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    camelcamel Posts: 815
    I have no idea what this means. Is it a Numberwang?
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,498
    MikeL said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Labours manifesto seems to be going down like a bowl of cold sick in Bolton on Question Time?

    Mildly encouraging if true. One does rather gather the impression that QT audiences are disproportionately comprised of lefties.

    Any decent small c-conservative would be safely at home with a cup of tea, or perhaps cocoa, if not already in bed by this time of night.
    I’m not watching but just received a message from someone who couldn’t believe how much people seemed to like the Labour policies on QT.

    Who knows?
    Of course Labour's policies are popular. Who wouldn't want free everything? With the media repeating endlessly that 95% of people won't pay anything.

    The Conservatives have a massive job on their hands getting it through to people that the vast majority will be paying more - both in higher taxes and also (and perhaps more importantly) in higher interest rates.

    How many 1st time buyers are looking forward to going into negative equity? Yet most people appear blissfully unaware of what is coming if Lab wins.
    I have a Corbynista friend cheerfully spending the money her husband earns buying up property to rent out. Very puzzling behaviour.
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    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    edited November 2019
    So @GreenMachine - you put up a Norn Iron header and all you get it cricket, Trump and the equally neurotic English parties.

    :D

    Personally I would stop MLA's pay immediately and tell any of them that if they are not back at work by a given date that they will be disbarred from public office for life
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,901

    Pulpstar said:

    I don't get Labour's plan to tax private health at 20% - it's already included as an employee benefit in P11D so no change for basic rate taxpayers and for those above the 40% threshold it'll be a tax reduction ?!

    Seems to be set to encourage private health insurance takeup by companies. Unless I'm missing something here...

    Given the inattention to detail of our politicians its inevitable that many of the manifesto plans will have the opposite effect that they are supposed to.
    True, though we all have a touching hope that party wonks behind the scenes ensure the policies do what its supposed to, even if terrible.
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    So have Cameron, Osborne, Clegg, Cable etc have anything to say about all the student bad debt that the ONS is now dumping on the government borrowing ?

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/bulletins/publicsectorfinances/october2019#developments-in-public-sector-finance-statistics-september-2019
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    camelcamel Posts: 815

    So @GreenMachine - you put up a Norn Iron header and all you get it cricket, Trump and the equally neurotic English parties.

    :D

    Personally I would stop MLA's pay immediately and tell any of them that if they are not back at work by a given date that they will be disbarred from public office for life

    Weak effort by the English in North Island.
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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    camel said:

    Xtrain said:

    I need you all to forget that I once tipped Richard Burgon as Corbyn's successor at 100/1

    Oh please God let TSE win that bet.
    Burgon is a mystery. I assume Burgon the Labour Frontbencher is in fact an imposter, as the real Richard Burgon's wikipedia entry assures me that he is a Cambridge graduate.
    Is there another Cambridge? In Cloud Cuckoo Land?
    Are we sure he wasn't at Anglia Ruskin? I don't wish to besmirch that fine institution, but he is like living proof that A Levels are getting easier.
    Your inference clearly besmirches Anglia Ruskin. I've never heard of it but I don't doubt your inference.
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    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 7,053
    Con gain from Labour in Cardiff on about a 4% swing
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    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I don't get Labour's plan to tax private health at 20% - it's already included as an employee benefit in P11D so no change for basic rate taxpayers and for those above the 40% threshold it'll be a tax reduction ?!

    Seems to be set to encourage private health insurance takeup by companies. Unless I'm missing something here...

    Given the inattention to detail of our politicians its inevitable that many of the manifesto plans will have the opposite effect that they are supposed to.
    True, though we all have a touching hope that party wonks behind the scenes ensure the policies do what its supposed to, even if terrible.
    I suspect they spend their time in their twatter echo chambers.
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    camel said:

    So @GreenMachine - you put up a Norn Iron header and all you get it cricket, Trump and the equally neurotic English parties.

    :D

    Personally I would stop MLA's pay immediately and tell any of them that if they are not back at work by a given date that they will be disbarred from public office for life

    Weak effort by the English in North Island.
    ???

    I am not English
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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Pulpstar said:

    I don't get Labour's plan to tax private health at 20% - it's already included as an employee benefit in P11D so no change for basic rate taxpayers and for those above the 40% threshold it'll be a tax reduction ?!

    Seems to be set to encourage private health insurance takeup by companies. Unless I'm missing something here...

    Are the Americans involved?
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    camel said:

    I have no idea what this means. Is it a Numberwang?
    Its a system designed to kill Scottish nationalism and to ensure SLAB is in power for ever.
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,498
    ON TOPIC - NI reminds me of the prisoners dilemma. Everyone does best if they co-operate (elect the UUP/SDLP). But if community X elects its co-operator and community Y elects its hardliner then community Y extracts all the sweeties. But if both communities elect their hardliners then no-one gets any sweeties.
    It is very difficult to get into the box of everyone co-operating.
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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    egg said:

    Banterman said:

    In 2017, Labour manifesto turned heads. Due to May's utter uselessness they stayed turned.

    2019, it looks like the overall view is the Labour manifesto is fantasy bullshit, which they have zero competence to deliver.

    Surely Boris will come up with something popular and plausible on Sunday.

    If Boris cuts taxes with borrowing and funds giveaways with brexit bonus he will come out less plausible.

