate. Only groups which get the 15% threshold count. So, there's a whole bunch of encouraging at this point. If the threshold is 25 people in your precinct and there are 14 Klobuchar voters... well, they'll probably have to find a new home.
Eventually this comes to an end, and precincts report in to their county, which reports into the Democrat HQ in Des Moines.
So, two things really matter (on top of your base support):
(1) How transfer friendly are you? At least 20% of caucus goers will be supporting candidates who are unviable (and it might be as much as 35% or more in some places).
(2) How well organised are you? Do you have volunteers in every church hall and community centre. Do they have well rehearsed talking points tailored to why a Yang voter should vote Sanders?
And, of course, people in St Swithin's Hall in one part of Iowa have no idea what's happening in another. So, you might see Warren voters going for Sanders in Rapid City, but Sanders ones opting for Warren in Sioux Falls.
It's a complicated picture. Biden, for example, is leading in the Iowa polls. But he has fewer volunteers and field offices than Sanders, Buttigieg, Warren or Klobuchar.
And people can regroup to try and avoid a less favoured candidate winning. I have little doubt that if Bloomberg were on the ballot (he's not), then you would see Warren voters going Sanders (or vice-versa) to prevent him winning.
Put it together, and I see this being a very tight contest. I could see any of the top five winning.
That's very informative. What a process.
It's astounding really. Fair play for it intending to be a very indepth process, but I cannot help but feel that even where a representative exists that given the paucity of more than one or two distinct policy issues for each candidate, many of whom won't have been massively well known so most reps are presumably pretty new converts to supporting them, that they might be able to talk a lot of bollocks thats nothing to do with the candidate's real intentions for all they or anyone else knows.
What ARE the Remoaners going to do if Brexit turns out..... OK??
This is your semi-daily reminder that Byronic voted "Remain"
As did I, and Byronic obviously plays up for attention quite a lot on here.
But there's a grain of truth in it. Most Remainers have concerns over the impact of Brexit, not just short term but in decades to come. A minority, though, have undoubtedly tipped into willing Brexit to fail. That makes me more than uncomfortable - I genuinely hope my fears are unwarranted and it all goes well.
Where Byronic is wrong is the implication that the extreme position is that widespread amongst Remainers beyond a vocal group.
For most of us, I think, we're sanguine about the situation, but get a bit annoyed about being ordered to change our minds just because Leave and Johnson won elections. We accept Leavers have won the right to do it there way, but why on earth should the rest of us pretend to think it's a good idea, or hide the fact they are worried about the impact, or join in with celebrating an event that we think is more likely to harm our compatriots than help them?
To be fair though I don't think you and other moderate remainers are what is meant by the pejorative of "remoaners".
That is surely reserved for the likes of Mr Meeks here and others like sweary Dunt and more that get quoted here who have long since jumped the shark.
Not really. I just think Fox was silly to highlight this, and his detractors are silly to use his comments against him.
If Fox wants to highlight the gratuitous use of'inclusiveness in movies for inclusiveness sake there are much better examples. And his detractors are silly to pretend this phenomenon does not exist, or that minorities are offended by it being pointed out.
It can be irritating when diversity is shoe-horned into a drama. For example, sticking with Bond, and being just a little OTT to make the point, if the producers were to go in a Rastafarian direction with the lead character for no reason other than to earn woke credit points, that would forfeit any sympathy from me.
However, the core point for me is that the benefits of promoting diversity, whilst yes they can be overly earnest sometimes, MASSIVELY outweigh the irritation it sometimes causes me. Furthermore, I am wary of those who get their knickers in a twist, Meldrew like, over too much diversity on screen. I think their wiring has gone wrong and I start worrying about other things.
Another example. Let's imagine a society that is short of successful black middle-class role models. Now, given that, which of the following does the more damage? That fictional dramas in their quest for authenticity never ever show black characters as architects? Or that in a quest to promote diversity it seems that every architect in a drama is black?
I raise this hypothetically, I stress. I know that there are in fact very few TV dramas - or indeed movies - that feature architects of any ethnicity. But, you know, doctors, solicitors, accountants. Same point.
If Brexit turns out OK everyone will have supported it all along, with the FT and Economist leading the charge.
Of course, and if it doesn't work, then it will have been because it was the wrong Brexit.
You can't expect people - of any persuasion - to change their opinions in response to actual evidence.
It's far more than that, people on either side tend to have very different metrics of what Brexit being a "success" means. As far as I'm concerned the discussion about GDP for instance is entirely irrelevant; success is the degree to which we still remain attached to the EU project. A Remainiac wittering on about baloney predictions of future GDP growth is not going to ever convince me they are right, not just because the "facts" are nonsense but because it's not the value being considered.
If the standard of living of people in the UK were to fall dramatically below those of our continental neighbours, then I think there would be a lot of grumbling*. I don't think we'd change our mind, but there would be a lot of recriminations among those, including me, who'd argued for Brexit. And some of us would be saying it was because we didn't got for EFTA/EEA, and some would say it was because we didn't do it properly and sever all ties with the EU.
But, that's probably not going to happen. EU membership is, on the list of things that determine our long-term prosperity, not that high.
A much bigger worry is that the policies of the current government, in particular as regards deficit spending, will worsen current imbalances. Simply, the government spending ahead of revenues will tend to increase the balance of payments deficit. (Because the government is dissaving for the country as a whole.)
It is a totemic issue solely because we're still debating it and it hasn't happened yet.
Once its happened and is history that's another matter.
Having reflected on it I think the key will be first how much the UK and EU diverge politically, socially and culturally after we leave - will we drift even further into the American orbit or will the 2020s and beyond see a "new Britishness"?
I've often pointed out many migrants don't see themselves as English, Welsh or Scottish but as British and there is a new British nation developing from the migrant population which sees things very differently to the traditional English, Welsh, Irish and Scottish identities.
The second question is how the EU will respond to the departure of the UK. With the emergence of Salvini, Orban and others, the federalist agenda is on the back foot and it may be we'll see a move back to a more "Europe des patries" notion which existed in the EEC days.
It's also possible (indeed likely) the populist wave will run its course and retreat. Climate change, by definition, requires regional if not global action and breathing bad air in London is the same as breathing bad air in Vienna or Bucharest at the end of the day.
I still think the events of 1989 badly derailed the federalist agenda - had the Berlin Wall never fallen, I suspect the non-Communist states (except Sweden, Switzerland a few of the minnows) would have moved much closer to financial and political unification.
Firstly, you arrive in a poorly heated church hall. There are between 10 and 200 of your fellow caucus goers in the precinct. Then you listen to speeches by the candidates representatives for something between five minutes and an hour and a half. Not every candidate will have a representative in every precinct. Some of the smallest rural ones will have no candidates' representatives at all. Some of the big ones will have six or seven.
Secondly (if you can survive the tedium of listening to a 19-year sociology student from Rhode Island explain a second tier candidate's health care plan), the hall divides into groups for each candidate. Only groups which get the 15% threshold count. So, there's a whole bunch of encouraging at this point. If the threshold is 25 people in your precinct and there are 14 Klobuchar voters... well, they'll probably have to find a new home.
Eventually this comes to an end, and precincts report in to their county, which reports into the Democrat HQ in Des Moines.
So, two things really matter (on top of your base support):
(1) How transfer friendly are you? At least 20% of caucus goers will be supporting candidates who are unviable (and it might be as much as 35% or more in some places).
(2) How well organised are you? Do you have volunteers in every church hall and community centre. Do they have well rehearsed talking points tailored to why a Yang voter should vote Sanders?
And, of course, people in St Swithin's Hall in one part of Iowa have no idea what's happening in another. So, you might see Warren voters going for Sanders in Rapid City, but Sanders ones opting for Warren in Sioux Falls.
