Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » At the end of the tunnel

245

Comments

  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Andy_JS said:

    Good evening. Just seen this new YouGov poll.

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1182620121300459521

    GRN 6% REALLY
    I suspect most of that would swing behind Labour in a GE - taking Labour back up to circa 28% before any falling back in the LD vote.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    TGOHF2 said:
    I think the past 24-48hrs has proved that quite clearly! :D
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    stodge said:




    The LibDems are a hysterically anti-Brexit, middle class party for those who have no interest in anyone other than their prosperous selves.

    Nick Clegg's departure to act as a shill for Facebook sums them up. I note most of LibDems on pb.com have been too ashamed to remark on the record-breakingly derisory tax paid by Facebook, in the news today.

    The LibDems will always let you down. It is one thing in politics you can always rely on.

    Why don't you tell us what you really think? Day after day, the continual tedious anti-Lib Dem whingeing and moaning.

    I am not affiliated with any party, but I am happy to point out gross hypocrisy.

    Any comment on Facebook's tax & Nick Clegg ?
    Well to be consistent you need to do that for all parties I must admit your allegiance has always confused me but there are equally good targets worthy of your scorn beyond the LibDems
  • TGOHF2 said:
    Dick Spring? He hasn't been Tánaiste in years.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038

    TGOHF2 said:
    Dick Spring? He hasn't been Tánaiste in years.
    I fear that a number of PBers have been lacking Dick Spring for even longer...
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    Is that the mid point between an Irish front and rear bottom ?
  • TGOHF2 said:
    Dick Spring? He hasn't been Tánaiste in years.
    I fear that a number of PBers have been lacking Dick Spring for even longer...
    Well, no-one's getting any younger.
  • rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    Re the Lib Dem’s @rcs1000... I am pretty confident they will return to a distant third once Brexit is done and Corbyn goes.

    I think Corbyn going is the key one... If the Labour Party were to put in place an internationalist (non-antimsemitic Marxist), then that would dent them most.

    But the UK is split on nationalist/internationalist lines. And that is a seam that the LDs can capitalise on.

    Let me put this another way: 100 years ago the Liberals found themselves without a clear position as the UK's voting axis switched.

    Now, there's a new switch to the nationalist/internationalist axis, and it's Labour who doesn't have a clear position this time. They need to be nationalist in their former working class heartlandsm and internationalist in the Cities.

    I could be completely wrong, of course. But that's how the UK feels like it's moving to me.
    This is crap - Just because the leavers don't want to be in that farce of a democracy and large bureaucratic expense that is the EU we are "nationalist". I live in Scotland - If you want to experience Nationalism come here.
    There are few people who experience what you experience, even in the more numerically limited terms of Scotland's population.
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,565
    nichomar said:

    tpfkar said:

    There's only 3 end states, no deal, deal and revoke.

    I suspect enough MPs will at this point take the middle ground rather than risk the alternative.

    They can claim to be healing divides. It's the British way.

    Watch them go for deal via referendum....cos you know that just what we need. More uncertainty.
    That surely is the best way out from here, chance of a clear result either way, we don’t leave until we’re sure there’s a majority, the vote could suck some of the poison out, and whatever the result we find a way to move on. The ‘anti-democratic’ moaners will struggle to be heard complaining about such a vote in practice while a GE will always give a confused
    Mandate on Brexit whatever the result.
    I’m afraid the loony leavers will think they can invalidate such a vote by boycotting it but that would be their problem.
    Agreed. That just sounds like getting the excuses for losing in early. If you would prefer to leave with this deal than remain then vote for it. If you want to complain about this flavour of Brexit not being right and chasing your favourite unicorn then fair enough, but if you don’t vote for the leave option then you don’t have a preference and those who do can settle the matter. We know 52% want(ed) Brexit in theory but how many want it in practice?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    It's always worth remembering that a majority of the ERG caved and voted for the WA under May, it's not even the ERG who need persuading, it's the spartans, without losing too many in the other direction. But as the header notes the numbers even being possible requires those Labour votes. And they know it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236

    TGOHF2 said:
    Dick Spring? He hasn't been Tánaiste in years.
    I fear that a number of PBers have been lacking Dick Spring for even longer...
    Though for most of use the normal mode of operation is hydraulic...
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    Re the Lib Dem’s @rcs1000... I am pretty confident they will return to a distant third once Brexit is done and Corbyn goes.

    I think Corbyn going is the key one... If the Labour Party were to put in place an internationalist (non-antimsemitic Marxist), then that would dent them most.

    But the UK is split on nationalist/internationalist lines. And that is a seam that the LDs can capitalise on.

    Let me put this another way: 100 years ago the Liberals found themselves without a clear position as the UK's voting axis switched.

    Now, there's a new switch to the nationalist/internationalist axis, and it's Labour who doesn't have a clear position this time. They need to be nationalist in their former working class heartlandsm and internationalist in the Cities.

