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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The voting group that looks set to give Johnson his majority –

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  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,605
    nico67 said:

    A good Kantar poll for the Tories and a big relief for the Lib Dems after the Survation horror show which had them at just 11%.

    I's prefer LDs on 11% as long as its 40% in our target seats and 5% in our many non-target seats. I wouldn't want 15% in our non-target seats at the expense of Labour, letting the Tories come through the middle of a split remain vote.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405

    Stocky said:

    Sandpit said:

    Stocky said:

    Fenster said:

    Does anybody here still genuinely think Labour can win enough seats to force a hung parliament?

    And at what percentage do you rate the possibility of a hung parliament?

    Absolutely. A hung parliament always seemed the most likely outcome to me. This time in 2017 they were erecting giant effigies of Theresa on the cliffs of Dover. The only thing that's changed since then is Theresa being replaced with Boris. What can he do that she couldn't?
    Give Fenster a percentage then. I said 45% chance.
    I'd say there's a 98% chance of a hung parliament.
    Well Betfair will give you 3.25 on NOM. Fill yer boots.
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/event/28265958/market?marketId=1.136297311
    Arguably, an even better bet would be to look at the "Next Government" market with Betfair. You can get 16.5 on Tory Minority and 8.6 on Labour Minority.
    Goodness knows why it is thought that a Lab minority is more likely than a Tory minority.
    Bigger landing strip for that to occur.
    Tory minority can only really exist with DUP and/or Lib Dem abstentions.
    Lab minority can exist with SNP+PC+Green support and Lib Dem support and/or abstentions.
    The bell curve of seat distributions probably has any exact seat combo more likely within Tory minority but collectively Lab minority is much more likely than Tory minority.
    Surely Tory Minority exists unless something or someone else gets a majority or can create a majority. I would want to read the terms of the bet very clearly.

    For another election to occur Parliament must be sworn in and enough things done to the point that a vote for a new election occurs. That requires a Government to be in place even if there is no-one with command of the house.
  • Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    Reading East: Take a look at oddschecker. Can get Evens Labour with Ladbrokes and 15/8 Tories with Betfair Sportsbook.
    I`m already big on Lab in that constituency at 15/8 and 2/1 so won`t bet more, but there is considerable disparity of pricing here.
    Anyone have any insight?

    The 2017 9.9% swing to Labour was huge. Scope for that to unwind just as decisively?
    I think fair chance of a Tory gain.
    Swings like that are often demographically driven and likely to continue
    In two years? Nah.....
    I`m still picking up the relative arbitrage, but hitting bookie limits now (ridiculously small).
    Overall, in Reading East I`m £5 up if Tories win and £130 up if Lab win.
    If LibDems win I`m in trouble with the wife.
    Reading East is definitely one of those seats where the student surge made the difference. The Tories have a solid base of around 35-40% in Caversham and Woodley but Lab should win if student turnout is similar to last time. Reading uni breaks up on the 13th so Lab should be fine.
  • Anyone else planning on being up for Skinner? The trouble is that in deference to the old boy, who's pushing 88 years of age, I suspect they'll hold over the Bolsover count until the Friday morning.

    If the exit poll shows Con on 322 or over, I'll be up till the dawn :smile:
  • Anyone else planning on being up for Skinner? The trouble is that in deference to the old boy, who's pushing 88 years of age, I suspect they'll hold over the Bolsover count until the Friday morning.

    I would love to be "up for Bolsover"
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Barnesian said:

    nico67 said:

    A good Kantar poll for the Tories and a big relief for the Lib Dems after the Survation horror show which had them at just 11%.

    I's prefer LDs on 11% as long as its 40% in our target seats and 5% in our many non-target seats. I wouldn't want 15% in our non-target seats at the expense of Labour, letting the Tories come through the middle of a split remain vote.
    I don't know why you'd be worried. Your model has the Lib Dems on 26 seats
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Or a gargantuan Tory majority that would make Baldwin blush.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    Anyone else planning on being up for Skinner? The trouble is that in deference to the old boy, who's pushing 88 years of age, I suspect they'll hold over the Bolsover count until the Friday morning.

    I would love to be "up for Bolsover"
    It declared at 4.17am in 2017. Old people tend to wake up early so he'll be fine.
  • RobD said:

    Or a gargantuan Tory majority that would make Baldwin blush.
    Would hopefully be a gargantuan wake up call for Labour.
    It would be a delicious irony if Jeremy Corbyn is responsible for calling time on the career of MPs like Skinner.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,236
    alb1on said:

    I suspect he is a racist at heart. It is difficult to grow up in a family where the father was arrested at a KKK rally and was a Mafia associate (and the Mafia are very racist) without it rubbing off.

    Yes, he probably is racist. Also a misogynist. In fact for me that is what comes over clearer than just about anything else. As an aside I'll be seeing his stupid massive noisy 'copter later. It passes my place when it leaves Regents Park. I'll give it the finger on behalf of all.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    This is really bad for Labour. A lot of their increase in the polls is coming from London.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/JoeMurphyLondon/status/1201820430669144065
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    London Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 47% (+8)
    CON: 30% (+1)
    LIB: 15% (-4)
    GRN: 4% (-1)
    BRX: 3% (-3)

    YouGov 28 Nov- 2 Dec
    Changes w October/November
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,605
    Brom said:

    Barnesian said:

    nico67 said:

    A good Kantar poll for the Tories and a big relief for the Lib Dems after the Survation horror show which had them at just 11%.

    I's prefer LDs on 11% as long as its 40% in our target seats and 5% in our many non-target seats. I wouldn't want 15% in our non-target seats at the expense of Labour, letting the Tories come through the middle of a split remain vote.
    I don't know why you'd be worried. Your model has the Lib Dems on 26 seats
    It assumes efficient and widespread tactical voting.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    Fenster said:

    Does anybody here still genuinely think Labour can win enough seats to force a hung parliament?

