All the northern Irish unionist parties are opposed to the latest deal. Can’t see that causing any problems.
Today is the first definitive proof of what we've all known was coming. That the Conservative Party is now a post-unionist party. And with that news that the UK now has no UK wide governing party of a capital U unionist nature. The psychological shock will take a while to work through.
It is now a populist English nationalist party. The consequences will be that those parts of the union outside England will all in due course make their excuses and leave.
Not Wales. Wales is the definition of Stockholm syndrome. In my experience Welsh people have a superficial hatred of the English but a deeper hatred of themselves.
Wales has the fastest growing movement to break away from the UK. They could surprise you.
Nigel Farage is a pathetic weasally parody of a Brexiteer. We have a good deal here with a transition and a Political Declaration and agreement that we are seeking a Free Trade Agreement. It is a proper exit from the EU and exactly what Brexiteers including him campaigned for during the referendum . . .
And he's now calling not for an exit of the EU with this but an extension and an election where Brexit could be overturned? Don't be ridiculous! The backstop had fundamental problems, they've been dealt with, now only people who don't want Brexit will oppose this.
Farage seems to be saying the whole thing should be torpedoed just because of what's in the poltical declaration (which is non-binding and subject to change and negotaitation in the FTA)
Final proof that Farage is a chancer and just wants to stay on the EU gravy train and posture.
A bad deal is better than no deal. I thought it with May's one. I think now with something that is objectively worse. The key thing now is the final FTA. Let's hope we get one that is desiged for British citizens and British businesses, not for US corporations.
A pity the three years have been wasted on discussing a fallback plan.
It would of course be quite delicious if it were Varadkar and Ireland that were to say to the DUP "fuck you and fuck the horse you rode in on - no more extensions."
And the even more ridiculous thing about Farage's position is that there is no commitment to a Level Playing Field in the WA. It just says one will be needed for a future FTA. So he could easily support us getting out the EU, getting control over money, immigration, laws, regulations, farms, fisheries and trade laws, but oppose the next bit.
Farage is a complete hack. He clearly does not give a damn about Brexit, outside of how it can help him get power.
A bad deal is better than no deal. I thought it with May's one. I think now with something that is objectively worse. The key thing now is the final FTA. Let's hope we get one that is desiged for British citizens and British businesses, not for US corporations.
A pity the three years have been wasted on discussing a fallback plan.
Blame Gove for that. It should have Boris doing this from day one, not May.
If we take MV3 as the starting point then I think the deal just passes with all the ERG on-board even without the DUP.
AGAINST DEAL - Possible that some of the 21 who voted for MV3 will vote against Johnson. I think most of these prefer a deal to any other option, so will still vote for. Can Amber Rudd manage another volte-face to go through the same lobby as Johnson on this deal? Probably. It would be surprising if there weren't a few ERG holdouts, though. The Brecon & Radnorshire by-election moves one vote against the deal too.
FOR DEAL - Now that the level playing field provisions are back in, albeit in the political declaration, the way is open for more Labour Leaver support. Not that much more, though. Would be surprised to see more than a handful extra MPs. It does look like much of the ERG will swing behind the deal.
WILDCARD - What does Theresa May think about the border in the Irish Sea [North Channel]? She said no British PM could support one, but now that she is merely a backbench MP might she do so? I doubt she will speak in Saturday's debate, but if she did it could be an explosive intervention if she were to speak against the deal.
I think this goes down to the wire and it will be a single figure majority either way.
Nigel Farage is a pathetic weasally parody of a Brexiteer. We have a good deal here with a transition and a Political Declaration and agreement that we are seeking a Free Trade Agreement. It is a proper exit from the EU and exactly what Brexiteers including him campaigned for during the referendum . . .
And he's now calling not for an exit of the EU with this but an extension and an election where Brexit could be overturned? Don't be ridiculous! The backstop had fundamental problems, they've been dealt with, now only people who don't want Brexit will oppose this.
Farage seems to be saying the whole thing should be torpedoed just because of what's in the poltical declaration (which is non-binding and subject to change and negotaitation in the FTA)
Final proof that Farage is a chancer and just want to stay on the EU gravy train and posture.
Well said. The sooner Farage's gravy train comes to a halt the better.
All the northern Irish unionist parties are opposed to the latest deal. Can’t see that causing any problems.
Today is the first definitive proof of what we've all known was coming. That the Conservative Party is now a post-unionist party. And with that news that the UK now has no UK wide governing party of a capital U unionist nature. The psychological shock will take a while to work through.
It is now a populist English nationalist party. The consequences will be that those parts of the union outside England will all in due course make their excuses and leave.
Not Wales. Wales is the definition of Stockholm syndrome. In my experience Welsh people have a superficial hatred of the English but a deeper hatred of themselves.
Wales has the fastest growing movement to break away from the UK. They could surprise you.
An increase of 500% of not a lot is still not a lot.
And if any complacency sets in, they will surprise.
All the northern Irish unionist parties are opposed to the latest deal. Can’t see that causing any problems.
Today is the first definitive proof of what we've all known was coming. That the Conservative Party is now a post-unionist party. And with that news that the UK now has no UK wide governing party of a capital U unionist nature. The psychological shock will take a while to work through.
It is now a populist English nationalist party. The consequences will be that those parts of the union outside England will all in due course make their excuses and leave.
Not Wales. Wales is the definition of Stockholm syndrome. In my experience Welsh people have a superficial hatred of the English but a deeper hatred of themselves.
Wales has the fastest growing movement to break away from the UK. They could surprise you.
You're right that it would surprise me. But I know Wales. Nationalism doesn't get a look in. Jingoism and petty racism is fine, but never Welsh nationalism.
It would of course be quite delicious if it were Varadkar and Ireland that were to say to the DUP "fuck you and fuck the horse you rode in on - no more extensions."
The DUPs protestations about the GFA dont hold up, the Irish wouldn't torpedo it any more than we would. It's all about mot having a veto. They shouldn't, it's a disgraceful idea
Boris engaging constructively with the EU and obtaining a deal, committed to Brexit. All opposition seeking to frustrate Brexit. Opposition walking into a GE elephant trap of gargantuan proportions
This is basically what should be gnawing on the minds of pretty much everyone in the HoC who might vote against.
The removal of the UK-wide backstop from the withdrawal agreement massively weakens the UK's bargaining position during the transition. We no longer have the safety of the backstop to fall back on, while Ireland is relatively insulated from No Deal with the provisions for Northern Ireland.