It's a complicated picture. Biden, for example, is leading in the Iowa polls. But he has fewer volunteers and field offices than Sanders, Buttigieg, Warren or Klobuchar.
And people can regroup to try and avoid a less favoured candidate winning. I have little doubt that if Bloomberg were on the ballot (he's not), then you would see Warren voters going Sanders (or vice-versa) to prevent him winning.
Put it together, and I see this being a very tight contest. I could see any of the top five winning.
That's very informative. What a process.
...they might be able to talk a lot of bollocks thats nothing to do with the candidate's real intentions for all they or anyone else knows.
Candidates should be entitled to have their own bollocks reported accurately ?
What ARE the Remoaners going to do if Brexit turns out..... OK??
This is your semi-daily reminder that Byronic voted "Remain"
As did I, and Byronic obviously plays up for attention quite a lot on here.
But there's a grain of truth in it. Most Remainers have concerns over the impact of Brexit, not just short term but in decades to come. A minority, though, have undoubtedly tipped into willing Brexit to fail. That makes me more than uncomfortable - I genuinely hope my fears are unwarranted and it all goes well.
Where Byronic is wrong is the implication that the extreme position is that widespread amongst Remainers beyond a vocal group.
For most of us, I think, we're sanguine about the situation, but get a bit annoyed about being ordered to change our minds just because Leave and Johnson won elections. We accept Leavers have won the right to do it there way, but why on earth should the rest of us pretend to think it's a good idea, or hide the fact they are worried about the impact, or join in with celebrating an event that we think is more likely to harm our compatriots than help them?
To be fair though I don't think you and other moderate remainers are what is meant by the pejorative of "remoaners".
That is surely reserved for the likes of Mr Meeks here and others like sweary Dunt and more that get quoted here who have long since jumped the shark.
What ARE the Remoaners going to do if Brexit turns out..... OK??
This is your semi-daily reminder that Byronic voted "Remain"
As did I, and Byronic obviously plays up for attention quite a lot on here.
But there's a grain of truth in it. Most Remainers have concerns over the impact of Brexit, not just short term but in decades to come. A minority, though, have undoubtedly tipped into willing Brexit to fail. That makes me more than uncomfortable - I genuinely hope my fears are unwarranted and it all goes well.
Where Byronic is wrong is the implication that the extreme position is that widespread amongst Remainers beyond a vocal group.
For most of us, I think, we're sanguine about the situation, but get a bit annoyed about being ordered to change our minds just because Leave and Johnson won elections. We accept Leavers have won the right to do it there way, but why on earth should the rest of us pretend to think it's a good idea, or hide the fact they are worried about the impact, or join in with celebrating an event that we think is more likely to harm our compatriots than help them?
To be fair though I don't think you and other moderate remainers are what is meant by the pejorative of "remoaners".
That is surely reserved for the likes of Mr Meeks here and others like sweary Dunt and more that get quoted here who have long since jumped the shark.
It's extremely bad manners to talk about someone behind his back. Now I'm here, perhaps you would care to justify your gratuitous abuse? Or apologise profusely for it?
Mystery of the day: why have the vegans not yet come up with, and gone to town on, the exceedingly obvious point that no animal husbandry = no coronaviruses?
Perhaps chronic vitamin B12 shortage slows the thought processes.
What ARE the Remoaners going to do if Brexit turns out..... OK??
This is your semi-daily reminder that Byronic voted "Remain"
As did I, and Byronic obviously plays up for attention quite a lot on here.
But there's a grain of truth in it. Most Remainers have concerns over the impact of Brexit, not just short term but in decades to come. A minority, though, have undoubtedly tipped into willing Brexit to fail. That makes me more than uncomfortable - I genuinely hope my fears are unwarranted and it all goes well.
Where Byronic is wrong is the implication that the extreme position is that widespread amongst Remainers beyond a vocal group.
For most of us, I think, we're sanguine about the situation, but get a bit annoyed about being ordered to change our minds just because Leave and Johnson won elections. We accept Leavers have won the right to do it there way, but why on earth should the rest of us pretend to think it's a good idea, or hide the fact they are worried about the impact, or join in with celebrating an event that we think is more likely to harm our compatriots than help them?
To be fair though I don't think you and other moderate remainers are what is meant by the pejorative of "remoaners".
That is surely reserved for the likes of Mr Meeks here and others like sweary Dunt and more that get quoted here who have long since jumped the shark.
"London’s Metropolitan Police Service has announced that it will deploy live facial recognition to identify citizens across the capital, flying in the face of calls from the British government, regulators and citizens to pause use of the highly invasive and often inaccurate biometric technology.
The Met said that standalone cameras would scan passers-by in specific areas of the city for five to six hours at a time, searching for people suspected of serious and violent crimes such as gun and knife attacks and child sexual exploitation.
The Met police’s decision comes after an independent review it commissioned last year published a damning report about the force’s trial deployments in the British capital, saying the technology was only accurate 19 per cent of the time, and was likely to contravene human rights."
If that were the opening crawl text to a dystopian sci fi flick you'd be thinking Please don't insult my intelligence, like that would ever happen.
I love the 5-6 hour stints (cameras need lunch breaks, obv), the 19% figure in a report they themselves commissioned, and the suggestion that the Government's powers are limited to making "calls" about stuff they disapprove of.
The assistant met commissioner (or whatever) in charge of it on R4 just now saying he was 'excited' at the prospect was perhaps ill advised to let us know that.
I prefered Brosnan as Bond over Craig but even I think that an Idris Elba Bond could be more authentic to the books than an invisible car.
Exactly. The books (and I have the lot) have a deeply 1950s reactionary empire vibe. Regarding values, they are not so much unwoke as in a coma. They are racist, sexist, just about every 'ist' you can mention. Also very anti Health & Safety culture.
A case of ooo they are awful but I like them. Or I did when I was 15 anyway. And again at 28. Not sure what I'd make of them now. I would hope that I would fail to get through one.
What ARE the Remoaners going to do if Brexit turns out..... OK??
This is your semi-daily reminder that Byronic voted "Remain"
As did I, and Byronic obviously plays up for attention quite a lot on here.
But there's a grain of truth in it. Most Remainers have concerns over the impact of Brexit, not just short term but in decades to come. A minority, though, have undoubtedly tipped into willing Brexit to fail. That makes me more than uncomfortable - I genuinely hope my fears are unwarranted and it all goes well.
Where Byronic is wrong is the implication that the extreme position is that widespread amongst Remainers beyond a vocal group.
For most of us, I think, we're sanguine about the situation, but get a bit annoyed about being ordered to change our minds just because Leave and Johnson won elections. We accept Leavers have won the right to do it there way, but why on earth should the rest of us pretend to think it's a good idea, or hide the fact they are worried about the impact, or join in with celebrating an event that we think is more likely to harm our compatriots than help them?
To be fair though I don't think you and other moderate remainers are what is meant by the pejorative of "remoaners".
That is surely reserved for the likes of Mr Meeks here and others like sweary Dunt and more that get quoted here who have long since jumped the shark.
It's extremely bad manners to talk about someone behind his back. Now I'm here, perhaps you would care to justify your gratuitous abuse? Or apologise profusely for it?
I think you should regard being abused by someone with the simplistic political and world view of Philip Thompson as a badge of honour.
I prefered Brosnan as Bond over Craig but even I think that an Idris Elba Bond could be more authentic to the books than an invisible car.
Exactly. The books (and I have the lot) have a deeply 1950s reactionary empire vibe. Regarding values, they are not so much unwoke as in a coma. They are racist, sexist, just about every 'ist' you can mention. Also very anti Health & Safety culture.
