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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Henry G Manson resurfaces after 4 years and says Lisa Nandy is

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  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,770
    What authority does Cummings have to run recruitment for the Civil Service?

    If I was the HR director I would be on the war path tonight.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652

    What authority does Cummings have to run recruitment for the Civil Service?

    If I was the HR director I would be on the war path tonight.

    Imagine trying the usual "We are an inclusive"... "gender identity" "blah blah"
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861
    I had already backed Nandy at 6/1 and I’ve been concerned by the drift in her price. But Henry G has a great record on Labour Party matters - so I’ve gone in again at 12/1, (13/1 with Ladbrokes boost).

    Go Lisa!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,770
    EPG said:

    What authority does Cummings have to run recruitment for the Civil Service?

    If I was the HR director I would be on the war path tonight.

    Imagine trying the usual "We are an inclusive"... "gender identity" "blah blah"
    We are "weirdo blind"
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149

    What authority does Cummings have to run recruitment for the Civil Service?

    If I was the HR director I would be on the war path tonight.

    He works for the elected government. In the US all the top civil service jobs are awarded by the incoming presidential administration
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,386
    edited January 2020
    HYUFD said:

    What authority does Cummings have to run recruitment for the Civil Service?

    If I was the HR director I would be on the war path tonight.

    He works for the elected government. In the US all the top civil service jobs are awarded by the incoming presidential administration
    Are we in the US now? Blimey, I missed that!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nandy is my hunch too. Soft Left. Woman. Good on TV. Not much baggage. She touched crazy 50 type prices on Betfair earlier. I did not act sadly.

    I am on record as saying Nandy would be the most dangerous for the Tories to have to confront.
    She wouldn't, a lettuce has more personality and she voted against the Withdrawal Agreement on every occasion so has no real appeal to Leavers either
    I agree. Nandy has shown neither leadership nor charisma, and no Labour leaver will be Leave enough for the frothers, as Caroline Flint found out.

    Starmer may well be good at fisking BoZo in parliament, but either Rayner or Jess would get my juices flowing.
    The Labour vote fell by 14.8% in Don Valley, one of the lowest in the 'mining belt'

    By comparison Ed Miliband and Yvette Cooper saw falls of over 20%.

    If a dozen more Labour MPs had voted the same as Caroline Flint in the HoC then we wouldn't now have a Boris majority government.
    I am sure that Smeeth, Flint and Onn are greatly comforted by these words.

    I see very little evidence that collaborating with the Tories protected those Labour MPs.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652

    EPG said:

    What authority does Cummings have to run recruitment for the Civil Service?

    If I was the HR director I would be on the war path tonight.

    Imagine trying the usual "We are an inclusive"... "gender identity" "blah blah"
    We are "weirdo blind"
    Yeah, weirdos as long as they went to the world's best universities and won't offend anyone who gets upset by gender identity blah blah.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,228
    Alistair said:

    If you play office politics, you will be discovered and immediately binned.


    Is the quote of a man who is an idiot. The point of office politics is you don't detect it. It is done in secret.

    This is the kind of empty platitude that some says to look tough and on the ball but there is absolutely zero to back it up.

    It's also fundamentally bullshit. Almost everyone I know who's successfully climbed the greasy poll, whether at Goldman or anywhere else, has done it by assiduously courting favour with the right people.

    That's office politics.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nandy is my hunch too. Soft Left. Woman. Good on TV. Not much baggage. She touched crazy 50 type prices on Betfair earlier. I did not act sadly.

    I am on record as saying Nandy would be the most dangerous for the Tories to have to confront.
    She wouldn't, a lettuce has more personality and she voted against the Withdrawal Agreement on every occasion so has no real appeal to Leavers either
    I agree. Nandy has shown neither leadership nor charisma, and no Labour leaver will be Leave enough for the frothers, as Caroline Flint found out.

    Starmer may well be good at fisking BoZo in parliament, but either Rayner or Jess would get my juices flowing.
    The Labour vote fell by 14.8% in Don Valley, one of the lowest in the 'mining belt'

    By comparison Ed Miliband and Yvette Cooper saw falls of over 20%.

    If a dozen more Labour MPs had voted the same as Caroline Flint in the HoC then we wouldn't now have a Boris majority government.
    I am sure that Smeeth, Flint and Onn are greatly comforted by these words.

    I see very little evidence that collaborating with the Tories protected those Labour MPs.
    Maybe in addition to an attempt at damage reduction, unsuccessfully, they did what they thought was right?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609

    What authority does Cummings have to run recruitment for the Civil Service?

    If I was the HR director I would be on the war path tonight.

    With full Sioux war-bonnet.

    That might be enough to make Cummings look twice at them. As they re-apply for their current job....
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,770
    EPG said:

    EPG said:

    What authority does Cummings have to run recruitment for the Civil Service?

    If I was the HR director I would be on the war path tonight.

    Imagine trying the usual "We are an inclusive"... "gender identity" "blah blah"
    We are "weirdo blind"
    Yeah, weirdos as long as they went to the world's best universities and won't offend anyone who gets upset by gender identity blah blah.
    I think The Thick of it needs to return with a Cummings character clashing with Malcolm.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127

    What authority does Cummings have to run recruitment for the Civil Service?

    He isn't. Spads aren't Civil Service, hence the fuss.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited January 2020
    .
    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    If you play office politics, you will be discovered and immediately binned.


    Is the quote of a man who is an idiot. The point of office politics is you don't detect it. It is done in secret.

    This is the kind of empty platitude that some says to look tough and on the ball but there is absolutely zero to back it up.

    It's also fundamentally bullshit. Almost everyone I know who's successfully climbed the greasy poll, whether at Goldman or anywhere else, has done it by assiduously courting favour with the right people.

    That's office politics.
    I bet Classic Dom believes he always assiduously assess people only on the quality of their work and never on any non quantifiable features and absolutely not on what he thinks about them on a personal level.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Thank you Henry G.

    In response to your tip I backed Nandy at 18 and have now been able to lay her off at 12 to repair some of my Starmer hole.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nandy is my hunch too. Soft Left. Woman. Good on TV. Not much baggage. She touched crazy 50 type prices on Betfair earlier. I did not act sadly.

    I am on record as saying Nandy would be the most dangerous for the Tories to have to confront.
    She wouldn't, a lettuce has more personality and she voted against the Withdrawal Agreement on every occasion so has no real appeal to Leavers either
    I agree. Nandy has shown neither leadership nor charisma, and no Labour leaver will be Leave enough for the frothers, as Caroline Flint found out.

    Starmer may well be good at fisking BoZo in parliament, but either Rayner or Jess would get my juices flowing.
    The Labour vote fell by 14.8% in Don Valley, one of the lowest in the 'mining belt'

    By comparison Ed Miliband and Yvette Cooper saw falls of over 20%.