While we are still a member we had the ultimate backstop of being able to revoke Article 50 if the EU would not offer a good deal, and the EU didn't want to be seen to force a member out by not offering an extension.
Once we're in the transition we're a third country and I think the EU will turn the screws. I think we will be fucked over really badly if we exit on Johnson's terms compared to if we'd left with May's deal.
I thought that the UK wide backstop was a bit of a masterstroke that would be helpful even if we didn't want to use it. But these are details. What we need is a deal that can pass the Commons. If this is it, hurrah! The fact that better deals should have passed is irrelevant.
This deal isn't going to pass - the numbers aren't there.
It can however pass if Boris accepts a referendum and I suspect he might.
I think its too early to say the numbers aren't there. We have the 21, many but not all of whom wanted a deal, we have Stephen Kinnock's Labour faction that wants a deal, we have the DUP probably opposing, we have more odds and sods in this dysfunctional Parliament than we have had in my lifetime. I really don't know how to call it.
Its really not too early. An additional 30-40 votes are needed depending how many recant from last time. Not many more than that are even amenable so you need nearly all of them.
First: to be completed in terms of the Benn Act the agreement must be completed in terms of Article 50 of the Lisbon treaty which means the EU Parliament must okay it - and they aren't sitting until 21 October.
"(1) It shall be unlawful for Her Majesty’s Government to enter into arrangements under which Northern Ireland forms part of a separate customs territory to Great Britain."
"(2) For the purposes of this section “customs territory” shall have the same meaning as in the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade 1947 as amended."
So that would have to be repealed by Parliament, which is possible but unlikely. In any case, the first impediment remains.
It's Extension, hold a 3rd ref or a GE before 31 Oct, Revoke or civil war (in decreasing order of probability).
Nigel Farage is a pathetic weasally parody of a Brexiteer. We have a good deal here with a transition and a Political Declaration and agreement that we are seeking a Free Trade Agreement. It is a proper exit from the EU and exactly what Brexiteers including him campaigned for during the referendum . . .
And he's now calling not for an exit of the EU with this but an extension and an election where Brexit could be overturned? Don't be ridiculous! The backstop had fundamental problems, they've been dealt with, now only people who don't want Brexit will oppose this.
Farage seems to be saying the whole thing should be torpedoed just because of what's in the poltical declaration (which is non-binding and subject to change and negotaitation in the FTA)
Final proof that Farage is a chancer and just want to stay on the EU gravy train and posture.
If it hadn’t been for Farage there’d have been no referendum, and the sleepy, flabby centrism of Cameron, Miliband or Clegg would have been our non choices for decades.
But I have to say I am disappointed he can’t bring himself to say well done, and move on here. Winning the referendum was not worth it if we don’t ever leave. If he wants to influence the way the country is run afterwards he can stand for election again.
Nigel Farage is a pathetic weasally parody of a Brexiteer. We have a good deal here with a transition and a Political Declaration and agreement that we are seeking a Free Trade Agreement. It is a proper exit from the EU and exactly what Brexiteers including him campaigned for during the referendum . . .
And he's now calling not for an exit of the EU with this but an extension and an election where Brexit could be overturned? Don't be ridiculous! The backstop had fundamental problems, they've been dealt with, now only people who don't want Brexit will oppose this.
Farage seems to be saying the whole thing should be torpedoed just because of what's in the poltical declaration (which is non-binding and subject to change and negotaitation in the FTA)
Final proof that Farage is a chancer and just wants to stay on the EU gravy train and posture.
In a way it's rather touching that there are still people around who are surprised when politicians favour their own interests rather than their declared "principles".
Hes going to need about 21 labour votes, fewer of more of the Ex Tories climb aboard
My guesstimates came up with similar numbers, maybe a touch higher on ex-Tories, but in the 300-305 bucket overall atm ………. plus any that come from Mr Kinnock's chunk, although hunch is that's zero.
I think it depends on if no or only short extension intimated..... He ought to get a min 5 labour/mps for a deal. Letwin on board is a big win
Ofher than Hoey, I don’t think any leaver Labour MPs will vote for this deal if Corbyn makes good on his plan to 3-line whip it. A few might come down with a convenient bout of the flu but that’s it.
The vote will be close, but I don’t think Boris has the numbers unless he can make the DUP change their minds. Which if he does he’ll follow up with parting the Red Sea and feeding the five thousand.
Nigel Farage is a pathetic weasally parody of a Brexiteer. We have a good deal here with a transition and a Political Declaration and agreement that we are seeking a Free Trade Agreement. It is a proper exit from the EU and exactly what Brexiteers including him campaigned for during the referendum . . .
And he's now calling not for an exit of the EU with this but an extension and an election where Brexit could be overturned? Don't be ridiculous! The backstop had fundamental problems, they've been dealt with, now only people who don't want Brexit will oppose this.
Farage seems to be saying the whole thing should be torpedoed just because of what's in the poltical declaration (which is non-binding and subject to change and negotaitation in the FTA)
Final proof that Farage is a chancer and just want to stay on the EU gravy train and posture.
Well said. The sooner Farage's gravy train comes to a halt the better.
Will be interesting to see of there's a split in the Brexit Party. Wouldn't be susprised if some of the more sensible BXP members defy Farage and come out for the deal.
The DUPs protestations about the GFA dont hold up, the Irish wouldn't torpedo it any more than we would. It's all about mot having a veto. They shouldn't, it's a disgraceful idea
And if they can get a majority at Stormont they effectively will have a veto. Sinn Fein would have to collapse the assembly to stop it.
Hes going to need about 21 labour votes, fewer of more of the Ex Tories climb aboard
My guesstimates came up with similar numbers, maybe a touch higher on ex-Tories, but in the 300-305 bucket overall atm ………. plus any that come from Mr Kinnock's chunk, although hunch is that's zero.
I think it depends on if no or only short extension intimated..... He ought to get a min 5 labour/mps for a deal. Letwin on board is a big win
Ofher than Hoey, I don’t think any leaver Labour MPs will vote for this deal if Corbyn makes good on his plan to 3-line whip it. A few might come down with a convenient bout of the flu but that’s it.
The vote will be close, but I don’t think Boris has the numbers unless he can make the DUP change their minds. Which if he does he’ll follow up with parting the Red Sea and feeding the five thousand.
Am I right in saying that when it's a 3-line whip, it doesn't matter whether you oppose the party or abstain, a tonne of bricks is coming down on you anyway?
