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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Bloomberg’s WH2020 bid looks serious and credible and it helps

SystemSystem Posts: 11,695
edited November 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Bloomberg’s WH2020 bid looks serious and credible and it helps that he’s worth $50bn

Above is one of the first WH2020 campaign ads for 77 year old Michael Bloomberg who announced at the weekend that we was running for the White House. His approach to the campaign for the Democratic is very different from his rivals.

Read the full story here


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Comments

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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,475
    edited November 2019
    Bloomberg is a Republican. He ran as a Republican. He served as a Republican. As pointed out in the last thread, he has recently funded Republican candidates against Democrats. The idea that Democrat activists will support him is for the birds.

    ETA: of course, the same was said about Trump being a Democrat.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,961
    OK BLOOMBERG
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    asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276
    Does he actually stand for anything unique in policy terms?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,961

    Does he actually stand for anything unique in policy terms?

    The billionaire class. I reckon he massively helps Sanders.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,039
    Bloomberg is mad he didn't run in 2016.

    This time, he's going to run, and he will lose badly.

    Iowa and New Hampshire will be won by Pete Buttigieg (who is now second in the national polling, behind only Biden). He may stumble a little in South Carolina, but there are a lot of moderates in the Democratic party looking for a young articulate candidate.

    Step forward Mayor Pete.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,961
    How is Bloomberg going to qualify for any debates ?
    I mean who on earth is going to donate to someone who has 50 billion dollars, where will he find 200,000 unique donors from.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985
    Pulpstar said:

    How is Bloomberg going to qualify for any debates ?
    I mean who on earth is going to donate to someone who has 50 billion dollars, where will he find 200,000 unique donors from.

    If Trump got loads of donations, why can't he? :p
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,961
    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    How is Bloomberg going to qualify for any debates ?
    I mean who on earth is going to donate to someone who has 50 billion dollars, where will he find 200,000 unique donors from.

    If Trump got loads of donations, why can't he? :p
    Trump was asking for money iirc
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151
    edited November 2019
    OGH said:

    At the very minimum he is likely to accumulate enough delegates to give him a fairly big say over who will get the nomination if it is not him.

    Is he? You need 15% in a congressional district or a state to get a single delegate. Beyond the early states the race will almost definitely be down to a lefty vs a moderate; They'll be sucking up all the oxygen, and moderates aren't going to waste their vote on some rich dude. I'm not convinced he'll get 15% *anywhere*.
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    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,244
    edited November 2019
    What would happen if there was a Trump - Warren - Bloomberg threeway?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,039
    edited November 2019

    OGH said:

    At the very minimum he is likely to accumulate enough delegates to give him a fairly big say over who will get the nomination if it is not him.

    Is he? You need 15% in a congressional district or a state to get a single delegate. Beyond the early states the race will almost definitely be down to a lefty vs a moderate; They'll be sucking up all the oxygen, and moderates aren't going to waste their vote on some rich dude. I'm not convinced he'll get 15% *anywhere*.
    The only way that Bloomberg has any sort of chance in this race is in the extremely unlikely event that only Sanders and Warren get out of Iowa / NH with any momentum. In that scenario, he *may* have a chance of getting some delegates.
    The reality is, however, that Iowa is likely to be Buttigieg win. This means he'll get a national polling bump, and a New Hampshire polling bump. Assuming he wins Iowa, he will be clear odds on favourite for NH. So, assume 60% chance of an Iowa win, and then 60% chance of him winning NH if he wins Iowa.
    Next up comes Nevada. That's another caucus, and a more left wing, more Hispanic one than Iowa. Biden is notionally in the lead there right now. But caucus states (as Hillary '08 found to her disadvantage) are organisation heavy states. Buttigieg will have the better on the ground operation, and Biden will have just lost two states in a row, possibly getting a fairly pitiful number of delegates. I think Nevada goes to Warren.
    The point about all this is that Bloomberg is going to be nowhere when these things are happening. Blanketing California in adverts means nothing if there is an existing moderate Democratic champion. Bloomberg needs Buttigieg to sink without a trace, and not be replaced by another moderate. And he needs Biden to continue to show his age.
    I don't find the 3% on Bloomberg winning the nomination to be an attractive price.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,961
    On age, isn't Bloomberg 77 like err Biden ?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,961
    In fact Bloomberg is even older lol, he'll be 78 in February. Same age as Sanders.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,961
    When is Bloomberg going to do his first rally ?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,039
    moonshine said:

    What would happen if there was a Trump - Warren - Bloomberg threeway?

    Trump would mop up.
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    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    edited November 2019
    I was having an evening with an American lady last night.
    Her reaction was 'just what we need, another rich old white man'
    She is likely to go for Warren, without much enthusiasm. Then Pete unless Amy or Kamala get momentum.
    An anecdote of one slightly bemused (by the original size of the field) and frustrated (by the profile of the candidates) Democrat from California.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,762

    Bloomberg is a Republican. He ran as a Republican. He served as a Republican. As pointed out in the last thread, he has recently funded Republican candidates against Democrats. The idea that Democrat activists will support him is for the birds.

    ETA: of course, the same was said about Trump being a Democrat.

