Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The impeachment polling’s getting worse for Trump

245

Comments

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Byronic said:

    Question: how many people on here want Boris to fail?

    I’m guessing hardcore Corbynites, who don’t care about Brexit. Any others? Any ultra Remainers who still prefer Remain, even at the risk of No Deal? Or maybe some BXPers?

    I will laugh my head off if Boris Johnson fails spectacularly and looks a fool, unless it means that Nazi apologist Corbyn gets in in which case I shall despair.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    Question: how many people on here want Boris to fail?

    I’m guessing hardcore Corbynites, who don’t care about Brexit. Any others? Any ultra Remainers who still prefer Remain, even at the risk of No Deal? Or maybe some BXPers?

    I will laugh my head off if Boris Johnson fails spectacularly and looks a fool, unless it means that Nazi apologist Corbyn gets in in which case I shall despair.
    Not quite an answer. Do you WANT him to fail?
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Cyclefree said:

    Anorak said:

    Cyclefree said:

    On the far more interesting subject of vacuum cleaners, I had a GTech as well: a main one and a handheld one. Both broke down. Rubbish. As did my Bosch handheld.

    The old upright Panasonic was the best. My Henry was pretty good for years but it too broke down. I've had a Miele which now needs repair.

    Basically there is little point spending any money on all these fancy bits of equipment, including kettles or toasters, because they all break down after a bit. Trying to find a repair shop is a bit of an endeavour. If we want to stop filling the land or the oceans with rubbish, reinstating the concept of repair shops / services would be a start. As well as building things that last.

    I have recently taken to using a sharp handheld brush on my carpeted stairs. Works just as well and gives my arms a workout at the same time.

    Anyway that's enough household tips for now.

    Has bloody Brexit finally been solved? Or are we being led to the top of the hill by the Duke of York only to be led straight down again?

    You clearly have a reasonable job. Might I suggest enjoying life a little more and hiring a cleaner.
    I am a freelancer so never know what money is coming in. No point wasting it on extravagances like a cleaner. I spent enough on household help when the children were small and it was needed. Now they can clean their own rooms and after themselves.

    Anyway, I like doing my own cleaning or getting my children to do it. One of them is going all Marie Kondo on me with the kitchen tea towels. And I enjoy life fine. I just hate the idea of buying stuff which breaks down and has to be thrown away.

    You are talking to possibly the last woman in London who has repeatedly had her video recorder repaired and still has it, attached to a TV, waiting for the time when I will have the time to watch all those videos I patiently recorded over the years. :)
    You have a betamax, don't you.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Cyclefree said:

    Anorak said:

    Cyclefree said:

    On the far more interesting subject of vacuum cleaners, I had a GTech as well: a main one and a handheld one. Both broke down. Rubbish. As did my Bosch handheld.

    The old upright Panasonic was the best. My Henry was pretty good for years but it too broke down. I've had a Miele which now needs repair.

    Basically there is little point spending any money on all these fancy bits of equipment, including kettles or toasters, because they all break down after a bit. Trying to find a repair shop is a bit of an endeavour. If we want to stop filling the land or the oceans with rubbish, reinstating the concept of repair shops / services would be a start. As well as building things that last.

    I have recently taken to using a sharp handheld brush on my carpeted stairs. Works just as well and gives my arms a workout at the same time.

    Anyway that's enough household tips for now.

    Has bloody Brexit finally been solved? Or are we being led to the top of the hill by the Duke of York only to be led straight down again?

    You clearly have a reasonable job. Might I suggest enjoying life a little more and hiring a cleaner.
    I am a freelancer so never know what money is coming in. No point wasting it on extravagances like a cleaner. I spent enough on household help when the children were small and it was needed. Now they can clean their own rooms and after themselves.

    Anyway, I like doing my own cleaning or getting my children to do it. One of them is going all Marie Kondo on me with the kitchen tea towels. And I enjoy life fine. I just hate the idea of buying stuff which breaks down and has to be thrown away.

    You are talking to possibly the last woman in London who has repeatedly had her video recorder repaired and still has it, attached to a TV, waiting for the time when I will have the time to watch all those videos I patiently recorded over the years. :)
    Betamax or Phillips 2000?
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    rcs1000 said:

    Meanwhile Hillary Clinton was last traded at 14.5 for the Democratic nomination.

    That's the smart money going on her, right?
    Now been matched at 11.5!

    Imagine if she was the Dem nominee in 2020 but didn't face Trump. Now that would be bizarre.

    Strongly suspect (and deep bets on) the opposite happening though. No Hillary, but Trump as nominee.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Byronic said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    Question: how many people on here want Boris to fail?

    I’m guessing hardcore Corbynites, who don’t care about Brexit. Any others? Any ultra Remainers who still prefer Remain, even at the risk of No Deal? Or maybe some BXPers?

    I will laugh my head off if Boris Johnson fails spectacularly and looks a fool, unless it means that Nazi apologist Corbyn gets in in which case I shall despair.
    Not quite an answer. Do you WANT him to fail?
    Yes, because what he's trying to do at this moment is irresponsible, dangerous and will at best be highly divisive and damaging if he succeeds.

    But I don't want a government led by monsters like Corbyn and Macdonnell to be the price of that failure.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Quincel said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Meanwhile Hillary Clinton was last traded at 14.5 for the Democratic nomination.

    That's the smart money going on her, right?
    Now been matched at 11.5!

    Imagine if she was the Dem nominee in 2020 but didn't face Trump. Now that would be bizarre.

    Strongly suspect (and deep bets on) the opposite happening though. No Hillary, but Trump as nominee.
    She can't beat Obama.

    She can't beat Trump.

    Who can she actually beat?
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    Toaster anecdote...

    When I bought all of the kitchen appliances when me and Wor Lass set up home they threw in a kettle and toaster for free. 25 years later the toaster was still going strong, and when we sold our flat the buyer asked us to leave it as part of the deal, which we did.

    I should have asked for an extra twenty quid!

    Dualit toasters are great and can be repaired. They seem to have realised that a pop-up spring is a counterproductive mechanism in a toaster (toast goes cold quicker when popped up) and just makes them far more fragile. A solid lever is what you want!
    I had my Dualit's mechancial timer jam twice. Once it was on for 4 hours, and all the food in the cupboard above got too hot to touch (including the cooking oils!).

    Second time it happened - after I thought I'd fixed it - it went straight in the bin.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    edited October 2019
    ydoethur said:

    nichomar said:

    Toaster anecdote...

    When I bought all of the kitchen appliances when me and Wor Lass set up home they threw in a kettle and toaster for free. 25 years later the toaster was still going strong, and when we sold our flat the buyer asked us to leave it as part of the deal, which we did.

    I should have asked for an extra twenty quid!

    Dualit toasters are great and can be repaired. They seem to have realised that a pop-up spring is a counterproductive mechanism in a toaster (toast goes cold quicker when popped up) and just makes them far more fragile. A solid lever is what you want!
    Well that’s open to misinterpretation
    I don't think anyone doubts Boris has a solid lever, even if there is some speculation he's a less than solid Leaver.
    Bozo saw a sign saying 'Pull Lever'

    So he proposition Andrea Leadsom.

    (My coat is upstairs)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    ydoethur said:

    nichomar said:

    Toaster anecdote...

    When I bought all of the kitchen appliances when me and Wor Lass set up home they threw in a kettle and toaster for free. 25 years later the toaster was still going strong, and when we sold our flat the buyer asked us to leave it as part of the deal, which we did.

    I should have asked for an extra twenty quid!

    Dualit toasters are great and can be repaired. They seem to have realised that a pop-up spring is a counterproductive mechanism in a toaster (toast goes cold quicker when popped up) and just makes them far more fragile. A solid lever is what you want!
    Well that’s open to misinterpretation
    I don't think anyone doubts Boris has a solid lever, even if there is some speculation he's a less than solid Leaver.
    Bozo saw a sign saying 'Pull Lever

    So he proposition Andrea Leadsom.