Hes going to need about 21 labour votes, fewer of more of the Ex Tories climb aboard
My guesstimates came up with similar numbers, maybe a touch higher on ex-Tories, but in the 300-305 bucket overall atm ………. plus any that come from Mr Kinnock's chunk, although hunch is that's zero.
I think it depends on if no or only short extension intimated..... He ought to get a min 5 labour/mps for a deal. Letwin on board is a big win
Ofher than Hoey, I don’t think any leaver Labour MPs will vote for this deal if Corbyn makes good on his plan to 3-line whip it. A few might come down with a convenient bout of the flu but that’s it.
The vote will be close, but I don’t think Boris has the numbers unless he can make the DUP change their minds. Which if he does he’ll follow up with parting the Red Sea and feeding the five thousand.
If the DUP don't support it then Hoey certainly won't vote for it.
All the northern Irish unionist parties are opposed to the latest deal. Can’t see that causing any problems.
Today is the first definitive proof of what we've all known was coming. That the Conservative Party is now a post-unionist party. And with that news that the UK now has no UK wide governing party of a capital U unionist nature. The psychological shock will take a while to work through.
It is now a populist English nationalist party. The consequences will be that those parts of the union outside England will all in due course make their excuses and leave.
Not Wales. Wales is the definition of Stockholm syndrome. In my experience Welsh people have a superficial hatred of the English but a deeper hatred of themselves.
Wales has the fastest growing movement to break away from the UK. They could surprise you.
You're right that it would surprise me. But I know Wales. Nationalism doesn't get a look in. Jingoism and petty racism is fine, but never Welsh nationalism.
Wales has its own local pride and identity. But it is fundamentally politically similar to the Midlands and North of England. Northern Ireland and Scotland have very different politics.
Nigel Farage is a pathetic weasally parody of a Brexiteer. We have a good deal here with a transition and a Political Declaration and agreement that we are seeking a Free Trade Agreement. It is a proper exit from the EU and exactly what Brexiteers including him campaigned for during the referendum . . .
And he's now calling not for an exit of the EU with this but an extension and an election where Brexit could be overturned? Don't be ridiculous! The backstop had fundamental problems, they've been dealt with, now only people who don't want Brexit will oppose this.
Farage seems to be saying the whole thing should be torpedoed just because of what's in the poltical declaration (which is non-binding and subject to change and negotaitation in the FTA)
Final proof that Farage is a chancer and just want to stay on the EU gravy train and posture.
If it hadn’t been for Farage there’d have been no referendum, and the sleepy, flabby centrism of Cameron, Miliband or Clegg would have been our non choices for decades.
But I have to say I am disappointed he can’t bring himself to say well done, and move on here. Winning the referendum was not worth it if we don’t ever leave. If he wants to influence the way the country is run afterwards he can stand for election again.
His previous attempts at standing for election may have convinced him this is his last chance at influencing the way the country is run.
Hes going to need about 21 labour votes, fewer of more of the Ex Tories climb aboard
My guesstimates came up with similar numbers, maybe a touch higher on ex-Tories, but in the 300-305 bucket overall atm ………. plus any that come from Mr Kinnock's chunk, although hunch is that's zero.
I think it depends on if no or only short extension intimated..... He ought to get a min 5 labour/mps for a deal. Letwin on board is a big win
Ofher than Hoey, I don’t think any leaver Labour MPs will vote for this deal if Corbyn makes good on his plan to 3-line whip it. A few might come down with a convenient bout of the flu but that’s it.
The vote will be close, but I don’t think Boris has the numbers unless he can make the DUP change their minds. Which if he does he’ll follow up with parting the Red Sea and feeding the five thousand.
First: to be completed in terms of the Benn Act the agreement must be completed in terms of Article 50 of the Lisbon treaty which means the EU Parliament must okay it - and they aren't sitting until 21 October.
"(1) It shall be unlawful for Her Majesty’s Government to enter into arrangements under which Northern Ireland forms part of a separate customs territory to Great Britain."
"(2) For the purposes of this section “customs territory” shall have the same meaning as in the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade 1947 as amended."
So that would have to be repealed by Parliament, which is possible but unlikely. In any case, the first impediment remains.
It's Extension, hold a 3rd ref or a GE before 31 Oct, Revoke or civil war (in decreasing order of probability).
I thought the proposal was for NI not technically to remain in the customs union.
Hes going to need about 21 labour votes, fewer of more of the Ex Tories climb aboard
My guesstimates came up with similar numbers, maybe a touch higher on ex-Tories, but in the 300-305 bucket overall atm ………. plus any that come from Mr Kinnock's chunk, although hunch is that's zero.
I think it depends on if no or only short extension intimated..... He ought to get a min 5 labour/mps for a deal. Letwin on board is a big win
Ofher than Hoey, I don’t think any leaver Labour MPs will vote for this deal if Corbyn makes good on his plan to 3-line whip it. A few might come down with a convenient bout of the flu but that’s it.
The vote will be close, but I don’t think Boris has the numbers unless he can make the DUP change their minds. Which if he does he’ll follow up with parting the Red Sea and feeding the five thousand.
Am I right in saying that when it's a 3-line whip, it doesn't matter whether you oppose the party or abstain, a tonne of bricks is coming down on you anyway?
I think so, which is why I think they’d only abstain by not attending claiming illness, or being stuck in the loo of their train down from London or something.
Hilarity if the XR protestors manage to stop any MPs from attending!
Nigel Farage is a pathetic weasally parody of a Brexiteer. We have a good deal here with a transition and a Political Declaration and agreement that we are seeking a Free Trade Agreement. It is a proper exit from the EU and exactly what Brexiteers including him campaigned for during the referendum . . .
And he's now calling not for an exit of the EU with this but an extension and an election where Brexit could be overturned? Don't be ridiculous! The backstop had fundamental problems, they've been dealt with, now only people who don't want Brexit will oppose this.
Farage seems to be saying the whole thing should be torpedoed just because of what's in the poltical declaration (which is non-binding and subject to change and negotaitation in the FTA)
Final proof that Farage is a chancer and just want to stay on the EU gravy train and posture.
Well said. The sooner Farage's gravy train comes to a halt the better.
Really don't think Boris needs to worry about Farage. Tory-minded Leave voters will stick with Boris who was the face of the Leave campaign. Brexit Party more likely to hurt Labour in the marginals insofar as they have any effect at all.