    I tend to agree. I would be amazed if he gets anywhere near 15%.
    I’m a little surprised that OGH is so keen on a hubristic septuagenarian considering his views on Biden’s candidacy.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,762
    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    What would happen if there was a Trump - Warren - Bloomberg threeway?

    Trump would mop up.
    Unlikely - he’s a germaphobe.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,791
    "US life expectancy is still on the decline. Here's why"

    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/11/26/health/us-life-expectancy-decline-study/index.html
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    kamskikamski Posts: 4,272
    Bloomberg is really not popular amongst democrats, it seems a bit unlikely that he would even win any delegates.

    I'm more interested in why Warren is a frontrunner and Cory Booker is nowhere. In many ways he seems a more appealing candidate. And although there isn't a lot of Trump vs Booker polling, in the latest Wisconsin poll (Nov 13 -17) he is the only Dem candidate (out of 6) beating Trump.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,039
    Nigelb said:

    Bloomberg is a Republican. He ran as a Republican. He served as a Republican. As pointed out in the last thread, he has recently funded Republican candidates against Democrats. The idea that Democrat activists will support him is for the birds.

    ETA: of course, the same was said about Trump being a Democrat.

    I tend to agree. I would be amazed if he gets anywhere near 15%.
    I’m a little surprised that OGH is so keen on a hubristic septuagenarian considering his views on Biden’s candidacy.
    To be fair, unlike Biden, Bloomberg is not showing obvious signs of age related mental degredation.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,039
    kamski said:

    Bloomberg is really not popular amongst democrats, it seems a bit unlikely that he would even win any delegates.

    I'm more interested in why Warren is a frontrunner and Cory Booker is nowhere. In many ways he seems a more appealing candidate. And although there isn't a lot of Trump vs Booker polling, in the latest Wisconsin poll (Nov 13 -17) he is the only Dem candidate (out of 6) beating Trump.

    Cory Booker was perfect on paper, but never got it together.

    The priamry process rewards ruthless organising skill and the ability to captivate a crowd. Buttigieg has the first in spades (hence the fact that he's outraising Biden and has a fabulous operation in Iowa), and manages OK with the second. Sanders manages both, of course. Although the fact he looks older than his 78 years does him no favours.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,039
    Andy_JS said:
    Is it anything to do with Ed Milliband?
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,791
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Is it anything to do with Ed Milliband?
    Don't think so.
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    PeterCPeterC Posts: 1,274
    Is the new Vanilla layout a fault to be rectified or someone's idea of an upgrade?
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,350
    I really cannot see Bloomberg being a serious candidate for the Democratic nomination. That doesn't have to stop him of course. He can run as an independent if he chooses.
    Who that helps or hinders is unclear to me. I can see a lot of moderate republicans appalled by Trump finding such a candidature attractive. Both of the American parties have fallen victim to the sort of capture we have seen in Labour here. They are much weaker than they were in 1996.
    He is in many ways a much more serious candidate than Ross Perot was because he has actual experience of substantial public office as a Republican in a Democratic State. At the moment all his guns are focused on Trump but that may well be because he is seeking the Democratic nomination. I suspect if he runs as an independent he will be having a go at both sides in equal measure.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,350
    PeterC said:

    Is the new Vanilla layout a fault to be rectified or someone's idea of an upgrade?

    What I have found, if it is of any help, is that if you write with no spacings between your paragraphs then they come out looking relatively normal. If you give them the normal extra line they become absurdly spaced out elongating the contributions to the point they become hard to read.
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    On thread, as long as his excellent TV channel is unaffected, I really don't care whether Michael Bloomberg, Donald Trump or any of the other candidates win the US election next year. I am not American, have never visited America, have no intention of visiting America unless they change their barbaric gun laws so let them get on with it. Whether Democrat or Republican, they will all put America First. They always have and always will do.
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    Banterman said:
    What’s this got to do with Labour?
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    rcs1000 said:

    Bloomberg is mad he didn't run in 2016.

    This time, he's going to run, and he will lose badly.

    Iowa and New Hampshire will be won by Pete Buttigieg (who is now second in the national polling, behind only Biden). He may stumble a little in South Carolina, but there are a lot of moderates in the Democratic party looking for a young articulate candidate.

    Step forward Mayor Pete.

    Don’t get me wrong, I like Mayor Pete, but don’t you think your judgment on his chances is affected by the fact you like him so much?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,039

    rcs1000 said:

    Bloomberg is mad he didn't run in 2016.

    This time, he's going to run, and he will lose badly.

    Iowa and New Hampshire will be won by Pete Buttigieg (who is now second in the national polling, behind only Biden). He may stumble a little in South Carolina, but there are a lot of moderates in the Democratic party looking for a young articulate candidate.

    Step forward Mayor Pete.

    Don’t get me wrong, I like Mayor Pete, but don’t you think your judgment on his chances is affected by the fact you like him so much?
    I think my judgement may be skewed by having taken Mrs Cyclefree's advice a long time ago...

    But if moderate, telegenic Buttigieg wins Iowa, then what chance does Bloomberg have? Unless all the moderates crash and burn, what's Bloomerg's pitch?
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,660
    Jezza dominating the newspaper front pages this morning.

    But not in a good way.

