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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » With the former Brexit deadline ending at 11pm how the betting

SystemSystem Posts: 12,171
edited October 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » With the former Brexit deadline ending at 11pm how the betting’s moved since Johnson came

So here we are and a third Brexit deadline is about to be missed in spite of Johnson firm assertions that we would be leaving tonight when he first became PM.

Read the full story here


«134

Comments

  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Double 1st
  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268
    Do we think the Brexit Part is going to do a massive press event tomorrow about how we are still in the EU? I can see the rumours about Farage pulling back being done to reduce expectations and making it bigger news.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    Gabs2 said:

    Do we think the Brexit Part is going to do a massive press event tomorrow about how we are still in the EU? I can see the rumours about Farage pulling back being done to reduce expectations and making it bigger news.

    I think it more likely the rumours were someone other than Farage trying to desperately bounce BXP into pulling back, from a faction of BXP who are not as anti-Boris as Farage and fear Brexit being lost. Farage I doubt ever had an intention to do so.

    So any event or news push on failing to Brexit I think was always going to be the same, regardless of GE expectations.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    Gabs2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Gabs2 said:

    nichomar said:

    Gabs2 said:

    nichomar said:

    Gabs2 said:



    Rightly so. I can think of nothing more scary than having my loved ones' fate in the hands of the Home Office.

    Try taking your children to school past armed guards every day, which is what tens of thousands of Jews do every day.
    Well you could send them to a none religious school and let the grow up in the wider society that’s available.
    Ah got it. The Jews are to blame for the mortal threats against us because we keep ourselves apart?

    F*ck you, you c*nt.
    I don’t agree with religiously serrated schools fro whatever faith, they are wrong and are at the root of a lot of the problems in the world. Why do you keep yourselves apart?
    Here I am in 2019 Britain being asked, as a Jew, why we Jews keep ourselves apart from society after a discussion about anti-Semitism and the violent threats against our children.

    This is what Corbyn and the filth around him have made mainstream. This is what will grow and fester the more votes Corbyn gets and the more Corbyn is seen as normal part of our politics.

    Please, anyone that regards themselves as liberal-minded, do NOT legitimize these people with your votes. As soon as the Corbynites go, give the Tories the biggest whacking they ever deserve. But please do not abandon British Jews with a vote for Labour until then.
    It would depend very much on Constituency. Would I vote for Chris Williamson -No. Would I vote for Lab MPs like Jess Phillips who are actively opposing anti-semitism, to quote a famous LOTO, Hell Yeah!
    Will Jess Phillips support Jeremy Corbyn as Prime Minister?
    Of course she will. She'll be a rebellious supporter who causes him difficulty, but she'll back him as PM every day of the week.
  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268
    kle4 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Gabs2 said:

    nichomar said:

    Gabs2 said:

    nichomar said:

    Gabs2 said:



    Rightly so. I can think of nothing more scary than having my loved ones' fate in the hands of the Home Office.

    Try taking your children to school past armed guards every day, which is what tens of thousands of Jews do every day.
    Well you could send them to a none religious school and let the grow up in the wider society that’s available.
    Ah got it. The Jews are to blame for the mortal threats against us because we keep ourselves apart?

    F*ck you, you c*nt.
    I don’t agree with religiously serrated schools fro whatever faith, they are wrong and are at the root of a lot of the problems in the world. Why do you keep yourselves apart?
    Here I am in 2019 Britain being asked, as a Jew, why we Jews keep ourselves apart from society after a discussion about anti-Semitism and the violent threats against our children.

    This is what Corbyn and the filth around him have made mainstream. This is what will grow and fester the more votes Corbyn gets and the more Corbyn is seen as normal part of our politics.

    Please, anyone that regards themselves as liberal-minded, do NOT legitimize these people with your votes. As soon as the Corbynites go, give the Tories the biggest whacking they ever deserve. But please do not abandon British Jews with a vote for Labour until then.
    It would depend very much on Constituency. Would I vote for Chris Williamson -No. Would I vote for Lab MPs like Jess Phillips who are actively opposing anti-semitism, to quote a famous LOTO, Hell Yeah!
    Will Jess Phillips support Jeremy Corbyn as Prime Minister?
    Of course she will. She'll be a rebellious supporter who causes him difficulty, but she'll back him as PM every day of the week.
    So she will be making the same Faustian bargain of every liberal that votes Labour. Getting their policy preferences in exchange for legitimizing the most anti-Semitic major party leader in living memory with the office of PM.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    So what happened to those Brexit riots and violence @HYUFD promised us today in London?

    They didn’t happen? Fancy that.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    Gallowgate said: "So what happened to those Brexit riots and violence"

    Why would there be? Leavers expect the Tories to win GE and deliver Brexit. The Leavers that I know (and regularly argue with) are most content and very happy with Boris.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Stocky said:

    Gallowgate said: "So what happened to those Brexit riots and violence"

    Why would there be? Leavers expect the Tories to win GE and deliver Brexit. The Leavers that I know (and regularly argue with) are most content and very happy with Boris.

    You tell me.
  • Fpt.

    Byronic said:

    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    "Stop Brexit for a brighter future". A bit vague by the Lib Dems. I think I'd go a little more DFS.

    THE £70 BILLION BREXIT BONUS!!!
    THE £70 BILLION BREXIT BONUS!!!
    THE £70 BILLION BREXIT BONUS!!!

    EVERY YEAR FOR THE NEXT TEN YEARS!!!!


    £70 Billion is over ten years, so it should be £7 Billion.
    Apparently it's £70 billion a year.

    (And as Richard said it should be 'A 70 Billion STOP Brexit Bonus'!!)
    £70 billion per year by 2029, I believe there would be a compounding effect of diminished growth, so probably only a few tens of billions of quid per year initially.
    lol. £70bn per year by 2029 means £700bn a year total, which is a third of our entire economy.

    In other words, Brexit is going to be significantly worse than the First World War.
    Its not a reduction, it’s forgone growth (the country will have a lower GDP than it otherwise might). Part of the effect is that we won’t grow as much if there are fewer immigrants and the population is smaller.
    I know. It's voodoo statistics for silly people. Idiots think it means actual loss to the economy: negative growth. Not opportunity cost.

    Even on the basis you describe, it's nonsense. It does not factor in what the UK might do to boost growth in the face of this, because that cannot be predicted or determined. So it's almost entirely useless, just like the Project Fear bollocks which predicted an immediate recession after the Brexit vote, but got it wholly wrong because the Treasury and the BoE got proactive to prevent a recession.

    The Project Fear boffins hadn't factored that in. Genius.

    All these stats from both sides are gibberish. The post Brexit future is essentially unknowable.



    What would an international male model know about macro economic forecasting? What would a writer of airport novels know about it either, come to that?
    I do male ECONOMIC modelling.
    When you have the genda reasignment surgery, you should pickle your penis and send it to SeanT! He could probably do with a replacement given his wild boasts.... :wink:
    But would iCorbyn give Rasputin a run for his rouble?

    https://twitter.com/HistoryHit/status/715615546386022404?s=20
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    I really wasn’t expecting to see a picture of Rasputin’s pickled penis on here at half past seven on a Thursday night.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,775
    FPT:
    Omnium said:

    glw said:

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    "Stop Brexit for a brighter future". A bit vague by the Lib Dems. I think I'd go a little more DFS.

    THE £70 BILLION BREXIT BONUS!!!
    THE £70 BILLION BREXIT BONUS!!!
    THE £70 BILLION BREXIT BONUS!!!

    EVERY YEAR FOR THE NEXT TEN YEARS!!!!


    £70 Billion is over ten years, so it should be £7 Billion.
    Apparently it's £70 billion a year.

    (And as Richard said it should be 'A 70 Billion STOP Brexit Bonus'!!)
    £70 billion per year by 2029, I believe there would be a compounding effect of diminished growth, so probably only a few tens of billions of quid per year initially.
    So how was the figure arrived at? Is it a GDP will have grown by a certain percentage less by 2029 than it otherwise would have? If so I would love to see the error bars...
    It was a range of forecasts of something like 22% to 27% GDP growth (from 2015 levels), remaining in the EU being the top forecast. In all scenarios growth would still be substantial, on the order of £500 billion or more.
    This is old news, and has been for nearly four years. We were debating NIESR, IMF and Capital Economics forecasts on here from late 2015 onwards.

    Both sides should stop pretending this is what this is really about. It doesn’t shift a single vote either way.
    The Economists have been lost-in-space for ages anyway. So far as I can tell every model is basically 'under review'. Actual economic modelling that people believed in went by the wayside in 2008. We now have a situation where a new set of tyres is fobbing us off from the horror story under the bonnet. That may though be a good thing.
  • StreeterStreeter Posts: 684

    I really wasn’t expecting to see a picture of Rasputin’s pickled penis on here at half past seven on a Thursday night.

    What time did you expect to see it?
  • Is she standing really far away from that penis, or.....
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    kle4 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Do we think the Brexit Part is going to do a massive press event tomorrow about how we are still in the EU? I can see the rumours about Farage pulling back being done to reduce expectations and making it bigger news.

    I think it more likely the rumours were someone other than Farage trying to desperately bounce BXP into pulling back, from a faction of BXP who are not as anti-Boris as Farage and fear Brexit being lost. Farage I doubt ever had an intention to do so.

    So any event or news push on failing to Brexit I think was always going to be the same, regardless of GE expectations.
    Farage has a bit of a quandary.