Looks like the EU are on board by not allowing more time
Unfortunately, it's probably quite a step from stating you don't want any more extensions, to actively refusing one with all the resulting consequences.
Personally, I've been wanting that situation for a while though - forces Parliament to stop playing silly games and actually make a choice.
All the northern Irish unionist parties are opposed to the latest deal. Can’t see that causing any problems.
Today is the first definitive proof of what we've all known was coming. That the Conservative Party is now a post-unionist party. And with that news that the UK now has no UK wide governing party of a capital U unionist nature. The psychological shock will take a while to work through.
It is now a populist English nationalist party. The consequences will be that those parts of the union outside England will all in due course make their excuses and leave.
Not Wales. Wales is the definition of Stockholm syndrome. In my experience Welsh people have a superficial hatred of the English but a deeper hatred of themselves.
Wales has the fastest growing movement to break away from the UK. They could surprise you.
You're right that it would surprise me. But I know Wales. Nationalism doesn't get a look in. Jingoism and petty racism is fine, but never Welsh nationalism.
Wales has its own local pride and identity. But it is fundamentally politically similar to the Midlands and North of England. Northern Ireland and Scotland have very different politics.
Yes, that's pretty much the line of my thinking. Scotland feels to me like another country, Wales feels like a sad region of England with its own rugby side.
The DUPs protestations about the GFA dont hold up, the Irish wouldn't torpedo it any more than we would. It's all about mot having a veto. They shouldn't, it's a disgraceful idea
And if they can get a majority at Stormont they effectively will have a veto. Sinn Fein would have to collapse the assembly to stop it.
But the Stormont voting system is proportional and designed to include a wide range of parties. A unionist majority is possible, but unlikely. A DUP majority isn’t.
I really don't think Farage is going to make much hey with his opposition among Leavers. He can't fight it on immigration, money, farming, fishing, trade deals, regulation or laws.
He only has two arguments: Northern Ireland and level playing field. Most don't care about Northern Ireland and anyway they get to participate in most aspects, even trade deals. And the level playing field is not even committed to - it is just needed for a FTA. Just like it was for Japan and Canada. Plus Leavers across the North, Wales and Midlands presumably quite like their holiday allowances.
A bad deal is better than no deal. I thought it with May's one. I think now with something that is objectively worse. The key thing now is the final FTA. Let's hope we get one that is desiged for British citizens and British businesses, not for US corporations.
A pity the three years have been wasted on discussing a fallback plan.
Blame Gove for that. It should have Boris doing this from day one, not May.
Under Bozo it would probably have blown up earlier.
Don’t underestimate how important the experience of the past three years has been in shaping attitudes now. In particular the ERG nuts have had the salutary experience of nearly being responsible for sinking their own project.
The DUPs protestations about the GFA dont hold up, the Irish wouldn't torpedo it any more than we would. It's all about mot having a veto. They shouldn't, it's a disgraceful idea
And if they can get a majority at Stormont they effectively will have a veto. Sinn Fein would have to collapse the assembly to stop it.
But the Stormont voting system is proportional and designed to include a wide range of parties. A unionist majority is possible, but unlike. A DUP majority isn’t.
But the UUP have the same position as them, so could join them in forcing an exit.
All the northern Irish unionist parties are opposed to the latest deal. Can’t see that causing any problems.
Today is the first definitive proof of what we've all known was coming. That the Conservative Party is now a post-unionist party. And with that news that the UK now has no UK wide governing party of a capital U unionist nature. The psychological shock will take a while to work through.
It is now a populist English nationalist party. The consequences will be that those parts of the union outside England will all in due course make their excuses and leave.
Not Wales. Wales is the definition of Stockholm syndrome. In my experience Welsh people have a superficial hatred of the English but a deeper hatred of themselves.
Wales has the fastest growing movement to break away from the UK. They could surprise you.
You're right that it would surprise me. But I know Wales. Nationalism doesn't get a look in. Jingoism and petty racism is fine, but never Welsh nationalism.
Wales has its own local pride and identity. But it is fundamentally politically similar to the Midlands and North of England. Northern Ireland and Scotland have very different politics.
Most of the problem for Welshness (language, identity and nationalism) is that it is as split between north and south as the English are. People in Wrexham are proud enough of their area (and may overlay that on to "being Welsh"), but would look to Liverpool, Manchester and Chester before Cardiff as a regional centre. And my impression is that Cardiff attitudes can be a bit "there be dragons" once you're beyond the southern third.
Looks like the EU are on board by not allowing more time
If true that certainly adds a different slant to Saturday's events.
Will Jolyon Maugham take Junker to the European Court ?!
There is some uncertainty around here about whether he lodged his latest petition seeking to stop Parliament debating the deal. It seemed seriously ill conceived.
First: to be completed in terms of the Benn Act the agreement must be completed in terms of Article 50 of the Lisbon treaty which means the EU Parliament must okay it - and they aren't sitting until 21 October.
"(1) It shall be unlawful for Her Majesty’s Government to enter into arrangements under which Northern Ireland forms part of a separate customs territory to Great Britain."
"(2) For the purposes of this section “customs territory” shall have the same meaning as in the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade 1947 as amended."
So that would have to be repealed by Parliament, which is possible but unlikely. In any case, the first impediment remains.
It's Extension, hold a 3rd ref or a GE before 31 Oct, Revoke or civil war (in decreasing order of probability).
I thought the proposal was for NI not technically to remain in the customs union.
Nigel Farage is a pathetic weasally parody of a Brexiteer. We have a good deal here with a transition and a Political Declaration and agreement that we are seeking a Free Trade Agreement. It is a proper exit from the EU and exactly what Brexiteers including him campaigned for during the referendum . . .
And he's now calling not for an exit of the EU with this but an extension and an election where Brexit could be overturned? Don't be ridiculous! The backstop had fundamental problems, they've been dealt with, now only people who don't want Brexit will oppose this.
Farage seems to be saying the whole thing should be torpedoed just because of what's in the poltical declaration (which is non-binding and subject to change and negotaitation in the FTA)
Final proof that Farage is a chancer and just want to stay on the EU gravy train and posture.
Well said. The sooner Farage's gravy train comes to a halt the better.
Really don't think Boris needs to worry about Farage. Tory-minded Leave voters will stick with Boris who was the face of the Leave campaign. Brexit Party more likely to hurt Labour in the marginals insofar as they have any effect at all.
Looks like the EU are on board by not allowing more time
If true that certainly adds a different slant to Saturday's events.
Will Jolyon Maugham take Junker to the European Court ?!
