Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Local By-Election Review : The 2017 – 2019 Parliament

245

Comments

  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Great thread Harry. A massively well hung parliament sounds good to me. Corbyn and johnson would both be out within weeks if it's right
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    I've got the same horrible feeling I had about this election that I had, last night, about the World Cup rugby final.

    Dammit.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237
    Artist said:

    Opinium is out as well.

    I am VERY skeptical of their offering.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,236
    Byronic said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    Actually the "changes since" do put an entirely different gloss on this.

    Looks like ORB tend to favour Labour, and who the fuck are ORB anyway
    The changes are from a period when the Tories were about to poll sub 10% in a nationwide election.
    Yeah, I just had a look.

    So are ORB any good? They are used by the Telegraph but infrequently, it seems.
    ORB, if I recall correctly, don't publish their raw data and aren't a member of the BRC. So, they might be good... but at the same time, you need to be a little bit sceptical.
    They ARE members of the BPC
    Yeah, but what about the BRC?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,615
    GIN1138 said:
    Boris polling at levels not seen since, er.....May's Shit Election!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Byronic said:

    Boris really needs to finish off the BXP, then he will walk this

    Too late to stop Farage standingin all(most) seats. Can he sow division in BXP ranks and see some angry at Farage?

    Oddly, a big poll lead might make that more difficult, since BXP voters can assume Boris will win anyway, so they won't stop Brexit by spitting the vote!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Byronic said:

    I've got the same horrible feeling I had about this election that I had, last night, about the World Cup rugby final.

    Dammit.

    Just think how you'll feel in five or so weeks when we are about to hit the big bong.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    Single digit polling for the Farragists becoming the norm. Late Sept they were polling 14/15/16.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    Let's just hope Cummings is actually focus grouping the crap out of the Con manifesto this time! :D
  • Byronic said:

    Actually the "changes since" do put an entirely different gloss on this.

    Looks like ORB tend to favour Labour, and who the fuck are ORB anyway
    The changes are from a period when the Tories were about to poll sub 10% in a nationwide election.
    But a better comparison would be the May local elections which had a Con 31, Lab 31, LibD 17 result.

    So they were a bit down on the Conservatives and quite a lot down on the LibDems.
  • Byronic said:

    Boris really needs to finish off the BXP, then he will walk this

    I would just ignore them. Apparently there is a lot of anger within TBP with Farage with many saying the hard ERG are 100% behind the deal and they will vote for Boris
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,622
    edited November 2019
    Was I the only person who was so surprised that you could get South Africa at just under evens at half time ?
  • The most striking thing about these latest two polls, and other recent ones, is that the LibDems don't seem to be picking up the levels of support which one might expect given the political environment and the states of the two big parties.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Roger said:

    Great thread Harry. A massively well hung parliament sounds good to me. Corbyn and johnson would both be out within weeks if it's right

    Harry's predicted result would be just about the perfect result for those who want a 2nd referendum. There could be no coalition, because the LDs would never countenance a Scottish referendum, and the Nats and Labour wouldn't have enough on their own.

    If his horribly hung parliament came to pass, I imagine a very temporary government would be formed solely to call a new referendum and then a new general election straight after. Or maybe both at the same time.

  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900

    Was I the only person who was so surprised that you could get South Africa at only just under evens at half time ?

    Lotta money on England beforehand, even at half-time that still has a hefty residual effect.
  • GIN1138 said:
    Boris polling at levels not seen since, er.....May's Shit Election!
    Well that's fake news for starters.

    In November 2018 the Tories were polling 42% and regularly in the 40s.

    Ditto June 2018 when they hit 44%

  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited November 2019

    The most striking thing about these latest two polls, and other recent ones, is that the LibDems don't seem to be picking up the levels of support which one might expect given the political environment and the states of the two big parties.

    Swinson might be out on 12th December.

    Bring on Chuka? :D
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    The most striking thing about these latest two polls, and other recent ones, is that the LibDems don't seem to be picking up the levels of support which one might expect given the political environment and the states of the two big parties.

    I am surprised by the hostility I hear to Swinson. People just don't like here (especially women of my acquaintance)

    This surprises me entirely. But it is what I encounter.
  • kinabalu said:

    Artist said:

    Opinium is out as well.

    I am VERY skeptical of their offering.
    Why
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,724
    edited November 2019
    Byronic said:

    I've got the same horrible feeling I had about this election that I had, last night, about the World Cup rugby final.

    Dammit.

    You remind me of someone else who was also wobblier than a jelly on a spin dryer.
  • F1: due to the daft timings of this weekend, third practice will start in about 8 minutes.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    Byronic said:

    I've got the same horrible feeling I had about this election that I had, last night, about the World Cup rugby final.

    Dammit.