    And claims Boris campaigns better than May is laughable so far.
    You have a short memory, although it is a contest of the truly awful.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137
    edited November 2019
    Another horror show for the Labour vote.... 23.4% down to 10.6%
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,498

    camel said:

    So @GreenMachine - you put up a Norn Iron header and all you get it cricket, Trump and the equally neurotic English parties.

    :D

    Personally I would stop MLA's pay immediately and tell any of them that if they are not back at work by a given date that they will be disbarred from public office for life

    Weak effort by the English in North Island.
    ???

    I am not English
    And that's why Jack Leach and not you is batting at 10 for England against New Zealand in North Island.
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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    Right, anecdata:
    #1 - out in the week with some friends from school from two and a half decades ago. Politics little discussed apart from that one friend now in Guildford favours the Lib Dems as they are Remainiest. However, what struck me was the utter confidence of these people - almost everyone either setting up in business on their own, or buying a bigger house, or buying a second home. Clearly no-one cowed by the prospect of Brexit and/or Corbyn (delete whichever you like to fear most). One of these people was wearing a 'JC for PM' t-shirt two years ago, though his enthusiasm seems to have waned (particularly given that he is one looking to buy a holiday home). Will the Labour manifesto focus any of these minds? Probably not - a breezy confidence that all will be fine and a general unlikelihood of voting Conservative amongst this cohort will overcome that, I think.

    #2 - discussing politics with my mother-in-law. She and most of her friends/family voted Remain but the negotiations have hardened attitudes, and are now firmly in the leave camp. Feeling is that MPs are playing silly buggers and that Boris should be given a chance with a majority. Particular scorn for local MP Antoinette Sandbach who claimed to be pro-leave while consistently voting to make leave impossible and who is being somewhat mendacious with her election literature (though I suspect no more than most). Also thinks (as one with connections to Catalonia) that Spain is behaving disgracefully and finds it alarming that our continental brethren are jailing people for holding referenda.

    Based on which: Guildford LD gain, Eddisbury Con hold.

    Yep, the age divide. Young Remania, Old Leaverstan.

    I think your Guildford friends are right, though they will not like the cultural cringe of Brexit, they will remain prosperous. Sunderland will enjoy the sovereignty of the dole queue.
    You've been telling us that for 40 months.
    It's Foxy. You must have seen his adverts.
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    PaulMPaulM Posts: 613
    Peter Robinson's wife is Iris Robinson

    Mary Robinson is the former Irish President.

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    camelcamel Posts: 815

    camel said:

    So @GreenMachine - you put up a Norn Iron header and all you get it cricket, Trump and the equally neurotic English parties.

    :D

    Personally I would stop MLA's pay immediately and tell any of them that if they are not back at work by a given date that they will be disbarred from public office for life

    Weak effort by the English in North Island.
    ???

    I am not English
    You referred to cricket. England are playing (badly) a game on North Island, NZ.

    It was the weakest of weak puns and I apologize.

    I guessed you weren't English, whar with the faded Mexican flag and all :)
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,732
    Roger said:

    Foxy said:

    nunu2 said:

    The people of Bolton have not been won over by Corbyn

    On the basis of this QT, they are poised to elect Chuka and the SNP.

    Who is the woman from the Torygraph, she looks terrified?
    A pretty pisspoor panel, but she does look a little over stimulated.
    There's something anachronistic about Johnson's new Tory Party which hasn't been obvious since the early days of Thatcher. A lot depends on the zeitgeist. For all that the polls are saying this is by no means a popular government
    I think this a deeply unpopular government that is one of the results of pitching "people against parliament". It is likely to get a stay of execution because of the appalling state of the Labour party, but not for long. The stench of incompetence and mendacity of the Tories cannot be covered up for long.
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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    Pulpstar said:

    I don't get Labour's plan to tax private health at 20% - it's already included as an employee benefit in P11D so no change for basic rate taxpayers and for those above the 40% threshold it'll be a tax reduction ?!

    Seems to be set to encourage private health insurance takeup by companies. Unless I'm missing something here...

    Given the inattention to detail of our politicians its inevitable that many of the manifesto plans will have the opposite effect that they are supposed to.
    I agree. None of them do detail but Labour did put DA on view today. I couldn't see whether she had wheels.
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    Conservative GAIN Llanishen (Cardiff) from Labour with 43% (+6) of votes.

    LAB were 2nd on 35% (-1), LDM 3rd on 11% (+3), PLC 4th on 6% (-3), GRN 5th on 3% (-3) & IND 6th on 2% (+2).
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    NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,311

    He truly is a king prat amongst a cohort of prats
    Joint equal - Barry Gardiner, Dawn Butler, Diane Abbott, Laura Pidcock

    The only ones vaguely impressive are Long Bailey and Rayner.
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    Another horror show for the Labour vote.... 23.4% down to 10.6%
    They are going to get trounced in Scotland.
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    marke0903 said:

    Conservative GAIN Llanishen (Cardiff) from Labour with 43% (+6) of votes.

    LAB were 2nd on 35% (-1), LDM 3rd on 11% (+3), PLC 4th on 6% (-3), GRN 5th on 3% (-3) & IND 6th on 2% (+2).

    Good result for the conservatives
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    JasonJason Posts: 1,614
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    Cookie said:

    camel said:

    So @GreenMachine - you put up a Norn Iron header and all you get it cricket, Trump and the equally neurotic English parties.