There is some uncertainty around here about whether he lodged his latest petition seeking to stop Parliament debating the deal. It seemed seriously ill conceived.
First: to be completed in terms of the Benn Act the agreement must be completed in terms of Article 50 of the Lisbon treaty which means the EU Parliament must okay it - and they aren't sitting until 21 October.
"(1) It shall be unlawful for Her Majesty’s Government to enter into arrangements under which Northern Ireland forms part of a separate customs territory to Great Britain."
"(2) For the purposes of this section “customs territory” shall have the same meaning as in the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade 1947 as amended."
So that would have to be repealed by Parliament, which is possible but unlikely. In any case, the first impediment remains.
It's Extension, hold a 3rd ref or a GE before 31 Oct, Revoke or civil war (in decreasing order of probability).
I thought the proposal was for NI not technically to remain in the customs union.
The British government would have to impose EU customs rules on goods entering NI that might end up in RoI.
All the northern Irish unionist parties are opposed to the latest deal. Can’t see that causing any problems.
Today is the first definitive proof of what we've all known was coming. That the Conservative Party is now a post-unionist party. And with that news that the UK now has no UK wide governing party of a capital U unionist nature. The psychological shock will take a while to work through.
It is now a populist English nationalist party. The consequences will be that those parts of the union outside England will all in due course make their excuses and leave.
Not Wales. Wales is the definition of Stockholm syndrome. In my experience Welsh people have a superficial hatred of the English but a deeper hatred of themselves.
Wales has the fastest growing movement to break away from the UK. They could surprise you.
You're right that it would surprise me. But I know Wales. Nationalism doesn't get a look in. Jingoism and petty racism is fine, but never Welsh nationalism.
Wales has its own local pride and identity. But it is fundamentally politically similar to the Midlands and North of England. Northern Ireland and Scotland have very different politics.
Most of the problem for Welshness (language, identity and nationalism) is that it is as split between north and south as the English are. People in Wrexham are proud enough of their area (and may overlay that on to "being Welsh"), but would look to Liverpool, Manchester and Chester before Cardiff as a regional centre. And my impression is that Cardiff attitudes can be a bit "there be dragons" once you're beyond the southern third.
when I lived down there (as an outsider) it wasn't that the north was denigrated it was just that it was ignored. (just like in england then)
Nigel Farage is a pathetic weasally parody of a Brexiteer. We have a good deal here with a transition and a Political Declaration and agreement that we are seeking a Free Trade Agreement. It is a proper exit from the EU and exactly what Brexiteers including him campaigned for during the referendum . . .
And he's now calling not for an exit of the EU with this but an extension and an election where Brexit could be overturned? Don't be ridiculous! The backstop had fundamental problems, they've been dealt with, now only people who don't want Brexit will oppose this.
Farage seems to be saying the whole thing should be torpedoed just because of what's in the poltical declaration (which is non-binding and subject to change and negotaitation in the FTA)
Final proof that Farage is a chancer and just want to stay on the EU gravy train and posture.
If it hadn’t been for Farage there’d have been no referendum, and the sleepy, flabby centrism of Cameron, Miliband or Clegg would have been our non choices for decades.
But I have to say I am disappointed he can’t bring himself to say well done, and move on here. Winning the referendum was not worth it if we don’t ever leave. If he wants to influence the way the country is run afterwards he can stand for election again.
His previous attempts at standing for election may have convinced him this is his last chance at influencing the way the country is run.
I would have thought he'd stand a better chance of being elected by accepting the deal and standing as the candidate who ensures there's no backtracking. Standing for No Deal when a deal has been agreed will be unpopular in my opinion.
Assuming the ERG are on board, the dynamic also changes. Remainers will be deprived of their argument "it was hardcore Leaver purists that sank Brexit". All the media attention and narrative will be on Labour being the ones that thwarted it. Just as they did with No Deal and May's Deal.
Combined with Farage's best arguments being taken away from him, Johnson will win big on an election focused on Brexit. He has gone from being the extremist to being the adult in the room.
Looks like the EU are on board by not allowing more time
If true that certainly adds a different slant to Saturday's events.
Will Jolyon Maugham take Junker to the European Court ?!
There is some uncertainty around here about whether he lodged his latest petition seeking to stop Parliament debating the deal. It seemed seriously ill conceived.
Not sure about the battles of the last three years being re-fought every Olympics by one part of the UK. Thankfully it's a part where the main protagonists are noted for their collegiate approach and rejection of sectarianism.
Looks like the EU are on board by not allowing more time
If true that certainly adds a different slant to Saturday's events.
Will Jolyon Maugham take Junker to the European Court ?!
There is some uncertainty around here about whether he lodged his latest petition seeking to stop Parliament debating the deal. It seemed seriously ill conceived.
Nigel Farage is a pathetic weasally parody of a Brexiteer. We have a good deal here with a transition and a Political Declaration and agreement that we are seeking a Free Trade Agreement. It is a proper exit from the EU and exactly what Brexiteers including him campaigned for during the referendum . . .
And he's now calling not for an exit of the EU with this but an extension and an election where Brexit could be overturned? Don't be ridiculous! The backstop had fundamental problems, they've been dealt with, now only people who don't want Brexit will oppose this.
Farage seems to be saying the whole thing should be torpedoed just because of what's in the poltical declaration (which is non-binding and subject to change and negotaitation in the FTA)
Final proof that Farage is a chancer and just want to stay on the EU gravy train and posture.
If it hadn’t been for Farage there’d have been no referendum, and the sleepy, flabby centrism of Cameron, Miliband or Clegg would have been our non choices for decades.
But I have to say I am disappointed he can’t bring himself to say well done, and move on here. Winning the referendum was not worth it if we don’t ever leave. If he wants to influence the way the country is run afterwards he can stand for election again.
His previous attempts at standing for election may have convinced him this is his last chance at influencing the way the country is run.
I would have thought he'd stand a better chance of being elected by accepting the deal and standing as the candidate who ensures there's no backtracking. Standing for No Deal when a deal has been agreed will be unpopular in my opinion.
How many people think free movement will end on November 1st?
Looks like the EU are on board by not allowing more time
Well, that's the LibDems buggered then.
"The battle to rejoin starts here!"
"You, er, got any other policies?"
"Um...the battle to rejoin starts here!"
Their electoral argument is quite clear. A relatively hard Brexit like this enables the twin extremes of British politics, to which they provide an alternative.