    (My coat is upstairs)
    Is it in your spare womb?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Byronic said:

    Question: how many people on here want Boris to fail?

    I’m guessing hardcore Corbynites, who don’t care about Brexit. Any others? Any ultra Remainers who still prefer Remain, even at the risk of No Deal? Or maybe some BXPers?

    I want Johnson to be destroyed never to rise from the ashes he represents everything that is wrong with politics and must not be rewarded. If we can take him and farage down that would be a result.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    Byronic said:

    Question: how many people on here want Boris to fail?

    I’m guessing hardcore Corbynites, who don’t care about Brexit. Any others? Any ultra Remainers who still prefer Remain, even at the risk of No Deal? Or maybe some BXPers?

    I would happily see Boris fail.

    Brexit too for that matter (though I would accept EEA)
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    edited October 2019
    Byronic said:

    Question: how many people on here want Boris to fail?

    I’m guessing hardcore Corbynites, who don’t care about Brexit. Any others? Any ultra Remainers who still prefer Remain, even at the risk of No Deal? Or maybe some BXPers?

    I don't care about Boris. But as someone who, if given the option now would vote to Remain, I do hope that we leave with a reasonable deal and can try to put the relationship with the EU on a better footing. There is a very great deal to be repaired.

    I am not hopeful on the latter point. If Brexit is simply seen as something to be got over the line and then moved on from then we will lose the opportunity to think intelligently about what our relationship with the European Continent should be and how it can work to the advantage of both. There is far too little thinking about long-term strategy in Britain's political class.

    PS I don't want to leave. But since we have to I don't want to do so without a deal.

    Personally, I would like never to hear of Boris or Corbyn or Farage or Banks or Raab or Patel or Rees-Mogg or McDonnell or pretty much the entire Labour and Tory front benches ever again.
  • This is like waiting for a new pope. Not that the DUP would appreciate that analogy. Maybe the smoke will come from a RHI funded wood pellet burner ?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,236
    Byronic said:

    On topic, Donald Trump is alienating part of his coalition over Syria. He needs it to hold firm to stay safe.

    Trump has even lost the evangelicals - because they are loyal to the Syrian Christians now being attacked by the Islamist Turk.

    This repulsive betrayal corrodes Trump’s base in a very unique way. It could finish him. Let’s hope so.
    Backing Erdogan over our allies the Kurds was an extraordinary decision, seeming lacking any kind of understanding of the consequences.

    My gut is that Trump doesn't really care about the Kurds, and someone he respects (Erdogan) asked him for a personal favour, and Trump likes giving personal favours and people being obligated to him, so he went for it.

    As in, in a phone call, he said "yeah, go for it".

    Which is why, of course, Presidents and the like have advisors.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Anorak said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anorak said:

    Cyclefree said:

    On the far more interesting subject of vacuum cleaners, I had a GTech as well: a main one and a handheld one. Both broke down. Rubbish. As did my Bosch handheld.

    The old upright Panasonic was the best. My Henry was pretty good for years but it too broke down. I've had a Miele which now needs repair.

    Basically there is little point spending any money on all these fancy bits of equipment, including kettles or toasters, because they all break down after a bit. Trying to find a repair shop is a bit of an endeavour. If we want to stop filling the land or the oceans with rubbish, reinstating the concept of repair shops / services would be a start. As well as building things that last.

    I have recently taken to using a sharp handheld brush on my carpeted stairs. Works just as well and gives my arms a workout at the same time.

    Anyway that's enough household tips for now.

    Has bloody Brexit finally been solved? Or are we being led to the top of the hill by the Duke of York only to be led straight down again?

    You clearly have a reasonable job. Might I suggest enjoying life a little more and hiring a cleaner.
    I am a freelancer so never know what money is coming in. No point wasting it on extravagances like a cleaner. I spent enough on household help when the children were small and it was needed. Now they can clean their own rooms and after themselves.

    Anyway, I like doing my own cleaning or getting my children to do it. One of them is going all Marie Kondo on me with the kitchen tea towels. And I enjoy life fine. I just hate the idea of buying stuff which breaks down and has to be thrown away.

    You are talking to possibly the last woman in London who has repeatedly had her video recorder repaired and still has it, attached to a TV, waiting for the time when I will have the time to watch all those videos I patiently recorded over the years. :)
    You have a betamax, don't you.
    No. :)
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    Question: how many people on here want Boris to fail?

    I’m guessing hardcore Corbynites, who don’t care about Brexit. Any others? Any ultra Remainers who still prefer Remain, even at the risk of No Deal? Or maybe some BXPers?

    I will laugh my head off if Boris Johnson fails spectacularly and looks a fool, unless it means that Nazi apologist Corbyn gets in in which case I shall despair.
    Not quite an answer. Do you WANT him to fail?
    Yes, because what he's trying to do at this moment is irresponsible, dangerous and will at best be highly divisive and damaging if he succeeds.

    But I don't want a government led by monsters like Corbyn and Macdonnell to be the price of that failure.
    Still not an answer. Yes or no.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Cyclefree said:

    Byronic said:

    Question: how many people on here want Boris to fail?

    I’m guessing hardcore Corbynites, who don’t care about Brexit. Any others? Any ultra Remainers who still prefer Remain, even at the risk of No Deal? Or maybe some BXPers?

    I don't care about Boris. But as someone who, if given the option now would vote to Remain, I do hope that we leave with a reasonable deal and can try to put the relationship with the EU on a better footing. There is a very great deal to be repaired.

    I am not hopeful on the latter point. If Brexit is simply seen as something to be got over the line and then moved on from then we will lose the opportunity to think intelligently about what our relationship with the European Continent should be and how it can work to the advantage of both. There is far too little thinking about long-term strategy in Britain's political class.
    That’s quite close to where I am. Ta.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    Our Shark kicks our old Dyson's ass in my experience. Our even older Henry was pretty good but I have appropriated that to sook rusty detritus out of bike petrol tanks (still to break this news to partner).

    I never owned a Dyson. I did have an electrolux which lasted 20 years. Nothing sucks like an Electrolux :D (2nd worst advertising campaign ever. For vacuums that is)
  • houndtanghoundtang Posts: 450
    ydoethur said:

    Quincel said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Meanwhile Hillary Clinton was last traded at 14.5 for the Democratic nomination.

    That's the smart money going on her, right?
    Now been matched at 11.5!

    Imagine if she was the Dem nominee in 2020 but didn't face Trump. Now that would be bizarre.

    Strongly suspect (and deep bets on) the opposite happening though. No Hillary, but Trump as nominee.
    She can't beat Obama.

    She can't beat Trump.

    Who can she actually beat?
    Rick Lazio
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,236

    Toaster anecdote...

    When I bought all of the kitchen appliances when me and Wor Lass set up home they threw in a kettle and toaster for free. 25 years later the toaster was still going strong, and when we sold our flat the buyer asked us to leave it as part of the deal, which we did.

    I should have asked for an extra twenty quid!

    Dualit toasters are great and can be repaired. They seem to have realised that a pop-up spring is a counterproductive mechanism in a toaster (toast goes cold quicker when popped up) and just makes them far more fragile. A solid lever is what you want!
    My Dualit is excellent.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Has it fallen apart yet?
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    rcs1000 said:

    Byronic said:

    On topic, Donald Trump is alienating part of his coalition over Syria. He needs it to hold firm to stay safe.

    Trump has even lost the evangelicals - because they are loyal to the Syrian Christians now being attacked by the Islamist Turk.

    This repulsive betrayal corrodes Trump’s base in a very unique way. It could finish him. Let’s hope so.
    Backing Erdogan over our allies the Kurds was an extraordinary decision, seeming lacking any kind of understanding of the consequences.