    :D

    Personally I would stop MLA's pay immediately and tell any of them that if they are not back at work by a given date that they will be disbarred from public office for life

    Weak effort by the English in North Island.
    ???

    I am not English
    And that's why Jack Leach and not you is batting at 10 for England against New Zealand in North Island.
    Who is Jack Leach? I have never heard of him
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    nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    marke0903 said:

    Conservative GAIN Llanishen (Cardiff) from Labour with 43% (+6) of votes.

    LAB were 2nd on 35% (-1), LDM 3rd on 11% (+3), PLC 4th on 6% (-3), GRN 5th on 3% (-3) & IND 6th on 2% (+2).

    If Tories are up 6 then they had 37 before and Labour were on 36 so the figures seem wrong or am I missing something .
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    eggegg Posts: 1,749
    Cookie said:

    egg said:

    Banterman said:

    In 2017, Labour manifesto turned heads. Due to May's utter uselessness they stayed turned.

    2019, it looks like the overall view is the Labour manifesto is fantasy bullshit, which they have zero competence to deliver.

    Surely Boris will come up with something popular and plausible on Sunday.

    If Boris cuts taxes with borrowing and funds giveaways with brexit bonus he will come out less plausible.

    And claims Boris campaigns better than May is laughable so far.
    Egg, I think you might be misremembering just quite how useless May was at campaigning.
    No. She came across as prime ministerial and would have stood out in this crowd. May was all round more experienced and better politician than Johnson. Despite the hype we haven’t seen anything that much better from Johnson so far. Evidence is he has so far got his own brexit deal and tax cut wrong on the hoof, some huge error has to be a real fear by his handlers.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Jason said:
    Yes it is
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Another horror show for the Labour vote.... 23.4% down to 10.6%
    They are going to get trounced in Scotland.
    Amen
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,498

    Cookie said:

    camel said:

    So @GreenMachine - you put up a Norn Iron header and all you get it cricket, Trump and the equally neurotic English parties.

    :D

    Personally I would stop MLA's pay immediately and tell any of them that if they are not back at work by a given date that they will be disbarred from public office for life

    Weak effort by the English in North Island.
    ???

    I am not English
    And that's why Jack Leach and not you is batting at 10 for England against New Zealand in North Island.
    Who is Jack Leach? I have never heard of him
    He is England's No. 10 batsman and spin bowler. Notable chiefly for a heroic one not out against Australia this summer, effected with a degree of spectacle-cleaning not seen since Eddie Edwards in the 1988 winter Olympics.

    Bev, you're not doing very well at steering the conversation away from cricket! You should come along to Old Trafford next summer (ISTR you are in Altrincham?)
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    eggegg Posts: 1,749

    He truly is a king prat amongst a cohort of prats
    Joint equal - Barry Gardiner, Dawn Butler, Diane Abbott, Laura Pidcock

    The only ones vaguely impressive are Long Bailey and Rayner.
    Rayner completely off putting on today, er yesterday.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Foxy said:

    nunu2 said:

    The people of Bolton have not been won over by Corbyn

    On the basis of this QT, they are poised to elect Chuka and the SNP.

    Who is the woman from the Torygraph, she looks terrified?
    A pretty pisspoor panel, but she does look a little over stimulated.
    There's something anachronistic about Johnson's new Tory Party which hasn't been obvious since the early days of Thatcher. A lot depends on the zeitgeist. For all that the polls are saying this is by no means a popular government
    I think this a deeply unpopular government that is one of the results of pitching "people against parliament". It is likely to get a stay of execution because of the appalling state of the Labour party, but not for long. The stench of incompetence and mendacity of the Tories cannot be covered up for long.
    Fair enough, but can we consign the marxists to the scrap heap of history first.

    I like my local Lib Dem candidate - he would get my vote except the marxists must be kept out.
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    JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    edited November 2019
    egg said:

    Cookie said:

    egg said:

    Banterman said:

    In 2017, Labour manifesto turned heads. Due to May's utter uselessness they stayed turned.

    2019, it looks like the overall view is the Labour manifesto is fantasy bullshit, which they have zero competence to deliver.

    Surely Boris will come up with something popular and plausible on Sunday.

    If Boris cuts taxes with borrowing and funds giveaways with brexit bonus he will come out less plausible.

    And claims Boris campaigns better than May is laughable so far.
    Egg, I think you might be misremembering just quite how useless May was at campaigning.
    No. She came across as prime ministerial and would have stood out in this crowd. May was all round more experienced and better politician than Johnson. Despite the hype we haven’t seen anything that much better from Johnson so far. Evidence is he has so far got his own brexit deal and tax cut wrong on the hoof, some huge error has to be a real fear by his handlers.
    Trouble with May nobody liked her. Everyone knows Boris is a risk, he would readily admit that himself, but that will appeal to more then repel I reckon. He does reach the parts that other Tory leaders could only have dreamt of.

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    marke0903 said:

    Conservative GAIN Llanishen (Cardiff) from Labour with 43% (+6) of votes.

    LAB were 2nd on 35% (-1), LDM 3rd on 11% (+3), PLC 4th on 6% (-3), GRN 5th on 3% (-3) & IND 6th on 2% (+2).

    That's in Cardiff North constituency so both marginal and Remain.
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    nico67 said:

    marke0903 said:

    Conservative GAIN Llanishen (Cardiff) from Labour with 43% (+6) of votes.