    Corbyn Labour are hardly the Springboks
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,615

    The most striking thing about these latest two polls, and other recent ones, is that the LibDems don't seem to be picking up the levels of support which one might expect given the political environment and the states of the two big parties.

    Or, if you are door-knocker, entirely expected - with a poor leader who puts off voters with a single unpopular policy - and nothing else.
  • Byronic said:

    The most striking thing about these latest two polls, and other recent ones, is that the LibDems don't seem to be picking up the levels of support which one might expect given the political environment and the states of the two big parties.

    I am surprised by the hostility I hear to Swinson. People just don't like here (especially women of my acquaintance)

    This surprises me entirely. But it is what I encounter.
    https://twitter.com/LSEpoliticsblog/status/1190588867927269376
  • *** Betting Post ***

    For anyone who doesn't expect a Labour meltdown then there are some nice constituency bets at SkyBet.

    For example Labour to win Barnsley Central at 2/5, Brighton Kemptown at 4/6 and Doncaster North at 1/2.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,236
    That feels about right to me, with one caveat. I tend to think of the Con + BXP share as being about 48%, and that's at 51%.

    Medium term, the question is whether Labour squeezes the LDs down to the 9-12% level, and therefore close the gap with the Conservaties. Or if "Bollocks to Brexit" resonates, and the LDs steal votes from Labour.

    If the former (which is 2017 rerun), then I see a small Conservative majority (say 30-40). If the latter, then it will be a much bigger majority as the non-Tory share will be split.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    The most striking thing about these latest two polls, and other recent ones, is that the LibDems don't seem to be picking up the levels of support which one might expect given the political environment and the states of the two big parties.

    Or, if you are door-knocker, entirely expected - with a poor leader who puts off voters with a single unpopular policy - and nothing else.
    Revoke was and is madness. I thought it might help, electorally, before the downsides hit, but it looks like most of the voters already think it is madness, too.
  • Byronic said:

    Boris really needs to finish off the BXP, then he will walk this

    I would just ignore them. Apparently there is a lot of anger within TBP with Farage with many saying the hard ERG are 100% behind the deal and they will vote for Boris
    Farage doesn't care how much anger is directed at him as long as he is the centre of attention.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,236
    GIN1138 said:

    The most striking thing about these latest two polls, and other recent ones, is that the LibDems don't seem to be picking up the levels of support which one might expect given the political environment and the states of the two big parties.

    Swinson might be out on 12th December.

    Bring on Chuka? :D
    That requires Chuka to win Cities of London and Westminster from a poor third.

    It's possible. But unlikely.
  • My prediction of a minority government and a new election in March/April looking ok this afternoon.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Slightly odd choice of headline. A majority on those figures is perfectly plausible.

    Not an odd choice just trying to pretend that corbyn has a chance of winning so you have only one choice of the new messiah to avoid Armageddon and death of the first born.
  • Byronic said:

    The most striking thing about these latest two polls, and other recent ones, is that the LibDems don't seem to be picking up the levels of support which one might expect given the political environment and the states of the two big parties.

    I am surprised by the hostility I hear to Swinson. People just don't like here (especially women of my acquaintance)

    This surprises me entirely. But it is what I encounter.
    https://twitter.com/LSEpoliticsblog/status/1190588867927269376
    People obviously don't remember the Tories under Thatcher!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,503
    Still gutted about how poor we were today.

    Who cares about politics?

    Well done to SA. They were great.

    And now, gin.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited November 2019
    Byronic said:

    The most striking thing about these latest two polls, and other recent ones, is that the LibDems don't seem to be picking up the levels of support which one might expect given the political environment and the states of the two big parties.

    I am surprised by the hostility I hear to Swinson. People just don't like here (especially women of my acquaintance)

    This surprises me entirely. But it is what I encounter.
    I'm not particularly surprised. These is something slightly grating about her. (And as I've pointed out before, she urgently needs to get herself a decent hairdresser).

    I think they (or she) have made some strategic missteps as well. The Revoke-without-a-referendum policy was odd; there was no need for it, they could perfectly reasonably have said they support a second referendum and that their long-term goal is for the UK to be a member of the EU, and left open the completely academic question of what they would do if they got a majority.
  • Byronic said:

    The most striking thing about these latest two polls, and other recent ones, is that the LibDems don't seem to be picking up the levels of support which one might expect given the political environment and the states of the two big parties.

    I am surprised by the hostility I hear to Swinson. People just don't like here (especially women of my acquaintance)

    This surprises me entirely. But it is what I encounter.
    https://twitter.com/LSEpoliticsblog/status/1190588867927269376
    People obviously don't remember the Tories under Thatcher!
    Thatcher was a brilliant moderate, she was very pro European, one of her earliest acts was to civilise the Scots and Norn Irish by decriminalising homosexuality, and she believed in climate change as well.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    My prediction of a minority government and a new election in March/April looking ok this afternoon.
    Depending on the poll, sure.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    edited November 2019

    Byronic said:

    The most striking thing about these latest two polls, and other recent ones, is that the LibDems don't seem to be picking up the levels of support which one might expect given the political environment and the states of the two big parties.