    I could be completely wrong, of course. But that's how the UK feels like it's moving to me.
    This is crap - Just because the leavers don't want to be in that farce of a democracy and large bureaucratic expense that is the EU we are "nationalist". I live in Scotland - If you want to experience Nationalism come here.
    There are few people who experience what you experience, even in the more numerically limited terms of Scotland's population.
    Although if he voiced those views he may find a degree of resistance to them.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,900


    I am not affiliated with any party, but I am happy to point out gross hypocrisy.

    Any comment on Facebook's tax & Nick Clegg ?

    I don't know who died and appointed you Hypocrisy-finder General but Boris Johnson is Prime Minister and if you want to look for hypocrisy that may be one place to start.

    I don't know why you bother.

    As for Facebook and Nick Clegg, I'm not in the least bothered or concerned. Last time I looked Nick wasn't a MP, peer or even a local councillor. He was DPM once but that was a long time ago. He's in his early 50s and has a right to a career and employment without having to be hounded.

    You spent most of the B&R by-election having pop after pop at Jane Dodds - you don't like the Lib Dems fine, that's your right. They obviously said or did something you took particular offence to once long long ago. Just move on.

  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    TGOHF2 said:
    Dick Spring? He hasn't been Tánaiste in years.
    I fear that a number of PBers have been lacking Dick Spring for even longer...
    Well, no-one's getting any younger.

    TGOHF2 said:
    Dick Spring? He hasn't been Tánaiste in years.
    I fear that a number of PBers have been lacking Dick Spring for even longer...
    Well, no-one's getting any younger.
    I must admit I thought the only people still on PB at 1:30 in the morning were missing their dick spring
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Tories took a pounding in the basingstoke local by, dropping 24% and losing to an independent
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,865
    The Stephen Kinnock group may prove critical in this. If they are willing to support a deal it may not matter too much what the whipless 21 do. As it happens I think that most of the 21 would support a deal as opposed to a no deal Brexit. The likes of Rory the ex Tory certainly would.

    What is now looking less likely is that Boris will have a deal to present to Parliament. I didn’t frankly expect that. Will the remainers have the chutzpah to reject it once again? I think that is less likely than it seemed. I’d like to say Things can only get better but that’s going far too far.
  • Nigelb said:

    TGOHF2 said:
    Dick Spring? He hasn't been Tánaiste in years.
    I fear that a number of PBers have been lacking Dick Spring for even longer...
    Though for most of use the normal mode of operation is hydraulic...
    Hey, some of us are old school cable operated.
  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276
    What's the position re the Benn act if a deal is reached and it's rejected by the HoC post 19th?

    Is there a requirement to request an extension?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    DavidL said:

    The Stephen Kinnock group may prove critical in this. If they are willing to support a deal it may not matter too much what the whipless 21 do. As it happens I think that most of the 21 would support a deal as opposed to a no deal Brexit. The likes of Rory the ex Tory certainly would.

    What is now looking less likely is that Boris will have a deal to present to Parliament. I didn’t frankly expect that. Will the remainers have the chutzpah to reject it once again? I think that is less likely than it seemed. I’d like to say Things can only get better but that’s going far too far.

    Whilst I think I know what you’re saying read it again unless you really think it’s less likely he has a deal?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    GIN1138 said:
    Majority in 2015 - 1,831
    Majority in 2017 - 1,832

    Remarkably stable for such a riotous period.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Scott_P said:
    Cashing in on the wildly popular policy of more Brexit debate in the country for several months
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    What's the position re the Benn act if a deal is reached and it's rejected by the HoC post 19th?

    Is there a requirement to request an extension?

    Yes
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    TGOHF2 said:

    Why?
  • FlannerFlanner Posts: 437
    stodge said:



    I note most of LibDems on pb.com have been too ashamed to remark on the record-breakingly derisory tax paid by Facebook, in the news today.

    Has it occurred to your commercial illiteracy that there's very likely two excellent reason Facebook pays "only" £20 mn on £90 mn profit:

    1. THAT'S THE ****ING TAX RATE IN BRITAIN
    2. Should it be more? Only if they're making more than £90mn. Which, given that all these tech businesses are as commercially incompetent as you obviously are, is highly unlikely
    Just about all of them - Amazon, Tesla, Uber - lose money by the ton BECAUSE THEY'RE RUN BY ASSHOLES.
    Who've discovered they themselves make more money by losing it, but telling Wall St they'll make gazillions one day. So they make huge amounts personally on their shares appreciating - which in the US attracts no tax.
    They ensure their companies lose money. And commercial idiots like you make sure no-one twigs them because you keep on lobbying about a non-issue.

    Useful idiots, Lenin's supposed to have called people like you.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131

    Nigelb said:

    TGOHF2 said:
    Dick Spring? He hasn't been Tánaiste in years.
    I fear that a number of PBers have been lacking Dick Spring for even longer...
    Though for most of use the normal mode of operation is hydraulic...
    Hey, some of us are old school cable operated.
    Does anybody remember that picture of the US Marines erecting a flagpole?

    :neutral:
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,605
    justin124 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Good evening. Just seen this new YouGov poll.

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1182620121300459521

    GRN 6% REALLY
    I suspect most of that would swing behind Labour in a GE - taking Labour back up to circa 28% before any falling back in the LD vote.
    There was a YouGov poll that indicated that 40% of the Green vote would go to Labour and 40% to LibDems. I assume it would be constituency specific and tactical.
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    nichomar said:
    Dicking around for another 6 months with the chance it goes wrong.