    LAB were 2nd on 35% (-1), LDM 3rd on 11% (+3), PLC 4th on 6% (-3), GRN 5th on 3% (-3) & IND 6th on 2% (+2).

    If Tories are up 6 then they had 37 before and Labour were on 36 so the figures seem wrong or am I missing something .
    Multi member ward:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llanishen_(electoral_ward)
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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Xtrain said:
    Blimey - this has cut through, and how.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    camel said:

    Xtrain said:

    I need you all to forget that I once tipped Richard Burgon as Corbyn's successor at 100/1

    Oh please God let TSE win that bet.
    Burgon is a mystery. I assume Burgon the Labour Frontbencher is in fact an imposter, as the real Richard Burgon's wikipedia entry assures me that he is a Cambridge graduate.
    Is there another Cambridge? In Cloud Cuckoo Land?
    Are we sure he wasn't at Anglia Ruskin? I don't wish to besmirch that fine institution, but he is like living proof that A Levels are getting easier.
    Your inference clearly besmirches Anglia Ruskin. I've never heard of it but I don't doubt your inference.
    My son got a first there - he will not be happy with you :-)
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    JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    Catastrophic figures for Labour. Those are the figures the sitting government should be displaying, not the opposition.
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    eggegg Posts: 1,749
    Jason said:

    egg said:

    Cookie said:

    egg said:

    Banterman said:

    In 2017, Labour manifesto turned heads. Due to May's utter uselessness they stayed turned.

    2019, it looks like the overall view is the Labour manifesto is fantasy bullshit, which they have zero competence to deliver.

    Surely Boris will come up with something popular and plausible on Sunday.

    If Boris cuts taxes with borrowing and funds giveaways with brexit bonus he will come out less plausible.

    And claims Boris campaigns better than May is laughable so far.
    Egg, I think you might be misremembering just quite how useless May was at campaigning.
    No. She came across as prime ministerial and would have stood out in this crowd. May was all round more experienced and better politician than Johnson. Despite the hype we haven’t seen anything that much better from Johnson so far. Evidence is he has so far got his own brexit deal and tax cut wrong on the hoof, some huge error has to be a real fear by his handlers.
    Trouble with May nobody liked her. Everyone knows Boris is a risk, he would readily admit that himself, but that will appeal to more then repel I reckon. He does reach the parts that other Tory leaders could only have dreamt of.

    Really? 🤔
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    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    camel said:

    So @GreenMachine - you put up a Norn Iron header and all you get it cricket, Trump and the equally neurotic English parties.

    :D

    Personally I would stop MLA's pay immediately and tell any of them that if they are not back at work by a given date that they will be disbarred from public office for life

    Weak effort by the English in North Island.
    ???

    I am not English
    And that's why Jack Leach and not you is batting at 10 for England against New Zealand in North Island.
    Who is Jack Leach? I have never heard of him
    He is England's No. 10 batsman and spin bowler. Notable chiefly for a heroic one not out against Australia this summer, effected with a degree of spectacle-cleaning not seen since Eddie Edwards in the 1988 winter Olympics.

    Bev, you're not doing very well at steering the conversation away from cricket! You should come along to Old Trafford next summer (ISTR you are in Altrincham?)
    I actually lived next to Old Trafford for 8 years, but then I upgraded to Altricham :)
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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    He truly is a king prat amongst a cohort of prats
    Joint equal - Barry Gardiner, Dawn Butler, Diane Abbott, Laura Pidcock

    The only ones vaguely impressive are Long Bailey and Rayner.
    vaguely impressive as prats?
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    camelcamel Posts: 815

    Xtrain said:
    Blimey - this has cut through, and how.
    I wasn't expecting that - ouch.
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    Loxwood (Chichester) result:

    CON: 61.8% (+17.4)
    LDEM: 29.9% (-25.7)
    GRN: 7.7% (+7.7)
    PAT: 0.6% (+0.6)

    Conservative GAIN from Liberal Democrat.
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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    egg said:

    Cookie said:

    egg said:

    Banterman said:

    In 2017, Labour manifesto turned heads. Due to May's utter uselessness they stayed turned.

    2019, it looks like the overall view is the Labour manifesto is fantasy bullshit, which they have zero competence to deliver.

    Surely Boris will come up with something popular and plausible on Sunday.

    If Boris cuts taxes with borrowing and funds giveaways with brexit bonus he will come out less plausible.

    And claims Boris campaigns better than May is laughable so far.
    Egg, I think you might be misremembering just quite how useless May was at campaigning.
    No. She came across as prime ministerial and would have stood out in this crowd. May was all round more experienced and better politician than Johnson. Despite the hype we haven’t seen anything that much better from Johnson so far. Evidence is he has so far got his own brexit deal and tax cut wrong on the hoof, some huge error has to be a real fear by his handlers.
    Johnson doesn't hide.
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    I believe the change in votes in Scottish byelections is in comparison to the local elections of 2017:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Scottish_local_elections

    It should be remembered that SLAB did very badly in those.
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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Wow - this must be that rocket science everyone talks about.
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    He truly is a king prat amongst a cohort of prats
    Joint equal - Barry Gardiner, Dawn Butler, Diane Abbott, Laura Pidcock

    The only ones vaguely impressive are Long Bailey and Rayner.
    vaguely impressive as prats?
    Rayner is ok. She communicates quite effectively.