    I am surprised by the hostility I hear to Swinson. People just don't like here (especially women of my acquaintance)

    This surprises me entirely. But it is what I encounter.
    Who's to decide what is extreme?
  • Byronic said:

    Boris really needs to finish off the BXP, then he will walk this

    I would just ignore them. Apparently there is a lot of anger within TBP with Farage with many saying the hard ERG are 100% behind the deal and they will vote for Boris
    Farage doesn't care how much anger is directed at him as long as he is the centre of attention.
    The only relevant point is how many of his party vote for Boris and even if we some defect to Boris. It may not happen but I really think his day has come and gone
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited November 2019

    The most striking thing about these latest two polls, and other recent ones, is that the LibDems don't seem to be picking up the levels of support which one might expect given the political environment and the states of the two big parties.

    Or, if you are door-knocker, entirely expected - with a poor leader who puts off voters with a single unpopular policy - and nothing else.
    To be fair, aren't you a door-knocker in a constituency which might not be the most receptive to her main policy?

    On the 'single policy' point, in a way I think that's the opposite of the problem. Just as one thinks they might be OK as an alternative to the big parties, you notice that as well as a Brexit position which at least is clear, they also propose other very off-putting stuff, such as votes for children.
  • Byronic said:

    The most striking thing about these latest two polls, and other recent ones, is that the LibDems don't seem to be picking up the levels of support which one might expect given the political environment and the states of the two big parties.

    Or, if you are door-knocker, entirely expected - with a poor leader who puts off voters with a single unpopular policy - and nothing else.
    Revoke was and is madness. I thought it might help, electorally, before the downsides hit, but it looks like most of the voters already think it is madness, too.
    Yeah, Revoke without another referendum is not on in my opinion (except if it were the only option to prevent crashing out with no deal), and I believe that I am a "Die Hard Remainer". People have taken the Brexit polarisation narrative too literally - yes the country is deeply divided, but there is still some desire for compromise, which I think may help Labour eventually especially if voters twig that Johnson's deal is a hard Brexit.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149

    My prediction of a minority government and a new election in March/April looking ok this afternoon.
    Uh no it is not.

    ORB still gives a small Tory majority on UNS, Opinium gives a huge Tory landslide of 1983 and 1997 and 2001 size
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    edited November 2019
    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    The most striking thing about these latest two polls, and other recent ones, is that the LibDems don't seem to be picking up the levels of support which one might expect given the political environment and the states of the two big parties.

    Swinson might be out on 12th December.

    Bring on Chuka? :D
    That requires Chuka to win Cities of London and Westminster from a poor third.

    It's possible. But unlikely.
    Given the LD surge in central London polls not impossible, especially with Labour tactical voting and no incumbent as Mark Field is standing down
  • Since Swinson tweeted disparagingly about "Six white men stuck in the past" it would be frightfully amusing if, after the dust had settled, that's all her parliamentary party consisted of.
  • HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    The most striking thing about these latest two polls, and other recent ones, is that the LibDems don't seem to be picking up the levels of support which one might expect given the political environment and the states of the two big parties.

    Swinson might be out on 12th December.

    Bring on Chuka? :D
    That requires Chuka to win Cities of London and Westminster from a poor third.

    It's possible. But unlikely.
    Given the LD surge in central London polls not impossible, especially with Labour tactical voting and no incumbent as Mark Field is standing down
    Yes, they should do well in London. Chuka is certainly trying hard.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,724

    The most striking thing about these latest two polls, and other recent ones, is that the LibDems don't seem to be picking up the levels of support which one might expect given the political environment and the states of the two big parties.

    Or, if you are door-knocker, entirely expected - with a poor leader who puts off voters with a single unpopular policy - and nothing else.
    To be fair, aren't you a door-knocker in a constituency which might not be the most receptive to her main policy?

    On the 'single policy' point, in a way I think that's the opposite of the problem. Just as one thinks they might be OK as an alternative to the big parties, you notice that as well as a Brexit position which at least is clear, they also propose other very off-putting stuff, such as votes for children.
    I am fairly chilled at this point, and am sure that she will contrast well with Johnson and Corbyn when the campaign proper begins, and media coverage rules apply.

    However punters may want to follow me in on these bets with Shadsy.

    LD under 10% at 18

    LD 20-29 seats at 5.5
  • Byronic said:

    The most striking thing about these latest two polls, and other recent ones, is that the LibDems don't seem to be picking up the levels of support which one might expect given the political environment and the states of the two big parties.