    The polls aren't great for BXP. The Tories have a squeeze on them. So if the BXP field 600 candidates, spread their resources thinly, and do about as well as Veritas and get no MPs, Farage will look a dick and a loser (which he hates). He will though, have the pleasure of being a biggish fish in the pond, before the depressing votes.

    Alternatively, he could focus on 20-30 Leaver seats, actually win a couple of MPs, and he won't look like an idiot and he can still claim to be a player going forward. BUT he won't be a star on stage interim.

    The first approach also risks letting in a Corbyn minority govt, losing Brexit entirely in a 2nd ref, and then Farage will go from cult figure to hate figure amongst his supporters: a dire outcome for Nigel.

    He has a lot of hard thinking to do. And what he decides could decide the fate of the nation.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    edited October 2019
    Omnium said: "The Economists have been lost-in-space for ages anyway. So far as I can tell every model is basically 'under review'. Actual economic modelling that people believed in went by the wayside in 2008."

    No it didn`t - this is what behavioural economists want you to believe.

    Economists knew a crash at some point was probable due to deregulation of financial markets - humans are greedy and self-interested - but it is unreasonable to expect economists to have forecasted the timing of the crash.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,124
    edited October 2019
    I am sceptical of the latest batch of polling. Tories up 8% to 41 in Mori, Labour as low as 21% with YouGov.

    I just can't see how the Tories will get 40%+, given how unpopular Boris is and how divisive Brexit is, nor can I see how Labour will not get 30% with the tribal nature of the big two parties vote.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,721
    Omnium said:

    FPT:

    Omnium said:

    glw said:

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    "Stop Brexit for a brighter future". A bit vague by the Lib Dems. I think I'd go a little more DFS.

    THE £70 BILLION BREXIT BONUS!!!
    THE £70 BILLION BREXIT BONUS!!!
    THE £70 BILLION BREXIT BONUS!!!

    EVERY YEAR FOR THE NEXT TEN YEARS!!!!


    £70 Billion is over ten years, so it should be £7 Billion.
    Apparently it's £70 billion a year.

    (And as Richard said it should be 'A 70 Billion STOP Brexit Bonus'!!)
    £70 billion per year by 2029, I believe there would be a compounding effect of diminished growth, so probably only a few tens of billions of quid per year initially.
    So how was the figure arrived at? Is it a GDP will have grown by a certain percentage less by 2029 than it otherwise would have? If so I would love to see the error bars...
    It was a range of forecasts of something like 22% to 27% GDP growth (from 2015 levels), remaining in the EU being the top forecast. In all scenarios growth would still be substantial, on the order of £500 billion or more.
    This is old news, and has been for nearly four years. We were debating NIESR, IMF and Capital Economics forecasts on here from late 2015 onwards.

    Both sides should stop pretending this is what this is really about. It doesn’t shift a single vote either way.
    The Economists have been lost-in-space for ages anyway. So far as I can tell every model is basically 'under review'. Actual economic modelling that people believed in went by the wayside in 2008. We now have a situation where a new set of tyres is fobbing us off from the horror story under the bonnet. That may though be a good thing.
    According to the article cited we have already lost 2.5% of growth over the last 42 months, losing a further 3.5% over the next 120 months seems quite a cautious prediction. No doubt we will see.

    I don't expect a Brexit induced economic slump, just a slow grinding corrosive economic stagnation.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    If we are talking charities I’ve got around three hundred circulating around Lend With Care in a number of third world small businesses that has been recycled in full three times now. Take a look if you are interested.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798
    Gabs2 said:

    kle4 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Gabs2 said:

    nichomar said:

    Gabs2 said:

    nichomar said:

    Gabs2 said:



    Rightly so. I can think of nothing more scary than having my loved ones' fate in the hands of the Home Office.

    Try taking your children to school past armed guards every day, which is what tens of thousands of Jews do every day.
    Well you could send them to a none religious school and let the grow up in the wider society that’s available.
    Ah got it. The Jews are to blame for the mortal threats against us because we keep ourselves apart?

    F*ck you, you c*nt.
    I don’t agree with religiously serrated schools fro whatever faith, they are wrong and are at the root of a lot of the problems in the world. Why do you keep yourselves apart?
    Here I am in 2019 Britain being asked, as a Jew, why we Jews keep ourselves apart from society after a discussion about anti-Semitism and the violent threats against our children.

    This is what Corbyn and the filth around him have made mainstream. This is what will grow and fester the more votes Corbyn gets and the more Corbyn is seen as normal part of our politics.

    Please, anyone that regards themselves as liberal-minded, do NOT legitimize these people with your votes. As soon as the Corbynites go, give the Tories the biggest whacking they ever deserve. But please do not abandon British Jews with a vote for Labour until then.
    It would depend very much on Constituency. Would I vote for Chris Williamson -No. Would I vote for Lab MPs like Jess Phillips who are actively opposing anti-semitism, to quote a famous LOTO, Hell Yeah!
    Will Jess Phillips support Jeremy Corbyn as Prime Minister?
    Of course she will. She'll be a rebellious supporter who causes him difficulty, but she'll back him as PM every day of the week.
    So she will be making the same Faustian bargain of every liberal that votes Labour. Getting their policy preferences in exchange for legitimizing the most anti-Semitic major party leader in living memory with the office of PM.
    I hope I would be the last person to downplay the problem of anti-Semitism - I spent Sunday taking my kids around the Anne Frank House in Amsterdam, and a very sobering afternoon it was for all of us too. But I do think you're becoming a bit of a broken record on this. We all understand your point, some of us respectfully disagree, and it's not because we don't care about anti-Semitism. It would be nice to hear your insights on other things as well.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    I am sceptical of the latest batch of polling. Tories up 8% to 41 in Mori, Labour as low as 21% with YouGov.

    I just can't see how the Tories will get 40%+, given how unpopular Boris is and how divisive Brexit is, nor can I see how Labour will not get 30% with the tribal nature of the big two parties vote.

    Boris is approved by 38% of the population. So 41% Tory support in the VI polls is entirely believable, once you add in a million people who don't like him but hate and fear Corbz even more,
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,775
    edited October 2019
    deleted attempt to fix blockquote
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    Byronic said: "He (Farage) has a lot of hard thinking to do. And what he decides could decide the fate of the nation."

    Yes, and if he has any sense he`ll compete only a few constituencies where Tories have no chance.

    My concern is that he has gone so far with BXP project - involving a lot of people - that he will feel reluctant to back-track.
  • Byronic said:

    kle4 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Do we think the Brexit Part is going to do a massive press event tomorrow about how we are still in the EU? I can see the rumours about Farage pulling back being done to reduce expectations and making it bigger news.

    I think it more likely the rumours were someone other than Farage trying to desperately bounce BXP into pulling back, from a faction of BXP who are not as anti-Boris as Farage and fear Brexit being lost. Farage I doubt ever had an intention to do so.

    So any event or news push on failing to Brexit I think was always going to be the same, regardless of GE expectations.
    Farage has a bit of a quandary.

    The polls aren't great for BXP. The Tories have a squeeze on them. So if the BXP field 600 candidates, spread their resources thinly, and do about as well as Veritas and get no MPs, Farage will look a dick and a loser (which he hates). He will though, have the pleasure of being a biggish fish in the pond, before the depressing votes.

    Alternatively, he could focus on 20-30 Leaver seats, actually win a couple of MPs, and he won't look like an idiot and he can still claim to be a player going forward. BUT he won't be a star on stage interim.

    The first approach also risks letting in a Corbyn minority govt, losing Brexit entirely in a 2nd ref, and then Farage will go from cult figure to hate figure amongst his supporters: a dire outcome for Nigel.

    He has a lot of hard thinking to do. And what he decides could decide the fate of the nation.
    Is the 'let in Corbyn' narrative really logical? Surely BXP will more likely take votes from Labour not Tories, and thus would do well to go head-to-head against Labour remainers to boost the Tory majority?
  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268
    Foxy said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Gabs2 said:

    nichomar said:

    Gabs2 said:

    nichomar said:

    Gabs2 said:



    Rightly so. I can think of nothing more scary than having my loved ones' fate in the hands of the Home Office.

    Try taking your children to school past armed guards every day, which is what tens of thousands of Jews do every day.
    Well you could send them to a none religious school and let the grow up in the wider society that’s available.
    Ah got it. The Jews are to blame for the mortal threats against us because we keep ourselves apart?

    F*ck you, you c*nt.
    I don’t agree with religiously serrated schools fro whatever faith, they are wrong and are at the root of a lot of the problems in the world. Why do you keep yourselves apart?
    Here I am in 2019 Britain being asked, as a Jew, why we Jews keep ourselves apart from society after a discussion about anti-Semitism and the violent threats against our children.

    This is what Corbyn and the filth around him have made mainstream. This is what will grow and fester the more votes Corbyn gets and the more Corbyn is seen as normal part of our politics.

    Please, anyone that regards themselves as liberal-minded, do NOT legitimize these people with your votes. As soon as the Corbynites go, give the Tories the biggest whacking they ever deserve. But please do not abandon British Jews with a vote for Labour until then.
    It would depend very much on Constituency. Would I vote for Chris Williamson -No. Would I vote for Lab MPs like Jess Phillips who are actively opposing anti-semitism, to quote a famous LOTO, Hell Yeah!
    Will Jess Phillips support Jeremy Corbyn as Prime Minister?
    I expect that she will be a thorn in his side, mostly by being more popular than him. Next leader imo.