A case of ooo they are awful but I like them. Or I did when I was 15 anyway. And again at 28. Not sure what I'd make of them now. I would hope that I would fail to get through one.
They reflect the values typical of the time. They are also (still) extremely good books.
Those are not contradictory statements.
How confident are we that our values today will stand up to scrutiny by the generation alive and reviewing them in 100 years time?
in answer to Byronic's question "What ARE the Remoaners going to do if Brexit turns out..... OK??", my answer is (assuming I deserve that playground epithet of the intellectually challenged Leave fanatic), I will be surprised and delighted. I will still think, what the fuck was the point in that you bunch of retards, but there we are.
It's astounding really. Fair play for it intending to be a very indepth process, but I cannot help but feel that even where a representative exists that given the paucity of more than one or two distinct policy issues for each candidate, many of whom won't have been massively well known so most reps are presumably pretty new converts to supporting them, that they might be able to talk a lot of bollocks thats nothing to do with the candidate's real intentions for all they or anyone else knows.
It has an Ancient Rome feel about it to me. They used to hold events like that. And of course the US Senate has similarities with the Roman one. In fact, in searching for a good historical analogy for Trump - and his relationship with Congress and his people - you could do worse than Caligula. Both creatures of enormous vanity and caprice, essentially taking the piss for their own twisted entertainment.
I prefered Brosnan as Bond over Craig but even I think that an Idris Elba Bond could be more authentic to the books than an invisible car.
Exactly. The books (and I have the lot) have a deeply 1950s reactionary empire vibe. Regarding values, they are not so much unwoke as in a coma. They are racist, sexist, just about every 'ist' you can mention. Also very anti Health & Safety culture.
A case of ooo they are awful but I like them. Or I did when I was 15 anyway. And again at 28. Not sure what I'd make of them now. I would hope that I would fail to get through one.
Not just the books either. Witness Sean Connery dismissing his “masseuse” with a slap on the arse and “sorry, err.. man talk.” when Felix Lighter walks over at the start of Goldfinger after the credits. They also all wore trilbys and casual ties back then too.
Different times.
Then again, Honor Blackman is a pretty feminist character (for the time) later in the film, even those she’s called um.. pussy galore.
To be fair though I don't think you and other moderate remainers are what is meant by the pejorative of "remoaners".
That is surely reserved for the likes of Mr Meeks here and others like sweary Dunt and more that get quoted here who have long since jumped the shark.
It's extremely bad manners to talk about someone behind his back. Now I'm here, perhaps you would care to justify your gratuitous abuse? Or apologise profusely for it?
It wasn't behind your back which is why you saw it. If I'd said it in private messages that would be behind your back. As for what I said, I point to your litany of posts here and opening posts you have posted. You haven't a single good word to say about Brexit.
I would consider a "remoaner" to be a very firm remainer who is deeply unhappy with what is happening with Brexit and lets people know they're not happy. Up to you to determine if you consider that to be gratuitous abuse or if I made a mistake linking you with that. If you don't think that applies to you then I'd apologise, politely not profusely, but I must have misread your posts if that does not apply to you.
To be fair though I don't think you and other moderate remainers are what is meant by the pejorative of "remoaners".
That is surely reserved for the likes of Mr Meeks here and others like sweary Dunt and more that get quoted here who have long since jumped the shark.
It's extremely bad manners to talk about someone behind his back. Now I'm here, perhaps you would care to justify your gratuitous abuse? Or apologise profusely for it?
It wasn't behind your back which is why you saw it. If I'd said it in private messages that would be behind your back. As for what I said, I point to your litany of posts here and opening posts you have posted. You haven't a single good word to say about Brexit.
I would consider a "remoaner" to be a very firm remainer who is deeply unhappy with what is happening with Brexit and lets people know they're not happy. Up to you to determine if you consider that to be gratuitous abuse or if I made a mistake linking you with that. If you don't think that applies to you then I'd apologise, politely not profusely, but I must have misread your posts if that does not apply to you.
I had not been on the site all day. Yet you felt the need to abuse me without any reason and in all likelihood, so far as you knew, without any opportunity to defend myself. You should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself.
To be fair though I don't think you and other moderate remainers are what is meant by the pejorative of "remoaners".
That is surely reserved for the likes of Mr Meeks here and others like sweary Dunt and more that get quoted here who have long since jumped the shark.
It's extremely bad manners to talk about someone behind his back. Now I'm here, perhaps you would care to justify your gratuitous abuse? Or apologise profusely for it?
It wasn't behind your back which is why you saw it. If I'd said it in private messages that would be behind your back. As for what I said, I point to your litany of posts here and opening posts you have posted. You haven't a single good word to say about Brexit.
I would consider a "remoaner" to be a very firm remainer who is deeply unhappy with what is happening with Brexit and lets people know they're not happy. Up to you to determine if you consider that to be gratuitous abuse or if I made a mistake linking you with that. If you don't think that applies to you then I'd apologise, politely not profusely, but I must have misread your posts if that does not apply to you.
I had not been on the site all day. Yet you felt the need to abuse me without any reason and in all likelihood, so far as you knew, without any opportunity to defend myself. You should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself.
Instead of doubling down, apologise right now.
the only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about.
Not just the books either. Witness Sean Connery dismissing his “masseuse” with a slap on the arse and “sorry, err.. man talk.” when Felix Lighter walks over at the start of Goldfinger after the credits. They also all wore trilbys and casual ties back then too.
Different times.
Then again, Honor Blackman is a pretty feminist character (for the time) later in the film, even those she’s called um.. pussy galore.
That ass slapping scene in Goldfinger is absolutely egregious. It's the pits. One of the most sexist scenes in mainstream movie history.
To be fair though I don't think you and other moderate remainers are what is meant by the pejorative of "remoaners".
That is surely reserved for the likes of Mr Meeks here and others like sweary Dunt and more that get quoted here who have long since jumped the shark.
It's extremely bad manners to talk about someone behind his back. Now I'm here, perhaps you would care to justify your gratuitous abuse? Or apologise profusely for it?
It wasn't behind your back which is why you saw it. If I'd said it in private messages that would be behind your back. As for what I said, I point to your litany of posts here and opening posts you have posted. You haven't a single good word to say about Brexit.
I would consider a "remoaner" to be a very firm remainer who is deeply unhappy with what is happening with Brexit and lets people know they're not happy. Up to you to determine if you consider that to be gratuitous abuse or if I made a mistake linking you with that. If you don't think that applies to you then I'd apologise, politely not profusely, but I must have misread your posts if that does not apply to you.
I had not been on the site all day. Yet you felt the need to abuse me without any reason and in all likelihood, so far as you knew, without any opportunity to defend myself. You should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself.
Instead of doubling down, apologise right now.
It was meant as an example it wasn't meant as an insult, nor did I expect you to have to defend yourself. Do you consider yourself to be a firm remainer who is deeply unhappy with Brexit? Are you wanting to let people here know you're not happy with Brexit?
As for an apology, I'm sorry if I offended you, that was not the intention.
To be fair though I don't think you and other moderate remainers are what is meant by the pejorative of "remoaners".
That is surely reserved for the likes of Mr Meeks here and others like sweary Dunt and more that get quoted here who have long since jumped the shark.
It's extremely bad manners to talk about someone behind his back. Now I'm here, perhaps you would care to justify your gratuitous abuse? Or apologise profusely for it?
It wasn't behind your back which is why you saw it. If I'd said it in private messages that would be behind your back. As for what I said, I point to your litany of posts here and opening posts you have posted. You haven't a single good word to say about Brexit.