    Get on with it..
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,865
    Btw and completely o/t all credit to the Dundee Courier and Advertiser who have this week run a front page story about the government increasing the Public Services Work Board interest rate by 1% when gilt rates have fallen to their lowest for several hundred years. God knows what percentage of their readers will have the faintest clue what they are talking about but this is a genuinely important story.

    Boris has been saying that the government should use low gilts to fund infrastructure spending. He’s right but the Treasury action is completely inconsistent with such a policy and seems designed to discourage capital spending by local authorities. What the hell is going on?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    The Cummings dick quote appears to be disputed.

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1182740438761066497?s=21
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    DavidL said:

    The Stephen Kinnock group may prove critical in this. If they are willing to support a deal it may not matter too much what the whipless 21 do. As it happens I think that most of the 21 would support a deal as opposed to a no deal Brexit. The likes of Rory the ex Tory certainly would.

    What is now looking less likely is that Boris will have a deal to present to Parliament. I didn’t frankly expect that. Will the remainers have the chutzpah to reject it once again? I think that is less likely than it seemed. I’d like to say Things can only get better but that’s going far too far.

    Reject? Perhaps not (though I'd not take that bet personally. But tack on a referendum to it if they can and refuse it on that basis? Sure.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    nichomar said:

    stodge said:




    The LibDems are a hysterically anti-Brexit, middle class party for those who have no interest in anyone other than their prosperous selves.

    Nick Clegg's departure to act as a shill for Facebook sums them up. I note most of LibDems on pb.com have been too ashamed to remark on the record-breakingly derisory tax paid by Facebook, in the news today.

    The LibDems will always let you down. It is one thing in politics you can always rely on.

    Why don't you tell us what you really think? Day after day, the continual tedious anti-Lib Dem whingeing and moaning.

    I am not affiliated with any party, but I am happy to point out gross hypocrisy.

    Any comment on Facebook's tax & Nick Clegg ?
    Well to be consistent you need to do that for all parties I must admit your allegiance has always confused me but there are equally good targets worthy of your scorn beyond the LibDems
    I have consistently criticised Labour for their disastrous handling of Welsh education (although perhaps a little unfairly in recent years, as the canny "Welsh" Labour party has handed the brief to Dim Kirsty, who is making a predictable hash of the task).

    I have criticised Plaid Cymru for making a stupid alliance with the hysterical LibDems. Plaid Cymru should be reaching out to those those abandoned post-industrial communities that – in desperation – voted Brexit. Instead, Plaid Cymru will be telling the poor, economically struggling, working class people of Tredegar, Tonypandy or Llanelli that they are stupid, racist, misinformed or self- destructive, like a ranting Meeks.

    I have never criticised the Tories. I expect the Tories to have absolutely zero interest in the poor or in Wales. They have never once disappointed me.

    I would like a party to vote for, but I can't see myself voting in the next GE. That is because Wales faces a very bleak future.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    TGOHF2 said:

    nichomar said:
    Dicking around for another 6 months with the chance it goes wrong.

    Get on with it..
    The British delegation will push for no extension longer than a technical one as part of the tunnel talks, try and shut down any ridiculous traps
  • ITV coverage of football is absolutely shit.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Barnesian said:

    justin124 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Good evening. Just seen this new YouGov poll.

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1182620121300459521

    GRN 6% REALLY
    I suspect most of that would swing behind Labour in a GE - taking Labour back up to circa 28% before any falling back in the LD vote.
    There was a YouGov poll that indicated that 40% of the Green vote would go to Labour and 40% to LibDems. I assume it would be constituency specific and tactical.
    In a GE I would expect Labour to pick up more than that - and the LDs themselves are likely to fade.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    nichomar said:

    What's the position re the Benn act if a deal is reached and it's rejected by the HoC post 19th?

    Is there a requirement to request an extension?

    Yes
    Then it will definitely be rejected. There will always be a better deal - the Labour leavers can say to themselves that s they would vote for a deal, just not this one.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    ITV coverage of football is absolutely shit.

    I thought the football was shit but it could be ITVs fault
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,129
    edited October 2019
    nichomar said:

    ITV coverage of football is absolutely shit.

    I thought the football was shit but it could be ITVs fault
    The football is shit and the punditry is even worse. Keane, Wright and Dixon provide bugger all insight into how England should adjust, its all jokey buddy buddy when we played stuff.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    Scott_P said:
    A lot of Labour Remainers in Leave seats like Nandy and Flint aren't keen.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,865
    nichomar said:

    DavidL said:

    The Stephen Kinnock group may prove critical in this. If they are willing to support a deal it may not matter too much what the whipless 21 do. As it happens I think that most of the 21 would support a deal as opposed to a no deal Brexit. The likes of Rory the ex Tory certainly would.

    What is now looking less likely is that Boris will have a deal to present to Parliament. I didn’t frankly expect that. Will the remainers have the chutzpah to reject it once again? I think that is less likely than it seemed. I’d like to say Things can only get better but that’s going far too far.