    If a dozen more Labour MPs had voted the same as Caroline Flint in the HoC then we wouldn't now have a Boris majority government.
    I am sure that Smeeth, Flint and Onn are greatly comforted by these words.

    I see very little evidence that collaborating with the Tories protected those Labour MPs.
    Maybe in addition to an attempt at damage reduction, unsuccessfully, they did what they thought was right?
    Yes, Like Grieve, Lee, etc.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,770
    https://twitter.com/BenJolly9/status/1212852934087761920

    Yeh, that's right, Starmer was why Labour voters whose parents and grandparents had always voted Lab, turned away.

    Naught to do with the Blessed Corbyn.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    If you play office politics, you will be discovered and immediately binned.


    Is the quote of a man who is an idiot. The point of office politics is you don't detect it. It is done in secret.

    This is the kind of empty platitude that some says to look tough and on the ball but there is absolutely zero to back it up.

    It's also fundamentally bullshit. Almost everyone I know who's successfully climbed the greasy poll, whether at Goldman or anywhere else, has done it by assiduously courting favour with the right people.

    That's office politics.
    Which gives him a justification to fire any potential threat or rival at any time.

    *That's* office politics...
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,622
    edited January 2020
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nandy is my hunch too. Soft Left. Woman. Good on TV. Not much baggage. She touched crazy 50 type prices on Betfair earlier. I did not act sadly.

    I am on record as saying Nandy would be the most dangerous for the Tories to have to confront.
    She wouldn't, a lettuce has more personality and she voted against the Withdrawal Agreement on every occasion so has no real appeal to Leavers either
    I agree. Nandy has shown neither leadership nor charisma, and no Labour leaver will be Leave enough for the frothers, as Caroline Flint found out.

    Starmer may well be good at fisking BoZo in parliament, but either Rayner or Jess would get my juices flowing.
    The Labour vote fell by 14.8% in Don Valley, one of the lowest in the 'mining belt'

    By comparison Ed Miliband and Yvette Cooper saw falls of over 20%.

    If a dozen more Labour MPs had voted the same as Caroline Flint in the HoC then we wouldn't now have a Boris majority government.
    I am sure that Smeeth, Flint and Onn are greatly comforted by these words.

    I see very little evidence that collaborating with the Tories protected those Labour MPs.
    Perhaps they thought it was the right thing to do or maybe they realised what the consequences of a general election before Brexit had happened would be.

    If so they knew better than the bigoted fools who claimed that Labour MPs didn't need to worry about upsetting Leave voters because a majority of 2017 Labour voters in every constituency were Remainers.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    edited January 2020

    EPG said:

    EPG said:

    What authority does Cummings have to run recruitment for the Civil Service?

    If I was the HR director I would be on the war path tonight.

    Imagine trying the usual "We are an inclusive"... "gender identity" "blah blah"
    We are "weirdo blind"
    Yeah, weirdos as long as they went to the world's best universities and won't offend anyone who gets upset by gender identity blah blah.
    I think The Thick of it needs to return with a Cummings character clashing with Malcolm.
    I think they already covered the Tory svengali with an obsession with weirdness and oppositional blue-sky thinking.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127
    Alistair said:

    ...to repair some of my Starmer hole.

    A Starm drain... :)

  • Keir appears to be Starming ahead.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    If you play office politics, you will be discovered and immediately binned.


    Is the quote of a man who is an idiot. The point of office politics is you don't detect it. It is done in secret.

    This is the kind of empty platitude that some says to look tough and on the ball but there is absolutely zero to back it up.

    It's also fundamentally bullshit. Almost everyone I know who's successfully climbed the greasy poll, whether at Goldman or anywhere else, has done it by assiduously courting favour with the right people.

    That's office politics.
    Yup, get on the right side of the right people, that's always the game plan at any company. Also, learn when and how to say no to senior management. Those are my two tips for getting ahead in life.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,770
    EPG said:

    EPG said:

    EPG said:

    What authority does Cummings have to run recruitment for the Civil Service?

    If I was the HR director I would be on the war path tonight.

    Imagine trying the usual "We are an inclusive"... "gender identity" "blah blah"
    We are "weirdo blind"
    Yeah, weirdos as long as they went to the world's best universities and won't offend anyone who gets upset by gender identity blah blah.
    I think The Thick of it needs to return with a Cummings character clashing with Malcolm.
    I think they already covered the Tory svengali with an obsession with weirdness and oppositional blue-sky thinking.
    Stewart is positively Northcote-Trevelyan compared to Cummings.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    EPG said:

    EPG said:

    EPG said:

    What authority does Cummings have to run recruitment for the Civil Service?

    If I was the HR director I would be on the war path tonight.

    Imagine trying the usual "We are an inclusive"... "gender identity" "blah blah"
    We are "weirdo blind"
    Yeah, weirdos as long as they went to the world's best universities and won't offend anyone who gets upset by gender identity blah blah.
    I think The Thick of it needs to return with a Cummings character clashing with Malcolm.
    I think they already covered the Tory svengali with an obsession with weirdness and oppositional blue-sky thinking.
    That was a play on Steve Hilton iirc.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,880
    edited January 2020

    https://twitter.com/BenJolly9/status/1212852934087761920

    Yeh, that's right, Starmer was why Labour voters whose parents and grandparents had always voted Lab, turned away.

    Naught to do with the Blessed Corbyn.

    image
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,484
    I think people (as always with Cummings) may be responding to his dramatics by thinking these changes amount to more than they do.

    Appealing to weirdos is not new - the MOD have been doing much the same thing. Wanting to cast the net for applicants wider than it is currently - a good thing. Getting rid of office politics, of course you'll never do that, but by coming out as 'anti' office politics you might get more applicants who know that isn't their strength feeling comfortable enough to apply.

    I've read a lot of people saying 'I think I could be what he's looking for', and even if at the moment these people aren't serious, I think that's a great thing.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited January 2020
    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    If you play office politics, you will be discovered and immediately binned.


    Is the quote of a man who is an idiot. The point of office politics is you don't detect it. It is done in secret.

    This is the kind of empty platitude that some says to look tough and on the ball but there is absolutely zero to back it up.

    It's also fundamentally bullshit. Almost everyone I know who's successfully climbed the greasy poll, whether at Goldman or anywhere else, has done it by assiduously courting favour with the right people.

    That's office politics.
    I think Cummings sees himself as the "right person" that the hire needs to assiduously court favour with and his definition of "playing office politics" leading to a binning is those that don't court his favour.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127
    Anyhoo, I am loving the BBC "Dracula". It's "Sherlock" with gore. The writers are doing such a good job of handling Sister Agatha as a female Doctor it makes me wish they were still writing for "Doctor Who". I know everybody here has the hate on for the Beeb, but I think it's brilliant.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    If you play office politics, you will be discovered and immediately binned.


    Is the quote of a man who is an idiot. The point of office politics is you don't detect it. It is done in secret.