    I am surprised by the hostility I hear to Swinson. People just don't like here (especially women of my acquaintance)

    This surprises me entirely. But it is what I encounter.
    https://twitter.com/LSEpoliticsblog/status/1190588867927269376
    People obviously don't remember the Tories under Thatcher!
    Thatcher was a brilliant moderate, she was very pro European, one of her earliest acts was to civilise the Scots and Norn Irish by decriminalising homosexuality, and she believed in climate change as well.
    Hmm not how it felt if you were growing up in Scotland and the NE of England in the 1980s, with the "enemy within" stuff, Poll Tax, tax cuts for the rich, the later hostility towards Europe, crazy monetarism, mass unemployment, and her horrible fake posh voice that was like nails on a blackboard. I will give you climate change though, she was a good scientist unlike all the awful PPE wankers who have followed her, and some of the records published ex post have shown her to have perhaps taken a more reasonable line in private, eg on South Africa and talking to the IRA, than the strident right wing tone she adopted in public. Undoubtedly the greatest politician of the postwar era, like her or mostly loathe her as I did.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    Was I the only person who was so surprised that you could get South Africa at just under evens at half time ?

    No I got them at 11/8 when they were leading just before half time, England were still odds on , crazy.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293

    Still gutted about how poor we were today.

    Who cares about politics?

    Well done to SA. They were great.

    And now, gin.

    Hello? ;)
  • rcs1000 said:

    That feels about right to me, with one caveat. I tend to think of the Con + BXP share as being about 48%, and that's at 51%.

    Medium term, the question is whether Labour squeezes the LDs down to the 9-12% level, and therefore close the gap with the Conservaties. Or if "Bollocks to Brexit" resonates, and the LDs steal votes from Labour.

    If the former (which is 2017 rerun), then I see a small Conservative majority (say 30-40). If the latter, then it will be a much bigger majority as the non-Tory share will be split.
    Not all Tory voters will be pro-remain; some will be anti-Corbyn. (I’m assuming that is where your 48% comes from).
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,213

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    The most striking thing about these latest two polls, and other recent ones, is that the LibDems don't seem to be picking up the levels of support which one might expect given the political environment and the states of the two big parties.

    Swinson might be out on 12th December.

    Bring on Chuka? :D
    That requires Chuka to win Cities of London and Westminster from a poor third.

    It's possible. But unlikely.
    Given the LD surge in central London polls not impossible, especially with Labour tactical voting and no incumbent as Mark Field is standing down
    Yes, they should do well in London. Chuka is certainly trying hard.
    I'm backing the blues there. Labour won't go forward there and Chuka needs a colossal swing to win. I'd have backed the Lib Dems at 2-1 maybe but the price has collapsed in far too much for what is still a huge ask
  • Byronic said:

    The most striking thing about these latest two polls, and other recent ones, is that the LibDems don't seem to be picking up the levels of support which one might expect given the political environment and the states of the two big parties.

    I am surprised by the hostility I hear to Swinson. People just don't like here (especially women of my acquaintance)

    This surprises me entirely. But it is what I encounter.
    https://twitter.com/LSEpoliticsblog/status/1190588867927269376
    People obviously don't remember the Tories under Thatcher!
    Thatcher was a brilliant moderate, she was very pro European, one of her earliest acts was to civilise the Scots and Norn Irish by decriminalising homosexuality, and she believed in climate change as well.
    Hmm not how it felt if you were growing up in Scotland and the NE of England in the 1980s, with the "enemy within" stuff, Poll Tax, tax cuts for the rich, the later hostility towards Europe, crazy monetarism, mass unemployment, and her horrible fake posh voice that was like nails on a blackboard. I will give you climate change though, she was a good scientist unlike all the awful PPE wankers who have followed her, and some of the records published ex post have shown her to have perhaps taken a more reasonable line in private, eg on South Africa and talking to the IRA, than the strident right wing tone she adopted in public. Undoubtedly the greatest politician of the postwar era, like her or mostly loathe her as I did.
    I grew up in South Yorkshire in the 1980s, the epicentre of anti-Thatcher sentiment.

    Thatcher as she governed is the benchmark for my PMs.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    Byronic said:

    The most striking thing about these latest two polls, and other recent ones, is that the LibDems don't seem to be picking up the levels of support which one might expect given the political environment and the states of the two big parties.

    I am surprised by the hostility I hear to Swinson. People just don't like here (especially women of my acquaintance)

    This surprises me entirely. But it is what I encounter.
    Does not surprise me , she is rubbish , annoying and a whinger.
  • Jeremy Corbyn


    There are 150 billionaires in the UK while 14 million people live in poverty.

    In a fair society there would be no billionaires and no one would live in poverty.


    So Jeremy where will you find the tax, jobs and investment, when they all go to Ireland or the like

    Seek a loan from Venezeula ?