I can't believe we don't have Cokanasiga on the bench, he is a one man wrecking ball.
Can't help thinking that's two mistakes, but we'll see.
I am not a massive fan of Ford, but Slade has only played part of a game and got injured. And I would have Coskanasiga in the squad every time, as players start tiring and we would get to send on a 6ft5 19 stone monster that runs like the wind.
The DUPs protestations about the GFA dont hold up, the Irish wouldn't torpedo it any more than we would. It's all about mot having a veto. They shouldn't, it's a disgraceful idea
And if they can get a majority at Stormont they effectively will have a veto. Sinn Fein would have to collapse the assembly to stop it.
But the Stormont voting system is proportional and designed to include a wide range of parties. A unionist majority is possible, but unlike. A DUP majority isn’t.
But the UUP have the same position as them, so could join them in forcing an exit.
There are 90 seats in the NI Assembly. At present these are split as:
That looks like a fairly firm majority in favour of continuing the arrangements. Amusingly, if we assume that all Unionists will vote against the arrangements, and everyone else will vote for them, then the 50:40 split is, in percentage terms 55.6%:44.4% which is very close to the referendum result in NI, which was 55.8%:44.2%
First: to be completed in terms of the Benn Act the agreement must be completed in terms of Article 50 of the Lisbon treaty which means the EU Parliament must okay it - and they aren't sitting until 21 October.
So the Benn Act will apply.
I can't see anything wrong with that argument.
The Benn Act: "a Minister of the Crown has laid before each House of Parliament a statement that the United Kingdom has concluded an agreement with the European Union under Article 50(2) of the Treaty on European Union and a copy of the agreement and— (a) the agreement has been approved by resolution of the House of Commons on a motion moved by a Minister of the Crown"
Article 50(2): "It [the agreement] shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament."
First: to be completed in terms of the Benn Act the agreement must be completed in terms of Article 50 of the Lisbon treaty which means the EU Parliament must okay it - and they aren't sitting until 21 October.
"(1) It shall be unlawful for Her Majesty’s Government to enter into arrangements under which Northern Ireland forms part of a separate customs territory to Great Britain."
"(2) For the purposes of this section “customs territory” shall have the same meaning as in the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade 1947 as amended."
So that would have to be repealed by Parliament, which is possible but unlikely. In any case, the first impediment remains.
It's Extension, hold a 3rd ref or a GE before 31 Oct, Revoke or civil war (in decreasing order of probability).
And if on Saturday Boris reads out a letter from Juncker that says "The 27 heads of state are aware of the provisions of the Benn Act. However, having discussed the matter, the unanimous view is that even if such a request for an extension is received, no further extension will be granted, to 31st January or any other date."
Boris's tanks will just have driven round the Maginot Line.......
First: to be completed in terms of the Benn Act the agreement must be completed in terms of Article 50 of the Lisbon treaty which means the EU Parliament must okay it - and they aren't sitting until 21 October.
"(1) It shall be unlawful for Her Majesty’s Government to enter into arrangements under which Northern Ireland forms part of a separate customs territory to Great Britain."
"(2) For the purposes of this section “customs territory” shall have the same meaning as in the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade 1947 as amended."
So that would have to be repealed by Parliament, which is possible but unlikely. In any case, the first impediment remains.
It's Extension, hold a 3rd ref or a GE before 31 Oct, Revoke or civil war (in decreasing order of probability).
And if on Saturday Boris reads out a letter from Juncker that says "The 27 heads of state are aware of the provisions of the Benn Act. However, having discussed the matter, the unanimous view is that even if such a request for an extension is received, no further extension will be granted, to 31st January or any other date."
Boris's tanks will just have driven round the Maginot Line.......
The DUPs protestations about the GFA dont hold up, the Irish wouldn't torpedo it any more than we would. It's all about mot having a veto. They shouldn't, it's a disgraceful idea
And if they can get a majority at Stormont they effectively will have a veto. Sinn Fein would have to collapse the assembly to stop it.
But the Stormont voting system is proportional and designed to include a wide range of parties. A unionist majority is possible, but unlike. A DUP majority isn’t.
But the UUP have the same position as them, so could join them in forcing an exit.
46 seats needed for a majority, DUP + UUP + TUV currently 39.
Nigel Farage is a pathetic weasally parody of a Brexiteer. We have a good deal here with a transition and a Political Declaration and agreement that we are seeking a Free Trade Agreement. It is a proper exit from the EU and exactly what Brexiteers including him campaigned for during the referendum . . .
And he's now calling not for an exit of the EU with this but an extension and an election where Brexit could be overturned? Don't be ridiculous! The backstop had fundamental problems, they've been dealt with, now only people who don't want Brexit will oppose this.
Farage seems to be saying the whole thing should be torpedoed just because of what's in the poltical declaration (which is non-binding and subject to change and negotaitation in the FTA)
Final proof that Farage is a chancer and just want to stay on the EU gravy train and posture.
If it hadn’t been for Farage there’d have been no referendum, and the sleepy, flabby centrism of Cameron, Miliband or Clegg would have been our non choices for decades.
But I have to say I am disappointed he can’t bring himself to say well done, and move on here. Winning the referendum was not worth it if we don’t ever leave. If he wants to influence the way the country is run afterwards he can stand for election again.
His previous attempts at standing for election may have convinced him this is his last chance at influencing the way the country is run.
I would have thought he'd stand a better chance of being elected by accepting the deal and standing as the candidate who ensures there's no backtracking. Standing for No Deal when a deal has been agreed will be unpopular in my opinion.
How many people think free movement will end on November 1st?
All the northern Irish unionist parties are opposed to the latest deal. Can’t see that causing any problems.
Today is the first definitive proof of what we've all known was coming. That the Conservative Party is now a post-unionist party. And with that news that the UK now has no UK wide governing party of a capital U unionist nature. The psychological shock will take a while to work through.
It is now a populist English nationalist party. The consequences will be that those parts of the union outside England will all in due course make their excuses and leave.
Not Wales. Wales is the definition of Stockholm syndrome. In my experience Welsh people have a superficial hatred of the English but a deeper hatred of themselves.
Wales has the fastest growing movement to break away from the UK. They could surprise you.
I do always love these posts. It's always break away from the UK, when what they really mean is "We hate the English".
Years ago I read an alternative history (For All Time if you're interested), where ENGLAND left the Union first, in the 1960s. Wales, Scotland and NI stayed together as the rump UK.
I'm a staunch unionist, but sometimes I do wonder if that might be an answer to stop all the whinging.