    This is the kind of empty platitude that some says to look tough and on the ball but there is absolutely zero to back it up.

    It's also fundamentally bullshit. Almost everyone I know who's successfully climbed the greasy poll, whether at Goldman or anywhere else, has done it by assiduously courting favour with the right people.

    That's office politics.
    That's not really my experience, FWIW. Neither where I've been successful in industry and the voluntary sector, nor where I've seen others who were. There's some of that in politics, of course, but the key thing political leaders look for is loyalty followed by competence. They mostly aren't that interested in flattery, Trump being an obvious exception.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    viewcode said:

    Anyhoo, I am loving the BBC "Dracula". It's "Sherlock" with gore. The writers are doing such a good job of handling Sister Agatha as a female Doctor it makes me wish they were still writing for "Doctor Who". I know everybody here has the hate on for the Beeb, but I think it's brilliant.

    Horror/Gothic isn't my thing at all - but I am enjoying this. Some very neat twists. Some clever nods. Good amount of humour. Genuinely shocking.

    Really didn't see the end of ep2 coming.

    I am pretty certain this isn't a one-off series.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127
    MaxPB said:

    Those are my two tips for getting ahead in life.

    1: never turn down a job
    2: start applying for the next job soon after starting this one.

    Always good to have an escape route... :)

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127

    viewcode said:

    Anyhoo, I am loving the BBC "Dracula". It's "Sherlock" with gore. The writers are doing such a good job of handling Sister Agatha as a female Doctor it makes me wish they were still writing for "Doctor Who". I know everybody here has the hate on for the Beeb, but I think it's brilliant.

    Horror/Gothic isn't my thing at all - but I am enjoying this. Some very neat twists. Some clever nods. Good amount of humour. Genuinely shocking.

    Really didn't see the end of ep2 coming.

    I am pretty certain this isn't a one-off series.
    It's outrageous how much it is just a Sherlock photocopy, but as Moffat&Gatiss are the best at doing that sort of drama and they can't drag Cumberbatch and Bilbo back from Marvel, I'm more than happy to take it.

    I am also glad they decided to keep Agatha on, She's really good, and when I get my Tardis I'll pop back to 2017 and stand in front of the Doctor Who writers and say "LOOK! THIS IS HOW YOU DO IT, YOU DUMB F***S!". Not that I'm twitchy or anything... :)
  • dodradedodrade Posts: 597

    On Topic

    I think Nandy has a chance.

    Even though she is well to the right of the Membership her Brexit views are attractive to me.

    I would say there is a real chance i could vote for her depending on what she says in the Campaign about other non Brexit issues.

    If she hadn't been part of the Chicken Coup she would definitely have my vote as it is i guess there is a circa 50% chance I will vote for her.

    Nandy was always a remainer, stringing along her leave supporting constituents but voting against May's deal three times.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,228
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    If you play office politics, you will be discovered and immediately binned.


    Is the quote of a man who is an idiot. The point of office politics is you don't detect it. It is done in secret.

    This is the kind of empty platitude that some says to look tough and on the ball but there is absolutely zero to back it up.

    It's also fundamentally bullshit. Almost everyone I know who's successfully climbed the greasy poll, whether at Goldman or anywhere else, has done it by assiduously courting favour with the right people.

    That's office politics.
    Yup, get on the right side of the right people, that's always the game plan at any company. Also, learn when and how to say no to senior management. Those are my two tips for getting ahead in life.
    If asked to join an obviously doomed project, you have to say no, no matter how much the CEO begs you.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,228

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    If you play office politics, you will be discovered and immediately binned.


    Is the quote of a man who is an idiot. The point of office politics is you don't detect it. It is done in secret.

    This is the kind of empty platitude that some says to look tough and on the ball but there is absolutely zero to back it up.

    It's also fundamentally bullshit. Almost everyone I know who's successfully climbed the greasy poll, whether at Goldman or anywhere else, has done it by assiduously courting favour with the right people.

    That's office politics.
    That's not really my experience, FWIW. Neither where I've been successful in industry and the voluntary sector, nor where I've seen others who were. There's some of that in politics, of course, but the key thing political leaders look for is loyalty followed by competence. They mostly aren't that interested in flattery, Trump being an obvious exception.
    "the key thing political leaders look for is loyalty"

    Yes, who you choose to be loyal to IS office politics.
  • dodradedodrade Posts: 597

    EPG said:

    EPG said:

    What authority does Cummings have to run recruitment for the Civil Service?

    If I was the HR director I would be on the war path tonight.

    Imagine trying the usual "We are an inclusive"... "gender identity" "blah blah"
    We are "weirdo blind"
    Yeah, weirdos as long as they went to the world's best universities and won't offend anyone who gets upset by gender identity blah blah.
    I think The Thick of it needs to return with a Cummings character clashing with Malcolm.
    We need the "Brexit: The Uncivil War" sequel where Benedict Cumberbatch returns to save the day first.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    If you play office politics, you will be discovered and immediately binned.


    Is the quote of a man who is an idiot. The point of office politics is you don't detect it. It is done in secret.

    This is the kind of empty platitude that some says to look tough and on the ball but there is absolutely zero to back it up.

    It's also fundamentally bullshit. Almost everyone I know who's successfully climbed the greasy poll, whether at Goldman or anywhere else, has done it by assiduously courting favour with the right people.

    That's office politics.
    Yup, get on the right side of the right people, that's always the game plan at any company. Also, learn when and how to say no to senior management. Those are my two tips for getting ahead in life.
    If asked to join an obviously doomed project, you have to say no, no matter how much the CEO begs you.
    Not necessarily. If you pick up a good salary and good experience, and it keeps going for over 18 months, it doesn't look that bad on your CV and you've got a great response to the "why did you leave your last job" question.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    You guys are right to doubt Cummings.

    Apart from deliver Brexit and a stonking majority what’s he ever done ?

    But yeah how dare he try and make things better..
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    The Scottish Parliament needs full fiscal autonomy.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    edited January 2020
    nunu2 said:

    The Scottish Parliament needs full fiscal autonomy.


    Jarvid must cut National Insurance-Holyrood can’t overturn that Tory tax cut ...
  • dodrade said:

    EPG said:

    EPG said:

    What authority does Cummings have to run recruitment for the Civil Service?

    If I was the HR director I would be on the war path tonight.

    Imagine trying the usual "We are an inclusive"... "gender identity" "blah blah"
    We are "weirdo blind"
    Yeah, weirdos as long as they went to the world's best universities and won't offend anyone who gets upset by gender identity blah blah.
    I think The Thick of it needs to return with a Cummings character clashing with Malcolm.
    We need the "Brexit: The Uncivil War" sequel where Benedict Cumberbatch returns to save the day first.
    Cummings to a cinema near you!
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    TGOHF666 said:

    nunu2 said:

    The Scottish Parliament needs full fiscal autonomy.