    Would you refuse to vote for Miliband, Smeeth or Hodge because of Corbyn's anti-semitism?
    As long as they support Corbyn as Prime Minister, yes. And you didn't answer my question. Will Jess Phillips support Corbyn to be PM?
  • Byronic said:

    kle4 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Do we think the Brexit Part is going to do a massive press event tomorrow about how we are still in the EU? I can see the rumours about Farage pulling back being done to reduce expectations and making it bigger news.

    I think it more likely the rumours were someone other than Farage trying to desperately bounce BXP into pulling back, from a faction of BXP who are not as anti-Boris as Farage and fear Brexit being lost. Farage I doubt ever had an intention to do so.

    So any event or news push on failing to Brexit I think was always going to be the same, regardless of GE expectations.
    Farage has a bit of a quandary.

    The polls aren't great for BXP. The Tories have a squeeze on them. So if the BXP field 600 candidates, spread their resources thinly, and do about as well as Veritas and get no MPs, Farage will look a dick and a loser (which he hates). He will though, have the pleasure of being a biggish fish in the pond, before the depressing votes.

    Alternatively, he could focus on 20-30 Leaver seats, actually win a couple of MPs, and he won't look like an idiot and he can still claim to be a player going forward. BUT he won't be a star on stage interim.

    The first approach also risks letting in a Corbyn minority govt, losing Brexit entirely in a 2nd ref, and then Farage will go from cult figure to hate figure amongst his supporters: a dire outcome for Nigel.

    He has a lot of hard thinking to do. And what he decides could decide the fate of the nation.
    The question is does he really want to do everything to ensure Brexit happens, or does he want to be able to say look I told you the elite would stop it etc etc etc. The first he becomes an irrelevance in 6 weeks time, the other he gets years of being able to be in the spotlight.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    Streeter said:

    I really wasn’t expecting to see a picture of Rasputin’s pickled penis on here at half past seven on a Thursday night.

    What time did you expect to see it?
    After the lagershed.

    Then anything goes.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331

    So what happened to those Brexit riots and violence @HYUFD promised us today in London?

    They didn’t happen? Fancy that.

    So what happened to those Brexit riots and violence @HYUFD promised us today in London?

    They didn’t happen? Fancy that.

    I did encounter a bone-headed protester chanting ‘What do we want? Brexit. When do we want it ...’ as I headed for Westminster Tube Station this evening.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    I really wasn’t expecting to see a picture of Rasputin’s pickled penis on here at half past seven on a Thursday night.

    Apposite.

    Were you expecting me to see a picture of Rasputin’s pickled penis on here at half past seven on a Thursday night?

    No, Mr Royale...
  • Farage is tweeting another bit of the interview where he’s clearly teed up Trump to say he has no interest in our healthcare system being in scope (in reality that’s obviously true and what his officials are talking about is more about drug pricing but Corbyn’s the one saying “our NHS” will be up for grabs, so that’s where the debate it). If enough US officials repeat that line as a favour to Boris it will have an impact.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Gabs2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Gabs2 said:

    nichomar said:

    Gabs2 said:

    nichomar said:

    Gabs2 said:



    Rightly so. I can think of nothing more scary than having my loved ones' fate in the hands of the Home Office.

    Try taking your children to school past armed guards every day, which is what tens of thousands of Jews do every day.
    Well you could send them to a none religious school and let the grow up in the wider society that’s available.
    Ah got it. The Jews are to blame for the mortal threats against us because we keep ourselves apart?

    F*ck you, you c*nt.
    I don’t agree with religiously serrated schools fro whatever faith, they are wrong and are at the root of a lot of the problems in the world. Why do you keep yourselves apart?
    Here I am in 2019 Britain being asked, as a Jew, why we Jews keep ourselves apart from society after a discussion about anti-Semitism and the violent threats against our children.

    This is what Corbyn and the filth around him have made mainstream. This is what will grow and fester the more votes Corbyn gets and the more Corbyn is seen as normal part of our politics.

    Please, anyone that regards themselves as liberal-minded, do NOT legitimize these people with your votes. As soon as the Corbynites go, give the Tories the biggest whacking they ever deserve. But please do not abandon British Jews with a vote for Labour until then.
    It would depend very much on Constituency. Would I vote for Chris Williamson -No. Would I vote for Lab MPs like Jess Phillips who are actively opposing anti-semitism, to quote a famous LOTO, Hell Yeah!
    Will Jess Phillips support Jeremy Corbyn as Prime Minister?
    I expect that she will be a thorn in his side, mostly by being more popular than him. Next leader imo.

    Would you refuse to vote for Miliband, Smeeth or Hodge because of Corbyn's anti-semitism?
    As long as they support Corbyn as Prime Minister, yes. And you didn't answer my question. Will Jess Phillips support Corbyn to be PM?
    By taking the labour whip she supports the leader.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    Off topic: I walked home this evening, anticipating to encounter yummy mummies dressed as witches. Alas, I was disappointed.

    However, what I did see was....

    Christmas lights in someone's front garden. On Halloween. FFS.
  • Byronic said:

    kle4 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Do we think the Brexit Part is going to do a massive press event tomorrow about how we are still in the EU? I can see the rumours about Farage pulling back being done to reduce expectations and making it bigger news.

    I think it more likely the rumours were someone other than Farage trying to desperately bounce BXP into pulling back, from a faction of BXP who are not as anti-Boris as Farage and fear Brexit being lost. Farage I doubt ever had an intention to do so.

    So any event or news push on failing to Brexit I think was always going to be the same, regardless of GE expectations.
    Farage has a bit of a quandary.

    The polls aren't great for BXP. The Tories have a squeeze on them. So if the BXP field 600 candidates, spread their resources thinly, and do about as well as Veritas and get no MPs, Farage will look a dick and a loser (which he hates). He will though, have the pleasure of being a biggish fish in the pond, before the depressing votes.

    Alternatively, he could focus on 20-30 Leaver seats, actually win a couple of MPs, and he won't look like an idiot and he can still claim to be a player going forward. BUT he won't be a star on stage interim.

    The first approach also risks letting in a Corbyn minority govt, losing Brexit entirely in a 2nd ref, and then Farage will go from cult figure to hate figure amongst his supporters: a dire outcome for Nigel.

    He has a lot of hard thinking to do. And what he decides could decide the fate of the nation.
    The question is does he really want to do everything to ensure Brexit happens, or does he want to be able to say look I told you the elite would stop it etc etc etc. The first he becomes an irrelevance in 6 weeks time, the other he gets years of being able to be in the spotlight.
    You'll get the answer by seeing in which constituency Farage stands.

    If its a Labour Leave constituency such as Cooper's or EdM's then its the former, if its a Conservative constituency then its the latter.
  • Byronic said:

    kle4 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Do we think the Brexit Part is going to do a massive press event tomorrow about how we are still in the EU? I can see the rumours about Farage pulling back being done to reduce expectations and making it bigger news.

    I think it more likely the rumours were someone other than Farage trying to desperately bounce BXP into pulling back, from a faction of BXP who are not as anti-Boris as Farage and fear Brexit being lost. Farage I doubt ever had an intention to do so.

    So any event or news push on failing to Brexit I think was always going to be the same, regardless of GE expectations.
    Farage has a bit of a quandary.

    The polls aren't great for BXP. The Tories have a squeeze on them. So if the BXP field 600 candidates, spread their resources thinly, and do about as well as Veritas and get no MPs, Farage will look a dick and a loser (which he hates). He will though, have the pleasure of being a biggish fish in the pond, before the depressing votes.

    Alternatively, he could focus on 20-30 Leaver seats, actually win a couple of MPs, and he won't look like an idiot and he can still claim to be a player going forward. BUT he won't be a star on stage interim.

    The first approach also risks letting in a Corbyn minority govt, losing Brexit entirely in a 2nd ref, and then Farage will go from cult figure to hate figure amongst his supporters: a dire outcome for Nigel.

    He has a lot of hard thinking to do. And what he decides could decide the fate of the nation.
    The question is does he really want to do everything to ensure Brexit happens, or does he want to be able to say look I told you the elite would stop it etc etc etc. The first he becomes an irrelevance in 6 weeks time, the other he gets years of being able to be in the spotlight.
    This is probably closer to the truth. Meal ticket and speaker circuit for life saying "We woz robbed"...
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,775
    Stocky said:

    Omnium said: "The Economists have been lost-in-space for ages anyway. So far as I can tell every model is basically 'under review'. Actual economic modelling that people believed in went by the wayside in 2008."

    No it didn`t - this is what behavioural economists want you to believe.

    Economists knew a crash at some point was probable due to deregulation of financial markets - humans are greedy and self-interested - but it is unreasonable to expect economists to have forecasted the timing of the crash.

    Of course economists knew a crash was inevitable at some point. It's simply a fact. I don't think you meant that the inevitable crash was due to financial deregulation, there is always an inevitable crash.

    I've not met a behavioral economist, let alone been influenced by one.

    I think it's entirely reasonable to expect economists to predict all sorts of things given their apparent wisdom expressed every day on the news.

    Privately they will tell you that they don't have a clue currently. (Or that's so in my experience)

  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Byronic said:

    kle4 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Do we think the Brexit Part is going to do a massive press event tomorrow about how we are still in the EU? I can see the rumours about Farage pulling back being done to reduce expectations and making it bigger news.

    I think it more likely the rumours were someone other than Farage trying to desperately bounce BXP into pulling back, from a faction of BXP who are not as anti-Boris as Farage and fear Brexit being lost. Farage I doubt ever had an intention to do so.

    So any event or news push on failing to Brexit I think was always going to be the same, regardless of GE expectations.
    Farage has a bit of a quandary.