    Whilst I think I know what you’re saying read it again unless you really think it’s less likely he has a deal?
    The joy of typing on an iphone. I meant, as I think you guessed despite my best efforts, that I did not think he would get a deal but it now looks more likely that he will.
  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268

    Scott_P said:
    Cashing in on the wildly popular policy of more Brexit debate in the country for several months
    We actually have chance to unite around a deal that is acceptable to Varadkar, Foster and Barnier, so of course Labour try to blow it up again.

    Politicians just can't stop themselves from being complete wankers, can they?
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    EU may be very reluctant to offer an extension if a deal is agreed. Certainly not a long one. To do what? There will be no new offers of deals.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    Gabs2 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Cashing in on the wildly popular policy of more Brexit debate in the country for several months
    We actually have chance to unite around a deal that is acceptable to Varadkar, Foster and Barnier, so of course Labour try to blow it up again.

    Politicians just can't stop themselves from being complete wankers, can they?
    Anything to delay the moment of reckoning in a general election. ;)
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    nichomar said:

    Omnium said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Would be funny if it's a tie and Bercow gets the casting vote.

    Could we see Bercow voting for Brexit? :D

    In such circumstances I guess he'd feel obliged to do so. He'd have to consider that voting with the government was slightly more the thing to do, and similarly that there was some sort of public mandate that way. Bercow has got much of his recent time in office rather wrong, but I think he's been trying to get it right. So yes we could.
    I thought the universal role of casting vote was to go with the status quo ie no change. So he should by convention vote to not leave the EU, there is plenty of logic for that approach.
    The trouble is that unless there's an extension, voting against a deal is voting to leave the EU without a deal.
  • Gabs2 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Cashing in on the wildly popular policy of more Brexit debate in the country for several months
    We actually have chance to unite around a deal that is acceptable to Varadkar, Foster and Barnier, so of course Labour try to blow it up again.

    Politicians just can't stop themselves from being complete wankers, can they?
    They're run by a useless idiot, and his even more useless cronies, it is hardly surprising.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Gabs2 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Cashing in on the wildly popular policy of more Brexit debate in the country for several months
    We actually have chance to unite around a deal that is acceptable to Varadkar, Foster and Barnier, so of course Labour try to blow it up again.

    Politicians just can't stop themselves from being complete wankers, can they?
    Oh I think the electorate will eviscerate the partys that prolong the misery
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    TGOHF2 said:

    nichomar said:
    Dicking around for another 6 months with the chance it goes wrong.

    Get on with it..
    Only because that’s what you want
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    Gabs2 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Cashing in on the wildly popular policy of more Brexit debate in the country for several months
    We actually have chance to unite around a deal that is acceptable to Varadkar, Foster and Barnier, so of course Labour try to blow it up again.

    Politicians just can't stop themselves from being complete wankers, can they?
    Oh I think the electorate will eviscerate the partys that prolong the misery
    Not necessarily. Remaining requires prolonging the misery for some time, so for plenty a little more prolonging is a necessary evil.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293

    EU may be very reluctant to offer an extension if a deal is agreed. Certainly not a long one. To do what? There will be no new offers of deals.

    Yep. Surely the EU won't want this shit show rumbling on into the start of Ursula's reign.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited October 2019
    stodge said:


    I am not affiliated with any party, but I am happy to point out gross hypocrisy.

    Any comment on Facebook's tax & Nick Clegg ?

    I don't know who died and appointed you Hypocrisy-finder General but Boris Johnson is Prime Minister and if you want to look for hypocrisy that may be one place to start.

    I don't know why you bother.

    As for Facebook and Nick Clegg, I'm not in the least bothered or concerned. Last time I looked Nick wasn't a MP, peer or even a local councillor. He was DPM once but that was a long time ago. He's in his early 50s and has a right to a career and employment without having to be hounded.

    You spent most of the B&R by-election having pop after pop at Jane Dodds - you don't like the Lib Dems fine, that's your right. They obviously said or did something you took particular offence to once long long ago. Just move on.

    "... a long time ago" .... I thought it was in 2015.

    As pointed out acutely by another_richard, Clegg & Cameron & Co said "we were all in it together". That was a justification for austerity, we were all in it together.

    We're not all in it together.

    I object to Jane Dodds because of her derisory comments about the people of Montgomeryshire who opposed wind farms in the constituency.

    I object to the LibDems in mid-Wales because they have a long history of parachuting in people with no connection to Wales as MPs (Lembit Opik and the now no-longer a LibDem Alex Carlile or Lord Carlile of Berriew).
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    nichomar said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    nichomar said:
    Dicking around for another 6 months with the chance it goes wrong.

    Get on with it..
    Only because that’s what you want
    Only those that want to remain want a referendum.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,865

    TGOHF2 said:

    nichomar said:
    Dicking around for another 6 months with the chance it goes wrong.