    And at what percentage do you rate the possibility of a hung parliament?

    Absolutely. A hung parliament always seemed the most likely outcome to me. This time in 2017 they were erecting giant effigies of Theresa on the cliffs of Dover. The only thing that's changed since then is Theresa being replaced with Boris. What can he do that she couldn't?

    Anyone else planning on being up for Skinner? The trouble is that in deference to the old boy, who's pushing 88 years of age, I suspect they'll hold over the Bolsover count until the Friday morning.

    When people equate age and experience I look to pointless bedblockers such as him. Genuinely valueless.
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329

    Do not forget that the majority of Labour voters, even in Leave seats, voted to Remain. And Labour is gaining them back + Labour Leavers (albeit not enough yet). They are up above 50% of Labour Leavers and it is still going up.
    I think a lot of minds will be checked over the next week.

    I just don’t understand this mindset. Yesterday we had a breakdown that 45% or remainers will vote Labour and 70% or leavers will vote Tory. In somewhere like Bolsover which voted 70% for leave that give the Tories a basis of around 49% and Labour 15%. I understand this is not a direct translation in every seat but even if all the remainers in that seat go Labour and none Tory then that only gets them to 30%.

    The problem is not the Labour leavers in Labour seats, it is the coalescence of support around the Tory of all other leave voters.
  • London Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 47% (+8)
    CON: 30% (+1)
    LIB: 15% (-4)
    GRN: 4% (-1)
    BRX: 3% (-3)

    YouGov 28 Nov- 2 Dec
    Changes w October/November

    The liberals won't be winning many seats in london on those figures.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    nunu2 said:

    This is really bad for Labour. A lot of their increase in the polls is coming from London.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/JoeMurphyLondon/status/1201820430669144065

    Yes, it's unusual a poll where Labour go up is bad news for them but it adds to the feeling they're stacking up votes where they don't need them. Putney, Chipping Barnet, Hendon and possibly Chingford, Harrow East or Cities could be in play but they might gain 3 or 4 seats here at the expense of 40 or 50 north of the Watford Gap.
  • nunu2 said:

    This is really bad for Labour. A lot of their increase in the polls is coming from London.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/JoeMurphyLondon/status/1201820430669144065

    If Labour Is piling up votes in London then that surely increases the chances of a Tory landslide
  • Barnesian said:

    Brom said:

    Barnesian said:

    nico67 said:

    A good Kantar poll for the Tories and a big relief for the Lib Dems after the Survation horror show which had them at just 11%.

    I's prefer LDs on 11% as long as its 40% in our target seats and 5% in our many non-target seats. I wouldn't want 15% in our non-target seats at the expense of Labour, letting the Tories come through the middle of a split remain vote.
    I don't know why you'd be worried. Your model has the Lib Dems on 26 seats
    It assumes efficient and widespread tactical voting.
    Do you still expect that given what's happened this campaign?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,213

    London Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 47% (+8)
    CON: 30% (+1)
    LIB: 15% (-4)
    GRN: 4% (-1)
    BRX: 3% (-3)

    YouGov 28 Nov- 2 Dec
    Changes w October/November

    2.2% swing to the Tories in London.
    4.65 Con -> LD swing too.

    Implies Richmond Park goes to the Lib Dems; Kensington to the Tories.
    Battersea on a knife edge.
  • London Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 47% (+8)
    CON: 30% (+1)
    LIB: 15% (-4)
    GRN: 4% (-1)
    BRX: 3% (-3)

    YouGov 28 Nov- 2 Dec
    Changes w October/November

    Londoners want free stuff....
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    kjohnw1 said:

    nunu2 said:

    This is really bad for Labour. A lot of their increase in the polls is coming from London.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/JoeMurphyLondon/status/1201820430669144065

    If Labour Is piling up votes in London then that surely increases the chances of a Tory landslide
    Yes. That is what I said.
  • The real election winner for either of the main parties would be the promise of a massive reboot of council house building. This is probably the only thing that would re-energise the left behind. Sadly both major parties are in hock to the big housebuilders so it isn’t going to happen.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Pulpstar said:

    London Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 47% (+8)
    CON: 30% (+1)
    LIB: 15% (-4)
    GRN: 4% (-1)
    BRX: 3% (-3)

    YouGov 28 Nov- 2 Dec
    Changes w October/November

    2.2% swing to the Tories in London.
    4.65 Con -> LD swing too.

    Implies Richmond Park goes to the Lib Dems; Kensington to the Tories.
    Battersea on a knife edge.
    Surprised to read that they managed 55% in London in 2017.
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329
    RobD said:

    This makes me tempted to vote for Corbyn, but then I think he's a Tory melt, why only a third, if he was true Labour in the mould of Attlee then rail travel should be free at the point of use.

    https://twitter.com/politicshome/status/1201381654180352000

    In a move the party said would save the average commuter more than £1,000 a year, the Labour leader vowed to would bring in the 33% reduction for regular fares across England

    Doesn't the average commuter drive to work? *innocent face*
    I wonder if that saving is based on them working 5 days a week or 4
  • Barnesian said:

    nico67 said:

    A good Kantar poll for the Tories and a big relief for the Lib Dems after the Survation horror show which had them at just 11%.

    I's prefer LDs on 11% as long as its 40% in our target seats and 5% in our many non-target seats. I wouldn't want 15% in our non-target seats at the expense of Labour, letting the Tories come through the middle of a split remain vote.
    Hi Barnesian,

    I was looking at your LD predictions the other night but it was too late to post.