    The question is whether it will shift votes. I'm not convinced that it will.
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    ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    The newspaper headlines are particularly brutal for Mr. Corbyn this morning. Even traditionally supportive newspapers are scathing. I wonder how this will affect his personal ratings and Labours position generally. I predict it has the chance of being devastating. Does anyone have any immediate data about this?
    I wonder why Labour did not prepare adequately for this interview. They may have just guaranteed a conservative landslide.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,321
    edited November 2019

    Jezza dominating the newspaper front pages this morning.

    But not in a good way.

    The question is whether it will shift votes. I'm not convinced that it will.

    Interesting to hear BBC radio went with his admission in tax rises for ordinary people. That, I think, is where the danger lies for Labour - both because nobody likes paying more tax, and because they have just admitted lying in their manifesto. I can certainly see that shifting votes.
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    Now this is a story I can comment on with some authority. David is one of my partners. Anyone who thinks that David is not completely his own man has never met him.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,732
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    edited November 2019
    On topic, I’m on the other side of the bet to Mike on this. There is nothing about American politics that suggests what is needed is another septuagenarian New York billionaire. Michael Bloomberg is known but not liked. He’s got no momentum. He has very questionable drive given he’s pulled out more times in the past than a good Catholic. All he has is money. That seems most unlikely to be enough.
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    ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    It’s interesting that this is now the most read item on the BBC site.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50567979

    Many people may now be motivated to watch the interview which is not to Labours advantage.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,732
    DavidL said:

    PeterC said:

    Is the new Vanilla layout a fault to be rectified or someone's idea of an upgrade?

    What I have found, if it is of any help, is that if you write with no spacings between your paragraphs then they come out looking relatively normal. If you give them the normal extra line they become absurdly spaced out elongating the contributions to the point they become hard to read.
    Yeah, that seems to help but Vanilla is a real mess, with the comments not visible on the original site on chrome, the nested comments being visible as ghosts, and the extra line being inserted every paragraph.
    When I hear the word software upgrade, I reach for my gun.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,030
    ydoethur said:

    Jezza dominating the newspaper front pages this morning.

    But not in a good way.

    The question is whether it will shift votes. I'm not convinced that it will.

    Interesting to hear BBC radio went with his admission in tax rises for ordinary people. That, I think, is where the danger lies for Labour - both because nobody likes paying more tax, and because they have just admitted lying in their manifesto. I can certainly see that shifting votes.
    Eldest Granddaughter (early 30's) has changed jobs and moved from East to Mid-Yorks. And all of a sudden, from being Lib/Lab she's become enthusiastic about Labour and particularly about Corbyn.
    I haven't, of course, spoken to her this morning; may be that she'll phone her Grannie sometime today, and I'll have the chance to ask her.
    "Twill also be interesting to talk to her brother and sister-in-law when we see them on Sunday.
    Have to admit that while I was swinging towards Labour form LD (over nuclear weapons) anti-semitism would swing me back again.
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    Foxy said:
    The reporting on this is terrible. Life expectancy is increasing. Expectations of improvements in life expectancy are being trimmed back. This paper, actually linked to in the Guardian’s awful report, is clear:

    https://www.actuaries.org.uk/news-and-insights/media-centre/media-releases-and-statements/longer-term-influences-driving-lower-life-expectancy-projections

    This more recent paper gives the same message. The truth is disappointing enough without shoddy reporting as well:

    https://www.theactuary.com/news/2019/10/life-expectancy-gains-in-uk-among-worst-in-developed-world/
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,350
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    PeterC said:

    Is the new Vanilla layout a fault to be rectified or someone's idea of an upgrade?

    What I have found, if it is of any help, is that if you write with no spacings between your paragraphs then they come out looking relatively normal. If you give them the normal extra line they become absurdly spaced out elongating the contributions to the point they become hard to read.
    Yeah, that seems to help but Vanilla is a real mess, with the comments not visible on the original site on chrome, the nested comments being visible as ghosts, and the extra line being inserted every paragraph.
    When I hear the word software upgrade, I reach for my gun.
    I honestly struggle to recall any website that I use regularly for work or otherwise that has ever had improved functionality after an upgrade. It seems software designers cannot resist increasing complexity at the cost of utility, adding in default features that are a nuisance and making the main functions more difficult to find. Westlaw have just suffered this fate as did, a year or two ago now, Scotcourts. It's really irritating.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,350

    It’s interesting that this is now the most read item on the BBC site.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50567979

    Many people may now be motivated to watch the interview which is not to Labours advantage.

    I said last night that that was the most significant part of the interview and is far more likely to switch votes than his anti-Semetism which surely everyone knows about already and, presumably, 1/3 of the population is ok with. It's more than a bit sad but human nature I suppose.
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    Jezza dominating the newspaper front pages this morning.

    But not in a good way.

    The question is whether it will shift votes. I'm not convinced that it will.

    The news cycle shifts quickly which will be good for him. I think Jezza being crap is priced in to some extent, though this will give people a quick reminder.

    It might change a few votes, I don’t think the shift will be dramatic because all of the party leaders are getting one of these and I can’t see Boris faring much better to be honest.
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    Why is anyone surprised at Corbyn's equivocation on the anti-/Semitism issue.

    To ultra left wing socialists there is a simple equation.

    All Capitalists are evil

    All Jews are Capitalists

    Therefore...…. work it out for yourselves.