    Get on with it..
    The British delegation will push for no extension longer than a technical one as part of the tunnel talks, try and shut down any ridiculous traps
    I can see an extension of about a month to get necessary regulations in place on both sides of the Channel and of course the Irish Sea. Can’t see that causing Boris any problems at all.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,900
    DavidL said:

    Btw and completely o/t all credit to the Dundee Courier and Advertiser who have this week run a front page story about the government increasing the Public Services Work Board interest rate by 1% when gilt rates have fallen to their lowest for several hundred years. God knows what percentage of their readers will have the faintest clue what they are talking about but this is a genuinely important story.

    Boris has been saying that the government should use low gilts to fund infrastructure spending. He’s right but the Treasury action is completely inconsistent with such a policy and seems designed to discourage capital spending by local authorities. What the hell is going on?

    Yes this is an interesting thing. A number of councils have used borrowing from the PWLB to fund investment property acquisitions (the likes of shopping centres, office blocks, hotels).

    As a source of funding, PWLB has been hugely useful and in the aftermath of the recession only councils and pension funds were still active in the commercial property market - there were some good investment deals to be had at that time and these provided a useful income stream to local authorities which central Government spending wouldn't affect.

    Now, that ship has sailed and when you see small district and borough councils borrowing hundreds of millions to get into the investment property game but the bargains have long gone.

    Instead, there is a growing disquiet about whether it is wholly appropriate for public money to be used in this way and many councils have halted investment acquisitions pending a review as to whether they are politically acceptable.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751

    EU may be very reluctant to offer an extension if a deal is agreed. Certainly not a long one. To do what? There will be no new offers of deals.

    If the deal will pass only with a Deal/Revoke referendum, then an extension sounds like a win-win situation for the EU (unless they're so sick of us they'd prefer us to leave).

    But what about Johnson? If he has to choose between his deal being voted down and agreeing to a referendum, what does he do?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,696

    ITV coverage of football is absolutely shit.

    nichomar said:

    ITV coverage of football is absolutely shit.

    I thought the football was shit but it could be ITVs fault
    If there's a worse commentator around than Mark Pougatch, I've been fortunate enough to avoid hearing them.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    nichomar said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    nichomar said:
    Dicking around for another 6 months with the chance it goes wrong.

    Get on with it..
    Only because that’s what you want
    Any new deal could itself contain a clause effectively saying this is the full and final offer. No extension beyond 31/10 save for implementing the deal and the deal must be ratified before 31/10. If I were Boris I that’s what I would do.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    TGOHF2 said:
    They will love the option of Remain
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    edited October 2019
    Chris said:

    nichomar said:

    Omnium said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Would be funny if it's a tie and Bercow gets the casting vote.

    Could we see Bercow voting for Brexit? :D

    In such circumstances I guess he'd feel obliged to do so. He'd have to consider that voting with the government was slightly more the thing to do, and similarly that there was some sort of public mandate that way. Bercow has got much of his recent time in office rather wrong, but I think he's been trying to get it right. So yes we could.
    I thought the universal role of casting vote was to go with the status quo ie no change. So he should by convention vote to not leave the EU, there is plenty of logic for that approach.
    The trouble is that unless there's an extension, voting against a deal is voting to leave the EU without a deal.
    It’s not there are still alternatives just because you are tired of the argument you dont have to put up with any old shit is silly. But we really should wait and see what emerges from the tunnel, three weeks ago the nearest tunnel to me was six foot deep in water.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    isam said:
    What's the joke here? I don't understand the joke. The libertarian running the parody account is criticising a company's right to free association?

    Does he think Flora should be forced to advertise on Mumsnet?

    WHAT'S THE JOKE
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,696
    edited October 2019

    EU may be very reluctant to offer an extension if a deal is agreed. Certainly not a long one. To do what? There will be no new offers of deals.

    Though you may not want it yourself, I think the EU would allow a 6 month extension to run a confirmatory referendum on any agreed deal.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    TGOHF2 said:
    Dick Spring? He hasn't been Tánaiste in years.
    I fear that a number of PBers have been lacking Dick Spring for even longer...
    Though for most of use the normal mode of operation is hydraulic...
    Hey, some of us are old school cable operated.
    Does anybody remember that picture of the US Marines erecting a flagpole?

    :neutral:
    The inside story of the famous Iwo Jima photo:

    https://edition.cnn.com/2015/02/22/world/cnnphotos-iwo-jima/index.html
  • Off topic, but GMP have released a statement confirming the knife attacker has been charged with a terrorism offence.

    He was confronted and pursued by two unarmed PCSOs, until backup arrived. Brave people, but demonstrates how stretched our public services are.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    nichomar said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    nichomar said:
    Dicking around for another 6 months with the chance it goes wrong.

    Get on with it..
    Only because that’s what you want
    Any new deal could itself contain a clause effectively saying this is the full and final offer. No extension beyond 31/10 save for implementing the deal and the deal must be ratified before 31/10. If I were Boris I that’s what I would do.
    That’s because that is what you want, wait and see
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    EU may be very reluctant to offer an extension if a deal is agreed. Certainly not a long one. To do what? There will be no new offers of deals.

    A Referendum
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,865
    stodge said:

    DavidL said:

    Btw and completely o/t all credit to the Dundee Courier and Advertiser who have this week run a front page story about the government increasing the Public Services Work Board interest rate by 1% when gilt rates have fallen to their lowest for several hundred years. God knows what percentage of their readers will have the faintest clue what they are talking about but this is a genuinely important story.