    The polls aren't great for BXP. The Tories have a squeeze on them. So if the BXP field 600 candidates, spread their resources thinly, and do about as well as Veritas and get no MPs, Farage will look a dick and a loser (which he hates). He will though, have the pleasure of being a biggish fish in the pond, before the depressing votes.

    Alternatively, he could focus on 20-30 Leaver seats, actually win a couple of MPs, and he won't look like an idiot and he can still claim to be a player going forward. BUT he won't be a star on stage interim.

    The first approach also risks letting in a Corbyn minority govt, losing Brexit entirely in a 2nd ref, and then Farage will go from cult figure to hate figure amongst his supporters: a dire outcome for Nigel.

    He has a lot of hard thinking to do. And what he decides could decide the fate of the nation.
    The question is does he really want to do everything to ensure Brexit happens, or does he want to be able to say look I told you the elite would stop it etc etc etc. The first he becomes an irrelevance in 6 weeks time, the other he gets years of being able to be in the spotlight.
    You'll get the answer by seeing in which constituency Farage stands.

    If its a Labour Leave constituency such as Cooper's or EdM's then its the former, if its a Conservative constituency then its the latter.
    I just don't think Farage could cope with the withering hatred of all eurosceptics, if he fucked up the election for Boris, let in Corbyn, and then lost Brexit entirely.

    He would be loathed by most Leavers AND Remainers for the rest of his life.

    But he's a vain man. The limelight will tempt. We shall see.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,721
    edited October 2019
    Gabs2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Gabs2 said:

    nichomar said:

    Gabs2 said:

    nichomar said:

    Gabs2 said:



    Rightly so. I can think of nothing more scary than having my loved ones' fate in the hands of the Home Office.

    Try taking your children to school past armed guards every day, which is what tens of thousands of Jews do every day.
    Well you could send them to a none religious school and let the grow up in the wider society that’s available.
    Ah got it. The Jews are to blame for the mortal threats against us because we keep ourselves apart?

    F*ck you, you c*nt.
    I don’t agree with religiously serrated schools fro whatever faith, they are wrong and are at the root of a lot of the problems in the world. Why do you keep yourselves apart?
    Here I am in 2019 Britain being asked, as a Jew, why we Jews keep ourselves apart from society after a discussion about anti-Semitism and the violent threats against our children.

    This is what Corbyn and the filth around him have made mainstream. This is what will grow and fester the more votes Corbyn gets and the more Corbyn is seen as normal part of our politics.

    Please, anyone that regards themselves as liberal-minded, do NOT legitimize these people with your votes. As soon as the Corbynites go, give the Tories the biggest whacking they ever deserve. But please do not abandon British Jews with a vote for Labour until then.
    It would depend very much on Constituency. Would I vote for Chris Williamson -No. Would I vote for Lab MPs like Jess Phillips who are actively opposing anti-semitism, to quote a famous LOTO, Hell Yeah!
    Will Jess Phillips support Jeremy Corbyn as Prime Minister?
    I expect that she will be a thorn in his side, mostly by being more popular than him. Next leader imo.

    Would you refuse to vote for Miliband, Smeeth or Hodge because of Corbyn's anti-semitism?
    As long as they support Corbyn as Prime Minister, yes. And you didn't answer my question. Will Jess Phillips support Corbyn to be PM?
    I expect so.

    While clearly antisemitism decides your vote against Labour with no exceptions, for me if a Labour candidate has opposed antisemitism, then I would consider voting for them.

    I will be voting LD in my constituency though.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,234

    I really wasn’t expecting to see a picture of Rasputin’s pickled penis on here at half past seven on a Thursday night.

    Whose pickled penis were you expecting to see?
  • Foxy said:

    Omnium said:

    FPT:

    Omnium said:

    glw said:

    Foxy said:


    £70 billion per year by 2029, I believe there would be a compounding effect of diminished growth, so probably only a few tens of billions of quid per year initially.

    So how was the figure arrived at? Is it a GDP will have grown by a certain percentage less by 2029 than it otherwise would have? If so I would love to see the error bars...
    It was a range of forecasts of something like 22% to 27% GDP growth (from 2015 levels), remaining in the EU being the top forecast. In all scenarios growth would still be substantial, on the order of £500 billion or more.
    This is old news, and has been for nearly four years. We were debating NIESR, IMF and Capital Economics forecasts on here from late 2015 onwards.

    Both sides should stop pretending this is what this is really about. It doesn’t shift a single vote either way.
    The Economists have been lost-in-space for ages anyway. So far as I can tell every model is basically 'under review'. Actual economic modelling that people believed in went by the wayside in 2008. We now have a situation where a new set of tyres is fobbing us off from the horror story under the bonnet. That may though be a good thing.
    According to the article cited we have already lost 2.5% of growth over the last 42 months, losing a further 3.5% over the next 120 months seems quite a cautious prediction. No doubt we will see.

    I don't expect a Brexit induced economic slump, just a slow grinding corrosive economic stagnation.
    I'm curious as to where this 2.5% of extra growth would be.

    Certainly not in manufacturing or anything else export oriented as the exchange rate would be less competitive.

    I can't see construction being in any more than a boom than it has been and government services would be no different to what they have been.

    So that leaves an even bigger consumption bubble - more spending on more imports.

    And that together with the absence of the hundreds of billions of extra exports we've had in that period would have led to a monumental balance of payments crisis.

    Of course pretty much all large western economies have struggled for growth in the last 18 months so I don't see why the UK would have done better than any of them as is apparently claimed.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    kle4 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Do we think the Brexit Part is going to do a massive press event tomorrow about how we are still in the EU? I can see the rumours about Farage pulling back being done to reduce expectations and making it bigger news.

    I think it more likely the rumours were someone other than Farage trying to desperately bounce BXP into pulling back, from a faction of BXP who are not as anti-Boris as Farage and fear Brexit being lost. Farage I doubt ever had an intention to do so.

    So any event or news push on failing to Brexit I think was always going to be the same, regardless of GE expectations.
    Farage has a bit of a quandary.

    The polls aren't great for BXP. The Tories have a squeeze on them. So if the BXP field 600 candidates, spread their resources thinly, and do about as well as Veritas and get no MPs, Farage will look a dick and a loser (which he hates). He will though, have the pleasure of being a biggish fish in the pond, before the depressing votes.

    Alternatively, he could focus on 20-30 Leaver seats, actually win a couple of MPs, and he won't look like an idiot and he can still claim to be a player going forward. BUT he won't be a star on stage interim.

    The first approach also risks letting in a Corbyn minority govt, losing Brexit entirely in a 2nd ref, and then Farage will go from cult figure to hate figure amongst his supporters: a dire outcome for Nigel.

    He has a lot of hard thinking to do. And what he decides could decide the fate of the nation.
    The question is does he really want to do everything to ensure Brexit happens, or does he want to be able to say look I told you the elite would stop it etc etc etc. The first he becomes an irrelevance in 6 weeks time, the other he gets years of being able to be in the spotlight.
    You'll get the answer by seeing in which constituency Farage stands.

    If its a Labour Leave constituency such as Cooper's or EdM's then its the former, if its a Conservative constituency then its the latter.
    I just don't think Farage could cope with the withering hatred of all eurosceptics, if he fucked up the election for Boris, let in Corbyn, and then lost Brexit entirely.

    He would be loathed by most Leavers AND Remainers for the rest of his life.

    But he's a vain man. The limelight will tempt. We shall see.
    Johnson’s deal isn’t brexit that answered your question.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,721

    Streeter said:

    I really wasn’t expecting to see a picture of Rasputin’s pickled penis on here at half past seven on a Thursday night.

    What time did you expect to see it?
    After the lagershed.

    Then anything goes.
    Are children of delicate disposition big surfers of PB?
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    isam said:
    This was surely another stunt initiated by Jon Culshaw?
  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268



    I hope I would be the last person to downplay the problem of anti-Semitism - I spent Sunday taking my kids around the Anne Frank House in Amsterdam, and a very sobering afternoon it was for all of us too. But I do think you're becoming a bit of a broken record on this. We all understand your point, some of us respectfully disagree, and it's not because we don't care about anti-Semitism. It would be nice to hear your insights on other things as well.

    I understand your position as many of my gentile friends felt the same. But I have come to the conclusion people don't realise how widespread Anti-Semitism has become if you're not a Jew.

    Growing up, I barely ever experienced it. Now I hear anti-Semitic smears and narratives on a very regular basis. As mentioned on the last thread, we have to have armed guards in our temples, schools and community centres. Anywhere Jews visibly gather is a group is such a risk from bigots slaughtering us that we need protection. This makes us feel very scared. My kids are inevitably going to grow up being much more aware how they are seen as "different" than I am.

    So I don't think you are deliberately minimizing Anti-Semitism. I think you, like most of the population, just don't get it. Us Jews increasingly feel like we are being pushed out of the mainstream, forced to live an existence where we hide our ancestry or live in a parallel society, being faced by a constant threat that non-Jews never notice. Every vote for Jeremy Corbyn makes most of us feel more insecure. If he became PM we would be very scared for what is next. I know several friends who have seriously discussed emigration options if he gets in.

    Please don't feel judged for underestimating what we are going through. I know I am absent minded enough I probably would not notice if I wasn't Jewish. But just listen to us. Read up on what Jewish organizations are saying and take them seriously. Talk to your Jewish friends. Vote thinking of us.
  • Foxy said:

    Streeter said:

    I really wasn’t expecting to see a picture of Rasputin’s pickled penis on here at half past seven on a Thursday night.