I would consider a "remoaner" to be a very firm remainer who is deeply unhappy with what is happening with Brexit and lets people know they're not happy. Up to you to determine if you consider that to be gratuitous abuse or if I made a mistake linking you with that. If you don't think that applies to you then I'd apologise, politely not profusely, but I must have misread your posts if that does not apply to you.
I had not been on the site all day. Yet you felt the need to abuse me without any reason and in all likelihood, so far as you knew, without any opportunity to defend myself. You should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself.
Instead of doubling down, apologise right now.
It was meant as an example it wasn't meant as an insult, nor did I expect you to have to defend yourself. Do you consider yourself to be a firm remainer who is deeply unhappy with Brexit? Are you wanting to let people here know you're not happy with Brexit?
As for an apology, I'm sorry if I offended you, that was not the intention.
That is not an apology. The word "Remoaner" is an insult in your lexicon. You applied it to me in my absence. I suggest you take a long hard look in the mirror. You lack the most basic manners.
Not just the books either. Witness Sean Connery dismissing his “masseuse” with a slap on the arse and “sorry, err.. man talk.” when Felix Lighter walks over at the start of Goldfinger after the credits. They also all wore trilbys and casual ties back then too.
Different times.
Then again, Honor Blackman is a pretty feminist character (for the time) later in the film, even those she’s called um.. pussy galore.
That ass slapping scene in Goldfinger is absolutely egregious. It's the pits. One of the most sexist scenes in mainstream movie history.
Not just the books either. Witness Sean Connery dismissing his “masseuse” with a slap on the arse and “sorry, err.. man talk.” when Felix Lighter walks over at the start of Goldfinger after the credits. They also all wore trilbys and casual ties back then too.
Different times.
Then again, Honor Blackman is a pretty feminist character (for the time) later in the film, even those she’s called um.. pussy galore.
That ass slapping scene in Goldfinger is absolutely egregious. It's the pits. One of the most sexist scenes in mainstream movie history.
To be fair though I don't think you and other moderate remainers are what is meant by the pejorative of "remoaners".
That is surely reserved for the likes of Mr Meeks here and others like sweary Dunt and more that get quoted here who have long since jumped the shark.
It's extremely bad manners to talk about someone behind his back. Now I'm here, perhaps you would care to justify your gratuitous abuse? Or apologise profusely for it?
It wasn't behind your back which is why you saw it. If I'd said it in private messages that would be behind your back. As for what I said, I point to your litany of posts here and opening posts you have posted. You haven't a single good word to say about Brexit.
I would consider a "remoaner" to be a very firm remainer who is deeply unhappy with what is happening with Brexit and lets people know they're not happy. Up to you to determine if you consider that to be gratuitous abuse or if I made a mistake linking you with that. If you don't think that applies to you then I'd apologise, politely not profusely, but I must have misread your posts if that does not apply to you.
I had not been on the site all day. Yet you felt the need to abuse me without any reason and in all likelihood, so far as you knew, without any opportunity to defend myself. You should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself.
Instead of doubling down, apologise right now.
It was meant as an example it wasn't meant as an insult, nor did I expect you to have to defend yourself. Do you consider yourself to be a firm remainer who is deeply unhappy with Brexit? Are you wanting to let people here know you're not happy with Brexit?
As for an apology, I'm sorry if I offended you, that was not the intention.
That is not an apology. The word "Remoaner" is an insult in your lexicon. You applied it to me in my absence. I suggest you take a long hard look in the mirror. You lack the most basic manners.
Its not in my lexicon. I didn't use the word, I replied when someone else did.
I'm sorry that I did that in your absence. I didn't think about you being absent - on a site when you can't see who is or is not online your absence didn't cross my mind. You're a regular poster here, its not like this is a bar and we can see who is or is not present and that was not the intention so I am sorry that I upset you.
To be fair though I don't think you and other moderate remainers are what is meant by the pejorative of "remoaners".
That is surely reserved for the likes of Mr Meeks here and others like sweary Dunt and more that get quoted here who have long since jumped the shark.
It's extremely bad manners to talk about someone behind his back. Now I'm here, perhaps you would care to justify your gratuitous abuse? Or apologise profusely for it?
It wasn't behind your back which is why you saw it. If I'd said it in private messages that would be behind your back. As for what I said, I point to your litany of posts here and opening posts you have posted. You haven't a single good word to say about Brexit.
I would consider a "remoaner" to be a very firm remainer who is deeply unhappy with what is happening with Brexit and lets people know they're not happy. Up to you to determine if you consider that to be gratuitous abuse or if I made a mistake linking you with that. If you don't think that applies to you then I'd apologise, politely not profusely, but I must have misread your posts if that does not apply to you.
I had not been on the site all day. Yet you felt the need to abuse me without any reason and in all likelihood, so far as you knew, without any opportunity to defend myself. You should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself.
Instead of doubling down, apologise right now.
It was meant as an example it wasn't meant as an insult, nor did I expect you to have to defend yourself. Do you consider yourself to be a firm remainer who is deeply unhappy with Brexit? Are you wanting to let people here know you're not happy with Brexit?
As for an apology, I'm sorry if I offended you, that was not the intention.
That is not an apology. The word "Remoaner" is an insult in your lexicon. You applied it to me in my absence. I suggest you take a long hard look in the mirror. You lack the most basic manners.
Its not in my lexicon. I didn't use the word, I replied when someone else did.
I'm sorry that I did that in your absence. I didn't think about you being absent - on a site when you can't see who is or is not online your absence didn't cross my mind. You're a regular poster here, its not like this is a bar and we can see who is or is not present and that was not the intention so I am sorry that I upset you.
Guys, this is pretty unedifying for a Friday night.
Maybe it’d be better to just rise above it and change the subject.
I have been and still am under the weather with a bug but have been popping in on the odd occasion and to be honest it is time for everyone to move on and accept we are out next week and get behind the country to make it a success
On the point of substance, @Philip_Thompson is also wrong about my views. I have long believed that Britain needed to leave the EU because the short term alternatives were worse for Britain. The manner in which it is being done is needlessly damaging and it has already been profoundly harmful for the country's democracy.
The country is in a spiral of long term decline now, but it's not as simple as saying that reversing Brexit now is the cure. The country has worse to get through first.
Wrong Daily and Burgon - that'll scare the Tories! (actually, I cannot think of a worse combination from the Labour Party - and country's point of view!
Guys, this is pretty unedifying for a Friday night.
Maybe it’d be better to just rise above it and change the subject.
I have been and still am under the weather with a bug but have been popping in on the odd occasion and to be honest it is time for everyone to move on and accept we are out next week and get behind the country to make it a success
"It" cannot be a success. It is a divisive disaster. It can be mitigated though by people who own and run businesses to try and carry on in spite of a bunch of idiots thinking "it" is a good idea. That is what we have done and will continue to do. I will not be putting on my Union Jack boxers and thinking " I am doing this for good old blighty" and neither will anyone else.
Guys, this is pretty unedifying for a Friday night.
Maybe it’d be better to just rise above it and change the subject.
I have been and still am under the weather with a bug but have been popping in on the odd occasion and to be honest it is time for everyone to move on and accept we are out next week and get behind the country to make it a success
I wasn’t making a point about Brexit.
I was referring to two regular posters on here I both respect who I thought were acting beneath themselves.
On the point of substance, @Philip_Thompson is also wrong about my views. I have long believed that Britain needed to leave the EU because the short term alternatives were worse for Britain. The manner in which it is being done is needlessly damaging and it has already been profoundly harmful for the country's democracy.
The country is in a spiral of long term decline now, but it's not as simple as saying that reversing Brexit now is the cure. The country has worse to get through first.
To be honest Alastair you have been consistent in your view but there are many thousands of us who see this as a great opportunity and are far from pessimistic about our future.