    My gut is that Trump doesn't really care about the Kurds, and someone he respects (Erdogan) asked him for a personal favour, and Trump likes giving personal favours and people being obligated to him, so he went for it.

    As in, in a phone call, he said "yeah, go for it".

    Which is why, of course, Presidents and the like have advisors.
    I question whether he even understands what a Kurd IS.

    The more I watch Trump, the more convinced I become: that he has some major and worsening cognitive deficit. Possibly early Alzheimer’s?
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Byronic said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    Question: how many people on here want Boris to fail?

    I’m guessing hardcore Corbynites, who don’t care about Brexit. Any others? Any ultra Remainers who still prefer Remain, even at the risk of No Deal? Or maybe some BXPers?

    I will laugh my head off if Boris Johnson fails spectacularly and looks a fool, unless it means that Nazi apologist Corbyn gets in in which case I shall despair.
    Not quite an answer. Do you WANT him to fail?
    Yes, because what he's trying to do at this moment is irresponsible, dangerous and will at best be highly divisive and damaging if he succeeds.

    But I don't want a government led by monsters like Corbyn and Macdonnell to be the price of that failure.
    Still not an answer. Yes or no.
    As a remainiac I want Boris to succeed in getting a deal, and then to be defenestrated from the top of the newly repaired Elizabeth Tower straight into the Thames. If I'm really lucky, Nigel Farage will be on another boating trip at the time.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    rcs1000 said:

    Toaster anecdote...

    When I bought all of the kitchen appliances when me and Wor Lass set up home they threw in a kettle and toaster for free. 25 years later the toaster was still going strong, and when we sold our flat the buyer asked us to leave it as part of the deal, which we did.

    I should have asked for an extra twenty quid!

    Dualit toasters are great and can be repaired. They seem to have realised that a pop-up spring is a counterproductive mechanism in a toaster (toast goes cold quicker when popped up) and just makes them far more fragile. A solid lever is what you want!
    My Dualit is excellent.
    I could never live with an upmarket toaster with such a silly name as Dualit.

    I'm sticking with my Smeg.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    rcs1000 said:


    Not only that but don't forget that the RNC has severely limited the Primary process in 2020. Picking someone other than the President will be tough.

    Do you mean "picking someone other than the President will be tough"? Or do you mean "picking someone other than Trump will be tough". I don't know the details of how some states have closed their primaries, but I assume there will still be a Republican Convention and the states which have closed the primaries will be sending pro Trump delegates.

    If Trump is out of the running by the time of the convention the key question, is who will all those Trump delegates be nominating? Will they really be wanting to nominate Pence?

    These are genuine Questions, you know much more about the American scene than I do.


  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Byronic said:

    Question: how many people on here want Boris to fail?

    I’m guessing hardcore Corbynites, who don’t care about Brexit. Any others? Any ultra Remainers who still prefer Remain, even at the risk of No Deal? Or maybe some BXPers?

    I would happily see Boris fail.

    Brexit too for that matter (though I would accept EEA)
    To me this seems deeply irresponsible. If Boris doesn’t pass a deal we are headed for years, maybe decades of new sectarian politics, envenomed by nationalism, and possibly violent.

    The ultra Remainers are as blameworthy as the ultra Leavers.
  • houndtanghoundtang Posts: 450
    DougSeal said:

    Maybe we should call a moratorium on commenting on today’s developments on the Wirral until we know what they are? I suspect that Johnson has blagged this by “promising” Leo something far more ambiguous than Leo realises - but I’ve been wrong before.

    I wonder if he has given him a nod and wink about a United Ireland?
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    RobD said:

    Has it fallen apart yet?

    That is quite a personal question!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Byronic said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    Question: how many people on here want Boris to fail?

    I’m guessing hardcore Corbynites, who don’t care about Brexit. Any others? Any ultra Remainers who still prefer Remain, even at the risk of No Deal? Or maybe some BXPers?

    I will laugh my head off if Boris Johnson fails spectacularly and looks a fool, unless it means that Nazi apologist Corbyn gets in in which case I shall despair.
    Not quite an answer. Do you WANT him to fail?
    Yes, because what he's trying to do at this moment is irresponsible, dangerous and will at best be highly divisive and damaging if he succeeds.

    But I don't want a government led by monsters like Corbyn and Macdonnell to be the price of that failure.
    Still not an answer. Yes or no.
    Yes, because what he's trying to do at this moment is irresponsible, dangerous and will at best be highly divisive and damaging if he succeeds.

    Which part of 'yes' did you not get?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    ydoethur said:

    Quincel said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Meanwhile Hillary Clinton was last traded at 14.5 for the Democratic nomination.

    That's the smart money going on her, right?
    Now been matched at 11.5!

    Imagine if she was the Dem nominee in 2020 but didn't face Trump. Now that would be bizarre.

    Strongly suspect (and deep bets on) the opposite happening though. No Hillary, but Trump as nominee.
    She can't beat Obama.

    She can't beat Trump.

    Who can she actually beat?
    Her husband (allegedly)
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    houndtang said:

    DougSeal said:

    Maybe we should call a moratorium on commenting on today’s developments on the Wirral until we know what they are? I suspect that Johnson has blagged this by “promising” Leo something far more ambiguous than Leo realises - but I’ve been wrong before.

    I wonder if he has given him a nod and wink about a United Ireland?</
    .
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    Question: how many people on here want Boris to fail?

    I’m guessing hardcore Corbynites, who don’t care about Brexit. Any others? Any ultra Remainers who still prefer Remain, even at the risk of No Deal? Or maybe some BXPers?

    I will laugh my head off if Boris Johnson fails spectacularly and looks a fool, unless it means that Nazi apologist Corbyn gets in in which case I shall despair.
    Not quite an answer. Do you WANT him to fail?
    Yes, because what he's trying to do at this moment is irresponsible, dangerous and will at best be highly divisive and damaging if he succeeds.

    But I don't want a government led by monsters like Corbyn and Macdonnell to be the price of that failure.
    Still not an answer. Yes or no.
    Yes, because what he's trying to do at this moment is irresponsible, dangerous and will at best be highly divisive and damaging if he succeeds.

    Which part of 'yes' did you not get?
    The bit where you heavily qualified it with “but, Corbyn”

    Your position is insane. You would imperil the country because of your extreme Remainerism.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    ydoethur said:

    Quincel said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Meanwhile Hillary Clinton was last traded at 14.5 for the Democratic nomination.

    That's the smart money going on her, right?
    Now been matched at 11.5!

    Imagine if she was the Dem nominee in 2020 but didn't face Trump. Now that would be bizarre.

    Strongly suspect (and deep bets on) the opposite happening though. No Hillary, but Trump as nominee.
    She can't beat Obama.

    She can't beat Trump.

    Who can she actually beat?
    Bernie
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited October 2019
    I
    rcs1000 said:

    Byronic said:

    On topic, Donald Trump is alienating part of his coalition over Syria. He needs it to hold firm to stay safe.

    Trump has even lost the evangelicals - because they are loyal to the Syrian Christians now being attacked by the Islamist Turk.

    This repulsive betrayal corrodes Trump’s base in a very unique way. It could finish him. Let’s hope so.
    Backing Erdogan over our allies the Kurds was an extraordinary decision, seeming lacking any kind of understanding of the consequences.

    My gut is that Trump doesn't really care about the Kurds, and someone he respects (Erdogan) asked him for a personal favour, and Trump likes giving personal favours and people being obligated to him, so he went for it.

    As in, in a phone call, he said "yeah, go for it".

    Which is why, of course, Presidents and the like have advisors.
    Trump seems all too aware of the consequences but doesn't care. Which makes it worse in my book.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Ishmael_Z said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Toaster anecdote...