    Long Bailey, on the other hand....
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,732
    Floater said:

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Foxy said:

    nunu2 said:

    The people of Bolton have not been won over by Corbyn

    On the basis of this QT, they are poised to elect Chuka and the SNP.

    Who is the woman from the Torygraph, she looks terrified?
    A pretty pisspoor panel, but she does look a little over stimulated.
    There's something anachronistic about Johnson's new Tory Party which hasn't been obvious since the early days of Thatcher. A lot depends on the zeitgeist. For all that the polls are saying this is by no means a popular government
    I think this a deeply unpopular government that is one of the results of pitching "people against parliament". It is likely to get a stay of execution because of the appalling state of the Labour party, but not for long. The stench of incompetence and mendacity of the Tories cannot be covered up for long.
    Fair enough, but can we consign the marxists to the scrap heap of history first.

    I like my local Lib Dem candidate - he would get my vote except the marxists must be kept out.
    No problem. A LD vote is a safe vote. Swinson has stated that she will not support Corbyn and Davey's financial rectitude is chalk and cheese compared to McDonnell's financial incontinence.
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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    He truly is a king prat amongst a cohort of prats
    Joint equal - Barry Gardiner, Dawn Butler, Diane Abbott, Laura Pidcock

    The only ones vaguely impressive are Long Bailey and Rayner.
    vaguely impressive as prats?
    Rayner is ok. She communicates quite effectively.

    Long Bailey, on the other hand....
    This has turned into a Biggest Prat competition. For the record, I'm offering no prizes. I'll forward any suggestions to Enfield Southgate Labour Party.
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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Foxy said:

    Floater said:

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Foxy said:

    nunu2 said:

    The people of Bolton have not been won over by Corbyn

    On the basis of this QT, they are poised to elect Chuka and the SNP.

    Who is the woman from the Torygraph, she looks terrified?
    A pretty pisspoor panel, but she does look a little over stimulated.
    There's something anachronistic about Johnson's new Tory Party which hasn't been obvious since the early days of Thatcher. A lot depends on the zeitgeist. For all that the polls are saying this is by no means a popular government
    I think this a deeply unpopular government that is one of the results of pitching "people against parliament". It is likely to get a stay of execution because of the appalling state of the Labour party, but not for long. The stench of incompetence and mendacity of the Tories cannot be covered up for long.
    Fair enough, but can we consign the marxists to the scrap heap of history first.

    I like my local Lib Dem candidate - he would get my vote except the marxists must be kept out.
    No problem. A LD vote is a safe vote. Swinson has stated that she will not support Corbyn and Davey's financial rectitude is chalk and cheese compared to McDonnell's financial incontinence.
    I trust you had your fingers crossed when typing this so I commend your secretarial skills.
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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    camel said:

    Xtrain said:
    Blimey - this has cut through, and how.
    I wasn't expecting that - ouch.
    Why ouch?
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    camelcamel Posts: 815
    egg said:

    Cookie said:

    egg said:

    Banterman said:

    In 2017, Labour manifesto turned heads. Due to May's utter uselessness they stayed turned.

    2019, it looks like the overall view is the Labour manifesto is fantasy bullshit, which they have zero competence to deliver.

    Surely Boris will come up with something popular and plausible on Sunday.

    If Boris cuts taxes with borrowing and funds giveaways with brexit bonus he will come out less plausible.

    And claims Boris campaigns better than May is laughable so far.
    Egg, I think you might be misremembering just quite how useless May was at campaigning.
    No. She came across as prime ministerial and would have stood out in this crowd. May was all round more experienced and better politician than Johnson. Despite the hype we haven’t seen anything that much better from Johnson so far. Evidence is he has so far got his own brexit deal and tax cut wrong on the hoof, some huge error has to be a real fear by his handlers.
    I disagree with the bit about May being a better politician. She was/is hopelessly tin-eared and awkward, and her record of 'doing politics' is terrible. Utterly charmless, both with the people she needed to charm in Europe and the people she needed to charm at home. And appalling political judgement.

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    KeithJennerKeithJenner Posts: 99
    edited November 2019

    Wow - this must be that rocket science everyone talks about.
    As a fairly irregular visitor, and usually just to read, this is just the sort of comment that really puts off contributions.

    I make an observation, I’m not sure what your input did for you, but it does makes you look a bit of a tosser.
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    camelcamel Posts: 815

    camel said:

    Xtrain said:
    Blimey - this has cut through, and how.
    I wasn't expecting that - ouch.
    Why ouch?
    Scathing. Years ago Maureen Lipman and Jack Rosenthal used to be Labour royalty.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,851
    Xtrain said:
    Wonder if BT had to give permission to bring back Beatie? ;)
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    KeithJennerKeithJenner Posts: 99
    edited November 2019
    Just an observation about this site, which I used to use and post on quite a bit a few years ago. It used to be somewhere that you could come to and join in the conversation.

    I have made a few contributions in the last few days. I don’t expect people to agree with me, but I also don’t expect people to take the piss.
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    Nigelb said:

    The final sentence is a bit of a reach...

    It's suppose to say almost instead​ of all, I done it super quick.
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    WE DEMAND BETTER, WE DESERVE BETTER! WE’LL GET BETTER!

    And you want someone else to pay for it.

    What exactly do you mean?
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    ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    Telegraph has got article up saying that the Labour Manifesto means that dementia patients would pay up to 100K for their personal care.
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,498
    Foxy said:

    Floater said:

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Foxy said:

    nunu2 said:

    The people of Bolton have not been won over by Corbyn

    On the basis of this QT, they are poised to elect Chuka and the SNP.