Indeed the IMF are far from positive about the EU and expect our growth to be better
My wife, works for one of the UK regulates, in that role she alongside equivalents form all EU nations attends meetings with the EU agency for the same industry.
She has just got back home form the last one before BREXIT, where for the first time was the subject of not just hostility but abuse, and ostracizing, and what came across as illogical blaming for 'everything'
The personal abuse seems especially uncalled for as she is a New Zealand national that was not able to vote in the referendum.
But its also interesting that this is the first and only time this has happen, I can only conclude that this is the first time that its sunk in that we will leave, and they are feeling rejected, but open to other interpretations if anybody whats to suggest them.
She has also been, formally or should that be ceremonially dis-invited to the next meeting, I say ceremonially as she will be attending long term as her industry is covered by one of the 'technical agreements' already agreed to
Maybe I'm just being defensive for her, but i'm relay not impressed by there actions.
On the point of substance, @Philip_Thompson is also wrong about my views. I have long believed that Britain needed to leave the EU because the short term alternatives were worse for Britain. The manner in which it is being done is needlessly damaging and it has already been profoundly harmful for the country's democracy.
The country is in a spiral of long term decline now, but it's not as simple as saying that reversing Brexit now is the cure. The country has worse to get through first.
To be honest Alastair you have been consistent in your view but there are many thousands of us who see this as a great opportunity and are far from pessimistic about our future.
Indeed the IMF are far from positive about the EU and expect our growth to be better
" a great opportunity" ha! Hilarious. There is a point at which optimism just becomes crass stupidity.
I prefered Brosnan as Bond over Craig but even I think that an Idris Elba Bond could be more authentic to the books than an invisible car.
Exactly. The books (and I have the lot) have a deeply 1950s reactionary empire vibe. Regarding values, they are not so much unwoke as in a coma. They are racist, sexist, just about every 'ist' you can mention. Also very anti Health & Safety culture.
A case of ooo they are awful but I like them. Or I did when I was 15 anyway. And again at 28. Not sure what I'd make of them now. I would hope that I would fail to get through one.
They reflect the values typical of the time. They are also (still) extremely good books.
Those are not contradictory statements.
How confident are we that our values today will stand up to scrutiny by the generation alive and reviewing them in 100 years time?
Goldfinger in particular is a virulent anti-Lesbian tract which could have been sponsored by the Empire League for the Suppression of Unnatural Vice. A black, Lesbian film Bond would be a pleasing poke in the eye to Ian Fleming.
Guys, this is pretty unedifying for a Friday night.
Maybe it’d be better to just rise above it and change the subject.
I have been and still am under the weather with a bug but have been popping in on the odd occasion and to be honest it is time for everyone to move on and accept we are out next week and get behind the country to make it a success
I wasn’t making a point about Brexit.
I was referring to two regular posters on here I both respect who I thought were acting beneath themselves.
Sorry to hear you’re unwell.
Thank you and it is rather unpleasant but the doctor has prescribed antibiotics for the next 7 days
I have been and still am under the weather with a bug but have been popping in on the odd occasion and to be honest it is time for everyone to move on and accept we are out next week and get behind the country to make it a success
The problem is that when Conservatives say "Get behind the country", they really mean "Get behind the hard right-wing Tory project" - which will destroy th environment, social relations and the welfare state.
So no thank you very much. Th shambolic prime minister who currently occupies No 10 does not represent me.
I prefered Brosnan as Bond over Craig but even I think that an Idris Elba Bond could be more authentic to the books than an invisible car.
Exactly. The books (and I have the lot) have a deeply 1950s reactionary empire vibe. Regarding values, they are not so much unwoke as in a coma. They are racist, sexist, just about every 'ist' you can mention. Also very anti Health & Safety culture.
A case of ooo they are awful but I like them. Or I did when I was 15 anyway. And again at 28. Not sure what I'd make of them now. I would hope that I would fail to get through one.
They reflect the values typical of the time. They are also (still) extremely good books.
Those are not contradictory statements.
How confident are we that our values today will stand up to scrutiny by the generation alive and reviewing them in 100 years time?
Goldfinger in particular is a virulent anti-Lesbian tract which could have been sponsored by the Empire League for the Suppression of Unnatural Vice. A black, Lesbian film Bond would be a pleasing poke in the eye to Ian Fleming.
Guys, this is pretty unedifying for a Friday night.
Maybe it’d be better to just rise above it and change the subject.
I have been and still am under the weather with a bug but have been popping in on the odd occasion and to be honest it is time for everyone to move on and accept we are out next week and get behind the country to make it a success
"It" cannot be a success. It is a divisive disaster. It can be mitigated though by people who own and run businesses to try and carry on in spite of a bunch of idiots thinking "it" is a good idea. That is what we have done and will continue to do. I will not be putting on my Union Jack boxers and thinking " I am doing this for good old blighty" and neither will anyone else.
I know you hate brexit and as a remain voter I can understand that but calling people who disagree with you as idiots contributes nil to the discussion.
I cannot imagine why anyone would wear Union Jack boxers but many millions will demonstrate pride in the Country and yes, the Union Jack
My wife, works for one of the UK regulates, in that role she alongside equivalents form all EU nations attends meetings with the EU agency for the same industry.
She has just got back home form the last one before BREXIT, where for the first time was the subject of not just hostility but abuse, and ostracizing, and what came across as illogical blaming for 'everything'
The personal abuse seems especially uncalled for as she is a New Zealand national that was not able to vote in the referendum.
But its also interesting that this is the first and only time this has happen, I can only conclude that this is the first time that its sunk in that we will leave, and they are feeling rejected, but open to other interpretations if anybody whats to suggest them.
She has also been, formally or should that be ceremonially dis-invited to the next meeting, I say ceremonially as she will be attending long term as her industry is covered by one of the 'technical agreements' already agreed to
Maybe I'm just being defensive for her, but i'm relay not impressed by there actions.
That’s very distressing to hear, and quite unnecessary.
If she was subjected to personal abuse she should not stand for it and make a formal complaint.
Mystery of the day: why have the vegans not yet come up with, and gone to town on, the exceedingly obvious point that no animal husbandry = no coronaviruses?
Perhaps chronic vitamin B12 shortage slows the thought processes.
Burger King's "Rebel Whopper" is heartily recommended!
I prefered Brosnan as Bond over Craig but even I think that an Idris Elba Bond could be more authentic to the books than an invisible car.
Exactly. The books (and I have the lot) have a deeply 1950s reactionary empire vibe. Regarding values, they are not so much unwoke as in a coma. They are racist, sexist, just about every 'ist' you can mention. Also very anti Health & Safety culture.
A case of ooo they are awful but I like them. Or I did when I was 15 anyway. And again at 28. Not sure what I'd make of them now. I would hope that I would fail to get through one.
They reflect the values typical of the time. They are also (still) extremely good books.
Those are not contradictory statements.
How confident are we that our values today will stand up to scrutiny by the generation alive and reviewing them in 100 years time?
Goldfinger in particular is a virulent anti-Lesbian tract which could have been sponsored by the Empire League for the Suppression of Unnatural Vice. A black, Lesbian film Bond would be a pleasing poke in the eye to Ian Fleming.
Titania? Is that you??
“Bond came to the conclusion that Tilly Masterton was one of those girls whose hormones had got mixed up. He knew the type well and thought they and their male counterparts were a direct consequence of giving votes to women and 'sex equality.' As a result of fifty years of emancipation, feminine qualities were dying out or being transferred to the males. Pansies of both sexes were everywhere, not yet completely homosexual, but confused, not knowing what they were. The result was a herd of unhappy sexual misfits--barren and full of frustrations, the women wanting to dominate and the men to be nannied. He was sorry for them, but he had no time for them.”