    When I bought all of the kitchen appliances when me and Wor Lass set up home they threw in a kettle and toaster for free. 25 years later the toaster was still going strong, and when we sold our flat the buyer asked us to leave it as part of the deal, which we did.

    I should have asked for an extra twenty quid!

    Dualit toasters are great and can be repaired. They seem to have realised that a pop-up spring is a counterproductive mechanism in a toaster (toast goes cold quicker when popped up) and just makes them far more fragile. A solid lever is what you want!
    My Dualit is excellent.
    I could never live with an upmarket toaster with such a silly name as Dualit.

    I'm sticking with my Smeg.
    Really?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Quincel said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Meanwhile Hillary Clinton was last traded at 14.5 for the Democratic nomination.

    That's the smart money going on her, right?
    Now been matched at 11.5!

    Imagine if she was the Dem nominee in 2020 but didn't face Trump. Now that would be bizarre.

    Strongly suspect (and deep bets on) the opposite happening though. No Hillary, but Trump as nominee.
    She can't beat Obama.

    She can't beat Trump.

    Who can she actually beat?
    Her husband (allegedly)
    Did she ever come clean about that?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited October 2019
    Byronic said:

    Question: how many people on here want Boris to fail?

    I’m guessing hardcore Corbynites, who don’t care about Brexit. Any others? Any ultra Remainers who still prefer Remain, even at the risk of No Deal? Or maybe some BXPers?

    I am confident Johnson will fail. Which, I accept, is an answer to a different question
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    edited October 2019
    Byronic said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    Question: how many people on here want Boris to fail?

    I’m guessing hardcore Corbynites, who don’t care about Brexit. Any others? Any ultra Remainers who still prefer Remain, even at the risk of No Deal? Or maybe some BXPers?

    I will laugh my head off if Boris Johnson fails spectacularly and looks a fool, unless it means that Nazi apologist Corbyn gets in in which case I shall despair.
    Not quite an answer. Do you WANT him to fail?
    Yes, because what he's trying to do at this moment is irresponsible, dangerous and will at best be highly divisive and damaging if he succeeds.

    But I don't want a government led by monsters like Corbyn and Macdonnell to be the price of that failure.
    Still not an answer. Yes or no.
    Yes, because what he's trying to do at this moment is irresponsible, dangerous and will at best be highly divisive and damaging if he succeeds.

    Which part of 'yes' did you not get?
    The bit where you heavily qualified it with “but, Corbyn”

    Your position is insane. You would imperil the country because of your extreme Remainerism.
    Er - right.

    Just to point out even though I voted Remain I consistently supported May's Deal and Remain a trenchant critic of the EU and its structures.

    And got further point out what Johnson and that addled pseudo-intellectual moron, liar, forger, cheat and failure Cummings are trying to do is leave with no deal. They say otherwise but I would more readily believe Vladimir Putin than Cummings.

    Which is not merely madness, but positively nihilistic.

    So yes, I hope they fail in that.

    But equally, Corbyn would be worse than no deal.

    I think you've had one too many tonight.
  • Byronic said:

    Question: how many people on here want Boris to fail?

    I’m guessing hardcore Corbynites, who don’t care about Brexit. Any others? Any ultra Remainers who still prefer Remain, even at the risk of No Deal? Or maybe some BXPers?

    I'd like to see a panel of Arlene Foster, Mark Francois and Nigel Farage pause then collectively turn their thumbs down. At which point Boris is torn apart by a group of feral Unicorns. Meanwhile at the other end of the stadium, Kanzlerin Merkel, dressed up as Helga Geerhart from ''Allo ''Allo , hysterically cries out " Ja ! Ja ! " while feeding herself grapes.
  • nico67 said:

    I think we’ll know by tomorrow afternoon if there’s a chance of a deal .

    That’s after Barnier and Barclay meet in the morning .

    Correct.
    Any remaining ambiguities must be replaced with a legal draft for an international treaty, subject to the Vienna Convention, to be examined and approved by the General Affairs Council on friday, to then be conveyed to the European Council next week.
    The time for dithering is finally up.
    Vienna Convention does not apply.

    Edit. I see RPJS below has already pointed this out.
    Thank you, Richard. I stand corrected. (ditto to rjps)
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    FF43 said:

    I

    rcs1000 said:

    Byronic said:

    On topic, Donald Trump is alienating part of his coalition over Syria. He needs it to hold firm to stay safe.

    Trump has even lost the evangelicals - because they are loyal to the Syrian Christians now being attacked by the Islamist Turk.

    This repulsive betrayal corrodes Trump’s base in a very unique way. It could finish him. Let’s hope so.
    Backing Erdogan over our allies the Kurds was an extraordinary decision, seeming lacking any kind of understanding of the consequences.

    My gut is that Trump doesn't really care about the Kurds, and someone he respects (Erdogan) asked him for a personal favour, and Trump likes giving personal favours and people being obligated to him, so he went for it.

    As in, in a phone call, he said "yeah, go for it".

    Which is why, of course, Presidents and the like have advisors.
    Trump seems all too aware of the consequences but doesn't care. Which makes it worse in my book.
    No, Trump doesn’t understand. He’s a toddler.

    On the actual process, Robert is surely right.

    Trump sees himself, in the low watt space that is his brain, as the great deal maker. He wrote the book about it. The art of the deal.

    So Erdogan went into deal making mode, and flattered Trump’s ego, and Trump thought he’d sold a skyscraper whereas in fact he’d sold his Kurdish allies down the river.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    Byronic said:

    Question: how many people on here want Boris to fail?

    I’m guessing hardcore Corbynites, who don’t care about Brexit. Any others? Any ultra Remainers who still prefer Remain, even at the risk of No Deal? Or maybe some BXPers?

    I'd like to see a panel of Arlene Foster, Mark Francois and Nigel Farage pause then collectively turn their thumbs down. At which point Boris is torn apart by a group of feral Unicorns. Meanwhile at the other end of the stadium, Kanzlerin Merkel, dressed up as Helga Geerhart from ''Allo ''Allo , hysterically cries out " Ja ! Ja ! " while feeding herself grapes.
    That's an art-house movie pitch if ever I've seen one.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    FF43 said:

    Byronic said:

    Question: how many people on here want Boris to fail?

    I’m guessing hardcore Corbynites, who don’t care about Brexit. Any others? Any ultra Remainers who still prefer Remain, even at the risk of No Deal? Or maybe some BXPers?

    I am confident Johnson will fail. Which, I accept, is an answer to a different question
    Yes, it is. So try again.
  • ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    Question: how many people on here want Boris to fail?

    I’m guessing hardcore Corbynites, who don’t care about Brexit. Any others? Any ultra Remainers who still prefer Remain, even at the risk of No Deal? Or maybe some BXPers?

    I will laugh my head off if Boris Johnson fails spectacularly and looks a fool, unless it means that Nazi apologist Corbyn gets in in which case I shall despair.
    Not quite an answer. Do you WANT him to fail?
    Yes, because what he's trying to do at this moment is irresponsible, dangerous and will at best be highly divisive and damaging if he succeeds.

    But I don't want a government led by monsters like Corbyn and Macdonnell to be the price of that failure.
    There's a couple of things going on here, I think.

    One is, yes, the Brexit Farago is freezing and poisoning the nation. We need a way of moving on.

    However.

    The relief that comes from getting a hard but just about tolerable Brexit across the line (May minus, if you like) might well be very short lived. There isn't the goodwill behind the project to get past any future potholes; all the polls show a small but significant majority who think this is not a good idea.

    On a personal level, there is something distasteful about BJ becoming the hero of Brexit. A bit like Howard Kirk in The History Man, it's hard to be grateful to a man who solves a problem he worked so hard to create. And most the rest of his personality makes him a good campaigning politcipol, but hopeless at government.

    So I hope the country finds a way forward, and if that has to be through Boris, so be it. VutI hope it doesn't do him any good.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    Question: how many people on here want Boris to fail?