    Jarvid must cut National Insurance-Holyrood can’t overturn that Tory tax cut ...
    I don't know why more Tories aren't more worried about Scotland going independent? If that happens under a Tory government you will lose English support. Don't for a second think it will bring political advantage to the the Conservative and Unioist party.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    TGOHF666 said:

    You guys are right to doubt Cummings.

    Apart from deliver Brexit and a stonking majority what’s he ever done ?

    But yeah how dare he try and make things better..

    Nah he did those things by scaring people about foreigners and the future

    No evidence he can inspire people in a positive way - CF Education
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    EPG said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    You guys are right to doubt Cummings.

    Apart from deliver Brexit and a stonking majority what’s he ever done ?

    But yeah how dare he try and make things better..

    Nah he did those things by scaring people about foreigners and the future

    No evidence he can inspire people in a positive way - CF Education
    Yeah it was all luck.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127
    TGOHF666 said:

    ...Apart from deliver Brexit and a stonking majority what’s he ever done ?....

    Who do you think is running the country: Cummings or Boris? Genuine question.

  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    nunu2 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    nunu2 said:

    The Scottish Parliament needs full fiscal autonomy.


    Jarvid must cut National Insurance-Holyrood can’t overturn that Tory tax cut ...
    I don't know why more Tories aren't more worried about Scotland going independent? If that happens under a Tory government you will lose English support. Don't for a second think it will bring political advantage to the the Conservative and Unioist party.
    Brexit kills Sindy.

    Scots with mortgages and pensions in British pounds won’t touch the Euro with a barge pole.

  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    viewcode said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    ...Apart from deliver Brexit and a stonking majority what’s he ever done ?....

    Who do you think is running the country: Cummings or Boris? Genuine question.

    Boris - if DC doesn’t cut the mustard he is out. But his leash is currently pretty long.

    The civil service needs a kick up the Backside - welcome it.
  • viewcode said:

    Anyhoo, I am loving the BBC "Dracula". It's "Sherlock" with gore. The writers are doing such a good job of handling Sister Agatha as a female Doctor it makes me wish they were still writing for "Doctor Who". I know everybody here has the hate on for the Beeb, but I think it's brilliant.

    Horror/Gothic isn't my thing at all - but I am enjoying this. Some very neat twists. Some clever nods. Good amount of humour. Genuinely shocking.

    Really didn't see the end of ep2 coming.

    I am pretty certain this isn't a one-off series.
    I haven't watched it, is it worth watching?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127
    TGOHF666 said:

    viewcode said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    ...Apart from deliver Brexit and a stonking majority what’s he ever done ?....

    Who do you think is running the country: Cummings or Boris? Genuine question.

    Boris - if DC doesn’t cut the mustard he is out. But his leash is currently pretty long.

    The civil service needs a kick up the Backside - welcome it.
    I'm not sure they do.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    nunu2 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    nunu2 said:

    The Scottish Parliament needs full fiscal autonomy.


    Jarvid must cut National Insurance-Holyrood can’t overturn that Tory tax cut ...
    I don't know why more Tories aren't more worried about Scotland going independent? If that happens under a Tory government you will lose English support. Don't for a second think it will bring political advantage to the the Conservative and Unioist party.
    The Tories won a majority of 156 at the last general election in England.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_England

    The Tories remain committed to the Union which is why they had a manifesto commitment to block indyref2 for their full 5 year term but the biggest losers from Scottish independence would be Labour and the left
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    viewcode said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    viewcode said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    ...Apart from deliver Brexit and a stonking majority what’s he ever done ?....

    Who do you think is running the country: Cummings or Boris? Genuine question.

    Boris - if DC doesn’t cut the mustard he is out. But his leash is currently pretty long.

    The civil service needs a kick up the Backside - welcome it.
    I'm not sure they do.
    Every organisation in the world needs to continually update itself.

    Spoiler - nobody who isn’t a civil servant or is shagging a civil servant will care two hoots for any teeth gnashing - probably they will enjoy it.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,228
    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    If you play office politics, you will be discovered and immediately binned.


    Is the quote of a man who is an idiot. The point of office politics is you don't detect it. It is done in secret.

    This is the kind of empty platitude that some says to look tough and on the ball but there is absolutely zero to back it up.

    It's also fundamentally bullshit. Almost everyone I know who's successfully climbed the greasy poll, whether at Goldman or anywhere else, has done it by assiduously courting favour with the right people.

    That's office politics.
    Yup, get on the right side of the right people, that's always the game plan at any company. Also, learn when and how to say no to senior management. Those are my two tips for getting ahead in life.
    If asked to join an obviously doomed project, you have to say no, no matter how much the CEO begs you.
    Not necessarily. If you pick up a good salary and good experience, and it keeps going for over 18 months, it doesn't look that bad on your CV and you've got a great response to the "why did you leave your last job" question.
    Being involved in a project which is (obviously) going to crash and burn is no fun, irrespective of the salary. Working on something that works, on the other hand, is fun. And you're more likely to keep drawing the salary if, you know, the project doesn't die.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    TGOHF666 said:

    viewcode said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    viewcode said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    ...Apart from deliver Brexit and a stonking majority what’s he ever done ?....

    Who do you think is running the country: Cummings or Boris? Genuine question.

    Boris - if DC doesn’t cut the mustard he is out. But his leash is currently pretty long.

    The civil service needs a kick up the Backside - welcome it.
    I'm not sure they do.
    Every organisation in the world needs to continually update itself.

    Spoiler - nobody who isn’t a civil servant or is shagging a civil servant will care two hoots for any teeth gnashing - probably they will enjoy it.
    Not updated with ideas someone saw on a blog by a self-educated AI "expert".
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited January 2020
    TGOHF666 said:

    nunu2 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    nunu2 said:

    The Scottish Parliament needs full fiscal autonomy.


    Jarvid must cut National Insurance-Holyrood can’t overturn that Tory tax cut ...
    I don't know why more Tories aren't more worried about Scotland going independent? If that happens under a Tory government you will lose English support. Don't for a second think it will bring political advantage to the the Conservative and Unioist party.
    Brexit kills Sindy.

    Scots with mortgages and pensions in British pounds won’t touch the Euro with a barge pole.

    If the SNP had been smart they’d have grabbed May’s deal.

    Now SINDY + EU = hardest of hard borders with rUK ( which accounts for 4 times as much of Scotland’s trade than the EU.) That will become progressively clearer as the “Irish sea it isn’t a border really” gets implemented.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652

    TGOHF666 said:

    nunu2 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    nunu2 said:

    The Scottish Parliament needs full fiscal autonomy.


    Jarvid must cut National Insurance-Holyrood can’t overturn that Tory tax cut ...
    I don't know why more Tories aren't more worried about Scotland going independent? If that happens under a Tory government you will lose English support. Don't for a second think it will bring political advantage to the the Conservative and Unioist party.
    Brexit kills Sindy.