    Who is the woman from the Torygraph, she looks terrified?
    A pretty pisspoor panel, but she does look a little over stimulated.
    There's something anachronistic about Johnson's new Tory Party which hasn't been obvious since the early days of Thatcher. A lot depends on the zeitgeist. For all that the polls are saying this is by no means a popular government
    I think this a deeply unpopular government that is one of the results of pitching "people against parliament". It is likely to get a stay of execution because of the appalling state of the Labour party, but not for long. The stench of incompetence and mendacity of the Tories cannot be covered up for long.
    Fair enough, but can we consign the marxists to the scrap heap of history first.

    I like my local Lib Dem candidate - he would get my vote except the marxists must be kept out.
    No problem. A LD vote is a safe vote. Swinson has stated that she will not support Corbyn and Davey's financial rectitude is chalk and cheese compared to McDonnell's financial incontinence.
    I wish I could believe it. But the LDs appear to believe in one thing and one thing only: British integration into the EU. They may choose other policy positions, but the EU is their one true belief, and they would put the devil himself into Downing Street for a sniff of a chance of cancelling Brexit. Do you remember Ed Davey leading a walkout of Lib Dem MPs so that Labour were able to pass theblegislation for the Lisbon Treaty without a referendum, despite what it had said in the LD manifesto? I'd love to believe that they were a party championing pragmatism and sensible investment. But if Corbyn offers them a sniff of a chance at cancelling Brexit I don't trust them not to put him in No. 10. It has become their whole reason for existence.
    That's the impression I get, anyway.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    marke0903 said:

    Loxwood (Chichester) result:

    CON: 61.8% (+17.4)
    LDEM: 29.9% (-25.7)
    GRN: 7.7% (+7.7)
    PAT: 0.6% (+0.6)

    Conservative GAIN from Liberal Democrat.

    WE need a thread on this one ;-)
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    WE DEMAND BETTER, WE DESERVE BETTER! WE’LL GET BETTER!

    And you want someone else to pay for it.

    What exactly do you mean?
    Northern Ireland is a net recipient of funding.

    Perhaps if that stopped you might have an incentive to sort yourselves out.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Telegraph has got article up saying that the Labour Manifesto means that dementia patients would pay up to 100K for their personal care.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/11/21/elderly-could-face-100000-labour-bill-care-homes-jeremy-corbyns/

    Dementia tax anyone?
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,498
    Floater said:

    marke0903 said:

    Loxwood (Chichester) result:

    CON: 61.8% (+17.4)
    LDEM: 29.9% (-25.7)
    GRN: 7.7% (+7.7)
    PAT: 0.6% (+0.6)

    Conservative GAIN from Liberal Democrat.

    WE need a thread on this one ;-)
    Any local knowledge on Loxwood? Remainia or Leavistan?
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    mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    camel said:

    Re. The North - for CorrectHorseBattery

    The big cities of the North vote Labour. As do the big cities of the South.

    Beyond that, across England and Wales you can pretty much map Labour to this map of UK coalfields, and it has little to do with North/South, other than the South isn't exactly coal country.

    http://furthr.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/CEjosBKVEAAe8pM.jpg

    Kent was. As I once had to explain to a friend at RSM Imperial.
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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    Wow - this must be that rocket science everyone talks about.
    As a fairly irregular visitor, and usually just to read, this is just the sort of comment that really puts off contributions.

    I make an observation, I’m not sure what your input did for you, but it does makes you look a bit of a tosser.
    oooo - it was actually deferential. You must be very thin skinned. You'll find it heavy going on here.
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    kle4 said:

    It seems like SF and DUP might lose a seat or two as this suggests, but will much change? What incentive is there for the groups to start working together again?

    It's only a matter of WHEN, and not if, SF and DUP won't be the largest parties.
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    Pulpstar said:

    Hopefully the non batshit (SDLP, Alliance, UUP) parties in Northern Ireland can pick up some seats this election.

    Im with you on this but UUP to get a seat is touch and go.
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    egg said:

    Cookie said:

    egg said:

    Banterman said:

    In 2017, Labour manifesto turned heads. Due to May's utter uselessness they stayed turned.

    2019, it looks like the overall view is the Labour manifesto is fantasy bullshit, which they have zero competence to deliver.

    Surely Boris will come up with something popular and plausible on Sunday.

    If Boris cuts taxes with borrowing and funds giveaways with brexit bonus he will come out less plausible.

    And claims Boris campaigns better than May is laughable so far.
    Egg, I think you might be misremembering just quite how useless May was at campaigning.
    No. She came across as prime ministerial and would have stood out in this crowd. May was all round more experienced and better politician than Johnson. Despite the hype we haven’t seen anything that much better from Johnson so far. Evidence is he has so far got his own brexit deal and tax cut wrong on the hoof, some huge error has to be a real fear by his handlers.
    Johnson doesn't hide.
    Boris has just declined the C4 debate, was late to the debates in the leadership election, hid from the press as Mayor. Doesn't hide quite as much as May, perhaps.
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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    camel said:

    camel said:

    Xtrain said:
    Blimey - this has cut through, and how.
    I wasn't expecting that - ouch.
    Why ouch?
    Scathing. Years ago Maureen Lipman and Jack Rosenthal used to be Labour royalty.
    Which is why I commented as I did. I thought I had offended which is upsetting unless I had meant to - which I hadn't
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Cookie said:

    Floater said:

    marke0903 said:

    Loxwood (Chichester) result:

    CON: 61.8% (+17.4)
    LDEM: 29.9% (-25.7)
    GRN: 7.7% (+7.7)
    PAT: 0.6% (+0.6)

    Conservative GAIN from Liberal Democrat.