    What time did you expect to see it?
    After the lagershed.

    Then anything goes.
    Are children of delicate disposition big surfers of PB?
    Every PB thread needs a Willy :lol:
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,721

    Foxy said:

    Omnium said:

    FPT:

    Omnium said:

    glw said:

    Foxy said:


    £70 billion per year by 2029, I believe there would be a compounding effect of diminished growth, so probably only a few tens of billions of quid per year initially.

    So how was the figure arrived at? Is it a GDP will have grown by a certain percentage less by 2029 than it otherwise would have? If so I would love to see the error bars...
    It was a range of forecasts of something like 22% to 27% GDP growth (from 2015 levels), remaining in the EU being the top forecast. In all scenarios growth would still be substantial, on the order of £500 billion or more.
    This is old news, and has been for nearly four years. We were debating NIESR, IMF and Capital Economics forecasts on here from late 2015 onwards.

    Both sides should stop pretending this is what this is really about. It doesn’t shift a single vote either way.
    The Economists have been lost-in-space for ages anyway. So far as I can tell every model is basically 'under review'. Actual economic modelling that people believed in went by the wayside in 2008. We now have a situation where a new set of tyres is fobbing us off from the horror story under the bonnet. That may though be a good thing.
    According to the article cited we have already lost 2.5% of growth over the last 42 months, losing a further 3.5% over the next 120 months seems quite a cautious prediction. No doubt we will see.

    I don't expect a Brexit induced economic slump, just a slow grinding corrosive economic stagnation.
    I'm curious as to where this 2.5% of extra growth would be.

    Certainly not in manufacturing or anything else export oriented as the exchange rate would be less competitive.

    I can't see construction being in any more than a boom than it has been and government services would be no different to what they have been.

    So that leaves an even bigger consumption bubble - more spending on more imports.

    And that together with the absence of the hundreds of billions of extra exports we've had in that period would have led to a monumental balance of payments crisis.

    Of course pretty much all large western economies have struggled for growth in the last 18 months so I don't see why the UK would have done better than any of them as is apparently claimed.
    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/002795011925000103

    Is the relevant article. Fig 2 is the graph in question, so read the surrounding text.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    edited October 2019
    nichomar said:

    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    kle4 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Do we think the Brexit Part is going to do a massive press event tomorrow about how we are still in the EU? I can see the rumours about Farage pulling back being done to reduce expectations and making it bigger news.

    I think it more likely the rumours were someone other than Farage trying to desperately bounce BXP into pulling back, from a faction of BXP who are not as anti-Boris as Farage and fear Brexit being lost. Farage I doubt ever had an intention to do so.

    So any event or news push on failing to Brexit I think was always going to be the same, regardless of GE expectations.
    Farag.

    He has a lot of hard thinking to do. And what he decides could decide the fate of the nation.
    The question is does he really want to do everything to ensure Brexit happens, or does he want to be able to say look I told you the elite would stop it etc etc etc. The first he becomes an irrelevance in 6 weeks time, the other he gets years of being able to be in the spotlight.
    You'll get the answer by seeing in which constituency Farage stands.

    If its a Labour Leave constituency such as Cooper's or EdM's then its the former, if its a Conservative constituency then its the latter.
    I just don't think Farage could cope with the withering hatred of all eurosceptics, if he fucked up the election for Boris, let in Corbyn, and then lost Brexit entirely.

    He would be loathed by most Leavers AND Remainers for the rest of his life.

    But he's a vain man. The limelight will tempt. We shall see.
    Johnson’s deal isn’t brexit that answered your question.
    It's a really niche argument tho. Most Leavers just want any Brexit now.

    What is much more obvious is: the BXP splitting the Leave vote, Corbyn becomes PM, calls a 2nd referendum, and Brexit is cancelled.

    Farage would be pilloried far and wide, by even his close supporters. It's a massive risk for him.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    Fpt.

    Byronic said:

    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    "Stop Brexit for a brighter future". A bit vague by the Lib Dems. I think I'd go a little more DFS.

    THE £70 BILLION BREXIT BONUS!!!
    THE £70 BILLION BREXIT BONUS!!!
    THE £70 BILLION BREXIT BONUS!!!

    EVERY YEAR FOR THE NEXT TEN YEARS!!!!


    £70 Billion is over ten years, so it should be £7 Billion.
    Apparently it's £70 billion a year.

    (And as Richard said it should be 'A 70 Billion STOP Brexit Bonus'!!)
    £70 billion per year by 2029, I believe there would be a compounding effect of diminished growth, so probably only a few tens of billions of quid per year initially.
    lol. £70bn per year by 2029 means £700bn a year total, which is a third of our entire economy.

    In other words, Brexit is going to be significantly worse than the First World War.
    Its not a reduction, it’s forgone growth (the country will have a lower GDP than it otherwise might). Part of the effect is that we won’t grow as much if there are fewer immigrants and the population is smaller.
    I know. It's voodoo statistics for silly people. Idiots think it means actual loss to the economy: negative growth. Not opportunity cost.

    Even on the basis you describe, it's nonsense. It does not factor in what the UK might do to boost growth in the face of this, because that cannot be predicted or determined. So it's almost entirely useless, just like the Project Fear bollocks which predicted an immediate recession after the Brexit vote, but got it wholly wrong because the Treasury and the BoE got proactive to prevent a recession.

    The Project Fear boffins hadn't factored that in. Genius.

    All these stats from both sides are gibberish. The post Brexit future is essentially unknowable.



    What would an international male model know about macro economic forecasting? What would a writer of airport novels know about it either, come to that?
    I do male ECONOMIC modelling.
    When you have the genda reasignment surgery, you should pickle your penis and send it to SeanT! He could probably do with a replacement given his wild boasts.... :wink:
    But would iCorbyn give Rasputin a run for his rouble?

    https://twitter.com/HistoryHit/status/715615546386022404?s=20
    It gives a whole new meaning to the phrase Honourable Member ...
  • PaulMPaulM Posts: 613
    Barnesian
    FPT
    Your model for St Albans has LD 37,000, Con 22,000 Labour 0
    I know there will be tactical voting, but is there a bug somewhere ?
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    edited October 2019
    PaulM said:

    Barnesian
    FPT
    Your model for St Albans has LD 37,000, Con 22,000 Labour 0
    I know there will be tactical voting, but is there a bug somewhere ?

    Too many Labour votes predicted? :D
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,285
    edited October 2019
    Best non-election story of the day? https://theguardian.com/us-news/2019/oct/31/goats-save-ronald-reagan-library-wildfire

    EDIT Not sure the link works exactly, but the headline should say it all.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Byronic said:

    kle4 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Do we think the Brexit Part is going to do a massive press event tomorrow about how we are still in the EU? I can see the rumours about Farage pulling back being done to reduce expectations and making it bigger news.

    I think it more likely the rumours were someone other than Farage trying to desperately bounce BXP into pulling back, from a faction of BXP who are not as anti-Boris as Farage and fear Brexit being lost. Farage I doubt ever had an intention to do so.

    So any event or news push on failing to Brexit I think was always going to be the same, regardless of GE expectations.
    Farage has a bit of a quandary.

    The polls aren't great for BXP. The Tories have a squeeze on them. So if the BXP field 600 candidates, spread their resources thinly, and do about as well as Veritas and get no MPs, Farage will look a dick and a loser (which he hates). He will though, have the pleasure of being a biggish fish in the pond, before the depressing votes.

    Alternatively, he could focus on 20-30 Leaver seats, actually win a couple of MPs, and he won't look like an idiot and he can still claim to be a player going forward. BUT he won't be a star on stage interim.

    The first approach also risks letting in a Corbyn minority govt, losing Brexit entirely in a 2nd ref, and then Farage will go from cult figure to hate figure amongst his supporters: a dire outcome for Nigel.

    He has a lot of hard thinking to do. And what he decides could decide the fate of the nation.
    I don't think he has the chance of winning any seats unless he has all the assistance from the air war that standing in all 600+ would give him - Party Election Broadcast, time on the BBC, in the leader's debate for the minor parties, that sort of thing.

    If he talks about concentrating on a small number of seats and not standing against the Tories in hundreds of them then it's just about avoiding humiliation.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798
    Gabs2 said:



    I hope I would be the last person to downplay the problem of anti-Semitism - I spent Sunday taking my kids around the Anne Frank House in Amsterdam, and a very sobering afternoon it was for all of us too. But I do think you're becoming a bit of a broken record on this. We all understand your point, some of us respectfully disagree, and it's not because we don't care about anti-Semitism. It would be nice to hear your insights on other things as well.

    I understand your position as many of my gentile friends felt the same. But I have come to the conclusion people don't realise how widespread Anti-Semitism has become if you're not a Jew.

    Growing up, I barely ever experienced it. Now I hear anti-Semitic smears and narratives on a very regular basis. As mentioned on the last thread, we have to have armed guards in our temples, schools and community centres. Anywhere Jews visibly gather is a group is such a risk from bigots slaughtering us that we need protection. This makes us feel very scared. My kids are inevitably going to grow up being much more aware how they are seen as "different" than I am.

    So I don't think you are deliberately minimizing Anti-Semitism. I think you, like most of the population, just don't get it. Us Jews increasingly feel like we are being pushed out of the mainstream, forced to live an existence where we hide our ancestry or live in a parallel society, being faced by a constant threat that non-Jews never notice. Every vote for Jeremy Corbyn makes most of us feel more insecure. If he became PM we would be very scared for what is next. I know several friends who have seriously discussed emigration options if he gets in.