    When I was a Young Conservative, most of my closest friends were Jewish, members of the East Renfewshire Young Conservatives chaired by one Jackson Carlaw. To think of them being described in the way they are by the cabal around Corbyn makes my stomach heave! Another group of my friends were the sons of Glasgow's Muslim businessmen, some of whom had started businesses in Glasgow within months of being expelled from Uganda by Idi Amin. Both groups mixed socially with total ease and were more likely to be in conflict if they supported one Glasgow football team rather than its well known rival. There was no visible racial tension with or between either group. I just cannot fathom this visceral hatred of some members of our minority groups who are lovely, law abiding folks and have contributed massively to our country. Fanatics of any sort are the problem, not whether people attend places of faith on a Friday, Saturday or Sunday, if at all!
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    It’s not really a tax rise though is it? They get a tax break at the moment, taking it away isn’t a tax rise from my POV.

    I don’t think taking tax credits away was a tax rise either.

    I can see what the perception might be but I don’t feel it’s a rise if I’m honest
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,350

    Foxy said:
    The reporting on this is terrible. Life expectancy is increasing. Expectations of improvements in life expectancy are being trimmed back. This paper, actually linked to in the Guardian’s awful report, is clear:

    https://www.actuaries.org.uk/news-and-insights/media-centre/media-releases-and-statements/longer-term-influences-driving-lower-life-expectancy-projections

    This more recent paper gives the same message. The truth is disappointing enough without shoddy reporting as well:

    https://www.theactuary.com/news/2019/10/life-expectancy-gains-in-uk-among-worst-in-developed-world/
    I am a long way from being a mathematician but the level of dyscalculia in those who choose journalism as a career is a major problem and results in so much nonsense being published. It also means politicians of all stripes get away with so much rubbish.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137
    edited November 2019

    It’s interesting that this is now the most read item on the BBC site.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50567979
    Many people may now be motivated to watch the interview which is not to Labours advantage.

    Corbyn's admissions opens up so many attack lines. The primary one for me is that he wouldn't have the £58 billion for the WASPIs. Where would be get it?Taxing the billionaires? Forget it - they will have moved their billions within an hour of the exit poll. Most likely it will be either pension funds, or the means that pension funds have to sustain their funds. He will either rob them directly, or tax the company profits and crash the value of shares.
    Either way, by trying to fix an injustice to one group of pensioners, he will cause hardship to all of them.
    Or more likely of course, the WASPI women will get fobbed off with a promise - a Govt. bond. Because that isn't Govt. debt, is it Labour? *slaps forehead in despair*
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,321
    edited November 2019

    It’s not really a tax rise though is it? They get a tax break at the moment, taking it away isn’t a tax rise from my POV.

    I don’t think taking tax credits away was a tax rise either.

    I can see what the perception might be but I don’t feel it’s a rise if I’m honest

    The changes to taxes on dividends would clobber anyone with a private pension as well.
    But the key problem for Labour is the admission they did not tell the truth in their manifesto.
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    https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1199587695770656768?s=21

    I think it’s priced in and people don’t care
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    Missed last night's interview due to essential football watching (hoorar 4-2) but delighted to hear the lead news on Radio 2 is the acceptance by JC that the marriage tax alowance is going to hit 2 million lower earning households for £250pa.

    The lead story.

    Well done Andrew Neil....
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137

    It’s not really a tax rise though is it? They get a tax break at the moment, taking it away isn’t a tax rise from my POV.
    I don’t think taking tax credits away was a tax rise either.
    I can see what the perception might be but I don’t feel it’s a rise if I’m honest

    "Dear Voter, we are taking away your tax breaks. This is not a tax rise."
    "Will my tax go up?"
    "Er...."
    "Will my take home pay go down?"
    "Er....yes"
    "So how is my tax going up and my take home pay going down not a tax rise?"
    "Er...Vote Labour!"
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,350

    It’s not really a tax rise though is it? They get a tax break at the moment, taking it away isn’t a tax rise from my POV.

    I don’t think taking tax credits away was a tax rise either.

    I can see what the perception might be but I don’t feel it’s a rise if I’m honest

    When that radical socialist Osborne took away all of my personal allowance and my right to Child Benefit these were tax rises, believe me. They were tax rises because as a result I had to pay much larger lump sums to HMRC twice a year.
    The idea that it is only a tax rise when the actual rate is changed is frankly absurd. Even Corbyn is not that stupid. He is dishonest though.
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    On topic, I’m on the other side of the bet to Mike on this. There is nothing about American politics that suggests what is needed is another septuagenarian New York billionaire. Michael Bloomberg is known but not liked. He’s got no momentum. He has very questionable drive given he’s pulled out more times in the past than a good Catholic. All he has is money. That seems most unlikely to be enough.