    Scots with mortgages and pensions in British pounds won’t touch the Euro with a barge pole.

    If the SNP had been smart they’d have grabbed May’s deal.

    Now SINDY + EU = hardest of hard borders with rUK ( which accounts for 4 times as much of Scotland’s trade than the EU.) That will become progressively clearer as the “Irish sea it isn’t a border really” gets implemented.
    That's right, people make these decisions based on economic logic and not emotion about whether they like the people governing them.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127

    viewcode said:

    Anyhoo, I am loving the BBC "Dracula". It's "Sherlock" with gore. The writers are doing such a good job of handling Sister Agatha as a female Doctor it makes me wish they were still writing for "Doctor Who". I know everybody here has the hate on for the Beeb, but I think it's brilliant.

    Horror/Gothic isn't my thing at all - but I am enjoying this. Some very neat twists. Some clever nods. Good amount of humour. Genuinely shocking.

    Really didn't see the end of ep2 coming.

    I am pretty certain this isn't a one-off series.
    I haven't watched it, is it worth watching?
    Yup: https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/p07rxf89/dracula?seriesId=p07rxf89-unindexed
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127
    TGOHF666 said:

    viewcode said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    viewcode said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    ...Apart from deliver Brexit and a stonking majority what’s he ever done ?....

    Who do you think is running the country: Cummings or Boris? Genuine question.

    Boris - if DC doesn’t cut the mustard he is out. But his leash is currently pretty long.

    The civil service needs a kick up the Backside - welcome it.
    I'm not sure they do.
    Every organisation in the world needs to continually update itself.

    Spoiler - nobody who isn’t a civil servant or is shagging a civil servant will care two hoots for any teeth gnashing - probably they will enjoy it.
    I care. And I'm not a civil servant nor am I shagging one. I don't get off on causing hardship to people I don't like.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127
    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    If you play office politics, you will be discovered and immediately binned.


    Is the quote of a man who is an idiot. The point of office politics is you don't detect it. It is done in secret.

    This is the kind of empty platitude that some says to look tough and on the ball but there is absolutely zero to back it up.

    It's also fundamentally bullshit. Almost everyone I know who's successfully climbed the greasy poll, whether at Goldman or anywhere else, has done it by assiduously courting favour with the right people.

    That's office politics.
    Yup, get on the right side of the right people, that's always the game plan at any company. Also, learn when and how to say no to senior management. Those are my two tips for getting ahead in life.
    If asked to join an obviously doomed project, you have to say no, no matter how much the CEO begs you.
    Not necessarily. If you pick up a good salary and good experience, and it keeps going for over 18 months, it doesn't look that bad on your CV and you've got a great response to the "why did you leave your last job" question.
    Being involved in a project which is (obviously) going to crash and burn is no fun, irrespective of the salary. Working on something that works, on the other hand, is fun. And you're more likely to keep drawing the salary if, you know, the project doesn't die.
    Unfortunately, one does not work for "fun". And all projects end. The trick is to use project n as a stepping stone to project n+1.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,335
    It appears the US have killed a guy called Qasim Soleimani in Bagdhad this evening, whether deliberately or accident.

    Don't know him? Look him up. He is head of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards operations outside Iran and is a very large, pretty much legend, of a figure to many. The man who has directed countless operations & attacks on US & wider Western interests over many years.

    If this is confirmed, in real military and potentially fuse lighting terms, it is a more significant kill than Bin Laden ever was.

    Some kind of major sweep on leaders of Iraqi shi'te militias, effectively run by Soleimani also appears to be underway. This is a major attempt to throttle Iranian influence, which is massive, in the country.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Yokes said:

    Some kind of major sweep on leaders of Iraqi shi'te militias, effectively run by Soleimani also appears to be underway. This is a major attempt to throttle Iranian influence, which is massive, in the country.

    That should work, provided the Iranians don't come up with a clever counterstrategy like promoting somebody else, thus replacing the assassinated leader with a new leader
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,335

    Yokes said:

    Some kind of major sweep on leaders of Iraqi shi'te militias, effectively run by Soleimani also appears to be underway. This is a major attempt to throttle Iranian influence, which is massive, in the country.

    That should work, provided the Iranians don't come up with a clever counterstrategy like promoting somebody else, thus replacing the assassinated leader with a new leader
    There is significant opposition to Iranian influence in Iraq as the ongoing street protests and associated violence can testify to, but I cannot begin to tell you how notable this guy is. Its like killing the head of the KGB or CIA, the guy is that significant possibly more so as he is/was a very hands on bloke.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Yokes said:

    Yokes said:

    Some kind of major sweep on leaders of Iraqi shi'te militias, effectively run by Soleimani also appears to be underway. This is a major attempt to throttle Iranian influence, which is massive, in the country.

    That should work, provided the Iranians don't come up with a clever counterstrategy like promoting somebody else, thus replacing the assassinated leader with a new leader
    There is significant opposition to Iranian influence in Iraq as the ongoing street protests and associated violence can testify to, but I cannot begin to tell you how notable this guy is. Its like killing the head of the KGB or CIA, the guy is that significant possibly more so as he is/was a very hands on bloke.
    Al Jazeera take:

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/01/iraq-3-katyusha-rockets-fired-baghdad-airport-200102232817666.html
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,335

    Yokes said:

    Yokes said:

    Some kind of major sweep on leaders of Iraqi shi'te militias, effectively run by Soleimani also appears to be underway. This is a major attempt to throttle Iranian influence, which is massive, in the country.

    That should work, provided the Iranians don't come up with a clever counterstrategy like promoting somebody else, thus replacing the assassinated leader with a new leader
    There is significant opposition to Iranian influence in Iraq as the ongoing street protests and associated violence can testify to, but I cannot begin to tell you how notable this guy is. Its like killing the head of the KGB or CIA, the guy is that significant possibly more so as he is/was a very hands on bloke.
    Al Jazeera take:

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/01/iraq-3-katyusha-rockets-fired-baghdad-airport-200102232817666.html
    Drone strike by all acounts and exceptionally accurate. The amount of US airlift into the region over the last 24-48 hours is way above normal operations so the US is certainly working on the assumption that there will be trouble.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Yokes said:

    Some kind of major sweep on leaders of Iraqi shi'te militias, effectively run by Soleimani also appears to be underway. This is a major attempt to throttle Iranian influence, which is massive, in the country.