    Please don't feel judged for underestimating what we are going through. I know I am absent minded enough I probably would not notice if I wasn't Jewish. But just listen to us. Read up on what Jewish organizations are saying and take them seriously. Talk to your Jewish friends. Vote thinking of us.
    I get all this but my Jewish friends and acquaintances don't seem that fussed about Corbyn, in fact some of them seem to like him more than I do. I am part of a mixed race family so I certainly have some understanding of issues around racism. When I hear the language that Johnson has used about minorities, eg the Piccanninies comment (that he must have known was echoing Enoch Powell) and the pillarboxes comments (which led to an upsurge in attacks on Muslim women) he seems like a threat to my kids.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,775

    Foxy said:

    Streeter said:

    I really wasn’t expecting to see a picture of Rasputin’s pickled penis on here at half past seven on a Thursday night.

    What time did you expect to see it?
    After the lagershed.

    Then anything goes.
    Are children of delicate disposition big surfers of PB?
    Every PB thread needs a Willy :lol:
    Is there a biography of Willy Whitelaw worth reading?

    (Obviously I know I can just look it up. So from PB perspective)
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    PaulM said:

    Barnesian
    FPT
    Your model for St Albans has LD 37,000, Con 22,000 Labour 0
    I know there will be tactical voting, but is there a bug somewhere ?

    No, he seems to think that will actually happen
  • PaulMPaulM Posts: 613

    Byronic said:

    kle4 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Do we think the Brexit Part is going to do a massive press event tomorrow about how we are still in the EU? I can see the rumours about Farage pulling back being done to reduce expectations and making it bigger news.

    I think it more likely the rumours were someone other than Farage trying to desperately bounce BXP into pulling back, from a faction of BXP who are not as anti-Boris as Farage and fear Brexit being lost. Farage I doubt ever had an intention to do so.

    So any event or news push on failing to Brexit I think was always going to be the same, regardless of GE expectations.
    Farage has a bit of a quandary.

    The polls aren't great for BXP. The Tories have a squeeze on them. So if the BXP field 600 candidates, spread their resources thinly, and do about as well as Veritas and get no MPs, Farage will look a dick and a loser (which he hates). He will though, have the pleasure of being a biggish fish in the pond, before the depressing votes.

    Alternatively, he could focus on 20-30 Leaver seats, actually win a couple of MPs, and he won't look like an idiot and he can still claim to be a player going forward. BUT he won't be a star on stage interim.

    The first approach also risks letting in a Corbyn minority govt, losing Brexit entirely in a 2nd ref, and then Farage will go from cult figure to hate figure amongst his supporters: a dire outcome for Nigel.

    He has a lot of hard thinking to do. And what he decides could decide the fate of the nation.
    I don't think he has the chance of winning any seats unless he has all the assistance from the air war that standing in all 600+ would give him - Party Election Broadcast, time on the BBC, in the leader's debate for the minor parties, that sort of thing.

    If he talks about concentrating on a small number of seats and not standing against the Tories in hundreds of them then it's just about avoiding humiliation.
    How are the rules written. If for instance BXP stood in every seat in Wales would that get them into the debates/PPB etc ?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,487
    Christ. Spotlight: The Secret History of the Troubles (iPlayer) is incredible.

    A piece of documentary making with few peers.

    Thanks to Spudfish for the tip.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,613
    Byronic said:

    I am sceptical of the latest batch of polling. Tories up 8% to 41 in Mori, Labour as low as 21% with YouGov.

    I just can't see how the Tories will get 40%+, given how unpopular Boris is and how divisive Brexit is, nor can I see how Labour will not get 30% with the tribal nature of the big two parties vote.

    Boris is approved by 38% of the population. So 41% Tory support in the VI polls is entirely believable, once you add in a million people who don't like him but hate and fear Corbz even more,
    Corbz really does get brought up unprompted as a bogey man by the voters. I saw it again several times this afternoon.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Omnium said:

    Stocky said:

    Omnium said: "The Economists have been lost-in-space for ages anyway. So far as I can tell every model is basically 'under review'. Actual economic modelling that people believed in went by the wayside in 2008."

    No it didn`t - this is what behavioural economists want you to believe.

    Economists knew a crash at some point was probable due to deregulation of financial markets - humans are greedy and self-interested - but it is unreasonable to expect economists to have forecasted the timing of the crash.

    Of course economists knew a crash was inevitable at some point. It's simply a fact. I don't think you meant that the inevitable crash was due to financial deregulation, there is always an inevitable crash.

    I've not met a behavioral economist, let alone been influenced by one.

    I think it's entirely reasonable to expect economists to predict all sorts of things given their apparent wisdom expressed every day on the news.

    Privately they will tell you that they don't have a clue currently. (Or that's so in my experience)

    If they are so smart where are their superyachts?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,622
    edited October 2019
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:


    According to the article cited we have already lost 2.5% of growth over the last 42 months, losing a further 3.5% over the next 120 months seems quite a cautious prediction. No doubt we will see.

    I don't expect a Brexit induced economic slump, just a slow grinding corrosive economic stagnation.

    I'm curious as to where this 2.5% of extra growth would be.

    Certainly not in manufacturing or anything else export oriented as the exchange rate would be less competitive.

    I can't see construction being in any more than a boom than it has been and government services would be no different to what they have been.

    So that leaves an even bigger consumption bubble - more spending on more imports.

    And that together with the absence of the hundreds of billions of extra exports we've had in that period would have led to a monumental balance of payments crisis.

    Of course pretty much all large western economies have struggled for growth in the last 18 months so I don't see why the UK would have done better than any of them as is apparently claimed.
    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/002795011925000103

    Is the relevant article. Fig 2 is the graph in question, so read the surrounding text.
    It seems to be rather vague on data and big on casual extrapolations plus I didn't see any mention of how exports have been boosted by the change in sterling value.

    I really doubt the increased business investment the report bigs up would have happened - a look at bond yields shows that there is a general malaise in that area.

    I suspect the brutal truth is that the western world is in for a long period of low growth.
  • Fpt.

    Byronic said:

    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    "Stop Brexit for a brighter future". A bit vague by the Lib Dems. I think I'd go a little more DFS.

    THE £70 BILLION BREXIT BONUS!!!
    THE £70 BILLION BREXIT BONUS!!!
    THE £70 BILLION BREXIT BONUS!!!

    EVERY YEAR FOR THE NEXT TEN YEARS!!!!


    £70 Billion is over ten years, so it should be £7 Billion.
    Apparently it's £70 billion a year.

    (And as Richard said it should be 'A 70 Billion STOP Brexit Bonus'!!)
    £70 billion per year by 2029, I believe there would be a compounding effect of diminished growth, so probably only a few tens of billions of quid per year initially.
    lol. £70bn per year by 2029 means £700bn a year total, which is a third of our entire economy.

    In other words, Brexit is going to be significantly worse than the First World War.
    Its not a reduction, it’s forgone growth (the country will have a lower GDP than it otherwise might). Part of the effect is that we won’t grow as much if there are fewer immigrants and the population is smaller.
    I know. It's voodoo statistics for silly people. Idiots think it means actual loss to the economy: negative growth. Not opportunity cost.


    The Project Fear boffins hadn't factored that in. Genius.

    All these stats from both sides are gibberish. The post Brexit future is essentially unknowable.



    What would an international male model know about macro economic forecasting? What would a writer of airport novels know about it either, come to that?
    I do male ECONOMIC modelling.
    When you have the genda reasignment surgery, you should pickle your penis and send it to SeanT! He could probably do with a replacement given his wild boasts.... :wink:
    But would iCorbyn give Rasputin a run for his rouble?

    https://twitter.com/HistoryHit/status/715615546386022404?s=20
    It gives a whole new meaning to the phrase Honourable Member ...
    Who was saying they were off to Iceland? Forgot to tell them to visit the Penis Museum.
  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268
    edited October 2019

    Gabs2 said:


    I understand your position as many of my gentile friends felt the same. But I have come to the conclusion people don't realise how widespread Anti-Semitism has become if you're not a Jew.

    Now I hear anti-Semitic smears and narratives on a very regular basis. As mentioned on the last thread, we have to have armed guards in our temples, schools and community centres. Anywhere Jews visibly gather is a group is such a risk from bigots slaughtering us that we need protection. This makes us feel very scared. My kids are inevitably going to grow up being much more aware how they are seen as "different" than I am.

    So I don't think you are deliberately minimizing Anti-Semitism. I think you, like most of the population, just don't get it. Us Jews increasingly feel like we are being pushed out of the mainstream, forced to live an existence where we hide our ancestry or live in a parallel society, being faced by a constant threat that non-Jews never notice. Every vote for Jeremy Corbyn makes most of us feel more insecure. If he became PM we would be very scared for what is next. I know several friends who have seriously discussed emigration options if he gets in.

    Please don't feel judged for underestimating what we are going through. I know I am absent minded enough I probably would not notice if I wasn't Jewish. But just listen to us. Read up on what Jewish organizations are saying and take them seriously. Talk to your Jewish friends. Vote thinking of us.
    I get all this but my Jewish friends and acquaintances don't seem that fussed about Corbyn, in fact some of them seem to like him more than I do. I am part of a mixed race family so I certainly have some understanding of issues around racism. When I hear the language that Johnson has used about minorities, eg the Piccanninies comment (that he must have known was echoing Enoch Powell) and the pillarboxes comments (which led to an upsurge in attacks on Muslim women) he seems like a threat to my kids.
    Then it sounds like your friends are grossly unrepresentative.