    WE need a thread on this one ;-)
    Any local knowledge on Loxwood? Remainia or Leavistan?
    My brother and father live that way.

    Lots of Eastern European immigration but i'm surprised to see it change hands.

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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    Just an observation about this site, which I used to use and post on quite a bit a few years ago. It used to be somewhere that you could come to and join in the conversation.

    I have made a few contributions in the last few days. I don’t expect people to agree with me, but I also don’t expect people to take the piss.

    What can I say - fucking hell.
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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Floater said:

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Foxy said:

    nunu2 said:

    The people of Bolton have not been won over by Corbyn

    On the basis of this QT, they are poised to elect Chuka and the SNP.

    Who is the woman from the Torygraph, she looks terrified?
    A pretty pisspoor panel, but she does look a little over stimulated.
    There's something anachronistic about Johnson's new Tory Party which hasn't been obvious since the early days of Thatcher. A lot depends on the zeitgeist. For all that the polls are saying this is by no means a popular government
    I think this a deeply unpopular government that is one of the results of pitching "people against parliament". It is likely to get a stay of execution because of the appalling state of the Labour party, but not for long. The stench of incompetence and mendacity of the Tories cannot be covered up for long.
    Fair enough, but can we consign the marxists to the scrap heap of history first.

    I like my local Lib Dem candidate - he would get my vote except the marxists must be kept out.
    No problem. A LD vote is a safe vote. Swinson has stated that she will not support Corbyn and Davey's financial rectitude is chalk and cheese compared to McDonnell's financial incontinence.
    I wish I could believe it. But the LDs appear to believe in one thing and one thing only: British integration into the EU. They may choose other policy positions, but the EU is their one true belief, and they would put the devil himself into Downing Street for a sniff of a chance of cancelling Brexit. Do you remember Ed Davey leading a walkout of Lib Dem MPs so that Labour were able to pass theblegislation for the Lisbon Treaty without a referendum, despite what it had said in the LD manifesto? I'd love to believe that they were a party championing pragmatism and sensible investment. But if Corbyn offers them a sniff of a chance at cancelling Brexit I don't trust them not to put him in No. 10. It has become their whole reason for existence.
    That's the impression I get, anyway.
    If there was such a thing as a perv ratio, LibDems would win it no sweat. Euro champions.
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    camelcamel Posts: 815

    camel said:

    camel said:

    Xtrain said:
    Blimey - this has cut through, and how.
    I wasn't expecting that - ouch.
    Why ouch?
    Scathing. Years ago Maureen Lipman and Jack Rosenthal used to be Labour royalty.
    Which is why I commented as I did. I thought I had offended which is upsetting unless I had meant to - which I hadn't
    I don't upset easily.

    As an aside, I quite enjoyed your rocket science quip. Those charts were utterly impenetrable. I assume something to do with PR.

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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    kle4 said:

    It seems like SF and DUP might lose a seat or two as this suggests, but will much change? What incentive is there for the groups to start working together again?

    It's only a matter of WHEN, and not if, SF and DUP won't be the largest parties.
    I think it's dangerous to comment on Ulster politics if you're not native. So I don't.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    GIN1138 said:

    Labours manifesto seems to be going down like a bowl of cold sick in Bolton on Question Time?

    Mildly encouraging if true. One does rather gather the impression that QT audiences are disproportionately comprised of lefties.

    Any decent small c-conservative would be safely at home with a cup of tea, or perhaps cocoa, if not already in bed by this time of night.
    I’m not watching but just received a message from someone who couldn’t believe how much people seemed to like the Labour policies on QT.

    Who knows?
    Your statement is not inconsistent with them going down like a cup of cold sick
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Even the Guardian are poking holes in the Labour manifesto - by god it must be mad and bad

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/21/whats-in-the-labour-party-manifesto
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    camelcamel Posts: 815
    Floater said:

    Cookie said:

    Floater said:

    marke0903 said:

    Loxwood (Chichester) result:

    CON: 61.8% (+17.4)
    LDEM: 29.9% (-25.7)
    GRN: 7.7% (+7.7)
    PAT: 0.6% (+0.6)

    Conservative GAIN from Liberal Democrat.

    WE need a thread on this one ;-)
    Any local knowledge on Loxwood? Remainia or Leavistan?
    My brother and father live that way.

    Lots of Eastern European immigration but i'm surprised to see it change hands.

    I have never heard of Loxwood but wikipedia makes it sound like a small town between Camberwick Green and Chigley.

    "Loxwood is a small village and civil parish with several outlying settlements, including those at Alfold Bars, Gunshot Common, Flitchfold, Roundstreet Common, Drungewick Lane and Manor, and Wephurst Park"
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,352

    GIN1138 said:

    Labours manifesto seems to be going down like a bowl of cold sick in Bolton on Question Time?

    Mildly encouraging if true. One does rather gather the impression that QT audiences are disproportionately comprised of lefties.

    Any decent small c-conservative would be safely at home with a cup of tea, or perhaps cocoa, if not already in bed by this time of night.
    I’m not watching but just received a message from someone who couldn’t believe how much people seemed to like the Labour policies on QT.