    Boris has been saying that the government should use low gilts to fund infrastructure spending. He’s right but the Treasury action is completely inconsistent with such a policy and seems designed to discourage capital spending by local authorities. What the hell is going on?

    Yes this is an interesting thing. A number of councils have used borrowing from the PWLB to fund investment property acquisitions (the likes of shopping centres, office blocks, hotels).

    As a source of funding, PWLB has been hugely useful and in the aftermath of the recession only councils and pension funds were still active in the commercial property market - there were some good investment deals to be had at that time and these provided a useful income stream to local authorities which central Government spending wouldn't affect.

    Now, that ship has sailed and when you see small district and borough councils borrowing hundreds of millions to get into the investment property game but the bargains have long gone.

    Instead, there is a growing disquiet about whether it is wholly appropriate for public money to be used in this way and many councils have halted investment acquisitions pending a review as to whether they are politically acceptable.
    Whilst that is true the same source is used to fund new schools, local roads projects, social housing etc. Are any of these things that the government wants to slow down as we slither along the edge of a technical recession? I think not.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    There a whole mine of word play about trans fats that you could do jokes about.

    Instead, there is no joke. Just an implied criticism of a company choosing not to give money to another company.

    That's not a joke.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited October 2019
    I could go with a "confirmatory referendum" that is genuinely just that.

    DO YOU SUPPORT THE DEAL THE GOVERNMENT HAS NEGOTIATED TO ALLOW THE UK TO LEAVE THE EUROPEAN UNION?

    YES

    NO

    Though what the **** we'd do if people voted NO I don't know. Guess it would have to be made clear NO = NO DEAL.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    TGOHF2 said:

    nichomar said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    nichomar said:
    Dicking around for another 6 months with the chance it goes wrong.

    Get on with it..
    Only because that’s what you want
    Only those that want to remain want a referendum.

    Nothing wrong with that
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    nichomar said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    nichomar said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    nichomar said:
    Dicking around for another 6 months with the chance it goes wrong.

    Get on with it..
    Only because that’s what you want
    Only those that want to remain want a referendum.

    Nothing wrong with that
    That’s because that is what you want.
  • Alistair said:

    isam said:
    What's the joke here? I don't understand the joke. The libertarian running the parody account is criticising a company's right to free association?

    Does he think Flora should be forced to advertise on Mumsnet?

    WHAT'S THE JOKE
    The Right Is Starting to Get Better at Comedy.

    Apparently.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Off topic, but GMP have released a statement confirming the knife attacker has been charged with a terrorism offence.

    He was confronted and pursued by two unarmed PCSOs, until backup arrived. Brave people, but demonstrates how stretched our public services are.

    Police can't be everywhere - and lets not forget police were called in from across the country to deal with those eco loons.

    But bravo to the 2 PCSO's
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,900



    "... a long time ago" .... I thought it was in 2015.

    As pointed out acutely by another_richard, Clegg & Cameron & Co said "we were all in it together". That was a justification for austerity, we were all in it together.

    We're not all in it together.

    I object to Jane Dodds because of her derisory comments about the people of Montgomeryshire who opposed wind farms in the constituency.

    I object to the LibDems in mid-Wales because they have a long history of parachuting in people with no connection to Wales as MPs (Lembit Opik and the now no-longer a LibDem Alex Carlile or Lord Carlile of Berriew).

    Austerity (if it ever really happened and some on here consistently say it hasn't) is also dead and some of those who were its most enthusiastic supporters in 2010 are now the ones arguing for huge spending splurges.

    Does it really matter if a representative or MP has a connection to a constituency? Seriously? My MP was born in Oldham yet he represents an east London constituency. The ambitious politician goes where he or she can and seeks to build a local relationship.

    I'd also argue the remit of any MP has by definition to be more than the boundary of their constituency - they are part of the legislative body for the whole United Kingdom. It's possibly disadvantageous to be too parochial./
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    DavidL said:

    Btw and completely o/t all credit to the Dundee Courier and Advertiser who have this week run a front page story about the government increasing the Public Services Work Board interest rate by 1% when gilt rates have fallen to their lowest for several hundred years. God knows what percentage of their readers will have the faintest clue what they are talking about but this is a genuinely important story.

    Boris has been saying that the government should use low gilts to fund infrastructure spending. He’s right but the Treasury action is completely inconsistent with such a policy and seems designed to discourage capital spending by local authorities. What the hell is going on?

    My guess is that this is a centralising move. Up the interest rate for local councils wanting to invest off their own initiative and then you can disburse grants for investment from central government, potentially targeted to marginal constituencies high-priority areas, but in any case allowing central government to claim the political credit for investment (while still trying to offload the blame for cuts in local services onto local councils after cutting their funding).
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    GIN1138 said:

    I could go with a "confirmatory referendum" that is genuinely just that.

    DO YOU SUPPORT THE DEAL THE GOVERNMENT HAS NEGOTIATED TO ALLOW THE UK TO LEAVE THE EUROPEAN UNION?