I did not make that up. Actually, it is worse than I remembered it as being.
Mind you I re-read Thunderball the other day and it was excellent.
I prefered Brosnan as Bond over Craig but even I think that an Idris Elba Bond could be more authentic to the books than an invisible car.
Exactly. The books (and I have the lot) have a deeply 1950s reactionary empire vibe. Regarding values, they are not so much unwoke as in a coma. They are racist, sexist, just about every 'ist' you can mention. Also very anti Health & Safety culture.
A case of ooo they are awful but I like them. Or I did when I was 15 anyway. And again at 28. Not sure what I'd make of them now. I would hope that I would fail to get through one.
They reflect the values typical of the time. They are also (still) extremely good books.
Those are not contradictory statements.
How confident are we that our values today will stand up to scrutiny by the generation alive and reviewing them in 100 years time?
Goldfinger in particular is a virulent anti-Lesbian tract which could have been sponsored by the Empire League for the Suppression of Unnatural Vice. A black, Lesbian film Bond would be a pleasing poke in the eye to Ian Fleming.
Yeah, but it's a cracking film. Definitely one of the three best Bond movies, alongside Casino Royale and From Russia With Love.
Visited the Canary Wharf Winter Lights exhibits last night. Definitely worth visiting if you're in the area before it closes on Sunday evening.
Thanks, might check I out at the weekend.
I have a feeling it will be very crowded on Saturday and Sunday since it will be the final opportunity for people to see it. Official hours are 4pm to 10pm. Apparently it's been taking place every year since 2015 although I didn't know about it until a few days ago.
Guys, this is pretty unedifying for a Friday night.
Maybe it’d be better to just rise above it and change the subject.
I have been and still am under the weather with a bug but have been popping in on the odd occasion and to be honest it is time for everyone to move on and accept we are out next week and get behind the country to make it a success
"It" cannot be a success. It is a divisive disaster. It can be mitigated though by people who own and run businesses to try and carry on in spite of a bunch of idiots thinking "it" is a good idea. That is what we have done and will continue to do. I will not be putting on my Union Jack boxers and thinking " I am doing this for good old blighty" and neither will anyone else.
I know you hate brexit and as a remain voter I can understand that but calling people who disagree with you as idiots contributes nil to the discussion.
I cannot imagine why anyone would wear Union Jack boxers but many millions will demonstrate pride in the Country and yes, the Union Jack
Union Jack boxers? Pah, Union Jack thongs are where it's at!
Guys, this is pretty unedifying for a Friday night.
Maybe it’d be better to just rise above it and change the subject.
I have been and still am under the weather with a bug but have been popping in on the odd occasion and to be honest it is time for everyone to move on and accept we are out next week and get behind the country to make it a success
I wasn’t making a point about Brexit.
I was referring to two regular posters on here I both respect who I thought were acting beneath themselves.
Sorry to hear you’re unwell.
Thank you and it is rather unpleasant but the doctor has prescribed antibiotics for the next 7 days
I have been and still am under the weather with a bug but have been popping in on the odd occasion and to be honest it is time for everyone to move on and accept we are out next week and get behind the country to make it a success
The problem is that when Conservatives say "Get behind the country", they really mean "Get behind the hard right-wing Tory project" - which will destroy th environment, social relations and the welfare state.
So no thank you very much. Th shambolic prime minister who currently occupies No 10 does not represent me.
I do not accept for one minute this is a hard right government and Boris is a liberal conservative and will carry out policies to benefit the environment and social relations.
Only this week he has introduced 'Jacks' law for bereaved parents of children under 18 and will host the international climate change conference in Glasgow in the autumn.
The left are going to have to find a new way of attacking this government as hard right does not wash
Guys, this is pretty unedifying for a Friday night.
Maybe it’d be better to just rise above it and change the subject.
I have been and still am under the weather with a bug but have been popping in on the odd occasion and to be honest it is time for everyone to move on and accept we are out next week and get behind the country to make it a success
I wasn’t making a point about Brexit.
I was referring to two regular posters on here I both respect who I thought were acting beneath themselves.
Sorry to hear you’re unwell.
Thank you and it is rather unpleasant but the doctor has prescribed antibiotics for the next 7 days
And I agree with your second paragraph completely
Do not forget to take probiotics after the antibiotics.
To be fair though I don't think you and other moderate remainers are what is meant by the pejorative of "remoaners".
That is surely reserved for the likes of Mr Meeks here and others like sweary Dunt and more that get quoted here who have long since jumped the shark.
It's extremely bad manners to talk about someone behind his back. Now I'm here, perhaps you would care to justify your gratuitous abuse? Or apologise profusely for it?
It wasn't behind your back which is why you saw it. If I'd said it in private messages that would be behind your back. As for what I said, I point to your litany of posts here and opening posts you have posted. You haven't a single good word to say about Brexit.
I would consider a "remoaner" to be a very firm remainer who is deeply unhappy with what is happening with Brexit and lets people know they're not happy. Up to you to determine if you consider that to be gratuitous abuse or if I made a mistake linking you with that. If you don't think that applies to you then I'd apologise, politely not profusely, but I must have misread your posts if that does not apply to you.
I had not been on the site all day. Yet you felt the need to abuse me without any reason and in all likelihood, so far as you knew, without any opportunity to defend myself. You should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself.
Instead of doubling down, apologise right now.
It was meant as an example it wasn't meant as an insult, nor did I expect you to have to defend yourself. Do you consider yourself to be a firm remainer who is deeply unhappy with Brexit? Are you wanting to let people here know you're not happy with Brexit?
As for an apology, I'm sorry if I offended you, that was not the intention.
That is not an apology. The word "Remoaner" is an insult in your lexicon. You applied it to me in my absence. I suggest you take a long hard look in the mirror. You lack the most basic manners.
Its not in my lexicon. I didn't use the word, I replied when someone else did.
I'm sorry that I did that in your absence. I didn't think about you being absent - on a site when you can't see who is or is not online your absence didn't cross my mind. You're a regular poster here, its not like this is a bar and we can see who is or is not present and that was not the intention so I am sorry that I upset you.
Guys, this is pretty unedifying for a Friday night.
Maybe it’d be better to just rise above it and change the subject.
I have been and still am under the weather with a bug but have been popping in on the odd occasion and to be honest it is time for everyone to move on and accept we are out next week and get behind the country to make it a success
I wasn’t making a point about Brexit.
I was referring to two regular posters on here I both respect who I thought were acting beneath themselves.
Sorry to hear you’re unwell.
Thank you and it is rather unpleasant but the doctor has prescribed antibiotics for the next 7 days
And I agree with your second paragraph completely
Get well soon!
Thanks Sunil. Struggling a bit at present but there is always tomorrow
My wife, works for one of the UK regulates, in that role she alongside equivalents form all EU nations attends meetings with the EU agency for the same industry.
She has just got back home form the last one before BREXIT, where for the first time was the subject of not just hostility but abuse, and ostracizing, and what came across as illogical blaming for 'everything'
The personal abuse seems especially uncalled for as she is a New Zealand national that was not able to vote in the referendum.
But its also interesting that this is the first and only time this has happen, I can only conclude that this is the first time that its sunk in that we will leave, and they are feeling rejected, but open to other interpretations if anybody whats to suggest them.
She has also been, formally or should that be ceremonially dis-invited to the next meeting, I say ceremonially as she will be attending long term as her industry is covered by one of the 'technical agreements' already agreed to
Maybe I'm just being defensive for her, but i'm relay not impressed by there actions.
That’s very distressing to hear, and quite unnecessary.
If she was subjected to personal abuse she should not stand for it and make a formal complaint.