    He's sound on climate change, guns and beating Trump.
    I don't really mind who wins the nomination, they'll all be infinitely better than Trump. Is Biden really the Democrats best chance of beating Trump?
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137
    edited November 2019
    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:
    The reporting on this is terrible. Life expectancy is increasing. Expectations of improvements in life expectancy are being trimmed back. This paper, actually linked to in the Guardian’s awful report, is clear:

    https://www.actuaries.org.uk/news-and-insights/media-centre/media-releases-and-statements/longer-term-influences-driving-lower-life-expectancy-projections

    This more recent paper gives the same message. The truth is disappointing enough without shoddy reporting as well:

    https://www.theactuary.com/news/2019/10/life-expectancy-gains-in-uk-among-worst-in-developed-world/
    I am a long way from being a mathematician but the level of dyscalculia in those who choose journalism as a career is a major problem and results in so much nonsense being published. It also means politicians of all stripes get away with so much rubbish.
    "dyscalculia"
    Word of the campaign.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,030

    On topic, I’m on the other side of the bet to Mike on this. There is nothing about American politics that suggests what is needed is another septuagenarian New York billionaire. Michael Bloomberg is known but not liked. He’s got no momentum. He has very questionable drive given he’s pulled out more times in the past than a good Catholic. All he has is money. That seems most unlikely to be enough.

    He's sound on climate change, guns and beating Trump.
    I don't really mind who wins the nomination, they'll all be infinitely better than Trump. Is Biden really the Democrats best chance of beating Trump?
    Our cat would be better than Trump!
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    DavidL said:

    It’s not really a tax rise though is it? They get a tax break at the moment, taking it away isn’t a tax rise from my POV.

    I don’t think taking tax credits away was a tax rise either.

    I can see what the perception might be but I don’t feel it’s a rise if I’m honest

    When that radical socialist Osborne took away all of my personal allowance and my right to Child Benefit these were tax rises, believe me. They were tax rises because as a result I had to pay much larger lump sums to HMRC twice a year.
    The idea that it is only a tax rise when the actual rate is changed is frankly absurd. Even Corbyn is not that stupid. He is dishonest though.
    Fair point
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    ydoethur said:

    Jezza dominating the newspaper front pages this morning.

    But not in a good way.

    The question is whether it will shift votes. I'm not convinced that it will.

    Interesting to hear BBC radio went with his admission in tax rises for ordinary people. That, I think, is where the danger lies for Labour - both because nobody likes paying more tax, and because they have just admitted lying in their manifesto. I can certainly see that shifting votes.
    Eldest Granddaughter (early 30's) has changed jobs and moved from East to Mid-Yorks. And all of a sudden, from being Lib/Lab she's become enthusiastic about Labour and particularly about Corbyn.
    I haven't, of course, spoken to her this morning; may be that she'll phone her Grannie sometime today, and I'll have the chance to ask her.
    "Twill also be interesting to talk to her brother and sister-in-law when we see them on Sunday.
    Have to admit that while I was swinging towards Labour form LD (over nuclear weapons) anti-semitism would swing me back again.
    From a Tory campaigning point of view, the purpose of the non-stop AS stories is primarily to prevent tactical LD to Lab switching and ensure a split anti Tory vote. So it seems to be working.
    (I am referring to why it is all over the Tory supporting newspapers, not why the Jewish community are complaining about it - their concerns are valid but lots of people have valid concerns that the newspapers don't plaster all over their front pages for days on end in the midst of an election campaign).
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    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    It’s not really a tax rise though is it? They get a tax break at the moment, taking it away isn’t a tax rise from my POV.

    I don’t think taking tax credits away was a tax rise either.

    I can see what the perception might be but I don’t feel it’s a rise if I’m honest

    If you really believe that, may interest you in a wonderful bridge I happen to have spare crossing the Thames....

    Really? You think people are this stupid?
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,350

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:
    The reporting on this is terrible. Life expectancy is increasing. Expectations of improvements in life expectancy are being trimmed back. This paper, actually linked to in the Guardian’s awful report, is clear:

    https://www.actuaries.org.uk/news-and-insights/media-centre/media-releases-and-statements/longer-term-influences-driving-lower-life-expectancy-projections

    This more recent paper gives the same message. The truth is disappointing enough without shoddy reporting as well:

    https://www.theactuary.com/news/2019/10/life-expectancy-gains-in-uk-among-worst-in-developed-world/
    I am a long way from being a mathematician but the level of dyscalculia in those who choose journalism as a career is a major problem and results in so much nonsense being published. It also means politicians of all stripes get away with so much rubbish.
    "dyscalculia"
    Word of the campaign.
    Bit of a cheat. My eldest suffers from it. She describes how she cannot remember numbers and things like tables of figures just seem to swim in front of her, very similar to the reading problems of the much better known dyslexia. It is a real challenge to operating in the modern world but journalism or politics seems to be the answer.
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,736
    Pulpstar said:

    In fact Bloomberg is even older lol, he'll be 78 in February. Same age as Sanders.

    Must be in the new Saga brochure section: "run to become president"
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,350

    On topic, I’m on the other side of the bet to Mike on this. There is nothing about American politics that suggests what is needed is another septuagenarian New York billionaire. Michael Bloomberg is known but not liked. He’s got no momentum. He has very questionable drive given he’s pulled out more times in the past than a good Catholic. All he has is money. That seems most unlikely to be enough.