    This has to be the first leader of our main parties to espouse such insanity
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,213
    Labour had best hope the Tories don't lose Cities if the score is as wide as some polls are suggesting, it would imply almost unthinkable results elsewhere
  • Mr. NorthWales, I'm more interested in how he's going to effect that.

    Straightforward seizure of private property? Punitive taxation? Exile?
  • glwglw Posts: 9,912

    The most striking thing about these latest two polls, and other recent ones, is that the LibDems don't seem to be picking up the levels of support which one might expect given the political environment and the states of the two big parties.

    I think that's because they are rubbish at politics, even when they occasionally have good ideas. Now they've combined a terrible idea, Revoke, with being rubbish.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    Jeremy Corbyn


    There are 150 billionaires in the UK while 14 million people live in poverty.

    In a fair society there would be no billionaires and no one would live in poverty.


    So Jeremy where will you find the tax, jobs and investment, when they all go to Ireland or the like

    Seek a loan from Venezeula ?

    This has to be the first leader of our main parties to espouse such insanity

    It's not intended for this audience. It's a short snippet for social media sharing that shows Labour are on the side of the people and if the Tories respond then they are on the side of the billionaires. It's cynical, but smart politics.
  • Mr. NorthWales, I'm more interested in how he's going to effect that.

    Straightforward seizure of private property? Punitive taxation? Exile?

    All of the aforesaid and more
  • Jeremy Corbyn is an incredible danger to the country.

    I wouldn't be surprised if he got his wish and there were zero billionaires in the country after he spent 5 years in Downing Street. What impact that would have on the Exchequer shouldn't need pointing out ...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,236

    rcs1000 said:

    That feels about right to me, with one caveat. I tend to think of the Con + BXP share as being about 48%, and that's at 51%.

    Medium term, the question is whether Labour squeezes the LDs down to the 9-12% level, and therefore close the gap with the Conservaties. Or if "Bollocks to Brexit" resonates, and the LDs steal votes from Labour.

    If the former (which is 2017 rerun), then I see a small Conservative majority (say 30-40). If the latter, then it will be a much bigger majority as the non-Tory share will be split.
    Not all Tory voters will be pro-remain; some will be anti-Corbyn. (I’m assuming that is where your 48% comes from).
    My 48% is just a rule of thumb that's tended to be replicated across polls from various organisations. It could be completely wrong.
  • Jeremy Corbyn is an incredible danger to the country.

    I wouldn't be surprised if he got his wish and there were zero billionaires in the country after he spent 5 years in Downing Street. What impact that would have on the Exchequer shouldn't need pointing out ...

    Project Fear.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,912
    Byronic said:

    Revoke was and is madness. I thought it might help, electorally, before the downsides hit, but it looks like most of the voters already think it is madness, too.

    If they'd stuck to 2nd referendum I think that would be fine, but many Remainers think that straight Revoke, even with a general election win, smacks of discarding the previous result without giving the electorate a proper say.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,213
    edited November 2019
    Billionaires are fine, what is needed is an incentive system to make their money work.
    E.g. Musk couldn't go for his space adventures without being a billionaire. If Bezos had a trillion dollars he might be able to start work on an O Neill colony or some such.
    It's the ones that just sit around doing nothing much that are the issue.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    edited November 2019

    Jeremy Corbyn is an incredible danger to the country.

    I wouldn't be surprised if he got his wish and there were zero billionaires in the country after he spent 5 years in Downing Street. What impact that would have on the Exchequer shouldn't need pointing out ...

    We would be the only country in Western Europe, North America and Oceania without a billionaire, which is not encouraging as to where we would be headed.
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469

    Since Swinson tweeted disparagingly about "Six white men stuck in the past" it would be frightfully amusing if, after the dust had settled, that's all her parliamentary party consisted of.
    The A Team
  • Jeremy Corbyn is an incredible danger to the country.

    I wouldn't be surprised if he got his wish and there were zero billionaires in the country after he spent 5 years in Downing Street. What impact that would have on the Exchequer shouldn't need pointing out ...

    But you’re completely relaxed about the current Prime Minister’s attempt to suspend democracy.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,622
    edited November 2019

    Byronic said:

    The most striking thing about these latest two polls, and other recent ones, is that the LibDems don't seem to be picking up the levels of support which one might expect given the political environment and the states of the two big parties.