    Unfortunately I think you are on the wrong track vs. the Yougov MRP. You seems to be sticking to UNS quite strongly and perhaps not accounting for Brexit/Remain enough. The evidence I would put forward for this is:

    1) The constituency polls tie in quite well with the Yougov MRP. If the LDs are consistently getting greater than average swings in Remain seats in London and the SE then they must be getting lower swings or going backwards elsewhere. The Yougov MRP had the LDs going backwards in North Devon, for example

    2) If you look at the Conservative volunteer website, the seats that the Cons seem to be focusing on defending vs. the LDs are St Albans, South Cambs, Finchley, Richmond Pk, Lewes and Totnes which all voted remain. They are also heavily targeting leave voting Carshalton, which presumably on your model is out of sight.

    Best Wishes

    Gareth
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,213
    Another way to look at London is that it is very remain. Indicates Labour is picking up with remainers more so than leavers now.
  • Actually Labour are down 8% in London since GE2017.

    So this poll is in line with the national polls.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    Labour are up 8% in London but Torys still have a 9% lead nationally. So where is the tory lead coming from.....the north and Midlands is the answer.
  • Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    Reading East: Take a look at oddschecker. Can get Evens Labour with Ladbrokes and 15/8 Tories with Betfair Sportsbook.
    I`m already big on Lab in that constituency at 15/8 and 2/1 so won`t bet more, but there is considerable disparity of pricing here.
    Anyone have any insight?

    The 2017 9.9% swing to Labour was huge. Scope for that to unwind just as decisively?
    I think fair chance of a Tory gain.
    Swings like that are often demographically driven and likely to continue
    In two years? Nah.....
    I`m still picking up the relative arbitrage, but hitting bookie limits now (ridiculously small).
    Overall, in Reading East I`m £5 up if Tories win and £130 up if Lab win.
    If LibDems win I`m in trouble with the wife.
    Reading East is definitely one of those seats where the student surge made the difference. The Tories have a solid base of around 35-40% in Caversham and Woodley but Lab should win if student turnout is similar to last time. Reading uni breaks up on the 13th so Lab should be fine.

    It may be instructive to have a list of when universities break up to inform on likelihood of numbers going Labour
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    matt said:

    Fenster said:

    Does anybody here still genuinely think Labour can win enough seats to force a hung parliament?

    And at what percentage do you rate the possibility of a hung parliament?

    Absolutely. A hung parliament always seemed the most likely outcome to me. This time in 2017 they were erecting giant effigies of Theresa on the cliffs of Dover. The only thing that's changed since then is Theresa being replaced with Boris. What can he do that she couldn't?

    Anyone else planning on being up for Skinner? The trouble is that in deference to the old boy, who's pushing 88 years of age, I suspect they'll hold over the Bolsover count until the Friday morning.

    When people equate age and experience I look to pointless bedblockers such as him. Genuinely valueless.
    Compare and contrast the 49 years of him vs Clarke in parliament. Has the ridiculous old twat ever raised his constituency or served in any post in that time or is it just a series of crap jibes at black rod? He's a disgrace to public service.
  • London Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 47% (+8)
    CON: 30% (+1)
    LIB: 15% (-4)
    GRN: 4% (-1)
    BRX: 3% (-3)

    YouGov 28 Nov- 2 Dec
    Changes w October/November

    Londoners want free stuff....
    Londoners know Johnson's record in London. Non-Londoners should view this as a negative job reference from a previous employer. You have been warned...
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,444

    London Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 47% (+8)
    CON: 30% (+1)
    LIB: 15% (-4)
    GRN: 4% (-1)
    BRX: 3% (-3)

    YouGov 28 Nov- 2 Dec
    Changes w October/November

    The liberals won't be winning many seats in london on those figures.
    It's a 4.5% swing from Tory to Liberal compared to GE2017.
  • London Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 47% (+8)
    CON: 30% (+1)
    LIB: 15% (-4)
    GRN: 4% (-1)
    BRX: 3% (-3)

    YouGov 28 Nov- 2 Dec
    Changes w October/November

    The liberals won't be winning many seats in london on those figures.
    Time for some more letters from OGH?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    The You Gov London poll shows exactly the same lead as the same one done before the last election in 2017.

    They lead then by 17 points and on Election Day they increased that to 21 points .
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,236

    Gordon Brown destroyed many pension funds and he wasn't anywhere near as dangerous as the Marxists in charge of Labour now.

    He removed a tax break if that's what you mean. There's no god given right to tax breaks - private schools please note.
  • Jeremy Corbyn FINALLY says sorry for anti-Semitism in the Labour Party but insists he has 'dealt with it'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7750669/Jeremy-Corbyn-FINALLY-says-sorry-Labour-anti-Semitism-insists-dealt-it.html
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Actually Labour are down 8% in London since GE2017.

    So this poll is in line with the national polls.

    Eagles riding the last UNS bus out of town
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    Actually Labour are down 8% in London since GE2017.

    So this poll is in line with the national polls.

    I think they’ve gained more in London over the last month than in the country.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533



    Compare and contrast the 49 years of him vs Clarke in parliament. Has the ridiculous old twat ever raised his constituency or served in any post in that time or is it just a series of crap jibes at black rod? He's a disgrace to public service.