I would support her if she did what to put in a formal complaint,but I think that for 'diplomatic' response this will just be left to pass.
Guys, this is pretty unedifying for a Friday night.
Maybe it’d be better to just rise above it and change the subject.
I have been and still am under the weather with a bug but have been popping in on the odd occasion and to be honest it is time for everyone to move on and accept we are out next week and get behind the country to make it a success
I wasn’t making a point about Brexit.
I was referring to two regular posters on here I both respect who I thought were acting beneath themselves.
Sorry to hear you’re unwell.
Thank you and it is rather unpleasant but the doctor has prescribed antibiotics for the next 7 days
And I agree with your second paragraph completely
Do not forget to take probiotics after the antibiotics.
Actually I drink a probiotic every morning and have a yogurt at tea time most every day, but thank you
Guys, this is pretty unedifying for a Friday night.
Maybe it’d be better to just rise above it and change the subject.
I have been and still am under the weather with a bug but have been popping in on the odd occasion and to be honest it is time for everyone to move on and accept we are out next week and get behind the country to make it a success
"It" cannot be a success. It is a divisive disaster. It can be mitigated though by people who own and run businesses to try and carry on in spite of a bunch of idiots thinking "it" is a good idea. That is what we have done and will continue to do. I will not be putting on my Union Jack boxers and thinking " I am doing this for good old blighty" and neither will anyone else.
I know you hate brexit and as a remain voter I can understand that but calling people who disagree with you as idiots contributes nil to the discussion.
I cannot imagine why anyone would wear Union Jack boxers but many millions will demonstrate pride in the Country and yes, the Union Jack
Union Jack boxers? Pah, Union Jack thongs are where it's at!
< A much bigger worry is that the policies of the current government, in particular as regards deficit spending, will worsen current imbalances. Simply, the government spending ahead of revenues will tend to increase the balance of payments deficit. (Because the government is dissaving for the country as a whole.)
This is my big worry with Johnson and his round of pledges and promises. Quite apart from the capital and vanity projects targeted at the new Tory heartlands in the north (and let's not forget we still need a third Thames Crossing east of Tower Bridge), there's the difficult stuff such as funding adult social care and the care of vulnerable children.
I accept the care funding problem may be resolvable over time but there will be a more immediate issue as the baby boomers reach and pass retirement age.
Visited the Canary Wharf Winter Lights exhibits last night. Definitely worth visiting if you're in the area before it closes on Sunday evening.
Thanks, might check I out at the weekend.
I have a feeling it will be very crowded on Saturday and Sunday since it will be the final opportunity for people to see it. Official hours are 4pm to 10pm. Apparently it's been taking place every year since 2015 although I didn't know about it until a few days ago.
In the US, Sanders has topped another National Democratic Primary poll.
But...
He's only on 19%.
That's an extraordinarily open race.
I know no-one cares about the US, but the Ipsos poll out today is extraordinary:
Sanders drops one point to 19% Biden drops six points to 18% Warren drops two points to 12%
Don't Know is going to win this race by a country mile.
Would that be Don't Know Rodham Clinton?
Sanders would definitely get it this time if Hillary ran again, Bloomberg has already split much of the moderate vote away from Biden and Buttigieg and she would do so even more. In 2016 she barely beat Sanders with the moderate lane all to herself
I have been and still am under the weather with a bug but have been popping in on the odd occasion and to be honest it is time for everyone to move on and accept we are out next week and get behind the country to make it a success
The problem is that when Conservatives say "Get behind the country", they really mean "Get behind the hard right-wing Tory project" - which will destroy th environment, social relations and the welfare state.
So no thank you very much. Th shambolic prime minister who currently occupies No 10 does not represent me.
I do not accept for one minute this is a hard right government and Boris is a liberal conservative and will carry out policies to benefit the environment and social relations.
Only this week he has introduced 'Jacks' law for bereaved parents of children under 18 and will host the international climate change conference in Glasgow in the autumn.
The left are going to have to find a new way of attacking this government as hard right does not wash
Thatcher's cabinet was less right-wing. Her speech to the UN in 1990 was possibly less vacuous than anything likely to come out of this government in speeches in Glasgow. She and Gummer actually understood climate change.
There was an Earth Summit at Rio in 1992. It didn't mean that most politicians did anything although a few small countries like Sweden and Denmark have established decent records. The cynicism within the UK government was legendary.
In the US, Sanders has topped another National Democratic Primary poll.
But...
He's only on 19%.
That's an extraordinarily open race.
I know no-one cares about the US, but the Ipsos poll out today is extraordinary:
Sanders drops one point to 19% Biden drops six points to 18% Warren drops two points to 12%
Don't Know is going to win this race by a country mile.
Would that be Don't Know Rodham Clinton?
Sanders would definitely get it this time if Hillary ran again, Bloomberg has already split much of the moderate vote away from Biden and Buttigieg and she would do so even more. In 2016 she barely beat Sanders with the moderate lane all to herself
Yes, but Hillary's not running again. She's not on the ballot in - oohhhh... - any states.
I think @williamglenn was making a joke about how some people will see literally anything as a reason for why Hillary will be the nominee.
I have been and still am under the weather with a bug but have been popping in on the odd occasion and to be honest it is time for everyone to move on and accept we are out next week and get behind the country to make it a success
The problem is that when Conservatives say "Get behind the country", they really mean "Get behind the hard right-wing Tory project" - which will destroy th environment, social relations and the welfare state.
So no thank you very much. Th shambolic prime minister who currently occupies No 10 does not represent me.
I do not accept for one minute this is a hard right government and Boris is a liberal conservative and will carry out policies to benefit the environment and social relations.
Only this week he has introduced 'Jacks' law for bereaved parents of children under 18 and will host the international climate change conference in Glasgow in the autumn.
The left are going to have to find a new way of attacking this government as hard right does not wash
Come, come BigG. Boris is naturally a social liberal, but his paymasters are very socially and fiscally conservative. We will see how he squares that circle. I fear he will fold.
Comments
Could there ever in practice be a "Twelve Angry Men" type scenario where an extremely persuasive Henry Fonda type figure slowly but surely turns the Hall the way of his or her preferred candidate?
Rogan was answering a straight question from Weiss about who he would be voting for.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=F0PT_vQXtZM
But there's a grain of truth in it. Most Remainers have concerns over the impact of Brexit, not just short term but in decades to come. A minority, though, have undoubtedly tipped into willing Brexit to fail. That makes me more than uncomfortable - I genuinely hope my fears are unwarranted and it all goes well.
Where Byronic is wrong is the implication that the extreme position is that widespread amongst Remainers beyond a vocal group.
For most of us, I think, we're sanguine about the situation, but get a bit annoyed about being ordered to change our minds just because Leave and Johnson won elections. We accept Leavers have won the right to do it there way, but why on earth should the rest of us pretend to think it's a good idea, or hide the fact they are worried about the impact, or join in with celebrating an event that we think is more likely to harm our compatriots than help them?
The Met said that standalone cameras would scan passers-by in specific areas of the city for five to six hours at a time, searching for people suspected of serious and violent crimes such as gun and knife attacks and child sexual exploitation.
The Met police’s decision comes after an independent review it commissioned last year published a damning report about the force’s trial deployments in the British capital, saying the technology was only accurate 19 per cent of the time, and was likely to contravene human rights."
If that were the opening crawl text to a dystopian sci fi flick you'd be thinking Please don't insult my intelligence, like that would ever happen.
I love the 5-6 hour stints (cameras need lunch breaks, obv), the 19% figure in a report they themselves commissioned, and the suggestion that the Government's powers are limited to making "calls" about stuff they disapprove of.