    I’m guessing hardcore Corbynites, who don’t care about Brexit. Any others? Any ultra Remainers who still prefer Remain, even at the risk of No Deal? Or maybe some BXPers?

    I will laugh my head off if Boris Johnson fails spectacularly and looks a fool, unless it means that Nazi apologist Corbyn gets in in which case I shall despair.
    Not quite an answer. Do you WANT him to fail?
    Yes, because what he's trying to do at this moment is irresponsible, dangerous and will at best be highly divisive and damaging if he succeeds.

    But I don't want a government led by monsters like Corbyn and Macdonnell to be the price of that failure.
    Still not an answer. Yes or no.
    Yes, because what he's trying to do at this moment is irresponsible, dangerous and will at best be highly divisive and damaging if he succeeds.

    Which part of 'yes' did you not get?
    The bit where you heavily qualified it with “but, Corbyn”

    Your position is insane. You would imperil the country because of your extreme Remainerism.
    Er - right.

    Just to point out even though I voted Remain I consistently supported May's Deal and Remain a trenchant critic of the EU and its structures.

    And got further point out what Johnson and that addled pseudo-intellectual moron, liar, forger, cheat and failure Cummings are trying to do is leave with no deal. They say otherwise but I would more readily believe Vladimir Putin than Cummings.

    Which is not merely madness, but positively nihilistic.

    So yes, I hope they fail in that.

    But equally, Corbyn would be worse than no deal.

    I think you've had one too many tonight.
    Um, ok.

    Try and address the premise that Boris wants a deal, and is aiming to pass a deal. Would you support his efforts?
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Channel 4 News- Reporter, Lindsey Hilsum saying that the Kurds fought with the British during Second World War to prevent a Nazi coup in Iraq.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    So it looks as if Trump and Putin support Turkeys move to ethnic cleanse the Kurds,
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798
    Byronic said:

    Question: how many people on here want Boris to fail?

    I’m guessing hardcore Corbynites, who don’t care about Brexit. Any others? Any ultra Remainers who still prefer Remain, even at the risk of No Deal? Or maybe some BXPers?

    I do.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    I have visions of Newsnight hastily rehashing the show to cover toasters and vacuum cleaners in place of Brexit and Kurdistan.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Byronic said:

    FF43 said:

    Byronic said:

    Question: how many people on here want Boris to fail?

    I’m guessing hardcore Corbynites, who don’t care about Brexit. Any others? Any ultra Remainers who still prefer Remain, even at the risk of No Deal? Or maybe some BXPers?

    I am confident Johnson will fail. Which, I accept, is an answer to a different question
    Yes, it is. So try again.
    Why is it my job to deal with Johnson's failure ? Johnson can accept the Vassal State and move on. That's damage limitation. It recognises that if there are no good Brexit outcomes ( there aren't), we can at least minimise the failure. Direct your question at Johnson, I think.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    Peston seems to think it's all a Boris/Cummings ruse to play for time (but why Leo would play along is anyone's guess)

    https://www.itv.com/news/2019-10-10/robert-peston-has-dublin-rescued-boris-johnson/
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    FF43 said:

    Byronic said:

    FF43 said:

    Byronic said:

    Question: how many people on here want Boris to fail?

    I’m guessing hardcore Corbynites, who don’t care about Brexit. Any others? Any ultra Remainers who still prefer Remain, even at the risk of No Deal? Or maybe some BXPers?

    I am confident Johnson will fail. Which, I accept, is an answer to a different question
    Yes, it is. So try again.
    Why is it my job to deal with Johnson's failure ? Johnson can accept the Vassal State and move on. That's damage limitation. It recognises that if there are no good Brexit outcomes ( there aren't), we can at least minimise the failure. Direct your question at Johnson, I think.
    Lol. I’m taking that as very very very very VERY begrudging support for a Boris deal.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    edited October 2019
    Byronic said:


    To me this seems deeply irresponsible. If Boris doesn’t pass a deal we are headed for years, maybe decades of new sectarian politics, envenomed by nationalism, and possibly violent.

    The ultra Remainers are as blameworthy as the ultra Leavers.

    If Boris fails, we extend. We may even have an election.

    The threats of violence are no reason to buckle under, but it seems to be standard fare that when Leave is threatened we are told there will be violence.

    So fine - go ahead and riot. The forces of law & order will arrest the rioters and bang them in jail or fine them. That is why we have cops.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Byronic said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    Question: how many people on here want Boris to fail?

    I’m guessing hardcore Corbynites, who don’t care about Brexit. Any others? Any ultra Remainers who still prefer Remain, even at the risk of No Deal? Or maybe some BXPers?

    I will laugh my head off if Boris Johnson fails spectacularly and looks a fool, unless it means that Nazi apologist Corbyn gets in in which case I shall despair.
    Not quite an answer. Do you WANT him to fail?
    Yes, because what he's trying to do at this moment is irresponsible, dangerous and will at best be highly divisive and damaging if he succeeds.

    But I don't want a government led by monsters like Corbyn and Macdonnell to be the price of that failure.
    Still not an answer. Yes or no.
    Yes, because what he's trying to do at this moment is irresponsible, dangerous and will at best be highly divisive and damaging if he succeeds.

    Which part of 'yes' did you not get?
    The bit where you heavily qualified it with “but, Corbyn”

    Your position is insane. You would imperil the country because of your extreme Remainerism.
    Er - right.

    Just to point out even though I voted Remain I consistently supported May's Deal and Remain a trenchant critic of the EU and its structures.

    And got further point out what Johnson and that addled pseudo-intellectual moron, liar, forger, cheat and failure Cummings are trying to do is leave with no deal. They say otherwise but I would more readily believe Vladimir Putin than Cummings.

    Which is not merely madness, but positively nihilistic.

    So yes, I hope they fail in that.

    But equally, Corbyn would be worse than no deal.

    I think you've had one too many tonight.
    Um, ok.

    Try and address the premise that Boris wants a deal, and is aiming to pass a deal. Would you support his efforts?
    Yes. But such a scenario is false. He is not going to get a better deal than the one Theresa May did for various reasons (nor would Corbyn, by the by) and he isn't even trying. All he is doing is posturing so he can force a rupture that he can blame on somebody else. And he's not even doing it effectively.

    Not that I would normally quote this extremely unpleasant human being, but I don't call that statesmanship, I call it an emotional spasm.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    GIN1138 said:

    Peston seems to think it's all a Boris/Cummings ruse to play for time (but why Leo would play along is anyone's guess)

    https://www.itv.com/news/2019-10-10/robert-peston-has-dublin-rescued-boris-johnson/

    Peston.

    Journalists without Brexit will be like junkies without their smack.

  • Just completed You Gov on best pm, effect of Benn bill, proroguing Parliament and trust in judges. Results will be very interesting
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Byronic said:

    FF43 said:

    Byronic said:

    FF43 said:

    Byronic said:

    Question: how many people on here want Boris to fail?

    I’m guessing hardcore Corbynites, who don’t care about Brexit. Any others? Any ultra Remainers who still prefer Remain, even at the risk of No Deal? Or maybe some BXPers?

    I am confident Johnson will fail. Which, I accept, is an answer to a different question
    Yes, it is. So try again.
    Why is it my job to deal with Johnson's failure ? Johnson can accept the Vassal State and move on. That's damage limitation. It recognises that if there are no good Brexit outcomes ( there aren't), we can at least minimise the failure. Direct your question at Johnson, I think.
    Lol. I’m taking that as very very very very VERY begrudging support for a Boris deal.
    It's a very very very very VERY begrudging support for a May deal. May at least was serious.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    edited October 2019

    I have visions of Newsnight hastily rehashing the show to cover toasters and vacuum cleaners in place of Brexit and Kurdistan.