    He's sound on climate change, guns and beating Trump.
    I don't really mind who wins the nomination, they'll all be infinitely better than Trump. Is Biden really the Democrats best chance of beating Trump?
    If I was an American I could see myself voting for someone like him.
    Which is probably conclusive evidence that he has no chance.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,082
    edited November 2019
    I spoke to a sitting Labour councillor in Newcastle yesterday who wasn’t too confident about the County Durham ‘marginals’...
    She’s been canvassing in them.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,321

    Now this is a story I can comment on with some authority. David is one of my partners. Anyone who thinks that David is not completely his own man has never met him.
    Or alternatively, the CE has a political agenda of her own to push. I find it hard to believe she has never met him.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137

    I spoke to a sitting Labour councillor in Newcastle yesterday who wasn’t too confident about the County Durham ‘marginals’...
    She’s been canvassing in them.

    Is Pidcock's a "marginal"?
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,736
    Burgon on Radio Four trying to defend the undefendable re: WASPI bung. Robinson say`s the LP are getting affected women to provide some personal information and register on the LP website - not to register for any "compensation" payment, but to enable the Labour Party to target this cohort for their vote (especially in marginal seats I`m betting).
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,321
    edited November 2019

    I spoke to a sitting Labour councillor in Newcastle yesterday who wasn’t too confident about the County Durham ‘marginals’...
    She’s been canvassing in them.

    There are marginals in COUNTY DURHAM?
    OK, Bishop Auckland, and maybe Durham itself. But for the rest? If they’re marginal at the moment pile on Jo Swinson as next LOTO.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,785
    edited November 2019
    DavidL said:

    It’s not really a tax rise though is it? They get a tax break at the moment, taking it away isn’t a tax rise from my POV.

    I don’t think taking tax credits away was a tax rise either.

    I can see what the perception might be but I don’t feel it’s a rise if I’m honest

    When that radical socialist Osborne took away all of my personal allowance and my right to Child Benefit these were tax rises, believe me. They were tax rises because as a result I had to pay much larger lump sums to HMRC twice a year.
    The idea that it is only a tax rise when the actual rate is changed is frankly absurd. Even Corbyn is not that stupid. He is dishonest though.
    You wonder whether Labour thought this through and someone who thought “married tax allowance discriminates against co-habitees - end discrimination!” without working out how many losers there would be.
    On Waspi Toenails gave Burgon a torrid time on R4 “ Why should Theresa May get £22,000? And who will pay?”
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,791
    Rift in the shadow cabinet as defence spokesperson Nia Griffith calls for Jeremy Corbyn to apologise.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,321
    edited November 2019
    Stocky said:

    Burgon on Radio Four trying to defend the undefendable re: WASPI bung. Robinson say`s the LP are getting affected women to provide some personal information and register on the LP website - not to register for any "compensation" payment, but to enable the Labour Party to target this cohort for their vote (especially in marginal seats I`m betting).

    What I cannot understand is how anyone could be so desperate as to hire him as a solicitor.
    I wouldn’t trust him to get planning permission for a porch.
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,736
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    PeterC said:

    Is the new Vanilla layout a fault to be rectified or someone's idea of an upgrade?

    What I have found, if it is of any help, is that if you write with no spacings between your paragraphs then they come out looking relatively normal. If you give them the normal extra line they become absurdly spaced out elongating the contributions to the point they become hard to read.
    Yeah, that seems to help but Vanilla is a real mess, with the comments not visible on the original site on chrome, the nested comments being visible as ghosts, and the extra line being inserted every paragraph.
    When I hear the word software upgrade, I reach for my gun.
    I can live with the gaps, but what really irritates me is the nested comments. I much prefer it linear, like before.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,082

    I spoke to a sitting Labour councillor in Newcastle yesterday who wasn’t too confident about the County Durham ‘marginals’...
    She’s been canvassing in them.

    Is Pidcock's a "marginal"?
    I didn’t press her further on it for more details. I was in a rush. I’m hoping to speak to her again later in the week...
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,791
    ydoethur said:

    I spoke to a sitting Labour councillor in Newcastle yesterday who wasn’t too confident about the County Durham ‘marginals’...
    She’s been canvassing in them.

    There are marginals in COUNTY DURHAM?
    OK, Bishop Auckland, and maybe Durham itself. But for the rest? If they’re marginal at the moment pile on Jo Swinson as next LOTO.
    Darlington, Sedgefield, NW Durham. Hartlepool used to be in Durham I think.
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    paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461

    It’s interesting that this is now the most read item on the BBC site.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50567979
    Many people may now be motivated to watch the interview which is not to Labours advantage.

    Corbyn's admissions opens up so many attack lines. The primary one for me is that he wouldn't have the £58 billion for the WASPIs. Where would be get it?Taxing the billionaires? Forget it - they will have moved their billions within an hour of the exit poll. Most likely it will be either pension funds, or the means that pension funds have to sustain their funds. He will either rob them directly, or tax the company profits and crash the value of shares.
    Either way, by trying to fix an injustice to one group of pensioners, he will cause hardship to all of them.
    Or more likely of course, the WASPI women will get fobbed off with a promise - a Govt. bond. Because that isn't Govt. debt, is it Labour? *slaps forehead in despair*
    Perceived/affected injustice. There is no real injustice.
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    ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    It was interesting to note last night that Mr Corbyn’s knowledge of what Government Bonds are and how they operate is sparse to say the least. To learn from him that issuing Bonds is not the same as issuing debt was a revelation. I wonder if economists are taking note of Mr Corbyns radical new economic theory. I predict that they aren’t.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,321
    Andy_JS said:

    ydoethur said:

    I spoke to a sitting Labour councillor in Newcastle yesterday who wasn’t too confident about the County Durham ‘marginals’...
    She’s been canvassing in them.