    There are a LOT of people who feel that Skinner is one of the very few MPs who they can genuinely identify with, by contrast with the vaguely amicable middle-class blur which most MPs (including me when I was there) fade into.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,478


    It may be instructive to have a list of when universities break up to inform on likelihood of numbers going Labour

    Anecdotal alert - not just dependent on when the Uni breaks up. At Bath its on the 13th, but many students will be gone earlier if they have little or no teaching on the wed, thur or Friday, as confirmed by my third year tutees.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,444

    This makes me tempted to vote for Corbyn, but then I think he's a Tory melt, why only a third, if he was true Labour in the mould of Attlee then rail travel should be free at the point of use.

    https://twitter.com/politicshome/status/1201381654180352000

    It's exactly stuff like this which should make you ultra wary of nationalisation. They're not even in power and any pretense that these industries wont be just the play thing of political masters is thrown out the window. If you sacrifice revenue in this way you have to take it from elsewhere. After the announcements and the political applause the interest will move elsewhere and the railways would have lost a chunk of income.
    So you're saying that the private profits are a fee we pay because we aren't grown-up enough to make rational collective choices. A rather depressing conclusion.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Applying an incredibly loose mathematical principle, national yougov polling has seen Lab climb 2 points since November 5th yet in London they have climbed 4 times as much (8 points) over the same period, suggesting any improvement in other parts of the country could be far more modest.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    eek said:

    Stocky said:

    Sandpit said:

    Stocky said:

    Fenster said:

    Does anybody here still genuinely think Labour can win enough seats to force a hung parliament?

    And at what percentage do you rate the possibility of a hung parliament?

    Absolutely. A hung parliament always seemed the most likely outcome to me. This time in 2017 they were erecting giant effigies of Theresa on the cliffs of Dover. The only thing that's changed since then is Theresa being replaced with Boris. What can he do that she couldn't?
    Give Fenster a percentage then. I said 45% chance.
    I'd say there's a 98% chance of a hung parliament.
    Well Betfair will give you 3.25 on NOM. Fill yer boots.
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/event/28265958/market?marketId=1.136297311
    Arguably, an even better bet would be to look at the "Next Government" market with Betfair. You can get 16.5 on Tory Minority and 8.6 on Labour Minority.
    Goodness knows why it is thought that a Lab minority is more likely than a Tory minority.
    Bigger landing strip for that to occur.
    Tory minority can only really exist with DUP and/or Lib Dem abstentions.
    Lab minority can exist with SNP+PC+Green support and Lib Dem support and/or abstentions.
    The bell curve of seat distributions probably has any exact seat combo more likely within Tory minority but collectively Lab minority is much more likely than Tory minority.
    Surely Tory Minority exists unless something or someone else gets a majority or can create a majority. I would want to read the terms of the bet very clearly.

    For another election to occur Parliament must be sworn in and enough things done to the point that a vote for a new election occurs. That requires a Government to be in place even if there is no-one with command of the house.
    I agree with you Eek. Tory Minority is a sort of "default" position because, as incumbents, they get first dibs on running a minority government. They don`t need any support. Been round the houses on this before on PB.com. I may be wrong, but I`m sticking with my view that 16.5 on a Tory Minority is overpriced.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    In 2017 Labour squeezed the Lib Dem vote on Election Day . The Lib Dems underperformed their final poll by around 2 points , The Greens are unlikely to hold onto that 4 % and are also likely to be squeezed by Labour .
  • kinabalu said:

    Gordon Brown destroyed many pension funds and he wasn't anywhere near as dangerous as the Marxists in charge of Labour now.

    He removed a tax break if that's what you mean. There's no god given right to tax breaks - private schools please note.
    There is a reason pensions had a tax break and removing them and increasing taxes has consequences in the real world - Labour please note.
  • If people think this is bad, some people have never been to Northern working men's clubs....I am not sure telling the audience they are a load of thick far right supporters is the best idea.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-7748277/Chaos-Lords-Taverners-Christmas-charity-lunch-comedian-Nish-Kumar-booed-off.html
  • London Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 47% (+8)
    CON: 30% (+1)
    LIB: 15% (-4)
    GRN: 4% (-1)
    BRX: 3% (-3)

    YouGov 28 Nov- 2 Dec
    Changes w October/November

    Londoners want free stuff....
    Londoners know Johnson's record in London. Non-Londoners should view this as a negative job reference from a previous employer. You have been warned...
    This respresents a swing from Labour to Johnson's Tories from the last election. Non-Londoners should view this as a positive job reference from a previous employer.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    London Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 47% (+8)
    CON: 30% (+1)
    LIB: 15% (-4)
    GRN: 4% (-1)
    BRX: 3% (-3)

    YouGov 28 Nov- 2 Dec
    Changes w October/November

    Londoners want free stuff....
    Londoners know Johnson's record in London. Non-Londoners should view this as a negative job reference from a previous employer. You have been warned...
    What about the millions in the SE who work in London and will vote Tory?
  • Why all the delight on here about an 88 year old man being defeated? I can't remember Skinner telling a blatant lie in parliament which is a low bar in this recent government.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,213
    edited December 2019
    Seats, plural ?
    Lib Dem targets in London, majority, swing needed
    Target 1: Richmond Park 45 0.04%
    Target 2: Bermondsey and Old Southwark 12,972 11.08%
    Target 3: Sutton and Cheam 12,698 12.22%
  • Mr. Urquhart, not a fan of throwing stuff at people on stage.

    Booing if a comedian isn't funny is a different kettle of fish.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Seats, plural ?

    Lib Dem targets in London, majority, swing needed

    Target 1: Richmond Park 45 0.04%
    Target 2: Bermondsey and Old Southwark 12,972 11.08%
    Target 3: Sutton and Cheam 12,698 12.22%
    We need to see the inner/outer London splits from this poll.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    kinabalu said:

    alb1on said:

    I suspect he is a racist at heart. It is difficult to grow up in a family where the father was arrested at a KKK rally and was a Mafia associate (and the Mafia are very racist) without it rubbing off.