    Are you saying that Newsnight sources PB for its output? Is OGH aware he is due royalties? Or at least a licensing fee?
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    edited October 2019

    Byronic said:


    To me this seems deeply irresponsible. If Boris doesn’t pass a deal we are headed for years, maybe decades of new sectarian politics, envenomed by nationalism, and possibly violent.

    The ultra Remainers are as blameworthy as the ultra Leavers.

    If Boris fails, we extend. We may even have an election.

    The threats of violence are no reason to buckle under, but it seems to be standard fare that when Leave is threatened we are told there will be violence.

    So fine - go ahead and riot. The forces of law & order will arrest the rioters and bang them in jail or fine them. That is why we have cops.
    You seem to think you can reverse the vote and all will be well. Madness.

    As for ‘threatening violence’ the entire Remain campaign, for about 2 years now, has been trading on the threat of renewed violence in Ulster, so PFFF
  • Look, none of us knows what is goingon, what will happen and who will "win" on Brexit.

    just leave it at that :)
  • FlannerFlanner Posts: 437

    Byronic said:

    Question: how many people on here want Boris to fail?

    I’m guessing hardcore Corbynites, who don’t care about Brexit. Any others? Any ultra Remainers who still prefer Remain, even at the risk of No Deal? Or maybe some BXPers?

    I do.
    Me too
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:


    To me this seems deeply irresponsible. If Boris doesn’t pass a deal we are headed for years, maybe decades of new sectarian politics, envenomed by nationalism, and possibly violent.

    The ultra Remainers are as blameworthy as the ultra Leavers.

    If Boris fails, we extend. We may even have an election.

    The threats of violence are no reason to buckle under, but it seems to be standard fare that when Leave is threatened we are told there will be violence.

    So fine - go ahead and riot. The forces of law & order will arrest the rioters and bang them in jail or fine them. That is why we have cops.
    You seem to think you can reverse the vote and all will be well. Madness.

    As for ‘threatening violence’ the entire Remain campaign, for about 2 years now, has been trading on the threat of renewed violence in Ulster, so PFFF
    Well the euphemism of “direct action” is much better from their perspective.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Conclusion?

    A fair number of Pb-ers are willing to risk no deal, or civil strife, such is their dislike of Boris or Brexit or both. Surprising and a bit depressing.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Byronic said:

    Conclusion?

    A fair number of Pb-ers are willing to risk no deal, or civil strife, such is their dislike of Boris or Brexit or both. Surprising and a bit depressing.

    Boris Johnson is the one risking no deal. That's why I want him to fail.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    edited October 2019
    Byronic said:

    Conclusion?

    A fair number of Pb-ers are willing to risk no deal, or civil strife, such is their dislike of Boris or Brexit or both. Surprising and a bit depressing.

    And the irony of this resulting in the added joy of a particularly nasty cabal of communists seizing control.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,060
    ydoethur said:

    Quincel said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Meanwhile Hillary Clinton was last traded at 14.5 for the Democratic nomination.

    That's the smart money going on her, right?
    Now been matched at 11.5!

    Imagine if she was the Dem nominee in 2020 but didn't face Trump. Now that would be bizarre.

    Strongly suspect (and deep bets on) the opposite happening though. No Hillary, but Trump as nominee.
    She can't beat Obama.

    She can't beat Trump.

    Who can she actually beat?
    Well she did win the popular vote once. Maybe she could do it again? (The Electoral College is another matter of course)
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:


    To me this seems deeply irresponsible. If Boris doesn’t pass a deal we are headed for years, maybe decades of new sectarian politics, envenomed by nationalism, and possibly violent.

    The ultra Remainers are as blameworthy as the ultra Leavers.

    If Boris fails, we extend. We may even have an election.

    The threats of violence are no reason to buckle under, but it seems to be standard fare that when Leave is threatened we are told there will be violence.

    So fine - go ahead and riot. The forces of law & order will arrest the rioters and bang them in jail or fine them. That is why we have cops.
    You seem to think you can reverse the vote and all will be well. Madness.

    As for ‘threatening violence’ the entire Remain campaign, for about 2 years now, has been trading on the threat of renewed violence in Ulster, so PFFF
    The Remain campaign has been about STOPPING the return of violence, not threatening it unless they get their way.

    As for reversing the vote, I never said that. I did say I would be happy to see Brexit fail but that could mean anything, just like Brexit. It could be Remain, it could be EEA or it could be No Deal. (Many leavers seem to regard EEA as a failure).

    I am not the one who keeps posting up "Brexit or the streets will burn".
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291
    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    Question: how many people on here want Boris to fail?

    I’m guessing hardcore Corbynites, who don’t care about Brexit. Any others? Any ultra Remainers who still prefer Remain, even at the risk of No Deal? Or maybe some BXPers?

    I will laugh my head off if Boris Johnson fails spectacularly and looks a fool, unless it means that Nazi apologist Corbyn gets in in which case I shall despair.
    Not quite an answer. Do you WANT him to fail?
    Yes, because what he's trying to do at this moment is irresponsible, dangerous and will at best be highly divisive and damaging if he succeeds.

    But I don't want a government led by monsters like Corbyn and Macdonnell to be the price of that failure.
    Still not an answer. Yes or no.
    Yes, because what he's trying to do at this moment is irresponsible, dangerous and will at best be highly divisive and damaging if he succeeds.

    Which part of 'yes' did you not get?
    The bit where you heavily qualified it with “but, Corbyn”

    Your position is insane. You would imperil the country because of your extreme Remainerism.
    Er - right.

    Just to point out even though I voted Remain I consistently supported May's Deal and Remain a trenchant critic of the EU and its structures.

    And got further point out what Johnson and that addled pseudo-intellectual moron, liar, forger, cheat and failure Cummings are trying to do is leave with no deal. They say otherwise but I would more readily believe Vladimir Putin than Cummings.

    Which is not merely madness, but positively nihilistic.

    So yes, I hope they fail in that.

    But equally, Corbyn would be worse than no deal.

    I think you've had one too many tonight.
    Um, ok.

    Try and address the premise that Boris wants a deal, and is aiming to pass a deal. Would you support his efforts?
    Yes. But such a scenario is false. He is not going to get a better deal than the one Theresa May did for various reasons (nor would Corbyn, by the by) and he isn't even trying. All he is doing is posturing so he can force a rupture that he can blame on somebody else. And he's not even doing it effectively.

    Not that I would normally quote this extremely unpleasant human being, but I don't call that statesmanship, I call it an emotional spasm.
    What’s poor Nye done to have caused such loathing?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    FF43 said:

    Byronic said:

    FF43 said:

    Byronic said:

    FF43 said:

    Byronic said:

    Question: how many people on here want Boris to fail?

    I’m guessing hardcore Corbynites, who don’t care about Brexit. Any others? Any ultra Remainers who still prefer Remain, even at the risk of No Deal? Or maybe some BXPers?

    I am confident Johnson will fail. Which, I accept, is an answer to a different question
    Yes, it is. So try again.
    Why is it my job to deal with Johnson's failure ? Johnson can accept the Vassal State and move on. That's damage limitation. It recognises that if there are no good Brexit outcomes ( there aren't), we can at least minimise the failure. Direct your question at Johnson, I think.
    Lol. I’m taking that as very very very very VERY begrudging support for a Boris deal.
    It's a very very very very VERY begrudging support for a May deal. May at least was serious.
    And had principles
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    CatMan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Quincel said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Meanwhile Hillary Clinton was last traded at 14.5 for the Democratic nomination.

    That's the smart money going on her, right?
    Now been matched at 11.5!

    Imagine if she was the Dem nominee in 2020 but didn't face Trump. Now that would be bizarre.

    Strongly suspect (and deep bets on) the opposite happening though. No Hillary, but Trump as nominee.
    She can't beat Obama.

    She can't beat Trump.