    There are marginals in COUNTY DURHAM?
    OK, Bishop Auckland, and maybe Durham itself. But for the rest? If they’re marginal at the moment pile on Jo Swinson as next LOTO.
    Darlington, Sedgefield, NW Durham. Hartlepool used to be in Durham I think.
    When was the last time the Tories seriously challenged across this whole area (not just took the odd seat)? I’m guessing it was 1931.
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    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,364
    Andy_JS said:

    Rift in the shadow cabinet as defence spokesperson Nia Griffith calls for Jeremy Corbyn to apologise.

    The difficulties Corbyn found himself in last night are all self inflicted. Let him squirm . He is a shit of the first order.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,082
    I think in reality only Bish will fall.
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    148grss148grss Posts: 3,712

    Why is anyone surprised at Corbyn's equivocation on the anti-/Semitism issue.

    To ultra left wing socialists there is a simple equation.
    All Capitalists are evil
    All Jews are Capitalists
    Therefore...…. work it out for yourselves.

    Are you saying this is leftist logic, or do you believe the statement "All Jews are Capitalists"? Because, as a very left wing person, I am obviously aware that the academia behind socialism wouldn't be possible without the Jewish community, and indeed, the far right make the exact opposite argument with the conspiracy theory that socialism is a Jewish plot to destroy capitalism and the West...
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    nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    The marriage tax allowance change is an own goal which really wasn’t needed .

    The change doesn’t really bring in that much money anyway and rubbishes Labours no increases for 95% of the population. And I’m saying this as a Labour supporter .

    Did Labour really think they could slip this into their grey book and no one would find out ? I do feel the wheels are coming off at the moment and Labour really need some major gaffe from Johnson otherwise I can’t see anything other than at least a decent majority for the Tories .
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    eekeek Posts: 25,009
    Andy_JS said:

    ydoethur said:

    I spoke to a sitting Labour councillor in Newcastle yesterday who wasn’t too confident about the County Durham ‘marginals’...
    She’s been canvassing in them.

    There are marginals in COUNTY DURHAM?
    OK, Bishop Auckland, and maybe Durham itself. But for the rest? If they’re marginal at the moment pile on Jo Swinson as next LOTO.
    Darlington, Sedgefield, NW Durham. Hartlepool used to be in Durham I think.
    The most marginal is Bishop Auckland and that is probably gone to the Tories.

    Darlington is likely to be close or even lost but I missed the first set of Labour canvassers as they came on Saturday afternoon.

    Postal votes in Darlington have not yet arrived so that may also have a slight impact.
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,736
    ydoethur said:

    It’s not really a tax rise though is it? They get a tax break at the moment, taking it away isn’t a tax rise from my POV.

    I don’t think taking tax credits away was a tax rise either.

    I can see what the perception might be but I don’t feel it’s a rise if I’m honest

    The changes to taxes on dividends would clobber anyone with a private pension as well.
    But the key problem for Labour is the admission they did not tell the truth in their manifesto.
    I posted on this before: a couple with, say, £100k in ISAs and £200k, say, in pension plans could be generating £10k pa in dividend income.
    One would hope that ISAs and pensions would be exempt from Labour`s plans but I don`t think this has been confirmed.
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    Jezza dominating the newspaper front pages this morning.

    But not in a good way.

    The question is whether it will shift votes. I'm not convinced that it will.

    It won’t. What will is focussing in Labour’s economic and tax plans where I suspect they are having some minor successes in fooling some of the people.

    The main effect of the anti-semitism story is taking up another news cycle, and thus denying the Labour campaign the oxygen of publicity which may stall its momentum.
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    nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    Andy_JS said:
    Inequality in America is truly insane.
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    Torsten Bell on R4 pointing out that the WASPI bung is more than twice the extra Labour are proposing for the NHS each year in this parliament.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137

    I spoke to a sitting Labour councillor in Newcastle yesterday who wasn’t too confident about the County Durham ‘marginals’...
    She’s been canvassing in them.

    Is Pidcock's a "marginal"?
    I didn’t press her further on it for more details. I was in a rush. I’m hoping to speak to her again later in the week...
    Ta. Useful insight into betting, if an insider thinks these seats really are in play.
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    148grss148grss Posts: 3,712
    Bloomberg will not win the nomination, and I think his entry makes it easier for Sanders and Warren. In a recent poll only 19% of Dems wanted Bloomberg to enter the race, let alone support him. And with his past dalliances as a Republican, and his money, he makes all of Warren and Sanders arguments for them, whilst making people think twice about wasting their money on Biden or Buttigeig. Buttigeig also has no hope of getting the nomination.
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    On topic, even if Bloomberg had a chance he’s entered this race about 2-3 months too late.

    So I could see him spaffing a lot of money on Super Tuesday, achieving disappointing results and then pulling out.