    YES

    NO

    Though what the **** we'd do if people voted NO I don't know. Guess it would have to be made clear NO = NO DEAL.

    And if it’s no then remain want to have best of 5...
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    EU may be very reluctant to offer an extension if a deal is agreed. Certainly not a long one. To do what? There will be no new offers of deals.

    Though you may not want it yourself, I think the EU would allow a 6 month extension to run a confirmatory referendum on any agreed deal.
    And the British team will make it clear this would be problematic for them. If the EU want the deal, they will be happy to discourage delay. They want this done.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    Off topic, but GMP have released a statement confirming the knife attacker has been charged with a terrorism offence.

    He was confronted and pursued by two unarmed PCSOs, until backup arrived. Brave people, but demonstrates how stretched our public services are.

    It's terrible, I occasionally go shopping in that shopping centre. Mind you I have seen Police with machine guns in the Bluewater shopping centre! Never seen police with machine guns in the Arndale!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,865
    Floater said:

    Off topic, but GMP have released a statement confirming the knife attacker has been charged with a terrorism offence.

    He was confronted and pursued by two unarmed PCSOs, until backup arrived. Brave people, but demonstrates how stretched our public services are.


    But bravo to the 2 PCSO's
    Absolutely. Heroes.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    O/T

    at least ONE England team knows how to stuff the Ozzies…

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/disability-sport/50018959
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    There’s no chance of a second vote getting a majority .

    The media need to stop indulging this fantasy . This is Labour trying to show their Remain credentials before the deal passes.

  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    TGOHF2 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    I could go with a "confirmatory referendum" that is genuinely just that.

    DO YOU SUPPORT THE DEAL THE GOVERNMENT HAS NEGOTIATED TO ALLOW THE UK TO LEAVE THE EUROPEAN UNION?

    YES

    NO

    Though what the **** we'd do if people voted NO I don't know. Guess it would have to be made clear NO = NO DEAL.

    And if it’s no then remain want to have best of 5...
    "TO allow the UK to leave" is a biased question
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    nichomar said:

    ITV coverage of football is absolutely shit.

    I thought the football was shit but it could be ITVs fault
    The football is shit and the punditry is even worse. Keane, Wright and Dixon provide bugger all insight into how England should adjust, its all jokey buddy buddy when we played stuff.

    Reminds me of the cricket commentators
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,504

    nico67 said:

    Michel Barnier comes out with huge credit .

    Class personified. It’s incredibly difficult to have not made a huge gaff in 3 years , when you think of how many news conferences he’s done and the fact he had to put up with Davis and Raab .

    Barnier is a class act.
    Honestly, if you Remainacs love the EU so much there's still time to fuck off there and live freely before 31st Oct
    PB has the most robust debate but that's just vulgar abuse and completely out of order. I'd suggest you apologise.
    Nah, I've said it before on here. Think of it like a catchphrase.
    I’d quite like to be ethnically cleansed by the likes of you. We’d get ‘ghettos’ in London, Edinburgh, the Chiltern Hills and the Cotswolds.

    You’d get Hartlepool and Sunderland.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Off topic, but GMP have released a statement confirming the knife attacker has been charged with a terrorism offence.

    He was confronted and pursued by two unarmed PCSOs, until backup arrived. Brave people, but demonstrates how stretched our public services are.

    Does it. The Police can never be everywhere at any time, unless you want to pay double your council tax and more....
  • Floater said:

    Off topic, but GMP have released a statement confirming the knife attacker has been charged with a terrorism offence.

    He was confronted and pursued by two unarmed PCSOs, until backup arrived. Brave people, but demonstrates how stretched our public services are.

    Police can't be everywhere - and lets not forget police were called in from across the country to deal with those eco loons.

    But bravo to the 2 PCSO's
    This is the main shopping centre in central Manchester, directly opposite the Arena.

    I'd expect it to be fairly well protected, as if you want to commit this type of attack, it is one of the few places in central Manchester where people are in a relatively confined space.

    The fact that police are off dealing with Tarquin and Rainbow blockading the BBC in Salford shouldn't mean that the public aren't adequately protected from acts of terrorism.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,865

    DavidL said:

    Btw and completely o/t all credit to the Dundee Courier and Advertiser who have this week run a front page story about the government increasing the Public Services Work Board interest rate by 1% when gilt rates have fallen to their lowest for several hundred years. God knows what percentage of their readers will have the faintest clue what they are talking about but this is a genuinely important story.

    Boris has been saying that the government should use low gilts to fund infrastructure spending. He’s right but the Treasury action is completely inconsistent with such a policy and seems designed to discourage capital spending by local authorities. What the hell is going on?

    My guess is that this is a centralising move. Up the interest rate for local councils wanting to invest off their own initiative and then you can disburse grants for investment from central government, potentially targeted to marginal constituencies high-priority areas, but in any case allowing central government to claim the political credit for investment (while still trying to offload the blame for cuts in local services onto local councils after cutting their funding).
    That’s very cynical so it’s probably true but the bulk of “spade ready” projects are local and they are far more likely to meet a genuine need. It’s incoherent but I’m not sure we can expect anything else. As I said at the start all credit to a local paper picking up on an issue our national press seems to have missed.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,504

    This is piss poor from england so far.