    93% of Jews oppose Corbyn:
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/polls-despite-mixed-opinions-on-brexit-93-of-uk-jews-wont-vote-for-labour/

    40% of Jews are seriously considering emigrating if Corbyn wins:
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/if-corbyn-became-pm-almost-40-of-uk-jews-would-seriously-consider-leaving/

    I find the Picanninies comment to have been mocking the mindset of British officials visiting Africa rather than stating his own views. And he has apologised for it. The pillar box comments were crass but were describing the most misogynistic clothing. It was not vilifying Muslims as a whole. He also has two brown people in his top four. But if you feel differently, don't vote for Johnson either. Vote Lib Dem or Green or a local independent.

  • I really wasn’t expecting to see a picture of Rasputin’s pickled penis on here at half past seven on a Thursday night.

    We've had pickled penises on here at all times of the day (particularly when folk are daytime boozing by the wine dark sea).
  • Plus ca change ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYbRZmKsZsQ

    Tomorrow's World review of the 1970s.

    With big features on problems in transport investment and nuclear power construction and the neglect of investment in more mundane sectors.

    Plus the proto internet of Prestel.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    PaulM said:

    Byronic said:

    kle4 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Do we think the Brexit Part is going to do a massive press event tomorrow about how we are still in the EU? I can see the rumours about Farage pulling back being done to reduce expectations and making it bigger news.

    I think it more likely the rumours were someone other than Farage trying to desperately bounce BXP into pulling back, from a faction of BXP who are not as anti-Boris as Farage and fear Brexit being lost. Farage I doubt ever had an intention to do so.

    So any event or news push on failing to Brexit I think was always going to be the same, regardless of GE expectations.
    Farage has a bit of a quandary.

    The polls aren't great for BXP. The Tories have a squeeze on them. So if the BXP field 600 candidates, spread their resources thinly, and do about as well as Veritas and get no MPs, Farage will look a dick and a loser (which he hates). He will though, have the pleasure of being a biggish fish in the pond, before the depressing votes.

    Alternatively, he could focus on 20-30 Leaver seats, actually win a couple of MPs, and he won't look like an idiot and he can still claim to be a player going forward. BUT he won't be a star on stage interim.

    The first approach also risks letting in a Corbyn minority govt, losing Brexit entirely in a 2nd ref, and then Farage will go from cult figure to hate figure amongst his supporters: a dire outcome for Nigel.

    He has a lot of hard thinking to do. And what he decides could decide the fate of the nation.
    I don't think he has the chance of winning any seats unless he has all the assistance from the air war that standing in all 600+ would give him - Party Election Broadcast, time on the BBC, in the leader's debate for the minor parties, that sort of thing.

    If he talks about concentrating on a small number of seats and not standing against the Tories in hundreds of them then it's just about avoiding humiliation.
    How are the rules written. If for instance BXP stood in every seat in Wales would that get them into the debates/PPB etc ?
    There aren't rules for the debates, as such, because they're still a matter of debate for each election. It would seem like this would be something that could be added to OFCOM's remit. For the broadcasts then I think BXP would be entitled to Wales-only broadcasts in that scenario, but I'd guess they'd want English broadcasts to help in seats where UKIP did well in 2015.
  • Byronic said:

    I am sceptical of the latest batch of polling. Tories up 8% to 41 in Mori, Labour as low as 21% with YouGov.

    I just can't see how the Tories will get 40%+, given how unpopular Boris is and how divisive Brexit is, nor can I see how Labour will not get 30% with the tribal nature of the big two parties vote.

    Boris is approved by 38% of the population. So 41% Tory support in the VI polls is entirely believable, once you add in a million people who don't like him but hate and fear Corbz even more,
    Corbz really does get brought up unprompted as a bogey man by the voters. I saw it again several times this afternoon.
    Did you mention the 'garden tax' ?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    Bozo on BBC News: "I definitely squirted something there"

    Please supply your own punchlines.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Trump's criticism of the Bozza deal couldn't be more choreographed. Smart, though, as a few more outbursts against the deal from him and Labour can't use the Trump Brexit crap.

    It's very obvious that this lot are streets ahead of the previous bunch wrt campaigning.
  • I really wasn’t expecting to see a picture of Rasputin’s pickled penis on here at half past seven on a Thursday night.

    We've had pickled penises on here at all times of the day (particularly when folk are daytime boozing by the wine dark sea).
    Rosy fingered Dawn and the pickled penis ?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,613

    Byronic said:

    I am sceptical of the latest batch of polling. Tories up 8% to 41 in Mori, Labour as low as 21% with YouGov.

    I just can't see how the Tories will get 40%+, given how unpopular Boris is and how divisive Brexit is, nor can I see how Labour will not get 30% with the tribal nature of the big two parties vote.

    Boris is approved by 38% of the population. So 41% Tory support in the VI polls is entirely believable, once you add in a million people who don't like him but hate and fear Corbz even more,
    Corbz really does get brought up unprompted as a bogey man by the voters. I saw it again several times this afternoon.
    Did you mention the 'garden tax' ?
    Nope.

    Should I?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,775
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Omnium said:

    Stocky said:

    Omnium said: "The Economists have been lost-in-space for ages anyway. So far as I can tell every model is basically 'under review'. Actual economic modelling that people believed in went by the wayside in 2008."

    No it didn`t - this is what behavioural economists want you to believe.

    Economists knew a crash at some point was probable due to deregulation of financial markets - humans are greedy and self-interested - but it is unreasonable to expect economists to have forecasted the timing of the crash.

    Of course economists knew a crash was inevitable at some point. It's simply a fact. I don't think you meant that the inevitable crash was due to financial deregulation, there is always an inevitable crash.

    I've not met a behavioral economist, let alone been influenced by one.

    I think it's entirely reasonable to expect economists to predict all sorts of things given their apparent wisdom expressed every day on the news.

    Privately they will tell you that they don't have a clue currently. (Or that's so in my experience)

    If they are so smart where are their superyachts?
    Well quite. Economics, as it stands now, is more akin to a religion.

    It will become at least something of a science one day though, and the better observations and thoughts of the crowd (wise or like me) are important.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236
    Stocky said:

    Byronic said: "He (Farage) has a lot of hard thinking to do. And what he decides could decide the fate of the nation."

    Yes, and if he has any sense he`ll compete only a few constituencies where Tories have no chance.

    My concern is that he has gone so far with BXP project - involving a lot of people - that he will feel reluctant to back-track.

    There is a campaign going on to troll the Brexit party by sending a GDPR request should you receive a mailing from them...
    https://m.facebook.com/TheBresistance/posts/had-a-leaflet-off-the-brexit-party-make-a-gdpr-request-about-the-information-the/2310314172354730/
  • Christ. Spotlight: The Secret History of the Troubles (iPlayer) is incredible.

    A piece of documentary making with few peers.

    Thanks to Spudfish for the tip.

    Agreed. Really worth a watch of the whole series.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153

    I really wasn’t expecting to see a picture of Rasputin’s pickled penis on here at half past seven on a Thursday night.

    I expect it every night, and am usually disappointed.
  • Byronic said:

    I am sceptical of the latest batch of polling. Tories up 8% to 41 in Mori, Labour as low as 21% with YouGov.

    I just can't see how the Tories will get 40%+, given how unpopular Boris is and how divisive Brexit is, nor can I see how Labour will not get 30% with the tribal nature of the big two parties vote.

    Boris is approved by 38% of the population. So 41% Tory support in the VI polls is entirely believable, once you add in a million people who don't like him but hate and fear Corbz even more,
    Corbz really does get brought up unprompted as a bogey man by the voters. I saw it again several times this afternoon.
    Did you mention the 'garden tax' ?
    Nope.

    Should I?
    I can't imagine being taxed on their lawns and roses being a vote winner for Labour even if people wren't already put off by Corbs.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    Today's policy announcements by Jezza remind me why I voted for him in 2015.

    Just a pity he doesn't have the leadership qualities to match the radical ideas.

    It is a pity that we are going to do so badly, as the country could be so much better than it is going to be after 5 years of a Bozo majority government.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149

    So what happened to those Brexit riots and violence @HYUFD promised us today in London?

    They didn’t happen? Fancy that.

    As we are now getting a general election which Boris or Farage could win, voters, not MPs, finally get their say
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    kle4 said:

    I really wasn’t expecting to see a picture of Rasputin’s pickled penis on here at half past seven on a Thursday night.

    I expect it every night, and am usually disappointed.
    But not this day!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    edited October 2019
    Bit smutty this thread header by the way OGH....am sure it was unintentional
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,775

    Bozo on BBC News: "I definitely squirted something there"

    Please supply your own punchlines.

    Rentool embraces Boris' slightest squirt!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153

    kle4 said:

    I really wasn’t expecting to see a picture of Rasputin’s pickled penis on here at half past seven on a Thursday night.

    I expect it every night, and am usually disappointed.
    But not this day!
    Praise be.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    The only fair outcome of who gets to be in debates is obviously subjective but I would suggest, parties who stand in 90% of constituencies in one of the four nations and also has a record of a degree of electoral success in the last sequence of elections since 2017 should feature. That would be Con, Lab, Lib Dem and TBP in England and inclusive of PC SNP in Scotland and Wales a bit tough on the greens I know but....
  • Fireworks have started.

    I think there will come a time when the year will have one event immediately following the previous.

    We already have Halloween to Guy Fawkes to Remembrance to Black Friday to Christmas to New Year to Valentines to Mothers Day to Easter.
  • PaulMPaulM Posts: 613

    PaulM said:

    Byronic said:

    kle4 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Do we think the Brexit Part is going to do a massive press event tomorrow about how we are still in the EU? I can see the rumours about Farage pulling back being done to reduce expectations and making it bigger news.