    Maybe his main effect will be to simply challenge some of the other contenders from the moderate centre, which may at least add another dimension to the debates (if he gets into them).
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    paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461
    ydoethur said:

    I spoke to a sitting Labour councillor in Newcastle yesterday who wasn’t too confident about the County Durham ‘marginals’...
    She’s been canvassing in them.

    There are marginals in COUNTY DURHAM?
    OK, Bishop Auckland, and maybe Durham itself. But for the rest? If they’re marginal at the moment pile on Jo Swinson as next LOTO.
    Sedgefield might be close.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137

    It’s interesting that this is now the most read item on the BBC site.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50567979
    Many people may now be motivated to watch the interview which is not to Labours advantage.

    Corbyn's admissions opens up so many attack lines. The primary one for me is that he wouldn't have the £58 billion for the WASPIs. Where would be get it?Taxing the billionaires? Forget it - they will have moved their billions within an hour of the exit poll. Most likely it will be either pension funds, or the means that pension funds have to sustain their funds. He will either rob them directly, or tax the company profits and crash the value of shares.
    Either way, by trying to fix an injustice to one group of pensioners, he will cause hardship to all of them.
    Or more likely of course, the WASPI women will get fobbed off with a promise - a Govt. bond. Because that isn't Govt. debt, is it Labour? *slaps forehead in despair*
    Perceived/affected injustice. There is no real injustice.
    I was trying to be kind to Labour.
    Their finances in the Manifesto are a rancid midden.
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    There’s a link (which I think Alastair might have spotted) here between some older women’s dislike/distrust of Boris Johnson, and the policy to pledge the WASPI bung.

    Labour is trying to exploit that by inserting a crowbar into that crack, and levering it open.
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    148grss148grss Posts: 3,712

    I spoke to a sitting Labour councillor in Newcastle yesterday who wasn’t too confident about the County Durham ‘marginals’...
    She’s been canvassing in them.

    Is Pidcock's a "marginal"?
    I didn’t press her further on it for more details. I was in a rush. I’m hoping to speak to her again later in the week...
    Ta. Useful insight into betting, if an insider thinks these seats really are in play.
    I was chatting to someone who has been canvassing in Altringham and Sale, and they were saying they didn't think it felt like a safe Tory seat anymore, but I'm not sure I believe it will move anywhere else; the LD swing would have to be massive and/or Labour would have to hold it together and come up the middle...
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137

    There’s a link (which I think Alastair might have spotted) here between some older women’s dislike/distrust of Boris Johnson, and the policy to pledge the WASPI bung.

    Labour is trying to exploit that by inserting a crowbar into that crack, and levering it open.

    At the £58 billion expense of destroying their offering to everybody else.
    A late pledge by Boris to cut the 6% tax rate on student loans would more than counter it. Not just with the young going to uni, but with their parents too.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,350

    It was interesting to note last night that Mr Corbyn’s knowledge of what Government Bonds are and how they operate is sparse to say the least. To learn from him that issuing Bonds is not the same as issuing debt was a revelation. I wonder if economists are taking note of Mr Corbyns radical new economic theory. I predict that they aren’t.

    He is completely inarticulate when discussing money and always has been. I think that he thinks his disinterest in such mundane things is a sign of his own virtue as opposed to a demonstration of his own incompetence.
    What I think he was trying to say was that the bonds issued for nationalisation would be largely self funding because the State would take the profits of the businesses that they have acquired which would allow them to pay the interest on the bonds.
    There are a series of assumptions built into this which could be usefully unpacked. Firstly, there is the assumption that the bond markets are willing to lend a Corbyn led government £0.5trn. Secondly, there is the assumption that they would do so at current rates. Thirdly, there is the assumption that despite a rapid deterioration in our creditworthiness it would be possible to roll over these bonds at similar rates in the future. Fourthly, there is the assumption that these businesses would in fact remain profitable in public hands when politicians face pressure if they try to increase water bills etc. or reduce unemployment by getting these businesses to employ more people.
    The whole policy is 1970s redux. It didn't work. It hasn't worked anywhere else. It won't work here. It's just stupid. Really, really stupid.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,321
    edited November 2019

    I think in reality only Bish will fall.

    NW Durham I suppose might be in play due to local factors. Labour’s sitting MP is not especially impressive and she has actually spent barely half of her time representing her constituents since being elected. Maternity leave is acceptable - swanning off to Italy on holiday and missing a series of key votes on welfare rather less so. There have also been rumours her local party dislike her.
    But it’s still hard to imagine that Labour are nervous about their vote in County Durham.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,610

    It’s not really a tax rise though is it? They get a tax break at the moment, taking it away isn’t a tax rise from my POV.

    I don’t think taking tax credits away was a tax rise either.

    I can see what the perception might be but I don’t feel it’s a rise if I’m honest

    They are paying more tax than before, it's a tax rise. Cutting tax credits is a benefits cut, not a tax rise.

    The AS stuff won't hurt Labour, this will and the lack of an answer on where the £58bn comes from.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,898

    It’s not really a tax rise though is it? They get a tax break at the moment, taking it away isn’t a tax rise from my POV.

    I don’t think taking tax credits away was a tax rise either.

    I can see what the perception might be but I don’t feel it’s a rise if I’m honest

    The way to tell is whether labour would call it a tax rise if it were a tory proposal. Which they certainly would.
This discussion has been closed.