Nigel Farage is a pathetic weasally parody of a Brexiteer. We have a good deal here with a transition and a Political Declaration and agreement that we are seeking a Free Trade Agreement. It is a proper exit from the EU and exactly what Brexiteers including him campaigned for during the referendum . . .
And he's now calling not for an exit of the EU with this but an extension and an election where Brexit could be overturned? Don't be ridiculous! The backstop had fundamental problems, they've been dealt with, now only people who don't want Brexit will oppose this.
Farage seems to be saying the whole thing should be torpedoed just because of what's in the poltical declaration (which is non-binding and subject to change and negotaitation in the FTA)
Final proof that Farage is a chancer and just want to stay on the EU gravy train and posture.
If it hadn’t been for Farage there’d have been no referendum, and the sleepy, flabby centrism of Cameron, Miliband or Clegg would have been our non choices for decades.
But I have to say I am disappointed he can’t bring himself to say well done, and move on here. Winning the referendum was not worth it if we don’t ever leave. If he wants to influence the way the country is run afterwards he can stand for election again.
His previous attempts at standing for election may have convinced him this is his last chance at influencing the way the country is run.
I would have thought he'd stand a better chance of being elected by accepting the deal and standing as the candidate who ensures there's no backtracking. Standing for No Deal when a deal has been agreed will be unpopular in my opinion.
How many people think free movement will end on November 1st?
Looks like the EU are on board by not allowing more time
If true that certainly adds a different slant to Saturday's events.
Will Jolyon Maugham take Junker to the European Court ?!
There is some uncertainty around here about whether he lodged his latest petition seeking to stop Parliament debating the deal. It seemed seriously ill conceived.
The essential premise is that this deal contravenes s55 of the cross border Act which prevents the UK government from interfering with the integrity of the UK customs union. It is probably true that this deal would require that piece of legislation to be amended but Parliament can do that.
Looks like the EU are on board by not allowing more time
Well, that's the LibDems buggered then.
"The battle to rejoin starts here!"
"You, er, got any other policies?"
"Um...the battle to rejoin starts here!"
Their electoral argument is quite clear. A relatively hard Brexit like this enables the twin extremes of British politics, to which they provide an alternative.
Their "alternative" has been to over-ride the 17.4m who voted for Brexit.
First: to be completed in terms of the Benn Act the agreement must be completed in terms of Article 50 of the Lisbon treaty which means the EU Parliament must okay it - and they aren't sitting until 21 October.
"(1) It shall be unlawful for Her Majesty’s Government to enter into arrangements under which Northern Ireland forms part of a separate customs territory to Great Britain."
"(2) For the purposes of this section “customs territory” shall have the same meaning as in the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade 1947 as amended."
So that would have to be repealed by Parliament, which is possible but unlikely. In any case, the first impediment remains.
It's Extension, hold a 3rd ref or a GE before 31 Oct, Revoke or civil war (in decreasing order of probability).
And if on Saturday Boris reads out a letter from Juncker that says "The 27 heads of state are aware of the provisions of the Benn Act. However, having discussed the matter, the unanimous view is that even if such a request for an extension is received, no further extension will be granted, to 31st January or any other date."
Boris's tanks will just have driven round the Maginot Line.......
I think that's just a fantasy.
Maybe. But Juncker leaves on 31st and Ursula takes over on 1st.
They do not want this shit show raining on Ursula's parade, IMO. So if they have to play tough with Parliament to get this deal over the line they might just do it...
He needs to offer all the ex-Tory rebels reinstatement of the whip, threaten the ERG with removal of the whip, and get 15-20 Labour rebels on board?
Tough maths,
It entirely depends whether the EU says no more extensions. It's this deal or no deal.
If they do that then Parliament is left with no where else to go other than to vote for the deal.
Except for revoke. Parliament will force the government to do so rather than no deal. Of course the government could reinvoke a moment later, but that just shows that the EU can’t practically deny an extension.
All the northern Irish unionist parties are opposed to the latest deal. Can’t see that causing any problems.
Today is the first definitive proof of what we've all known was coming. That the Conservative Party is now a post-unionist party. And with that news that the UK now has no UK wide governing party of a capital U unionist nature. The psychological shock will take a while to work through.
It is now a populist English nationalist party. The consequences will be that those parts of the union outside England will all in due course make their excuses and leave.
Yes, and it will get easier over time. Once the Union becomes contingent and transactional for one part who will really ' die in a ditch ' for Scotland ? Etc etc. I'm confident Nicola Sturgeon 8s looking at the detail of the ' frontstop ' with a satisfied smile.
I started my Kubler-Ross process for my Britishness on 24/6/16 and that decision is paying off.
For sure , given they crap on us at every opportunity as it is , it will only get worse. Sooner we are out the better.
The DUPs protestations about the GFA dont hold up, the Irish wouldn't torpedo it any more than we would. It's all about mot having a veto. They shouldn't, it's a disgraceful idea
And if they can get a majority at Stormont they effectively will have a veto. Sinn Fein would have to collapse the assembly to stop it.
But the Stormont voting system is proportional and designed to include a wide range of parties. A unionist majority is possible, but unlike. A DUP majority isn’t.
But the UUP have the same position as them, so could join them in forcing an exit.
There are 90 seats in the NI Assembly. At present these are split as:
That looks like a fairly firm majority in favour of continuing the arrangements. Amusingly, if we assume that all Unionists will vote against the arrangements, and everyone else will vote for them, then the 50:40 split is, in percentage terms 55.6%:44.4% which is very close to the referendum result in NI, which was 55.8%:44.2%
Echoes everywhere.
The clever part of the Bozo plan is to have come up with an exit route from the backstop (or its replacement) that in practice is very unlikely ever to be triggered. Of course, it may have been the EU’s idea, who knows?
All the northern Irish unionist parties are opposed to the latest deal. Can’t see that causing any problems.
Today is the first definitive proof of what we've all known was coming. That the Conservative Party is now a post-unionist party. And with that news that the UK now has no UK wide governing party of a capital U unionist nature. The psychological shock will take a while to work through.
It is now a populist English nationalist party. The consequences will be that those parts of the union outside England will all in due course make their excuses and leave.
Not Wales. Wales is the definition of Stockholm syndrome. In my experience Welsh people have a superficial hatred of the English but a deeper hatred of themselves.
Wales has the fastest growing movement to break away from the UK. They could surprise you.