    That should work, provided the Iranians don't come up with a clever counterstrategy like promoting somebody else, thus replacing the assassinated leader with a new leader
    “Put it this way. Other than the Supreme Leader Khamenei and maybe the president, he looms larger in Iran than almost any other figure,” said Zakaria. “He is regarded as personally incredibly brave. The troops love him, and he has been the kind of mastermind of Iran’s policies in Syria, in Iraq. So when General Petraeus was fighting the Iraq war, the surge, I remember him telling me that Soleimani was his principle antagonist.

    https://www.rawstory.com/2020/01/qasem-soleimani-is-a-revered-figure-in-iran-and-his-death-will-force-the-country-to-respond-fareed-zakaria/
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited January 2020
    General Qasem Soleimani, the head of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards' elite Quds Force, has been killed by US forces in Iraq.
    The Pentagon confirmed he was killed "at the direction of the president".


    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-50979463

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1212924762827046918?s=20
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Top Twitter trends in London:

    1) Iran
    2) World War 3
    3) Soleimani
    4) Baghdad

    https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1212934867865997312?s=20
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    FF43 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    If you play office politics, you will be discovered and immediately binned.


    Is the quote of a man who is an idiot. The point of office politics is you don't detect it. It is done in secret.

    This is the kind of empty platitude that some says to look tough and on the ball but there is absolutely zero to back it up.

    It's also fundamentally bullshit. Almost everyone I know who's successfully climbed the greasy poll, whether at Goldman or anywhere else, has done it by assiduously courting favour with the right people.

    That's office politics.
    I think Cummings sees himself as the "right person" that the hire needs to assiduously court favour with and his definition of "playing office politics" leading to a binning is those that don't court his favour.
    Well exactly. That passage of his at least is either delusional or dishonest.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    Yokes said:

    Yokes said:

    Some kind of major sweep on leaders of Iraqi shi'te militias, effectively run by Soleimani also appears to be underway. This is a major attempt to throttle Iranian influence, which is massive, in the country.

    That should work, provided the Iranians don't come up with a clever counterstrategy like promoting somebody else, thus replacing the assassinated leader with a new leader
    There is significant opposition to Iranian influence in Iraq as the ongoing street protests and associated violence can testify to, but I cannot begin to tell you how notable this guy is. Its like killing the head of the KGB or CIA, the guy is that significant possibly more so as he is/was a very hands on bloke.
    I'd heard of him before, which given general ignorance of the region says something about his profile.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    TGOHF666 said:

    viewcode said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    viewcode said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    ...Apart from deliver Brexit and a stonking majority what’s he ever done ?....

    Who do you think is running the country: Cummings or Boris? Genuine question.

    Boris - if DC doesn’t cut the mustard he is out. But his leash is currently pretty long.

    The civil service needs a kick up the Backside - welcome it.
    I'm not sure they do.
    Every organisation in the world needs to continually update itself.

    Spoiler - nobody who isn’t a civil servant or is shagging a civil servant will care two hoots for any teeth gnashing - probably they will enjoy it.
    Updates need to be considered, even radical swift ones, not at the whim of ideologues pretending a rational basis for their ideological updates.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    TGOHF666 said:

    You guys are right to doubt Cummings.

    Apart from deliver Brexit and a stonking majority what’s he ever done ?

    But yeah how dare he try and make things better..

    His success in certain areas- and I thought this chap Levido was supposed to be mastermind of the majority- doesnt mean people should think he will be a success in a very different one, or more to the point that they should want him to succeed in it depending on what his aims are.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    If you play office politics, you will be discovered and immediately binned.


    Is the quote of a man who is an idiot. The point of office politics is you don't detect it. It is done in secret.

    This is the kind of empty platitude that some says to look tough and on the ball but there is absolutely zero to back it up.

    It's also fundamentally bullshit. Almost everyone I know who's successfully climbed the greasy poll, whether at Goldman or anywhere else, has done it by assiduously courting favour with the right people.

    That's office politics.
    That's not really my experience, FWIW. Neither where I've been successful in industry and the voluntary sector, nor where I've seen others who were. There's some of that in politics, of course, but the key thing political leaders look for is loyalty followed by competence. They mostly aren't that interested in flattery, Trump being an obvious exception.
    I don't see how that contradicts the point - loyalty to him personally or his aims over other factors would be a way of courting his favour, it doesnt have to mean obsequiousness. Lack of interest in obvious flattery hardly denotes a lack of office politics - seems pretty naive to believe that if someone shuns Trump style vanity then their favour cannot be won through other means.

    Political leaders in particular get sucked up to and praised in more subtle ways all the time.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    dodrade said:

    On Topic

    I think Nandy has a chance.

    Even though she is well to the right of the Membership her Brexit views are attractive to me.

    I would say there is a real chance i could vote for her depending on what she says in the Campaign about other non Brexit issues.

    If she hadn't been part of the Chicken Coup she would definitely have my vote as it is i guess there is a circa 50% chance I will vote for her.

    Nandy was always a remainer, stringing along her leave supporting constituents but voting against May's deal three times.
    Agreed. I'm far from convinced she means the things she says as unlike others in parliament she didnt take action to back up her words.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    viewcode said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    viewcode said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    viewcode said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    ...Apart from deliver Brexit and a stonking majority what’s he ever done ?....

    Who do you think is running the country: Cummings or Boris? Genuine question.

    Boris - if DC doesn’t cut the mustard he is out. But his leash is currently pretty long.

    The civil service needs a kick up the Backside - welcome it.
    I'm not sure they do.
    Every organisation in the world needs to continually update itself.

    Spoiler - nobody who isn’t a civil servant or is shagging a civil servant will care two hoots for any teeth gnashing - probably they will enjoy it.
    I care. And I'm not a civil servant nor am I shagging one. I don't get off on causing hardship to people I don't like.
    I'm not even concerned about the hardship, but I also have an aversion to gurus seeking to stir things up as an end in itself. Oh sure they always say it's for a good reason and theres usually a sluggish environment that does indeed need updating, but how many of these types are hammers in search of a nail rather than genuinely persuadable to methods or directions they dont already support?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153

    Yokes said:

    Some kind of major sweep on leaders of Iraqi shi'te militias, effectively run by Soleimani also appears to be underway. This is a major attempt to throttle Iranian influence, which is massive, in the country.

    That should work, provided the Iranians don't come up with a clever counterstrategy like promoting somebody else, thus replacing the assassinated leader with a new leader
    Some people are difficult to replace in effectiveness.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    kle4 said:

    Yokes said:

    Some kind of major sweep on leaders of Iraqi shi'te militias, effectively run by Soleimani also appears to be underway. This is a major attempt to throttle Iranian influence, which is massive, in the country.

    That should work, provided the Iranians don't come up with a clever counterstrategy like promoting somebody else, thus replacing the assassinated leader with a new leader
    Some people are difficult to replace in effectiveness.
    Most of the Commentators I have read have been saying it’s difficult to underestimate the importance of this - and Iranian retaliatory action is guaranteed.
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    If it becomes a shooting war sell Starmer, Biden and Trump, buy Lavery and Sanders.
    The Anti-War guys are going to be politically energised.