    Yes, he probably is racist. Also a misogynist. In fact for me that is what comes over clearer than just about anything else. As an aside I'll be seeing his stupid massive noisy 'copter later. It passes my place when it leaves Regents Park. I'll give it the finger on behalf of all.
    Joining the conversation late. I hadn't realised that Jeremy Corbyn's father was arrested at a KKK rally. Bloody hell when was that?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    The massive contribution holidays companies took in the 90's damaged pension funds.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061



    Compare and contrast the 49 years of him vs Clarke in parliament. Has the ridiculous old twat ever raised his constituency or served in any post in that time or is it just a series of crap jibes at black rod? He's a disgrace to public service.

    There are a LOT of people who feel that Skinner is one of the very few MPs who they can genuinely identify with, by contrast with the vaguely amicable middle-class blur which most MPs (including me when I was there) fade into.
    And a lot of people who find him a useless waste of space who has no interest in anything but faux class warfare and being a rude old git. The video Corbyn used of him anti the Boris deal was just one of an insane, demented old duffer who will say anything he is told to if he can keep his cushy job and that bit of green bench now shaped to his flabby old arse without having to do any work for it.
    But, you know, horses for courses, hes a typical labour MP. Pretend you're for the workers then ignore them and play games in the quest for socialist purity. The working class dont like traitors and labour is overflowing with them.
    I used to dislike labour for turning their back on the working class, now I want them exterminated for it.
  • kjohnw1 said:

    nunu2 said:

    This is really bad for Labour. A lot of their increase in the polls is coming from London.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/JoeMurphyLondon/status/1201820430669144065

    If Labour Is piling up votes in London then that surely increases the chances of a Tory landslide
    Yep, said this the other day. Pile up votes in urban areas, lose Northern marginals. Result is Tory majority.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    The national polls show the Tories unchanged from 2017?
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329

    https://twitter.com/danbloom1/status/1201780873051484160

    It's not even funny anymore, they just lie and lie

    That’s not privatisation.
    Of course it is.

    https://twitter.com/danbloom1/status/1201780873051484160

    It's not even funny anymore, they just lie and lie

    That’s not privatisation.
    Of course it is.
    .
    .
    Sorry, you are wrong. Wikipedia says:

    Privatization (or privatisation in British English) can mean different things including moving something from the public sector into the private sector. ... Government functions and services may also be privatized (which may also be known as "franchising" or "out-sourcing"); in this case, private entities are tasked with the implementation of government programs or performance of government services that had previously been the purview of state-run agencies.
    So labour privatised the NHS?

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/ournhs/moment-of-honesty-is-required-new-labour-began-dismantling-of-our-nhs/
    They did a bit, the Tories have done a whole lot more. Personally I am not averse to a degree of private involvement as long as it delivers genuine efficiencies and doesn't just shaft low paid workers or cut corners on care. I think people like Raab want to go a whole lot further than that and it is absolutely right for Labour to point that out.
    Well I agree with that, but if this is proof that the a Tories are going to privatise the NHS , then under that definition Labour have already done it. I think generally those Tories who want to inject a huge amount of private sector into NHS are on the fringes. I think In general the Tories recognise it would be mad to do this.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited December 2019

    This makes me tempted to vote for Corbyn, but then I think he's a Tory melt, why only a third, if he was true Labour in the mould of Attlee then rail travel should be free at the point of use.

    https://twitter.com/politicshome/status/1201381654180352000

    It's exactly stuff like this which should make you ultra wary of nationalisation. They're not even in power and any pretense that these industries wont be just the play thing of political masters is thrown out the window. If you sacrifice revenue in this way you have to take it from elsewhere. After the announcements and the political applause the interest will move elsewhere and the railways would have lost a chunk of income.
    So you're saying that the private profits are a fee we pay because we aren't grown-up enough to make rational collective choices. A rather depressing conclusion.
    A rather logical and sensible conclusion.
    There is nothing depressing about profits, profits represent the fee for smart, grown-up specialist management of an area yes but if the smart, grown-up specialist management is worthwhile then is that not a fee worth paying?
    Collectivism doesn't work. History and reality show that as does logic. Lets say the railways are brought under collective control, bear in mind a tiny minority of people actually use them, at any subsequent budget or election which will get first dibs on investment - the railways or the NHS? We all know the answer.
    The NHS works because we make it a national priority, it overrides everything else. If you try to make everything your priority then nothing is.
    There is one graph that shows very clearly why nationalisation fails and privatisation works for the railways. Real people's real choices:

  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,605

    Barnesian said:

    Brom said:

    Barnesian said:

    nico67 said:

    A good Kantar poll for the Tories and a big relief for the Lib Dems after the Survation horror show which had them at just 11%.

    I's prefer LDs on 11% as long as its 40% in our target seats and 5% in our many non-target seats. I wouldn't want 15% in our non-target seats at the expense of Labour, letting the Tories come through the middle of a split remain vote.
    I don't know why you'd be worried. Your model has the Lib Dems on 26 seats
    It assumes efficient and widespread tactical voting.
    Do you still expect that given what's happened this campaign?
    Yes
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    Brom said:

    Applying an incredibly loose mathematical principle, national yougov polling has seen Lab climb 2 points since November 5th yet in London they have climbed 4 times as much (8 points) over the same period, suggesting any improvement in other parts of the country could be far more modest.

    Suggesting perhaps even going down in a few parts of the country
  • Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    Brom said:

    Barnesian said:

    nico67 said:

    A good Kantar poll for the Tories and a big relief for the Lib Dems after the Survation horror show which had them at just 11%.