That is surely reserved for the likes of Mr Meeks here and others like sweary Dunt and more that get quoted here who have long since jumped the shark.
Alternatively, he was subject to the most gross of provocations...
The spectator's comments were not broadcast, though it is understood that the spectator involved, who is middle-aged, suggested Stokes looked like the singer, Ed Sheeran....
It's a case, I feel, of "something must be done - this is something - let's do it" almost as if there has to be a response whether that response is reasonable, appropriate, proportionate or not. I'm opposed to extending the power of the State and security authorities just for the sake of it but it's popular.
The other aspect is one of expectations management - Boris has made a lot of pledges and promises, some of which may well be achievable (getting us out of the EU) while some may be rather more fraught and with big questions over HS2 and LHR3, I'm tempted to question the degree of fiscal responsibility.
Yes, it's a good time to borrow (though that won't last forever) but borrowing means future debt repayment and I question the fiscal responsibility. There's no problem with successful capital investment if it generates economic growth which would not otherwise have happened but there's a difference between that and vanity projects to curry political favour.
Remainer, remoaner, remainiac.
Brexiter, Brexiteer, Brexitard.
However, the core point for me is that the benefits of promoting diversity, whilst yes they can be overly earnest sometimes, MASSIVELY outweigh the irritation it sometimes causes me. Furthermore, I am wary of those who get their knickers in a twist, Meldrew like, over too much diversity on screen. I think their wiring has gone wrong and I start worrying about other things.
Another example. Let's imagine a society that is short of successful black middle-class role models. Now, given that, which of the following does the more damage? That fictional dramas in their quest for authenticity never ever show black characters as architects? Or that in a quest to promote diversity it seems that every architect in a drama is black?
I raise this hypothetically, I stress. I know that there are in fact very few TV dramas - or indeed movies - that feature architects of any ethnicity. But, you know, doctors, solicitors, accountants. Same point.
But, that's probably not going to happen. EU membership is, on the list of things that determine our long-term prosperity, not that high.
A much bigger worry is that the policies of the current government, in particular as regards deficit spending, will worsen current imbalances. Simply, the government spending ahead of revenues will tend to increase the balance of payments deficit. (Because the government is dissaving for the country as a whole.)
* I'm not forecasting this
I've often pointed out many migrants don't see themselves as English, Welsh or Scottish but as British and there is a new British nation developing from the migrant population which sees things very differently to the traditional English, Welsh, Irish and Scottish identities.
The second question is how the EU will respond to the departure of the UK. With the emergence of Salvini, Orban and others, the federalist agenda is on the back foot and it may be we'll see a move back to a more "Europe des patries" notion which existed in the EEC days.
It's also possible (indeed likely) the populist wave will run its course and retreat. Climate change, by definition, requires regional if not global action and breathing bad air in London is the same as breathing bad air in Vienna or Bucharest at the end of the day.
I still think the events of 1989 badly derailed the federalist agenda - had the Berlin Wall never fallen, I suspect the non-Communist states (except Sweden, Switzerland a few of the minnows) would have moved much closer to financial and political unification.
Reminds me a bit of the ill-informed* being in favour of using the polygraph as part of the post-release observance of paedophiles.
*Politicians from the Labour, Conservative, and Liberal Democrat parties.
Perhaps chronic vitamin B12 shortage slows the thought processes.
A little bit of humour at Jess Philips expense on a Friday afternoon.
A case of ooo they are awful but I like them. Or I did when I was 15 anyway. And again at 28. Not sure what I'd make of them now. I would hope that I would fail to get through one.
Those are not contradictory statements.
How confident are we that our values today will stand up to scrutiny by the generation alive and reviewing them in 100 years time?
Different times.
Then again, Honor Blackman is a pretty feminist character (for the time) later in the film, even those she’s called um.. pussy galore.
I would consider a "remoaner" to be a very firm remainer who is deeply unhappy with what is happening with Brexit and lets people know they're not happy. Up to you to determine if you consider that to be gratuitous abuse or if I made a mistake linking you with that. If you don't think that applies to you then I'd apologise, politely not profusely, but I must have misread your posts if that does not apply to you.
Instead of doubling down, apologise right now.
And he does it whilst wearing THIS -
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiK9KLS5JznAhVBQBoKHRMABvQQjRx6BAgBEAQ&url=https://www.pinterest.com/pin/187532771953109878/&psig=AOvVaw1qFQtZUBBshKFqRCXb1dG_&ust=1579974185193467
As for an apology, I'm sorry if I offended you, that was not the intention.
@AlastairMeeks @Philip_Thompson
Guys, this is pretty unedifying for a Friday night.
Maybe it’d be better to just rise above it and change the subject.
I mean, it’d be considered pretty filthy today, yet alone then.
I'm sorry that I did that in your absence. I didn't think about you being absent - on a site when you can't see who is or is not online your absence didn't cross my mind. You're a regular poster here, its not like this is a bar and we can see who is or is not present and that was not the intention so I am sorry that I upset you.
https://youtu.be/AuUrNukZxvc
The country is in a spiral of long term decline now, but it's not as simple as saying that reversing Brexit now is the cure. The country has worse to get through first.
I was referring to two regular posters on here I both respect who I thought were acting beneath themselves.
Sorry to hear you’re unwell.
It’s just very graphically sexual. Those were prudish times, so it’s just notable it got through.
Indeed the IMF are far from positive about the EU and expect our growth to be better
Visited the Canary Wharf Winter Lights exhibits last night. Definitely worth visiting if you're in the area before it closes on Sunday evening.
My wife, works for one of the UK regulates, in that role she alongside equivalents form all EU nations attends meetings with the EU agency for the same industry.
She has just got back home form the last one before BREXIT, where for the first time was the subject of not just hostility but abuse, and ostracizing, and what came across as illogical blaming for 'everything'
The personal abuse seems especially uncalled for as she is a New Zealand national that was not able to vote in the referendum.
But its also interesting that this is the first and only time this has happen, I can only conclude that this is the first time that its sunk in that we will leave, and they are feeling rejected, but open to other interpretations if anybody whats to suggest them.
She has also been, formally or should that be ceremonially dis-invited to the next meeting, I say ceremonially as she will be attending long term as her industry is covered by one of the 'technical agreements' already agreed to
Maybe I'm just being defensive for her, but i'm relay not impressed by there actions.
And I agree with your second paragraph completely
So no thank you very much. Th shambolic prime minister who currently occupies No 10 does not represent me.
I cannot imagine why anyone would wear Union Jack boxers but many millions will demonstrate pride in the Country and yes, the Union Jack
If she was subjected to personal abuse she should not stand for it and make a formal complaint.
(BTW I am not a vegan!)
I did not make that up. Actually, it is worse than I remembered it as being.
Mind you I re-read Thunderball the other day and it was excellent.
https://canarywharf.com/arts-events/events/winter-lights-jan-2020
(only kidding!)
Only this week he has introduced 'Jacks' law for bereaved parents of children under 18 and will host the international climate change conference in Glasgow in the autumn.
The left are going to have to find a new way of attacking this government as hard right does not wash
Stand up for the Burgon!
I accept the care funding problem may be resolvable over time but there will be a more immediate issue as the baby boomers reach and pass retirement age.
https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1220768170568507394?s=20
There was an Earth Summit at Rio in 1992. It didn't mean that most politicians did anything although a few small countries like Sweden and Denmark have established decent records. The cynicism within the UK government was legendary.
I think @williamglenn was making a joke about how some people will see literally anything as a reason for why Hillary will be the nominee.
Northern Ireland Update :
Seamus Mallon (Former SDLP Deputy Leader) has sadly passed away.
May your soul rest in peace.
Carry On films. Mr Humphries. Etc.