    Also beware a usual failure of Pentagon plans, here is a war game from 2004:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2004/12/will-iran-be-next/303599/

    https://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/coma/images/issues/200412/2004-12-fallows-iran.pdf

    Their plan in 2004 was to have 3 divisions and a brigade to drive 1000 miles over many tall mountain ranges, siege Tehran and get out all in 5 days, brought to you by the same people who planned the Iraq War.

    Of course the Civilian leaders involved were appalled by the such terrible planning:

    "Companies deciding which kind of toothpaste to market have much more rigorous, established decision-making processes to refer to than the most senior officials of the U.S. government deciding whether or not to go to war"
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    Wag the Dog:
    https://twitter.com/EricColumbus/status/1212929154460590080

    Now the political question is how many american soldiers will have to die for Trump to lose re-election ?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    How would Sir Humphrey Appleby deal with Cummings?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited January 2020
    speedy2 said:

    If it becomes a shooting war sell Starmer, Biden and Trump, buy Lavery and Sanders.
    The Anti-War guys are going to be politically energised.

    Also beware a usual failure of Pentagon plans, here is a war game from 2004:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2004/12/will-iran-be-next/303599/

    https://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/coma/images/issues/200412/2004-12-fallows-iran.pdf

    Their plan in 2004 was to have 3 divisions and a brigade to drive 1000 miles over many tall mountain ranges, siege Tehran and get out all in 5 days, brought to you by the same people who planned the Iraq War.

    Of course the Civilian leaders involved were appalled by the such terrible planning:

    "Companies deciding which kind of toothpaste to market have much more rigorous, established decision-making processes to refer to than the most senior officials of the U.S. government deciding whether or not to go to war"

    Starmer's been an opponent of the Iraq war since 2003. You're right that more Americans getting killed in Iraq it might make voters more receptive to a Sanders kind of agenda, though.
  • dodrade said:

    On Topic

    I think Nandy has a chance.

    Even though she is well to the right of the Membership her Brexit views are attractive to me.

    I would say there is a real chance i could vote for her depending on what she says in the Campaign about other non Brexit issues.

    If she hadn't been part of the Chicken Coup she would definitely have my vote as it is i guess there is a circa 50% chance I will vote for her.

    Nandy was always a remainer, stringing along her leave supporting constituents but voting against May's deal three times.
    Boris voted against May's deal. Is he a Remainer too?
  • Great to see Henry G active again on PB.com ... and quite apart from the Next Leader Contest, just in time for his brilliant tipping on the Australian Open Tennis.
    He's absolutely right of course as regards the number of wannabe leaders who won't even make it onto the ballot paper (three maximum I would guess) and on this basis Lisa Nandy looks good value for money, although the smart money seems to be piling onto Keir Starmer. Maybe it's just me but RL-B looks an awful choice. Personally I've preferred backing Starmer over recent months to be the next PM at around 20/1-25/1. Obviously his price has shortened considerably since 12 Dec and he's currently best priced at 12/1 with bet365 (only half that price with Laddies), for those prepared prepared to wait that long.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042

    How would Sir Humphrey Appleby deal with Cummings?

    Some kind of trick to make him think he had won while actually ensuring his reforms only applied to small teams or were easily reversible. If he could delay by getting it to be 'trialled' on SpAds only I imagine he would.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,470

    speedy2 said:

    If it becomes a shooting war sell Starmer, Biden and Trump, buy Lavery and Sanders.
    The Anti-War guys are going to be politically energised.

    Also beware a usual failure of Pentagon plans, here is a war game from 2004:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2004/12/will-iran-be-next/303599/

    https://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/coma/images/issues/200412/2004-12-fallows-iran.pdf

    Their plan in 2004 was to have 3 divisions and a brigade to drive 1000 miles over many tall mountain ranges, siege Tehran and get out all in 5 days, brought to you by the same people who planned the Iraq War.

    Of course the Civilian leaders involved were appalled by the such terrible planning:

    "Companies deciding which kind of toothpaste to market have much more rigorous, established decision-making processes to refer to than the most senior officials of the U.S. government deciding whether or not to go to war"

    Starmer's been an opponent of the Iraq war since 2003. You're right that more Americans getting killed in Iraq it might make voters more receptive to a Sanders kind of agenda, though.
    Isn't America Great Again though, when it's troops go swaggering through the world killing brown people?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    I would say 'good morning' but with Trump deciding to launch an open war with Iran I'm not sure 'good' is the right word.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    edited January 2020

    speedy2 said:

    If it becomes a shooting war sell Starmer, Biden and Trump, buy Lavery and Sanders.
    The Anti-War guys are going to be politically energised.

    Also beware a usual failure of Pentagon plans, here is a war game from 2004:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2004/12/will-iran-be-next/303599/

    https://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/coma/images/issues/200412/2004-12-fallows-iran.pdf

    Their plan in 2004 was to have 3 divisions and a brigade to drive 1000 miles over many tall mountain ranges, siege Tehran and get out all in 5 days, brought to you by the same people who planned the Iraq War.

    Of course the Civilian leaders involved were appalled by the such terrible planning:

    "Companies deciding which kind of toothpaste to market have much more rigorous, established decision-making processes to refer to than the most senior officials of the U.S. government deciding whether or not to go to war"

    Starmer's been an opponent of the Iraq war since 2003. You're right that more Americans getting killed in Iraq it might make voters more receptive to a Sanders kind of agenda, though.
    Isn't America Great Again though, when it's troops go swaggering through the world killing brown people?
    So you think Trump is deliberately killing/targeting "brown people". What a load of shite.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,814
    Boris would do well to stay out of any US escalation with Iran. A military intervention is the last thing he needs at this stage in his premiership.

    Although will the lure of a Trump trade deal be a siren call?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    speedy2 said:

    If it becomes a shooting war sell Starmer, Biden and Trump, buy Lavery and Sanders.
    The Anti-War guys are going to be politically energised.

    Also beware a usual failure of Pentagon plans, here is a war game from 2004:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2004/12/will-iran-be-next/303599/

    https://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/coma/images/issues/200412/2004-12-fallows-iran.pdf

    Their plan in 2004 was to have 3 divisions and a brigade to drive 1000 miles over many tall mountain ranges, siege Tehran and get out all in 5 days, brought to you by the same people who planned the Iraq War.

    Of course the Civilian leaders involved were appalled by the such terrible planning:

    "Companies deciding which kind of toothpaste to market have much more rigorous, established decision-making processes to refer to than the most senior officials of the U.S. government deciding whether or not to go to war"

    Starmer's been an opponent of the Iraq war since 2003.
    The war, or its legality?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/mar/17/foreignpolicy.iraq1
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,470

    speedy2 said:

    If it becomes a shooting war sell Starmer, Biden and Trump, buy Lavery and Sanders.
    The Anti-War guys are going to be politically energised.