I do always love these posts. It's always break away from the UK, when what they really mean is "We hate the English".
Years ago I read an alternative history (For All Time if you're interested), where ENGLAND left the Union first, in the 1960s. Wales, Scotland and NI stayed together as the rump UK.
I'm a staunch unionist, but sometimes I do wonder if that might be an answer to stop all the whinging.
I thought William Glenn was English. Is he one of those self hating types?
Comments
Final proof that Farage is a chancer and just wants to stay on the EU gravy train and posture.
Farage is a complete hack. He clearly does not give a damn about Brexit, outside of how it can help him get power.
AGAINST DEAL - Possible that some of the 21 who voted for MV3 will vote against Johnson. I think most of these prefer a deal to any other option, so will still vote for. Can Amber Rudd manage another volte-face to go through the same lobby as Johnson on this deal? Probably. It would be surprising if there weren't a few ERG holdouts, though. The Brecon & Radnorshire by-election moves one vote against the deal too.
FOR DEAL - Now that the level playing field provisions are back in, albeit in the political declaration, the way is open for more Labour Leaver support. Not that much more, though. Would be surprised to see more than a handful extra MPs. It does look like much of the ERG will swing behind the deal.
WILDCARD - What does Theresa May think about the border in the Irish Sea [North Channel]? She said no British PM could support one, but now that she is merely a backbench MP might she do so? I doubt she will speak in Saturday's debate, but if she did it could be an explosive intervention if she were to speak against the deal.
I think this goes down to the wire and it will be a single figure majority either way.
And if any complacency sets in, they will surprise.
But I know Wales. Nationalism doesn't get a look in. Jingoism and petty racism is fine, but never Welsh nationalism.
It's almost like I wargamed it.
Would the EU really want to force matters like that though?
So the Benn Act will apply.
Second: Section 55, Taxation (Cross-border Trade) Act 2018:
"(1) It shall be unlawful for Her Majesty’s Government to enter into arrangements under which Northern Ireland forms part of a separate customs territory to Great Britain."
"(2) For the purposes of this section “customs territory” shall have the same meaning as in the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade 1947 as amended."
So that would have to be repealed by Parliament, which is possible but unlikely. In any case, the first impediment remains.
It's Extension, hold a 3rd ref or a GE before 31 Oct, Revoke or civil war (in decreasing order of probability).
But I have to say I am disappointed he can’t bring himself to say well done, and move on here. Winning the referendum was not worth it if we don’t ever leave. If he wants to influence the way the country is run afterwards he can stand for election again.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/50067955
I can't believe we don't have Cokanasiga on the bench, he is a one man wrecking ball.
The vote will be close, but I don’t think Boris has the numbers unless he can make the DUP change their minds. Which if he does he’ll follow up with parting the Red Sea and feeding the five thousand.
Any who vote it down or vote for a referendum the party should immediately commence selecting a new candidate for their seat.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/17/squad-bernie-sanders-progressive-2020
Hilarity if the XR protestors manage to stop any MPs from attending!
What time on that day is John Bercow due to retire from the Speaker's chair?
I do like a good bit of drama.
Looks like the EU are on board by not allowing more time
Unfortunately, it's probably quite a step from stating you don't want any more extensions, to actively refusing one with all the resulting consequences.
Personally, I've been wanting that situation for a while though - forces Parliament to stop playing silly games and actually make a choice.
He only has two arguments: Northern Ireland and level playing field. Most don't care about Northern Ireland and anyway they get to participate in most aspects, even trade deals. And the level playing field is not even committed to - it is just needed for a FTA. Just like it was for Japan and Canada. Plus Leavers across the North, Wales and Midlands presumably quite like their holiday allowances.
Don’t underestimate how important the experience of the past three years has been in shaping attitudes now. In particular the ERG nuts have had the salutary experience of nearly being responsible for sinking their own project.
He needs to offer all the ex-Tory rebels reinstatement of the whip, threaten the ERG with removal of the whip, and get 15-20 Labour rebels on board?
Tough maths,
And my impression is that Cardiff attitudes can be a bit "there be dragons" once you're beyond the southern third.
"The battle to rejoin starts here!"
"You, er, got any other policies?"
"Um...the battle to rejoin starts here!"
Oh lord, he has https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-50076186
They wouldn't have to on goods entering GB.
Combined with Farage's best arguments being taken away from him, Johnson will win big on an election focused on Brexit. He has gone from being the extremist to being the adult in the room.
I think I need to lie down.
If they do that then Parliament is left with no where else to go other than to vote for the deal.
A relatively hard Brexit like this enables the twin extremes of British politics, to which they provide an alternative.
Unionist (DUP+UUP+TUV+Ind) = 40
Nationalist (SF+SDLP) = 39
Other (All+Grn+PBP) = 11
That looks like a fairly firm majority in favour of continuing the arrangements. Amusingly, if we assume that all Unionists will vote against the arrangements, and everyone else will vote for them, then the 50:40 split is, in percentage terms 55.6%:44.4% which is very close to the referendum result in NI, which was 55.8%:44.2%
Echoes everywhere.
The Benn Act:
"a Minister of the Crown has laid before each House of Parliament a statement that the United Kingdom has concluded an agreement with the European Union under Article 50(2) of the Treaty on European Union and a copy of the agreement and—
(a) the agreement has been approved by resolution of the House of Commons on a motion moved by a Minister of the Crown"
Article 50(2):
"It [the agreement] shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament."
I will, however, laugh my arse off if Rory Stewart and Dominic Grieve end up back in the Tory Party, and Francois gets chucked out.
Perhaps this is Boris' revenge, as Francois beat him to the nomination for PPC for Wickford all those years ago. Talk about a long game.
Boris's tanks will just have driven round the Maginot Line.......
https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1184815625706885121
Years ago I read an alternative history (For All Time if you're interested), where ENGLAND left the Union first, in the 1960s.
Wales, Scotland and NI stayed together as the rump UK.
I'm a staunch unionist, but sometimes I do wonder if that might be an answer to stop all the whinging.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/g3rfhm0kg9f3kjy/Unsigned Petition as lodged .pdf?dl=0
The essential premise is that this deal contravenes s55 of the cross border Act which prevents the UK government from interfering with the integrity of the UK customs union. It is probably true that this deal would require that piece of legislation to be amended but Parliament can do that.
How very Liberal, how very Democratic.....
They do not want this shit show raining on Ursula's parade, IMO. So if they have to play tough with Parliament to get this deal over the line they might just do it...