    Who knows?
    QT audiences are selected to a large extent by asking the local parties to suggest people. That's why you get lots of people cheering and making derisive noises - it's likely to be the members on each side. It doesn't tell you anything much about whichever location they happen to be in.
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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    camel said:

    camel said:

    camel said:

    Xtrain said:
    Blimey - this has cut through, and how.
    I wasn't expecting that - ouch.
    Why ouch?
    Scathing. Years ago Maureen Lipman and Jack Rosenthal used to be Labour royalty.
    Which is why I commented as I did. I thought I had offended which is upsetting unless I had meant to - which I hadn't
    I don't upset easily.

    As an aside, I quite enjoyed your rocket science quip. Those charts were utterly impenetrable. I assume something to do with PR.

    You read me too easily. I shall have to change.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Wait, what

    A review of the controversial Prevent programme, which aims to reduce radicalisation, would be carried out.

    Hmm, - wonder why Labour went for that

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    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited November 2019
    Cookie said:

    Floater said:

    marke0903 said:

    Loxwood (Chichester) result:

    CON: 61.8% (+17.4)
    LDEM: 29.9% (-25.7)
    GRN: 7.7% (+7.7)
    PAT: 0.6% (+0.6)

    Conservative GAIN from Liberal Democrat.

    WE need a thread on this one ;-)
    Any local knowledge on Loxwood? Remainia or Leavistan?
    Not local, but from various models this looks to be somewhat Remainia.

    Outgoing Councillor was only elected in May, defected to Greens, then resigned. From the reports of her defection;

    “I stood as a Liberal Democrat in support of another candidate, and did not campaign actively on my own behalf. Now that I have been elected, I am committed to representing the ward with integrity and clarity, in keeping with my personal values. I feel my voice for Loxwood will be strongest and most effective from within the Green Party.”

    I suspect had the Conservatives been polling nationally in May what they are now this new seat probably would have been won by them in the first place.
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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Floater said:

    Even the Guardian are poking holes in the Labour manifesto - by god it must be mad and bad

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/21/whats-in-the-labour-party-manifesto

    If the Grauniad is being picky, it must have merit. Or is that too perverse.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Sectoral collective bargaining would be brought in across the economy “to stop good employers being undercut by bad employers”.

    Fuck that - reward high performers more
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    Its a Terrrrrible night for the Tories Labour

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1197672865304391681?s=20
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    Wow - this must be that rocket science everyone talks about.
    As a fairly irregular visitor, and usually just to read, this is just the sort of comment that really puts off contributions.

    I make an observation, I’m not sure what your input did for you, but it does makes you look a bit of a tosser.
    oooo - it was actually deferential. You must be very thin skinned. You'll find it heavy going on here.
    Going back to my original point, I was very surprised at how evenly the Lib Dem vote split. 15% each to SNP and Con with 18% to Labour. The Greens got a bit more. I’m not sure exactly what I would have expected, but I am surprised it was that even.

    Maybe that is what would be expected in these elections. I haven’t studied them in detail. I suppose that it could be argued it is a majority split amongst the remain parties, but still it did strike me as a surprisingly even split.

    As goes your reply, sincere apologies if I misunderstood. I read it as a “no shit, sherlock” type reply. If you meant something different then I do apologise.
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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    GIN1138 said:

    Labours manifesto seems to be going down like a bowl of cold sick in Bolton on Question Time?

    Mildly encouraging if true. One does rather gather the impression that QT audiences are disproportionately comprised of lefties.

    Any decent small c-conservative would be safely at home with a cup of tea, or perhaps cocoa, if not already in bed by this time of night.
    I’m not watching but just received a message from someone who couldn’t believe how much people seemed to like the Labour policies on QT.

    Who knows?
    QT audiences are selected to a large extent by asking the local parties to suggest people. That's why you get lots of people cheering and making derisive noises - it's likely to be the members on each side. It doesn't tell you anything much about whichever location they happen to be in.
    Very informative. Perhaps that should be posted up front like a health warning on fags (Brit - informal). Should not the BBC be "correcting" this so that ordinary folk are represented rather than tribal geeks?
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Its a Terrrrrible night for the Tories Labour

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1197672865304391681?s=20

    Another piss poor result from team trot
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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    Wow - this must be that rocket science everyone talks about.
    As a fairly irregular visitor, and usually just to read, this is just the sort of comment that really puts off contributions.

    I make an observation, I’m not sure what your input did for you, but it does makes you look a bit of a tosser.
    oooo - it was actually deferential. You must be very thin skinned. You'll find it heavy going on here.
    Going back to my original point, I was very surprised at how evenly the Lib Dem vote split. 15% each to SNP and Con with 18% to Labour. The Greens got a bit more. I’m not sure exactly what I would have expected, but I am surprised it was that even.

    Maybe that is what would be expected in these elections. I haven’t studied them in detail. I suppose that it could be argued it is a majority split amongst the remain parties, but still it did strike me as a surprisingly even split.

    As goes your reply, sincere apologies if I misunderstood. I read it as a “no shit, sherlock” type reply. If you meant something different then I do apologise.
    No apologies necessary . I have the skin of a warthog and the memory of a goldfish.
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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Floater said:
    So am I. Even more so now. I just hope that Marxism can be reburied at sea.
This discussion has been closed.