    Also beware a usual failure of Pentagon plans, here is a war game from 2004:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2004/12/will-iran-be-next/303599/

    https://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/coma/images/issues/200412/2004-12-fallows-iran.pdf

    Their plan in 2004 was to have 3 divisions and a brigade to drive 1000 miles over many tall mountain ranges, siege Tehran and get out all in 5 days, brought to you by the same people who planned the Iraq War.

    Of course the Civilian leaders involved were appalled by the such terrible planning:

    "Companies deciding which kind of toothpaste to market have much more rigorous, established decision-making processes to refer to than the most senior officials of the U.S. government deciding whether or not to go to war"

    Starmer's been an opponent of the Iraq war since 2003. You're right that more Americans getting killed in Iraq it might make voters more receptive to a Sanders kind of agenda, though.
    Isn't America Great Again though, when it's troops go swaggering through the world killing brown people?
    So you think Trump is deliberately killing/targeting "brown people". What a load of shite.
    Well, how would you describe his policy?
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981

    speedy2 said:

    If it becomes a shooting war sell Starmer, Biden and Trump, buy Lavery and Sanders.
    The Anti-War guys are going to be politically energised.

    Also beware a usual failure of Pentagon plans, here is a war game from 2004:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2004/12/will-iran-be-next/303599/

    https://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/coma/images/issues/200412/2004-12-fallows-iran.pdf

    Their plan in 2004 was to have 3 divisions and a brigade to drive 1000 miles over many tall mountain ranges, siege Tehran and get out all in 5 days, brought to you by the same people who planned the Iraq War.

    Of course the Civilian leaders involved were appalled by the such terrible planning:

    "Companies deciding which kind of toothpaste to market have much more rigorous, established decision-making processes to refer to than the most senior officials of the U.S. government deciding whether or not to go to war"

    Starmer's been an opponent of the Iraq war since 2003. You're right that more Americans getting killed in Iraq it might make voters more receptive to a Sanders kind of agenda, though.
    Isn't America Great Again though, when it's troops go swaggering through the world killing brown people?
    So you think Trump is deliberately killing/targeting "brown people". What a load of shite.
    Well, how would you describe his policy?
    Lots of isolated decisions without strategy.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    https://www.twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1212932812485136385
    What's especially puzzling however is that this comes so soon after Trump and Putin's lovein. Soleimani was one of Putin's friends in the regime, the man tipped as Putin's choice for next President of Iran and a key figure in Putin's Syria strategy.

    So either Putin will be ready to explode or - just possibly - we are seeing Trump used, wittingly or otherwise, as part of a power struggle. With Putin I suppose you never quite know.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    speedy2 said:

    If it becomes a shooting war sell Starmer, Biden and Trump, buy Lavery and Sanders.
    The Anti-War guys are going to be politically energised.

    Also beware a usual failure of Pentagon plans, here is a war game from 2004:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2004/12/will-iran-be-next/303599/

    https://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/coma/images/issues/200412/2004-12-fallows-iran.pdf

    Their plan in 2004 was to have 3 divisions and a brigade to drive 1000 miles over many tall mountain ranges, siege Tehran and get out all in 5 days, brought to you by the same people who planned the Iraq War.

    Of course the Civilian leaders involved were appalled by the such terrible planning:

    "Companies deciding which kind of toothpaste to market have much more rigorous, established decision-making processes to refer to than the most senior officials of the U.S. government deciding whether or not to go to war"

    Starmer's been an opponent of the Iraq war since 2003. You're right that more Americans getting killed in Iraq it might make voters more receptive to a Sanders kind of agenda, though.
    Isn't America Great Again though, when it's troops go swaggering through the world killing brown people?
    I think this individual’s record was orders of magnitude more important than the colour of his skin.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Boris would do well to stay out of any US escalation with Iran. A military intervention is the last thing he needs at this stage in his premiership.

    Although will the lure of a Trump trade deal be a siren call?

    I trust he extends to our noble American allies every assistance, short of actual help.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited January 2020

    speedy2 said:

    If it becomes a shooting war sell Starmer, Biden and Trump, buy Lavery and Sanders.
    The Anti-War guys are going to be politically energised.

    Also beware a usual failure of Pentagon plans, here is a war game from 2004:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2004/12/will-iran-be-next/303599/

    https://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/coma/images/issues/200412/2004-12-fallows-iran.pdf

    Their plan in 2004 was to have 3 divisions and a brigade to drive 1000 miles over many tall mountain ranges, siege Tehran and get out all in 5 days, brought to you by the same people who planned the Iraq War.

    Of course the Civilian leaders involved were appalled by the such terrible planning:

    "Companies deciding which kind of toothpaste to market have much more rigorous, established decision-making processes to refer to than the most senior officials of the U.S. government deciding whether or not to go to war"

    Starmer's been an opponent of the Iraq war since 2003.
    The war, or its legality?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/mar/17/foreignpolicy.iraq1
    He then acted explicitly for five anti-Iraq war protestors in 2006.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4743464.stm
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,814
    ydoethur said:

    https://www.twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1212932812485136385
    What's especially puzzling however is that this comes so soon after Trump and Putin's lovein. Soleimani was one of Putin's friends in the regime, the man tipped as Putin's choice for next President of Iran and a key figure in Putin's Syria strategy.

    So either Putin will be ready to explode or - just possibly - we are seeing Trump used, wittingly or otherwise, as part of a power struggle. With Putin I suppose you never quite know.

    Interestingly we have not, as yet, had an official Russian response, as far as I can tell.

  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729

    speedy2 said:

    If it becomes a shooting war sell Starmer, Biden and Trump, buy Lavery and Sanders.
    The Anti-War guys are going to be politically energised.

    Also beware a usual failure of Pentagon plans, here is a war game from 2004:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2004/12/will-iran-be-next/303599/

    https://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/coma/images/issues/200412/2004-12-fallows-iran.pdf

    Their plan in 2004 was to have 3 divisions and a brigade to drive 1000 miles over many tall mountain ranges, siege Tehran and get out all in 5 days, brought to you by the same people who planned the Iraq War.

    Of course the Civilian leaders involved were appalled by the such terrible planning:

    "Companies deciding which kind of toothpaste to market have much more rigorous, established decision-making processes to refer to than the most senior officials of the U.S. government deciding whether or not to go to war"

    Starmer's been an opponent of the Iraq war since 2003. You're right that more Americans getting killed in Iraq it might make voters more receptive to a Sanders kind of agenda, though.
    Isn't America Great Again though, when it's troops go swaggering through the world killing brown people?
    So you think Trump is deliberately killing/targeting "brown people". What a load of shite.
    Well, how would you describe his policy?
    Why don't you try and describe it.. sensibly... without the emotive racist element
  • On topic, I hope Henry is right. Nandy would be my first choice. However, I am not sure he is. You need 5% of the overall membership of affiliates and unions combined to get nominated. When you think of the union memberships that basically means you need a big union to support you. I cannot see Nandy getting that.
This discussion has been closed.