    Who can she actually beat?
    Well she did win the popular vote once. Maybe she could do it again? (The Electoral College is another matter of course)
    Khrushchev and Nixon race round the Kremlin in 1959. Nixon wins easily.

    Pravda headline:

    'Comrade Khrushchev honarable second in race. Capitalist pig Nixon next to last.'

    That's about useful her 'win' in the popular vote was.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Do journalists have to fill the information vacuum with clueless nonsense .

    No one knows what if any compromises were made today .
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited October 2019

    Look, none of us knows what is goingon, what will happen and who will "win" on Brexit.

    just leave it at that :)

    If PB wasn't allowed to comment on known unknowns and unknown unknowns as though we were all experts they'd only be about 10 posts on here every day! :D
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    I love these false dawns.
    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    I really wish these so called sources would STFU and stop trying to crash the negotiations .

    Both sides need to compromise , and I’m sure that’s what will happen to get a deal.

    It doesn’t do any good for these apparent capitulation comments to be peddled .

    Let’s wait and see what any deal looks like .

    Good advice indeed
    Thanks . The media in general seem determined to crash the negotiations. Don’t get me wrong I’m very sad about the UK leaving but I’m much more worried about a no deal .

    Some seem willing to risk everything to get their perfect outcome , I’m just not willing to risk a no deal in the faint hope of getting another EU vote .

    The WA isn’t just about the three issues we keep hearing about , it covers a huge range of other important issues .

    There’s a reason it took so long to negotiate . I will be absolutely disgusted with MPs if they vote down any new deal .

    If it’s good enough for the UK , the EU and Ireland then that’s it . The opposition then need to try and win the argument over our future relationship.

    I’ll of course be happy to vote for the party that promises the closest EU relationship but not rejoining .

    If only our political leaders were willing to take as considered a view about things.
    So he believes Varadkar is stupid then?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    That shows very well why he is not worried and nor are his base, even though they should be.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    kle4 said:

    I love these false dawns.

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    I really wish these so called sources would STFU and stop trying to crash the negotiations .

    Both sides need to compromise , and I’m sure that’s what will happen to get a deal.

    It doesn’t do any good for these apparent capitulation comments to be peddled .

    Let’s wait and see what any deal looks like .

    Good advice indeed
    Thanks . The media in general seem determined to crash the negotiations. Don’t get me wrong I’m very sad about the UK leaving but I’m much more worried about a no deal .

    Some seem willing to risk everything to get their perfect outcome , I’m just not willing to risk a no deal in the faint hope of getting another EU vote .

    The WA isn’t just about the three issues we keep hearing about , it covers a huge range of other important issues .

    There’s a reason it took so long to negotiate . I will be absolutely disgusted with MPs if they vote down any new deal .

    If it’s good enough for the UK , the EU and Ireland then that’s it . The opposition then need to try and win the argument over our future relationship.

    I’ll of course be happy to vote for the party that promises the closest EU relationship but not rejoining .

    If only our political leaders were willing to take as considered a view about things.
    So he believes Varadkar is stupid then?
    It’s quite possible Peston AND Varadkar are largely correct

    ie there’s been a breakthrough, AND Boris is happy for this to be emphasized, as the timing is perfect for him. Indeed my guess is exactly that.

    Ok, time for wine. Later.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    GIN1138 said:

    Peston seems to think it's all a Boris/Cummings ruse to play for time (but why Leo would play along is anyone's guess)

    https://www.itv.com/news/2019-10-10/robert-peston-has-dublin-rescued-boris-johnson/

    Peston.

    Journalists without Brexit will be like junkies without their smack.


    Well they will have to learn a new set of circumstances but they shouldn’t have to look too far with problems with homeless people, universal credit failures, EU citizens being deported, UK citizens being repatriated, the NHS struggling to cope, Ex MEPs now making fortunes from the new northern Singapore and of course Colleen’s latest spat, who is shagging who on strictly and such other critical issues to uk hegemony. Although if we survive the shortage of bog rolls I’ll be surprised.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    justin124 said:

    If ERG MPs - and the DUP - end up accepting a Deal which they rejected when put forward by Theresa May, they will surely seem hypocritical and ridiculous. They would have to explain why they have put the country through such agony for no material gain

    They would not have to explain it, although a failure to do so might look stupid. If there is very little difference their hatred of May and lionisation of Boris will be very annoying, but fair play to him for getting something through, even if part of that would be the changed situation.
  • nichomar said:

    So it looks as if Trump and Putin support Turkeys move to ethnic cleanse the Kurds,

    I think talk of "ethnically cleansing the Kurds" is taking it a step too far.
    He clearly feels the urge to consolidate his grasp on the Kurdish dominated provinces and the Kurdish population dispersed all over his country (>15%)
    He won't seek to extinguish all Kurds in the North-East of Syria, but, admittedly, also won't shed a single tear over any Kurdish casualties, whether in Turkey, Syria, Iraq, or Lebanon.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    I like doing the ironing. It’s the one thing in the week which starts in disorder and ends tangibly in order.

    Not the way I do it.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,616
    The lack of any word from Boris suggests to me he is having to try and extract an unpalatable concession from the DUP. But if they give it, he will have forged a deal with Varadker.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    Anorak said:

    Still not a peep from Leave.EU or Arron Banks or The Brexit Party or Farage. Most odd.

    Is there anything for them to comment on? No one seems to know anything about what is being agreed.
    Not that it stopped them on May's Deal.
  • Byronic said:

    kle4 said:

    I love these false dawns.

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    I really wish these so called sources would STFU and stop trying to crash the negotiations .

    Both sides need to compromise , and I’m sure that’s what will happen to get a deal.

    It doesn’t do any good for these apparent capitulation comments to be peddled .

    Let’s wait and see what any deal looks like .

    Good advice indeed
    Thanks . The media in general seem determined to crash the negotiations. Don’t get me wrong I’m very sad about the UK leaving but I’m much more worried about a no deal .

    Some seem willing to risk everything to get their perfect outcome , I’m just not willing to risk a no deal in the faint hope of getting another EU vote .

    The WA isn’t just about the three issues we keep hearing about , it covers a huge range of other important issues .

    There’s a reason it took so long to negotiate . I will be absolutely disgusted with MPs if they vote down any new deal .

    If it’s good enough for the UK , the EU and Ireland then that’s it . The opposition then need to try and win the argument over our future relationship.

    I’ll of course be happy to vote for the party that promises the closest EU relationship but not rejoining .

    If only our political leaders were willing to take as considered a view about things.
    So he believes Varadkar is stupid then?
    It’s quite possible Peston AND Varadkar are largely correct

    ie there’s been a breakthrough, AND Boris is happy for this to be emphasized, as the timing is perfect for him. Indeed my guess is exactly that.

    Ok, time for wine. Later.
    Later, Sean :)
  • Henry_CHenry_C Posts: 73
    edited October 2019
    Byronic said:

    Trump sees himself, in the low watt space that is his brain, as the great deal maker. He wrote the book about it. The art of the deal.

    He makes clear in that book that for him the only "great deal" is one where he nails the other party to the floor.

    Meanwhile, Brexit before the end of the year can be backed at 2.66!
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    Boris cares about one thing. Is it possible that the power of his self-love, the desire to save his own skin, is enough to crack Brexit? It’s just about believable.

  • kle4 said:

    That shows very well why he is not worried and nor are his base, even though they should be.
    Naught but reactionary, bourgeois philosophy!
  • ydoethur said:

    CatMan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Quincel said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Meanwhile Hillary Clinton was last traded at 14.5 for the Democratic nomination.

    That's the smart money going on her, right?
    Now been matched at 11.5!

    Imagine if she was the Dem nominee in 2020 but didn't face Trump. Now that would be bizarre.

    Strongly suspect (and deep bets on) the opposite happening though. No Hillary, but Trump as nominee.
    She can't beat Obama.