    I am surprised by the hostility I hear to Swinson. People just don't like here (especially women of my acquaintance)

    This surprises me entirely. But it is what I encounter.
    https://twitter.com/LSEpoliticsblog/status/1190588867927269376
    People obviously don't remember the Tories under Thatcher!
    Thatcher was a brilliant moderate, she was very pro European, one of her earliest acts was to civilise the Scots and Norn Irish by decriminalising homosexuality, and she believed in climate change as well.
    Hmm not how it felt if you were growing up in Scotland and the NE of England in the 1980s, with the "enemy within" stuff, Poll Tax, tax cuts for the rich, the later hostility towards Europe, crazy monetarism, mass unemployment, and her horrible fake posh voice that was like nails on a blackboard. I will give you climate change though, she was a good scientist unlike all the awful PPE wankers who have followed her, and some of the records published ex post have shown her to have perhaps taken a more reasonable line in private, eg on South Africa and talking to the IRA, than the strident right wing tone she adopted in public. Undoubtedly the greatest politician of the postwar era, like her or mostly loathe her as I did.
    I grew up in South Yorkshire in the 1980s, the epicentre of anti-Thatcher sentiment.

    Thatcher as she governed is the benchmark for my PMs.
    Given the voting splits by age its likely that in England the Conservatives now lead among the miners of 1984.
  • Byronic said:

    The most striking thing about these latest two polls, and other recent ones, is that the LibDems don't seem to be picking up the levels of support which one might expect given the political environment and the states of the two big parties.

    I am surprised by the hostility I hear to Swinson. People just don't like here (especially women of my acquaintance)

    This surprises me entirely. But it is what I encounter.
    https://twitter.com/LSEpoliticsblog/status/1190588867927269376
    People obviously don't remember the Tories under Thatcher!
    We don't know what people would have thought if Thatcher was a man!
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    Foxy said:

    The most striking thing about these latest two polls, and other recent ones, is that the LibDems don't seem to be picking up the levels of support which one might expect given the political environment and the states of the two big parties.

    Or, if you are door-knocker, entirely expected - with a poor leader who puts off voters with a single unpopular policy - and nothing else.
    To be fair, aren't you a door-knocker in a constituency which might not be the most receptive to her main policy?

    On the 'single policy' point, in a way I think that's the opposite of the problem. Just as one thinks they might be OK as an alternative to the big parties, you notice that as well as a Brexit position which at least is clear, they also propose other very off-putting stuff, such as votes for children.
    I am fairly chilled at this point, and am sure that she will contrast well with Johnson and Corbyn when the campaign proper begins, and media coverage rules apply.

    However punters may want to follow me in on these bets with Shadsy.

    LD under 10% at 18

    LD 20-29 seats at 5.5
    No chance in my view..just speaking to.people on the street the LIB dem.offering is beautifully simple
  • FlannerFlanner Posts: 437


    [Thatcher] was a good scientist unlike all the awful PPE wankers who have followed her,

    Where does this myth come from?
    Her successors:

    Major: University of Hard Knocks
    Blair: Law
    Brown: History
    Cameron: OK: PPE
    May: Geography
    Johnson: Literae Humaniores (Philosophy and Classics)

    And if you seriously believe ancient Greek's for wimps, you're an even bigger wanker than Johnson. Which till now, I'd have thought impossible.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    Jeremy Corbyn is an incredible danger to the country.

    I wouldn't be surprised if he got his wish and there were zero billionaires in the country after he spent 5 years in Downing Street. What impact that would have on the Exchequer shouldn't need pointing out ...

    Project Fear.
    Project fear's can be based in fact, if the truth is something one should be fearful of. The Corbyn stuff does get overblown though, it's a bit of the Ed M issue - is he to be shown as too weak and stupid to be serious, or is he a dangerous menace because he will be able to deliver on what he says?
  • My prediction of a minority government and a new election in March/April looking ok this afternoon.
    Assuming it's ComRes, the last one had a 4% Tory lead, and the previous two 6%. So a move towards the Tories.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,213
    Are the Lib Dems going to seriously target anywhere outside London ?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,724
    edited November 2019

    Jeremy Corbyn


    There are 150 billionaires in the UK while 14 million people live in poverty.

    In a fair society there would be no billionaires and no one would live in poverty.


    So Jeremy where will you find the tax, jobs and investment, when they all go to Ireland or the like

    Seek a loan from Venezeula ?

    This has to be the first leader of our main parties to espouse such insanity

    Increasing disparity between the super rich "Citizens of Nowhere" and those left behind in old coalfield towns is a large part of the genesis of Brexit.

    Corbyn may not have the right solution but he has recognised the problem. Can BoZo and JRM?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    edited November 2019
    Flanner said:


    [Thatcher] was a good scientist unlike all the awful PPE wankers who have followed her,

    Where does this myth come from?
    Her successors:

    Major: University of Hard Knocks
    Blair: Law
    Brown: History
    Cameron: OK: PPE
    May: Geography
    Johnson: Literae Humaniores (Philosophy and Classics)

    And if you seriously believe ancient Greek's for wimps, you're an even bigger wanker than Johnson. Which till now, I'd have thought impossible.