    I's prefer LDs on 11% as long as its 40% in our target seats and 5% in our many non-target seats. I wouldn't want 15% in our non-target seats at the expense of Labour, letting the Tories come through the middle of a split remain vote.
    I don't know why you'd be worried. Your model has the Lib Dems on 26 seats
    It assumes efficient and widespread tactical voting.
    Do you still expect that given what's happened this campaign?
    Yes
    Why? Bearing in mind the overwhelming majority of voters are not political obsessives and don't check political tactical voting sites, why would it be efficient and widespread?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    kjohnw1 said:

    nunu2 said:

    This is really bad for Labour. A lot of their increase in the polls is coming from London.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/JoeMurphyLondon/status/1201820430669144065

    If Labour Is piling up votes in London then that surely increases the chances of a Tory landslide
    Yep, said this the other day. Pile up votes in urban areas, lose Northern marginals. Result is Tory majority.
    Landslide. Labour are going backwards fast outside southern remainia. They wont make 30% on polling day
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329

    London Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 47% (+8)
    CON: 30% (+1)
    LIB: 15% (-4)
    GRN: 4% (-1)
    BRX: 3% (-3)

    YouGov 28 Nov- 2 Dec
    Changes w October/November

    Ooh the Debbonaire effect in action. It would be even more interesting if Labour are still losing a few close marginals in London
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,236
    Brom said:

    Yes, it's unusual a poll where Labour go up is bad news for them but it adds to the feeling they're stacking up votes where they don't need them. Putney, Chipping Barnet, Hendon and possibly Chingford, Harrow East or Cities could be in play but they might gain 3 or 4 seats here at the expense of 40 or 50 north of the Watford Gap.

    I think this is right. Labour will do well down South but lose the election (and big) in the North and the Midlands. It is a Brexit election and their Leave voters will sink them. That said, I don't think there was much they could have done about this. If they had positioned themselves as more Leave to defend that flank they risked being smashed by the LDs elsewhere. Could have been a meltdown. This way, they protect their position as the main opposition party to the Tories. With the framing and timing of this GE being nigh on perfect for the Tories, it was always about damage limitation for Labour. If they can limit the Con majority to less than 50 that will be a decent effort.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,129
    edited December 2019

    Mr. Urquhart, not a fan of throwing stuff at people on stage.

    Booing if a comedian isn't funny is a different kettle of fish.

    I think that happened after he went all big baby and starting saying he wasn't leaving, he was going full Bercow and wouldn't budge, and why didn't they book a right wing comedian.

    I go to see stand-up quite often and you can tell now that people just don't want to hear Brexit gag after Breixt gag, especially not the predictable Leavers are Gammon stuff.

    Mark Watson had it right earlier this year when he basically said people come to see stand-up for a laugh and get away from real life, so I won't be doing Brexit gags as nobody wants me banging on about that for an hour and half.
  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836
    nunu2 said:

    Labour are up 8% in London but Torys still have a 9% lead nationally. So where is the tory lead coming from.....the north and Midlands is the answer.

    Why didn't MRP show this more starkly then?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    London Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 47% (+8)
    CON: 30% (+1)
    LIB: 15% (-4)
    GRN: 4% (-1)
    BRX: 3% (-3)

    YouGov 28 Nov- 2 Dec
    Changes w October/November

    How does that compare with GE 2017??
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,605

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    Brom said:

    Barnesian said:

    nico67 said:

    A good Kantar poll for the Tories and a big relief for the Lib Dems after the Survation horror show which had them at just 11%.

    I's prefer LDs on 11% as long as its 40% in our target seats and 5% in our many non-target seats. I wouldn't want 15% in our non-target seats at the expense of Labour, letting the Tories come through the middle of a split remain vote.
    I don't know why you'd be worried. Your model has the Lib Dems on 26 seats
    It assumes efficient and widespread tactical voting.
    Do you still expect that given what's happened this campaign?
    Yes
    Why? Bearing in mind the overwhelming majority of voters are not political obsessives and don't check political tactical voting sites, why would it be efficient and widespread?
    In non-target LD seats, the LDs will be almost invisible leaving it clear for Labour to squeeze the LD vote. Most LDs are remainers and prefer a short term Corbyn government introducing a second referendum than Johnson pushing through the WDA and leaving the EU.
  • London Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 47% (+8)
    CON: 30% (+1)
    LIB: 15% (-4)
    GRN: 4% (-1)
    BRX: 3% (-3)

    YouGov 28 Nov- 2 Dec
    Changes w October/November

    How does that compare with GE 2017??
    https://twitter.com/MatthewGreen02/status/1201824372719308800
  • Mr. Urquhart, not a fan of throwing stuff at people on stage.

    Booing if a comedian isn't funny is a different kettle of fish.

    I think that happened after he went all big baby and starting saying he wasn't leaving, he was going full Bercow and wouldn't budge, and why didn't they book a right wing comedian.
    Yes, Bernard Manning sounds more like the audience's cup of tea.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited December 2019
    kinabalu said:

    Brom said:

    Yes, it's unusual a poll where Labour go up is bad news for them but it adds to the feeling they're stacking up votes where they don't need them. Putney, Chipping Barnet, Hendon and possibly Chingford, Harrow East or Cities could be in play but they might gain 3 or 4 seats here at the expense of 40 or 50 north of the Watford Gap.

    I think this is right. Labour will do well down South but lose the election (and big) in the North and the Midlands. It is a Brexit election and their Leave voters will sink them. That said, I don't think there was much they could have done about this. If they had positioned themselves as more Leave to defend that flank they risked being smashed by the LDs elsewhere. Could have been a meltdown. This way, they protect their position as the main opposition party to the Tories. With the framing and timing of this GE being nigh on perfect for the Tories, it was always about damage limitation for Labour. If they can limit the Con majority to less than 50 that will be a decent effort.
    I think a 15 to 45-50 or so tory majority would be a very bad result for Labour. Puts Johnson once again at the mercy of the ERG, rather than able to compromise on Europe. Less than that, and the sheer instability of events may return us to much of where we before.