    She can't beat Trump.

    Who can she actually beat?
    Well she did win the popular vote once. Maybe she could do it again? (The Electoral College is another matter of course)
    Khrushchev and Nixon race round the Kremlin in 1959. Nixon wins easily.

    Pravda headline:

    'Comrade Khrushchev honarable second in race. Capitalist pig Nixon next to last.'

    That's about useful her 'win' in the popular vote was.
    I said earlier today: More Americans voted for Hillary than for the Racist-in-Chief!
  • Byronic said:

    Byronic said:


    To me this seems deeply irresponsible. If Boris doesn’t pass a deal we are headed for years, maybe decades of new sectarian politics, envenomed by nationalism, and possibly violent.

    The ultra Remainers are as blameworthy as the ultra Leavers.

    If Boris fails, we extend. We may even have an election.

    The threats of violence are no reason to buckle under, but it seems to be standard fare that when Leave is threatened we are told there will be violence.

    So fine - go ahead and riot. The forces of law & order will arrest the rioters and bang them in jail or fine them. That is why we have cops.
    You seem to think you can reverse the vote and all will be well. Madness.

    As for ‘threatening violence’ the entire Remain campaign, for about 2 years now, has been trading on the threat of renewed violence in Ulster, so PFFF
    The Remain campaign has been about STOPPING the return of violence, not threatening it unless they get their way.

    As for reversing the vote, I never said that. I did say I would be happy to see Brexit fail but that could mean anything, just like Brexit. It could be Remain, it could be EEA or it could be No Deal. (Many leavers seem to regard EEA as a failure).

    I am not the one who keeps posting up "Brexit or the streets will burn".
    The Remain campaign has been all about playing up the threat of violence in N.Ireland to achieve their own ends.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,780
    kle4 said:

    That shows very well why he is not worried and nor are his base, even though they should be.
    I think it clearly shows that the School system is working well under the Tories.

    By definition Corbyn should be approved of by 0% - so it's a trick question.

    The cascading into reality of those previously numb minds is a triumph!

    (Tongue in cheek obviously. Apart from the "should be approved of by 0%" bit which is axiomatic)
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    rcs1000 said:

    Byronic said:

    On topic, Donald Trump is alienating part of his coalition over Syria. He needs it to hold firm to stay safe.

    Trump has even lost the evangelicals - because they are loyal to the Syrian Christians now being attacked by the Islamist Turk.

    This repulsive betrayal corrodes Trump’s base in a very unique way. It could finish him. Let’s hope so.
    Backing Erdogan over our allies the Kurds was an extraordinary decision, seeming lacking any kind of understanding of the consequences.

    My gut is that Trump doesn't really care about the Kurds, and someone he respects (Erdogan) asked him for a personal favour, and Trump likes giving personal favours and people being obligated to him, so he went for it.

    As in, in a phone call, he said "yeah, go for it".

    Which is why, of course, Presidents and the like have advisors.
    Bolton would definitely have blocked this or made Trump reverse ferret immediately.
  • Byronic said:

    kle4 said:

    I love these false dawns.

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    I really wish these so called sources would STFU and stop trying to crash the negotiations .

    Both sides need to compromise , and I’m sure that’s what will happen to get a deal.

    It doesn’t do any good for these apparent capitulation comments to be peddled .

    Let’s wait and see what any deal looks like .

    Good advice indeed
    Thanks . The media in general seem determined to crash the negotiations. Don’t get me wrong I’m very sad about the UK leaving but I’m much more worried about a no deal .

    Some seem willing to risk everything to get their perfect outcome , I’m just not willing to risk a no deal in the faint hope of getting another EU vote .

    The WA isn’t just about the three issues we keep hearing about , it covers a huge range of other important issues .

    There’s a reason it took so long to negotiate . I will be absolutely disgusted with MPs if they vote down any new deal .

    If it’s good enough for the UK , the EU and Ireland then that’s it . The opposition then need to try and win the argument over our future relationship.

    I’ll of course be happy to vote for the party that promises the closest EU relationship but not rejoining .

    If only our political leaders were willing to take as considered a view about things.
    So he believes Varadkar is stupid then?
    It’s quite possible Peston AND Varadkar are largely correct

    ie there’s been a breakthrough, AND Boris is happy for this to be emphasized, as the timing is perfect for him. Indeed my guess is exactly that.

    Ok, time for wine. Later.
    I largely agree with the gist of your comment. I'm not entirely clear whether the timing is perfect, but I think it's necessary for his electoral prospect to evoke the image of having authoritatively induced a solution.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    How many on PB use cocaine or know someone that does?
  • Byronic said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    Question: how many people on here want Boris to fail?

    I’m guessing hardcore Corbynites, who don’t care about Brexit. Any others? Any ultra Remainers who still prefer Remain, even at the risk of No Deal? Or maybe some BXPers?

    I will laugh my head off if Boris Johnson fails spectacularly and looks a fool, unless it means that Nazi apologist Corbyn gets in in which case I shall despair.
    Not quite an answer. Do you WANT him to fail?
    Yes, because what he's trying to do at this moment is irresponsible, dangerous and will at best be highly divisive and damaging if he succeeds.

    But I don't want a government led by monsters like Corbyn and Macdonnell to be the price of that failure.
    Still not an answer. Yes or no.
    Yes, because what he's trying to do at this moment is irresponsible, dangerous and will at best be highly divisive and damaging if he succeeds.

    Which part of 'yes' did you not get?
    The bit where you heavily qualified it with “but, Corbyn”

    Your position is insane. You would imperil the country because of your extreme Remainerism.
    In this case it not extreme Remainerism. It is a completely irrational hatred of Cummings. ydoethur would rather see the whole world burn than have Cummings actually achieve anything.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Byronic said:

    Question: how many people on here want Boris to fail?

    I’m guessing hardcore Corbynites, who don’t care about Brexit. Any others? Any ultra Remainers who still prefer Remain, even at the risk of No Deal? Or maybe some BXPers?

    I want Johnson to fail because I loathe him as an individual, but I'd be relieved to see this stage of Brexit resolved in a reasonable and orderly way.
  • nichomar said:

    How many on PB use cocaine or know someone that does?

    Outside of TV I have never actually aeen anyone use Cocaine. Which is kind of strange as I know a fair few people who use heroine in various ways and plenty who use Canabis in one form or another
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    nichomar said:

    How many on PB use cocaine or know someone that does?

    I'm sure Byronic can tell you...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Byronic said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    Question: how many people on here want Boris to fail?

    I’m guessing hardcore Corbynites, who don’t care about Brexit. Any others? Any ultra Remainers who still prefer Remain, even at the risk of No Deal? Or maybe some BXPers?

    I will laugh my head off if Boris Johnson fails spectacularly and looks a fool, unless it means that Nazi apologist Corbyn gets in in which case I shall despair.
    Not quite an answer. Do you WANT him to fail?
    Yes, because what he's trying to do at this moment is irresponsible, dangerous and will at best be highly divisive and damaging if he succeeds.

    But I don't want a government led by monsters like Corbyn and Macdonnell to be the price of that failure.
    Still not an answer. Yes or no.
    Yes, because what he's trying to do at this moment is irresponsible, dangerous and will at best be highly divisive and damaging if he succeeds.

    Which part of 'yes' did you not get?
    The bit where you heavily qualified it with “but, Corbyn”

    Your position is insane. You would imperil the country because of your extreme Remainerism.
    In this case it not extreme Remainerism. It is a completely irrational hatred of Cummings. ydoethur would rather see the whole world burn than have Cummings actually achieve anything.
    I'd love for him to achieve something. It's rather sad that his life has been a total and utter failure and everything he's touched has been a disaster.

    Unfortunately it's a function of his weak character, stupidity and incompetence, so it seems unlikely he will achieve anything.
This discussion has been closed.