    Flanner said:


    [Thatcher] was a good scientist unlike

    Flanner said:


    [Thatcher] was a good scientist unlike all the awful PPE wankers who have followed her,

    Where does this myth come from?
    Her successors:

    Major: University of Hard Knocks
    Blair: Law
    Brown: History
    Cameron: OK: PPE
    May: Geography
    Johnson: Literae Humaniores (Philosophy and Classics)

    And if you seriously believe ancient Greek's for wimps, you're an even bigger wanker than Johnson. Which till now, I'd have thought impossible.

    It’s not exactly useful though is it?
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    You can all believe this or not but here goes..
    I was with a very senior Tory for.mist of today watching the rugby then lunch..he has absolutely no idea how the feeling is in his constituency..not only that the individual told.me.nor.do most Tory MPs.
    The LIb Dems.ground game.is far more.advanced than.any.of the other parties..
    Just saying
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    Pulpstar said:

    Are the Lib Dems going to seriously target anywhere outside London ?

    Yes..the south west and Surrey and Hampshire
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Mr. NorthWales, I'm more interested in how he's going to effect that.

    Straightforward seizure of private property? Punitive taxation? Exile?

    To some extent you are welcoming your new insect overlords. A small percentage of the billionaires are spiffy entrepreneurs reaping the just rewards of inventing a better vacuum cleaner. The rest are kleptocrats. We can tell this from the ludicrous increase in ceo vs average pay over the last 50 years. Either ceos have got 20x better at their jobs (they haven't) or they have got better at diverting money to themselves at the expense of the workforce and shareholders (they have). It is perfectly acceptable capitalist thought that we should identify and frustrate cartels of this sort rather than cringe in gratitude at the thought that they pay a limited amount of tax on the proceeds of the scam.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,060
    Pulpstar said:

    Billionaires are fine, what is needed is an incentive system to make their money work.
    E.g. Musk couldn't go for his space adventures without being a billionaire. If Bezos had a trillion dollars he might be able to start work on an O Neill colony or some such.
    It's the ones that just sit around doing nothing much that are the issue.

    And who think paying tax is something other people should do.
  • Byronic said:

    The most striking thing about these latest two polls, and other recent ones, is that the LibDems don't seem to be picking up the levels of support which one might expect given the political environment and the states of the two big parties.

    I am surprised by the hostility I hear to Swinson. People just don't like here (especially women of my acquaintance)

    This surprises me entirely. But it is what I encounter.
    https://twitter.com/LSEpoliticsblog/status/1190588867927269376
    People obviously don't remember the Tories under Thatcher!
    Thatcher was a brilliant moderate, she was very pro European, one of her earliest acts was to civilise the Scots and Norn Irish by decriminalising homosexuality, and she believed in climate change as well.
    Hmm not how it felt if you were growing up in Scotland and the NE of England in the 1980s, with the "enemy within" stuff, Poll Tax, tax cuts for the rich, the later hostility towards Europe, crazy monetarism, mass unemployment, and her horrible fake posh voice that was like nails on a blackboard. I will give you climate change though, she was a good scientist unlike all the awful PPE wankers who have followed her, and some of the records published ex post have shown her to have perhaps taken a more reasonable line in private, eg on South Africa and talking to the IRA, than the strident right wing tone she adopted in public. Undoubtedly the greatest politician of the postwar era, like her or mostly loathe her as I did.
    I grew up in South Yorkshire in the 1980s, the epicentre of anti-Thatcher sentiment.

    Thatcher as she governed is the benchmark for my PMs.
    She was an extremely competent politician and was able to make more substantive changes to Britain than any leader since Atlee or subsequently. I think though she was without doubt the least moderate Tory PM of the postwar era, with the possible exception of BJ (because of Brexit). I do also think that she is responsible for most of the sickness plaguing our society currently, and I say that as somebody who has been a massive winner in the sink or swim society she created.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,912

    Jeremy Corbyn is an incredible danger to the country.

    I wouldn't be surprised if he got his wish and there were zero billionaires in the country after he spent 5 years in Downing Street. What impact that would have on the Exchequer shouldn't need pointing out ...

    It's a stupid argument from a stupid man.

    There are many countries that have more billionaires per capita than us. Including countries like Sweden, Norway, Germany, Canada, and Denmark. You wouldn't want to live in most of the countries that have far fewer.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,615
    Foxy said:

    Jeremy Corbyn


    There are 150 billionaires in the UK while 14 million people live in poverty.

    In a fair society there would be no billionaires and no one would live in poverty.


    So Jeremy where will you find the tax, jobs and investment, when they all go to Ireland or the like

    Seek a loan from Venezeula ?

    This has to be the first leader of our main parties to espouse such insanity

    Increasing disparity between the super rich "Citizens of Nowhere" and those left behind in old coalfield towns is a large part of the genesis of Brexit.

    Corbyn may not have the right solution but he has recognised the problem. Can BoZo and JRM?
    His solution is to tell the billionaires to fuck off.