    More than that, and he's free and clear to do what he wants.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    edited December 2019

    London Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 47% (+8)
    CON: 30% (+1)
    LIB: 15% (-4)
    GRN: 4% (-1)
    BRX: 3% (-3)

    YouGov 28 Nov- 2 Dec
    Changes w October/November

    How does that compare with GE 2017??
    GE 2017 London.
    Lab 55,
    Con 33,
    LD 9.
    Green 5
    UKIP 6
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453

    kjohnw1 said:

    nunu2 said:

    This is really bad for Labour. A lot of their increase in the polls is coming from London.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/JoeMurphyLondon/status/1201820430669144065

    If Labour Is piling up votes in London then that surely increases the chances of a Tory landslide
    Yep, said this the other day. Pile up votes in urban areas, lose Northern marginals. Result is Tory majority.
    Landslide. Labour are going backwards fast outside southern remainia. They wont make 30% on polling day
    They might hit 33% on polling day, but the question is how? By piling up votes in London and the south. Lol
  • Mr. Urquhart, not a fan of throwing stuff at people on stage.

    Booing if a comedian isn't funny is a different kettle of fish.

    I think that happened after he went all big baby and starting saying he wasn't leaving, he was going full Bercow and wouldn't budge, and why didn't they book a right wing comedian.
    Yes, Bernard Manning sounds more like the audience's cup of tea.
    You are Nish Kumar and I claim my £5.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    Gabs3 said:

    nunu2 said:

    Labour are up 8% in London but Torys still have a 9% lead nationally. So where is the tory lead coming from.....the north and Midlands is the answer.

    Why didn't MRP show this more starkly

    It will
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    dr_spyn said:
    I would love the Tories to take Battersea but I just can't see it. Kensington however I'd be very confident about, the working class remain vote will go Coad, the wealthy remain vote Gyimah and through the middle come the Tories.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,236
    TOPPING said:

    Joining the conversation late. I hadn't realised that Jeremy Corbyn's father was arrested at a KKK rally. Bloody hell when was that?

    Or rather not joining the conversation. More stopping it dead in its tracks. Which is OK - I have moved on to other matters.
  • Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    Brom said:

    Barnesian said:

    nico67 said:

    A good Kantar poll for the Tories and a big relief for the Lib Dems after the Survation horror show which had them at just 11%.

    I's prefer LDs on 11% as long as its 40% in our target seats and 5% in our many non-target seats. I wouldn't want 15% in our non-target seats at the expense of Labour, letting the Tories come through the middle of a split remain vote.
    I don't know why you'd be worried. Your model has the Lib Dems on 26 seats
    It assumes efficient and widespread tactical voting.
    Do you still expect that given what's happened this campaign?
    Yes
    Why? Bearing in mind the overwhelming majority of voters are not political obsessives and don't check political tactical voting sites, why would it be efficient and widespread?
    In non-target LD seats, the LDs will be almost invisible leaving it clear for Labour to squeeze the LD vote. Most LDs are remainers and prefer a short term Corbyn government introducing a second referendum than Johnson pushing through the WDA and leaving the EU.
    That was a reasonable assumption a month ago when we assumed the LDs would be almost invisible in seats where Lab were looking to squeeze the LD vote. But that's not been the case as evidenced by the now-infamous Lib Dem letters sent by Mike Smithson to seats the Lib Dems should not be in the running in.
    Take for example my former seat of Warrington South that has been much commented on. The Lib Dems have not been invisible there and have even sent the Smithson letter there.
  • Labour Leavers really have a call to make over the next 10 days. The Tories have screwed them over every single time they've been in power, do they want another five years of that? There are signs they're coming back - but they need to move and fast. We can still change things for the better and get this awful Government out.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    Mr. Urquhart, not a fan of throwing stuff at people on stage.

    Booing if a comedian isn't funny is a different kettle of fish.

    I think that happened after he went all big baby and starting saying he wasn't leaving, he was going full Bercow and wouldn't budge, and why didn't they book a right wing comedian.
    Yes, Bernard Manning sounds more like the audience's cup of tea.
    You are Nish Kumar and I claim my £5.
    Comedian in question was in my class at school (same school as PB twitter faves Emily Benn and Aaron Bell). He was not amusing back then but has always been political and has carved out a career where his audience go for the politics rather than the laughs. Unfunny old world.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    nunu2 said:

    The national polls show the Tories unchanged from 2017?
    London is
    Lab -7.5%
    Con -3.1%
    LD +6.2%

    Compared to GE 2017

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,213

    Labour Leavers really have a call to make over the next 10 days. The Tories have screwed them over every single time they've been in power, do they want another five years of that? There are signs they're coming back - but they need to move and fast. We can still change things for the better and get this awful Government out.

    Gov'ts tend to pay attention to where the marginals are. If there's a modal shift in those, then well..
  • Labour Leavers really have a call to make over the next 10 days. The Tories have screwed them over every single time they've been in power, do they want another five years of that? There are signs they're coming back - but they need to move and fast. We can still change things for the better and get this awful Government out.

    Oh dear - looks like Labour Leavers are sick of being treated with contempt by Labour, and prefer to vote for a party that will actually respect their democratic choice. What a shame.

    p.s. There are 8 full days of campaigning left.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    dr_spyn said:
    It shows Labour lead in outer london of only 7% over the tories.

    Tories will be happy with that
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590

    Labour Leavers really have a call to make over the next 10 days. The Tories have screwed them over every single time they've been in power, do they want another five years of that? There are signs they're coming back - but they need to move and fast. We can still change things for the better and get this awful Government out.