    We looked awful, slight improvement since half time.
  • viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    TGOHF2 said:
    Dick Spring? He hasn't been Tánaiste in years.
    I fear that a number of PBers have been lacking Dick Spring for even longer...
    Though for most of use the normal mode of operation is hydraulic...
    Hey, some of us are old school cable operated.
    Does anybody remember that picture of the US Marines erecting a flagpole?

    :neutral:
    I'm not entirely happy that that was a fake and five hairy men were involved..
  • nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    ITV coverage of football is absolutely shit.

    I thought the football was shit but it could be ITVs fault
    The football is shit and the punditry is even worse. Keane, Wright and Dixon provide bugger all insight into how England should adjust, its all jokey buddy buddy when we played stuff.

    Reminds me of the cricket commentators
    Sky are thankfully starting to clear them out.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,236
    GIN1138 said:

    I could go with a "confirmatory referendum" that is genuinely just that.

    DO YOU SUPPORT THE DEAL THE GOVERNMENT HAS NEGOTIATED TO ALLOW THE UK TO LEAVE THE EUROPEAN UNION?

    YES

    NO

    Though what the **** we'd do if people voted NO I don't know. Guess it would have to be made clear NO = NO DEAL.

    Do we need two options on the ballot paper, or will just one do?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Off topic, but GMP have released a statement confirming the knife attacker has been charged with a terrorism offence.

    He was confronted and pursued by two unarmed PCSOs, until backup arrived. Brave people, but demonstrates how stretched our public services are.

    It's terrible, I occasionally go shopping in that shopping centre. Mind you I have seen Police with machine guns in the Bluewater shopping centre! Never seen police with machine guns in the Arndale!
    My daughter was there but was totally unaware of what had happened until she got back to the office. Having been evacuated in a controlled manner.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    ITV coverage of football is absolutely shit.

    I thought the football was shit but it could be ITVs fault
    The football is shit and the punditry is even worse. Keane, Wright and Dixon provide bugger all insight into how England should adjust, its all jokey buddy buddy when we played stuff.

    Reminds me of the cricket commentators
    Sky are thankfully starting to clear them out.
    Not a fan of Gower and Botham?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,504
    GIN1138 said:

    I could go with a "confirmatory referendum" that is genuinely just that.

    DO YOU SUPPORT THE DEAL THE GOVERNMENT HAS NEGOTIATED TO ALLOW THE UK TO LEAVE THE EUROPEAN UNION?

    YES

    NO

    Though what the **** we'd do if people voted NO I don't know. Guess it would have to be made clear NO = NO DEAL.

    Agreed. Boris vs Remain would be a decent option. Neither outcome is a disaster. No unicorns. Fair enough.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    stodge said:



    "... a long time ago" .... I thought it was in 2015.

    As pointed out acutely by another_richard, Clegg & Cameron & Co said "we were all in it together". That was a justification for austerity, we were all in it together.

    We're not all in it together.

    I object to Jane Dodds because of her derisory comments about the people of Montgomeryshire who opposed wind farms in the constituency.

    I object to the LibDems in mid-Wales because they have a long history of parachuting in people with no connection to Wales as MPs (Lembit Opik and the now no-longer a LibDem Alex Carlile or Lord Carlile of Berriew).

    Austerity (if it ever really happened and some on here consistently say it hasn't) is also dead and some of those who were its most enthusiastic supporters in 2010 are now the ones arguing for huge spending splurges.

    Does it really matter if a representative or MP has a connection to a constituency? Seriously? My MP was born in Oldham yet he represents an east London constituency. The ambitious politician goes where he or she can and seeks to build a local relationship.

    I'd also argue the remit of any MP has by definition to be more than the boundary of their constituency - they are part of the legislative body for the whole United Kingdom. It's possibly disadvantageous to be too parochial./
    I don't think the Scots would elect MPs to represent Scotland if they did not have a connection to Scotland. Rightly so.

    I don't think the Welsh should elect MPs to represent Wales if they have no connection to Wales. They don't have to be Welsh, but they do have to have lived in the constituency and understood the difficulties of e.g., rural Wales. So that they can fight for Wales with some conviction.

    Timms was a Councillor and lived in East London for at least a decade before becoming an MP for East Ham. I have no problem with that. He was local when he was chosen as an MP. And a decade .. that is an eternity in Stodge-speak .. because Nick Clegg was DPM "a long time ago".

    What was Lembit Opik's connection with Montgomeryshire before the LibDems parachuted him in?
  • AndyJS said:

    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    ITV coverage of football is absolutely shit.

    I thought the football was shit but it could be ITVs fault
    The football is shit and the punditry is even worse. Keane, Wright and Dixon provide bugger all insight into how England should adjust, its all jokey buddy buddy when we played stuff.

    Reminds me of the cricket commentators
    Sky are thankfully starting to clear them out.
    Not a fan of Gower and Botham?
    Bumble and Holding can go as well as far as i am concerned.
This discussion has been closed.