    I think it more likely the rumours were someone other than Farage trying to desperately bounce BXP into pulling back, from a faction of BXP who are not as anti-Boris as Farage and fear Brexit being lost. Farage I doubt ever had an intention to do so.

    So any event or news push on failing to Brexit I think was always going to be the same, regardless of GE expectations.
    Farage has a bit of a quandary.

    The polls aren't great for BXP. The Tories have a squeeze on them. So if the BXP field 600 candidates, spread their resources thinly, and do about as well as Veritas and get no MPs, Farage will look a dick and a loser (which he hates). He will though, have the pleasure of being a biggish fish in the pond, before the depressing votes.

    Alternatively, he could focus on 20-30 Leaver seats, actually win a couple of MPs, and he won't look like an idiot and he can still claim to be a player going forward. BUT he won't be a star on stage interim.

    The first approach also risks letting in a Corbyn minority govt, losing Brexit entirely in a 2nd ref, and then Farage will go from cult figure to hate figure amongst his supporters: a dire outcome for Nigel.

    He has a lot of hard thinking to do. And what he decides could decide the fate of the nation.
    I don't think he has the chance of winning any seats unless he has all the assistance from the air war that standing in all 600+ would give him - Party Election Broadcast, time on the BBC, in the leader's debate for the minor parties, that sort of thing.

    If he talks about concentrating on a small number of seats and not standing against the Tories in hundreds of them then it's just about avoiding humiliation.
    How are the rules written. If for instance BXP stood in every seat in Wales would that get them into the debates/PPB etc ?
    There aren't rules for the debates, as such, because they're still a matter of debate for each election. It would seem like this would be something that could be added to OFCOM's remit. For the broadcasts then I think BXP would be entitled to Wales-only broadcasts in that scenario, but I'd guess they'd want English broadcasts to help in seats where UKIP did well in 2015.
    Thanks Wonder whether if they stood in every seat in the North East, they get a broadcast on Tyne-Tees and BBC NorthEast ?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited October 2019

    Plus ca change ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYbRZmKsZsQ

    Tomorrow's World review of the 1970s.

    With big features on problems in transport investment and nuclear power construction and the neglect of investment in more mundane sectors.

    Plus the proto internet of Prestel.

    One of my favourite videos on YouTube. Closely followed by the BBC's opening day guided tour of Birmingham Airport in 1984.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Fireworks have started.

    I think there will come a time when the year will have one event immediately following the previous.

    We already have Halloween to Guy Fawkes to Remembrance to Black Friday to Christmas to New Year to Valentines to Mothers Day to Easter.

    Just like a DFS sale
  • AndyJS said:

    Plus ca change ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYbRZmKsZsQ

    Tomorrow's World review of the 1970s.

    With big features on problems in transport investment and nuclear power construction and the neglect of investment in more mundane sectors.

    Plus the proto internet of Prestel.

    One of my favourite videos on YouTube.
    I quite often see your comments on YouTube.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited October 2019

    AndyJS said:

    Plus ca change ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYbRZmKsZsQ

    Tomorrow's World review of the 1970s.

    With big features on problems in transport investment and nuclear power construction and the neglect of investment in more mundane sectors.

    Plus the proto internet of Prestel.

    One of my favourite videos on YouTube.
    I quite often see your comments on YouTube.
    How awful. I didn't think I'd posted that many.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    With apologies if it's already been posted on here - a little ditty for Halloween:

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsJOE_UK/status/1189848235034185728?s=20
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    Fireworks have started.

    I think there will come a time when the year will have one event immediately following the previous.

    We already have Halloween to Guy Fawkes to Remembrance to Black Friday to Christmas to New Year to Valentines to Mothers Day to Easter.

    Hot cross buns available in Waitrose today, just saying.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153

    Fireworks have started.

    I think there will come a time when the year will have one event immediately following the previous.

    We already have Halloween to Guy Fawkes to Remembrance to Black Friday to Christmas to New Year to Valentines to Mothers Day to Easter.

    Hot cross buns available in Waitrose today, just saying.

    Hot cross buns being available year round are one of the glories of the modern age.
  • AndyJS said:

    AndyJS said:

    Plus ca change ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYbRZmKsZsQ

    Tomorrow's World review of the 1970s.

    With big features on problems in transport investment and nuclear power construction and the neglect of investment in more mundane sectors.

    Plus the proto internet of Prestel.

    One of my favourite videos on YouTube.
    I quite often see your comments on YouTube.
    How awful. I didn't think I'd posted that many.
    Maybe not but naturally your name stands out to me.
  • Today's policy announcements by Jezza remind me why I voted for him in 2015.

    Just a pity he doesn't have the leadership qualities to match the radical ideas.

    It is a pity that we are going to do so badly, as the country could be so much better than it is going to be after 5 years of a Bozo majority government.

    Out of genuine interest what sort of things would you do if you were in power ?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,721

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:


    According to the article cited we have already lost 2.5% of growth over the last 42 months, losing a further 3.5% over the next 120 months seems quite a cautious prediction. No doubt we will see.

    I don't expect a Brexit induced economic slump, just a slow grinding corrosive economic stagnation.

    I'm curious as to where this 2.5% of extra growth would be.

    Certainly not in manufacturing or anything else export oriented as the exchange rate would be less competitive.

    I can't see construction being in any more than a boom than it has been and government services would be no different to what they have been.

    So that leaves an even bigger consumption bubble - more spending on more imports.

    And that together with the absence of the hundreds of billions of extra exports we've had in that period would have led to a monumental balance of payments crisis.

    Of course pretty much all large western economies have struggled for growth in the last 18 months so I don't see why the UK would have done better than any of them as is apparently claimed.
    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/002795011925000103

    Is the relevant article. Fig 2 is the graph in question, so read the surrounding text.
    It seems to be rather vague on data and big on casual extrapolations plus I didn't see any mention of how exports have been boosted by the change in sterling value.

    I really doubt the increased business investment the report bigs up would have happened - a look at bond yields shows that there is a general malaise in that area.

    I suspect the brutal truth is that the western world is in for a long period of low growth.
    I agree on stagnation across the West, but it will be worse here because of Brexit. Our main export markets will also be stagnant.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Fireworks have started.

    I think there will come a time when the year will have one event immediately following the previous.

    We already have Halloween to Guy Fawkes to Remembrance to Black Friday to Christmas to New Year to Valentines to Mothers Day to Easter.

    Diwali then the rest, though it is Diwali, November the fifth and New Year which have fireworks.

    The Americans already do have more-or-less what you describe, which I gather is the reason they say "happy holidays" and not PC, or not just PC. Our bank holidays are concentrated in the spring, America's are now-ish.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    PaulM said:

    PaulM said:

    I don't think he has the chance of winning any seats unless he has all the assistance from the air war that standing in all 600+ would give him - Party Election Broadcast, time on the BBC, in the leader's debate for the minor parties, that sort of thing.

    If he talks about concentrating on a small number of seats and not standing against the Tories in hundreds of them then it's just about avoiding humiliation.

    How are the rules written. If for instance BXP stood in every seat in Wales would that get them into the debates/PPB etc ?
    There aren't rules for the debates, as such, because they're still a matter of debate for each election. It would seem like this would be something that could be added to OFCOM's remit. For the broadcasts then I think BXP would be entitled to Wales-only broadcasts in that scenario, but I'd guess they'd want English broadcasts to help in seats where UKIP did well in 2015.
    Thanks Wonder whether if they stood in every seat in the North East, they get a broadcast on Tyne-Tees and BBC NorthEast ?
    Interesting idea. I think the Yorkshire First Party may have put up a candidate in every Yorkshire seat in either 2015 or 2017, so one could try and find out how they were treated. @MorrisDancer might remember.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    HYUFD said:

    So what happened to those Brexit riots and violence @HYUFD promised us today in London?

    They didn’t happen? Fancy that.

    As we are now getting a general election which Boris or Farage could win, voters, not MPs, finally get their say
    Yeah yeah there’s always an excuse.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    Gabs2 said:



    I find the Picanninies comment to have been mocking the mindset of British officials visiting Africa rather than stating his own views. And he has apologised for it. The pillar box comments were crass but were describing the most misogynistic clothing. It was not vilifying Muslims as a whole.

    I'm Jewish, though non-practising, and a former national executive member of Labour Friends of Israel. I think you are applying different criteria to the party leader you prefer. Corbyn absolutely hasn't vilified Jews (as a whole or in part) and your interpretation of the picaninnies comment is, well, generous to a fault.

    But, more to the point, I think you shouldn't portray yourself as speaking for all of us who happen to be of Jewish descent - we have a right to decide differently about these things, and it plays into the hands of real anti-semites if any of us pretend that we all think the same way, just as self-appointed "community leaders" do their communities a disservice if they imply that they speak for the political opinions of thousands of people who happen to be of the same ethnic background. They don't, and nor do we.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Stocky said:

    Omnium said: "The Economists have been lost-in-space for ages anyway. So far as I can tell every model is basically 'under review'. Actual economic modelling that people believed in went by the wayside in 2008."

    No it didn`t - this is what behavioural economists want you to believe.

    Economists knew a crash at some point was probable due to deregulation of financial markets - humans are greedy and self-interested - but it is unreasonable to expect economists to have forecasted the timing of the crash.

    Plenty of economists in 2006 were predicting a massive housing crash in America.
This discussion has been closed.