    Lol. Wrong website?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,129
    edited December 2019
    Brom said:

    Mr. Urquhart, not a fan of throwing stuff at people on stage.

    Booing if a comedian isn't funny is a different kettle of fish.

    I think that happened after he went all big baby and starting saying he wasn't leaving, he was going full Bercow and wouldn't budge, and why didn't they book a right wing comedian.
    Yes, Bernard Manning sounds more like the audience's cup of tea.
    You are Nish Kumar and I claim my £5.
    Comedian in question was in my class at school (same school as PB twitter faves Emily Benn and Aaron Bell). He was not amusing back then but has always been political and has carved out a career where his audience go for the politics rather than the laughs. Unfunny old world.
    The level of stand-up comedy at the moment is very poor. I would say only Ross Noble is the only one who I have really really belly laughed through in the past couple of years.

    There is a lot of very tame bland nonsense like Romesh Ranganathan and predictable ranty but unfunny Kumar. Even Mark Thomas, who despite totally disagreeing with politically, used to be very funny with his tales of protests / campaigns isn't very interesting these days.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    BluerBlue said:

    Labour Leavers really have a call to make over the next 10 days. The Tories have screwed them over every single time they've been in power, do they want another five years of that? There are signs they're coming back - but they need to move and fast. We can still change things for the better and get this awful Government out.

    Oh dear - looks like Labour Leavers are sick of being treated with contempt by Labour, and prefer to vote for a party that will actually respect their democratic choice. What a shame.

    p.s. There are 8 full days of campaigning left.
    We'll never know about that huge 5 point swing to Labour that happens on Friday after Johnson becomes PM.
  • maaarsh said:

    Labour Leavers really have a call to make over the next 10 days. The Tories have screwed them over every single time they've been in power, do they want another five years of that? There are signs they're coming back - but they need to move and fast. We can still change things for the better and get this awful Government out.

    Lol. Wrong website?
    There's enough Tory campaigning on here, why shouldn't there be from all sides ?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Goodwin says London poll is why LDs are likely to gain seats from Con and Lab in London

    YG MRP not showing any LD Gains from Lab in London
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590

    Brom said:

    Mr. Urquhart, not a fan of throwing stuff at people on stage.

    Booing if a comedian isn't funny is a different kettle of fish.

    I think that happened after he went all big baby and starting saying he wasn't leaving, he was going full Bercow and wouldn't budge, and why didn't they book a right wing comedian.
    Yes, Bernard Manning sounds more like the audience's cup of tea.
    You are Nish Kumar and I claim my £5.
    Comedian in question was in my class at school (same school as PB twitter faves Emily Benn and Aaron Bell). He was not amusing back then but has always been political and has carved out a career where his audience go for the politics rather than the laughs. Unfunny old world.
    The level of stand-up comedy at the moment is very poor. I would say only Ross Noble is the only one who I have really really belly laughed through in the past couple of years.
    Stewart Lee's still pretty good - and he actually manages to pitch his character so it works whichever way you voted, unlike most of his north London contemporaries
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,213

    Goodwin says London poll is why LDs are likely to gain seats from Con and Lab in London

    YG MRP not showing any LD Gains from Lab in London

    Having the easiest at a 10,000+ majority tends to help in defense :D
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,129
    edited December 2019
    maaarsh said:

    Brom said:

    Mr. Urquhart, not a fan of throwing stuff at people on stage.

    Booing if a comedian isn't funny is a different kettle of fish.

    I think that happened after he went all big baby and starting saying he wasn't leaving, he was going full Bercow and wouldn't budge, and why didn't they book a right wing comedian.
    Yes, Bernard Manning sounds more like the audience's cup of tea.
    You are Nish Kumar and I claim my £5.
    Comedian in question was in my class at school (same school as PB twitter faves Emily Benn and Aaron Bell). He was not amusing back then but has always been political and has carved out a career where his audience go for the politics rather than the laughs. Unfunny old world.
    The level of stand-up comedy at the moment is very poor. I would say only Ross Noble is the only one who I have really really belly laughed through in the past couple of years.
    Stewart Lee's still pretty good - and he actually manages to pitch his character so it works whichever way you voted, unlike most of his north London contemporaries
    I know I lot of people love him, but I just never been able to really get into him. Nothing to do with his politics either, Mark Thomas 5-10 years ago was an absolute hoot* even if his politics make Jezza look centre right.

    * His show on his dad's progressive supranuclear palsy /and love of opera was also incredible, both moving and funny.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Another way to look at London is that it is very remain. Indicates Labour is picking up with remainers more so than leavers now.

    It’s a very young and ethnically diverse city too. That makes a big difference.

    The South-West, cities and outer fringes are still quite white middle-class and older, so that’s where the Tories and Lib Dems have their best chances, but less so in north/north-east London.

    Hendon/Finchley etc. are special cases for obvious reasons.
  • Just completed a YouGov.
    General VI question, constituency specific VI question, would I consider voting tactically in a two horse race, then an open ended question on my opinions on Corbyn, his policies and campaign. LOL.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590

    maaarsh said:

    Labour Leavers really have a call to make over the next 10 days. The Tories have screwed them over every single time they've been in power, do they want another five years of that? There are signs they're coming back - but they need to move and fast. We can still change things for the better and get this awful Government out.

    Lol. Wrong website?
    There's enough Tory campaigning on here, why shouldn't there be from all sides ?
    I'm just amused to watch the mask slip as we get nearer polling day. We seem to be well past the stage of trying to establish a serious position, to now posting this kind of rabid drivel - not leaving any gears to go to in the last week.
This discussion has been closed.