    And then he'll have to close hospitals when they do.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,236
    Pulpstar said:

    Are the Lib Dems going to seriously target anywhere outside London ?

    St Albans?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,425
    The most exciting and adventurous part of a holiday to Malta should not be finding a train to Birmingham. However...
  • F1: Ferrari engine not looking great. Leclerc's back in the garage. There's still about half of practice left to go.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    malcolmg said:

    Byronic said:

    The most striking thing about these latest two polls, and other recent ones, is that the LibDems don't seem to be picking up the levels of support which one might expect given the political environment and the states of the two big parties.

    I am surprised by the hostility I hear to Swinson. People just don't like here (especially women of my acquaintance)

    This surprises me entirely. But it is what I encounter.
    Does not surprise me , she is rubbish , annoying and a whinger.
    As I was saying last night, she is a single-point-of-failure for the Libs, and if she fails to withstand the scrutiny, it is a problem.
  • Pulpstar said:


    I'm backing the blues there. Labour won't go forward there and Chuka needs a colossal swing to win. I'd have backed the Lib Dems at 2-1 maybe but the price has collapsed in far too much for what is still a huge ask

    Yeah, it is a big ask.
  • Mr. Z, Corbyn hasn't advocated cracking down on cartels. He's advocating action of an unknown type to eliminate billionaires within the UK.
  • midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    Pulpstar said:

    Are the Lib Dems going to seriously target anywhere outside London ?

    Lewes?
  • timmo said:

    You can all believe this or not but here goes..
    I was with a very senior Tory for.mist of today watching the rugby then lunch..he has absolutely no idea how the feeling is in his constituency..not only that the individual told.me.nor.do most Tory MPs.
    The LIb Dems.ground game.is far more.advanced than.any.of the other parties..
    Just saying

    The LibDem ground game is going to be stretched, though, if they spread their efforts too widely.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,130
    edited November 2019

    My prediction of a minority government and a new election in March/April looking ok this afternoon.
    Assuming it's ComRes, the last one had a 4% Tory lead, and the previous two 6%. So a move towards the Tories.
    It was ORB Conservatives +10 labour -1 from previous poll
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131

    ...I grew up in South Yorkshire in the 1980s, the epicentre of anti-Thatcher sentiment...

    IIRC, you were so poor your mother could only afford to buy you one house in London. Such deprivation: how could you withstand it?... :(

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,615

    The most striking thing about these latest two polls, and other recent ones, is that the LibDems don't seem to be picking up the levels of support which one might expect given the political environment and the states of the two big parties.

    Or, if you are door-knocker, entirely expected - with a poor leader who puts off voters with a single unpopular policy - and nothing else.
    To be fair, aren't you a door-knocker in a constituency which might not be the most receptive to her main policy?
    I'm in Dr. Sarah Wollaston's Totnes constituency.....one of the few places in the SW to vote Remain. But it is still going down very bady here.
  • Flanner said:


    [Thatcher] was a good scientist unlike all the awful PPE wankers who have followed her,

    Where does this myth come from?
    Her successors:

    Major: University of Hard Knocks
    Blair: Law
    Brown: History
    Cameron: OK: PPE
    May: Geography
    Johnson: Literae Humaniores (Philosophy and Classics)

    And if you seriously believe ancient Greek's for wimps, you're an even bigger wanker than Johnson. Which till now, I'd have thought impossible.

    Ancient Greek's not that hard.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Mr. Z, Corbyn hasn't advocated cracking down on cartels. He's advocating action of an unknown type to eliminate billionaires within the UK.

    My point is that the mechanism by which ceo remunerations rise is an actual or quasi cartel.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,236
    edited November 2019
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Mr. NorthWales, I'm more interested in how he's going to effect that.

    Straightforward seizure of private property? Punitive taxation? Exile?

    To some extent you are welcoming your new insect overlords. A small percentage of the billionaires are spiffy entrepreneurs reaping the just rewards of inventing a better vacuum cleaner. The rest are kleptocrats. We can tell this from the ludicrous increase in ceo vs average pay over the last 50 years. Either ceos have got 20x better at their jobs (they haven't) or they have got better at diverting money to themselves at the expense of the workforce and shareholders (they have). It is perfectly acceptable capitalist thought that we should identify and frustrate cartels of this sort rather than cringe in gratitude at the thought that they pay a limited amount of tax on the proceeds of the scam.
    Did you ever watch Wall Street? In it, Gordon Gecko attacked the old world, when CEOs didn't get paid much, but didn't really care about corporate performance. They enjoyed their executive dining room and the perks of power, and their businesses stagnated.

    Now, CEOs are incentivised up to their eyeballs to drive share prices. It's been a key driver of disparities.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Are the Lib Dems going to seriously target anywhere outside London ?

    South West and a couple of seats in Yorkshire.
This discussion has been closed.